The 2017-18 Ashes

[Mibbes Aye]

I'm taking the liberty of starting a thread for this :greengrin

Can't wait for this series to begin. Both teams have strengths and weaknesses, and whichever side capitalises on those will win.

Selection doubts for both sides - neither team have their batting order sorted. I can't believe Root can justify not moving up to three, but then Steve Smith plays lower down as well. There's still at least one, if not more, batting places to be decided for both teams.

Bowling-wise, Australia look formidable. The loss of Pattinson must hurt, as that would have completed the quartet, along with Starc, Cummins and Hazlewood. Lyons has quietly developed into a formidable spinner and I think you have to give credit to anyone who tries to follow on from Shane Warne.

I really like England's bowling attack but a lot depends on how Broad and Woakes adapt at the Gabba and later at the WACA. I suspect Anderson will find the most at the MCG and SCG, but the series will be three matches down by then.

I'm not the type to do predictions, don't do it in football and cricket is even harder but I will go for this - and welcome anyone else's views!

First Test - Australia

Second Test - England

Third Test - England

Fourth Test - Australia

Fifth Test - Australia

No draws, I think the emergence of T20 has made definitive results more likely, though it would be a shame if we lost the classic Test draw - there's been some beauties down the year.

My dodgiest prediction IMO is Perth - I think England will bounce back from a doing at the Gabba and do the business in Adelaide. It's a pitch that maybe suits them. When it comes to the WACA, it's easy to see how they might be skittled by Starc and Cummins but also easy to see Broad and Anderson having fun.

When they go back to the east coast I can't see the Aussies dropping games.

My side-bets are Australia 5-0 and England 3-1, and it's a joy to say it's that sort of series - anything could happen!

England will miss Stokes if he doesn't make it. If it's confirmed he's not there then I'll bump up my bet on the Aussies and if he is there I'll bump up my bet on England.

Bring it on :aok:

[Future17]

I'm taking the liberty of starting a thread for this :greengrin

Can't wait for this series to begin. Both teams have strengths and weaknesses, and whichever side capitalises on those will win.

Selection doubts for both sides - neither team have their batting order sorted. I can't believe Root can justify not moving up to three, but then Steve Smith plays lower down as well. There's still at least one, if not more, batting places to be decided for both teams.

Bowling-wise, Australia look formidable. The loss of Pattinson must hurt, as that would have completed the quartet, along with Starc, Cummins and Hazlewood. Lyons has quietly developed into a formidable spinner and I think you have to give credit to anyone who tries to follow on from Shane Warne.

I really like England's bowling attack but a lot depends on how Broad and Woakes adapt at the Gabba and later at the WACA. I suspect Anderson will find the most at the MCG and SCG, but the series will be three matches down by then.

I'm not the type to do predictions, don't do it in football and cricket is even harder but I will go for this - and welcome anyone else's views!

First Test - Australia

Second Test - England

Third Test - England

Fourth Test - Australia

Fifth Test - Australia

No draws, I think the emergence of T20 has made definitive results more likely, though it would be a shame if we lost the classic Test draw - there's been some beauties down the year.

My dodgiest prediction IMO is Perth - I think England will bounce back from a doing at the Gabba and do the business in Adelaide. It's a pitch that maybe suits them. When it comes to the WACA, it's easy to see how they might be skittled by Starc and Cummins but also easy to see Broad and Anderson having fun.

When they go back to the east coast I can't see the Aussies dropping games.

My side-bets are Australia 5-0 and England 3-1, and it's a joy to say it's that sort of series - anything could happen!

England will miss Stokes if he doesn't make it. If it's confirmed he's not there then I'll bump up my bet on the Aussies and if he is there I'll bump up my bet on England.

Bring it on :aok:

Wrong forum. :-)

[Mibbes Aye]

Wrong forum. :-)

Well spotted!

Could a kindly admin move this to "Other Sports" please?

Thanks :greengrin

[stantonhibby]

I'm taking the liberty of starting a thread for this :greengrin

Can't wait for this series to begin. Both teams have strengths and weaknesses, and whichever side capitalises on those will win.

Selection doubts for both sides - neither team have their batting order sorted. I can't believe Root can justify not moving up to three, but then Steve Smith plays lower down as well. There's still at least one, if not more, batting places to be decided for both teams.

Bowling-wise, Australia look formidable. The loss of Pattinson must hurt, as that would have completed the quartet, along with Starc, Cummins and Hazlewood. Lyons has quietly developed into a formidable spinner and I think you have to give credit to anyone who tries to follow on from Shane Warne.

I really like England's bowling attack but a lot depends on how Broad and Woakes adapt at the Gabba and later at the WACA. I suspect Anderson will find the most at the MCG and SCG, but the series will be three matches down by then.

I'm not the type to do predictions, don't do it in football and cricket is even harder but I will go for this - and welcome anyone else's views!

First Test - Australia

Second Test - England

Third Test - England

Fourth Test - Australia

Fifth Test - Australia

No draws, I think the emergence of T20 has made definitive results more likely, though it would be a shame if we lost the classic Test draw - there's been some beauties down the year.

My dodgiest prediction IMO is Perth - I think England will bounce back from a doing at the Gabba and do the business in Adelaide. It's a pitch that maybe suits them. When it comes to the WACA, it's easy to see how they might be skittled by Starc and Cummins but also easy to see Broad and Anderson having fun.

When they go back to the east coast I can't see the Aussies dropping games.

My side-bets are Australia 5-0 and England 3-1, and it's a joy to say it's that sort of series - anything could happen!

England will miss Stokes if he doesn't make it. If it's confirmed he's not there then I'll bump up my bet on the Aussies and if he is there I'll bump up my bet on England.

Bring it on :aok:

I see Finn is out injured now. As you say a lot will depend on whether Stokes makes it.

[Zazu62]

What’s the situation with Stokes? Will he play or not?

[WeveGotMcginn]

What’s the situation with Stokes? Will he play or not?

Aye Beaton only gave him a yellow at the weekend for his punch in the costa del sols :greengrin:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HH81]

What date is the first test?

See it's on BT sport's too.

[Mibbes Aye]

What date is the first test?

See it's on BT sport's too.

BT Sport have an interesting team, a few new faces backed up by the likes of Michael Vaughan, Graeme Swann, Damian Fleming and Adam Gilchrist, who are all very good in different ways IMO.

I’ve got BT Sport but Test cricket is probably far and away the best sport for listening to on the radio and I would happily have settled for that. The nature of narrating the game - short description of the bowler’s delivery and the outcome, followed by a minute or so of discussion while the players get ready for the next ball - means you get these five or six minute chunks every over, where the commentators will usually focus on a particular topic, maybe related to the game itself or the selection for the next match.

They are are usually informative and entertaining, but often in a slower game they will descend in humour. Or when Henry Blofeld was commentating, a description of what bus was going past the Oval, or what a member of the crowd might be up to.

Test Match Special, on BBC Radio is the exemplar, but for anyone who hasn’t tried it, I would recommend giving ABC (the Australian BeebJ radio coverage a shot. I assume it’s accessible on the internet. Their commentators are authoritative and knowledgable and have a lot more detail on the Aussie players and their history and form, particularly at Shield and grade level. The only thing to bear in mind is that they describe the score the other way round, so 10 for 1 becomes 1 for 10.

ABC coverage is particularly suited for when the Ashes are in Australia. It really reinforces how far away it is when you are up in the small hours listening to the likes of Jim Maxwell et al dissecting the game. The downside is you don’t get the quaint BBC tradition of breaking away from TMS to go to the shipping forecast! Maybe now, in the world of Radio 5 Live Sports Extra that doesn’t happen anymore though.

The first ball of the First Test must be pretty much exactly a week and a day from now - it starts on the morning of the 23rd in Brisbane, so allowing for time difference I think that will be midnight, crossing from the Wednesday to the Thursday in the UK.

[hibby6270]

What date is the first test?

See it's on BT sport's too.

Programme on BT Sports 1 starts at 11pm on Wed 22nd. First ball bowled is due at midnight and continues through into Thursday morning for day 1.

I’ve followed cricket for years, mainly as an armchair viewer. Played a wee bit at school.

Only ever been to one first class match. Part of my bucket list. Attend a Boxing Day Test at the MCG. Was there for first 2 days in 2006. Had the privilege of seeing live Shane Warne take his 700th test wicket (Strauss as I recall). Sitting there in a near 90,000 mostly Aussie crowd proudly wearing a Scotland cricket shirt.

What I didn’t realise when we checked in to our apartment on 23rd Dec was we were staying in the same hotel as the England. I say hotel, i5 was actually a top class building of self catering apartments. Russell on Saville Street or was it Saville on Russell Street? Not sure. Think it’s changed names since then.

Anyway, it was within easy walking distance from MCG. On day 1, by the time I walked back, I arrived same time as the England team. Got in the same lift as Freddie Flintoff and Manager Duncan Fletcher. The team had had a crap day. All out for 150/160 but had taken a couple of Aussie wickets towards close. There was silence in the lift. I turns to Flintoff and ask him if he could sign my Scotland cricket shirt. He just looked at me with a face like fizz, briefly smiled, said nothing. Didn’t sign the shirt. The lift doors opened, I got out and that was that!!

[lord bunberry]

England won the toss and chose to bat first. They always seem to lose when batting first.
Cook gone early, England now 16/1

[lord bunberry]

England going along nicely now 39/1. Vince and Stoneman playing well.

[lord bunberry]

Boycott is already doing my head in. I love how cricket commentators are relatively impartial with their commentary, but Boycott spoils it for me.

[lord bunberry]

England 59/1 at lunch. Bed time for me.

[HH81]

Good start for England. Glad I'm off work rest of week going to watch as much as I can tonight.

Watched a few Yorkshire games this season. Good game is cricket.

[HH81]

Thought overall it was England's day just.

200 up with 6 wickets in hand is a decent platform going into tonight.

350 plus needed?

[--------]

Aussie bowlers maybe have another gear or two? Pleasantly surprised by Vince.

Early days - too soon to call?


Why do drunk men have this compelling urge to render themselves total fannies in public?

https://twitter.com/abcnews/status/933621276022751233

I know - because they're men, and they're drunk. And they think nobody'll see them. :rolleyes:

[hibby6270]

Watched up until lunch, then the rain came, so went to bed.
First impression was, apart from the spin option of ‘Gazza’ Lyon, the pace bowlers weren’t up to much.
Admittedly the pitch didn’t help them. You’d think being the home team, Aussies would prepare a pitch to suit them, not hinder them. English batsmen dug in to frustrate the hell out of the bowlers.
Going to be an interesting series if it continues like this.

[Mibbes Aye]

The pitch is slow, very slow which is unusual for the Gabba. I read that they have had unseasonable weather recently which may have had an impact.

I think the Aussie pacemen are better than they showed - they were bowling too full a length and that's where England were gathering runs. Should also be borne in mind that Stoneman and Vince have a fair bit of experience between them, in Shield and grade cricket - they may be inexperienced at Test level but they're familiar with Aussie pitches and bowlers. This undoubtedly played a part in their selection but whether that's enough to succeed when the Aussies are performing more at their peak remains to be seen.

I thought Cummins started to look better when he started going around the wicket, that's when we started to see more of a threat. All in all, it's quite finely poised, but on the basis that England's run rate is significantly less than I would expect Australia's to be and on the basis that Australia can improve their bowling by a relatively straightforward tactical adjustment, I'm giving the Aussies the slight edge at this point.

First hour or so will be critical - how Malan and Ali face up to the refreshed bowlers, on their Test debuts on Australian soil.

[lord bunberry]

The pitch is slow, very slow which is unusual for the Gabba. I read that they have had unseasonable weather recently which may have had an impact.

I think the Aussie pacemen are better than they showed - they were bowling too full a length and that's where England were gathering runs. Should also be borne in mind that Stoneman and Vince have a fair bit of experience between them, in Shield and grade cricket - they may be inexperienced at Test level but they're familiar with Aussie pitches and bowlers. This undoubtedly played a part in their selection but whether that's enough to succeed when the Aussies are performing more at their peak remains to be seen.

I thought Cummins started to look better when he started going around the wicket, that's when we started to see more of a threat. All in all, it's quite finely poised, but on the basis that England's run rate is significantly less than I would expect Australia's to be and on the basis that Australia can improve their bowling by a relatively straightforward tactical adjustment, I'm giving the Aussies the slight edge at this point.

First hour or so will be critical - how Malan and Ali face up to the refreshed bowlers, on their Test debuts on Australian soil.

We’re also at the point where we’ll see how much England are going to miss Stokes. They probably need another 200 runs, the pressure is on Ali to stick around for a bit. After that Broad needs to make a contribution with the bat.
The pitch would suggest a draw being the most likely outcome after the first day, but if it dries up England could find themselves with an advantage.

[Mibbes Aye]

We’re also at the point where we’ll see how much England are going to miss Stokes. They probably need another 200 runs, the pressure is on Ali to stick around for a bit. After that Broad needs to make a contribution with the bat.
The pitch would suggest a draw being the most likely outcome after the first day, but if it dries up England could find themselves with an advantage.

Woakes can bat a bit, but his average is very much bolstered by runs scored in England. He's not batted in Australia at Test level before. He did bat in South Africa, which is perhaps closest condition-wise and he didn't particularly shine. Nevertheless I think he might do well on this tour. I find him likeable as a player and wish him well, though I'm hoping the Ashes will stay down under.

The pitch is perhaps the most draw-worthy at the Gabba in many a year but I'm backing the Australians to wrap up the remaining wickets and then set a total well in excess of England, while leaving themselves enough time to take another ten wickets. While Stoneman and Vince did well, the heart of England's batting (Cook, Root and Stokes) are out or not available, and while their second-tier (Ali, Bairstow, Woakes, Broad) can produce runs, I think the pace trio of Starc, Hazlewood and Cummins have the upper hand. I also think we will see things from Nathan Lyon. He's very quietly established himself as first-choice spinner and he's edging towards his 300 Test wickets, and he was probably the pick of the first-day bowlers despite not taking a wicket. Of course, if he is finding joy on this pitch then so could Moeen......

[hibby6270]

Boycott is already doing my head in. I love how cricket commentators are relatively impartial with their commentary, but Boycott spoils it for me.

Plus he has a bit of bad history with women. His first stint this morning was with Alison Mitchell.
He disagreed with most of what she said and to say he was very condescending to her is an understatement.

Hope they’re not paired up tonight.

Ah good. She’s on first with Gilchrist.

[Mibbes Aye]

Shift in the weather and as per usual, the Gabba pitch better-suiting quickies on day 2.

It's practically a new ball, so the Australians will be wanting to cause some damage before lunch.......

[Mibbes Aye]

Plus he has a bit of bad history with women. His first stint this morning was with Alison Mitchell.
He disagreed with most of what she said and to say he was very condescending to her is an understatement.

Hope they’re not paired up tonight.

Ah good. She’s on first with Gilchrist.

Really like Gilchrist. Non-partisan and obviously knows his stuff, plus he seems to relish just talking about the game!

Interesting start. Obviously more life in the pitch for the quicks but Malan and Moeen haven't looked shy so far.

[hibby6270]

Really like Gilchrist. Non-partisan and obviously knows his stuff, plus he seems to relish just talking about the game!

Interesting start. Obviously more life in the pitch for the quicks but Malan and Moeen haven't looked shy so far.

You could say - test cricket being played the way it should be.
None of the bish bash bosh ‘try and hit everything’ stuff that it sometimes descends to.
Hope it continues in this vein.

[Mibbes Aye]

You could say - test cricket being played the way it should be.
None of the bish bash bosh stuff that it sometimes descends to.
Hope it continues in this vein.

:agree:

I don't mind T20 or any limited-overs for that matter but a proper Test match, with all the variables it can offer, over five days is as good as it gets IMO.

[Mibbes Aye]

Couple of good overs from Cummins and Hazlewood, just frustrating the England batsmen - no doubt with the intention of drawing out a risky shot.

[Mibbes Aye]

Scratchy but well-deserved fifty for Malan. Credit to the England batsmen, they've knuckled down to the task of scoring hard runs. Lyon in particular has been challenging for them. I would have expected more from the seamers, Cummins is the only one showing any spark so far.

[lord bunberry]

Scratchy but well-deserved fifty for Malan. Credit to the England batsmen, they've knuckled down to the task of scoring hard runs. Lyon in particular has been challenging for them. I would have expected more from the seamers, Cummins is the only one showing any spark so far.
Starc has been a bit predictable so far. I thought he was going to be the main man in this test after he got the early wicket.

[lord bunberry]

Starc has been a bit predictable so far. I thought he was going to be the main man in this test after he got the early wicket.
He must have heard me.

[hibby6270]

:agree:

I don't mind T20 or any limited-overs for that matter but a proper Test match, with all the variables it can offer, over five days is as good as it gets IMO.

:agree::thumbsup:

[Mibbes Aye]

Starc has been a bit predictable so far. I thought he was going to be the main man in this test after he got the early wicket.

Patience :greengrin

It was fair comment though, Starc was the least effective of the three seamers so far. He is quality however and will come good. His record at the other grounds is solid, Perth especially.

Interesting to see how Bairstow goes.

[Mibbes Aye]

It's amazing how quickly a second wicket can follow the first.

Fair reward for Nathan Lyon's hard work.

[lord bunberry]

It's amazing how quickly a second wicket can follow the first.

Fair reward for Nathan Lyon's hard work.
We could see a few wickets tumble now.

[hibby6270]

We could see a few wickets tumble now.

You were saying?:wink::agree:

[Mibbes Aye]

We could see a few wickets tumble now.

Peach of a ball to get rid of Woakes, who should have known better.

Was about to post that Starc is good at wrapping up the lower order but it could be Lyon in this innings.

[Mibbes Aye]

Bairstow tripped up by the short ball, four wickets dropped now for 24 runs and we are very much in the tail-end batting-wise.

[Mibbes Aye]

Great catch by Warner, off Starc, to dismiss Ball.

Credit to Ball for a cameo over, with three boundaries. One wicket to go.

[Mibbes Aye]

Marsh drops Broad off Starc, at deep square leg. Chance to close the innings at under 300. England have crossed that now, which is a little psychological boost.

[HH81]

302 all out. I think that is a good score.

[hibby6270]

302 all out. I think that is a good score.

Yep. Better than it looked like it was going to be. Some nice unorthodox stuff from the 3 English fast bowlers.:greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

And Hazlewood wraps it up, getting Broad caught by Bancroft, pulling to deep square leg again. Hazlewood deserves a wicket for his hard work. England essentially collapsed after the first hour this morning.

Australia to bat now. It will be interesting to see what Anderson and Broad can conjure up, on this pitch. Also whether England will derive any advantage from having four seamers and a spinner, as opposed to Australia's three seamers and a spinner.

The talk is the pitch will harden up as the day goes on and into tomorrow. Fair weather predicted too. To an extent this won't favour Anderson and Broad, but they are both very experienced and talented bowlers and can take wickets regardless.

For Australia, Warner will be looking to make his customary high-powered start. Pressure on Bancroft as a debutant, and Khawaja who has never entirely convinced at No.3, and Marsh as the recall. I think between Warner, Smith and Handscomb, the Aussies should post well in excess of England, but Moeen will find joy in the same way that Lyon did and Jimmy Anderson seems to be defying the laws of nature by getting better when he should be phasing down, so it's all to play for!

[Mibbes Aye]

Bancroft succumbs, after looking fairly decent in his first few overs. Clever ball by Broad and good take by Bairstow, Bancroft should learn from that dismissal.

Broad edges closer to his 400 and a combined 900 with Anderson.

[hibby6270]

So is this guy Khawaja the modern day Doug Walters?
Plays well in Australia but not so good overseas.

[Mibbes Aye]

So is this guy Khuwaja the modern day Doug Walters?
Plays well in Australia but not so good overseas.

His averages at home are exceptional.

His averages overall are easily Test standard.

His averages overseas are weaker, in England and Sri Lanka in particular.

That's got to be in context though. He's only played 25 Tests, 11 overseas, seven of which were against the aforementioned.

He's not young and if he is going to cement his place in the side then I think he needs to do it with this series. I would give him time as a tourist, as he has been playing in a transitional period and it's a big ask to bat at three. Nevertheless, like Root for England, I think Smith should be opting to bat there - they're both the best batsmen in their side by a mile and shouldn't be taking cover by batting at four.

[Mibbes Aye]

And Moeen traps Khawaja plumb.

Bad shot decision-making, if the selectors stick with him then he has the chance to turn it around I guess.

Smith and Warner now, if Australia are going to win this Test then you've got to think it involves a decent partnership between them.

For England, a glimmer of hope.......

[hibby6270]

Why did they not review?
Similar to Ali’s dismissal. It was given out by umpire and with it being umpires call would probably have still been out. They wouldn’t have lost a review with the new rules And you never know once the DRS kicks in.
Or are we saying that an Aussie is playing in the true spirit of the game LOL :greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

Why did they not review?
Similar to Ali’s dismissal. It was given out by umpire and with it being umpires call would probably have still been out. They wouldn’t have lost a review with the new rules And you never know once the DRS kicks in.
Or are we saying that an Aussie is playing in the true spirit of the game LOL :greengrin

Doesn't 'umpire's call' only apply when the decision is inconclusive?

Khawaja looked plumb, so they would lose the wicket and the review.

I know the ICC changed the rules very recently so I'm not convinced I'm correct :greengrin

As I'm typing, the commentators are saying Khawaja gets dismissed at an improbable rate against off-spin. I fear for his future.

[hibby6270]

Doesn't 'umpire's call' only apply when the decision is inconclusive?

Khawaja looked plumb, so they would lose the wicket and the review.

I know the ICC changed the rules very recently so I'm not convinced I'm correct :greengrin

As I'm typing, the commentators are saying Khawaja gets dismissed at an improbable rate against off-spin. I fear for his future.

Yeah. It was just earlier when Ali was given out, they said the new rules more or less meant reviewing his dismissal was kind of a free review. Even if it remained out (which it was), England didn’t lose one of their reviews as they would have under the old rules.
It is getting late. Maybe I’ve misinterpreted what they said but it did come across as though as long as the review confirmed out and umpire originally gave it out, England didn’t lose a review.

As I type.......great catch!!

[Mibbes Aye]

Big, big wicket for England as they take Warner, caught Malan, bowled Ball.

Pressure builds on Smith and Handscomb - who has done well since debut but is still inexperienced.

[ACLeith]

They key now is whether the Aussie batsmen go on to make big scores, which the English lads didn't do. Saw a stat this morning that of 22 50s in test cricket Steve smith has gone on to 100s 20 times. Incredible.

[--------]

They key now is whether the Aussie batsmen go on to make big scores, which the English lads didn't do. Saw a stat this morning that of 22 50s in test cricket Steve smith has gone on to 100s 20 times. Incredible.


I don't really know why I feel this, but I think England really need to win this one - a draw won't be enough and Australia will get better. And to win this one they need to get a first-innings lead here - and not just 20-30 runs, either.

[3pm]

1st wicket of the 3rd day gone. 175-5.

[Mibbes Aye]

Clever ball by Broad for Marsh's wicket.

Smith, and the stickability of his partners, are what's crucial for Australia now.

If they can manage to eke out a lead, I think their bowlers will prosper in England's second innings, the pitch is going to offer something to the quicks at least into tomorrow and Lyon looks on form.

[Mibbes Aye]

On a side note from the match itself, for those watching on BT Sport, how good is Adam Gilchrist in the commentary box?

Barely into the third day and he's established himself as one of my most favourite commentators - intelligent, insightful, modest and self-deprecating, and completely unbiased.

[hibby6270]

On a side note from the match itself, for those watching on BT Sport, how good is Adam Gilchrist in the commentary box?

Barely into the third day and he's established himself as one of my most favourite commentators - intelligent, insightful, modest and self-deprecating, and completely unbiased.

:agree::agree:

[Lancs Harp]

On a side note from the match itself, for those watching on BT Sport, how good is Adam Gilchrist in the commentary box?

Barely into the third day and he's established himself as one of my most favourite commentators - intelligent, insightful, modest and self-deprecating, and completely unbiased.

Was always pretty impressed with Alison Mitchells contribution on BBC radio and I think shes doing a decent job for BT. They have put a decent team and programme together, perhaps not quite as slick as Sky as yet but its very watchable/listenable to me.

[Mibbes Aye]

Was always pretty impressed with Alison Mitchells contribution on BBC radio and I think shes doing a decent job for BT. They have put a decent team and programme together, perhaps not quite as slick as Sky as yet but its very watchable/listenable to me.

I don't think I was aware of Mitchell on radio but she has been very composed in this role. The other Aussies, Ponting and Fleming, have come across well. Maybe slightly disappointed with Swann, who I felt was really good on TMS but hasn't quite matched that yet on BT.

I would agree, the slickness that Sky had isn't quite there yet, but they're doing a decent job.

[--------]

I think the new ball may have just swung this match. 7 down and everything depends on Smith now.

[Zazu62]

Anderson looks like he has an injury problem.

[Mibbes Aye]

Cummins patiently holding down his end, allowing Smith to gradually chip away at the difference. This afternoon session will be vital for both sides.

[Mibbes Aye]

Smith gets his well-deserved century, real leadership stuff from the Aussie captain.

Lots of credit to Pat Cummins too, he's been a stalwart holding down his end. Over the last couple of decades the Aussies have been good at turning their quickies into decent tail-enders, Cummins may well be the next in that line.

[Mibbes Aye]

Cummins finally goes, but what a performance! He held his end down, while Smith drew back England's lead, and stuck a fair few runs on the board while he was at it. I get the impression he will be fired up when he gets to bowl again!

[Mibbes Aye]

Tea, third day, First Test, judgement:

England pros - Root looks a good captain in the field; Anderson and Broad are predictably capable; the newbies have batted well

England cons - Moeen hasn't shown up yet on a friendly wicket, neither has Woakes

Australia pros - Lyon looks good, the skipper is in very good form, an under-pressure pick in Marsh batted decently and Cummins batted like the tail-ender you dream of.

Australia cons - look weak in critical places (opening bat and number three especially); doubts about Paine at WK

Verdict - close, but still see Australia edging it at the very least. I think their bowlers will do more over the five Tests. And when it comes down to it, bowling twenty wickets is the key.

[Mibbes Aye]

Good, steady going by Australia, but patience from Moeen yields the wicket of Hazlewood.

Aussies four runs behind as Lyon comes in.

[Mibbes Aye]

Australians take a first-innings lead with a sumptious boundary from the captain

Smith especially, and Cummins deserve credit for moving things on.

I think there's still a victory in this pitch for either side, though the draw is very plausible.

A lot will depend on how good Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins and Lyon do on day four.

[3pm]

2 wickets down, still behind.

Aussies are 4/11 at the bookies.

[Zazu62]

Easy Aussie win now, England had them at 200 odd for 7, Ben Stokes is a huge miss

[weecounty hibby]

Easy Aussie win now, England had them at 200 odd for 7, Ben Stokes is a huge miss

He is a massive loss but I have total respect for the ECB for leaving him out. Can you imagine if he was a footballer and he did that, no way that any team or country would leave out their best player like that. Well done cricket and something football could learn from

[--------]

He is a massive loss but I have total respect for the ECB for leaving him out. Can you imagine if he was a footballer and he did that, no way that any team or country would leave out their best player like that. Well done cricket and something football could learn from


Can you imagine what the Aussie media and fans would be subjecting him to right now if he were out there? They'd be having a field day.

And would you trust him not to lose the plot and at the very least embarrass himself and the team? He's a terrific cricketer but one with a serious attitude problem. There's no way he should have been made vice-captain. One of Bairstow, Broad or Anderson - senior professionals - would have made sense.

Oh yes, and he's also fragile under pressure - remember a certain T20 Final? Cricket's odd - a team game, but one where individual confrontations are crucial. In that T20 England as a team played really well and should have won, except that when the contest was Stokes v. Brathwaite, Stokes broke and lost it.

They couldn't have taken him - I imagine the police and CPS would have had something to say anyway about him being out of the country while the case was proceeding - because bottom line, right now he's far more of a liability than an asset.

Anyhow - they had Australia on the brink and seem to have bottled it again. Match is still finely balanced, though. Tomorrow may have a few more surprises for us.

[Zazu62]

Moeen Ali batting at 6 is going to really hamper England, there’s too much pressure on him. Main spinner and a specialised batsman. He used to bat at 8 behind stokes and Bairstow

[Mibbes Aye]

Moeen Ali batting at 6 is going to really hamper England, there’s too much pressure on him. Main spinner and a specialised batsman. He used to bat at 8 behind stokes and Bairstow

I'm sure his average at 6 is way below what he has produced at 7 or 8, but also 4!

I think what we are seeing with Moeen is the impact of Stokes not being available. That's possibly stating the obvious but I think Bairstow is lower because he's maybe seen as better at nursing the tailenders.

[Mibbes Aye]

Can you imagine what the Aussie media and fans would be subjecting him to right now if he were out there? They'd be having a field day.

And would you trust him not to lose the plot and at the very least embarrass himself and the team? He's a terrific cricketer but one with a serious attitude problem. There's no way he should have been made vice-captain. One of Bairstow, Broad or Anderson - senior professionals - would have made sense.

Oh yes, and he's also fragile under pressure - remember a certain T20 Final? Cricket's odd - a team game, but one where individual confrontations are crucial. In that T20 England as a team played really well and should have won, except that when the contest was Stokes v. Brathwaite, Stokes broke and lost it.

They couldn't have taken him - I imagine the police and CPS would have had something to say anyway about him being out of the country while the case was proceeding - because bottom line, right now he's far more of a liability than an asset.

Anyhow - they had Australia on the brink and seem to have bottled it again. Match is still finely balanced, though. Tomorrow may have a few more surprises for us.

:agree:

It's been a curious game. The important thing from yesterday for me was the ending. Hazlewood is a metronomic bowler, he doesn't quite have the same in-your-face aggression of Starc or Cummins. He's probably the closest of them all to the great McGrath. Now that the pitch is starting to do more for the seamers I think they could wrap things up relatively quickly and Hazlewood will benefit from bowling the other end to the real quickies.

Smith played a key role and a leader's role yesterday, but I will reiterate that Cummins deserves enormous credit. Three important wickets in the first innings and then he played more balls than anyone other than Smith and Marsh (and by a long chalk) to not just hold down an end but to contribute runs, which gave that huge psychological advantage of a first-innings lead.

[Zazu62]

I'm sure his average at 6 is way below what he has produced at 7 or 8, but also 4!

I think what we are seeing with Moeen is the impact of Stokes not being available. That's possibly stating the obvious but I think Bairstow is lower because he's maybe seen as better at nursing the tailenders.

Throw into the mix Malan,Vince and Stoneman. England need a miracle to win this series

[Mibbes Aye]

Throw into the mix Malan,Vince and Stoneman. England need a miracle to win this series

I think Australia will win the series, not a doubt in my mind. I think Stoneman might surprise people though, I'm sure he has had something silly, like half a dozen seasons playing grade cricket in NSW.

It's grade cricket, so not even Sheffield Shield, let alone Test, but he has probably more experience of batting on Australian pitches than anyone else in the England squad, albeit against weaker attacks.

He's likely to do better when the tourists head south - Adelaide in particular will suit him I think, but by the same token it looks like the Aussie seamers are starting to get their act together and Lyon has been on fire in 2017.

As it stands, I think Australia will win comfortably at the MCG and SCG and will probably be strong enough at the WACA. Adelaide is a bit more uncertain and England perhaps have a touch more experience of day-night games.

[lord bunberry]

I'm sure his average at 6 is way below what he has produced at 7 or 8, but also 4!

I think what we are seeing with Moeen is the impact of Stokes not being available. That's possibly stating the obvious but I think Bairstow is lower because he's maybe seen as better at nursing the tailenders.
At what stage in the series do you think Stokes will be brought back? If England lose the first 2 tests I think he’ll be back.

[lord bunberry]

Starc should bowl that Yorker more often.

[lord bunberry]

There seems to be a lot of empty seats today.

[lord bunberry]

The Ozzie’s seem strangely subdued so far.

[lord bunberry]

England rotating the strike well here. Australia turning to Lyon.

[Mibbes Aye]

At what stage in the series do you think Stokes will be brought back? If England lose the first 2 tests I think he’ll be back.

I don't think he will be back unless the authorities (CPS?) decide not to prosecute. I get 'innocent until proven guilty' but I think it's an impossible sell, especially given the way Cricket Australia dealt with Warner for punching Root. Stokes and the off-field stuff would become the centre of attention and seriously damage the team dynamic IMO.

At the same time, I can see how and why they would call him back in, especially like you say, if they were going to Perth 0-2 down.

I assume it would be replacing the spot Ball has and Overton wants. Not great for their morale and motivation.

[Mibbes Aye]

The Ozzie’s seem strangely subdued so far.

They have been a bit lacklustre, especially given the new ball is miles away.

Lots to play with though - as I type, England are essentially 42-3, Lyon is looking dangerous and the seamers are too good not to spark into life at some point. Fielding has been pretty sharp too.

[Mibbes Aye]

And Lyon strikes again. Real inroads being made now and England will need Root to emulate Smith with the bat I suspect.

Smith meanwhile is doing wonders in the field.

[Mibbes Aye]

Hazlewood finding joy, with his third and the crucial scalp of Joe Root. Someone posted earlier about how good Steve Smith is at converting half-centuries into centuries. Root is the opposite - his conversion rate is awful and the loss of his wicket there epitomised that.

Lead of 92, they need at least 150 to play with and probably 180 to stand any chance. I don't think they will reach either of those figures though.

[stantonhibby]

Games a bogey

[Mibbes Aye]

It's certainly set for Australia to wrap things up fairly quickly. Anderson and Broad are too proud and too long in the tooth to make it easy but it could easily be well over before lunch without the loss of a wicket.

Looks like Australia will retain that very impressive record at the Gabba. It's not just that they haven't lost there in nearly thirty years, when they had a transitional side and were up against literally one of the greatest teams ever in the late-80s iteration of the Windies - it's also the margin of victory. Over a third of the wins in the last thirty years have been innings victories or by nine or ten wickets - they just about match the scale of the victories at the WACA but have lost several games in Perth in that time.

I thought all the bowlers deserved credit against England in the second innings. It was clear how they operate as a unit, with the different styles complementing different phases - Hazlewood's discipline at the start, Lyon's trickery in the middle and Starc's sheer power at the end. I think Paine deserves credit too - he's proven to have quick gloves and it was his appeals that triggered the reviews of Moeen and Broad that led to their dismissals.

[Mibbes Aye]

And that's that. Nice for Cam Bancroft to get a decent bat and to score the winning runs on debut.

Interesting to see what England do for Adelaide, whether selection-wise, positions in the order, or tactics. Adelaide and possibly Perth are the two wickets expected to offer the most to Anderson and Broad but it looks like Moeen might be struggling a bit with his finger injury.

[--------]

And that's that. Nice for Cam Bancroft to get a decent bat and to score the winning runs on debut.

Interesting to see what England do for Adelaide, whether selection-wise, positions in the order, or tactics. Adelaide and possibly Perth are the two wickets expected to offer the most to Anderson and Broad but it looks like Moeen might be struggling a bit with his finger injury.


Saturday - I'd think it's doubtful whether Moeen's finger will be healed by then. He also apparently has a problem with his side. Been carrying an injury for a while. But he's really needed as a batsmen, so ....

The tail don't wag and the top order don't dig in and make real runs. I don't think they've learned a thing, and Bayliss was as shifty and inconclusive in his interview as ever. I do not like that man.

Anderson and Broad are as good as any in the world. Woakes is searching for form but at least we can be reasonably sure he has some form to find. Jake Ball? Anyone?

And I think we can be sure the Aussie press will keep the Bairstow 'story' going at least until Saturday. It's the Ashes, after all.

Commentators seem to be settling in the last couple of days. Don't like Swann, though, and Bloody Boycott needs to tone it down a bit. He's been hitting 7.0-7.5 on the EE-BAH-GOOM Register and it's doing my head in.

[lord bunberry]

Stokes is in New Zealand to play for a local team. Clearly he’s being readied for a return to the England side if the charges against him are dropped.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/nov/28/england-ben-stokes-ashes-not-charged-cricket-new-zealand

[Mibbes Aye]

Stokes is in New Zealand to play for a local team. Clearly he’s being readied for a return to the England side if the charges against him are dropped.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/nov/28/england-ben-stokes-ashes-not-charged-cricket-new-zealand

The lack of subtlety by England is, well.......it's just unsubtle :greengrin

I guess if he is in NZ then there must be some indication that the CPS will make its decision before Melbourne, and more likely before Perth, and that it will be not to prosecute :rolleyes:

The rights and wrongs aside, England desperately need him but if he comes he will face the finest sledgers of all the Test nations - should prove interesting!!

EDIT: rolled eyes about not prosecuting aren't directed at the decision, more that the ECB might appear to have advance info

[Mibbes Aye]

Saturday - I'd think it's doubtful whether Moeen's finger will be healed by then. He also apparently has a problem with his side. Been carrying an injury for a while. But he's really needed as a batsmen, so ....

The tail don't wag and the top order don't dig in and make real runs. I don't think they've learned a thing, and Bayliss was as shifty and inconclusive in his interview as ever. I do not like that man.

Anderson and Broad are as good as any in the world. Woakes is searching for form but at least we can be reasonably sure he has some form to find. Jake Ball? Anyone?

And I think we can be sure the Aussie press will keep the Bairstow 'story' going at least until Saturday. It's the Ashes, after all.

Commentators seem to be settling in the last couple of days. Don't like Swann, though, and Bloody Boycott needs to tone it down a bit. He's been hitting 7.0-7.5 on the EE-BAH-GOOM Register and it's doing my head in.

Boycott is way over the top so far - it's interesting when they switch to the Comm Cam - Vaughan's facial expressions when Boycott is talking can be priceless.

I liked Swann on TMS but I haven't taken to him so much on Sky, he's maybe trying a bit too hard. Ponting and Fleming have been fine though, and as stated earlier I think Gilchrist is great. Not given ABC a shot yet though, Jim Maxwell is back having recovered from a stroke, so I might tune into them for Adelaide.

[--------]

Boycott is way over the top so far - it's interesting when they switch to the Comm Cam - Vaughan's facial expressions when Boycott is talking can be priceless.

I liked Swann on TMS but I haven't taken to him so much on Sky, he's maybe trying a bit too hard. Ponting and Fleming have been fine though, and as stated earlier I think Gilchrist is great. Not given ABC a shot yet though, Jim Maxwell is back having recovered from a stroke, so I might tune into them for Adelaide.


I think one or two of them need to calm down and remember that silence is a good thing at times at a cricket match. (These are Test matches, not a T20 Blast, after all.)

But oh my, do I miss Bumble .... :not worth

And after yesterday's press releases, maybe it would be good if Strauss and Bayliss shut up about Bairstow? the more excuses they make the stupider he appears - "something he does with his rugby mates". Yeah - Jonny Neanderthal?

Mind you, when I was living in the Highlands, there were a lot of young males banging their heads together in October-November time.

There was a lot of roaring went on as well, and it was called "the rut", and had a lot to do with testosterone and the presence of nubile young females ....

Maybe that was what it was all about?

[Mibbes Aye]

I think one or two of them need to calm down and remember that silence is a good thing at times at a cricket match. (These are Test matches, not a T20 Blast, after all.)

But oh my, do I miss Bumble .... :not worth

And after yesterday's press releases, maybe it would be good if Strauss and Bayliss shut up about Bairstow? the more excuses they make the stupider he appears - "something he does with his rugby mates". Yeah - Jonny Neanderthal?

Mind you, when I was living in the Highlands, there were a lot of young males banging their heads together in October-November time.

There was a lot of roaring went on as well, and it was called "the rut", and had a lot to do with testosterone and the presence of nubile young females ....

Maybe that was what it was all about?

Deer, oh deer.......

:greengrin

[Zazu62]

Would be good if Stokes was in this team. Just kind of feel cheated watching it knowing it would be a better game if he were playing eh

[Zazu62]

Would be good if Stokes was in this team. Just kind of feel cheated watching it knowing it would be a better game if he were playing eh

[Mibbes Aye]

Would be good if Stokes was in this team. Just kind of feel cheated watching it knowing it would be a better game if he were playing eh

It would liven things up, that's for sure.

By the same token, the Aussies lost James Pattinson to injury which would have had an impact on their decision-making. I think he and Cummins would compete for the third seamer spot as I'm not sure there's any chance they would have gone with four, plus Lyon (although maybe in days gone by, four at the WACA with no spinner, but Perth isn't the track it used to be).

Outside chance of Chadd Sayers coming in, if Cummins isn't 100% fit.

[lord bunberry]

The lack of subtlety by England is, well.......it's just unsubtle :greengrin

I guess if he is in NZ then there must be some indication that the CPS will make its decision before Melbourne, and more likely before Perth, and that it will be not to prosecute :rolleyes:

The rights and wrongs aside, England desperately need him but if he comes he will face the finest sledgers of all the Test nations - should prove interesting!!

EDIT: rolled eyes about not prosecuting aren't directed at the decision, more that the ECB might appear to have advance info
:agree: It’s all starting to look very premeditated.

[--------]

The lack of subtlety by England is, well.......it's just unsubtle :greengrin

I guess if he is in NZ then there must be some indication that the CPS will make its decision before Melbourne, and more likely before Perth, and that it will be not to prosecute :rolleyes:

The rights and wrongs aside, England desperately need him but if he comes he will face the finest sledgers of all the Test nations - should prove interesting!!

EDIT: rolled eyes about not prosecuting aren't directed at the decision, more that the ECB might appear to have advance info


It's not a very edifying picture tbh.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/nov/28/england-ben-stokes-ashes-not-charged-cricket-new-zealand

A hostile onlooker (and there are plenty of those!) might suggest that the ECB and the CPS have decided to 'expedite' the legal business to allow him to play. Apparently a 'new witness' has come forward (a cynic might suggest, very conveniently) and now BS is in New Zealand and raring to go for Canterbury - or maybe even England on Sunday if the Aussies allow him in?

All depending on a retrospective suspension in the event the CPS decide not to prosecute - he gets off with time served and no one will actually be told exactly what it was he did that night?

This smells bad - it gets more and more like the sort of dodgy stuff old WG used to get up to Down Under. Imagine English media reaction if Australia or Pakistan had something like this going on during a series here?

Oh, and might I be the first to observe that in the past we at least took the trouble to convict our criminals before we sent them out to Australia? :devil:

[--------]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42171706

Hmm. Pass the parcel? :rolleyes:

[lord bunberry]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42171706

Hmm. Pass the parcel? :rolleyes:

If you look at the cctv footage it’s hard to see how he can’t be charged. He must have a really good lawyer.

[Mibbes Aye]

Slight tangent from the Ashes, I'm just a little bit too young to remember Kerry Packer's World Series Cricket.

This is a good article (http://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/1125680) by the very, very good Australian cricket writer, Gideon Haigh, about WSC.

Any of our more veteran posters watch it at the time?

[--------]

If you look at the cctv footage it’s hard to see how he can’t be charged. He must have a really good lawyer.


A cynic might say that the most telling factor in his defence may yet turn out to be the fragility of the England batting and the lack of penetration of the England bowling beyond Anderson and Broad ....

What's a fractured eye-socket in the dark when England expects? Nay, desperately NEEDS? :devil:

[Mibbes Aye]

A cynic might say that the most telling factor in his defence may yet turn out to be the fragility of the England batting and the lack of penetration of the England bowling beyond Anderson and Broad ....

What's a fractured eye-socket in the dark when England expects? Nay, desperately NEEDS? :devil:

What's fascinating is that Stokes is seen, rightly or wrongly, as the answer to both.

The newbie batters have experience of playing in Australia at grade or Shield level, but when it comes down to Test match pressure, it's all on Cook, Root and Stokes. Cook has been caught twice when he shouldn't have and Root was lbw twice - Hazlewood got him the second time and could yet make Root his bunny.

Stokes has had one big score in Australia but in seven other Test innings, he averages 24. None of which were at Brisbane, so that's not a contributing factor :greengrin

Bowling-wise, he averages in the low thirties, which is decent but not great stuff. The only place he has had a major haul is in Sydney, where he took a five-for in the first innings in a Test that they ultimately lost by 280-odd runs.

My guess is he is an improved player from his previous tour, but his history is he goes for nearly four an over in the grounds he might bowl at, and he averages at bat in the mid-twenties unless he can up his game in an individual match.

I don't doubt he can be a talisman - I've seen him play, in the flesh, for England and he genuinely enlivens the team when he has the ball or bat. His record down under doesn't match the hope however.

I think the point about bowling depth is spot on - Anderson and Broad can restrict teams through their ability and experience, and can win matches if there is swing and decent seam. Beyond that, England are weak. Moeen is a decent spinner but freely admits he sees himself as a batsman first, and a bowler second.

That works when you have a Stokes as a fourth seamer. Otherwise you need to bring in a proper spinner and I don't think England can manage with only three quicks on most grounds in Australia.

If I was in charge of England I would be making sure Stokes was straight back in at six, as soon as possible. I feel sorry for Ball and Overton.

[lord bunberry]

A cynic might say that the most telling factor in his defence may yet turn out to be the fragility of the England batting and the lack of penetration of the England bowling beyond Anderson and Broad ....

What's a fractured eye-socket in the dark when England expects? Nay, desperately NEEDS? :devil:
The police are probably under more pressure to drop the charges after the first test. :greengrin

[--------]

What's fascinating is that Stokes is seen, rightly or wrongly, as the answer to both.

The newbie batters have experience of playing in Australia at grade or Shield level, but when it comes down to Test match pressure, it's all on Cook, Root and Stokes. Cook has been caught twice when he shouldn't have and Root was lbw twice - Hazlewood got him the second time and could yet make Root his bunny.

Stokes has had one big score in Australia but in seven other Test innings, he averages 24. None of which were at Brisbane, so that's not a contributing factor :greengrin

Bowling-wise, he averages in the low thirties, which is decent but not great stuff. The only place he has had a major haul is in Sydney, where he took a five-for in the first innings in a Test that they ultimately lost by 280-odd runs.

My guess is he is an improved player from his previous tour, but his history is he goes for nearly four an over in the grounds he might bowl at, and he averages at bat in the mid-twenties unless he can up his game in an individual match.

I don't doubt he can be a talisman - I've seen him play, in the flesh, for England and he genuinely enlivens the team when he has the ball or bat. His record down under doesn't match the hope however.

I think the point about bowling depth is spot on - Anderson and Broad can restrict teams through their ability and experience, and can win matches if there is swing and decent seam. Beyond that, England are weak. Moeen is a decent spinner but freely admits he sees himself as a batsman first, and a bowler second.

That works when you have a Stokes as a fourth seamer. Otherwise you need to bring in a proper spinner and I don't think England can manage with only three quicks on most grounds in Australia.

If I was in charge of England I would be making sure Stokes was straight back in at six, as soon as possible. I feel sorry for Ball and Overton.


Apparently the police are 'weeks' away from charging/not charging Stokes, so do England decide to go back on their original decision not to pick him until the legal position has become clear? Don't see how they can do that. And even supposing Stokes is given a full discharge - no case to answer - which may well not be possible, the pressure on him coming into the side as the answer to both the bowling problem (an effective back-up to Broad and Anderson) and the batting problem (a source of middle-order/lower order runs) would be immense.

Bad enough if he were just coming back from injury, but after a drawn-out period waiting to hear whether he's being charged with a fairly serious offence?

It's all very well for Strauss and Bayliss (do I not like that man!) to keep saying that there's no booze-culture in the England cricket team, and that they're all a thoroughly grand set of chaps really (needlepoint, cribbage, and a nice mug of cocoa, listen to the Epilogue and off to Blanket Bay?), but Bairstow is now established in the press and media as the sort of bamstick who greets his friends by bashing skulls with them - a quaint Yorkshire custom apparently. (Could 70-odd years of ritual Yorkshire head-butting be The Reason Geoffrey Boycott Is The Way He Is?)

And the player England needs urgently and immediately to bolster their batting/bowling order may be sewing mailbags by Easter.

How exactly are Bayliss (ewwww!) and Strauss managing this team? Not terribly effectively, in my humble estimation.

[Mibbes Aye]

Apparently the police are 'weeks' away from charging/not charging Stokes, so do England decide to go back on their original decision not to pick him until the legal position has become clear? Don't see how they can do that. And even supposing Stokes is given a full discharge - no case to answer - which may well not be possible, the pressure on him coming into the side as the answer to both the bowling problem (an effective back-up to Broad and Anderson) and the batting problem (a source of middle-order/lower order runs) would be immense.

Bad enough if he were just coming back from injury, but after a drawn-out period waiting to hear whether he's being charged with a fairly serious offence?

It's all very well for Strauss and Bayliss (do I not like that man!) to keep saying that there's no booze-culture in the England cricket team, and that they're all a thoroughly grand set of chaps really (needlepoint, cribbage, and a nice mug of cocoa, listen to the Epilogue and off to Blanket Bay?), but Bairstow is now established in the press and media as the sort of bamstick who greets his friends by bashing skulls with them - a quaint Yorkshire custom apparently. (Could 70-odd years of ritual Yorkshire head-butting be The Reason Geoffrey Boycott Is The Way He Is?)

And the player England needs urgently and immediately to bolster their batting/bowling order may be sewing mailbags by Easter.

How exactly are Bayliss (ewwww!) and Strauss managing this team? Not terribly effectively, in my humble estimation.

:agree:

It's been a car crash, from a management point of view, for England.

If Stokes does come back in, then there's disruption to the line-up, Ball gets dropped and Overton hasn't an earthly of being picked - squad morale can't be positive. Plus the Australians will relish it in the field - I'm convinced the word 'sardonic' was coined by some literary type who had the pleasure of listening to an Aussie slip cordon.

And if he doesn't come back, England will constantly be held up against what they might have done, had he been there.

They've got themselves into a situation where they can't win, metaphorically and probably literally.

Having said all that, Anderson and Broad could find joy in Adelaide and Perth, and Root and Cook know how to make a big score. They are still one of the best teams in the world, though miles behind India and without the potential that this Australian side has, with a few tweaks.

If Australia win in Adelaide, and I think they will edge it, then it's 5-0 for me.

[--------]

:agree:

It's been a car crash, from a management point of view, for England.

If Stokes does come back in, then there's disruption to the line-up, Ball gets dropped and Overton hasn't an earthly of being picked - squad morale can't be positive. Plus the Australians will relish it in the field - I'm convinced the word 'sardonic' was coined by some literary type who had the pleasure of listening to an Aussie slip cordon.

And if he doesn't come back, England will constantly be held up against what they might have done, had he been there.

They've got themselves into a situation where they can't win, metaphorically and probably literally.

Having said all that, Anderson and Broad could find joy in Adelaide and Perth, and Root and Cook know how to make a big score. They are still one of the best teams in the world, though miles behind India and without the potential that this Australian side has, with a few tweaks.

If Australia win in Adelaide, and I think they will edge it, then it's 5-0 for me.


More or less my thoughts. It comes down to the usual suspects again; Cook, Root, Bairstow, Moeen, and Broad and Anderson. Woakes might find the Adelaide wicket more to his liking, but they're stuck for an effective spinner if Moeen's finger hasn't healed properly. There are too many potential weak links for my liking.

And how Ball and Overton feel with the talk about calling up Wood? Nothing like showing a bit of faith in your players ....

But no doubt Bayliss will be out there an hour before start of play, telling us everything's fine, the players are in great shape, and the team's just raring to go ....

[lord bunberry]

More or less my thoughts. It comes down to the usual suspects again; Cook, Root, Bairstow, Moeen, and Broad and Anderson. Woakes might find the Adelaide wicket more to his liking, but they're stuck for an effective spinner if Moeen's finger hasn't healed properly. There are too many potential weak links for my liking.

And how Ball and Overton feel with the talk about calling up Wood? Nothing like showing a bit of faith in your players ....

But no doubt Bayliss will be out there an hour before start of play, telling us everything's fine, the players are in great shape, and the team's just raring to go ....
I’m sensing the beginnings of a vendetta doddie :greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

I’m sensing the beginnings of a vendetta doddie :greengrin

Trevor Bayliss is related to Joe Harper, or at least besties. Fact :greengrin

[lord bunberry]

Trevor Bayliss is related to Joe Harper, or at least besties. Fact :greengrin
That’s what I’ve heard as well :greengrin

[Zazu62]

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheBarmyArmy/status/933926809204269056/video/1

[--------]

Trevor Bayliss is related to Joe Harper, or at least besties. Fact :greengrin


That’s what I’ve heard as well :greengrin


Don't be ridiculous. My vendettas aren't genetically conditioned; I have a perfectly rational reason for disliking the guy.

Before he took the England job he was working as an estate agent. The only people worse than estate agents are lawyers.



And Joe Harper ..... :devil:


But I do wonder at an Australian managing an England team playing against Australia in an Ashes series.

It puts me in mind of one Bobby Brown and a certain Cup Final.

[Mibbes Aye]

Hard to see anything other than England going to Perth 0-2 down. Steady and patient partnership from Marsh and Paine that really helped Australia pull away, building on respectable batting further up the order . Given both players raised some eyebrows when picked, the selectors will be feeling vindicated.
Credit again to Cummins - I read somewhere that calling him a number 9 surely constituted fraud :greengrin.

Got to imagine Lyon is looking forward to bowling, there was a fair bit of turn on day two.

[Finn2015]

Tbh, the ashes could be going stale. The English can’t cope with Australian pace and bounce down under and the Aussies struggle against swing in England. Can see Australia winning this series comfortably and then England regaining them back in England

[Mibbes Aye]

Tbh, the ashes could be going stale. The English can’t cope with Australian pace and bounce down under and the Aussies struggle against swing in England. Can see Australia winning this series comfortably and then England regaining them back in England

I think England have benefitted in recent years from having extremely good swing bowlers, Anderson in particular, but the likes of Hoggard as well, combined with Australia not being able to replace the sheer talent they had throughout the team under the latter stages of Allan Border, then Mark Taylor, Steve Waugh and the early part of Ricky Ponting's captaincies.

Anderson won't be around in 2019 one would imagine. In some ways what you describe makes it sound more interesting. The dominance Australia had under the skippers I've just mentioned was monumental and they had it in England as well as at home - the Second Test of the 1993 Ashes was probably the epitome - six players batted, Taylor, Slater and Boon all got centuries, big centuries for the latter two, Mark Waugh was bowled for 99, Border bowled for 77 and Steve Waugh was unbeaten on 13 alongside Boon.

Australia then bowled England out twice, with the spinners taking fourteen of the twenty wickets enroute to an innings victory - this was just before the days of McGrath, Gillespie and Lee, with McDermott and Hughes coming towards the end of their international careers. This was during a period when Australia simply came to England and turned them over - four consecutive series victories, fifteen wins and four defeats and the defeats were often when the series was decided and the victories were regularly by an innings or by nine or ten wickets.

I remember that Test vividly and while I enjoyed it immensely, there is an extra edge since 2005, when England started being able to win again. I think it is a bit easier for Australia to win in England than it is for England to win in Australia, but there isn't a valid reason why England can't produce genuine quickies and similarly, the climate for swing does exist in Australia. In addition, Aussie spinners probably gain more going to England than the other way round.

[Finn2015]

I think England have benefitted in recent years from having extremely good swing bowlers, Anderson in particular, but the likes of Hoggard as well, combined with Australia not being able to replace the sheer talent they had throughout the team under the latter stages of Allan Border, then Mark Taylor, Steve Waugh and the early part of Ricky Ponting's captaincies.

Anderson won't be around in 2019 one would imagine. In some ways what you describe makes it sound more interesting. The dominance Australia had under the skippers I've just mentioned was monumental and they had it in England as well as at home - the Second Test of the 1993 Ashes was probably the epitome - six players batted, Taylor, Slater and Boon all got centuries, big centuries for the latter two, Mark Waugh was bowled for 99, Border bowled for 77 and Steve Waugh was unbeaten on 13 alongside Boon.

Australia then bowled England out twice, with the spinners taking fourteen of the twenty wickets enroute to an innings victory - this was just before the days of McGrath, Gillespie and Lee, with McDermott and Hughes coming towards the end of their international careers. This was during a period when Australia simply came to England and turned them over - four consecutive series victories, fifteen wins and four defeats and the defeats were often when the series was decided and the victories were regularly by an innings or by nine or ten wickets.

I remember that Test vividly and while I enjoyed it immensely, there is an extra edge since 2005, when England started being able to win again. I think it is a bit easier for Australia to win in England than it is for England to win in Australia, but there isn't a valid reason why England can't produce genuine quickies and similarly, the climate for swing does exist in Australia. In addition, Aussie spinners probably gain more going to England than the other way round.


Im old enough remember that to 😭. I think I’m right in saying that the Aussies haven’t won an ashes series since 2001 and nowadays, they seem to find it very difficult to cope with the swing and English conditions and indeed, the duke ball. Will be interesting to see how they fare the next ashes trip if as expected, they win this ashes series comfortably.

[Mibbes Aye]

Im old enough remember that to 😭. I think I’m right in saying that the Aussies haven’t won an ashes series since 2001 and nowadays, they seem to find it very difficult to cope with the swing and English conditions and indeed, the duke ball. Will be interesting to see how they fare the next ashes trip if as expected, they win this ashes series comfortably.

They haven’t won in England since 2001, but I think three out of the four series since then have been won by one Test which I guess makes it pretty competitive. It’s interesting times for both sides looking ahead - neither has a settled line-up now or a predictable line-up for next series, which is unusual.

[lord bunberry]

Great bowling from England in the final session today. I still can’t see them winning, but they’ve given themselves some hope.

[--------]

268 behind already, Australia with 6 wickets standing?

Pretty dire situation, tbh. Highest successful run-chase in Adelaide is 315-6 by Australia v England in 1902. Next highest is 239-5 by the West Indies in 1982. It doesn't appear to be a good wicket on which to be batting fourth.


I notice Alex Hales isn't being prosecuted and is now available to play ....

[Mibbes Aye]

268 behind already, Australia with 6 wickets standing?

Pretty dire situation, tbh. Highest successful run-chase in Adelaide is 315-6 by Australia v England in 1902. Next highest is 239-5 by the West Indies in 1982. It doesn't appear to be a good wicket on which to be batting fourth.


I notice Alex Hales isn't being prosecuted and is now available to play ....

I'm always wary of predicting but it's done and dusted IMO.

England will bat at some point during day four, chasing a target that they couldn't reach in their first innings. I would expect the middle to tail to manage at least another fifty, meaning England are chasing well in excess of 300 and that's game over, though if Australia declared at the start of play my money would still be on them.

I didn't see England's wickets today, will catch them on the highlights but the stats read two lbws and two close-in catches, one to the wicket keeper and one to Root at second slip. In those conditions I expect the Australian quicks to have a field day. They've likely got two shots at England under the lights, with Lyon also bowling well - if they can't wrap up England in those circumstances then they have serious problems. Sounds like credit is due to Overton and Woakes, for some resolute batting though.

Still, going to Perth 0-2 down shouldn't be too much of a worry. Unless you take into account that England have only beaten Australia once at the WACA and that was in 1978, plus I think this is the last time the WACA will be used for an Ashes Test, so there's the small matter of Australian pride.......

[Mibbes Aye]

As an aside, watching Vince give away his wicket cheaply reminded me that I still think it's bad tactics by England to allow Root to play at four. He's the best player and he's the captain and he should take responsibility and slot in at three, even if it means his average suffers.

To an extent, Steve Smith isn't immune from the same criticism, for the same reasons. His saving grace is that Khawaja averages well enough at first man in, and averages especially well on home soil. I'm not a fan of Khuwaja though - almost half his dismissals have been to spin and at his age he should have sorted his technique out.

[Zazu62]

Why didn’t England bat first, and why didn’t Smith enforce the follow on?

[Mibbes Aye]

Why didn’t England bat first, and why didn’t Smith enforce the follow on?

I believe Root gambled on his bowlers, particularly Anderson and Broad, based on the expected weather conditions. I think that's a fair decision given England rely on Cook and Root at bat, Anderson and Broad with the ball, and Moeen and Stokes in-between. It's looking like the wrong decision but I can see why he made it, especially given Australia have won day-nighters at Adelaide fielding first. Nevertheless, it's proving wrong and just about everybody and their dog would have chosen to bat first.

Regarding the follow-on, it's really fallen out of fashion over the last couple of decades. I think a lot of that is to do with the quicks being asked to push harder, so they physically need the rest. Plus pitches generally, and this one in particular, are going to benefit the bowlers come the fourth innings. A lot of talk relates to the 2001 Test between India and Australia, where Australia enforced the follow-on only to face spectacular batting by Laxman and Dravid, and then bowling by Harbajan and subsequently lost. I think that's misleading and it is essentially about resting your quicks and taking advantage of the deteriorating pitch on fourth innings.

All that's just my opinion. The beauty of cricket is that there will be perfectly reasonable and fair points of view that are in complete disagreement to mine :greengrin

[weecounty hibby]

I believe Root gambled on his bowlers, particularly Anderson and Broad, based on the expected weather conditions. I think that's a fair decision given England rely on Cook and Root at bat, Anderson and Broad with the ball, and Moeen and Stokes in-between. It's looking like the wrong decision but I can see why he made it, especially given Australia have won day-nighters at Adelaide fielding first. Nevertheless, it's proving wrong and just about everybody and their dog would have chosen to bat first.

Regarding the follow-on, it's really fallen out of fashion over the last couple of decades. I think a lot of that is to do with the quicks being asked to push harder, so they physically need the rest. Plus pitches generally, and this one in particular, are going to benefit the bowlers come the fourth innings. A lot of talk relates to the 2001 Test between India and Australia, where Australia enforced the follow-on only to face spectacular batting by Laxman and Dravid, and then bowling by Harbajan and subsequently lost. I think that's misleading and it is essentially about resting your quicks and taking advantage of the deteriorating pitch on fourth innings.

All that's just my opinion. The beauty of cricket is that there will be perfectly reasonable and fair points of view that are in complete disagreement to mine :greengrin
Not sure about the everyone would have batted first. I'm sure I read that Root was the first captain in 25 years who had won the toss in Adelaide and batted first. Day night is different obviously but surely the history tells you something. Trying to be too clever perhaps.

[Mibbes Aye]

Not sure about the everyone would have batted first. I'm sure I read that Root was the first captain in 25 years who had won the toss in Adelaide and batted first. Day night is different obviously but surely the history tells you something. Trying to be too clever perhaps.

Not sure I worded my post right - I would have batted first. Steve Smith said he would. I read Shane Warne saying he would. Just about the whole of the English and Australian press is questioning Root's decision. And you've quoted the stats as to why the skipper should choose to bat first.

If I'm reading you right I agree with your last sentence. I think he maybe was trying to be too clever, which is fair enough and definitely worth a shot after losing the first Test, but not losing it awfully. It's a tricky job being captain and I can see why he might have chosen to gamble on his bowlers. Going defensive would invite the draw at best, followed up by a trip to Perth where England can't find a win, then the MCG and SCG, where the Aussies will be stoked.

In summary, Root gambled and it's looking like it's failed. Sometimes it's right to gamble, even if it fails though. I think he's tried to go for the win from the toss and come up short and I would give him credit for that. Australia have just been better.

Day/night is obviously a gamechanger though and a learning curve for all sides - the ball moves differently under the lights.

[weecounty hibby]

Captaincy is tough. I remember captaining Clackmannanshire U16s in the local industrial league waaaaaay back and I hated it. The history at Adelaide and the fact that to be honest the bowlers have won for England more than the batters recently I just think it was a poor choice.

[Mibbes Aye]

Captaincy is tough. I remember captaining Clackmannanshire U16s in the local industrial league waaaaaay back and I hated it. The history at Adelaide and the fact that to be honest the bowlers have won for England more than the batters recently I just think it was a poor choice.

:greengrin Credit.

I'm still in two minds about the choice. I don't think the result is in doubt, the Australians will win. Could England have won had they batted first? It's hard to tell. It's a pitch that was showing for the quicks as well as offering turn for the spinners early, so they could easily have dismissed England quickly in the first innings, with Lyon replacing Starc as the one who mops up the tail-end.

By the same token, the Aussies got runs on the board and were then able to take ten wickets. For England, I liked Woakes and his partnership with Overton was the only thing that keeps England in the match.

It feels like Root thought he had to go for it, which I understand. I actually probably do agree with it - sometimes it's okay to make a decision which doesn't work out. England were flushed after the First Test IMO, so Adelaide was always going to be go-for-broke.

Captaincy is definitely a tough call though. Root will learn from Adelaide and will likely captain England for many years to come and no doubt use the learning to his advantage.

[lord bunberry]

Australia looking seriously rattled now. Smith will be praying this game doesn’t slip away. Root and Malan looking well settled and Australia have no reviews left. England 168/3, needing 186 to win.

[JeMeSouviens]

Been listening to this all morning. Weird because it's been really tense even though Australia are still massively short odds favourites. England at least showing some fight though.

[lord bunberry]

Big wicket for Australia, Malan bowled by Cummings. Woakes comes in as night watchman.

[lord bunberry]

Been listening to this all morning. Weird because it's been really tense even though Australia are still massively short odds favourites. England at least showing some fight though.
Yeah finally it’s a contest.

[--------]

Been listening to this all morning. Weird because it's been really tense even though Australia are still massively short odds favourites. England at least showing some fight though.

I'm not sure about the odds now. England are halfway there with 6 standing. Australia need a couple of quick wickets tomorrow morning. Woakes is a capable batsman and Root's the genuine article; another 178 runs isn't beyond them.

I didn't expect this at all.

[JeMeSouviens]

I'm not sure about the odds now. England are halfway there with 6 standing. Australia need a couple of quick wickets tomorrow morning. Woakes is a capable batsman and Root's the genuine article; another 178 runs isn't beyond them.

I didn't expect this at all.

It's not completely impossible but you wouldn't expect Overton, Anderson or Broad (these days for understandable reasons) to last long, so Aus effectively need 2 out of Root, Ali & Bairstow and the game's theirs. On a 5th day pitch there's very little chance for England. It would make the top 10 of all-time test run chases anywhere!

[Mibbes Aye]

Been listening to this all morning. Weird because it's been really tense even though Australia are still massively short odds favourites. England at least showing some fight though.

Credit to England for making a decent fist of it and going into day five with the chance of a win - it would be one for the history books, if they pull it off, as you said in your other post.

While they still have strength at bat, in Root and Woakes, with Moeen and Bairstow to come, experience suggests that a victory should be beyond them - the pitch was an absolute beauty for the bowlers in the last couple of hours of play. This England team have shown themselves capable of stretching games out to day five however, and indeed the final session of day five, so it's all set for an exciting finale.

Lots of praise for Anderson - he had some sublime bowling, but Woakes deserves praise as well, snagging probably the four most important wickets. I thought Overton did well in the field, to add to his performance with the bat, though he practically didn't bowl in the Australian second innings.

For Australia, there were far too many runs conceded off the legside, especially at the start of the innings. As time went on however, the quicks really got into it, particularly Pat Cummins. He looks like an outstanding bowler, with the capacity to put runs on the board as a batsman as well.

Australia look set with their bowling - there are four or five good seamers in the mid-twenties bracket and while Lyon is a little older, he still has years in him yet and seems to be getting better as he matures.

Gaps in the batting though - Khawaja and Handscomb have difficulties with their technique and it's probably too early to say whether Bancroft can hold down his place. I liked the look of Matt Renshaw and potentially he could come back with Bancroft further down the order - interestingly, Bancroft can play as wicketkeeper, though it would be a bit unfair on Paine who has done nothing wrong since being recalled. As with Root, I think Smith should move up to three.

[Mibbes Aye]

Interesting commentary in the build-up to day five that Steve Smith didn't speak to his quicks when he decided to enforce the follow-on.

I'm not sure it makes a difference and I don't think it's as big a deal as Root's decision at the toss. If Australia do go on and win then nobody will even think about it.

Still, should he speak to them? When I think of Steve Waugh, I think of someone who would be making his decision by himself, yet he would have had very strong personalities in the bowling line-up, Warne especially but McGrath too, who would have had thoughts about tactics.

[Mibbes Aye]

Just about set to go. One day of cricket. If England can bat their way to victory then they will have broken or re-set various records - that's no small task. If Australia win then they go to Perth two up to a ground where England haven't won in forty years. It's hard not to love the Ashes :greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

Hazlewood takes Woakes with the second ball, albeit controversially.

Interesting debate about DRS and first call, though I suspect it all ends up at the same place - namely that umpires normally get it right but miss the very odd LBW.

Looking forward to seeing Starc, Cummins and Lyon bowl, given what the pitch has done for Hazlewood :greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

Oh what a fine over by Mitchell Starc. This is a finely-balanced Test match but I would put all my earthly gains on Australia.

[Mibbes Aye]

And Hazlewood takes Root, finest of edges to the wicketkeeper.

Root fails to convert a half-century again.

Hazlewood shows discipline and precision again.

Moeen and Bairstow now, to essentially save the Ashes?

[Mibbes Aye]

Touching on another poster's previous point about Aussies dealing with swing - Hazlewood looks like he has it. He could do very well on tour in England.

[Mibbes Aye]

Silly shot from Moeen and Lyon takes yet another deserved wicket - what a year he is having. I think he is the leading wicket-taker in the calendar year, which is quite remarkable.

[Mibbes Aye]

Silly shot from Moeen and Lyon takes yet another deserved wicket - what a year he is having. I think he is the leading wicket-taker in the calendar year, which is quite remarkable.

BT just covering it - he has taken 57 at 21.96. That's simply exceptional. There was huge fear factor after Australia lost Warne, Lyon has quietly stepped up and if 2017 isn't his best year ever (and so far it is) then we've got something to look forward to.

[Mibbes Aye]

And Cummins just hit Overton in the upper ribs - nasty and brutal, but fair. For those of a decent vintage it was reminiscent of your typical eighties Windies ball.

I think Cummins is quite the player. He can bowl 90mph and he can bat. I like him a lot.

[Mibbes Aye]

Quite the enticing game. There's enough in here for both sides.

Still backing the Aussies :greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

It doesn't look like they need it but the new ball is available now.

Hard to see them passing it by.

[Mibbes Aye]

And straight away, first ball off the new ball, Starc takes Overton.

[Mibbes Aye]

Good stroke from Bairstow down the ground, but this is surely the death knell for England.

[Mibbes Aye]

Starc's got Broad.

Tenth wicket and its hard to seeing it going any other way.

[Mibbes Aye]

Five-nil without a doubt.

[hibby6270]

Ah well. That’s the Ashes gone imo. On to Perth.
Aussie bowlers just showing how good they are in home conditions.
English batsmen unable to cope.
That said, if you think of all the ‘play and miss’ shots Aussie batsmen had, were England just unlucky or are the Aussie batsmen just better at missing those balls compared to how the English batsmen play them?

Back to bed now methinks.:zzzzz!:

[Mibbes Aye]

Where do you begin?

To win a Test match you need to take twenty wickets, simple as as that.

Josh Hazlewood, Pat Cummins, Mitchell Starc and Nathan Lyon did that. That's why England lost and deservedly so.

Great Test match and a fair result.

[hibby6270]

Five-nil without a doubt.

I’d say ‘probably’ rather than ‘without a doubt’.

[JeMeSouviens]

Ah well. That’s the Ashes gone imo. On to Perth.
Aussie bowlers just showing how good they are in home conditions.
English batsmen unable to cope.
That said, if you think of all the ‘play and miss’ shots Aussie batsmen had, were England just unlucky or are the Aussie batsmen just better at missing those balls compared to how the English batsmen play them?

Back to bed now methinks.:zzzzz!:

I think that's the vital factor. Unless the teams are hopelessly mismatched as at the peak of Warne, McGrath, Ponting & co, then the home advantage of playing in local conditions is huge.

[BroxburnHibee]

Five-nil without a doubt.

I'd agree with that. Losing those last 6 wickets for 50 runs was typical England.

I don't think there's much between the batting line ups but the difference in the bowling is glaring.

[weecounty hibby]

All a matter of bottle and patience as well as ability. 120 runs is only Root going on to make a decent century and Cook scoring some runs. The middle to lower order contributing as well. If the roles had been reversed Australia would have ground those runs out. England's batsmen for years, with one or two note able exceptions, struggle to stay in when the going gets tough. Battle, scratch about stay in, score slowly just don't get out playing poor/stupid shots.

[IWasThere2016]

Five-nil without a doubt.

I'm on 3-0 and 3-1 .. I was clearly too kind on Engerland :rolleyes:

[Mibbes Aye]

I'm on 3-0 and 3-1 .. I was clearly too kind on Engerland :rolleyes:

I started the thread with a prediction of 3-2 to the Aussies :rolleyes: :greengrin

I thought the Gabba would be a walkover but England would play better under the lights in Adelaide. Shows how much I know.......

I had fancied England to overturn history and get a result in Perth, but two Tests in and the difference in pace between the teams is noticeable - if the wicket at the WACA is true then Cummins is likely to hurt someone badly!

[Mibbes Aye]

I’d say ‘probably’ rather than ‘without a doubt’.

I think you are wiser than me, I was posting in pretty sleep-deprived conditions :greengrin

I think it will be five though, or 4-1. Ashes games don't tend to end in draws in recent history, especially in Australia and when there have been draws recently, they were weather-related in Brisbane IIRC.

Three matches left, I expect Bancroft and Khawaja to post big scores, not necessarily in the same game (and even though I don't rate Khawaja).

Smith will remind everyone why he is one of the top four batsmen in the world and Warner will manage an explosive nick to remind everyone why he is carrying on the legacy of Adam Gilchrist.

I think Hazlewood will take a lot of wickets from here on in. Plus Cummins will quite possibly maim someone - he was getting 90+mph in Adelaide so Perth should probably be declared illegal on health and safety grounds.

For England, I think the bowling will come good at some point - Anderson and Broad have been decent so far and Woakes started to really click in Adelaide. If Overton finds his game (or Stokes returns) then there's a pace quartet that can cause problems. Batting-wise, it's a struggle. Vince doesn't convince. Cook has struggled, other than briefly showing up for the first innings in Adelaide. And Moeen has been found out by Nathan Lyon - every series usually has a bunny and it looks like Lyon has got one in Ali.

As a side prediction, I'm going to back Lyon to end up as Australia's leading wicket-taker. I don't think he will do much in Perth, but I think he will find lots of joy in Melbourne and Sydney. England's batting is massively left-handed. Ten of Lyon's eleven wickets so far have been left-handers. Starc should mop up runs at the WACA but I think Nathan can overtake him. I suspect all four will breach fifteen wickets (Starc and Lyon are just about there) and it's not impossible that all four could get twenty, which would be a massive achievement.

[3pm]

I'm on 3-0 and 3-1 .. I was clearly too kind on Engerland :rolleyes:

England are pish.

I said to my Dad last night they’d get bowled out. I never thought it’d be over before I woke up this morning though!

[Zazu62]

Let’s not kid ourselves on here, Ben Stokes is a massive miss for England. He’s one of their best players. Huge loss

[Mibbes Aye]

Let’s not kid ourselves on here, Ben Stokes is a massive miss for England. He’s one of their best players. Huge loss

He is a big loss.

England rely on Cook (though he's been weak so far) and Root at bat. They then require Moeen and Stokes to bat and bowl. And then they need Anderson and Broad to bowl well. Stokes can take wickets, make big runs and score hundreds.

Australia rely on Warner and Smith at bat. After that they are weak - I'm not fond of Khawaja, Bancroft is yet to prove himself and Marsh's style is likeable but a bit flimsy. The Australian bowling is too much for England though.

Australian aggression gives them the edge. Stokes would remedy that for Engand. Australia just need one, or maybe two, good lower-order players to make them superb. I would bring Renshaw in as an opener and drop Bancroft down to the middle order. Wouldn't drop Paine, Handscomb makes way.

[Mibbes Aye]

It's been overshadowed by the Ben Duckett nonsense, but some interesting cricket in Perth where the England second-string are playing a young Cricket Australia XI.

Keaton Jennings, Tom Curran, Joe Clarke and Liam Livingstone were all in the runs, which augurs well for England's batting in years to come - albeit one can't judge on one innings. Nevertheless, they are young names that have been touted for a Test place for a while - and Jennings has already got a few Tests under his belt. Of them all, I like the look of Joe Clarke most. I think he might turn out to be pretty special. He's not necessarily similar to Cook or Root as a batsman but he has the same feel about him as they did, when they were breaking into the England team.

For the Aussies, the pick of the bowlers was Gabe Bell, a Tasmanian seamer. He only got his first-class debut in the Tasmanians' last Shield game of last season but was very impressive and has kept up the performance levels this season. I wouldn't be surprised to see him push himself into the selectors' consideration for the national side, at some point.

[Mibbes Aye]

Ahead of the Third Test, Fine article by Vic Marks in The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2017/dec/09/england-australia-ashes-history-blown-away-doctor), describing what it's like to play at the WACA, particularly the weather and the pitch.

[Mibbes Aye]

It's been overshadowed by the Ben Duckett nonsense, but some interesting cricket in Perth where the England second-string are playing a young Cricket Australia XI.

Keaton Jennings, Tom Curran, Joe Clarke and Liam Livingstone were all in the runs, which augurs well for England's batting in years to come - albeit one can't judge on one innings. Nevertheless, they are young names that have been touted for a Test place for a while - and Jennings has already got a few Tests under his belt. Of them all, I like the look of Joe Clarke most. I think he might turn out to be pretty special. He's not necessarily similar to Cook or Root as a batsman but he has the same feel about him as they did, when they were breaking into the England team.

For the Aussies, the pick of the bowlers was Gabe Bell, a Tasmanian seamer. He only got his first-class debut in the Tasmanians' last Shield game of last season but was very impressive and has kept up the performance levels this season. I wouldn't be surprised to see him push himself into the selectors' consideration for the national side, at some point.

Match drawn after a couple of declarations set, which led to a fourth-innings run chase. Bell again was the pick of the Australian bowlers second time round. For England, Tom Curran was vital with the ball as they ensured the draw. Perhaps most importantly the match gave Mark Wood some overs and he managed to pick up a couple of wickets. I think Perth is too early for him but we may yet see him feature in the Fourth and Fifth Tests.

[Mibbes Aye]

Ahead of the Third Test, Fine article by Vic Marks in The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2017/dec/09/england-australia-ashes-history-blown-away-doctor), describing what it's like to play at the WACA, particularly the weather and the pitch.

Just to add to this, Geoff Lemon, who is doing the online commentary for the game tonight/this morning had this to say when linking Marks’ piece ahead of the game :greengrin

“....you can read from Vic Marks, a rare cricketer in that he’s an Englishman who won a Sheffield Shield playing for Western Australia back in the mid 1980s. A wealth of knowledge lies within his bonce, and he has the uncanny ability to make it come out of his fingers”.

Nice tribute :not worth

[Mibbes Aye]

Hazlewood’s first ball, second over, and he’s looking for a decent lbw shout.

[Mibbes Aye]

Some nice strokes already by Stoneman. Should be an interesting duel, but I suspect he should be wary.

[Mibbes Aye]

And Starc takes Cook plumb lbw with a 92mph delivery. What a beauty and what a big wicket, just as England were starting to put a few runs on the board.

Is Cook’s heart still in it? It’s the kind of ball he would have dealt with in the past, even at that speed.

James Vince in next, who I expect will get tested severely by Starc and Hazlewood. After that he can relax, he’s only got Cummins and Lyon to face.

[Mibbes Aye]

Talk about this last Waca pitch being gentler seem inaccurate :greengrin

Starc and Hazlewood look to have caused physical pain with fair deliveries, and they have back-up at both ends with Cummins and Marsh.

There’s room for boundaries when there’s a misplaced ball, but as things stand, I wouldn’t fancy being kitted up for England at this point.

[Mibbes Aye]

I’m really liking Stoneman. He’s facing some really aggressive bowling, perhaps most so from Hazlewood who on paper is the ‘least worst’ of the three main Aussie quicks.

Credit to Josh Hazlewood too, he’s good. Not just metronomic but can mix it up. Interested to see how Marsh and Cummins do, and wouldn’t be surprised if Lyon gets a bowl before lunch.

[Mibbes Aye]

England reach fifty from four byes after Starc bounces it high enough to even get past his keeper, who was standing roughly half a mile back.

Cummins in now and has gone for runs in his first couple of balls. That’s probably not going to help England strategically.......

[Mibbes Aye]

England sitting at 63-1

I was taught to evaluate a score by adding two wickets and seeing if it still felt decent. That would make them 3-63 in Aussie parlance on a wicket that settles down, with Root and Bairstow to come.

Not a bad start by England but another wicket, or more would change the equation.

[Mibbes Aye]

Now turning into a handy wee partnership between Stoneman and Vince.

Run rate is the highest it has been so far for England, whilst not crazy.

Looks like Stoneman is utilising the experience he had in grade cricket in Australia.

And as I type, Vince nicks it to Paine, off Hazlewood :greengrin

Time for Root to show up and convert those half-centuries into tons (still think he should do the right thing, Smith too, and bat at three).

[Mibbes Aye]

Lunch.

Probably a balanced wicket, in that it offered something for bowler and batsman.

If Australia are to do well, then their quicks will have to exploit a pitch that looks like it will become more bat-friendly as the day goes on

If England are to do well, then they have to play more off the front foot and capitalise on those shots against what’s been a decent Aussie field so far.

For England, Stoneman has been resolute. For Australia, Hazlewood is starting to turn into the replacement for Glenn McGrath that they really need and want (though still a way to go!)

Fascinating cricket. With the add-on that England are already 0-2 down and need to win, but the Aussies don’t won’t to lose momentum by drawing, let alone losing.

There is a lot depending on this Test. I suspect it will be shaped by an individual, might be Root, might be Hazlewood, might be Smith, might even be Broad :greengrin

Nicely balanced after the first session on day one.

[Mibbes Aye]

This is now my fifteenth consecutive post on this thread. I’m either stalking myself or I should make it a blog :greengrin

I will probably keep posting until I fall asleep. As an adult, the Ashes in Australia are about the closest it ever gets to being a child and staying up for Santa.

Except, being an adult, there are always consequences. No doubt I’ll still be here tomorrow night though!

[Mibbes Aye]

Stoneman takes a tough one that seems to beat the ball from Hazlewood, getting into the helmet between the guard and the helmet itself.

[Mibbes Aye]

Root loses his wicket very cheaply, with a simple catch down the leg side.

Australia must be feeling positive, Bairstow the only established threat yet to remain, and Cummins now bowling 90+

Cricket is a mental game, both for players and captains. Australia have established an advantage already.

[Mibbes Aye]

Hazlewood has stopped trying to be McGrath, he’s trying to be Curtly Ambrose.

And doing not bad at it :greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

Big controversy about a potential Stoneman dismissal.

It’s upheld and he’s out, Bairstow in.

Expect this to be sold as a turning point, as opposed to Australia just edging closer to a whitewash :greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

Much credit to Malan for a well-earned century. There were more than a few decent shots in there.

As for Bairstow - he should have been up the order from the start, though I believe he was/is resistant, like his captain. You can see the benefit of him getting to bat alongside specialist batsmen, rather than the tail.

Set up nicely for day 2 - I think Australia will score plenty runs on a pitch like this, as I don't think it offers much to the England attack. A lot depends on the Malan/Bairstow stand and whether the tail comes into play.

[JeMeSouviens]

Much credit to Malan for a well-earned century. There were more than a few decent shots in there.

As for Bairstow - he should have been up the order from the start, though I believe he was/is resistant, like his captain. You can see the benefit of him getting to bat alongside specialist batsmen, rather than the tail.

Set up nicely for day 2 - I think Australia will score plenty runs on a pitch like this, as I don't think it offers much to the England attack. A lot depends on the Malan/Bairstow stand and whether the tail comes into play.

Malan & Bairstow held up their end but the tail had a shocker. England should have been able to bat Aus out of the game from 368/4. With Smith well set now it's looking like advantage Aus again. England need to be into the Aussie tail by the time of the 2nd new ball to stand any chance I think

[Mibbes Aye]

Malan & Bairstow held up their end but the tail had a shocker. England should have been able to bat Aus out of the game from 368/4. With Smith well set now it's looking like advantage Aus again. England need to be into the Aussie tail by the time of the 2nd new ball to stand any chance I think

As long as I can remember, England have been prone to a collapse. It's probably no different from most sides, but it seems to happen to them with greater frequency (though maybe it's just that I watch them more often).

I thought there was some decent fielding from Australia to mop things up. A couple of catches were outstanding.

As for Smith, he really is a joy to watch.

[Mibbes Aye]

Incredible play from Australia on day three and painful, painful stuff if you're an England fan (or player).

If there's no swing, then England must feel they're already beaten, as soon as Smith walks on the pitch. Even when there is swing, they still aren't quite able to match up to Australia.

While the day's play added another layer of cement to Smith's status as the best batsman in the world, lots of praise has to be reserved for Mitchell Marsh.

When he came into bat, his Test average was in the low twenties I think. Without doing the math, I think it's fair to say that has increased somewhat now.......

First session tomorrow should be fun. I'm expecting Australia to go for broke, chasing runs to build up as big a total as quickly as possible. Depending on how that pans out, there will be a declaration at some point - latter phase of the afternoon session, or perhaps earlier? That gives Australia four and a bit sessions to take ten wickets and if necessary, overtake any England second innings lead to win the Ashes.

Big thing for me from day three was the emergence of those cracks on the pitch. England, with the partial exception of Overton, aren't quite fast enough to exploit them. Hazlewood, Starc and especially Cummins are, plus there's the additional pace of Mitchell Marsh. Australia will be able to work quicks at both ends and rest them by bringing in quicks at both ends - no respite for the England batsmen whatsoever.

[Mibbes Aye]

Second ball in and Anderson snares Marsh lbw. Australia review and it's just, just, just an umpire's call for clipping the top of the stumps - the original decision was out however, so there he goes.

Just what England needed and wanted at the start. Will this invigorate England or will Paine and the tail have a blast?

[Mibbes Aye]

And then Smith knocks his first boundary, easily clipped to the legside - normal business resumed?

[Mibbes Aye]

England use their last review spectacularly and get Smith, out for 239. Two wickets now for Anderson, which will boost his confidence.

As it stands, Australia are ahead by 157. Question is whether their tail can wag.

It's certainly as good a start as England could hope for.

[Mibbes Aye]

Was about to type that in terms of managing the match, it's still with Australia IMO. The tail, Cummins especially, can add a few runs.

Then Starc and Paine contrive a reaction to an England shout that ends up with Starc being run out - you couldn't make it up!

Although it will make for an angry Starc when he has the ball in his hand.......

England must be feeling good, but Australia will fancy the bowling, especially if they can get a margin of 200 or so to play with.

[Mibbes Aye]

Cummins off the mark with a good shot that Stoneman just saves from being a boundary. Anderson looking more confident now but a poor delivery allows Paine to score four off the backfoot on the off-side. Interesting battle emerging.

[Mibbes Aye]

England use up a review on Paine - he was too far out of his crease for it to ever hit wicket, but perhaps the most important point is the opportunity arose from Anderson hitting a crack.

The Aussie quicks will be loving the look of that pitch. It may qualify as unnecessarily gratuitous violence when they do get a shot on it though.

As it stands, Cummins is on 3, but his average so far against England is a nice, round 50. He's quickly become my favourite Aussie player of the series, partly for his ferociously fast bowling, but also for his efforts in maintaining that fine tradition of mustachioed Australian quicks turning out to be decent batsmen who can add a bit onto the final score.

For England, I'd probably give it to Bairstow. You can see how much it means to him and most sides would be glad to have a talent like that. He needs to be batting higher up the order though, even if that means passing on the gloves.

[Mibbes Aye]

Particular attention for me on Broad, he tends to show his frustration more than most.

His last over was heading towards a maiden before Paine clipped the last one on the offside for a boundary.

Broad's now in excess of 110 without a wicket and his patience may be the better of him.

[Mibbes Aye]

Particular attention for me on Broad, he tends to show his frustration more than most.

His last over was heading towards a maiden before Paine clipped the last one on the offside for a boundary.

Broad's now in excess of 110 without a wicket and his patience may be the better of him.

And he goes for eight of his next over. Australia a couple short of 600 and five of a 200-run lead.

[Mibbes Aye]

Good over for Australia.

They reach 600 and take a 200+lead.

Cummins batting beautifully as well. At some point Australia will be done under the Trade Descriptions Act for playing him at number nine.

Declaration might be quicker than I originally thought.

[Mibbes Aye]

Classic shorter ball from Overton to Cummins.

Cummins went for it and played it high, not quite a hook, and it could have been caught squareish leg, but it landed in lots of space.

His next two shots were both on the offside, one fine and one to the covers, both aggressive shots designed to produce runs.

I really like Cummins, I think England have met someone who will torment them for several series to come.

[Mibbes Aye]

Classic shorter ball from Overton to Cummins.

Cummins went for it and played it high, not quite a hook, and it could have been caught squareish leg, but it landed in lots of space.

His next two shots were both on the offside, one fine and one to the covers, both aggressive shots designed to produce runs.

I really like Cummins, I think England have met someone who will torment them for several series to come.

In saying all that, credit to Craig Overton.

He wasn't anywhere close to first pick at the start of the series, he's playing with a cracked rib and he's still probably been the pick of the England attack so far.

[marinello59]

Another poor display from England’s openers. Looks like game over already.

[Mibbes Aye]

Another poor display from England’s openers. Looks like game over already.

:agree:

Cook will only add to the speculation that he's lost interest after another failed innings, though Hazlewood deserves credit for a great catch from his own bowling.

Starc's delivery to take Vince's wicket was a beauty, more so because Vince was the only batsman who was looking like a threat. With that sort of surface to bowl on, Australia should make short order of the remaining English batsmen - all assuming that the Perth weather stays fair enough to give them time.

If it does, that's the Ashes won as quickly as they could have been, and Australia are set for 5-0. If not, it gives England hope but one would expect the Australians to wrap it up at the MCG in the Boxing Day Test.

[theonlywayisup]

England 211-9

Only one more wicket left for Aussies to win the Ashes.

[--------]

Well, that was nice. What am I supposed to do with the rest of my morning?

Watch the 'highlights' at 1130, I guess.

I hope Stokes is pleased with himself. :rolleyes:

[Stonewall]

[QUOTE=Doddie;5251195]Well, that was nice. What am I supposed to do with the rest of my morning?

Watch the 'highlights' at 1130, I guess.

I hope Stokes is pleased with himself. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE

Well the Aussies would have thought twice about winding him up. He should have gone on the tour.

[--------]

[QUOTE=Doddie;5251195]Well, that was nice. What am I supposed to do with the rest of my morning?

Watch the 'highlights' at 1130, I guess.

I hope Stokes is pleased with himself. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE

Well the Aussies would have thought twice about winding him up. He should have gone on the tour.


The England vice-captain shouldn't be getting into a drunken brawl a few weeks before an Ashes tour. He shouldn't be in a drunken brawl full-stop. That opened the door for the Australian media to portray the England squad as a beer-swilling, unruly bunch of 'lads'; Bairstow's head-butt and the Anderson incident didn't help, but the damage was done before the team got on the plane at Heathrow.

England teams are on a hiding to nothing in Australia; Australian sports fans are masters of the double standard. If the squad had had a strict code of conduct laid down before arrival, that would have been big news - "Pommie Beer-Bongs Under Curfew" stories. If they try to relax and be themselves, something silly hits the headlines and "beer-swilling hooligan" stories hit the papers - Bairstow's head-butt and Anderson's hair-wash. They'd have laid into Stokes big-time, and anything he said or did in response would have been twisted into additional evidence of his criminal character - he would just have been stoking (sorry!) the media frenzy.

When we think about it, none of this is in any way unusual behaviour in Australia. Australians do this sort of thing all the time - it's expected of an Aussie 'good bloke' that he can put away the lager and indulge in high jinks - the SCG Hill may have gone, but the knuckle-draggers are still around and vocal. While Australia's winning, they'll be happy and reasonably quiet. But if England find a performance on Boxing Day - and I so hope they do, Christmas miracle needed or not - they'll be out in full force demonstrating the 'sportsmanship and good humour' that's characterised Australian sporting attitudes since Australian sport began.

1971 - a short-pitched delivery from John Snow unexpectedly keeps low on an uneven wicket, and Terry Jenner ducks into it and gets hit on the head. End of over, Snow goes down to the boundary to field, and gets pelted with obscenities, beer-cans, and bottles. The papers next day reported this as honest Aussie blokes outraged at an unwarranted and deliberate attack by Snow on Jenner. One accidental delivery.

Skip forward a few years, and Ian Chappell has Thomson and Lillee genuinely bowling to injure opposing batsmen, and the honest Aussie blokes on the Hill join in, chanting "Kill, kill, kill ..." as the bowlers run in. Any complaints just prove that Poms (or Kiwis or Indians or Pakis or whoever) are wimps. Not real men.

There are so many things Australian cricketers can do to their opponents that are outright cheating when the opponents do them to Australians. The only way to win in Australia is to be stronger than them, better than them, and totally focussed on grinding out the win. And as thick-skinned as a rhinoceros.

Right now this England party are really popular in Oz - they've done what they were supposed to do and succumbed tamely in three Tests to surrender the Ashes. But if they were to show some consistent fight in the last 2 Tests, that'll change.

I think England just need to write this series off, and start proper preparations for the return series in England now.

And a final thought - one which I'm sure many have thought but no one has really spoken out loud -

HOW EXACTLY DID THAT WATER GET UNDER THE COVERS AND ONTO THE PITCH WHERE IT DID, IN SUCH A GOOD PLACE FOR THE BOWLERS AND SUCH A BAD PLACE FOR THE BATSMEN?

[Mibbes Aye]

With the Boxing Day Test imminent, the talk seems to be that Tom Curran will replace the injured Carig Overton for England. Curran played well with bat and ball in the two-dayer against a Cricket Australia XI, and at 22 can definitely be considered a young talent.

For Australia, there's still doubt about whether Starc will be fit. I'm sure he's desperate to play but if not, it looks like Jackson Bird, the Tasmanian seamer, will take his place. Bird has very respectable figures in Test and first-class cricket and will no doubt relish the opportunity.

Tim Paine may also miss the game due to family reasons - that would suggest either Handscomb coming back in, or Bancroft dropping down the order to keep wicket, necessitating the Aussies bringing in a new opener.

[--------]

With the Boxing Day Test imminent, the talk seems to be that Tom Curran will replace the injured Carig Overton for England. Curran played well with bat and ball in the two-dayer against a Cricket Australia XI, and at 22 can definitely be considered a young talent.

For Australia, there's still doubt about whether Starc will be fit. I'm sure he's desperate to play but if not, it looks like Jackson Bird, the Tasmanian seamer, will take his place. Bird has very respectable figures in Test and first-class cricket and will no doubt relish the opportunity.

Tim Paine may also miss the game due to family reasons - that would suggest either Handscomb coming back in, or Bancroft dropping down the order to keep wicket, necessitating the Aussies bringing in a new opener.


Well, we'll see if Jimmy Anderson was right about the Aussies being thin on reserves ....

I do feel that if England clicked all together and at once, they're perfectly capable of doing something here, but I have a horrid feeling that a whitewash's on the way.

PS - Starc's out, Paine seems very doubtful.

[Mibbes Aye]

Well, we'll see if Jimmy Anderson was right about the Aussies being thin on reserves ....

I do feel that if England clicked all together and at once, they're perfectly capable of doing something here, but I have a horrid feeling that a whitewash's on the way.

PS - Starc's out, Paine seems very doubtful.

This was England’s best chance of an away Ashes series win in a long time I suspect. Two big batters with experience and two of the best bowlers their country has produced, albeit happier on an English greentop than a baked Antipodean surface. Plus Bairstow and Moeen who offer a deep tail. They’ve got themselves into the top three in the world rankings over the last few years and there’s good reason for that. And this is very much an Australian side in transition - only really two batsmen who had nailed-down places and the pace attack had never played together before.......

Next time England visit Australia they won’t have Cook, Anderson and likely Broad. That’s three genuinely world-class players needing replaced, or two plus Broad.

There are some gifted youngsters to come, it looks like Curran will get his chance tomorrow, and the likes of Joe Clarke and Liam Livingstone are very talented, but there isn’t really any threat of pace, which you need to win in Australia.

[hibby6270]

Aarrgghh!! See the weather in Melbourne this year is perfect. 27 C degrees and cloudless skies.
I was there 11 years ago. Coldest Xmas ever in Melbourne. We had to buy jumpers to keep us warm!! Plus late start due to rain.
Certainly not that today.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[lord bunberry]

What is becoming somewhat disappointing about test match cricket is the fact that groundsman seems to produce a pitch that favours the home side. I’m old enough to remember when a pitch was prepared to be the best that the groundsman could manage. It was a matter of pride. Does anyone think This ashes series would have gone the same way if it was in England? I know there’s more factors in play than the pitch, but it’s becoming a big factor in the modern game.

[Mibbes Aye]

What is becoming somewhat disappointing about test match cricket is the fact that groundsman seems to produce a pitch that favours the home side. I’m old enough to remember when a pitch was prepared to be the best that the groundsman could manage. It was a matter of pride. Does anyone think This ashes series would have gone the same way if it was in England? I know there’s more factors in play than the pitch, but it’s becoming a big factor in the modern game.

I think you do see pitches that are 'prepared' but I can think of Tests where that's backfired as well.

There's also a lot to be said for the natural process of developing as a player on your home nation's wickets. Part of the reason England struggle in Australia is that their bowlers learn their craft on greener, moister surfaces. Australian quicks are used to a harder, truer surface and their style of delivery reflects that.

Two of the great rivalries for me were Australia vs the Windies from the mid-Eighties through to the mid-Nineties, and Australia vs South Africa through the Nineties. They were intensely competitive battles and I don't think it's a coincidence that those three sides played on broadly similar surfaces.

Conversely, England benefit when Australia visit. When Australia did dominate on English soil, it was during that run of having huge strength in depth amongst the batting - Border, Taylor, Boon, the Waughs, Slater, Hayden, Langer, Healy, Gilchrist - as well as simply one of the greatest bowlers of all time, in Shane Warne, plus one of the other all-time greats in McGrath, who was un-Australian in that English pitches suited him.

[hibby6270]

What is becoming somewhat disappointing about test match cricket is the fact that groundsman seems to produce a pitch that favours the home side. I’m old enough to remember when a pitch was prepared to be the best that the groundsman could manage. It was a matter of pride. Does anyone think This ashes series would have gone the same way if it was in England? I know there’s more factors in play than the pitch, but it’s becoming a big factor in the modern game.

Another thing as well is that the pitch for the MCG game is a ‘drop in’ pitch apparently. I wasn't aware they did this for test matches. That must mean the pitch is ‘manufactured’ and takes away the natural effect of preparing a pitch on the overall square. Must make a difference.

Thought it was only one day matches they used them. Pretty sure it’s not standard practice in England. Is it done anywhere else?

[Mibbes Aye]

Interesting first day's play at the MCG.

Broad and Anderson actually performed okay and Curran didn't do badly on debut, though must be kicking himself for the no-ball to Warner on 99. Moeen's tour continues to be a trial for him though.

Warner will be glad to get back in the runs and I wonder whether he will push on and pile up runs when they get to the SCG. Smith is just ridiculously good at the moment. Bancroft will have learned a lot from his innings, good for his longer-term development.

Australia edged the day for me but it's reasonably well-poised. Growing up, England were usually good for a win once Australia had clinched the series and they're still in contention in this match. A lot depends on the first two sessions - Smith obviously, but the Marsh boys and Cummins have a lot of runs in them.

[Mibbes Aye]

Another thing as well is that the pitch for the MCG game is a ‘drop in’ pitch apparently. I wasn't aware they did this for test matches. That must mean the pitch is ‘manufactured’ and takes away the natural effect of preparing a pitch on the overall square. Must make a difference.

Thought it was only one day matches they used them. Pretty sure it’s not standard practice in England. Is it done anywhere else?

My understanding was they are pretty common in Australia and New Zealand, where grounds are used for different sports - the MCG hosts a lot of Aussie Rules football, but has also hosted rugby union, rugby league and soccer. Similarly, Eden Park in Auckland is the home ground for the Auckland Blues and regularly hosts the All Blacks, but has also done rugby league and soccer.

It's different from the subcontinent, where cricket stadiums exist in their own right as stand-alone venues. It's part cultural, part seasonal - in Australia, essentially the summer is all about cricket, but in their winter it could be either rugby code, Aussie Rules, or soccer depending on things like geography and ethnicity. The stadia therefore tend to be dual or multi-purpose.

[lord bunberry]

Interesting first day's play at the MCG.

Broad and Anderson actually performed okay and Curran didn't do badly on debut, though must be kicking himself for the no-ball to Warner on 99. Moeen's tour continues to be a trial for him though.

Warner will be glad to get back in the runs and I wonder whether he will push on and pile up runs when they get to the SCG. Smith is just ridiculously good at the moment. Bancroft will have learned a lot from his innings, good for his longer-term development.

Australia edged the day for me but it's reasonably well-poised. Growing up, England were usually good for a win once Australia had clinched the series and they're still in contention in this match. A lot depends on the first two sessions - Smith obviously, but the Marsh boys and Cummins have a lot of runs in them.
I think it will go the same way as the previous three tests. England just don’t have enough depth in their batting. Stokes has been a huge loss.

[Mibbes Aye]

I thought Shaun Marsh and Tim Paine both had decent, if somewhat different knocks. Both have amply justified their recalls for the series.

That was some collapse from 5 down though. What's most frustrating for Darren Lehmann is that players were consistently going as a consequence of really poor decision-making. The pitch at the MCG has got absolutely no life in it but the Aussies were trying to play cut shots over and over, and just dragging the ball onto their stumps.

At last some redemption for the England old guard, albeit too late to change the outcome of the series. Broad and Anderson bowled exceptionally and Cook finally found some form. I read that he is only the second overseas batsman to score a ton at the five main venues in Australia, following in the footsteps of the fantastic talent that was Sunil Gavaskar - that's some achievement. He played the right way for the pitch but one suspects he wasn't too unhappy about not facing Starc or a fully-fit Cummins.

[Mibbes Aye]

Well, that was to be expected! When Cook does make a century he tends to then go big to a greater extent than most batsmen and day 3 at the MCG was no different.

By stumps he managed to overtake Brian Lara to go into 6th place in the all-time rankings for Test runs in a career, which illustrates just how successful he has been over the past eleven or twelve years. Admittedly he's had forty more innings than Lara and it's noticeable that Cook is one of only two in the all-time top ten who doesn't average more than fifty - nor is he likely to, he has been pretty much firmly stuck in the mid-forties his entire career. Nevertheless it's a tremendous achievement and testament to a hugely successful and very resilient career with the bat.

As for the others, Root's frustration at not converting a 50 to a 100 yet again, was evident in his behavior when he was dismissed. The commentators, Damian Fleming on BT in particular, took great delight at replaying him trying to throw his gloves down as he crossed the boundary, only for him to miss the rope and have to pick them up again to remove them from the field.

Very poor game management for the Malan dismissal too. If the Australian batsmen were guilty in their first innings of cutting and playing onto their stumps, the English have been guilty of not actually knowing that they had made contact with the bat. Vince and Malan's dismissals could both have been overturned had they reviewed the original decision.

Stuart Broad deserves credit - exemplary with the ball and a very valuable knock and partnership with Cook.

In amongst what was a very successful day for England, Nathan Lyon shouldn't be overlooked however. An outstanding 63 wickets in the calendar year at an average of 23.55 puts him top of the list for 2017. Snagging Moeen for the sixth time in the series also shows his ability to find and exploit a 'bunny' in the opposition ranks. It also highlights how miserable a time Moeen is having - for me, he's a batsman first, a bowler second, but in the series he's averaging less than twenty with the bat and the bowling's been worse, if anything, gathering three wickets at an average well in excess of one hundred. It's night and day compared with his form in the summer where he was batting in the thirties and took 30 wickets at an average in the low twenties. Of course in the summer he was on home soil, playing against sides who aren't in the top echelon in world cricket at the moment.

It does raise questions about how England should line up post-Ashes. For me, Root and Bairstow should both move up the order, to three and five respectively, even though they don't want to, with Malan moving up to four (although I might be tempted by pushing Bairstow up there). You then have the option of giving someone else the gloves (Ben Foakes being the prime candidate) and/or blooding some of the younger talent safely down the order - the likes of Livingstone or Clarke. Vince drops out, he's demonstrated he can play a great cover drive on an Australian pitch but little else.

That allows Moeen to drop down to eight or nine - both Woakes and Curran are relatively handy with the bat on English soil - taking some of the pressure off him but also recreating what England have notable had in the last couple of years, namely a very deep batting order. Hopefully Moeen finds his form again, as England need at least one reliable spinner to go to.

[--------]

Well, that was to be expected! When Cook does make a century he tends to then go big to a greater extent than most batsmen and day 3 at the MCG was no different.

By stumps he managed to overtake Brian Lara to go into 6th place in the all-time rankings for Test runs in a career, which illustrates just how successful he has been over the past eleven or twelve years. Admittedly he's had forty more innings than Lara and it's noticeable that Cook is one of only two in the all-time top ten who doesn't average more than fifty - nor is he likely to, he has been pretty much firmly stuck in the mid-forties his entire career. Nevertheless it's a tremendous achievement and testament to a hugely successful and very resilient career with the bat.

As for the others, Root's frustration at not converting a 50 to a 100 yet again, was evident in his behavior when he was dismissed. The commentators, Damian Fleming on BT in particular, took great delight at replaying him trying to throw his gloves down as he crossed the boundary, only for him to miss the rope and have to pick them up again to remove them from the field.

Very poor game management for the Malan dismissal too. If the Australian batsmen were guilty in their first innings of cutting and playing onto their stumps, the English have been guilty of not actually knowing that they had made contact with the bat. Vince and Malan's dismissals could both have been overturned had they reviewed the original decision.

Stuart Broad deserves credit - exemplary with the ball and a very valuable knock and partnership with Cook.

In amongst what was a very successful day for England, Nathan Lyon shouldn't be overlooked however. An outstanding 63 wickets in the calendar year at an average of 23.55 puts him top of the list for 2017. Snagging Moeen for the sixth time in the series also shows his ability to find and exploit a 'bunny' in the opposition ranks. It also highlights how miserable a time Moeen is having - for me, he's a batsman first, a bowler second, but in the series he's averaging less than twenty with the bat and the bowling's been worse, if anything, gathering three wickets at an average well in excess of one hundred. It's night and day compared with his form in the summer where he was batting in the thirties and took 30 wickets at an average in the low twenties. Of course in the summer he was on home soil, playing against sides who aren't in the top echelon in world cricket at the moment.

It does raise questions about how England should line up post-Ashes. For me, Root and Bairstow should both move up the order, to three and five respectively, even though they don't want to, with Malan moving up to four (although I might be tempted by pushing Bairstow up there). You then have the option of giving someone else the gloves (Ben Foakes being the prime candidate) and/or blooding some of the younger talent safely down the order - the likes of Livingstone or Clarke. Vince drops out, he's demonstrated he can play a great cover drive on an Australian pitch but little else.

That allows Moeen to drop down to eight or nine - both Woakes and Curran are relatively handy with the bat on English soil - taking some of the pressure off him but also recreating what England have notable had in the last couple of years, namely a very deep batting order. Hopefully Moeen finds his form again, as England need at least one reliable spinner to go to.


Excellent summary of the situation. Agree totally about the batting - Cook, Stoneman, Root, Malan, Bairstow makes complete sense. Vince isn't good enough. There are others who deserve a chance.

Woakes, Curran, Broad and Anderson will do well in England (didn't do so badly yesterday, come to that). Broad and Anderson have a couple of years yet, I think, but England do need to be looking for their successors now.

Hopefully Stokes will be available sometime soon, unless the worst happens and he goes to jail. This seems a distinct possibility. Idiot. (Stokes, not you.)

If Stokes is available, I'd leave Bairstow with the gloves. Foakes is also a distinct possibility if he's not; then Bairstow would be a dedicated batsman (and vice-captain?).

They need to look at Moeen's position. He has obvious weaknesses which he needs to address; he also has real strengths which can make him a real asset to the team. He's also a team player, which is be important, but not to the detriment of the bowling. Frankly, I do wonder whether he'll ever really be a 'reliable' spinner - or batsman. He seems to need a 'guru' to guide him? Someone he really relates to?

Cook, Stoneman, Root, Malan, Bairstow, Stokes, Moeen/Foakes, Curran, Woakes, Broad and Anderson looks OK to me.

But they DO need to stop the off-field silly buggers. They they need to learn to behave like international sportsmen and professionals. It's a scandal that Stokes wasn't on this tour, and it was his own stupid fault.

And how do two guys get out lbw when they've both got bat to ball? Are they wearing oven gloves? They were saying that Cook should have taken more notice, but he's had his own troubles and as far as I could see (not a lip-reader, but ...) he asked them both whether they had got an edge and they both said no. It's a test match - you don't walk until you abso-bloody-lutely have to.

Oh, and well done, Alistair Cook - terrific innings and thoroughly deserved.

[Mibbes Aye]

Excellent summary of the situation. Agree totally about the batting - Cook, Stoneman, Root, Malan, Bairstow makes complete sense. Vince isn't good enough. There are others who deserve a chance.

Woakes, Curran, Broad and Anderson will do well in England (didn't do so badly yesterday, come to that). Broad and Anderson have a couple of years yet, I think, but England do need to be looking for their successors now.

Hopefully Stokes will be available sometime soon, unless the worst happens and he goes to jail. This seems a distinct possibility. Idiot. (Stokes, not you.)

If Stokes is available, I'd leave Bairstow with the gloves. Foakes is also a distinct possibility if he's not; then Bairstow would be a dedicated batsman (and vice-captain?).

They need to look at Moeen's position. He has obvious weaknesses which he needs to address; he also has real strengths which can make him a real asset to the team. He's also a team player, which is be important, but not to the detriment of the bowling. Frankly, I do wonder whether he'll ever really be a 'reliable' spinner - or batsman. He seems to need a 'guru' to guide him? Someone he really relates to?

Cook, Stoneman, Root, Malan, Bairstow, Stokes, Moeen/Foakes, Curran, Woakes, Broad and Anderson looks OK to me.

But they DO need to stop the off-field silly buggers. They they need to learn to behave like international sportsmen and professionals. It's a scandal that Stokes wasn't on this tour, and it was his own stupid fault.

And how do two guys get out lbw when they've both got bat to ball? Are they wearing oven gloves? They were saying that Cook should have taken more notice, but he's had his own troubles and as far as I could see (not a lip-reader, but ...) he asked them both whether they had got an edge and they both said no. It's a test match - you don't walk until you abso-bloody-lutely have to.

Oh, and well done, Alistair Cook - terrific innings and thoroughly deserved.

:greengrin

I think that's spot-on about Moeen, he adds a lot as a team player (and he's a decent fielder) but his individual performance levels have slipped away. When he's on form, as per the summer, he's contributing in all three areas. Fascinating next summer, with the Indians visiting England. Their batsmen can play spin but the conditions are a little bit different from Eden Gardens. As an aside, 2018 into the start of 2019 is looking fantastic, with India playing three tests in South Africa, five in England and four in Australia. I think in thirteen months time we will know a lot about who the best teams and players actually are.

The line-up you've suggested does look good but you're right about succession planning. Stoneman has been solid at county level but when Cook does retire then is he really the senior opener, with a newbie alongside him? Similarly Anderson can't have much more left in the tank and Broad, I suspect, won't be able to last as long as Jimmy has. That's the two opening bowlers gone, and if they can make it to the next Ashes it will almost certainly be the swansong.

I really like Woakes but he's not in the same league, and neither are Finn, Wood, or Ball. The youngsters who have yet to debut are by definition unproven.

As you've said, so much depends on the outcome of the Stokes case. I was taught that a genuine all-rounder is someone who would be picked as a batsman in their own right and as a bowler in their own right. In current parlance that probably means batting in the forties and bowling in the twenties, but even Garry Sobers couldn't manage that, though he wasn't far off.

The other criteria for a genuine great all-rounder is reaching 3000 runs and 300 wickets, which only eight players have achieved in the history of Test cricket. Sobers wasn't one of them though his economy rate was to die for. Of the eight who managed it, Imran Khan looks the best, highest average with the bat, one of the best bowling averages and a great economy rate although honourable mentions to Kapil Dev too, and in fairness the other six were all-time greats who could swing matches with ease for their country.

If Stokes returns I think he will reach 3000 runs with ease. If he can stay injury-free and keep form then 300 wickets wouldn't be beyond him either.

Getting back to tonight's play, the obvious question is how long Jimmy Anderson can last :greengrin. After that it's poised - if you wanted anyone to kickstart an innings then it's David Warner, certainly since Adam Gilchrist retired. The pitch hasn't deteriorated too badly either. A very aggressive Australian innings sets things up for a late declaration, leaving either win or a draw as still being conceivable. For England, Anderson and Broad will be revitalised and maybe, just maybe, Moeen can find a spark. Surely Australia won't lose as many wickets to poorly-executed shots in their second innings. We shall see.

[Mibbes Aye]

Reflecting on that last post, two things.

Unlike many other records, those achieving 3000 runs and 300 wickets hasn't been something that has increased rapidly in the last couple of decades. It suggests it is pretty true and isn't affected by the general increase in the frequency of Tests over the last twenty or thirty years. There's certainly an increase from the 1950-60s and before, but when you look at those eight players, they are spread out over a fair while and also spread across most nations - Windies absent though.

The other point was about what makes for a good all-rounder in the modern game. Batting in the forties and bowling in the twenties is asking far too much, and I think it's reasonable to be classed as a good all-rounder if you can bat in the mid-thirties or higher and bowl in the low-thirties or lower.

[Mibbes Aye]

Nice morning's cricket so far.

England obviously laying off using Anderson and Broad in the hope that they'll get reverse swing in a while. Quite right too.

Big game for Bancroft, he has the chance here and at Sydney to cement his place alongside Warner.

England getting into bother for deliberately scuffing one side of the ball.

Got to love Test cricket.

[Mibbes Aye]

Woakes has been looking well and been rewarded with a fine wicket, sending Bancroft's stumps all ways.

Khawaja in now, he's not had the best of series and never really convinced in the Test side.

Saying that, if Australia drop a wicket they're only bringing Steve Smith to the crease :greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

And Khawaja can't decide on a shot and goes weakly to Anderson.

Australia are in a better place than a year ago but still have to sort out a few batting places. Bancroft is worth a bit longer as an opener IMO but Smith has to move to three and then they need to decide on a plan for the middle order. Khawaja isn't good enough to drop down, Shaun Marsh won't be there in five years time and Mitch Marsh isn't really good enough either.

I still fancy Australia for a 4-1 or 4-0 and still wouldn't rule out the 5-0, though that could change in the next hour :greengrin

Regardless, Australia have a bowling unit that should see them right over the next few years. They only have two nailed-down batsmen in Warner and Smith however, and need to address that, plus decide whether they want a really strong keeper, or a decent keeper who scores runs (at the moment and for the first time in a while, they don't have someone who does both - Paine has been decent this series but I'm not sure how convincing he would play, keeping on an English greentop or a humid Indian strip).

[--------]

I see that Collingwood is quoted this morning as saying that Moeen was batting 'with a muddled mind' yesterday.

This confusion is presumably affecting his bowling.

Surely if Moeen is a valued member of the team - and at his best he's a very good player indeed - someone should be taking him under their wing and making sure he goes out knowing exactly what's expected of him. At his best he's a very effective spinner, a talented and productive batsman, a good fielder, and the sort of guy who contributes greatly to team spirit - in other words, more than worth his place in the team.

There was one series where he was working with a dedicated bowling coach - cannae remember who - getting auld - but the effect on his bowling was spectacular. Someone needs to work with him - this is no criticism, btw, I remember Brearley doing something similar for Beefy years back when Beefy had got to the point where he didn't know which end of the bat to hold - because a fully functioning Moeen's potentially good for 3 wickets and 40 runs any innings anywhere. We've seen him bowl as well as Lyons often.

No surprise the Australian press have accused JA of tampering with the ball. Total utter bollocks, of course, but it's a slow news day and their boys are under the hammer for once. They wanted a whitewash. They're not getting a whitewash, and now they're in a pet about it. There's a word for them, but I can't use it on a family forum.

Have you come across a book called 'The Bodyline Hypocrisy: Conversations with Harold Larwood' by Michael Arnold? Great wee book that puts the magnifier on THAT series - loads of interesting stuff on the Aussie press, the Aussie crowd, the Aussie players, the Slimy Snake Gubby Allan, and of course, Douglas Jardine and Harold Larwood themselves. I recommend it.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=The+Bodyline+Hypocrisy

(Just because it's the story everyone believes doesn't mean it's the truth. :wink:)

[Mibbes Aye]

I see that Collingwood is quoted this morning as saying that Moeen was batting 'with a muddled mind' yesterday.

This confusion is presumably affecting his bowling.

Surely if Moeen is a valued member of the team - and at his best he's a very good player indeed - someone should be taking him under their wing and making sure he goes out knowing exactly what's expected of him. At his best he's a very effective spinner, a talented and productive batsman, a good fielder, and the sort of guy who contributes greatly to team spirit - in other words, more than worth his place in the team.

There was one series where he was working with a dedicated bowling coach - cannae remember who - getting auld - but the effect on his bowling was spectacular. Someone needs to work with him - this is no criticism, btw, I remember Brearley doing something similar for Beefy years back when Beefy had got to the point where he didn't know which end of the bat to hold - because a fully functioning Moeen's potentially good for 3 wickets and 40 runs any innings anywhere. We've seen him bowl as well as Lyons often.

No surprise the Australian press have accused JA of tampering with the ball. Total utter bollocks, of course, but it's a slow news day and their boys are under the hammer for once. They wanted a whitewash. They're not getting a whitewash, and now they're in a pet about it. There's a word for them, but I can't use it on a family forum.

Have you come across a book called 'The Bodyline Hypocrisy: Conversations with Harold Larwood' by Michael Arnold? Great wee book that puts the magnifier on THAT series - loads of interesting stuff on the Aussie press, the Aussie crowd, the Aussie players, the Slimy Snake Gubby Allan, and of course, Douglas Jardine and Harold Larwood themselves. I recommend it.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=The+Bodyline+Hypocrisy

(Just because it's the story everyone believes doesn't mean it's the truth. :wink:)

Thanks for posting the link, I've ordered it.

Interesting fourth day's play, after Smith came in. Obviously a lot of play lost to rain but it was at times a fascinating duel between Anderson especially, and Warner and Smith. Warner clearly was playing within himself, a mature approach that reflects well on his capacity to adapt his game to the circumstances of the match and indeed the series.

Curran has shown up well too. Looks like that's one of England's next generation sorted.

[Mibbes Aye]

And Root takes Warner. Game on. It was a very patient innings by Warner, I’d be surprised if he had scored that many runs at such a slow rate ever!

Responsibility on Smith now to see it out for a draw I guess.

[Mibbes Aye]

And Smith does the job, what else was going to happen?

While there has been a lot of focus, rightly so, on Cook’s stats following his unbeaten 244, it’s worth acknowledging Smith’s achievements too.

Even if he is dismissed for a duck in both innings in Sydney, he will still average over 100 in the series. That’s simply outstanding and demonstrates why he is rightly seen as not just one of the top four batsmen in the world, but the pick of the bunch.

In other news, it looks like Moeen is facing the drop for the SCG. One would imagine Crane comes in. I’m not sure what the state of Overton’s injury is - if fit he probably deserves his place back, though it would be unfair if Curran was dropped, meaning Woakes probably loses out.

[--------]

Thanks for posting the link, I've ordered it.

Interesting fourth day's play, after Smith came in. Obviously a lot of play lost to rain but it was at times a fascinating duel between Anderson especially, and Warner and Smith. Warner clearly was playing within himself, a mature approach that reflects well on his capacity to adapt his game to the circumstances of the match and indeed the series.

Curran has shown up well too. Looks like that's one of England's next generation sorted.


I like Curran - I've seen him a few times in T20 during the summer; he's got a big heart and while he isn't a genuine fast bowler he uses his head and mixes it up very nicely. His younger brother Sam's a useful player as well - only 19 so he has time to develop yet.

The groundsman responsible for that wicket should get his jotters. It gave neither side any chance of winning.


I think you'll enjoy the book.

[Mibbes Aye]

In the run-up to the Sydney Test, I was reading a piece about Cameron Bancroft, referencing just how much of a step-up it is from Sheffield Shield to Test level. They had a fascinating quote from Ed Cowan, a former Australian opener who featured for a couple of years at the start of the decade. He talks about his debut series against India:



"...It is this ongoing battle that makes Test cricket like no other examination - certainly drawn far enough out that the state of its participants' minds and bodies must be exposed. Each game of the series is played on a different surface, with its individual character testing the technique and temperament of bat and ball.

"This variety provided the greatest thrill - knowing individual players held the cards of advantage in certain conditions, but seeing them have to simply make do in others. I knew Zaheer [Khan], with all his skill of wrist, would attempt to get me out lbw on the slower wickets of Sydney and Adelaide, having dragged me across my stumps before unleashing a wicked inswinger. I would be looking for any width. I knew in Perth that his natural late outswing into the wind would force him to try to take the outside edge. He knew I would be sweating on him getting too straight. Let the staring match begin, mano- -mano.

"Strangely, this intimate contest and laying bare of character took place between two people who have never spoken a word - probably never will - knew nothing about each other barring relative cricket prowess and not once recognised that the other may have succeeded. It was for others to decide the winner. A lengthy timescale in such psychological battles also allows for the pronouncement of "bunnies". I now understand how the disintegration of Daryl Cullinan by Shane Warne took place. There was simply nowhere to hide."



I thought he wrote articulately and intelligently, which led me to this article (http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/567495.html), penned by him a few years ago, about the challenges in playing Test cricket overseas. Again I was highly impressed.

He apparently wrote a diary during one of his seasons with Tasmania, which I can see myself purchasing. The reviews seem to suggest it offers more than just an account of the matches, but some real insights into the game - I suspect it may be in a similar vein to Garry Nelson's classic "Left Foot Forward: A Year in the Life of a Journeyman Footballer".

[Mibbes Aye]

Game on (soonish). Root has chosen to bat, so a lot depends on how the Aussie bowlers go in the first session and a half, given the weather is expected to settle down.

Big game for the bowlers - Mason Crane making his debut, Tom Curran getting a second game on a different wicket, and Mitchell Starc coming back from injury. England have yet to take twenty wickets in a game, could this be the match?

Big game for the batsmen - James Vince fighting for his place, Stoneman probably safe for the NZ tour but can't be sure, and there's no shortage of England youngsters pressing for a chance.

For Australia, facing a tricky tour in South Africa, the question is whether to stick with Cam Bancroft and Usman Khawaja. Khawaja has a fundamental flaw playing right-hand bowlers coming round the wicket and he needs to address that. His overseas record doesn't come close to his home record either, though that may be less of an issue given his batting in the Ashes so far.......Bancroft is young and has been finding his way so far, and the question is whether he can translate his good first-class form into Test form. He looks to have good technique and is patient - great attributes for an opener - so I have hopes for him.

For all those batsmen, the selectors will know the pressure is on, which is no bad thing in testing their temperament at this level.

[Mibbes Aye]

Lovely delivery from Cummins to take Stoneman and England are first wicket down - good over from him overall and a timely wicket for Australia given the pitch.

[Mibbes Aye]

Enjoying this particular spell. Lyon showing there's something there for the spinners already, Vince showing that yes, he does know how to drive to the covers on an Australian ground :greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

Senseless loss of his wicket by Vince. If England end up batting again (which one thinks would be likely) then he really needs a score. He had looked like he was settling but that was a real error of judgement.

I think that's Vince been dismissed by all three of the Aussie quicks now, though it's mostly been Hazlewood. They've got his number and I wonder how much Vince's confidence was affected by that run-out at the start of the series.

[Mibbes Aye]

Fine review by Australia to find Cook plumb lbw to Hazlewood. The umpire had given it not out and the commentary box aren't happy about the pitch of the delivery, but it's a done deal now. While I'm typing, there's been a few replays and the commentary box are now accepting it's a genuine dismissal, but only by the narrowest of margins.

Big wicket for Australia and it sets up a big next hour, with two England batsmen yet to play themselves in.

[Mibbes Aye]

Early in the first innings of the last Test but thoughts have to turn to the upcoming series. I think England are in New Zealand and Australia will be in South Africa.

For the Aussies, the questions are around the batting. The bowling unit is established, as are the back-ups. The batting is as unclear as it was before the Ashes started.

Smith and Warner are obviously nailed on. I think Bancroft is young and learning but deserves an ongoing chance and will find SAF wickets not too dissimilar to Australia. Khawjaja has had his opportunities and not really taken them. His Test record is also heavily skewed - he bats well on the Australian grounds he knows but scores at half the rate he does at home.

For me, Smith has to move up to three and probably Shaun Marsh goes to four. That allows Australia to choose two from three, maybe more, but the three I'm thinking of are Renshaw, Lehmann and Handscomb to fill five and six. You can then debate whether Cummins goes up to seven or sits lower. Paine has established himself as the keeper so he's either at seven or eight.

For England, the line-up requires a more fundamental rethink. And as Doddie posted before, that really revolves around whether Stokes is available. With him, England transform into a side with batting depth and the ability to have four attacking seamers.

Without him it opens up all sorts of decisions, though some of those are probably needing asked e.g. should Root move up to three and should Bairstow give up the gloves and move up the order.

What's interesting is that the decisions they make for their respective tours will likely influence what happens in the 2019 Ashes.

[Mibbes Aye]

For anyone unsure about how the new ball can change a game, day one is the exemplar.

Some decent batting at times from England had them looking okay and almost certainly winning the day. Then Australia take the available new ball for the last two overs, dismiss Root and Bairstow and all of a sudden England are staring 0-4 down the throat.

The first hour of day two should be a hoot - three rampant quicks with an almost-perfect new ball, the scent of blood in their nostrils, up against the England tail.

For Australia, Hazlewood and Cummins were the picks, though Starc did ever so well given he is still probably carrying a slight strain. The ball prior to the one that dismissed Root was an absolute beauty. Can't wait to see Josh Hazlewood bowl on English pitches - I'm going to the ODI at Old Trafford in June and it's a pitch that should suit him to a tee.

For England, I think credit has to go to Dawid Malan, he's taking his chance on this tour and cemented himself in the team for now. It's been a chastening tour for Root, but at this stage it looks like he will get one more innings in search of some form of redemption.

[Mibbes Aye]

Really looking forward to the imminent start of day two at Sydney.

We've got the tail order of England, facing Starc, Hazlewood and Cummins with what's essentially a new ball.

Should they go quickly, then we've got Australia opening with still something on offer for Broad and Anderson - with Bancroft and Khawaja perhaps needing to make their case .

Test cricket :greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

Great delivery from Starc and a great catch from Smith to remove Malan, the last of the specialist batsmen for England.

Respect for Malan, he had a good knock and has impressed on tour.

Good chance for Curran to make his name with a partnership with Moeen. Still potential for a lot of runs.

Having just typed that, Nathan Lyon has bowled three beauties in a row.

I'm fascinated as to how Ali and Crane will bowl, once they get the chance.

[Mibbes Aye]

Great to see Lyon bowling to Moeen Ali, with England under pressure.

That sort of dynamic sums up Test cricket at its best.

[marinello59]

Great to see Lyon bowling to Moeen Ali, with England under pressure.

That sort of dynamic sums up Test cricket at its best.

We were saying similar as Lyon started warming up.

[Mibbes Aye]

Nice to see Tom Curran playing some really positive shots. He's making the most of his second opportunity to show he can contribute with the bat, prior to needing to show what he can do with the ball.

[Mibbes Aye]

We were saying similar as Lyon started warming up.

It's those individual battles within a team game, but contributing to the outcome, that makes Test cricket special.

[--------]

It's those individual battles within a team game, but contributing to the outcome, that makes Test cricket special.

Yup. I'm less dismissive of the limited-overs game than I was, but there's nothing to compare with Test cricket. Forty years I've watched it, and it never grows stale.

Except, of course when the groundsman produces a wicket like last week's at the MCG ...

I was going to say something, but I don't want to jinx anyone. :lips seal

[Mibbes Aye]

Yup. I'm less dismissive of the limited-overs game than I was, but there's nothing to compare with Test cricket. Forty years I've watched it, and it never grows stale.

Except, of course when the groundsman produces a wicket like last week's at the MCG ...

I was going to say something, but I don't want to jinx anyone. :lips seal

I'm with you. I can really enjoy the shorter versions of the game but it only takes a decently-poised Test to remind me of how wonderful five-day cricket can be.

I think the Australian tour of South Africa might throw up a couple of beauties and I hope India's tour of England might conjure up at least one compelling match.

[Mibbes Aye]

Good reward for Cummins. That was a period of sustained pressure for Moeen Ali and while he did well, ultimately he couldn't break through. Great ball from Cummins to take the wicket.

As I type, BT are highlighting that Cummins tweaked his delivery in response to feedback from Smith in the slips. Good captaincy.

[Mibbes Aye]

Nice stand from Curran and Broad - Broad doing his devil-may-care stuff and Curran trying to show he has batting to add to his bowling.

Proving reasonably successful so far.

[Mibbes Aye]

Good reward again for Cummins. Great knock by Curran though, and he will learn so much from that dismissal and his innings generally. Definitely looks like being a big part of England's future, albeit he will be judged by his bowling more than his batting!

[Mibbes Aye]

And a rather ignominious end to England's innings with a run-out borne of shoddy decision-making.

England have possibly batted better than one would have thought, at the start of play - in football parlance they probably exceeded their 'expected goals' :greengrin

Nevertheless, it's looking like a batsman's wicket and Australia have some batsmen.

[Mibbes Aye]

Great delivery by Broad for Bancroft's wicket. It also highlighted the inexperience of the Australian. Broad is just one off his four hundred now. That takes some doing and it's a great achievement.

On social media there are already calls for Bancroft to be replaced, ahead of the SAF tour. It's interesting - he's had a tough experience, playing Tests against some of the best seamers going just now and he hasn't really shown that well. By the same token he hasn't done badly and a lot of great players started slowly.

With some shuffling of the order, he has Matt Renshaw, Joe Burns, Daniel Hughes and probably a couple of others pushing for a space. It's only Warner and Smith who can confidently pack their passports, from the Aussie top six.

[Mibbes Aye]

It's an oft-repeated theme but how dodgy is Khawaja and his off-stump?

Is he trying to over-compensate, avoiding a LBW?

[Mibbes Aye]

First over for the England tyro Mason Crane and nothing to be ashamed about from that.

Australia picking up the run rate on a good pitch with a softening ball though, England need to beware.

[Mibbes Aye]

Huge wicket for England - Warner had been steadily accumulating runs without ever lighting things up.

And now Steve Smith - talismanic for both sides.

[Mibbes Aye]

I'll give credit to Usman Khawaja. I've criticised him from the outset on the basis that I don't think he's good enough for the side and certainly not good enough at first in.

He's put together a scratchy innings so far though, and made a good half-century.

For the South African tour, if he's picked, it's begging for him to drop to four and Smith to move up to three. It could catapult both of them in different ways.

[Mibbes Aye]

Steve Smith hits his 6000th run in Test cricket. Celebrations ensue.

For some reason, I'm not sure why, but 6000 runs is considered a milestone in cricket in a way that makes 5000 and 7000 not such a big deal. I've never understood why.......

I'm prepared to accept it though, because it's cricket, and cricket is beautiful :greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

Nice stroke from Khawaja to take him to 84.

I've been his sternest critic but he's batted well.

But as I've probably bored everyone already, he bats well on safe Australian grounds.

Hope he scores well, for him, but he is never going to convince me that he is Australia's number three. Smith has to move up.

[--------]

And a rather ignominious end to England's innings with a run-out borne of shoddy decision-making.

England have possibly batted better than one would have thought, at the start of play - in football parlance they probably exceeded their 'expected goals' :greengrin

Nevertheless, it's looking like a batsman's wicket and Australia have some batsmen.


I don't think there was a run there, but Crane didn't have the experience to tell Anderson 'no'. He just might have got home if he had gone for it without hesitation, but Anderson's been around long enough to know better, IMO. Too harsh? The damage was done farther up the order - too many senior/'proper' batsmen not delivering runs.

I'm not impressed by Bairstow's decision to go in ahead of the nightwatchman. Someone had obviously decided a nightwatchman was required, and had told Crane to pad up and be ready to go in. Bairstow unilaterally decides to overrule this - why?

England need an early breakthrough tomorrow or this could (will?) get away from them. Very impressed with Curran.