Did we send a message to Scottish football on Saturday?

[NAE NOOKIE]

Saturday was our worst turnout for a semi final at Hampden for a good few years. Even given the same circumstances with KO time and live TV we have taken bigger supports.

If you ask me Celtic were the biggest factor in this, we don't have a particular problem with them like we do with the Huns so far as the potential for trouble goes, so what put most casual fans off was the fact ( and it is a fact ) that our chances of winning that game were considerably worse than against any other club in Scotland.

Its noticeable that what used to be a main attraction for most clubs no longer has the drawing power it used to. I'm willing to bet the home turnouts for many clubs are as high, if not higher, for games against Aberdeen or us for example than for Celtic and its simply due to the fact that Celtic are as unbeatable now as they have been at practically any time in their history .... people are simply fed up of a club so far ahead of everybody else financially that they have made themselves unwatchable to fans of other clubs.

We have given them more of a game than practically anybody over the last few season, but at the end on Saturday their fans were so underwhelmed by the victory that 50% of them couldn't even be bothered to stick around and clap their team off the pitch. They didn't view beating Hibs as anything more than what was expected of them and the question has to be, if this continues how long will it be before folk stop going to watch Celtic in their own stadium?

I remember the days not too long ago when losing to Celtic would have depressed the hell out of me, but now its so predictable that I was able to brush off Saturday 5 minutes after the game was finished and I'm willing to bet that goes for fans of practically every club these days ..... how long until Celtic's fans get as bored with watching them win as we all are watching them winning? If you ask me our poor turnout and their desertion of the stadium at the end of the semi final are both signs that fans of the other clubs are sick of their dominance to the point of not turning out and that same dominance is making watching them utterly lacking in excitement for their own fans. When winning is no longer an achievement what's the point of it.

I cant help thinking Celtic are not too far away from being victims of their own success ... they could do worse than chuck the League cup final for their own good.

[MWHIBBIES]

Having a slim chance of winning is such a **** reason not to go and see your team. Why should they bother if we dont?

If we had won on Saturday it wouldve been incredible, well worth the risk of defeat. I couldnt really care less about Celtic and their success, Hibs are all that matter.

[CentreLine]

No, not getting much from those reasons. Actually I thought there was every reason to be optimistic about our chances on Saturday. We certainly laid down a marker at Parkhead and are probably the only team in Scotland to actually have a go at them. Something they are not used to and I believe they are vulnerable to it. As it happens we put two past them but conceded poor goals at the other end. Yes they were favourites but I just do not see that as the reason for our "poor" attendance.
We shifted 11,000 seats, not bad for the "wee cup" semi-final.

[Carheenlea]

A lot of Celtic fans aren't just going for the football. They expect to win, so their day out is a social occasion consisting of republican sing alongs, jaunty country folk and faux Irishness. It's a safe day out, as they win most of their games, but while you would expect the novelty of doing that every week would wear off, the Celtic support don't seem to ever get enough of it. Their crowds won't be dropping any time soon.

[WeeRussell]

Nope. And your final sentence can't be serious?

As for them on Saturday, the 'best fans in the world' have been leaving before laps of honour and trophy presentations for years, it's nothing new.

Oh, and I do have a particular problem with them, it's just not as big and particular as the one I have with their ugly sisters :greengrin

[Wilson]

Having a slim chance of winning is such a **** reason not to go and see your team. Why should they bother if we dont?

If we had won on Saturday it wouldve been incredible, well worth the risk of defeat. I couldnt really care less about Celtic and their success, Hibs are all that matter.

We must have gone to semi finals with a worse chance of winning? Poorer hibs sides have played better Old Firm sides over the years...

We had just come close to beating Celtic and we were playing them again in similar circumstances (their having just played in Europe). If this wasn't a good opportunity to see us beat them in a semi final then I'm not sure what WOULD constitute a good one.

Somehow the bulk of the fair weather just didn't go for it. I don't think we can narrow it down to one reason.

[Ronniekirk]

I was on holiday or would have been there But agree its boring watching Celtic win week in week out domestically
If Aberdeen cant beat them this midweek then they could well do the Treble again
They. Didn't need to be at their best but the quality of players to come off the bench made sure they had enough to see the game out
So i think the crowd would of been better if it was nt October holiday week ,but agree fans have stayed away feeling we couldn't win it The other stuff about on TV and early kick off were secondary to the Celtic Factor



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Killiehibbie]

I know a couple of celtic season ticket holders who gave up 10 years ago because they were bored watching teams go to parkhead and not even try to win.

[blackpoolhibs]

I know a couple of celtic season ticket holders who gave up 10 years ago because they were bored watching teams go to parkhead and not even try to win.

I know a few Hibs fans who stopped going to Easter road, although it was Hibs teams that were hardly trying to win. :greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

Celtc fans *had* started to get bored and drift away but the appearance of (and chance to lord it over) the New Huns has given them a new lease of life. I can imagine this will last through 10 in a row but if the New Huns don't put up a meaningful challenge, and it's hard to see where the money for that would come from, then we might start to see their crowds go down again.

[Smartie]

As a fan who went to every Hibs game home and away, and every Scotland home game (and a few away ones) I was getting increasingly frustrated that fans going to games were overlooked in favour of the armchair fans.

So I stopped going to as many games. The Internationals rarely fit into my schedule so they've been easy to give up and watch at home.

I actually fancied our chances on Saturday. We gave them a fright a few weeks ago, they were coming off a big game in Munich with another one this week against Aberdeen. I thought we had what it took to put them on the back foot, make them uncomfortable and get a result, and if it wasn't for the silly mistakes we made that you simply can't afford to make against them, we would have got a result.

I just can't justify, in my financial position, that ticket price and an early trek through to Glasgow for a game that is on tv, in the League Cup that I can watch from my sofa.

The easier the authorities make it for people to do as I do, the more people will do it.

I used to get annoyed when my "uberfan-ness" was challenged but that stopped when I was about 16, so I don't care any more what anyone thinks about my reasons for going to games/ avoiding going to games.

I get my season ticket, go to all our home games and will go to away ones, semi-finals and cup finals as the mood takes me.

Celtic and their perceived strength has nothing to do with it.

[fulshie]

Personally, I go to games to watch Hibs on the strength that, that's team I support. I don't go to games on the strength of how good our bad the opposition is. I also don't agree with the assumption that Celtic will be a victim of their own success as they have so many glory hunters. In saying that, they we're winning the league under Ronnie Dailia (not sure of spelling) and closed the top tier of their stadium because they weren't playing attractive football (best fans in the world eh!). Now though they're winning every week and winning all domestic trophies and I don't think anyone would bet against them doing the treble again and, they're also playing more attractive football and now their stadium is bursting at the seams. I don't know the main issues as to why our support was lower than normal at a cup semi and I don't pretend to do so but I simply don't think it was down to how good Celtic are. We've played them twice and we've took 4 goals of them (They're not that good).

[Iggy Pope]

Not worth six paragraphs on the OP. One will cover it.
Semi finals at Hampden should be well attended by Hibbies, no matter the opposition or their form.

[brog]

I wouldn't completely disagree with the OP but I think the changes made to the format may have also devalued the League Cup competition. It was crazy that 2 of the 4 semi finalists had already played 6 games to get there whereas it was only the 3rd game for the uglies & they had been seeded for one of those. We shouldn't get too excited however. AFAIK that was the 1st time in my lifetime that we had played a LC semi at Hampden on a weekend. Our last 2 semis at Hampden were against Oldco & Ayr & attracted less than 28 & 12k respectively. I think we were seduced by the fact that we've recently been used to taking in excess of 20k to Hampden for our many big cup semi finals. We took 15k on Saturday, that's actually possibly our biggest travelling support for a (non Final) league cup game in living memory.

[Sir David Gray]

Anybody who decides not to go to a football match because they don't think their team will win needs to get themselves a new hobby.

[hibee]

School holidays were surely a factor too, I just got back from Spain today and only one of our group of ST holders wasn’t away, he didn’t go on his own.

Must have been plenty others away too.

[Hermit Crab]

The only message we sent was that we cant sell 20k tickets that we asked to the SFA to give us for a major cup semi final. Embarrassing.

[blackpoolhibs]

The only message we sent was that we cant sell 20k tickets that we asked to the SFA to give us for a major cup semi final. Embarrassing.


Hahahahaha, i'm not in the least bit embarrassed. :faf:

[Hermit Crab]

Hahahahaha, i'm not in the least bit embarrassed. :faf:


Didn't expect you be, sat in your arse groove in Blackpool.

[blackpoolhibs]

Didn't expect you be, sat in your arse groove in Blackpool.


Aye because you know everything dont you? :rolleyes:

Tickets bought, hotel booked for the friday on Argyle St, and back goes on wednesday to put paid to all of that. Not an excuse because i dont need an excuse, a reason why i was not there.

And £38 twice since to see a chiropractor just to get me upright enough to walk and be able to get into a car and up the road tomorrow if all goes well.

But if it doesn't, i wont be embarrassed if my seat is empty either. :rolleyes:

Embarrassed. :faf:

[marinello59]

The only message we sent was that we cant sell 20k tickets that we asked to the SFA to give us for a major cup semi final. Embarrassing.

It’s not embarrassing at all. I’m pretty proud of the support we did take.

[Famous Fiver]

As Bill Clinton said 'It's the economy, stupid'

Expecting fans to cough up £30 (more than £100 quid) for a family during school holidays, with a 12.15 kick off, 40 odd miles away, and live on telly which many fans will already have paid for is nothing short of arrogance or madness, or both. £5 for a programme, £3.80 for a tray of chips, £3.50 for a wee plastic bottle of Pepsi. Christmas is coming up. Need I go on? The Scottish football authorities are so out of touch with the ordinary fan it beggars belief.

We did well to get the crowd we did.

And, by the way, 40,000 Rangers fans went missing (far more empty seats than Hibs managed) on Sunday and not a word said. Snow off a dyke. At least our 11,000 stuck it out to the bitter end and applauded our team.

[emerald green]

We took 15k on Saturday, that's actually possibly our biggest travelling support for a (non Final) league cup game in living memory.

I understood that Hibs sold 11,000 for Saturday's match. Is that incorrect? :dunno:

[The Modfather]

I can never remember if folk are happy that the “day trippers” didn’t go and was just the hard core at the game, or whether it’s embarrassing that the “day trippers” didn’t dust down there scarves for their annual Hampden trips.

[Hermit Crab]

I understood that Hibs sold 11,000 for Saturday's match. Is that incorrect? :dunno:


Thats correct.

[emerald green]

Thats correct.

Thanks. :aok:

[blackpoolhibs]

I can never remember if folk are happy that the “day trippers” didn’t go and was just the hard core at the game, or whether it’s embarrassing that the “day trippers” didn’t dust down there scarves for their annual Hampden trips.


:faf::faf: :top marksSpot on.

[Hibbyradge]

Not worth six paragraphs on the OP. One will cover it.
Semi finals at Hampden should be well attended by Hibbies, no matter the opposition or their form.

It was well attended.

11500 is more than our average home gate was for most of this decade and you'll remember much lower attendances than that in the 80s.

[Hibbyradge]

Anybody who decides not to go to a football match because they don't think their team will win needs to get themselves a new hobby.

Or maybe they can just go to the games they're confident about?

Why do you think crowds increase when teams are winning regularly?

[erin go bragh]

Thats correct.

So Celtic sell their 22k allocation,then receive 3k more in the south upper.
Attendance just over 39k. Now I'm no Pythagoras but does that not mean we took just over 14k ( we certainly souded at least that )

[The_Horde]

Yep.

Message received - hibs can play but are just as soft as ever and concede at least 1 a game.

[andybev1]

We witnessed the 'backlash' of the poor home results against teams that we should have beaten. The reason I say this is because of the opening great result to partick thistle and then away to Rangers, that on top of the good preseason we had, gave us a really great support for the Hamilton game and BANG, we lost in a dismal second-half display.
Then more good results in the cup with a good performances away to Dundee and decent draw at St Johnstone and then BANG a bad draw to Motherwell (looks a bit better now but the way it happened...) Those who may have persevered after those results came again only to see last weeks performance against Aberdeen after that great draw to Celtic.

Due to this I think the people who came to those home games who may have not gone to a game for ages were possibly the same people that would have rmade up the fans for the semi-final support but they were not going to go to a game and spend their hard earned cash on making themselves less than happy on their weekend.

to add to this we had the perfect storm:
1. bad home results in front of those fans that had come back to hibs.
2. not the Scottish cup and a lot of people (like it or not) do no rate the Betfred cup so much.
3. The view that a win against Celtic was so unlikely the fans did not see it as a worthwhile use of their time/money.

[Sir David Gray]

Or maybe they can just go to the games they're confident about?

Why do you think crowds increase when teams are winning regularly?

So if we had played Celtic this time last year when we were winning almost every week in the Championship, we would have had more fans there on Saturday?

Not going to a game because you think we're likely to get beat is a terrible excuse.

[superfurryhibby]

Thats correct.

The official attendence was 39,000? Did Celtic get 28,000 seats? Was it corporate fans that accounted for the rest? Puzzled.

[brog]

So Celtic sell their 22k allocation,then receive 3k more in the south upper.
Attendance just over 39k. Now I'm no Pythagoras but does that not mean we took just over 14k ( we certainly souded at least that )
That was what I was basing my estimate on. Of course there are debenture seats & other clubs have an allocation. Anyway, regardless whether 12k or 14k it's probably the biggest support we've taken to a LC semi outside Edinburgh.

[scooby]

We witnessed the 'backlash' of the poor home results against teams that we should have beaten. The reason I say this is because of the opening great result to partick thistle and then away to Rangers, that on top of the good preseason we had, gave us a really great support for the Hamilton game and BANG, we lost in a dismal second-half display.
Then more good results in the cup with a good performances away to Dundee and decent draw at St Johnstone and then BANG a bad draw to Motherwell (looks a bit better now but the way it happened...) Those who may have persevered after those results came again only to see last weeks performance against Aberdeen after that great draw to Celtic.

Due to this I think the people who came to those home games who may have not gone to a game for ages were possibly the same people that would have rmade up the fans for the semi-final support but they were not going to go to a game and spend their hard earned cash on making themselves less than happy on their weekend.

to add to this we had the perfect storm:
1. bad home results in front of those fans that had come back to hibs.
2. not the Scottish cup and a lot of people (like it or not) do no rate the Betfred cup so much.
3. The view that a win against Celtic was so unlikely the fans did not see it as a worthwhile use of their time/money.

Pretty accurate assessment 👍

[Captain Trips]

No message was sent to Scottish football nobody really cares about our support other than us and it will all be forgotten about in a few days.

[NAE NOOKIE]

No message was sent to Scottish football nobody really cares about our support other than us and it will all be forgotten about in a few days.

Wow ...... Its the job of the SFA and SPFL to care very much about supporter trends mate. When a club who have increased their support by more than a third over two seasons. have a record number of season ticket holders and have a tremendous recent record for turnouts at semi finals sell an amount of tickets which bucks every one of these trends folk 'other than us' should care very much if you ask me.

If the SPFL and Hibs aren't both sitting down at this moment in time and asking WTF went wrong there? then there should be different folk running the SPFL and Hibs for that matter. If Hibs had matched our recent average there would have been roughly another 5,000 fans in the ground. If 1000 of them bought £30 tickets, 2,000 £25 tickets and 2,000 £10 tickets that would have amounted to £100,000 which doesn't even include sales of programmes and food.

If nobody cares about that then Scottish football really is being run by idiots :bitchy:

[Steve-O]

Clearly there was no one factor, but a combination:

- Celtic were the opponents and our chances of winning were pretty slim
- The game was on TV
- The tickets were reasonably expensive
- 12:15 KO meant less time for the usual 'day out' antics of going to the pub etc, unless you started drinking about 8am (I'm sure some did, but it's not for everyone)
- The KO time meant having to leave Edinburgh by about 10am at the absolute latest probably
- Hibs' recent form hasn't been that great
- We're at Hampden so often it's not even a special occasion now! :wink:

[ajf]

This season ticket holder refuses to go through to Hampden for a 12.15 ko, I don't care if its not on tv or if its the Scottish cup final v Edinburgh city I will not go through to Glasgow for a 12.15 ko , if they want to take the tv money thats fine , they just don't get mine ,

[Hibbyradge]

So if we had played Celtic this time last year when we were winning almost every week in the Championship, we would have had more fans there on Saturday?

Not going to a game because you think we're likely to get beat is a terrible excuse.

Why do attendances increase when the team is winning regularly? Home and away, every team has more fans when victory is more likely.

You may think it's a terrible "excuse", but people like to see their team win. When defeat looks inevitable, fewer folk will spend money to witness it.

Like it or not, it's a fact.

[green with envy]

School holidays were surely a factor too, I just got back from Spain today and only one of our group of ST holders wasn’t away, he didn’t go on his own.

Must have been plenty others away too.

For the same reason that i missed my first domestic SF since my first against rangers way back in '79. However when i booked my holiday months ago the fixture list had us down away to Kilmarnock - I was gutted when we beat Livi in the Semi.:greengrin

[pacoluna]

Pretty accurate assessment ��


not really just a list of excuses made by those who didn't go.

[Betty Boop]

No message was sent to Scottish football nobody really cares about our support other than us and it will all be forgotten about in a few days.

:agree:

[Captain Trips]

Wow ...... Its the job of the SFA and SPFL to care very much about supporter trends mate. When a club who have increased their support by more than a third over two seasons. have a record number of season ticket holders and have a tremendous recent record for turnouts at semi finals sell an amount of tickets which bucks every one of these trends folk 'other than us' should care very much if you ask me.

If the SPFL and Hibs aren't both sitting down at this moment in time and asking WTF went wrong there? then there should be different folk running the SPFL and Hibs for that matter. If Hibs had matched our recent average there would have been roughly another 5,000 fans in the ground. If 1000 of them bought £30 tickets, 2,000 £25 tickets and 2,000 £10 tickets that would have amounted to £100,000 which doesn't even include sales of programmes and food.

If nobody cares about that then Scottish football really is being run by idiots :bitchy:

Looking way to deep into this and it will happen from now until end of time we didnt sell as many tickets as we thought it has happened before and will again, why ask Hibs or SPFL what went wrong? It is not them that didnt not buy tickets ask the 15k supporters whom were at the 2016 final were they were or the SF earlier this year. I am sure they have plenty of reasons for not going and none of which need justified.

Im one that was at 2016 final and not Saturday I had other plans in place before draw was made and I only stay 1 mile from Hampden. Way to much getting made of this IMO of course. I have already taken a holiday today to go to match tonight. If I had to pick tonight or Saturday then I woud have picked tonight.

[WeeRussell]

not really just a list of excuses made by those who didn't go.

So therefore... a pretty accurate assessment :confused:

[greenlex]

I had a couple of Celtic fans at work last night who genuinely believed Hibs deliberately sold out the North and South stands first so that Cetic couldn’t get any unsold tickets in the West because of segregation issues. They thought it was a sneaky move..😂😂😂😂. Oh aye and the Rangers fanns are hurting big time. It was s good shift.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Looking way to deep into this and it will happen from now until end of time we didnt sell as many tickets as we thought it has happened before and will again, why ask Hibs or SPFL what went wrong? It is not them that didnt not buy tickets ask the 15k supporters whom were at the 2016 final were they were or the SF earlier this year. I am sure they have plenty of reasons for not going and none of which need justified.

Im one that was at 2016 final and not Saturday I had other plans in place before draw was made and I only stay 1 mile from Hampden. Way to much getting made of this IMO of course. I have already taken a holiday today to go to match tonight. If I had to pick tonight or Saturday then I woud have picked tonight.

If you read my post again you will see that I'm not asking Hibs or the SPFL what went wrong, I'm saying that Hibs and the SPFL should be asking us what went wrong, as you went on to say . Any business which fails to realise its expected targets regarding sales would surely canvass their target customer base to find out why the product wasn't as attractive as they projected or presumed it would be.

I'm aware that people have many reasons for not attending any particular game, from I was in a coma to I couldn't be arsed ... but in between those two extremes there are others which a fan will weigh up in making their decision as to whether or not to attend and its the reasons which accounted for those who chose not to attend that need to be looked at .... not who 'couldn't' attend for whatever reason, but who 'chose' not to attend. Its those reasons the SFA and Hibs need to look at and which ones were the biggest factor in the lower than expected turnout from our support. I don't think its good enough to just roll your eyes and say 'oh well that happens now and again' or the curse of Scottish football over the years 'its aye been'

Was the ridiculous 12:15 kick off time a factor?
Were the ticket prices too high?
How much of a factor was it that the game was live on TV?
Was the fact that Celtic have practically made themselves unbeatable a factor?
I keep seeing folk alluding to the fact that the Edinburgh schools were on holiday, was that a factor and would it therefor be worth looking at the schedule for these games to take things like that into account?
Did a combination of all five make for a perfect storm?

Perhaps you think I'm looking too deeply into this as an individual fan, perhaps I am. But I don't get transferring that opinion to the people who run the game or individual clubs, including Hibs. Surely looking deeply into this is exactly what they should be doing, where the income from a single game has been a hundred thousand quid less than expected ( in fact a lot more if Hibs had sold the 20,000 tickets they said they could ) and you have one of the clubs involved squealing publicly that both the SPFL and Hibs have screwed up.

[greenlex]

Ticket prices for the final announced. £30 for the cheapest adult ticket. Bonkers.

[Captain Trips]

If you read my post again you will see that I'm not asking Hibs or the SPFL what went wrong, I'm saying that Hibs and the SPFL should be asking us what went wrong, as you went on to say . Any business which fails to realise its expected targets regarding sales would surely canvass their target customer base to find out why the product wasn't as attractive as they projected or presumed it would be.

I'm aware that people have many reasons for not attending any particular game, from I was in a coma to I couldn't be arsed ... but in between those two extremes there are others which a fan will weigh up in making their decision as to whether or not to attend and its the reasons which accounted for those who chose not to attend that need to be looked at .... not who 'couldn't' attend for whatever reason, but who 'chose' not to attend. Its those reasons the SFA and Hibs need to look at and which ones were the biggest factor in the lower than expected turnout from our support. I don't think its good enough to just roll your eyes and say 'oh well that happens now and again' or the curse of Scottish football over the years 'its aye been'

Was the ridiculous 12:15 kick off time a factor?
Were the ticket prices too high?
How much of a factor was it that the game was live on TV?
Was the fact that Celtic have practically made themselves unbeatable a factor?
I keep seeing folk alluding to the fact that the Edinburgh schools were on holiday, was that a factor and would it therefor be worth looking at the schedule for these games to take things like that into account?
Did a combination of all five make for a perfect storm?

Perhaps you think I'm looking too deeply into this as an individual fan, perhaps I am. But I don't get transferring that opinion to the people who run the game or individual clubs, including Hibs. Surely looking deeply into this is exactly what they should be doing, where the income from a single game has been a hundred thousand quid less than expected ( in fact a lot more if Hibs had sold the 20,000 tickets they said they could ) and you have one of the clubs involved squealing publicly that both the SPFL and Hibs have screwed up.

The prices are what they are, I do not think prices can be dictated by what teams are playing. KO time this is now part of the game. I do think there is to much focus nobody screwed up a lot of folk didn't fancy it and nobody was to know this when draw was made.

The only people worth asking are the people who were at final and not there on Saturday. I was at final but not Saturday as I had a financial choice Saturday or last night, I chose last night.

A lot of our fans never turned up, I think lets move on.