Hibs Accounts for Last Season Post Loss of nearly £300 000

[Ronniekirk]

Some were predicting another small Profit but be interest to hear from those with Financial credentials once Full Report is available
Includes improved Advance Season Ticket Sales and Cummings Transfer fee



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[CropleyWasGod]

It won't include this season's ST sales.

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[Ronniekirk]

It won't include this season's ST sales.

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Turnover rose to 7 . 7 Million which seems impressive to me


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[Golden Bear]

Where are these figures available to see?

[Steve-O]

Can’t really understand how we’ve made a loss?

[Ronniekirk]

Where are these figures available to see?

Article in the feed Hibs news 24 /7 from article in Evening News Shareholders should get info through post


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[frazeHFC]

What were our losses the previous couple of seasons? With the huge crowds and profits from cup final merch I'd have assumed we'd have been well in profit last year..

[Ronniekirk]

What were our losses the previous couple of seasons? With the huge crowds and profits from cup final merch I'd have assumed we'd have been well in profit last year..

We made a profit last year of around £200,000 i think it was but losses the two seasons before that i think


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[CropleyWasGod]

What were our losses the previous couple of seasons? With the huge crowds and profits from cup final merch I'd have assumed we'd have been well in profit last year..There was no parachute payment that season, unlike the previous 2. And only 1 cup run. No league games against Rangers.

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[scoopyboy]

Some were predicting another small Profit but be interest to hear from those with Financial credentials once Full Report is available
Includes improved Advance Season Ticket Sales and Cummings Transfer fee



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Hibs changed financial year to 1st July to June 30th so not sure Cummings fee would be included.

Can't remember actual date.

[Ronniekirk]

Hibs changed financial year to 1st July to June 30th so not sure Cummings fee would be included.

Can't remember actual date.

The Evening News Article states it does unless i am misreading it

Just checked again and its not clear Talks about Cummings leaving bring balanced by some familiar faces returning
We also had a cash balance at the end if May of 3 .5 Million Up a Million on last time


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[greenlex]

What we need is an anonymous benefactor.

[CropleyWasGod]

The Evening News Article states it does unless i am misreading it

Just checked again and its not clear Talks about Cummings leaving bring balanced by some familiar faces returning
We also had a cash balance at the end if May of 3 .5 Million Up a Million on last time


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JC signed for NF on 17th June, so the money from his sale will be in these accounts. It won't be in turnover, and whether the loss figure quoted is before or after that remains to be seen. I'd rather wait for the actual accounts than rely on the EEN :greengrin

The increased cash balance reflects the advanced ST sales, but, again, that won't be included in the turnover or loss figures.

[Iain G]

What we need is an anonymous benefactor.

Ann who? :wink:

[Hibs4185]

Turnover of £7.7 million whilst playing in the championship is incredible mostly due to us the fans backing the club.

Hearts turnover was £11.3 million and I think Aberdeen were roughly the same. Playing in the SPL is worth £1.5-£2 million a year and if you add UEFA solidarity payments which the clubs received from Celtic's champions league appearances then we are not far off. I read Hearts accounts and they received over £2 million from UEFA.

If we hold on to third and qualify for Europe, add in possible fees for McGinn etc and we are in a very healthy position without the need of mystery benefactors.

An an amazing time to be a Hibby and all positive going forward GGTH

[One Day Soon]

What we need is an anonymous benefactor.


We have a benefactor, he isn't anonymous and he's committed to both the club and the community. Which is why we aren't the Edinburgh team known as the Poppy Thieves.

[greenginger]

Comparing our small loss with the Yams slight gain is a bit misleading.

Our accounts would include a figure of around £ 600,000 for depreciation of our infrastructure. Across town there would be no such debit as there place depreciated a long time ago. :greengrin

They also received a far greater league payment than us. Hopefully that position will be reversed this season.

[Peevemor]

Turnover of £7.7 million whilst playing in the championship is incredible mostly due to us the fans backing the club.

Hearts turnover was £11.3 million and I think Aberdeen were roughly the same. Playing in the SPL is worth £1.5-£2 million a year and if you add UEFA solidarity payments which the clubs received from Celtic's champions league appearances then we are not far off. I read Hearts accounts and they received over £2 million from UEFA.

If we hold on to third and qualify for Europe, add in possible fees for McGinn etc and we are in a very healthy position without the need of mystery benefactors.

An an amazing time to be a Hibby and all positive going forward GGTH


There's also £1.5m from FOH toward working capital in their accounts (I'd imagine), though we have to wait and see if the share/HSL cash is included in ours.

[Caversham Green]

There's also £1.5m from FOH toward working capital in their accounts (I'd imagine), though we have to wait and see if the share/HSL cash is included in ours.

The amounts from FOH and HSL don't affect the profit/loss figures. HoMFC's anonymous donation does, and without it they made a loss of £221k after player sales of £214k. If our loss is after the sale of JC it's actually a bit concerning depending on how much we got from that sale.

As an aside, Hearts continue to take money from their charity - nearly 22k this time.

[jacomo]

Thankfully we are now out of the Championship.

We can carry this loss as a one-off but couldn't continue like that. As said above though, revenue will be significantly higher this season, not least because so many of us are backing the team.

[Michael]

We had a small profit the previous year and I can't remember what it was the year before. Overall we've probably done okay for spending 3 years in the Championship.

[Mikey]

If our loss is after the sale of JC it's actually a bit concerning depending on how much we got from that sale.



I wonder if the amount will be obvious in the accounts. The rumoured figure is around £500k.

Once they drop through the letterbox I'll see if I can scan them in and upload them.

[Hibs4185]

There's also £1.5m from FOH toward working capital in their accounts (I'd imagine), though we have to wait and see if the share/HSL cash is included in ours.

FOH money isn't included in their turnover-dunno why. I took a screenshot just now but I amn't allowed to post attachments. I think they show the FOH as a sort of savings scheme without going straight into the club.

Gate receipts £4.296
sponsorship £826
Broadcasting rights £244
commercial £2.672
uefa £2.578
Other income £639

they obviously got pumped out of Europe early but still it's a hefty payment from UEFA.

Also shows how bad the SPFL's TV deal is. £244k a year. Clubs in England get that a week.

But it does show we should get money from UEFA next year regardless of if we qualify or not-I think we will though, the extra money from competing in SPFL and tv money although it isn't much. Last year the team finishing 6th got £1.3 million. Third is closer to £2 million and Europe. Third could bring in £4 million alone.

The headline figure of a small loss isn't that important though. There are hundreds of factors which could give you a profit or loss either way but the most important thing is that the turnover is healthy, cash at bank is very strong and there is scope for the turnover to increase massively.

I'd think £11-12 million next year without any transfer fees. Add on £3-5 million for McGinn and we are in a very enviable position with no external debt.

[Ozyhibby]

We had a small profit the previous year and I can't remember what it was the year before. Overall we've probably done okay for spending 3 years in the Championship.

Wonder what the total cost of our three years in the championship was? Must be massive.


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[DarlingtonHibee]

FOH money isn't included in their turnover-dunno why. I took a screenshot just now but I amn't allowed to post attachments. I think they show the FOH as a sort of savings scheme without going straight into the club.

Gate receipts £4.296
sponsorship £826
Broadcasting rights £244
commercial £2.672
uefa £2.578
Other income £639

they obviously got pumped out of Europe early but still it's a hefty payment from UEFA.

Also shows how bad the SPFL's TV deal is. £244k a year. Clubs in England get that a week.

But it does show we should get money from UEFA next year regardless of if we qualify or not-I think we will though, the extra money from competing in SPFL and tv money although it isn't much. Last year the team finishing 6th got £1.3 million. Third is closer to £2 million and Europe. Third could bring in £4 million alone.

The headline figure of a small loss isn't that important though. There are hundreds of factors which could give you a profit or loss either way but the most important thing is that the turnover is healthy, cash at bank is very strong and there is scope for the turnover to increase massively.

I'd think £11-12 million next year without any transfer fees. Add on £3-5 million for McGinn and we are in a very enviable position with no external debt.

TV deal is a joke, thanks Doncaster

[CropleyWasGod]

I wonder if the amount will be obvious in the accounts. The rumoured figure is around £500k.

Once they drop through the letterbox I'll see if I can scan them in and upload them.

The bit to look at is "gain on intangible assets".

We write off the signing-fees over the length of the player's contract. So, the "gain" is the amount received less the signing-on fee.

Was JC the only player we sold that season? If so, we will be able to deduce the minimum amount we got for him.

[Caversham Green]

I wonder if the amount will be obvious in the accounts. The rumoured figure is around £500k.

Once they drop through the letterbox I'll see if I can scan them in and upload them.

It should be unless we sold anyone else between 1 July 2016 and 30 June 2017. I assume the compo for Stubbs was in the 2016 accounts - they show a gain of £332k on 'player' sales and a £150k operating loss.

Hearts have actually made their accounts available on their website - credit to them for that.

[CropleyWasGod]

It should be unless we sold anyone else between 1 July 2016 and 30 June 2017. I assume the compo for Stubbs was in the 2016 accounts - they show a gain of £332k on 'player' sales and a £150k operating loss.

Hearts have actually made their accounts available on their website - credit to them for that.

So have we now.

I'll race you :greengrin

Edit... no we haven't, it's just Rod's covering letter.

This bit suggests the loss was after the JC sale??

Record attendances at Easter Road Stadium allied with another Scottish Cup semi-final tie and player trading at the end of the Season resulted in a loss for the financial year of £277k, some way short of our financial target which is to at least break even.

[Sioux]

The amounts from FOH and HSL don't affect the profit/loss figures. HoMFC's anonymous donation does, and without it they made a loss of £221k after player sales of £214k. If our loss is after the sale of JC it's actually a bit concerning depending on how much we got from that sale.

As an aside, Hearts continue to take money from their charity - nearly 22k this time.

That's a bit of a coincidence is it not, when compared to their loan fee mentioned earlier.

[Caversham Green]

So have we now.

I'll race you :greengrin

Edit... no we haven't, it's just Rod's covering letter.

This bit suggests the loss was after the JC sale??

Record attendances at Easter Road Stadium allied with another Scottish Cup semi-final tie and player trading at the end of the Season resulted in a loss for the financial year of £277k, some way short of our financial target which is to at least break even.

Yep, I see the statement's on the website now, but the accounts aren't. I agree about the loss being after the sale of JC - I suppose when you consider the operating loss of £150k last year was after the cup win and League Cup final a large loss this time is probably not that surprising.


That's a bit of a coincidence is it not, when compared to their loan fee mentioned earlier.

I don't think there's a connection but I do wonder how a self-proclaimed community club can justify charging its own charity £22k.

[CropleyWasGod]

I don't think there's a connection but I do wonder how a self-proclaimed community club can justify charging its own charity £22k.

I had a look at this earlier this year, and I think I came to the conclusion that it was for admin costs of the charity that HMFC had incurred, and had recharged to the charity. If the charity has been funded by a third-party for those costs, then it's understandable. Big IF, though.

[Caversham Green]

I had a look at this earlier this year, and I think I came to the conclusion that it was for admin costs of the charity that HMFC had incurred, and had recharged to the charity. If the charity has been funded by a third-party for those costs, then it's understandable. Big IF, though.

According to the note this year HoMFC invoiced the charity £21,859. I know their grasp of the English language seems rather tenuous but that doesn't suggest a recharge to me.

[CropleyWasGod]

According to the note this year HoMFC invoiced the charity £21,859. I know their grasp of the English language seems rather tenuous but that doesn't suggest a recharge to me.

Yeah, I see that. I think I looked at it from the Big Hearts accounts POV.

Hire of facilities? The type of costs that an external funder would be expecting to pay for? (not that i'm trying to exonerate them here.... :cb)

[Bostonhibby]

The amounts from FOH and HSL don't affect the profit/loss figures. HoMFC's anonymous donation does, and without it they made a loss of £221k after player sales of £214k. If our loss is after the sale of JC it's actually a bit concerning depending on how much we got from that sale.

As an aside, Hearts continue to take money from their charity - nearly 22k this time.How might they be making money from their charity this time around?

I'm sure it'll be legal but if your as committed to these charities as they claim to be, and having bumped them before why not give every financial benefit to the charity?

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[andybev1]

In response to someone asking where info can be found.
I have not looked into it properly but companys house always have info on businesses and hibs is included, here https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC005323


financial statement from year ending june 2016
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-prod/docs/C9eRiY1TYXqv6rkstd2DTnMM40qeCusT7jMODkdYagE/application-pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=ASIAJRU2OETMSSDVBQRA&Expires=1511177977&Signature=kGSItQ2D%2BWtszrwYKPEn28aL9Lg%3D&x-amz-security-token=FQoDYXdzENP%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEa DF5tyz6XFBRTfix9iiK3Az3ZdWW2CRIhVwmIJxJxT3ff%2FOdy KazHMxb6qNSrW644v8g8R7nJITM5CLm3x9y2MQLma4WpR0GFVX SRpzitSmko%2BpoQRH9FK1VxuIosggjCX40SqCYxW0FCydhFMf DRd2VZw2hvEMchN7Zo%2FdsDGSpdd9IFxr4PTNHp1RniQlOoo5 vUAZqnn2RE%2BLH7ev5USZ0%2B2XTDC%2BLLeqYc8c2iUtLMRl h%2FmxKQUfRM1rS0i83zThrOLRleVYcBF%2BfWoBfs1LfoDBCS DbActKdKBKMpom2oVDoc7tTN6febxmR4TR3WhTDNTH4eyZIFyi jRNd%2BjvfUcXVpSfEEipe3Q%2F6KGSr2IGkI5I630fA4nFVfO 1mdUwlrmDBqp5IjLZ4Gv%2Fyt1SpTZz3%2FtTr3r%2B8gzOtOX dtHC9BZjtxYaOIQpL8ObdsKR1PwrFXMC%2FgSAxr3kiOLnp7js 2sOdFlzNKnHHZpwzwUpubeFap2YIu0egMD6XhXfrbN0GOXwIUj lx1P1Ck%2B1mBy7kaV32AwclC0GIHrVgDe4X3R9XUs3e0a2JBC x8Blb5GKOL1eH73%2BVO8ObZchG4YeyPuikEsxoo7r%2FK0AU% 3D

[Callyballybe]

Bit confused here, the £2mil payment Hearts got from UEFA is purely down to them having one game in Europe (or was it two?) during the qualifying rounds of the Europa League? That sounds alot of money just for the preliminary rounds - of which we were in as well. Would we therefore not expect to see a reasonable amount (compared to that anyway) for our round against Brondby?

I know that all SPFL teams got approximately £300k for Celtic's participation in the Champions League last year. However, even if this was included in the 2mil, that's still a fair whack for them to receive.

[CropleyWasGod]

Bit confused here, the £2mil payment Hearts got from UEFA is purely down to them having one game in Europe (or was it two?) during the qualifying rounds of the Europa League? That sounds alot of money just for the preliminary rounds - of which we were in as well. Would we therefore not expect to see a reasonable amount (compared to that anyway) for our round against Brondby?

I know that all SPFL teams got approximately £300k for Celtic's participation in the Champions League last year. However, even if this was included in the 2mil, that's still a fair whack for them to receive.

They had 3 games in that period. Presumably, the 4th (which was in June 16) is also included in these accounts.

But yeah, there's obviously money to be made.

[Caversham Green]

How might they be making money from their charity this time around?

I'm sure it'll be legal but if your as committed to these charities as they claim to be, and having bumped them before why not give every financial benefit to the charity?

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Exactly. No doubt the charge is legitimate but £22k is a huge sum to most charities - a company with an £11m turnover charging that amount to its own charity seems pretty low to me.

[Callyballybe]

They had 3 games in that period. Presumably, the 4th (which was in June 16) is also included in these accounts.

But yeah, there's obviously money to be made.

Thanks CWG. Apologies, I meant one or two rounds in Europe rather than one or two games.

With our preliminary round against Brondby, I'd be interested to see how much we received. But as it was in July, does this mean it won't come through on this years accounts?

Does make you think though; if they had actually managed to get past the Maltese team, how much more would they have gotten from UEFA? And just how important getting third this year could be if 4 games in the qualifying rounds is returning that amount of prize money.

[Bostonhibby]

Exactly. No doubt the charge is legitimate but £22k is a huge sum to most charities - a company with an £11m turnover charging that amount to its own charity seems pretty low to me.Probably made the decision that if they can't just take the cash and use it as they please they'll charge them for something instead.

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[truehibernian]

Am I right in saying the difference in prize money from being top 6 in the SPFL and winners in the Championship can be as much as £1 million -£1.5 million ?

I think getting out the Championship is a financial god send, but also think we've done really well to cut our cloth, back the team, and still be in rude health :aok:

[scoopyboy]

Should be remembered that we paid back £500,000 of "our debt".

We pay back £41,667 per month standing order or direct debit.

Interest free of course.

[CropleyWasGod]

Should be remembered that we paid back £500,000 of "our debt".

We pay back £41,667 per month standing order or direct debit.

Interest free of course.

That doesn't affect our profit, though.

But we should celebrate the fact that we are decreasing our debt, whereas HMFC are increasing theirs. :greengrin

[GlesgaeHibby]

Am I right in saying the difference in prize money from being top 6 in the SPFL and winners in the Championship can be as much as £1 million -£1.5 million ?

I think getting out the Championship is a financial god send, but also think we've done really well to cut our cloth, back the team, and still be in rude health :aok:

IIRC, I think the prize money for winning the championship is around £500k and nearer £2m for 3rd place in Premiership.

[Mikey]

Once they drop through the letterbox I'll see if I can scan them in and upload them.

Nowt in the post today.

[scoopyboy]

That doesn't affect our profit, though.

But we should celebrate the fact that we are decreasing our debt, whereas HMFC are increasing theirs. :greengrin

But if we hadn't paid back that £500,000 would we not have finished £200,000 in front rather than £300,000 behind?

Not very good with balance sheets as you can probably tell CWG.

Anyhow at least we are due £500,000 less than at this time last year.

[JimBHibees]

IIRC, I think the prize money for winning the championship is around £500k and nearer £2m for 3rd place in Premiership.

I would be surprised if winning the championship was as much as that. Can remember I think it was the Ross county chairman/owner indicating they only got 60k for winning it? assuming there has been some changes in between time

[CropleyWasGod]

But if we hadn't paid back that £500,000 would we not have finished £200,000 in front rather than £300,000 behind?

Not very good with balance sheets as you can probably tell CWG.

Anyhow at least we are due £500,000 less than at this time last year.

Not in profit terms.

Out of our profit, or loss, we have to find the repayments on the loan. So, in crude cash terms, we're now £800k down. However, we also have the shares money being paid in to compensate for that; that doesn't affect profit either. How much that is, I don't know yet, until I see the accounts; however, RP's statement tells me it isn't quite enough to cover the loss and the loan. I'm guessing about £700k.

So, I reckon we're about £100k down in cash terms.

[DarlingtonHibee]

Not in profit terms.

Out of our profit, or loss, we have to find the repayments on the loan. So, in crude cash terms, we're now £800k down. However, we also have the shares money being paid in to compensate for that; that doesn't affect profit either. How much that is, I don't know yet, until I see the accounts; however, RP's statement tells me it isn't quite enough to cover the loss and the loan. I'm guessing about £700k.

So, I reckon we're about £100k down in cash terms.

Thanks for the update, it helps me to try and understand it!

[scoopyboy]

Not in profit terms.

Out of our profit, or loss, we have to find the repayments on the loan. So, in crude cash terms, we're now £800k down. However, we also have the shares money being paid in to compensate for that; that doesn't affect profit either. How much that is, I don't know yet, until I see the accounts; however, RP's statement tells me it isn't quite enough to cover the loss and the loan. I'm guessing about £700k.

So, I reckon we're about £100k down in cash terms.

Thanks CWG.

[Keith_M]

Last season was our third in the championship, so no parachute payment or Cup Finals to make up for the reduced TV and League Position income.

We're now on record crowds for the second season in a row, so higher income through the gate, plus we'll get more TV and League Placement money (hopefully finish in the top 4)


I'd image we'll do a lot better financially this season than last.. Also, we have a completed Stadium and our own Training Complex (not rented, unlike some), so a decent level of assets as well.

[seanshow]

That interest free loan arranged with Sir Tom must be down to £3.5 or £3m by now?

[CropleyWasGod]

That interest free loan arranged with Sir Tom must be down to £3.5 or £3m by now?

The accounts will show £4.4m. As of now, November, it will be £4.2m.

[Ringothedog]

The accounts will show £4.4m. As of now, November, it will be £4.2m.

Have we not been paying back longer than that?

[CropleyWasGod]

Have we not been paying back longer than that?

Bollocks. Ignore me. :greengrin

Right..the accounts will show just over £4m. As of now, it's about £3.8m.

[DarlingtonHibee]

Bollocks. Ignore me. :greengrin

Right..the accounts will show just over £4m. As of now, it's about £3.8m.

Cwg, does cash balance mean money in the bank, £3.5m,sorry if it's a stupid question!

[CropleyWasGod]

Cwg, does cash balance mean money in the bank, £3.5m,sorry if it's a stupid question!

It does.

It reflects the increase in ST sales for the current season. As Rod says, about £1m up (at that point) on the previous year.

Although we had the money at that point, though, that doesn't affect the income shown in these accounts. They will be a part of the current season's accounts.

[DarlingtonHibee]

It does.

It reflects the increase in ST sales for the current season. As Rod says, about £1m up (at that point) on the previous year.

Although we had the money at that point, though, that doesn't affect the income shown in these accounts. They will be a part of the current season's accounts.

Sorry 2nd question, is it beneficial to continue to pay STF monthly for p/l benefit?

[CropleyWasGod]

Sorry 2nd question, is it beneficial to continue to pay STF monthly for p/l benefit?

It makes no difference to the P and L how we pay him. From a cash-flow point of view, monthly seems sensible; we spread it out over the year.

[DarlingtonHibee]

It makes no difference to the P and L how we pay him. From a cash-flow point of view, monthly seems sensible; we spread it out over the year.

Thanks

[Geo_1875]

I think being in the Championship and only posting a £300k loss is a decent performance.

Obviously the bounce from winning the cup has helped keep that down.

We're now in a good position to go forward and consolidate in the top half of the league and that's something we've failed to do for a long time.

[Greenworld]

That doesn't affect our profit, though.

But we should celebrate the fact that we are decreasing our debt, whereas HMFC are increasing theirs. :greengrinAre they increasing there debt do we know what there debt is ? You get mixed messages when talking to Jambos

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[CropleyWasGod]

Are they increasing there debt do we know what there debt is ? You get mixed messages when talking to Jambos

Sent from my SM-G903F using TapatalkThey owe 2.4m to AB, and now 1.75m to ANO.

By my simple maths, that makes their debt higher than ours. [emoji48]

[Greenworld]

They owe 2.4m to AB, and now 1.75m to ANO.

Sent from my SM-A510F using TapatalkIn my eyes that's astonishingly good did I read correct that 6 million was allowed for in the books for the stand.

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[CropleyWasGod]

In my eyes that's astonishingly good did I read correct that 6 million was allowed for in the books for the stand.

Sent from my SM-G903F using TapatalkThat's what they'd spent up to the end of June.

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[Greenworld]

That's what they'd spent up to the end of June.

Sent from my SM-A510F using TapatalkCheers we will just need to get some of our rich celebs to through some money in Andy Murray step forward [emoji23][emoji23]

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[greenlex]

They owe 2.4m to AB, and now 1.75m to ANO.

By my simple maths, that makes their debt higher than ours. [emoji48]

At 6% that’s a fair old whack to be paying back!!!!!!😁😁

[lapsedhibee]

At 6% that’s a fair old whack to be paying back!!!!!!����

Yes and the new loan/loan facility is at 2.5% so that's up to 8.5% altogether now!!!!!!

[CropleyWasGod]

At 6% that’s a fair old whack to be paying back!!!!!![emoji16][emoji16]Oh stop it 🤣

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[greenlex]

Oh stop it 🤣

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Damn

[CropleyWasGod]

Yes and the new loan/loan facility is at 2.5% so that's up to 8.5% altogether now!!!!!!You an aw....[emoji16]

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[Mikey]

You an aw....[emoji16]

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You're 0% fun :tee hee:

[CropleyWasGod]

V V V

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[Brooster]

Now is the time for Hibs and HSL people to push on with HSL. There's massive potential here....lets tap in to it. We could easily be contributing £1m a season.

[dangermouse]

Oh stop it 🤣

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I keep hearing about this 6% figure. From your reaction that must be utter crap. What is the true figure AB is charging?

[CropleyWasGod]

I keep hearing about this 6% figure. From your reaction that must be utter crap. What is the true figure AB is charging?

She's not charging them anything until May 2018 at the earliest.

There is mention of an "arrangement fee" of £22k per annum. It's not clear whether she is getting this every year, or if she had £110k at the outset, and it's being written off over 5 years.

[matty_f]

Now is the time for Hibs and HSL people to push on with HSL. There's massive potential here....lets tap in to it. We could easily be contributing £1m a season.

100% agreed. Hearts are funding a competitive advantage through fan donations and fair play to them for it.

There is nothing stopping us at least matching that if we got our act together.

[Ronniekirk]

100% agreed. Hearts are funding a competitive advantage through fan donations and fair play to them for it.

There is nothing stopping us at least matching that if we got our act together.

I don't understand why St Mirren and Motherwell can attract more Fans paying monthly direct debits than we can
Unless i have missed an Announcement we still haven't reached the 2,000 mark
What is the issue preventing this growing
Lack of Awareness ?Lack of Someone having the time to drive this initiative forward ? With over 13,000 Season Ticket Holders you would think we could attract more to Invest even just a fiver a month



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[danhibees1875]

I don't understand why St Mirren and Motherwell can attract more Fans paying monthly direct debits than we can
Unless i have missed an Announcement we still haven't reached the 2,000 mark
What is the issue preventing this growing
Lack of Awareness ?Lack of Someone having the time to drive this initiative forward ? With over 13,000 Season Ticket Holders you would think we could attract more to Invest even just a fiver a month



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Same reason that hearts got so many, they need it more.

[WhileTheChief..]

I’ve not read either accounts but if they’re turnover is £4m more than ours then they should really be able to outspend us by a fair amount.

Hope we’ve got a plan :cb

[Tyler Durden]

I’ve not read either accounts but if they’re turnover is £4m more than ours then they should really be able to outspend us by a fair amount.

Hope we’ve got a plan :cb

They've spent it on glass curtains and vomitoriums. And chips.

[Sioux]

100% agreed. Hearts are funding a competitive advantage through fan donations and fair play to them for it.

There is nothing stopping us at least matching that if we got our act together.

I think there's plenty.

For us its a voluntary donation. To them, in the first instance, it was pay up or go lie down forever. I think it was anticipated that it would need a three year commitment, and they were prepared to do that. Once they'd put into place their direct debits it is probably an easy decision just to carry that on.

Our situation is far removed from that, as we all know, and it would take a real change to persuade 8,000 Hibs fans to contribute for a prolonged period. That just makes the cost of supporting the club much higher than it already is.

IMHO of course.

[Ronniekirk]

I think there's plenty.

For us its a voluntary donation. To them, in the first instance, it was pay up or go lie down forever. I think it was anticipated that it would need a three year commitment, and they were prepared to do that. Once they'd put into place their direct debits it is probably an easy decision just to carry that on.

Our situation is far removed from that, as we all know, and it would take a real change to persuade 8,000 Hibs fans to contribute for a prolonged period. That just makes the cost of supporting the club much higher than it already is.

IMHO of course.

Surely we want to see our team competing every year in the top four and in Europe
We can only achieve that consistently if we can bring in quality players
We have seen the evidence since HSL started of improved quality of player being attracted to the Club
To be its a no Brainer

Am not saying we should be getting the same as Hearts ,but surely its not to big a Target to work towards Three Thousand contributors



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[Firestarter]

No complaints at all.

The cost of going down and getting back up.

The club is progressing massively now and nobody can deny that.

[ballengeich]

She's not charging them anything until May 2018 at the earliest.

There is mention of an "arrangement fee" of £22k per annum. It's not clear whether she is getting this every year, or if she had £110k at the outset, and it's being written off over 5 years.

Exactly what they've charged their charity for administration. Just a co-incidence I suppose.

[Criswell]

What's with this Health Hub thing in the Famous Five stand? Will we get a rental from this or otherwise? Not much emanating from the Club regarding what's happening there.

[simple]

Surely we want to see our team competing every year in the top four and in Europe
We can only achieve that consistently if we can bring in quality players
We have seen the evidence since HSL started of improved quality of player being attracted to the Club
To be its a no Brainer

Am not saying we should be getting the same as Hearts ,but surely its not to big a Target to work towards Three Thousand contributors



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I'm sure I've said this before but out me and my mates we have about 10 season tickets, and I'm the only one who pays into HSL.

I've mentioned it on a few occasions to them in the pub and many have said they would put in £5, £10 or £15 a month, but never get around to doing it.

If this scheme was properly driven I believe we would majorly increase our contributors. However I think hibs don't like to be seen as having the begging bowl out, unlike another club who have the begging bowl out at every opportunity.

[Valencia]

The postie has been and nothing but advertising flyers

[mjhibby]

Wonder what the total cost of our three years in the championship was? Must be massive.


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Iirc the total loss is circa £877,000 for the three years. Not bad at all as hertz lost £1.2m in their one year in the championship and I'm sure we will return a profit this season with the attendances at er this season.

[lord bunberry]

Exactly what they've charged their charity for administration. Just a co-incidence I suppose.
The plot thickens :cb

[NAE NOOKIE]

The postie has been and nothing but advertising flyers

It seems barmy Hibs having to send out hard copies of the accounts .... if they have to post 2000 copies 2nd class that's over 1000 quid, not including printing costs. I presume its a legal requirement?

[Ozyhibby]

Iirc the total loss is circa £877,000 for the three years. Not bad at all as hertz lost £1.2m in their one year in the championship and I'm sure we will return a profit this season with the attendances at er this season.

Doesn’t mean that’s all we missed out on though. Scottish Cup minimised those losses.


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[ancient hibee]

It seems barmy Hibs having to send out hard copies of the accounts .... if they have to post 2000 copies 2nd class that's over 1000 quid, not including printing costs. I presume its a legal requirement?
It’s not a legal requirement.Plenty companies give shareholders the option of hard copy or internet.

[hibby6270]

It seems barmy Hibs having to send out hard copies of the accounts .... if they have to post 2000 copies 2nd class that's over 1000 quid, not including printing costs. I presume its a legal requirement?

It is a legal requirement for all shareholders to be provided with a copy of the accounts but as ancienthibee states, they can be provided electronically as well as paper hard copies. You’ll probably find that large companies with tens of thousands shareholders are the ones more likely to offer a choice.

That said I’m happy to get paper from Hibs. Last year’s was great with the front cover depicting our Scottish Cup win. One for memorabilia collectors out there. Hoping this year’s will refer to winning the Championship.:agree::greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Just sat down with my (paper) copy of the accounts. Here are my highlights:-

1. we are monitoring the potential impact of Brexit. Cheers, Boris. :rolleyes:

2. we had no need to expand on our Going Concern position. (For those who like to point-score , HMFC had to. :greengrin)

3. our Operating Loss was actually £739k. That was reduced by the gain on player sales to the reported figure of £263k

4. we make £5k a year in interest

5. still no wage for Rod.

6. we are paying £10k tax on property income. This puzzles me... what property income do we have? Do we sub-let part of EM? It's not separately disclosed in the accounts, and I think it should be. (it would be around £50k).

7. we also have to pay £6k tax for a prior year. That suggests that we had a wee problem with HMRC. It would also explain why our tax fees doubled. Sharks.

8. debtors (money due in) has quadrupled. I'm guessing that most of this is down to money due from NF for JC. (will ask at the AGM)

9. still paying HFC £24k for the ticket office.

10. we paid £5k to the Community Foundation, but also charged them £9k.

11. the JC money seems to be about £520k. Before the frothing starts, that's possibly the initial payment, and there may be further instalments as well as the usual add-ons, if they apply.

[Mikey]

Cheers CWG.

[CB_NO3]

Seems a big loss considering we have had excellent cup runs over the last few years with added ticket and TV money.

[CropleyWasGod]

Seems a big loss considering we have had excellent cup runs over the last few years with added ticket and TV money.

We only had 1 Cup run in that season.
No games against Rangers.
No parachute payment.

All of those contributed to the loss.

[Ozyhibby]

Just sat down with my (paper) copy of the accounts. Here are my highlights:-

1. we are monitoring the potential impact of Brexit. Cheers, Boris. :rolleyes:

2. we had no need to expand on our Going Concern position. (For those who like to point-score , HMFC had to. :greengrin)

3. our Operating Loss was actually £739k. That was reduced by the gain on player sales to the reported figure of £263k

4. we make £5k a year in interest

5. still no wage for Rod.

6. we are paying £10k tax on property income. This puzzles me... what property income do we have? Do we sub-let part of EM? It's not separately disclosed in the accounts, and I think it should be. (it would be around £50k).

7. we also have to pay £6k tax for a prior year. That suggests that we had a wee problem with HMRC. It would also explain why our tax fees doubled. Sharks.

8. debtors (money due in) has quadrupled. I'm guessing that most of this is down to money due from NF for JC. (will ask at the AGM)

9. still paying HFC £24k for the ticket office.

10. we paid £5k to the Community Foundation, but also charged them £9k.

11. the JC money seems to be about £520k. Before the frothing starts, that's possibly the initial payment, and there may be further instalments as well as the usual add-ons, if they apply.

Total speculation but is it possible the couple of flats we own and give to players have had the way they are assessed for tax changed? Just a guess.


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[ACLeith]

We have 2 Directors who are remunerated (CEO and FD)?

Highest paid Director got £117,000 in the 12 months, this compares to £134,317 in the 11 months to June 2016. This seems to represent approximately 20% cut?

I may be talking pants (is that a technical accountancy term BTW?) but surely that can't be right CWG or CG?

[truehibernian]

We only had 1 Cup run in that season.
No games against Rangers.
No parachute payment.

All of those contributed to the loss.

Whilst also paying Top 4 (SPFL) type wages and salaries CWG. I think Lennon hinted when he was interviewed after winning the title that he could sense at times the stress that Leeann and George Craig were under at certain times in the season - shows how crucial it was to gain automatic promotion and get out the Championship.

Cheers for the insight as ever. Does your debtors query hint that the JC monies may be in instalments ?

[CropleyWasGod]

Total speculation but is it possible the couple of flats we own and give to players have had the way they are assessed for tax changed? Just a guess.


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The only thing I can think of in that connection is that the staff involved have a deduction from their wages as their contribution to the costs. If that's the case, that is "income from property" IMO. It doesn't, though, explain why it hasn't been shown separately.

[CropleyWasGod]

We have 2 Directors who are remunerated (CEO and FD)?

Highest paid Director got £117,000 in the 12 months, this compares to £134,317 in the 11 months to June 2016. This seems to represent approximately 20% cut?

I may be talking pants (is that a technical accountancy term BTW?) but surely that can't be right CWG or CG?

The last sentence in that note talks about a performance-related bonus. Presumably LD got a decent wedge for us winning the SC, or for something else in her contract.

[CropleyWasGod]

Whilst also paying Top 4 (SPFL) type wages and salaries CWG. I think Lennon hinted when he was interviewed after winning the title that he could sense at times the stress that Leeann and George Craig were under at certain times in the season - shows how crucial it was to gain automatic promotion and get out the Championship.

Cheers for the insight as ever. Does your debtors query hint that the JC monies may be in instalments ?

I do think it's connected.

The figure I calculated for JC is ex VAT, and once we add on the VAT, that might explain the increase in debtors. However, the ex-VAT amount seems low, which makes me think it's the first instalment.

I'm never sure whether clubs quote ex-VAT or inc-VAT when it comes to player sales. I guess they choose whichever suits. I once caught Jim Gray out on that when he was trying to placate people over the sale of....either Collins or Kane, I think.

[WhileTheChief..]

Property income from the NHS hub thing maybe?

[brog]

Whilst also paying Top 4 (SPFL) type wages and salaries CWG. I think Lennon hinted when he was interviewed after winning the title that he could sense at times the stress that Leeann and George Craig were under at certain times in the season - shows how crucial it was to gain automatic promotion and get out the Championship.

Cheers for the insight as ever. Does your debtors query hint that the JC monies may be in instalments ?

JC was transferred only a week or so before the end date for the accounts. The transfer fee could be specific instalments on specific dates or possibly Forest paid so much down with the commitment to pay the balance pretty quickly, say by end of August. Certainly when I saw the increase in debtors my 1st thought was same as the guru that is CWG. 😀

[CropleyWasGod]

Property income from the NHS hub thing maybe?

That wasn't in place in that year, and still isn't, I think.

[ACLeith]

The last sentence in that note talks about a performance-related bonus. Presumably LD got a decent wedge for us winning the SC, or for something else in her contract.

Thanks, I missed that. Hate to think LD had a pay cut :rolleyes:

[truehibernian]

JC was transferred only a week or so before the end date for the accounts. The transfer fee could be specific instalments on specific dates or possibly Forest paid so much down with the commitment to pay the balance pretty quickly, say by end of August. Certainly when I saw the increase in debtors my 1st thought was same as the guru that is CWG. 😀

Would Rotherham be due us any money for Stubbs and Doolan brog ? Or would that be in last year's accounts ?

[ancient hibee]

Seems a big loss considering we have had excellent cup runs over the last few years with added ticket and TV money.
Don’t forget that the operating loss figure of £739K is arrived at after around £850K of depreciation and amortisation .

[Jack]

6. Property income.

I think we lease the unused parts of East Mains for agricultural purposes.

[crash]

A lot of guessing and speculation about the accounts. Surely they could be a bit more transparent. For example we reported a Turnover of £7.7M, no breakdown of this figure as far as I can see, what was the gate and matchday income? How much did we make from Retail? What was our commercial income? How much did we make from TV income? How much did we get from Hibs Lotto? What did we make from cup runs/Prize money?
These figures should be published.

[Stuart93]

Still can't believe we sold Cummings so cheaply, really shot ourselves in the foot

[CB_NO3]

If we play Rangers, Celtic and Hearts twice at home that also contributes to over half a million a season. We were lucky if we made that in the total of last season from away fans.

[Smartie]

Still can't believe we sold Cummings so cheaply, really shot ourselves in the foot

When you see the effect that being in the Championship has had on our finances, I think it highlights the fact that it was good business to get Cummings signed back up to get the goals to get us promoted.

If the price of that was a slightly lower transfer fee then we just need to live with that.

I'm not at all unhappy with how Hibs played that one.

[CropleyWasGod]

Still can't believe we sold Cummings so cheaply, really shot ourselves in the footWe don't know how much we sold him for.

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[anewlove]

I think Lennon hinted when he was interviewed after winning the title that he could sense at times the stress that Leeann and George Craig were under at certain times in the season - shows how crucial it was to gain automatic promotion and get out the Championship

I was at an event on Tuesday night - an audience with Leeann Dempster - and she advised that had we not been promoted last season she would have resigned her position. A failure to gain promotion in her three years would have been an "embarrassment".

FWIW she also said that ticket sales make up a third of Hibernian's income.

[Ringothedog]

Still can't believe we sold Cummings so cheaply, really shot ourselves in the foot

How much do you think we sold him for?

[brog]

Would Rotherham be due us any money for Stubbs and Doolan brog ? Or would that be in last year's accounts ?
Good question. I would think however that the fee would have been in last year's accounts. He left a bit earlier than JC & there's not usually performance related add ons or instalments in manager transfers. In fact Rotherham may think we owe them money! ☺

[danhibees1875]

Still can't believe we sold Cummings so cheaply, really shot ourselves in the foot

The way I see it, in summer of 2016, he had 1 year left on his deal and would have left for nothing on 2017 and there would have been disruption in the second half of the season as rumours of pre-contracts started flying about. We got him signed up, I would guess with a formal or gentleman's agreement that we'd let him go in the summer for "cheap" instead of "nothing" and that's what happened.


We got him for free, he scored 69 goals, he helped win us the cup and get promoted, then we sold him for a profit. If that's shooting ourselves in the foot then I can't wait to see what happens when we get it right.

[scoopyboy]

We have 2 Directors who are remunerated (CEO and FD)?

Highest paid Director got £117,000 in the 12 months, this compares to £134,317 in the 11 months to June 2016. This seems to represent approximately 20% cut?

I may be talking pants (is that a technical accountancy term BTW?) but surely that can't be right CWG or CG?

You should maybe clarify the two remunerated directors, I take it FD is Financial Director as opposed to Frank Dougan!!!!!!

Can imagine the uproar if one of the fans reps was getting paid. :greengrin

[dangermouse]

She's not charging them anything until May 2018 at the earliest.

There is mention of an "arrangement fee" of £22k per annum. It's not clear whether she is getting this every year, or if she had £110k at the outset, and it's being written off over 5 years.

How much will she be charging them from May next year or are you not privy to that information?

[JimBHibees]

We have 2 Directors who are remunerated (CEO and FD)?

Highest paid Director got £117,000 in the 12 months, this compares to £134,317 in the 11 months to June 2016. This seems to represent approximately 20% cut?

I may be talking pants (is that a technical accountancy term BTW?) but surely that can't be right CWG or CG?

Maybe the difference was bonus related e.g winning the cup?

[CropleyWasGod]

How much will she be charging them from May next year or are you not privy to that information?It's not mentioned in the accounts. I would expect it to revert to the original rate (be it 6%, or base plus x, I'm not sure). But their finances being what they are, she may waive it for longer.

Or increase it to 20%.....:greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Still can't believe we sold Cummings so cheaply, really shot ourselves in the foot

Part of the price of relegation imo. Had he been doing the business in the premier league we would have got more.


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[Ringothedog]

Part of the price of relegation imo. Had he been doing the business in the premier league we would have got more.


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How much did we get?

[KWJ]

The accounts (that I've not seen) will only show what money we got for him in that financial year. There could perhaps be a further payment in the next financial year and/or a % of future fees, a buy back fee or other such add ons.

[Ringothedog]

The accounts (that I've not seen) will only show what money we got for him in that financial year. There could perhaps be a further payment in the next financial year and/or a % of future fees, a buy back fee or other such add ons.

which is the point I am trying to make, nobody on here knows what he was sold for and the ins and outs of the deal.

[CropleyWasGod]

The accounts (that I've not seen) will only show what money we got for him in that financial year. There could perhaps be a further payment in the next financial year and/or a % of future fees, a buy back fee or other such add ons.

Money that we have invoiced NF for. As discussed above, it looks as if we didn't receive it until after the year-end.

However, your point stands. It's not clear whether the (apparent) £500k is the first instalment of a larger fee. For example, £1.5m over 3 years would be an excellent fee, £1m over 2 not so much (but still good IMO).

[Mikey]

6. Property income.

I think we lease the unused parts of East Mains for agricultural purposes.

Is that STF and RP's housing pension pot?

:tee hee:

[Mikey]

A lot of guessing and speculation about the accounts. Surely they could be a bit more transparent.

I've been saying that to them for years but I don't see it changing while RP is there. It would knock a lot of the lies and misinformation that some like to spread on the head.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I was at an event on Tuesday night - an audience with Leeann Dempster - and she advised that had we not been promoted last season she would have resigned her position. A failure to gain promotion in her three years would have been an "embarrassment".

FWIW she also said that ticket sales make up a third of Hibernian's income.

Whatever we are paying LD she is worth every penny. I could understand why she might look upon failure to go up last season as her responsibility and think about leaving, but IMO its the CEO's job, along with the board and owners, to give the club's manager the tools to do the job, which they have clearly done since LD became CEO ....... I would have been more inclined to be looking for the manager to take responsibility if we couldn't have got a premier league squad out of a championship without Sevco or Hearts, especially one as experienced as the board pushed the boat out to obtain.

Our failure to make a profit in the last financial year is hardly a surprise when you consider the funds we didn't have access to .. no parachute payment, rubbish prize money, pitiful away supports, little or nothing from UEFA, getting less from sponsorship deals because we had less TV exposure in the lower league, etc, etc. ..... take all that into account and we haven't done too badly overall.

[ACLeith]

You should maybe clarify the two remunerated directors, I take it FD is Financial Director as opposed to Frank Dougan!!!!!!

Can imagine the uproar if one of the fans reps was getting paid. :greengrin
I can EXCLUSIVELY reveal that I was referring to the FD not our FD 😀

[mjhibby]

Whatever we are paying LD she is worth every penny. I could understand why she might look upon failure to go up last season as her responsibility and think about leaving, but IMO its the CEO's job, along with the board and owners, to give the club's manager the tools to do the job, which they have clearly done since LD became CEO ....... I would have been more inclined to be looking for the manager to take responsibility if we couldn't have got a premier league squad out of a championship without Sevco or Hearts, especially one as experienced as the board pushed the boat out to obtain.

Our failure to make a profit in the last financial year is hardly a surprise when you consider the funds we didn't have access to .. no parachute payment, rubbish prize money, pitiful away supports, little or nothing from UEFA, getting less from sponsorship deals because we had less TV exposure in the lower league, etc, etc. ..... take all that into account and we haven't done too badly overall.

Exactly. Clubs in the spl are losing more than we lost in the three years in the championship in one season. The difference in money between the two leagues is enormous. We got under half a million for winning the championship while the bottom team in the premiership gets double that. If we finish fifth this season we will receive £1.5m. Plus of course more tv money and sponsorship. This seasons figures should be very interesting.