1 Derby defeat does not result in a crisis

[FifeHibs]

20 days ago we went to tynecastle and they never had a shot.

Wet horrible pitch, due to the width we can't play 2 wingers. We never played well, probably deserved a draw though.

Hearts some how manage to pull of freak results on the tattie field they play on.

No right back and Efe was left exposed and didn't have a great game.
if we had played the new full back questions would have been asked why Efe wasn't playing right back after the 0-0 in December.

The assault on Bartley inwhich no attempt to play the ball was knee high and could have resulted in a red card, we were creeping back into the game at this point.

The Stokes situation needs resolved and the club will move on in a new direction.

We require squad strengthening in certain areas which will hopefully be addressed.

In the last 7 months we have gained promotion played in the Scottish cup and league cup semi finals beat Rangers at Ibrox, drawn twice with Celtic and beaten Hearts ( Rangers and Hearts should have been 2 victories) we sit 4th in the premier and hopefully start to challenge for 3rd.

We have created the most chances in the premier league.

Barker for 20 minutes was a cut above anyone on the pitch.

Our average players weaknesses were again shown again hopefully this will be addressed through squad strengthening

Signed international players

I'd hate to have had the internet when we couldn't beat them for 21 games.

Everyone is intitiled to an opinion and some will agree and others won't but this is definitely not a crisis that it's made out to be.

[Bostonhibby]

Yep, agree with nearly all of this, Hearts really didn't look anything special and were celebrating a scrappy win against a weak, tactically bereft Hibs side like they'd finally won that promised Champions League.

My only concern about the game itself is how we fell so far, no doubt the Portugal mess wasn't treated as it should have been by some, we are capable of better but I didn't understand the team selection or quite a few of the players performances yesterday. I'd be looking to see Murray get a consistent start to see if he can do it every week. That's Fraser and Simon. We must must sort RB out, as its not Efe.

Onward and upward, I'd rather be a Hibby just now than a yam that's for sure.

[Not In The Know]

Exactly!

Yesterday in a derby we played away from home basically...

They missed a sitter. We missed a sitter
Their keeper made a wonder save. Our keeper made a wonder save.
We were better the first half. They were better the second half.

And over the two games their shot went over the line and they got a goal. Our shot went over the line and we never got a goal.

Its all fine margins certainly not a crisis.

[Speedway]

No, one derby defeat does not in a crisis but failure to win on Wednesday will make it 2 wins in eleven, a full set of fixtures, and that looks like a crisis.

[One Day Soon]

20 days ago we went to tynecastle and they never had a shot.

Wet horrible pitch, due to the width we can't play 2 wingers. We never played well, probably deserved a draw though.

Hearts some how manage to pull of freak results on the tattie field they play on.

No right back and Efe was left exposed and didn't have a great game.
if we had played the new full back questions would have been asked why Efe wasn't playing right back after the 0-0 in December.

The assault on Bartley inwhich no attempt to play the ball was knee high and could have resulted in a red card, we were creeping back into the game at this point.

The Stokes situation needs resolved and the club will move on in a new direction.

We require squad strengthening in certain areas which will hopefully be addressed.

In the last 7 months we have gained promotion played in the Scottish cup and league cup semi finals beat Rangers at Ibrox, drawn twice with Celtic and beaten Hearts ( Rangers and Hearts should have been 2 victories) we sit 4th in the premier and hopefully start to challenge for 3rd.

We have created the most chances in the premier league.

Barker for 20 minutes was a cut above anyone on the pitch.

Our average players weaknesses were again shown again hopefully this will be addressed through squad strengthening

Signed international players

I'd hate to have had the internet when we couldn't beat them for 21 games.

Everyone is intitiled to an opinion and some will agree and others won't but this is definitely not a crisis that it's made out to be.


I agree with almost everything you have written. However some posters seem to be quite effectively making the case against your proposition above that I have highlighted.

[lyonhibs]

No, one derby defeat does not in a crisis but failure to win on Wednesday will make it 2 wins in eleven, a full set of fixtures, and that looks like a crisis.

This is the key underlying point for me. Losing to Hearts per se is pain in the pisser but not a crisis.

However, how anyone can say our results over the last month or 2 have been satisfactory is beyond me and, besides the usual OTT froth and slavers that come after every defeat, I think this defeat might be the straw that's starting to strain the camel's back for some and a look at the form table indicates why.

[SlickShoes]

This is the key underlying point for me. Losing to Hearts per se is pain in the pisser but not a crisis.

However, how anyone can say our results over the last month or 2 have been satisfactory is beyond me and, besides the usual OTT froth and slavers that come after every defeat, I think this defeat might be the straw that's starting to strain the camel's back for some and a look at the form table indicates why.

And you let the manager sort it out, give him time to do his job.

Other teams that offload managers and our history with doing this is abysmal, we are doing better than we have done for years.

[scoopyboy]

It's not so much yesterday's defeat that is getting me down today, it's more I've got this horrible gut feeling that we've been here before.

Not an impressive January window, nothing against the players that have signed it's more that they are not in the areas I think we need the most improvement.

Ollie Shaw has went from a promising laddie getting a few minutes first team football here and there to our first choice striker in a matter of weeks. He's not ready for that IMO.

More importantly for me I don't see too many wins on the horizon and I feel the big resurrection is hitting its first mini crisis.

I'm not claiming Hibs are awash with money but if we don't have money available in this window then I fear we will never have money available, and I don't mean money raised by selling players. We have 13,500 season ticket holders and average gates of around 18000 so if money isn't available then where the hell is it going?

[calumhibee1]

It's not so much yesterday's defeat that is getting me down today, it's more I've got this horrible gut feeling that we've been here before.

Not an impressive January window, nothing against the players that have signed it's more that they are not in the areas I think we need the most improvement.

Ollie Shaw has went from a promising laddie getting a few minutes first team football here and there to our first choice striker in a matter of weeks. He's not ready for that IMO.

More importantly for me I don't see too many wins on the horizon and I feel the big resurrection is hitting its first mini crisis.

I'm not claiming Hibs are awash with money but if we don't have money available in this window then I fear we will never have money available, and I don't mean money raised by selling players. We have 13,500 season ticket holders and average gates of around 18000 so if money isn't available then where the hell is it going?

Agree with all of this. And if people can’t genuinely understand why fans are getting increasingly concerned by our poor extended run of form, difficult upcoming fixtures and our managers poor signing record then they should maybe remove the green tinted glasses. We’re struggling right now and we’re only where we are because we started the season well.

[Jones28]

No, one derby defeat does not in a crisis but failure to win on Wednesday will make it 2 wins in eleven, a full set of fixtures, and that looks like a crisis.

That's is a ****ing honking record, doesn't matter what anyone says. Meanwhile Hearts haven't conceded a goal in 10 hours of football and are 10 unbeaten, including humping Celtic 4-0 in that time.

[lyonhibs]

And you let the manager sort it out, give him time to do his job.

Other teams that offload managers and our history with doing this is abysmal, we are doing better than we have done for years.

I don't disagree but let's not pretend that the Derby defeat and ***** performance was somehow a blip in an otherwise radiant couple of months.

[DelcyRodriguez]

No, one derby defeat does not in a crisis but failure to win on Wednesday will make it 2 wins in eleven, a full set of fixtures, and that looks like a crisis.

Well said.

I was going to type something similar but you have covered the points I was going to make.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

It's not so much yesterday's defeat that is getting me down today, it's more I've got this horrible gut feeling that we've been here before.

Not an impressive January window, nothing against the players that have signed it's more that they are not in the areas I think we need the most improvement.

Ollie Shaw has went from a promising laddie getting a few minutes first team football here and there to our first choice striker in a matter of weeks. He's not ready for that IMO.

More importantly for me I don't see too many wins on the horizon and I feel the big resurrection is hitting its first mini crisis.

I'm not claiming Hibs are awash with money but if we don't have money available in this window then I fear we will never have money available, and I don't mean money raised by selling players. We have 13,500 season ticket holders and average gates of around 18000 so if money isn't available then where the hell is it going?

Agree with this. Said on another thread that i think yesterdays performance was a symptom of off field problems - looked that way to me (no inside info)

[SRHibs]

It feels like the enormous importance Hearts have placed on the derby in recent years has been contagious. I’m not saying it’s not an important game, but let’s not play into the narrative that losing a derby is somehow ‘season-ending’. This mentality is what caused Hearts to get rid of Neilson, a manager who wasn’t exactly performing terribly. You win some, you lose some. Fair enough, the performance was garbage, but those types of games are always a scrappy.

We’ve lost Stokes and signed a couple. Stokes hasn’t exactly been setting the heather alight either, and he’s been causing unrest internally. With that in mind, his leaving may in fact be a positive. If we can hold onto McGeouch and McGinn that would be ideal. We are still in the running for a European place in our first season back in the SPL. That’s pretty superb IMO. I almost think we’ve gotten too used to winning in the Championship, and it means there’s such an overreaction to every defeat.

[marinello59]

It's not so much yesterday's defeat that is getting me down today, it's more I've got this horrible gut feeling that we've been here before.

Not an impressive January window, nothing against the players that have signed it's more that they are not in the areas I think we need the most improvement.

Ollie Shaw has went from a promising laddie getting a few minutes first team football here and there to our first choice striker in a matter of weeks. He's not ready for that IMO.

More importantly for me I don't see too many wins on the horizon and I feel the big resurrection is hitting its first mini crisis.

I'm not claiming Hibs are awash with money but if we don't have money available in this window then I fear we will never have money available, and I don't mean money raised by selling players. We have 13,500 season ticket holders and average gates of around 18000 so if money isn't available then where the hell is it going?

I agree with all of that.

[IlDiavola]

It's not so much yesterday's defeat that is getting me down today, it's more I've got this horrible gut feeling that we've been here before.

Not an impressive January window, nothing against the players that have signed it's more that they are not in the areas I think we need the most improvement.

Ollie Shaw has went from a promising laddie getting a few minutes first team football here and there to our first choice striker in a matter of weeks. He's not ready for that IMO.

More importantly for me I don't see too many wins on the horizon and I feel the big resurrection is hitting its first mini crisis.

I'm not claiming Hibs are awash with money but if we don't have money available in this window then I fear we will never have money available, and I don't mean money raised by selling players. We have 13,500 season ticket holders and average gates of around 18000 so if money isn't available then where the hell is it going?

Brilliant post :top marks

[MWHIBBIES]

That's is a ****ing honking record, doesn't matter what anyone says. Meanwhile Hearts haven't conceded a goal in 10 hours of football and are 10 unbeaten, including humping Celtic 4-0 in that time.

The Hearts havent conceded a goal in x line needs to stop. We scored a perfectly good ****ing goal against them a months ago. The officials are the reason for that record being intact

[Pagan Hibernia]

Agree with the original post. It was a poor game and we were marginally worse but it’s no crisis.

Life goes on, there’ll be another derby in 6 short weeks time and Levein may well regret his comments...

in the meantime let’s start converting chances into goals and win a few games

[SideBurns]

I recall losing to Morton, Queen of the South, and Dumbarton in late February/ early March 2016. Later in March we suffered the disappointment of the League Cup Final, then about 6 weeks later had the disastrous play-off defeat. And yet...those same players achieved legendary status at Hampden soon after.

My point is that things can change very quickly in fitba and we can't allow the carefully re-built relationship between club, players and fans to disintegrate over some nonsense on a training trip and a derby defeat. The team is good enough to beat Dundee and gather points in the games that follow. They just have to pick themselves up, as we all do.

[Jones28]

The Hearts havent conceded a goal in x line needs to stop. We scored a perfectly good ****ing goal against them a months ago. The officials are the reason for that record being intact

The score was 0-0, we may have scored a legitimate goal but it counted for **** all at the end of the day.

[Borderhibbie76]

The score was 0-0, we may have scored a legitimate goal but it counted for **** all at the end of the day.And that was nobody's fault other than the officials. No idea why you are bringing hearts defensive record into a thread about Hibs current form...bit weird and obsessive

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[NAE NOOKIE]

Absolutely agree with the OP .... this is not a crisis. That game on Sunday for all that we didn't play well on a poor pitch which is about as wide as my back garden could still well have gone our way.

There are a couple of points being made though which are worth consideration:

Our crowds were very good last season and are even better this season, we consistently make Hampden, so one has to wonder where the hell all the money is going. We are the 5th best payers in the league so we aren't busting the bank on wages. The question has to be asked, if we were getting our historic average of the last 30 years of about 10,000 and weren't getting to the latter stages of cup competitions just how skint would we be now? Its a shame we cant find a 'mystery benefactor' who could come up with the 4 million quid we still owe STF that would free up half a million quid a year right there.

Even if a derby defeat does not constitute a crisis ( which it doesn't ) as another poster pointed out our recent form has not been brilliant and its something we need to address .... its a near certainty that 4th place in the league will get you European football next season, we are still in a position where we can do that but our form has to improve. It looks like a straight shoot out between us and the Yams for that 4th place.

[Waxy]

No matter what you have to lose a derby now and again. Even if your the better club the law of averages always chucks a few the other way.

[greenpaper55]

I think you have to take a longer view of where we are as a club, judge the team and manager at the end of the season and not just after a poor run of form, teams can blow hot and cold-look what happened to Liverpool last night ! it should never have happened but that's football.

[southern hibby]

Right I’ve got no inside knowledge and don’t know when all this nonsense was suppose to happen in Portugal but here’s my 10p worth.

I was in Portugal for the game and up to Hibs substitutions we were well organised, slick and looking good going forward. The team looked balanced and decent.

Now if these Portuguese problems are causing problems for our team on the pitch WHY did it not cause problems over in Portugal for that game?

For me if there are problems these have raised their head since we have returned. I for one think our balance was not right for the game and players playing out of position and basics not getting addressed all season. Teams scoring from crosses going to the back post and what do we do in training for throw ins? We need to sort these issues out and it needs sorted now as they have ( in my eyes) not been addressed by the Hibs training staff or if they have they are not being implemented by the players.

GGTTH

[hibbie02]

Absolutely agree with the OP .... this is not a crisis. That game on Sunday for all that we didn't play well on a poor pitch which is about as wide as my back garden could still well have gone our way.

There are a couple of points being made though which are worth consideration:

Our crowds were very good last season and are even better this season, we consistently make Hampden, so one has to wonder where the hell all the money is going. We are the 5th best payers in the league so we aren't busting the bank on wages. The question has to be asked, if we were getting our historic average of the last 30 years of about 10,000 and weren't getting to the latter stages of cup competitions just how skint would we be now? Its a shame we cant find a 'mystery benefactor' who could come up with the 4 million quid we still owe STF that would free up half a million quid a year right there.

Even if a derby defeat does not constitute a crisis ( which it doesn't ) as another poster pointed out our recent form has not been brilliant and its something we need to address .... its a near certainty that 4th place in the league will get you European football next season, we are still in a position where we can do that but our form has to improve. It looks like a straight shoot out between us and the Yams for that 4th place.

Totally agree. All the pre-match hype about how Hertz were throwing the kitchen sink into the transfer window to try and ensure they beat us. All the laughing about how Hertz season is defined by beating us in the Cup. Then they scrape a spawny win and this place goes into the exact same meltdown we laughed at them about. We need to improve the squad and we are back in the big league for the first time in years. We are still building. My only concern is the traditional new year slump where we blow all the good work in the early parts of the season. If we get through the next few weeks with a few wins, then we should be in a position to secure a European place. If not we we slip back into apathy.

[Onion]

Our world does not revolve around Hearts and one incident where the ball barely crossed the line !!

Hibs are a work in progress with room for improvement, especially up front. We need to add a genuine goal threat and just as importantly avoid losing all our strongest characters. Cummings, Stokes and McGinn are all strong individuals with winning mentality. To lose them all, leaves a huge void at the club.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

This is the key underlying point for me. Losing to Hearts per se is pain in the pisser but not a crisis.

However, how anyone can say our results over the last month or 2 have been satisfactory is beyond me and, besides the usual OTT froth and slavers that come after every defeat, I think this defeat might be the straw that's starting to strain the camel's back for some and a look at the form table indicates why.

This sums up the current situation for me, its not just about 1 game.

[snedzuk]

Absolutely agree with the OP .... this is not a crisis. That game on Sunday for all that we didn't play well on a poor pitch which is about as wide as my back garden could still well have gone our way.

There are a couple of points being made though which are worth consideration:

Our crowds were very good last season and are even better this season, we consistently make Hampden, so one has to wonder where the hell all the money is going. We are the 5th best payers in the league so we aren't busting the bank on wages. The question has to be asked, if we were getting our historic average of the last 30 years of about 10,000 and weren't getting to the latter stages of cup competitions just how skint would we be now? Its a shame we cant find a 'mystery benefactor' who could come up with the 4 million quid we still owe STF that would free up half a million quid a year right there.

Even if a derby defeat does not constitute a crisis ( which it doesn't ) as another poster pointed out our recent form has not been brilliant and its something we need to address .... its a near certainty that 4th place in the league will get you European football next season, we are still in a position where we can do that but our form has to improve. It looks like a straight shoot out between us and the Yams for that 4th place.

We seem to be miles away from leenan dempsters squad ideal which was a player in every position, a reserve in every position, a development player in every position plus 3 'utility'.

If we had to fund that now then where would the cash be but that was the stated squad aim to be set up in Stubbs first season.

My view the cash has gone on our management team and a few marquee wages leaving us struggling for quality in what remains of the window but well see in the next week.

[Jones28]

And that was nobody's fault other than the officials. No idea why you are bringing hearts defensive record into a thread about Hibs current form...bit weird and obsessive

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

It's comparing the forms of two similar clubs.

[Stevie Reid]

Definitely a bit of perspective is needed here. Folk keep banging on about the horrendous run that we're on, the two wins in nine league games is getting trotted out a lot - though the fact that only three defeats have taken place in that time is never mentioned. Incidentally those defeats occurred against the teams that finished 2nd, 3rd and 4th in the SPL last season.

We are at the end of January and we have only lost five games - and just once away from home. We lost our fifth league game on 16 December. We have won nine league games - we won our ninth league game on 23 December. Out of curiosity I decided to look back on our previous four seasons in the SPL to compare - if people really want to see horrendous runs they should look back at those seasons:

2010 - 11
Lost five league games by 23 October 2010
Won nine league games by 1 March 2011

2011 -12
Lost five league games by 1 October 2011
Only won 8 league games

2012 - 13
Lost five league games by 24 November 2012
Won nine league games by 29 December 2012

2013 - 14
Lost five league games by 3 November 2013
Only won 8 league games

Yes the points total from the last round of fixtures isn't great, and we have some very tough games coming up - but we are nowhere near like being the basket case that many on here would have you believe. We are currently on track for 60 points, which would have seen us 4th last season.

This is the first tough period we've been through for a while, certainly the first under Lennon, and I'm really disappointed at many people's reactions - we don't always have to make a drama out of a crisis. It's funny how many people took offence at Levein's "natural order" comment, yet there are folk on here who will have you believe that we're never more than a couple of results away from disaster, that crisis is our default setting, and make predictions of our demise very regularly.

Yes, we need to start picking up more points in this round of fixtures, but we're five points clear in 4th and are closer to Celtic at the top than we are to Ross County at the bottom. Obviously people are entitled to ask questions when things are not going so well, that's what discussion boards are all about - it's the catastrophising that does my head in.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Definitely a bit of perspective is needed here. Folk keep banging on about the horrendous run that we're on, the two wins in nine league games is getting trotted out a lot - though the fact that only three defeats have taken place in that time is never mentioned. Incidentally those defeats occurred against the teams that finished 2nd, 3rd and 4th in the SPL last season.

We are at the end of January and we have only lost five games - and just once away from home. We lost our fifth league game on 16 December. We have won nine league games - we won our ninth league game on 23 December. Out of curiosity I decided to look back on our previous four seasons in the SPL to compare - if people really want to see horrendous runs they should look back at those seasons:

2010 - 11
Lost five league games by 23 October 2010
Won nine league games by 1 March 2011

2011 -12
Lost five league games by 1 October 2011
Only won 8 league games

2012 - 13
Lost five league games by 24 November 2012
Won nine league games by 29 December 2012

2013 - 14
Lost five league games by 3 November 2013
Only won 8 league games

Yes the points total from the last round of fixtures isn't great, and we have some very tough games coming up - but we are nowhere near like being the basket case that many on here would have you believe. We are currently on track for 60 points, which would have seen us 4th last season.

This is the first tough period we've been through for a while, certainly the first under Lennon, and I'm really disappointed at many people's reactions - we don't always have to make a drama out of a crisis. It's funny how many people took offence at Levein's "natural order" comment, yet there are folk on here who will have you believe that we're never more than a couple of results away from disaster, that crisis is our default setting, and make predictions of our demise very regularly.

Yes, we need to start picking up more points in this round of fixtures, but we're five points clear in 4th and are closer to Celtic at the top than we are to Ross County at the bottom. Obviously people are entitled to ask questions when things are not going so well, that's what discussion boards are all about - it's the catastrophising that does my head in.

I agree with all of this Stevie, with the caveat that it cant be denied we could be picking up more points from games we dominate and its something we need to rectify. The only thing about the 'natural order' comment which has made it 'a thing' this time is the source of the comment.

As fan banter it can be dismissed .... When it comes from the club itself that's different. It was nothing short of an arrogant dismissal of our club and our players from another club and that's something we cant and shouldn't tolerate ... there are times its right to take offence and this is one of them. Everybody at Easter Road should be champing at the bit for the 10th of March to come around. The best way to get ready is to give everything in the fixtures leading up to it.

[Stevie Reid]

I agree with all of this Stevie, with the caveat that it cant be denied we could be picking up more points from games we dominate and its something we need to rectify. The only thing about the 'natural order' comment which has made it 'a thing' this time is the source of the comment.

As fan banter it can be dismissed .... When it comes from the club itself that's different. It was nothing short of an arrogant dismissal of our club and our players from another club and that's something we cant and shouldn't tolerate ... there are times its right to take offence and this is one of them. Everybody at Easter Road should be champing at the bit for the 10th of March to come around. The best way to get ready is to give everything in the fixtures leading up to it.

I don't disagree with any of that, Levein has provided us even more motivation for next time round - and Lennon alluded to that himself.

My point, possibly not articulated very well, was that some of our own fans are just as disrespectful towards Lennon as Levein was. And you're correct, anyone with an ounce of humility would never make such comments - but then it is Levein that we're talking about.

[Hermit Crab]

Losing the derby is not a crisis in itself. The fact we have only 2 win in the last 10 is not a crisis either, it is however worrying form. We are not scoring goals which is a big concern. 5 games in the next 2 and a bit weeks, if we come out of these games still 2 wins from 15 games then theres a crisis and that is very much manager sacking form. I'm not saying NL should be sacked, just pointing out that its a results based business and that could be enough for the board. Top 6 is the absolute minimum requirement for us this season, if we continue the way we are going we wont even make that!

[Stevie Reid]

Losing the derby is not a crisis in itself. The fact we have only 2 win in the last 10 is not a crisis either, it is however worrying form. We are not scoring goals which is a big concern. 5 games in the next 2 and a bit weeks, if we come out of these games still 2 wins from 15 games then theres a crisis and that is very much manager sacking form. I'm not saying NL should be sacked, just pointing out that its a results based business and that could be enough for the board. Top 6 is the absolute minimum requirement for us this season, if we continue the way we are going we wont even make that!

I very much doubt that the board are even remotely thinking of removing Lennon as manager, nor would be in the scenario that you've just outlined.

By the way, if you want a really scary stat (and I agree that we don't score enough btw) - we've already scored as many goals as we did the season we went down.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I very much doubt that the board are even remotely thinking of removing Lennon as manager, nor would be in the scenario that you've just outlined.

By the way, if you want a really scary stat (and I agree that we don't score enough btw) - we've already scored as many goals as we did the season we went down.

Youre on fire with your stats today Stevie - not got work to do...?!

Agree with what you say - weve had some lickings at tynie in the not too distant past, that game on sunday was a slog fest between two very even teams separated by one goal and one terrible refereeing decision over two games at tynie.

Also, its nothing new from Hearts, remember anderton and his docksiders comment, and of course mercer just plain trying to out us out of business.

I dont deny that hearts have a better derby record than us, but i really do think that as a club, they know that they should be a much bigger club than us - theyve had every advantage over the decades, and yet here they are, still battling away with us, the outsider club. Anyone who has to remind thenselves of how big and successful they are, probably isnt.

Levein will go down in history as the worst Scotland manager ever, as a player who won nothing, amd was part of a sqaud that committed the biggest choking job in modern scottish fitba history, and who has so far won nothing as a manager.

Added to the fact, that his managerial reputatiob is defensive, negative and overly physical. And he failed massively in England (ironically at a club in which lennon was a key part of a successful team).

The man, amd the club, are the epitome of underachievers.

Yes they habe won more cups than us. But we habe won the same number of league titles, and hibs are more recent. We hold the attendancd records for biggest crowd, and highest average crowd, and have achieved far more in Europe than they ever will. And in our lifetime, weve won the same number of cups.

All while fighting that pernicious establishment, conquering enormous prejudice, and overcoming social, religious and ethnic division. They should be so much bigger amd better than us, and it kills them they arent. So **** them.

Agree also about some perspective being needed - we are doing ok, bit could be better - if anhone thinks lennon doesnt know that, they are off their heads. Can he fix it? I think he probably can.

[Not In The Know]

Youre on fire with your stats today Stevie - not got work to do...?!

Agree with what you say - weve had some lickings at tynie in the not too distant past, that game on sunday was a slog fest between two very even teams separated by one goal and one terrible refereeing decision over two games at tynie.

Also, its nothing new from Hearts, remember anderton and his docksiders comment, and of course mercer just plain trying to out us out of business.

I dont deny that hearts have a better derby record than us, but i really do think that as a club, they know that they should be a much bigger club than us - theyve had every advantage over the decades, and yet here they are, still battling away with us, the outsider club. Anyone who has to remind thenselves of how big and successful they are, probably isnt.

Levein will go down in history as the worst Scotland manager ever, as a player who won nothing, amd was part of a sqaud that committed the biggest choking job in modern scottish fitba history, and who has so far won nothing as a manager.

Added to the fact, that his managerial reputatiob is defensive, negative and overly physical. And he failed massively in England (ironically at a club in which lennon was a key part of a successful team).

The man, amd the club, are the epitome of underachievers.

Yes they habe won more cups than us. But we habe won the same number of league titles, and hibs are more recent. We hold the attendancd records for biggest crowd, and highest average crowd, and have achieved far more in Europe than they ever will. And in our lifetime, weve won the same number of cups.

All while fighting that pernicious establishment, conquering enormous prejudice, and overcoming social, religious and ethnic division. They should be so much bigger amd better than us, and it kills them they arent.


Steady on...

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Steady on...

Maybe an exaggeration! But given historical starting point amd what we have had to contend with versus them, they should be. That they aren't is where this insecurity comes from.

[stantonhibby]

Youre on fire with your stats today Stevie - not got work to do...?!

Agree with what you say - weve had some lickings at tynie in the not too distant past, that game on sunday was a slog fest between two very even teams separated by one goal and one terrible refereeing decision over two games at tynie.

Also, its nothing new from Hearts, remember anderton and his docksiders comment, and of course mercer just plain trying to out us out of business.

I dont deny that hearts have a better derby record than us, but i really do think that as a club, they know that they should be a much bigger club than us - theyve had every advantage over the decades, and yet here they are, still battling away with us, the outsider club. Anyone who has to remind thenselves of how big and successful they are, probably isnt.

Levein will go down in history as the worst Scotland manager ever, as a player who won nothing, amd was part of a sqaud that committed the biggest choking job in modern scottish fitba history, and who has so far won nothing as a manager.

Added to the fact, that his managerial reputatiob is defensive, negative and overly physical. And he failed massively in England (ironically at a club in which lennon was a key part of a successful team).

The man, amd the club, are the epitome of underachievers.

Yes they habe won more cups than us. But we habe won the same number of league titles, and hibs are more recent. We hold the attendancd records for biggest crowd, and highest average crowd, and have achieved far more in Europe than they ever will. And in our lifetime, weve won the same number of cups.

All while fighting that pernicious establishment, conquering enormous prejudice, and overcoming social, religious and ethnic division. They should be so much bigger amd better than us, and it kills them they arent. So **** them.

Agree also about some perspective being needed - we are doing ok, bit could be better - if anhone thinks lennon doesnt know that, they are off their heads. Can he fix it? I think he probably can.

Think there league titles are more recent (59-60) unless you're counting our championship win last season !

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Think there league titles are more recent (59-60) unless you're counting our championship win last season !

I mean that three of our four have come since fhe war, but i believe two of their four.came before ww1 - maybe should jabe reworded as one more, more recently / in the postwar era etc

[stantonhibby]

I mean that three of our four have come since fhe war, but i believe two of their four.came before ww1 - maybe should jabe reworded as one more, more recently / in the postwar era etc

Ah ok....i get you.

[eastcoasthibby]

Its not a crisis but a couple more poor results and it will be, there are a number of things that just aren't happening every game these days .... And its down to the manager and players to fix, the manager to get the team prepared and the right selections. The players to switch on and get themselves ready to deliver on the pitch, whether working hard in training, mentally being on it, working hard and doing their jobs on match days.
From what I have watched all season we have been very hot and cold during games, not concentrating whether it be a keeper, defender, midfielder or forward, they all switch off during games or make bad decisions and the consequences are loss of a goal or a good missed opportunity ... Our inconsistency and lack of focus for 90 minutes or however long on the park is a real weakness.
We have good players, some think they are better than they are, some don't apply themselves properly and others have limited ability, whatever applies the right attitude and desire to play well should always bee there, you see it in almost every team we play, bar none, their application is always there, I can honestly say that in almost every game I question some of our players application and want to give all they can and that's not singling anyone out.
My concerns exist around all of this and perhaps the anger/frustration about Sunday is that a lot of the players showed these features in that game, why ? And the bigger question is why can't they apply themselves in every game ...I know some do and its possible to have off days, but our levels of inconsistency seems beyond what would seem understandable. It raises the question of why are our players like this, and to be fair I think that possibly 4-5 give their all every time they play, the others I think don't ... Only they will know why at the time !!
It also may be NL in his team selection and training, shot shy team, short corners, can't cross a ball, freekicks poor, matching runs,finishing, defenders switching off, chopping and changing the team structure, ..I'll leave it there ..
While this all seems pretty negative, we have a squad of players with good quality and ability, but we can't put it together on a pitch for any length of time, its a half, 20 minutes, or some other length of time but never a full game, less chance being 2,3,4 games on the bounce. (That I can remember)
Finally, how does the way certain players behave, what they get away with, their professionalism, commitment, impact on the other players ?
if its not sorted over the next 3-4 games then it will be a real slide and problem,if unchecked a crisis
, so an interesting time in the very near future. Which needs the whole lot of the coaching, management and players to get it sorted out, forget about blaming each other and take responsibility for what they can do.
As fans we need to do the same !!

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Correct Not winning in 9 is a crisis particularly for Hearts as it’s their benchmark.

[147lothian]

I'm as gutted as anyone about the result on Sunday but to call to call it a crisis is OTT, a scrappy game on a tattie field that could have gone either way, gets settled in the end with a very scrappy goal, this doesn't make a crisis.

A better benchmark of how we are doing in our first season back in the spl is our league position were sitting 4th, Lennon is very good manager for me who is doing a good job with what's available to him, a legitimate question can be asked as to why he's not been given more funds given our attendances this season and last, im sure he had other target signings in mind, I however have full faith in NL to make the most of what's available to him, the team is going through a transition phase and it might well take a bit of time for the team to settle so patience is required but I for one have faith in the way the club is currently being run