Should players have to wear poppies?

[18Hibee75]

Not really hibs related but, after seeing James McLean of West Brom again refuse to wear a poppy, should footballers be made too? Personally after reading what James McLean said on the matter I stand with him and fully support him. He is refusing to wear it not because he is disrespectful to the soldiers of WW1 and WW2 but because British soldiers killed his people in his city. Thoughts?

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[Haymaker]

Here we go again...

*popcorn out*

[Swedish hibee]

The saddest place on earth I've been to was seeing the rows upon rows upon rows of graves of soldiers killed in world war 2. I like to think all those brave men gave their life for us to have the life we have today. As someone not living in UK, it's great your Rememberence day is so widely supported.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I would rather they did, but I don't think you can 'make' players wear a shirt with one on it. James McLean is a pretty extreme example though, I mean if you believe everything said about Anthony Stokes you would think he was the commander of the Leith brigade of the provisional IRA, but he didn't seem to have any problem wearing one ... unless there wasn't one on his shirt and I missed it :greengrin

[SirDavidsNapper]

No

[hibbysam]

I would rather they did, but I don't think you can 'make' players wear a shirt with one on it. James McLean is a pretty extreme example though, I mean if you believe everything said about Anthony Stokes you would think he was the commander of the Leith brigade of the provisional IRA, but he didn't seem to have any problem wearing one ... unless there wasn't one on his shirt and I missed it :greengrin

There wasn’t one on Stokes too.

My view on it all is no one should be forced to wear one. Personal choice as far as I am concerned. I also don’t believe clubs should hold minutes silences. Every single person should observe the silence at 11am on the 11th. Every club should also be present at a memorial service on Sunday.

[jakedance]

No. People, including players, can do what they want.

The annual debate about poppies gets more tedious every year. If we’re all pressured to think and do the same thing, regardless of personal beliefs, nationality and backgrounds, then the whole thing becomes completely pointless. You’d have more of a case to argue that football shouldn’t get involved at all in something that has become far too political.

I’d love to see what proportion of people scanning footballers and everyone on the telly for mandatory poppies to be worn for weeks at a time actually put money in a collection box and wear a poppy themselves.

[lyonhibs]

Absolutely not.

[NAE NOOKIE]

No. People, including players, can do what they want.

The annual debate about poppies gets more tedious every year. If we’re all pressured to think and do the same thing, regardless of personal beliefs, nationality and backgrounds, then the whole thing becomes completely pointless. You’d have more of a case to argue that football shouldn’t get involved at all in something that has become far too political.

I’d love to see what proportion of people scanning footballers and everyone on the telly for mandatory poppies to be worn for weeks at a time actually put money in a collection box and wear a poppy themselves.

Which for me was the crux of the debate last year ....... Wearing a poppy was never, not ever, seen as a 'political' act. It was an entirely innocent act of remembrance for people killed fighting for this country and a way to raise money for various charities for disabled ex servicemen and women. Nobody, not a single person, wearing one intended even subliminally for it to be seen as support for war or the decisions justified or unjustified that took us into any conflict ..... in fact I would go so far as to say that wearing a poppy these days for a lot of people is a sign of remembrance for everybody on all sides killed in war, not just British or Commonwealth citizens.

This relatively recent drive from some quarters to deliberately make the poppy political quite frankly gets on my F'ing tits and the implied suggestion that all along me and millions of other people were just too stupid to know the difference between showing respect for the victims of war and gratitude to those who gave their lives, especially in WWII, and glorifying in and being supportive of mass slaughter, oppression and empire building. I for one know exactly the difference and I wont stand for some smart arse with an agenda telling me I don't.

Sadly, the very fact that these discussions appear every year now is proof I suppose that the folk who want to politicise a symbol that certainly in my lifetime has never been political are getting their way ........... well **** them, they will have to prise my poppy out of my cold dead hand :aok:

[Geo_1875]

No. Personal choice to remember the fallen on 11/11 or remembrance Sunday. When did remembrance day become remembrance month?

[SChibs]

No. I'd never wear a poppy myself and if I was being forced to wear one I wouldn't be very happy.

[Pretty Boy]

No.

My memories of Remeberance Day from not so long ago was that in late October poppies and collection tins would appear on the counters of shops and pubs and you would see elderly men with tins in the street offering poppies. I always admired the quiet dignity of that. People pinned a poppy to their overcoat for a few days and then quietly took it off again.

It just seems now to be a huge commercial push that lasts for weeks. There's a stall at the Mound selling poppy branded dog food bowls ffs. Where's the dignity in that? The poppy has certainly been politicised in recent years by both sides of the argument. The Legion themselves have criticised it's use by certain groups and institutions. At one end of the scale forcing everyone who appears on the BBC to wear a poppy removes the personal choice and with it the meaning imo. At the other, and somewhat topically, there was a video of the recent FLA march that showed a bunch of 'lads' waving a wreath of poppies about and chanting 'there's only one Lee Rigby'. Disgusting behaviour and missing the point far more than those who quietly choose not to wear a poppy. Social media is awash with pictures of poppies with taglines like 'if this offends you get the **** out my country' and so on, about as far removed from respectful remeberance as you can get.

The subtle changing of language from 'rememberance' to 'support' which has crept into the rhetoric in the last 3 or 4 years troubles me. I've even heard a few mentions of a phrase that has always bothered me recently, 'the glorious dead'.

No one should be forced to wear a poppy, it loses any meaning as soon as that happens. Personally I'll pin a white poppy to my jacket later this week and remove it after the 11th.

[heidtheba]

Absolutely not.
I'm a massive supporter of the concept behind the poppy and I've always worn one. I see it as a small thing I can do to remember, or rather 'consider', the sacrifices made made by so many so that I can have the freedoms I have. I think the money that is raised from the sales goes to an incredibly important charity (one which should not need to exist as support for our armed forces personnel should come from the government).
However, forcing someone to wear it is not on. People should always have freedom to do what they feel. Forcing people, through whatever pressures, totally negates any benefit from wearing it.
I like seeing people wearing it, I want to think that they are aware of what they have chosen to do, I don't view people who refuse to wear it negatively and it's not my place to comment on why/why not someone has chosen to wear this.

[CropleyWasGod]

There wasn’t one on Stokes too.

My view on it all is no one should be forced to wear one. Personal choice as far as I am concerned. I also don’t believe clubs should hold minutes silences. Every single person should observe the silence at 11am on the 11th. Every club should also be present at a memorial service on Sunday.Every single person should observe the silence?

Isn't that a personal choice as well?

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[greenpaper55]

If you would rather ignore the dead that gave their lives to save this nation well i suppose thats fine, just fine.

[Scouse Hibee]

Forcing someone to wear one would be a pretty pointless exercise.

[jakedance]

Pretty Boy has hit on something I failed to articulate in my own post - “quiet dignity”. It all started with Princess Diana’s death when public displays of grief became expected. Then along came social media where if someone doesn’t tell the world they experienced or thought something then they can be criticised. Everyone is searching for things to be offended about.

I’m only 40 but already too old for this world.

[CockneyRebel]

Which for me was the crux of the debate last year ....... Wearing a poppy was never, not ever, seen as a 'political' act. It was an entirely innocent act of remembrance for people killed fighting for this country and a way to raise money for various charities for disabled ex servicemen and women. Nobody, not a single person, wearing one intended even subliminally for it to be seen as support for war or the decisions justified or unjustified that took us into any conflict ..... in fact I would go so far as to say that wearing a poppy these days for a lot of people is a sign of remembrance for everybody on all sides killed in war, not just British or Commonwealth citizens.

This relatively recent drive from some quarters to deliberately make the poppy political quite frankly gets on my F'ing tits and the implied suggestion that all along me and millions of other people were just too stupid to know the difference between showing respect for the victims of war and gratitude to those who gave their lives, especially in WWII, and glorifying in and being supportive of mass slaughter, oppression and empire building. I for one know exactly the difference and I wont stand for some smart arse with an agenda telling me I don't.

Sadly, the very fact that these discussions appear every year now is proof I suppose that the folk who want to politicise a symbol that certainly in my lifetime has never been political are getting their way ........... well **** them, they will have to prise my poppy out of my cold dead hand :aok:



Good shout mate - I firmly believe that the freedom of choice on whether to wear a poppy or not is part of what these wars were fought for.

[Johnny Clash]

Nobody should be forced to wear a poppy. A lot of good points have already been made on this thread and they show people wear a poppy for a variety of reasons as do people who choose not to wear a poppy. It’s all about personal choice and I think it’s important we respect that.

[SeanWilson]

Pretty Boy has hit on something I failed to articulate in my own post - “quiet dignity”. It all started with Princess Diana’s death when public displays of grief became expected. Then along came social media where if someone doesn’t tell the world they experienced or thought something then they can be criticised. Everyone is searching for things to be offended about.

I’m only 40 but already too old for this world.

It's become the sanctimonious look at me thing to do.

[lugz]

No

[sleeping giant]

If you would rather ignore the dead that gave their lives to save this nation well i suppose thats fine, just fine.

This is a brutal post.

Ignore the dead?

[green day]

I was never forced to wear a poppy in a workplace, why should footballers?

Wearing a poppy, and/or observing a silence are voluntary, not mandatory acts.

I can only imagine what soldiers, who died to help keep this country free, would make of anyone being forced to do something like this against their will.

I think the way Hibs did it - i.e. allowing Stokes to wear a normal jersey, but not making a big deal of it - was right.

[bookert]

This is a brutal post.

Ignore the dead?
Surely the allied forces fought nazism so that we could have a free choice in issues like this.

[Pretty Boy]

If you would rather ignore the dead that gave their lives to save this nation well i suppose thats fine, just fine.

What an awful post. People have made their points about what they believe respectfully and you come out with a statement like that.

I know an ex serviceman in his 90s who doesn't wear a poppy nor attend any events he is invited to. Should he be criticised for 'ignoring' his fallen friends and colleagues?

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

No. It is personal choice.

[worcesterhibby]

Nope..individual choice.

[andybev1]

I went to Ypes a few years back and it was really emotional but the one thing I did not expect was to realise that there was a LOT of young german boys that were killed too and their gravestones were there also and I do not think that they were to blame for our boys deaths in that they were just trying to survive also.

That is the reason I would not wear a red poppy now, but a white one. Said best by Richard Jakson on his blog: I would wear a red poppy if it did not function to hide the truth and obscure reality – if it wasn’t a way of enforcing a particular kind of collective memory which is actually designed to forget uncomfortable realities; if it wasn’t intimately tied up with a whole series of myths and untruths about heroic sacrifice and necessary violence in war. The truth is that war is cruel, bloody, and inglorious, and that the soldiers we remember are there to kill and maim fellow human beings, and to die screaming for their mothers

https://richardjacksonterrorismblog.wordpress.com/2011/10/30/why-i-wear-the-white-poppy-not-the-red-poppy/

.

[Bostonhibby]

No. People can think for themselves and might even have a different less demonstrative way of remembering and paying tribute.

They might even do it throughout the year rather than around this time.

The hijacking of the occasion by some who then claim to be better rememberers or more patriotic than others is crass, self serving and perhaps says more about their lack of understanding of the events and their herd mentality than anything else.

It never used to be like this and whilst I'll continue to wear one for my own reasons it won't be because anyone told me to or because it's now become fashionable for any particular group to align themselves with it.

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[Bostonhibby]

If you would rather ignore the dead that gave their lives to save this nation well i suppose thats fine, just fine.My grandfather fought in the first world war, rarely spoke of it to us as kids but we learnt that he remembered it badly. He never wore a poppy by choice.

Guess we all remember and demonstrate our respect differently.

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[Robinho08]

No, should be personal choice. I'm not offended by people who choose to wear a poppy or not.

[lapsedhibee]

If you would rather ignore the dead that gave their lives to save this nation well i suppose thats fine, just fine.

Are you going for some "Virtue Signaller Of The Year" award with this post?

[lord bunberry]

If you would rather ignore the dead that gave their lives to save this nation well i suppose thats fine, just fine.
It’s attitudes like this that makes people determined not to wear a poppy, and it’s given rise to the situation we have now. I absolutely hate these threads and normally don’t comment much on them as I can’t stand seeing the issue reduced to a point scoring exercise with silly comments and even worse gifs and pictures.
I choose to wear a poppy, but I do it for my own reasons, not as something to display to others. I wish people would just respect each other’s right to make up their own mind, rather than coming out with nonsense like this.

[easty]

You shouldn't have to wear one, and not wearing one shouldn't automatically mean you obviously have nae respect and hate everyone who died in the war.

It's all got a bit ridiculous.

[Kato]

If you would rather ignore the dead that gave their lives to save this nation well i suppose thats fine, just fine.

Two of my Mum's brothers died in WWII. Occasionally I'd find her in tears and on asking her why she'd tell me something had reminded her of them and she was just upset. Whether she, or I, wore or wear a poppy made no difference to her memory or mine.

[chippy]

If you would rather ignore the dead that gave their lives to save this nation well i suppose thats fine, just fine.
A stirring comment is it meant to provoke us non poppy wearers who lost many relatives in ww1 and ww2? I totally respect anyone who died or was hurt in those conflicts particularly those who were conscripts or volunteers. Professional service men and women take their chances and will not be a party to supporting UK dodgy wars post ww2

[Sir David Gray]

No they shouldn't.

[chippy]

If you would rather ignore the dead that gave their lives to save this nation well i suppose thats fine, just fine.
A stirring comment is it meant to provoke us non poppy wearers who lost many relatives in ww1 and ww2? I totally respect anyone who died or was hurt in those conflicts particularly those who were conscripts or volunteers. Professional service men and women take their chances and will not be a party to supporting UK dodgy wars post ww2

[brog]

[QUOTE=NAE NOOKIE;5213546]Which for me was the crux of the debate last year ....... Wearing a poppy was never, not ever, seen as a 'political' act. It was an entirely innocent act of remembrance for people killed fighting for this country and a way to raise money for various charities for disabled ex servicemen and women. Nobody, not a single person, wearing one intended even subliminally for it to be seen as support for war or the decisions justified or unjustified that took us into any conflict ..... in fact I would go so far as to say that wearing a poppy these days for a lot of people is a sign of remembrance for everybody on all sides killed in war, not just British or Commonwealth citizens.

This relatively recent drive from some quarters to deliberately make the poppy political quite frankly gets on my F'ing tits and the implied suggestion that all along me and millions of other people were just too stupid to know the difference between showing respect for the victims of war and gratitude to those who gave their lives, especially in WWII, and glorifying in and being supportive of mass slaughter, oppression and empire building. I for one know exactly the difference and I wont stand for some smart arse with an agenda telling me I don't.

Sadly, the very fact that these discussions appear every year now is proof I suppose that the folk who want to politicise a symbol



I'm not in any way arguing with you, I contribute to the poppy fund every year. I do believe however that opposition to the poppy has arisen because many people, myself included, feel it's now displayed too early & too often, particularly on TV. The 1st poppies on newscasters appeared in October this year & it appears to be compulsory that every person wears one. The outrage about non wearing is IMO false & unnecessary & echoes the nonsense in the USA about the flag & national anthem. Pretty Boy has articulated it better than I can so I'll only say this, those who gave their lives are often stated to have done so to defend our freedom. That includes freedom of choice.

[Scorrie]

You shouldn't have to wear one, and not wearing one shouldn't automatically mean you obviously have nae respect and hate everyone who died in the war.

It's all got a bit ridiculous.

Sums it up for me. Wearing a poppy is a personal matter as far as I’m concerned.

[hibbysam]

Every single person should observe the silence?

Isn't that a personal choice as well?

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To me, the whole nation falls silent on the 11th, always has so I would see that as fairly disrespectful if you didn’t observe it.

[CropleyWasGod]

To me, the whole nation falls silent on the 11th, always has so I would see that as fairly disrespectful if you didn’t observe it.

It doesn't, though.

People will still be going about their usual routine on Saturday. Shops will be open, buses will be driven. Many people won't give it a thought.

[NZ Green]

By not wearing a poppy, they're inadvertently paying tribute to their freedom of choice that these men died for.

[DarlingtonHibee]

I feel it's a matter of personal choice, there are many things about being British that people choose to forget.

[-Jonesy-]

I choose not to as i feel it's being completely co opted as a symbol of support for the imperial war machine and for some people a badge to show a particularly "British" way of life.

[IWasThere2016]

No.

But I would - and always will. I visited the Somme last June - when travelling from Paris to Lille. I went to Albert and Thiepval. The sight of the graves and poppies will live for me forever.

I traveled with two Republicans (one Irish and ex-IRA senior, another a Scottish Cellic fan) and a NI Protestant Loyalist - ROI shirts and NI shirts were worn.

We visited the Ulster, and passed the Irish, memorial site outside Albert.

Tens of thousands of Irish wore the British uniform, fought and died in the Great War - and hence I don't agree with James McLean's stance on this.

There was a memorial last year in Dublin to commemorate 100 years passing. I am sure poppies were worn and wreaths laid.

[SChibs]

I choose not to as i feel it's being completely co opted as a symbol of support for the imperial war machine and for some people a badge to show a particularly "British" way of life.

This is how I feel.

I don't think the British army is anything to be proud of so I don't want to be associated with it by wearing a poppy. This doesn't mean I don't respect soldiers they were brave men and did what the felt like they had to do.

[Kato]

By not wearing a poppy, they're inadvertently paying tribute to their freedom of choice that these men died for.

Or maybe paying tribute directly and consciously to that freedom of choice.

[TAHibby]

This forcing of public figures to wear poppies massively contradicts with why we would actually wear them in the first place... The annual outrage at James McLean is pathetic

[Carheenlea]

Get your very tasteful 'Lest we Forget' bunting here before stocks run out

https://www.theflagshop.co.uk/events-occasions-flags/armistice-day.html

[DarlingtonHibee]

Get your very tasteful 'Lest we Forget' bunting here before stocks run out

https://www.theflagshop.co.uk/events-occasions-flags/armistice-day.html

I really don't think the men and women who died would want to see that.

[Kato]

Get your very tasteful 'Lest we Forget' bunting here before stocks run out

https://www.theflagshop.co.uk/events-occasions-flags/armistice-day.html

No sign of anything being donated to charities just the usual commercial stuff, ....

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Hijacked guff.

[tigerted]

No. Why would you even ask?

[hhibs]

Not really hibs related but, after seeing James McLean of West Brom again refuse to wear a poppy, should footballers be made too? Personally after reading what James McLean said on the matter I stand with him and fully support him. He is refusing to wear it not because he is disrespectful to the soldiers of WW1 and WW2 but because British soldiers killed his people in his city. Thoughts?

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To answer your original question,No.

[gillythehibby]

No and as i posted on another site the Hibs jersey should have a Hibs badge and nothing else. This whole poppy malarky has been hijacked and made political.

[gillythehibby]

No and as i posted on another site the Hibs jersey should have a Hibs badge and nothing else. This whole poppy malarky has been hijacked and made political.

[Keith_M]

No.

But the problem the clubs have is the public outcry from the eternally outraged. That's the same reason that so many people on TV seem to be wearing them for weeks before Remembrance Day.

[Vini1875]

No. I don't think we should have them on Hibs shirts at all. I view it as a symbol of continued support for the British Army and continued support for wars past, present and future.

One of the problems with the poppy recently seems to be that wearing one or not is viewed as some sort of political statement.

[18Hibee75]

If you would rather ignore the dead that gave their lives to save this nation well i suppose thats fine, just fine.[emoji476]

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[Thecat23]

Every year this comes up and to be honest it’s a farce now. Years ago it actually meant something, now it’s a fashion statement to get one up on folk who maybe choose not to wear one.

I’d rather now give to poppy charity than have the hassle of this. I fully respect anyone who doesn’t wear one for all I know they are maybe doing their own thing to respect the fallen soldiers.

As for should it be on Football tops no I don’t think it should. Leave all the politics outside and let Hibs mark the occasion as they usually do along with fans if they want to go along as well.

Again this is only my opinion there is no right or wrong just the way I see it.

[The Harp Awakes]

Nope.

I stopped wearing a poppy decades ago when it became a symbol of the British Army rather than one remembering the fallen in WW1 and WW2.

I detest the poppy being used as a political symbol, which sadly many do now.

I still have my Granddad's medals framed on my wall at home and will have a quiet thought about my Great Uncle on Nov 11 who died in the Somme at 19 years old.

The poppy police can stay away from me though.

[Ricky Bobby]

It is time Britain had an adult conversation about this subject. The decision to wear a poppies should be a purely personal choice.
I am fed up seeing countless people appearing on our TV screens who are quite obviously told they must wear one. There can be no bigger insult to those that have fallen than to force people to wear these.
The fact that it has become so commercial is also very concerning as it takes away from the meaning of wearing a poppy. Our shameless neighbours and their brothers in Glasgow have *******ised this commemoration into some giant point scoring exercise. Starting to wear poppies in October and having minutes silence a week before the 11th are pathetic attempts at attention seeking.
Personally I wear a poppy every year out of respect for family members who have served,but I have no problem with those that do not wear a poppy or wear a white poppy.

[basehibby]

No. I don't think we should have them on Hibs shirts at all. I view it as a symbol of continued support for the British Army and continued support for wars past, present and future.

One of the problems with the poppy recently seems to be that wearing one or not is viewed as some sort of political statement.

THIS - most thinking people recognise that Rememberance Sunday was always meant to symbolise a desire to strive for PEACE by remembering the tragic sacrifice made by previous generations accompanied by the bywords NEVER AGAIN. Unfortunately though, generations of hypocritical politicians and jingoistic ****ers have hijacked it as a rallying cry to drum up recruitment for the latest questionable and/or illegal war which the idiots at Westminster have dragged the country into.

Given this background - along with the pathetic "poppy facism" displayed by the likes of the BBC - it is little wonder that some feel uncomfortable about embracing this symbolism. Particularly if they hail from a place - such as Ireland - where attrocities were on occasion committed by the British Army, and the powers that be insist on including any and all British military casualties in the poppy day roll call - thereby inevitably honouring at least some murderous war criminals amongst the dead - while basically seeming to ignore the many more millions of casualties inflicted on civilians and, of course, all the other combatants in these conflicts.

Given the above it's easy to understand why not everyone is comfortable with wearing a poppy and therefore it should definately NOT be compulsory in ANY walk of life.

[One Day]

It is time Britain had an adult conversation about this subject. The decision to wear a poppies should be a purely personal choice.
I am fed up seeing countless people appearing on our TV screens who are quite obviously told they must wear one. There can be no bigger insult to those that have fallen than to force people to wear these.
The fact that it has become so commercial is also very concerning as it takes away from the meaning of wearing a poppy. Our shameless neighbours and their brothers in Glasgow have *******ised this commemoration into some giant point scoring exercise. Starting to wear poppies in October and having minutes silence a week before the 11th are pathetic attempts at attention seeking.
Personally I wear a poppy every year out of respect for family members who have served,but I have no problem with those that do not wear a poppy or wear a white poppy.

Me too

[wookie70]

If this board is representative of Hibs fans it seems the majority agree that personal choice for wearing a poppy or not should be respected. There are enough posts saying it is political that at least the question should be asked - should it be part of a Hibs kit. Maybe it is time to take that to the supporters representatives. I don't think there has been any opposition on holding a dignified silence so perhaps we should restrict it to that and allow players to wear an armband with a poppy or simple black armband to show respect if they wish.

There are still thousands of WW2 vets surviving but that won't be the case in the long term. Is there something the club could do to show support for them. Screening of old football matches or holding afternoon teas etc. That may be seen in a wholly positive way by the support.

[blackpoolhibs]

Why cant we just get on with playing football, and have a minutes silence on the 11th of Nov like we used to do?

[proud_and_green]

I get really annoyed at the 'holier than thow' attitude to everything nowadays, whether that is to remembrance or to the latest scandal to hit the news.

The poppy and remembrance belong to the country not the armed services (by the way I say that as an ex soldier). To me they are important times for me to remember some old pals, and many others who I didn't know, who made the ultimate sacrifice. They are absolutely not about remembering (or glorifying) the events during which they were killed but remembering them and fact that they were killed.

That said, a compulsion to participate would, for me, undermine the whole purpose of it - it is private and personal. At my work I don't like the announcement that the silence is about to start, and then the next to say it has finished. I tend to go away somewhere where I can contemplate alone. Remembrance for me is not a team game.

Pretty boy mentioned the dignified silence, I would add understated and sincere - other aspects which have been lost which meant a lot to me.

Remembrance used to encourage national humility, it now seems to encourage the opposite.

Everyone should do what they feel comfortable with and take politics and rivalry out of it and without any hint of compulsion.





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[ben johnson]

I don't wear a poppy as I don't think it's the symbol it was years ago. The simple poppy has all but gone and has been replaced by all manner of designs as seen on television.
I will on Sunday go to our local remembrance service when the the minister and congregation march from the church to the monument to the locals who perished in the two world wars. This ceremony means the traffic is halted either way on the main road. The cars in the queue are going nowhere for ten minutes but I've yet to see one of the occupants get out the vehicle and join what is always a sparse attendance. Most don't even switch off their engines. They settle in for ten minutes on their phone while the ceremony is in progress. There is more to remembering than wearing a symbol. I would be happy to see all traffic stopping at 11am on the Sunday but that's just my opinion.

[Scouse Hibee]

I wear a poppy because to me it's a symbol of what I want it to be. A symbol of remembrance. I simply won't allow anyone else's perception of it to affect me.

[monktonharp]

I feel it's a matter of personal choice, there are many things about being British that people choose to forget.quite true, and much more that forget what the British did. I wont wear a poppy. the second world war was a fight that had to happen. the first, on the other hand was british imperialism v German imperialism and started y other countries, which led to "our royal family" fighting "their royal family" .millions of young men on either side died , and for nothing gained.

[ben johnson]

Remembrance Day events were scaled down during the Second World War. The 1918 victory seemed hollow and people had to think about the current war, not the previous one. After 1945 both conflicts were remembered on the Sunday closest to 11 November. This signified a real change in the nature of the ceremony. In the interwar years a poignant two-minute silence had annually been inserted into the fabric of an ordinary day.

[ben johnson]

In a letter published in the London Evening News on 8 May 1919, an Australian journalist, Edward George Honey, had proposed a respectful silence to remember those who had given their lives in the First World War. This was brought to the attention of King George V and on 7 November 1919, the King issued a proclamation which called for a two minute silence:

"All locomotion should cease, so that, in perfect stillness, the thoughts of everyone may be concentrated on reverent remembrance of the glorious dead."

[lapsedhibee]

Remembrance Day events were scaled down during the Second World War. The 1918 victory seemed hollow and people had to think about the current war, not the previous one. After 1945 both conflicts were remembered on the Sunday closest to 11 November. This signified a real change in the nature of the ceremony. In the interwar years a poignant two-minute silence had annually been inserted into the fabric of an ordinary day.

That happened in my childhood/yoof, long after the end of the second world war.

[Pretty Boy]

That happened in my childhood/yoof, long after the end of the second world war.

:agree:

I'm only 31 and that's how I recall events until very recently.

[Thegreenside]

No.

But I would - and always will. I visited the Somme last June - when travelling from Paris to Lille. I went to Albert and Thiepval. The sight of the graves and poppies will live for me forever.

I traveled with two Republicans (one Irish and ex-IRA senior, another a Scottish Cellic fan) and a NI Protestant Loyalist - ROI shirts and NI shirts were worn.

We visited the Ulster, and passed the Irish, memorial site outside Albert.

Tens of thousands of Irish wore the British uniform, fought and died in the Great War - and hence I don't agree with James McLean's stance on this.

There was a memorial last year in Dublin to commemorate 100 years passing. I am sure poppies were worn and wreaths laid.



James McLean’s stance is to do with Bloody Sunday. A massacre that happened on his door step. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/11218322/James-McClean-Why-I-wont-wear-a-poppy.html

[bigwheel]

No.

But I would - and always will. I visited the Somme last June - when travelling from Paris to Lille. I went to Albert and Thiepval. The sight of the graves and poppies will live for me forever.

I traveled with two Republicans (one Irish and ex-IRA senior, another a Scottish Cellic fan) and a NI Protestant Loyalist - ROI shirts and NI shirts were worn.

We visited the Ulster, and passed the Irish, memorial site outside Albert.

Tens of thousands of Irish wore the British uniform, fought and died in the Great War - and hence I don't agree with James McLean's stance on this.

There was a memorial last year in Dublin to commemorate 100 years passing. I am sure poppies were worn and wreaths laid.




Yes many many Irish fought and lost their lives in WW1, but equally many were killed by British Forces in a number of atrocities (killings during the Irish Civil war, Bloody Sunday, massacre at Croke Park - to name a few. It is perfectly plain (and understandable) to me that many feel they can't partition these events to one side and wear a poppy recognising other british military events.

Actually, to me, it feels patronising (at best) to expect them to do so.

[andybev1]

In a letter published in the London Evening News on 8 May 1919, an Australian journalist, Edward George Honey, had proposed a respectful silence to remember those who had given their lives in the First World War. This was brought to the attention of King George V and on 7 November 1919, the King issued a proclamation which called for a two minute silence:

"All locomotion should cease, so that, in perfect stillness, the thoughts of everyone may be concentrated on reverent remembrance of the glorious dead."

No such thing as the glorious dead - leave it to the sorts that start these wars to come out with something like that - bet his children were not on the front line.

[Monts]

Do people wear poppies in other countries?

[Monts]

If this board is representative of Hibs fans it seems the majority agree that personal choice for wearing a poppy or not should be respected. There are enough posts saying it is political that at least the question should be asked - should it be part of a Hibs kit. Maybe it is time to take that to the supporters representatives. I don't think there has been any opposition on holding a dignified silence so perhaps we should restrict it to that and allow players to wear an armband with a poppy or simple black armband to show respect if they wish.

There are still thousands of WW2 vets surviving but that won't be the case in the long term. Is there something the club could do to show support for them. Screening of old football matches or holding afternoon teas etc. That may be seen in a wholly positive way by the support.

As evidenced by Stokes, the club already see the wearing of a poppy as a personal choice.

[Swedish hibee]

Do people wear poppies in other countries?

We do not have a memorial day as officially Sweden did not fight in that war. But we understand how important a day it is to Europeans, and it does get featured on tv, in church etc. Many Swedes do wear a paper poppy, and it is not uncommon to see people wear them even in my small mountain town. In Sweden we have days like soldiers day and holocaust remember day, where we will always remember the dead and those who gave (and continue to give) their lives. Gone but never forgotten.

[--------]

No such thing as the glorious dead - leave it to the sorts that start these wars to come out with something like that - bet his children were not on the front line.


His second son, the Duke of York - later King George VI - served as a junior officer in the RN throughout the War and was serving as a gunnery officer aboard HMS Collingwood, a rather elderly Grand Fleet battleship at Jutland. I mean by that that she was by no means one of the Navy's crack 'glamour' ships. The RN lost nearly 7,000 men that afternoon and evening - most of them in the crews of three battlecruisers and two heavy armoured cruisers that were destroyed with all hands (or all but 2 or 3 men) - so being in even a big warship was no guarantee of safety.

I think that qualifies as the 'front line'.

And I don't think that Remembrance is about 'glorifying' the dead - or at least, it shouldn't be - but a proper respect for the courage and service of the men and women who served in the World Wars seems appropriate to me. Two generations of my family went to those wars (mine was the first generation last century NOT to be called up). It was something they had to do and they did it, and suffered for it as did so many of those generations.

Few die well who die in a battle.

PS: I agree with those who feel that Remembrance has been hijacked by undesirable elements with nasty political agendas. It's not the same observance as it was 30-40 years ago.

[heretoday]

Sums it up for me. Wearing a poppy is a personal matter as far as I’m concerned.

Hear hear. Minute's silence before the matches and leave the poppies in the dressing room.

[Sylar]

I posted a lengthy post in the Holy Ground forum about what I see as a shifting pattern of the poppy more generally (inspired by the poppy up shops in Glasgow Central and on Buchanan Street, where you can buy a diverse range of 'poppy merchandise').

With regards to football, I don't believe in poppy fascism in any of its guises. The freedom to chose whether or not we wear a poppy is entirely at the behest of the individual, and they shouldn't be attacked by a pious element of the population that seem to think there should be mandated poppies handed out and worn from October to December. Having said that, institutionally, I find it fitting that the clubs display a poppy on their strips - a lot of clubs lost players during the era of both wars, and institutionally, they represent a sect of society that lost fathers, husbands, children, brothers...those shirts are then auctioned off normally and raise a good bit of money to help a suitably identified charity, so they serve a good purpose both for the club and the charities that benefit from the poppy.

I did find it quite respectful to see Jurgen Klopp, David Wagner and every single German player in the Premiership over the weekend wearing a poppy. It's a quiet, easy and respectful decision that honours the club's wishes to respect the occasion. I guess that does make me wonder why the Irish players feel unable to follow suit, given that our acts of remembrance commemorate those lost in 2 wars principally against German opposition and their countrymen still participate. If the red poppy represents something they absolutely cannot support, perhaps they might be offered an opportunity to wear a white poppy instead? But then that would be mandating that every single footballer have a poppy on their shirt, which goes completely against what I said in the previous paragraph. It's definitely a difficult issue, and I'd agree with the poster above that perhaps a grown-up discussion about the symbolism and politicisation of the poppy is necessary.

[Swedish hibee]

I posted a lengthy post in the Holy Ground forum about what I see as a shifting pattern of the poppy more generally (inspired by the poppy up shops in Glasgow Central and on Buchanan Street, where you can buy a diverse range of 'poppy merchandise').

With regards to football, I don't believe in poppy fascism in any of its guises. The freedom to chose whether or not we wear a poppy is entirely at the behest of the individual, and they shouldn't be attacked by a pious element of the population that seem to think there should be mandated poppies handed out and worn from October to December. Having said that, institutionally, I find it fitting that the clubs display a poppy on their strips - a lot of clubs lost players during the era of both wars, and institutionally, they represent a sect of society that lost fathers, husbands, children, brothers...those shirts are then auctioned off normally and raise a good bit of money to help a suitably identified charity, so they serve a good purpose both for the club and the charities that benefit from the poppy.

I did find it quite respectful to see Jurgen Klopp, David Wagner and every single German player in the Premiership over the weekend wearing a poppy. It's a quiet, easy and respectful decision that honours the club's wishes to respect the occasion. I guess that does make me wonder why the Irish players feel unable to follow suit, given that our acts of remembrance commemorate those lost in 2 wars principally against German opposition and their countrymen still participate. If the red poppy represents something they absolutely cannot support, perhaps they might be offered an opportunity to wear a white poppy instead? But then that would be mandating that every single footballer have a poppy on their shirt, which goes completely against what I said in the previous paragraph. It's definitely a difficult issue, and I'd agree with the poster above that perhaps a grown-up discussion about the symbolism and politicisation of the poppy is necessary.

I too thought it was respectful of the German born footballers at the weekend. A very touching moment.

[Brizo]

Pretty Boy has hit on something I failed to articulate in my own post - “quiet dignity”. It all started with Princess Diana’s death when public displays of grief became expected. Then along came social media where if someone doesn’t tell the world they experienced or thought something then they can be criticised. Everyone is searching for things to be offended about.

I’m only 40 but already too old for this world.

Diana's death sparked a definite change in British public behaviour from the "stiff upper lip" Britishness which characterised how those returning from the two WWs conducted themselves to public demonstrations of grief where those grieving often have no personal connection with the deceased. I didn't understand the Diana thing and still don't.

I'm a red poppy wearer but the poppy thing has very much become an industry and stuff like those football crest / poppy badges leaves me cold. I'm not a fan of the minutes silence at football games or compulsory poppy wear so i'm pleased Hibs didnt do the first and gave the players freedom of choice over the second.

[OsloHibs]

Do people wear poppies in other countries?

Yes.We have official ceremonies laying poppy wreaths here in the bigger cities in Norway to remember the dead. Soldiers are very much a huge part of Norway life, when you leave school at 19 many men & women have to do their national service.

[jdships]

Here we go again...

*popcorn out*

10/10

[Geo_1875]

Was down at West Ham on Saturday and they go for it gung-ho with troops and bands and a very loud stadium announcement. Chairmen, ex-players etc. with wreathes. Only poignant moment was a couple of WWII veterans taking a salute from current serving troops. All forgotten for another year as soon as the minute silence is over.

[fulshie]

No is the simple answer. I personally wear one but only on the 11th November then I take it back off. Its up to the individual really.

[ben johnson]

No such thing as the glorious dead - leave it to the sorts that start these wars to come out with something like that - bet his children were not on the front line.

If you notice the words are in italics. It's the Kings own words and certainly not words I would ever dream of using.

[ronaldo7]

Was down at West Ham on Saturday and they go for it gung-ho with troops and bands and a very loud stadium announcement. Chairmen, ex-players etc. with wreathes. Only poignant moment was a couple of WWII veterans taking a salute from current serving troops. All forgotten for another year as soon as the minute silence is over.

I noticed some folk dressed in WW1 uniforms. What's it coming to? Certainly not dignified silence.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

https://www.poppyscotlandstore.com/poppyscotland-home-gifts/poppyscotland-pets/poppyscotland-poop-bag-holder.html

The ultimite in dignified 'rememberance', must have sold like hotcakes as sold out in the official poppy merchandise store.

[ben johnson]

https://www.poppyscotlandstore.com/poppyscotland-home-gifts/poppyscotland-pets/poppyscotland-poop-bag-holder.html

The ultimite in dignified 'rememberance', must have sold like hotcakes as sold out in the official poppy merchandise store.

It's so wrong it's hard to imagine someone even coming up with that idea

[lapsedhibee]

https://www.poppyscotlandstore.com/poppyscotland-home-gifts/poppyscotland-pets/poppyscotland-poop-bag-holder.html

The ultimite in dignified 'rememberance', must have sold like hotcakes as sold out in the official poppy merchandise store.

That'll be yams, whose eagle eyes spotted dug sh*te on the Muddy Field on Sunday.

[Lancs Harp]

As a kid, In England I cant remember even having a minutes silence at games , let alone players with poppies on their shirts for remembrance day as it was then before it turned into remembrance fortnight. We have tv presenters wearing poppies on their attire in mid October now. IMO its losing its value by stuffing it down our throats. Men and women gave up their lives so we could choose whether we wanted to wear a poppy for a month , a fortnight, a week, a day or not at all.

[Crazyhorse]

Not really hibs related but, after seeing James McLean of West Brom again refuse to wear a poppy, should footballers be made too? Personally after reading what James McLean said on the matter I stand with him and fully support him. He is refusing to wear it not because he is disrespectful to the soldiers of WW1 and WW2 but because British soldiers killed his people in his city. Thoughts?

Sent from my F3211 using Tapatalk

No they shouldn't have to wear poppies.

[Michael]

https://www.poppyscotlandstore.com/poppyscotland-home-gifts/poppyscotland-pets/poppyscotland-poop-bag-holder.html

The ultimite in dignified 'rememberance', must have sold like hotcakes as sold out in the official poppy merchandise store.

Wow, that's much worse than I expected. How could anyone approve of this? Or buy it?

[monktonharp]

https://www.poppyscotlandstore.com/poppyscotland-home-gifts/poppyscotland-pets/poppyscotland-poop-bag-holder.html

The ultimite in dignified 'rememberance', must have sold like hotcakes as sold out in the official poppy merchandise store.that is seriously one bag o' ****. that is taking it to another level. let's finish this thread with an agreed stance that it is a personal choice and that it has become almost demeaning to those that made the ultimate sacrifice.

[jacomo]

that is seriously one bag o' ****. that is taking it to another level. let's finish this thread with an agreed stance that it is a personal choice and that it has become almost demeaning to those that made the ultimate sacrifice.


:agree:

[Dashing Bob S]

Unfortunately Remembrance Day culture has been sabotaged by nativist right wing nationalists, and turned into a glorification of the establishment and the status quo. It’s not a reaction to the horror of war but a celebration of that sort of militarism, imperialism and elitism that makes mass slaughter inevitable. I used to wear a poppy with pride. Right now I’d rather wear a swastika. I appreciate that many people, especially older ones, still see Remembrance Day and the poppy as a more innocent, dignified and benign affair. That’s their right. But mine is to reject this fascist nonsense. Football should stay out this.

[givescotlandfreedom]

Get your very tasteful 'Lest we Forget' bunting here before stocks run out

https://www.theflagshop.co.uk/events-occasions-flags/armistice-day.html

Some of the official stuff is quite distasteful too IMO. Killing machine cufflinks/keyrings for example:
http://www.poppyshop.org.uk/raf-vulcan-cufflinks.html

http://www.poppyshop.org.uk/f-35-lightning-ii-cufflinks.html

http://www.poppyshop.org.uk/tank-cufflinks.html

http://www.poppyshop.org.uk/harrier-cufflinks.html

That's not being sombre, reflective or remembering the futility of war, it's glorifying it. Poppy dog and cat feeding bowls doesn't exactly seem respectful to me either

[OsloHibs]

Unfortunately Remembrance Day culture has been sabotaged by nativist right wing nationalists, and turned into a glorification of the establishment and the status quo. It’s not a reaction to the horror of war but a celebration of that sort of militarism, imperialism and elitism that makes mass slaughter inevitable. I used to wear a poppy with pride. Right now I’d rather wear a swastika. I appreciate that many people, especially older ones, still see Remembrance Day and the poppy as a more innocent, dignified and benign affair. That’s their right. But mine is to reject this fascist nonsense. Football should stay out this.

I dont understand this post at all.

[midfield_maestro]

https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch/status/927280985942700034

19645

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I wear a poppy because to me it's a symbol of what I want it to be. A symbol of remembrance. I simply won't allow anyone else's perception of it to affect me.

Very much this.

[Firestarter]

Nobody should be forced or singled out for doing or in this case not doing something that isn't illegal.

[Paisley Hibby]

Not really hibs related but, after seeing James McLean of West Brom again refuse to wear a poppy, should footballers be made too? Personally after reading what James McLean said on the matter I stand with him and fully support him. He is refusing to wear it not because he is disrespectful to the soldiers of WW1 and WW2 but because British soldiers killed his people in his city. Thoughts?

Sent from my F3211 using Tapatalk

Of course they shouldn't. Folk got killed in WW2 fighting for a world where we have the freedom to choose. The nutters that obsess and complain about stuff like this tend to forget that.

[hibsbollah]

Right now I’d rather wear a swastika.
:greengrin
Certainly likely to get the neighbours talking.

[SeanWilson]

Unfortunately Remembrance Day culture has been sabotaged by nativist right wing nationalists, and turned into a glorification of the establishment and the status quo. It’s not a reaction to the horror of war but a celebration of that sort of militarism, imperialism and elitism that makes mass slaughter inevitable. I used to wear a poppy with pride. Right now I’d rather wear a swastika. I appreciate that many people, especially older ones, still see Remembrance Day and the poppy as a more innocent, dignified and benign affair. That’s their right. But mine is to reject this fascist nonsense. Football should stay out this.
Along with the sanctimonious 'look at me' types - this is exactly what it's become.

[Eyrie]

I wonder what the Germans (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41914544) make of poppies?

[Lancs Harp]

I wonder what the Germans (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41914544) make of poppies?

I think both England and Germany will be wearing black armbands with a poppy symbol on them.

[Eyrie]

I think both England and Germany will be wearing black armbands with a poppy symbol on them.

Hence the link in my post (which to be fair doesn't show up that clearly).