Votes at 16

[Colr]

I’ve gone on about this before. Dropping the voting age to 16 is policy for every party but the DUP and the Tories.

Now there’s a vote and the old woman who is squatting in number 10 is blocking its progress.

After they screw up Brexit the Conservative’s truly are toast for a generation.

[Colr]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/votes-16-year-olds-just-11462447

The old lady gets her way. B’stards.

[lucky]

100% supportive of this. You can get married, pay taxes and join the army but it’s crazy not to be allowed to vote

[barcahibs]

I work with 16 year olds all the time. Some of them are exceptional individuals but I don't trust the vast, vast majority of them to tie their own shoelaces.

There are exceptions, there are a few very switched on kids out there, but not enough to give them all the vote.

They don't have the life experience or the critical thinking skills yet at 16 IMO.

In my experience the difference in maturity between an average 16 year old and an average 18 year old is vast, biologically humans are still developing so fast at these ages that those two years make a huge difference.

[Colr]

I work with 16 year olds all the time. Some of them are exceptional individuals but I don't trust the vast, vast majority of them to tie their own shoelaces.

There are exceptions, there are a few very switched on kids out there, but not enough to give them all the vote.

They don't have the life experience or the critical thinking skills yet at 16 IMO.

In my experience the difference in maturity between an average 16 year old and an average 18 year old is vast, biologically humans are still developing so fast at these ages that those two years make a huge difference.

Maybe we could have an age limit then ‘cos half the oldies I meet are thick as pig **** and prejudiced for all their so called experience!

[steakbake]

Maybe we could have an age limit then ‘cos half the oldies I meet are thick as pig **** and prejudiced for all their so called experience!

Totally agree. Some of the folks that pass for adults are nothing short of worrying. Bags of this amazing life experience stuff which passes as a qualification, but **** all to show for it in terms of what they've learned.

If 16 year olds have an opinion and want to be part of a participatory democracy, they should be. The ones who are ********s probably wouldn't even be interested.

[speedy_gonzales]

100% supportive of this. You can get married, pay taxes and join the army but it’s crazy not to be allowed to vote
Only in Scotland can you get married, you also need parents permission to join the army before 18,,,,

[barcahibs]

The fact some adults can't be trusted either is an argument for restricting the franchise not expanding it.

It's just nature. It's too hit and miss at that age whether kids have biologically, emotionally and psychologically matured enough to be responsible for their vote.

My experience tells me the majority haven't.

I'd also agree they shouldn't be taxed as an adult while they can't vote mind you.

TBH I'd be looking more at restricting the vote than expanding it. I probably shouldn't have been allowed to vote in the EU referendum for example. I voted remain but i could certainly have put more thought into it and i was aware there were decent arguments for leave, i just never had time to really dig about at it.

[Glory Lurker]

16 year olds should have the vote. End of.

[Future17]

Only in Scotland can you get married, you also need parents permission to join the army before 18,,,,

Which doesn't change the fact it's true.

[lord bunberry]

I work with 16 year olds all the time. Some of them are exceptional individuals but I don't trust the vast, vast majority of them to tie their own shoelaces.

There are exceptions, there are a few very switched on kids out there, but not enough to give them all the vote.

They don't have the life experience or the critical thinking skills yet at 16 IMO.

In my experience the difference in maturity between an average 16 year old and an average 18 year old is vast, biologically humans are still developing so fast at these ages that those two years make a huge difference.

My dad votes labour no matter what, he’s 73. Age doesn’t always bring wisdom. I’d much rather 16 year old voting as they’d be more likely to consider the options available to them.

[barcahibs]

My dad votes labour no matter what, he’s 73. Age doesn’t always bring wisdom. I’d much rather 16 year old voting as they’d be more likely to consider the options available to them.

Again, that's an argument for restricting the franchise not extending it.

And children and young people are notorious for not considering the future and the consequences of their actions. It's one of the things that gets them into the most trouble - and its something that most (stress most, not all) grow out of with age.

[Just Alf]

Thing is, with regards to the youngsters... In the main, I'd imagine it's only the ones that have thought about it that will be bothered to vote the rest will stay in bed etc.....

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[ACLeith]

Maybe we could have an age limit then ‘cos half the oldies I meet are thick as pig **** and prejudiced for all their so called experience!

Oi! What age are you thinking of? (Careful what you say!!)

[heretoday]

I don't see why they shouldn't have the vote. Half of them won't get their heads out of their mobile screens long enough to get to the polls anyway so it won't make much difference.

[lord bunberry]

Again, that's an argument for restricting the franchise not extending it.

And children and young people are notorious for not considering the future and the consequences of their actions. It's one of the things that gets them into the most trouble - and its something that most (stress most, not all) grow out of with age.

Their opinion is just as valid as someone my dads age. The young are more informed than ever before and what happens politically has more impact on them. The right to decide our future should be in the hands of those who have to live with the consequences.

[lord bunberry]

I don't see why they shouldn't have the vote. Half of them won't get their heads out of their mobile screens long enough to get to the polls anyway so it won't make much difference.

I hope that’s a joke.

[danhibees1875]

I hope that’s a joke.

Do you think it's more than half? :wink:

[lord bunberry]

Do you think it's more than half? :wink:

Yes I thinks it’s at least 52%

[barcahibs]

Their opinion is just as valid as someone my dads age. The young are more informed than ever before and what happens politically has more impact on them. The right to decide our future should be in the hands of those who have to live with the consequences.

But it isn't, because they biologically haven't had time to mature to a point where that's true. In my experience most (emphasis most) kids of that age still see the world in very black and white terms and really don't consider long term implications at all. They're also pretty easily swayed and tend not to have learned to think critically about the information they recieve.

Part of that could be an education issue - critical thinking is something that schools need to think harder about imo. Kids should also be taught a lot more about modern politics and citizens rights and responsibilities.

Again you might want to restrict people like your dad's vote but that's a different argument.

The majority of kids that age just aren't mature enough to make decisions of that potential import. I'm aware that's unfair on the few who are ready - and there are a few - but that's life. Their time will come.

[lord bunberry]

But it isn't, because they biologically haven't had time to mature to a point where that's true. In my experience most (emphasis most) kids of that age still see the world in very black and white terms and really don't consider long term implications at all. They're also pretty easily swayed and tend not to have learned to think critically about the information they recieve.

Part of that could be an education issue - critical thinking is something that schools need to think harder about imo. Kids should also be taught a lot more about modern politics and citizens rights and responsibilities.

Again you might want to restrict people like your dad's vote but that's a different argument.

The majority of kids that age just aren't mature enough to make decisions of that potential import. I'm aware that's unfair on the few who are ready - and there are a few - but that's life. Their time will come.
I would disagree strongly with that. Surely most people will see voting as a black and white decision based on their political views. Why should any member of society be excluded from expressing their opinion at the ballot box. If you’re considered an adult in the eyes of the law, then you must have the right to influence the decisions that are relevant to your way of life. I understand that in England you’re not considered to be an adult until you’re 18, but that’s not the case in Scotland.

[Onceinawhile]

100% supportive of this. You can get married, pay taxes and join the army but it’s crazy not to be allowed to vote

You can pay taxes at any age if you earn enough. I wouldn't be giving a 5 year old the vote though.

[Hibrandenburg]

Oi! What age are you thinking of? (Careful what you say!!)

I think a minimum IQ would be better than an age limit.

[johnbc70]

Sitting on the bus to work each morning I hear what the kids that age speak about and discuss, appreciate it's not totally representative and there are some sensible kids out there but they sprout a load of nonsense and have no idea what happens in the real world. 18 is about right.

I am sure if anyone here spent a few hours in the company of your average 16 yr old then they would soon agree they should not have the vote.

[Speedy]

Sitting on the bus to work each morning I hear what the kids that age speak about and discuss, appreciate it's not totally representative and there are some sensible kids out there but they sprout a load of nonsense and have no idea what happens in the real world. 18 is about right.

I am sure if anyone here spent a few hours in the company of your average 16 yr old then they would soon agree they should not have the vote.

Your average 16 year old wouldn't vote.

Those that would vote would have as much clue as your average voter.

[grunt]

Should these people be allowed to vote?


https://youtu.be/EqDGF4pSd_s

[MyJo]

If the goverment is allowed to charge someone tax then that person has every right to have a say on the make-up of that government.

[CropleyWasGod]

If the goverment is allowed to charge someone tax then that person has every right to have a say on the make-up of that government.

The tax question is a bit of a red herring.

1. Age is not a barrier to paying tax. A 5 year old, or younger, can pay direct tax if they have enough income. Many children also pay indirect tax.

2. At the other end of the scale, many pensioners don't pay direct tax. Should they be prevented from voting?

3. And the Queen pays income tax on part of her income. Should she have a vote?

Fwiw, I am in favour of allowing 16 year olds to vote. If the law sees them responsible enough to work full time, have sex, get married and have a family, then they are responsible enough to have a say on who makes those decisions for them.

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[Jay]

I was a bit dubious about my 16 year old being able to vote but he was way more equipped than most older people on the day. At school there were many debates between friends and in a few classes around the politics at the time as well as discussions between his brothers at home. They are the future and imo now they should be able to vote

[Future17]

And the Queen pays income tax on part of her income. Should she have a vote?

The Queen is allowed to vote. It's only by convention that she does not do so...as far as we know.

[CropleyWasGod]

The Queen is allowed to vote. It's only by convention that she does not do so...as far as we know.I didn't know that. Cheers. ( ticks the box that says "learn something new every day")

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[Future17]

I didn't know that. Cheers. ( ticks the box that says "learn something new every day")

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I still think she does it by post. ;-)

[Scouse Hibee]

Only in Scotland can you get married, you also need parents permission to join the army before 18,,,,

You can get married in England at 16 with parental consent.

[Sir David Gray]

If 16 year olds are, by and large, not ready to be given the responsibility of voting, surely questions should be asked about whether or not they are ready to have other responsibilities that they already do have.

Should they be allowed to have children, should they be allowed to have jobs and should they be allowed to get married?

If the answer to those questions is yes then they absolutely must get the vote. You cannot have someone who is the parent of a 1 year old child, who is working and also married but then tell them they can't have a say in the running of the country.

It's absurd.

Maybe the answers should be no though and these other issues should be looked at.

[speedy_gonzales]

If 16 year olds are, by and large, not ready to be given the responsibility of voting, surely questions should be asked about whether or not they are ready to have other responsibilities that they already do have.

Should they be allowed to have children, should they be allowed to have jobs and should they be allowed to get married?

If the answer to those questions is yes then they absolutely must get the vote. You cannot have someone who is the parent of a 1 year old child, who is working and also married but then tell them they can't have a say in the running of the country.

It's absurd.

Maybe the answers should be no though and these other issues should be looked at.
I was surprised to read that under 18's weren't allowed to work full-time unless this was part of some sort of apprenticeship including working towards a qualification.
I'm sure most of my mates that dropped out at 16 went straight in to full time employment at the age of 16 back in 1992. Some were indeed apprenticeships but some were the average shelf stacking jobs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41831036

Edited to add the BBC link and to acknowledge that there is yet again geographical differences within this small island.

[Future17]

Should they be allowed to have children, should they be allowed to have jobs and should they be allowed to get married?

I'm assuming you mean "allowed to have sex" rather than "allowed to have children"?

[OsloHibs]

I think 16 is too young.

[Sir David Gray]

I'm assuming you mean "allowed to have sex" rather than "allowed to have children"?

Yes of course but surely that goes without saying?

[Swedish hibee]

I wouldn't lower it. 18 is right for me.

[Future17]

Yes of course but surely that goes without saying?

Fair enough, but when the discussion is essentially people with certain rights deciding who else should have them and why, I think it's important to be clear.