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Billy Whizz
20-09-2017, 06:01 PM
Just realeased 1/2 year accounts. Turnover for 6 months is £90m. BBC reporter said Rangers approx turnover for 6 months is £16m

They gulf between Celtic and the rest of Scottish is enormous

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41340467

Thecat23
20-09-2017, 06:05 PM
Yet some keep wanting Celtic to do well in Europe. Sorry I don't care if it gives us a little extra they are pulling away from the rest it's embarrassing. No other team will win the Scottish Premier for at least the next 10/20 years including The Rangers.

But I think by then there will be an Atlantic League or another league where they won't be here. I can't wait until that happens because no one will get close.

Smartie
20-09-2017, 06:07 PM
Some mental figures in there.

Revenue increase of 74.2%?

Operating expenses increased by 33.3%?

That one hell of a fluctuation as a result of Champions League Qualification.

How on Earth do you budget for that?

CropleyWasGod
20-09-2017, 06:11 PM
I'm a bit confused by that report.

The figures are for the first half of this year...to 30th June. They were out of Europe by Christmas, weren't they?

I'm not sure what the CL comments are about.
.

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Mick O'Rourke
20-09-2017, 06:12 PM
Just realeased 1/2 year accounts. Turnover for 6 months is £90m. BBC reporter said Rangers approx turnover for 6 months is £16m

They gulf between Celtic and the rest of Scottish is enormous.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41340467
We too are enormous, dont you know.
But not as "famous" as our not so noisy neighbours across the city.

11 against 11
We will have Stokes on Fire for that upcoming game against the east side of Glasgow club who sought to destroy Edinburgh Hibernian when Glasgow businessmen betrayed Brother Wilfred and his mission.

Dont ever let them forget that.

They cannot even spell the name of our club correctly !!

Remember that banner they flaunted at the Holy Ground?

Keep The Faith
Glory Glory

Pee S

exscuse any speeling erroras i maid in this poste !!

Jim44
20-09-2017, 06:16 PM
Just realeased 1/2 year accounts. Turnover for 6 months is £90m. BBC reporter said Rangers approx turnover for 6 months is £16m

They gulf between Celtic and the rest of Scottish is enormous

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41340467

Rodgers, complaining and bleeting about the unfairness of having to compete with all those rich clubs in Europe, said that the relative unfairness of their income domestically was irrelevant. Patronising idiot. I hope PSG take ten goals off them in Paris.

Billy Whizz
20-09-2017, 06:17 PM
I'm a bit confused by that report.

The figures are for the first half of this year...to 30th June. They were out of Europe by Christmas, weren't they?

I'm not sure what the CL comments are about.
.

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Some more detail on their official site

Financial Highlights
- Group revenue increased by 74.2% to £90.6m
- Operating expenses increased by 33.3% to £76.3m
- Gain on sale of player registrations of £2.3m (2016: £12.6m)
- Profit before taxation of £6.9m (2016: £0.5m)
- Year-end cash net of bank borrowings of £17.9m (2016: £3.6m)
- Investment in football personnel of £13.8m (2016: £8.8m)

CHAIRMAN’S STATEMENT
These results, which declare sales revenue of £90.6m (2016: £52.0m) and a profit before taxation of £6.9m (2016: £0.5m), reflect the paramount importance to the Company of participation in the group stages of the UEFA Champions League.

CropleyWasGod
20-09-2017, 06:20 PM
Some more detail on their official site

Financial Highlights
- Group revenue increased by 74.2% to £90.6m
- Operating expenses increased by 33.3% to £76.3m
- Gain on sale of player registrations of £2.3m (2016: £12.6m)
- Profit before taxation of £6.9m (2016: £0.5m)
- Year-end cash net of bank borrowings of £17.9m (2016: £3.6m)
- Investment in football personnel of £13.8m (2016: £8.8m)

CHAIRMAN’S STATEMENT
These results, which declare sales revenue of £90.6m (2016: £52.0m) and a profit before taxation of £6.9m (2016: £0.5m), reflect the paramount importance to the Company of participation in the group stages of the UEFA Champions League.

The accounts are for the full year, which makes more sense.

More fool me for believing the BBC [emoji38]

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Stuart93
20-09-2017, 06:22 PM
For all of the money they've made only £6.9m of that is pre tax profit. Where does all the money go?

seanshow
20-09-2017, 06:23 PM
They are so far in front, it has no relevance to me as a Hibs supporter we havn't won the league for 65 years and this is not going to change anything.
It may become a test of the loyalty for the sevconian hoardes over the next 10 years.

Billy Whizz
20-09-2017, 06:24 PM
Remind me what our t/o is per annum

Nicho87
20-09-2017, 06:26 PM
Rodgers moaning about the financial gulf between them and the rest of the biggest clubs in Europe meant I lost all respect for him. Decent manager yes. Total arrogant arse. Also yes. Hope they get pumped out.

Joe6-2
20-09-2017, 06:51 PM
Rodgers moaning about the financial gulf between them and the rest of the biggest clubs in Europe meant I lost all respect for him. Decent manager yes. Total arrogant arse. Also yes. Hope they get pumped out.

Twat!

jacomo
20-09-2017, 06:53 PM
Uncatchable. For the foreseeable future at least.

Best we can hope for is that some of this wealth is spread around by Celtc paying over the odds when they sign players from other Scottish teams.

NAE NOOKIE
20-09-2017, 06:58 PM
They are so far in front, it has no relevance to me as a Hibs supporter we havn't won the league for 65 years and this is not going to change anything.
It may become a test of the loyalty for the sevconian hoardes over the next 10 years.

This is how I look at it as well, their resources are so vast compared to everybody else losing to them is no longer a cause for any disappointment, annoyance, anger or any other negative emotion which would normally accompany Hibs losing to another Scottish club ..... they could put two teams on the park capable of winning the Premiership. From my point of view any game against them is a free hit, if we get anything brilliant, if we don't its ho hum who cares, onto the next game.

I just don't get where the joy is in being a Celtic supporter .... If they were building teams from the ground up and winning stuff on a level playing field fine, or even if it was a case of having a large windfall that put them out in front for a few years. But this seems to me like a never ending 'Groundhog day' where nothing will ever change, win after win, league after league, cup after cup with no competition to speak of ..... don't tell me that eventually that wouldn't bore the tits off you :dunno:

Nicho87
20-09-2017, 07:03 PM
Twat!

I hope ye mean Brendan lol

WhileTheChief..
20-09-2017, 07:06 PM
They've got to get to 55 or whatever.

OxoHibby
20-09-2017, 07:52 PM
This is how I look at it as well, their resources are so vast compared to everybody else losing to them is no longer a cause for any disappointment, annoyance, anger or any other negative emotion which would normally accompany Hibs losing to another Scottish club ..... they could put two teams on the park capable of winning the Premiership. From my point of view any game against them is a free hit, if we get anything brilliant, if we don't its ho hum who cares, onto the next game.

I just don't get where the joy is in being a Celtic supporter .... If they were building teams from the ground up and winning stuff on a level playing field fine, or even if it was a case of having a large windfall that put them out in front for a few years. But this seems to me like a never ending 'Groundhog day' where nothing will ever change, win after win, league after league, cup after cup with no competition to speak of ..... don't tell me that eventually that wouldn't bore the tits off you :dunno:

But this is their point about the gulf between then and the other leagues in the cl. I found their result against psg quite sad. Not that I like celtic in any way but if they can't compete in the cl what chance do hibs have. It's not even like psg are a big European club. Financial doping wins

weecounty hibby
20-09-2017, 07:54 PM
Remember when our jambo chums told us we were no longer their rivals but Celtic were? Bunch of fuds. No one in Scotland is even close to celtic anymore, not even the hun

green day
20-09-2017, 08:00 PM
Must be a bit dull being a tic fan right now. This match is dull as ****.

Eyrie
20-09-2017, 08:12 PM
Must be a bit dull being a tic fan right now. This match is dull as ****.

Must be dull being a Celtc fan at any time.

Given the comparative resources and players, their fans must expect to win every domestic game, so there's no thrill if they do and only disappointment if they don't.

Bishop Hibee
20-09-2017, 08:16 PM
Must be dull being a Celtc fan at any time.

Given the comparative resources and players, their fans must expect to win every domestic game, so there's no thrill if they do and only disappointment if they don't.

All about 10 in a row and Europe. That's why I loved them getting pumped by PSG.

ajf
21-09-2017, 02:29 AM
I can picture a scenario where teams are playing their 2nd team against Celtic because they have a big game against their rivals 3 or 4 days later , imagine being a Celtic fan then , total lack of interest and competition .

Colr
21-09-2017, 05:29 AM
Just realeased 1/2 year accounts. Turnover for 6 months is £90m. BBC reporter said Rangers approx turnover for 6 months is £16m

They gulf between Celtic and the rest of Scottish is enormous

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41340467

Remember thats turnover not profit. The gulf will be much larger once costs are taken into account.

Hibernia&Alba
21-09-2017, 05:40 AM
For all of the money they've made only £6.9m of that is pre tax profit. Where does all the money go?

Their wage bill will be huge; then there's transfer fees and operating costs.

£90 million turnover is enormous compared to the rest of Scottish football, but isn't comparable to the biggest teams in Europe. Man United and Real Madrid have a turnover of over £500 million.

calumhibee1
21-09-2017, 08:09 AM
What’s our turnover in comparison?

Iain G
21-09-2017, 08:25 AM
Just realeased 1/2 year accounts. Turnover for 6 months is £90m. BBC reporter said Rangers approx turnover for 6 months is £16m

They gulf between Celtic and the rest of Scottish is enormous

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41340467

That's a lot of pastries in 6 months...

Gettin' Auld
21-09-2017, 08:32 AM
What’s our turnover in comparison?

Wasn't it £6 million+ last time? Somewhere between £6M and £7M if i remember correctly.

calumhibee1
21-09-2017, 08:39 AM
Wasn't it £6 million+ last time? Somewhere between £6M and £7M if i remember correctly.

That’s the kind of region I had in my head. So the gulf between us and Celtic is about 15x. I’d hazard a guess the difference between half the league and Celtic is about 30x. The difference between Celtic and Real Madrid is about 6x. And Rodgers wants to tell people that the two are incomparable? He’s probably right, but not for the reasons he thinks he is.

CorrieHibs
21-09-2017, 08:42 AM
Must be a bit dull being a tic fan right now. This match is dull as ****.

But still we get plenty glory hunters from Edinburgh and Lothian's going through to support them. Even worse is folk wearing their shirts from here and never been to a match.

Hibbyradge
21-09-2017, 08:47 AM
Yet some keep wanting Celtic to do well in Europe. Sorry I don't care if it gives us a little extra they are pulling away from the rest it's embarrassing. No other team will win the Scottish Premier for at least the next 10/20 years including The Rangers.

But I think by then there will be an Atlantic League or another league where they won't be here. I can't wait until that happens because no one will get close.

I know why you say that, but Celtic failing in Europe will not improve the standard of our league, and, if anything, would be/is even more embarrassing.

jacomo
21-09-2017, 08:55 AM
I know why you say that, but Celtic failing in Europe will not improve the standard of our league, and, if anything, would be/is even more embarrassing.


:agree:

One way Scottish football needs to improve is by better results in UEFA competitions.

Like it or not that means backing our club representatives in those competitions.

I hope Hibs will be regular competitors in Europe soon, and I hope our domestic rivals will also see the bigger picture.

CropleyWasGod
21-09-2017, 09:10 AM
That's a lot of pastries in 6 months...12 months [emoji13]

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Michael
21-09-2017, 09:12 AM
I know why you say that, but Celtic failing in Europe will not improve the standard of our league, and, if anything, would be/is even more embarrassing.

What's embarrassing about it? Not enough mercenaries?

Hibbyradge
21-09-2017, 09:25 AM
What's embarrassing about it? Not enough mercenaries?

Try to work it out yourself.

LNHibs
21-09-2017, 09:32 AM
Yet some keep wanting Celtic to do well in Europe. Sorry I don't care if it gives us a little extra they are pulling away from the rest it's embarrassing. No other team will win the Scottish Premier for at least the next 10/20 years including The Rangers.

But I think by then there will be an Atlantic League or another league where they won't be here. I can't wait until that happens because no one will get close.

disagree with this. I like to see them do well as our teams generally get put out very early on which is meaning our coefficents are dropping massively if Celtic fail. IF our teams start doing better in europe generally then id be a little more happy to see them struggle

Newry Hibs
21-09-2017, 09:47 AM
This is how I look at it as well, their resources are so vast compared to everybody else losing to them is no longer a cause for any disappointment, annoyance, anger or any other negative emotion which would normally accompany Hibs losing to another Scottish club ..... they could put two teams on the park capable of winning the Premiership. From my point of view any game against them is a free hit, if we get anything brilliant, if we don't its ho hum who cares, onto the next game.

I just don't get where the joy is in being a Celtic supporter .... If they were building teams from the ground up and winning stuff on a level playing field fine, or even if it was a case of having a large windfall that put them out in front for a few years. But this seems to me like a never ending 'Groundhog day' where nothing will ever change, win after win, league after league, cup after cup with no competition to speak of ..... don't tell me that eventually that wouldn't bore the tits off you :dunno:

Agree. They just won't have a feeling like May 2016.

NAE NOOKIE
21-09-2017, 09:58 AM
But this is their point about the gulf between then and the other leagues in the cl. I found their result against psg quite sad. Not that I like celtic in any way but if they can't compete in the cl what chance do hibs have. It's not even like psg are a big European club. Financial doping wins

If you are talking about Hibs ever competing in the 'so called' champions league there is no chance we ever will, but that applies to 90% or more of all clubs in Europe. In fact the only way the champions league is surviving is because of financial doping, where a handful of bang average clubs supported by insane outside money like PSG, Chelsea and Man City can be considered a challenge and therefor its not yet been accepted that the whole thing is what it is, a non competitive borefest.

The current theory is that eventually there will be a European league .... but unless UEFA come up with an NFL type system where all clubs are forced to adopt the same budget at the start of the season it will fail. How long will fans of Bayern Munich, Ajax or Celtic settle for being also rans in a league dominated by Real Madrid, PSG, Barcelona and Man City?

Then there is the cultural aspect of the game as well ....... I cant see a fan of Celtic dropping his hatred of The Rangers and transferring that fierce rivalry to an intense dislike of Borussia Dortmund, or a Dortmund fan leaving behind the intense rivalry with Shalke and transferring it to Ajax. Local or regional rivalry is a big deal in football and I cant see that successfully transferring to a European league.

JimboHibs
21-09-2017, 10:28 AM
Agree. They just won't have a feeling like May 2016.

Ridiculous.

Michael
21-09-2017, 10:47 AM
Try to work it out yourself.

The only embarrassing aspect is how the SFA/SPFL handle off field issues. The football itself is fine.

calumhibee1
21-09-2017, 10:52 AM
Ridiculous.

How is that ridiculous? :confused: Celtic will NEVER have a feeling like we did when we won the Scottish Cup. I would suggest that even winning the Champions League wouldn't get close to giving them the same feeling.

NAE NOOKIE
21-09-2017, 10:59 AM
Ridiculous.

You must be :fishin: mate.

Like most folk on here I was at the 2001 and 2013 cup finals and what was striking after both games was watching the Celtic fans from my seat on the bus as we drove out of Glasgow .... you got no sense from them that they had just won the national cup competition, they were trudging along as if they had just beaten Hamilton 5 - 0 at Celtic park.

When they went ahead against Aberdeen in this years cup final at exactly the same time as we did against The Rangers do you think any of their fans did what I did in 2016 and shut my eyes and covered my ears for the next two minutes praying we could hold out until full time? and I bet I wasn't the only one.

I'm sure Celtic fans have had their moments, but a moment that replicated what we experienced on 21/05.2016 ..... nah, at least not since 1967

CropleyWasGod
21-09-2017, 11:23 AM
What’s our turnover in comparison?

£7m for the 11 months ended June 16.

Billy Whizz
21-09-2017, 11:39 AM
Remember thats turnover not profit. The gulf will be much larger once costs are taken into account.

I know it’s only turnover, but £90millon in 6 months is impressive

Crazyhorse
21-09-2017, 11:40 AM
If you are talking about Hibs ever competing in the 'so called' champions league there is no chance we ever will, but that applies to 90% or more of all clubs in Europe. In fact the only way the champions league is surviving is because of financial doping, where a handful of bang average clubs supported by insane outside money like PSG, Chelsea and Man City can be considered a challenge and therefor its not yet been accepted that the whole thing is what it is, a non competitive borefest.

The current theory is that eventually there will be a European league .... but unless UEFA come up with an NFL type system where all clubs are forced to adopt the same budget at the start of the season it will fail. How long will fans of Bayern Munich, Ajax or Celtic settle for being also rans in a league dominated by Real Madrid, PSG, Barcelona and Man City?

Then there is the cultural aspect of the game as well ....... I cant see a fan of Celtic dropping his hatred of The Rangers and transferring that fierce rivalry to an intense dislike of Borussia Dortmund, or a Dortmund fan leaving behind the intense rivalry with Shalke and transferring it to Ajax. Local or regional rivalry is a big deal in football and I cant see that successfully transferring to a European league.


The fans don't really matter in this context. The Champions League and the EPL for that matter are sustained by attracting customers from around the world who are consumers of merchandise and advertising connected with these brands. I spend a lot of time in Tunisia and have noted with interest over the past 5-7 years the dramatic growth of Chelsea, Man U, Man C etc tops and interest in the EPL. The main Spanish (RM/Barca) and Italian (esp. Juve) brands are still big sellers and maybe Marseille/PSG to a lesser extent but the growth of the English 'products' recently has been huge.
I think for the purposes of those who are flogging football globally the 'club culture' is only useful if it can be turned into something they can sell.

In Scotland the relentless promotion of a two club model by the authorities and media has spectacularly backfired. Hence the collapse of one of these clubs is seen as 'the problem' for Scottish football and the solution will be framed in terms of 'how do get "Rangers" back up there competing with Celtic'.

If the problem for Scottish had been framed as how do we ensure a thriving football culture that shares success around then perhaps some quite radical solutions would have been developed - proper wage caps etc. But that ship has sailed a long time ago.

As for Celtic they were happy to promote the two club hegemony and they will be happy now there is only one club. For me it wouldn't have mattered if they had gone down the tubes and Rangers were now the masters. They are both equally toxic institutions and I want them both to lose every game - usually even when they play Hearts.

CropleyWasGod
21-09-2017, 11:54 AM
I know it’s only turnover, but £90millon in 6 months is impressive

It's 12 months. :greengrin

Hibbyradge
21-09-2017, 12:58 PM
The only embarrassing aspect is how the SFA/SPFL handle off field issues. The football itself is fine.

Hmm.

Scottish clubs getting papped out of Europe by previously unheard of minnows at the qualification stages, year in, year out, doesn't suggest the football is anywhere close to being fine.

It's a total embarrassment.

Michael
21-09-2017, 01:19 PM
Hmm.

Scottish clubs getting papped out of Europe by previously unheard of minnows at the qualification stages, year in, year out, doesn't suggest the football is anywhere close to being fine.

It's a total embarrassment.

That's largely down to how Uefa structure their tournaments. We usually get knocked out by a minnow in the middle of their season just as our players are back from holiday.

There's loads of decent players in the Scottish Premiership. We've got a pretty decent squad and yet we're currently mid table which says a lot about the other sides.

Billy Whizz
21-09-2017, 01:37 PM
It's 12 months. :greengrin

Still impressed though😄

JimboHibs
21-09-2017, 02:09 PM
You must be :fishin: mate.

Like most folk on here I was at the 2001 and 2013 cup finals and what was striking after both games was watching the Celtic fans from my seat on the bus as we drove out of Glasgow .... you got no sense from them that they had just won the national cup competition, they were trudging along as if they had just beaten Hamilton 5 - 0 at Celtic park.

When they went ahead against Aberdeen in this years cup final at exactly the same time as we did against The Rangers do you think any of their fans did what I did in 2016 and shut my eyes and covered my ears for the next two minutes praying we could hold out until full time? and I bet I wasn't the only one.

I'm sure Celtic fans have had their moments, but a moment that replicated what we experienced on 21/05.2016 ..... nah, at least not since 1967

Of course it's ridiculous,unless you support Celtic you'll never know what feeling their fans get you can only assume ?? because it was so emotional to us doesn't mean Celtic's achievements may feel any less emotional to them,it's like saying if you were a Ross County fan Celtic will never experience the feeling Ross County felt when they beat us in the League Cup,your only feeling it from our emotional attachment to winning it.

givescotlandfreedom
21-09-2017, 02:36 PM
All that money and they still screw everyone for a honking restricted view at Parkhead.

hibsbollah
21-09-2017, 02:54 PM
There was a good thing on the totally football podcast that James Richardson is doing at the moment. If you calculate PSGs average spend on player wage it's something like 8 times Celtics. (admittedly prior to the recent two huge signings). But Celtics spend is 15 times Ross County's who they were playing the following week, which shows they have **** all to complain about.

Hibernia&Alba
21-09-2017, 04:02 PM
Man United income for 2016-17 published today as £581.2 million. Celtc minnows :greengrin

ekhibee
21-09-2017, 04:22 PM
Regardless of whether fans of other clubs like them or not, Celtic are a well run club, thanks mainly to Fergus McCann who changed the way the club was run after years of mismanagement by people like the Kellys and the Whites. I've always been a Hibs fan and right now I'm more than happy with how my club is run, how Celtic are run is certainly not top of my list of priorities. But they're well run on and off the park.

hibsbollah
21-09-2017, 05:56 PM
I also just don't get Rodgers' argument. He seems to be saying you can't make a 'zero sum' comparison between Celtic-PSG gulf and a Celtic-Ross County gulf, because there is an exponential increase in quality the higher up the quality ladder you go.

Total rubbish of course. If anything it works the other way; if we say Lukaku is a 250k a week player, Scott Sinclair is a 25k a week player and Michael Gardyne a 2.5k a week player, I would say there's a bigger gulf between players like Gardyne and Sinclair than Sinclair and Lukaku. (I suppose some may disagree).

Eyrie
21-09-2017, 07:35 PM
Hmm.

Scottish clubs getting papped out of Europe by previously unheard of minnows at the qualification stages, year in, year out, doesn't suggest the football is anywhere close to being fine.

It's a total embarrassment.
I'm a Hibs fan, so don't get embarrassed when Celtc lose to Lincoln Red Imps, Sevco to Progres Niederkorn or Hearts to Birkirkara.


Of course it's ridiculous,unless you support Celtic you'll never know what feeling their fans get you can only assume ?? because it was so emotional to us doesn't mean Celtic's achievements may feel any less emotional to them,it's like saying if you were a Ross County fan Celtic will never experience the feeling Ross County felt when they beat us in the League Cup,your only feeling it from our emotional attachment to winning it.
Given how regularly Celtc win trophies, it's safe to say that they will never know the feeling that we had after 114 years of Scottish Cup misery or that Ross County had on winning their first ever major trophy. The closest they could come would be winning the modern Champions League.

mjhibby
21-09-2017, 08:33 PM
Regardless of whether fans of other clubs like them or not, Celtic are a well run club, thanks mainly to Fergus McCann who changed the way the club was run after years of mismanagement by people like the Kellys and the Whites. I've always been a Hibs fan and right now I'm more than happy with how my club is run, how Celtic are run is certainly not top of my list of priorities. But they're well run on and off the park.

That is certainly true. I think getting Rodgers in as manager has put them on a different level to everybody else and it will be interesting to see how they do when he eventually departs. Sevco are grossly underperforming for the resources they have and you just can't see how they can challenge celtic unless they get a benefactor who delivers on promises unlike the present charlatan. The dons have punched above their weight for years but I fancy this will end soon and Mcinnes will depart. They are focused on the new stadium and it would be some feat to be second again. I think we are still a work in progress and anywhere between 4th and 6 th is our likely finish. Hertz I'm sure will do better under Potter but after a good start will fade due to them having a relatively poor squad.
As a hibs fan our club is the strongest it's been since the turn of the century but we must be honest that the spl is the weakest I can remember for a very long time and I would not hazard a guess how many titles in a row they will win not that bothers me as I'm only concerned with hfc.

Hibbyradge
21-09-2017, 10:02 PM
I'm a Hibs fan, so don't get embarrassed when Celtc lose to Lincoln Red Imps, Sevco to Progres Niederkorn or Hearts to Birkirkara.



I'm sure there were many fans of other teams who revelled in our 9-0 aggregate defeat to Malmo.

A team called Trakai knocked St. Johnstone out this season and the mighty Apollonian Limassol took care of Scotland's second team, Aberdeen.

Nothing to be concerned or embarrassed about, though. :rolleyes:

Eyrie
21-09-2017, 10:15 PM
I'm sure there were many fans of other teams who revelled in our 9-0 aggregate defeat to Malmo.

A team called Trakai knocked St. Johnstone out this season and the mighty Apollonian Limassol took care of Scotland's second team, Aberdeen.

Nothing to be concerned or embarrassed about, though. :rolleyes:

The only one that concerns or embarrasses me of your three examples is the first one, because it was us that took a hammering. I don't support Aberdeen or St Johnstone, so their struggles are of little interest to me.

However from your reference to "mighty Apollonian Limassol" you clearly believe that Scottish clubs are "superior" to those from other countries, when the competitive results for a number of seasons are evidence that that has long since ceased to be the case.

Would it be nice if Scotland could again produce a standard of footballer that enables its clubs to win regularly in Europe? Of course, but I'm realistic enough to deal with the fact that we don't.

NAE NOOKIE
22-09-2017, 12:35 AM
Of course it's ridiculous,unless you support Celtic you'll never know what feeling their fans get you can only assume ?? because it was so emotional to us doesn't mean Celtic's achievements may feel any less emotional to them,it's like saying if you were a Ross County fan Celtic will never experience the feeling Ross County felt when they beat us in the League Cup,your only feeling it from our emotional attachment to winning it.

I thought I had given a reasonable barometer of the difference between the two with my recollection of the 2001 and 2013 cup finals ..... I remarked to my mate at the time in 2001 as we drove out of Glasgow about how surprised I was at the demeanour of the hundreds of Celtic fans we passed, there was no sign from them that anything exciting had actually happened.

In 2012 our bus was parked miles from the ground and we had to walk right round Hampden through the Celtic fans to get to it .... the atmosphere was the same, sure they didn't exactly look depressed, but there was no sense of euphoria, no sense that their club had actually achieved anything, in fact the only thing that was different from what I would consider a run of the mill game to them was the several patronising Celtic fans who said 'never mind wee man, maybe next year' to me when they saw my Hibs top.

So of course I'm making an assumption ..... but that assumption is based on what I've witnessed after two losing cup finals to Celtic, the difference between the demeanour and behaviour of their fans was night and day compared to ours on 21/05/2016, so I'm quite happy to stick by what I said.

Haymaker
22-09-2017, 03:37 AM
As far as I remember from 2013 the majority of celtc fans left after the final whistle and didn't bother to even applaud the team.

mjhibby
22-09-2017, 06:36 AM
That is certainly true. I think getting Rodgers in as manager has put them on a different level to everybody else and it will be interesting to see how they do when he eventually departs. Sevco are grossly underperforming for the resources they have and you just can't see how they can challenge celtic unless they get a benefactor who delivers on promises unlike the present charlatan. The dons have punched above their weight for years but I fancy this will end soon and Mcinnes will depart. They are focused on the new stadium and it would be some feat to be second again. I think we are still a work in progress and anywhere between 4th and 6 th is our likely finish. Hertz I'm sure will do better under Potter but after a good start will fade due to them having a relatively poor squad.
As a hibs fan our club is the strongest it's been since the turn of the century but we must be honest that the spl is the weakest I can remember for a very long time and I would not hazard a guess how many titles in a row they will win not that bothers me as I'm only concerned with hfc.

Aberdeens last three performances suggest they are unlikely to be a threat to anyone this season but I'm sure they will be battling for a place in Europe which sadly is the height of the ambition to all outside celtic and which invariably ends in humiliation and excuses about not starting the season early enough. I'd rather win a trophy and finish fifth than finish third and get humped by a team we've never heard of in Europe.

ano hibby
22-09-2017, 08:03 AM
So Man Utd revenue is £580m, Celtc £80m and us £7/8m.
Hmmm!!

MichaelTheCelt
22-09-2017, 09:01 AM
So Man Utd revenue is £580m, Celtc £80m and us £7/8m.
Hmmm!!
Genuine question, what needs to change in Scottish football for teams like Hibs, Aberdeen, Motherwell and so on to increase their revenue? Scottish football isn't glamorous, and sadly outside Scotland the only interest is the Old Firm games, but it's not like we don't have great historical teams up here. We could do a helluva lot more to promote our game I feel. The Edinburgh derby is a capital city game, two historic teams with a great rivalry, it should attract more viewership worldwide in my opinion.

CropleyWasGod
22-09-2017, 09:03 AM
Genuine question, what needs to change in Scottish football for teams like Hibs, Aberdeen, Motherwell and so on to increase their revenue? Scottish football isn't glamorous, and sadly outside Scotland the only interest is the Old Firm games, but it's not like we don't have great historical teams up here. We could do a helluva lot more to promote our game I feel. The Edinburgh derby is a capital city game, two historic teams with a great rivalry, it should attract more viewership worldwide in my opinion.

People to follow their local teams for one :greengrin

Hibbyradge
22-09-2017, 09:14 AM
The only one that concerns or embarrasses me of your three examples is the first one, because it was us that took a hammering. I don't support Aberdeen or St Johnstone, so their struggles are of little interest to me.

However from your reference to "mighty Apollonian Limassol" you clearly believe that Scottish clubs are "superior" to those from other countries, when the competitive results for a number of seasons are evidence that that has long since ceased to be the case.

Would it be nice if Scotland could again produce a standard of footballer that enables its clubs to win regularly in Europe? Of course, but I'm realistic enough to deal with the fact that we don't.

Surely" if it would be nice" if our clubs...could win regularly in Europe, it must "not be nice" that they don't?

But, I get it. You don't care that our country's national sport is of an appallingly poor standard.

You're also happy for that to be confirmed, year after year, by our teams being unable to progress past the first or second qualifying rounds of European tournaments.

Personally, I find it depressing that a club with Hibs' European history and pedigree struggles to compete in a league which proves itself to be of such a poor, and embarrassing, standard every 12 months.

Everyone to their own, I guess.

allezsauzee
22-09-2017, 09:16 AM
Genuine question, what needs to change in Scottish football for teams like Hibs, Aberdeen, Motherwell and so on to increase their revenue? Scottish football isn't glamorous, and sadly outside Scotland the only interest is the Old Firm games, but it's not like we don't have great historical teams up here. We could do a helluva lot more to promote our game I feel. The Edinburgh derby is a capital city game, two historic teams with a great rivalry, it should attract more viewership worldwide in my opinion.

The main difference is TV money. Hibs and Hearts have done very well in terms of getting fans back to watching the game but we didn't embrace sky in the same way that English football did. We are never going to get the same amount of money for viewing rights as the EPL but if we want to generate more revenue I think we need to look at what we can do to make this an attractive product for media companies. We need radical solutions, so perhaps looking beyond the traditional media and to the likes of Youtube and Facebook where the potential audiences are massive. I also think we should consider summer football, where there is so much less competition for media interest.

Phil MaGlass
22-09-2017, 09:17 AM
Surely" if it would be nice" if our clubs...could win regularly in Europe, it must "not be nice" that they don't?

But, I get it. You don't care that our country's national sport is of an appallingly poor standard.

You're also happy for that to be confirmed, year after year, by our teams being unable to progress past the first or second qualifying rounds of European tournaments.

Personally, I find it depressing that a club with Hibs' European history and pedigree struggles to compete in a league which proves itself to be of such a poor, and embarrassing, standard every 12 months.

Everyone to their own, I guess.

One of the problems i think iss the fact that even Scandinavian countries are having cash thrown at them by TV, we are not, they can attract and invest alot more into their grass roots football.

Hibbyradge
22-09-2017, 09:17 AM
Genuine question, what needs to change in Scottish football for teams like Hibs, Aberdeen, Motherwell and so on to increase their revenue? Scottish football isn't glamorous, and sadly outside Scotland the only interest is the Old Firm games, but it's not like we don't have great historical teams up here. We could do a helluva lot more to promote our game I feel. The Edinburgh derby is a capital city game, two historic teams with a great rivalry, it should attract more viewership worldwide in my opinion.

Sheffield Wednesday v Sheffield United, when it happens, is arguably an even bigger derby, but that doesn't even get watched in England.

MichaelTheCelt
22-09-2017, 09:21 AM
The main difference is TV money. Hibs and Hearts have done very well in terms of getting fans back to watching the game but we didn't embrace sky in the same way that English football did. We are never going to get the same amount of money for viewing rights as the EPL but if we want to generate more revenue I think we need to look at what we can do to make this an attractive product for media companies. We need radical solutions, so perhaps looking beyond the traditional media and to the likes of Youtube and Facebook where the potential audiences are massive. I also think we should consider summer football, where there is so much less competition for media interest.
That is a fantastic shout we could lead the way in that as a country, Scotland is an innovator no reason why we couldn't seriously look at that. I'd like to see us with our own channel too, that doesn't come with EPL football. Completely disassociate ourselves from English footy because we are an inferior product in comparison.

Summer football just makes so much sense, in fact all of what you said makes too much sense that's why the powers at the SFA would never go with it.

Bawbags!

Hibbyradge
22-09-2017, 09:23 AM
One of the problems i think iss the fact that even Scandinavian countries are having cash thrown at them by TV, we are not, they can attract and invest alot more into their grass roots football.

There are all sorts of reasons behind the state of the Scottish game.

The close proximity to England being a huge factor. The EPL is watched all over the globe.

Apart from Celtic, in particular, and Secco to a lesser extent, there is no global interest in our league.

Failing at the first European hurdle every year, exacerbates that situation.

calumhibee1
22-09-2017, 09:24 AM
The main difference is TV money. Hibs and Hearts have done very well in terms of getting fans back to watching the game but we didn't embrace sky in the same way that English football did. We are never going to get the same amount of money for viewing rights as the EPL but if we want to generate more revenue I think we need to look at what we can do to make this an attractive product for media companies. We need radical solutions, so perhaps looking beyond the traditional media and to the likes of Youtube and Facebook where the potential audiences are massive. I also think we should consider summer football, where there is so much less competition for media interest.

Broadcasting Scottish games live on Youtube is a very interesting idea. :agree:

MichaelTheCelt
22-09-2017, 09:24 AM
Sheffield Wednesday v Sheffield United, when it happens, is arguably an even bigger derby, but that doesn't even get watched in England.
I'd disagree with you there mate but that may be my bias showing. Capital city derby and the Dundee derby are bigger games to me than a lot of the derby games in England. Only United-Liverpool, Arsenal-Tottenham, Liverpool-Everton are bigger derbies in my opinion. But again that may be because I'm Scottish.

Hibbyradge
22-09-2017, 09:26 AM
That is a fantastic shout we could lead the way in that as a country, Scotland is an innovator no reason why we couldn't seriously look at that. I'd like to see us with our own channel too, that doesn't come with EPL football. Completely disassociate ourselves from English footy because we are an inferior product in comparison.

Summer football just makes so much sense, in fact all of what you said makes too much sense that's why the powers at the SFA would never go with it.

Bawbags!

The reason we can't lead the way on summer football are plentiful. They're called the fans. :wink:

Start a thread/poll to discuss the idea and you'll soon find out.

I'm all for it, by the way. (Summer football, that is, not the thread/poll :greengrin)

MichaelTheCelt
22-09-2017, 09:27 AM
Broadcasting Scottish games live on Youtube is a very interesting idea. :agree:
The ability to pick and choose the games you want to watch, so you pay a small fee for each game. Clubs might not want to go with that as they'd think fans wouldn't turn up in the stadium but my answer to that is make ticket prices reasonable. Complete restructuring top to bottom for Scottish football.

MichaelTheCelt
22-09-2017, 09:28 AM
The reason we can't lead the way on summer football are plentiful. They're called the fans. :wink:

Start a thread/poll to discuss the idea and you'll soon find out.

I'm all for it, by the way. (Summer football, that is, not the thread/poll :greengrin)
From what I've seen on Celtic forums is everyone is in favour of summer football, is there a divide on here like?

Hibbyradge
22-09-2017, 09:34 AM
I'd disagree with you there mate but that may be my bias showing. Capital city derby and the Dundee derby are bigger games to me than a lot of the derby games in England. Only United-Liverpool, Arsenal-Tottenham, Liverpool-Everton are bigger derbies in my opinion. But again that may be because I'm Scottish.

Yeah, the term "big" is subjective.

I picked those 2 clubs because their attendances are generally much higher than Hibs/hearts, but it was an example of how little interest there is in anything outside the EPL. There are many others.

stantonhibby
22-09-2017, 09:34 AM
Genuine question, what needs to change in Scottish football for teams like Hibs, Aberdeen, Motherwell and so on to increase their revenue? Scottish football isn't glamorous, and sadly outside Scotland the only interest is the Old Firm games, but it's not like we don't have great historical teams up here. We could do a helluva lot more to promote our game I feel. The Edinburgh derby is a capital city game, two historic teams with a great rivalry, it should attract more viewership worldwide in my opinion.


Maybe we could go back to away teams sharing the gate money ? I know that will never happen but to my mind when that changed it put Celtic & Rangers on a different planet to the rest of the teams. I can see why it changed.....why should home fans ticket monies be subsidising away teams with crappy supports. Perhaps a %ge could go to the away team ?

Hibbyradge
22-09-2017, 09:36 AM
From what I've seen on Celtic forums is everyone is in favour of summer football, is there a divide on here like?

That surprises me.

Seriously, start a thread.

MichaelTheCelt
22-09-2017, 09:38 AM
That surprises me.

Seriously, start a thread.
Naw! I feel I'd be in for some flack for starting a thread like that as I'm clearly not privy to the discussion that took place before on here in regards to summer footy :hilarious

MichaelTheCelt
22-09-2017, 09:40 AM
Maybe we could go back to away teams sharing the gate money ? I know that will never happen but to my mind when that changed it put Celtic & Rangers on a different planet to the rest of the teams. I can see why it changed.....why should home fans ticket monies be subsidising away teams with crappy supports. Perhaps a %ge could go to the away team ?
How does this work mate? Honestly have no idea how the gate money works now, my first game was in 98 (at home to Hibs). Do the home teams get a bigger cut of the gate money? So like based on the size of the attendance for both teams it is split accordingly to that?

Tin hat on but home teams getting the bigger share of the gate only seems fair in my opinion, it is the home teams after all.

stantonhibby
22-09-2017, 09:47 AM
How does this work mate? Honestly have no idea how the gate money works now, my first game was in 98 (at home to Hibs). Do the home teams get a bigger cut of the gate money? So like based on the size of the attendance for both teams it is split accordingly to that?

Tin hat on but home teams getting the bigger share of the gate only seems fair in my opinion, it is the home teams after all.


I don't disagree...... I cant remember when it changed may have been early 80's or even earlier but pretty sure back in the day gate money was shared as it is for cup games. Someone tell me I didnt make this up ! Currently for league games home team takes all.

MichaelTheCelt
22-09-2017, 09:49 AM
I don't disagree...... I cant remember when it changed may have been early 80's or even earlier but pretty sure back in the day gate money was shared as it is for cup games. Someone tell me I didnt make this up !
Fairly sure you are right anyway, I have seen people mention the gate money and how it used to be before, well I'm sure I have... :confused:

jgl07
22-09-2017, 09:54 AM
The main difference is TV money. Hibs and Hearts have done very well in terms of getting fans back to watching the game but we didn't embrace sky in the same way that English football did. We are never going to get the same amount of money for viewing rights as the EPL but if we want to generate more revenue I think we need to look at what we can do to make this an attractive product for media companies. We need radical solutions, so perhaps looking beyond the traditional media and to the likes of Youtube and Facebook where the potential audiences are massive. I also think we should consider summer football, where there is so much less competition for media interest.
The problem with 'Summer' football is that at the moment the season finishes in the back end of May and the new season starts in mid-July. That is about six weeks or so of extra publicity. But at that time many of the supporters will be away on holiday.

Switching to the summer hasn't generated much interest in the League of Ireland. The Women's Super League in England has just switched from Summer to Winter.

It would also deprive the SPFL of the New Year matches.

Hibbyradge
22-09-2017, 10:06 AM
I don't disagree...... I cant remember when it changed may have been early 80's or even earlier but pretty sure back in the day gate money was shared as it is for cup games. Someone tell me I didnt make this up !

You're 100% correct.

However, even though gate money was split, Celtic and Rangers still dominated.

Maybe not to the same extent as now, but still to a huge degree.

hibee_nation
22-09-2017, 12:10 PM
I don't disagree...... I cant remember when it changed may have been early 80's or even earlier but pretty sure back in the day gate money was shared as it is for cup games. Someone tell me I didnt make this up ! Currently for league games home team takes all.

That is why Celtc put out joke attendances back then to pocket more of the cash. SFA should have an investigation into their cheating of us out of money :greengrin

superfurryhibby
22-09-2017, 02:08 PM
How does this work mate? Honestly have no idea how the gate money works now, my first game was in 98 (at home to Hibs). Do the home teams get a bigger cut of the gate money? So like based on the size of the attendance for both teams it is split accordingly to that?

Tin hat on but home teams getting the bigger share of the gate only seems fair in my opinion, it is the home teams after all.

The reversal of the long standing tradition of sharing gate money took place because the League authorities cow-towed to the OF and their abysmal influence on the running of our game. It made the gulf much larger than it had ever been before.

For the greater good of the game that should never have happened. Football is business but it's not like other "products". There is no competition and I'm sure OF fans would get tired of playing each other every week. Celtic already have a guaranteed shot of getting into the Champions League every year, that is the bonus of having a monopoly in a noncompetative competition. Clubs should grow some bawz and challenge the status quo.

MichaelTheCelt
22-09-2017, 02:12 PM
The reversal of the long standing tradition of sharing gate money took place because the League authorities cow-towed to the OF and their abysmal influence on the running of our game. It made the gulf much larger than it had ever been before.

For the greater good of the game that should never have happened. Football is business but it's not like other "products". There is no competition and I'm sure OF fans would get tired of playing each other every week. Celtic already have a guaranteed shot of getting into the Champions League every year, that is the bonus of having a monopoly in a noncompetative competition. Clubs should grow some bawz and challenge the status quo.
Do you think then if the gate money was to revert back it would make Hibs Aberdeen and co more competitive?

Waxy
22-09-2017, 02:21 PM
Scottish football is past doomed.

Michael
22-09-2017, 03:04 PM
Do you think then if the gate money was to revert back it would make Hibs Aberdeen and co more competitive?

Would need to crunch the numbers to work it out, but we'd probably take a hit. However, the league as a whole would be more balanced.

Hibernia&Alba
22-09-2017, 05:55 PM
Out of interest, when did the sharing of gate money for league matches end?

Eyrie
22-09-2017, 06:26 PM
Surely" if it would be nice" if our clubs...could win regularly in Europe, it must "not be nice" that they don't?

But, I get it. You don't care that our country's national sport is of an appallingly poor standard.

You're also happy for that to be confirmed, year after year, by our teams being unable to progress past the first or second qualifying rounds of European tournaments.

Personally, I find it depressing that a club with Hibs' European history and pedigree struggles to compete in a league which proves itself to be of such a poor, and embarrassing, standard every 12 months.

Everyone to their own, I guess.

I didn't say that I'm happy with it, I said that I'm not concerned about clubs other than Hibs. I didn't get excited about Celtc making the group stages of the Champions League any more than I would if St Johnstone or Aberdeen had reached the next round.

But you sound like you're stuck with the mindset that Scottish clubs have an entitlement to beat clubs from Malta, Lithuania or some other country that you think is of an even more appalling standard than Scottish football.

As I said, I'm realistic enough to accept that at present we are on a par with the standard of football in these countries. Whether that is due to them improving or us getting worse is debatable.

However the only way for there to be a realistic expectation that Scottish clubs should beat those countries' representatives is to find ways to improve the standard of our game to a level above theirs.

Summer football has been suggested by some, including you, as a solution and it's something I'm willing to support. Revenue sharing is something I'm less convinced by as it's likely to reduce the budgets of our better teams which will hamper them in Europe. A bigger question is how do we encourage more kids to play the game and how do we improve their ability?

mjhibby
22-09-2017, 06:43 PM
I didn't say that I'm happy with it, I said that I'm not concerned about clubs other than Hibs. I didn't get excited about Celtc making the group stages of the Champions League any more than I would if St Johnstone or Aberdeen had reached the next round.

But you sound like you're stuck with the mindset that Scottish clubs have an entitlement to beat clubs from Malta, Lithuania or some other country that you think is of an even more appalling standard than Scottish football.

As I said, I'm realistic enough to accept that at present we are on a par with the standard of football in these countries. Whether that is due to them improving or us getting worse is debatable.

However the only way for there to be a realistic expectation that Scottish clubs should beat those countries' representatives is to find ways to improve the standard of our game to a level above theirs.

Summer football has been suggested by some, including you, as a solution and it's something I'm willing to support. Revenue sharing is something I'm less convinced by as it's likely to reduce the budgets of our better teams which will hamper them in Europe. A bigger question is how do we encourage more kids to play the game and how do we improve their ability?

For whatever reason kids are not applying themselves at learning skills and continually improving their game. The current celtic team is miles away from the Martin O'Neil side,rangers with the likes of Gascoigne and the dons team under fergie. They have a winning mentality but it's the lack of opposition more than their excellence is the reason they haven't lost for so long. It's quite depressing at youth level watching so many kids not put in the big effort to improve themselves and raising the standard of our game. It's easy to criticise but much harder to find solutions. Making all clubs coach their players to a certain skill levels would help but the reason we are on a par with Malta etc is we've fallen behind on fitness levels and ball skills. It's as simple as that but unless there is a complete overhaul of the game from primary school level up nothing will change. Can you see celtic agreeing to changes that would enhance the Scottish game when they are so far ahead of everybody else. I think we know the answer to that.

pacorosssco
22-09-2017, 10:26 PM
Rodgers, complaining and bleeting about the unfairness of having to compete with all those rich clubs in Europe, said that the relative unfairness of their income domestically was irrelevant. Patronising idiot. I hope PSG take ten goals off them in Paris.


Yes good for them domestically unfair in european comps. Totally deluded.

Hibbyradge
23-09-2017, 11:16 AM
I didn't say that I'm happy with it, I said that I'm not concerned about clubs other than Hibs. I didn't get excited about Celtc making the group stages of the Champions League any more than I would if St Johnstone or Aberdeen had reached the next round.

But you sound like you're stuck with the mindset that Scottish clubs have an entitlement to beat clubs from Malta, Lithuania or some other country that you think is of an even more appalling standard than Scottish football.

As I said, I'm realistic enough to accept that at present we are on a par with the standard of football in these countries. Whether that is due to them improving or us getting worse is debatable.

However the only way for there to be a realistic expectation that Scottish clubs should beat those countries' representatives is to find ways to improve the standard of our game to a level above theirs.

Summer football has been suggested by some, including you, as a solution and it's something I'm willing to support. Revenue sharing is something I'm less convinced by as it's likely to reduce the budgets of our better teams which will hamper them in Europe. A bigger question is how do we encourage more kids to play the game and how do we improve their ability?

I don't think Scottish clubs are "entitled" to beat any team from any country.

I do believe they should be though, and regularly, given our population, the resources that go into our game and the fact that football is our national sport.

I saw Hibs beating teams like Rosenberg 9-1 and Sporting Lisbon 6-1.

If we played them now, there's probably more chance of those scores being reversed.

That's (part) of what I find embarrassing, the depths to which our league has fallen.

Maybe if I hadn't witnessed how good we used to be, I would feel differently.

jgl07
25-09-2017, 07:19 PM
I'd disagree with you there mate but that may be my bias showing. Capital city derby and the Dundee derby are bigger games to me than a lot of the derby games in England. Only United-Liverpool, Arsenal-Tottenham, Liverpool-Everton are bigger derbies in my opinion. But again that may be because I'm Scottish.
Maybe its because you are rather confused thinking Liverpool-United is a Derby. It's just a grudge match between previously dominant teams who are finding the going a little tougher.

Derby matches are between two teams from the same city such Liverpool-Everton, City-United, Wednesday-United, etc. - or between two teams from the same part of a very large City such as Spurs-Arsenal, Chelsea-Fulham, Palace-Charlton, etc. or between teams from nearby one-team Cities such as Newcastle-Sunderland.

Grudge matches such as Liverpool-United, Leeds-United, Aberdeen-Rangers and now Wimbledon-MK Dons can be a lot more bitter than many derby matches.