Let's Change Our Mindset

[brog]

This is not a criticism of NL, he's been much more adventurous than I expected but he does seem to have a mindset that we must always have a midfield ball winner in the team. In our case that effectively means Marvin & much as I'm a fan of big Marv for his commitment & personality we lose a lot of creativity when he's in the side. IMO we can be braver & play without a defensive mid player. Let the opposition worry about getting the ball from us. SJM, Dylan, Danny & Slivka have sufficient quality & dig to win & keep the ball for us. With any 2 from Stokes, Murray, Barker, Boyle & now young Oli playing in the more attacking roles we could & should be taking apart most of the defences in the top league. Let's pass & run the opposition off their feet starting with Tuesday!

[Hi Heid Yin]

Absolutely no way we can leave Bartley out. He is physical and commanding and crucial in what will be a blood and sweat derby against a typical robust Levein team of brute intimidation.
Sorry, but so-called silky players, in particular, Slivka, will find little room to play their normal game.

[Bishop Hibee]

If we were playing any other team except Hertz on Tuesday I’d agree with the OP. We need to win the battle in midfield and Bartley has been a vital part in our recent good form v them. He needs to play. I’d put Boyle in for Slivka to be more attack minded.

[18Hibee75]

I really like Bartley in the side. I do want to see us play Stokes and Murray again though, rather than four central midfielders and one winger.

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[Leith Green]

Bartley isnt part of any problem that i can see. Lennons lack of players playing in and around stokes would be a good place to start. Playing slivka on the right is just madness especially after the impact he had there against Aberdeen. We are so weak at full back when it comes to attacking as well , Stevenson pretty much always turns back on himself instead of going beyond, we are slow and ponderous in possession as well. Lennon has a decent squad and has done okay this season however it's glaringly obvious what he needs to change

[spudhib]

Let’s just play an out and out striker and let Stokes drift into pockets and wider areas where he’s harder to pickup and he can play his game facing the goal.

[Pretty Boy]

I'd drop Bartley out.

Play McGeough and Mcginn a bit deeper, Boyle and Barker wide and Slivka just behind Stokes. Still bite in there and the pace and creativity would win it for us.

[oneone73]

I'd drop Bartley out.

Play McGeough and Mcginn a bit deeper, Boyle and Barker wide and Slivka just behind Stokes. Still bite in there and the pace and creativity would win it for us.

Swap Swanson for Slivka and I'm with you.

[Steve20]

Can’t have Barker playing on Tuesday. He’s done nothing and bottles every challenge.

Can’t believe anyone would drop Bartley for a derby game. Get Slivka out that team and bring Swanson in.

[J-C]

This is not a criticism of NL, he's been much more adventurous than I expected but he does seem to have a mindset that we must always have a midfield ball winner in the team. In our case that effectively means Marvin & much as I'm a fan of big Marv for his commitment & personality we lose a lot of creativity when he's in the side. IMO we can be braver & play without a defensive mid player. Let the opposition worry about getting the ball from us. SJM, Dylan, Danny & Slivka have sufficient quality & dig to win & keep the ball for us. With any 2 from Stokes, Murray, Barker, Boyle & now young Oli playing in the more attacking roles we could & should be taking apart most of the defences in the top league. Let's pass & run the opposition off their feet starting with Tuesday!


I'd drop Bartley out.

Play McGeough and Mcginn a bit deeper, Boyle and Barker wide and Slivka just behind Stokes. Still bite in there and the pace and creativity would win it for us.


I've said it on many threads that when Bartley plays he hinders our forward movement, in certain games he's needed but you see the difference when Dylan dropped into the deeper position that he started to control the game and it's tempo. Celtic didn't have a big enforcer type on the pitch, they had the very clever and good Brown, a similar player to Dylan, lets start looking to be more positive and being more attacking, Hearts will play one up top, we don't need a DM in there.

[spudhib]

Can’t have Barker playing on Tuesday. He’s done nothing and bottles every challenge.

Can’t believe anyone would drop Bartley for a derby game. Get Slivka out that team and bring Swanson in.

Agree on all points Bartley first name on team sheet v them and slivka has done very little in 2 big games previous,Danny will be champing at the bit to play against them.

[HibbyAndy]

Marvin Bartley is the first name on the team sheet every single week

MUST start against Hearts

[Speedway]

Drop McGinn the undroppable.

[Diclonius]

Bartley is half the reason we've had a good record against Hearts in recent years. Unlike the previous five years of bottlers he faces the derby with absolutely no fear. Absolutely must start.

[LaMotta]

Can’t have Barker playing on Tuesday. He’s done nothing and bottles every challenge.

Can’t believe anyone would drop Bartley for a derby game. Get Slivka out that team and bring Swanson in.

Agree.

[Heisenberg]

Ive a feeling Swanson might play as well.

[brog]

Stubbs had the courage to go without Marvin for the biggest game in our history. I genuinely don't think we need Marvin against a very poor Yams team. If we pass them off the park we won't need a midfield enforcer.

[matty_f]

I'd play Bartley, he's been immense in every derby he's featured in.

[brog]

I've said it on many threads that when Bartley plays he hinders our forward movement, in certain games he's needed but you see the difference when Dylan dropped into the deeper position that he started to control the game and it's tempo. Celtic didn't have a big enforcer type on the pitch, they had the very clever and good Brown, a similar player to Dylan, lets start looking to be more positive and being more attacking, Hearts will play one up top, we don't need a DM in there.

I agree. A problem with Marvin is that after winning the ball he doesnt necessarily control it but just looks to pass it on. That often means the next player receives a bobbling ball or a pass which means the pass recipient has to control the ball. As you say this slows things down & allows the opposition defence to regroup. Marv has never scored for us & his only contribution to a goal that I can remember was for JC's winner in the cup replay. I won't be upset if Marvin plays on Tuesday but we were much better when he was replaced yesterday.

[Hillsidehibby]

Drop McGinn the undroppable.

This

[Tornadoes70]

I'd definitely have Bartley playing from the start as the Yams can get very physical and Bartley's not just a big physical presence he's expert in breaking up opposition play and providing our flair players with possession. I'd play a conventional 442 with Shaw, Murray or Big Dave if available to partner Stokesy up front.

GGTTH

[IGRIGI]

Bartley is MOTM material in every derby he's played, we know how Levein sets his teams up for a derby, I'd have Bartley in kicking arse and taking names from the get go.

[rcarter1]

Marvin Bartley is the first name on the team sheet every single week

MUST start against Hearts

:thumbsup:

Has been a monster vs the Jambos, and is key. I would have had Marvin Bartley as the first player on the team sheet vs Celtic, Hearts, Rangers and potentially all SPL sides. In the rare situation when we will have the ball by default, perhaps someone could come in his place. Looking forward to Tuesday, but expect a really tough game.

[ancient hibee]

Bartley is not the midfield problem.The other midfielders are.None of them play far enough forward.When McGeouch and McGinn (good passers both)spread the ball wide they make absolutely no attempt to get into the area to get on the end of the ball coming in.McGinn is particularly bad at standing still after he has passed the ball.

[thebausburst]

Agree.

100%

[Tyler Durden]

Bartley is not the midfield problem.The other midfielders are.None of them play far enough forward.When McGeouch and McGinn (good passers both)spread the ball wide they make absolutely no attempt to get into the area to get on the end of the ball coming in.McGinn is particularly bad at standing still after he has passed the ball.

I agree and this is so regularly evident that it's annoying that Lennon doesn't seem to have done anything about it. As a team we often lack numbers in the box.

Re the OP, I can see the argument. Bartley has been tremendous in his derby appearances but Hearts at the moment don't have the same threat they've had in the past few years. They're picking from a midfield pool of Randall, Cowie, Buaben, Callachan and a few promising young guys. We don't necessarily need Marv against these chumps.

But having said all that I would probably play safe and pick Bartley, Dylan, McGinn with Boyle wide and 2 forwards.

Can't wait to beat these jokers

[Captain Trips]

We shouldn't lose creativity if MB is playing he is one of 4/5 midfielders. We lack creativity in general as we have chopped and changed the midfield a fair bit I would say.

We lack guile and have done for a while MB not playing doesn't fix that. MB is there to allow others to create the onus is on them.

MB should certainly start on Tuesday.

[Bishop Hibee]

Drop McGinn the undroppable.

You’ve posted a few erratic comments on here over the years but that’s right up there. The Hearts players would be celebrating before the game kicked off. Of course Lennon wouldn’t do something so daft thankfully. He has big decisions to make regarding selection but that’s not one.

[JimboHibs]

Marvin Bartley is the first name on the team sheet every single week

MUST start against Hearts

No he isn't & he also doesn't need to start against them.

[Onion]

Bartley is half the reason we've had a good record against Hearts in recent years. Unlike the previous five years of bottlers he faces the derby with absolutely no fear. Absolutely must start.

100% correct. There are certain games that Bartley was made to play in, and the derby is one.

Reason we’ve done well against that mob recently is because of the characters and winners we have, when they’ve had a team of bottlers who couldn’t walk the talk. Bartley will own the middle of the park.

[brog]

100% correct. There are certain games that Bartley was made to play in, and the derby is one.

Reason we’ve done well against that mob recently is because of the characters and winners we have, when they’ve had a team of bottlers who couldn’t walk the talk. Bartley will own the middle of the park.

I actually think it was AS who changed our mindset vs Yams. We lost, only because we missed a pen, in AS' 2nd league game then haven't lost since. Our midfield in the other 3 games that season tended not to have a ball winner. We even drew at PBS in the New Year game with an all left footed back 4 in the 2nd half & a midfield of Handling, Craig, Allan & Robertson, the same midfield who helped us thrash Sevco 4-0. As I said, I'll be happy enough if Marvin plays but I think we have the quality to beat Yams (& the other league teams) without a midfield ball winner.

[WeeRussell]

I'd play Bartley, he's been immense in every derby he's featured in.

Agree. I think his form alone against them is enough to get him a start. Had a claim for Man of the Match in almost every game he's played against them.

If they turn it into a battle tomorrow night, we want our battlers.

[WeeRussell]

Drop McGinn the undroppable.

Why?

[Pretty Boy]

It's interesting the views on Bartley, he's been a regular in our indifferent start to the season and, in my opinion, our most complete midfield performance of the season (1st 10 minutes excepted) came at Ibrox with him out the side.

He has previously done well against Hearts but he was also left out of other big games that we performed well in. I won't be at all upset if Bartley plays tomorrow but he's not essential either imo. I've certainly not seen enough from him this season to suggest he deserves to be undroppable, I don't think anyone falls into the bracket thus far tbh.

[patlowe]

Bartley's football is never going to win any beauty contests but his aggression and performances in derbies over the years make him one of the first names on the teamsheet for tomorrow IMO. If he didn't play there would be a few Hearts midfielders breathing a sigh of relief, put it that way.

As for the suggestion we should drop McGinn :greengrin must be a windup surely? Yes, he is pretty much undroppable, because he's a brilliant footballer.

[18Hibee75]

I'd play Bartley, he's been immense in every derby he's featured in.And pretty much every 'big' game he's played in since being with us.

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[18Hibee75]

Bartley is not the midfield problem.The other midfielders are.None of them play far enough forward.When McGeouch and McGinn (good passers both)spread the ball wide they make absolutely no attempt to get into the area to get on the end of the ball coming in.McGinn is particularly bad at standing still after he has passed the ball.Agree 100%. One of the first things you get taught at grassroots level as a midfielder.

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[eastcoasthibby]

Playing Bartley with a back 4 ..gives us a back 5 giving us only 5 players to use for attacking and amidst that we have a couple of midfielder a who aren't renowned as attacking payers ..so we then end up with only about 3 real attacking threats ..! I get it that Bartley does a job but its an extra man in midfield that's not needed when we need a player up front ...not sure we need him against Hertz cos we do need a greater goal threat !!! But will NL take make that move ..I think we need to be a lot slicker in thwball going forward and not sure Bartley does that for us ..watching team selection on Tuesday with interest ....