Neil Oliver petition removed from 38 degrees

[snooky]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15573843.Video__Site_has_clearout_of_sacking_campa igns_after_Neil_Oliver_ban_row___but__remove_the_Q ueen__petition_remains/
You can have a petition to get rid of Her Majesty .... but not Neil Oliver (according to 38 degrees). :hmmm:

[Beefster]

I always find stuff like this a bit depressing. The political discourse in Scotland isn’t much better than that in America IMHO. Complete intolerance of opposing views, smears and inevitable hounding of individuals who express an opinion.

Why is having an opinion on another referendum a blocker to being a president of an organisation tasked to protecting Scotland’s heritage anyway? It’s almost like someone trawled through his background looking for something/anything that they could start a campaign around.

[danhibees1875]

I always find stuff like this a bit depressing. The political discourse in Scotland isn’t much better than that in America IMHO. Complete intolerance of opposing views, smears and inevitable hounding of individuals who express an opinion.

Why is having an opinion on another referendum a blocker to being a president of an organisation tasked to protecting Scotland’s heritage anyway? It’s almost like someone trawled through his background looking for something/anything that they could start a campaign around.

:agree:

Unless I've missed something. Holding a political view and so people with opposite views want you removed from a job completely unrelated to politics... ridiculous and nasty, and quite rightly removed.

There isn't even a comparison to the queen petition either - having a monarchy or not is a decision in itself and so there are merits to debate it. Not that some online petition on a website would hold much weight in the argument.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Seems quite a Stalinist approach to political discourse.

[snooky]

I always find stuff like this a bit depressing. The political discourse in Scotland isn’t much better than that in America IMHO. Complete intolerance of opposing views, smears and inevitable hounding of individuals who express an opinion.

Why is having an opinion on another referendum a blocker to being a president of an organisation tasked to protecting Scotland’s heritage anyway? It’s almost like someone trawled through his background looking for something/anything that they could start a campaign around.

If I can use the playground expression, "Well, he started it!" :cool2: :wink:

[Hibrandenburg]

I always find stuff like this a bit depressing. The political discourse in Scotland isn’t much better than that in America IMHO. Complete intolerance of opposing views, smears and inevitable hounding of individuals who express an opinion.

Why is having an opinion on another referendum a blocker to being a president of an organisation tasked to protecting Scotland’s heritage anyway? It’s almost like someone trawled through his background looking for something/anything that they could start a campaign around.

I think it's a bit more than opposing views. If he did claim that the highland clearances were voluntary emigration, then he's lost any credibility as a historian, even if he is an archaeologist.

[ronaldo7]

I think it's a bit more than opposing views. If he did claim that the highland clearances were voluntary emigration, then he's lost any credibility as a historian, even if he is an archaeologist.

His comments about a second Indyref being a "cancerous presence", might not have helped.

[Beefster]

I think it's a bit more than opposing views. If he did claim that the highland clearances were voluntary emigration, then he's lost any credibility as a historian, even if he is an archaeologist.

That’s not mentioned in the Herald link. He’s got stupid hair for a grown man imho and is a smug git but I don’t think it affects his work.

[Sergio sledge]

His comments about a second Indyref being a "cancerous presence", might not have helped.

What has that got to do with a potential role in the National Trust for Scotland?

[Beefster]

What has that got to do with a potential role in the National Trust for Scotland?

Presumably it's because it has Scotland in the organisation title and by, opposing independence, he's shown that he absolutely hates Scotland. Or something.

[Pretty Boy]

Presumably it's because it has Scotland in the organisation title and by, opposing independence, he's shown that he absolutely hates Scotland. Or something.

The original petition had a something along the lines of 'he doesn't have Scotland best interest at heart' in the narrative.

Firstly I'd suggest that's a claim that can be challenged. Believing Scotland is best served by remaining in the UK is a valid position to take in the eyes of anyone with a sense of how debate works, although I accept that the rabid hordes on either side don't always accept anything other than their own viewpoint. Secondly the position he has been appointed to is apolitical and his beliefs around independence have zero impact on his ability to perform that role properly. I'm not a fan of Neil Oliver's style and have said so on numerous occasions but he's undoubtedly passionate about Scottish history, Scotland's wild spaces, Scottish ethnology and conservation and the promotion of history as a whole. All attributes that make him very much suited to the role he has taken on.

I really wish the petition had been left though. Removing it has just given the 'it's a conspiracy' brigade something else to complain about.

[JeMeSouviens]

What has that got to do with a potential role in the National Trust for Scotland?

Well, arguably anyone that outspoken (on either side of the debate) is not going to be a very unifying figurehead. But that's up to the NTS. He seems to be a bit of a fanny and the hair is lamentable. It's amazing the things that will inspire some folk to fire off a petition though.

[marinello59]

Presumably it's because it has Scotland in the organisation title and by, opposing independence, he's shown that he absolutely hates Scotland. Or something.

Some civic nationalists seem to be just as intolerant of those with opposing views as those good old fashioned horrible Nationalists were.

[ronaldo7]

What has that got to do with a potential role in the National Trust for Scotland?

Absolutely nuttin.

I'd have thought the NTS would have looked for a unifying character instead of one with clear political views.

I'm sure he'll do well in post though.😅

[lord bunberry]

With a bit of luck his role with the national trust will limit his tv appearances.

[Beefster]

With a bit of luck his role with the national trust will limit his tv appearances.

If the National Trust can insist that he cuts his hair, I’ll happily donate £10 a month to them.

[lord bunberry]

If the National Trust can insist that he cuts his hair, I’ll happily donate £10 a month to them.
It’s probably a wig.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Never in my life have i heard anyone, ever, express any opinion on the board of the NTS, either positive or negative.

Until some sad cybernat choob who cannot countenance someone with a different opinion, and now everyone has a view on who, or what makes someone qualified to be on the board.

Geez peace.

[Pretty Boy]

I wonder if some would consider a unifying figure to be of such importance had someone like Alex Salmond been appointed to the post:rolleyes:

[Mr White]

I wonder if some would consider a unifying figure to be of such importance had someone like Alex Salmond been appointed to the post:rolleyes:

**** that he's a yam. Robbie the Pict all the way :agree:

[McD]

Absolutely nuttin.

I'd have thought the NTS would have looked for a unifying character instead of one with clear political views.

I'm sure he'll do well in post though.😅


Why? Does his political view stop him for carrying out that role? And It’s a fair bet that most people in Scotland will have an opinion one way or the other in the independence debate, does that also stop any of them performing this role?

[Pretty Boy]

**** that he's a yam. Robbie the Pict all the way :agree:

Not sure you can put a Pict in charge. Bit divisive to the Gaels and Norse peoples of Scotland.

Only one man for it, send for McGlashan.

'Murdo, Murdo.....Murdo, Murdo'

[marinello59]

Absolutely nuttin.

I'd have thought the NTS would have looked for a unifying character instead of one with clear political views.

I'm sure he'll do well in post though.😅

If only someone could bind the notoriously divided political factions of the NTS together. I'm not so sure it can be done.

[snooky]

If the National Trust can insist that he cuts his hair, I’ll happily donate £10 a month to them.

If the National Trust can insist that he cuts his job, I'll happily donate £10 a month to them.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Why? Does his political view stop him for carrying out that role? And It’s a fair bet that most people in Scotland will have an opinion one way or the other in the independence debate, does that also stop any of them performing this role?

Dont be daft.

Everyone knows that Scotland can never move on or fulfill our potential until the National Trust unifies us as a nation.

I for one wont sleep until such division is removed from the key role at this institution that goes to the very heart of scottish society.

Its a national scandal.

[ronaldo7]

Why? Does his political view stop him for carrying out that role? And It’s a fair bet that most people in Scotland will have an opinion one way or the other in the independence debate, does that also stop any of them performing this role?

I don't know. He's not carried out the role yet. Fwiw, I couldn't care less if they gave the job to Theresa May, they've clearly given some thought into his appointment and are happy with their man.

Only they will know how it pans out, but I'm sure he'll enjoy himself in the role.

He might even get another bbc programme out of it. 😉

[McD]

Dont be daft.

Everyone knows that Scotland can never move on or fulfill our potential until the National Trust unifies us as a nation.

I for one wont sleep until such division is removed from the key role at this institution that goes to the very heart of scottish society.

Its a national scandal.

:tee hee:



I don't know. He's not carried out the role yet. Fwiw, I couldn't care less if they gave the job to Theresa May, they've clearly given some thought into his appointment and are happy with their man.

Only they will know how it pans out, but I'm sure he'll enjoy himself in the role.

He might even get another bbc programme out of it. 😉

so why make the comment you did? If I’ve misunderstood a sarcastic comment, apologies :greengrin

[ronaldo7]

His comments about a second Indyref being a "cancerous presence", might not have helped.


:tee hee:




so why make the comment you did? If I’ve misunderstood a sarcastic comment, apologies :greengrin

My comment, above, was in reference to him making the claim that a second indyref was a "cancerous presence". I would have thought any "Charity", would have thought long and hard before appointing "anyone" with those views. They always have knock on effects.

Each to their own though, and they've got their man. :aok:

It's been nice, watching so many admins have their 5 minutes of playtime though.:greengrin :offski:

[McD]

My comment, above, was in reference to him making the claim that a second indyref was a "cancerous presence". I would have thought any "Charity", would have thought long and hard before appointing "anyone" with those views. They always have knock on effects.

Each to their own though, and they've got their man. :aok:

It's been nice, watching so many admins have their 5 minutes of playtime though.:greengrin :offski:


Admins? :confused:


I agree that that comment in a debate that is so emotive doesn’t bring any positive pr (regardless of which side of this anyone comes down on, its quite a horrible thing to say).

[ancient hibee]

It's an interesting concept(not expressed on here I hasten to add)that someone who represents majority opinion on independence is not suitable to hold a prominent position on a Scottish charity.I don't remember dyed in the wool unionists kicking up a fuss when Alan Cumming was appointed Ambassador to the NTS and I'm sure he'll do a good job in the States promoting NTS.

[Mibbes Aye]

My comment, above, was in reference to him making the claim that a second indyref was a "cancerous presence". I would have thought any "Charity", would have thought long and hard before appointing "anyone" with those views. They always have knock on effects.

Each to their own though, and they've got their man. :aok:

It's been nice, watching so many admins have their 5 minutes of playtime though.:greengrin :offski:

Open-minded and tolerant of others' views. You couldn't epitomise nationalism more succinctly :wink:

Having a go at admins is just wrong - they're expressing their views as individual posters and my reckoning is that their posts are consistent with what they regularly post as individual posters. Making it an 'admin' thing makes you sound a bit bitter and defensive.

[ronaldo7]

Open-minded and tolerant of others' views. You couldn't epitomise nationalism more succinctly :wink:

Having a go at admins is just wrong - they're expressing their views as individual posters and my reckoning is that their posts are consistent with what they regularly post as individual posters. Making it an 'admin' thing makes you sound a bit bitter and defensive.

Correct.

I didn't think that when you said, you'd be waiting round the corner for me, you'd really post about me mentioning the Admins having some fun.:rolleyes:

I've not had any go "as you say" at the admins.

You need to take your nat goggles off bud.

[Mr White]

Correct.

I didn't think that when you said, you'd be waiting round the corner for me, you'd really post about me mentioning the Admins having some fun.:rolleyes:

I've not had any go "as you say" at the admins.

You need to take your nat goggles of bud.


Is that an American term for beer goggles?

:greengrin

[ronaldo7]

Is that an American term for beer goggles?

:greengrin

:aok::greengrin:nerd:

[Mibbes Aye]

Correct.

I didn't think that when you said, you'd be waiting round the corner for me, you'd really post about me mentioning the Admins having some fun.:rolleyes:

I've not had any go "as you say" at the admins.

You need to take your nat goggles off bud.

The funny thing is I don’t wear goggles.

It’s just amusing how sensitive and defensive our nationalist brethren can appear :greengrin

[ronaldo7]

The funny thing is I don’t wear goggles.

It’s just amusing how sensitive and defensive our nationalist brethren can appear :greengrin

Only when you go on the attack, when, there is nothing to attack.

Amusing, right enough.

I wonder which corner it will be next. :wink:

[Mibbes Aye]

Only when you go on the attack, when, there is nothing to attack.

Amusing, right enough.

I wonder which corner it will be next. :wink:

Are you really standing by your point that Neil Oliver shouldn’t have his NTS post because he disagrees with another referendum? Really?

Mind you, there’s a long history of tension between nationalism and free speech isn’t there?

Anyways, Christine Grahame and Jim Sillars seem to be willing to express their views. Are they still acceptable as Nats or have they burnt their bridges by criticising the failures of Nicola?

[ronaldo7]

Are you really standing by your point that Neil Oliver shouldn’t have his NTS post because he disagrees with another referendum? Really?

Mind you, there’s a long history of tension between nationalism and free speech isn’t there?

Anyways, Christine Grahame and Jim Sillars seem to be willing to express their views. Are they still acceptable as Nats or have they burnt their bridges by criticising the failures of Nicola?

:tee hee:

Go out, get a ride, and clear yer heid.:aok:

[Mibbes Aye]

:tee hee:

Go out, get a ride, and clear yer heid.:aok:

Well that's a clearly-constructed and thought-out answer.......

You don't really have anything in your locker other than linking to WoS or posts like the above.

It's a shame. There's probably a good debate to be had. Where is the articulate and rational argument for nationalism?

[weecounty hibby]

My issue with Oliver is twofold. His description of the highland clearances for an historian was at best rewriting history to suit his own unique position/opinion on them. And also I had the misfortune to have been at a table next to his in a restaurant in Stirling once. Self absorbed fud. Wanted to be centre of attention even in a private setting, constantly messing about with his hair and the old look at me attitude.
I'm a member of the NTS and couldn't care less who the chair is or their political views.
As a dedicated Nationalist I think he is a twat!
As a restaurant customer I think he is a twat!
I can separate all these things but on balance I think he is a twat. :-)

[ronaldo7]

Well that's a clearly-constructed and thought-out answer.......

You don't really have anything in your locker other than linking to WoS or posts like the above.

It's a shame. There's probably a good debate to be had. Where is the articulate and rational argument for nationalism?

Sorry, I was looking around the next corner, for you, waiting for me. :faf:

There probably is a good debate to be had, but you're really clutching at straws, if you think this is it.:wink:

Clear yer heid, and move on pal.:wink:

[Mibbes Aye]

Sorry, I was looking around the next corner, for you, waiting for me. :faf:

There probably is a good debate to be had, but you're really clutching at straws, if you think this is it.:wink:

Clear yer heid, and move on pal.:wink:

You've lost me with the 'round the corner' lines, just like when you were posting the 'Simon' lines. Neither of them make any sense.

Just to be clear, you don't seem to post anything other than WoS links and petty jibes. The jibes might be amusing for you, but like I've posted in my first sentence they don't actually make sense or relate to anything I have posted?

I would love to have a rational, intelligent debate about why some people want Scotland to be an independent country and why some people don't.

I would love to have my ideas and opinions challenged, just in the same way I would like to challenge others.

You don't offer any of that. All you've got is "Clear yer heid, and move on pal" :bitchy:

Can you work out why Scotland voted 'No' yet?

[ronaldo7]

It's an interesting concept(not expressed on here I hasten to add)that someone who represents majority opinion on independence is not suitable to hold a prominent position on a Scottish charity.I don't remember dyed in the wool unionists kicking up a fuss when Alan Cumming was appointed Ambassador to the NTS and I'm sure he'll do a good job in the States promoting NTS.

I can't remember, Alan Cumming, ever mentioning a "cancerous presence" in any UK election/referendum.:dunno:

[ronaldo7]

You've lost me with the 'round the corner' lines, just like when you were posting the 'Simon' lines. Neither of them make any sense.

Just to be clear, you don't seem to post anything other than WoS links and petty jibes. The jibes might be amusing for you, but like I've posted in my first sentence they don't actually make sense or relate to anything I have posted?

I would love to have a rational, intelligent debate about why some people want Scotland to be an independent country and why some people don't.

I would love to have my ideas and opinions challenged, just in the same way I would like to challenge others.

You don't offer any of that. All you've got is "Clear yer heid, and move on pal" :bitchy:

Can you work out why Scotland voted 'No' yet?

They were "your words", to me.

You might have forgotten though. :wink:

Let's move on now, and get this back on track, I'm sure most folk will want to see how Neil gets on.:wink:

[JeMeSouviens]

Open-minded and tolerant of others' views. You couldn't epitomise nationalism more succinctly :wink:

Having a go at admins is just wrong - they're expressing their views as individual posters and my reckoning is that their posts are consistent with what they regularly post as individual posters. Making it an 'admin' thing makes you sound a bit bitter and defensive.

Stop me if I’m getting confused but aren’t you the one who gies on about playing balls not men?

[Mibbes Aye]

Stop me if I’m getting confused but aren’t you the one who gies on about playing balls not men?

What's your point?

[JeMeSouviens]

You've lost me with the 'round the corner' lines, just like when you were posting the 'Simon' lines. Neither of them make any sense.

Just to be clear, you don't seem to post anything other than WoS links and petty jibes. The jibes might be amusing for you, but like I've posted in my first sentence they don't actually make sense or relate to anything I have posted?

I would love to have a rational, intelligent debate about why some people want Scotland to be an independent country and why some people don't.

I would love to have my ideas and opinions challenged, just in the same way I would like to challenge others.

You don't offer any of that. All you've got is "Clear yer heid, and move on pal" :bitchy:

Can you work out why Scotland voted 'No' yet?

Different strokes for different folks, but my top 3 would be:

Attachment to Britain.
Concern about personal financial circumstances.
Concern about Scotland’s financial circumstances.

We’ll never have an answer to the first but as and when 2 and 3 are allayed sufficiently, we’ll win.

Happy to help.

[JeMeSouviens]

What's your point?

You pitched into a thread about Oliver with a straightforward ad hom on r7.

[Mibbes Aye]

Correct.

I didn't think that when you said, you'd be waiting round the corner for me, you'd really post about me mentioning the Admins having some fun.:rolleyes:

I've not had any go "as you say" at the admins.

You need to take your nat goggles off bud.


They were "your words", to me.

You might have forgotten though. :wink:

Let's move on now, and get this back on track, I'm sure most folk will want to see how Neil gets on.:wink:

Really?

Post the quote. I don't think I said that and it doesn't sound like me.

If I did say it, I will instantly apologise if you felt threatened.

How are you responding to Christine Grahame and Jim Sillars? :greengrin

[ronaldo7]

Really?

Post the quote. I don't think I said that and it doesn't sound like me.

If I did say it, I will instantly apologise if you felt threatened.

How are you responding to Christine Grahame and Jim Sillars? :greengrin

You did, but as others on here will testify, threats on tinternet can go as far as them having to go offline for a while.

I've never at any time felt threatened by you, so, no need to apologise. I know who you are.:greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

You pitched into a thread about Oliver with a straightforward ad hom on r7.

Not disagreeing with you JMS, you make a fair point.

It was maybe a bit ad hom but when it's in response to a post like the one that's made, and given the poster history, then it's hard to constructively challenge without it appearing ad hominem :dunno:

[Mibbes Aye]

You did, but as others on here will testify, threats on tinternet can go as far as them having to go offline for a while.

I've never at any time felt threatened by you, so, no need to apologise. I know who you are.:greengrin

So you can't actually quote me saying what you claimed I said?

Ok :faf:

I'm glad you know who I am. I actually think I would enjoy your company, regardless of our political affiliations.

[ronaldo7]

So you can't actually quote me saying what you claimed I said?

Ok :faf:

I'm glad you know who I am. I actually think I would enjoy your company, regardless of our political affiliations.

I'm not going to troll through your posts to find it. I know what was said, even if you don't.

As I've said before, time to get this back on track, or do you want to go on a completely different tangent on another subject. It doesn't take you long to switch, does it.

[Mibbes Aye]

I'm not going to troll through your posts to find it. I know what was said, even if you don't.

As I've said before, time to get this back on track, or do you want to go on a completely different tangent on another subject. It doesn't take you long to switch, does it.

So, I didn't, and you're just making it up :greengrin

[ronaldo7]

https://t.co/ANiT4GroQP

:faf:

Scotlands third sector.

[ronaldo7]

So, I didn't, and you're just making it up :greengrin

Jackie Baillie.

[Mibbes Aye]

I'm not going to troll through your posts to find it. I know what was said, even if you don't.

As I've said before, time to get this back on track, or do you want to go on a completely different tangent on another subject. It doesn't take you long to switch, does it.

So, I didn't. And you're just making it up.

Self-respect, man. Get some.

[ronaldo7]

So, I didn't. And you're just making it up.

Self-respect, man. Get some.

Did you have to post this twice to make it feel right?:na na:

I'm out, your boring me. Enjoy yer drink.

[Pete]

So you can't actually quote me saying what you claimed I said?

Ok :faf:

I'm glad you know who I am. I actually think I would enjoy your company, regardless of our political affiliations.

:hmmm:



:greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

Did you have to post this twice to make it feel right?:na na:

I'm out, your boring me. Enjoy yer drink.

:confused:

Anytime you want an actual debate about the rights and wrongs of nationalism, feel free. I like posting my views and like hearing other people's views, and then challenging them and being challenged. What I don't like is sloganising and hiding behind other people's blogs.

I'm happy to talk about it and potentially be convinced to change my mind, should the argument be convincing.

Over to you, but I expect more than links to WoS.......

[Mibbes Aye]

:hmmm:



:greengrin

I think we would get on fine over a pint or two. If nothing else, we're both Hibbies :greengrin

[--------]

My issue with Oliver is twofold. His description of the highland clearances for an historian was at best rewriting history to suit his own unique position/opinion on them. And also I had the misfortune to have been at a table next to his in a restaurant in Stirling once. Self absorbed fud. Wanted to be centre of attention even in a private setting, constantly messing about with his hair and the old look at me attitude.
I'm a member of the NTS and couldn't care less who the chair is or their political views.
As a dedicated Nationalist I think he is a twat!
As a restaurant customer I think he is a twat!,
I can separate all these things but on balance I think he is a twat. :-)


Yes. His treatment of the Clearances was partial, simplistic, and I think insulting, delivered in the same smug, opinionated way he displays in so much (all?) of his TV work.

I commiserate with you on your experience in Stirling, and his behaviour certainly doesn't surprise me.

NTS is a Scottish public and national body; as such it should be represented by a historian of substance and repute, not a media luvvy as full of himself as Oliver is.

"Self absorbed fud" - nice one. You describe him to a T. :devil:

With apologies, but his expression says it all. Smug.


https://www.grough.co.uk/lib/img/editorial/NTS-Neil-Oliver-1200-1024x682.jpg

[JeMeSouviens]

Yes. His treatment of the Clearances was partial, simplistic, and I think insulting, delivered in the same smug, opinionated way he displays in so much (all?) of his TV work.

I commiserate with you on your experience in Stirling, and his behaviour certainly doesn't surprise me.

NTS is a Scottish public and national body; as such it should be represented by a historian of substance and repute, not a media luvvy as full of himself as Oliver is.

"Self absorbed fud" - nice one. You describe him to a T. :devil:

With apologies, but his expression says it all. Smug.


https://www.grough.co.uk/lib/img/editorial/NTS-Neil-Oliver-1200-1024x682.jpg

And more importantly, is the cravat thing worse than the hair? :confused:

[--------]

And more importantly, is the cravat thing worse than the hair? :confused:


It all bad, man, all bad. It's the breathy, intense delivery as well, as if every word that comes out of his mouth's vital to the hearer's understanding of the topic, a topic only now being adequately elucidated (woo!) by Neil Oliver.

The Truth has spoken.

Plonker!