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cleanyman
21-10-2017, 01:17 PM
If we can cut out the individual errors, play players in the right position and give Stokes some support I reckon we will do okay

I thought the last half hour was good but that's no excuse for the first half in particular. We have a defence like a civ and it needs sorting.

JeMeSouviens
21-10-2017, 01:25 PM
First 2 goals, a forward switches off defending and a keeper howler. Whole team needs to defend. We can’t keep giving teams a free start.

Jones28
21-10-2017, 01:26 PM
If we play the team that finished the game on Tuesday - maybe less Ollie Shaw but maybe not - then we will pump hearts

Northernhibee
21-10-2017, 01:27 PM
If we want to give ourselves a chance we need to be set up right from the start and boy oh boy we were set up incorrectly from the start. Not for the first time it has to be said either.

lyonhibs
21-10-2017, 01:31 PM
"If we can cut out the individual errors" has been our biggest "if" for my entire lifetime. It won't happen and it's the same for all other teams in Scotland.

We'll beat Hearts if we want it more.

cleanyman
21-10-2017, 01:32 PM
As I've vaguely pointed out in the OP I don't believe we were set up correctly. It was the same against Aberdeen and is a regular occurrence this season

It was too easy for Celtic at times and Tuesday is a huge game for Neil Lennon

Cat Stanton
21-10-2017, 01:42 PM
If we can cut out the individual errors, play players in the right position and give Stokes some support I reckon we will do okay

I thought the last half hour was good but that's no excuse for the first half in particular. We have a defence like a civ and it needs sorting.

What's a civ?

cleanyman
21-10-2017, 02:36 PM
What's a civ?

Siv. Civ. Whatever it is.

Pretty Boy
21-10-2017, 02:39 PM
We need to stop gifting teams soft leads. How many times have we lost the 1st goal this season?

It's so sloppy and it's habitual so there is obviously an issue that needs resolved.

Keith_M
21-10-2017, 02:39 PM
Siv. Civ. Whatever it is.


Sieve?

Keith_M
21-10-2017, 02:43 PM
We need to stop gifting teams soft leads. How many times have we lost the 1st goal this season?

It's so sloppy and it's habitual so there is obviously an issue that needs resolved.



In the league, it's been seven out of nine.

Pretty Boy
21-10-2017, 02:47 PM
In the league, it's been seven out of nine.

That's brutal. No wonder we are struggling to put any kind of winning run together.

Smartie
21-10-2017, 02:49 PM
We need to stop gifting teams soft leads. How many times have we lost the 1st goal this season?

It's so sloppy and it's habitual so there is obviously an issue that needs resolved.

It's driving me up the wall.

The first goal is often very important.

We can't expect to keep giving teams leads and get away with it.

We've actually done very well to claw our way back into so many games, and Lennon did well to make the necessary changes and improve us for the second half.

I don't know what it is - laziness, concentration, lack of a ability, leadership, not knowing roles at set pieces, incorrect team selections, possibly a combination of all of the above.

But it needs to be sorted, and quick.

There's a lot to like about our team and squad, but they really need to cut out these avoidable mistakes.

Smartie
21-10-2017, 02:51 PM
In the league, it's been seven out of nine.

You can add the League Cup quarter and semi finals to that as well.

An appalling record.

allmodcons
21-10-2017, 02:52 PM
If we want to give ourselves a chance we need to be set up right from the start and boy oh boy we were set up incorrectly from the start. Not for the first time it has to be said either.

Not sure I agree with this. Set up in first half was fine. Both goals came from individual errors but, that apart, Celtic didn't cause us any problems first half.

We were certainly better second half but, being 2-0 down, had no option but to play a high press.

Playing a high press from the kick off against a good side like Celtic leaves you open to being caught on the counter and they have a number of players capable of taking advantage.

Overall I though we did OK today. Cut out the individual errors and we are there or thereabouts.

wfortune
21-10-2017, 03:01 PM
Not sure I agree with this. Set up in first half was fine. Both goals came from individual errors but, that apart, Celtic didn't cause us any problems first half.

We were certainly better second half but, being 2-0 down, had no option but to play a high press.

Playing a high press from the kick off against a good side like Celtic leaves you open to being caught on the counter and they have a number of players capable of taking advantage.

Overall I though we did OK today. Cut out the individual errors and we are there or thereabouts.Celtic might not have been causing problems but neither were we. I don't think we have the players to play with a lone striker as there is no one from midfield who gets beyond the striker.

Sent from my F3111 using Tapatalk

noz
21-10-2017, 03:05 PM
As I've vaguely pointed out in the OP I don't believe we were set up correctly. It was the same against Aberdeen and is a regular occurrence this season

It was too easy for Celtic at times and Tuesday is a huge game for Neil Lennon

I agree, set up was all wrong, Sutton was right, we should have taken the game to them.
Back 5 was fine, I would have had Whittaker on the right and Swanson on left with Murray up with Stokes.
If ur going to play one up then you need support and Stokes didnt have any.
No surprise when we scored we had 2 up front.

Sammy7nil
21-10-2017, 03:06 PM
First 2 goals, a forward switches off defending and a keeper howler. Whole team needs to defend. We can’t keep giving teams a free start.

Barker was bad but Hanlon equally so totally switched expecting Leigh to have a shot from the free kick.

Northernhibee
21-10-2017, 03:12 PM
My opinion's not popular but I can't help but worry that the three year deal for NL is a mistake. The evidence is there - we aren't set up properly when we start games. Not to say get rid but the jury is very much out on him IMO.

IMO - 6th in the league just now just isn't good enough with the squad at our disposal.

allmodcons
21-10-2017, 03:13 PM
Celtic might not have been causing problems but neither were we. I don't think we have the players to play with a lone striker as there is no one from midfield who gets beyond the striker.

Sent from my F3111 using Tapatalk

I don't disagree but game plan was to keep it tight and stay in the match in 1st half. There is no accounting for individual errors.

I think it's fair to say that they have better players than us. If beating them was as easy as playing a high press from the kick off why have they gone so long unbeaten?

I'll say again, we did OK today. Disappointing yes, but by no means disgraced.

By the way, anyone who thinks Lennon is under pressure after losing to the top 2 sides in the country is living in cloud cuckoo land.

B.H.F.C
21-10-2017, 03:24 PM
I don't disagree but game plan was to keep it tight and stay in the match in 1st half. There is no accounting for individual errors.

I think it's fair to say that they have better players than us. If beating them was as easy as playing a high press from the kick off why have they gone so long unbeaten?

I'll say again, we did OK today. Disappointing yes, but by no means disgraced.

By the way, anyone who thinks Lennon is under pressure after losing to the top 2 sides in the country is living in cloud cuckoo land.

If we don't get a decent result on Tuesday the pressure will start to build. One win in seven as it stands in the league. Big improvement needed.

SingaporeHibs
21-10-2017, 03:44 PM
Thank god we ended up with enough CHs or we would be in worse trouble. The quicker a fit McGregor is back the better. Fonts would also have helped recently. Lennon needs to start getting it right though. He can't keep blaming the team (something he has done on occasion). Individual errors is one thing (he can't help that) but the formation, team selection and strategy is down to him. I don't think he ever nailed the best side or formation last season and I think we're seeing the same again this year. By now, he should know the starting 11 and the formation. I don't think he knows.

Northernhibee
21-10-2017, 03:44 PM
If we don't get a decent result on Tuesday the pressure will start to build. One win in seven as it stands in the league. Big improvement needed.

Yep. This "natural born winner" stuff rings hollow when you don't win that often.

Moulin Yarns
21-10-2017, 03:49 PM
Sieve?

colander?

CmoantheHibs
21-10-2017, 04:00 PM
Not sure I agree with this. Set up in first half was fine. Both goals came from individual errors but, that apart, Celtic didn't cause us any problems first half.

We were certainly better second half but, being 2-0 down, had no option but to play a high press.

Playing a high press from the kick off against a good side like Celtic leaves you open to being caught on the counter and they have a number of players capable of taking advantage.

Overall I though we did OK today. Cut out the individual errors and we are there or thereabouts.

This sums up my feelings on it. I am disappointed we are out but thought we played pretty well. It will be a totally different game in the derby and I feel we will get back on track and everything will be rosy again.

Tyler Durden
21-10-2017, 04:08 PM
I don't disagree but game plan was to keep it tight and stay in the match in 1st half. There is no accounting for individual errors.

I think it's fair to say that they have better players than us. If beating them was as easy as playing a high press from the kick off why have they gone so long unbeaten?

I'll say again, we did OK today. Disappointing yes, but by no means disgraced.

By the way, anyone who thinks Lennon is under pressure after losing to the top 2 sides in the country is living in cloud cuckoo land.

That game plan is fine and I agree that we couldn't go really open.

But last week we had major problems with getting support to Stokes. Our two wide players didn't get into the box and neither did McGeouch or McGinn. To repeat that today was majorly disappointing.

Lennon said yesterday we had worked on finishing during the week. Our problem last week wasn't missing chances, it was creating them.

I'm still confident we'll go with a more expansive game on Tuesday and win. But Lennon has set us up wrong in both semi finals he's played so far IMO

madhibee_again
21-10-2017, 04:25 PM
Barker was bad but Hanlon equally so totally switched expecting Leigh to have a shot from the free kick.

Was at the game so not seen the replays, but for me Hanlon was immense the whole game. Bossed it.

Sammy7nil
21-10-2017, 05:24 PM
Was at the game so not seen the replays, but for me Hanlon was immense the whole game. Bossed it.

Griffith's hit the freekick straight to him he fluffed his clearance giving ball back to them 25 yards out 5 seconds later it was one nil.

I agree he played well but that was very poor.

Pete
21-10-2017, 05:29 PM
colander?

Is this the new colander thread?

The_Horde
21-10-2017, 05:30 PM
We need to stop gifting teams soft leads. How many times have we lost the 1st goal this season?

It's so sloppy and it's habitual so there is obviously an issue that needs resolved.

Wouldn't happen under Stubbs.

Hi Heid Yin
21-10-2017, 06:56 PM
Our defence has simply not gelled this season and we have looked suspect in most games.
Individual errors by quality individual players have led to some unbelievable goals being conceded. No manager can be held responsible for individual mistakes. Little wonder Neil Lennon gets frustrated and angry watching us concede so cheaply.
Soft goals conceded leads to a lack of confidence and tension not only in fellow defenders but the whole team.
We have fallen behind in most games and put ourselves under pressure to get back on a level-footing, which to be fair, we have managed to do, only to then repeat the same mistakes in other games.
Some posters think that we are being set up wrongly, but when you see the pre-match defensive line up, with players in their rightful and natural position, the set up argument makes no sense.

Billy Whizz
21-10-2017, 06:57 PM
Our defence has simply not gelled this season and we have looked suspect in most games.
Individual errors by quality individual players have led to some unbelievable goals being conceded. No manager can be held responsible for individual mistakes. Little wonder Neil Lennon gets frustrated and angry watching us concede so cheaply.
Soft goals conceded leads to a lack of confidence and tension not only in fellow defenders but the whole team.
We have fallen behind in most games and put ourselves under pressure to get back on a level-footing, which to be fair, we have managed to do, only to then repeat the same mistakes in other games.
Some posters think that we are being set up wrongly, but when you see the pre-match defensive line up, with players in their rightful and natural position, the set up argument makes no sense.

Doesn’t help that we have a different back 4/5 practically every game

Northernhibee
21-10-2017, 07:07 PM
Our defence has simply not gelled this season and we have looked suspect in most games.
Individual errors by quality individual players have led to some unbelievable goals being conceded. No manager can be held responsible for individual mistakes. Little wonder Neil Lennon gets frustrated and angry watching us concede so cheaply.
Soft goals conceded leads to a lack of confidence and tension not only in fellow defenders but the whole team.
We have fallen behind in most games and put ourselves under pressure to get back on a level-footing, which to be fair, we have managed to do, only to then repeat the same mistakes in other games.
Some posters think that we are being set up wrongly, but when you see the pre-match defensive line up, with players in their rightful and natural position, the set up argument makes no sense.

In seven out of nine league games we've lost the first goal. The set up argument makes every sense.

bordergreen
21-10-2017, 07:17 PM
Yep. This "natural born winner" stuff rings hollow when you don't win that often.

Not looking for an argument, but I thought Lennon's post match interview was spot on. He set us up to contain them with the option to change as the game went on. I thought Laidlaw was woeful in the first half today, made some great saves in the second. You can't give anyone a two goal start, especially Celtic. Hopefully Marciano is back for Hearts. The Whittaker/Boyle substitution was what was required, at the right time. The Shaw substitution was a good call too. Shaw's goal was very good, both he and Lenton should get credit for that. I am by no means a happy clapper, or a Lennon apologist, but think this is the best manager/squad combination we have had in my time watching Hibs. I am 47 in December. Lennon is absolutely a winner, and I can see that rubbing off on the squad. I think we are in a good place, and are only going to get better. Bring on the Jambo's.

Hi Heid Yin
21-10-2017, 07:22 PM
In seven out of nine league games we've lost the first goal. The set up argument makes every sense.

I'm focusing on the defensive set-up and I actually see a very strong-looking backline and keeper. We have quality individual defensive players in each position, but we are not playing as a cohesive, strong unit. So, for me, cutting out the individual errors and losing players running in is key to our keeping a clean sheet. If we are referring to the set-up outwith the defence then that's a different argument.

Hi Heid Yin
21-10-2017, 07:24 PM
Not looking for an argument, but I thought Lennon's post match interview was spot on. He set us up to contain them with the option to change as the game went on. I thought Laidlaw was woeful in the first half today, made some great saves in the second. You can't give anyone a two goal start, especially Celtic. Hopefully Marciano is back for Hearts. The Whittaker/Boyle substitution was what was required, at the right time. The Shaw substitution was a good call too. Shaw's goal was very good, both he and Lenton should get credit for that. I am by no means a happy clapper, or a Lennon apologist, but think this is the best manager/squad combination we have had in my time watching Hibs. I am 47 in December. Lennon is absolutely a winner, and I can see that rubbing off on the squad. I think we are in a good place, and are only going to get better. Bring on the Jambo's.

Good post. Some sound reasoned points made.
:top marks

Hi Heid Yin
21-10-2017, 07:29 PM
My opinion's not popular but I can't help but worry that the three year deal for NL is a mistake. The evidence is there - we aren't set up properly when we start games. Not to say get rid but the jury is very much out on him IMO.

IMO - 6th in the league just now just isn't good enough with the squad at our disposal.

I understand your frustration with Lennon, but this type of post should have been kept in reserve until the end of the season. Only then will our league position inform us how he as a manager has performed.
It's still too early in the season to arrive at any conclusions, as teams will occupy various positions throughout the campaign.

Sammy7nil
21-10-2017, 07:47 PM
Not looking for an argument, but I thought Lennon's post match interview was spot on. He set us up to contain them with the option to change as the game went on. I thought Laidlaw was woeful in the first half today, made some great saves in the second. You can't give anyone a two goal start, especially Celtic. Hopefully Marciano is back for Hearts. The Whittaker/Boyle substitution was what was required, at the right time. The Shaw substitution was a good call too. Shaw's goal was very good, both he and Lenton should get credit for that. I am by no means a happy clapper, or a Lennon apologist, but think this is the best manager/squad combination we have had in my time watching Hibs. I am 47 in December. Lennon is absolutely a winner, and I can see that rubbing off on the squad. I think we are in a good place, and are only going to get better. Bring on the Jambo's.

Did you miss Latapy and Sauzee then Broon Deek etc ?
Hubs have won two games in ten and have plenty to prove. Yes we can look good but we are miles away from any sort of consistency and on this form the top 6 will be a battle.

bordergreen
21-10-2017, 08:07 PM
Did you miss Latapy and Sauzee then Broon Deek etc ?
Hubs have won two games in ten and have plenty to prove. Yes we can look good but we are miles away from any sort of consistency and on this form the top 6 will be a battle.

Yep, given my age, I have seen those players. I have been a Hibee since I could say Hibs. As I said, not looking for an argument. In my opinion this squad/manager combination is something special. Also thought Barker looked special at times going forward today. As other posters have said on other threads, McGeough and Hanlon were great. I am firmly in the McGeouch is one of our best players camp. When we extend our winning run against them on Tuesday, we will all be feeling better. Mon the Hibees!

Sammy7nil
21-10-2017, 08:13 PM
Yep, given my age, I have seen those players. I have been a Hibee since I could say Hibs. As I said, not looking for an argument. In my opinion this squad/manager combination is something special. Also thought Barker looked special at times going forward today. As other posters have said on other threads, McGeough and Hanlon were great. I am firmly in the McGeouch is one of our best players camp. When we extend our winning run against them on Tuesday, we will all be feeling better. Mon the Hibees!

Yip GGTH and we will win on Tuesday :greengrin
But McLeish's team would murder this one. Different era and different finances but it really was way better.

bordergreen
21-10-2017, 08:17 PM
Yip GGTH and we will win on Tuesday :greengrin
But McLeish's team would murder this one. Different era and different finances but it really was way better.

We were on a bad losing run when McLeish left, as I said, best squad/manager I have seen. My opinion only, we all have one.

emerald green
21-10-2017, 08:39 PM
The last time Hibs went to Hampden we gave Aberdeen two goals of a start. Same again today. The second goal Hibs conceded today, coming just before half time, was really really poor.

Keith_M
21-10-2017, 09:11 PM
.... but think this is the best manager/squad combination we have had in my time watching Hibs. I am 47 in December.



I'm not meaning to knock your optimism but can't agree with that.

The McLeish and Mowbray teams were much better.

Northernhibee
21-10-2017, 10:28 PM
I'm not meaning to knock your optimism but can't agree with that.

The McLeish and Mowbray teams were much better.

I actually think that Stubbs' second season was better, we were unfortunate with our congested schedule, injuries and a resurgent Rangers in the same league. That squad played fantastic football when we got the chance.

ajf
22-10-2017, 05:34 AM
I'm starting to wonder if we're a team of bottlers , we play well when we're behind and there's nothing to lose and everybody wants the ball , but when the pressure's on we're a team that doesn't take responsibility and have players who are only too willing to pass the buck , deary me I hope I'm wrong but when I look back at the big games over the last couple of seasons I cant help but wonder