World Cup playoffs

[TRC]

That's a big goal for the Dutch, it's not over for them yet.

Really as it stands I think they need to beat Sweden 6-0!

[hibsbollah]

Really as it stands I think they need to beat Sweden 6-0!

:faf: aye it's a long shot. They need to start banging them in this half.

[Billy Whizz]

Really as it stands I think they need to beat Sweden 6-0!

Even if you take away results against the bottom team?
I’ve never known a more confusing qualifying tournament than this one

[CropleyWasGod]

Even if you take away results against the bottom team?
I’ve never known a more confusing qualifying tournament than this oneYou don't take those results away in deciding the order in the group. That's done to decide the best runners-up.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[Sir David Gray]

Even if you take away results against the bottom team?
I’ve never known a more confusing qualifying tournament than this one

Games against the bottom team still count for the actual group standings, they only get dismissed when calculating the second placed teams.

The Netherlands need to win tonight and then beat Sweden 7-0 on Tuesday to get into second place.

[hibsbollah]

Games against the bottom team still count for the actual group standings, they only get dismissed when calculating the second placed teams.

The Netherlands need to win tonight and then beat Sweden 7-0 on Tuesday to get into second place.

With the obvious caveat that if they score more goals tonight they would need to beat Sweden by less than seven.

[Sir David Gray]

With the obvious caveat that if they score more goals tonight they would need to beat Sweden by less than seven.

Yes of course.

Portugal have finally broken down Andorra and gone 1-0 up thanks to Ronaldo.

I honestly don't think they would be anywhere near qualifying for major tournaments (never mind actually winning them as they did at the Euros last year) without him.

[hibsbollah]

Belarus equalise 1-1. It's over for the Dutch.

[Sir David Gray]

Belarus equalise 1-1. It's over for the Dutch.

Sorry when you made your last post in reply to me about the Netherlands I thought you knew about that.

When I said they needed to win, I just meant they had to score again to go 2-1 up.

[Col2]

With the obvious caveat that if they score more goals tonight they would need to beat Sweden by less than seven.

It's head to head before goal difference so no they don't. But they do need to win!

[Billy Whizz]

You don't take those results away in deciding the order in the group. That's done to decide the best runners-up.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

Ok ta

[Billy Whizz]

2-1 to Holland/Netherlands
The wee General looks like he’s kept their hopes alive

[Col2]

BBC saying it doesn't matter as Dutch need to score barrow load given goal difference. But I think it's head to head first and therefore if Dutch win next game they go into playoffs.

Confused?!?!

[Sir David Gray]

It's head to head before goal difference so no they don't. But they do need to win!


BBC saying it doesn't matter as Dutch need to score barrow load given goal difference. But I think it's head to head first and therefore if Dutch win next game they go into playoffs.

Confused?!?!

It's not head to head first. If two teams are tied on points, it goes to goal difference.

[poulton hibs]

It's not head to head first. If two teams are tied on points, it goes to goal difference.

From the FIFA website:
The eight best runners-up are determined by the following parameters, in this order:[26] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(UEFA)#cite_note-second-placed-33)


Highest number of points
Goal difference
Highest number of goals scored
Fair play points
Drawing of lot

[Sir David Gray]

From the FIFA website:
The eight best runners-up are determined by the following parameters, in this order:[26] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(UEFA)#cite_note-second-placed-33)


Highest number of points
Goal difference
Highest number of goals scored
Fair play points
Drawing of lot


Are you agreeing with me? That just repeats what I've just said.

[Col2]

Thanks so Holland are screwed then. Good.

And Portugal now wel placed to win group in front of Switzerland. Good.

And someone said Italy may be seeded lower than Denmark if Denmark win tomorrow. (Maybe). So they might be unseeded like we would be.

Not a bad few nights.

[poulton hibs]

Are you agreeing with me? That just repeats what I've just said.

Yes agree, just copying from FIFA. Not trying to steal your thunder :)

[lord bunberry]

What time does the Scotland game kick off tomorrow?

[poulton hibs]

What time does the Scotland game kick off tomorrow?

5 oclock

[lord bunberry]

5 oclock

Cheers

[Sir David Gray]

Yes agree, just copying from FIFA. Not trying to steal your thunder :)

Haha no problem, I was just confused as it looked like you were trying to correct me and I had to read it a few times to make sure that it was backing up what I had said! :greengrin

[Kaff]

It's not head to head first. If two teams are tied on points, it goes to goal difference.

Group position is decided on head to head, its the determination of who are the top 8 2nd placed teams which uses GD etc, obviously they can't use head to head since none have played each other

[Big_Franck]

Group position is decided on head to head, its the determination of who are the top 8 2nd placed teams which uses GD etc, obviously they can't use head to head since none have played each other

No its not. Group positions are decided on points and if there's a tie its then decided by goal difference.

If goal difference is tied then its decided by goals scored. If goals scored doesnt separate the sides THEN its down to the head to head record.

Everyone should just ignore the head to head records as it wont come down to that in any group.

[Sir David Gray]

Second place table as it stands after tonight's matches, with all teams having one game left;

Portugal - 18 points GD +18
Italy - 14 points GD +3
Sweden - 13 points GD +10
Denmark - 13 points GD +7
Northern Ireland - 13 points GD +5
Greece - 13 points GD +4
Wales - 11 points GD +2
Croatia - 11 points GD +2
Scotland - 11 points GD -1

It looks worse than it actually is from a Scotland perspective!

Because Greece play Gibraltar in their last game, they cannot improve on their current tally of 13 points because the results against the bottom side are wiped for the purposes of calculating the second placed teams so if we beat Slovenia we are guaranteed to finish above Greece.

[Sir David Gray]

Group position is decided on head to head, its the determination of who are the top 8 2nd placed teams which uses GD etc, obviously they can't use head to head since none have played each other

For about the fourth time on this thread alone, it's NOT decided by head to head before goal difference.

If two teams are level on points, it then goes to goal difference.

Please check the FIFA website if you don't believe me.

[poulton hibs]

Latest from FIFA after tonights games




Pos
Grp
Team

v
t
e



Pld
W
D
L
GF
GA
GD
Pts
Qualification


1
B (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%E2%80%93_UEFA_G roup_B)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Flag_of_Portugal.svg/23px-Flag_of_Portugal.svg.png Portugal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal_national_football_team) (X)
7
6
0
1
22
4
+18
18
Advance to second round (play-offs) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%E2%80%93_UEFA_S econd_Round)


2
G (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%E2%80%93_UEFA_G roup_G)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/03/Flag_of_Italy.svg/23px-Flag_of_Italy.svg.png Italy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy_national_football_team) (A)
7
4
2
1
11
8
+3
14


3
A (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%E2%80%93_UEFA_G roup_A)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4c/Flag_of_Sweden.svg/23px-Flag_of_Sweden.svg.png Sweden (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden_national_football_team)
7
4
1
2
17
7
+10
13


4
E (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%E2%80%93_UEFA_G roup_E)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Flag_of_Denmark.svg/20px-Flag_of_Denmark.svg.png Denmark (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark_national_football_team)
7
4
1
2
12
5
+7
13


5
C (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%E2%80%93_UEFA_G roup_C)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Flag_of_Northern_Ireland.svg/23px-Flag_of_Northern_Ireland.svg.png Northern Ireland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_national_football_team) (Y, Z)
7
4
1
2
10
5
+5
13


6
H (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%E2%80%93_UEFA_G roup_H)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Flag_of_Greece.svg/23px-Flag_of_Greece.svg.png Greece (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece_national_football_team) (Z)
8
3
4
1
9
5
+4
13


7
D (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%E2%80%93_UEFA_G roup_D)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Flag_of_Wales_2.svg/23px-Flag_of_Wales_2.svg.png Wales (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales_national_football_team)
7
2
5
0
7
5
+2
11


8
I (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%E2%80%93_UEFA_G roup_I)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Flag_of_Croatia.svg/23px-Flag_of_Croatia.svg.png Croatia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatia_national_football_team)
7
3
2
2
6
4
+2
11


9
F (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%E2%80%93_UEFA_G roup_F)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Flag_of_Scotland.svg/23px-Flag_of_Scotland.svg.png Scotland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland_national_football_team) (Z)
7
3
2
2
8
9
−1
11




Not sure about anyone else but Greece play Gibralter in the last game so are stuck on 13 so still guaranteed a play off if we we win tomorrow.

[Lancs Harp]

Another fylde Hibs fan?

[poulton hibs]

Another fylde Hibs fan?

Yes, long time lurker and reader but not a poster. ST in the East for a long time.

[poulton hibs]

Yes, long time lurker and reader but not a poster. ST in the East for a long time.

Lived down here since 1990

[Kaff]

For about the fourth time on this thread alone, it's NOT decided by head to head before goal difference.

If two teams are level on points, it then goes to goal difference.

Please check the FIFA website if you don't believe me.

Admonishment accepted, I see you're right!

[Newry Hibs]

The only way Slovenia can qualify is if they win and Slovakia dont. So I'm thinking if Slovakia go a couple of goals up, then maybe Slovenia lose heart and basically don't try very hard. Hopefully.

[bingo70]

The only way Slovenia can qualify is if they win and Slovakia dont. So I'm thinking if Slovakia go a couple of goals up, then maybe Slovenia lose heart and basically don't try very hard. Hopefully.

They'll know now they can't qualify anyway.

Sure i read, possibly on this thread, that even if they did finish 2nd now they'd be the worst runners up anyway.

[Billy Whizz]

They'll know now they can't qualify anyway.

Sure i read, possibly on this thread, that even if they did finish 2nd now they'd be the worst runners up anyway.

That’s interesting, although I presume they won’t know that until all the games are completed on Tuesday?

[bingo70]

That’s interesting, although I presume they won’t know that until all the games are completed on Tuesday?

Don't know, it was someone far more intelligent than me that worked it out.

It's irrelevant anyway as they'll know Slovakia will beat Malta at home

[Newry Hibs]

Bloody hell. Maths on a Sunday morning. Slovenia would be bottom anyway. So no doubt their hearts not in it and will play a much much weakened team. I mean really really weak.

[Hibbyradge]

If Ukraine beat Croatia, who have just sacked their manager, they'll have 14 qualifying points too. It's bloody complicated.

[GreenCastle]

Scotland have only won once in 14 away games against top 100 teams..

Not too hopefull - got draw or score draw written all over it.

[Sir David Gray]

They'll know now they can't qualify anyway.

Sure i read, possibly on this thread, that even if they did finish 2nd now they'd be the worst runners up anyway.

It is technically possible for Slovenia to qualify but highly improbable. They would need a set of results that would probably cause an investigation to take place;

Slovenia would need to beat Scotland
Slovakia would need to fail to beat Malta at home
Greece would have to fail to beat Gibraltar at home
Bosnia would need to beat Estonia away from home by a smaller margin than Slovenia's win against us.

Easy! :greengrin

[Onion]

Latest from FIFA after tonights games




Pos
Grp
Team

v
t
e



Pld
W
D
L
GF
GA
GD
Pts
Qualification


1
B (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%E2%80%93_UEFA_G roup_B)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Flag_of_Portugal.svg/23px-Flag_of_Portugal.svg.png Portugal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal_national_football_team) (X)
7
6
0
1
22
4
+18
18
Advance to second round (play-offs) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%E2%80%93_UEFA_S econd_Round)


2
G (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%E2%80%93_UEFA_G roup_G)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/03/Flag_of_Italy.svg/23px-Flag_of_Italy.svg.png Italy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy_national_football_team) (A)
7
4
2
1
11
8
+3
14


3
A (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%E2%80%93_UEFA_G roup_A)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4c/Flag_of_Sweden.svg/23px-Flag_of_Sweden.svg.png Sweden (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden_national_football_team)
7
4
1
2
17
7
+10
13


4
E (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%E2%80%93_UEFA_G roup_E)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Flag_of_Denmark.svg/20px-Flag_of_Denmark.svg.png Denmark (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark_national_football_team)
7
4
1
2
12
5
+7
13


5
C (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%E2%80%93_UEFA_G roup_C)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Flag_of_Northern_Ireland.svg/23px-Flag_of_Northern_Ireland.svg.png Northern Ireland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_national_football_team) (Y, Z)
7
4
1
2
10
5
+5
13


6
H (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%E2%80%93_UEFA_G roup_H)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Flag_of_Greece.svg/23px-Flag_of_Greece.svg.png Greece (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece_national_football_team) (Z)
8
3
4
1
9
5
+4
13


7
D (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%E2%80%93_UEFA_G roup_D)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Flag_of_Wales_2.svg/23px-Flag_of_Wales_2.svg.png Wales (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales_national_football_team)
7
2
5
0
7
5
+2
11


8
I (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%E2%80%93_UEFA_G roup_I)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Flag_of_Croatia.svg/23px-Flag_of_Croatia.svg.png Croatia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatia_national_football_team)
7
3
2
2
6
4
+2
11


9
F (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%E2%80%93_UEFA_G roup_F)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Flag_of_Scotland.svg/23px-Flag_of_Scotland.svg.png Scotland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland_national_football_team) (Z)
7
3
2
2
8
9
−1
11




Not sure about anyone else but Greece play Gibralter in the last game so are stuck on 13 so still guaranteed a play off if we we win tomorrow.

And if Scotland draw with Slovenia, and Slovakia draw with Malta ? Where would that leave us ?

[theonlywayisup]

And if Scotland draw with Slovenia, and Slovakia draw with Malta ? Where would that leave us ?

Bottom of the nine qualifiers and thus missing out.

Ukraine v Croatia - no matter the result one of those teams would be above us, if we draw.

Wales v Ireland - no matter the result one of those teams would be above us, if we draw.

Only a win will do, which will take us above Greece.

[Sir David Gray]

And if Scotland draw with Slovenia, and Slovakia draw with Malta ? Where would that leave us ?

Still second in the group but almost certainly out of the play offs.

[Sir David Gray]

Bottom of the nine qualifiers and thus missing out.

Ukraine v Croatia - no matter the result one of those teams would be above us, if we draw.

Wales v Ireland - no matter the result one of those teams would be above us, if we draw.

Only a win will do, which will take us above Greece.

Not quite but in reality a draw will put us out.

If we draw we'll need Greece to fail to beat Gibraltar and Bosnia to beat Estonia. We'll then go through.

[poulton hibs]

Not quite but in reality a draw will put us out.

If we draw we'll need Greece to fail to beat Gibraltar and Bosnia to beat Estonia. We'll then go through.


Isn't the Greece result irrelevant because Gibralter are at the bottom of the group? Greece are stuck on 13 so if we draw we will have 12 and below Greece, if we win we will have 14 so are through to the play off?

[HibbyKeith]

Not quite but in reality a draw will put us out.

If we draw we'll need Greece to fail to beat Gibraltar and Bosnia to beat Estonia. We'll then go through.

That's probably the best scenario. How many times have teams only had to draw to advance and end up making a right pig's ear of it.

Just need to go out and have a right good go.

[Sir David Gray]

Isn't the Greece result irrelevant because Gibralter are at the bottom of the group? Greece are stuck on 13 so if we draw we will have 12 and below Greece, if we win we will have 14 so are through to the play off?

If Bosnia and Greece go to 17 points then Bosnia will go 2nd in that group because of their superior goal difference and therefore their 6 points against Gibraltar will be deducted and they'll go down to 11 points. We'll have 12 points if we draw tonight so we'll qualify ahead of Bosnia.

It's all irrelevant though as Slovakia won't fail to beat Malta and Greece won't fail to beat Gibraltar.