Summer football in Scotland. Is it a good idea in principle?

[Hibbyradge]

Would you support a move to summer football in Scotland?

In addition to voting in the the poll, what are the reasons behind your preference?

[MyJo]

Restructure into leagues of 16 playing a 30 game season, run the season from March to November with a mid-season break in July to accomodate for summer holidays and international tournaments.

Our teams in Europe will be better prepared for the qualifying rounds in the summer if they come mid-season, we differentiate ourselves from the english leagues and try to operate a bit more like the scandanavian countries rather than trying to be a poor knock-off of the english game

[Jones28]

Yes, absolutely. We need to give our game as good a chance as we can in Europe and the summer football switch would mean our teams would be more prepared.

[theonlywayisup]

No! No! No! Never!

As a keen golfer, please define what we mean by Summer football.

The weather is Scotland over the 'summer' is often grim. Endless days of rain, often heavy rain.

The weather in March / April / May and September / October is often the most settled that we get.

The weather in November to February is colder, but it's amazing how many mild, dry, calm days we get. I've always maintained that there's been better days for playing golf in the winter than during the summer.

Add to that many people will be away on holiday from June through to August - either to tie in with school holidays or to avoid school holidays - and thus buying a season ticket would be a non-starter. The big loser is the football club deprived of season ticket income.

So for me, that's three less season tickets and I know there will be a lot of others in the same situation. Anyone purchasing season tickets due to summer football will be considerably outnumbered by those choosing not to purchase one.

On paper, it's a fine idea, but not workable unless you live in a country with harsh winters and a 'summer'.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

It's a no from me. Always has been.

Restructure the league. 16 teams - 30 games and keep the split totalling 37 games.

Reallign the calendar to July - April thus pre season starts in June (or late may) for those involved in European football meaning they get 4/5 weeks training before any games.

Bingo

[Sir David Gray]

Nope not for me. I do various other things during June and early July and moving the football season to this part of the year would have a significant impact on me taking out a season ticket.

The weather in Scotland is also not good enough in the official summer months to justify moving the season to this time of year. Some of the worst rainfall I've experienced has come in July.

I'm also quite happy having something to do at Christmas/New Year time. This period is bleak enough without having any football!

[theonlywayisup]

Heavy rain can happen anytime of the year, but it's amazing how often we get wet summers. See below for the period from December 2016 to June 2017. The website stated "2017 has been quite a remarkable year in Edinburgh as regards precipitation, after what was the driest April on record, June has now been declared the wettest on record at the Botanic Gardens in the city. Here are the accumulations from the 14th of December last year (fig 1) from the SYNOP reports". Summer football, anyone!!

http://www.xmetman.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Hyetograph-for-Edinburgh-Gogarbank-0600-14-12-2016-0600-30-06-2017.png

[Bishop Hibee]

No. Summer months in Edinburgh have the highest rainfall. http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2650225 Also due to global warming our winters are not as harsh anymore. Add this to the fact that I go on holiday in July or August and have weekends away then summer football would mean it would not be worth my while having a season ticket due to the games I'd miss.

Lets promote Scotland's national sport positively and not try gimmicks like summer football.

[Hibbyradge]

Restructure into leagues of 16 playing a 30 game season



Clubs would face a loss of 21% plus income from home games, and advertising and sponsorship revenue would also reduce along with TV money.

A structure like that would probably put clubs like Killie, Ross County and St Johnstone, at least, out of business.

The bigger clubs would be severely restricted in the quality of player they could recruit so the standard of play would deteriorate and attendances would fall even further.

How would the league counter all that?

[Hibbyradge]

No! No! No! Never!

As a keen golfer, please define what we mean by Summer football.

The weather is Scotland over the 'summer' is often grim. Endless days of rain, often heavy rain.

The weather in March / April / May and September / October is often the most settled that we get.

The weather in November to February is colder, but it's amazing how many mild, dry, calm days we get. I've always maintained that there's been better days for playing golf in the winter than during the summer.

Add to that many people will be away on holiday from June through to August - either to tie in with school holidays or to avoid school holidays - and thus buying a season ticket would be a non-starter. The big loser is the football club deprived of season ticket income.

So for me, that's three less season tickets and I know there will be a lot of others in the same situation. Anyone purchasing season tickets due to summer football will be considerably outnumbered by those choosing not to purchase one.

On paper, it's a fine idea, but not workable unless you live in a country with harsh winters and a 'summer'.

I'm a very keen golfer too, but football game takes less than 2 hours and there are 6 other days a week to golf if you can't manage to arrange a game around the Hibs match.

[NAE NOOKIE]

For the first time I voted no in one of these polls. IMO our summers have been so wet recently I can see the pitches having a worse time than they do in the winter ... I remember an Intertoto cup tie a good few years back where it rained so heavily during the game a part of the pitch got badly damaged and it never recovered for the rest of the season, that was one game.

Another guy made a good point about season tickets as well ...... with school holidays and other summer activities getting in the way I can see why a lot of folk would be put off buying a season ticket covering a number of games they couldn't go to, the empty seats that should be occupied by existing ST holders at some of our early games is decent evidence of that.

I can still see the advantages as well though .... there's no doubt our teams would be better prepared for Europe and I could see more casual walk up fans who might usually be put off by the cold deciding to go along a bit more. There's also little doubt that having a good chunk of the season where we aren't in competition with English football could lead to better TV deals.

Of course, what Hibs should be doing is converting Easter Road to a fully enclosed stadium with a sliding roof and a good heating system ...... apart from making the football a lot more comfortable it would also give Edinburgh a 20,000 capacity indoor venue for concerts and the like, which is something it badly needs ... it would make us a fortune :greengrin

[gogs_t]

Definite no from me.

Far too many other things happen over the summer months and while I would do my best to work them round games, it would be difficult not to miss a few games and/or miss the other activities. As others have said, I seriously think it would have a major impact on season ticket sales. I've had a ST for as long as I can remember even though I know I'm going to miss at least a couple of games. The extra games I would miss would make me seriously consider getting one.
Apart from that, some of the winter months can be bleak enough without a match to look forward to and I actually enjoy watching a game in January more than watching one in July.

While some seem to embrace the notion, I honestly believe it would be massively detrimental to the future of the Scottish game.

[MyJo]

Clubs would face a loss of 21% plus income from home games, and advertising and sponsorship revenue would also reduce along with TV money.

A structure like that would probably put clubs like Killie, Ross County and St Johnstone, at least, out of business.

The bigger clubs would be severely restricted in the quality of player they could recruit so the standard of play would deteriorate and attendances would fall even further.

How would the league counter all that?

There probably will be a loss of income from less games but along with the reduction in revenue there will be an overall reduction in costs that will soften the blow.

While clubs will lose out on income they also won't have to pay the associated costs of staging these matches including, policing, stewarding, staff costs etc. Having a complete shutdown during the winter for 3 months will also allow smaller clubs to save a lot of money on stadium running costs with electricity/gas and undersoil heating etc while the players will still earn basic wages but won't be forking out on bonuses, appearance money etc during those 3 months either whereas just now there is really only 6 or 7 weeks where the players are "inactive".

The quality of players we recruit into scotland would be unlikely to change much but could potential benefit from a summer league, different transfer windows could allow us to get some players in February for example without competition from english teams. Players might love the idea of not having to train and play over xmas and new year like they do just now?

Advertising, sponsorship and TV revenue is determined by the quality of the product and the level of exposure. Right now the scottish leagues have absolutely nothing unique or different about them other than the old firm we are seen as a poor relation of english football, even our leagues are copying the engligh leagues with thier names etc.
Make Scottish football stand out, do things differently, give us a unique selling point and increase the exposure of the league and these revenue streams don't have to decrease, quite the opposite in fact.
The Betfred cup is a good example of this, a bit of a different structure, some experimental rules, competitive matches at a time when there is little else on and suddenly it has a decent sponsor, more matches are being televised and the prize money is higher for this competition than it is for the scottish cup.

[HappyAsHellas]

We can't have a league where no games are played in winter conditions. On top of that sadly, the main thing in the game now is tv money. World cup and Euros would see a blanket ban on games every 2nd season which would make our laughable tv deal worth less than it is now. What do people want to do during weekends in winter? Go shopping or something? As the advert says baws to that.

[MichaelTheCelt]

Voted yes but there is a fair argument from the no side too. One thing I don't think can be disputed is it might give our teams better preparation for Europe.

[HappyAsHellas]

How many more games had the giants from Luxembourg played before disposing of der hun? I think too much is made of this as it doesn't seem to be much of an issue down south where they typically start a week or so after us.

[IGRIGI]

Would've said yes before but now it's a no from me, weather is a hit and a miss during the summer months and I wouldn't like to see the club take a financial hit during the typical holiday period.

[Haymaker]

Voted yes but there is a fair argument from the no side too. One thing I don't think can be disputed is it might give our teams better preparation for Europe.

It would give them better preparation...

... BUT what happens when we start getting knocked out because we're knackered by November? Or if we get through and have to start games in February?!

[ancient hibee]

Season Ticket sales would go down the Swanee.

As someone said the Luxembourg minnows were at the same stage as Rangers.Should Scottish clubs progress in Europe they would have to play games in our close season.Not for me.

[jgl07]

Absolutely crap idea. I am amazed that Doncaster and Regan haven't already implemented it.

The only Leagues to do so as far as I can see are Ireland, Sweden, Iceland and Norway. Even Russia dumped the idea.

[Keith_M]

I used to be in favour but I think it might adversely affect the attendance at games, with so many people having holidays at that time, so I'm not sure.

I can see the possible advantage when playing some european teams but, tbh, Scottish clubs get humped out of Europe just as often by teams that play in the winter as well.

[jacomo]

Clubs would face a loss of 21% plus income from home games, and advertising and sponsorship revenue would also reduce along with TV money.

A structure like that would probably put clubs like Killie, Ross County and St Johnstone, at least, out of business.

The bigger clubs would be severely restricted in the quality of player they could recruit so the standard of play would deteriorate and attendances would fall even further.

How would the league counter all that?


Only if you assume all else remains the same.

What if a 16 team league proved more interesting and competitive, driving up attendance?

What if this led to higher viewing figures and more interest from sponsors?

What if other games were arranged to make up for the shorter league campaign?

[judas]

It's a no from me. Always has been.

Restructure the league. 16 teams - 30 games and keep the split totalling 37 games.

Reallign the calendar to July - April thus pre season starts in June (or late may) for those involved in European football meaning they get 4/5 weeks training before any games.

Bingo

Yes. This is the best solution. :agree:

[Hibbyradge]

It's a no from me. Always has been.

Restructure the league. 16 teams - 30 games and keep the split totalling 37 games.

Reallign the calendar to July - April thus pre season starts in June (or late may) for those involved in European football meaning they get 4/5 weeks training before any games.

Bingo

16 plus split couldn't work.

After the split, teams would play each other once.

Some teams would have to play more games away than home.

Some more home than away.

What if a club had to play 2 away games against both Celtic and Rangers and only 1 at home?

Or 2 home against each and only 1 away?

Would the teams competing for the title be happy to play their opponent away more than at home?

Etc etc etc.

[Sir David Gray]

Season Ticket sales would go down the Swanee.

As someone said the Luxembourg minnows were at the same stage as Rangers.Should Scottish clubs progress in Europe they would have to play games in our close season.Not for me.

I see what you did there! :greengrin

[LaMotta]

lots of people voted yes but not one person providing a good reason as to why it should be done. No surprise as ive never heard a coherent argument backing up summer football.

[pacorosssco]

Would you support a move to summer football in Scotland?

In addition to voting in the the poll, what are the reasons behind your preference?

Bigger league with home away only fixtures start league june and winter break. Kinda like dutch league

[ballengeich]

During winter football, and anticipating games, is one of the things which brightens the long dreary days. In particular it stops children moping round the house on Saturday afternoons. In summer families have lots of outdoor things to do so would be less inclined to attend.

[pacorosssco]

During winter football, and anticipating games, is one of the things which brightens the long dreary days. In particular it stops children moping round the house on Saturday afternoons. In summer families have lots of outdoor things to do so would be less inclined to attend.

Break after new year and also many skint then so glad of less costs?

[Forza Fred]

As someone who has already lived through a switch from winter to summer football.....I can
promise the world won't change substantially as a result.

I'd much rather expose my self to the elements in cauld weather rather than freezing weather though.

[Forza Fred]

Absolutely crap idea. I am amazed that Doncaster and Regan haven't already implemented it.

The only Leagues to do so as far as I can see are Ireland, Sweden, Iceland and Norway. Even Russia dumped the idea.

Australia did, years ago.

[pacorosssco]

As someone who has already lived through a switch from winter to summer football.....I can
promise the world won't change substantially as a result.

I'd much rather expose my self to the elements in cauld weather rather than freezing weather though.

Are talking Auz? If so is there that much a diff summer to winter? Huge difference overall here especially teams further north but rain likely still a problem winter or summer. Was it done for other reason? TV for example? Just curious. Games played at night due to heat?

[heretoday]

I need the summer to get over the stresses of the season.

[Forza Fred]

Are talking Auz? If so is there that much a diff summer to winter? Huge difference overall here especially teams further north but rain likely still a problem winter or summer. Was it done for other reason? TV for example? Just curious. Games played at night due to heat?

Yep there is a difference winter to summer, but winters are certainly kinder here...mind you I don't think you would have had the Mercury hit the extreme of 45 degrees as we did one day last summer!

Originally it was changed for media exposure...not tv though as they hardly covered it....but the rugby league and AFL seasons provided competition.

All sorts of positives....better pitches, better weather for spectators, and yes, the majority of games are played under floodlights.

I would say that it would never be contemplated moving it back to winter.

[frazeHFC]

Absolutely not. Summer should be cancelled in Scotland, a week in May maybe, unreal amount of rain this 'summer'.

With other activities and holidays I can only see crowds falling massively. Look at Stevenson's testimonial for example. A lot of families I know missed it because they (inc mine) were on holiday as the schools were off.

[PeeJay]

No - Scottish football's problems have nothing to do with the weather ....

[Phil MaGlass]

summer fitba would give us a longer window tae wear oor Hibs tops:greengrin.
Definitely summer fitba for me.

[theonlywayisup]

summer fitba would give us a longer window tae wear oor Hibs tops:greengrin.
Definitely summer fitba for me.

That's probably the best reason yet put forward by the "yes" campaigners :greengrin

[theonlywayisup]

I'm a very keen golfer too, but football game takes less than 2 hours and there are 6 other days a week to golf if you can't manage to arrange a game around the Hibs match.

Maybe you should read my post again - it was about the weather not about golf. I could equally have said "As someone who likes to get out a lot......."

Anyway, regarding your "six other days" comment - the majority of competitions are on a Saturday as are the majority of football matches.

[bigwheel]

I'd go to less football if it was a summer sport...I like the summer off ....do different things, travel...makes me look forward to it again when the season comes around...there are hardly any Hibs matches postponed due to weather..and I don't believe the crowds would be any better during holiday periods...so why summer football is considered better, I don't really know


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[jacomo]

No.

Football is close to being a year round schedule now anyhow, so really summer football means scheduling League games in May and June when spectators want to do other things.

[jgl07]

At the moment the season runs from early July till the end of May. Transpose that to the summer and it would run from February to early December. Is that summer football. Then there is a World Cupeveryfour years and a European Championship also every four years. So half the time six weeks in the middle of the season would be written off.

Stupid idea put forward by those who haven't thought things through. It isn't going to happen even with the current clowns in post.

[theonlywayisup]

It's amazing that the large majority of people posting on this thread are against summer football, yet a slight majoity have voted for it.

Can those who have voted for it please explain why?

:I'm waiti

The best response so far has been that you can wear your football strip in the summer.:faf:

[LaMotta]

It's amazing that the large majority of people posting on this thread are against summer football, yet a slight majoity have voted for it.

Can those who have voted for it please explain why?

:I'm waiti

The best response so far has been that you can wear your football strip in the summer.:faf:

As Brexit proved, people will often vote for things that make very little sense :wink:

[lord bunberry]

I used to be in favour of summer football, but with the season lasting so long these days it just isn't practical. Also playing during the school summer holidays would mean missing games due to holidays.

[mayo hibee]

It's amazing that the large majority of people posting on this thread are against summer football, yet a slight majoity have voted for it.

Can those who have voted for it please explain why?

:I'm waiti

The best response so far has been that you can wear your football strip in the summer.:faf:

OK, I'll bite. You probably won't like it and this post will no doubt get shot down by most of the previous posters, but anyway...

Most regulars on this forum are season ticket holders and die hard supporters. Go to all the games and have done for years. Exactly the group of people who would be most affected by a change to summer football. All the negatives are ones that would hit regular supporters the most - losing new year derby games, nothing to do in January and February if there are no games on etc.

The advantages are harder to see when you're faced with those negatives, and the concerns raised on the thread are reasonable. But here are a few of the likely positives for a bit of balance:

Improved TV deal: Sky and BT Sports are desperate to keep subscribers during the summer, but there's no decent football on so they're left with golf, F1, cricket and rugby league, which far fewer people want to watch. They'd be likely to pay far more for Scottish football than they do at the moment if they could show it during the summer, rather than in the winter as an add on to their English football coverage, which is all that Scottish football really is at the moment. Maybe a TV deal could be reached to rival the Championship TV deal in England? With a bit of clever scheduling you could arrange the fixtures so that there's one big game like an Old Firm or Edinburgh derby, or a game involving one of those teams and Aberdeen every weekend during late May, June and July. Scottish football could get the Super Sunday type coverage it deserves instead of being hidden away on a Friday night or lunchtime kickoff. Having cup finals in October or November when there's only regular league games from other countries on TV would also be a selling point. The extra TV cash would likely outweigh any reduction in season ticket sales, and to be honest I don't think the drop off in ST sales would be as much as is suggested anyway. So you miss one game because you're away on holidays for two weeks? Probably not enough reason to chuck your season ticket.

More cash to pay players/better standard of players: With the extra TV cash clubs might actually be able to pay their players a competitive wage and the likes of Mark Warburton wouldn't be able to raid Scottish teams for the likes of Jason Cummings to warm the bench in the English lower leagues as easily as they seem to be able to at the moment. It might actually take proper bids from EPL teams in order to tempt players away from the league. The exposure of playing in Scotland in the summer when there is no other football on would also probably tempt a better standard of player to the league.

European football: It's 10 years since a Scottish team other than Celtic made the group stages of a European competition. That's just embarrassing if we're honest about it. To put it into context, two League of Ireland clubs have played in the group states of the Europa League in that time. The League of Ireland is a useless league, unloved by the sporting public there, but Shamrock Rovers and Dundalk have still managed to reach the EL group stages mainly because the league plays during the summer. Dundalk even did quite well in the group stages when they got there (despite being managed by Stephen Kenny). There's no doubt Scottish clubs would achieve better results if they were playing European qualification games in mid season rather then pre-season. Someone asked what would happen if the domestic season ended before a team's European run did. If that actually happened it would be major progress for Scottish football. And who wouldn't love to see a few big European nights back at Easter Road again? Completely achievable, but not under the current structure.

So basically the likely positives are that Scottish football would develop, achieve a little bit of European success, more cash would be put into the game and it would get a lot more exposure. It would feel less like a little brother of the English league, which is exactly what it feels like right now with the Championship, League 1, League 2 etc. structure.

The main negatives are that life long supporters would be put out by not having games to go to during the winter and might miss a game or two in a season due to being away on summer holidays.

My view is that Scottish football as it stands is a shambles. One team is dominating domestically while getting absolutely destroyed whenever they play anyone of a decent standard in Europe. The national team are on the verge of completing a 20 year run of spectacular failure. Switching to summer football is unlikely to be a silver bullet that suddenly fixes all the problems with the game here. But it might fix some of them and, if we're honest, the current approach of copying everything the English league does but doing it worse obviously isn't working. So maybe summer football is at least worthy of a bit of consideration?

In reality it has no chance of happening anyway under the current regime - a governing body who just want to brush everything negative under the carpet and pretend all is fine with the game here will never consider something as out of the box as summer football. So you can all rest easy, Neil and his pals have your back. :wink:

[LaMotta]

Well done for stepping forward, and you may have a point about improved European results (although im not convinced).

The improved TV deal argument though is surely just fantasy. Very few outside of Scotland care about our league.

If viewers were really desperate for football 12 months of the year why do we not all crowd round the telly for League of Ireland matches in June? The league has TV deals with Irish broadcasters only because the rest of the world couldnt care less about their games no matter when they are played.

And in World cup/ Euros year The Spfl would be under an even bigger shadow than the one the EPL currently casts. What will people be watching? Aberdeen vs Motherwell or Argentina vs Spain?

I think we'd probably end up with a worse TV deal. Combined with less people through the turnstiles = disaster for our game.

[leithsansiro]

The aspect of summer football that I'm definitely in favour of is kids playing when the weather, in theory, is better.

Children don't learn a great deal by standing on a freezing pitch with the rain slashing into their faces. Much better to play on reasonable pitches with a bit of sun on their backs.

[lucky]

Well done for stepping forward, and you may have a point about improved European results (although im not convinced).

The improved TV deal argument though is surely just fantasy. Very few outside of Scotland care about our league.

If viewers were really desperate for football 12 months of the year why do we not all crowd round the telly for League of Ireland matches in June? The league has TV deals with Irish broadcasters only because the rest of the world couldnt care less about their games no matter when they are played.

And in World cup/ Euros year The Spfl would be under an even bigger shadow than the one the EPL currently casts. What will people be watching? Aberdeen vs Motherwell or Argentina vs Spain?

I think we'd probably end up with a worse TV deal. Combined with less people through the turnstiles = disaster for our game.

Our game is suffering due to the TV deal that's in place in England. Our football is popular outside Scotland but our TV deal is crap. 102 countries take our game and it's time to do something different to promote our game out of the shadow of the EPL

[Craig_HFC]

I've never been able to understand why people think it's a good idea and I don't think I ever will.

[LaMotta]

Our game is suffering due to the TV deal that's in place in England. Our football is popular outside Scotland but our TV deal is crap. 102 countries take our game and it's time to do something different to promote our game out of the shadow of the EPL

Do you think competing with the Euros and World Cup would lead to a better TV deal?

Why are Sky and Bt not interested in the League of Ireland in the Summer?

[Billy Whizz]

Sitting in the sunshine at Dingwall yesterday, can’t beat it

[Danderhall Hibs]

Do you think competing with the Euros and World Cup would lead to a better TV deal?


FIFA have scheduled the Qatar World Cup to clash with everyone's Christmas night out in a few years so we wouldn't be competing that year. Maybe theatre work and all the tournaments will get shifted to winter, leaving the summer for us. :greengrin

[LaMotta]

FIFA have scheduled the Qatar World Cup to clash with everyone's Christmas night out in a few years so we wouldn't be competing that year. Maybe theatre work and all the tournaments will get shifted to winter, leaving the summer for us. :greengrin

:greengrin