Klopp: Hit or Flop?

[theonlywayisup]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41567028

What's your thoughts on Jurgen Klopp?

He's certainly a character and was a refreshing new face down south. But, I'm not convinced he's taken Liverpool forward that much.

I don't follow an English team, so I've not got any strong feelings toward Liverpool. But, I do feel they should be in a better place than they currently are.

Thoughts?

[Pretty Boy]

Regardless of how realistic it is I suppose Liverpools ambition is still to be title challengers. In that regard they don't look much further forward than when he took over.

Going forward they look a good side but defensively they are a shambles and you won't outscore your opponents every week.

[calumhibee1]

He’s not taken them forward at all. The only reason there looks like there has been any form of improvement is because arsenal have went so far backwards. If he was British he’d have been binned by now.

[frazeHFC]

Not sorting the defence in the summer has already cost Liverpool. Great side to watch when on form, but terrible at the back.

[Ryan69]

Ive never understood what the huge attraction about him is.

In his last season at Dortmund...He wasnt that far off being relegated really.

[Salt N Sauzee]

Absolutely no doubt he's improved Liverpool.

[MWHIBBIES]

Absolutely no doubt he's improved Liverpool.

Indeed, Salah and Mane are exceptional players who would improve any attack.

[Salt N Sauzee]

Ive never understood what the huge attraction about him is.

In his last season at Dortmund...He wasnt that far off being relegated really.

They finished 7th :confused:

[MWHIBBIES]

Ive never understood what the huge attraction about him is.

In his last season at Dortmund...He wasnt that far off being relegated really.

Yes because his whole squad was injured until January...when they were fit he had them winning every week. That is easily the most lazy criticism of Klopp I've seen, there was nothing he could do.

[hibsforeurope]

Liverpool are a very much work in progress. I don't think anyone could have afforded the money it would have taken to transform them overnight into title winners. Klopp's success at Dortmund wasn't instant either, i think it'll take 3,4,5 years to get Liverpool to where he wants to be.

He's brought a bit passion and excitement back to the club, i think he will win trophies at Liverpool eventually.

[BigKev]

Interesting to see Rodgers has a better win record than him overall comparing their first 75 games.

I'm not sure he's improved Liverpool at all. Qualifying for the Champions League should be a minimum requirement for any Liverpool boss.

[Smartie]

It's a tough league with some good sides.

Whilst Liverpool should have lofty ambitions, the cash of City and Chelsea is hard to compete with, as well as the size of Man United. Spurs have a good side that has been developing for a while, Arsenal (in spite of their recent woes) are a big club who should regularly compete. Leicester had their superb season a couple of seasons ago.

Liverpool are coming from quite a way back. He HAS improved them, maybe not as much as some might have wanted or expected.

At least their problems are blatant for everyone to see. All he needs to do is cobble together a half-decent defence instead of the laughing stock they currently have, whilst holding onto their forward players (the hard bit) and they'll be contenders again.

Just because everyone else panics and sacks the manager when things aren't perfect doesn't make it right.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Interesting to see Rodgers has a better win record than him overall comparing their first 75 games.

I'm not sure he's improved Liverpool at all. Qualifying for the Champions League should be a minimum requirement for any Liverpool boss.

:agree: If it wasn't for Gerrard slipping he'd probably be a title winning manager too.

[lyonhibs]

He's not won anything but that's not really a big deal for Liverpool in the last decade or so - 1 League Cup since 2006 if I'm not wrong.

I like Klopp, think he's a good guy and when his team is firing on all cylinders they're great but you'll never win a title without a standout keeper and 2 steady centre backs that don't have 4/10 horror shows every so often (Lovren being the current case in point). An inability to finish teams off is also their other achilles heel.

So neither a big hit of a massive flop for me, but I can't see them reestablishing themselves in the very top echelon of world football with him at the helm.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

Liverpool are a very much work in progress. I don't think anyone could have afforded the money it would have taken to transform them overnight into title winners. Klopp's success at Dortmund wasn't instant either, i think it'll take 3,4,5 years to get Liverpool to where he wants to be.

He's brought a bit passion and excitement back to the club, i think he will win trophies at Liverpool eventually.

And therein lies the crux of the problem. Time.

Managers are rarely given time to turn things around, particularly these days with the money involved (unless you're Arsene Wenger of course)

If he continues to finish in the champions league slots he'll be given time. Failure to do so will see him gone imo.

Rightly or wrongly, that's how football is. 25% of managers in the English premiership have been in charge for 3+ years.

Can't imagine the stats for producing an progressing home grown talent will be particularly high either. Such is the money and cut throat nature of it all. Same happens up here only on a much, much smaller scale

[hibsbollah]

We'll know in May. They have improved but just don't have the players or budget that City Chelsea and United do. Yet.

[blackpoolhibs]

What is success for liverpool these days, they cant win the league, so its only cups and a top 4 finish that will really be classed as taking the club forward.

So by finishing in the top 4 he's had a bit of success, although i have my doubts they will do that again this season, so it will be all about the cups.

For me he's definitely a character, but the mickey mousers will soon get fed up with quick quotes and funny interviews.

Unless there is a huge influx of money at the club, we will see more of the same and maybe the odd league cup in my opinion.

[LNHibs]

He has improved Liverpool - no question. They are so much more exciting to watch but the defence has not been addressed which is hsi only downfall.

Rodgers had a good season - but the main reason for that was he had arguably one of the best players on the planet in the form of his life which single handedly took them to the next level. Alot of sides had poorer years that year aswell. I go down to Anfield alot and i enjoy it alot more under Klopp

[surreyhibbie]

I think he's a great character, always good to hear his interviews.

Honest and open and entertaining at the same time

Improved Liverpool ? dunno :confused:

Give him a bit longer and I think he could do relatively well. I used to have a soft spot for them in the 70's when they were arguably the best club side in the world. Certainly in Europe.

They even managed to hold us to a 1-0 at Easter Road... :-)

[hibsforeurope]

Interesting to see Rodgers has a better win record than him overall comparing their first 75 games.

I'm not sure he's improved Liverpool at all. Qualifying for the Champions League should be a minimum requirement for any Liverpool boss.

Rodger's results are skewed by Suarez's goals winning points by out scoring teams. Liverpool, or anyone for that matter, would struggle to replace that amount of goals from a single player.

[Pretty Boy]

He has improved Liverpool - no question. They are so much more exciting to watch but the defence has not been addressed which is hsi only downfall.

Rodgers had a good season - but the main reason for that was he had arguably one of the best players on the planet in the form of his life which single handedly took them to the next level. Alot of sides had poorer years that year aswell. I go down to Anfield alot and i enjoy it alot more under Klopp

It's an interesting argument about being good to watch. My issue with that is it's subjective whilst trophies and European football in April and May is tangible. If Liverpool really still aspire to be a force in football they are the only measures that matter.

The defence and particularly the goalkeeper situation seems almost unforgivable to me. Mignolet has proven time and again he isn't going to fulfil his early potential and be a top class keeper. Teams arw slowly waking up to the fact that spending money on a goalkeeper is every bit as valuable as a striker and the market will go crazy within a couple og years.

This is probably a bit unfair as from what I have seen they have been pretty entertaining this season but look at Mourinho and United. If they seriously challenge for the league this year and are playing in the latter stages in Europe, neither of which looks unrealistic currently, then O can't see too many of their fans complaining about their style, in the short to medium term anyway.

[worcesterhibby]

They did finish top four last season and I do think he will improve them.

Had he managed to get a fit Van Dijk in as he wanted in the summer then they would no doubt be defensively better than they currently are. It will be interesting to see if he spends money on the defence during the January window.

The problem for top managers in England is that there are now six clubs whose fans/board seem to think that achieving a top four place is the minimum requirement for the team. That means that two will always be deemed to have failed, more often than not, that will result in the manager losing his job, however that also so often results in the "plan" going back to square 1.

Certainly I feel Liverpool should stick with him for at least another two seasons, to give him time to really impose his own way of working on the club. It's an example that is used a lot, but just look at the benefits that Man Utd reaped by keeping Alex Ferguson on for 4 unsuccessful seasons before he finally won the FA cup and began Utd's resurgence as a force in football.

[BigKev]

Rodger's results are skewed by Suarez's goals winning points by out scoring teams. Liverpool, or anyone for that matter, would struggle to replace that amount of goals from a single player.

It's all subjective and you could argue Liverpool would have been outwith the CL places without Coutinho's displays last season. Both he and Suarez are world class players.

[hibsforeurope]

It's all subjective and you could argue Liverpool would have been outwith the CL places without Coutinho's displays last season. Both he and Suarez are world class players.

Agree both are world class players but Suarez scored far more goals for Rodgers than Coutinho Scored/created last season.

[Michael]

It's all subjective and you could argue Liverpool would have been outwith the CL places without Coutinho's displays last season. Both he and Suarez are world class players.

Courtinho is nowhere close to world class.

[BigKev]

Courtinho is nowhere close to world class.

Yeah... Barcelona are forever bidding in excess of £100 million for players nowhere near world class right enough...

[LNHibs]

It's an interesting argument about being good to watch. My issue with that is it's subjective whilst trophies and European football in April and May is tangible. If Liverpool really still aspire to be a force in football they are the only measures that matter.

The defence and particularly the goalkeeper situation seems almost unforgivable to me. Mignolet has proven time and again he isn't going to fulfil his early potential and be a top class keeper. Teams arw slowly waking up to the fact that spending money on a goalkeeper is every bit as valuable as a striker and the market will go crazy within a couple og years.

This is probably a bit unfair as from what I have seen they have been pretty entertaining this season but look at Mourinho and United. If they seriously challenge for the league this year and are playing in the latter stages in Europe, neither of which looks unrealistic currently, then O can't see too many of their fans complaining about their style, in the short to medium term anyway.

Completely see your point of view with that one, and difficult to disagree with the Style vs Success which Mourinho has had alot of success but not in the most enjoyable manner. If im honest id rather be succesful than pretty to watch but at the same time its a good buzz walking into the ground and knowing youve got the likes of Mane Salah Firmino Coutinho Lallana etc going gung-ho. I was at Spurs, Arsenal & Everton games last year and in each game they blew them away in the first 15 mins was outstanding, but doesnt mean alot when u cant beat the lesser sides.

[lyonhibs]

To be fair, Barca's 2 last big signings struggled with keepie uppies..............

[Michael]

Yeah... Barcelona are forever bidding in excess of £100 million for players nowhere near world class right enough...

And PSG spent £150m on a guy who played half a season. The fee doesn't mean much.

[jacomo]

I like him.

They needed to sign a top class defender in the summer and failed. Is that his fault or the Boards?

[Northernhibee]

Way too early to tell. Needs another couple of seasons before the full picture will become apparent.

[MWHIBBIES]

Courtinho is nowhere close to world class.

I often wonder if people understand what "nowhere near" means on here. It is used so often to describe things which are very close or actually there. Coutinho is very close to if not world class. Liam Craig is an example of nowhere near world class.

[Keith_M]

Ive never understood what the huge attraction about him is.

In his last season at Dortmund...He wasnt that far off being relegated really.



In 2015, They finished 7th, clinching the last European qualifying spot, despite injuries and consistently having their best players poached by Bayern.


Back to the question: Liverpool are owned by Yanks, not a Russian Oligarch or an Arab Prince. They'll probably be relatively poor relations in England for a while yet, so Klopp doesn't exactly have an easy task.

[LNHibs]

It's all subjective and you could argue Liverpool would have been outwith the CL places without Coutinho's displays last season. Both he and Suarez are world class players.

Coutinho was good last year but wouldn't say he was even our best player, whereas Suarez was head and shoulders above anyone else in the league that year. Not really a comparison

[Beefster]

They finished 7th :confused:

Facts are all very well but if they had finished only 10 places lower, they’d have been relegated.

[Ryan69]

They finished 7th :confused:


you just looked at their final position.

They finished season with about 6 wins,but until that run....They were in real danger the whole season.

[Ryan69]

Yes because his whole squad was injured until January...when they were fit he had them winning every week. That is easily the most lazy criticism of Klopp I've seen, there was nothing he could do.


So last season in Germany...he struggled.
Whole time at Liverpool....seems tobe a struggle.

notice a pattern here.

[Salt N Sauzee]

Facts are all very well but if they had finished only 10 places lower, they’d have been relegated.

Is that you, Mark Warburton?

[Michael]

I often wonder if people understand what "nowhere near" means on here. It is used so often to describe things which are very close or actually there. Coutinho is very close to if not world class. Liam Craig is an example of nowhere near world class.

Would Courtinho even get in the City, United or Chelsea teams?

[Salt N Sauzee]

you just looked at their final position.

They finished season with about 6 wins,but until that run....They were in real danger the whole season.

Isn't the final position all that matters? If they really were in danger all season they surely won't of finished that high up the league.

Looking at that season from match-day 17 to 34 (Halfway through the season) they lost 5, won 9 and drew 4 league games and took themselves from rock-bottom to 7th. Hardly a close call.

I'm pretty sure any team who lost players like Lewandowski and Gotze to their main rivals would of seen a drop in league position like they did.

[R'Albin]

Would Courtinho even get in the City, United or Chelsea teams?

No but I could see him getting a trial.

[Salt N Sauzee]

Would Courtinho even get in the City, United or Chelsea teams?

Probably not. But Coutinho would!

[Brooster]

Flop. Acts the goat to cover his shortcomings. Similar to Strachan.

[MWHIBBIES]

Would Courtinho even get in the City, United or Chelsea teams?City have 3 top class attacking midfielders but yes, he would compete with them for a spot for sure. Could he compete with Mata for a spot in Uniteds team? Absolutely. Chelsea don't really play with his type of player so hard to say.

People love a circle jerk about these overrated English players at clubs they dislike, strange that we cant just enjoy watching them.


So last season in Germany...he struggled.
Whole time at Liverpool....seems tobe a struggle.

notice a pattern here.

No. Half his team was injured so they struggled. He won the league twice as well, you know that right?

[hibs#1]

I saw a tweet comparing his and mourinhos last 46 games I believe it was,klopps record is better in that time period,I know stats can be misleading but does add to the arguement.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Well his team aren't boring that's for sure, but I doubt that will count for much if he doesn't win something or at the very least finish in the top 4 by the end of next season. There's no doubt his personality is going a long way towards keeping the fans onside, you just cant help liking the guy.

[jgl07]

Ive never understood what the huge attraction about him is.

In his last season at Dortmund...He wasnt that far off being relegated really.

Hardly. They finished seventh and qualified for the Europa League

[Michael]

I saw a tweet comparing his and mourinhos last 46 games I believe it was,klopps record is better in that time period,I know stats can be misleading but does add to the arguement.

Well, United were 6th last season so it's not surprising.

[IlDiavola]

That defence :tsk tsk::tsk tsk:

[Scouse Hibee]

Folk seem to like his personality, I find it extremely irritating at times.
Not sure he has improved Liverpool at all really, I liken it to a sideways move rather than an upward one. Yes he has signed some great attacking flair players and his teams look great in full flow attacking and playing some great football. However it's all a bit disjointed when that same team can't succesfully defend, he doesn't seem to identify that as a priority given his transfer dealings and targets. Got a CL place which I suppose could be described as progress, but do we look like we can consistently sustain that type of challenge? At the moment no, so for me we are really no further forward than we were before he came.

[theonlywayisup]

Pretty even split poll result - so far 17 / 16 / 17 for all three options

[Hibernia&Alba]

I think qualifying for the Champions League for the first time in several years is evidence of improvement. I think he's a top manager and Liverpool could be a very good side, once the defence is fixed. I'm hoping their comedy show at the back continues against United :agree:

[ekhibee]

A lot of people seem to rate Coutinho as world class, but for me he's nowhere near consistent enough to come into that category. At the same time that's only my opinion, as I'm not a Liverpool fan and obviously haven't attended any of the games he's been playing in. He's definitely got the ability, but IMO, particularly against the top sides in the league, too often he's posted missing or ineffective. He's scored some brilliant goals, and his assists are probably numerous as well, but he's not, in my opinion, worth anything like the figure quoted for Barcelona. That said, he's still got loads of potential and could easily become a world class player in the future. Is he not quite injury prone as well? He seems to have missed a fair amount of games in his time at Liverpool. I'm sure the Liverpool fans on here will be able to correct me if I'm wrong though.

[heretoday]

It's no surprise that I am a bit Goodison-minded.

In short - I love the Toffees. When we went down to Liverpool a year ago we went right into the club and no one stopped us.

We spoke to the manager - Koeman - and some of the players like Holgate, Bainsey and Jagielka. Fantastic people. They really love their team.

And so do I.

[jgl07]

Unfair to blame Klopp for Liverpool's shortcomings.

Their 'transfer committee' policy is insane. It is based on the American Sports idea of Moneyball.

Who they can sign and who they can't sign is determined by a committee of Yanks who know sweet FA about football. Everything is determined by a formula taking account of sell on prices etc.

One of Manchester City's best recent signings is Fernadino who was 28 when he arrived. Liverpool would never have been allowed to spend big money on a 28 year old because there would be no prospect of a big sell on price.

[hibsbollah]

More evidence today that Klopp has the tactical acumen to dominate teams, but he needs to find someone to be the fox in the box to turn slowly this possession into goals. I'd give Sturridge a run for a few games.

[Pretty Boy]

More evidence today that Klopp has the tactical acumen to dominate teams, but he needs to find someone to be the fox in the box to turn slowly this possession into goals. I'd give Sturridge a run for a few games.

I think today probably illustrates why only one of these teams will be competitive come the end of the season. United were poor but came away with a draw and now have 9 clean sheets in their last 10. Liverpool dominated but couldn't find a way to win and now have 1 win in their last 8 games.

It's the classic team playing poorly finding a way to snatch something v team playing well failing to capitalise.

[hibsbollah]

I think today probably illustrates why only one of these teams will be competitive come the end of the season. United were poor but came away with a draw and now have 9 clean sheets in their last 10. Liverpool dominated but couldn't find a way to win and now have 1 win in their last 8 games.

It's the classic team playing poorly finding a way to snatch something v team playing well failing to capitalise.

But from a United point of view, this is a Liverpool defence getting a hammering from most forward lines they've come up against, but what does José do? Go for the jugular? Nah. Leave Lukaku up front on his own and park the bus with the other nine defending all afternoon. He's got a point, but if they want to win the league they'll have to do better than that. Without de gea they would have lost today, and they'll be casting envious eyes over at the etihad.

[Pretty Boy]

Good effort by Klopp today but still falling short in his quest for most laughable performances out of Merseyside. Koeman just wanted it a little bit more.

[Iggy Pope]

Good effort by Klopp today but still falling short in his quest for most laughable performances out of Merseyside. Koeman just wanted it a little bit more.

Losing to Huddersfield is on the podium too, albeit non Mersey.

[Pretty Boy]

Losing to Huddersfield is on the podium too, albeit non Mersey.Indeed.

They should really just give Man City the title now and save everyone the bother, they are miles ahead of everyone else.

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[SeanWilson]

Unfair to blame Klopp for Liverpool's shortcomings.

Their 'transfer committee' policy is insane. It is based on the American Sports idea of Moneyball.

Who they can sign and who they can't sign is determined by a committee of Yanks who know sweet FA about football. Everything is determined by a formula taking account of sell on prices etc.

One of Manchester City's best recent signings is Fernadino who was 28 when he arrived. Liverpool would never have been allowed to spend big money on a 28 year old because there would be no prospect of a big sell on price.

Complete fallacy.

[Iain G]

More evidence today that Klopp has the tactical acumen to dominate teams, but he needs to find someone to be the fox in the box to turn slowly this possession into goals. I'd give Sturridge a run for a few games.

If Daniel Sturridge is the answer then they are doomed!

[Sammy7nil]

]If Daniel Sturridge is the answer [/B]then they are doomed!

Your asking the wrong question

[hibs#1]

Indeed.

They should really just give Man City the title now and save everyone the bother, they are miles ahead of everyone else.

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If spurs keep everyone fit for the most part they could be potential title challengers.

[DTS]

Flop and I’m a Liverpool fan. Two years in the job and our back five consists of 4 players signed by Rodgers when we conveniently couldn’t defend. I don’t care how good we are going forward which recently has been not too great either a manager either has to buy players or change the formation etc to make the team as solid as possible. I would have sold coutinho in the summer we have more than enough going forward to cover that loss and we could have brought in a keeper and a couple of centre halfs, if being greedy I’d want a goal scorer as well. Really not that far off from being a title contender we just need to sign players that can actually defend 2 players a gk and a cb and I genehinely think we’d be title contenders

[Haymaker]

Indeed.

They should really just give Man City the title now and save everyone the bother, they are miles ahead of everyone else.

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Long way to go

[Winston Ingram]

If spurs keep everyone fit for the most part they could be potential title challengers.

Spurs have pretty deep squad. That side today was missing Rose, Davies, Dier, Wanyama, Dembele & Lamela

[hibs#1]

Spurs have pretty deep squad. That side today was missing Rose, Davies, Dier, Wanyama, Dembele & Lamela

Hadn't realised they were missing that many,still think they can go well again this season.

[Scouse Hibee]

Flopp out.

[hibs#1]

Flopp out.

Who would you take that would make a real difference? Looking from the outside the biggest problem is recruitment not sure if that's true or Not?

[Michael]

I'd give him another year (including next summer). If they can get a quality defender in January and another defender and GK in the summer they'll be a force next season.

[easty]

I'd give him another year (including next summer). If they can get a quality defender in January and another defender and GK in the summer they'll be a force next season.

There may be more, but he's already signed 3 defenders - Matip and Klavan, average and brutal, and Andy Robertson who for some reason he doesn't play. He's also signed a GK who's ***** tae.

I'm not sure why he should be given 2 more transfer windows to get it right.

[Scouse Hibee]

I'd give him another year (including next summer). If they can get a quality defender in January and another defender and GK in the summer they'll be a force next season.

He's already had enough time to address the defensive problems and has failed miserably. Liverpool are going backwards under FLOPP.

[Scouse Hibee]

Who would you take that would make a real difference? Looking from the outside the biggest problem is recruitment not sure if that's true or Not?

Not my job to find a replacement. One thing is certain we are going backwards.

[blackpoolhibs]

There may be more, but he's already signed 3 defenders - Matip and Klavan, average and brutal, and Andy Robertson who for some reason he doesn't play. He's also signed a GK who's ***** tae.

I'm not sure why he should be given 2 more transfer windows to get it right.

To give us more laughs?

[JDHibs]

Any other manager would have been pumped by now. Attacking they are great when on form but they are horrendous at the back. Will never win anything with that defence.

Need 2 centre halfs and a keeper. Big time.

[BSEJVT]

Who would you take that would make a real difference? Looking from the outside the biggest problem is recruitment not sure if that's true or Not?

Bring back the waiter!

[lugz]

Football is about winning so no he's not improved them. Yeah they might be good going forward but that's no use when your conceding 2-4 goals every other week.