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Spike Mandela
20-11-2017, 12:46 AM
With Hearts claiming a profit due to the ‘gift’ of an unnamed benefactor just who exatly is so embarrassing that even they won’t name them?

http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2017/11/19/gift-2-5-million-helps-hearts-post-2-3-million-profit-despite-construction-new-main-stand-turnover-rises-11-3-million-tynecastle-ann-budge-callum-paterson/

Bishop Hibee
20-11-2017, 12:54 AM
Plenty rich people in Edinburgh and the Lothians. Still a substantial amount though.

Ozyhibby
20-11-2017, 01:15 AM
With Hearts claiming a profit due to the ‘gift’ of an unnamed benefactor just who exatly is so embarrassing that even they won’t name them?

http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2017/11/19/gift-2-5-million-helps-hearts-post-2-3-million-profit-despite-construction-new-main-stand-turnover-rises-11-3-million-tynecastle-ann-budge-callum-paterson/

More importantly, why is this lack of transparency allowed? Is money laundering involved? Tax evasion? Maybe Romanov?
Are Hibs happy to let it all happen again? Who knows. Can’t get an answer from the fans reps.


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ian cruise
20-11-2017, 01:23 AM
More importantly, why is this lack of transparency allowed? Is money laundering involved? Tax evasion? Maybe Romanov?
Are Hibs happy to let it all happen again? Who knows. Can’t get an answer from the fans reps.


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Between Rangers and now Hearts and their unnamed sources of funding I think it's a fair question to ask. We've been asked to move on from the Rangers affair but if that's to happen we need proof that lessons have been learned and clubs are not still cheating with their finances. Unnamed benefactors doesn't give anyone confidence that us the case.

crewetollhibee
20-11-2017, 01:43 AM
Wonder how much of this ‘gift’ the bumped creditors will see ?

Pete
20-11-2017, 04:46 AM
Are Hibs happy to let it all happen again? Who knows. Can’t get an answer from the fans reps.


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Are you serious? Surely their financial affairs are their own business and if they fall foul then it’s the business of the authorities. I’d rather our club didn’t waste their energy trying to be some financial policeman.

If Lord Roseberry-Smythe or some ropey bank want to give/ loan them some cash then so be it.

lapsedhibee
20-11-2017, 05:44 AM
With Hearts claiming a profit due to the ‘gift’ of an unnamed benefactor just who exatly is so embarrassing that even they won’t name them?

http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2017/11/19/gift-2-5-million-helps-hearts-post-2-3-million-profit-despite-construction-new-main-stand-turnover-rises-11-3-million-tynecastle-ann-budge-callum-paterson/

Couple of things: Don't understand why 'gift' and 'exceptional donation' are in inverted commas in that report. Is there an intention by the reporter to cast doubt on the nature of the funds? And have Hearts given up the idea entirely that the simple fans' monthly donations to FoH are going towards the eventual purchase of the club, and they're just treating them purely as a means to pay bills now?

NAE NOOKIE
20-11-2017, 06:26 AM
The big unanswered question is where were these 'mystery benefactors' when Hearts needed them most?

The no doubt substantial sum of money paid to enable Hearts to pretend that they are ultra ethical by having 'Save the Children' emblazoned across their shirts came from a 'mystery benefactor' who covered the Yams losses incurred through not having a corporate shirt sponsor, hardly giving the space away was it? .....But anyway, this was after Budge took over and now this ( in Scottish football terms ) huge sum from another .... or the same? .... mystery benefactor.

Where were these guys when the total amount which must be nearly 3 million quid was desperately needed to keep the club afloat immediately after they were put into receivership? All the money came from Queen Ann and the FOH .... so were these mystery rabid Yams just sitting there on that 3 million quid and watching Budge and FOH get on with it? .... If you love a football club enough to 'gift' it 3 million quid, how the hell could you sit back watching it teetering on the brink and not come forward with the money then?

Something stinks to high heaven about this if you ask me :hmmm:

green day
20-11-2017, 07:22 AM
This is the same cash as was discussed re: funding for their new stand.

Any Jambos I know are under the impression it's Budges money - ie she knew they had a massive shortfall, but if she made it another loan (like the one to take the club out of administration) the "fan ownership" would be bounced out another 2-3 years and fans would accuse her of profiteering.

I think what it really shows is that living within their means is a struggle.

Which is great for us!

Winston Ingram
20-11-2017, 07:23 AM
£2.5m is a decent wack. Bet whoever it is is ragin that it’s all been *****ed on ***** project management :greengrin

Peevemor
20-11-2017, 07:26 AM
£2.5m is a decent wack. Bet whoever it is is ragin that it’s all been *****ed on ***** project management :greengrin

... and overtime.

Greentinted
20-11-2017, 07:37 AM
I’m minded of that hideously sycophantic away kit they paraded last season...although I wouldn’t know why such a ‘donor’ would demand anonymity if all is above board!

madhibee_again
20-11-2017, 07:44 AM
So in reality it’s a £200k loss as the £2.5m was for the new stand?

CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 07:49 AM
The big unanswered question is where were these 'mystery benefactors' when Hearts needed them most?

The no doubt substantial sum of money paid to enable Hearts to pretend that they are ultra ethical by having 'Save the Children' emblazoned across their shirts came from a 'mystery benefactor' who covered the Yams losses incurred through not having a corporate shirt sponsor, hardly giving the space away was it? .....But anyway, this was after Budge took over and now this ( in Scottish football terms ) huge sum from another .... or the same? .... mystery benefactor.

Where were these guys when the total amount which must be nearly 3 million quid was desperately needed to keep the club afloat immediately after they were put into receivership? All the money came from Queen Ann and the FOH .... so were these mystery rabid Yams just sitting there on that 3 million quid and watching Budge and FOH get on with it? .... If you love a football club enough to 'gift' it 3 million quid, how the hell could you sit back watching it teetering on the brink and not come forward with the money then?

Something stinks to high heaven about this if you ask me :hmmm:It doesn't really. To keep the club afloat when they went into administration would have cost 30m, not 3m.

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Treadstone
20-11-2017, 07:54 AM
"Brief run in the Europa league."

Pumped at first time of asking by fourth best team in Malta.

Fife-Hibee
20-11-2017, 08:29 AM
"Brief run in the Europa league."

Pumped at first time of asking by fourth best team in Malta.

Yeah' that must have made them a right few quid !😂

Bostonhibby
20-11-2017, 08:40 AM
More importantly, why is this lack of transparency allowed? Is money laundering involved? Tax evasion? Maybe Romanov?
Are Hibs happy to let it all happen again? Who knows. Can’t get an answer from the fans reps.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWe need to move on so I guess we have to just agree that absolutely no unfair advantage can be gained from these sort of arrangements, that there's no question of any criminality or people who can damage the reputation of the Scottish game any further being involved either.

Someone sonewheres decided it's okay to hide where the cash comes from in the interests of sporting integrity I guess.

In the yams case people like Romanov know they don't really care where the money comes from or how the club use it so there's every chance it'll be a similar figure.

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The goalie
20-11-2017, 08:41 AM
The big unanswered question is where were these 'mystery benefactors' when Hearts needed them most?

The no doubt substantial sum of money paid to enable Hearts to pretend that they are ultra ethical by having 'Save the Children' emblazoned across their shirts came from a 'mystery benefactor' who covered the Yams losses incurred through not having a corporate shirt sponsor, hardly giving the space away was it? .....But anyway, this was after Budge took over and now this ( in Scottish football terms ) huge sum from another .... or the same? .... mystery benefactor.

Where were these guys when the total amount which must be nearly 3 million quid was desperately needed to keep the club afloat immediately after they were put into receivership? All the money came from Queen Ann and the FOH .... so were these mystery rabid Yams just sitting there on that 3 million quid and watching Budge and FOH get on with it? .... If you love a football club enough to 'gift' it 3 million quid, how the hell could you sit back watching it teetering on the brink and not come forward with the money then?

Something stinks to high heaven about this if you ask me :hmmm:

Its a VAT dodge.
If whoever it was wanted to give Save the Children money and they then use it to buy space on Hearts top they would pay vat. If he gifts Hearts the money who in turn give save the Children the space they pay no vat. The benefactor is happy his/her money went "in kind" to save the children, save the children are happy as they have a free advert and free PR, Hearts are happy as they have "sold" the front of the jersey and paid no vat on the transaction. I bet somewhere along the line there would be a gift aid application as well.

Iain G
20-11-2017, 08:45 AM
With Hearts claiming a profit due to the ‘gift’ of an unnamed benefactor just who exatly is so embarrassing that even they won’t name them?

http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2017/11/19/gift-2-5-million-helps-hearts-post-2-3-million-profit-despite-construction-new-main-stand-turnover-rises-11-3-million-tynecastle-ann-budge-callum-paterson/

I think you will find that "Onymous" is Queen Ann's middle name... :agree: :greengrin

MWHIBBIES
20-11-2017, 08:47 AM
More importantly, why is this lack of transparency allowed? Is money laundering involved? Tax evasion? Maybe Romanov?
Are Hibs happy to let it all happen again? Who knows. Can’t get an answer from the fans reps.


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Its nothing to do with Hibs, we arent the governing body.

Hiber-nation
20-11-2017, 08:52 AM
More importantly, why is this lack of transparency allowed? Is money laundering involved? Tax evasion? Maybe Romanov?
Are Hibs happy to let it all happen again? Who knows. Can’t get an answer from the fans reps.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You are seriously contacting the fans reps about this? Or am I missing the joke here?

Bostonhibby
20-11-2017, 09:01 AM
You are seriously contacting the fans reps about this? Or am I missing the joke here?Knowing the governance of a company board I'd accept there's a lot of detail and confidential aspects a member can't discuss.

But as fans reps are on the board of Hibs, and Hibs are members of the SPFL and are in positions where such things can be discussed I don't think it's unreasonable to expect our club to have a position on funding sources and if fans want to know the club's view on this issue or any other one the fans representatives seems a decent place to start?

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CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 09:02 AM
I'm really not getting the hand-wringing about this "mystery" benefactor.

There is no law or regulation that requires donors to a company, football club or otherwise, to be disclosed. If there were, every football supporter in the country who pops in a fiver to their club's development fund would have to be named. That would include this forum, and everyone who pays into it.

greenlad
20-11-2017, 09:08 AM
I'm really not getting the hand-wringing about this "mystery" benefactor.

There is no law or regulation that requires donors to a company, football club or otherwise, to be disclosed. If there were, every football supporter in the country who pops in a fiver to their club's development fund would have to be named. That would include this forum, and everyone who pays into it.

This. Hearts bank will have had to satisfy Anti Money Laundering regulations as to the source of funds (they would face severe FCA penalties should this be ignored by them) but there is no legal requirement to disclose publicly.

Firestarter
20-11-2017, 09:10 AM
Does it matter? Probably the Cludge.

CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 09:11 AM
This. Hearts bank will have had to satisfy Anti Money Laundering regulations as to the source of funds (they would face severe FCA penalties should this be ignored by them) but there is no legal requirement to disclose publicly.

The auditors and solicitors would also have had the opportunity to raise any concerns.

From memory, this has already been spoken about on this board. It seems to be the common opinion that the benefactor was the Rosebery family. In other words, hardly a mystery, and hardly a surprise, given their historical links with the club.

What is more relevant for me is that, according to that report (and we really should wait for the accounts) is that they seem to have got themselves bank finance of £1.5m. So, they no longer owe it all to themselves.

One Day Soon
20-11-2017, 09:11 AM
This is an interesting curiosity but nothing that we should be getting worked up about or obsessing over.

They've handed us lots of fun that we really had no right to expect over their new stand - the shambolic project management, the grandiose statements and the high cost and poor quality. It's turned out that their stadium is smaller than ours, it isn't UEFA compliant, they've got a serious squad quality problem, their fan ownership model is at best stalled and in terms of the football on the park they are a good way behind us. I'm inclined to leave the team with Edinburgh's wee stadium to their own weird devices.

Let's focus now on what really matters, doing our talking on the park.

lucky
20-11-2017, 09:17 AM
Obviously it’s was Budge that donated probably feeling a little guilty about her 6% return on her initial investment but who really cares? Without the donation and the £125k from the fans they would have made a serious loss

Ozymandias
20-11-2017, 09:18 AM
Knowing the governance of a company board I'd accept there's a lot of detail and confidential aspects a member can't discuss.

But as fans reps are on the board of Hibs, and Hibs are members of the SPFL and are in positions where such things can be discussed I don't think it's unreasonable to expect our club to have a position on funding sources and if fans want to know the club's view on this issue or any other one the fans representatives seems a decent place to start?

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It's got hee-haw to do with Hibs. If you're worried about it, contact the SPFL or the SFA or the auditors of Hearts Accounts.

CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 09:24 AM
Obviously it’s was Budge that donated probably feeling a little guilty about her 6% return on her initial investment but who really cares? Without the donation and the £125k from the fans they would have made a serious loss

...sits on hands....

lapsedhibee
20-11-2017, 09:25 AM
This is an interesting curiosity but nothing that we should be getting worked up about or obsessing over.

They've handed us lots of fun that we really had no right to expect over their new stand - the shambolic project management, the grandiose statements and the high cost and poor quality. It's turned out that their stadium is smaller than ours, it isn't UEFA compliant, they've got a serious squad quality problem, their fan ownership model is at best stalled and in terms of the football on the park they are a good way behind us. I'm inclined to leave the team with Edinburgh's wee stadium to their own weird devices.

Let's focus now on what really matters, doing our talking on the park.

How does this work, this "focusing"? Fans get together, form a focus group, sit cross legged on the floor once a week and clear their minds of all negative thoughts about the yams and the thes, and this makes the team somehow perform better on Saturday afternoons?

Can't see how fans speculating about other teams' finances, infrastructure, players, manager, pies blablabla makes any difference whatsoever to our talking on the park.

Spike Mandela
20-11-2017, 09:25 AM
I'm really not getting the hand-wringing about this "mystery" benefactor.

There is no law or regulation that requires donors to a company, football club or otherwise, to be disclosed. If there were, every football supporter in the country who pops in a fiver to their club's development fund would have to be named. That would include this forum, and everyone who pays into it.

Oh come off it, we aren’t talking about a £5 donation here we are talking about a substantial bung.

After all we have been through in Scottish football over the past 5 years and with authorities claiming to be happy with measures they have in place to clean up football, nobody bats an eyelid at a £2.5m ‘gift’?

What if (for example only)it were from the owner of the construction company that got the order for the stadium or from a senior official involved in planning consent or an expert in administration law or from a mysterious donor in Lithuania, a Russian money launderer or Campbell Ogilvie or David Murray or a government minister or the Jimmy Savile trust or the earl Haig poppy fund or most embarrassingly Donald Trump?

Extreme examples but surely this kind of thing laughs in the face of transparency in football governance.

Iain G
20-11-2017, 09:26 AM
...sits on hands....

I have a feeling I just missed something important 😁

Bostonhibby
20-11-2017, 09:26 AM
I'm really not getting the hand-wringing about this "mystery" benefactor.

There is no law or regulation that requires donors to a company, football club or otherwise, to be disclosed. If there were, every football supporter in the country who pops in a fiver to their club's development fund would have to be named. That would include this forum, and everyone who pays into it.Appreciate the legal position but you know there's nothing to stop bodies writing their own rules to protect the image and reputation of their business when there's been bad experiences in the past. Hearts and Rangers for example.

Perfectly possible to say that donations of a significant size should be notified to SPFL to at least let them make a conscious decision about whether the donation carries any reputational or other risks?

Just a thought.



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CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 09:35 AM
Appreciate the legal position but you know there's nothing to stop bodies writing their own rules to protect the image and reputation of their business when there's been bad experiences in the past. Hearts and Rangers for example.

Perfectly possible to say that donations of a significant size should be notified to SPFL to at least let them make a conscious decision about whether the donation carries any reputational or other risks?

Just a thought.



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Not sure there have been any "bad experiences" involving donors. Owners and lenders, yes, but they're disclosed.

Bostonhibby
20-11-2017, 09:36 AM
It's got hee-haw to do with Hibs. If you're worried about it, contact the SPFL or the SFA or the auditors of Hearts Accounts.

I never do worry about it, I was pointing out how there is in fact a direct link between the governing body of which Hibs is a member, the Hibs board, and any Hibs fan who is looking to raise a point that way.

Hibs are a member of the SPFL.

Down the years, if I have an issue with the club I wait until the shareholders AGM and stick a question in then so I personally don't ever see the fans rep as being the way to go if I need to at least raise a question on something like this. Outcome tends to be the same though:wink:

Bostonhibby
20-11-2017, 09:42 AM
Not sure there have been any "bad experiences" involving donors. Owners and lenders, yes, but they're disclosed.

Lets just call it the covert givers of money then, and the stench it sometimes leaves behind:wink:

I'd prefer us to be involved in efforts to make disclosure of funds fairer and transparent. Maybe a minority view.

One Day Soon
20-11-2017, 09:45 AM
How does this work, this "focusing"? Fans get together, form a focus group, sit cross legged on the floor once a week and clear their minds of all negative thoughts about the yams and the thes, and this makes the team somehow perform better on Saturday afternoons?

Can't see how fans speculating about other teams' finances, infrastructure, players, manager, pies blablabla makes any difference whatsoever to our talking on the park.


There seems to me to be a difference on the one hand between ripping the pi5h out of them when it's merited or looking closely at their dodgy dealings when there are any and on the other becoming obsessional about stuff that just makes us look like the green and white faction of the tin-foil hat brigade.

Put it another way, there's plenty to legitimately laugh at, question and generally ridicule without getting paranoid about an anonymous benefactor openly lodged in their accounts.

CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 09:47 AM
I have a feeling I just missed something important 😁

Ha :greengrin... he mentioned the 6%, and I'm trying not to rise to the bait every time it's mentioned.

Failing miserably......:greengrin

Hiber-nation
20-11-2017, 09:48 AM
Knowing the governance of a company board I'd accept there's a lot of detail and confidential aspects a member can't discuss.

But as fans reps are on the board of Hibs, and Hibs are members of the SPFL and are in positions where such things can be discussed I don't think it's unreasonable to expect our club to have a position on funding sources and if fans want to know the club's view on this issue or any other one the fans representatives seems a decent place to start?

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Fair enough but I think it is unreasonable. It has nothing to do with Hibs.

CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 09:50 AM
Oh come off it, we aren’t talking about a £5 donation here we are talking about a substantial bung.

After all we have been through in Scottish football over the past 5 years and with authorities claiming to be happy with measures they have in place to clean up football, nobody bats an eyelid at a £2.5m ‘gift’?

What if (for example only)it were from the owner of the construction company that got the order for the stadium or from a senior official involved in planning consent or an expert in administration law or from a mysterious donor in Lithuania, a Russian money launderer or Campbell Ogilvie or David Murray or a government minister or the Jimmy Savile trust or the earl Haig poppy fund or most embarrassingly Donald Trump?

Extreme examples but surely this kind of thing laughs in the face of transparency in football governance.

We know, with a fair amount of certainty, who it was from.

As for "nobody bats an eyelid", as has been said, the bank, the solicitors and the auditors will all have asked the appropriate questions.

lapsedhibee
20-11-2017, 10:02 AM
Ha :greengrin... he mentioned the 6%, and I'm trying not to rise to the bait every time it's mentioned.

Failing miserably......:greengrin

IF this is true though, the loan is carrying an ongoing cost:

One little surprise (although I suspected it was the case) is that Bidco has been charging an ongoing "Arrangement Fee" which amounts to £22k over the year in respect of the £2.4m loan. I haven't seen any reference to any arrangement fee other than the initial £110,000 which was mentioned in the original loan agreement. I suspected that this had been going on because I couldn't reconcile the amount of interest (and arrangement fee) charged (£172K) in previous years, by doing an interest calculation on its own

Bostonhibby
20-11-2017, 10:09 AM
Fair enough but I think it is unreasonable. It has nothing to do with Hibs.No problem [emoji106]

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lapsedhibee
20-11-2017, 10:14 AM
There seems to me to be a difference on the one hand between ripping the pi5h out of them when it's merited or looking closely at their dodgy dealings when there are any and on the other becoming obsessional about stuff that just makes us look like the green and white faction of the tin-foil hat brigade.

Put it another way, there's plenty to legitimately laugh at, question and generally ridicule without getting paranoid about an anonymous benefactor openly lodged in their accounts.

Don't think anyone's getting paranoid, are they? Would agree that anonymous benefaction is not generally something to get excited about, but it's bound to prick up a few ears when that club's recent history includes so much dodgy dealing, and when its current owner is clearly not very bothered about telling the truth.

CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 10:15 AM
IF this is true though, the loan is carrying an ongoing cost:

One little surprise (although I suspected it was the case) is that Bidco has been charging an ongoing "Arrangement Fee" which amounts to £22k over the year in respect of the £2.4m loan. I haven't seen any reference to any arrangement fee other than the initial £110,000 which was mentioned in the original loan agreement. I suspected that this had been going on because I couldn't reconcile the amount of interest (and arrangement fee) charged (£172K) in previous years, by doing an interest calculation on its own

Good spot. Is that from JKB?

I went back to the HMFC accounts for 2016. There was an arrangement fee of £110k on the £2.4m loan. It looks like this was being paid off over 5 years, at £22k pa., although the wording is a bit ambiguous. It further looks as if it was paid off in full in the 2016 accounts. The 2017 accounts will clarify that.

lapsedhibee
20-11-2017, 10:18 AM
Good spot. Is that from JKB?


Yes. Mr Footballfirst over there is the person who dissects.

CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 10:20 AM
Yes. Mr Footballfirst over there is the person who dissects.

Does he have the actual accounts, rather than the EEN report?

lapsedhibee
20-11-2017, 10:22 AM
Does he have the actual accounts, rather than the EEN report?

http://cdn.heartsfc.co.uk/assets/downloads/Heart%20of%20Midlothian%20Plc%2030%2006%202017%20S IGNED%20ACCOUNTS.pdf

Ozyhibby
20-11-2017, 10:34 AM
We know, with a fair amount of certainty, who it was from.

As for "nobody bats an eyelid", as has been said, the bank, the solicitors and the auditors will all have asked the appropriate questions.

The appropriate questions from solicitors, banks and auditors these days is ‘how can we make this look legal?’. I admire your faith in the uk’s financial authorities.
This is about football governance though and there is nothing to stop football applying higher standards if they so wished.
People saying it has nothing to do with Hibs? It’s up to the SPFL/SFA? We are those organisations along with the other clubs. It has everything to do with Hibs. If we want change then it has to be through Hibs.
You can see from those accounts the importance of European football. This year it’s possible that we will miss out on a chance to make money from a European run because Sevco are currently spending millions raised from offshore. This has everything to do with Hibs and has a direct impact on the quality of player we can afford to bring to the club.
Concentrating on Hibs while those around us overspend to beat us has not served us well so far.


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CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 10:46 AM
http://cdn.heartsfc.co.uk/assets/downloads/Heart%20of%20Midlothian%20Plc%2030%2006%202017%20S IGNED%20ACCOUNTS.pdf

Thanks for that.

A brief skim through....

1. Dr B's proof-reader is at it again. Her Report is appallingly written. Apparently, they have had an "e-typical year".

2. they have, unlike us, separated out "loan fee income". Presumably, this is money they receive from clubs for their players out on loan. £260k for the year.

3. without the donation, they would have made a loss of £179k.

4. they obtained a loan of £1.75m in October 2017. I can't see from whom, and on what terms.

5. the interest holiday to Dr B is still in place, until May 2018.

5. the arrangement fee of £22k pa is still ongoing.

CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 10:47 AM
The appropriate questions from solicitors, banks and auditors these days is ‘how can we make this look legal?’. I admire your faith in the uk’s financial authorities.
This is about football governance though and there is nothing to stop football applying higher standards if they so wished.
People saying it has nothing to do with Hibs? It’s up to the SPFL/SFA? We are those organisations along with the other clubs. It has everything to do with Hibs. If we want change then it has to be through Hibs.
You can see from those accounts the importance of European football. This year it’s possible that we will miss out on a chance to make money from a European run because Sevco are currently spending millions raised from offshore. This has everything to do with Hibs and has a direct impact on the quality of player we can afford to bring to the club.
Concentrating on Hibs while those around us overspend to beat us has not served us well so far.


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It really isn't.

lapsedhibee
20-11-2017, 10:50 AM
4. they obtained a bank loan of £1.75m in October 2017. I can't see from whom, and on what terms.

5. the interest holiday to Dr B is still in place, until May 2018.

5. the arrangement fee of £22k pa is still ongoing.

Aye and can your proof reader not count to 6? :wink:

JKBers saying loan is at 2.5% and some speculation that loaner might be Julie Andrews herself.

CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 10:57 AM
Aye and can your proof reader not count to 6? :wink:

JKBers saying loan is at 2.5% and some speculation that loaner might be Julie Andrews herself.

I'm daein this voluntarily, no for £22k pa :greengrin

Think it said bank finance, but I'll check later. The Hibs accounts are out.............

Edit, no they're no.....

The HMFC accounts just say "Additional loan facilities", although I think (Cav will confirm this ) that if it is a Dr B loan, it would have to be disclosed as such.

MrSmith
20-11-2017, 11:00 AM
I'm gobsmacked they got a bank loan :confused::cb

Bostonhibby
20-11-2017, 11:02 AM
I'm gobsmacked they got a bank loan :confused::cbMaybe they own another bank again so they can owe it to themselves?

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Caversham Green
20-11-2017, 11:13 AM
It really isn't.

:agree: I'm out of the game now, but after the demise of Arthur Andersen it was quite the reverse - I can't see that having changed much over the last few years.

Hibs4185
20-11-2017, 11:26 AM
Their stadium finance has always intrigued me. The business made a loss without a £2.5 million donation from a mysterious benefactor.

Budge said the £13million for the stand was made up of:

£5.5 million from normal football activities (you've made a loss so how's that?)
£6.5 million from benefactors (where were these benefactors to buy the club out of admin?)
£1.5 from FOH (fair enough)

These figures were from memory so maybe not 100% accurate but I'm confident not too far away. So mysterious benefactors have contributed £8-9 million. I know clubs have a lot of rich fans but I just can't see it. I think Budge must've contributed a lot more than she has let on-hence mysterious.

FOH think they are due her £3 million odd which if they keep up current donations will be 2 years. Maybe if the yam hordes think the figure is actually £8 million they might get disillusioned with the thought of paying her back for many years to come.

Soemthing doesn't add up

Lago
20-11-2017, 11:45 AM
Obviously it’s was Budge that donated probably feeling a little guilty about her 6% return on her initial investment but who really cares? Without the donation and the £125k from the fans they would have made a serious loss

Claiming a 2.3millionn profit in today's paper.

CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 11:47 AM
Something else which has just caught my eye...

They have Net Current Liabilities of £135k, which is a £2m negative swing from the previous year.

Most of this is due to an increase in Trade Creditors of £1.3m, to £2.2m. Not sure if this is an indication of cash-flow problems, or perhaps reflects the increased activity on the stand. However, it probably explains why they needed the loan in October.

Oh, and £5.7m from FOH thus far..... and no shares. :cb

CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 11:48 AM
Claiming a 2.3millionn profit in today's paper.

..which is true, AFTER the £2.5m donation.

Bostonhibby
20-11-2017, 11:51 AM
..which is true, AFTER the £2.5m donation.The good doctor making sure her legacy is a healthy one on paper by providing a loan so the simple fans think they've made an actual profit?

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CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 12:34 PM
The good doctor making sure her legacy is a healthy one on paper by providing a loan so the simple fans think they've made an actual profit?

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Is the donation from her? I thought it was the Rosebery family.

Bostonhibby
20-11-2017, 12:35 PM
Is the donation from her? I thought it was the Rosebery family.Dunno, I genuinely wondered.

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snooky
20-11-2017, 12:36 PM
Is it a donation or a loan?
I thought a donation was a gift therefore you don't have to pay it back. :dunno:

CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 12:38 PM
Is it a donation or a loan?
I thought a donation was a gift therefore you don't have to pay it back. :dunno:

There are 2 things here.

1. the donation from a benefactor, which earlier discussion suggests was from the Rosebery family.

2. in October, they took out a loan of £1.75m. Source and terms as yet unknown.

Geo_1875
20-11-2017, 12:54 PM
There seems to me to be a difference on the one hand between ripping the pi5h out of them when it's merited or looking closely at their dodgy dealings when there are any and on the other becoming obsessional about stuff that just makes us look like the green and white faction of the tin-foil hat brigade.

Put it another way, there's plenty to legitimately laugh at, question and generally ridicule without getting paranoid about an anonymous benefactor openly lodged in their accounts.

Without being accused of paranoia can I ask why someone would make such a large donation anonymously?

Maybe an individual would be scared their wife finds out?

Maybe a company would be scared of the negative publicity of being associated with them?

Maybe a public body who shouldn't be giving them money?

Or maybe something more sinister. We deserve to know. :wink:

CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 12:59 PM
Without being accused of paranoia can I ask why someone would make such a large donation anonymously?

Maybe an individual would be scared their wife finds out?

Maybe a company would be scared of the negative publicity of being associated with them?

Maybe a public body who shouldn't be giving them money?

Or maybe something more sinister. We deserve to know. :wink:

If it's either of the last 2, the whistle would be blown already.

Lots of people make donations anonymously for a variety of reasons. Some people just don't like the limelight. And, yeah, there may be "political" (in the widest sense of the word) for doing so.

Some might fear a brick being put through their window. :cb

Skol
20-11-2017, 01:03 PM
Are the roseberry family not a bit shirt of cash. Sure I read they own dalmeny estate and needed money to fund renovations and maintenance.

Geo_1875
20-11-2017, 01:09 PM
Are the roseberry family not a bit shirt of cash. Sure I read they own dalmeny estate and needed money to fund renovations and maintenance.

They're short of other peoples cash while they wait on grants. Still got plenty money to chuck around on horses and other hobbies.

CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 01:11 PM
Are the roseberry family not a bit shirt of cash. Sure I read they own dalmeny estate and needed money to fund renovations and maintenance.

They sold a Turner for £30m. a few years ago.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/news/father-of-sotheby-s-chairman-lord-dalmeny-selling-prized-turner-masterpiece-9901511.html

It also crossed my mind that HMFC's use of the Rosebery colours for their away strip might have been a part of a deal. This is from 2016:-

The club is delighted that the longstanding support of the Rosebery dynasty has been assured as the club continues its remarkable journey. Son of the current the Earl of Rosebery, Lord Dalmeny is a keen Hearts fan and his son, Caspian Primrose proved to be a fine mascot for the team when he took to the field for the victorious end of season encounter against Aberdeen.

SuperAllyMcleod
20-11-2017, 01:24 PM
It doesn’t matter who the benefactor is, the important thing is that (unless they make the same donation every year) without it they made a loss and without the FOH money, they made a huge loss.

None of this income is guaranteed, particularly if they continue to play as badly as they are. With a stand to finish, and to finish paying for, they will still be up against it for a wee while to come.

Iain G
20-11-2017, 01:28 PM
It doesn’t matter who the benefactor is, the important thing is that (unless they make the same donation every year) without it they made a loss and without the FOH money, they made a huge loss.

None of this income is guaranteed, particularly if they continue to play as badly as they are. With a stand to finish, and to finish paying for, they will still be up against it for a wee while to come.

What do you mean finish? It's open, it must be finished?! :confused::wink:

MrSmith
20-11-2017, 01:29 PM
They sold a Turner for £30m. a few years ago.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/news/father-of-sotheby-s-chairman-lord-dalmeny-selling-prized-turner-masterpiece-9901511.html

It also crossed my mind that HMFC's use of the Rosebery colours for their away strip might have been a part of a deal. This is from 2016:-

The club is delighted that the longstanding support of the Rosebery dynasty has been assured as the club continues its remarkable journey. Son of the current the Earl of Rosebery, Lord Dalmeny is a keen Hearts fan and his son, Caspian Primrose proved to be a fine mascot for the team when he took to the field for the victorious end of season encounter against Aberdeen.

Growing too much weed probably :\

NAE NOOKIE
20-11-2017, 01:40 PM
Making a profit after a gift of 2.5 million or whatever it was is hardly making profit in real terms is it? If I make a living selling pencils and I'm down on the deal at the end of the year I can hardly say my pencil selling business is doing well if I'm adding money I got for Christmas from my uncle Fred onto the books.

Yamenomics at their finest ... even if it is legit to add gifts onto the books :greengrin

allezsauzee
20-11-2017, 02:24 PM
I was told a while back that directors of Baillie Gifford were helping to bankroll the new stand. Wouldn't be investing my hard earned with them if they are so wasteful with their own cash!

MrSmith
20-11-2017, 02:55 PM
The mysterious benefactor could in fact be Edinburgh Council? It seems to be pointing that way ... last minute safety cert, GG can fill in the rest re building control and changes not been updated plus, the very reason for being unnamed??? Says it all to me! Probably haven't paid their council tax again.

jacomo
20-11-2017, 02:57 PM
The mysterious benefactor could in fact be Edinburgh Council? It seems to be pointing that way ... last minute safety cert, GG can fill in the rest re building control and changes not been updated plus, the very reason for being unnamed??? Says it all to me! Probably haven't paid their council tax again.


Can't see how ECC could keep that quiet.

Also interesting that they have arranged a £1.75m loan - that must be a VERY trusting bank, given their record of reneging on debt.

CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 03:03 PM
Can't see how ECC could keep that quiet.

Also interesting that they have arranged a £1.75m loan - that must be a VERY trusting bank, given their record of reneging on debt.

The jury is out on whether it is a bank.

Ozyhibby
20-11-2017, 03:09 PM
The jury is out on whether it is a bank.

And likely Budge is guarantor for it.


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lapsedhibee
20-11-2017, 04:04 PM
Is it a donation or a loan?
I thought a donation was a gift therefore you don't have to pay it back. :dunno:
Donation has a special meaning in the land of yams. They donated the war memorial to the City in 1922, but they still own it. According to Julie Andrews anyway.

RyeSloan
20-11-2017, 04:10 PM
I was told a while back that directors of Baillie Gifford were helping to bankroll the new stand. Wouldn't be investing my hard earned with them if they are so wasteful with their own cash!

I very much doubt BG would do anything of the sort from a corporate perspective.

There will be nothing stopping individual partners using their own finances to gift money to them but as they all come from investment backgrounds there can't be many of them that will be prepared simply to throw their money away!

I'm getting a bit lost on all these benefactors Hearts seem to have magically unearthed...are we saying that they were gifted £2.5m this season just to cover running costs, £3.5m to help cover the stand cost AND have a new loan of £1.7m?

CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 04:15 PM
I very much doubt BG would do anything of the sort from a corporate perspective.

There will be nothing stopping individual partners using their own finances to gift money to them but as they all come from investment backgrounds there can't be many of them that will be prepared simply to throw their money away!

I'm getting a bit lost on all these benefactors Hearts seem to have magically unearthed...are we saying that they were gifted £2.5m this season just to cover running costs, £3.5m to help cover the stand cost AND have a new loan of £1.7m?

£1.5m from FOH for the stadium. £2.5m donation from "TBE". Both within that year.

£1.75m loan in October.

Viva_Palmeiras
20-11-2017, 04:16 PM
Is the donation from her? I thought it was the Rosebery family.

Are donations classed as taxable income?

Wembley67
20-11-2017, 04:18 PM
I was told a while back that directors of Baillie Gifford were helping to bankroll the new stand. Wouldn't be investing my hard earned with them if they are so wasteful with their own cash!

If they were, that's personal cash and not the companies.

RyeSloan
20-11-2017, 04:21 PM
£1.5m from FOH for the stadium. £2.5m donation from "TBE". Both within that year.

£1.75m loan in October.

Ahh OK thanks so the £2.5m is not new then, Budge has raised that a number of times as being part of the stand funding has she not?

But the question is then I suppose how much of the stand cost has been reflected in these accounts? As it would seem, on the face of it, that this cash appears to have been used for running costs rather than capital expenditure (although I've only skimmed this thread and not read any of the accounts [emoji12])

CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 04:23 PM
Are donations classed as taxable income?

How long do you have? :greengrin

In this case, I don't think it will be. Although it's been included in the P&L account as income, I am guessing that it's a capital contribution to the new stand. As such, it might become taxable if and when they sell the stadium; in other words, very unlikely.

The Yams think so, too. The relevant note in the accounts more or less says that.

CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 04:30 PM
Ahh OK thanks so the £2.5m is not new then, Budge has raised that a number of times as being part of the stand funding has she not?

But the question is then I suppose how much of the stand cost has been reflected in these accounts? As it would seem, on the face of it, that this cash appears to have been used for running costs rather than capital expenditure (although I've only skimmed this thread and not read any of the accounts [emoji12])

Yeah, she has, which is where the assumption that it's Rosebery money comes from.

They have included £5.5m costs of the new stand; presumably, that's what they had spent up to the end of June.

Thinking more on this, there is an argument to say that the £2.5m should have been deducted from the £5.5m in the accounts, as it seems to be a contribution to the new stand. I don't think it has been used for running costs, as you suggest, just that it might be (in accounting terms) in the "wrong place".

Whichever way you slice it, they traded at a loss... a loss that was not much less than ours.

EastThomasSTboy
20-11-2017, 04:59 PM
I was told a while back that directors of Baillie Gifford were helping to bankroll the new stand. Wouldn't be investing my hard earned with them if they are so wasteful with their own cash!


I heard it was 3 Directors, all Rugby wallahs, from Hearts supporting families who work at Baillie Gifford and have donated over £6 million between them, for the new Stand.

G B Young
20-11-2017, 05:34 PM
Yeah, she has, which is where the assumption that it's Rosebery money comes from.

They have included £5.5m costs of the new stand; presumably, that's what they had spent up to the end of June.

Thinking more on this, there is an argument to say that the £2.5m should have been deducted from the £5.5m in the accounts, as it seems to be a contribution to the new stand. I don't think it has been used for running costs, as you suggest, just that it might be (in accounting terms) in the "wrong place".

Whichever way you slice it, they traded at a loss... a loss that was not much less than ours.

What's the Rosebery connection to Hearts? Is it a historic thing? This guy is the current Earl and he just strikes me as unlikely type to be throwing £2.5 million at a football club:

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/lord-dalmeny-caught-speeding-on-3-wheeled-scooter-1-3829222

BSEJVT
20-11-2017, 05:37 PM
I heard it was 3 Directors, all Rugby wallahs, from Hearts supporting families who work at Baillie Gifford and have donated over £6 million between them, for the new Stand.

Don't believe everything you hear and don't listen to things you hear when you are pished

Folk with that type of money didn't acquire it by doling it out anonymously to organisations they have no real involvement with.

They give it to charities and are most like to be seen as the good people they are for doing so.

Anybody giving serious monies to a Football Team is off their chump, you only have to look at the abuse STF has received over the year for not bankrolling Hibs further.

The point most folk continuously miss over this entire issue in amongst the smokescreen of anonymous benefactors is how much FOH have given them.

Even the stupidest arse in the land will finally get something to work eventually, when they do the FOH monies will give them a huge financial advantage over us unless we step up to the plate collectively

That is why the continuing lethargy over HSL and snails pace progress on anything that HSL do is so damaging to us in the long term.

jacomo
20-11-2017, 06:11 PM
Don't believe everything you hear and don't listen to things you hear when you are pished

Folk with that type of money didn't acquire it by doling it out anonymously to organisations they have no real involvement with.

They give it to charities and are most like to be seen as the good people they are for doing so.

Anybody giving serious monies to a Football Team is off their chump, you only have to look at the abuse STF has received over the year for not bankrolling Hibs further.

The point most folk continuously miss over this entire issue in amongst the smokescreen of anonymous benefactors is how much FOH have given them.

Even the stupidest arse in the land will finally get something to work eventually, when they do the FOH monies will give them a huge financial advantage over us unless we step up to the plate collectively

That is why the continuing lethargy over HSL and snails pace progress on anything that HSL do is so damaging to us in the long term.


Hibs: fans currently own around 1/3 of the club.

How does that compare with Hearts again?

Your constant running down of HSL is a bit much. I'm sure there are improvements to be made but our situation is not comparable to Hearts, who faced the very real possibility of going bust.

Mikey
20-11-2017, 06:13 PM
That is why the continuing lethargy over HSL and snails pace progress on anything that HSL do is so damaging to us in the long term.

One of the problems that HSL has is as soon as they pop their heads above the parapet there's a small group of Hibs fans waiting to bash them back down again.

Tyler Durden
20-11-2017, 06:14 PM
...sits on hands....

😂😂😂

Tyler Durden
20-11-2017, 06:19 PM
The point most folk continuously miss over this entire issue in amongst the smokescreen of anonymous benefactors is how much FOH have given them.

Even the stupidest arse in the land will finally get something to work eventually, when they do the FOH monies will give them a huge financial advantage over us unless we step up to the plate collectively

That is why the continuing lethargy over HSL and snails pace progress on anything that HSL do is so damaging to us in the long term.

This huge advantage isn't happening any time soon though is it? At current rate of donation, the next 3 years will likely go towards the stand with another few years worth then paying off Budge.

BSEJVT
20-11-2017, 06:25 PM
One of the problems that HSL has is as soon as they pop their heads above the parapet there's a small group of Hibs fans waiting to bash them back down again.

The problem is I don't see them popping their heads up.

I want us to be more successful than FOH but its not happening

I changed banks 4 months ago and e-mailed them to send me a new direct debit mandate

Haven't heard a cheap

Are we just meant to sit back and pretend its brilliant , good or even acceptable when it isn't?

I couldn't give a rats arse about fan ownership although I have shares and have completed my HSL pledge and beyond

I want us to dominate those ****ers forever, sitting patting ourselves on the back that we own more shares than they do doesn't cut it for me.

I want HSL to continue to pump money into Hibs long after we have bought all the shares we can

Waxy
20-11-2017, 06:28 PM
It’ll be the pink and yellow peolpe from Queensferry.

Wembley67
20-11-2017, 06:37 PM
I heard it was 3 Directors, all Rugby wallahs, from Hearts supporting families who work at Baillie Gifford and have donated over £6 million between them, for the new Stand.

I find that pretty hard to believe but you never know. These people are all financial savvy and would not be *****ing their kids inheritance into a football club that's for sure.

Keith_M
20-11-2017, 06:46 PM
You know, it's just possible that there is absolutely nothing dodgy about this and the person just wants to give to his favourite club without any fanfare.

Wembley67
20-11-2017, 06:56 PM
You know, it's just possible that there is absolutely nothing dodgy about this and the person just wants to give to his favourite club without any fanfare.

Exactly. Folk are just looking for holes when it could be clear and simple, if true I for one am pretty jealous we haven't been given a gift of that size!

BSEJVT
20-11-2017, 07:13 PM
This huge advantage isn't happening any time soon though is it? At current rate of donation, the next 3 years will likely go towards the stand with another few years worth then paying off Budge.

So do you suggest we wait until its too late and we are playing catch up again?

We have our foot on their throats on the park just now, its time to press down hard

Sicken them once and for all and watch the d/d's dry up whilst we push on

Brooster
20-11-2017, 07:24 PM
So do you suggest we wait until its too late and we are playing catch up again?

We have our foot on their throats on the park just now, its time to press down hard

Sicken them once and for all and watch the d/d's dry up whilst we push on

Spot on. Now is the time for Hibs and HSL people to push on with HSL. There's massive potential here....lets tap in to it. We could easily be contributing £1m a season.

hibby6270
20-11-2017, 07:26 PM
Exactly. Folk are just looking for holes when it could be clear and simple, if true I for one am pretty jealous we haven't been given a gift of that size!

That’s not really the case though is it.
STF has been our benefactor over a number of years. OK. Maybe his contribution hasn’t been a ‘gift’ but it has been donated in proper legal business transaction that has allowed us to complete the build on both our stadium and training centre. That should never be forgotten.

Difference between us and them is that we pay our way day to day at an operational level without the aid of external debt or benefactor’s gifts. A far better state of affairs than having to currently rely on hand outs from rich fans or monthly contributions disguising themselves as being donations to ongoing share/club ownership.

FoH may well achieve it’s aim some time in the future but until then their fans will continue to pay out for what seems to be ostensibly working capital. From what I understand of accounting we are pretty much self sufficient. Making a small loss in a year is only a position we are at on one specific day in the year.

It’s no secret that HSL is contributing to fund our day to day operations rather than funding large capital projects like building a stand or ground extensions,, etc. A much better position to be in than Hertz.

To explain, both clubs latest figures on 30 June 2017 showed a profit and a loss.
Now if Hertz were to pay out bills of say £3m on 1st July, would that suddenly make them a loss making concern to the tune of half a million? NO!
Similarly, if we wee to revive a debtor payment of half a million on 1st July, would we suddenly be in profit? NO - not in accounting terms because there is still 364 days of the financial year’s trading to go before you declare profit or loss.

Sorry to go an so much, but sometimes we get to hung up of the figure of Profit or Loss, when the more important figures are Turnover and Costs. Ideally they should be increasing and decreasing respectively, where possible, and are a better indicator of how a business is doing.

I’m sure if any of the above is incorrect, someone will pipe up but it’s how I understand both clubs current position to be and I know who I’d rather be backing. GGTTH

The Tubs
20-11-2017, 07:33 PM
What happened to Jimmy Saville's estate?

Mikey
20-11-2017, 07:38 PM
What happened to Jimmy Saville's estate?

Failed its MOT.

Bostonhibby
20-11-2017, 07:46 PM
You know, it's just possible that there is absolutely nothing dodgy about this and the person just wants to give to his favourite club without any fanfare.Where were they just before administration? If they loved them that much they could have helped them avoid it and the stigma that still follows them around?

Maybe they only recently won the lottery?

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CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 07:47 PM
Where were they just before administration? If they loved them that much they could have helped them avoid it and the stigma that still follows them around?

Maybe they only recently won the lottery?

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They would have had to donate 10 times as much. :greengrin

Bostonhibby
20-11-2017, 07:50 PM
They would have had to donate 10 times as much. :greengrin[emoji4]

I'll set them up and you knock them in the back of the net.

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CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 07:56 PM
That’s not really the case though is it.
STF has been our benefactor over a number of years. OK. Maybe his contribution hasn’t been a ‘gift’ but it has been donated in proper legal business transaction that has allowed us to complete the build on both our stadium and training centre. That should never be forgotten.

Difference between us and them is that we pay our way day to day at an operational level without the aid of external debt or benefactor’s gifts. A far better state of affairs than having to currently rely on hand outs from rich fans or monthly contributions disguising themselves as being donations to ongoing share/club ownership.

FoH may well achieve it’s aim some time in the future but until then their fans will continue to pay out for what seems to be ostensibly working capital. From what I understand of accounting we are pretty much self sufficient. Making a small loss in a year is only a position we are at on one specific day in the year.

It’s no secret that HSL is contributing to fund our day to day operations rather than funding large capital projects like building a stand or ground extensions,, etc. A much better position to be in than Hertz.

To explain, both clubs latest figures on 30 June 2017 showed a profit and a loss.
Now if Hertz were to pay out bills of say £3m on 1st July, would that suddenly make them a loss making concern to the tune of half a million? NO!
Similarly, if we wee to revive a debtor payment of half a million on 1st July, would we suddenly be in profit? NO - not in accounting terms because there is still 364 days of the financial year’s trading to go before you declare profit or loss.

Sorry to go an so much, but sometimes we get to hung up of the figure of Profit or Loss, when the more important figures are Turnover and Costs. Ideally they should be increasing and decreasing respectively, where possible, and are a better indicator of how a business is doing.

I’m sure if any of the above is incorrect, someone will pipe up but it’s how I understand both clubs current position to be and I know who I’d rather be backing. GGTTH

Ok, I'll start. :greengrin

1. the first highlighted bit is wrong. Companies of our type and size will prepare monthly accounts and budgets. Hence they will know if they are profitable or not throughout the year, not just on one arbitrary date necessary for legal and other requirements.

2. the second highlight. That's not correct. HSL's contribution is to the football operation, not working capital (unlike FOH as was)

3. the third highlight. Not sure what you mean by that. Hearts showed a trading loss and an operating profit. Our accounts aren't in the public domain yet. It looks like an operating loss, but have you seen more than that?

4. what exactly is Profit if it's not a comparison between Turnover and Costs?

5. I do agree with your last statement. :greengrin

CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 07:59 PM
[emoji4]

I'll set them up and you knock them in the back of the net.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

If it's 2 inches out, and the nearest defender is 30 yards away with a gammy leg and a heart condition, I might just.:greengrin

CB_NO3
20-11-2017, 08:08 PM
So for the non accountants here. Does the 6.5m benefactor get paid back? Or is that free money?

CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 08:10 PM
So for the non accountants here. Does the 6.5m benefactor get paid back? Or is that free money?

It's £2.5m.

And naw....it's been spent. :greengrin

Ozyhibby
20-11-2017, 08:26 PM
You know, it's just possible that there is absolutely nothing dodgy about this and the person just wants to give to his favourite club without any fanfare.

It’s not just possible, it’s probable. Aberdeen and Partick Thistle have had similar free gifts recently. My issue is more with the lack of transparency given what has gone on in Scottish football in the past.



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Sammy7nil
20-11-2017, 08:37 PM
It’s not just possible, it’s probable. Aberdeen and Partick Thistle have had similar free gifts recently. My issue is more with the lack of transparency given what has gone on in Scottish football in the past.



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My money is on any one from Alec Salmond, Lord Foulkes or the Budgie :greengrin:greengrin:wink:

hibby6270
20-11-2017, 08:42 PM
Ok, I'll start. :greengrin

1. the first highlighted bit is wrong. Companies of our type and size will prepare monthly accounts and budgets. Hence they will know if they are profitable or not throughout the year, not just on one arbitrary date necessary for legal and other requirements.

2. the second highlight. That's not correct. HSL's contribution is to the football operation, not working capital (unlike FOH as was)

3. the third highlight. Not sure what you mean by that. Hearts showed a trading loss and an operating profit. Our accounts aren't in the public domain yet. It looks like an operating loss, but have you seen more than that?

4. what exactly is Profit if it's not a comparison between Turnover and Costs?

5. I do agree with your last statement. :greengrin

Thanks CWG.
I’ll admit I don’t have a full accounting qualification. Did do a few exams (many, many years ago:greengrin) that included accountancy as part of an overall qualification, so thought I had a wee bit of knowledge. Maybe not enough though eh?:wink:

The point I was trying to get across is that profit or loss isn’t the be all and end all in indicating how a business is performing. Some folks focus on that figure as being the case, when underlying figures need to be analysed to understand the full story. Figures published show the position on that specific date and as you say, they do change on a day to day/month by month basis.

On your points, I’m a bit confused on some.

1. Agreed
2. Didn’t appreciate that working capital was different to operational running. If your WC isn’t converted to cash flow, then you can’t operate effectively?
3. Operating/trading profit/loss? Are they not the same basically but one takes into account tax due? Haven’t seen our full accounts yet. They’re “in the post”. :greengrin
4. Agreed but what I mean was as long as Turnover is increasing at a similar rate to costs (or decreasing if that is the case), then the business is reasonably sound. Ideally increased turnover and decreased costs is best but maintaining the cost/income ratio is good.
5. Totally agree!!:thumbsup:

CropleyWasGod
20-11-2017, 08:47 PM
Thanks CWG.
I’ll admit I don’t have a full accounting qualification. Did do a few exams (many, many years ago:greengrin) that included accountancy as part of an overall qualification, so thought I had a wee bit of knowledge. Maybe not enough though eh?:wink:

The point I was trying to get across is that profit or loss isn’t the be all and end all in indicating how a business is performing. Some folks focus on that figure as being the case, when underlying figures need to be analysed to understand the full story. Figures published show the position on that specific date and as you say, they do change on a day to day/month by month basis.

On your points, I’m a bit confused on some.

1. Agreed
2. Didn’t appreciate that working capital was different to operational running. If your WC isn’t converted to cash flow, then you can’t operate effectively? The HSL money is funding the "football operations". Broadly, this seems to be the funding of players, rather than (say) the insurance on East Mains or Rod's moustache trimmer.
3. Operating/trading profit/loss? Are they not the same basically but one takes into account tax due? Haven’t seen our full accounts yet. They’re “in the post”. :greengrin Hearts made a loss on their trading, but with the donation that became an operating profit. You're right, though, that these terms often get conflated
4. Agreed but what I mean was as long as Turnover is increasing at a similar rate to costs (or decreasing if that is the case), then the business is reasonably sound. Ideally increased turnover and decreased costs is best but maintaining the cost/income ratio is good. :agree:
5. Totally agree!!:thumbsup:
.

erin go bragh
20-11-2017, 08:48 PM
Exactly. Folk are just looking for holes when it could be clear and simple, if true I for one am pretty jealous we haven't been given a gift of that size!

Whatever happened to that poster who was on here willing to give Hibs a million bucks .

Tyler Durden
20-11-2017, 09:29 PM
[QUOTE=BSEJVT;5225456]So do you suggest we wait until its too late and we are playing catch up again?

We have our foot on their throats on the park just now, its time to press down hard

Sicken them once and for all and watch the d/d's dry up whilst we push on[/QUOTE

I think they were in a unique situation and their fans have had an unbelievable response to be fair.

I don't see their FOH income being sustained at current levels for more than another few years and I don't really see the donations between both supports becoming a big deciding factor in performance on the park.

I can totally see your argument but there are 2 groups of Hibs fans that prevent us achieving your goals. I'm in the first group - people that buy STs and merchandise and generally think we're spending enough on our football team. Then you have the 2nd group - fans who lack awareness of HSL and have never fully understood the workings or the objectives.

007
21-11-2017, 01:36 AM
I can name him.


























Mister E. Benny Factor.

Thank you and goodnight....

cocteautwin
21-11-2017, 03:44 AM
The jury is out on whether it is a bank.

I wonder if the £1.75m loan is the loan from the construction company that was mentioned a few months ago by Budge?

I presume there wasn't enough cash to complete the stand so the option given to the Construction Company would have been for them to finance the remaining part of the construction themselves or watch the whole project fail?

To further fuel a conspiracy theory, is the construction company not owned by Budge's brother? I'm wondering if these mysterious £2m of extra costs on the stand are somehow connected to the Budge family and just a roundabout way of creaming more cash off HMFC? Is there any accountability at all on what the extra costs were spent on? It certainly doesn't look like a £15m main stand to me.

My theory is that Budge has foregone her 6% interest on the initial loan but has somehow manufactured an additional £2m of costs to put through her brother's company which can be extracted over the next few years by repayment of the loan the construction company have given HMFC. This way she can look like a hero to the fans but still extract her slice through her family connections. If the loan was from her brother's construction Company does it need to be disclosed as a related party transaction I wonder?

All pure speculation of course but it does somewhat rankle that they are coming out of all of this smelling of roses.

Viva_Palmeiras
21-11-2017, 06:36 AM
It’s loke the amateur magician that asks the audience to turn around whilst he completes
his trick - have the journalises fallen for this ? Unqualified Headlines would suggest so.

H13BYM
21-11-2017, 07:34 AM
Stephen hendry??

BSEJVT
21-11-2017, 07:46 AM
[QUOTE=BSEJVT;5225456]So do you suggest we wait until its too late and we are playing catch up again?

We have our foot on their throats on the park just now, its time to press down hard

Sicken them once and for all and watch the d/d's dry up whilst we push on[/QUOTE

I think they were in a unique situation and their fans have had an unbelievable response to be fair.

I don't see their FOH income being sustained at current levels for more than another few years and I don't really see the donations between both supports becoming a big deciding factor in performance on the park.

I can totally see your argument but there are 2 groups of Hibs fans that prevent us achieving your goals. I'm in the first group - people that buy STs and merchandise and generally think we're spending enough on our football team. Then you have the 2nd group - fans who lack awareness of HSL and have never fully understood the workings or the objectives.

Thanks for your reply

The first group you have quoted is absolutely fair enough.

My issue has always been that HSL haven't done enough to engage with anyone whether current contributors or not

We have 13,000 season ticket holders now, if we lop off an arbitrary 3000 to cover children and folk not able / willing to contribute that gives us 10,000 people theoretically capable of contributing monthly

If each of them paid £10 per month that is £1.2m per annum

or if only 5000 contributed and paid £5 per week its the same

That doesn't make any allowances for walk up fans or supporters that don't go for various other reasons.

I get completely that the gunts had their Administration event to galvanise them, we had our Scottish Cup Win and decided not to promote HSL on the back of it as folk had had enough expense, I mean WTF was that about?

If I had received an invite and thought (reasonably) that I had spent enough I would have blanked it.

In my state of euphoria I would have signed up for anything though, you can always cancel these things later on if need be.

The time to attack is when you are on top, we have a massive amount of goodwill around the club at present, probably the best in my lifetime but it wont last forever.

My concern is that we are wasting that opportunity by our intransigence and lack of engagement by HSL

Tyler Durden
21-11-2017, 08:13 AM
[QUOTE=Tyler Durden;5225585]

Thanks for your reply

The first group you have quoted is absolutely fair enough.

My issue has always been that HSL haven't done enough to engage with anyone whether current contributors or not

We have 13,000 season ticket holders now, if we lop off an arbitrary 3000 to cover children and folk not able / willing to contribute that gives us 10,000 people theoretically capable of contributing monthly

If each of them paid £10 per month that is £1.2m per annum

or if only 5000 contributed and paid £5 per week its the same

That doesn't make any allowances for walk up fans or supporters that don't go for various other reasons.

I get completely that the gunts had their Administration event to galvanise them, we had our Scottish Cup Win and decided not to promote HSL on the back of it as folk had had enough expense, I mean WTF was that about?

If I had received an invite and thought (reasonably) that I had spent enough I would have blanked it.

In my state of euphoria I would have signed up for anything though, you can always cancel these things later on if need be.

The time to attack is when you are on top, we have a massive amount of goodwill around the club at present, probably the best in my lifetime but it wont last forever.

My concern is that we are wasting that opportunity by our intransigence and lack of engagement by HSL

I think you're right that the opportunity is not being maximised for whatever reason.

Not sure what those in charge of HSL do to measure their own performance. How do you go about bringing change there?

MrSmith
21-11-2017, 09:30 AM
[QUOTE=Tyler Durden;5225585]

Thanks for your reply

The first group you have quoted is absolutely fair enough.

My issue has always been that HSL haven't done enough to engage with anyone whether current contributors or not

We have 13,000 season ticket holders now, if we lop off an arbitrary 3000 to cover children and folk not able / willing to contribute that gives us 10,000 people theoretically capable of contributing monthly

If each of them paid £10 per month that is £1.2m per annum

or if only 5000 contributed and paid £5 per week its the same

That doesn't make any allowances for walk up fans or supporters that don't go for various other reasons.

I get completely that the gunts had their Administration event to galvanise them, we had our Scottish Cup Win and decided not to promote HSL on the back of it as folk had had enough expense, I mean WTF was that about?

If I had received an invite and thought (reasonably) that I had spent enough I would have blanked it.

In my state of euphoria I would have signed up for anything though, you can always cancel these things later on if need be.

The time to attack is when you are on top, we have a massive amount of goodwill around the club at present, probably the best in my lifetime but it wont last forever.

My concern is that we are wasting that opportunity by our intransigence and lack of engagement by HSL

Spot on!

Apart from here and even now as a walk up, no one has ever canvassed me from HSL otherwise I may have signed up.

greenginger
21-11-2017, 10:03 AM
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hearts-owner-ann-budge-ready-7938322


This piece suggests the £ 2.5 million was put in by anonymous benefactors, - plural.

Do we know if it was from one source or several ?

CropleyWasGod
21-11-2017, 10:07 AM
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hearts-owner-ann-budge-ready-7938322


This piece suggests the £ 2.5 million was put in by anonymous benefactors, - plural.

Do we know if it was from one source or several ?

The accounts use the singular "donation" three times.

(Disclaimer.. maybe her proof-reader wasn't working that day.... or was :greengrin)

givescotlandfreedom
21-11-2017, 10:39 AM
They're short of other peoples cash while they wait on grants. Still got plenty money to chuck around on horses and other hobbies.

These sort of goings on give me the boak. A very Hearts-like partnership.

surreyhibbie
21-11-2017, 10:39 AM
don't see what the big deal is to be honest.

If (when!) I win a ridiculous amount of money on the euro Millions I will definitely be giving a chunk to the club.

Anonymously.

might see me in Hospitality before every home game though...:greengrin

FranckSuzy
21-11-2017, 11:25 AM
They sold a Turner for £30m. a few years ago.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/news/father-of-sotheby-s-chairman-lord-dalmeny-selling-prized-turner-masterpiece-9901511.html

It also crossed my mind that HMFC's use of the Rosebery colours for their away strip might have been a part of a deal. This is from 2016:-

The club is delighted that the longstanding support of the Rosebery dynasty has been assured as the club continues its remarkable journey. Son of the current the Earl of Rosebery, Lord Dalmeny is a keen Hearts fan and his son, Caspian Primrose proved to be a fine mascot for the team when he took to the field for the victorious end of season encounter against Aberdeen.

:faf:

HFCdeb
21-11-2017, 11:29 AM
:faf:

Agreed 😂

Ozyhibby
21-11-2017, 12:00 PM
CWG, can it be worked out from Hearts accounts how much of the cost of their new stand is already accounted for in these (and previous) accounts and how much will come in next years accounts?


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CropleyWasGod
21-11-2017, 12:05 PM
CWG, can it be worked out from Hearts accounts how much of the cost of their new stand is already accounted for in these (and previous) accounts and how much will come in next years accounts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

£5.5m had been accounted for up to the end of June. There's also a note saying that a further £5.8m has been contracted for, for "tangible fixed assets" (the stand, presumably).

So, that's a total of £11.3m. Not sure how the contract will be affected by the overtime payments in recent weeks. That will only become apparent in next year's accounts.

Ozyhibby
21-11-2017, 12:06 PM
£5.5m had been accounted for up to the end of June. There's no indication how much will be in this year's accounts.... because they won't know yet. :greengrin

£5.5m spent and they already had to borrow £1.75m. Happy with that. [emoji3]


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hibbyfraelibby
21-11-2017, 12:16 PM
Do we really care who the benefactor is? We have had them in past so have other clubs. What matters is that someone out there has pumped some hard earned tax evading dosh into the game in Scotland.

CropleyWasGod
21-11-2017, 12:17 PM
Do we really care who the benefactor is? We have had them in past so have other clubs. What matters is that someone out there has pumped some hard earned tax evading dosh into the game in Scotland.

Have they?

hhibs
21-11-2017, 12:58 PM
[QUOTE=Tyler Durden;5225585]

Thanks for your reply

The first group you have quoted is absolutely fair enough.

My issue has always been that HSL haven't done enough to engage with anyone whether current contributors or not

We have 13,000 season ticket holders now, if we lop off an arbitrary 3000 to cover children and folk not able / willing to contribute that gives us 10,000 people theoretically capable of contributing monthly

If each of them paid £10 per month that is £1.2m per annum

or if only 5000 contributed and paid £5 per week its the same

That doesn't make any allowances for walk up fans or supporters that don't go for various other reasons.

I get completely that the gunts had their Administration event to galvanise them, we had our Scottish Cup Win and decided not to promote HSL on the back of it as folk had had enough expense, I mean WTF was that about?

If I had received an invite and thought (reasonably) that I had spent enough I would have blanked it.

In my state of euphoria I would have signed up for anything though, you can always cancel these things later on if need be.

The time to attack is when you are on top, we have a massive amount of goodwill around the club at present, probably the best in my lifetime but it wont last forever.

My concern is that we are wasting that opportunity by our intransigence and lack of engagement by HSL


Yep.:top marks

NAE NOOKIE
21-11-2017, 01:41 PM
Do we really care who the benefactor is? We have had them in past so have other clubs. What matters is that someone out there has pumped some hard earned tax evading dosh into the game in Scotland.

Nobody would ever criticise a club for accepting a 'gift' from a fan or sponsor, they would be mental not to .... I dare say if any of us won silly money on the lottery we would consider doing something for Hibs, and Hibs would quite rightly bite your hand off.

What is laughable is Yams trying to use this unearned money to claim that they are operating more successfully than we are and are all over the internet bumming about it .... can it really be true that they cant understand unearned money gifted to the club can hardly be cited in any claim to be operating successfully on a business level?

HoboHarry
21-11-2017, 03:31 PM
I don't believe for a second that there is a connection between some unknown benefactor "donating" 2.5 million and the same Gorgie mob keeping stum on Sevco getting a place in Europe ahead of them given their financial position......

:wink:

Swedish hibee
21-11-2017, 04:10 PM
Tram money?

CropleyWasGod
21-11-2017, 04:27 PM
Tram money?

You're on the wrong track.

HoboHarry
21-11-2017, 04:36 PM
You're on the wrong track.
You're to blame if this thread goes off the rails......

Kato
21-11-2017, 04:37 PM
You're on the wrong track.

Sorry bud, but the Tram has only one track!

Onion
21-11-2017, 04:37 PM
£2.5m is a decent wack. Bet whoever it is is ragin that it’s all been *****ed on ***** project management :greengrin

Need to have a good look at EDC accounts for the year :wink:

Agree, that the authorities need to review these one-of "gifts" and how the receiving club is using the funds to run their affairs. If they use this as operational resources, then they'll soon land in trouble when that cash runs out.

greenginger
21-11-2017, 04:49 PM
£ 2.5 million !! , the donor could have bought the place for that sum a couple of years ago.

I wonder if it was any of the failed bidders back in their admin. time ?

One shoe Bob, the Norwegian group, ????

Second thoughts, maybe not. :greengrin

tamig
21-11-2017, 04:55 PM
£ 2.5 million !! , the donor could have bought the place for that sum a couple of years ago.

I wonder if it was any of the failed bidders back in their admin. time ?

One shoe Bob, the Norwegian group, ????

Second thoughts, maybe not. :greengrin
I suppose it’s a bit easier staying anonymous and gifting cash rather than being lumbered with having to build a stand and cope with any grief that may come your way from supporters.

IlDiavola
21-11-2017, 05:13 PM
You're on the wrong track.

That's not fare. :wink:

Tyler Durden
21-11-2017, 05:35 PM
£5.5m spent and they already had to borrow £1.75m. Happy with that. [emoji3]


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The deadline news report from first page of the thread suggests they have agreed a £1.75m lloan but hadn't yet utilised. Not sure if the accounts say differently.

CropleyWasGod
21-11-2017, 05:43 PM
The deadline news report from first page of the thread suggests they have agreed a £1.75m lloan but hadn't yet utilised. Not sure if the accounts say differently.

It's included in the section relating to Going Concern.

"The projections include:-

.....Additional loan facilities of £1,750,000 secured by the club effective from October 2017"

That suggests to me that they have already drawn it down, although the use of the word "facilities" might mean the opposite. :greengrin

The projections also assume a continuing of the £125k per month from FOH towards the stadium costs and "the realisation of new revenue streams and commercial sources of income from the operation of the new main stand".

hibbymac
21-11-2017, 07:10 PM
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hearts-owner-ann-budge-ready-7938322


This piece suggests the £ 2.5 million was put in by anonymous benefactors, - plural.

Do we know if it was from one source or several ?

Scottish tories trying to claim credit for securing £2.5 million for poppyscotland .... we all know where it will end up :wink:

£2.5 million donation !!! (http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15673010.Poppyscotland_forced_to_defend_itself_aft er_Ruth_Davidson_is_accused_of__politicising____2_ 5m_government_funding_for_charity/)

hibby6270
21-11-2017, 07:13 PM
Sorry bud, but the Tram has only one track!

Depends which way you’re travelling! :wink::greengrin

cocteautwin
21-11-2017, 08:38 PM
It's included in the section relating to Going Concern.

"The projections include:-

.....Additional loan facilities of £1,750,000 secured by the club effective from October 2017"

That suggests to me that they have already drawn it down, although the use of the word "facilities" might mean the opposite. :greengrin

The projections also assume a continuing of the £125k per month from FOH towards the stadium costs and "the realisation of new revenue streams and commercial sources of income from the operation of the new main stand".

Is the £1.75m not the loan from the Company that built the stand?


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lapsedhibee
21-11-2017, 08:41 PM
Is the £1.75m not the loan from the Company that built the stand?

If it is, why would that need to be a secret? :dunno:

Firestarter
21-11-2017, 08:50 PM
David Murray?

Tyler Durden
21-11-2017, 08:57 PM
Is the £1.75m not the loan from the Company that built the stand?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry but not sure what you would base that on. I don't think construction companies are in the habit of lending money.

lapsedhibee
21-11-2017, 09:01 PM
Sorry but not sure what you would base that on. I don't think construction companies are in the habit of lending money.
Read it as "We want all this work completed but can't afford to pay you. Will you do it anyway and we'll owe you the cost + 2.5%."

Michael
21-11-2017, 09:04 PM
Read it as "We want all this work completed but can't afford to pay you. Will you do it anyway and we'll owe you the cost + 2.5%."

Who would agree to that? Historically Hearts don't have a very good record at paying back what they owe.

lapsedhibee
21-11-2017, 09:10 PM
Who would agree to that? Historically Hearts don't have a very good record at paying back what they owe.
Well something was up during the fairly long period when there were only two or three people working on the site. Perhaps it was negotiations between Drs Budge and the builder about how best to proceed given that the yams had run out of money to pay for some of the work already done and all of the work that still needed to be done. Not saying a true fact, but plausible.

allezsauzee
21-11-2017, 10:31 PM
Don't believe everything you hear and don't listen to things you hear when you are pished

Folk with that type of money didn't acquire it by doling it out anonymously to organisations they have no real involvement with.

They give it to charities and are most like to be seen as the good people they are for doing so.

Anybody giving serious monies to a Football Team is off their chump, you only have to look at the abuse STF has received over the year for not bankrolling Hibs further.

The point most folk continuously miss over this entire issue in amongst the smokescreen of anonymous benefactors is how much FOH have given them.

Even the stupidest arse in the land will finally get something to work eventually, when they do the FOH monies will give them a huge financial advantage over us unless we step up to the plate collectively

That is why the continuing lethargy over HSL and snails pace progress on anything that HSL do is so damaging to us in the long term.

I wasn't pished when i was told and it was a company employee who told me

greenginger
21-11-2017, 10:52 PM
I wasn't pished when i was told and it was a company employee who told me


This is Baillie Gifford's sposorship program for 2017


https://www.bailliegifford.com/about-us/literature-library/corporate-citizenship/focus-on-sponsorship-making-a-difference-in-2017/

All wholesome worthwhile causes.

Would be strange if some partners went rogue and started funding the poppythieves.

But, what people get up to anonymously can be quite shocking . :greengrin

cocteautwin
22-11-2017, 04:48 AM
Sorry but not sure what you would base that on. I don't think construction companies are in the habit of lending money.

I'm pretty sure I read it on one the releases by HMFC and Budge earlier in the year, soon after the time of the announcement of the cost overruns on the stand. I've had a look at their press releases to see if I could find it but their website doesn't lend itself to searching through the press releases easily. I'll maybe have a look when I have more time.

It made sense to me as the funding to finish the stand was similar to what the overrun was.

BSEJVT
22-11-2017, 08:06 AM
I wasn't pished when i was told and it was a company employee who told me

Sorry my reply was meant to be tongue in cheek

I would put the chances of what you were told being true at less than 1% I know some of those guys and guys of their ilk and that is just not something they would remotely consider.

Charitable donations possibly, but they would rather spend their cash acquiring either property or other investments and Caspian Primrose's friends schooling doesn't come cheap.

Many want to retire early and do something philanthropic with their millions or take on Non Exec directorships to give something back.

They truly aren't in the habit of flushing their cash down the pan on things they have only a passing interest in.

lord bunberry
22-11-2017, 08:20 AM
Sorry but not sure what you would base that on. I don't think construction companies are in the habit of lending money.
Normally I would agree, but I found it quite unusual when Budgie released one of her many statements about the stand being delayed. She was at pains to take the blame, and absolve the construction company of any blame. She said that everything was on schedule, when it blatantly wasn’t. Construction companies don’t normally get praised for being behind schedule, and it makes me wonder if there’s any truth in this rumour.

Wembley67
22-11-2017, 08:32 AM
Sorry my reply was meant to be tongue in cheek

I would put the chances of what you were told being true at less than 1% I know some of those guys and guys of their ilk and that is just not something they would remotely consider.

Charitable donations possibly, but they would rather spend their cash acquiring either property or other investments and Caspian Primrose's friends schooling doesn't come cheap.

Many want to retire early and do something philanthropic with their millions or take on Non Exec directorships to give something back.

They truly aren't in the habit of flushing their cash down the pan on things they have only a passing interest in.

Yup, totally agree. For someone that has worked there nearly the whole of his working life I would like to think I'm well placed to make a judgement call...there are probably around eight directors (tongue in cheek) that like football and they are all west coast supporters!

greenginger
22-11-2017, 09:18 AM
Normally I would agree, but I found it quite unusual when Budgie released one of her many statements about the stand being delayed. She was at pains to take the blame, and absolve the construction company of any blame. She said that everything was on schedule, when it blatantly wasn’t. Construction companies don’t normally get praised for being behind schedule, and it makes me wonder if there’s any truth in this rumour.


I think Budge's statement about the delays was to save herself and the Club from a law-suit by Hardies after a previous statement had blamed the contractors.

There were many reasons for the project over-run that the contract manager/contractors were not responsible.

Starting the project without approved drawings, extra midweek football fixtures to cater for, pouring new concrete foundations for the front of the stand after the rear section had been built are just a couple that come to mind.

No doubt the final bill will be decided by the arbitration service.

greenginger
24-11-2017, 06:04 PM
PhilMac what do you call him , has had his accountant pal who usually looks at Sevco stuff take a look at the Yam accounts.

https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2017/11/24/rugger-guy-looks-at-the-annual-accounts-of-hearts/

Full of gushing praise, but I think he gets bit about an interest free loan from Mrs Budge a bit confused.

truehibernian
24-11-2017, 07:29 PM
PhilMac what do you call him , has had his accountant pal who usually looks at Sevco stuff take a look at the Yam accounts.

https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2017/11/24/rugger-guy-looks-at-the-annual-accounts-of-hearts/

Full of gushing praise, but I think he gets bit about an interest free loan from Mrs Budge a bit confused.

And unless the 'mystery' budg......I mean benefactor plans to provide similar £2.5 million annuities, surely they don't make for that good reading ?

Without that payment would they not have made a significant loss GG ?

Firestarter
24-11-2017, 07:33 PM
And unless the 'mystery' budg......I mean benefactor plans to provide similar £2.5 million annuities, surely they don't make for that good reading ?

Without that payment would they not have made a significant loss GG ?

A huge loss that Cludge has covered herself and by building the stand it's no bad at all.

Ozyhibby
24-11-2017, 07:45 PM
And unless the 'mystery' budg......I mean benefactor plans to provide similar £2.5 million annuities, surely they don't make for that good reading ?

Without that payment would they not have made a significant loss GG ?

Only about £200k. Not huge. It’s next years account that will be interesting from them.


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CropleyWasGod
24-11-2017, 08:34 PM
PhilMac what do you call him , has had his accountant pal who usually looks at Sevco stuff take a look at the Yam accounts.

https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2017/11/24/rugger-guy-looks-at-the-annual-accounts-of-hearts/

Full of gushing praise, but I think he gets bit about an interest free loan from Mrs Budge a bit confused.

He hasn't read the Note about the loan properly.

He has also missed the Note about Going Concern. Whilst not overly troubling for the Yams, I'm not sure I can agree with his conclusion about being "well-run".

Bostonhibby
25-11-2017, 09:36 AM
He hasn't read the Note about the loan properly.

He has also missed the Note about Going Concern. Whilst not overly troubling for the Yams, I'm not sure I can agree with his conclusion about being "well-run".He probably means well run compared to how they were previously run☺

My goldfish already spotted that.

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