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Hibernia&Alba
03-11-2017, 07:20 PM
The Evra thread got me thinking about clubs that are famous/infamous for the political inclinations of their support. It isn't something we see much in Britain; though if course we have some religious divide in the game, sadly.

Famously left wing supports - Marseille, Livorno, AEK Athens, St Pauli.

Right wing - Lazio, Roma, Inter, Hamburg, Zenit St Peterburg; The Rangers, definitely The Rangers.

Which other clubs are known for their strong political outlook?

-Jonesy-
03-11-2017, 07:26 PM
Celtic fans campaign for all that is right and just in society, best fans in the world don't you know?

Hibernia&Alba
03-11-2017, 07:27 PM
Celtic fans campaign for all that is right and just in society, best fans in the world don't you know?

I would put Celtic on the left, aye. They have a strong relationship with St Pauli; I'm sure they used to sell St Pauli gear in their club shop.

Keith_M
03-11-2017, 07:35 PM
Some Celtc Fans claim to be left wing, but their actual politics only extend to bringing up past grievances and trying to link them to genuine causes, e.g. Palestine, to give some sense of legitimacy.

Bostonhibby
03-11-2017, 07:37 PM
Some Celtc Fans claim to be left wing, but their actual politics only extend to bringing up past grievances and trying to link them to genuine causes, e.g. Palestine, to give some sense of legitimacy.Nail hammer, heid.

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Ryan91
03-11-2017, 07:39 PM
The Evra thread got me thinking about clubs that are famous/infamous for the political inclinations of their support. It isn't something we see much in Britain; though if course we have some religious divide in the game, sadly.

Famously left wing supports - Marseille, Livorno, AEK Athens, St Pauli.

Right wing - Lazio, Roma, Inter, Hamburg, Zenit St Peterburg; The Rangers, definitely The Rangers.

Which other clubs are known for their strong political outlook?

I thought Roma were the left leaning club in Rome and Lazio were traditionally right wing.

FWIW I'd think of Hibs fans as tending to be more left leaning, more of a "left-but-not-a-dick-about-it" outlook though compared to that of say, Celtic.

Lancs Harp
03-11-2017, 07:42 PM
What best describes Hibs? ....... Bohemian?

AltheHibby
03-11-2017, 07:43 PM
What best describes Hibs? ....... Bohemian?

Green, surely?

Hibernia&Alba
03-11-2017, 07:44 PM
I thought Roma were the left leaning club in Rome and Lazio were traditionally right wing.

From what I've read, the Roma ultras are also a right wing group, though perhaps not as hard right as Lazio.

Am I right that Atalanta and Bologna are traditionally left wing in their support - anyone?

Hibernia&Alba
03-11-2017, 07:45 PM
What best describes Hibs? ....... Bohemian?

Inclusive but apolitical, IMO. Many views amongst supporters just on this forum.

Hibernia&Alba
03-11-2017, 07:48 PM
What about the likes of Chelsea, Millwall, West Ham, Leeds. The hooligan element certainly have some far right tendencies, but is that a reflection of a wider culture? I don't think it's nearly as significant as some countries clubs on the continent.

frazeHFC
03-11-2017, 07:48 PM
Most Russian clubs, particularly Zenit, are heavily right wing.

Just realised Zenit were mentioned in the OP actually.

Lancs Harp
03-11-2017, 07:53 PM
What about the likes of Chelsea, Millwall, West Ham, Leeds. The hooligan element certainly have some far right tendencies, but is that a reflection of a wider culture? I don't think it's nearly as significant as some countries clubs on the continent.

Back in the day I think Chelsea certainly had a right wing element. Their right wing element these days is Tory right due the amount of accountants and such like that follow or can afford to follow the club.

I dont think anything like big numbers of West Ham, Millwall or Leeds fans are right wing, all three clubs coming from traditionally working class areas with working class backgrounds..

givescotlandfreedom
03-11-2017, 07:57 PM
I've always thought perceived Liverpool and Hibs fans as being mostly libertarian left types whilst Hearts are a stuffy right wing club trying to cling onto the coat tails of an establishment that thinks they are trash.

Hibernia&Alba
03-11-2017, 07:58 PM
Linfield :lolrangers:

A tad to the right

Hibrandenburg
03-11-2017, 07:59 PM
The Evra thread got me thinking about clubs that are famous/infamous for the political inclinations of their support. It isn't something we see much in Britain; though if course we have some religious divide in the game, sadly.

Famously left wing supports - Marseille, Livorno, AEK Athens, St Pauli.

Right wing - Lazio, Roma, Inter, Hamburg, Zenit St Peterburg; The Rangers, definitely The Rangers.

Which other clubs are known for their strong political outlook?

Think that's a bit unfair on HSV. I think they're just a run of the mill club and the fact that they share a city with St Pauli might make them look right wing in comparison.

Hibernia&Alba
03-11-2017, 08:01 PM
Think that's a bit unfair on HSV. I think they're just a run of the mill club and the fact that they share a city with St Pauli might make them look right wing in comparison.

:cb

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BNOpy5pCYAEbRcV.jpg

Bostonhibby
03-11-2017, 08:09 PM
Back in the day I think Chelsea certainly had a right wing element. Their right wing element these days is Tory right due the amount of accountants and such like that follow or can afford to follow the club.

I dont think anything like big numbers of West Ham, Millwall or Leeds fans are right wing, all three clubs coming from traditionally working class areas with working class backgrounds..

Agree re Chelsea. Plenty old original "boot boy" types - I know one.

The mix down there now crosses the whole spectrum, definitely a few rich professionals in their gang now. West ham are to the left of chelski I'd say but they've got their loonies. Millwall are just loonies. Working class background is a good starting point. More interested in being hard cases than any particular political leaning and they're quite good at it[emoji6] interesting day out as a neutral.

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JeMeSouviens
03-11-2017, 08:11 PM
From what I've read, the Roma ultras are also a right wing group, though perhaps not as hard right as Lazio.

Am I right that Atalanta and Bologna are traditionally left wing in their support - anyone?

Bologna definitely, the city is known as a communist stronghold.

What about Boca - left, River Plate - right?

Vini1875
03-11-2017, 08:17 PM
I would have said that most clubs fans would have been Labour voting industrial worker types with a couple of notable exceptions. So Scottish clubs would be mainly left, but hard to say with devolution and the demise of Scottsih Labour. The huns I would say are right wing and hearts I would say vote whatever people who want to live in bungalows, drive Honda Civics and resent charities vote.

Hibs I would say are leftish, yes voters, but would probably rather have a beer.

Del Boy
03-11-2017, 08:20 PM
Atalanta in Italy are seen as a left wing club

Both Roma and Lazio are right wing

Hibernia&Alba
03-11-2017, 08:20 PM
We should bear in mind that being working class doesn't necessarily equate to being left wing. The BNP don't get their support in the leafy suburbs; it's east London and Lancashire where they have traditionally done best.

Hibernia&Alba
03-11-2017, 08:22 PM
Atalanta in Italy are seen as a left wing club

Both Roma and Lazio are right wing

If I'm watching an Italian game, I like to see the right wingers pumped, especially the abomination that is Lazio :agree:

Lancs Harp
03-11-2017, 08:26 PM
We should bear in mind that being working class doesn't necessarily equate to being left wing. The BNP don't get their support in the leafy suburbs; it's east London and Lancashire where they have traditionally done best.

Thats true but speaking generally working class equates to left wing, you only have to look a political map of Britain in to see that. Having said that its a bit simplistic to pigeon hole the entire population.

WoreTheGreen
03-11-2017, 08:26 PM
Green, surely?

For me scottish cup winners 2016

Hibrandenburg
03-11-2017, 08:29 PM
:cb

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BNOpy5pCYAEbRcV.jpg

Winding up Celtic fans who are strong supporters of their local rivals. Misguided Yes, do they have an inherent right wing fan base No. As a Werder fan I find myself in a very strange position defending HSV. :greengrin

MKHIBEE
03-11-2017, 08:29 PM
Vfl Bochum definitely have a significant right wing presence in their support.

Hibernia&Alba
03-11-2017, 08:30 PM
Another wee bias I have is wanting teams that play in green to do well: Plymouth, St Etienne, Wolfsburg, Werder Bremen, Yeovil. Not Celtic, though I will gladly support them against Rangers or Hearts.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
03-11-2017, 08:32 PM
I thought Roma were the left leaning club in Rome and Lazio were traditionally right wing.

FWIW I'd think of Hibs fans as tending to be more left leaning, more of a "left-but-not-a-dick-about-it" outlook though compared to that of say, Celtic.

I think Roma were traditionally the left wing club in Rome - i jabe a vague memory of seeing roma hammer and sickle graffitti in rome.

But i believe they habe become much more fascist is recent yeats.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
03-11-2017, 08:34 PM
Thats true but speaking generally working class equates to left wing, you only have to look a political map of Britain in to see that. Having said that its a bit simplistic to pigeon hole the entire population.

I think in british fitba terms, left and right arr a bit meaningless. Its probably more akin to cosmopolitan/ bohemian type ethos and an angry working class hate everyond who doesnt drink in your local type ethos.

Bostonhibby
03-11-2017, 08:37 PM
Another wee bias I have is wanting teams that play in green to do well: Plymouth, St Etienne, Wolfsburg, Werder Bremen, Yeovil. Not Celtic, though I will gladly support them against Rangers or Hearts.Me too. Bradford Park Avenue as well[emoji6]

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Iggy Pope
03-11-2017, 08:43 PM
Agree re Chelsea. Plenty old original "boot boy" types - I know one.

The mix down there now crosses the whole spectrum, definitely a few rich professionals in their gang now. West ham are to the left of chelski I'd say but they've got their loonies. Millwall are just loonies. Working class background is a good starting point. More interested in being hard cases than any particular political leaning and they're quite good at it[emoji6] interesting day out as a neutral.

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Agree. I went to Millwall v Stockport a few years back and although it was a sparse attendance they were the noisiest nut cases I'd encountered anywhere. And working class they might be, but the Isle of Dogs is well named. They hate every ****er.

Hibernia&Alba
03-11-2017, 08:44 PM
Me too. Bradford Park Avenue as well[emoji6]

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Panathinaikos

Bostonhibby
03-11-2017, 08:46 PM
Agree. I went to Millwall v Stockport a few years back and although it was a sparse attendance they were the noisiest nut cases I'd encountered anywhere. And working class they might be, but the Isle of Dogs is well named. They hate every ****er.Aye, absolutely nae prejudices!!

I went with a couple of Norwich fans some years ago, incognito. Actually okay in the ground but the pubs were something else.

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Bostonhibby
03-11-2017, 08:47 PM
PanathinaikosMexico.

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Lancs Harp
03-11-2017, 08:48 PM
if its become a team in green thread then I'll go Tampa Bay Rowdies.

Iggy Pope
03-11-2017, 08:50 PM
Another wee bias I have is wanting teams that play in green to do well: Plymouth, St Etienne, Wolfsburg, Werder Bremen, Yeovil. Not Celtic, though I will gladly support them against Rangers or Hearts.

The Green Brotherhood which had links with Hibbies and Groningen (and GAIS) was a wee focal point for a while. Maybe some of those boys still link.
Some time back, I mentioned the Wolfsburg and Werder thing to a Berliner mate, (very good Hibby by the way, Berlin Hibs flag present at the semi), and as Hertha is his team he was most upset. **** Celtic he said to me. Hard to debate!

HFCdeb
03-11-2017, 08:50 PM
If I'm watching an Italian game, I like to see the right wingers pumped, especially the abomination that is Lazio :agree:

Same. Especially after this shocker

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-italy-soccer-antisemitism/italy-investigates-anti-semitic-anne-frank-stickers-at-stadium-idUKKBN1CS2IV

nonshinyfinish
03-11-2017, 08:52 PM
Rayo Vallecano are famously left wing.

MKHIBEE
03-11-2017, 09:04 PM
Rayo Vallecano are famously left wing.
Didnt one of their fanzines or some such like write a piece comparing them to Hibs?

NOLA
03-11-2017, 09:05 PM
Feynoord Rotterdam right wing Atletico Madrid right wing


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Hibernia&Alba
03-11-2017, 09:16 PM
Beitar Jerusalem, a far right Israeli club, supported by Benjamin Netanyahu - there's a surprise. Fans went berserk when they signed a couple of Israeli Arabs.

Renfrew_Hibby
03-11-2017, 09:17 PM
Universidad de Chile v Colo Colo is right v left

Nameless
03-11-2017, 09:17 PM
I'm sure I read that Dynamo Berlin and Dynamo Dresden have strong right wing factions in their support. From visiting Poznan last year, I can attest to Lech's fascist leanings too.

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Renfrew_Hibby
03-11-2017, 09:19 PM
What about the holy goalies club, Legia Warsaw? Right wingers?

Lancs Harp
03-11-2017, 09:21 PM
As alluded to in a few posts, Lazio have a very right wing reputation, I believe they were the club that Mussolini himself supported back in the day.

Hillsidehibby
03-11-2017, 09:22 PM
Gordon Smith's pub was called The Right Wing. Never had him as a fascist to be honest.

Hibernia&Alba
03-11-2017, 09:27 PM
As alluded to in a few posts, Lazio have a very right wing reputation, I believe they were the club that Mussolini himself supported back in the day.

Yes, Mussolini was a Lazio fan, and you'd think he was still around when you look at that mob. Some of their banners and chants down the years are off the scale of what's acceptable: anti-Semitism, anti-immigrant. Di Canio's Nazi salute etc.

Lancs Harp
03-11-2017, 09:31 PM
Gordon Smith's pub was called The Right Wing. Never had him as a fascist to be honest.

By life is "blighted" with the worlds best right wingers, Gordon at Hibs and Sir Stanley at Blackpool. Gordon Smith by all accounts was quite useful with his left peg too though. I never got the pleasure of seeing either (him and Matthews).

Hibrandenburg
03-11-2017, 09:34 PM
I'm sure I read that Dynamo Berlin and Dynamo Dresden have strong right wing factions in their support. From visiting Poznan last year, I can attest to Lech's fascist leanings too.

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Dynamo Berlin definitely.

fat freddy
03-11-2017, 09:40 PM
Barcelona & Real Madrid are surely the most obvious names with links to the left & right.

Hibernia&Alba
03-11-2017, 09:43 PM
Barcelona & Real Madrid are surely the most obvious names with links to the left & right.

I think it's a more complex story than meets the eye, with both clubs down the years having prominent people on both sides. The Spanish Civil War was a classic case of a conflict which divided families and friends. These days Barcelona are certainly clearly defined as a club on the left. I'm not sure what Real Madrid's affiliation sways towards.

Keith_M
03-11-2017, 09:47 PM
Be interesting to know who was responsible for THIS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_5nYwEvLa0)

Hillsidehibby
03-11-2017, 09:47 PM
Barcelona & Real Madrid are surely the most obvious names with links to the left & right.

Not so sure. Barcelona: wait a minute, were doing better than them, lets **** off. Madrid: Nah your staying with us whether you like it or not.

Classic Communist Russia if you ask me.

Lancs Harp
03-11-2017, 09:48 PM
Barcelona & Real Madrid are surely the most obvious names with links to the left & right.

Im not sure I would equate being very pro Catalonia and very pro Spain as necessarily being left wing or right wing. Spain has returned socialist governments. Real support might be overwhelmingly pro Spain but im not sure that means its particuarly right wing.

Renfrew_Hibby
03-11-2017, 09:52 PM
In the 70s and 80s, before the days of football tourism and galacticos, Barca had a notorious fans group who were very much to the right. The club forcibly marginalized them to the point they were totally squeezed out.

Barca were formed by a Swiss businessman and his middle class friends... Real Madrid were formed by working class Catalan brothers who had gone to Spain looking for work!

jgl07
03-11-2017, 09:52 PM
The Evra thread got me thinking about clubs that are famous/infamous for the political inclinations of their support. It isn't something we see much in Britain; though if course we have some religious divide in the game, sadly.

Famously left wing supports - Marseille, Livorno, AEK Athens, St Pauli.

Right wing - Lazio, Roma, Inter, Hamburg, Zenit St Peterburg; The Rangers, definitely The Rangers.

Which other clubs are known for their strong political outlook?

Real Madrid were Franco’s team and surely tend to the Right. I think that Atletico’s support base tended to be Socialist although the club was owned for many years by Jesus Gill a noted neo-fascist. Having watched a few televised matches at the home of Rayo Vallecano, the number of hammer and sickle flags in evidence from the flats outside the stadium suggests that they may have some Communist support.

I heard that TSV 1860 Munich enjoy a similar counter culture support to St Pauli while Bayern Munich are very much the establishment club with many leading players and officials openly supporting the CSU (when they managed to stay out of jail!).

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
03-11-2017, 09:56 PM
I think it's a more complex story than meets the eye, with both clubs down the years having prominent people on both sides. The Spanish Civil War was a classic case of a conflict which divided families and friends. These days Barcelona are certainly clearly defined as a club on the left. I'm not sure what Real Madrid's affiliation sways towards.

Barcelona are left wing? Im not so sure about that. Catalan nationalists sure, but i dont believe they are left wing?

Renfrew_Hibby
03-11-2017, 09:59 PM
Surely Sevilla has to be the club of the people

Hillsidehibby
03-11-2017, 10:04 PM
Surely Sevilla has to be the club of the people

What people.... The Ottomans?

Lancs Harp
03-11-2017, 10:07 PM
Im pretty sure The true blues v the dirty yellows in bedknobs and broomsticks had some sort of political overture about it. I remember worrying about it as a 7 year old. It ruined my enjoyment of the film. :wink:

Hibernia&Alba
03-11-2017, 10:08 PM
Barcelona are left wing? Im not so sure about that. Catalan nationalists sure, but i dont believe they are left wing?

Aren't the political parties of Catalan independence left of centre? Barcelona as a city has a strong artistic and bohemian history which goes against the grain of the more socially conservative and Catholic mainstream.

Pretty Boy
03-11-2017, 10:08 PM
Rayo Vallecano are traditionally more left wing than either of their Madrid neighbours, Real were favoured by Franco whilst Atletico had a military involvement in the 40s that attracted a right wing element.

In Israel Hapoel Tel Aviv were/are linked to the trade unions and come from one of the countries more liberal cities.

In Turkey Beskitas are viewed as the most left leaning of the traditional big 3 teams.

Lancs Harp
03-11-2017, 10:13 PM
Rayo Vallecano are traditionally more left wing than either of their Madrid neighbours, Real were favoured by Franco whilst Atletico had a military involvement in the 40s that attracted a right wing element.

In Israel Hapoel Tel Aviv were/are linked to the trade unions and come from one of the countries more liberal cities.

In Turkey Beskitas are viewed as the most left leaning of the traditional big 3 teams.

With respect PB that was a long long time ago. Is politics in the UK the same now as it was 70 years ago? It might be akin to a message board discussion in some foreign land about Hibs being an Irish nationalist club.

hibbyfraelibby
03-11-2017, 10:16 PM
Left Wing? Right Wing? Does it matter as long as the wingers can cross the ball into the box for the Centre to score?

Pretty Boy
03-11-2017, 10:19 PM
Aren't the political parties of Catalan independence left of centre? Barcelona as a city has a strong artistic and bohemian history which goes against the grain of the more socially conservative and Catholic mainstream.

The independence movement in Catalonia is a 'big tent'.

The minority ruling Junts Pel Si is made up of the Democratic Convergence of Catalonia which is, for the most part, centre right, the Republican Left of Catalonia (no explanation required), the Democrats of Catalonia (centre right) and the MES or Left Movement along with various individuals with diverse views.

Podemos, a new left wing party, stood with a green and new left moment at the last election but polled poorly and finished behind the centrist, and anti independence, Citizens party.

Both the PSC (left wing) and PPC (right wing) continue to decline in both elections and polls.

Pretty Boy
03-11-2017, 10:26 PM
With respect PB that was a long long time ago. Is politics in the UK the same now as it was 70 years ago? It might be akin to a message board discussion in some foreign land about Hibs being an Irish nationalist club.

Of course. I did qualify by saying 'traditionally'.

In saying that the Ultra Sur of Real Madrid are, by most definitions, a pretty hardline right wing group. Equally the Frente Atletico Ultras saw Ateltico fined a couple of seasons back for making fascist salutes at games against Both Barcelona and Athletic Bilbao. They have quite a nasty nationalist element amongst them.

Quite a good article about the Madrid clubs from FourFourtwo below:

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/why-everything-you-know-about-madrid-derby-might-be-wrong

Lancs Harp
03-11-2017, 10:30 PM
Of course. I did qualify by saying 'traditionally'.

In saying that the Ultra Sur of Real Madrid are, by most definitions, a pretty hardline right wing group. Equally the Frente Atletico Ultras saw Ateltico fined a couple of seasons back for making fascist state salutes at games against Both Barcelona and Athletic Bilbao. They have quite a nasty nationalist element amongst them.

Quite a good article about the Madrid clubs from FourFourtwo below:

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/why-everything-you-know-about-madrid-derby-might-be-wrong

Fair enough but does being nationalist necessarily mean being right wing? Are the SNP or Plaid Cymru right wing?

Colr
03-11-2017, 10:37 PM
Hearts = Monster Raving Loony

JeMeSouviens
03-11-2017, 10:43 PM
The independence movement in Catalonia is a 'big tent'.

The minority ruling Junts Pel Si is made up of the Democratic Convergence of Catalonia which is, for the most part, centre right, the Republican Left of Catalonia (no explanation required), the Democrats of Catalonia (centre right) and the MES or Left Movement along with various individuals with diverse views.

Podemos, a new left wing party, stood with a green and new left moment at the last election but polled poorly and finished behind the centrist, and anti independence, Citizens party.

Both the PSC (left wing) and PPC (right wing) continue to decline in both elections and polls.

You missed out the CUP, hard left, anti-EU and independentista. They get about 10% of the vote in Catalonia.

Pretty Boy
03-11-2017, 10:43 PM
Fair enough but does being nationalist necessarily mean being right wing? Are the SNP or Plaid Cymru right wing?

Do groups of their supporters make fascists salutes at rivals?

I'm not anti Atletico but their prominent ultras group has issues with people using fascist salutes and iconography and chanting racial slurs.

Moving on I remember being a bit confused by the football rivalry in Kraków. Wisla Kraków were for many years owned, funded and controlled by the Communist Police yet when I went to one of their games they displayed banners declaring support for Lazio and had anti Semitic banners aimed at fans of Cracovia, who are traditionally seen as the Jewish team in Kraków. I'm still a bit confused by the whole thing now tbh.

Firestarter
03-11-2017, 10:44 PM
Millwall v Tranmere has to be the radgest match ever beeen to. That was separate wing.

Tornadoes70
03-11-2017, 10:50 PM
Hearts = Monster Raving Loony

:faf:

And that's their more moderate section.

:giruy2:

Lancs Harp
03-11-2017, 10:54 PM
Do groups of their supporters make fascists salutes at rivals?

I'm not anti Atletico but their prominent ultras group has issues with people using fascist salutes and iconography and chanting racial slurs.

Moving on I remember being a bit confused by the football rivalry in Kraków. Wisla Kraków were for many years owned, funded and controlled by the Communist Police yet when I went to one of their games and they displayed banners declaring support for Lazio and had anti Semitic banners aimed at fans of Cracovia, who are traditionally seen as the Jewish team in Kraków. I'm still a bit confused by the whole thing now tbh.

A number of years ago I followed England to Poland for a world cup qualifier. We gambled the match would be in Warsaw and booked up accordingly. The match was actually in Krakow. The tour company put 3 buses on for us "Warsaw based" England fans to get down to Krakow on the day of the match (had a great time in Warsaw btw preceding). Close the ground they advised we took out flags out of the windows and we did accordingly. As crowds got bigger and bigger close to the stadium our coaches started getting a bit of stick, we couldnt work out why as we had taken our flags down as advised and most of the curtains on the coaches drawn. Bricks started bouncing off the buses and for a while it was quite interesting. It was only later we discovered our coaches were being attacked not because we were England fans but because we had come from Warsaw and of course our coaches had Warsaw telephone numbers etc displayed on the rear and sides of the coaches!!

Hillsidehibby
03-11-2017, 11:22 PM
If you have ever travelled from Krakow to Auswich/Birkenau and seen the anti jewish graffiti on the way then nothing makes sense in this world.

DH1875
03-11-2017, 11:30 PM
No idea about right or left wing but pretty sure Roma have Jewish connections so doubt they are anything to do with right wing. Also as pointed out in the thread, Atletico Madrid might be considered left wing but their ultras are more anti Barcelona than the Ultras Sur of Real and will often join up with Real against Barca.

The Pointer
03-11-2017, 11:31 PM
What best describes Hibs? ....... Bohemian?

This says it for me. Not left, not right just.....culturally different. A politician once made a comment about Hibs being a team of poets and philosophers from the sunny uplands of of Leith and I believed him. I think there's a cultural angst amongst the Hibs' support.

Hibernia&Alba
03-11-2017, 11:32 PM
No idea about right or left wing but pretty sure Roma have Jewish connections so doubt they are anything to do with right wing. Also as pointed out in the thread, Atletico Madrid might be considered left wing but their ultras are more anti Barcelona than the Ultras Sur of Real and will often join up with Real against Barca.

Roma had (not sure if they still do) a sizeable Jewish support, hence some of the outrageous banners of Lazio fans in Rome derbies. However, the Roma ultras group is also right wing itself, from what I've read.

Pete
03-11-2017, 11:34 PM
Man City = Left wing good guys

Man Utd = Right wing nutters. Avoid.

Hibernia&Alba
04-11-2017, 12:03 AM
Man City = Left wing good guys

Man Utd = Right wing nutters. Avoid.

So true


https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.FL2T6rzs-bKJrMhxqaQ0zwEsDA&pid=15.1

Pete
04-11-2017, 12:18 AM
So true


https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.FL2T6rzs-bKJrMhxqaQ0zwEsDA&pid=15.1

Fake news. 😝

NAE NOOKIE
04-11-2017, 12:25 AM
This says it for me. Not left, not right just.....culturally different. A politician once made a comment about Hibs being a team of poets and philosophers from the sunny uplands of of Leith and I believed him. I think there's a cultural angst amongst the Hibs' support.

Probably pretty accurate ... I don't think you could label Hibs fans as massively political, though if pushed I would say we definitely lean to the left of centre insomuch as if a left wing group were going to be trying to recruit outside ER it probably wouldn't cause much reaction, whereas a right wing group trying the same would get short shrift.

As usual the only barometer is this message board and I would say more posters ( myself included ) who are happy to put their political views out there lean to the left than the right ..... Overall though I think as a support we like to see ourselves as more socially aware than political and the success of the Dnipro charity and the food bank collections reflect that.

jacomo
04-11-2017, 12:41 AM
Back in the day I think Chelsea certainly had a right wing element. Their right wing element these days is Tory right due the amount of accountants and such like that follow or can afford to follow the club.

I dont think anything like big numbers of West Ham, Millwall or Leeds fans are right wing, all three clubs coming from traditionally working class areas with working class backgrounds..


Working class can be right wing, no problem.

Greenfly
04-11-2017, 01:09 AM
Real Madrid were Franco’s team and surely tend to the Right. I think that Atletico’s support base tended to be Socialist although the club was owned for many years by Jesus Gill a noted neo-fascist. Having watched a few televised matches at the home of Rayo Vallecano, the number of hammer and sickle flags in evidence from the flats outside the stadium suggests that they may have some Communist support.

I heard that TSV 1860 Munich enjoy a similar counter culture support to St Pauli while Bayern Munich are very much the establishment club with many leading players and officials openly supporting the CSU (when they managed to stay out of jail!).

I don't think 1860 have quite the left credentials of St. Pauli but it's certainly true that they consider themselves to be the working class team of Munich and always have done with strong historical links to the unions.

Millwall are getting a bit of a hard time from some folk here but I've always been very impressed by them. Despite having some hardcore nutters hanging around, the club have an excellent track record of initiatives to combat racism and nazi views and support the local community of Bermondsey, working through schools, youth clubs etc. They've been doing this for several decades - long before most clubs got going at it and deserve a bit of credit for it.

jgl07
04-11-2017, 01:21 AM
It would be a mistake to draw too many conclusions from the Ultra groups in this context.

Ultra fan groups are generally right wing in Italy and Spain. Roma fans may mock Lazio for having a neo-fascist element in their support but Roma have their share fascist supporters.

It is much the same in England with the EDL being founded by football ‘firms’ from throughout the country although many seem to follow lower league teams.

andybev1
04-11-2017, 01:48 AM
The thing I value most about being a season ticket holder is the fact I can forget about all of the crap that goes on outside of the turnstiles for a couple of hours because there is all the rest of the week for worrying about those kind of things. I kind of see this site like the football ground now that I think about it, with the rest of the net being the other side of the turnstiles - so for me I will give the political type of threads a miss.

IGRIGI
04-11-2017, 02:01 AM
Celtic like to pass themselves off as left wing good guys but with the likes of Jim Murphy and that other warmonger that I forget the name of in amongst their support many of them wouldn't look out of place at Ibrox.

Hibernia&Alba
04-11-2017, 02:15 AM
Celtic like to pass themselves off as left wing good guys but with the likes of Jim Murphy and that other warmonger that I forget the name of in amongst their support many of them wouldn't look out of place at Ibrox.

John Reid.

Hibernia&Alba
04-11-2017, 02:18 AM
Celtic like to pass themselves off as left wing good guys but with the likes of Jim Murphy and that other warmonger that I forget the name of in amongst their support many of them wouldn't look out of place at Ibrox.

That's fair enough. In Britain we don't have the politicisation of football, unlike on the continent, where it's much more overt. Even if a club like Lazio or Zenit St Petersburg were my local club, I couldn't support them because of the political direction of the fan groups.

jgl07
04-11-2017, 02:42 AM
John Reid.

Hibs have Brian Monteith amongst their supporters.

Also remember Tory donor David Rowland, who the Daily Mail described as a Tax exile, 'shady financier'... and a political liability!

Hibernia&Alba
04-11-2017, 02:56 AM
Hibs have Brian Monteith amongst their supporters.

Also remember Tory donor David Rowland, who the Daily Mail described as a Tax exile, 'shady financier'... and a political liability!

That's a Hearts man if ever I heard one :agree:. Perhaps he got lost trying to find Gorgie.

hibsbollah
04-11-2017, 07:14 AM
I've never been to a serie a game, sadly, I'm basing this on two books what I have read (the rough guide to European football and the dark heart of Italy in particular is a great read) but I get the impression the old divide between right and left ultras is disappearing, as most ultra groups are now right wing. Roma is a good example, who now have a fascist following and also Fiorentina who managed to combine the most violent nasty support with a strongly leftish politics in the old days. Milan were also known as a left wing club, but Berlusconi changed all that. Also confusing the story is most big clubs have at least two ultra groups, so you might have had one curva with a right wing following and another with a left wing following!

Bologna were always the communist club. Lazio the choice of the fascists (last week's events at Lazio a reminder that things are only getting worse). I bet renato will know a fair bit as well.

18Hibee75
04-11-2017, 08:28 AM
Beitar Jerusalem, a far right Israeli club, supported by Benjamin Netanyahu - there's a surprise. Fans went berserk when they signed a couple of Israeli Arabs.The most fascist club in the world.

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DH1875
04-11-2017, 08:30 AM
I've never been to a serie a game, sadly, I'm basing this on two books what I have read (the rough guide to European football and the dark heart of Italy in particular is a great read) but I get the impression the old divide between right and left ultras is disappearing, as most ultra groups are now right wing. Roma is a good example, who now have a fascist following and also Fiorentina who managed to combine the most violent nasty support with a strongly leftish politics in the old days. Milan were also known as a left wing club, but Berlusconi changed all that. Also confusing the story is most big clubs have at least two ultra groups, so you might have had one curva with a right wing following and another with a left wing following!

Bologna were always the communist club. Lazio the choice of the fascists (last week's events at Lazio a reminder that things are only getting worse). I bet renato will know a fair bit as well.

Pretty sure Livorno are/were the main communist club. You know me though, that's probably wrong.

hibsbollah
04-11-2017, 08:37 AM
Pretty sure Livorno are/were the main communist club. You know me though, that's probably wrong.

True :agree: although they're just a wee team.

18Hibee75
04-11-2017, 08:38 AM
What are Napoli? Always thought they were right wing?

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The Rebel
04-11-2017, 08:39 AM
It's either just me or it shows how little focus your average fan at a club like Hibs puts on political allegiance within the wider support base, but my immediate thought was that this thread was going to get me in the mood for the game today with thoughts of Boyle on the right wing and Barker on the left.

Hibernia&Alba
04-11-2017, 08:46 AM
The most fascist club in the world.

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And proud of it. They have a banner which says "we are the most racist fans in the world". That's actually true! Nae wonder Netanyahu feels so at home.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
04-11-2017, 08:50 AM
Aren't the political parties of Catalan independence left of centre? Barcelona as a city has a strong artistic and bohemian history which goes against the grain of the more socially conservative and Catholic mainstream.

I dont know enough about that, amd i agree about barcelona but my perception of it was always a bit more bourgeois bohemian than earthy working class - but its jusy my perceptiob.

I believe catalans have a bit of a reputation forbeing socially conservative, industrious and right with money - a bit like scots!

As someone posted above, i think their hooligans (the boixos nois?) were a bit nationalist too?

hibsbollah
04-11-2017, 08:51 AM
PSG right wing. Big skinhead element.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
04-11-2017, 08:56 AM
Fair enough but does being nationalist necessarily mean being right wing? Are the SNP or Plaid Cymru right wing?

I think it highlights the limtations of the right/left axis. Its too simplistic.

The SNP were a traditionally rural, small c conservative bunch of nationalists - in crude terms, fairly 'right'. They have morphed into a more centrist bunch.

However many traditiobal left wing types would say nationalism is not socialist.

And of course, most right wing types are from poor backgrounds.

Its one of the reasons its such a fascinating subjext, its so multi-layered.

What is undeniably true is people that say football amd politics dont mix are just plain wrong.

18Hibee75
04-11-2017, 09:03 AM
And proud of it. They have a banner which says "we are the most racist fans in the world". That's actually true! Nae wonder Netanyahu feels so at home.https://www.theguardian.com/news/video/2015/nov/24/beitar-jerusalem-most-racist-football-team-israel-video
This video is disgusting. The way they treat the two Muslims players at training and leave the stadium because one of them scored is surely something that can't go unpunished.

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Smartie
04-11-2017, 09:07 AM
It's either just me or it shows how little focus your average fan at a club like Hibs puts on political allegiance within the wider support base, but my immediate thought was that this thread was going to get me in the mood for the game today with thoughts of Boyle on the right wing and Barker on the left.

It's the most polarised the Hibs have been since we had Michael O'Neill on the left wing and Kevin McAllister on the right.

I would consider Hibs to be non-political, and that is one of the things I love most about them.

I know for a fact I as a Yes voter in the Independence referendum disagreed with most of the people I go to matches with. It doesn't stop us getting on, and it doesn't get in the way of us supporting our team.

My political I would describe as liberal, a mixture of mainly left but a few right wing beliefs that cancel out somewhere in the middle. There probably isn't anyone alive who shares my exact set of beliefs and politics always seems to me to be "best fit" and tbh it can go almost any way.

I don't like far right nutters mind.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
04-11-2017, 09:09 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/news/video/2015/nov/24/beitar-jerusalem-most-racist-football-team-israel-video
This video is disgusting. The way they treat the two Muslims players at training and leave the stadium because one of them scored is surely something that can't go unpunished.

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Storyville did a brilliant documentary on it on BBC4 - i think its still in IPlayer if folk want to catch it.

There was also a good artixle in the Blizzard about it - one od the ringleaders is now a reformed character and has been shunned by his former comrades.

wpj
04-11-2017, 09:47 AM
Vfl Bochum definitely have a significant right wing presence in their support.

Was at Duisburg train station when Bochum fans turned up for the fixture. Not sure of the politics but it was a mad fight. The police watched then picked up the pieces. I followed Fortuna Düsseldorf who are quite an alternative bunch with close ties to local punk bands and squats in the city, very anti right wing.

Not In The Know
04-11-2017, 09:48 AM
What best describes Hibs? ....... Bohemian?

Used to be called the team of poets.

Mixu62
04-11-2017, 09:49 AM
Read a good book called Us v Them about the fiercest derbies around the world. Think was the Prague one that was one of the most politically divided.

nickwhibs
04-11-2017, 09:58 AM
As others have pointed out, Italian football and politics is a strange one. Clubs often have both left and right wing factions in their ultras groups - with the obvious exceptions. I have an Italian friend who is a big Lazio fan but is pretty left wing in his politics - he obviously hates the right wing element the ultras have there. Palermo are another with a predominantly right wing following. Other more left wing clubs as well as the likes of Livorno and Bologna are Napoli and Genoa. Interestingly Sampdoria ultras think of themselves as apolitical. They actually have a banner translating as ultras without politics, which I think is pretty cool. The rivalry between Genoa and Samp is purely football-related.

Hibrandenburg
04-11-2017, 10:02 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/news/video/2015/nov/24/beitar-jerusalem-most-racist-football-team-israel-video
This video is disgusting. The way they treat the two Muslims players at training and leave the stadium because one of them scored is surely something that can't go unpunished.

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Disturbing. When a race that were victims of one of the most evil acts in history become the perpetrators then history will repeat itself.

Jumbo
04-11-2017, 10:32 AM
PSG right wing. Big skinhead element.

That’s another generalisation, I know plenty on skinheads and they’re all anti racist and more left leaning !

NAE NOOKIE
04-11-2017, 10:35 AM
Hibs have Brian Monteith amongst their supporters.

Also remember Tory donor David Rowland, who the Daily Mail described as a Tax exile, 'shady financier'... and a political liability!

Quite sure Hibs have a decent few Tory minded supporters as any club will, though they will be pretty heavily outnumbered I would imagine ... Leith and North Edinburgh where we draw most of our support from tends to vote for left of centre parties in elections and that has to reflect the attitudes of our support in general.
Certainly our celebrity fan base tends to reflect a nationalist and or left wing bent ... I give you Craig and Charlie Reid, Irvin Welsh, Kezia Dugdale, Iain Gray and the magnificent late Margo McDonald ... none of whom could be described as right wingers :greengrin

As for David Rowland ...... He can be cited in a discussion on what the Hibs as a club or a support are like the way Harold Shipman could be used to judge the average GP's attitude towards their patients. In fact I think you have to qualify as a human being in order to be a Hibby and I doubt David Rowland makes the cut.

Mr Grieves
04-11-2017, 11:03 AM
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/uncivil-war-why-partizan-belgrade-vs-red-star-more-game

Partizan Belgrade and Red Star Belgrade have an interesting political history. I think there's a few teams from the former Yugoslavia that have either nationalist or federalist ultra groups.

HUTCHYHIBBY
04-11-2017, 11:10 AM
Hearts fans = Nonce wing

Hibernia&Alba
04-11-2017, 11:12 AM
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/uncivil-war-why-partizan-belgrade-vs-red-star-more-game

Partizan Belgrade and Red Star Belgrade have an interesting political history. I think there's a few teams from the former Yugoslavia that have either nationalist or federalist ultra groups.

The Balkans/former Yugoslavia is a discussion I'm not getting into :greengrin

green&left
04-11-2017, 11:19 AM
PSG right wing. Big skinhead element.

PSG were mixed. The kop of boulogne generally housed the right-wing leaning fans. The opposite end the Auteuil housed the Tigris Mystic group and made up of north african and arab immigrants and left leaning PSG fans. Wasn't uncommon for them to fight eachother and have separate segregated sections at away matches. Pretty sure there was a death (stabbing i think) between PSG fans fighting PSG fans and both ends got closed down and all groups banned. After 6 years a new Ultras group was allowed back in the terraces called Collectif Ultras.

lord bunberry
04-11-2017, 11:27 AM
I’ve been to a couple of games on the right wing supporters bus. Used to be a great wee boozer that :greengrin

Bostonhibby
04-11-2017, 11:41 AM
I’ve been to a couple of games on the right wing supporters bus. Used to be a great wee boozer that :greengrinFacist [emoji6]

Our paths may well have crossed as we used the pub and the bus occasionally in the 70's and early 80's.

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lord bunberry
04-11-2017, 11:48 AM
Facist [emoji6]

Our paths may well have crossed as we used the pub and the bus occasionally in the 70's and early 80's.

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Possibly mate, but I would’ve been a young boy then :greengrin

Bostonhibby
04-11-2017, 11:49 AM
Possibly mate, but I would’ve been a young boy then :greengrinWe all were!

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lord bunberry
04-11-2017, 12:07 PM
We all were!

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Some of us have never grown up :greengrin

hibsbollah
04-11-2017, 12:37 PM
PSG were mixed. The kop of boulogne generally housed the right-wing leaning fans. The opposite end the Auteuil housed the Tigris Mystic group and made up of north african and arab immigrants and left leaning PSG fans. Wasn't uncommon for them to fight eachother and have separate segregated sections at away matches. Pretty sure there was a death (stabbing i think) between PSG fans fighting PSG fans and both ends got closed down and all groups banned. After 6 years a new Ultras group was allowed back in the terraces called Collectif Ultras.

It was the Boulogne boys that I was familiar with. Very political, very violent, and there was always nonsense with OM throughout the 90s until the boy got stabbed to death and the ban on travelling fans started. My mate grew up in the outskirts of Paris in the 90s and he told me some tales. He's PSG and he hated them.

Bristolhibby
04-11-2017, 03:19 PM
Do groups of their supporters make fascists salutes at rivals?

I'm not anti Atletico but their prominent ultras group has issues with people using fascist salutes and iconography and chanting racial slurs.

Moving on I remember being a bit confused by the football rivalry in Kraków. Wisla Kraków were for many years owned, funded and controlled by the Communist Police yet when I went to one of their games they displayed banners declaring support for Lazio and had anti Semitic banners aimed at fans of Cracovia, who are traditionally seen as the Jewish team in Kraków. I'm still a bit confused by the whole thing now tbh.

You are confusing what communism became with its original ideal.

A Police team in a Police State. Sounds a bit Facist no?

Reckon it’s the right wing establishment team.

J

Dashing Bob S
04-11-2017, 05:02 PM
Hearts definitely have a nazi size queen element to their fanbase

yonder1875
04-11-2017, 05:10 PM
Could class Liverpool on the Left.

Is It On....
04-11-2017, 05:40 PM
The Evra thread got me thinking about clubs that are famous/infamous for the political inclinations of their support. It isn't something we see much in Britain; though if course we have some religious divide in the game, sadly.

Famously left wing supports - Marseille, Livorno, AEK Athens, St Pauli.

Right wing - Lazio, Roma, Inter, Hamburg, Zenit St Peterburg; The Rangers, definitely The Rangers.

Which other clubs are known for their strong political outlook?

Livorno have a hard core Communist base (think it's where the Italian Communist party were founded), Bolgna are classed as Leftist, think Atalanta are right wing. Linfield are also known for their interesting political views..

vercol36
04-11-2017, 06:00 PM
I've always thought perceived Liverpool and Hibs fans as being mostly libertarian left types whilst Hearts are a stuffy right wing club trying to cling onto the coat tails of an establishment that thinks they are trash.

Sure you mean libertarian, mate? Not many of them in Scotland. Libertarianism occupies that shady area between left and right - somewhere near anarchism - where government must be as small as possible in order to ensure completely free enterprise. I reckon Hibs is trad left, big government, old left. In general, of course.

Apart from that one weirdo on the FLA thread who's probably wearing his brown shirt as we speak.

Is It On....
04-11-2017, 06:30 PM
You are confusing what communism became with its original ideal.

A Police team in a Police State. Sounds a bit Facist no?

Reckon it’s the right wing establishment team.

J

My Spanish friend refers to Real Madrid as "Franco's Facists". Soviet and East German teams were often "works" teams for different parts of the state..in Moscow CSKA were Army, Lokomotiv - Railways/Transportation, Dynamo was affiliated to the KGB..

Bostonhibby
04-11-2017, 06:37 PM
My Spanish friend refers to Real Madrid as "Franco's Facists". Soviet and East German teams were often "works" teams for different parts of the state..in Moscow CSKA were Army, Lokomotiv - Railways/Transportation, Dynamo was affiliated to the KGB..The Russian ones were often works or industry backed as you say. Have a read of Dynamo - defending the honour of Kiev by Andy Dougan.

Great insight into how the teams worked as well as being a great historical read. I'd say they were socialist at the time rather than communist.

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Hibernia&Alba
04-11-2017, 10:03 PM
Sure you mean libertarian, mate? Not many of them in Scotland. Libertarianism occupies that shady area between left and right - somewhere near anarchism - where government must be as small as possible in order to ensure completely free enterprise. I reckon Hibs is trad left, big government, old left. In general, of course.

Apart from that one weirdo on the FLA thread who's probably wearing his brown shirt as we speak.

There is both left libertarianism/anarcho-syndicalism and right libertarianism/ anarcho-capitalism. Noam Chomsky describes himself as the former; someone like Ayn Rand was the latter.

Is It On....
05-11-2017, 12:06 AM
There is both left libertarianism/anarcho-syndicalism and right libertarianism/ anarcho-capitalism. Noam Chomsky describes himself as the former; someone like Ayn Rand was the latter.

Ayn Rand mentioned on .net A more informed forum!! 😂😂

IberianHibernian
05-11-2017, 12:30 AM
From what I`ve seen in Spanish football , left / right difference between rival clubs is pretty insignificant . Real Madrid were referred to as the team of the " regime " ( meaning Franco`s regime ) but Atletico Madrid were Atletico Aviación with even closer links to Franco`s regime and certainly their " Ultras " now are eve more right wing than anything that follows Real Madrid . Never thought of Barcelona or their fans as being left wing and can`t think why anyone would think differently . A very rich club with many rich supporters ( could be compared with tennis clubs in Barcelona but on a much bigger scale ) . Some politicians ( almost all or all right wing Catalan nationalaists or right wing Catalan independence supporters ) have used Barcelona CF to boost their political careers and club have tried or still try to use political issues to boost income but knowing that internal Spanish issues won`t affect their enormoyus popularity outside Spain especially outside Europe . Seville is a bit like Edinburgh in that there are 2 teams with similar supports , Sevilla with a slightly bigger support within the city while Betis are very popular in villages all over Andalusia ( competing with Real Madrid and Barcelona ) and in other parts of Spain where there are a lot of Andalusians particularly Catalonia ( especially poorer parts where Andalusian / Extremeńo workers settled - mainly left - wing anti Catalan independence if political labels have to be given ) . Sevilla is supposed to be the " establishment " team in Seville but that was a long time ago and Spain has moved on very fast in the last 40 odd years and in fact Betis ultras are right wing while Sevilla Biri Biri are left wing . In all cases , talk of Ultras is of a tiny percentage of club supports so I would say political influence in club supports is far less than many observers might think or hope for . Rayo Vallecano havae been mentioned before on this thread as having a left - wing support which I`m sure is true - Vallecas is a poor area of Madrid with a high percentage of Andalusian " immigrants " ( like many areas of Catalonia ) and most fans will be local who have no affinity with gloryhunters following Real and Atletico .

AZhibee
05-11-2017, 05:32 AM
if its become a team in green thread then I'll go Tampa Bay Rowdies.

Right wing state.

BigT-Hibeez
05-11-2017, 05:58 AM
From what I`ve seen in Spanish football , left / right difference between rival clubs is pretty insignificant . Real Madrid were referred to as the team of the " regime " ( meaning Franco`s regime ) but Atletico Madrid were Atletico Aviación with even closer links to Franco`s regime and certainly their " Ultras " now are eve more right wing than anything that follows Real Madrid . Never thought of Barcelona or their fans as being left wing and can`t think why anyone would think differently . A very rich club with many rich supporters ( could be compared with tennis clubs in Barcelona but on a much bigger scale ) . Some politicians ( almost all or all right wing Catalan nationalaists or right wing Catalan independence supporters ) have used Barcelona CF to boost their political careers and club have tried or still try to use political issues to boost income but knowing that internal Spanish issues won`t affect their enormoyus popularity outside Spain especially outside Europe . Seville is a bit like Edinburgh in that there are 2 teams with similar supports , Sevilla with a slightly bigger support within the city while Betis are very popular in villages all over Andalusia ( competing with Real Madrid and Barcelona ) and in other parts of Spain where there are a lot of Andalusians particularly Catalonia ( especially poorer parts where Andalusian / Extremeńo workers settled - mainly left - wing anti Catalan independence if political labels have to be given ) . Sevilla is supposed to be the " establishment " team in Seville but that was a long time ago and Spain has moved on very fast in the last 40 odd years and in fact Betis ultras are right wing while Sevilla Biri Biri are left wing . In all cases , talk of Ultras is of a tiny percentage of club supports so I would say political influence in club supports is far less than many observers might think or hope for . Rayo Vallecano havae been mentioned before on this thread as having a left - wing support which I`m sure is true - Vallecas is a poor area of Madrid with a high percentage of Andalusian " immigrants " ( like many areas of Catalonia ) and most fans will be local who have no affinity with gloryhunters following Real and Atletico .

Thats what I was going to mention, as I was in Granada the last time Barca played Real, and my mate who lives there was trying to explain to me the Real (Royal) support, are like royalists,
and the divide with the Barca support is like fascists vs anarchists.. Very complex..
Saying that, there was equal amounts of fans from both teams in every bar, and no sign of violence..
The same trip I was in a bar in Malaga when we beat the Rangers 3-2 again, and a grown man, with 3 kids in tow, called me a Catholic *******!!!! Ugly!!!

Forza Fred
05-11-2017, 06:25 AM
Sydney FC. ......north shore, morningside, upper crust types

Western Sydney Wanderers....blue collar fans