Hibs income

[Lago]

Ok this has been bothering me since I saw the comment about McGeogh going to the Dons because they can pay more. Also their income stream & Hearts exceeded that of Hibs & would continue to so.
If this the case, how is that, and what can Hibs do to redress the situation?

[ancient hibee]

Need to attract a sugar daddy or mummy.

[Sammy7nil]

HSL Hearts fans plough thousands in to their club. We had a chance to make a hole in their donations but we lost the cup game. Had they lost I think there would have been a reaction.

[Brooster]

I think Hibs need to up their game on the donation front. We are missing a trick here which could ultimately see us fall behind.

[The_Horde]

HSL Hearts fans plough thousands in to their club. We had a chance to make a hole in their donations but we lost the cup game. Had they lost I think there would have been a reaction.

Nowt to do with the hsl and everything to do with them selling isma, walker etc and using the money for expensive loans

[Firestarter]

I think Hibs need to up their game on the donation front. We are missing a trick here which could ultimately see us fall behind.

Not could Brooster, will big time.

[Firestarter]

Nowt to do with the hsl and everything to do with them selling isma, walker etc and using the money for expensive loans

It will certainly be in the future and again they are spending more than us.

[Ken]

If a high percentage of Hearts fans are happy to spend £100-£200 on top of their season ticket cost then good for them. Once the club has been bought from Budge I can’t see that continuing.

Moral of the story is they ‘have’ to do it just now. We don’t


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[Tyler Durden]

Ok this has been bothering me since I saw the comment about McGeogh going to the Dons because they can pay more. Also their income stream & Hearts exceeded that of Hibs & would continue to so.
If this the case, how is that, and what can Hibs do to redress the situation?

Hibs can

* Qualify for Europe regularly, ideally getting through a few rounds
* Profit from player trading regularly
* Maximise corporate revenues and matchday sales
* Use the stadium to earn money during non match days

Point 1 is difficult but can be done. The other 3 we're doing quite an effective job IMO, albeit recent recruitment leaves a lot to be desired.

[Callyballybe]

If a high percentage of Hearts fans are happy to spend £100-£200 on top of their season ticket cost then good for them. Once the club has been bought from Budge I can’t see that continuing.

Moral of the story is they ‘have’ to do it just now. We don’t


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I actually disagree. Although some will undoubtedly tail off, I actually think quite a few are planning on continuing the direct debits 'ad infinitum'. I work beside a few of them and they all have said they don't even notice it going out of their account now. I realise not everyone has that luxury of being able to spare £50 a month or whatever it is they're spending. But the impression I certainly get is that this is going to become a part of the norm for them now.

[Bostonhibby]

FOH money eventually has to pay off all the debt to the good doctor and buy all the shares in their club so they can finally achieve their much heralded version of fan ownership.

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[Brooster]

If a high percentage of Hearts fans are happy to spend £100-£200 on top of their season ticket cost then good for them. Once the club has been bought from Budge I can’t see that continuing.

Moral of the story is they ‘have’ to do it just now. We don’t


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And thats exactly the attitude that will see us fall behind.

[matty_f]

There's nothing to suggest that the FoH donations will dry up once they get fan ownership.

Many thought that once they were safe, the findings would stop, or when they were crap - but they're still donating.

The reality is that from a position where things were pretty even financially between us and them, it will be the fans through FoH that will prove to be the differentiator between us and them.

They'll spend more and probably do better than we do as a result. Our only hope of stopping that is to bring more money into Hibs.

[Mikey]

And thats exactly the attitude that will see us fall behind.

Definitely :agree:

[Pretty Boy]

I’d wager most contributors to FOH barely even remember they are paying it now. £10 or £20 or whatever will come out their account by direct debit once a month and they will be so used to it now it won’t even be thought about. It’s wishful thinking with little evidence to back it up to say donations will be drying up anytime soon.

Due to the circumstances in which it came about FOH had a huge uptake and the positivity that followed with the club being saved and then a quick promotion secured the foundations (no pun intended) so that even through a couple of rough years contributions have held up better than many wanted to believe. For various reasons Hibs attempts at a similar scheme and a couple of share issues haven’t got over the initial obstacle of getting those who can afford it to start contributing.

I’ve no idea what the answer is but for all the talk about what Hearts have to pay for and who they have to pay there can be little doubt the FOH money is helping.

[BSEJVT]

And thats exactly the attitude that will see us fall behind.

100% correct

The comfort blanket before was "so what they haven't beaten us in ages and are a shambles"

One defeat for us doesn't prove that they are getting their act together, but even they will eventually stumble on some way to make their massively greater income from fan donations work.

Its more than 10 times ours.

We have simply got to do something about it.

If they all chuck it so can we, but until they do ...........

[Michael]

I still can't see the Dons offering more than us for one of our key players. They're not Celtic or Rangers.

[Peevemor]

It shows how much football in Scotland has been screwed up by inflated wages in England and elsewhere.

Rangers overspending and subsequent bankruptcy has left Celtic with a monopoly on the decent European earnings. Rangers are a financial basket case. Aberdeen have benevolent investors ploughing in money to half keep them in the hunt and Hearts are dependent on Budge's post office savings book, mysterious donators and FOH to cling on to the chasing pack.

Hibs in the meantime, despite having a completed infrastructure, debt at it's lowest in 20+ years, (modern) record attendances, record ST numbers and HSL financial input still struggle to hold on to any above average players and struggle to get quality in.

Thus we're now discussing the question of fans dipping even further into their pockets - this on top of supporters' "football spend" having rocketed in relative terms over the past couple of decades.

You have to wonder where it's going to end.

[3pm]

I think Hibs need to up their game on the donation front. We are missing a trick here which could ultimately see us fall behind.

HSL needs a revamp. Contributions won’t increase greatly until then IMO.

[ancient hibee]

And yet Hearts income has exceeded ours for three years but we are the club that won the cup and sit above them in the league.Are any of their current squad considerably better than ours?

[Forza Fred]

HSL needs a revamp. Contributions won’t increase greatly until then IMO.

The launch of HSL came across to me.....who admittedly is a long way away from the action.....as, well if not shambolic, but confused.

No doubt it was all explained in great detail at meetings etc, but to me it was something that was almost akin to political infighting at the time.

Me thinks the relaunch of a New HSL might not be a bad thing.

[green&left]

I think Hibs need to up their game on the donation front. We are missing a trick here which could ultimately see us fall behind.

How much do Aberdeen fans donate on a monthly basis? I reckon sweet f*** all. With the huns and hertz out the way they capitalised on it. Cemented themselves in 2nd place, picked up silverware and made a good few quid in Europa which in turn saw revenue and income rise. We on the other hand, due to employing a complete diddy managed to join Hearts and Rangers in the lower leagues for 3 seasons which in turn saw our revenue plummet. That's why there's a difference between us and Aberdeen currently (Well that and the fact they got lucky and have a few millionaires up there who donated vast sums of money to them - if only we had someone like that kicking about :rolleyes: )

If HSL had a plan and marketing campaign other than Charlie Reid saying he wants to raise quarter of a million we might get nearer to FoH donations.

[jgl07]

If a high percentage of Hearts fans are happy to spend £100-£200 on top of their season ticket cost then good for them. Once the club has been bought from Budge I can’t see that continuing.

Moral of the story is they ‘have’ to do it just now. We don’t

You didn't mention the cake bakes.

I will be surprised if Hearts and Aberdeen can continue to outspend Hibs on wages long-term. Hibs have no need to spend significant sums on stadium development while both Hearts and Aberdeen both do.

Hibs are attracting better crowds at Easter Road than Hearts are at Tynecastle and way more than Aberdeen.

[Lago]

So what have I learn to date,
Well the Don's appear to have tapped into a source of income from benevolent individuals.
Hearts have thousands of fans contributing regularly to the club.
Hibs have an up to date stadium, paid for, a state of the art training complex, paid for, but seem to be on a course that will result in them slowly falling further behind comparable clubs and I still can't quite understand why because many times I hear Hibs making statements about how financially secure the club is. Who speaks the truth?

[Firestarter]

If a high percentage of Hearts fans are happy to spend £100-£200 on top of their season ticket cost then good for them. Once the club has been bought from Budge I can’t see that continuing.

Moral of the story is they ‘have’ to do it just now. We don’t


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Pish. They will own the club and probably fund more.

Always an excuse when it comes to some.

We need a plan to do similar and fast. Hsl need to get the trust of the fans inside and fast.

[HappyAsHellas]

If you can donate a small affordable amount each month then that's all it takes. As has already been posted, once the donations start coming off on a regular basis you don't even notice or give it a second thought. The fact that all this money goes straight to the manager is fantastic, and unrivalled with any other club's donation schemes as far as I'm aware.
HSL needs a re launch, preferably with LD at the helm and get the message out there - a local TV ad with since 1875 singing "we bought McGinn" and letting off smoke bombs should entice a few through the door as it were. It's all for our benefit - what's not to like?

[Lang Toun hibby]

I actually disagree. Although some will undoubtedly tail off, I actually think quite a few are planning on continuing the direct debits 'ad infinitum'. I work beside a few of them and they all have said they don't even notice it going out of their account now. I realise not everyone has that luxury of being able to spare £50 a month or whatever it is they're spending. But the impression I certainly get is that this is going to become a part of the norm for them now.

Totally agree. I pay to HSL monthly an amount and have no intention of ever not paying it. Those that can afford a monthly amount to Hibs should so.

[SideBurns]

I do find the panic regarding Hearts potential income pretty astonishing. As Mad Vlad discovered to his disillusionment, there is and will always be a limitation to Hearts (and Hibs) ability to achieve much through financial investment (or, ultimately in his case, corruption), as we play in a league where two teams hold an abnormally huge advantage given the relatively small population of the country.

Yes, FoH may put them in front income-wise, but Hibs should always be able to compete with them as long as the fans see a team playing good football in the top half of the league. We are in the same financial ballpark as Hearts & Aberdeen due to the size of our support, and that will only change if we enter another Butcher-style meltdown; given the way the club is run these days, I can't see that happening.

[Gerard]

Totally agree. I pay to HSL monthly an amount and have no intention of ever not paying it. Those that can afford a monthly amount to Hibs should so.

There are many people who give to HSL on a regular basis
The money HSL gives Hibs money to spend on players the club would otherwise not have the funds to attract
HSL IMO gives the club the money it needs to get better players and due to its share holding can in time protect the club from being owned by people who may not have its best interests at heart.
HSL owns approx 13 percent of shares in our club

[andybev1]

surely hibs having, say 500-1000 (or is it more) fans more each hpme game almost makes up for the hearts monthly donations?

EDIT: seemingly wrong with the above (damn)

[JK Rolling]

You didn't mention the cake bakes.

I will be surprised if Hearts and Aberdeen can continue to outspend Hibs on wages long-term. Hibs have no need to spend significant sums on stadium development while both Hearts and Aberdeen both do.

Hibs are attracting better crowds at Easter Road than Hearts are at Tynecastle and way more than Aberdeen.


I think you may be surprised by Hearts and Aberdeen's continued spending, as other have mentioned on this thread Hearts FoH money and Aberdeens rich donators aren't going away anytime soon.

Where are you getting the attendance figures re us having more through the turnstiles than Hearts cause sadly every search I've done shows them with about 1,000 more for each home game?

[andybev1]

I think you may be surprised by Hearts and Aberdeen's continued spending, as other have mentioned on this thread Hearts FoH money and Aberdeens rich donators aren't going away anytime soon.

Where are you getting the attendance figures re us having more through the turnstiles than Hearts cause sadly every search I've done shows them with about 1,000 more for each home game?

every time I have looked this season we had considerably more - maybe I git it wrong. I do not trust their numbers though.




EDIT:
yes you are right, looking at THe official figures but I think they are seriously massaging their figures - you just need to look at the last game where they could not even all of their tickets for a derby.

[houstonhibbee]

Surely a large part of income is from selling players on that have come through the academy. I suspect that hearts certainly have produced a lot more quality players over the past several years than hibs. What great players have we produced and sold for a lot of money since the golden generation 14 years ago?

[houstonhibbee]

every time I have looked this season we had considerably more - maybe I git it wrong. I do not trust their numbers though.




EDIT:
yes you are right, looking at THe official figures but I think they are seriously massaging their figures - you just need to look at the last game where they could not even all of their tickets for a derby.
Is that not just due to the few games at murrayfield?

[Ich liebe Deek]

Surely a large part of income is from selling players on that have come through the academy. I suspect that hearts certainly have produced a lot more quality players over the past several years than hibs. What great players have we produced and sold for a lot of money since the golden generation 14 years ago?

Memory might be failing me here but who are these ‘quality’ players Hearts have produced in the last decade?I can only think of Gordon,Paterson and Berra.FOH is a good income model but it needs to compliment player recruitment and development.If you get 2-3 million for SJM it has more benefit than asking your fans to cough up each month to take 9 no-marks on loan in January or ***** a fortune on Naismith on loan for 6 months.Both clubs are failing to produce players IMO.

[BSEJVT]

[QUOTE=Ich liebe Deek;5293728]If you get 2-3 million for SJM it has more benefit than asking your fans to cough up each month QUOTE]

I cant agree with that statement

The production of a player like SJM and the ability to realise anything like the money quoted for him is such an inexact science that we could go long enough without this happening.

Stevie will be able to tell us but I cant recall the last player we sold for over £1million. Steven Fletcher maybe?

A regular stream of income is far more valuable to the club as it enables them to budget far more effectively and recruit season to season, rather than blowing their beans, most often stupidly, on the proceeds of a windfall transfer.

In these days where Bank's wont touch clubs with a barge pole, I don't see any SPL Board (except Rangers & Hearts) splashing cash they don't have in the hope that the next SJM is waiting in the wings to be discovered and sold.

[green day]

Is that not just due to the few games at murrayfield?

Correct. Hearts average home attendance is currently slightly higher than ours, but every game they play at the new stadium reduces it.

Our average at the end of the season will be comfortably ahead.

[Brooster]

Correct. Hearts average home attendance is currently slightly higher than ours, but every game they play at the new stadium reduces it.

Our average at the end of the season will be comfortably ahead.

All fair and well but it doesnt get away from the fact that their fans are pumping thousands per week in to them whilst ours are not. We could be doing more. I would love to see Hibs driving this forward or at least come out and say its not on the radar.

[green day]

All fair and well but it doesnt get away from the fact that their fans are pumping thousands per week in to them whilst ours are not. We could be doing more. I would love to see Hibs driving this forward or at least come out and say its not on the radar.

Agreed. I was only answering the attendance question. It gets on my thruppenies when some people (not you) moan about signings but when most are clearly not paying into HSL.

It's £10 a month minimum, if we even got 5000 people doing that, who knows where it could lead.

Hoping LD takes this on, it shouldn't be that tricky to contact the entire database and outline how to do it.

[Ich liebe Deek]

[QUOTE=Ich liebe Deek;5293728]If you get 2-3 million for SJM it has more benefit than asking your fans to cough up each month QUOTE]

I cant agree with that statement

The production of a player like SJM and the ability to realise anything like the money quoted for him is such an inexact science that we could go long enough without this happening.

Stevie will be able to tell us but I cant recall the last player we sold for over £1million. Steven Fletcher maybe?

A regular stream of income is far more valuable to the club as it enables them to budget far more effectively and recruit season to season, rather than blowing their beans, most often stupidly, on the proceeds of a windfall transfer.

In these days where Bank's wont touch clubs with a barge pole, I don't see any SPL Board (except Rangers & Hearts) splashing cash they don't have in the hope that the next SJM is waiting in the wings to be discovered and sold.

As I said the 2 need to go hand in hand.SJM is not even a product of our academy.The point is Hearts have raised good money through the FOH but their recruitment is scattergun and their academy is average at best.To say the are producing better players than us is debatable.

[BSEJVT]

Agreed. I was only answering the attendance question. It gets on my thruppenies when some people (not you) moan about signings but when most are clearly not paying into HSL.

It's £10 a month minimum, if we even got 5000 people doing that, who knows where it could lead.

Hoping LD takes this on, it shouldn't be that tricky to contact the entire database and outline how to do it.

LD wont / cant take this on.

I also think there are Data Protection considerations involved.

Its not compatible with her status and she got her fingers well and truly burned over the 100 Loyalty Points fiasco for HSL membership.

Consequently she has taken an arms length approach with HSL and will continue to do so.

If you think about it, she cant be seen to be promoting another organisation which is designed to buy shares in the organisation she is CEO of, it is a conflict of interests.

HSL means different things to different folks, for some it is a way once HSL acquire the shareholding to get a representative on the board, for them the over involvement of Leanne in HSL would pollute that process.

Btw if you speak to HSL, although you need to sign up to £10 per month to kick the thing of (because of the constraints of the computer programme), they will happily reduce it to any level you want

[Bostonhibby]

LD wont / cant take this on.

I also think there are Data Protection considerations involved.

Its not compatible with her status and she got her fingers well and truly burned over the 100 Loyalty Points fiasco for HSL membership.

Consequently she has taken an arms length approach with HSL and will continue to do so.

If you think about it, she cant be seen to be promoting another organisation which is designed to buy shares in the organisation she is CEO of, it is a conflict of interests.

HSL means different things to different folks, for some it is a way once HSL acquire the shareholding to get a representative on the board, for them the over involvement of Leanne in HSL would pollute that process.

Btw if you speak to HSL, although you need to sign up to £10 per month to kick the thing of (because of the constraints of the computer programme), they will happily reduce it to any level you want [emoji106] All good points, especially about those who might want the seat on the board for HSL/a protective block of shares rather than using HSL as a total ownership vehicle.

Once that groups targets reached there'll be some who will not want to buy more shares but may well want to simply pay monthly direct to a fund for players, the method for doing that and research on the appetite for doing it maybe not clear?

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[eaststandJJ]

It'd be great of 5000 people gave £10 a month but Hibs have the fan base to do better. We can get crowds of 13 - 18000 to watch games, and if we win cups 100,000 plus come to the streets. Then there are fans living outside Edinburgh, Scotland and UK too. To compete with Glasgow's teams, with 40,000 -50,000 season tickets a season, plus their own fundraising, we need more from our own fundraising, and appeal to fans that putting money into the club is worthwhile for its longevity and ambitions.

[Not In The Know]

The launch of HSL came across to me.....who admittedly is a long way away from the action.....as, well if not shambolic, but confused.

No doubt it was all explained in great detail at meetings etc, but to me it was something that was almost akin to political infighting at the time.

Me thinks the relaunch of a New HSL might not be a bad thing.


HSL is a shambles with no real marketing behind it or clear message on how it helps HFC.

it needs a total reboot IMHO.

For example I had a direct debit and THEY stopped it. You couldnt make that up.

[marinello59]

It'd be great of 5000 people gave £10 a month but Hibs have the fan base to do better. We can get crowds of 13 - 18000 to watch games, and if we win cups 100,000 plus come to the streets. Then there are fans living outside Edinburgh, Scotland and UK too. To compete with Glasgow's teams, with 40,000 -50,000 season tickets a season, plus their own fundraising, we need more from our own fundraising, and appeal to fans that putting money into the club is worthwhile for its longevity and ambitions.

We have 13000 fans putting money in to the club by buying season tickets during a time of austerity. That's a remarkable figure and it's a sad comment on the way our game has been mismanaged if our club still needs to depend on donations to put a decent team on the park.

[SideBurns]

We have 13000 fans putting money in to the club by buying season tickets during a time of austerity. That's a remarkable figure and it's a sad comment on the way our game has been mismanaged if our club still needs to depend on donations to put a decent team on the park.

Aye - not to mention the 4-5000 regularly paying at the gate. I recall the dark days of the early to mid 80s when crowds of 5000 for run of the mill games weren't unusual (and that included ST holders, and at a time when it was still relatively cheap to go to the fitba). I realise people are constantly comparing us with the Hearts situation, but Hibs fans are backing the club in numbers unprecedented in the modern era.

[Ozyhibby]

We have 13000 fans putting money in to the club by buying season tickets during a time of austerity. That's a remarkable figure and it's a sad comment on the way our game has been mismanaged if our club still needs to depend on donations to put a decent team on the park.

We only need to do it because our competitors are doing it. Football is about competing and if they are raising more money than us then we have to try and match them or just accept that they will be more successful. Success follows money in football.


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[marinello59]

We only need to do it because our competitors are doing it. Football is about competing and if they are raising more money than us then we have to try and match them or just accept that they will be more successful. Success follows money in football.


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Hearts are doing it. Who else is doing it in the top flight? Aberdeen aren't asking the fans for charity.

[Mikey]

LD wont / cant take this on.

I also think there are Data Protection considerations involved.

Its not compatible with her status and she got her fingers well and truly burned over the 100 Loyalty Points fiasco for HSL membership.

Consequently she has taken an arms length approach with HSL and will continue to do so.

If you think about it, she cant be seen to be promoting another organisation which is designed to buy shares in the organisation she is CEO of, it is a conflict of interests.

HSL means different things to different folks, for some it is a way once HSL acquire the shareholding to get a representative on the board, for them the over involvement of Leanne in HSL would pollute that process.

Btw if you speak to HSL, although you need to sign up to £10 per month to kick the thing of (because of the constraints of the computer programme), they will happily reduce it to any level you want

Do you know if there's an HSL relaunch in the offing? It's been talked about for a while but there's been nothing yet.

[Ozyhibby]

Do you know if there's an HSL relaunch in the offing? It's been talked about for a while but there's been nothing yet.

Leeann Dempster said it would happen in early 2018.


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[Hibby soldier]

I think Hibs need to up their game on the donation front. We are missing a trick here which could ultimately see us fall behind.


Enough is given from season tickets, gate money, and pies...

[Mikey]

Enough is given from season tickets, gate money, and pies...

The club never has enough to spend on players. This window shows that.

[green day]

Enough is given from season tickets, gate money, and pies...

You are probably not wrong - but I think one of the points being made here is that if we want to compete at the top end of the table, or for cups, the income you describe puts us in (a fairly distant, financially) 5th place.

If our fans are happy with that, then thats cool - but we all know thats not the case.

While I dont necessarily disagree with you that my ST, occasional hospitality and pies should be enough - its patently clear that it isnt if we want to exceed what Hearts and Aberdeen are doing.

HSL needs a total relaunch - It should be a very, very simple message which they buggered up first time round (aided it has to be said by a few hibs fans who dont like Tom Farmer).

I am not fussed about fan ownership but understand thats important to some - I think they need to focus on the message that every penny you put in goes on the park.

[Ozyhibby]

You are probably not wrong - but I think one of the points being made here is that if we want to compete at the top end of the table, or for cups, the income you describe puts us in (a fairly distant, financially) 5th place.

If our fans are happy with that, then thats cool - but we all know thats not the case.

While I dont necessarily disagree with you that my ST, occasional hospitality and pies should be enough - its patently clear that it isnt if we want to exceed what Hearts and Aberdeen are doing.

HSL needs a total relaunch - It should be a very, very simple message which they buggered up first time round (aided it has to be said by a few hibs fans who dont like Tom Farmer).

I am not fussed about fan ownership but understand thats important to some - I think they need to focus on the message that every penny you put in goes on the park.

[emoji106]


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[The Modfather]

I agree that HSL needs a complete revamp, and we’re not tapping into the extra income we could be getting. However the fans are more than doing their bit in putting money into the club.

It’s then down to the club to demonstrate they can spend the money we are putting in wisely and efficiently, which I think is an area that can also be improved upon. I’d like to see us change our approach, rather than sign experienced free transfers like Stokes, Whittaker & Ambrose and the presumable top end wage and signing on fees that come with them. I’d rather invest the same sums and pay a fee for an up and coming talent. There’s talented youngsters at all levels in Scotland.

[Callyballybe]

You are probably not wrong - but I think one of the points being made here is that if we want to compete at the top end of the table, or for cups, the income you describe puts us in (a fairly distant, financially) 5th place.

If our fans are happy with that, then thats cool - but we all know thats not the case.

While I dont necessarily disagree with you that my ST, occasional hospitality and pies should be enough - its patently clear that it isnt if we want to exceed what Hearts and Aberdeen are doing.

HSL needs a total relaunch - It should be a very, very simple message which they buggered up first time round (aided it has to be said by a few hibs fans who dont like Tom Farmer).

I am not fussed about fan ownership but understand thats important to some - I think they need to focus on the message that every penny you put in goes on the park.

Sums the situation up well. Nobody is claiming that the fans haven't back the team through ST sales, record amount of strips/merchandise being bought, and yes, in an ideal world this SHOULD be enough. But the reality is between the FOH direct debits, and Aberdeen seemingly having a couple of relatively rich board members willing to put more money into the club, if we want to compete and not moan about or club being a distant 5th, HSL needs to have a bigger presence and play a bigger part within the club.

I'm not attacking the current team who administer it - from what I can gather (could be wrong) it's a small group of Hibs fans who have voluntarily given up their time. But as has been said above, it needs a re-launch. Presence outside the stadium, much bigger presence on here and the bounce, fundraising etc. I have no idea how the FOH is set up, but if they have full time 'paid' individuals involved, this maybe something that is worth doing if manageable.

[NAE NOOKIE]

First off, I'm not a huge fan of all the hand wringing over Foundation of Hearts .... Its practically being used as a stick to beat our own support with in a who is more loyal debate.

Like it or not the fact of the matter ( and it is a fact !!! ) is that FOH came about in a set of circumstance which Hibs simply cannot replicate. These circumstances meant that their fans were in a position where they were left in little doubt that they were saving the club by contributing ... the fact that this may have a knock on effect in the future is good news for them there's no doubt. But if we want to get close to parity with them when it comes to fans handing over money every month trying to put our fans on a guilt trip using the example of FOH isn't the way to go about it. IIRC we have already proved that if the chips are truly down our support knows how to step up.

The difference for us was that our nadir came before the age of social media where its easy to communicate to huge groups of people and even more salient before an age where everybody is paid directly into their bank account and with the push of a few buttons on the internet they can automatically transfer funds into any bank account they want. If that had been the case back in the day its possible that we would have had our own Foundation of Hibs for the last 27 years, because there's little doubt Hands off Hibs would have considered the idea.

The reality for Hibs just now is this:

We have around 15,000 supporters willing to turn up every Saturday ... but of that 15,000 around 5,000 are nowhere to be seen when the team is doing badly and that's being kind, nobody who has actively followed the club over the last 4 decades can deny it. That being the case and with no Armageddon scenario to galvanise them why would anybody think those 5,000 people could be counted on to pump £10 a month into a club they need to be doing well before they will even turn up to support it.

That leaves 10,000 supporters. Of which you have about 1000 who are like me and stretching their budget just to ante up their £22 admission money every home game and another 2000 who not unreasonably would say to themselves " I already pay £300 a season following Hibs, not to mention all the other stuff I pay for following them, asking for another £10, £20, £30 a month is taking the piss " ... besides, the kids need new shoes.

That leaves 7000. Still a good number and only about 1000 less than currently contribute to FOH .... That's the target market, but what are Hibs and Hibs supporters keen to push HSL doing to attract them to Hibs supporters Ltd?

I am in the concourse of the FF stand every home game, not once, not ever, have I seen a stall set up with leaflets or anything like that promoting HSL with a person behind that stall willing and able to give out information about HSL and how to sign up .... there should be something like this on every concourse when we are at home. If 'Since 1875' can put a bit of shiny paper on 4000 seats before a derby, why cant Hibs put an HSL leaflet on every second seat in the home stands 2 or 3 times a season ... especially at games against clubs we know the stands will be full for.

This supporters site ( Hibs.Net ) which contains post after post after post urging people to sign up to HSL and which I presume is fully behind the idea doesn't even have a sticky at the top of its main forum pointing folk in the direction of HSL and I'm willing to bet Hibees Bounce is the same ... apologies to them if I'm wrong.

Then you have Easter Road. A 20,000 capacity stadium with modern facilities situated in Scotland's 2nd biggest city, a city which doesn't have a big concert venue worthy of the name. There are a thousand bands out there incapable of filling Murrayfield or Hampden, but who could easily fill Easter Road and yet the last time ER held a concert was Elton John over 10 years ago ... did that give such a poor financial return that Hibs have never tried it again? And before folk start about damage to the pitch, this is the 21st century, surely there are ways and means to protect it for 3 hours.

And then you have outside investment. I've said it before and I still think its true. The money you would have to spend to rocket an English team of similar size into the EPL limelight is astronomical compared to what you would have to spend to make Hibs a serious challenger to the Old Firm's dominance of the Scottish game. When you consider the fact that the main motivation for the big spenders in England is the kudos and publicity surely both are on the table for any club able to break the Ugly sisters duopoly of Scottish football. I appreciate that Scottish football isn't a big deal in Europe, but I would bet dollars to donuts that if Hibs were to win the Scottish premiership two seasons running breaking a near 40 year old duopoly it would make headlines all over the football world and bring a hell of a lot more attention and universal approval than taking Wolverhampton Wanderers to 6th in the EPL for example.

Have Hibs ever tried to cast a net worldwide with this premise in an attempt to get some big player on board ... we already have the facilities and fan base, all we need is the sodding money.

Anyway .... that's my tuppence worth :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

First off, I'm not a huge fan of all the hand wringing over Foundation of Hearts .... Its practically being used as a stick to beat our own support with in a who is more loyal debate.

Like it or not the fact of the matter ( and it is a fact !!! ) is that FOH came about in a set of circumstance which Hibs simply cannot replicate. These circumstances meant that their fans were in a position where they were left in little doubt that they were saving the club by contributing ... the fact that this may have a knock on effect in the future is good news for them there's no doubt. But if we want to get close to parity with them when it comes to fans handing over money every month trying to put our fans on a guilt trip using the example of FOH isn't the way to go about it. IIRC we have already proved that if the chips are truly down our support knows how to step up.

The difference for us was that our nadir came before the age of social media where its easy to communicate to huge groups of people and even more salient before an age where everybody is paid directly into their bank account and with the push of a few buttons on the internet they can automatically transfer funds into any bank account they want. If that had been the case back in the day its possible that we would have had our own Foundation of Hibs for the last 27 years, because there's little doubt Hands off Hibs would have considered the idea.

The reality for Hibs just now is this:

We have around 15,000 supporters willing to turn up every Saturday ... but of that 15,000 around 5,000 are nowhere to be seen when the team is doing badly and that's being kind, nobody who has actively followed the club over the last 4 decades can deny it. That being the case and with no Armageddon scenario to galvanise them why would anybody think those 5,000 people could be counted on to pump £10 a month into a club they need to be doing well before they will even turn up to support it.

That leaves 10,000 supporters. Of which you have about 1000 who are like me and stretching their budget just to ante up their £22 admission money every home game and another 2000 who not unreasonably would say to themselves " I already pay £300 a season following Hibs, not to mention all the other stuff I pay for following them, asking for another £10, £20, £30 a month is taking the piss " ... besides, the kids need new shoes.

That leaves 7000. Still a good number and only about 1000 less than currently contribute to FOH .... That's the target market, but what are Hibs and Hibs supporters keen to push HSL doing to attract them to Hibs supporters Ltd?

I am in the concourse of the FF stand every home game, not once, not ever, have I seen a stall set up with leaflets or anything like that promoting HSL with a person behind that stall willing and able to give out information about HSL and how to sign up .... there should be something like this on every concourse when we are at home. If 'Since 1875' can put a bit of shiny paper on 4000 seats before a derby, why cant Hibs put an HSL leaflet on every second seat in the home stands 2 or 3 times a season ... especially at games against clubs we know the stands will be full for.

This supporters site ( Hibs.Net ) which contains post after post after post urging people to sign up to HSL and which I presume is fully behind the idea doesn't even have a sticky at the top of its main forum pointing folk in the direction of HSL and I'm willing to bet Hibees Bounce is the same ... apologies to them if I'm wrong.

Then you have Easter Road. A 20,000 capacity stadium with modern facilities situated in Scotland's 2nd biggest city, a city which doesn't have a big concert venue worthy of the name. There are a thousand bands out there incapable of filling Murrayfield or Hampden, but who could easily fill Easter Road and yet the last time ER held a concert was Elton John over 10 years ago ... did that give such a poor financial return that Hibs have never tried it again? And before folk start about damage to the pitch, this is the 21st century, surely there are ways and means to protect it for 3 hours.

And then you have outside investment. I've said it before and I still think its true. The money you would have to spend to rocket an English team of similar size into the EPL limelight is astronomical compared to what you would have to spend to make Hibs a serious challenger to the Old Firm's dominance of the Scottish game. When you consider the fact that the main motivation for the big spenders in England is the kudos and publicity surely both are on the table for any club able to break the Ugly sisters duopoly of Scottish football. I appreciate that Scottish football isn't a big deal in Europe, but I would bet dollars to donuts that if Hibs were to win the Scottish premiership two seasons running breaking a near 40 year old duopoly it would make headlines all over the football world and bring a hell of a lot more attention and universal approval than taking Wolverhampton Wanderers to 6th in the EPL for example.

Have Hibs ever tried to cast a net worldwide with this premise in an attempt to get some big player on board ... we already have the facilities and fan base, all we need is the sodding money.

Anyway .... that's my tuppence worth :greengrin

On concerts, my mate works in that industry and the economics of stadium gigs is such that it’s only worthwhile in really big stadiums. The rigs and sound systems are very expensive to set up so bands make more money playing in established indoor arenas that cater specifically for them.

Fill in the corners and put a roof over the top and we’re in business though. [emoji3]

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[BSEJVT]

We have 13000 fans putting money in to the club by buying season tickets during a time of austerity. That's a remarkable figure and it's a sad comment on the way our game has been mismanaged if our club still needs to depend on donations to put a decent team on the park.

Whilst that is a view that I have some sympathy with, its not IMO dealing with the reality of the situation.

The reality of the situation is that for most Hibs supporters at the minimum Hibs should always be competing to be at the minimum a top 4 side with regular decent runs in cups and the very odd win.

The next reality is that Celtic & The Rangers (obviously) pull in more income than we do and so do Hearts & Aberdeen and the gap isn't lessening its widening.

As we sit at a time of record season tickets sales and (probably modern day average record crowds), we probably don't have the ability to grow attendances much further.

Other income is therefore at a premium.

I suppose a lot falls on people differing versions of "a decent team"

If we are prepared to accept year on year that we will need to outperform those with substantially greater budgets to hit the stated benchmark and folk are happy that more often than not (if the other teams use their extra income wisely) we will fail then who am I to disagree.

I am fed up with that **** and want more, folk can donate or not donate its entirely up to them and what they can afford, its doing them a massive disservice though IMO to kid them on that there is no need for them to do so if they can.

Experience shows that it wont be alright on the night.

Folk rightly go tonto about Hearts over spending and stiffing their creditors because of the "success" it bought them. the FOH monies are a legitimate source of funding.

Do we fight or do we pack up our stuff and say nah its to difficult, lets accept relative mediocrity.

I have never accepted relative mediocrity in my life and don't plan to start now!

[BSEJVT]

[emoji106] All good points, especially about those who might want the seat on the board for HSL/a protective block of shares rather than using HSL as a total ownership vehicle.

Once that groups targets reached there'll be some who will not want to buy more shares but may well want to simply pay monthly direct to a fund for players, the method for doing that and research on the appetite for doing it maybe not clear?

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Your last point is one very well made and one I agree entirely with.

My personal opinion is that that should be an option now, on other threads folk have said I would donate but don't support fan ownership.

If we could find a way for the two "streams" to co-exist peacefully then I would advocate doing it now.

A couple of £100 quid a week might be the cash that enables to hold onto an academy boy who may be a late bloomer we would otherwise have let go.

Every penny counts

[NAE NOOKIE]

On concerts, my mate works in that industry and the economics of stadium gigs is such that it’s only worthwhile in really big stadiums. The rigs and sound systems are very expensive to set up so bands make more money playing in established indoor arenas that cater specifically for them.

Fill in the corners and put a roof over the top and we’re in business though. [emoji3]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Which answers my question Ozzy ..... But the rest of my stuff makes sense surely. Hibs have a captive audience at ER every Saturday of people who by their very nature are already sympathetic to the club and who want it to prosper, yet the club do absolutely nothing to draw their attention to HSL in a proactive and high profile way, for example by having stalls in the concourse pushing HSL. They have a pitchside advert for HSL but what good does that do? I bet 99% of regular Hibs fans couldn't tell you what 90% of our pitch side advertising promotes.

[Liam978]

All fair and well but it doesnt get away from the fact that their fans are pumping thousands per week in to them whilst ours are not. We could be doing more. I would love to see Hibs driving this forward or at least come out and say its not on the radar.

Have to say Brooster that i'm not always I your "camp", but on this subject I am 100%.The **** with their FOH and flawless loyalty point scheme, the Dons have their stand free contribution scheme, again a good loyalty point arrangement, we as a support cant accept that HSL and a loyalty point scheme should go hand in hand,

[Bostonhibby]

First off, I'm not a huge fan of all the hand wringing over Foundation of Hearts .... Its practically being used as a stick to beat our own support with in a who is more loyal debate.

Like it or not the fact of the matter ( and it is a fact !!! ) is that FOH came about in a set of circumstance which Hibs simply cannot replicate. These circumstances meant that their fans were in a position where they were left in little doubt that they were saving the club by contributing ... the fact that this may have a knock on effect in the future is good news for them there's no doubt. But if we want to get close to parity with them when it comes to fans handing over money every month trying to put our fans on a guilt trip using the example of FOH isn't the way to go about it. IIRC we have already proved that if the chips are truly down our support knows how to step up.

The difference for us was that our nadir came before the age of social media where its easy to communicate to huge groups of people and even more salient before an age where everybody is paid directly into their bank account and with the push of a few buttons on the internet they can automatically transfer funds into any bank account they want. If that had been the case back in the day its possible that we would have had our own Foundation of Hibs for the last 27 years, because there's little doubt Hands off Hibs would have considered the idea.

The reality for Hibs just now is this:

We have around 15,000 supporters willing to turn up every Saturday ... but of that 15,000 around 5,000 are nowhere to be seen when the team is doing badly and that's being kind, nobody who has actively followed the club over the last 4 decades can deny it. That being the case and with no Armageddon scenario to galvanise them why would anybody think those 5,000 people could be counted on to pump £10 a month into a club they need to be doing well before they will even turn up to support it.

That leaves 10,000 supporters. Of which you have about 1000 who are like me and stretching their budget just to ante up their £22 admission money every home game and another 2000 who not unreasonably would say to themselves " I already pay £300 a season following Hibs, not to mention all the other stuff I pay for following them, asking for another £10, £20, £30 a month is taking the piss " ... besides, the kids need new shoes.

That leaves 7000. Still a good number and only about 1000 less than currently contribute to FOH .... That's the target market, but what are Hibs and Hibs supporters keen to push HSL doing to attract them to Hibs supporters Ltd?

I am in the concourse of the FF stand every home game, not once, not ever, have I seen a stall set up with leaflets or anything like that promoting HSL with a person behind that stall willing and able to give out information about HSL and how to sign up .... there should be something like this on every concourse when we are at home. If 'Since 1875' can put a bit of shiny paper on 4000 seats before a derby, why cant Hibs put an HSL leaflet on every second seat in the home stands 2 or 3 times a season ... especially at games against clubs we know the stands will be full for.

This supporters site ( Hibs.Net ) which contains post after post after post urging people to sign up to HSL and which I presume is fully behind the idea doesn't even have a sticky at the top of its main forum pointing folk in the direction of HSL and I'm willing to bet Hibees Bounce is the same ... apologies to them if I'm wrong.

Then you have Easter Road. A 20,000 capacity stadium with modern facilities situated in Scotland's 2nd biggest city, a city which doesn't have a big concert venue worthy of the name. There are a thousand bands out there incapable of filling Murrayfield or Hampden, but who could easily fill Easter Road and yet the last time ER held a concert was Elton John over 10 years ago ... did that give such a poor financial return that Hibs have never tried it again? And before folk start about damage to the pitch, this is the 21st century, surely there are ways and means to protect it for 3 hours.

And then you have outside investment. I've said it before and I still think its true. The money you would have to spend to rocket an English team of similar size into the EPL limelight is astronomical compared to what you would have to spend to make Hibs a serious challenger to the Old Firm's dominance of the Scottish game. When you consider the fact that the main motivation for the big spenders in England is the kudos and publicity surely both are on the table for any club able to break the Ugly sisters duopoly of Scottish football. I appreciate that Scottish football isn't a big deal in Europe, but I would bet dollars to donuts that if Hibs were to win the Scottish premiership two seasons running breaking a near 40 year old duopoly it would make headlines all over the football world and bring a hell of a lot more attention and universal approval than taking Wolverhampton Wanderers to 6th in the EPL for example.

Have Hibs ever tried to cast a net worldwide with this premise in an attempt to get some big player on board ... we already have the facilities and fan base, all we need is the sodding money.

Anyway .... that's my tuppence worth :greengrinVery good post on the subject. Nothing to disagree with. We should reflect on the points you make in the first two paragraphs as we aren't comparing two like for likes and the reasons the schemes exist account for the discrepancies.

Absolute necessity to exist and a discretionary buy if you happen to believe in fan ownership are two different things.

And the cash raised by those who may ultimately divest themselves of the club isn't being trousered by them it's going to the player budget.

You won't be able to say that when the good doctor decides to stop diverting their share savings to maintenance, dilapidations and whatever the next project is and actually decides she wants her money plus inflation busting interest back.

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[lyonhibs]

On a tangent, there's no simple way to just give Hibs money is there? What I mean is that I'm a terrible part time fan and a lazy ******* so filling in forms, direct debits etc hold no appeal to me.

If there was a fund/account that was guaranteed to go into the manager's transfer kitty that I could contribute to by logging into my e-banking (which I need to do every month anyway), enter an IBAN and just donate money as and when, I'd do that every payday. Wouldn't need to be bits of paper or loyalty points from Hibs, maybe just an email confirmation that your money has been received.

I'm sure there's a sound financial or legal reason why it can't be that simple which is a shame.

[hhibs]

HSL is a shambles with no real marketing behind it or clear message on how it helps HFC.

it needs a total reboot IMHO.

For example I had a direct debit and THEY stopped it. You couldnt make that up.



I agree, total mess,best to get rid,rebrand and as you say total reboot.

[Lago]

I agree, total mess,best to get rid,rebrand and as you say total reboot.
Some interesting points put forward, but it would seem that in general the HSL scheme has few supporters, how does it differ from Hearts FOH scheme, what can we learn from it or any other clubs.
Answers on a postcard:greengrin

[BSEJVT]

I agree, total mess,best to get rid,rebrand and as you say total reboot.

Although I am the guy who started a thread entitled "The failure of HSL" I think that this is a bit unfair.

The folk responsible on the admin side are just a bunch of ordinary Hibs supporters with their everyday lives to get on with.

Whilst I think we do need to look at every facet of HSL anew, I think this and comments like this are really unfair.

These guys gave up their time to do this and despite asking for volunteers to help out in some way (as part of that long running thread) in preparation for the upcoming re-launch, I received the grand total of 3 replies expressing interest.

Seems to me that plenty are prepared to stand back and criticise but when it comes to willingness to give up some of their time, or at least explore the possibilities of doing so, are found wanting?

It would be great to have the all singing all dancing HSL that we all want, but that costs money, we raise little enough that paying a couple of folk to do this would IMO defeat the purpose.

The reluctance and at times barely concealed hostility towards HSL tends to point to the fact we are fishing in a shallow pool for new contributors.

Make no mistake any uplift in HSL activities, presence or whatever will come from your fellow supporters giving up their time on your behalf.

Get involved, either contribute or offer your assitance

[Ozyhibby]

On a tangent, there's no simple way to just give Hibs money is there? What I mean is that I'm a terrible part time fan and a lazy ******* so filling in forms, direct debits etc hold no appeal to me.

If there was a fund/account that was guaranteed to go into the manager's transfer kitty that I could contribute to by logging into my e-banking (which I need to do every month anyway), enter an IBAN and just donate money as and when, I'd do that every payday. Wouldn't need to be bits of paper or loyalty points from Hibs, maybe just an email confirmation that your money has been received.

I'm sure there's a sound financial or legal reason why it can't be that simple which is a shame.

HSL money does go straight to the managers player budget and is even easier than what you describe to set up.


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[Pretty Boy]

I just read elsewhere, and I haven't fact checked this so it may be wrong, that FoH brought in more money in December than HSL managed in the whole of 2017.

That's not a dig or a guilt trip but if it's accurate it shows what a disparity it really is. They have one stream of income bringing in over 12x more than our equivalent. Given our respective crowds and other commercial income that's a huge positive for them.

[BSEJVT]

I just read elsewhere, and I haven't fact checked this so it may be wrong, that FoH brought in more money in December than HSL managed in the whole of 2017.

That's not a dig or a guilt trip but if it's accurate it shows what a disparity it really is. They have one stream of income bringing in over 12x more than our equivalent. Given our respective crowds and other commercial income that's a huge positive for them.

It was certainly the case that when I started this campaign that it was the case that their monthly income exceeded our annual income.

What I can't see is why folk are so resistant to the idea of HSL and cant or wont admit to the problem you have outlined and the implications of it moving forward.

Sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting La La La at the top of their voice doesn't make the problem go away!

[Bostonhibby]

HSL is not out there trying to sell off the business for anyone. Some fans wanted to buy shares in the club for whatever reason.

The club set up a process to do that which enabled it to be legally done. A group of supporters with a common aim (holding shares through one entity-HSL) filled out an application form and a DD Form and off they went.

Incidentally whilst I am an HSL saver I am not in favour of fan ownership at this point.

The profile needs to be raised if there are Hibs fans still out there who don't know they can join HSL if they want to own a share of the club but are there really that many who don't know?



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[SideBurns]

First off, I'm not a huge fan of all the hand wringing over Foundation of Hearts .... Its practically being used as a stick to beat our own support with in a who is more loyal debate.

Like it or not the fact of the matter ( and it is a fact !!! ) is that FOH came about in a set of circumstance which Hibs simply cannot replicate. These circumstances meant that their fans were in a position where they were left in little doubt that they were saving the club by contributing ... the fact that this may have a knock on effect in the future is good news for them there's no doubt. But if we want to get close to parity with them when it comes to fans handing over money every month trying to put our fans on a guilt trip using the example of FOH isn't the way to go about it. IIRC we have already proved that if the chips are truly down our support knows how to step up.

The difference for us was that our nadir came before the age of social media where its easy to communicate to huge groups of people and even more salient before an age where everybody is paid directly into their bank account and with the push of a few buttons on the internet they can automatically transfer funds into any bank account they want. If that had been the case back in the day its possible that we would have had our own Foundation of Hibs for the last 27 years, because there's little doubt Hands off Hibs would have considered the idea.

The reality for Hibs just now is this:

We have around 15,000 supporters willing to turn up every Saturday ... but of that 15,000 around 5,000 are nowhere to be seen when the team is doing badly and that's being kind, nobody who has actively followed the club over the last 4 decades can deny it. That being the case and with no Armageddon scenario to galvanise them why would anybody think those 5,000 people could be counted on to pump £10 a month into a club they need to be doing well before they will even turn up to support it.

That leaves 10,000 supporters. Of which you have about 1000 who are like me and stretching their budget just to ante up their £22 admission money every home game and another 2000 who not unreasonably would say to themselves " I already pay £300 a season following Hibs, not to mention all the other stuff I pay for following them, asking for another £10, £20, £30 a month is taking the piss " ... besides, the kids need new shoes.

That leaves 7000. Still a good number and only about 1000 less than currently contribute to FOH .... That's the target market, but what are Hibs and Hibs supporters keen to push HSL doing to attract them to Hibs supporters Ltd?

I am in the concourse of the FF stand every home game, not once, not ever, have I seen a stall set up with leaflets or anything like that promoting HSL with a person behind that stall willing and able to give out information about HSL and how to sign up .... there should be something like this on every concourse when we are at home. If 'Since 1875' can put a bit of shiny paper on 4000 seats before a derby, why cant Hibs put an HSL leaflet on every second seat in the home stands 2 or 3 times a season ... especially at games against clubs we know the stands will be full for.

This supporters site ( Hibs.Net ) which contains post after post after post urging people to sign up to HSL and which I presume is fully behind the idea doesn't even have a sticky at the top of its main forum pointing folk in the direction of HSL and I'm willing to bet Hibees Bounce is the same ... apologies to them if I'm wrong.

Then you have Easter Road. A 20,000 capacity stadium with modern facilities situated in Scotland's 2nd biggest city, a city which doesn't have a big concert venue worthy of the name. There are a thousand bands out there incapable of filling Murrayfield or Hampden, but who could easily fill Easter Road and yet the last time ER held a concert was Elton John over 10 years ago ... did that give such a poor financial return that Hibs have never tried it again? And before folk start about damage to the pitch, this is the 21st century, surely there are ways and means to protect it for 3 hours.

And then you have outside investment. I've said it before and I still think its true. The money you would have to spend to rocket an English team of similar size into the EPL limelight is astronomical compared to what you would have to spend to make Hibs a serious challenger to the Old Firm's dominance of the Scottish game. When you consider the fact that the main motivation for the big spenders in England is the kudos and publicity surely both are on the table for any club able to break the Ugly sisters duopoly of Scottish football. I appreciate that Scottish football isn't a big deal in Europe, but I would bet dollars to donuts that if Hibs were to win the Scottish premiership two seasons running breaking a near 40 year old duopoly it would make headlines all over the football world and bring a hell of a lot more attention and universal approval than taking Wolverhampton Wanderers to 6th in the EPL for example.

Have Hibs ever tried to cast a net worldwide with this premise in an attempt to get some big player on board ... we already have the facilities and fan base, all we need is the sodding money.

Anyway .... that's my tuppence worth :greengrin

I agree with almost all that NN, other than the idea of challenging the duopoly. I just don't think it is possible - they are massive clubs in comparison to Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen. Romanov thought he could do it but didnae understand the reality of the game in this country.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I agree with almost all that NN, other than the idea of challenging the duopoly. I just don't think it is possible - they are massive clubs in comparison to Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen. Romanov thought he could do it but didnae understand the reality of the game in this country.

The difference is that even though the Ugly sisters are 'massive' clubs in reality what do they actually spend to stay at the top of the Scottish pile? I would doubt Celtic's annual transfer fee budget is in excess of 15 million quid and their average weekly wage on first team players is probably short of 15 thousand quid. In EPL terms that's absolute peanuts.

In my scenario an individual or other entity who would have to input about 100 million quid at least just to take an English club to mid table, never mind international attention, could get much better result from a club like Hibs with an input of considerably less than half of that. On top of which he or they would be investing in a club almost guaranteed European football every season, far from a gimmie with any English club outwith the top 6 no matter how much money you spend.

Even if in reality its unlikely to happen I just don't see why there's no logic in the concept I've outlined. I don't give a **** about Ukrainian football, but I sure as hell know who Shakhtar Donetsk are because they qualify for Europe every season.

[GillyHibee]

Might be totally off topic and really stupid (please do let me know if I am, nicely of course) but would the Hibs board sort of stand off advertising HSL? I mean, the more money raised, the more shares bought? Maybe they don't want the fans owning a bit more of the club?

This is probably pish but wanted to ask this :cb

[CropleyWasGod]

Might be totally off topic and really stupid (please do let me know if I am, nicely of course) but would the Hibs board sort of stand off advertising HSL? I mean, the more money raised, the more shares bought? Maybe they don't want the fans owning a bit more of the club?

This is probably pish but wanted to ask this :cb

The Board and STF are committed to the fans owning 51% of the club, so I'm not sure why they would do that.

It's not pish to ask. :greengrin

[GillyHibee]

The Board and STF are committed to the fans owning 51% of the club, so I'm not sure why they would do that.

It's not pish to ask. :greengrin

thanks fro clearing that up - didn't know they were committed to that

[CropleyWasGod]

thanks fro clearing that up - didn't know they were committed to that

Yeah, it was the Board that kicked off the whole HSL/direct shares process.

[Peevemor]

The Board and STF are committed to the fans owning 51% of the club, so I'm not sure why they would do that.

It's not pish to ask. :greengrin

I'd also be surprised if there wasn't 2% of the available shares in STF/RP friendly hands.

[Hamish]

There are many people who give to HSL on a regular basis
The money HSL gives Hibs money to spend on players the club would otherwise not have the funds to attract
HSL IMO gives the club the money it needs to get better players and due to its share holding can in time protect the club from being owned by people who may not have its best interests at heart.
HSL owns approx 13 percent of shares in our club

Encouraged by Charlie and Craig Reid's recent great gesture, I have recently returned the form transferring 50% of my shares to HSL. Couple of the guys at HSL were very helpful in explaining the process.

If people are able to, it seems a decent way to give HSL a (in my case) small boost.

[Capt Mainwaring]

I’d agree that HSL needs a revamp with a clear mission statement to galvanise fans and outline the benefits to contributors and to the club. The set up needs to be clear and transparent, and particularly how the funds would be used.

I’m not sure at all that fan ownership is still the key selling point to go with. Financial clout to compare or better with our peers would be good enough for me.

There is still a section of the fan base with an ongoing anti STF/Petrie agenda and the campaign to brand HSL as a “Ponzi Scheme” did a lot of harm to the current set up. Any revamp needs to be embraced by the broad fan base. In saying that any revamp needs to make it very clear that the income (IMO) should be used for player acquisition, infrastructure or youth development. Not debt/loan repayment to STF.

[hibsmad]

It was certainly the case that when I started this campaign that it was the case that their monthly income exceeded our annual income.

What I can't see is why folk are so resistant to the idea of HSL and cant or wont admit to the problem you have outlined and the implications of it moving forward.

Sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting La La La at the top of their voice doesn't make the problem go away!

I'm 100% behind you and everything you say on this subject. It worries me where we could be in the years to come, when Hearts can use the cash they are receiving from fans predominantly for on field gain.

Of course, when that time comes maybe the Hibs fans will react and start doing the same. Maybe ...

What is frustrating is that if we all just got being it now then we wouldn't have to react to Hearts racing ahead of us. If we did it while they have their stand to pay for we could bury them!

Now here's the interesting thing. I'm honest enough to admit that I currently, despite these views, don't pay in!

Why?

It feels like my £10 (or whatever it may be) would make no difference. It feels like unless there is a complete overhaul of the marketing surrounding HSL then we aren't going to get close to the funds being raised by FOH. Now, rather than anyone shooting me down for not contributing (I'm a ST holder who can only make around 50% of matches), would it not be best to ask how many other people are in the same boat as me? People who would contribute if they were given more of a nudge. People who would contribute if they felt their money would make a real difference, and by real difference I mean being able to absolutely dominate Hearts, which we would do if we mirrored FOH contributions.

I think that the potential is huge, but the time is now. HSL needs to be promoted more and the message needs to be put across as to just what kind of a difference the fans could make if we started contributing in our thousands.

[Just Alf]

I’d agree that HSL needs a revamp with a clear mission statement to galvanise fans and outline the benefits to contributors and to the club. The set up needs to be clear and transparent, and particularly how the funds would be used.

I’m not sure at all that fan ownership is still the key selling point to go with. Financial clout to compare or better with our peers would be good enough for me.

There is still a section of the fan base with an ongoing anti STF/Petrie agenda and the campaign to brand HSL as a “Ponzi Scheme” did a lot of harm to the current set up. Any revamp needs to be embraced by the broad fan base. In saying that any revamp needs to make it very clear that the income (IMO) should be used for player acquisition, infrastructure or youth development. Not debt/loan repayment to STF.

What you're saying makes sense, but the bit in bold.... they did make that clear at the very beginning, it was also on the Q&A on here, then it was also repeated in response to the "ponzi" lot when they were making noise and it's been in the minutes to at least one of the HSL AGM (as reported on here).... I just don't know how they can get that message over when all those other avenues appear to have failed?

[GillyHibee]

What you're saying makes sense, but the bit in bold.... they did make that clear at the very beginning, it was also on the Q&A on here, then it was also repeated in response to the "ponzi" lot when they were making noise and it's been in the minutes to at least one of the HSL AGM (as reported on here).... I just don't know how they can get that message over when all those other avenues appear to have failed?

for extra reading - the FAQs for the HSL website:

http://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/faq.html

[Geo_1875]

I think Hibs have only one option if they want to increase income from the fans. Means tested ticket prices. Fill in an application form for your season ticket and complete the section on household income and outgoings. Hibs set the season ticket price at a fixed percentage of your disposable income. If we want to sign some decent players over the summer break, or need money for an infrastructure project or Rod fancies a new yacht, they can increase this percentage. That way people only pay what Hibs decide they can afford and we don't have people browbeating fellow fans into joing schemes that they don't want to.

It beats the hell out of going bust and being threatened with extinction.

[Just Alf]

for extra reading - the FAQs for the HSL website:

http://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/faq.html

:aok:

[Billy Whizz]

What you're saying makes sense, but the bit in bold.... they did make that clear at the very beginning, it was also on the Q&A on here, then it was also repeated in response to the "ponzi" lot when they were making noise and it's been in the minutes to at least one of the HSL AGM (as reported on here).... I just don't know how they can get that message over when all those other avenues appear to have failed?

Should be completely independent from Hibs, with no one employed from Hibs being remotely involved, massive mistake from beginning

[Brooster]

How difficult would it be to forget about HSL and start up a completely seperate fund? Direct debits, one off donations, whatever to build funds to give to the club.

[SideBurns]

The difference is that even though the Ugly sisters are 'massive' clubs in reality what do they actually spend to stay at the top of the Scottish pile? I would doubt Celtic's annual transfer fee budget is in excess of 15 million quid and their average weekly wage on first team players is probably short of 15 thousand quid. In EPL terms that's absolute peanuts.

In my scenario an individual or other entity who would have to input about 100 million quid at least just to take an English club to mid table, never mind international attention, could get much better result from a club like Hibs with an input of considerably less than half of that. On top of which he or they would be investing in a club almost guaranteed European football every season, far from a gimmie with any English club outwith the top 6 no matter how much money you spend.

Even if in reality its unlikely to happen I just don't see why there's no logic in the concept I've outlined. I don't give a **** about Ukrainian football, but I sure as hell know who Shakhtar Donetsk are because they qualify for Europe every season.

There is plenty logic in your concept - I just think that, in reality, it couldn't be done. Of course, a significant investment would put us ahead of our main rivals (at the moment, Hearts and Aberdeen) and give us a much better chance in the cups; just not the league, in my opinion.

[hibbyfraelibby]

surely hibs having, say 500-1000 (or is it more) fans more each hpme game almost makes up for the hearts monthly donations?

EDIT: seemingly wrong with the above (damn)

The Jumbos pay more for their tickets. They think they have upper and lower tiers in their single tier stands and pay premium prices for upper tier sections or for sitting in the middle whereas Hibernian are more egalitarian charging the same price everywhere in the stadium.

[green day]

How difficult would it be to forget about HSL and start up a completely seperate fund? Direct debits, one off donations, whatever to build funds to give to the club.

That's exactly what HSL does though 😁

However, the message has been mixed up with the shares purchase stuff and has confused a lot of people.

All it really needs is a rethink on the message front, and a relaunch.......which is kinda where you are coming from.

[CropleyWasGod]

How difficult would it be to forget about HSL and start up a completely seperate fund? Direct debits, one off donations, whatever to build funds to give to the club.

It wouldn't be difficult.

However, 2 things:-

1. there seems to be a growing list of (worthy) fundraising vehicles competing with each other for what is a limited amount of spare cash. I'm not sure another one would increase the overall income to the club.

2. the unique selling point of HSL is that, as well as giving cash direct to the "sporting achievement" budget, it also enables fan ownership. There's a dual purpose in that which is very attractive for many.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I think Hibs have only one option if they want to increase income from the fans. Means tested ticket prices. Fill in an application form for your season ticket and complete the section on household income and outgoings. Hibs set the season ticket price at a fixed percentage of your disposable income. If we want to sign some decent players over the summer break, or need money for an infrastructure project or Rod fancies a new yacht, they can increase this percentage. That way people only pay what Hibs decide they can afford and we don't have people browbeating fellow fans into joing schemes that they don't want to.

It beats the hell out of going bust and being threatened with extinction.

I'm all for means tested season tickets, I reckon I would save about £200 a year if its based on what you can afford :greengrin

[Sioux]

Imagine if HSL diverted money to club activities that were clearly not to enhance the quality of the playing squad? FOH, which people on here regularly proclaim to be the jewel in the crown of football club funding, has not, and will not for some considerable time, be furnishing with hertz with funding to regularly displace the bigots.

If HSL, for example, used funds to refurbish the directors' lounges, the hospitality suites etc, in preference to funds 'earmarked' for the playing side, we'd have folk on here screaming their heads off that we should be lining up at the back of the west stand with angry heads on.

Stop getting your knickers in a twist about the hertz and their FOH.

If you want to donate to Hibs, you can simply set up a DD. An excuse for not doing that is that people wouldn't trust the club to put their donation to the 'proper use'. There's plenty excuses as to why "I can't donate", but that's what they are - excuses. No one is going to knock on your door every month to collect subscriptions. If you really want to donate, GOYA*, and stop putting the blame on someone and everyone else.

Here's a question. If Hibs increased their season tickets by £100, to make the club more competitive, or added £5 to a walk up ticket, would you buy into it? On current levels that would add approx £1.5m pa, and is administratively easy. If not why not?

Bottom line. Stop blaming the club and HSL. If fans want to donate extra, organise it. But I'm sure there are a sackful of excuses why that won't happen.


*get off yer erse

[BSEJVT]

I'm 100% behind you and everything you say on this subject. It worries me where we could be in the years to come, when Hearts can use the cash they are receiving from fans predominantly for on field gain.

Of course, when that time comes maybe the Hibs fans will react and start doing the same. Maybe ...

What is frustrating is that if we all just got being it now then we wouldn't have to react to Hearts racing ahead of us. If we did it while they have their stand to pay for we could bury them!

Now here's the interesting thing. I'm honest enough to admit that I currently, despite these views, don't pay in!

Why?

It feels like my £10 (or whatever it may be) would make no difference. It feels like unless there is a complete overhaul of the marketing surrounding HSL then we aren't going to get close to the funds being raised by FOH. Now, rather than anyone shooting me down for not contributing (I'm a ST holder who can only make around 50% of matches), would it not be best to ask how many other people are in the same boat as me? People who would contribute if they were given more of a nudge. People who would contribute if they felt their money would make a real difference, and by real difference I mean being able to absolutely dominate Hearts, which we would do if we mirrored FOH contributions.

I think that the potential is huge, but the time is now. HSL needs to be promoted more and the message needs to be put across as to just what kind of a difference the fans could make if we started contributing in our thousands.

The thing I would say is that every journey starts with a first step.

I have been trying to nudge people towards considering HSL but only the individuals themselves can decide they want to do it.

Personally I have little doubt that if HSL were to grab some momentum then like a stone rolling down a hill it would acquire further momentum.

People like to be associated with successful enterprises.

My question to you and the many others I expect will be in a similar situation is are you going to be the person that causes the stone to start rolling

Someone will be, of that I have no doubt.

Far too many people care too deeply about Hibs to let the current situation continue .

[WhileTheChief..]

It was certainly the case that when I started this campaign that it was the case that their monthly income exceeded our annual income.

What I can't see is why folk are so resistant to the idea of HSL and cant or wont admit to the problem you have outlined and the implications of it moving forward.

Sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting La La La at the top of their voice doesn't make the problem go away!

On your previous thread on this subject I, and some others, outlined why we are not huge fans of fan ownership.

None of us needed fingers in ears or were shouting La, La, La!

We have genuine reasons and concerns over it. Perhaps the majority of Hibs fans simply share our view?

You need to accept that those of you in favour of ordinary Hibs fans paying more into the club are a small fraction of our support.

Let’s not go slagging folk off that have a different points of view. Peace.

[Bostonhibby]

Imagine if HSL diverted money to club activities that were clearly not to enhance the quality of the playing squad? FOH, which people on here regularly proclaim to be the jewel in the crown of football club funding, has not, and will not for some considerable time, be furnishing with hertz with funding to regularly displace the bigots.

If HSL, for example, used funds to refurbish the directors' lounges, the hospitality suites etc, in preference to funds 'earmarked' for the playing side, we'd have folk on here screaming their heads off that we should be lining up at the back of the west stand with angry heads on.

Stop getting your knickers in a twist about the hertz and their FOH.

If you want to donate to Hibs, you can simply set up a DD. An excuse for not doing that is that people wouldn't trust the club to put their donation to the 'proper use'. There's plenty excuses as to why "I can't donate", but that's what they are - excuses. No one is going to knock on your door every month to collect subscriptions. If you really want to donate, GOYA*, and stop putting the blame on someone and everyone else.

Here's a question. If Hibs increased their season tickets by £100, to make the club more competitive, or added £5 to a walk up ticket, would you buy into it? On current levels that would add approx £1.5m pa, and is administratively easy. If not why not?

Bottom line. Stop blaming the club and HSL. If fans want to donate extra, organise it. But I'm sure there are a sackful of excuses why that won't happen.


*get off yer erse[emoji106]Eureka! Thats the reality of the FOH model and the difference between what the fund was about and has become.

What's the good doctor going to do next to improve the value of her security whilst further deferring the repayment of the debt?

I'll be annoyed if they get the helipad before we do.

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[marinello59]

Should be completely independent from Hibs, with no one employed from Hibs being remotely involved, massive mistake from beginning

That was a mistake. Launching it as a scheme designed to achieve fan ownership when it can't ever attain a controlling interest was also a mistake. The fact that it needs a relaunch at all is a sign of just how badly the scheme has been run. Any initial momentum was lost a long time ago, I'm not so sure that it will ever be revived properly.
I'm not knocking anyone that wants to donate to the club or anybodys enthusiasm for this scheme. But if Aberdeen and others can run their business without asking the fans to treat their club as a charitable case then why can't we?

[Bostonhibby]

That was a mistake. Launching it as a scheme designed to achieve fan ownership when it can't ever attain a controlling interest was also a mistake. The fact that it needs a relaunch at all is a sign of just how badly the scheme has been run. Any initial momentum was lost a long time ago, I'm not so sure that it will ever be revived properly.
I'm not knocking anyone that wants to donate to the club or anybodys enthusiasm for this scheme. But if Aberdeen and others can run their business without asking the fans to treat their club as a charitable case then why can't we?I agree with this and I'm pretty sure the club aren't asking for, or are reliant on said donations to run normal operations. Unlike some I could mention[emoji6]

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[BSEJVT]

On your previous thread on this subject I, and some others, outlined why we are not huge fans of fan ownership.

None of us needed fingers in ears or were shouting La, La, La!

We have genuine reasons and concerns over it. Perhaps the majority of Hibs fans simply share our view?


Let’s not go slagging folk off that have a different points of view. Peace.

I have no problem at all with people like you who decide its not for them, in fact I respect them.

Everyone should stand up for what they believe in having made a considered assessment of the issue.

I do think though there are those out there who refuse to accept the reality of the situation and deny it.

This is quite different to taking a deliberate decision not to support something.

I am always interested to hear folks reasons and concerns and debate them with them.

The only point you make I would take issue with is this:

"You need to accept that those of you in favour of ordinary Hibs fans paying more into the club are a small fraction of our support"

Neither your nor I know why HSL isn't better supported and its disingenuous to pretend otherwise to embellish a point.

I would though also say that I cant for the life of me see why trying to raise the issue is such a problem for folk.

If I see something that doesn't interest me I ignore it.

I would be staggered if anyone didn't believe that more money going to Hibs was a good idea in general.

They may not agree on where that money should come from, but again all I would think would be those folk are at least trying to help the club, good on them, not for me but I will leave it to them.

HSL clearly rips folks knitting for some reason and if they cant understand it they cant fix it.

Again if its not HSL then come up with another means to get money to the club as others on the thread have done.

Its very easy to demolish something but far harder to build it.

I don't see too many builders on the other side of the debate.

Peace to you also

GGTTH

[Pretty Boy]

That was a mistake. Launching it as a scheme designed to achieve fan ownership when it can't ever attain a controlling interest was also a mistake. The fact that it needs a relaunch at all is a sign of just how badly the scheme has been run. Any initial momentum was lost a long time ago, I'm not so sure that it will ever be revived properly.
I'm not knocking anyone that wants to donate to the club or anybodys enthusiasm for this scheme. But if Aberdeen and others can run their business without asking the fans to treat their club as a charitable case then why can't we?

I suppose you could argue Aberdeen are being treated as a charity case, just by 1 or 2 rich fans as opposed to lots of 'poor' ones.

I think Aberdeen and Hearts are the only 2 relevant examples as they have the same realistic aspirations as us.

[BSEJVT]

That was a mistake. Launching it as a scheme designed to achieve fan ownership when it can't ever attain a controlling interest was also a mistake. The fact that it needs a relaunch at all is a sign of just how badly the scheme has been run. Any initial momentum was lost a long time ago, I'm not so sure that it will ever be revived properly.
I'm not knocking anyone that wants to donate to the club or anybodys enthusiasm for this scheme. But if Aberdeen and others can run their business without asking the fans to treat their club as a charitable case then why can't we?

I agree with you to a certain extent but as many folk don't want any fan ownership let alone controlling fan ownership.

I certainly do not want the latter, but I do want HSL to own asap 26% of the shares to safe guard our future.

At that point I guess I will have a decision to make if some of the allotted 49% is still up for grabs.

My first preference would be for any shortfall to be acquired by ordinary individual Hibs supporters in small numbers to make the ownership as wide spread as possible.

If I thought that any shortfall would fall into nominees hands I would rather HSL owned it

Once that 49% shareholding is reached I will agitate for a separate managers type fund to receive continuing contributions.

I think what we have through HSL at the moment is the least worst option. STF is going to sell his 49% I would rather it was controlled as far as possible by real Hibs supporters.

Where we diverge is on this point

"But if Aberdeen and others can run their business without asking the fans to treat their club as a charitable case then why can't we?"

Aberdeen I accept as an example but as had already been stated they have had individuals prepared to gift them money

Others?

I am not aware of others with the aspirations of the Hibs support.

Make no mistake Hibs could exist comfortably in the bottom 6, pushing for 5th or 6th without HSL, but the support want more and that means money is required.

As to the why cant we?

There is only one potential answer to that that would worry me and that would be because we are being run ineptly. I don't believe that to be the case.

Other than its irrelevant, almost like why is the sea blue, it just is.

The fact is we cant and folk like me think we need to address the issue before it becomes to steep a hill to climb and /or impacts us adversely on the pitch

[.Sean.]

Not read the whole thread but is 5000 supporters at £10 a month really that unachievable?

Imagine what we could do with an extra 50 grand every month added to the player budget?

[Fanforlife]

Im one of probably a fair amount of people who joined H.S.L at the begining then cancelled through lack of forthcoming information.Stayed with it for a year after recieving certificate but slowly but surely got disenchanted with it.If H.S.L do relaunch/rebrand and are more informative/and focused on a real drive towards at the very least not being left behind our gorgay and sheep rivals then im more than happy to sign up again.

[WhileTheChief..]

The thread title is about Hibs’ income. That doesn’t mean just HSL.

We have a professional board of directors and specifically a commercial director whose remit must surely be to increase our income.

How is much do Edin Mill pay for example? Or the pitch side advertising? We used to have Buckstone Roofing sponsoring our dugouts ffs. Where’s RBS, or Standard Life or Rockstar etc.

The south stand, as far as I know, is used by the Hibs Community Foundation. Do we earn anything from it? It’s all very noble but that could be office space rented out or some other way of bringing in cash.

The famous five health hub thing? How much we making for that?

East Mains? Can it be used in some way that doesn’t affect the first team squad?

The money coming into the club doesn’t just have to come out the pockets of the fans.

[Lago]

The thread title is about Hibs’ income. That doesn’t mean just HSL.

We have a professional board of directors and specifically a commercial director whose remit must surely be to increase our income.

How is much do Edin Mill pay for example? Or the pitch side advertising? We used to have Buckstone Roofing sponsoring our dugouts ffs. Where’s RBS, or Standard Life or Rockstar etc.

The south stand, as far as I know, is used by the Hibs Community Foundation. Do we earn anything from it? It’s all very noble but that could be office space rented out or some other way of bringing in cash.

The famous five health hub thing? How much we making for that?

East Mains? Can it be used in some way that doesn’t affect the first team squad?

The money coming into the club doesn’t just have to come out the pockets of the fans.
Excellent points.

[Mikey]

The thread title is about Hibs’ income. That doesn’t mean just HSL.

We have a professional board of directors and specifically a commercial director whose remit must surely be to increase our income.

How is much do Edin Mill pay for example? Or the pitch side advertising? We used to have Buckstone Roofing sponsoring our dugouts ffs. Where’s RBS, or Standard Life or Rockstar etc.

The south stand, as far as I know, is used by the Hibs Community Foundation. Do we earn anything from it? It’s all very noble but that could be office space rented out or some other way of bringing in cash.

The famous five health hub thing? How much we making for that?

East Mains? Can it be used in some way that doesn’t affect the first team squad?

The money coming into the club doesn’t just have to come out the pockets of the fans.

There was a Commercial announcement just today......

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?328025-Official-Site-HIBERNIAN-ANNOUNCE-OFFICIAL-LEGAL-PARTNER&p=5294266#post5294266

[FitbaFolkKen]

Why don't the club simply charge more? I don't do HSL but I have a season ticket despite being unable to attend every game and have sponsored players in the past.

When buying your season ticket there could be a "would you like to donate to this seasons transfer fund?" option. Set up a direct debit at the same time as season ticket.

Or a bolt on to the season ticket for £150 gets you a ticket to an event with the players with all proceeds going to the transfer fund.

The problem I see with any donation to the club is having the trust that the money is going into the budget. Making that transparent is a difficult thing to do as we don't want our budgets in the public eye when pursuing targets.

As for the commercial side I think we have been better, the shop has been much more effectively stocked and the range of products is pretty good at the moment. I don't have enough knowledge of the sponsorship side to comment.

[hibsmad]

Not read the whole thread but is 5000 supporters at £10 a month really that unachievable?

Imagine what we could do with an extra 50 grand every month added to the player budget?

It’s not unachievable. If the idea was promoted properly then I’ve no doubt fans would jump on board.

[WhileTheChief..]

There was a Commercial announcement just today......

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?328025-Official-Site-HIBERNIAN-ANNOUNCE-OFFICIAL-LEGAL-PARTNER&p=5294266#post5294266

Ok, it’s something I guess.

We could always aim a bit higher though. I’m talking national or international companies that have a presence in Edinburgh - none of whom put a penny into Hibs or Hearts.

All the major supermarkets or retails chains, construction companies - look at the amount being spent in the city, IT companies, major companies in Edinburgh Park, financial services etc etc etc.

These are all companies that we are customers of. We should be approaching them and selling them the benefits of chucking as a few million each year to help us compete in Europe and challenge Celtic.

Gotta sell them that dream. Have we ever even tried?!

[Billy Whizz]

Ok, it’s something I guess.

We could always aim a bit higher though. I’m talking national or international companies that have a presence in Edinburgh - none of whom put a penny into Hibs or Hearts.

All the major supermarkets or retails chains, construction companies - look at the amount being spent in the city, IT companies, major companies in Edinburgh Park, financial services etc etc etc.

These are all companies that we are customers of. We should be approaching them and selling them the benefits of chucking as a few million each year to help us compete in Europe and challenge Celtic.

Gotta sell them that dream. Have we ever even tried?!

We should, but have we got the people on board who have the experience of getting to these sort of Companies?

[Ozyhibby]

We should, but have we got the people on board who have the experience of getting to these sort of Companies?

It’s a good question. I do think we need to be attracting a higher level of commercial income though.


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[Lago]

Of course the Elephant in the room is the unsubstantial TV deal.

[CropleyWasGod]

Ok, it’s something I guess.

We could always aim a bit higher though. I’m talking national or international companies that have a presence in Edinburgh - none of whom put a penny into Hibs or Hearts.

All the major supermarkets or retails chains, construction companies - look at the amount being spent in the city, IT companies, major companies in Edinburgh Park, financial services etc etc etc.

These are all companies that we are customers of. We should be approaching them and selling them the benefits of chucking as a few million each year to help us compete in Europe and challenge Celtic.

Gotta sell them that dream. Have we ever even tried?!I would be very surprised if we haven't.

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[IberianHibernian]

Very interesting thread . Not sure constant comparison with Hearts is right way to go about things for reasons already mentioned many times .
A few things :
1. How much do Hibs make out of Lotto thing ? It was presented as a great way to boost transfer funds when it started .
2. Overseas fans . "Overseas" here mainly means outside Britain and Ireland cause of TV contracts . I currently pay less than 100 pounds per year for Hibs International TV Season Ticket after paying nearly 300 ( ? ) pounds a year ( can`t remember exact amount but someone will confirm ) just a few years ago . Point I`m making is that there is a group of Hibernian fans scattered around the globe who will pay money into their club ( and I say " their " cause they`re people who love Hibernian FC despite not getting to many / any games ) . Would there be some way to combine Hibs TV International with international membership while selling both separately too ? "Overseas" membership could also include new Hibbies like Poles / Spaniards etc who have got a soft spot for Hibs and don`t want to lose contact with Hibs despite leaving Edinburgh ( Could pay 10 pounds a year and get some discount in first year on Hibs TV International for example ) . Is anyone in marketing department promoting idea of membership for fans who don`t live near ER ?
3. Fans in Ireland : Special mention for obvious reasons plus fact that cause of Sky etc situation they can`t watch Hibs TV live . Something for our marketing team to take into account .
4. Shirt sponsorship . Has club considered option of no shirt sponsorship ? Could maybe become famous for being first club with shirt sponsorship and first without it ? I`m sure we could sell more without any sponsor`s name on our shirts .
5. Lots more ideas . Is there an e mail where fans can send ideas ?

[Ozyhibby]

Dempster talking about expanded Europa league this morning. That kind of exposure for Hibs could be the key to unlocking the type of commercial income we need.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-fans-contribute-6-5m-to-club-through-foh-1-4673401/amp#click=https://t.co/lonxmXWUSO
That’s why they will be outspending us for the foreseeable future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lago]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-fans-contribute-6-5m-to-club-through-foh-1-4673401/amp#click=https://t.co/lonxmXWUSO
That’s why they will be outspending us for the foreseeable future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That is a big dollop of money.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-fans-contribute-6-5m-to-club-through-foh-1-4673401/amp#click=https://t.co/lonxmXWUSO
That’s why they will be outspending us for the foreseeable future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ancient hibee]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-fans-contribute-6-5m-to-club-through-foh-1-4673401/amp#click=https://t.co/lonxmXWUSO
That’s why they will be outspending us for the foreseeable future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So this is money they have already had.Doesn’t seem to be paying off.We’ve won a major trophy and are doing better than them in the league despite them having a head start.

[WhileTheChief..]

Impressive. We’re not closing that gap just by finishing above them in the league.

Hopefully they continue to squander most most of it on the likes of Lafferty.

[ancient hibee]

Impressive. We’re not closing that gap just by finishing above them in the league.

Hopefully they continue to squander most most of it on the likes of Lafferty.

No we’re not closing the financial gap but we are achieving a playing objective surely.

[Drewster]

So this is money they have already had.Doesn’t seem to be paying off.We’ve won a major trophy and are doing better than them in the league despite them having a head start.

That’s around £25/mth on average from 8,000 fans over that 2 1/2 year period - impressive but surely not impossible!!?

[andybev1]

Very interesting thread . Not sure constant comparison with Hearts is right way to go about things for reasons already mentioned many times .
A few things :
1. How much do Hibs make out of Lotto thing ? It was presented as a great way to boost transfer funds when it started .
2. Overseas fans . "Overseas" here mainly means outside Britain and Ireland cause of TV contracts . I currently pay less than 100 pounds per year for Hibs International TV Season Ticket after paying nearly 300 ( ? ) pounds a year ( can`t remember exact amount but someone will confirm ) just a few years ago . Point I`m making is that there is a group of Hibernian fans scattered around the globe who will pay money into their club ( and I say " their " cause they`re people who love Hibernian FC despite not getting to many / any games ) . Would there be some way to combine Hibs TV International with international membership while selling both separately too ? "Overseas" membership could also include new Hibbies like Poles / Spaniards etc who have got a soft spot for Hibs and don`t want to lose contact with Hibs despite leaving Edinburgh ( Could pay 10 pounds a year and get some discount in first year on Hibs TV International for example ) . Is anyone in marketing department promoting idea of membership for fans who don`t live near ER ?
3. Fans in Ireland : Special mention for obvious reasons plus fact that cause of Sky etc situation they can`t watch Hibs TV live . Something for our marketing team to take into account .
4. Shirt sponsorship . Has club considered option of no shirt sponsorship ? Could maybe become famous for being first club with shirt sponsorship and first without it ? I`m sure we could sell more without any sponsor`s name on our shirts .
5. Lots more ideas . Is there an e mail where fans can send ideas ?

Good ideas apart from shirt sponsorship Too much cash in sponsorship IMO. . One thing I think might make a decent amount on match days is a box that fans can put money in only for buying players - People with season tickets are sure to have some extra cash on them on match days and a pound or two each game as we walk past is nothing to most.

[Keith_M]

,,,, One thing I think might make a decent amount on match days is a box that fans can put money in only for buying players - People with season tickets are sure to have some extra cash on them on match days and a pound or two each game as we walk past is nothing to most.


How about a big plastic cow?

[Bostonhibby]

So this is money they have already had.Doesn’t seem to be paying off.We’ve won a major trophy and are doing better than them in the league despite them having a head start.Whilst we gaze in wonder, is it just me who remembers they have to pay the good doctor plus interest at some point?

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[andybev1]

How about a big plastic cow?

a cash cow?

[emerald green]

I haven't read the whole thread, but the question I've asked myself a few times in the past is why more Hibs supporters didn't/haven't signed up to contribute to HSL? Even £10 a month.

[andybev1]

@ emerald green: maybe more to do with people just not getting round to it. I wonder if volunteers outside on matchdays approaching people and asking if they would like to contribute or even just a stand might get a lot of names. Not everyone uses the net also.

[emerald green]

@ emerald green: maybe more to do with people just not getting round to it. I wonder if volunteers outside on matchdays approaching people and asking if they would like to contribute or even just a stand might get a lot of names. Not everyone uses the net also.

Might be worth a try andybev1, but didn't things like you have suggested happen already earlier around the time when HSL was launched? I think it might have, but not 100% sure.

[andybev1]

Might be worth a try andybev1, but didn't things like you have suggested happen already earlier around the time when HSL was launched? I think it might have, but not 100% sure.
I have been back in edinburgh for two seasons so not sure if before that, I might put it to the fans rep.

[emerald green]

I have been back in edinburgh for two seasons so not sure if before that, I might put it to the fans rep.

Might be worth doing that.

Also, maybe someone from HSL can come on and comment?

[WhileTheChief..]

Whilst we gaze in wonder, is it just me who remembers they have to pay the good doctor plus interest at some point?

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

Easily affordable from the FoH money. We’re paying 500k a year to STF are we not?

Once their stadium is paid for they can then choose to either use that money to pay Budge or to invest in the team.

FoH will come to a deal with Budge where they pay £x over a number of years. Don’t think anyone cares about the interest other than a few Hibs fans on here!

[Bostonhibby]

Easily affordable from the FoH money. We’re paying 500k a year to STF are we not?

Once their stadium is paid for they can then choose to either use that money to pay Budge or to invest in the team.

FoH will come to a deal with Budge where they pay £x over a number of years. Don’t think anyone cares about the interest other than a few Hibs fans on here!

The payments to STF haven't deviated from their intent from day one. I guess we'll know how the payments to the good doctor work out once the money is going to just that. I'm just not in awe of what everyone thinks they might be doing when all they're doing is paying off debt. Not much of a track record in that department even if she's got it properly secured.



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[Eyrie]

Easily affordable from the FoH money. We’re paying 500k a year to STF are we not?

Once their stadium is paid for they can then choose to either use that money to pay Budge or to invest in the team.

FoH will come to a deal with Budge where they pay £x over a number of years. Don’t think anyone cares about the interest other than a few Hibs fans on here!
But the amount we owe Farmer is a lot less (£3.5m), doesn't cost us any interest and will be completely cleared in 2025.

Save Hearts In Trouble will still be forking out when Budge's kids are pensioners, but credit to them for being willing to put extra money into their club.

The lack of interest in HSL is disappointing. Even allowing for fans on low incomes or with other financial commitments, there are still a lot of people who could afford £10 per month but haven't heard of HSL or choose not to contribute for reasons of their own. That puts us at a financial disadvantage compared to them.

[Bostonhibby]

But the amount we owe Farmer is a lot less (£3.5m), doesn't cost us any interest and will be completely cleared in 2025.

Save Hearts In Trouble will still be forking out when Budge's kids are pensioners, but credit to them for being willing to put extra money into their club.

The lack of interest in HSL is disappointing. Even allowing for fans on low incomes or with other financial commitments, there are still a lot of people who could afford £10 per month but haven't heard of HSL or choose not to contribute for reasons of their own. That puts us at a financial disadvantage compared to them.I remember thinking they were going to be uncatchable in my lifetime when they had an owner who was doing debt for equity write offs that were worth millions because he "owned a bank", was going to build a megasuperhotelstadium, win the champions league by 2008, end the OF monopoly, sign world cup stars, and they were bumming up their ties to some of their soon to be creditors.

I see no point in getting caught up in what they claim they might be next. It's about what Budge wants to do with their donations before she decides to tell them it's now okay to start paying her back.

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[Pete70]

But the amount we owe Farmer is a lot less (£3.5m), doesn't cost us any interest and will be completely cleared in 2025.

Save Hearts In Trouble will still be forking out when Budge's kids are pensioners, but credit to them for being willing to put extra money into their club.

The lack of interest in HSL is disappointing. Even allowing for fans on low incomes or with other financial commitments, there are still a lot of people who could afford £10 per month but haven't heard of HSL or choose not to contribute for reasons of their own. That puts us at a financial disadvantage compared to them.

I think you're correct. It was initially £5m repayable at £500k per year interest free.

[beensaidbefore]

Could someone post a link. I would like to sign up but can't seem to do it on my mobile.

[CropleyWasGod]

Could someone post a link. I would like to sign up but can't seem to do it on my mobile.

http://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/tablet/index.html

[MONKEY'S ERSE]

Just signed up to the HSL at £30 per month. We started a Monarchs Fans Trust at the Speedway to keep the club afloat and have contributed around £40k so far. Chickenfeed compared to the Football world I know but big dosh in the speedway game and shows what can be done; we said the same to all - a tenner a month if you can manage it. If we could get 17,000 fans doing the same..... maybe pie in the sky,yes, but defo the idea of canvassing at games would surely bring in more sign-ups-especially if it meant keeping our better players / upgrading the new signings with a bit higher wages,without going crazy....

[BSEJVT]

Just signed up to the HSL at £30 per month. We started a Monarchs Fans Trust at the Speedway to keep the club afloat and have contributed around £40k so far. Chickenfeed compared to the Football world I know but big dosh in the speedway game and shows what can be done; we said the same to all - a tenner a month if you can manage it. If we could get 17,000 fans doing the same..... maybe pie in the sky,yes, but defo the idea of canvassing at games would surely bring in more sign-ups-especially if it meant keeping our better players / upgrading the new signings with a bit higher wages,without going crazy....

Thanks for doing this, the more people that contribute the better.

Meanwhile on the same thread we get the same old tired nonsense about it not doing them much good.

I take it then that the inference from that is that we should wait until it inevitably does?

In news of no great surprise to anyone but the poster concerned, by then it will be too ****ing late!

[beensaidbefore]

http://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/tablet/index.html

Thanks.😉

[Brooster]

Good to see new folk signing up. The more the merrier. Could someone please remind me how much HSL brings in per month?

[Bleeds green]

Good to see new folk signing up. The more the merrier. Could someone please remind me how much HSL brings in per month?

Id like to know this too? Always makes me wonder that when this type of question is asked of HSL the replies are non existent?! Almost makes me suspicious of the scheme and perhaps what is putting a lot of fans off. I signed up and it was so simple expected some sort of email but it's been non existent just an email about my 'go cardless' payment!!

[green day]

Id like to know this too? Always makes me wonder that when this type of question is asked of HSL the replies are non existent?! Almost makes me suspicious of the scheme and perhaps what is putting a lot of fans off. I signed up and it was so simple expected some sort of email but it's been non existent just an email about my 'go cardless' payment!!

Have I got this right?

You are suspicious about something you already know is kosher, sign up was really simple, you expected an email.....got an email and are still suspicious?

Remind me not to be the accused if you're part of the jury.......

[Lago]

Have I got this right?

You are suspicious about something you already know is kosher, sign up was really simple, you expected an email.....got an email and are still suspicious?

Remind me not to be the accused if you're part of the jury.......
So do you know how much it brings in and where can I see the figures?

[Bleeds green]

Have I got this right?

You are suspicious about something you already know is kosher, sign up was really simple, you expected an email.....got an email and are still suspicious?

Remind me not to be the accused if you're part of the jury.......

Mate wtf I said almost made me suspicious it was a general assessment that nobody involved ever seems to give a reply when a question like brooster asked is asked on this forum. As for the email the email I received was nothing to do with HSL which if u read correctly u would know. I expected perhaps a welcome email for starting my donation but got nothing of the sort.

No wonder people are disillusioned with the whole thing

[green day]

So do you know how much it brings in and where can I see the figures?

Thread re AGM ?

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php

[Sioux]

Thanks for doing this, the more people that contribute the better.

Meanwhile on the same thread we get the same old tired nonsense about it not doing them much good.

I take it then that the inference from that is that we should wait until it inevitably does?

In news of no great surprise to anyone but the poster concerned, by then it will be too ****ing late!

I take it you've failed to notice the common denominator between the Monarchs and hertz. Their funding was was a necessity, otherwise they wouldn't exist. When will you get it into your head that the circumstances between us and them are completely different. Your continual digs at Hibs fans is getting pathetic. Tell you what, if you were any way involved in such a scheme, I'd be out.

Your ignorance seems unbound.

[Sammy7nil]

I take it you've failed to notice the common denominator between the Monarchs and hertz. Their funding was was a necessity, otherwise they wouldn't exist. When will you get it into your head that the circumstances between us and them are completely different. Your continual digs at Hibs fans is getting pathetic. Tell you what, if you were any way involved in such a scheme, I'd be out.

Your ignorance seems unbound.

Very silly post and absolutely no need if you don't agree with him ignore him. All he is doing is trying to encourage those who can to donate. Get over it.

[Sioux]

Very silly post and absolutely no need if you don't agree with him ignore him. All he is doing is trying to encourage those who can to donate. Get over it.

There are ways and means. But on reflection i'll accept the last sentence was uncalled for. I'll take that bit back

[Speedway]

Knowing some high society Yams, their donations are driven by the desire to shove it up us every derby forever.

Restoring natural order I think their hog warts attending manager calls it.

We don’t have their seethe or quite the same sense of entitlement but they are horsing us royally on contributions.

Meanwhile we post stuff like ‘we’ve got 13,000 Sts and won a cup two years ago, we didn’t we sign Aguero with all our vast riches?’

[BSEJVT]

I take it you've failed to notice the common denominator between the Monarchs and hertz. Their funding was was a necessity, otherwise they wouldn't exist. When will you get it into your head that the circumstances between us and them are completely different. Your continual digs at Hibs fans is getting pathetic. Tell you what, if you were any way involved in such a scheme, I'd be out.

Your ignorance seems unbound.

Okay I will bite

I will ignore your last comment as you have retracted it, although I have to say you could easily have been describing yourself but I wont :-)

You are going to have to point me in the direction of the continual digs?

I am well aware what the catalyst was for Hearts donation as pretty much likes my calls for action it is replayed back to me ad nauseum.

I have referenced back to it multiple times. I guess you have failed to notice this?

I am completely unaware of the Monarchs situation so you have me there. My bad. Apologies

Regardless of whatever the catalyst for Herts donations, the outcome is the same, they raise approximately 12 times what we do.

Will some of us be sitting back in 20 years when they horse us again as a result of the extra income, saying to each other there's nothing we could have done about it they nearly went bust in 201? you know and that's what has given them this huge advantage?

If only we could have nearly gone bust we would all have got on board and helped narrow the gap but we didn't and we haven't so its just one of those things.

If you have failed to see that is the point I am making then there not much I can do about it.

Yet again I am astounded that I get more grief for pointing out that fact and folk cant wait to tell us all the reason.

Meanwhile partly as a result of my raising this issue HSL contributions are rising for the first time in ages.

You keep criticising me and I will keep trying to help the club.

Your criticism is water of a ducks back to me. I get criticised at home by a professional.

[Sioux]

Okay I will bite

I will ignore your last comment as you have retracted it, although I have to say you could easily have been describing yourself but I wont :-)

You are going to have to point me in the direction of the continual digs?

I am well aware what the catalyst was for Hearts donation as pretty much likes my calls for action it is replayed back to me ad nauseum.

I have referenced back to it multiple times. I guess you have failed to notice this?

I am completely unaware of the Monarchs situation so you have me there. My bad. Apologies

Regardless of whatever the catalyst for Herts donations, the outcome is the same, they raise approximately 12 times what we do.

Will some of us be sitting back in 20 years when they horse us again as a result of the extra income, saying to each other there's nothing we could have done about it they nearly went bust in 201? you know and that's what has given them this huge advantage?

If only we could have nearly gone bust we would all have got on board and helped narrow the gap but we didn't and we haven't so its just one of those things.

If you have failed to see that is the point I am making then there not much I can do about it.

Yet again I am astounded that I get more grief for pointing out that fact and folk cant wait to tell us all the reason.

Meanwhile partly as a result of my raising this issue HSL contributions are rising for the first time in ages.

You keep criticising me and I will keep trying to help the club.

Your criticism is water of a ducks back to me. I get criticised at home by a professional.

You are the one that's missing the point, and if you can't see that you're digging up fans to do what you want, then that's your problem. Hibs fans are not contributing in the same way hertz fans had to. Get over it.

What's being a professional got to do with anything? I'm one.

[Lago]

:top marks
Okay I will bite

I will ignore your last comment as you have retracted it, although I have to say you could easily have been describing yourself but I wont :-)

You are going to have to point me in the direction of the continual digs?

I am well aware what the catalyst was for Hearts donation as pretty much likes my calls for action it is replayed back to me ad nauseum.

I have referenced back to it multiple times. I guess you have failed to notice this?

I am completely unaware of the Monarchs situation so you have me there. My bad. Apologies

Regardless of whatever the catalyst for Herts donations, the outcome is the same, they raise approximately 12 times what we do.

Will some of us be sitting back in 20 years when they horse us again as a result of the extra income, saying to each other there's nothing we could have done about it they nearly went bust in 201? you know and that's what has given them this huge advantage?

If only we could have nearly gone bust we would all have got on board and helped narrow the gap but we didn't and we haven't so its just one of those things.

If you have failed to see that is the point I am making then there not much I can do about it.

Yet again I am astounded that I get more grief for pointing out that fact and folk cant wait to tell us all the reason.

Meanwhile partly as a result of my raising this issue HSL contributions are rising for the first time in ages.

You keep criticising me and I will keep trying to help the club.

Your criticism is water of a ducks back to me. I get criticised at home by a professional.

[Sammy7nil]

You are the one that's missing the point, and if you can't see that you're digging up fans to do what you want, then that's your problem. Hibs fans are not contributing in the same way hertz fans had to. Get over it.

What's being a professional got to do with anything? I'm one.

Whoosh :greengrin I think I means his wife :greengrin

[BSEJVT]

You are the one that's missing the point, and if you can't see that you're digging up fans to do what you want, then that's your problem. Hibs fans are not contributing in the same way hertz fans had to. Get over it.

What's being a professional got to do with anything? I'm one.

Okay

I see the continual digs at Hibs fans has transformed overnight night into digging up the issue, Apology accepted

This thread is about Hibs income and that fans want us to have more income.

I am trying to help facilitate us have more income by publicising one of the means by which we can.

You will need to tell me why you have such a problem with that, not interested ignore it.

But I guess it is easier to criticise someone trying to do something positive, than do something positive yourself?

What initiatives / ideas have you come up with to help the club?

What of your time are you giving up to do so?

What are you doing to help?

Btw delighted you are a professional, of that I had no doubt.

[One Day Soon]

Just been to the HSL for the first time as a result of this thread and now considering setting up some kind of monthly payment to support the club.

First thought: shouldn't .net have some kind of sticky thread which sets out the ways in which it is possible to support the club financially and the pros and cons of the various alternatives?

Same thread could include updates on % share ownership, amounts raised monthly, number of hibs kids tickets paid for etc.

I'd really like to ask a bunch of questions about HSL and the benefits but slightly concerned that it would be a Groundhog Day experience for all concerned if those questions have been asked and answered repeatedly in other threads.

[BSEJVT]

Just been to the HSL for the first time as a result of this thread and now considering setting up some kind of monthly payment to support the club.

First thought: shouldn't .net have some kind of sticky thread which sets out the ways in which it is possible to support the club financially and the pros and cons of the various alternatives?

Same thread could include updates on % share ownership, amounts raised monthly, number of hibs kids tickets paid for etc.

I'd really like to ask a bunch of questions about HSL and the benefits but slightly concerned that it would be a Groundhog Day experience for all concerned if those questions have been asked and answered repeatedly in other threads.

Thanks for considering supporting HSL, every penny counts

If you want to PM with your questions I will do my best to answer them

Official HSL is a bit of a sporadic attender on here

[Speedway]

Just been to the HSL for the first time as a result of this thread and now considering setting up some kind of monthly payment to support the club.

First thought: shouldn't .net have some kind of sticky thread which sets out the ways in which it is possible to support the club financially and the pros and cons of the various alternatives?

Same thread could include updates on % share ownership, amounts raised monthly, number of hibs kids tickets paid for etc.

I'd really like to ask a bunch of questions about HSL and the benefits but slightly concerned that it would be a Groundhog Day experience for all concerned if those questions have been asked and answered repeatedly in other threads.

A 'Hibs Dashboard' would be a great idea.

Ways to support Hibs
Raised so far
% Ownership to date
ST Holders vs Last Year
Average Att vs Last Year
Wins vs Last year

etc

Of course no-one would keep it updated and no doubt some reason would be concocted as to why it can't happen officially but it's a great idea for supporter engagement.

[Sioux]

Whoosh :greengrin I think I means his wife :greengrin

:greengrin

I should have recognised that, been there.

[Insert a yam facepalm thingy]

[Sioux]

Okay

I see the continual digs at Hibs fans has transformed overnight night into digging up the issue, Apology accepted

This thread is about Hibs income and that fans want us to have more income.

I am trying to help facilitate us have more income by publicising one of the means by which we can.

You will need to tell me why you have such a problem with that, not interested ignore it.

But I guess it is easier to criticise someone trying to do something positive, than do something positive yourself?

What initiatives / ideas have you come up with to help the club?

What of your time are you giving up to do so?

What are you doing to help?

Btw delighted you are a professional, of that I had no doubt.

Short answer; I don't have time to get involved. Season tickets self and kids (3), multiple purchases of first team kits, home and away, training gear, catering at ER etc etc. You'd be surprised how much that costs over a year, maybe.

[andybev1]

I have written an email to Tracy to ask about the possibility of recruiting volunteers to ask fans to consider starting a direct debit that will go entirely for the buying of players. Has this been tried before?

[Mikey]

Okay I will bite............



I genuinely don't understand why you get so much grief about this. You're not forcing anyone to do anything, you're just pointing out the bleeding obvious..... Hearts fans are putting around 12 times as much extra (that's over and above tickets, hospitality, merchandise, etc) into their club than Hibs fans do and that's going to give them a huge financial advantage going forward.





Official HSL is a bit of a sporadic attender on here

That definitely needs to be addressed by them. Not just on here but Twitter and facebook too.

[flash]

I finally signed up recently. Should have done it ages ago but got there eventually.
It's something we all should do if affordable as it will directly affect the team on the park.

[Hamish]

I mentioned on another thread that I have recently sent back the transfer form giving HSL half of my shares. Could be another way for current shareholders (in any amount they wish obviously) to contribute to HSL

[CropleyWasGod]

I mentioned on another thread that I have recently sent back the transfer form giving HSL half of my shares. Could be another way for current shareholders (in any amount they wish obviously) to contribute to HSL

Whilst that helps HSL get closer to the 20%, it doesn't actually give them (or the club) any cash.

[Hamish]

Whilst that helps HSL get closer to the 20%, it doesn't actually give them (or the club) any cash.

No I realise that.

[CropleyWasGod]

No I realise that.

I thought you did, but not everyone might. Thought I should highlight it for the avoidance of doubt. :agree:

[Hamish]

I thought you did, but not everyone might. Thought I should highlight it for the avoidance of doubt. :agree:

No you are correct and I probably didn't word my post correctly. If anyone who has shares but can't pledge money it is another way to, as you say, get HSL closer to the 20%

[Lago]

I thought you did, but not everyone might. Thought I should highlight it for the avoidance of doubt. :agree:
So whats the point of doing it?

[CropleyWasGod]

So whats the point of doing it?

To help increase HSL's holding to the level where they can claim a seat on the Board. That's 20%.

[OfficialHSL]

Just been to the HSL for the first time as a result of this thread and now considering setting up some kind of monthly payment to support the club.

First thought: shouldn't .net have some kind of sticky thread which sets out the ways in which it is possible to support the club financially and the pros and cons of the various alternatives?

Same thread could include updates on % share ownership, amounts raised monthly, number of hibs kids tickets paid for etc.

I'd really like to ask a bunch of questions about HSL and the benefits but slightly concerned that it would be a Groundhog Day experience for all concerned if those questions have been asked and answered repeatedly in other threads.


Fire away ?

[Baldy Foghorn]

Fire away ?

PM sent

[Lago]

Fire away ?
Ok well let me start as I am not really up to speed with HSL.
I now understand from CWG that purpose is to aquire 20% of share holding & claiming a board seat. Great fan representation, but how does it help Hibs financially?

[CropleyWasGod]

Ok well let me start as I am not really up to speed with HSL.
I now understand from CWG that purpose is to aquire 20% of share holding & claiming a board seat. Great fan representation, but how does it help Hibs financially?

Oi. One of the purposes. :greengrin

[OfficialHSL]

You are the one that's missing the point, and if you can't see that you're digging up fans to do what you want, then that's your problem. Hibs fans are not contributing in the same way hertz fans had to. Get over it.

What's being a professional got to do with anything? I'm one.


Sioux/BSEJVT

Let's not fall out - we all want what's best for Hibs.

We understand both points being made.

Over the last three years we have recognised that the vast majority of Hibs fans don't notice what is going on in the background, in reality most only care about Saturday afternoon at 3pm.

However, what many don't realise is that what happens in the background impacts on what happens on the pitch. Money has a very big part to play and Hibs like most other Clubs in Scotland are likely to achieve more if we have more money available. HSL gets money to Leeann and the Board to help get a better product on the park. It's as simple as that.

Going back to the original point is that BSEJVT and others are simply pointing out that Hearts currently have an extra stream of income of about £1.3m per annum which is coming from voluntary donations from 8000 ordinary supporters. We, HSL, are trying to encourage as many Hibs supporters as possible, who have surplus income, to consider doing the same.

Some supporters will have that money and will want to do that and that's great.

Others will not have that money and that is understandable.

Others will have that money but will not wish to donate and that is their prerogative.

What we want to ensure is that as many Hibs fans as possible understand the financial background to a Football Club.

If you can please donate http://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/donate.html

HSL

[Mikey]

The original HSL Q&A can be found here.........

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?297704-Hibernian-Supporters-Limited-Q-amp-A

[Lago]

Oi. One of the purposes. :greengrin
Sorry didn't mean to misrepresent you.

[AngloHibs]

FOH funds go towards the new stand and infrastructure, and paying Budge off, not towards Hearts' playing budget. The money from HSL goes towards the playing budget, so in fact Hibs have the advantage there, regardless of the level of FOH donations.
We will never compete consistently with the big Glasgow 2, simply because of the size of their fanbases, and Aberdeen have a very good manager and are established in the top 3 over a number of seasons.
Apart from these 3, Hibs, with their decent attendances and HSL income, are consistently above everyone else this season, which is exactly what we would expect.
Not sure why a few on this thread are getting worked up, to be honest.

[overdrive]

Fire away ?


Ok well let me start as I am not really up to speed with HSL.
I now understand from CWG that purpose is to aquire 20% of share holding & claiming a board seat. Great fan representation, but how does it help Hibs financially?

To answer Lago, it would be because the normal way of achieving of this is by punters paying their direct debits or one-off payments to HSL who then use this money to buy these new shares in the Club. The Club can then spend that money. The transferring existing shares over is more of an issue of the owner of the shares wanting to be part of a collective voice (and helping HSL reach the threshold where it can appoint a director).

However, I have a question about what happens after the quota of fans' shares (fans buying shares and HSL buying shares) is reached. I'm sure I've seen it stated on here that the DDs would keep going and it would just be a donation to the Club. I'm not sure if it was OfficialHSL who said this or a normal punter. One of the FAQs on the HSL websites contradicts this - Q: "Do HSL have plans beyond raising £2.5m?" A: "No. HSL can only collect funds if there are shares to buy". I've not read HSL's articles of association so I don't know if it is something in HSL's purpose that would prevent this.

I appreciate this will be a long-way off but I think it would be useful to clarify.

[BSEJVT]

Short answer; I don't have time to get involved. Season tickets self and kids (3), multiple purchases of first team kits, home and away, training gear, catering at ER etc etc. You'd be surprised how much that costs over a year, maybe.

I get all of that, have been through it all myself as others have and I have steadfastly made a point of saying folk should contribute what they can comfortably afford, be that time or money.

The only point I would make to you is that you took the time to have a pop, maybe you could take that time to think of something positive the club could be doing or you could be doing for the club.

GGTTH

[Lago]

The original HSL Q&A can be found here.........

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?297704-Hibernian-Supporters-Limited-Q-amp-A
Thanks for that. Answered a lot of questions.
When I started with the OP it was with intention of trying to see if there was a way to compete with other clubs, the most obvious, but not solely, our illustrious neighbour. It rapidly became focused on HSL, but this appears primarily to be a vehicle to bring about fan owner ship whilst providing some moneys to Hibs. In comparison foh seems to offer a simpler method of providing an income stream, a sum of money by direct debit for as long as you want or can afford.
I can find quite easily how much Hearts have received via foh, but struggling to find similar info for HSL

Now apart from HSL others have identified alternative ways of securing donations, however Ive not seen anything re stadium or individual stands naming rights for instance. Is there no way a fund could be set up to receive idividual donations of an ad hoc nature.

Anyway I leave it there, in no way did I start this as some assumed to be negative or put down Hibs, I've supported them for a long long time, seen some wonderful players and want more than anything for them to be successful.

[OfficialHSL]

Ok well let me start as I am not really up to speed with HSL.
I now understand from CWG that purpose is to aquire 20% of share holding & claiming a board seat. Great fan representation, but how does it help Hibs financially?

Lago

Our primary shareholding target is to achieve a 25.1% stake in the Club.

Our main aim however is simply to get as much additional money into the Club as possible and thus help Neil achieve our football targets. If we achieve the shareholding target we will have provided over £1m of additional finance.

HSL

[OfficialHSL]

FOH funds go towards the new stand and infrastructure, and paying Budge off, not towards Hearts' playing budget. The money from HSL goes towards the playing budget, so in fact Hibs have the advantage there, regardless of the level of FOH donations.
We will never compete consistently with the big Glasgow 2, simply because of the size of their fanbases, and Aberdeen have a very good manager and are established in the top 3 over a number of seasons.
Apart from these 3, Hibs, with their decent attendances and HSL income, are consistently above everyone else this season, which is exactly what we would expect.
Not sure why a few on this thread are getting worked up, to be honest.

Until around May of this year FOH money will go towards the new Stand. That will bring their total donation to the new Stand to £3m and their total contribution to the Club yo £7m. Once they complete their Stand donations in May they will acquire a 35% stake in the Club.

This leaves a further £2.4m to complete the takeover of the Club.

We understand that FOH intend to continue to support the Club with these additional finances and at that point the funds can be directed to the playing budget.

Like most other Hibs fans we want to do our very best to help our Manager compete at the very top of the Table.

HSL

[Bleeds green]

Until around May of this year FOH money will go towards the new Stand. That will bring their total donation to the new Stand to £3m and their total contribution to the Club yo £7m. Once they complete their Stand donations in May they will acquire a 35% stake in the Club.

This leaves a further £2.4m to complete the takeover of the Club.

We understand that FOH intend to continue to support the Club with these additional finances and at that point the funds can be directed to the playing budget.

Like most other Hibs fans we want to do our very best to help our Manager compete at the very top of the Table.


HSL

How many monthly donations at the moment do HSL have coming in and what is provided to the club on a monthly basis if indeed this is the case? This is what I'm continually asked about when speaking with friends when trying to tempt them to start donating like myself they are sceptical that they don't know x y and z information.

[Lago]

How many monthly donations at the moment do HSL have coming in and what is provided to the club on a monthly basis if indeed this is the case? This is what I'm continually asked about when speaking with friends when trying to tempt them to start donating like myself they are sceptical that they don't know x y and z information.
I think you've identified the main point, how many are subscribing & how much income is that providing.

[green day]

Sioux/BSEJVT

Let's not fall out - we all want what's best for Hibs.

We understand both points being made.

Over the last three years we have recognised that the vast majority of Hibs fans don't notice what is going on in the background, in reality most only care about Saturday afternoon at 3pm.

However, what many don't realise is that what happens in the background impacts on what happens on the pitch. Money has a very big part to play and Hibs like most other Clubs in Scotland are likely to achieve more if we have more money available. HSL gets money to Leeann and the Board to help get a better product on the park. It's as simple as that.

Going back to the original point is that BSEJVT and others are simply pointing out that Hearts currently have an extra stream of income of about £1.3m per annum which is coming from voluntary donations from 8000 ordinary supporters. We, HSL, are trying to encourage as many Hibs supporters as possible, who have surplus income, to consider doing the same.

Some supporters will have that money and will want to do that and that's great.

Others will not have that money and that is understandable.

Others will have that money but will not wish to donate and that is their prerogative.

What we want to ensure is that as many Hibs fans as possible understand the financial background to a Football Club.

If you can please donate http://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/donate.html

HSL


How many monthly donations at the moment do HSL have coming in and what is provided to the club on a monthly basis if indeed this is the case? This is what I'm continually asked about when speaking with friends when trying to tempt them to start donating like myself they are sceptical that they don't know x y and z information.

I'm honestly struggling not to lose my temper with people coming out with this "sceptical" chat and needing spoon fed detail thats already out there. The post from HSL quoted above is on the last page - i.e. yesterday.

Give or take, FOH raise something like 10 times what we do - that means that they raise circa £100k per month for Hearts, and HSL raise circa £10k per month to Hibs.

[Bleeds green]

I'm honestly struggling not to lose my temper with people coming out with this "sceptical" chat and needing spoon fed detail thats already out there. The post from HSL quoted above is on the last page - i.e. yesterday.

Give or take, FOH raise something like 10 times what we do - that means that they raise circa £100k per month for Hearts, and HSL raise circa £10k per month to Hibs.

That almost makes you 'lose your temper' I'm asking for info to help persuade friends to also donate it's a sad state that no one actually just answers with figures it's a 'the info is out there' just give straight figures it's not hard for christs sake. Why should a fan have to work out differences between FOH income to work out HSL! I couldn't give two hoots about FOH Imo here in lies the issues with HSL engagement with fans

[Ringothedog]

Just signed up for HSL again today.

[ancient hibee]

Until around May of this year FOH money will go towards the new Stand. That will bring their total donation to the new Stand to £3m and their total contribution to the Club yo £7m. Once they complete their Stand donations in May they will acquire a 35% stake in the Club.

This leaves a further £2.4m to complete the takeover of the Club.

We understand that FOH intend to continue to support the Club with these additional finances and at that point the funds can be directed to the playing budget.

Like most other Hibs fans we want to do our very best to help our Manager compete at the very top of the Table.

HSL
If these figures are correct what on earth has the other £4million been spent on?

[CropleyWasGod]

If these figures are correct what on earth has the other £4million been spent on?It went towards working capital after they came out of admin.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[ancient hibee]

So without it they would have gone to the wall again?

[NAE NOOKIE]

I see HSL are now posting on this thread, but still no answer to the questions I asked in my original post a few pages back and which other folk have asked since:

Why do HSL not have a presence in the concourses of all 3 home stands during home games? Surely a table with an HSL representative behind it and a wee pile of leaflets wouldn't be too hard to organise.

Why don't HSL put leaflets out on every second seat in the 3 home stands once or twice a season? As I said, if 'Since 1875' can put a bit of shiny paper on every seat in the FF surely HSL can achieve similar.

And for HIBS.NET admins ..... why isn't there an HSL sticky at the top of this forum?

[mjhibby]

You are the one that's missing the point, and if you can't see that you're digging up fans to do what you want, then that's your problem. Hibs fans are not contributing in the same way hertz fans had to. Get over it.

What's being a professional got to do with anything? I'm one.

For all the money for have raised just look at the table stadium and training facilities. Also without the mystery benefactors £2.5m donation they would have lost £2.3m last season. As for the financial gap with Aberdeen you'll find it will have dramatically closed this season and should the crowds stay roughly the same and we get a couple of games in Europe will be very little. We do need to find players like mcgeoch and mcginn but I'm confident with the right manager we will compete a the top end of the spl for years to come. BTW as long as hertz waste money as they do on crap players like Martin and god knows how many left backs then they won't be in the top three in the league. Lastly cup runs contribute hugely too and the semi final in the league Cup brought in over £400,000 to the club. Also bringing through the likes of Shaw and proteus is very important too. Its not all about money. It's how you spend what you've got. We've underachieved in too many seasons.

[CropleyWasGod]

So without it they would have gone to the wall again?Perhaps. But more likely they would have spent less on wages.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[OfficialHSL]

I see HSL are now posting on this thread, but still no answer to the questions I asked in my original post a few pages back and which other folk have asked since:

Why do HSL not have a presence in the concourses of all 3 home stands during home games? Surely a table with an HSL representative behind it and a wee pile of leaflets wouldn't be too hard to organise.

Why don't HSL put leaflets out on every second seat in the 3 home stands once or twice a season? As I said, if 'Since 1875' can put a bit of shiny paper on every seat in the FF surely HSL can achieve similar.

And for HIBS.NET admins ..... why isn't there an HSL sticky at the top of this forum?

Nae Nookie

We are delighted to answer questions posed, please feel free to email us at info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk if we have not seen them on here.

Regarding your points :

1. We have on 5/6 occasions in the past had pop up displays in all stands with a table and leaflets ( along with volunteers ). This has not been terribly successful and the general feedback given was that most supporters did not want to engage on match day.

2. We have also done this before and 20,000 leaflets were distributed around the Stadium. Again, results were not great and the Club received a number of complaints about discarded leaflets.

We have done presentations at the Hibs Club and visited individual Branches. We have also had Stands at all the recent Club Open days.

Having said this we will be delighted to try again. Which up coming match do you think we should aim for ?

We can get round the neighbour problem by asking the Club if we can distribute the leaflets inside the stadium. We are happy to try anything ( that's reasonable and legal ).

Thank you.

HSL

[worcesterhibby]

Nae Nookie

We are delighted to answer questions posed, please feel free to email us at info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk if we have not seen them on here.

Regarding your points :

1. We have on 5/6 occasions in the past had pop up displays in all stands with a table and leaflets ( along with volunteers ). This has not been terribly successful and the general feedback given was that most supporters did not want to engage on match day.

2. We have also done this before and 20,000 leaflets were distributed around the Stadium. Again, results were not great and the Club received a number of complaints about discarded leaflets.

We have done presentations at the Hibs Club and visited individual Branches. We have also had Stands at all the recent Club Open days.

Having said this we will be delighted to try again. Which up coming match do you think we should aim for ?

We can get round the neighbour problem by asking the Club if we can distribute the leaflets inside the stadium. We are happy to try anything ( that's reasonable and legal ).

Thank you.

HSL

Thank you, great to have HSL posting on the forum and explaining things so clearly.

[Keith_M]

For short period at the beginning of the share release, there was the option for individuals to buy quite a large number of shares. I can't remember what the amount was but there was a maximum number per individual.


I have in my head the figure of 125k, but was that number of shares or was it in pounds?

Would it be a good idea to re-introduce that method of investment?

[BSEJVT]

For short period at the beginning of the share release, there was the option for individuals to buy quite a large number of shares. I can't remember what the amount was but there was a maximum number per individual.


I have in my head the figure of 125k, but was that number of shares or was it in pounds?

Would it be a good idea to re-introduce that method of investment?

I wouldn’t be in favour of this the existing holdings of large numbers of shares by nominee companies concerns me

[NAE NOOKIE]

Nae Nookie

We are delighted to answer questions posed, please feel free to email us at info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk if we have not seen them on here.

Regarding your points :

1. We have on 5/6 occasions in the past had pop up displays in all stands with a table and leaflets ( along with volunteers ). This has not been terribly successful and the general feedback given was that most supporters did not want to engage on match day.

2. We have also done this before and 20,000 leaflets were distributed around the Stadium. Again, results were not great and the Club received a number of complaints about discarded leaflets.

We have done presentations at the Hibs Club and visited individual Branches. We have also had Stands at all the recent Club Open days.

Having said this we will be delighted to try again. Which up coming match do you think we should aim for ?

We can get round the neighbour problem by asking the Club if we can distribute the leaflets inside the stadium. We are happy to try anything ( that's reasonable and legal ).

Thank you.

HSL

Thanks HSL ..... I wouldn't make a great witness then, I haven't missed a Hibs home game since nineteen canteen and I cant recall any of the pop up displays :rolleyes:

I would think that leaflets left on seats inside the ground would work better than handing them out outside the ground, good to see you are thinking of trying that. I would guess the Aberdeen game would be ideal, if a bit soon for you perhaps. If ( when ) we make the top 6 the Huns game would probably be best, tap into the fans heightened sense of 'patriotism' and all that :aok:

What about a plane with a muckle big banner ... if the Hertz aren't using it of course :greengrin

[Pagan Hibernia]

Nae Nookie

We are delighted to answer questions posed, please feel free to email us at info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk if we have not seen them on here.





Tried that last year. No response. Then I sent a message to your official twitter account. Again no response.

[Eyrie]

For short period at the beginning of the share release, there was the option for individuals to buy quite a large number of shares. I can't remember what the amount was but there was a maximum number per individual.


I have in my head the figure of 125k, but was that number of shares or was it in pounds?

Would it be a good idea to re-introduce that method of investment?

It was pounds.

You'd need to be earning as much as Malaury Martin to afford that though.

[Lago]

The debate is great, however it seems to be focusing solely on HSL. HSL has obvious advantages but I had hoped there would have been a broader spread of ideas to perhaps complement HSL.

[Just Alf]

Tried that last year. No response. Then I sent a message to your official twitter account. Again no response.They've already acknowledged and apologised for those sort of failings on here a few months ago.... Then they asked for help from any of us who could give up some of our time to help address the problem.

I do get the frustration though :agree:


Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[Ringothedog]

Nae Nookie

We are delighted to answer questions posed, please feel free to email us at info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk if we have not seen them on here.

Regarding your points :

1. We have on 5/6 occasions in the past had pop up displays in all stands with a table and leaflets ( along with volunteers ). This has not been terribly successful and the general feedback given was that most supporters did not want to engage on match day.

2. We have also done this before and 20,000 leaflets were distributed around the Stadium. Again, results were not great and the Club received a number of complaints about discarded leaflets.

We have done presentations at the Hibs Club and visited individual Branches. We have also had Stands at all the recent Club Open days.

Having said this we will be delighted to try again. Which up coming match do you think we should aim for ?

We can get round the neighbour problem by asking the Club if we can distribute the leaflets inside the stadium. We are happy to try anything ( that's reasonable and legal ).

Thank you.

HSL
Is it possible to have leaflets that contain direct debits so as supporters can sign up straight away,if you have pop up stands at Easter Road?

[GMD]

I’ve re-started a small donation to HSL. I had an email answered by them before Christmas with some of my queries and I look forward to them re-launching. Hopefully they can attract people who can volunteer their services to them.
FOH is not tailing off, the challenge to Hibs fans is to keep the level playing field as regards income to our club and retain the upper hand in the city.
GGTTH

[Eric]

It was pounds.

You'd need to be earning as much as Malaury Martin to afford that though.

Apart from shares bought by HSL the highest number bought by any individuals was 1250K at a cost of £50K. Therefore I would suggest that the 125K in Keekaboo's post should have been 1250K and that this was shares not pounds. At least that would be a bit more affordable.

[Eyrie]

Apart from shares bought by HSL the highest number bought by any individuals was 1250K at a cost of £50K. Therefore I would suggest that the 125K in Keekaboo's post should have been 1250K and that this was shares not pounds. At least that would be a bit more affordable.

Just checked my share application form and the maximum listed is 3,125,000 shares for £125,000. Which was a little out of my budget and you've just confirmed out of everyone else's as well.

[Pagan Hibernia]

They've already acknowledged and apologised for those sort of failings on here a few months ago.... Then they asked for help from any of us who could give up some of our time to help address the problem.

I do get the frustration though :agree:


Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Fair enough. Have to admit it did put me off but I’m still very supportive in principle and will almost certainly be signing up soon

[Eric]

Just checked my share application form and the maximum listed is 3,125,000 shares for £125,000. Which was a little out of my budget and you've just confirmed out of everyone else's as well.

I stand corrected but it does surprise me that 6 individuals all bought the same 1,250,000 shares and no one except HSL bought any more.

[BSEJVT]

Really great that so many folk are starting to or thinking of restarting contributions to HSL and coming up with suggestions for them to reach a wider audience.

Its great to see HSL finally getting the traction it deserves. (albeit I appreciate that this forum is only one of many ways in which fans engage)

There's no doubt HSL are massively under resourced from an admin and services point of view and any offers of help on an ongoing basis or even for one off "events" such as the proposed leaflet exercise or manning pop up stands or whatever would be greatly appreciated.

GGTTH

[OfficialHSL]

Really great that so many folk are starting to or thinking of restarting contributions to HSL and coming up with suggestions for them to reach a wider audience.

Its great to see HSL finally getting the traction it deserves. (albeit I appreciate that this forum is only one of many ways in which fans engage)

There's no doubt HSL are massively under resourced from an admin and services point of view and any offers of help on an ongoing basis or even for one off "events" such as the proposed leaflet exercise or manning pop up stands or whatever would be greatly appreciated.

GGTTH

BSEJVT

Thank you again for beating our drum. We are continuing to work hard behind the scenes on our new web site and will launch this at the same time as the wider campaign to increase HSL awareness. We are working with the commercial team at the Club and of course other Club initiatives must continue to progress at the same time. The pleasing news is that following a dip in income as a result of the time limited Direct Debits we are seeing monthly income increase again. As stated on other threads % shareholdings are important but right from the beginning our overwhelming priority has been to just get more money into our Managers hands to help make us a better team.

HSL

[BSEJVT]

BSEJVT

Thank you again for beating our drum. We are continuing to work hard behind the scenes on our new web site and will launch this at the same time as the wider campaign to increase HSL awareness. We are working with the commercial team at the Club and of course other Club initiatives must continue to progress at the same time. The pleasing news is that following a dip in income as a result of the time limited Direct Debits we are seeing monthly income increase again. As stated on other threads % shareholdings are important but right from the beginning our overwhelming priority has been to just get more money into our Managers hands to help make us a better team.

HSL

Excellent news

Anything I can do to help I will

[Rocky]

I think the key to building an income stream (whether it's HSL or manager's fund or whatever) is to get people into a habit where they no longer need to think about it, it just comes from their account every month. Hearts had an obvious advantage on this point as their survival depended on it, so people signed up and sheer inertia will keep the money flowing even after fan ownership / stadium paid for etc.

A good parallel on the inertia front is the DD scheme for season tickets. I don't really need to make a conscious decision each year on whether to shell out £500, I just fill in the Zebra finance form again and carry on my merry way.

Combining those two thoughts, why not add an option to the ticketing site when renewing season tickets? Eg "Your monthly payment will be £44, would you like to round this up to £50 (or other amount) to contribute to HSL / manager's fund'.

This option isn't perfect as it's time bound for the 11 months of the season ticket payment period so maybe there could be an alternative option to set up an independent ongoing DD.

Either way, you're targeting people who are in the process of making a big financial commitment to Hibs, hopefully off the back of another good marketing campaign that generates a feelgood factor about the club, so I think there would be a reasonable take up - probably a better hit rate than a leaflet drop.

I've bought shares but not contributed to HSL yet, but I reckon I'd find it a reasonably easy decision to add £10 or £20 to my payment at renewal time. If every season ticket holder added a tenner a month to the cost of their ST that's over £1.5 million a year. I know there's no way every ST holder can afford that and they're already hugely supporting the club financially but it gives a sense of the potential scale.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I think the key to building an income stream (whether it's HSL or manager's fund or whatever) is to get people into a habit where they no longer need to think about it, it just comes from their account every month. Hearts had an obvious advantage on this point as their survival depended on it, so people signed up and sheer inertia will keep the money flowing even after fan ownership / stadium paid for etc.

A good parallel on the inertia front is the DD scheme for season tickets. I don't really need to make a conscious decision each year on whether to shell out £500, I just fill in the Zebra finance form again and carry on my merry way.

Combining those two thoughts, why not add an option to the ticketing site when renewing season tickets? Eg "Your monthly payment will be £44, would you like to round this up to £50 (or other amount) to contribute to HSL / manager's fund'.

This option isn't perfect as it's time bound for the 11 months of the season ticket payment period so maybe there could be an alternative option to set up an independent ongoing DD.

Either way, you're targeting people who are in the process of making a big financial commitment to Hibs, hopefully off the back of another good marketing campaign that generates a feelgood factor about the club, so I think there would be a reasonable take up - probably a better hit rate than a leaflet drop.

I've bought shares but not contributed to HSL yet, but I reckon I'd find it a reasonably easy decision to add £10 or £20 to my payment at renewal time. If every season ticket holder added a tenner a month to the cost of their ST that's over £1.5 million a year. I know there's no way every ST holder can afford that and they're already hugely supporting the club financially but it gives a sense of the potential scale.

I think this might have been suggested before and somebody said it would then ssbe liable for tax as income?

Would be great if it was do-able though.

HSL Official - what is the best way to get in touch with an offer of help?

[chippy]

I think this might have been suggested before and somebody said it would then ssbe liable for tax as income?

Would be great if it was do-able though.

HSL Official - what is the best way to get in touch with an offer of help?

I think it isn’t the b st way forestd to link the season ticket to HSL. Keep it sepetate just now as if you link it it could play into the ‘pyramid/ Ponzi scheme proponents. Best also if HSL is seperated from the Board completely and self organised. I want all factions of the support on board. There are still many voices not persuaded by HSL and until we can bring them on board getting 5000 members is not possible. Consultations by HSL could help to broaden its base and give it traction , authority , purpose and clarify its role and agenda.

[Monktonhall 7]

In most businesses, it's usually easier to increase income from existing customers than it is to get new ones. Hopefully most of the original members of HSL have now agreed to contribute indefinitely, but what about trying to get existing contributing members to slightly increase contributions, say from £18.75 to £25.00 per month? It's only an additional £6.25 per month, but a thousand members agreeing a small monthly increase could bring in an extra £75k per annum.

Worth an e mail campaign?

[Ozyhibby]

Perhaps. But more likely they would have spent less on wages.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

Yip, they spent as much as they could to make sure they came back up first time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ancient hibee]

I think the key to building an income stream (whether it's HSL or manager's fund or whatever) is to get people into a habit where they no longer need to think about it, it just comes from their account every month. Hearts had an obvious advantage on this point as their survival depended on it, so people signed up and sheer inertia will keep the money flowing even after fan ownership / stadium paid for etc.

A good parallel on the inertia front is the DD scheme for season tickets. I don't really need to make a conscious decision each year on whether to shell out £500, I just fill in the Zebra finance form again and carry on my merry way.

Combining those two thoughts, why not add an option to the ticketing site when renewing season tickets? Eg "Your monthly payment will be £44, would you like to round this up to £50 (or other amount) to contribute to HSL / manager's fund'.

This option isn't perfect as it's time bound for the 11 months of the season ticket payment period so maybe there could be an alternative option to set up an independent ongoing DD.

Either way, you're targeting people who are in the process of making a big financial commitment to Hibs, hopefully off the back of another good marketing campaign that generates a feelgood factor about the club, so I think there would be a reasonable take up - probably a better hit rate than a leaflet drop.

I've bought shares but not contributed to HSL yet, but I reckon I'd find it a reasonably easy decision to add £10 or £20 to my payment at renewal time. If every season ticket holder added a tenner a month to the cost of their ST that's over £1.5 million a year. I know there's no way every ST holder can afford that and they're already hugely supporting the club financially but it gives a sense of the potential scale.
While linking it to season tickets seems a good idea it would in fact be difficult as the agreement is with a finance company and you can’t have various ad hoc changes to the loan agreement details.

[NAE NOOKIE]

While linking it to season tickets seems a good idea it would in fact be difficult as the agreement is with a finance company and you can’t have various ad hoc changes to the loan agreement details.

So far as I'm aware Hibs E Mail or write to all season ticket holders every year at the start of the new ST campaign. What about just including a leaflet with a DD option for HSL and details of how to sign up on line ... that's at least 10,000 adults right there. What any leaflet should make clear is that HSL isn't just a share buying exercise and that its ultimate goal is to put money into the club on an ongoing basis.

Folk were on about other ways for the club to make money ..... AFAIK none of the stands at ER are named apart from the FF ... I think the south did have a sponsor at one stage. If we could get £20,000 a year for the East and West and £10,000 for the south that's fifty grand right there ... I admit that might be wildly optimistic, I have no idea what the going rate is for naming a stand at our level of football.

[Lago]

So far as I'm aware Hibs E Mail or write to all season ticket holders every year at the start of the new ST campaign. What about just including a leaflet with a DD option for HSL and details of how to sign up on line ... that's at least 10,000 adults right there. What any leaflet should make clear is that HSL isn't just a share buying exercise and that its ultimate goal is to put money into the club on an ongoing basis.

Folk were on about other ways for the club to make money ..... AFAIK none of the stands at ER are named apart from the FF ... I think the south did have a sponsor at one stage. If we could get £20,000 a year for the East and West and £10,000 for the south that's fifty grand right there ... I admit that might be wildly optimistic, I have no idea what the going rate is for naming a stand at our level of football.
Exactly the point I made re the stands, I would go further and get cash for naming rights to the stadium, doesn't matter what they call it always be ER to hibs fans call it the Jet2 stadium.

[wookie70]

No idea how much admin would be involved but is there no way we could just have a Direct Debit membership similar to a gym. A season ticket is say £420 so you pay £35 a month, encourage members to take the enhanced option where the extra fiver or other amount went towards an HSL certificate. Having to deal with the finance company every year creates a break point where people have the option to do nothing and give up their season tickets. How many people have a gym membership for years and never go but because effort is required to cancel they don't do it.

[ancient hibee]

Again seems like a good idea but the club will want as much money upfront as possible for incoming transfer deals which is why it uses the finance co.I think including HSL publicity with the season ticket mailing is a good idea.

[OfficialHSL]

I think the key to building an income stream (whether it's HSL or manager's fund or whatever) is to get people into a habit where they no longer need to think about it, it just comes from their account every month. Hearts had an obvious advantage on this point as their survival depended on it, so people signed up and sheer inertia will keep the money flowing even after fan ownership / stadium paid for etc.

A good parallel on the inertia front is the DD scheme for season tickets. I don't really need to make a conscious decision each year on whether to shell out £500, I just fill in the Zebra finance form again and carry on my merry way.

Combining those two thoughts, why not add an option to the ticketing site when renewing season tickets? Eg "Your monthly payment will be £44, would you like to round this up to £50 (or other amount) to contribute to HSL / manager's fund'.

This option isn't perfect as it's time bound for the 11 months of the season ticket payment period so maybe there could be an alternative option to set up an independent ongoing DD.

Either way, you're targeting people who are in the process of making a big financial commitment to Hibs, hopefully off the back of another good marketing campaign that generates a feelgood factor about the club, so I think there would be a reasonable take up - probably a better hit rate than a leaflet drop.

I've bought shares but not contributed to HSL yet, but I reckon I'd find it a reasonably easy decision to add £10 or £20 to my payment at renewal time. If every season ticket holder added a tenner a month to the cost of their ST that's over £1.5 million a year. I know there's no way every ST holder can afford that and they're already hugely supporting the club financially but it gives a sense of the potential scale.

Rocky

Your first paragraph hits the nail on the head. They had a catastrophic event that provoked 8000 supporters into starting a Direct Debit. Most of these Direct Debits were for a small amount that now goes unnoticed. Fortunately we did not have such an event but we are still trying to do the same thing, help our Club. Most of our Members simply don't notice the amount they are contributing and are just happy to see the difference it is making to our playing squad.

Your idea is also good and is something we have proposed to the Club before. It is a fair bit more complicated that it may seem on the face of it but well worth looking at.

In the meantime can I politely invite you to join here http://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/donate.html

Donations start from as little as £7.73 per month and it takes less than a minute to set up the Direct Debit. It's as simple as that.


HSL

[Rocky]

Rocky

Your first paragraph hits the nail on the head. They had a catastrophic event that provoked 8000 supporters into starting a Direct Debit. Most of these Direct Debits were for a small amount that now goes unnoticed. Fortunately we did not have such an event but we are still trying to do the same thing, help our Club. Most of our Members simply don't notice the amount they are contributing and are just happy to see the difference it is making to our playing squad.

Your idea is also good and is something we have proposed to the Club before. It is a fair bit more complicated that it may seem on the face of it but well worth looking at.

In the meantime can I politely invite you to join here http://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/donate.html

Donations start from as little as £7.73 per month and it takes less than a minute to set up the Direct Debit. It's as simple as that.


HSL

You had me sold there but the link doesn't work on my phone.

I'll get the laptop out but, honestly, that's the sort of thing that stops donations happening. I'm woeful at admin stuff and it could easily go out of my mind if I can't just get it done there and then.

[green day]

You had me sold there but the link doesn't work on my phone.

I'll get the laptop out but, honestly, that's the sort of thing that stops donations happening. I'm woeful at admin stuff and it could easily go out of my mind if I can't just get it done there and then.

Afraid It's your phone, the link works fine.

Edit, naw it doesnae 😆

[GMD]

Link works ok for me

[OfficialHSL]

You had me sold there but the link doesn't work on my phone.

I'll get the laptop out but, honestly, that's the sort of thing that stops donations happening. I'm woeful at admin stuff and it could easily go out of my mind if I can't just get it done there and then.

We totally accept you point. There is little point in boring you with why it has taken so long to resolve but rest assured we are trying our best to get this sorted asap.

HSL

ps Thank you for joining.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Exactly the point I made re the stands, I would go further and get cash for naming rights to the stadium, doesn't matter what they call it always be ER to hibs fans call it the Jet2 stadium.

please god no.

i know we need the money and I may be in the minority but I hate this sort of thing

[basehibby]

Rocky

Your first paragraph hits the nail on the head. They had a catastrophic event that provoked 8000 supporters into starting a Direct Debit. Most of these Direct Debits were for a small amount that now goes unnoticed. Fortunately we did not have such an event but we are still trying to do the same thing, help our Club. Most of our Members simply don't notice the amount they are contributing and are just happy to see the difference it is making to our playing squad.

Your idea is also good and is something we have proposed to the Club before. It is a fair bit more complicated that it may seem on the face of it but well worth looking at.

In the meantime can I politely invite you to join here http://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/donate.html

Donations start from as little as £7.73 per month and it takes less than a minute to set up the Direct Debit. It's as simple as that.


HSL

Well that's me signed up for 10 squid a month too now through the above link - easy peasy lemon squeazy my Hibee chums - go on have a go and take the plunge! We'll out splurge these filthy Yams yet!

[cabbageandribs1875]

No idea how much admin would be involved but is there no way we could just have a Direct Debit membership similar to a gym. A season ticket is say £420 so you pay £35 a month, encourage members to take the enhanced option where the extra fiver or other amount went towards an HSL certificate. Having to deal with the finance company every year creates a break point where people have the option to do nothing and give up their season tickets. How many people have a gym membership for years and never go but because effort is required to cancel they don't do it.


i can relate to that, £25/month DD and i haven't been for approx 8 months, then after going twice it was 7 months without going before that, etc etc etc



:(

[cabbageandribs1875]

Rocky

Your first paragraph hits the nail on the head. They had a catastrophic event that provoked 8000 supporters into starting a Direct Debit. Most of these Direct Debits were for a small amount that now goes unnoticed. Fortunately we did not have such an event but we are still trying to do the same thing, help our Club. Most of our Members simply don't notice the amount they are contributing and are just happy to see the difference it is making to our playing squad.

Your idea is also good and is something we have proposed to the Club before. It is a fair bit more complicated that it may seem on the face of it but well worth looking at.

In the meantime can I politely invite you to join here http://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/donate.html

Donations start from as little as £7.73 per month and it takes less than a minute to set up the Direct Debit. It's as simple as that.


HSL

Dear Mr HSL, can i suggest you embed the url for the HSL site in to your profile signature...thus you won't need to keep adding a link in your posts :greengrinmakes it easier for all....and so would a sticky on .net, imo of course





just sayin likes

[green day]

please god no.

i know we need the money and I may be in the minority but I hate this sort of thing

Me too - Superseal Stadium, Insurance Direct stadium etc - loadypish

[Lago]

Me too - Superseal Stadium, Insurance Direct stadium etc - loadypish
But it would always be ER. Do you think Swansea worry that they play at the Vitality or Stoke at the Bet365. Doubt it.

[hibbysam]

But it would always be ER. Do you think Swansea worry that they play at the Vitality or Stoke at the Bet365. Doubt it.

The best example is murrayfield. I call it murrayfield as do 99% of the population, but BT have the rights to the name but instead of calling it the BT arena or some rubbish, they incorporated it into the name, BT murrayfield.

[OfficialHSL]

Dear Mr HSL, can i suggest you embed the url for the HSL site in to your profile signature...thus you won't need to keep adding a link in your posts :greengrinmakes it easier for all....and so would a sticky on .net, imo of course





just sayin likes

Cabbageandribs1875

Thank you so much for your kind suggestion. We have already contacted an Aministrator about the sticky thread and someone who can add the link.

HSL

[Ozyhibby]

Me too - Superseal Stadium, Insurance Direct stadium etc - loadypish

Tony Macaroni Arena is as good as any name in british football.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lago]

The best example is murrayfield. I call it murrayfield as do 99% of the population, but BT have the rights to the name but instead of calling it the BT arena or some rubbish, they incorporated it into the name, BT murrayfield.
Exactly

[green&left]

Reading on P&B there Aberdeen have launched a new membership scheme, AberDNA. 3000 sign-ups and half a million raised already apparently...

https://www.afc.co.uk/aberdna/

https://www.afc.co.uk/2018/04/30/aberdna-membership-drives-football-investment/

[Since90+2]

Reading on P&B there Aberdeen have launched a new membership scheme, AberDNA. 3000 sign-ups and half a million raised already apparently...

https://www.afc.co.uk/aberdna/

https://www.afc.co.uk/2018/04/30/aberdna-membership-drives-football-investment/

I can see why thats been popular with Aberdeen fans if you look at what you get for your monthly payment.

[makaveli1875]

Reading on P&B there Aberdeen have launched a new membership scheme, AberDNA. 3000 sign-ups and half a million raised already apparently...

https://www.afc.co.uk/aberdna/

https://www.afc.co.uk/2018/04/30/aberdna-membership-drives-football-investment/

Premium memership is £18 standard is £12 so even if all 3000 are premium that only adds up to £54'000

[Beefster]

Premium memership is £18 standard is £12 so even if all 3000 are premium that only adds up to £54'000

A month.

[jacomo]

I can see why thats been popular with Aberdeen fans if you look at what you get for your monthly payment.


Exactly. This new Aberdeen membership scheme includes a lot of discounts and benefits, so this is not all additional revenue.

[El Gubbz]

I can see why thats been popular with Aberdeen fans if you look at what you get for your monthly payment.
HSL & Hibs could do worse than copying this

[IGRIGI]

Some very decent discounts etc in the Sheep's offering, Hibs should be looking into that.

[Famous Fiver]

Slightly off topic but Sportsound pundits going on about the tens of millions needed for Rangers to challenge Celtic. We are doing it and are not chucking tens of millions at it.

We have a structure, a strategy, the right staff in the right places, a sound recruitment policy, and a belief. All of these things lacking at Rangers and at Hibs are at least the equal of and indeed, in my opinion, far better than at Aberdeen so it does not necessarily mean we should be simply chucking money at it.

Great if we get more money from the fans but we have cut our coat according to our cloth, and from where I am sitting, we are not doing too badly.

[wookie70]

HSL & Hibs could do worse than copying this

Looking at what you get for the premium it is no wonder it is popular. 15% of a ST (£60) replica top (£40) and 15 % off the club shop (around £15-20 for me a year at least). That makes a total of around £120 so you are only paying a tenner a month to be part of the scheme and also you get lots of other benefits. It may have brought in half a million quid but plenty of that won't be profit. Good idea but don't like that you get loyalty points for something that isn't attending games. Apart from that it might be a good idea for those that spend a lot in the shop or who would get enjoyment from some of the other events. Well worth looking into as our neighbours and other clubs will eventually reap the rewards of these schemes if they haven't done so already. The only thing I would be careful about is in taking away fans from HSL which is a pure profit scheme barring of course you get a slice of the club in exchange. Anything that gives us the ability to sign players of the level we have in the last 3 years.

[RyeSloan]

Looking at what you get for the premium it is no wonder it is popular. 15% of a ST (£60) replica top (£40) and 15 % off the club shop (around £15-20 for me a year at least). That makes a total of around £120 so you are only paying a tenner a month to be part of the scheme and also you get lots of other benefits. It may have brought in half a million quid but plenty of that won't be profit. Good idea but don't like that you get loyalty points for something that isn't attending games. Apart from that it might be a good idea for those that spend a lot in the shop or who would get enjoyment from some of the other events. Well worth looking into as our neighbours and other clubs will eventually reap the rewards of these schemes if they haven't done so already. The only thing I would be careful about is in taking away fans from HSL which is a pure profit scheme barring of course you get a slice of the club in exchange. Anything that gives us the ability to sign players of the level we have in the last 3 years.

It’s a bit fiddly and complex for my liking...x% off this, x% off that.

But none the less shows clubs are trying very hard to raise extra revenue in different ways and if HSL is to be our vehicle then we should hope its recent relaunch maintains its momentum.

[Baw187]

Looking at what you get for the premium it is no wonder it is popular. 15% of a ST (£60) replica top (£40) and 15 % off the club shop (around £15-20 for me a year at least). That makes a total of around £120 so you are only paying a tenner a month to be part of the scheme and also you get lots of other benefits. It may have brought in half a million quid but plenty of that won't be profit. Good idea but don't like that you get loyalty points for something that isn't attending games. Apart from that it might be a good idea for those that spend a lot in the shop or who would get enjoyment from some of the other events. Well worth looking into as our neighbours and other clubs will eventually reap the rewards of these schemes if they haven't done so already. The only thing I would be careful about is in taking away fans from HSL which is a pure profit scheme barring of course you get a slice of the club in exchange. Anything that gives us the ability to sign players of the level we have in the last 3 years.

There will people who will buy things at the store that they wouldn’t ordinarily buy without the discount. But agree, that won’t make up the difference.

[ian cruise]

Looking at what you get for the premium it is no wonder it is popular. 15% of a ST (£60) replica top (£40) and 15 % off the club shop (around £15-20 for me a year at least). That makes a total of around £120 so you are only paying a tenner a month to be part of the scheme and also you get lots of other benefits. It may have brought in half a million quid but plenty of that won't be profit. Good idea but don't like that you get loyalty points for something that isn't attending games. Apart from that it might be a good idea for those that spend a lot in the shop or who would get enjoyment from some of the other events. Well worth looking into as our neighbours and other clubs will eventually reap the rewards of these schemes if they haven't done so already. The only thing I would be careful about is in taking away fans from HSL which is a pure profit scheme barring of course you get a slice of the club in exchange. Anything that gives us the ability to sign players of the level we have in the last 3 years.

How can 100% be going towards the first team when you're getting a top and other items as part of the package, those things have a cost attached? I now it's all schematics but it's a little misleading.

As the above post highlights, they're losing revenue elsewhere with this so the overall profit won't be seen until they start to publish accounts, but there's a risk its minimal.