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hibbysam
28-09-2017, 08:39 PM
I'd imagine there is a fair chance Danny may not be involved this weekend with him standing as a witness this week in the murder trial of one of his best pals?

Lennon mentioned a few weeks back that the club were helping him in every way but I'd imagine he's missed most of training this week..

Mr White
28-09-2017, 08:44 PM
I didn't realise that had started. That must be awful for him on top of the horror of losing his friend. It's good to hear the club have a plan in place to help him. If that includes giving him time off and he misses a few games then so be it if it helps him cope and get through such a brutal experience.

Billy Whizz
28-09-2017, 08:46 PM
I'd imagine there is a fair chance Danny may not be involved this weekend with him standing as a witness this week in the murder trial of one of his best pals?

Lennon mentioned a few weeks back that the club were helping him in every way but I'd imagine he's missed most of training this week..

Mentioned this on hibs tv last week
How long is the trial scheduled for?

Nakedmanoncrack
28-09-2017, 08:56 PM
Mentioned this on hibs tv last week
How long is the trial scheduled for?

Think I read that it was expected to last a week.

S4uzee
28-09-2017, 09:31 PM
I don't think you'd ever be able to get over witnessing something so brutal like that.

Needs all the support from the Hibs fans

SteveHFC
28-09-2017, 09:33 PM
Still ongoing
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/accused-kicked-player-in-head-like-a-football-1-4573059

lugz
28-09-2017, 09:54 PM
Still ongoing
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/accused-kicked-player-in-head-like-a-football-1-4573059

That's some tough reading right there. I can't even imagine what Danny is going through having to revisit such a horrible event. Hopefully justice is served and he can concentrate getting back to football. I'm sure he'll be given all the time he needs.

Ilovehibs
28-09-2017, 09:57 PM
That's some tough reading right there. I can't even imagine what Danny is going through having to revisit such a horrible event. Hopefully justice is served and he can concentrate getting back to football. I'm sure he'll be given all the time he needs.

100%

NORTHERNHIBBY
28-09-2017, 11:00 PM
While it is ongoing his thoughts won't be on football.

CraigHibee
29-09-2017, 02:16 AM
it's good the club are providing support for danny, can imagine it must have been horrific witnessing that.

Smartie
29-09-2017, 07:05 AM
While it is ongoing his thoughts won't be on football.

Whenever I've had bad stuff going on in my personal life, playing football has always been the one thing I could so that I could guarantee would take my mind off my problems.

If there's any risk Danny's mind isn't where it needs to be then Lennon will notice and respond accordingly.

I wouldn't write his chances of playing off though. It might be exactly what he needs.

neil7908
29-09-2017, 07:56 AM
Jesus, that must be terrible for Danny. I hadn't realised he knew Shaun so well or that he was there that night.

It may be as another poster said that playing football helps Danny but I'm sure the club will be looking out for him.

Jones28
29-09-2017, 08:01 AM
Christ that's some horrible reading, can't imagine what Danny must be thinking.

hibbysam
29-09-2017, 09:57 AM
Jesus, that must be terrible for Danny. I hadn't realised he knew Shaun so well or that he was there that night.

It may be as another poster said that playing football helps Danny but I'm sure the club will be looking out for him.

Yeah they were best pals. Just glad Hibs are providing all the necessary support to him and his family at what must be a traumatic time going back over that horrible night.

hibees 7062
29-09-2017, 11:07 AM
Still ongoing
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/accused-kicked-player-in-head-like-a-football-1-4573059

Another week they reckon

oconnors_strip
29-09-2017, 05:12 PM
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/teen-cleared-of-pub-fight-killing-1-4574065

Danny was giving evidence again today, Terrible news that one of them has been cleared. Will be down to Lennon and Danny to see if he is ok to play tomorrow.

Billychaotic182
29-09-2017, 07:45 PM
Hope that 17 year old gets it and rots! Little *******!

SirDavidsNapper
29-09-2017, 07:50 PM
I think Danny will shine for us once this awfull situation for him is put to bed. Glad NL is supporting him through it. Really think us fans need to get beind Danny and show him some encouragement while on the park.

green day
29-09-2017, 07:56 PM
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/teen-cleared-of-pub-fight-killing-1-4574065

Danny was giving evidence again today, Terrible news that one of them has been cleared. Will be down to Lennon and Danny to see if he is ok to play tomorrow.

Why is it terrible news that someone was acquitted? If they can't prove he is guilty then he is innocent - thats how the law works.

heretoday
29-09-2017, 07:58 PM
Why is it terrible news that someone was acquitted? If they can't prove he is guilty then he is innocent - thats how the law works.

Correct. People shouldn't be idly commenting on this case anyway. Stick to the footer.

kaimendhibs
29-09-2017, 08:05 PM
Whats footer?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

CentreLine
29-09-2017, 08:29 PM
Whats footer?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Another one for the slightly older contributors I guess. Certainly referred to the game as footie, footer and fitba’ in my time 👴🏻

silverhibee
29-09-2017, 09:23 PM
Why is it terrible news that someone was acquitted? If they can't prove he is guilty then he is innocent - thats how the law works.


Is it possible he could have been offered a deal to give evidence against his mates.

jacomo
29-09-2017, 10:59 PM
Correct. People shouldn't be idly commenting on this case anyway. Stick to the footer.


:agree:

green day
29-09-2017, 10:59 PM
Is it possible he could have been offered a deal to give evidence against his mates.

That would have happened pre trial I would have thought. They can't simply sort him a deal and add him to the witnesses, defence wouldn't have time to prepare.
Sounds like they simply don't have a strong enough case against this one guy.

.Sean.
30-09-2017, 03:41 AM
Is it possible he could have been offered a deal to give evidence against his mates.
Which would make him a grass aswell as a murderer no matter what he pleads in court. Hope he rots

HoboHarry
30-09-2017, 04:13 AM
So if I witnessed a crime that ended in a death would I be a grass as well?

HoboHarry
30-09-2017, 05:22 AM
That would have happened pre trial I would have thought. They can't simply sort him a deal and add him to the witnesses, defence wouldn't have time to prepare.
Sounds like they simply don't have a strong enough case against this one guy.

Not sure you are correct there mate. Read up on the Arlene Fraser case for a witness turning Queens evidence mid-trial.

Scouse Hibee
30-09-2017, 06:54 AM
Is it possible he could have been offered a deal to give evidence against his mates.

Seeing as this attack was carried out in full view of numerous witnesses I doubt it.

CropleyWasGod
30-09-2017, 07:04 AM
Which would make him a grass aswell as a murderer no matter what he pleads in court. Hope he rotsEven if he's innocent?

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

green day
30-09-2017, 07:32 AM
Not sure you are correct there mate. Read up on the Arlene Fraser case for a witness turning Queens evidence mid-trial.

You are right. Don't ask me for legal advice ! 😁

HFCdeb
30-09-2017, 08:46 AM
Poor Danny. Hope he finds some peace soon. I'm sure the Hibs support will get behind him when needed.

Firestarter
30-09-2017, 09:02 AM
Wouldn't want to be in his place just now. No wonder his form dropped after NewYear.

Dashing Bob S
30-09-2017, 12:37 PM
That would have happened pre trial I would have thought. They can't simply sort him a deal and add him to the witnesses, defence wouldn't have time to prepare.
Sounds like they simply don't have a strong enough case against this one guy.

It's unlikeky that all three youths killed Shaun. By eliminating one who may have taken part in the general rammy in the street but was unlikely to have struck the killer blow, they de facto close in on the more likely culprits.

Taking part in a street brawl is stupid and dangerous but it's very common to a lot of young men. It's also far from murder.

Andy74
30-09-2017, 12:42 PM
It's unlikeky that all three youths killed Shaun. By eliminating one who may have taken part in the general rammy in the street but was unlikely to have struck the killer blow, they de facto close in on the more likely culprits.

Taking part in a street brawl is stupid and dangerous but it's very common to a lot of young men. It's also far from murder.

Yep. Surprised this ended up with murder charges. Reads very much like a fight that involved a tragic consequence but not murder.

A lawyer doing his job of course but Danny being accused of discrepancies in his evidence and suffering from selective amnesia!

gogsy23
30-09-2017, 12:48 PM
Its a horrible thing to have happened but to be a witness in court is a hard thing mentally to deal and overcome. Stay strong Danny for the family and yours.

Scouse Hibee
30-09-2017, 12:55 PM
Its a horrible thing to have happened but to be a witness in court is a hard thing mentally to deal and overcome. Stay strong Danny for the family and yours.

Yes being cross examined and put through the mill by the defence in court is not a nice place to be especially as they are experts at analysing your statements and building doubt as to your credibility. Extra tough when you are recalling events that lead to the death of your close friend and bringing back the memories of what you have witnessed but would rather forget. A difficult time for Danny without doubt.

Mr White
30-09-2017, 01:02 PM
On the bench today. All the best Danny.

Dashing Bob S
30-09-2017, 01:05 PM
Yep. Surprised this ended up with murder charges. Reads very much like a fight that involved a tragic consequence but not murder.

A lawyer doing his job of course but Danny being accused of discrepancies in his evidence and suffering from selective amnesia!

Looks like they have to determine whether it was that or whether, within that, one or two evil little barstewards took it to another level.

As most people know, the difference between a drunken street brawl and then somebody vicously booting or stomping on a decked party is massive.

hibsmum
30-09-2017, 02:05 PM
Danny and the rest of his family had to give evidence this week and hopefully it gets justice for Shaun

cabbageandribs1875
12-10-2017, 05:56 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-41602271

A teenager has been convicted of culpable homicide following the death of a man in Edinburgh on New Year's Day.Shaun Woodburn, 30, died after he was attacked outside Gladstone's pub in Leith earlier this year.

The 17-year-old and a friend had earlier carried out assaults on other members of the public in Edinburgh.


toss the key away, pieces of ***** that they are

macca70
12-10-2017, 06:01 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-41602271

A teenager has been convicted of culpable homicide following the death of a man in Edinburgh on New Year's Day.Shaun Woodburn, 30, died after he was attacked outside Gladstone's pub in Leith earlier this year.

The 17-year-old and a friend had earlier carried out assaults on other members of the public in Edinburgh.


toss the key away, pieces of ***** that they are

It’s an absolute disgrace that booting someone on the head whilst they lay unconscious on the ground is not deemed murder!! Absolute ****!!

Scouse Hibee
12-10-2017, 06:02 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-41602271

A teenager has been convicted of culpable homicide following the death of a man in Edinburgh on New Year's Day.Shaun Woodburn, 30, died after he was attacked outside Gladstone's pub in Leith earlier this year.

The 17-year-old and a friend had earlier carried out assaults on other members of the public in Edinburgh.


toss the key away, pieces of ***** that they are

Agreed just a pity after such a campaign of violence they weren't apprehended earlier before they reached Leith.

1van Sprou7e
12-10-2017, 06:16 PM
Hopefully Danny can begin to move on now, poor guy

Firestarter
12-10-2017, 06:51 PM
Good news, was starting to get worried the **** would get off with it. Hopefully some peace can be had for everyone involved. Hope the **** rot.

Fuzzywuzzy
12-10-2017, 06:52 PM
The courts and law in this country are beyond a joke.

houstonhibbee
12-10-2017, 06:53 PM
It’s an absolute disgrace that booting someone on the head whilst they lay unconscious on the ground is not deemed murder!! Absolute ****!!

Especially when it's pre meditate ,deliberate, unprovoked and not an isolated serious incident
I'm not sure what could be more murderous than this. If he's not locked away for the rest of his life he will just kill some another innocent person or people

HIBERNIAN-0762
12-10-2017, 07:06 PM
Agreed just a pity after such a campaign of violence they weren't apprehended earlier before they reached Leith.

Cops too busy doing selfies with tourists uptown no doubt.

HoboHarry
12-10-2017, 07:12 PM
Especially when it's pre meditate ,deliberate, unprovoked and not an isolated serious incident
I'm not sure what could be more murderous than this. If he's not locked away for the rest of his life he will just kill some another innocent person or people
It's partly one of the consequences of using juries - if the prosecution were worried at all about the possibility of a not guilty verdict (especially if there was no CCTV evidence) then they may have preferred to accept the lesser verdict as being a better option that the jury finding him not guilty.....

Casey1875
12-10-2017, 07:33 PM
It's partly one of the consequences of using juries - if the prosecution were worried at all about the possibility of a not guilty verdict (especially if there was no CCTV evidence) then they may have preferred to accept the lesser verdict as being a better option that the jury finding him not guilty.....

Having recently served on a jury in a murder trial, I hope I'm never up in front of one. One women actually said as soon as we went in for deliberation "can we just vote now I'm not wanting to come back tomorrow " half of the time she was falling asleep and the court had to be stopped a few times because of her. Others think they are on csi and make stuff up. There really should be a minimum IQ requirement.

Ilovehibs
12-10-2017, 08:14 PM
It’s an absolute disgrace that booting someone on the head whilst they lay unconscious on the ground is not deemed murder!! Absolute ****!!

Totally agree. Disgrace.

Can only hope he still gets a substantial sentence.

Andy74
12-10-2017, 08:15 PM
Especially when it's pre meditate ,deliberate, unprovoked and not an isolated serious incident
I'm not sure what could be more murderous than this. If he's not locked away for the rest of his life he will just kill some another innocent person or people

Nah, there is a difference between planning on and intending to kill someone and it happening as a consequence of a fight, albeit one that the youngsters seemed intent on causing wherever they went that night.

it seems the lads in the pub came out with pool cues and things so they played their part in it getting to the stage it did. Tragic all round but I think the verdict is the right one in the circumstances.

houstonhibbee
12-10-2017, 08:19 PM
Nah, there is a difference between planning on and intending to kill someone and it happening as a consequence of a fight, albeit one that the youngsters seemed intent on causing wherever they went that night.

it seems the lads in the pub came out with pool cues and things so they played their part in it getting to the stage it did. Tragic all round but I think the verdict is the right one in the circumstances.

Seems crystal clear to me he was out to kill someone - anyone. For whatever reason. He's a danger to society

Hillsidehibby
12-10-2017, 08:22 PM
Culpabile Homicide. Good old Scotland. The only country in the world that lets murderers off with life if they say they didnae mean it.

Pretty Boy
12-10-2017, 08:26 PM
Seems crystal clear to me he was out to kill someone - anyone. For whatever reason. He's a danger to society

It's hard to prove that legally though.

For a murder conviction there has to be evidence and proof beyond reasonable doubt that the lad in questions intention that night was to kill someone. It may be that the emotive nature of the case could see a jury convinced but, much as I don't like it, it leaves the conviction wide open to appeal. Culpable homicide (I assume it's been deemed voluntary under Scots Law) goes some way to ensuring a guilty verdict and keeps a hefty sentence on the table up to and including life imprisonment.

leither17
12-10-2017, 08:28 PM
He will get 8 years maximum which gets cut to 4 and then also eligible to home visits after 2

Andy74
12-10-2017, 08:28 PM
Culpabile Homicide. Good old Scotland. The only country in the world that lets murderers off with life if they say they didnae mean it.

Not really. Most countries have equivalents. Proper murder needs to be premeditated. Not just intention to go out and cause some bother and injury, but intention to murder someone.

This verdict agrees that by his actions he caused someone to be killed. That sounds to me what I was expecting from what I had read.

Scouse Hibee
12-10-2017, 08:33 PM
Seems crystal clear to me he was out to kill someone - anyone. For whatever reason. He's a danger to society

To be honest I don't think erse holes like him contemplate the consequences of their actions. No doubt he was out to cause trouble and bully/assault people but saying he went out with the intention of killing someone is hard to prove.

Pretty Boy
12-10-2017, 08:33 PM
He will get 8 years maximum which gets cut to 4 and then also eligible to home visits after 2

Can't see it.

Given the other convictions along with this one he's looking at 16 years plus imo.

Swedish hibee
12-10-2017, 09:23 PM
I've been following this case online. So very sad. Whilst glad to know he got convicted, how did his friends get off despite them involved with 5 other punch ups that same night. Horrific individuals.

eastcoasthibby
12-10-2017, 09:49 PM
Can't see it.

Given the other convictions along with this one he's looking at 16 years plus imo.

Very little chance of him getting that long, soft touch court system ....

silverhibee
12-10-2017, 09:50 PM
I've been following this case online. So very sad. Whilst glad to know he got convicted, how did his friends get off despite them involved with 5 other punch ups that same night. Horrific individuals.

One had all the charges against him dropped during the trial, the other was seemingly not involved in the assault against the victim but involved in other fights with other people from the pub, the young lad has been found guilty of culpable homicide, he was found guilty of punching the victim which caused him to strike his head on the pavement.

son of haggart
12-10-2017, 09:57 PM
Having been beaten up by a gang in Portobello high street when I was 16/17 ( the main culprit threatening to ‘jib’ me while others held me against a wall) it’s a terrible feeling of helplessness and haunted me for a number of years. Pretty traumatic for Swanson and of course even more so for the poor guys family. Kicking someone in the head when they are on the ground is risking killing them a fair proportion of the time.

houstonhibbee
12-10-2017, 10:09 PM
Very little chance of him getting that long, soft touch court system ....

Surely we value life more than this

houstonhibbee
12-10-2017, 10:10 PM
Very little chance of him getting that long, soft touch court system ....

Hopefully someone will get to him inside

KeithTheHibby
12-10-2017, 10:10 PM
They sound like a right bunch of horrible ****s. Never realised they were involved in bother earlier in the evening.

HibeeMassive
13-10-2017, 08:08 AM
They sound like a right bunch of horrible ****s. Never realised they were involved in bother earlier in the evening.

Yeah, they were out looking for trouble and not fussy who they started it. The guy who's been charged was also on FB in the days after the attack showing absolutely no remorse and wasn't hiding his involvement in it. Glad he's got what's coming to him, I suspect there may be more ahead for him inside too..

calumhibee1
13-10-2017, 08:20 AM
Yeah, they were out looking for trouble and not fussy who they started it. The guy who's been charged was also on FB in the days after the attack showing absolutely no remorse and wasn't hiding his involvement in it. Glad he's got what's coming to him, I suspect there may be more ahead for him inside too..

Seen that at the time. Openly bragging about it saying things like “chat **** get banged” etc. Folk like these guys deserve to die.

Hibbyradge
13-10-2017, 10:10 AM
hopefully someone will get to him inside

ffs.

Hibbyradge
13-10-2017, 10:12 AM
Seen that at the time. Openly bragging about it saying things like “chat **** get banged” etc. Folk like these guys deserve to die.

That's probably the same attitude he had.

Betty Boop
13-10-2017, 11:22 AM
Can't see it.

Given the other convictions along with this one he's looking at 16 years plus imo.
Nah 10 years max imo.

leither17
08-11-2017, 03:36 PM
4 years

Firestarter
08-11-2017, 03:37 PM
Brutal.

staunchhibby
08-11-2017, 03:40 PM
Total injustice for what they done

Bishop Hibee
08-11-2017, 03:42 PM
Out in 3 years tops no doubt if he behaves inside.

Dashing Bob S
08-11-2017, 03:42 PM
4 years

This is getting like the dot count thread.

Firestarter
08-11-2017, 03:44 PM
This is getting like the dot count thread.

No, Thats the ctual sentence.

pacoluna
08-11-2017, 04:14 PM
Out in 3 years tops no doubt if he behaves inside.

9 month

Deansy
08-11-2017, 04:17 PM
4 years for taking a man's life ??? - absolute disgrace !. I can't imagine how Shaun Woodburn's family and friends feel right now, that a supposedly 'learned & intelligent' person - the judge - has shown so much contempt and disdain for Shaun Woodburn and them with such an disgraceful 'sentence' (more of a slap on the wrists, tbh !). It's high time our judicial-system got a massive boot-up-the-xxxx and I'd start with getting rid of those clowns who sit in judgement, with a daft bit of hay on their heads (wtf is that for or meant to show ??) - they're so out of touch with not just modern-society but all society - they live on a different planet !. No-one questions them or dares to, their word is quite literally the law !. They're isolated from normal life and know nothing of it and this appalling sentence just proves it !

leither17
08-11-2017, 04:24 PM
11 months already spent in jail awaiting trial so he will be out on 13 month

cabbageandribs1875
08-11-2017, 04:35 PM
4 years



astonishing, such a low value to put on a victims life, i hope the prosecution appeals such leniency by a tw@t that sits in a silly hat/wig

GreenNWhiteArmy
08-11-2017, 04:36 PM
4 years for taking a man's life ??? - absolute disgrace !. I can't imagine how Shaun Woodburn's family and friends feel right now, that a supposedly 'learned & intelligent' person - the judge - has shown so much contempt and disdain for Shaun Woodburn and them with such an disgraceful 'sentence' (more of a slap on the wrists, tbh !). It's high time our judicial-system got a massive boot-up-the-xxxx and I'd start with getting rid of those clowns who sit in judgement, with a daft bit of hay on their heads (wtf is that for or meant to show ??) - they're so out of touch with not just modern-society but all society - they live on a different planet !. No-one questions them or dares to, their word is quite literally the law !. They're isolated from normal life and know nothing of it and this appalling sentence just proves it !

And should anyone take retribution on the **** bag that committed the crime, they'd face 15-20 years. Its madness.

Plus the fact he was rampaging through town attacking others ahead of this fatal encounter. Disgusting!!

Fuzzywuzzy
08-11-2017, 05:25 PM
Kids have the law wrapped up in a nice little bundle for them. Can do whatever the **** they want and know there is little in consequences for them. Maybe some kind of poetic justice will be served.

JJP
08-11-2017, 05:56 PM
That is scary! Is there another society in the work that is this lenient with murder!? That poor mans family.

.Sean.
08-11-2017, 05:59 PM
That's a disgrace and the judge who handed it out should be taken round the back and shot.

No wonder there are so many growing up with such disregard for the law when 4 years is the punishment for, for want of a better word, the ultimate crime.

These wee rats are nothing more than murderers and the sentance is sickening. They should've got more than 4 years for the crime they commited before they even reached the boozer.

Andy74
08-11-2017, 06:33 PM
That is scary! Is there another society in the work that is this lenient with murder!? That poor mans family.

It wasn’t murder though.

JJP
08-11-2017, 06:57 PM
It wasn’t murder though.

Fine, manslaughter, happy?

Firestarter
08-11-2017, 07:19 PM
That's a disgrace and the judge who handed it out should be taken round the back and shot.

No wonder there are so many growing up with such disregard for the law when 4 years is the punishment for, for want of a better word, the ultimate crime.

These wee rats are nothing more than murderers and the sentance is sickening. They should've got more than 4 years for the crime they commited before they even reached the boozer.

The sad fact is the wee **** will be boasting about it, come out with a reputation and be even worse.

-Jonesy-
08-11-2017, 08:01 PM
Fingers crossed he gets a fist or two up the jet fighter while inside.

-Jonesy-
08-11-2017, 08:02 PM
240 hours of community service for the other lad, total joke

Scouse Hibee
08-11-2017, 08:14 PM
Is that what is classed as justice? An absolute farce of a sentence, they were out to cause injury and harm and ended someone's life FFS.

Pretty Boy
08-11-2017, 08:16 PM
Scandalous sentence.

I was convinced that with the other assaults and the clear intent to engage in violence, if not kill someone, he would get a hefty sentence. 4 years is a disgrace.

I accept there should be a rehabilitation aspect to dealing with crime but that should run parallel to a suitable level of punishment.

Scott Allan Key
08-11-2017, 08:34 PM
Scandalous sentence.

I was convinced that with the other assaults and the clear intent to engage in violence, if not kill someone, he would get a hefty sentence. 4 years is a disgrace.

I accept there should be a rehabilitation aspect to dealing with crime but that should run parallel to a suitable level of punishment.

A family has lost a son, parents have lost a loved one but also a means of support. I kind of think the sentence of the guilty needs to involve a form of debt servitude to the familiy affected.

I thought Danny looked really good when he came on as sub v Aberdeen. He’ll do well as I’m sure we’ll all be giving him the backing he needs.

neil7908
08-11-2017, 08:50 PM
I generally don't comment on stuff like this on here but this is an absolute disgrace.

I honestly can't understand those sentences. I'm very much a wooly hearted liberal about most matters in life but if you go around attacking people all night and end up killing one of them, you deserve to be inside for a long, long time.

Little wannabe hardmen out there will be seeing this as a green light to go around doing as they please.

maturehibby
08-11-2017, 09:05 PM
Crown can appeal which hopefully they do

hibsmum
08-11-2017, 09:15 PM
There’s also a little girl who has lost her dad

Deansy
08-11-2017, 09:16 PM
I generally don't comment on stuff like this on here but this is an absolute disgrace.

I honestly can't understand those sentences. I'm very much a wooly hearted liberal about most matters in life but if you go around attacking people all night and end up killing one of them, you deserve to be inside for a long, long time.

Little wannabe hardmen out there will be seeing this as a green light to go around doing as they please.

Exactly - this shocking, pathetic sentence is as far away from being a deterrent as is possible !

David_D
08-11-2017, 09:23 PM
Ridiculous sentence. Also don't agree with the guys name being withheld for legal reasons. Surely if you do the crime you should be named and shamed. Especially after being found guilty.

Firestarter
08-11-2017, 09:49 PM
There’s also a little girl who has lost her dad

That's the worst part of this whole sorry story for me as a dad of a 2 year old little girl. She won't remember him (in person) regardless of the love that was there and this boy will be out before primary school? Sickening.

blackpoolhibs
08-11-2017, 09:57 PM
That is a shocking punishment, how the judge can come up with 4 bloody years is criminal in itself. I hope there is an appeal by the family on this.

Andy74
08-11-2017, 10:34 PM
Fine, manslaughter, happy?

I’m far from happy when someone has lost their life.

There is legal distinction in the terms for a reason though.

I think 4 yrs is light on this occasion but it is important to understand that sentences are different when circumstances suggest that the intention wasn’t to kill someone.

Going round attacking folk obviously is extremely unpleasant behaviour and it had a tragic ending. I think that sentencing has also considered that at this point it wasn’t just an attack, it was a fight with people coming out the pub armed with things like pool cues.

As I said I think 4 yrs is still light though.

eastterrace
08-11-2017, 10:39 PM
The worlds goosed , these guys go on the rampage and one gets 240 hours community service , he will be laughing at that. I really hate this country at times listening to these politicians spouting crap


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

eastcoasthibby
08-11-2017, 11:02 PM
The intent was there with the 3 of them, they were looking for bother, and a poor guy and his family have become the victims ...young offenders are over.protected by a weak justice set up that thinks, these acts of violence are mistakes by the young person so give.them a chance by a short sentence ....disgusting sentence !!

BroxburnHibee
08-11-2017, 11:15 PM
#justiceforShaun

leither17
09-11-2017, 12:00 AM
https://www.change.org/p/scottish-justice-minister-justiceforshaunwoodburn/c?source_location=petition_show

That’s a link to a petition to ask for the sentence to be appealed hopefully it’s ok to post it here

WeveGotMcginn
09-11-2017, 12:36 AM
https://www.change.org/p/scottish-justice-minister-justiceforshaunwoodburn/c?source_location=petition_show

That’s a link to a petition to ask for the sentence to be appealed hopefully it’s ok to post it here

Signed, can’t believe how his family & friends will be feeling absolutely ridiculous sentence.

snooky
09-11-2017, 01:42 AM
As I've quoted many times, "the Law is an ass". Sadly, sentences like these provide the best examples of it. Utterly disgraceful.

lord bunberry
09-11-2017, 01:50 AM
https://www.change.org/p/scottish-justice-minister-justiceforshaunwoodburn/c?source_location=petition_show

That’s a link to a petition to ask for the sentence to be appealed hopefully it’s ok to post it here
Signed. Disgusting sentence for what he did.

OsloHibs
09-11-2017, 02:53 AM
Truly discusting sentence. No justice.

WellingtonHibby
09-11-2017, 03:09 AM
As I've quoted many times, "the Law is an ass". Sadly, sentences like these provide the best examples of it. Utterly disgraceful.

Genuine question, is the sentence comparable to those handed down to those with similar convictions?

andybev1
09-11-2017, 04:41 AM
And if I read correctly that is with a not guilty plea, which should attract a higher sentence in itself. Hope those victims (families) can try to put it behind them at least now that the trial is over.

InchHibby
09-11-2017, 05:44 AM
Yep. Surprised this ended up with murder charges. Reads very much like a fight that involved a tragic consequence but not murder.

A lawyer doing his job of course but Danny being accused of discrepancies in his evidence and suffering from selective amnesia!
When a guys lying on the ground unconscious, unable to defend himself, unable to protect his body in the natural defensive mode and some idiot takes it upon himself to ferociously kick that person on the head like a football, the head being probably the most dangerous place to inflict such a blow, then I’m sorry, that person knows within, in this case himself, that he is going to inflict major trauma, then that in my mind is nothing short of murder.

GreenNWhiteArmy
09-11-2017, 07:53 AM
Petition signed

J-C
09-11-2017, 08:09 AM
Disgusting sentence for a thug who was going out his way all that night looking to cause hurt and damage to anyone he could. As has been said, a little girl lost her dad, a wife her husband and parents their son, a tragic loss but an even more baffling sentence, hopefully it will be looked at and changed.

Hibs Class
09-11-2017, 08:09 AM
Genuine question, is the sentence comparable to those handed down to those with similar convictions?

This doesn't directly answer your question, but the link below has the sentencing remarks from another recent case, also a culpable homicide conviction, where the length of sentence was similar but there was a guilty plea and where the circumstances couldn't have been more different. (Had the plea not been guilty, the sentence would have been 5 years).


http://www.scotland-judiciary.org.uk/8/1861/HMA-v-Ian-McAllister-Gordon

Viva_Palmeiras
09-11-2017, 08:09 AM
Really thought the way things were panning out that they were clearing a path to nail the guy (dropping:accepting reduced charges for the others). Awful awful awful

hibsbollah
09-11-2017, 08:42 AM
Farcical.

I wonder what the mitigating factors that the judge took into account were? Accused being under the influence? Some members of the bar armed themselves and were fighting back? I'm normally not a 'lock em up and throw away the key' person but that sentence is a total affront to justice.

Betty Boop
09-11-2017, 09:11 AM
Fingers crossed he gets a fist or two up the jet fighter while inside.

Aye lovely prisoners dishing out justice.

easty
09-11-2017, 10:20 AM
Aye lovely prisoners dishing out justice.

I'd be quite happy for prisoners to dish out some real punishment in this case, wouldn't call it justice mind.

Scouse Hibee
09-11-2017, 11:24 AM
Fingers crossed he gets a fist or two up the jet fighter while inside.

It always seems to be the common belief that somehow some form of retribution will be handed out by fellow prisoners. The truth of the matter is they will more than likely be joining like minded **** who will think nothing of their crimes and just countt them as another member of the club

Swedish hibee
09-11-2017, 11:36 AM
The desperately sad thing is that it could've been anyone in Edinburgh that night. I'm sure many on here were out that night.. It could've been any of the other six they targeted earlier that evening. These are very dangerous people to have in society, and 4 years is a discusting sentence. And to have his friends on that evening face zero charges, is equally disgusting. My thoughts & support go to the family of the victim- how must they be feeling today?

Killiehibbie
09-11-2017, 11:38 AM
It always seems to be the common belief that somehow some form of retribution will be handed out by fellow prisoners. The truth of the matter is they will more than likely be joining like minded **** who will think nothing of their crimes and just countt them as another member of the clubA little incentive is all they need.

Pete
09-11-2017, 11:55 AM
That’s absolutely stomach turning. Sentences are far, far too soft in this country for serious crimes and on the other hand we’re giving away stupid wee custodial sentences for trivial matters, wasting so much money.

There’s a tendency to simply accept that these guidelines and all of our laws in general are correct just because they are. Better people than ourselves have overseen them so they must be without flaw. It should be more about punishment and the will of the people.

Prison itself is a joke. He’ll get PlayStations, protein shakes and plenty work out time. He’ll probably come out with a trade too.

Scott Allan Key
09-11-2017, 12:39 PM
It’s the family that have been affected. He has a daughter. They have lost their loved one and a means of support. I wonder how they will support themselves now?

Andy74
09-11-2017, 12:54 PM
The desperately sad thing is that it could've been anyone in Edinburgh that night. I'm sure many on here were out that night.. It could've been any of the other six they targeted earlier that evening. These are very dangerous people to have in society, and 4 years is a discusting sentence. And to have his friends on that evening face zero charges, is equally disgusting. My thoughts & support go to the family of the victim- how must they be feeling today?

To some extent but the other side of that is that there was a choice for some of those that came out the pub.

I don't know the exact detail, just what I read from the court reports but the options were to stay in the pub and stay safe or contact the right authorities to deal with the individuals. Once you get into a fight then there is risk.

JJP
09-11-2017, 01:02 PM
To some extent but the other side of that is that there was a choice for some of those that came out the pub.

I don't know the exact detail, just what I read from the court reports but the options were to stay in the pub and stay safe or contact the right authorities to deal with the individuals. Once you get into a fight then there is risk.

Why would the perpetrators sentence be based on that? They weren’t defending themselves against an attack from people drinking in the pub as far as I am aware. They had attacked multiple people unprovoked that night.

Seveno
09-11-2017, 01:08 PM
This is a very sad tale and it is awful that a man lost his life and so many other lives have been affected.

There can be very few people that know the full facts of the case, the background of the guilty youth and the difference between murder and culpable homicide. It is quite understandable that emotions are running high amongst Shaun Woodburn’s family and others that were close to him. My guess is that many of the people posting on this thread do not fall into any of these categories and, whilst entitled to express their opinion, they perhaps ought to show more constraint.

lord bunberry
09-11-2017, 01:15 PM
This is a very sad tale and it is awful that a man lost his life and so many other lives have been affected.

There can be very few people that know the full facts of the case, the background of the guilty youth and the difference between murder and culpable homicide. It is quite understandable that emotions are running high amongst Shaun Woodburn’s family and others that were close to him. My guess is that many of the people posting on this thread do not fall into any of these categories and, whilst entitled to express their opinion, they perhaps ought to show more constraint.
I think most people will know the difference between murder and culpable homicide, and most will probably know that the judge could’ve given a much tougher sentence for the crime he was convicted of. I agree that most people won’t know the background of the accused, but even allowing for that the sentence is too lenient imo.

Andy74
09-11-2017, 01:17 PM
Why would the perpetrators sentence be based on that? They weren’t defending themselves against an attack from people drinking in the pub as far as I am aware. They had attacked multiple people unprovoked that night.

The sentencing and the charge itself were based on the circumstances on the death - the stuff beforehand is part of it but wouldn't generally see people put away for any length of time.

It took it from being a bit of a random attack to a fight where those that were in the pub had chosen for whatever reason to come out and engage with them - some with pool cues and the like. It is particularly relevant to intent.

To address the point about it could have been any of us - possibly, when thinking about the random attack part of it, possibly not if thinking about the incident itself. We can all choose where we go in the first place and then how we react when some trouble does appear to be kicking off.

I've never been in a fight in my life and so I'm not the person to comment, or perhaps I am as I've consciously tried to ensure that for the sake of me and my family I am not putting myself in those positions. I know sometimes that stuff can happen regardless of trying to avoid - I'm not sure this was one of those times from the reports.

So, for a 17 year old, who appears to have shown remorse but has obviously behaved extremely aggressively and irresponsibly but without obvious intent to kill someone, it is a bit light but not outwith the bounds of what I'd expect.

Iggy Pope
09-11-2017, 01:23 PM
Admins. You'll know best but time to change the thread title? This isn't a discussion about Danny Swanson.

whereswallace?
09-11-2017, 01:38 PM
The sentencing and the charge itself were based on the circumstances on the death - the stuff beforehand is part of it but wouldn't generally see people put away for any length of time.

It took it from being a bit of a random attack to a fight where those that were in the pub had chosen for whatever reason to come out and engage with them - some with pool cues and the like. It is particularly relevant to intent.

To address the point about it could have been any of us - possibly, when thinking about the random attack part of it, possibly not if thinking about the incident itself. We can all choose where we go in the first place and then how we react when some trouble does appear to be kicking off.

I've never been in a fight in my life and so I'm not the person to comment, or perhaps I am as I've consciously tried to ensure that for the sake of me and my family I am not putting myself in those positions. I know sometimes that stuff can happen regardless of trying to avoid - I'm not sure this was one of those times from the reports.

So, for a 17 year old, who appears to have shown remorse but has obviously behaved extremely aggressively and irresponsibly but without obvious intent to kill someone, it is a bit light but not outwith the bounds of what I'd expect.

There wasn't much remorse shown when he was s******ing and laughing in court.

Only when he was found guilty did he show any emotion and that was for himself, not for what he'd done.

hhibs
09-11-2017, 01:39 PM
Admins. You'll know best but time to change the thread title? This isn't a discussion about Danny Swanson.


Quite right,please admins do the needful.

Salt N Sauzee
09-11-2017, 02:16 PM
https://www.change.org/p/scottish-justice-minister-justiceforshaunwoodburn/nftexp/ex19/control/758738152?recruiter=758738152&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial.combo_new_control _progress_110217winners&utm_content=ex19%3Acontrol

sign sign sign

Looper
09-11-2017, 02:19 PM
https://www.change.org/p/scottish-justice-minister-justiceforshaunwoodburn/nftexp/ex19/control/758738152?recruiter=758738152&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial.combo_new_control _progress_110217winners&utm_content=ex19%3Acontrol

sign sign sign

Signed

lyonhibs
09-11-2017, 02:47 PM
This is the kind of grim case that gives the Daily Mail "bring back the death sentence" loonies all the ammo they need.

4 ******g years for killing someone by BOOTING THEM IN THE HEAD AS THEY LAY DEFENCELESS ON THE THE FLOOR?!?!?!

This judge needs a ****in' shake. What was the ****bag actually charged with and what's the maximun legal sentence for that charge?

Pretty Boy
09-11-2017, 03:18 PM
This is the kind of grim case that gives the Daily Mail "bring back the death sentence" loonies all the ammo they need.

4 ******g years for killing someone by BOOTING THEM IN THE HEAD AS THEY LAY DEFENCELESS ON THE THE FLOOR?!?!?!

This judge needs a ****in' shake. What was the ****bag actually charged with and what's the maximun legal sentence for that charge?

Culpable homicide for which the maximum sentence is life imprisonment.

Deansy
09-11-2017, 03:28 PM
https://www.change.org/p/scottish-justice-minister-justiceforshaunwoodburn/c?source_location=petition_show

That’s a link to a petition to ask for the sentence to be appealed hopefully it’s ok to post it here

Signed and FB'd !

surreyhibbie
09-11-2017, 03:35 PM
number of signatures rising every second...

surely the sentence will be reviewed?

eastcoasthibby
09-11-2017, 04:18 PM
When a guys lying on the ground unconscious, unable to defend himself, unable to protect his body in the natural defensive mode and some idiot takes it upon himself to ferociously kick that person on the head like a football, the head being probably the most dangerous place to inflict such a blow, then I’m sorry, that person knows within, in this case himself, that he is going to inflict major trauma, then that in my mind is nothing short of murder.
Totally agree ...and the perpetrator had the opportunity to stop but chose not to, the victim was not presenting as a threat either ...absolutely no reason to continue the attack ....the lesser charge could have been understandable if he stopped and victim survived but the perpetrator didn't so it then became a calculated attack and it then became a murder ..a deplorable disgusting decision

essexhibee
09-11-2017, 04:22 PM
Signed.

Not living in Embra I have only just been reading over the last couple of days. An absolutely disgraceful sentence.

Baader
09-11-2017, 04:48 PM
Signed. A mockery of justice. Shameful.

andybev1
09-11-2017, 05:09 PM
sad to read the tweet from his dad: https://twitter.com/kevinwoodburn



I publicly ask Lady Stacey to meet with me and my family to justify this disgraceful sentence. Explain how my sons life is worth only 4 years punishment pls Lady Stacey. A catalogue of violence and one goes free one a service order and the killer 4 years. #share (https://twitter.com/hashtag/share?src=hash) justiceforshaun

and other angry tweets that I guess are from swanson fam.

delbert
09-11-2017, 05:32 PM
sad to read the tweet from his dad: https://twitter.com/kevinwoodburn



I publicly ask Lady Stacey to meet with me and my family to justify this disgraceful sentence. Explain how my sons life is worth only 4 years punishment pls Lady Stacey. A catalogue of violence and one goes free one a service order and the killer 4 years. #share (https://twitter.com/hashtag/share?src=hash) justiceforshaun

and other angry tweets that I guess are from swanson fam.

I’m guessing that we are not that many years away from the first person in Scotland being given Community Service after a manslaughter conviction. The bold Nicola has already said her Government wants anyone sentenced to less than a year to not be sent to prison, an absolute joke !!

Thecat23
09-11-2017, 05:47 PM
The sentencing and the charge itself were based on the circumstances on the death - the stuff beforehand is part of it but wouldn't generally see people put away for any length of time.

It took it from being a bit of a random attack to a fight where those that were in the pub had chosen for whatever reason to come out and engage with them - some with pool cues and the like. It is particularly relevant to intent.

To address the point about it could have been any of us - possibly, when thinking about the random attack part of it, possibly not if thinking about the incident itself. We can all choose where we go in the first place and then how we react when some trouble does appear to be kicking off.

I've never been in a fight in my life and so I'm not the person to comment, or perhaps I am as I've consciously tried to ensure that for the sake of me and my family I am not putting myself in those positions. I know sometimes that stuff can happen regardless of trying to avoid - I'm not sure this was one of those times from the reports.

So, for a 17 year old, who appears to have shown remorse but has obviously behaved extremely aggressively and irresponsibly but without obvious intent to kill someone, it is a bit light but not outwith the bounds of what I'd expect.

He has shown absolutely no remorse trust me. Also you said earlier about staying inside or going out. If my friends were getting hassle from some randoms I’d have their back. I couldn’t sit watch it kick off and do nothing. It’s a very light sentence for taking someone’s life, but it’s no surprise when we have one of the worst justice systems going. Full of peodos and crooks.

Absolutely gutted for Shaun’s family and I hope they get an appeal. If not I hope the guy who done it gets his life taken one day.

steakbake
09-11-2017, 06:13 PM
I know of a similarly tragic case within culpable homicide.

Folk were in uproar at the sentence. However, the point was that case law dictates what would be the likely sentence. It's not down to the judge's impressions or even their personal point of view which might want to through the book at them. Their role is to put together a judgement and sentence which reflects where case law has reached in relation to the circumstances in front of them. Otherwise, decisions would be based entirely on a reaction and not on a more grounded basis.

There's all sorts of judgments that can be read which refer to other cases and it is on that basis that sentencing decisions are based. It may be that culpable homicide carries a maximum of life. However, a judge cannot sling around a life sentence if the case law doesn't back the circumstances up. There's various aspects to take into account.

It's no comfort to people left behind who decades later, cannot reconcile the decision. I feel for the families in situations like this.

Thecat23
09-11-2017, 06:17 PM
I know of a similarly tragic case within culpable homicide.

Folk were in uproar at the sentence. However, the point was that case law dictates what would be the likely sentence. It's not down to the judge's impressions or even their personal point of view which might want to through the book at them. Their role is to put together a judgement and sentence which reflects where case law has reached in relation to the circumstances in front of them. Otherwise, decisions would be based entirely on a reaction and not on a more grounded basis.

There's all sorts of judgments that can be read which refer to other cases and it is on that basis that sentencing decisions are based. It may be that culpable homicide carries a maximum of life. However, a judge cannot sling around a life sentence if the case law doesn't back the circumstances up. There's various aspects to take into account.

It's no comfort to people left behind who decades later, cannot reconcile the decision. I feel for the families in situations like this.

It’s simple, the law needs changed! You can’t stroll around kicking the **** out folk then end up killing someone. They deserve a lot more than that and I hope they appeal and get him done for longer. Or as I say someone take the ****s life in jail.

steakbake
09-11-2017, 06:19 PM
It’s simple, the law needs changed! You can’t stroll around kicking the **** out folk then end up killing someone. They deserve a lot more than that and I hope they appeal and get him done for longer. Or as I say someone take the ****s life in jail.

It probably does. So appeals have to be made.

HoboHarry
09-11-2017, 06:21 PM
It’s simple, the law needs changed! You can’t stroll around kicking the **** out folk then end up killing someone. They deserve a lot more than that and I hope they appeal and get him done for longer. Or as I say someone take the ****s life in jail.
I would be really surprised if the law did not already allow for a far harsher sentence than the one imposed in this instance - I suspect that the judge is at fault here, not the law.....

Thecat23
09-11-2017, 06:26 PM
I would be really surprised if the law did not already allow for a far harsher sentence than the one imposed in this instance - I suspect that the judge is at fault here, not the law.....

My first thought was the judge hadn’t handed the harshest sentence. No way is that the maximum for what he done.

andybev1
09-11-2017, 06:28 PM
Hope it is not true but someone on FB said it was on TV that there would be no review. Anyone?

Pretty Boy
10-11-2017, 08:58 AM
My first thought was the judge hadn’t handed the harshest sentence. No way is that the maximum for what he done.

It's not the maximum, life is.

However Steakbake has explained above why the Judge had her hands tied to some extent. When a Judge passes a sentence they will refer to other cases of a similar nature and pass a sentence which aligns with them. In the same as why a case like this wasn't tried as murder, because it may get a guilty verdict at trial but is left wide open to appeal, the sentencing also has to reflect that of previous cases or it is left open to appeal and reduction.

That's not saying I agree with the sentence, even allowing for what I have said above. A not guilty plea, the multiple instances of violence on the same evening, the kick to the head and the alleged behaviour in court which contradicted the 'remorse' argument all merited a far tougher sentence than was handed down. Hopefully the Crown can put together a case on appeal that ensures that happens.

Hibrandenburg
10-11-2017, 10:44 AM
It's crimes like this that throw me into a rage. I can kind of get my head around killing someone for money, because you hate them, want revenge, fear them or even just in a fit of anger. But risking killing someone random and unknown to you whilst satisfying your own sense of self-importance or own egotistical urges because the consequences to others are of lesser or no importance to you gets me so angry. I don't know why and even reading what I've just written makes little sense to me, but it somehow angers me more than someone killing with a clear motive. It's probably just the senselessness of it all.

murray26
10-11-2017, 12:50 PM
Signed👍 Hopefully something can be done about this joke of a judge.. not in touch with reality.

OsloHibs
10-11-2017, 05:46 PM
Signed. Almost at 50,000. Shocking to see the lads friends messages on twitter. What a world we all live in.

Thecat23
10-11-2017, 05:55 PM
It's not the maximum, life is.

However Steakbake has explained above why the Judge had her hands tied to some extent. When a Judge passes a sentence they will refer to other cases of a similar nature and pass a sentence which aligns with them. In the same as why a case like this wasn't tried as murder, because it may get a guilty verdict at trial but is left wide open to appeal, the sentencing also has to reflect that of previous cases or it is left open to appeal and reduction.

That's not saying I agree with the sentence, even allowing for what I have said above. A not guilty plea, the multiple instances of violence on the same evening, the kick to the head and the alleged behaviour in court which contradicted the 'remorse' argument all merited a far tougher sentence than was handed down. Hopefully the Crown can put together a case on appeal that ensures that happens.

Sorry PB but she never had her hands tied at all. This is the problem she could have made an example by dishing out a much fairer sentence and just because of other cases like this doesn’t mean she has to follow suit. It’s utter ***** and the judge is a ****ing idiot.

ancient hibee
10-11-2017, 06:10 PM
Unfortunately that’s not the way it works.Any sentence out of the ballpark of similar offences would be appealed and reduced.

Just Alf
10-11-2017, 07:00 PM
Unfortunately that’s not the way it works.Any sentence out of the ballpark of similar offences would be appealed and reduced.I know what you're saying but if the sentence was appealed and a review upheld it (even slightly reduced it), would that not "stretch" the ballpark and influence future cases?


Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Firestarter
10-11-2017, 07:15 PM
I've no idea why anyone wouldn't sign it. Even if there's reservations it will make a difference.

hibsbollah
10-11-2017, 07:15 PM
I know what you're saying but if the sentence was appealed and a review upheld it (even slightly reduced it), would that not "stretch" the ballpark and influence future cases?


Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Exactly. Im far from a legal expert but it sounds to me that the 'case law' defence is inadequate to explain away a perverse sentence like this one. Unless I have misunderstood and the judge has no discretion at all to filter out previous cases? And of course, no two cases are ever exactly the same.

18Hibee75
10-11-2017, 07:19 PM
4 years is not only a disgrace, but its hard to believe. Complete and utter disrespect to Shaun, his family and his friends. I know that the boy who done it got a very rough time before and was put on suicide watch - honestly hope he gets treated the same way inside jail. Disgusting little wannabe gangster.
Danny Swanson mentioned this on Instagram and I 100% am with him, he said that it is a disgrace that Ched Evans got 5 years for a crime he didn't do, and this ****bag gets 4 years for murder. It just doesn't add up!
The boy who was Co involved with the murder gets 240 hours community payback?!?! 240 hours?? Is that a joke? I know people who got the same for being on the pitch at hampden. The court system is *****ed. Please, please, please can everyone sign the petition - it won't bring Shaun back, but it will hopefully add time to this ****bags sentence.

Sent from my F3211 using Tapatalk

Bostonhibby
10-11-2017, 07:28 PM
The way our legal system has found itself having to, or choosing to deal with these cowards is simply unbelievable. If this decision was to be unwound and a real sentence imposed on the lot of them I don't think the overwhelming majority would mind them being removed from the streets for much much longer.

There might well be a wider academic debate to be had about the original logic that effectively leaves the guilty and their hangers on having a laugh at the rest of us but it's of no real interest to those who want to see the punishment fit the crime, here it hasn't.

I find it quite offensive to the rest of us that someone actually thinks that in creating the law and administering it on all of our behalves this is acceptable - did they really think that this outcome would be okay should a case of this type arise?

Signed.

lapsedhibee
10-11-2017, 07:32 PM
Shocking to see the lads friends messages on twitter. What a world we all live in.
Link?

Pretty Boy
10-11-2017, 07:42 PM
Sorry PB but she never had her hands tied at all. This is the problem she could have made an example by dishing out a much fairer sentence and just because of other cases like this doesn’t mean she has to follow suit. It’s utter ***** and the judge is a ****ing idiot.

I'm not disagreeing trust me. Just trying to explain how and why the Judge has made her decision.

Fwiw I agree this was a chance to lay a futute precedent for sentencing when it comes to premeditated violence and the consequences of that. If there is an appeal I hope that is what we see.

Jdawg
10-11-2017, 08:29 PM
Exactly. Im far from a legal expert but it sounds to me that the 'case law' defence is inadequate to explain away a perverse sentence like this one. Unless I have misunderstood and the judge has no discretion at all to filter out previous cases? And of course, no two cases are ever exactly the same.

Judges are constrained by the sentencing rules. Judges are hamstrung by the said rules, which are set by legislation/public policy. I'm sure that the high court technically has unlimited sentencing powers.

Better to give longest sentence possible, deservedly so in this case and then let them appeal it.

Cropley10
10-11-2017, 08:46 PM
It's hard to prove that legally though.

For a murder conviction there has to be evidence and proof beyond reasonable doubt that the lad in questions intention that night was to kill someone. It may be that the emotive nature of the case could see a jury convinced but, much as I don't like it, it leaves the conviction wide open to appeal. Culpable homicide (I assume it's been deemed voluntary under Scots Law) goes some way to ensuring a guilty verdict and keeps a hefty sentence on the table up to and including life imprisonment.

"Culpable homicide is committed where the accused has caused loss of life through wrongful conduct, but where there was no intention to kill or "wicked recklessness".

Which means that in this case, it was deemed that kicking an already unconscious man with great force in the head was wrongful conduct and there can have been no intention to kill.

Which ialmost seems absurd.

Surely they need to lock this guy up for much, much longer and the other lad needs a custodial as well.

Nakedmanoncrack
10-11-2017, 08:48 PM
I’m far from happy when someone has lost their life.

There is legal distinction in the terms for a reason though.

I think 4 yrs is light on this occasion but it is important to understand that sentences are different when circumstances suggest that the intention wasn’t to kill someone.

Going round attacking folk obviously is extremely unpleasant behaviour and it had a tragic ending. I think that sentencing has also considered that at this point it wasn’t just an attack, it was a fight with people coming out the pub armed with things like pool cues.

As I said I think 4 yrs is still light though.

Tend to agree 4 years is definitely towards the lighter end of sentencing, though not wildly far away from what I'd expect. While this is high profile & means a lot to some of us, looked at from the detached position of the judge, none of that matters. The tragic circumstances of somebody dying in a mass street brawl between two groups,are sadly not unique, or particularly unusual.

lapsedhibee
10-11-2017, 08:52 PM
"Culpable homicide is committed where the accused has caused loss of life through wrongful conduct, but where there was no intention to kill or "wicked recklessness".

Which means that in this case, it was deemed that kicking an already unconscious man with great force in the head was wrongful conduct and there can have been no intention to kill.

Quite hard to see what would count as 'wicked recklessness' if kicking someone's head while they're lying still on the ground doesn't.

kaimendhibs
10-11-2017, 09:03 PM
Quite hard to see what would count as 'wicked recklessness' if kicking someone's head while they're lying still on the ground doesn't.**** culpable homicide. Should be murder and life sentence. Didnt happen by accident did it. Shocking sentence

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Baader
10-11-2017, 09:11 PM
Tend to agree 4 years is definitely towards the lighter end of sentencing, though not wildly far away from what I'd expect. While this is high profile & means a lot to some of us, looked at from the detached position of the judge, none of that matters. The tragic circumstances of somebody dying in a mass street brawl between two groups,are sadly not unique, or particularly unusual.

It was not an isolated incident though. They were also up against charges of assault that occurred before the tragic circumstances in Leith. The sentence is a disgrace.

Skol
10-11-2017, 09:16 PM
**** culpable homicide. Should be murder and life sentence. Didnt happen by accident did it. Shocking sentence

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

I agree the sentence seems very light for the offense. However, I understand murder to be the intent to and actually killing someone. I dont think that this action was meant to kill.

Andy74
10-11-2017, 09:25 PM
It was not an isolated incident though. They were also up against charges of assault that occurred before the tragic circumstances in Leith. The sentence is a disgrace.

Again not unusual though and nothing that would attract much of a sentence.

This sort of stuff does unfortunately happen day in and day out.

The judge might just be closer to the real world than many would appreciate.

calumhibee1
10-11-2017, 09:29 PM
Again not unusual though and nothing that would attract much of a sentence.

This sort of stuff does unfortunately happen day in and day out.

The judge might just be closer to the real world than many would appreciate.

They sort of things happen day in day out as isolated incidents, not 3 young pricks going on a rampage around town trying to reconfigure everyone’s face that they see and then ending with a murder. They all should have been locked up for a minimum of 4 years and the boy that landed the fatal blow should have been hammered.

Thecat23
10-11-2017, 10:28 PM
Again not unusual though and nothing that would attract much of a sentence.

This sort of stuff does unfortunately happen day in and day out.

The judge might just be closer to the real world than many would appreciate.

You think the judge is closer to the real world? Wow!!

Not sure you are trying to just go against things for the sake of it but come into the real world Andy, guy hasn’t just taken a life he’s ruined Shaun’s family as well. Made worse by the judges decision of dishing out 4 years. I sugggest you read exactly what happened that night and if you still think this judge is closer to the real world I suggest you both live on that planet as it’s not the one most of us live on.

Stunned you can defend the judge!

ancient hibee
10-11-2017, 11:11 PM
Clearly judges in criminal trials sit listening day after day to the most awful things.The idea that they know nothing about the real world is ludicrous.

heretoday
10-11-2017, 11:20 PM
I agree the sentence seems very light for the offense. However, I understand murder to be the intent to and actually killing someone. I dont think that this action was meant to kill.

She could have given him ten years and it would have played better with the public and media but he'd have been out long before that.

Dashing Bob S
11-11-2017, 12:06 AM
This sentence must be a slap in the face for Shaun’s family and friends. I know that it wouldn’t have brought him back whether the accused had recieved 10 or 20 years, but to see some semblance of justice dispensed would have given some comfort,

But I believe these threads become a forum for people to amp themselves up with a poisonous anger. If folk genuinely care they should sign the petition. (As I’ve done) This constitutes a helpful and practical move beyond boorish keyboard chest beating.

andybev1
11-11-2017, 12:38 AM
I have read many stories in the past where 'one punch killers' have been given more severe sentences than this guy - here is one case that is a less violent assault. This proves that the judge could have given a more severe sentence if heshe wanted to.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/one-punch-killers-who-shattered-9916472

Andy74
11-11-2017, 12:57 AM
I have read many stories in the past where 'one punch killers' have been given more severe sentences than this guy - here is one case that is a less violent assault. This proves that the judge could have given a more severe sentence if heshe wanted to.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/one-punch-killers-who-shattered-9916472

Most of the examples in that link come in around the four year mark. This case is also a little different as it appears the victim unfortunately came out the pub to join in a fight as opposed to just being approached and hit.

CMurdoch
11-11-2017, 01:41 AM
Never punch or kick anyone to the head.
A lesson lots of people need to take on board.
Tragic stuff.

steakbake
11-11-2017, 04:08 AM
Never punch or kick anyone to the head.
A lesson lots of people need to take on board.
Tragic stuff.

Amen to that. Folks seem to think it's like in films where you can batter someone around and the worst that'll happen is they'll be knocked out. All too easy to kill someone in a fight.

If people are willing to fight, they don't think that the risk is to kill but it happens somewhere in Scotland every other weekend.

andybev1
11-11-2017, 05:20 AM
I must admit that it looks like you are correct (re past sentences) and this scandal has been discussed for years from what I have read - it needs to be changed.

I still think though that the fact that he did not plead guilty and the fact he did not show remorse - how could he possibly show remorse if he plead not guilty? Those two things alone should add at least two years.

SouthMoroccoStu
11-11-2017, 07:19 AM
Apparently these MURDERERS (because that's what they are) have got a rap sheet the length of your arm and are very well known to police

They ran amok on a night of terror which resulted in the death of a young man. A brother, son, friend and father lost due to a drink or drug fuelled cowardly act.

What really irks me is the focus on their ages, the justice system seem to use this as a excuse. With time served and "good behaviour" he could be out before Shaun's daughter has started primary school

Due to their age, they can't be legally named. Someone with a better understanding of the law will be able to tell me this means they get their records cleaned after 21?

Like many in here, I know their names and have seen their faces. To me, this should be shared far and wide

Their disgusting act should never be forgiven or forgotten

Thecat23
11-11-2017, 07:23 AM
Apparently these MURDERERS (because that's what they are) have got a rap sheet the length of your arm and are very well known to police

They ran amok on a night of terror which resulted in the death of a young man. A brother, son, friend and father lost due to a drink or drug fuelled cowardly act.

What really irks me is the focus on their ages, the justice system seem to use this as a excuse. With time served and "good behaviour" he could be out before Shaun's daughter has started primary school

Due to their age, they can't be legally named. Someone with a better understanding of the law will be able to tell me this means they get their records cleaned after 21?

Like many in here, I know their names and have seen their faces. To me, this should be shared far and wide

Their disgusting act should never be forgiven or forgotten

Well said.

green day
11-11-2017, 07:32 AM
What really irks me is the focus on their ages, the justice system seem to use this as a excuse. With time served and "good behaviour" he could be out before Shaun's daughter has started primary school

Almost certainly, he will have been on remand most of this year, so might only do another year/year and a half which seems brutal.

Police said he was known to them for criminality for 3-4 years......which means he's been at it since he was my son's age. I can't fathom that.

I wonder what caused this laddie to turn into such a nutter at such a young age?

The Baldmans Comb
11-11-2017, 07:33 AM
Like everyone else I am struggling to come to terms with the leniency of the sentence however I am also struggling to find an accurate account of what happenned prior to the sickening "murder"/homicide.

I believe a group of men came out of the pub some of them armed with pool cues to confront the three thugs and a tragic fight then occurred.

Is this right?. There were 3 thugs but how many bar regulars confronted them.?

And why were the men in the pub so threatened that they needed to bring pool cues or in the case of Danny Swansons cousin possibly holding and then throwing a brick.

Were the thugs tooled up with weapons as well such as blades? They were nasty as Fck and certainly sounded capable of this.

Had they already assaulted people in the bar?. Maybe a friend or relation.

The thugs had definetly assaulted others elsewhere in the city but what so enraged Shaun,Danny, his cousin and maybe others?

Did Shaun Woodburn have a pool cue in his hand prior to the fatal fight.? Was the thug who confronted him armed?

Was the tragic fight 3 v 3?

Was Danny Swanson involved in the fight or just a bystander.? His evidence was described as "selective amnesia". Lawyer speak of course but what couldn't he remember?

I just cant get my head around the sentence either but not sure if I am being given all the facts.

Does anyone have access to the court transcripts? or know the answers.?

Benny Brazil
11-11-2017, 08:35 AM
Like everyone else I am struggling to come to terms with the leniency of the sentence however I am also struggling to find an accurate account of what happenned prior to the sickening "murder"/homicide.

I believe a group of men came out of the pub some of them armed with pool cues to confront the three thugs and a tragic fight then occurred.

Is this right?. There were 3 thugs but how many bar regulars confronted them.?

And why were the men in the pub so threatened that they needed to bring pool cues or in the case of Danny Swansons cousin possibly holding and then throwing a brick.

Were the thugs tooled up with weapons as well such as blades? They were nasty as Fck and certainly sounded capable of this.

Had they already assaulted people in the bar?. Maybe a friend or relation.

The thugs had definetly assaulted others elsewhere in the city but what so enraged Shaun,Danny, his cousin and maybe others?

Did Shaun Woodburn have a pool cue in his hand prior to the fatal fight.? Was the thug who confronted him armed?

Was the tragic fight 3 v 3?

Was Danny Swanson involved in the fight or just a bystander.? His evidence was described as "selective amnesia". Lawyer speak of course but what couldn't he remember?

I just cant get my head around the sentence either but not sure if I am being given all the facts.

Does anyone have access to the court transcripts? or know the answers.?

From what I have read Danny's dad was outside the pub when these lads came along and for whatever reason they attacked Danny's dad first that was what kicked off the whole incident and I may be wrong but it was because of that that some of the people inside came out

The Baldmans Comb
11-11-2017, 08:45 AM
From what I have read Danny's dad was outside the pub when these lads came along and for whatever reason they attacked Danny's dad first that was what kicked off the whole incident and I may be wrong but it was because of that that some of the people inside came out

Thanks and if that's the case then that's exactly the sort of thing that should be getting reported. Isn't he the bar owner and maybe there was a scenario whereby he asked the thugs outside to GTF and they attacked him so nae wonder the family/regulars were enraged.


The reporting on this case like so many is just so poor.

calumhibee1
11-11-2017, 09:04 AM
Apparently these MURDERERS (because that's what they are) have got a rap sheet the length of your arm and are very well known to police

They ran amok on a night of terror which resulted in the death of a young man. A brother, son, friend and father lost due to a drink or drug fuelled cowardly act.

What really irks me is the focus on their ages, the justice system seem to use this as a excuse. With time served and "good behaviour" he could be out before Shaun's daughter has started primary school

Due to their age, they can't be legally named. Someone with a better understanding of the law will be able to tell me this means they get their records cleaned after 21?

Like many in here, I know their names and have seen their faces. To me, this should be shared far and wide

Their disgusting act should never be forgiven or forgotten

I can’t fathom the hidden identity part either. There identities however are plastered all over Facebook and Twitter and have been ever since the event occurred. Apparently at least one of them is actually from Leith, id be surprised if he’s ever seen round these parts again.

My_Wife_Camille
11-11-2017, 09:38 AM
I can’t fathom the hidden identity part either. There identities however are plastered all over Facebook and Twitter and have been ever since the event occurred. Apparently at least one of them is actually from Leith, id be surprised if he’s ever seen round these parts again.
They can’t be named until they are 18 because of reporting restrictions. It’s the same with any accused, witness or victim involved in any legal proceeding in Scotland.

CraigHibee
11-11-2017, 10:34 AM
the sentence dished out is disgusting, regardless of being a juvenile or adult if you commit a murder then the length of sentence should be the same imo.

Cropley10
11-11-2017, 11:57 AM
Most of the examples in that link come in around the four year mark. This case is also a little different as it appears the victim unfortunately came out the pub to join in a fight as opposed to just being approached and hit.

If you got nothing good to say, don't say it. All you know is what you've read in the papers. Using terms like 'to join a fight' is meaningless - he didn't fight anyone, this is the whole point, being there isn't a crime, nor mitigation.

And I don't think you'd have the balls to say any of this to his family, or indeed anyone who was actually there. You just like spouting off on here.

Chuck Rhoades
11-11-2017, 12:26 PM
You just like spouting off on here.

Nothing new there then.

ancient hibee
11-11-2017, 12:45 PM
As long as we have a government that wants to centralise everything leading to doing away with local policing in favour of a countrywide force and then cutting back to save money we will have these incidents.In the old days(hate to use that term but..)these thugs would never have reached Leith but would have been picked up long before.Look at the recent bonfire night-the police were forced off the streets.Meanwhile the Scotnats want to move to a judicial system where anyone who would have been sentenced to 12 months or less will not be jailed-regardless of the crime.I suggest some of you have a word with Kenny Macaskill the next time you see him at Easter Road-he started this off.

easty
11-11-2017, 12:51 PM
As long as we have a government that wants to centralise everything leading to doing away with local policing in favour of a countrywide force and then cutting back to save money we will have these incidents.In the old days(hate to use that term but..)these thugs would never have reached Leith but would have been picked up long before.Look at the recent bonfire night-the police were forced off the streets.Meanwhile the Scotnats want to move to a judicial system where anyone who would have been sentenced to 12 months or less will not be jailed-regardless of the crime.I suggest some of you have a word with Kenny Macaskill the next time you see him at Easter Road-he started this off.

Aye, but meanwhile...that's got nothing to do with what actually happened, has it?

Thecat23
11-11-2017, 12:58 PM
If you got nothing good to say, don't say it. All you know is what you've read in the papers. Using terms like 'to join a fight' is meaningless - he didn't fight anyone, this is the whole point, being there isn't a crime, nor mitigation.

And I don't think you'd have the balls to say any of this to his family, or indeed anyone who was actually there. You just like spouting off on here.

Glad I’m not the only one who thinks this.

ancient hibee
11-11-2017, 12:59 PM
How hasn't it? Lack of police on the street is a huge problem.

easty
11-11-2017, 01:03 PM
How hasn't it? Lack of police on the street is a huge problem.

I was referring to your "meanwhile" point.

hibsmum
11-11-2017, 01:12 PM
Shaun did not go out to join in a fight , they attacked him for no reason . Danny’s Dad was trying to stop anything happening and got smacked in the face for his efforts , it was not a mass brawl by the time people came out the pub Shaun was already seriously injured. I know I was in the pub that night and nobody in the pub was looking for any kind of trouble.

blackpoolhibs
11-11-2017, 01:12 PM
As a society, i cant quite get my head around how we can equate a 4 year prison sentence for ending someone's life, whether it be murder or manslaughter or any other name for someone losing their life?

While we seem to have so little regard for life now, these sentences will get shorter, and how long before someone just gets community service for something like this?

Its just madness in my opinion.

Thecat23
11-11-2017, 01:17 PM
Shaun did not go out to join in a fight , they attacked him for no reason . Danny’s Dad was trying to stop anything happening and got smacked in the face for his efforts , it was not a mass brawl by the time people came out the pub Shaun was already seriously injured. I know I was in the pub that night and nobody in the pub was looking for any kind of trouble.

You shouldn’t need to come on to justify Shaun. Those who know the real facts know this sentence is nothing short of a joke. Those picking out things like ‘but it’s like other cases’ don’t live in the real world. Shaun didn’t deserve this he wasn’t after a fight. Feel so sorry on his family.

EH6 Hibby
11-11-2017, 01:56 PM
I don’t know what happened because I wasn’t there, but I get the impression that some people are listening to the defence lawyers version of what happened. Obviously he’s going to try and play down his clients for involvement because it was clear from the start his client was guilty. He’s tried to paint a picture where his client was trying to defend himself against a group of fully grown tooled up men. That might have washed if he hadn’t been walking around town all night punching anything that moved.

hibbiedon
11-11-2017, 02:04 PM
As long as we have a government that wants to centralise everything leading to doing away with local policing in favour of a countrywide force and then cutting back to save money we will have these incidents.In the old days(hate to use that term but..)these thugs would never have reached Leith but would have been picked up long before.Look at the recent bonfire night-the police were forced off the streets.Meanwhile the Scotnats want to move to a judicial system where anyone who would have been sentenced to 12 months or less will not be jailed-regardless of the crime.I suggest some of you have a word with Kenny Macaskill the next time you see him at Easter Road-he started this off.

Why is it these pathetic unionists want to blame the Scots for everything, politics had nothing to do with this vile murder. Are you seriously trying to say that there are no crimes in England.

Lago
11-11-2017, 02:11 PM
How hasn't it? Lack of police on the street is a huge problem.
Your right, but equally a lot of people today no longer fear/respect the police, they know in a lot of cases they will not be caught, if caught they don't fear the courts because they have a good chance of getting off or community service. Should they actually be sentenced to jail time no big deal it's easy & they will be out in no time. When I was young, some time ago, if a police man told me to do something I did it, no cheek, no talking back, you did it. Not now.

Lago
11-11-2017, 02:14 PM
Why is it these pathetic unionists want to blame the Scots for everything, politics had nothing to do with this vile murder. Are you seriously trying to say that there are no crimes in England.
Of course there are crimes in England, but lets stick to Scotland with it's soft touch Policing & sentencing. Jails, well seems to be spice heaven.

Andy74
11-11-2017, 02:17 PM
If you got nothing good to say, don't say it. All you know is what you've read in the papers. Using terms like 'to join a fight' is meaningless - he didn't fight anyone, this is the whole point, being there isn't a crime, nor mitigation.

And I don't think you'd have the balls to say any of this to his family, or indeed anyone who was actually there. You just like spouting off on here.

Away you go and no need for the tone.

I’ll decide which discussions I take part in thanks. Like everyone else I’m going on what’s been reported.

It’s enough info for some to have decided the sentence need to be changed and people have been very vocal in that. I happen to have another view which is that on the balance of what I’ve read I can see why it was set as it is.

Having a law degree does mean I tend to look at this stuff from that point of view, taking away the fact it may be local, linked to a Hibs player etc.

guthrie01
11-11-2017, 02:41 PM
Away you go and no need for the tone.

I’ll decide which discussions I take part in thanks. Like everyone else I’m going on what’s been reported.

It’s enough info for some to have decided the sentence need to be changed and people have been very vocal in that. I happen to have another view which is that on the balance of what I’ve read I can see why it was set as it is.

Having a law degree does mean I tend to look at this stuff from that point of view, taking away the fact it may be local, linked to a Hibs player etc.

Sorry but your post sounds like your simply trying to go against the majority. Having a law degree doesn’t change the facts, a man was murdered by a thug and he is only getting four years in prison.

I hope that an appeal is done and the correct punishment is put in place for the family/friends to at least know the man which killed Shaun won’t be roaming the streets again by 2021

Pretty Boy
11-11-2017, 02:52 PM
You shouldn’t need to come on to justify Shaun. Those who know the real facts know this sentence is nothing short of a joke. Those picking out things like ‘but it’s like other cases’ don’t live in the real world. Shaun didn’t deserve this he wasn’t after a fight. Feel so sorry on his family.

Sorry but that's unfair. Trying to explain how a judge came to a decision isn't justifying it and explaining why in law other cases are looked at isn't doing so either.

I can't speak for others but personally I've never once felt, or argued, that anyone 'deserved' anything and as one of only 2 or 3 people who have taken a slightly different path on the discussion I'm offended if that's aimed at me.

I can only speak for myself but I find it perfectly possible to be angry both about what happened and the sentence passed, which I most definitely am, and able to put the sentence into a wider context as well. As for living in the real world? I think being aware of what a sentence for culpable homicide can be expected to be is very much living in the real world. That's the real problem in this situation, not people dicsussing it.

My_Wife_Camille
11-11-2017, 02:54 PM
Away you go and no need for the tone.

I’ll decide which discussions I take part in thanks. Like everyone else I’m going on what’s been reported.

It’s enough info for some to have decided the sentence need to be changed and people have been very vocal in that. I happen to have another view which is that on the balance of what I’ve read I can see why it was set as it is.

Having a law degree does mean I tend to look at this stuff from that point of view, taking away the fact it may be local, linked to a Hibs player etc.
Having a law degree has **** all to do with it. As usual you are trying (and failing) to look clever by going against the majority and implying that you know something that the rest don’t. As soon as I saw you had replied to this thread I knew for a fact you’d be on here with saying something different to everyone else. You’re that predictable.

This is one you should have just left alone. A man has died. It doesn’t matter what the circumstances were, he is dead and his family, friends and the wider Leith, Hibs, Edinburgh community have been hugely affected by it, including a number of people who post on here. Your selfish and patronising attempts at a reasoned and rational ‘discussion’ are not wanted or needed just now.

Thecat23
11-11-2017, 02:56 PM
Sorry but that's unfair. Trying to explain how a judge came to a decision isn't justifying it and explaining why in law other cases are looked at isn't doing so either.

I can't speak for others but personally I've never once felt, or argued, that anyone 'deserved' anything and as one of only 2 or 3 people who have taken a slightly different path on the discussion I'm offended if that's aimed at me.

I can only speak for myself but I find it perfectly possible to be angry both about what happened and the sentence passed, which I most definitely am, and able to put the sentence into a wider context as well. As for living in the real world? I think being aware of what a sentence for culpable homicide can be expected to be is very much living in the real world. That's the real problem in this situation, not people dicsussing it.

None of my post was aimed at youself PB. It’s the tone of others that has me pissed off. Yes have an opinion but seems this person is just going against everything and I find it very disrespectful to the family of Shaun.

Pretty Boy
11-11-2017, 02:58 PM
None of my post was aimed at youself PB. It’s the tone of others that has me pissed off. Yes have an opinion but seems this person is just going against everything and I find it very disrespectful to the family of Shaun.

No bother. It's an emotive subject and there's, quite rightly, a lot of anger and strong feelings.

Thecat23
11-11-2017, 02:59 PM
Away you go and no need for the tone.

I’ll decide which discussions I take part in thanks. Like everyone else I’m going on what’s been reported.

It’s enough info for some to have decided the sentence need to be changed and people have been very vocal in that. I happen to have another view which is that on the balance of what I’ve read I can see why it was set as it is.

Having a law degree does mean I tend to look at this stuff from that point of view, taking away the fact it may be local, linked to a Hibs player etc.

No one cares about if you have a law degree, this isn’t about you Andy! You seriously need to come into the real world things like this aren’t just clear cut.

Nakedmanoncrack
11-11-2017, 03:08 PM
Away you go and no need for the tone.

I’ll decide which discussions I take part in thanks. Like everyone else I’m going on what’s been reported.

It’s enough info for some to have decided the sentence need to be changed and people have been very vocal in that. I happen to have another view which is that on the balance of what I’ve read I can see why it was set as it is.

Having a law degree does mean I tend to look at this stuff from that point of view, taking away the fact it may be local, linked to a Hibs player etc.

:agree:

Only way to look at it is objectively, setting aside the understandable emotion on display here.

guthrie01
11-11-2017, 03:12 PM
:agree:

Only way to look at it is objectively, setting aside the understandable emotion on display here.

Here’s a wild thought... people are looking at this objectively, studying the case and still not understanding the stupid sentence, hence the anger and disappointment rising from people who want to seek a more deserving punishment

IGRIGI
11-11-2017, 03:13 PM
As long as we have a government that wants to centralise everything leading to doing away with local policing in favour of a countrywide force and then cutting back to save money we will have these incidents.In the old days(hate to use that term but..)these thugs would never have reached Leith but would have been picked up long before.Look at the recent bonfire night-the police were forced off the streets.Meanwhile the Scotnats want to move to a judicial system where anyone who would have been sentenced to 12 months or less will not be jailed-regardless of the crime.I suggest some of you have a word with Kenny Macaskill the next time you see him at Easter Road-he started this off.

Have a word with yourself bringing that nonsense onto this thread.

Cropley10
11-11-2017, 04:54 PM
Away you go and no need for the tone.

I’ll decide which discussions I take part in thanks. Like everyone else I’m going on what’s been reported.

It’s enough info for some to have decided the sentence need to be changed and people have been very vocal in that. I happen to have another view which is that on the balance of what I’ve read I can see why it was set as it is.

Having a law degree does mean I tend to look at this stuff from that point of view, taking away the fact it may be local, linked to a Hibs player etc.

"Having a law degree"..... deary me, that's cringeworthy. Whatever you've done with it, I can guarantee it isn't to practice criminal law.

Nevertheless you're going on 'what's reported', what you read in the papers, which has actually been very little.

And rather than - like any good lawyer can - be able to argue BOTH sides of the argument, you're really just sort of trolling, or at he least being deliberately obtuse, while having nothing to say other than a wee bit of innuendo.

Sad.

marinello59
11-11-2017, 05:08 PM
This has veered off topic so probably best to close it.