Happy St Andrews Day

[Colr]

Anyone do anything for this?

I see if as the gateway to Chistmas. After this it’s December and Christmassy things can begin.

[JeMeSouviens]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29-LRuuqFT0

[Hibrandenburg]

I think it would be more fitting to hold a bank holiday on Burn's Day in honour of our national bard who has his place in our humanitarian enlightenment rather than another holiday based on more religious twiddle twaddle.

[RyeSloan]

I think it would be more fitting to hold a bank holiday on Burn's Day in honour of our national bard who has his place in our humanitarian enlightenment rather than another holiday based on more religious twiddle twaddle.

IF we need a national day St Andrews day certainly doesn't seem to work...it's at a poor time of year (freezing and dark) with the ever earlier Christmas stuff being dominant.

Burns day is already a stand alone thing and I would much prefer a rather more forward looking type of event.

I'm far from convinced we need a Scotland Day but if there is to be such a thing let's shift it to a better time of year. Personally I'd be tempted to coincide with the opening of the Edinburgh Festival, which would at least make it in August at a time when the world is watching anyway [emoji106]

[Hibrandenburg]

IF we need a national day St Andrews day certainly doesn't seem to work...it's at a poor time of year (freezing and dark) with the ever earlier Christmas stuff being dominant.

Burns day is already a stand alone thing and I would much prefer a rather more forward looking type of event.

I'm far from convinced we need a Scotland Day but if there is to be such a thing let's shift it to a better time of year. Personally I'd be tempted to coincide with the opening of the Edinburgh Festival, which would at least make it in August at a time when the world is watching anyway [emoji106]

Especially in today's world Burns is forward thinking.

[snooky]

I think it would be more fitting to hold a bank holiday on Burn's Day in honour of our national bard who has his place in our humanitarian enlightenment rather than another holiday based on more religious twiddle twaddle.

I thought Burns Day was 5th November? :whistle:

[Moulin Yarns]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DP3izhQW4AEAVCg.jpg

[NAE NOOKIE]

St Andrew's day has never been a big deal to be honest ... as other folk are saying Burns night is far more recognised and celebrated.

It is time we had a national day be that St Andrew or Burns that wasn't held in the middle of bloody winter ..... We really should figure out a Scottish national day that didn't involve the risk of hypothermia or frostbite.

What about the 6th of April ...... the date of the declaration of Arbroath and one of the worlds great examples of a country putting in writing its right to exist as a sovereign nation ... far more appropriate than St Andrew or Burns and likely to be a damned sight warmer :greengrin

:saltireflag

[cabbageandribs1875]

god bless ST Andrew :saltireflag

[Slavers]

I think it would be more fitting to hold a bank holiday on Burn's Day in honour of our national bard who has his place in our humanitarian enlightenment rather than another holiday based on more religious twiddle twaddle.

Is this appropriate? FLA have been called out for their intolerance towards religion.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I think it would be more fitting to hold a bank holiday on Burn's Day in honour of our national bard who has his place in our humanitarian enlightenment rather than another holiday based on more religious twiddle twaddle.

Oops .... that's our flag oot the windae as well then :greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

Maybe we should wait until we're actually a country before worrying about having a national day. :rolleyes:

[Hibrandenburg]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DP3izhQW4AEAVCg.jpg

Love it. Stealing it too.

[Hibrandenburg]

Is this appropriate? FLA have been called out for their intolerance towards religion.

Yep, religion is not above criticism and I'm not out organising marches against one particular religion. If you want to practice your religion then crack on, just don't expect me to join you or agree with you.

[Hibrandenburg]

Oops .... that's our flag oot the windae as well then :greengrin

Ach, that was only introduced because it's easier to make. I prefer the lion anyway. :wink:

[Peevemor]

Love it. Stealing it too.

Me too.

[Slavers]

Yep, religion is not above criticism and I'm not out organising marches against one particular religion. If you want to practice your religion then crack on, just don't expect me to join you or agree with you.

Fair enough but it seems to me in some circles that any criticism of Islam is deemed to be islamophobic but Christianity is fair game to be insulted.

[Colr]

I think it would be more fitting to hold a bank holiday on Burn's Day in honour of our national bard who has his place in our humanitarian enlightenment rather than another holiday based on more religious twiddle twaddle.

We can do both, surely? Burns Night is great as it give us something t do in January which is pretty pish otherwise.

[Moulin Yarns]

We can do both, surely? Burns Night is great as it give us something t do in January which is pretty pish otherwise.

Or go to Celtic Connections :greengrin There is plenty happening if you look for it.

Edit: Just realised you are stuck out in the sticks, away from civilisation.

[-Jonesy-]

Maybe we should wait until we're actually a country before worrying about having a national day. :rolleyes:

We are, albeit under the yoke of another.
Crazy statement.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Maybe we should wait until we're actually a country before worrying about having a national day. :rolleyes:

Agree, sadly.

[beensaidbefore]

Fair enough but it seems to me in some circles that any criticism of Islam is deemed to be islamophobic but Christianity is fair game to be insulted.

Agree. Christianity and straight white males are the only ones who are fair game these days. Everyone else is protected by some form of ism or group.

[Hibrandenburg]

Agree. Christianity and straight white males are the only ones who are fair game these days. Everyone else is protected by some form of ism or group.

Now that's not really true is it?

[easty]

Agree. Christianity and straight white males are the only ones who are fair game these days. Everyone else is protected by some form of ism or group.

Fair game? Does Christianity get a hard time? Where? When? From whom?

[Lancs Harp]

Happy St Andrews day from South of the Border

I thought April 11th would be a good national day for you guys, after all it was that day you became world champions wasnt it? :wink:

[beensaidbefore]

Now that's not really true is it?

I stand to be corrected, but at this moment in time I struggle to think of an group of folk in society who do not have some kind of protection. Perhaps with the exception of gingers!😀

I regularly hear men being spoken about in a collective way as if we are all some kind if sick oppressive perverts. Furthermore there seems to be a constant attack on any male behaviours that are not in keeping with feminist values. When opposition is put forward, the favourite line is, society is so misogynistic that us men can't see it etc etc. I find us to open for a slagging in a way other groups are not.

[beensaidbefore]

Fair game? Does Christianity get a hard time? Where? When? From whom?

I think christian values are regularly challenged in the media and portrayed as being backward and closed minded.

If a person is an active christian and disagrees with eg. Abortion, or homosexuality then their view can be called out without reproach, it seems. I haven't seen other religions being publicly chastised/condemned in the same way. I'm pretty sure Judaism and Islam promote similar teachings, but are not regularly criticised in the press and on TV. If they have I must have missed it.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Ach, that was only introduced because it's easier to make. I prefer the lion anyway. :wink:

You might well prefer the Lion Rampant mate ... it is a fine flag ... Unfortunately there are legally only about 3 people in the whole of Scotland allowed to use it and one of them is the queen. In fact, when you look at the stranglehold the Lord Lyon exercises over the Saltire, I refer you to the ridiculous edicts against its use by Scottish football clubs, it can hardly be regarded as the flag of the 'people' either ... at least not until it's taken out of the control of a body which represents a medieval time warp telling the peasants what they can and cant do.

Perhaps its time Scotland had a new flag, one that does not have religious connotations and cant be claimed by the elitist 'establishment' .... let them have their coats of arms and all that stuff, no problem with that ... but a peoples flag should belong to the people and who can use it and in what circumstances should be determined by them.

Power to the people !!!

[Hibrandenburg]

I stand to be corrected, but at this moment in time I struggle to think of an group of folk in society who do not have some kind of protection. Perhaps with the exception of gingers!😀

I regularly hear men being spoken about in a collective way as if we are all some kind if sick oppressive perverts. Furthermore there seems to be a constant attack on any male behaviours that are not in keeping with feminist values. When opposition is put forward, the favourite line is, society is so misogynistic that us men can't see it etc etc. I find us to open for a slagging in a way other groups are not.

There's an argument to be had that the male of the species has been given a bad rap and whether or not that is deserved. However to try and argue that Christian White males have been systematically dealt an unfair hand in life similar to black people, Muslims, Jews, homosexuals or any other minority is ridiculous. Most people who take this line of argumentation make the mistake of mixing up prejudice with racism or homophobia. It's one thing being discriminated against by someone who holds a prejudice against who you are and being discriminated against systematically in a culture that alienates you because of who you are.

[Hibrandenburg]

You might well prefer the Lion Rampant mate ... it is a fine flag ... Unfortunately there are legally only about 3 people in the whole of Scotland allowed to use it and one of them is the queen. In fact, when you look at the stranglehold the Lord Lyon exercises over the Saltire, I refer you to the ridiculous edicts against its use by Scottish football clubs, it can hardly be regarded as the flag of the 'people' either ... at least not until it's taken out of the control of a body which represents a medieval time warp telling the peasants what they can and cant do.

Perhaps its time Scotland had a new flag, one that does not have religious connotations and cant be claimed by the elitist 'establishment' .... let them have their coats of arms and all that stuff, no problem with that ... but a peoples flag should belong to the people and who can use it and in what circumstances should be determined by them.

Power to the people !!!

Oh oh, flag debate. :offski:

[beensaidbefore]

There's an argument to be had that the male of the species has been given a bad rap and whether or not that is deserved. However to try and argue that Christian White males have been systematically dealt an unfair hand in life similar to black people, Muslims, Jews, homosexuals or any other minority is ridiculous. Most people who take this line of argumentation make the mistake of mixing up prejudice with racism or homophobia. It's one thing being discriminated against by someone who holds a prejudice against who you are and being discriminated against systematically in a culture that alienates you because of who you are.

Sorry that's not what I was meaning.

Basically, Christians, both women and men have beliefs which can be dismissed by the general public without any real reproach. If the same level if disrespect was shown to other religions I feel more of a fuss would be made about it.

Separate to that, I feel men also get a bum deal in many ways without having the ability to bring out the 'I'm only being treated like this because I'm....', line.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Oh oh, flag debate. :offski:

Luv it :greengrin

:flag:

[easty]

I think christian values are regularly challenged in the media and portrayed as being backward and closed minded.

If a person is an active christian and disagrees with eg. Abortion, or homosexuality then their view can be called out without reproach, it seems. I haven't seen other religions being publicly chastised/condemned in the same way. I'm pretty sure Judaism and Islam promote similar teachings, but are not regularly criticised in the press and on TV. If they have I must have missed it.

For me, they are backward and closed minded. I don't think they're commonly/regularly attacked for it though. Very rarely.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Fair game? Does Christianity get a hard time? Where? When? From whom?

There was the Greggs sausage roll thing. I cant imagine they would have done that with Mohammed or Moses.

[Hibrandenburg]

For me, they are backward and closed minded. I don't think they're commonly/regularly attacked for it though. Very rarely.

Agreed, holding values based on the teachings of a book written 2 millennia ago and with the intention uniting/controlling the masses can't be described as anything other than backward thinking. Same applies for all other religions. But hey ho, if that's what folks want to do then so be it. I just draw the line when they expect others to share those values or when those values encroach on the lives of those who don't share them.

[easty]

There was the Greggs sausage roll thing. I cant imagine they would have done that with Mohammed or Moses.

How could you incorporate Mohammed into a sausage roll add at Christmas?

I suppose they could have had Moses reading out the "10 commandments of eating a sausage roll", with a Santa hat on. That would have worked as well as the one the actually used.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Agreed, holding values based on the teachings of a book written 2 millennia ago and with the intention uniting/controlling the masses can't be described as anything other than backward thinking. Same applies for all other religions. But hey ho, if that's what folks want to do then so be it. I just draw the line when they expect others to share those values or when those values encroach on the lives of those who don't share them.

Without getting too much into it I don't think the passage of time is much of a criteria to judge something on .... if something is worthwhile or has value then how long ago it was written is not IMO a reason to put it aside.

Even if you don't believe the bible is inspired by divine intervention if you read the New Testament the bits of it which are directly attributed to Jesus, which is a tiny proportion of the book, are pretty interesting .... stuff like you should "love one another" and "turn the other cheek" seem to be very much at odds with the idea that Christianity is responsible for so much evil, which there's no denying a lot of its alleged practitioners throughout history have been.
That's the bibles big drawback I suppose, it is open to interpretation in large parts and in cases like that folk will pick and choose the bits that suit them, a lot of the time to the detriment of what it is supposed to represent. From what I've seen and read the Koran appears to be no different.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is totally dismissing all aspects of religion is kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater .... there's plenty of examples of people driven by their religion doing wonderful things to the benefit of their fellow man, often at huge cost to themselves. And yes, I know you don't need religion to be a good selfless person.

The funny thing about the bible is that it predicts its own downfall ...... As the modern era progresses religion is indeed becoming less and less popular and in the psyche of the worlds population less and less relevant, especially in the 'developed' world. You often get church leaders on the telly bemoaning falling congregations and the general turning away from 'the faith' .... I'm surprised at their surprise because if they bothered to thumb through their copy of the New Testament they might notice that that's exactly what it says will happen :greengrin

Anyway ......... how is this a 'flag debate' ... c'mon folks :I'm waiti

[Pretty Boy]

If people use religion as a vessel for their own prejudices and intolerance then they are fair game for both opposition and being made the target of jokes. Many religious people I seem to encounter appear to use their religious beliefs as a mask for their own hypocrisy. Whether I believe that Jesus was God made man or a slightly eccentric hippy who patrolled the Middle East 2000 or so years ago is irrelevant; my view has always been that were he around today he would be far more concerned with the continuing war, drought and famine, slavery, religious and political corruption and preventable disease and death than he would with whether 2 men love, or lust after, each other. I can't help but think he would be more, or at least as, affronted by people harassing vulnerable and emotional women outside abortion clinics in his name than he would be with what was going on inside. The Bible is about as clear that eating shellfish is forbidden as it is about homosexuality yet I rarely see people protesting outside restaurants that sell prawn cocktail or harassing people buying lobsters. As I say it's hypocrisy, because to live life exactly as the Bible commands would lead to all kinds of contradictions, and it's worthy of both debate and to be made fun of. I extend that to all religions as well. Whether that is the Imams preaching a hateful version of Islam by selectively choosing the verses of the Quran they follow and how they interpret them, the single mindedness of the ultra conservative Jewish movements or cuddly Buddhism being exposed in all it's glory as the legend of Aang San Suu Kyi unravels before our eyes with the crisis of the Rohingya in Myanmar.

Of course Christianity is the butt of more jokes in this country. It's the religion most of us have grown up with and it's still a visible presence in most of our lives to some degree. Our head of state is still the head of the Anglican church and the PM still advises her on religious appointments. We still have Christian programming on TV on a weekly basis. The reason most of us can laugh about jokes or acknowledge criticisms about Christianity is because we can relate to them and we may have experienced the issues being spoken about.

[Sylar]

I inadvertantly clicked on page 2 of this rather than 1, and I find it absolutely amusing reading the content vs thread title! I'm now going back to page 1 to see how the **** we got here :greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

I inadvertantly clicked on page 2 of this rather than 1, and I find it absolutely amusing reading the content vs thread title! I'm now going back to page 1 to see how the **** we got here :greengrin

Without reading back through the thread I suspect I might have slightly nudged the steering wheel. :greengrin

[heretoday]

More tea, Vicar?

[Colr]

I inadvertantly clicked on page 2 of this rather than 1, and I find it absolutely amusing reading the content vs thread title! I'm now going back to page 1 to see how the **** we got here :greengrin

Christmas can now be indulged.

I've made a stollen which should be ready on Sunday and a ton of mincemeat for pies.

I used to like Furstenberg Weinachtsbeir but I haven't seen it in years!!