Cole stockton "blacking it up"

[Scouse Hibee]

have you been expecting someone on here to give Jamie walker or Djoum a bell to find out for you?

Nah Jamie Walker is white.

[pacorosssco]

Phew. Thank god you’re not offended. Maybe consider why black people may find blacking up offensive.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2014/10/29/7089591/dont-get-whats-wrong-with-blackface-heres-why-its-so-offensive

As a scotsmen who belives in independce i find it offence the royal coat of arms has the unicorn in chains and the national anthem had a verse of squashing the scots. Many tribes paint faces are they being disrespectful. No they are not.

[lapsedhibee]

Magic so I'll dress up as dead Madeline McCann then? After all, her parents won't ever find out right?

You can't dress up as a female, because you've oppressed them for centuries. It'd be disrespectful.

PS How do you know she's dead?

[Scouse Hibee]

Magic so I'll dress up as dead Madeline McCann then? After all, her parents won't ever find out right?

I didn't realise she was dead.

[majorhibs]

Phew. Thank god you’re not offended. Maybe consider why black people may find blacking up offensive.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2014/10/29/7089591/dont-get-whats-wrong-with-blackface-heres-why-its-so-offensive

Permanently seeking what could possibly be offensive somewhere in certain oblique circumstances. Crack on zoomers.

[neil7908]

You can't dress up as a female, because you've oppressed them for centuries. It'd be disrespectful.

PS How do you know she's dead?

I notice you've not answered my question - you ok with that?

[SlickShoes]

It's like Jurassic Park in here

[neil7908]

I didn't realise she was dead.

Jesus let's not move onto another controversial topic!

[Scouse Hibee]

Jesus let's not move onto another controversial topic!

You started it.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Nah Jamie Walker is white.

That’s just a mask he wears :agree:

[lapsedhibee]

I notice you've not answered my question - you ok with that?

I don't mind if you dress up as Madeleine McCann, no. Not. At. All.

[neil7908]

I don't mind if you dress up as Madeleine McCann, no. Not. At. All.

Fair play. Some might though and maybe worth considering what others think as well.

[TheReg!]

You know what pisses black people off is white people being offended for them, virtue signaling big time!

PC gone mad! White Privilege 😂 yeah stacks of white privilege in Niddrie, Birdiehouse etc eh!

[monktonharp]

I went out for Halloween a few weeks back dressed as a nun and I definitely hope the media don't get a hold of those photos.Ummmm. So, that is what you did. Did you do this out of devilment, or are you some sort of Anti-Catholic? which? what exactly did that have to do, in your mind regarding Halloween ?

[pacorosssco]

Stil no word on whether his black team mates took offence to his efforts to portray a black guy?

Worse to define or label a team mate black?? Hes a team mate full stop no??.

[Dropkick Murphy]

Oppresion is wrong. Fancy dress is fancy dress.Some dutch fans who are white paint face and wear ruud guillit tops to games. He won them only major trophy. Is that badAs I stated, the historical fact that white people painted their faces black as a form of oppression is what makes doing it today questionable, regardless of innocent intentions. 'Oppression is oppression, fancy dress is fancy dress' is an oversimplification.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Scouse Hibee]

Worse to define or label a team mate black?? Hes a team mate full stop no??.

Yes I done that deliberately, if you look back I first asked the question just describing team mates. I added the black to see if it would get a reaction, predictably it did!

[silverhibee]

The Sun all over the story now.

[pacorosssco]

As I stated, the historical fact that white people painted their faces black as a form of oppression is what makes doing it today questionable, regardless of innocent intentions. 'Oppression is oppression, fancy dress is fancy dress' is an oversimplification.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

History tells many oppressed. Im not being flipent but mr t i doubt would be upset in any way by a white man dressing up as him in fun. All colours have suffered in time by those in power and they use divide to own gain. Fancy dress is just that.

[pacorosssco]

Yes I done that deliberately, if you look back I first asked the question just describing team mates. I added the black to see if it would get a reaction, predictably it did! clever post and point. Sorry to spoil

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Green. Not sure I get your point though?

Well, if someone has decided to go to a fancy dress party as Mr T what colour would you expect them to portray the character as?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Yes I done that deliberately, if you look back I first asked the question just describing team mates. I added the black to see if it would get a reaction, predictably it did!

No really - I saw both and realised you were getting impatient for an answer.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Well, if someone has decided to go to a fancy dress party as Mr T what colour would you expect them to portray the character as?

BA Baracus is the character?

[pacorosssco]

Well, if someone has decided to go to a fancy dress party as Mr T what colour would you expect them to portray the character as?

Sir i salute u

[matty_f]

Not seen this mentioned on this thread but frankly I'm appalled that nobody had pointed out that I'd he's dressing up as a character from the A Team then it's B.A. Baracus that he's dressed up as. Mr T was the actor.

[Scouse Hibee]

clever post and point. Sorry to spoil

👍

[Scouse Hibee]

No really - I saw both and realised you were getting impatient for an answer.

Eh? Not talking about you. Talking about the question about using the term black which I got as I knew I would.

[Scouse Hibee]

BA Baracus is the character?

You mean Mr T is actually white!!!!!!

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

BA Baracus is the character?

The OP seemed to think it was Mr T, I've not looked at the pic so don't know if he's trying to portray BA or Mr T, my point is still valid though.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Eh? Not talking about you. Talking about the question about using the term black which I got as I knew I would.

Aye from me! Made no difference to me that you’d added a word into your question. I didn’t want you getting all uppity like the Cat was cos no one answered his question about a mask.

[My_Wife_Camille]

Well, if someone has decided to go to a fancy dress party as Mr T what colour would you expect them to portray the character as?
Comparing black people to ogres. Good job

[Danderhall Hibs]

You mean Mr T is actually white!!!!!!

:agree: wears a BA mask.

[patlowe]

You know what pisses black people off is white people being offended for them, virtue signaling big time!

PC gone mad! White Privilege 😂 yeah stacks of white privilege in Niddrie, Birdiehouse etc eh!

Responding to people questioning why something might be taken as offensive is not the same as being offended. I feel like its the anti-PC folk who are the most worked up on this thread.

Re Niddrie etc, there are huge inequalities in our society which white people will be among those bearing the brunt of, particularly in the kinds of areas you mention. I am no less bothered about that, it's just not what's being discussed.

'Virtue signalling' - I can understand why people think that, which is why I normally shy away from the politics online. Seems I am right to - will keep to the football in future!

[Scouse Hibee]

Aye from me! Made no difference to me that you’d added a word into your question. I didn’t want you getting all uppity like the Cat was cos no one answered his question about a mask.

No it was from Pacorosssco, it was him who questioned my wording.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Comparing black people to ogres. Good job

Have a word with yourself eh!

[Danderhall Hibs]

Not seen this mentioned on this thread but frankly I'm appalled that nobody had pointed out that I'd he's dressing up as a character from the A Team then it's B.A. Baracus that he's dressed up as. Mr T was the actor.

Too late to the party mate.

[Scouse Hibee]

:agree: wears a BA mask.

A BA mask, is he a fireman?

[Danderhall Hibs]

A BA mask, is he a fireman?

A pilot, ironically.

[Danderhall Hibs]

No it was from Pacorosssco

👍🏿

[matty_f]

A pilot, ironically.

:faf:

[matty_f]

Too late to the party mate.

I was doing my make up. It's Shawshank Redemption day at work tomorrow.

[Scouse Hibee]

I'm bowing out now, time for bed. This thread has demonstrated all that I like about.net, many differing opinions on a very emotive subject thrashed about with some humour thrown in too. 👍

[Dropkick Murphy]

No it was from Pacorosssco, it was him who questioned my wording.

Think Pacorossco was doing it in a way to mock people who are easily offended. Nobody was actually offended by your use of the term black.

[Thecat23]

Aye from me! Made no difference to me that you’d added a word into your question. I didn’t want you getting all uppity like the Cat was cos no one answered his question about a mask.

Because it can’t be answered, and I find it hilarious how quiet everyone went to dodge it. I find this whole this brilliant!

[-Jonesy-]

I pity the fool to be honest.

Ha!!

[Thecat23]

I was going to go as the A-Team van but as I’m not black I’ll have to settle for Faces white car. Never mind he seemed to always pull.. **** wait is that even allowed now??

[cheltenhamhibee]

The historical context of white people painting their face black to imitate a black person is that it was a form entertainment that sought to reinforce false negative stereotypes of black inferiority. Thats's what makes it distasteful and offensive to people today. The same context does not exist in the opposite direction. I am not saying the hearts player is a racist, although this thread is evidence to the fact that he could have chosen a better costume, I just feel that some are missing the reason why certain people find the whole thing to be distasteful.

He was dressIng up as Mr T, that's hardly seeking to reinforce false negative stereotypes of black inferiority, if it does not exist the other way around surely that makes it hypocritical ? Why don't the PC brigade get on their high horse when done the opposite way ? There is no place in this world we live in for racism, no place whatsever and I find it abhorrent, but I also don't think there is any racist connotations at all by Stocktons choice, ill advised perhaps but hardly racist, some will disagree with me some won't, that's their perogative

[Dropkick Murphy]

He was dressIng up as Mr T, that's hardly seeking to reinforce false negative stereotypes of black inferiority, if it does not exist the other way around surely that makes it hypocritical ? Why don't the PC brigade get on their high horse when done the opposite way ? There is no place in this world we live in for racism, no place whatsever and I find it abhorrent, but I also don't think there is any racist connotations at all by Stocktons choice, ill advised perhaps but hardly racist, some will disagree with me some won't, that's their perogativeI never said that stockton dressing up as Mr T was seeking to reinforce negative stereotypes of black inferiority. I said that that was the historical context of white people painting their face black. There is no long standing history of it black people 'whiting up' as a form of oppression so that's why it's entirely different when it happens the other way. Not hypocracy. Different context.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[huggie1875]

is this still going on must be a slow news day

[Thecat23]

I love when a tread comes together!!! 😎

[LaMotta]

I love when a tread comes together!!! ��

That's a tyred joke mate :greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

Threads along these lines crop up with unfailing regularity.

You would think that the people who post and moan about "PC gone mad" would have grasped the point by now, but given they post those sort of replies every time then you just have to assume they don't have the smarts to actually take on board the salient point.

Which is, the world has moved on. And they've not. And that's their problem. And they're going to find the world a smaller and smaller place as their dinosaur, unreconstructed views just keep getting challenged. If you're not smart enough to recognise you're in the wrong then you shouldn't blame those who get it, for it.

[SRHibs]

Threads along these lines crop up with unfailing regularity.

You would think that the people who post and moan about "PC gone mad" would have grasped the point by now, but given they post those sort of replies every time then you just have to assume they don't have the smarts to actually take on board the salient point.

Which is, the world has moved on. And they've not. And that's their problem. And they're going to find the world a smaller and smaller place as their dinosaur, unreconstructed views just keep getting challenged. If you're not smart enough to recognise you're in the wrong then you shouldn't blame those who get it, for it.

Yeah, people with different opinions - fairly moderate ones at that - are definitely idiots. What a ***** post.

Let’s not have a reasoned discussion. That would be too difficult. Better to dismiss everyone who doesn’t agree with you, or your ‘World’, as morons.

[My_Wife_Camille]

Threads along these lines crop up with unfailing regularity.

You would think that the people who post and moan about "PC gone mad" would have grasped the point by now, but given they post those sort of replies every time then you just have to assume they don't have the smarts to actually take on board the salient point.

Which is, the world has moved on. And they've not. And that's their problem. And they're going to find the world a smaller and smaller place as their dinosaur, unreconstructed views just keep getting challenged. If you're not smart enough to recognise you're in the wrong then you shouldn't blame those who get it, for it.
Best post of the night:top marks

[Mibbes Aye]

Yeah, people with different opinions - fairly moderate ones at that - are definitely idiots. What a ***** post.

Let’s not have a reasoned discussion. That would be too difficult. Better to dismiss everyone who doesn’t agree with you, or your ‘World’, as morons.

Right you are :agree:

[SRHibs]

Right you are :agree:

What’s life like up there, looking down on the proles?

[Mibbes Aye]

What’s life like up there, looking down on the proles?

Don't see the need for that, I'm a normal guy who grew up in a normal background and lives pretty normally.

I get exasperated when stuff like this comes up and some people roll out the "PC gone mad" or "some people just want to be annoyed" schtick.

Why do I get annoyed? Because I think it's lazy and ignorant. I think some of the people who post it are well capable of working out why it's lazy, and some just can't be bothered.

That's not looking down on anyone.

[SRHibs]

Don't see the need for that, I'm a normal guy who grew up in a normal background and lives pretty normally.

I get exasperated when stuff like this comes up and some people roll out the "PC gone mad" or "some people just want to be annoyed" schtick.

Why do I get annoyed? Because I think it's lazy and ignorant. I think some of the people who post it are well capable of working out why it's lazy, and some just can't be bothered.

That's not looking down on anyone.
I don’t think what I said is any more insulting than assuming anyone who doesn’t agree with your viewpoint is lazy, ignorant, stupid, or all of the above.

I’ve read enough about cultural (mis)appropriation to have a relatively informed (but apparently racist) opinion. Like I said previously, I’m all for not offending large portions of a culture/ethnicity if it was shown that people were indeed insulted by costumes like Mr T (let’s please not conflate this with Blackface which is obviously racist) but I’ve not really seen much evidence online, or anecdotally.

As someone duly noted though, it’s not for the white community to decide what black people should or should not be offended by. On that note I’m bowing out of this thread it’s not headed anywhere good l.

[Mibbes Aye]

I don’t think what I said is any more insulting than assuming anyone who doesn’t agree with your viewpoint is lazy, ignorant, stupid, or all of the above.

I’ve read enough about cultural (mis)appropriation to have a relatively informed (but apparently racist) opinion. Like I said previously, I’m all for not offending large portions of a culture/ethnicity if it was shown that people were indeed insulted by costumes like Mr T (let’s please not conflate this with Blackface which is obviously racist) but I’ve not really seen much evidence online, or anecdotally.

As someone duly noted though, it’s not for the white community to decide what black people should or should not be offended by. On that note I’m bowing out of this thread it’s not headed anywhere good l.

Fair do's, keep posting :aok:

[pacorosssco]

Threads along these lines crop up with unfailing regularity.

You would think that the people who post and moan about "PC gone mad" would have grasped the point by now, but given they post those sort of replies every time then you just have to assume they don't have the smarts to actually take on board the salient point.

Which is, the world has moved on. And they've not. And that's their problem. And they're going to find the world a smaller and smaller place as their dinosaur, unreconstructed views just keep getting challenged. If you're not smart enough to recognise you're in the wrong then you shouldn't blame those who get it, for it.

Ok then. Given the subject in this thread. Please explain ' the point' cause if you strip away PC gone mad moan as you put it. A white hearts footballer should never dress up as Mr T as he makes world a smaller place?? And hes not smart enough to know?? Kids play with toy guns are parents laughing at billions who die by bullet. World has moved on?? Valid arguement its never been worse. Dinoasaur view is fancy dress is for the unsmart. Has a black man no right to dress up as elvis??.

My skin does not define me nor restrict me.

[Vault Boy]

I think the fact that this issue has been so controversial, even the small sample on this thread on Hibs net, means it's probably best for someone in the public eye to avoid blacking up.

If I went out dressed up with brown paint on my face to mimic a black person, I'd feel pretty embarrassed, but maybe that's just me.

[Mibbes Aye]

Ok then. Given the subject in this thread. Please explain ' the point' cause if you strip away PC gone mad moan as you put it. A white hearts footballer should never dress up as Mr T as he makes world a smaller place?? And hes not smart enough to know?? Kids play with toy guns are parents laughing at billions who die by bullet. World has moved on?? Valid arguement its never been worse. Dinoasaur view is fancy dress is for the unsmart. Has a black man no right to dress up as elvis??.

My skin does not define me nor restrict me.

I genuinely really don't know.

Is it contextual?

[Mibbes Aye]

Ok then. Given the subject in this thread. Please explain ' the point' cause if you strip away PC gone mad moan as you put it. A white hearts footballer should never dress up as Mr T as he makes world a smaller place?? And hes not smart enough to know?? Kids play with toy guns are parents laughing at billions who die by bullet. World has moved on?? Valid arguement its never been worse. Dinoasaur view is fancy dress is for the unsmart. Has a black man no right to dress up as elvis??.

My skin does not define me nor restrict me.

Should have said, good point, well put.

[SirDavidsNapper]

Regardless, in today's society and someone who's in the public eye, it's rather distasteful to paint yourself black

PC gone mad

[IGRIGI]

It's this desperation to be offended and 1 up other social justice warriors that has me cheering on Trump.

[cocteautwin]

That's it. I'm chucking my "What choo talking about Willis" fancy dress costume in the bin . . . . . . .

[Phil MaGlass]

Theres always someone that will be offended by something.

[MacGruber]

If I want to fancy dress as the incredible hulk can I paint myself green 🤔

[Bristolhibby]

So only white personalities can be copied by white people?

What if a black person "whites" up?

There’s a whole film about it.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTY3OTg2OTM3OV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwNzY5OTA3._V1_U Y1200_CR90,0,630,1200_AL_.jpg

J

[Hibrandenburg]

Personally speaking I think he's an idiot. In this day and age most folk know its at the least 'controversial' to do what he's done. There's any number of characters he could have imitated without this. I'm sure most of us would have steered well clear of Stockton's choice.

Maybe he's a big Mr T fan? :dunno:

[Doh Rae Me]

That's it. I'm chucking my "What choo talking about Willis" fancy dress costume in the bin . . . . . . .

I'm shocked and offended.
That's shortist.

[we are hibs]

I couldn't imagine living such a sheltered life that you find this offensive.

[mcohibs]

Pretty sure Martin Boyle did the same thing last year when he dressed up as Tupac (don't know how to attach the pic). Where was the outrage then?

If this doesn't offend the multiple black players in the Hearts team, why are we pretending to be offended by it?

[lyonhibs]

If nothing else, the fact that a Hearts player dressing up as Mr T for a night out has generated 11 pages of debate on .net shows that there must not be enough actual football related things for us to squabble about.

An unintended consequence of not being ***** I guess. I say bring back Rowan Vine and McGivern so we can all focus our righteous ire on them!!!

[Michael]

There’s a whole film about it.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTY3OTg2OTM3OV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwNzY5OTA3._V1_U Y1200_CR90,0,630,1200_AL_.jpg

J

Ha, I love White Chicks.

Also, Robert Downey Jr. was black in Tropic Thunder.

[easty]

Threads along these lines crop up with unfailing regularity.

You would think that the people who post and moan about "PC gone mad" would have grasped the point by now, but given they post those sort of replies every time then you just have to assume they don't have the smarts to actually take on board the salient point.

Which is, the world has moved on. And they've not. And that's their problem. And they're going to find the world a smaller and smaller place as their dinosaur, unreconstructed views just keep getting challenged. If you're not smart enough to recognise you're in the wrong then you shouldn't blame those who get it, for it.

The high and mighty have spoken.

[Baader]

Blacking up? Best avoided. We are not living in the 1950s.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Comparing black people to ogres. Good job

Reading this thread, im convinced you are just at the wind-up.

Nobody could be as willfully, painfully right-on as that in real life.

[WhileTheChief..]

He’s not ‘blacking up’, he was in fancy dress!!

How can folk not tell the difference??

[Pretty Boy]

Pretty sure Martin Boyle did the same thing last year when he dressed up as Tupac (don't know how to attach the pic). Where was the outrage then?

If this doesn't offend the multiple black players in the Hearts team, why are we pretending to be offended by it?

Do Hearts black players speak for the entire black (or any race for that matter) population?

I'm Scottish and I don't find the word 'jock' offensive, likewise the derivative 'sweaty sock' and whilst I find jokes about tight fistedness unbelievably unoriginal, boring and unfunny they don't offend me. I don't believe that allows me to call other people 'darkie', 'chinky' or 'paki' though. Nor does it allow me to make jokes about witch doctors or, topically, paint myself black. The reason being that just because I'm not offended by words used to describe, or jokes about, my ethnicity doesn't mean others don't find such actions inappropriate or offensive.

Not being able to do any of those things has no meaningful impact on my life. Having to say 'I'm having a Chinese for tea' isn't really a hassle.

The argument about 'choosing to be offended' fails on many levels. Primarily because we all, to some extent, have a choice in what we are offended by. If I started cracking jokes about child abuse maybe some on here who aren't offended by Cole Stocktons choice of costume would be by that. Can I justify my actions by saying 'stop choosing to be offended'? Secondly I don't view my personal opinions on morality as the be all and end all. Ultimately whether I find racism, homophobia or sexism offensive is irrelevant. It's far more important to be aware of what others may find offensive and why that is the case.

[lapsedhibee]

He’s not ‘blacking up’, he was in fancy dress!!

How can folk not tell the difference??

They probably can. Perhaps they're just too lazy, or it would unreasonably limit their opportunities for virtue signalling to do so.

[greenginger]

Blacking up? Best avoided. We are not living in the 1950s.


Better avoid the Moors and Christians festivals in Spain then.


https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=moors+and+christian+festival&rlz=1C1RNLE_enGB597GB597&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiD-MaL--_XAhVKvRQKHSbEBXQQ7AkIVw&biw=1240&bih=715#imgrc=N_9LtiwyA8JSuM:

[Michael]

Surely the ideal situation is that skin colour is so irrelevant that painting your face black to look like Mr T for fancy dress is no more controversial than wearing a bunch of gold chains.

Maybe I'm stupid, but maybe we should save the finger pointing for people who are actually trying to be malicious.

[Ryan69]

Regardless, in today's society and someone who's in the public eye, it's rather distasteful to paint yourself black

You should tell the Dutch that.lol

[Moody Blues]

He's done his face to match his body suit, big deal! Nothing wrong with it at all, once again some folk just have to see sometbing that isn't there.

This..I personally find nothing offensive the way this guy has dressed up for his fancy dress party. If he was not a Jambo folk would no have give a toss about him, apart from the high and mighty diversity brigade.

[Unseen work]

I suppose the film ‘white chicks’ is racist too then?

Two black males change there appearance to white females and act similar to them.

The most racist thing about this whole thread it the term “blacking it up”.

Cole Stockton is not racist for dressing up as a character.

[Stuart93]

PC gone mad

Try switching off and back on again, that usually works with mines

[Peevemor]

Surely the ideal situation is that skin colour is so irrelevant that painting your face black to look like Mr T for fancy dress is no more controversial than wearing a bunch of gold chains.

Maybe I'm stupid, but maybe we should save the finger pointing for people who are actually trying to be malicious.

I agree.

He disguised himself as a specific character. Had he went as the Incredible Hulk he would no doubt have painted his face green. For me, in the spirit it was intended, there's no difference.

Do people get humpty about Village People costumes? Serious question.

[Captain Trips]

IMO it's aw a load of utter nonsense.

[Tornadoes70]

Maybe he's a big Mr T fan? :dunno:

Excellent point.

We don't know his reasons for behaving in the way most fans would probably steer clear of. Its become a contentious issue to do what he did due to political correctness and being careful not to offend sections of society of which I personally happen to agree with especially the part taking care not to unduly offend sections of society which may be. We all have a duty of care not to offend fellow citizens. Times have changed and will keep changing thankfully towards inclusiveness and moving away from behaviour that may be considered promoting discrimination and/or offensive.

[Baader]

Each their own, blackface doesn't imply you're a racist. Just stupid. Try walking through Brixton with that saying it's not offensive though...

[greenginger]

Each their own, blackface doesn't imply you're a racist. Just stupid. Try walking through Brixton with that saying it's not offensive though...


Should this festival be cancelled in case anyone from Brixton might be in the area.



https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=spanish+festival+with+white+pointed+hoods&rlz=1C1RNLE_enGB597GB597&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwinm4zE_O_XAhVBNxQKHSMRCwYQ7AkINg&biw=1240&bih=715

Taking offence at an image rather than the meaning or intent is nuts.

[My_Wife_Camille]

Do Hearts black players speak for the entire black (or any race for that matter) population?

I'm Scottish and I don't find the word 'jock' offensive, likewise the derivative 'sweaty sock' and whilst I find jokes about tight fistedness unbelievably unoriginal, boring and unfunny they don't offend me. I don't believe that allows me to call other people 'darkie', 'chinky' or 'paki' though. Nor does it allow me to make jokes about witch doctors or, topically, paint myself black. The reason being that just because I'm not offended by words used to describe, or jokes about, my ethnicity doesn't mean others don't find such actions inappropriate or offensive.

Not being able to do any of those things has no meaningful impact on my life. Having to say 'I'm having a Chinese for tea' isn't really a hassle.

The argument about 'choosing to be offended' fails on many levels. Primarily because we all, to some extent, have a choice in what we are offended by. If I started cracking jokes about child abuse maybe some on here who aren't offended by Cole Stocktons choice of costume would be by that. Can I justify my actions by saying 'stop choosing to be offended'? Secondly I don't view my personal opinions on morality as the be all and end all. Ultimately whether I find racism, homophobia or sexism offensive is irrelevant. It's far more important to be aware of what others may find offensive and why that is the case.
Exactly this.

Wonder how many of the people on here Samsung the ‘choosing to be offended’ line are among those on other threads who choose to be offended by songs about fenians or the IRA?

Blacking up is a racist action. That’s not an opinion it’s a fact. The intention might not have been to be offensive but it’s still a racist action.

[Carheenlea]

Most of us on here could go to a fancy dress party dressed as Mr T and nobody would be getting too bothered about it, but a footballer in the public eye doing so will always attract a lot more attention, and for that reason alone it was an ill thought out costume.
I feel sorry for him, because he will be no racist, but take a step back and think about it for a minute before choosing the outfit and he would maybe have come to the conclusion it is probably best avoided and ultimately he wouldn't have the Sun feeding off it at his expense.

[Thecat23]

Exactly this.

Wonder how many of the people on here Samsung the ‘choosing to be offended’ line are among those on other threads who choose to be offended by songs about fenians or the IRA?

Blacking up is a racist action. That’s not an opinion it’s a fact. The intention might not have been to be offensive but it’s still a racist action.

He didn’t Black up though can’t you tell the difference? People need to stop making this out that he’s “blacked up” like the old days. Nothing at all like that.

[BSEJVT]

Threads along these lines crop up with unfailing regularity.

You would think that the people who post and moan about "PC gone mad" would have grasped the point by now, but given they post those sort of replies every time then you just have to assume they don't have the smarts to actually take on board the salient point.

Which is, the world has moved on. And they've not. And that's their problem. And they're going to find the world a smaller and smaller place as their dinosaur, unreconstructed views just keep getting challenged. If you're not smart enough to recognise you're in the wrong then you shouldn't blame those who get it, for it.

I think that's a gross over simplification of people's genuine bewilderment over things.

I had personally never heard of the "blackface" debate before this thread and any time I have ever seen someone portraying something that they were not my first instinct hasn't been to rush to judgement over their motivations in doing so.

If it is overt discrimination then that is easily identifiable, but I think for many people unless they are particularly attuned to the nuances of certain types of discrimination it is far harder to spot where this is happening,

That some shameful, horrendous, wrong, disgusting (feel free to add any other adjective I have inadvertently missed) things have happened to virtually ever race or religion or nationality or gender or social grouping of people (again feel free to add any other adjective I have inadvertently missed) people is a stain on humanity and continues to be so.

I am just not sure that people who through ignorance, stupidity or naivety cross borders they might not know exist always deserve the castigation they get. I would guess that many who do so would like to have it gently explained to them where they went wrong so they wouldn't do so in future without being held to public account for their misunderstanding.

I know nothing of the Hearts guy and my antipathy towards them is well known but without other evidence to support this I couldn't begin to label him as racist. Misguided, stupid perhaps

I think another thing people find increasingly hard to grasp is the outrage exhibited by others on other people's behalf.

I do wonder if that outrage translates to positive action on for example something like the Rohingya crisis or whether it is look at me outrage?

For the avoidance of all doubt I have absolutely no tolerance for racism and have in the past reported a Hibs supporter for it, but in that case I was absolutely clear that was what it was.

There are clearly many things that happen that others perceive as discrimination now that don't register as such to me.

I have tried very carefully not to offend in this post but as I haven't been exposed to the tribulations suffered by some, doubt I have done so.

Can I ask that rather than lambasting me for this you gently explain to me where I have gone wrong.

This isn't me trying to be flippant on that I swear, I actually find the whole things really confusing and a bit troubling as it is clear I haven't a clue what's what and really really would not wish to offend anyone through my lack of awareness.

[Since90+2]

He was not "blacking up" he was dressed as a TV Character at a fancy dress party. Not often I will defend Hearts players but this whole discussion is utterly ridiculous.

[Baader]

Should this festival be cancelled in case anyone from Brixton might be in the area.



https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=spanish+festival+with+white+pointed+hoods&rlz=1C1RNLE_enGB597GB597&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwinm4zE_O_XAhVBNxQKHSMRCwYQ7AkINg&biw=1240&bih=715

Taking offence at an image rather than the meaning or intent is nuts.

What is it with you and Spanish festivals? As someone with Spanish ancestry I'm impressed 😉. That one harks back to The Inquisition and is a Catholic tradition there. It's not some KKK celebration. Sorry but I just don't see your argument in likening it to the old blackface minstrel type buffoonery.

[My_Wife_Camille]

He didn’t Black up though can’t you tell the difference? People need to stop making this out that he’s “blacked up” like the old days. Nothing at all like that.
There’s not a difference.

There may not have been malicious intent but there wasn’t malicious intent with the old minstrel shows either. That was also just for a laugh

[greenginger]

What is it with you and Spanish festivals? As someone with Spanish ancestry I'm impressed 😉. That one harks back to The Inquisition and is a Catholic tradition there. It's not some KKK celebration. Sorry but I just don't see your argument in likening it to the old blackface minstrel type buffoonery.

I spend a lot of time in Spain and been to quite a few festivals.

Its about people taking offence at an image rather than the reason, intent or meaning of a particular act , like getting dressed up in a costume.

Out of interest, would a mixed race person be allowed to be Mr T. ?

[Thecat23]

There’s not a difference.

There may not have been malicious intent but there wasn’t malicious intent with the old minstrel shows either. That was also just for a laugh

He’s not laughing at black people. He’s dressed as an 80’s Tv icon. I was going to dress up as Darth Vader but better not now as he’s black so I may as well be a storm trooper!

[wookie70]

I'm of the opinion that it just isn't a very bright thing to do. Anyone with half an ounce of common sense would know that it could lead to negative publicity. I've read quite a bit this morning and one thing for sure is that whenever white people paint their faces black you will get accused of a racist action. That applies to Morris Dancers and other folk performers as much as it does for footballers. So why do it in the first place? What were his intentions? I think he isn't very bright but unless you saw what he was doing while dressed up then its hard to know if he is just a bit daft or he was trying to offend. One thing for sure is that he and his Hearts chums won't be going on any damn plane to Europe next year.

[Andy.1875]

Just off to watch Tropic Thunder again, a film that stars a black Robert Downey Jr.
Didn't seem to ruin his career by doing it.

[My_Wife_Camille]

He’s not laughing at black people. He’s dressed as an 80’s Tv icon. I was going to dress up as Darth Vader but better not now as he’s black so I may as well be a storm trooper!
Until people start seeing the difference between a black person and shrek/hulk/Darth Vader then these problems will still arise.

Pretty Boys post was the best example so far. There doesn’t need to be racist intent to be racist.

[Barman Stanton]

How could you dress up as Mr T without making your face black!? It's bonkers that anyone views this as racism. It's in no way like the mistrals, which were intended to poke fun at a race of people. Honestly, some people get offended by anything now.

[speedy_gonzales]

Blacking up is a racist action. That’s not an opinion it’s a fact.
FACT you say? In that case most of the young ladies that I pass in my manor must be full on KKK card carrying bigots because through fake bake and foundation you apply with a trowel they have darker skin tone than Prince Harry's latest conquest,,,,

[Slavers]

Each their own, blackface doesn't imply you're a racist. Just stupid. Try walking through Brixton with that saying it's not offensive though...

Are you saying that black people from Brixton are more violent and intolerant than other people - that's a pretty racist view if you are.

I do think at times the true racists are the virtue signalling left thinking white liberals as they define everything by race. Instead of seeing a the Mr T costume as a celebration of a well loved black actor, they automatically assume in this situation that black is bad and a white person is not capable loving a black actor so much that they want to be him by dressing up.

The virtue signalling white liberal needs to accept that times have moved on from blackface and it's them who are dragging society back in time by calling everything racist.

[speedy_gonzales]

As a scotsmen who belives in independce i find it offence the royal coat of arms has the unicorn in chains,,,,,

You might want to educate yourself there as for the umpteenth time it was actually the Scottish Kings that chained the unicorn, in a show of power over the mythical beast, but let's not let historical facts interrrupt the rantings on here 🤔

[Baader]

I spend a lot of time in Spain and been to quite a few festivals.

Its about people taking offence at an image rather than the reason, intent or meaning of a particular act , like getting dressed up in a costume.

Out of interest, would a mixed race person be allowed to be Mr T. ?

Glad you share my love for Spain. The original festival you showed takes place around Valencia near where a number of my family hail.

Im not offended by this clown's choice of fancy dress. But I'm not black. I am just putting forward the opinion that it isn't a very good idea in this day and age and probably best avoided. There is a power dynamic but that's another issue.

The only thing I am offended at is the fact he's a Jambo. In this case much lessened by the fact he's utter $h¡£e.

[Thecat23]

Until people start seeing the difference between a black person and shrek/hulk/Darth Vader then these problems will still arise.

Pretty Boys post was the best example so far. There doesn’t need to be racist intent to be racist.

Until people start seeing the difference from wearing a full KKK outfit and dressing as an ACTOR you mean! The fact people are getting offended by this for me makes them the ones with skin issues. He’s not taking the piss out any black person he’s dressed up as an actor. I see black people as an equal like I do with any race.

[percy veer]

In your opinion


Do do we have to put in my opinion after every sentence, get a grip in my honest opinion

[WhileTheChief..]

So what if someone is offended, that’s part of life.

Some people are offended by the idea of sexual or racial equality. Should we really take their feelings into account and go back to the dark ages?

[WhileTheChief..]

Do do we have to put in my opinion after every sentence, get a grip in my honest opinion

Crazy eh. Pretty much everything I post is in my opinion but I don’t feel the need to add it at the end of every post.

It kinda goes without saying really.

[bigwheel]

It is a more complex topic than Mr T costume...I have some sympathy for Stockton, but people's reaction to "Blacking Up" is because of how it has been used through history. ... Blacking up has been used as part of discrimination and degradation.."golliwogs, minstrel show" etc...it wasn't just the "blacking up" thing, but caricaturing the race as "funny" or "silly".

Stockton could have done well just to stay away from creating his "black" face ...tbh people would have seen him as Mr T without any colour on his face...it was done I suspect to be a bit more "bold" with his costume - and in my view, completely unnecessary..

[Billychaotic182]

Welcome to 2017 where everyone is offended by absolutely everything!

He is dressing up as a tv character. He is wearing a fancy dress suit that is black. Surely he would look stupid in it with a pale white face. Would there be this outrage if he went green as the hulk? Or if he went pink as the pink panther, or how about purple and went as Thanos, maybe even yellow and went as Homer Simpson. If anyone is offended by this they need to have a word. Dare is say not one of the black players were offended by this.

Where was this outcry when Kyle Walker went white face? Or Dele Ali when he went white face? Or the movie white chicks?

Not often I will defend a Hearts player but some people really need to step back and think. Is He racist? No. Is he in fancy dress? Yes. Is what he is dressed as offensive? No he’s a tv character. Again if Isma went as David Hassslehoff would there be this outcry?

[Stuart93]

Do do we have to put in my opinion after every sentence, get a grip in my honest opinion

That's in your opinion

[bigwheel]

Welcome to 2017 where everyone is offended by absolutely everything!

He is dressing up as a tv character. He is wearing a fancy dress suit that is black. Surely he would look stupid in it with a pale white face. Would there be this outrage if he went green as the hulk? Or if he went pink as the pink panther, or how about purple and went as Thanos, maybe even yellow and went as Homer Simpson. If anyone is offended by this they need to have a word. Dare is say not one of the black players were offended by this.

Where was this outcry when Kyle Walker went white face? Or Dele Ali when he went white face? Or the movie white chicks?

Not often I will defend a Hearts player but some people really need to step back and think. Is He racist? No. Is he in fancy dress? Yes. Is what he is dressed as offensive? No he’s a tv character. Again if Isma went as David Hassslehoff would there be this outcry?


it is not about changing the colour of your skin. It is the centuries of degradation of the black race...This is what a black writer said in an article about how hard it is for caucasians understanding what it is like to be black in the world today.

" I would almost compare it to a shark trying to understand how it must feel like to walk on land. It's a completely different state of being. Growing up in a society where everything white is deemed positive and most things black are deemed negative is like swimming in water with a strong tide against the wind. You have to swim harder".

[mcohibs]

Painting your face to be black/ white should be as trivial as wearing a wig to look like a female or wearing stilts to make you look taller. I hope that day comes.

Racism is abhorrent. Cole Stockton is not a racist and this is a non-story.

[Stokesy's on fire]

What a load or trash he's done nothing wrong this country has lost the plot.

[Billychaotic182]

it is not about changing the colour of your skin. It is the centuries of degradation of the black race...This is what a black writer said in an article about how hard it is for caucasians understanding what it is like to be black in the world today.

" I would almost compare it to a shark trying to understand how it must feel like to walk on land. It's a completely different state of being. Growing up in a society where everything white is deemed positive and most things black are deemed negative is like swimming in water with a strong tide against the wind. You have to swim harder".




He was dressed up as Mr T. A character. A non racist character.

Why is it the only people really offended by this are white adult males. Pretty sure he was out of more than one black player and I 110% guarantee not one of them cared

[bigwheel]

He was dressed up as Mr T. A character. A non racist character.

Why is it the only people really offended by this are white adult males. Pretty sure he was out of more than one black player and I 110% guarantee not one of them cared


I was answering your "why does no one care when Deli Ali etc....point".....

I wasn't commenting on Stockton - I did that in another post - have some sympathy with him - but I can equally understand why people feel it was a bad call on this part to "black up"..

[percy veer]

That's in your opinion


Correct

[Bostonhibby]

You might want to educate yourself there as for the umpteenth time it was actually the Scottish Kings that chained the unicorn, in a show of power over the mythical beast, but let's not let historical facts interrrupt the rantings on here [emoji848]Pray for the unicorns, they are the real victims in all of this.

Scottish kings, forever discriminatory against mythical horses with a horn sticking out their heads.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[Pete]

It's this desperation to be offended and 1 up other social justice warriors that has me cheering on Trump.

This is probably one of the most depressing posts out of a bunch of depressing posts on this thread. I know little of American politics but I'm wondering if trump and his supporters boosted their popularity by claiming people with concerns about race were malicious, PC gone mad virtue-signallers who were the ones who really weren't thinking deeply enough about the issue.

I know there's a lot of variation of opinion on this and the good thing is that there's no ill-feeling behind anyone's point of view...or for that matter Stocktons choice of fancy dress. However, for me it's simple: White guys shouldn't be painting their faces black for amusement under any circumstances. Technically, it's not the classic "blackface" and the intentions are different (it's a specific character rather than a racial characterisation) but the very act of doing this, in any context, reminds many people of a dark time in our history.
You don't have to be black to feel uncomfortable with this, you just have to know a bit about black history and hold certain opinions ( I've no doubt someothers who hold differing ones know about it too, so no patronisation intended). However, discrimination is still very real for black communities all over the world and I'm sure the tales of black and white minstrel shows etc...from their parents don't go down too well. How many people felt uncomfortable with Nazi fancy dress costumes or that guy dressed as a paramilitary at the festival?
People have also talked about black people whiting up and guys dressed as women etc...but when have things like that ever been used in a demeaning context to dehumanise white people and women? And as for a mask...yes that would be better. At least with a mask you are becoming a specific character and not using a technique that is linked to historic racial stereotyping.

I'd put this in the same box as innocent racial stereotyping like labelling black guys good singers with big willys. It's just a laugh, there's no malicious intent but there's a dark history to it and it's best avoided.
Of course we can talk about the desire to be colourblind and hopefully the day will come where we can laugh at these things and realise they are as bizarre as discriminating against people because they have size nine feet or thick eyebrows. I'm not sure we've come that far as a society yet where everyone will get the joke.

[Pete]

Why is it the only people really offended by this are white adult males.

This is becoming a dot net fact.

How does anyone know this?:wink:

[ChrissyG1875]

https://youtu.be/-0L_oJMhcs0

https://youtu.be/dPQkKD9GKr4

This should clear things up for some

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[lord bunberry]

Welcome to 2017 where everyone is offended by absolutely everything!

He is dressing up as a tv character. He is wearing a fancy dress suit that is black. Surely he would look stupid in it with a pale white face. Would there be this outrage if he went green as the hulk? Or if he went pink as the pink panther, or how about purple and went as Thanos, maybe even yellow and went as Homer Simpson. If anyone is offended by this they need to have a word. Dare is say not one of the black players were offended by this.

Where was this outcry when Kyle Walker went white face? Or Dele Ali when he went white face? Or the movie white chicks?

Not often I will defend a Hearts player but some people really need to step back and think. Is He racist? No. Is he in fancy dress? Yes. Is what he is dressed as offensive? No he’s a tv character. Again if Isma went as David Hassslehoff would there be this outcry?
The vast majority of people on this thread have clearly stated that they aren’t offended. People are making ridiculous comparisons and shouting on about pc going mad. Personally I couldn’t care less that he’s chosen to change his skin colour and dress up as Mr T, but you would have to have lived a pretty sheltered life to not be aware that this sort of thing has caused controversy in the past.

[--------]

Dressing up in blackface as the Robertson's golliwog (which I agree is a thoroughly offensive expression and one which I thought three or four times about even typing here) is clearly racist. Robertson's were forced, quite rightly, to 'retire' that trademark 15 years ago, though even now the firm maintains that they did so for commercial reasons, not because the image constituted a racial slur.

But then take 'Uncle Ben' rice products. That trademark is racist - 'uncle' was at best a condescending, patronising form of address aimed at elderly African-American male servants from well before the Civil War. The old family retainer - the trademark even has the guy togged up in the black suit and bow tie. Samuel L Jackson played him so well in 'Django Unchained'. At worst, 'uncle' is a term of utter contempt

And Uncle Ben isn't the only one - https://spoonuniversity.com/lifestyle/racist-food-brands-still-stock-our-shelves

'The Black And White Minstrel Show' was clearly racist - and misogynist at the same time. The (white) men dressed up in blackface as ****** minstrels, and the women - that's the female members of the same group of singers - at times were hardly dressed at all. There were lots of equally racist - and misogynist - sitcoms on TV at the time - 'Rising Damp' in my opinion rings both bells, though it's by far the mildest of a very nasty bunch.

And btw, I'm not convinced that the character Apu in 'The Simpsons' isn't a racist caricature, and one that should be causing more offence that it does. He'd fit right into 'Rising Damp' or 'Love Thy Neighbour'. And the same cartoon's 'Scottish' janitor is certainly a racist caricature, and a pretty vicious one if you think about it. Imagine any other ethnic group depicted in the same terms - he'd have been gone long ago.

But I wouldn't imagine anyone would consider it out of order for an American or even an Englishman to turn up at a 'Simpsons' themed party dressed up as him?

Presumably it's OK to put those characters in because it's a cartoon? But then, what about the housekeeper in the 'Tom and Jerry' cartoons?

[Dropkick Murphy]

Welcome to 2017 where everyone is offended by absolutely everything!

He is dressing up as a tv character. He is wearing a fancy dress suit that is black. Surely he would look stupid in it with a pale white face. Would there be this outrage if he went green as the hulk? Or if he went pink as the pink panther, or how about purple and went as Thanos, maybe even yellow and went as Homer Simpson. If anyone is offended by this they need to have a word. Dare is say not one of the black players were offended by this.

Where was this outcry when Kyle Walker went white face? Or Dele Ali when he went white face? Or the movie white chicks?

Not often I will defend a Hearts player but some people really need to step back and think. Is He racist? No. Is he in fancy dress? Yes. Is what he is dressed as offensive? No he’s a tv character. Again if Isma went as David Hassslehoff would there be this outcry?

Of course there would be no outrage if someone was painted green for the hulk because painting your face green has never been a historical tool to oppress a green race (Not saying stockton is trying to oppress anyone - saying that painting your face black was a historical form of oppression).

Don't know how many times it has to be said that different historical context means that black people 'whiting' their skin is entirely different to white people 'blacking' their skin. Seeing it as hypocrisy is ignoring hundreds of years of history. That is why there is no outcry when it is done the other way. Historical context is what makes things potentially offensive. Again I am not saying stockton is a racist. I'm also not saying that I am offended by what stockton did, I am just surprised that people can't see why it is a questionable area.

[easty]

Of course there would be no outrage if someone was painted green for the hulk because painting your face green has never been a historical tool to oppress a green race (Not saying stockton is trying to oppress anyone - saying that painting your face black was a historical form of oppression).

Don't know how many times it has to be said that different historical context means that black people 'whiting' their skin is entirely different to white people 'blacking' their skin. Seeing it as hypocrisy is ignoring hundreds of years of history. That is why there is no outcry when it is done the other way. Historical context is what makes things potentially offensive. Again I am not saying stockton is a racist. I'm also not saying that I am offended by what stockton did, I am just surprised that people can't see why it is a questionable area.

I don't know how many times it has to be said that it's not a racism issue, to blacken your face to go as Mr T, anymore than it's prejudiced against the disabled to go as Brian Potter.

[WhileTheChief..]

If a white actor played the role of Shaft there would be outrage.

If a black actor played the role of Bond folk would be saying about time, should have happened sooner etc.

Someone mentioned Trump earlier. The problem with all this kinda chat is that it will drive people who don’t see themselves as racist in the slightest towards his way of thinking.

This is sort of thing isn’t racist by any stretch of the imagination and all it does is trivialise real racism.

[easty]

If a black actor played the role of Bond folk would be saying about time, should have happened sooner etc.



Noooooo! Bond is white.

[Speedway]

Have any black people complained about Cole Stockton's Mr. T impersonation?

If so, has the situation been corrected with an apology?

If not, where's the issue?

[mjhibby]

If a white actor played the role of Shaft there would be outrage.

If a black actor played the role of Bond folk would be saying about time, should have happened sooner etc.

Someone mentioned Trump earlier. The problem with all this kinda chat is that it will drive people who don’t see themselves as racist in the slightest towards his way of thinking.

This is sort of thing isn’t racist by any stretch of the imagination and all it does is trivialise real racism.

Indeed it does.

[Swedish hibee]

How come it's acceptable to use fake tan then? Should that not be outlawed too??
...Now that's something I'd support!!!😂

[mjhibby]

If nothing else, the fact that a Hearts player dressing up as Mr T for a night out has generated 11 pages of debate on .net shows that there must not be enough actual football related things for us to squabble about.

An unintended consequence of not being ***** I guess. I say bring back Rowan Vine and McGivern so we can all focus our righteous ire on them!!!

Or grumpy gibby, the northstand hibby. It's all a loadypish. Your right we've very little to moan about being a point off second so need to vent our spleen on something.

[Peevemor]

How come it's acceptable to use fake tan then? Should that not be outlawed too??
...Now that's something I'd support!!!😂

Because there aren't enough naturally, unnaturally orange people about to create a pressure group.

[Dashing Bob S]

Would it be differently received if Pat Nevin or Alan Stubbs dressed up as Mr T (would love to see that) than if Ron Atkinson or Malky MacKay did so?

[SirDavidsNapper]

Threads along these lines crop up with unfailing regularity.

You would think that the people who post and moan about "PC gone mad" would have grasped the point by now, but given they post those sort of replies every time then you just have to assume they don't have the smarts to actually take on board the salient point.

Which is, the world has moved on. And they've not. And that's their problem. And they're going to find the world a smaller and smaller place as their dinosaur, unreconstructed views just keep getting challenged. If you're not smart enough to recognise you're in the wrong then you shouldn't blame those who get it, for it.

I just find it completely ridiculous anyone would be offended by this. It's hardly racial hatred is it.

[WhileTheChief..]

Noooooo! Bond is white.

Aye, and Dr Who’s a bloke :wink:

[SlickShoes]

He was dressed up as Mr T. A character. A non racist character.

Why is it the only people really offended by this are white adult males. Pretty sure he was out of more than one black player and I 110% guarantee not one of them cared

If you think that the only people offended by black face are white adult males then you must live in a bubble or something.

[easty]

Aye, and Dr Who’s a bloke :wink:

Dr Who is an alien.

[Billychaotic182]

If you think that the only people offended by black face are white adult males then you must live in a bubble or something.

Ok show me a who else is offended by him dressed as Mr T.

[Pete]

If a white actor played the role of Shaft there would be outrage.

If a black actor played the role of Bond folk would be saying about time, should have happened sooner etc.

Someone mentioned Trump earlier. The problem with all this kinda chat is that it will drive people who don’t see themselves as racist in the slightest towards his way of thinking.

This is sort of thing isn’t racist by any stretch of the imagination and all it does is trivialise real racism.

So it’s the liberal lefts fault that people are attaching themselves to racist bandwagons?

It’s also being twisted to the point that racial sensitivity is now trivialising racism.

Are there really that many people who can’t see why this isn’t right?

[SlickShoes]

Ok show me a who else is offended by him dressed as Mr T.

Why do I have to show you? go and read a history book, educate yourself.

[--------]

Noooooo! Bond is white.


James Bond is like the Dread Pirate Roberts.

Every now and again the current Bond retires, and someone else takes his place.

The first one might have been a Scot, but Ian Fleming's main inspiration for the character was a WW2 Serbian double agent named Dusko Popov. So the next JB could be anyone - even a woman ....

And I'm surprised that a card-carrying disciple of Mr Corbyn would use the term 'white' - 'white' as in 'white man's burden'? :wink:

[Billychaotic182]

Why do I have to show you? go and read a history book, educate yourself.

I know all about black face and it’s history but that’s not what is going on here. It’s a guy in fancy dress. Not mocking anyone, he is dressed up as a tv character that they make suits for. If he used fake tan would there be this outcry on here. Or if he was a hibs player.....

[mcohibs]

Do Hearts black players speak for the entire black (or any race for that matter) population?

Of course not but can you really find a sample of any population that speaks for everyone? It's impossible. As it is to guarantee that your actions do not offend at least someone, somewhere. I could dress up as a microwave for Halloween and someone on planet earth would find it offensive. You need to take a common sense approach to these things.

The common sense approach in this case is that Cole Stockton is not a racist for dressing up as a popular TV character. There is a colossal difference between that and using derogatory language to describe someone of a different race, such as that referred to in your post.

Skin colour should be as trivial as the colour of your eyes or hair. Highlighting instances such as this and calling them out as immoral or racist only helps to stop that becoming a reality.

[--------]

Ok show me a who else is offended by him dressed as Mr T.


I am. :devil:

[stoneyburn hibs]

Fourteen pages and nobody has posted the A team's phone number to get the thoughts of Mr T/ BA Baracus viewpoint on this stooshie.
What a selfish bunch.

[WhileTheChief..]

So it’s the liberal lefts fault that people are attaching themselves to racist bandwagons?

It’s also being twisted to the point that racial sensitivity is now trivialising racism.

Are there really that many people who can’t see why this isn’t right?

Not sure I said any of that in the post you quoted!

[Pete]

Not sure I said any of that in the post you quoted!

So what did you mean in paragraphs 3 and 4?

[Bostonhibby]

Because there aren't enough naturally, unnaturally orange people about to create a pressure group.Try and keep sevco fans out of it or we'll be getting accused of discrimination against what I believe is a self proclaimed cultural minority.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[One Day Soon]

I must admit I'm really looking forward to Christmas. That is all.

[Firestarter]

Because there aren't enough naturally, unnaturally orange people about to create a pressure group.

I thought they where dressing up as Oompa Loompas?

[SRHibs]

So it’s the liberal lefts fault that people are attaching themselves to racist bandwagons?

It’s also being twisted to the point that racial sensitivity is now trivialising racism.

Are there really that many people who can’t see why this isn’t right?

Not entirely, but when the far left’s views begin to become common ideals for some, it’s natural that there is going to be a push back from the opposite direction. The SJW movement is definitely partially responsible for the increase in the nationalist and alt-right movement. All this controversy about everything does not help bridge the race gap, and instead just incites more separatist thinking.

[Slavers]

Why no comment on the black on black slave trade currentl happening in Libya?

Is it because this slave trade was introduced to Libya by the actions of the high priest and queen of virtue signalling Obama and Hillary Clinton?

[bigwheel]

Why no comment on the black on black slave trade currentl happening in Libya?

Is it because this slave trade was introduced to Libya by the actions of the high priest and queen of virtue signalling Obama and Hillary Clinton?

This thread has taken a turn........


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Salt N Sauzee]

Have to be pretty soft to be offended by that.

[Springbank]

Slight tweak to the A-Team Theme Tune Lyrics required now...

In 1973, following a seven nil home derby defeat, a crack commando unit was sent to prison
by an SFA Compliance Officer for a crime they didn't commit.
These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade
to the Tynecastle Park New Main Stand.
Today, still wanted by the SFA beaks, they survive as soldiers of fortune.
If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them...
maybe you can hire Cole Stockton."


source: https://www.lyricsondemand.com/tvthemes/theateamlyrics.html


And the original...

In 1972, a crack commando unit was sent to prison
by a military court for a crime they didn't commit.
These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade
to the Los Angeles underground.
Today, still wanted by the government they survive as soldiers of fortune.
If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them...
maybe you can hire The A-Team."


source: https://www.lyricsondemand.com/tvthemes/theateamlyrics.html

[Thecat23]

Why no comment on the black on black slave trade currentl happening in Libya?

Is it because this slave trade was introduced to Libya by the actions of the high priest and queen of virtue signalling Obama and Hillary Clinton?

This has escalated quickly!! 😳

[Hibrandenburg]

I can't shake the feeling that taking offence at someone dressing up as BA Baracas is itself offensive. I grew up with the A Team and loved the show as a kid. BA Baracas is a strong, cool and positive figure and I get why someone might want to replicate his appearance in costume, after all they do say that "imitation is the highest form of a compliment". Isn't it a bit racist to want to deprive people of imitating their favourite black celebrities? I'd understand the offence if the costume was intended to be just any black person because the wearer thought they were funny, but that's not the case here, Stockton was portraying a cult TV character loved by thousands, like Dr Who, Wonder Woman, James Bond or Mohamed Ali. I can't believe that Mr T would be anything other than amused at this, maybe he should be the one to decide if it's offensive.

[SanFranHibs]

This thread has taken a turn........


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Which is understandable and probably a natural progression because no matter which side of the argument one is inclined to, it is definitely part of a greater matter.

Frankly, I am not the least offended by it. But then I would not be offended if a black guy 'whitened' up to play Mr T's boss. Indeed, that might have been amusing if a black guy had gone as his boss, (Nielson?) and a white guy as Mr T and John Robertson as their van. Would anyone really be offended?

[660]

This thread is going places

[easty]

Why no comment on the black on black slave trade currentl happening in Libya?

Is it because this slave trade was introduced to Libya by the actions of the high priest and queen of virtue signalling Obama and Hillary Clinton?

And why hasn't anybody mentioned that the moon landings were fake?

[SanFranHibs]

And why hasn't anybody mentioned that the moon landings were fake?

Because no-one claimed they were on the 'dark' side of the moon

[CropleyWasGod]

Why no comment on the black on black slave trade currentl happening in Libya?

Is it because this slave trade was introduced to Libya by the actions of the high priest and queen of virtue signalling Obama and Hillary Clinton?

Probably because, AFAIK, neither are Jambos.

[Slavers]

And why hasn't anybody mentioned that the moon landings were fake?

Whats that got to do with the oppression of black people?

[DH1875]

Quick question, is it alright for a black guy to dress up as Santa?

[easty]

Whats that got to do with the oppression of black people?

How many of the astronauts on Apollo 11 were black? None. Racist much?

[SanFranHibs]

Quick question, is it alright for a black guy to dress up a Santa?

Quick answer. Yes. Although Nipsy Russell, a black comedian who regularly appeared on the Dean Martin celebrity roasts summed it up best...'It's not that black kids are too hip to believe in Santa, they just don't believe any white guy is going to ride a sleigh through Harlem after midnight'.

[Slavers]

How many of the astronauts on Apollo 11 were black? None. Racist much?

I take you think that the aliens living on the dark side of the moon are racist.

[easty]

I take you think that the aliens living on the dark side of the moon are racist.

Only when they dress up like Mr T.

[SanFranHibs]

Only when they dress up like Mr T.

But not Mr ET.

[Slavers]

Only when they dress up like Mr T.

That's so damn racist!!!

[Pete]

Not entirely, but when the far left’s views begin to become common ideals for some, it’s natural that there is going to be a push back from the opposite direction. The SJW movement is definitely partially responsible for the increase in the nationalist and alt-right movement.

True, but rather than blame the far left and their ideals for this phenomenon , I'd ask why people feel that taking the diametrically opposite side, even when they are probably going to be worse off, is their answer. The SJW movement might be overbearing but I'm actually glad people are talking about things such as racial and sexual equality, poverty etc.. The perception that they're all clueless internet warriors simply looking for approval is lazy and probably an attempt by some to get away from the very real issues bring up.
Personally, I'm not too keen on the Kick it out campaign at our grounds any more. I started to feel a little bit tired of being told that my sport was racist and I think there are bigger elephants in our room such as homophobia and sectarianism. However, I'm not going to become bitter and go the other way like others who think the response to being inconvenienced is to join a side where it's all about division and building walls.



All this controversy about everything does not help bridge the race gap, and instead just incites more separatist thinking.

I actually agree and don't think those who are screaming that this is racist and talking about privilege are helping. However, there's a difference between doing that and thinking that this is not quite right due to the historical connotations, therefore it's better to err on the side of caution when it comes to painting faces black. I'm firmly in the latter camp.

[Arch Stanton]

Why no comment on the black on black slave trade currentl happening in Libya?

Is it because this slave trade was introduced to Libya by the actions of the high priest and queen of virtue signalling Obama and Hillary Clinton?

Sounds like you have a major beef with Obama (which he probably would agree with) which would be interesting to hear but it's a bit off topic for this thread which is about racism as far as I can tell, and black on black enslavement isn't any more racist than the white on white enslavement for the sex trade.

In fact the thread isn't even about racism now I think on it, it's about Stockon's blacking up which I personally don't consider racist. For me, racism is the casual assupmtion that black people are inferior and causes them to suffer violence and humiliation. For that reason Jim Davidson's Chalky White character is racist but Dale Stocktons Mr T isn't.

[Pete]

This thread is going places

Probably the holy ground.

:greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

And why hasn't anybody mentioned that the moon landings were fake?We all know they were.

The moon being made of cheese it would be impossible for a megatonnage steel structure to land on it. This is also why the cow jumped over the moon rather than landing on it in the famous poem.

Usual apologies to any groups that might take offence here, cheesemongers, anti-cheesemongers, moonlanders, astronauts, astrophysicists etc....

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[Pete]

If someone went to a fantasy dress party as Shrek (Not the Rooney variety) what colour would you expect them to be?

Greenface/greening-up.

Such a controversial topic every time Hampden beckons.

[Slavers]

Sounds like you have a major beef with Obama (which he probably would agree with) which would be interesting to hear but it's a bit off topic for this thread which is about racism as far as I can tell, and black on black enslavement isn't any more racist than the white on white enslavement for the sex trade.

In fact the thread isn't even about racism now I think on it, it's about Stockon's blacking up which I personally don't consider racist. For me, racism is the casual assupmtion that black people are inferior and causes them to suffer violence and humiliation. For that reason Jim Davidson's Chalky White character is racist but Dale Stocktons Mr T isn't.

Yes I went a bit of topic but I was trying make a point saying that if you are really concerned about the welfare of black people then the abhorrent slave trade happening today in Libya is probably the place to start not whether Carl Stockton has been dressing up as Mr T.

[Arch Stanton]

Yes I went a bit of topic but I was trying make a point saying that if you are really concerned about the welfare of black people then the abhorrent slave trade happening today in Libya is probably the place to start not whether Carl Stockton has been dressing up as Mr T.

Tend to agree - the whole North African refugee situation is a nightmare.

[mcohibs]

Plot twist - it's actually Mr T

[J-C]

He’s not laughing at black people. He’s dressed as an 80’s Tv icon. I was going to dress up as Darth Vader but better not now as he’s black so I may as well be a storm trooper!

Bit of a quandary for you TC, white actor in the suit but voiced by a black actor.


Just off to watch Tropic Thunder again, a film that stars a black Robert Downey Jr.
Didn't seem to ruin his career by doing it.

Downey's character was not actually blacked up he played an Australian actor Kirk Lazarus, who had skin pigmentation alteration for the part of Sgt Lincoln Osiris, because his skin stayed black he kept in character all the way through the film. as he was seen as the world's best character method actor, he refused to come out of character.

[lord bunberry]

Yes I went a bit of topic but I was trying make a point saying that if you are really concerned about the welfare of black people then the abhorrent slave trade happening today in Libya is probably the place to start not whether Carl Stockton has been dressing up as Mr T.
So should every other aspect of this argument be ignored, due to what’s happening in Libya? People are having a debate as to whether Stockton should or shouldn’t have dressed up as Mr T. Trying to turn it into something it isn’t, isn’t helpful.
It always surprises me how difficult it is to have a proper discussion about certain things in this country without people getting all worked up or silly. We’ve had people asking about the hulk and shrek and now the slave trade in Libya.
If people can’t see the possible problems that doing what Stockton did, then they should just leave it at that.

[Craig_HFC]

This place is utterly mental 90% of the time.

[Arch Stanton]

So should every other aspect of this argument be ignored, due to what’s happening in Libya? People are having a debate as to whether Stockton should or shouldn’t have dressed up as Mr T. Trying to turn it into something it isn’t, isn’t helpful.
It always surprises me how difficult it is to have a proper discussion about certain things in this country without people getting all worked up or silly. We’ve had people asking about the hulk and shrek and now the slave trade in Libya.
If people can’t see the possible problems that doing what Stockton did, then they should just leave it at that.

The only possible problems I can think of are him being stopped and searched on the way home. :greengrin

[andybev1]

political crap, not racist IMO. My indian partner who I think can be overly politically correct at times is on the fence. I just do not understand why there has to be a problem? would we care if a black person 'whited up' to become a character - I know I wouldn't.

[SRHibs]

True, but rather than blame the far left and their ideals for this phenomenon , I'd ask why people feel that taking the diametrically opposite side, even when they are probably going to be worse off, is their answer. The SJW movement might be overbearing but I'm actually glad people are talking about things such as racial and sexual equality, poverty etc.. The perception that they're all clueless internet warriors simply looking for approval is lazy and probably an attempt by some to get away from the very real issues bring up.
Personally, I'm not too keen on the Kick it out campaign at our grounds any more. I started to feel a little bit tired of being told that my sport was racist and I think there are bigger elephants in our room such as homophobia and sectarianism. However, I'm not going to become bitter and go the other way like others who think the response to being inconvenienced is to join a side where it's all about division and building walls.



I actually agree and don't think those who are screaming that this is racist and talking about privilege are helping. However, there's a difference between doing that and thinking that this is not quite right due to the historical connotations, therefore it's better to err on the side of caution when it comes to painting faces black. I'm firmly in the latter camp.

I agree with most of this. Tactless and slightly inconsiderate maybe, but not racist. I still don’t necessarily see the big problem, but that’s not for me to decide.

Would be nice to be able to divorce ‘dressing up as a black guy’ from the historical connotations of proper ‘Blackface’ though. Would be interested to know the views of the black community on this.

[Bishop Hibee]

If he's clueless why did he delete the picture from social media almost instantly?

I’ve no idea but possibly because he was made aware that it would cause a stooshy.

[hibsbollah]

This thread is going places

It really isn't.

It's characterised by lazy thinking, frothing at the mouth about the country going to the dogs because a certain group of people are saying something that's ridiculous. Although actually, this certain group of people aren't actually saying this thing at all. And the frothing at the mouth serves only to build the self righteous anger that caused the frothing at the mouth and build the prejudices and stereotyping that causes the arguments in the first place.

Which is the way most internet discussions go on most subjects, sadly.

[jacomo]

It really isn't.

It's characterised by lazy thinking, frothing at the mouth about the country going to the dogs because a certain group of people are saying something that's ridiculous. Although actually, this certain group of people aren't actually saying this thing at all. And the frothing at the mouth serves only to build the self righteous anger that caused the frothing at the mouth and build the prejudices and stereotyping that causes the arguments in the first place.

Which is the way most internet discussions go on most subjects, sadly.


:agree: I think

[WhileTheChief..]

It’s been a fairly tame discussion without much frothing at all.

Glad to see there’s no extreme views on either side of it, it’s healthy.

[SRHibs]

TL;DR: Don’t “black up” whether you think it’s racist or not. Will save a lot of bother.

[beensaidbefore]

I can see the issue if he dressed as a generic black person, but given he has dressed as a fictional TV character I really can't see the issue.

I made the point last week on another thread, and it seems there are different rules depending on race. Is it not a form of racism to treat people unequally, regardless of their colour?

[WhileTheChief..]

Would be interested to know the views of the black community on this.

Is this casual racism right here? Making a general assumption that most posters on here are white?

I jest of course, but you know, gotta be careful :wink:

[beensaidbefore]

I can see the issue if he dressed as a generic black person, but given he has dressed as a fictional TV character I really can't see the issue.

I made the point last week on another thread, and it seems there are different rules depending on race. Is it not a form of racism to treat people unequally, regardless of their colour?

http://www.hibs.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=19870&stc=1&d=1512408420

Is this photo racist?

[Michael]

http://www.hibs.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=19870&stc=1&d=1512408420

Is this photo racist?

Racist to lobsters.

[WhileTheChief..]

It’s a crap effort for sure. The Snickers is the only giveaway!

[IlDiavola]

Personally, I don't think black people would give a hoot about this.

If you are going to a fancy dress party and the person you are depicting is black, then what the Hell are you meant to do to look like him/her?

You're going to darken your bloody skin aren't you?

Doesn't make one a racist. :rolleyes:

[beensaidbefore]

It’s a crap effort for sure. The Snickers is the only giveaway!

Imagine he didn't use face paint....

[beensaidbefore]

Racist to lobsters.

😂😂 I don't think he was quite so red in real life.

[Arch Stanton]

Next time he should go as Ali G - save all this fuss.

[Pete]

TL;DR: Don’t “black up” whether you think it’s racist or not. Will save a lot of bother.

Good a way as any to end the thread.

Well, end it for me anyway. 🙂

[silverhibee]

Next time he should go as Ali G - save all this fuss.

He really went as David Dickinson.

[brianmc]

I read the first few pages of this thread and nearly lost the will to live...

Can someone please confirm: Is it still okay for us dress up our children as Middle Eastern Jews (be they Wise MEN,"lowly"shepherds, mythical flying entities or indeed the alleged Mother of the Messiah) and as donkeys etc etc???

Asking for a friend 🙄

[Firestarter]

I read the first few pages of this thread and nearly lost the will to live...

Can someone please confirm: Is it still okay for us dress up our children as Middle Eastern Jews (be they Wise MEN,"lowly"shepherds, mythical flying entities or indeed the alleged Mother of the Messiah) and as donkeys etc etc???

Asking for a friend 🙄

There's some on here looking to be raged. I got called racist and offended some boy who's wife is African for slagging that huddy Hearts had as an African huddy or something along they lines.

Boy goes as B.A to fancy dress night out, it's a compliment to the character and the actor. Mr T was class!

[lapsedhibee]

I read the first few pages of this thread and nearly lost the will to live...

Can someone please confirm: Is it still okay for us dress up our children as Middle Eastern Jews (be they Wise MEN,"lowly"shepherds, mythical flying entities or indeed the alleged Mother of the Messiah) and as donkeys etc etc???

Asking for a friend 🙄

Not donkeys. We've exploited donkeys for far too long for that to be acceptable.

[Firestarter]

Not donkeys. We've exploited donkeys for far too long for that to be acceptable.

That will be the end of the Sodje effort for this years party. I just bought one to hang on too.

[brianmc]

Not donkeys. We've exploited donkeys for far too long for that to be acceptable.

Agreed 👏

[brianmc]

That will be the end of the Sodje effort for this years party. I just bought one to hang on too.

🤣🐴

[proud_and_green]

He’s not laughing at black people. He’s dressed as an 80’s Tv icon. I was going to dress up as Darth Vader but better not now as he’s black so I may as well be a storm trooper!

I agree, the difference for me is he has dressed up as a strong black character rather than, as the black and white minstrel show did, played a caricature of a black man.

There has been a comment earlier about whether or not we as Scots are offended by the term 'Jock', 'sweaty sock' or characterising scots as being tight. I remember an advert in the US many years ago which effectively had a Harry Lauder type Scotsman cartoon - red hair and beard, crooked stick, stooped back, over emphasis of 'r' sounds etc and the message was that the Scotsman was so miserly he was jealous of the job the bank being advertised did - or something like that. That is a caricature of a race and quite rightly can be judged to be offensive.

I was at a wedding where the English groom insisted on wearing highland dress yet he had no connection to Scotland at all. He might argue that he thought it was smart but could it also equally be argued, using some of the argument put forward here that it is cultural appropriation. I doubt it.

If Stockton had gone dressed as a Robinsons golliwog, or a minstrel, or a black slave then I would wholeheartedly agree that would be racist but he has portrayed a character from a TV show, one that was much loved by many and who is a strong character in a show and not a caricature of a race.

[blackpoolhibs]

Of course there would be no outrage if someone was painted green for the hulk because painting your face green has never been a historical tool to oppress a green race (Not saying stockton is trying to oppress anyone - saying that painting your face black was a historical form of oppression).

Don't know how many times it has to be said that different historical context means that black people 'whiting' their skin is entirely different to white people 'blacking' their skin. Seeing it as hypocrisy is ignoring hundreds of years of history. That is why there is no outcry when it is done the other way. Historical context is what makes things potentially offensive. Again I am not saying stockton is a racist. I'm also not saying that I am offended by what stockton did, I am just surprised that people can't see why it is a questionable area.

If he'd gone as Jim Carey in Mask, would that have caused uproar in China?

[blackpoolhibs]

I agree, the difference for me is he has dressed up as a strong black character rather than, as the black and white minstrel show did, played a caricature of a black man.

There has been a comment earlier about whether or not we as Scots are offended by the term 'Jock', 'sweaty sock' or characterising scots as being tight. I remember an advert in the US many years ago which effectively had a Harry Lauder type Scotsman cartoon - red hair and beard, crooked stick, stooped back, over emphasis of 'r' sounds etc and the message was that the Scotsman was so miserly he was jealous of the job the bank being advertised did - or something like that. That is a caricature of a race and quite rightly can be judged to be offensive.

I was at a wedding where the English groom insisted on wearing highland dress yet he had no connection to Scotland at all. He might argue that he thought it was smart but could it also equally be argued, using some of the argument put forward here that it is cultural appropriation. I doubt it.

If Stockton had gone dressed as a Robinsons golliwog, or a minstrel, or a black slave then I would wholeheartedly agree that would be racist but he has portrayed a character from a TV show, one that was much loved by many and who is a strong character in a show and not a caricature of a race.

:top marksBest post on here by a mile. (in my opinion) :greengrin

[The Pointer]

I can't believe this has gone to 16 pages. Quite the most pointless thread ever - but a good laugh!

[matty_f]

He’s not laughing at black people. He’s dressed as an 80’s Tv icon. I was going to dress up as Darth Vader but better not now as he’s black so I may as well be a storm trooper!

Darth Vader was white, he just wore black clothes.

In the last Star Wars, ironically, the Storm trooper that went rouge was black.

Wearing black or white clothes is different to being black or white.

[blackpoolhibs]

If i dressed up as Michael Jackson, would that upset black people or white?

[easty]

If a white guys blacks himself up to dress like Mr T in a Forest, and there's nobody there to see him, is he doing a racism?

[Firestarter]

If i dressed up as Michael Jackson, would that upset black people or white?

The Rock says It doesn't matter who you'd upset.

[Clarence]

The guy is only 23, I doubt very much that he holds the affection for the BA character that a lot of people here are attributing to him. I think he's been in the shop and thought this outfit will get a reaction. I think it's a bit of a shan effort if you look at it as a representation of the character and at least he could have shaven his head to a have proper mowhawk - d'oh. This means that Mr T had culturally appropriated his hairstyle from the Native American people, so it's even worse than we first thought. Or it could be razor sharp satire designed to spark lively cultural debate.

[lapsedhibee]

The guy is only 23, I doubt very much that he holds the affection for the BA character that a lot of people here are attributing to him.

I don't think The A-Team was a live show.

[Firestarter]

The guy is only 23, I doubt very much that he holds the affection for the BA character that a lot of people here are attributing to him. I think he's been in the shop and thought this outfit will get a reaction. I think it's a bit of a shan effort if you look at it as a representation of the character and at least he could have shaven his head to a have proper mowhawk - d'oh. This means that Mr T had culturally appropriated his hairstyle from the Native American people, so it's even worse than we first thought. Or it could be razor sharp satire designed to spark lively cultural debate.


No worries posh boy. (8 mile joke)
Everyone knows Mr T. He's been on the snickers adverts for years too, fool.

[MKHIBEE]

If a white guys blacks himself up to dress like Mr T in a Forest, and there's nobody there to see him, is he doing a racism?

Only if they can hear him

[Hi Heid Yin]

I think it should be called total bollox.

I couldn't agree more.
The PC brigade have us all walking on egg shells.
If a black guy paints himself white and does an Elvis routine, so what! I'm white and I'm seriously not disturbed or bothered in the slightest.
Too many want to be victims and walk around with a huge chip on their shoulders.
The U.S. litigation culture has seeped into the culture of the UK and has a lot to answer for.

[KDY Hibs]

16 pages, wow.

[Hibrandenburg]

I agree, the difference for me is he has dressed up as a strong black character rather than, as the black and white minstrel show did, played a caricature of a black man.

There has been a comment earlier about whether or not we as Scots are offended by the term 'Jock', 'sweaty sock' or characterising scots as being tight. I remember an advert in the US many years ago which effectively had a Harry Lauder type Scotsman cartoon - red hair and beard, crooked stick, stooped back, over emphasis of 'r' sounds etc and the message was that the Scotsman was so miserly he was jealous of the job the bank being advertised did - or something like that. That is a caricature of a race and quite rightly can be judged to be offensive.

I was at a wedding where the English groom insisted on wearing highland dress yet he had no connection to Scotland at all. He might argue that he thought it was smart but could it also equally be argued, using some of the argument put forward here that it is cultural appropriation. I doubt it.

If Stockton had gone dressed as a Robinsons golliwog, or a minstrel, or a black slave then I would wholeheartedly agree that would be racist but he has portrayed a character from a TV show, one that was much loved by many and who is a strong character in a show and not a caricature of a race.

I tried saying similar in an earlier post but not as eloquent as this. Great post.

[SlickShoes]

I couldn't agree more.
The PC brigade have us all walking on egg shells.
If a black guy paints himself white and does an Elvis routine, so what! I'm white and I'm seriously not disturbed or bothered in the slightest.
Too many want to be victims and walk around with a huge chip on their shoulders.
The U.S. litigation culture has seeped into the culture of the UK and has a lot to answer for.

Victims of centuries of slavery, murder, torture and ridicule. How dare they have an opinion on the matter, if it doesn't bother you it shouldn't bother them.

[Glory Lurker]

Darth Vader was white, he just wore black clothes.

In the last Star Wars, ironically, the Storm trooper that went rouge was black.

Wearing black or white clothes is different to being black or white.

Great skin colour typo, “went rouge”. Was he accused of being Frenchist?

[beensaidbefore]

Victims of centuries of slavery, murder, torture and ridicule. How dare they have an opinion on the matter, if it doesn't bother you it shouldn't bother them.

Have 'they' been consulted on the matter?

As far as I can tell its only people on here who are offended.

[beensaidbefore]

I agree, the difference for me is he has dressed up as a strong black character rather than, as the black and white minstrel show did, played a caricature of a black man.

There has been a comment earlier about whether or not we as Scots are offended by the term 'Jock', 'sweaty sock' or characterising scots as being tight. I remember an advert in the US many years ago which effectively had a Harry Lauder type Scotsman cartoon - red hair and beard, crooked stick, stooped back, over emphasis of 'r' sounds etc and the message was that the Scotsman was so miserly he was jealous of the job the bank being advertised did - or something like that. That is a caricature of a race and quite rightly can be judged to be offensive.

I was at a wedding where the English groom insisted on wearing highland dress yet he had no connection to Scotland at all. He might argue that he thought it was smart but could it also equally be argued, using some of the argument put forward here that it is cultural appropriation. I doubt it.

If Stockton had gone dressed as a Robinsons golliwog, or a minstrel, or a black slave then I would wholeheartedly agree that would be racist but he has portrayed a character from a TV show, one that was much loved by many and who is a strong character in a show and not a caricature of a race.

Very nicely put.

[matty_f]

Great skin colour typo, “went rouge”. Was he accused of being Frenchist?

:hilarious:

[Liam6270]

Who cares? Far too many people get upset over the most ridiculous things these days

[majorhibs]

Who cares? Far too many people get upset over the most ridiculous things these days

Ridiculous, trivial, nowt to do with them things. Guess it makes them feel better, bein offended at everything :dunno:

[Stuart93]

Ridiculous, trivial, nowt to do with them things. Guess it makes them feel better, bein offended at everything :dunno:

For the record it doesn't offend me personally but a pretty ill-advised choice of costume for a pro footballer

[Captain Trips]

For the record it doesn't offend me personally but a pretty ill-advised choice of costume for a pro footballer

Well it shouldn't be ill advised it shouldn't be a thing of any note.

[majorhibs]

For the record it doesn't offend me personally but a pretty ill-advised choice of costume for a pro footballer

For the record, people offended by & commenting on loads doesn't offend me either. They can Police what they want. I'm not offended by that either.

[Stuart93]

Well it shouldn't be ill advised it shouldn't be a thing of any note.

Seems as though it has been

[Hi Heid Yin]

Victims of centuries of slavery, murder, torture and ridicule. How dare they have an opinion on the matter, if it doesn't bother you it shouldn't bother them.

Every working class man of every culture/nation has suffered discrimination, cruelty, torture, death at the hands of their so-called masters/superiors throughout history. Check out the history of the Slavic Russians, The Chinese Peasants, The Cambodian field workers, The Jews, Gosh, I could go on and on.
The past is the past is the past.
I personally am not responsible for what was/was not perpetrated/carried-out by my white ancestors. It is a nonsense to suggest that my generation should be burdened with some misguided collective guilt because of the behaviour of those that went before me.
Wars and violence are carried out by those who still harbour a sense of injustice. Little wonder the world is screwed up and in a PC mess.
Reparations are all very well, but where do we draw the line in apologising and moving on? At what point in history do we draw a line and say we go no further back?
There are a great many scots who don't hide their hatred of the English, but didn't Bannockburn take place in 1314 and have we not fought in wars alongside our English/fellow British for over 300 years?
Gandhi said "be the change in the world" Well, that change has to happen in every single individual, whether, black, white, yellow or brown. This change must include forgiving and moving on.

[Captain Trips]

Seems as though it has been

Yes it is and IMO it shouldn't be. If folk are bothered by it then absolutely that is up to them for me it's a nothing incident. If say a black English person put on make up to look white and then put on a kilt and pretended to be Scottish that equally would not bother me but it might some. I look at the context it is in.

[MGmick]

Hahaha I could take up the hobby of collecting all your toys you've just chucked out your pram 🙈

Ok. I'm going to play with you for a wee while cos you've clearly been hanging on waiting for somebody to talk to you. How old are you son?

[Mibbes Aye]

Who cares? Far too many people get upset over the most ridiculous things these days


Ridiculous, trivial, nowt to do with them things. Guess it makes them feel better, bein offended at everything :dunno:

There's a particular theme from a few posters, folk get accused of being "offended by everything".

Usually accompanied by questions about whether it would be the same if "it was a white person" etc etc

All those posts do is display an ignorance on the poster's part about how discrimination works, and how things like racism, sexism, and disablism exist in a context of hegemony and power.

These aren't difficult concepts to examine. They're really not.

The fact that someone can post on here suggests that they probably can find Google and read onwards.

Some should.

[Stuart93]

Ok. I'm going to play with you for a wee while cos you've clearly been hanging on waiting for somebody to talk to you. How old are you son?

"I'm going to play with you for a wee while"

"Son"

There's definitely someone who's needing to grow up and find a hobby & it's not me. How very sad.

[MGmick]

"I'm going to play with you for a wee while"

"Son"

There's definitely someone who's needing to grow up and find a hobby & it's not me. How very sad.

Answer?

[lapsedhibee]

Yes it is and IMO it shouldn't be. If folk are bothered by it then absolutely that is up to them for me it's a nothing incident. If say a black English person put on make up to look white and then put on a kilt and pretended to be Scottish that equally would not bother me but it might some. I look at the context it is in.

19871

:grr: :panic:

[Stuart93]

Answer?

Look "son" bore off. My age has nothing to do with you.

[majorhibs]

There's a particular theme from a few posters, folk get accused of being "offended by everything".

Usually accompanied by questions about whether it would be the same if "it was a white person" etc etc

All those posts do is display an ignorance on the poster's part about how discrimination works, and how things like racism, sexism, and disablism exist in a context of hegemony and power.

These aren't difficult concepts to examine. They're really not.

The fact that someone can post on here suggests that they probably can find Google and read onwards.

Some should.

When I worked in Nigeria for 2.5 years, I was subjected to daily abuse, it was the done thing, because I was working in Nigeria, & not Nigerian. Was I aware of it? Definately. Did I care? Definately not.

[Captain Trips]

This is 100% about context, absolutely people might find it funny some stupid some maybe yeah racist, but the bottom line is whether a good or bad idea he did it as a fancy dress idea and that is all there is to it. I just do not understand how we are talking about what went on years ago and discrimination etc. If this was his intention then yeah but it wasn't and isn't.

[MGmick]

Look "son" bore off. My age has nothing to do with you.

Fair point. I apologise.

So, to reiterate my earlier point, what is it about wearing black make up to play a role that offends you so much? Is it disrespectful? If a sighted black guy plyed the part of Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder in a production would that be racist or blind/see ist?

[Mibbes Aye]

When I worked in Nigeria for 2.5 years, I was subjected to daily abuse, it was the done thing, because I was working in Nigeria, & not Nigerian. Was I aware of it? Definately. Did I care? Definately not.

Thank you for your post.

I think this is one for a different thread but it sounds like you went through a harrowing time?

I think you would get a lot of replies if you started a thread in the Holy Ground about your experience. My sense is that there's a few posters on here who would have tales to tell but many might be European?

[Stuart93]

Fair point. I apologise.

So, to reiterate my earlier point, what is it about wearing black make up to play a role that offends you so much? Is it disrespectful? If a sighted black guy plyed the part of Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder in a production would that be racist or blind/see ist?

If you were to actually read my posts I've said a number of times it doesn't offend me personally but would probably offend some people & thought a pro footballer would've chose something that couldn't be seen as offensive