PDA

View Full Version : The main problem here is Neil Lennon



Pages : [1] 2

cleanyman
16-09-2017, 03:53 PM
He doesn't know his best team as yet and it's killing us.

Defensively were are absolutely woeful. Seriously bad.

Motherwell can count themselves unlucky they didn't walk away with all three.

As for Barker ? This is the big league pal. Get used to it.

Phil MaGlass
16-09-2017, 03:57 PM
Ahm no gonnae start havin a pop at lennon, but surely tae f, we should huv got the defence fixed oot by noo. Mibbe the keepers no gettin any confidence fae the guys in front ay him.
FFS mair stupid points dropped.

hibsfan
16-09-2017, 03:58 PM
Once again lennon costs us with ridiculous tactics at 2/1

hibee92
16-09-2017, 04:01 PM
Sack him ahhhhhhhhhhhhh

Thecat23
16-09-2017, 04:01 PM
He's far from clueless. Motherwell for me were simply a better team.

AL-Qaholik
16-09-2017, 04:02 PM
Clueless is very harsh but no doubt about it he is massively underperforming in his job this season.
Playing Whittaker in defence, playing Barker (who offers nothing) ahead of Slivka, constant chopping & changing of the back 4.
He needs to give himself a serious rocket and show he knows how to fix things immediately.

Heisenberg
16-09-2017, 04:02 PM
I think a few fans are beginning to realise that we aren't as good as they'd like to think. Especially at the back.

Pretty Boy
16-09-2017, 04:04 PM
He seemed to panic when it went to 2-1 and we lost any outball when he went 1 up top. We were already wasteful in possession so lumping even more pressure on a shaky defence and keeper who was struggling was a recipe fpr disaster. We were under the cosh for a 10 minute spell and paid the price.

He's got questions to answer now as our bright start seems a long time ago now and we've 2 very tough away trips to come. Big confidence boosting win required on Tuesday.

Juice-Terry
16-09-2017, 04:05 PM
Barker was excellent in the first half, faded badly in the second. Whittaker needs to be dropped. Our passing was very poor today.

guthrie01
16-09-2017, 04:08 PM
It's looking like a repeat of last season, filled with mediocre performances and lots of 1 point matches.

Except we are now in a league with teams that will punish our dropped points instead of letting us get an easy climb to the top.

Billychaotic182
16-09-2017, 04:09 PM
Once we are up against it he takes off our only two players with pace for the counterattack. We should have went to a back 3 and played gray and whiticker as wingbacks.

A Hi-Bee
16-09-2017, 04:13 PM
I think a few fans are beginning to realise that we aren't as good as they'd like to think. Especially at the back.

Been saying the same for a while now, it takes time we have no divine right to a top div place we have to fight and play for it. if that means dropping fav players then thats what will be needed. We are no as good as we may think we are.

Borderhibbie76
16-09-2017, 04:14 PM
Whittaker should be nowhere near the starting 11...been poor for weeks. Utterly ridiculous that Lewy has been dropped

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

frazeHFC
16-09-2017, 04:16 PM
Whittaker should be nowhere near the starting 11...been poor for weeks. Utterly ridiculous that Lewy has been dropped

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Agree, get him far away from the starting 11

Stevie Reid
16-09-2017, 04:17 PM
Our manager is far from clueless. The sooner people realise that there are many good teams in this league, the better. So many on here laugh at the Jambos' sense of entitlement and yet seem to expect us to walkover good teams after being out of the league for three years.

The last two away games we comprehensively outplayed the opposition and drew - today we had good spells but were probably lucky to get a point given how good Motherwell were.

We are still finding our feet, but we are competitive and the performance levels have been pretty good. Given the reasonable points return we've had so far, I don't see much need to worry.

There are some concerns certainly, and we're not beyond criticism, but I think we are far more likely to improve than get worse. And we have plenty time to do that.

Hi Heid Yin
16-09-2017, 04:17 PM
I'm sure, like the rest of us, Neil Lennon is not satisfied with our results and our inability to keep a clean sheet.
He, however, is shrewd and a born winner, and will take the necessary measures to make us a bit tighter at the back.
We haven't completed a first round of fixtures, and are still adapting to the new demands of the SPL, and so I am prepared to be a little more patient and trust in our manager.

Centre Hawf
16-09-2017, 04:19 PM
You couldn't say a bad word about him last season without being slaughtered for it. But we struggled at times in the pishiest version of the championship we were in and weve continued on struggling but this time are being punished for it. His tactics are particularly brutal imo, 4-4-2 with Bartley is dying to be outplayed, taking off the pacey players when wanting to hit teams quick.

I'm not suggesting we get rid or anything like that but at the moment he needs have a serious reality check because whatever hes telling them to do isn't working.

CMac1988
16-09-2017, 04:21 PM
Lots of questinoable decisions and tactics. Get Stevenson back in at left back and drop whittaker to begin with.

Most baffling decision for me was just before their 2nd goal. Bid dave was marking a player at the throw in, just im fromt of the taker. Queue Lennon (I believe) telling hik to drop off and mark the player further up the park. Dave moves and the throw goes to the player that he was initially marking. 2 passes later Goal... Can't fathom the logic behind it whatsoever. Should have been someone else marking him perhaps but that's another issue.

Thegreenside
16-09-2017, 04:22 PM
You couldn't say a bad word about him last season without being slaughtered for it. But we struggled at times in the pishiest version of the championship we were in and weve continued on struggling but this time are being punished for it. His tactics are particularly brutal imo, 4-4-2 with Bartley is dying to be outplayed, taking off the pacey players when wanting to hit teams quick.

I'm not suggesting we get rid or anything like that but at the moment he needs have a serious reality check because whatever hes telling them to do isn't working.

Nonsense, mcginn constantly giving the ball away means we will get outplayed

Brightside
16-09-2017, 04:22 PM
Our manager is far from clueless. The sooner people realise that there are many good teams in this league, the better. So many on here laugh at the Jambos' sense of entitlement and yet seem to expect us to walkover good teams after being out of the league for three years.

The last two away games we comprehensively outplayed the opposition and drew - today we had good spells but were probably lucky to get a point given how good Motherwell were.

We are still finding our feet, but we are competitive and the performance levels have been pretty good. Given the reasonable points return we've had so far, I don't see much need to worry.

There are some concerns certainly, and we're not beyond criticism, but I think we are far more likely to improve than get worse. And we have plenty time to do that.
Celtic are the only good team. The rest are just different shades of bang average.

Heisenberg
16-09-2017, 04:23 PM
He's just signed a new long term deal. Back him ffs. We are only 6 games in.

Winston Ingram
16-09-2017, 04:24 PM
I love the guy but he got it wrong today

Stevie Reid
16-09-2017, 04:25 PM
Celtic are the only good team. The rest are just different shades of bang average.

Your change of context doesn't change my point that it's a competitive league.

I'm very disappointed we didn't win today, but I thoroughly enjoyed the game.

ACLeith
16-09-2017, 04:25 PM
Our manager is far from clueless. The sooner people realise that there are many good teams in this league, the better. So many on here laugh at the Jambos' sense of entitlement and yet seem to expect us to walkover good teams after being out of the league for three years.

The last two away games we comprehensively outplayed the opposition and drew - today we had good spells but were probably lucky to get a point given how good Motherwell were.

We are still finding our feet, but we are competitive and the performance levels have been pretty good. Given the reasonable points return we've had so far, I don't see much need to worry.

There are some concerns certainly, and we're not beyond criticism, but I think we are far more likely to improve than get worse. And we have plenty time to do that.

👍👍

bingo70
16-09-2017, 04:25 PM
Celtic are the only good team. The rest are just different shades of bang average.

Nonsense.

Motherwell were very good today.

hhibs
16-09-2017, 04:25 PM
I'm sure, like the rest of us, Neil Lennon is not satisfied with our results and our inability to keep a clean sheet.
He, however, is shrewd and a born winner, and will take the necessary measures to make us a bit tighter at the back.
We haven't completed a first round of fixtures, and are still adapting to the new demands of the SPL, and so I am prepared to be a little more patient and trust in our manager.

Indeed ,but it really should not be beyond his wit to see Whittaker has been rank rotten at full back.Have to say some of his NL's judgements have been questionable but the Whittaker situation is so blindly clear you have to wonder what is going on.

Nicho87
16-09-2017, 04:26 PM
Barker, Whittaker and matyviciluis whatever the spelling is god awful.

FitbaFolkKen
16-09-2017, 04:27 PM
Clueless is very harsh but no doubt about it he is massively underperforming in his job this season.
Playing Whittaker in defence, playing Barker (who offers nothing) ahead of Slivka, constant chopping & changing of the back 4.
He needs to give himself a serious rocket and show he knows how to fix things immediately.

Agree on Whittaker but barker was superb first half, Whittaker offered him nothing in support.

Never thought I would say it but put Stevenson back in and bench Whittaker.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

easty
16-09-2017, 04:27 PM
Your change of context doesn't change my point that it's a competitive league.

I'm very disappointed we didn't win today, but I thoroughly enjoyed the game.

Really?

I didn't enjoy it at all. Piss poor football. Terrible passing. Some dross control, couple of folk even tripping over the bloody ball.

Billychaotic182
16-09-2017, 04:27 PM
Our manager is far from clueless. The sooner people realise that there are many good teams in this league, the better. So many on here laugh at the Jambos' sense of entitlement and yet seem to expect us to walkover good teams after being out of the league for three years.

The last two away games we comprehensively outplayed the opposition and drew - today we had good spells but were probably lucky to get a point given how good Motherwell were.

We are still finding our feet, but we are competitive and the performance levels have been pretty good. Given the reasonable points return we've had so far, I don't see much need to worry.

There are some concerns certainly, and we're not beyond criticism, but I think we are far more likely to improve than get worse. And we have plenty time to do that.

He is not exempt from criticism, at 2-0 we need to be seeing out games. You can't defend throwing away a 2-0 lead. We are quick to mock hearts for doing the same. He needs to figure out his best team.

neil7908
16-09-2017, 04:28 PM
It isn't quite clicking for us but to say he's clueless is nonsense.

Having said that, I expect to see changes next week.

Whittaker seems to be getting ire from most at the moment but if people think just bringing Stevenson back is going to fix our defence they're dreaming.

Whittaker wasn't responsible for any of the goals conceded today and didn't lose the ball any more frequently than McGinn.

I think we need to get the balance right in midfield and up front.

Big Dave and one of Slivka and McGeough need to be accommodated.

Centre Hawf
16-09-2017, 04:28 PM
Nonsense, mcginn constantly giving the ball away means we will get outplayed I agree with that. But what doesn't help is having someone who looks as comfortable with the ball at his feet as Bambi does on Ice. Bartley isnt why we lost because he does break up play and cover defence well. But if you play Bartley you need McGeouch or Slivka to help play it.

bingo70
16-09-2017, 04:28 PM
Our manager is far from clueless. The sooner people realise that there are many good teams in this league, the better. So many on here laugh at the Jambos' sense of entitlement and yet seem to expect us to walkover good teams after being out of the league for three years.

The last two away games we comprehensively outplayed the opposition and drew - today we had good spells but were probably lucky to get a point given how good Motherwell were.

We are still finding our feet, but we are competitive and the performance levels have been pretty good. Given the reasonable points return we've had so far, I don't see much need to worry.

There are some concerns certainly, and we're not beyond criticism, but I think we are far more likely to improve than get worse. And we have plenty time to do that.

Really good post.

Completely agree with everything.

I actually thought our fans were one of the biggest challenges our players faced today.

Stevie Reid
16-09-2017, 04:28 PM
He is not exempt from criticism, at 2-0 we need to be seeing out games. You can't defend throwing away a 2-0 lead. We are quick to mock hearts for doing the same. He needs to figure out his best team.

I said in the post you quoted that we are not beyond criticism.

Billychaotic182
16-09-2017, 04:29 PM
Barker, Whittaker and matyviciluis whatever the spelling is god awful.

Hold on, Barker is far from awful. Very harsh. Plus has big Davie even had a proper chance. Bit of a daft comment

neil7908
16-09-2017, 04:29 PM
Nonsense.

Motherwell were very good today.

I'd love Moult up front. Him and Stokes would be a dream.

Brightside
16-09-2017, 04:30 PM
Nonsense.

Motherwell were very good today.

Motherwell were allowed to look good today. Middle of the park for us today was very very poor.

Billychaotic182
16-09-2017, 04:30 PM
I said in the post you quoted that we are not beyond criticism.

I know that part I agreed with you. Then I added my own thoughts

FitbaFolkKen
16-09-2017, 04:31 PM
He doesn't know his best team as yet and it's killing us.

Defensively were are absolutely woeful. Seriously bad.

Motherwell can count themselves unlucky they didn't walk away with all three.

As for Barker ? This is the big league pal. Get used to it.

Barker???? Maybe highlighting rocky, or Whittaker or Ambrose today but barker was a nightmare for them first half. Certainly contributed positively




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

easty
16-09-2017, 04:31 PM
I'd say Murray deserves to be dropped, but...I'd still play him ahead of big Dave, and you just can't play Stokes as a centre forward cos he drifts all over the place and you end up playing with nobody up front.

Stevie Reid
16-09-2017, 04:31 PM
I know that part I agreed with you. Then I added my own thoughts

Fair dos man.

FitbaFolkKen
16-09-2017, 04:32 PM
He seemed to panic when it went to 2-1 and we lost any outball when he went 1 up top. We were already wasteful in possession so lumping even more pressure on a shaky defence and keeper who was struggling was a recipe fpr disaster. We were under the cosh for a 10 minute spell and paid the price.

He's got questions to answer now as our bright start seems a long time ago now and we've 2 very tough away trips to come. Big confidence boosting win required on Tuesday.

We weren't controlling the ball though, he tried an extra man in midfield to control the game. Didn't work because we won nothing up top with Dave there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

bingo70
16-09-2017, 04:32 PM
Really?

I didn't enjoy it at all. Piss poor football. Terrible passing. Some dross control, couple of folk even tripping over the bloody ball.

That happens in every level of football in those conditions. It was a wet ball on a soaking wet surface in a very close competitive game.

I personally felt that was a really good game with two decent teams, Motherwell were undoubtably the better for large spells but if you're looking for la liga type football you were at the wrong place.

Stevie Reid
16-09-2017, 04:33 PM
I'd say Murray deserves to be dropped, but...I'd still play him ahead of big Dave, and you just can't play Stokes as a centre forward cos he drifts all over the place and you end up playing with nobody up front.

You mean man of the match Stokes who scored two goals?

Northernhibee
16-09-2017, 04:34 PM
Our manager is far from clueless. The sooner people realise that there are many good teams in this league, the better. So many on here laugh at the Jambos' sense of entitlement and yet seem to expect us to walkover good teams after being out of the league for three years.

The last two away games we comprehensively outplayed the opposition and drew - today we had good spells but were probably lucky to get a point given how good Motherwell were.

We are still finding our feet, but we are competitive and the performance levels have been pretty good. Given the reasonable points return we've had so far, I don't see much need to worry.

There are some concerns certainly, and we're not beyond criticism, but I think we are far more likely to improve than get worse. And we have plenty time to do that.
I'm sorry but if we're two up with the squad at our disposal I feel entitled to think we should see the game out.

Lennon's not clueless but he's not without his share of the blame either.

easty
16-09-2017, 04:35 PM
You mean man of the match Stokes who scored two goals?

I'm not having a go at Stokes. At all.

I'm saying playing him up front as the centre forward, instead of Murray, doesn't work, as he doesn't stay in that position.

cleanyman
16-09-2017, 04:36 PM
How could anyone enjoy that ?

Our passing was terrible and Motherwell were all over us at times.

Moult had too much space the whole game

Poor stuff

lord bunberry
16-09-2017, 04:36 PM
That happens in every level of football in those conditions. It was a wet ball on a soaking wet surface in a very close competitive game.

I personally felt that was a really good game with two decent teams, Motherwell were undoubtably the better for large spells but if you're looking for la liga type football you were at the wrong place.

I agree up to a point, but I thought Motherwell were much better than us. 2-0 completely flattered us. The positive thing is that we regrouped and got a draw. Apart from Stokes our big players didn't perform.

Stuart93
16-09-2017, 04:37 PM
Been saying the same for a while now, it takes time we have no divine right to a top div place we have to fight and play for it. if that means dropping fav players then thats what will be needed. We are no as good as we may think we are.

Hearts seemed to come up and do quite well in their first season...

easty
16-09-2017, 04:37 PM
That happens in every level of football in those conditions. It was a wet ball on a soaking wet surface in a very close competitive game.

I personally felt that was a really good game with two decent teams, Motherwell were undoubtably the better for large spells but if you're looking for la liga type football you were at the wrong place.

It happened to us a lot more than it happened to Motherwell today. Conditions were obv the same for both teams.

I don't expect La Liga standard from Hibs, but I don't expect what I saw today either.

bingo70
16-09-2017, 04:38 PM
Motherwell were allowed to look good today. Middle of the park for us today was very very poor.

I felt Mcginn and Bartley were very good for a long spell but they visibly tired very quickly in the second half.

I personally felt a sub should have been made quicker to get Slivka and/or Mcgeouch on but some of the criticism of Lennon is way over the top. It's a game of small margins and he maybe felt we were capable of getting a third on the break.

Fwiw I also thought the praise of Lennon and the clammer for him to get a new contract was also over the top, everyone IMO is in too much of a rush to say we're either pish or the best side since Brazil '70 when in reality we're probably a gradually improving side that's still finding our feet in this league, we'll have some good weeks and some bad weeks.

silverhibee
16-09-2017, 04:38 PM
Hi Leeann.

Silly talk eh.

AgentDaleCooper
16-09-2017, 04:39 PM
We will come good, especially if we go for moult in january, even if this means loosing mcginn. The fact is though, we're aiming for top 6, and still finding our feet. My only criticism of lennon is dropping lewis and not giving slivka a start since his performance at ipox - this said, the starting line up this week performed well the two previous weeks.

I have 100% confidence in lennon.

Beefster
16-09-2017, 04:40 PM
This place is ****ing nuts sometimes. I'd hate to work at Hibs and be tasked with incremental improvement whilst keeping a bunch of folk with unrealistic expectations onside.

We've just been promoted and lost once in eleven games. Yet Lennon is the one being labelled 'clueless'!

green day
16-09-2017, 04:40 PM
I felt Mcginn and Bartley were very good for a long spell but they visibly tired very quickly in the second half.

I personally felt a sub should have been made quicker to get Slivka and/or Mcgeouch on but some of the criticism of Lennon is way over the top. It's a game of small margins and he maybe felt we were capable of getting a third on the break.

Fwiw I also thought the praise of Lennon and the clammer for him to get a new contract was also over the top, everyone IMO is in too much of a rush to say we're either pish or the best side since Brazil '70 when in reality we're probably a gradually improving side that's still finding our feet in this league, we'll have some good weeks and some bad weeks.

Yep, this is how I feel. There are some good teams in this league - Motherwell won 3 on the bounce ahead of today.

We learn and move on.

bingo70
16-09-2017, 04:40 PM
Hearts seemed to come up and do quite well in their first season...

We've only lost once this season , at this stage that's quite good as well.

Not amazing, not terrible but quite good I'd say.

Hermit Crab
16-09-2017, 04:40 PM
Once again lennon costs us with ridiculous tactics at 2/1


Utter pish, the players cost us. McGinn had another howler, murray ineffective the same with big dave, Whittaker is never a left back and The keeper sold the first goal. We miss big Daz at the back.

neil7908
16-09-2017, 04:40 PM
I'd say Murray deserves to be dropped, but...I'd still play him ahead of big Dave, and you just can't play Stokes as a centre forward cos he drifts all over the place and you end up playing with nobody up front.

I think Murray has really gone off the boil after a good start. For me we need someone up front who can win headers. Every clearance today came straight back at us.

I'd like Stokes on the left of a front 3 with Big Dave in the middle and Boyle or Barker up front.

That also allows us to bring in another central midfielder to help control the game and protect the defence. Slivka has really impressed when I've seen him.

stoneyburn hibs
16-09-2017, 04:41 PM
He has to start Slivka in the middle of the park beside SJM.

Pedantic_Hibee
16-09-2017, 04:42 PM
First thread I've opened since full time. And the last.

I'll be back in a few days once the rockets have disappeared.

whiskas
16-09-2017, 04:44 PM
We don't have a divine right to just turn up and expect 3 points in this league. As we've found out to our cost teams in this league can happily soak up possession then have the quality to hurt us on the break. If we want to win games we need to be more solid and composed at the back and have more quality going forward to break teams down. McGinn is good at running with the ball but he's got to learn Riley the ball do the work more and play simple passes

Keith_M
16-09-2017, 04:44 PM
I think a few fans are beginning to realise that we aren't as good as they'd like to think. Especially at the back.


:agree:


Loads of people were giving me pelters for this last week because I dared to suggest that we're not as good as some of us thought we were.

I wonder what their opinion is this week.

NOLA
16-09-2017, 04:45 PM
If we play Bartley and McGinn I feel we should also start McGeouch/Swanson for their creativity. We didn't sign Whitty to sit on the bench but I feel his signing has upset the balance of the team?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Smartie
16-09-2017, 04:48 PM
Lennon is not clueless. Ridiculous talk.

He is making some mistakes and is not without blame for some of the things that are not quite working for us right now.

Hopefully he will notice this, be aware of this, and do what is required to improve our fortunes, and soon.

I was going to come onto this site and have a hot-heated rant. When I saw "Lennon:clueless" it made me realise that what I was going to have was not really a hot-headed rant at all......

JJP
16-09-2017, 04:49 PM
We have only lost one game so far this season. Get some perspective.

Billychaotic182
16-09-2017, 04:49 PM
If we play Bartley and McGinn I feel we should also start McGeouch/Swanson for their creativity. We didn't sign Whitty to sit on the bench but I feel his signing has upset the balance of the team?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We might not have signed him not to play but everyone should earn their place and on recent forum he should be no where near the starting 11

pacoluna
16-09-2017, 04:52 PM
Nonsense, mcginn constantly giving the ball away means we will get outplayed

Mcginn just needs to keep things simple! Overplays at times

hibsitis
16-09-2017, 04:53 PM
Mark of a manager is whether he outperforms his budget. Did he do it last season? Is he doing it this season? I don't buy this bedding in argument. All these players are more than capable at this level and if anything has come as a surprise to them, who takes responsibility for that?

BoomtownHibees
16-09-2017, 04:57 PM
Thought we were crying out for an extra man in midfield today. The big Dave for Murray sub at 2-0 was also a strange one for me.

Sammy7nil
16-09-2017, 04:58 PM
We are Simply not good enough to have Stokes Murray Barker and Boyle in the starting 11.
McGeoch must be found a place in the team.
Whittiker was very poor McGinn was only poor.
Dave offers nothing okay it is a tough to come on then but he looks clueless.
Rocky is a disaster waiting to happen gives the defence no confidence.

The whole team struggled today our ball retention was woeful.

Lennon will have to earn his wages, because the earlier poster is correct he does not know his best team

Onion
16-09-2017, 04:59 PM
No question we have the personnel, not convinced we're getting the best out of them.

madhatter
16-09-2017, 05:00 PM
What annoys me is the pre-match conferences, Lennon has probably talked about Rangers incident and Celtic for about 20mins+ so far this season. For the manager of Hibs, I think this honestly shows a lack of focus on the job at hand. The latest conference...he talked for 4 minutes about Celtic and their chances in Europe etc.

Also, our defence is really bad. Strangely I don't blame Hanlon and Efe the most. Gray and Whittaker just doesn't work. Both are so slow getting back and so many long balls were played behind them and they just couldn't get back.

I'd drop Efe and Whittaker for the next game though.

We drew this game because Bartley and McGinn faded in the middle and we backed off almost into a back 8 while defending.

I'd try this against Livingston:

433
Laidlaw

Gray Porteous Hanlon Stevenson

McGeouch Slivka McGinn

Barker Matulevicius Boyle

We need to get the Lithuanian lads playing.

chrisski33
16-09-2017, 05:01 PM
Once again lennon costs us with ridiculous tactics at 2/1

pish comment! pish thread! dont need to say anything further!

Hi Heid Yin
16-09-2017, 05:05 PM
We have only lost one game so far this season. Get some perspective.

:agree::agree:

660
16-09-2017, 05:06 PM
What annoys me is the pre-match conferences, Lennon has probably talked about Rangers incident and Celtic for about 20mins+ so far this season. For the manager of Hibs, I think this honestly shows a lack of focus on the job at hand. The latest conference...he talked for 4 minutes about Celtic and their chances in Europe etc.

Also, our defence is really bad. Strangely I don't blame Hanlon and Efe the most. Gray and Whittaker just doesn't work. Both are so slow getting back and so many long balls were played behind them and they just couldn't get back.

I'd drop Efe and Whittaker for the next game though.

We drew this game because Bartley and McGinn faded in the middle and we backed off almost into a back 8 while defending.

I'd try this against Livingston:

433
Laidlaw

Gray Porteous Hanlon Stevenson

McGeouch Slivka McGinn

Barker Matulevicius Boyle

We need to get the Lithuanian lads playing.

To be fair, he is constantly asked about Celtic and Rangers during his press conferences.

frazeHFC
16-09-2017, 05:06 PM
Hold on, Barker is far from awful. Very harsh. Plus has big Davie even had a proper chance. Bit of a daft comment

Don't think it's harsh at all. He's been rubbish since he arrived and "Big Dave" looks a poor mans Brian Graham.

Ozyhibby
16-09-2017, 05:10 PM
Barker and Boyle can't play together. Leaves centre mid badly exposed. Start one and bring the other one on late in the second half. Need McGeogh back in the midfield.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

madhatter
16-09-2017, 05:10 PM
That's twice this season we've folded at ER in the 2nd half.

I'd like to question the player's fitness and game management.

People have every right to say we've only lost 1 game this season but how we've disappeared in the 2nd half twice this season is concerning. Especially since I viewed Motherwell as nothing more than a robust team that continually fouled in the air and committed deliberate handballs etc.

Eyrie
16-09-2017, 05:10 PM
The midfield combination of Boyle-Bartley-McGinn-Barker doesn't work because there is limited creativity in the midfield. Teams know that they can press McGinn to slow us down as he will try to muscle his way free, which takes time.

I'd like to see us try 4-3-3, with McGeouch replacing Boyle and Barker playing as part of a front three. We would then be able to bring Boyle's pace on against tiring opponents.

Brightside
16-09-2017, 05:11 PM
Don't think it's harsh at all. He's been rubbish since he arrived and "Big Dave" looks a poor mans Brian Graham.

Barker was best player on the park first half...imagine if we have a left back who could over lap!!

southern hibby
16-09-2017, 05:11 PM
Right firstly let me start with saying I think we are lucky to have Lennon as our manager.

Now my take on things WTF are we doing to address the back post goals we are conceding? Granted today's first goal should have been punched ( at least ) by rocky, but we seem to allow headers in by teams aiming for the back post at crosses. Also I understand the St Johnstone goal was not a header but was definitely back post job.

This would be my first issue of addressing if I had a wish list, maybe just maybe sorting this out would help us getting a win or two. As for NL being clueless have a serious word.

GGTTH

madhatter
16-09-2017, 05:12 PM
To be fair, he is constantly asked about Celtic and Rangers during his press conferences.

To be fair, he could give short answers that show his unwillingness to continue that line of questioning. He doesn't, in his recent one I believe he even says "we" when talking about Celtic...

Thegreenside
16-09-2017, 05:13 PM
I agree with that. But what doesn't help is having someone who looks as comfortable with the ball at his feet as Bambi does on Ice. Bartley isnt why we lost because he does break up play and cover defence well. But if you play Bartley you need McGeouch or Slivka to help play it.

And I think we will, 3 at the back and 5 man midfield is the way for us I think

660
16-09-2017, 05:14 PM
To be fair, he could give short answers that show his unwillingness to continue that line of questioning. He doesn't, in his recent one I believe he even says "we" when talking about Celtic...

He said “we” when talking about the Celtic team he managed in the champions league.

madhatter
16-09-2017, 05:18 PM
He said “we” when talking about the Celtic team he managed in the champions league.

In a pre-match interview for Hibs vs Motherwell. That makes sense now...

Reminiscing about the good old days at Celtic is what we need in the pre-match conference aired on a Hibs TV for paid subscribers of the Hibs persuasion. Sorry zero justification for this. Does Mourinho chat about Chelsea a lot in Man Utd pre-match conferences?

Greenwich_Hibby
16-09-2017, 05:18 PM
Just Pat Fenlon with a much bigger budget?:cb

Discuss?

Andy74
16-09-2017, 05:21 PM
First thread I've opened since full time. And the last.

I'll be back in a few days once the rockets have disappeared.

Some total roasters, certainly.

cabbageandribs1875
16-09-2017, 05:25 PM
just listened to NL's interview, i'm actually begining to really like him now...says it how it is :agree: a f*** up by rocky lets them right back in it, then we play like wee 12 year old laddies (like against Hamilton), no leadership, unacceptable....so what's the answer ? one ****** lousy point at home to Hamilton accies and Murrawell...

660
16-09-2017, 05:32 PM
In a pre-match interview for Hibs vs Motherwell. That makes sense now...

Reminiscing about the good old days at Celtic is what we need in the pre-match conference aired on a Hibs TV for paid subscribers of the Hibs persuasion. Sorry zero justification for this. Does Mourinho chat about Chelsea a lot in Man Utd pre-match conferences?

As I already said, was asked a question and answered it. Not really reminiscing. Also, the press conferences are available for free on YouTube (published by Hibs). Keep trying though.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
16-09-2017, 05:35 PM
I felt Mcginn and Bartley were very good for a long spell but they visibly tired very quickly in the second half.

I personally felt a sub should have been made quicker to get Slivka and/or Mcgeouch on but some of the criticism of Lennon is way over the top. It's a game of small margins and he maybe felt we were capable of getting a third on the break.

Fwiw I also thought the praise of Lennon and the clammer for him to get a new contract was also over the top, everyone IMO is in too much of a rush to say we're either pish or the best side since Brazil '70 when in reality we're probably a gradually improving side that's still finding our feet in this league, we'll have some good weeks and some bad weeks.

Totally agree, great post.

Iys the internet driven society we seem to be in - everything is an extreme.

It seems quite clear to me that we, as a support, underestimated the step-up.

We have been three years in the lower league against teams that are slower, poorer, weaker and who gave us far more time on the ball. Both Hamilton and Motherwell more than matched us physically.

Basically as others have said, we are not as good as we think we are, and everyone else is better than we, as a collective support, habe given them credit for.

I do agree that lennon should have managed his team better at 2up, but lets not pretend for a moment that if wr had gone on full-on defensive, and killed the game for the last 30 mins, that plenty of people on here wouldnt have been complaining about negativity, not going for the throat, and that it wasnt what fans paid their money for.

Managers imo, shouldnt be overly blamed, or lauded, for individual performances, or spells in matches - their input is limited. Its best to judge them by patterns and longer periods of peformances, and so far the performances this season have been good.

Greenwich_Hibby
16-09-2017, 05:35 PM
just listened to NL's interview, i'm actually begining to really like him now...says it how it is :agree: a f*** up by rocky lets them right back in it, then we play like wee 12 year old laddies (like against Hamilton), no leadership, unacceptable....so what's the answer ? one ****** lousy point at home to Hamilton accies and Murrawell...

He forgets it his team, his tactics and he's responsible- cannae blame other folk now. Never his fault. Sorry Neil, today is down to you - stop tinkering and pick your best (fit) players in the right positions.

SRHibs
16-09-2017, 05:36 PM
Today was odd. Players were bickering with each other everywhere, and we looked completely disjointed. Hopefully it was just a bad day and there was nothing to read into.

Tobias Funke
16-09-2017, 05:37 PM
First thread I've opened since full time. And the last.

I'll be back in a few days once the rockets have disappeared.

I concur. I am not happy with today's result but the morons slating Barker and Matulevicius clearly are at it. There was far worse than them today.

Arch Stanton
16-09-2017, 05:37 PM
Celtic are the only good team. The rest are just different shades of bang average.

You've managed to desparage a very competitive league - bottom two teams earn points against 2nd and 3rd teams - why is that so awful?

Paisley Hibby
16-09-2017, 05:40 PM
He doesn't know his best team as yet and it's killing us.

Defensively were are absolutely woeful. Seriously bad.

Motherwell can count themselves unlucky they didn't walk away with all three.

As for Barker ? This is the big league pal. Get used to it.

You need to give credit to Motherwell for turning things round. Until we went 2-0 up they looked like a Craig Levein team on steroids - big, physical and long ball/quick breaks. We were dealing with that OK. But once they started taking the game to us (because they had to) they looked a decent side. Barker was great in the first half and also for our second goal so not sure what you mean by that comment?

Sir David Gray
16-09-2017, 05:43 PM
He's hardly clueless but he certainly hasn't found his best team yet and we're not quite as good as I thought we would be so far.

Defensively we're all over the shop at times but there's certainly nothing to worry about.

Based on what I've seen so far, I think we may need to revise our expectations a wee bit. I think top six is a much more realistic target than top four.

cabbageandribs1875
16-09-2017, 05:44 PM
He forgets it his team, his tactics and he's responsible- cannae blame other folk now. Never his fault. Sorry Neil, today is down to you - stop tinkering and pick your best (fit) players in the right positions.


you're right and good points, but why are the players we have not up for the fight, motherwell eventually started playing like barcelona where we just simply couldn't get the ball of them, imo the players thought it was job done when we went 2 goals up

Smartie
16-09-2017, 05:51 PM
Today was odd. Players were bickering with each other everywhere, and we looked completely disjointed. Hopefully it was just a bad day and there was nothing to read into.

We also managed to play very well for spells though. We looked very threatening going forward for much of the first half, we had some very good individual performances. Our defence actually knocked it about really nicely under pressure at times, whilst looking like we might lose a goal every time the ball went near our box.

It wasn't all bad, but a lot of it certainly was.

Greenwich_Hibby
16-09-2017, 05:54 PM
you're right and good points, but why are the players we have not up for the fight, motherwell eventually started playing like barcelona where we just simply couldn't get the ball of them, imo the players thought it was job done when we went 2 goals up

Fair points - if they have no internal motivation and can't get it from the boss, then we have an issue. Time for the senior pro's to earn their corn. If they can't, then get rid.

madhatter
16-09-2017, 05:57 PM
As I already said, was asked a question and answered it. Not really reminiscing. Also, the press conferences are available for free on YouTube (published by Hibs). Keep trying though.

It becomes reminiscing when he doesn't give blank "not interested discussing this" response. He purposely gives anecdotal evidence of Celtic being able to pull off big results and even encouraged discussions of Celtic through his willingness to discuss them. If I remember correctly he had to be interrupted and brought back to Hibs with "sorry Neil any information regarding injuries etc.?" or something to that effect. Available free? That's even worse, why should UK members pay for HibsTV subscription then? I've cancelled my subscription after those ridiculous pre-match conferences. Keep trying what? Stop us becoming the mini-Celtic perhaps? I'm not sure what I'm perceived as "trying".

I find it poor that half of a Hibs pre-match conference was spent talking about Celtic. Really not sure why you don't...when we play Celtic will the full pre-match conference be about them?

wookie70
16-09-2017, 06:02 PM
I always think there are a few signs to look out for when judging a Manager.

Are we organised. I saw a very good, albeit not original, free kick at the start of the second half and a good run from Hanlon, that was clearly planned, where we got a header at the back post. Apart from that we were marked tight at throw ins and gave the ball away or into bad situations regularly. We pretty much don't mark at throw ins and allow players huge amounts of space to receive the ball. We are far to far off the opposition all around the pitch. The zone system employed at set pieces allows players to run pretty much unchallenged to the back post and doesn't handle any decent ball falling inbetween the zone. Murray had the ball for our Pen, was he meant to be taking it before Stokes grabbed it. Not sure who our corner taker is as STokes decides to take them sometimes. Our defensive line is all over the place and I have no idea who is meant to be setting our line as we often have Hanlon pushing out as Effe drops in. Whittaker and SDG are often found 5 yards behind the CBs. The line can be excused a wee bit as the positions have been changed so often its no wonder they look like they hardly know each other. The first five minutes of games look like we have no game plan whatsoever and we look a complete shambles. If we have kick off we should know exactly what we are going to do for the first move of the game. We look like we make it up at the centre spot.

Heart/Bottle Bit of a mixed report card for the team on this imo. We do seem to have a bit of heart and show reasonable levels of effort but we lack leadership when the chips are down and we are more than capable of complete collapses. We also started the season pressing teams high up the park and hunting in packs but now we seem to be sitting off and giving them the freedom of Easter Road.

Tactics - I actually think the tactics in the first half would have worked brilliantly last year where we played a stuffy, boring, often hoofball style. To be fair we went 2-0 up so they were far from a disaster but Motherwell looked very dangerous today at all times and when we went 2-0 up I think I would have got an extra body in the middle of the park to keep possession better. Our subs more often than not make us worse and when we change shape it rarely seems to work. Motherwell pushed another body up top today and we completely failed to react and looked panic stricken because our shape just wasn't working.

I have the same opinion of Lennon as when he was announced. I have no idea if he will work out or not. I think a 3 year contract is a huge gamble based on his performance so far. However, we are a couple of games away from him creeping up to an above average record or a couple of games away from a bit of a crisis. At the moment we are exactly what we were last year - bang average. His signings haven't been great again but that could change as the season wears on. The one thing I do like this season, more to do with the league than Lennon, is that at least the games are interesting. This year we have also stopped playing hoofball which is a great relief. I do have a concern over the loyalty Lennon shows some players. I saw him today lose the plot at Hanlon, our best defender on the day, for playing a floated pass that we ended up getting a throw in from. It wasn't a great ball but no harm done. I watch him when Stokes makes no effort or when Whittaker looks lazy or Ambrose does something ridiculous and he doesn't get nearly as animated. He was the same with Holt last year. It was almost as if Holt was the manager at times. He seems to have huge respect for those who have had great careers. As far as I am concerned those careers are behind them and the only thing that counts is what they do at Hibs. In fact with their experience I would be more inclined to be tearing a strip off them.

To sum up we have an average manager, he is not a winner he is more of a middle drawer, overseeing an average team in an average league. I suspect we will finish in an average position, 6th or 7th, but spend a good deal more than average and have a far bigger home crowd than average. To be honest for our first season back anything that doesn't involve a relegation battle will not be a disaster. He is often said to get Hibs. Well in my 40 odd years of watching, on average we have been an under-performing team, rarely well organised, often a bit soft in the centre and very inconsistent, we have the occasional dazzling display and some truly awful ones. In Lennon's time he has certainly proved he gets Hibs.

AgentDaleCooper
16-09-2017, 06:03 PM
Question for folk who are raging - realistically, where should we be at this stage in the season?

Thecat23
16-09-2017, 06:04 PM
Question for folk who are raging - realistically, where should we be at this stage in the season?

We are actually unlucky not to be further ahead, good performances against Saints and before that Dundee. Today was rotten!

wookie70
16-09-2017, 06:08 PM
Question for folk who are raging - realistically, where should we be at this stage in the season?
We have the 4th or 5th biggest budget. We should be around 4th or 5th. We are within striking distance of that but I think we have had a relatively easy start to the season as we still have Aberdeen, Hearts and The Rangers still to play. We now have a bit of a centre half injury crisis which may not help. If we can win on Tuesday I think it could give us a great lift. That is in no way certain though.

Pretty Boy
16-09-2017, 06:09 PM
Question for folk who are raging - realistically, where should we be at this stage in the season?

I'm not raging but I don't think it's unrealistic to be beating Hamilton at home and holding on to a 2 goal lead at home v Motherwell. Draws away at St Johnstone and Dundee are arguably good results that could and should have been better.

We have 2 really tough away games coming up before facing Aberdeen at home. A tougher run of games than we have just had imo. It's not difficult to get into a bit of a rut in this league and start sliding down the league. It's why winning when we are on top is so important.

Allant1981
16-09-2017, 06:18 PM
Barker, Whittaker and matyviciluis whatever the spelling is god awful.

barker was not awful

wookie70
16-09-2017, 06:21 PM
Barker was the best player on the park in the first half by a country mile. I would have taken him off instead of Boyle though as he faded out the game completely and is nowhere near as good as Boyle off the ball

Billychaotic182
16-09-2017, 06:23 PM
Question for folk who are raging - realistically, where should we be at this stage in the season?

Not being humped by Hamilton at home and chucking a 2-0 lead at home.

BlackSheep
16-09-2017, 06:26 PM
We have the 4th or 5th biggest budget. We should be around 4th or 5th. We are within striking distance of that but I think we have had a relatively easy start to the season as we still have Aberdeen, Hearts and The Rangers still to play. We now have a bit of a centre half injury crisis which may not help. If we can win on Tuesday I think it could give us a great lift. That is in no way certain though.

Funny... I thought we beat The Rangers 3-2 at Castle Greyskull already 😂

Hibernia&Alba
16-09-2017, 06:30 PM
This place is ****ing nuts sometimes. I'd hate to work at Hibs and be tasked with incremental improvement whilst keeping a bunch of folk with unrealistic expectations onside.

We've just been promoted and lost once in eleven games. Yet Lennon is the one being labelled 'clueless'!

:agree:

We've been out of the SPL for three years; it's going to take a while to acclimatise to a tough match every week, and that includes the manger. Lennon isn't perfect: if he was, he wouldn't be at Hibs, but we need to be realistic. Steady improvement is the key now. We'll improve as the season unfolds, and it will take good sides to finish above us. Lennon will learn along with the players.

cabbageandribs1875
16-09-2017, 06:31 PM
4 points out of 9 at home to

partick thistle
Hamilton Accies
Motherwell

it's like going back to the old days before our stint in the championship :duck:


sigh

WhileTheChief..
16-09-2017, 06:31 PM
He forgets it his team, his tactics and he's responsible- cannae blame other folk now. Never his fault. Sorry Neil, today is down to you - stop tinkering and pick your best (fit) players in the right positions.

Genius idea. Why not write him a letter.

Allant1981
16-09-2017, 06:32 PM
Don't think it's harsh at all. He's been rubbish since he arrived and "Big Dave" looks a poor mans Brian Graham.

he hasnt been rubbish so dont talk garbage

660
16-09-2017, 06:33 PM
It becomes reminiscing when he doesn't give blank "not interested discussing this" response. He purposely gives anecdotal evidence of Celtic being able to pull off big results and even encouraged discussions of Celtic through his willingness to discuss them. If I remember correctly he had to be interrupted and brought back to Hibs with "sorry Neil any information regarding injuries etc.?" or something to that effect. Available free? That's even worse, why should UK members pay for HibsTV subscription then? I've cancelled my subscription after those ridiculous pre-match conferences. Keep trying what? Stop us becoming the mini-Celtic perhaps? I'm not sure what I'm perceived as "trying".

I find it poor that half of a Hibs pre-match conference was spent talking about Celtic. Really not sure why you don't...when we play Celtic will the full pre-match conference be about them?

Answering a question is not reminiscing.
Hibs and Lennon do not control what questions the media ask him.

I don’t think Hibs pre match press conferences should be spent talking about Celtic but I prefer to blame those actually responsible for the questions instead of Neil Lennon.

pacoluna
16-09-2017, 06:34 PM
This forum has a lot of ****ing roasters on it. Embarrassing

WhileTheChief..
16-09-2017, 06:35 PM
Going by this board tonight we have a clueless manager and a load of average or rubbish players.

How are we expected to win every game if this is the case? :confused:

wookie70
16-09-2017, 06:37 PM
Funny... I thought we beat The Rangers 3-2 at Castle Greyskull already 😂 Celtc of course. Anyways we have had an easier start than quite a few of our rivals

gaz1875
16-09-2017, 06:37 PM
I always think there are a few signs to look out for when judging a Manager.

Are we organised. I saw a very good, albeit not original, free kick at the start of the second half and a good run from Hanlon, that was clearly planned, where we got a header at the back post. Apart from that we were marked tight at throw ins and gave the ball away or into bad situations regularly. We pretty much don't mark at throw ins and allow players huge amounts of space to receive the ball. We are far to far off the opposition all around the pitch. The zone system employed at set pieces allows players to run pretty much unchallenged to the back post and doesn't handle any decent ball falling inbetween the zone. Murray had the ball for our Pen, was he meant to be taking it before Stokes grabbed it. Not sure who our corner taker is as STokes decides to take them sometimes. Our defensive line is all over the place and I have no idea who is meant to be setting our line as we often have Hanlon pushing out as Effe drops in. Whittaker and SDG are often found 5 yards behind the CBs. The line can be excused a wee bit as the positions have been changed so often its no wonder they look like they hardly know each other. The first five minutes of games look like we have no game plan whatsoever and we look a complete shambles. If we have kick off we should know exactly what we are going to do for the first move of the game. We look like we make it up at the centre spot.

Heart/Bottle Bit of a mixed report card for the team on this imo. We do seem to have a bit of heart and show reasonable levels of effort but we lack leadership when the chips are down and we are more than capable of complete collapses. We also started the season pressing teams high up the park and hunting in packs but now we seem to be sitting off and giving them the freedom of Easter Road.

Tactics - I actually think the tactics in the first half would have worked brilliantly last year where we played a stuffy, boring, often hoofball style. To be fair we went 2-0 up so they were far from a disaster but Motherwell looked very dangerous today at all times and when we went 2-0 up I think I would have got an extra body in the middle of the park to keep possession better. Our subs more often than not make us worse and when we change shape it rarely seems to work. Motherwell pushed another body up top today and we completely failed to react and looked panic stricken because our shape just wasn't working.

I have the same opinion of Lennon as when he was announced. I have no idea if he will work out or not. I think a 3 year contract is a huge gamble based on his performance so far. However, we are a couple of games away from him creeping up to an above average record or a couple of games away from a bit of a crisis. At the moment we are exactly what we were last year - bang average. His signings haven't been great again but that could change as the season wears on. The one thing I do like this season, more to do with the league than Lennon, is that at least the games are interesting. This year we have also stopped playing hoofball which is a great relief. I do have a concern over the loyalty Lennon shows some players. I saw him today lose the plot at Hanlon, our best defender on the day, for playing a floated pass that we ended up getting a throw in from. It wasn't a great ball but no harm done. I watch him when Stokes makes no effort or when Whittaker looks lazy or Ambrose does something ridiculous and he doesn't get nearly as animated. He was the same with Holt last year. It was almost as if Holt was the manager at times. He seems to have huge respect for those who have had great careers. As far as I am concerned those careers are behind them and the only thing that counts is what they do at Hibs. In fact with their experience I would be more inclined to be tearing a strip off them.

To sum up we have an average manager, he is not a winner he is more of a middle drawer, overseeing an average team in an average league. I suspect we will finish in an average position, 6th or 7th, but spend a good deal more than average and have a far bigger home crowd than average. To be honest for our first season back anything that doesn't involve a relegation battle will not be a disaster. He is often said to get Hibs. Well in my 40 odd years of watching, on average we have been an under-performing team, rarely well organised, often a bit soft in the centre and very inconsistent, we have the occasional dazzling display and some truly awful ones. In Lennon's time he has certainly proved he gets Hibs.

I Agree with pretty much all this Wookie, we start games as if the players have never met before, and we don't learn from mistakes. It was clear today we lost the midfield for most parts of the first half from early on, and never changed anything until it was 2 - 1. Lets not kid ourselves we were very lucky to have been 2 - 0 up. McGinn sits far to deep for some reason, duplicating the role of Barclay, I remember him pre Lennon days, bursting forward attacking the opposition, Lennnon is turning him into a Scott Brown which is not his game. No one pressed Motherwell when they had the ball, we only dropped deeper inviting them to us. Today when I arrived the teams were going through the score board, I thought a few good positive changes, then noticed that was the bench!! all our ball players sitting the start out? I feel for the likes of S Murray he wasn't given a sniff not because of the defending but the lack of creativity from us.

We have an above average team on paper but playing less than average on the pitch, Rocky, Whittaker and McGinn need to give themselves a big shake, Lennon has been showing them some incredible loyalty, despite dropping others who have made less errors.

madhatter
16-09-2017, 06:37 PM
Answering a question is not reminiscing.
Hibs and Lennon do not control what questions the media ask him.

I don’t think Hibs pre match press conferences should be spent talking about Celtic but I prefer to blame those actually responsible for the questions instead of Neil Lennon.

Answering a question does become reminiscing when he states "we" and talks of his days with Celtic. He was asked if great Scottish results in Europe would happen again and he goes on to talk about "we" and so on. Sorry but that is going further than answering a question - "Yes, we're playing Motherwell tomorrow though, not much of an European tie - can we please keep this on topic?" would've answered the question and encouraged a change in topic.

I do blame the shocking journalists but lets be honest Hibs and Lennon could reject the questions. I've seen other managers reject inappropriate questions many many times. Being asked about Celtic before an important match at home is inappropriate. We weren't playing Celtic so why is Lennon being asked about them? And why is he all too happy to answer? He is Hibs manager, sometimes I think he loses grasp of that when talking to the media.

KWJ
16-09-2017, 06:38 PM
Our manager is far from clueless. The sooner people realise that there are many good teams in this league, the better. So many on here laugh at the Jambos' sense of entitlement and yet seem to expect us to walkover good teams after being out of the league for three years.

The last two away games we comprehensively outplayed the opposition and drew - today we had good spells but were probably lucky to get a point given how good Motherwell were.

We are still finding our feet, but we are competitive and the performance levels have been pretty good. Given the reasonable points return we've had so far, I don't see much need to worry.

There are some concerns certainly, and we're not beyond criticism, but I think we are far more likely to improve than get worse. And we have plenty time to do that.

Shh. Less of that sensible chat when there is frothing to be had.

brianmc
16-09-2017, 06:41 PM
Barker and Boyle can't play together. Leaves centre mid badly exposed. Start one and bring the other one on late in the second half. Need McGeogh back in the midfield.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Finally, a voice of reason!
Because of the personnel Lennon picked today, regardless of what might've been said in the dressing room pre match, we were effectively 4-2-4 today. Expecting McGinn and Bartley to match up to 4 or sometimes 5 Motherwell midfielders was never going to work.
For the Livi game I'd have McGinn, McGeough, Slivka and Boyle in midfield. That, hopefully, would give us a much better balance.

silverhibee
16-09-2017, 06:42 PM
Question for folk who are raging - realistically, where should we be at this stage in the season?


Was there not talk of us looking to clinch 2nd spot with the squad we have from Lennon not so long ago.

So i would hope to be a wee bit further up the league at this stage in the season.

Just to point out, I'm not raging :greengrin

Hibernia&Alba
16-09-2017, 06:44 PM
Was there not talk of us looking to clinch 2nd spot with the squad we have from Lennon not so long ago.

So i would hope to be a wee bit further up the league at this stage in the season.

It's still very early doors, Silver, and I remain confident we'll finish nearer the top than the bottom. Yes, there are issues to iron out, but I have faith in Lennon to remedy them.

bingo70
16-09-2017, 06:47 PM
Was there not talk of us looking to clinch 2nd spot with the squad we have from Lennon not so long ago.

So i would hope to be a wee bit further up the league at this stage in the season.

No.

He said after the Aberdeen game we were as good as them and that's where that comes from.

This season he's been very keen not to set targets and has a few times played down the 2nd place expectation.

eastcoasthibby
16-09-2017, 06:49 PM
We think we hve a better squad than we have, most of the teams have a good percentage of players that are good honest lads that work hard and know what it takes in this league and, play to their strengths every week.the teams that get results are.consistent and have e special player.or couple.of players that get them results. We are still finding our feet and best 11 some players are not.performing well, not realising you eed.to work hard and be consistent, we are trying to overplay and not be decisive enough in defending , midfield and up front ....lets.get back to basics first defend well nd let the flair players do their stuff !! If you dont do your job and get up for it in this league, where there are better players then you will get found out .. we have.good players but they need to get out and prove that every week for 90 minutes not 15-20 ..earn fast and we will do just fine ...

silverhibee
16-09-2017, 06:52 PM
No.

He said after the Aberdeen game we were as good as them and that's where that comes from.

This season he's been very keen not to set targets and has a few times played down the 2nd place expectation.

"The intention is to finish second." Neil Lennon says it's realistic for Hibs to finish only behind Celtic next season. 7:20 PM - May 16, 2017

Read more at: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/hibernian/hibs-are-aiming-for-second-says-neil-lennon-1-4447751

FitbaFolkKen
16-09-2017, 06:54 PM
Barker was best player on the park first half...imagine if we have a left back who could over lap!!

This is spot on!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hibernia&Alba
16-09-2017, 06:56 PM
"The intention is to finish second." Neil Lennon says it's realistic for Hibs to finish only behind Celtic next season. 7:20 PM - May 16, 2017

Read more at: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/hibernian/hibs-are-aiming-for-second-says-neil-lennon-1-4447751

Second is certainly up for grabs. There's Celtic and then there's the rest of us, all at a similar level. Aberdeen have the best chance, but it's wide open. Consistency will be the key, but I think we have a chance of second. Several other teams will think the same.

bingo70
16-09-2017, 06:58 PM
"The intention is to finish second." Neil Lennon says it's realistic for Hibs to finish only behind Celtic next season. 7:20 PM - May 16, 2017

Read more at: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/hibernian/hibs-are-aiming-for-second-says-neil-lennon-1-4447751

"Our challenge first of all is to target top six"

The context of that question to him came on the back of his comments after the Aberdeen game and he couldn't really have said anything else.

"No we don't want to target Aberdeen for second spot as it's too difficult "......that's just not in his nature.

I do however accept I was wrong in my earlier post, I do think the context of the link you posted is relevant though.

Jonnyboy
16-09-2017, 06:59 PM
He's an angry man and rightly so

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/909116296079433729

Smartie
16-09-2017, 07:01 PM
It's often worrying when a manager doesn't seem to know his best team, and it is a concern that Lennon certainly doesn't seem to know his best defence (as well as it being a bit concerning that injuries will be affecting our options to deal with loss of form).

He did pick an unchanged team, so that was clearly the best he thought he had available.

Some of the stuff he needs to do is obvious (such as getting Lewis back into the team) and it would be hugely concerning if he didn't do this.

It would take balls to drop Ambrose for Porteous but I think that's what he needs to do. If fit, McGregor or Fontaine would be walking into that team.

We were good going forward in the first half but we were very open. I feel a bit sorry for Lennon in that he tried to shore it up with his substitutions but through losing the goals in quick succession he then had to try to win the game with the players he had put on to shore it up. Davy needed a chance but didn't show anything to suggest he deserves another one any time soon.

Lennon has 2 problems - from midfield forward who does he leave out, and in defence - who does he pick and in what shape.

He also needs to do a bit better with his substitutions during a game.

wookie70
16-09-2017, 07:02 PM
"The intention is to finish second." Neil Lennon says it's realistic for Hibs to finish only behind Celtic next season. 7:20 PM - May 16, 2017

Read more at: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/hibernian/hibs-are-aiming-for-second-says-neil-lennon-1-4447751

He was also very clear in saying we were the second best team in the country after the second best team in the country beat us at Hampden in the semi. If the fans have expectations of 2nd or top 4 they come from Lennon at least in part. My expectations are possible top 6. Our defense is nowhere near good enough to finish above above 6th from what I can see and we have nowhere near enough creativity and goal scoring ability to counter losing so many goals. We also don't have the tactical awareness to win many games while not being as good as the opposition and lack the tactical awareness to always see games out when we are on top.

silverhibee
16-09-2017, 07:06 PM
It's still very early doors, Silver, and I remain confident we'll finish nearer the top than the bottom. Yes, there are issues to iron out, but I have faith in Lennon to remedy them.

Couple of tough games coming up, need to start turning these draws in to wins if we are wanting to be at the top end of the table come the end of the season, I think Lennon is still undecided on what is his best 11 yet.

MacGruber
16-09-2017, 07:08 PM
The Whittaker left back experiment has failed.

Whittaker is a forward going right sided wing back. It's a full back required behind a winger not a wing back - least of all on the left, again behind a winger.

Stevenson plays, dependable but a full back. Always struggled without a winger. A left winger is played and the consistent left sided full back is emptied for a right sided wing back playing behind a winger.

A hole at left back, a mistake prone centre half (though a good player) beside him and a man given up in the middle to accomodate 2 wingers. Space for Motherwell all over the place. They should have won.

How is Dylan not starting when fit I personally don't know.

We were 2 up at home after 55 mins and I had zero confidence of the win. A goal was coming. Game Management required. Being lucky enough to be 2 up take it. Shore it up. Winger off and central on - we didn't need to chase.

Barker off before Boyle for me too. Barker was okay but clearly still off 100% fitness. Boyle would have kept up more of a threat.

Anyway, spleen vented.

We have a good team in there somewhere just need to get the right blend. Lennon needs to startby asking himself questions I think. Looks to me he has his favourites

DavidDavidGray
16-09-2017, 07:15 PM
Lennon is obviously a very good manager, however he got his tactics wrong today. Whittaker at left back still baffles me and he didn't know what to do when we conceded. He also seems to have his favourites, as shown by the fact that Whittaker keeps starting despite being average so far and that Ambrose gets a game ahead of Hanlon/McGregor when all 3 are fit. Anyone calling for Lenny to be sacked is stupid, but he needs a tactical change as this ain't working.

emerald green
16-09-2017, 07:28 PM
He's an angry man and rightly so

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/909116296079433729

Spot on Neil. No leadership from any of his experienced players. P*** poor defending. Nothing after Motherwell scored. No game intelligence. Hibs weren't matching them physically either.

Lennon is correct when he says there's nothing he can do about all these individual errors on the pitch, but he is the one who has to ultimately take responsibility.

Northernhibee
16-09-2017, 07:34 PM
He's an angry man and rightly so

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/909116296079433729

I'm getting a little tired of Lennon taking the plaudits when we win but being quite slow to hold his hands up when we don't win. We saw it last season and we're seeing it again now.

If he was to say "I got the substitutions wrong today - we could have played a lot better on the pitch but we lost our shape in the latter half of the game" etc. in the press then I'd respect him a lot more.

HappyAsHellas
16-09-2017, 07:43 PM
In his interview he is angry at how the players performed - Rocky not dealing with their first and Efe and Paul at the second. I don't see how he is responsible for individual mistakes. I don't agree with Whitty at left back as well as some of his substitutions etc but ultimately that's not what cost us the points today. I'm sure he'll let them know exactly what he wants which in reality is what we all want - winners and leaders on the park.

wookie70
16-09-2017, 07:46 PM
I'm getting a little tired of Lennon taking the plaudits when we win but being quite slow to hold his hands up when we don't win. We saw it last season and we're seeing it again now.

If he was to say "I got the substitutions wrong today - we could have played a lot better on the pitch but we lost our shape in the latter half of the game" etc. in the press then I'd respect him a lot more.

I'm the same. He literally can't seem to do anything wrong. He is almost God like to some on here despite his record so far with us being pass marks only.

Maybe his senior players were struggling because we had two wingers, one a kid and the other just back from injury and our two centre mids were getting completely out numbered. Maybe we struggled to defend properly because the defence is changed on a practically weekly basis. We got worse when he made substitutions, not too unusual that. There were a whole host of reasons that effected the game that he had control over. He should shoulder some of the blame. It doesn't help Cliff buttering him up saying he would have made a difference if he was on the field today. I want to see Lennon make a difference from the sidelines and today his substitutions made us worse and we never reacted to Motherwell pushing player further up the park before it was too late. We were crying out for a Dylan type player and he came on with 4 mins to go.

familyman
16-09-2017, 08:06 PM
He is not exempt from criticism, at 2-0 we need to be seeing out games. You can't defend throwing away a 2-0 lead. We are quick to mock hearts for doing the same. He needs to figure out his best team.
yes he is the best man for Hibs and yes he does get it wrong,for me at least today he was too slow to bring on Dylan and so John McGinn had it all to do which meant the midfield was one sided.
Complacency at left back and goalkeeper needs addressed ,so let us give Neil the chance to sort it asap,you can see his heart is in Hibs and so give him a little breathing space..This team of ours needs a good kick up the ........from time to time and he is the man to do that .Stokes did pretty well I thought but why do the wingers disappear after 45 minutes?

Ringothedog
16-09-2017, 08:07 PM
Some total roasters, certainly.

It gets on my thrupennies 😡

WhileTheChief..
16-09-2017, 08:57 PM
We're roughly where I expected us to be at this stage in the season. Could've had a few more points but generally things are going fine.

What exactly are you guys expecting? We're not gonna win every game but we're scoring goals and playing some nice stuff.

Why do you always think that someone is to blame and that a different manager would miraculously turn us into world beaters.

We've never had a manager like that in 100+ years. You think we can get one now?!

Lennon summed things up perfectly in his post match interview, like he does every week.

madhatter
16-09-2017, 09:22 PM
I'm the same. He literally can't seem to do anything wrong. He is almost God like to some on here despite his record so far with us being pass marks only.

Maybe his senior players were struggling because we had two wingers, one a kid and the other just back from injury and our two centre mids were getting completely out numbered. Maybe we struggled to defend properly because the defence is changed on a practically weekly basis. We got worse when he made substitutions, not too unusual that. There were a whole host of reasons that effected the game that he had control over. He should shoulder some of the blame. It doesn't help Cliff buttering him up saying he would have made a difference if he was on the field today. I want to see Lennon make a difference from the sidelines and today his substitutions made us worse and we never reacted to Motherwell pushing player further up the park before it was too late. We were crying out for a Dylan type player and he came on with 4 mins to go.

I see where you are coming from but experienced players should make sure the defence remains tight and that they communicate. In the lead up to their 2nd goal, we didn't have a shape and our back 4 was all over the place with experienced players diving in and ultimately taking themselves out of the play. Also, our defence has required changes - McGregor is injured, Fontaine is injured. Stevenson had a stinker against Hamilton and the team, before this game, were playing ok, so no change. We got worse when we made substitutions because we brought on the two Lithuanian lads who by all accounts look quite decent but have had limited time and I don't think they speak much/good English. They were brought on, into a team that clearly didn't communicate all day. When we had Slivka on we should've been more solid centrally but we weren't and players were working independently. I remember Stokes sprinting to close down their defender and he was backed up by...0 of his teammates. Case and point, Hibs had a counter attack with Boyle I believe, 4 players joined the attack, the rest were just about clearing our 18 yard box. I know Boyle is quick but if our defenders and a couple of midfielders are that tired they can't get up to the half way line then that is a question worth investigating. I love Bartley but he honestly struggles after the 70th min in every game I've seen him in. I see the defence overtaking him when trying to hold a high line.

Must be better at holding a decent line and also have a midfield that gets back into a reasonable defensive shape - we would be a decent team if we can do this. Communication is a big problem though, has been for years. Gray is a legend but he must be nicknamed Captain Quiet. No gritty player that tells players where to be and berates them if they aren't there. For example, after the first goal and also after their second, I think McGinn was the only player trying to spur on his team mates. The rest almost had a self-pity look about them (heads down, slowly trudging back to take kick off).

We didn't need a third goal. The players we have should've realised at 2-1 that their job was to spoil the game and grind out the result. They didn't, they treated the ball like a hot potato and there was a 15 minute spell where a Hibs pass ended at a Motherwell player's foot almost with perfect precision.

I question Lennon's ability most weeks but, and this is a big but, these players need to manage each other and themselves better. We could get the best manager in the world but without leadership and communication on a pitch it'd not be a great team. I actually think there is a few problems between certain personalities at the club, I really hope it isn't a Butcher type problem again but I've had enough of players that require hugs and "it's my fault" or the "they played really well, I have no idea why we lost 2-1" type managers. They probably loved it under Stubbs as it was either his fault or it was something that just "seemed" to happen, it was never the players' fault. Remember, Lennon berates them but also said that McGinn is worth 5 million, so in fairness to these players he talks them up as well. He expects better and so he should.

frazeHFC
16-09-2017, 09:24 PM
he hasnt been rubbish so dont talk garbage

Oh sorry forum police

HibeeDaz6270
16-09-2017, 09:38 PM
For me, i think we first of all need to get Lewis Stevenson back to left back. Stevenson, whilst getting the odd criticism on here over the years has been our most consistent player for a number of years under multiple managers. He does a job & he does it well.

We can not play a 4 man midfield with Bartley. We are putting to much emphasis on John McGinn creating everything for us & he simply can not do it all. Due to that , like today he held on to the ball too long and ran in to trouble. We need footballers in next to him to play. Dylan McGeougch HAS to play for me.

I am also a big fan of slivka, and i would look to find space for him if & when we can.

I thought Barker had a good first half today, but he did not do much in the second half like the rest of the team.

Strongest team for me & i have said the same for a while is

Whittaker/Gray . Ambroze Hanlon Stevenson
Boyle Mcgeouch Mcginn Barker/Slivka
Stokes Murray

I however would be tempted to try

Marciano
Gary Ambrose Hanlon Stevenson
Mchegouch Mcginn Slivka
Boyle Stokes Barker


Whatever we play, i think we need to get Mcgeouch in there to get on the ball & play. I like Barltley & think he does a job for us, i just find it diffiuclt to make him a first pick, especially if lennon goes with a 4 man midfield.

J-C
16-09-2017, 09:39 PM
Barker and Boyle can't play together. Leaves centre mid badly exposed. Start one and bring the other one on late in the second half. Need McGeogh back in the midfield.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:agree:

We played 4-2-4 today as Barker and Boyle were played so high up the pitch, this then exposed Bartley and McGinn who were outmanned in the middle, I'd have either McGeouch or Slivka and use Barker as an impact player off the bench with his pace.

J-C
16-09-2017, 09:45 PM
Spot on Neil. No leadership from any of his experienced players. P*** poor defending. Nothing after Motherwell scored. No game intelligence. Hibs weren't matching them physically either.

Lennon is correct when he says there's nothing he can do about all these individual errors on the pitch, but he is the one who has to ultimately take responsibility.


I disagree here, there is one thing he can do, drop players who are making mistakes and play the guys sitting on the bench, we have a squad for a reason, use the bloody thing.

Scouse Hibee
16-09-2017, 10:35 PM
Lennon took off Murray and Boyle, that removed the pace from our front line and left is with no real out ball. Clueless from Lennon.

Sammy7nil
16-09-2017, 10:40 PM
Nonsense.

Motherwell were very good today.

Motherwell were bang average until they scored a better team would have beaten us.

Iain G
16-09-2017, 10:41 PM
:agree:

We played 4-2-4 today as Barker and Boyle were played so high up the pitch, this then exposed Bartley and McGinn who were outmanned in the middle, I'd have either McGeouch or Slivka and use Barker as an impact player off the bench with his pace.

A tactic which had us 2-0 up so can't have been all that bad...

Sammy7nil
16-09-2017, 11:03 PM
Totally agree, great post.

Iys the internet driven society we seem to be in - everything is an extreme.

It seems quite clear to me that we, as a support, underestimated the step-up.

We have been three years in the lower league against teams that are slower, poorer, weaker and who gave us far more time on the ball. Both Hamilton and Motherwell more than matched us physically.

Basically as others have said, we are not as good as we think we are, and everyone else is better than we, as a collective support, habe given them credit for.

I do agree that lennon should have managed his team better at 2up, but lets not pretend for a moment that if wr had gone on full-on defensive, and killed the game for the last 30 mins, that plenty of people on here wouldnt have been complaining about negativity, not going for the throat, and that it wasnt what fans paid their money for.

Managers imo, shouldnt be overly blamed, or lauded, for individual performances, or spells in matches - their input is limited. Its best to judge them by patterns and longer periods of peformances, and so far the performances this season have been good.

It seems to me the manager and the players have under estimated the teams not the fans.

BegbieHSC
16-09-2017, 11:09 PM
Delete this thread.

Absolutely shocking patter fae some of you!

Lenny is the best manager we've had in years, and its up to the players to hold their bottle in a game like this.

Sammy7nil
16-09-2017, 11:11 PM
I always think there are a few signs to look out for when judging a Manager.

Are we organised. I saw a very good, albeit not original, free kick at the start of the second half and a good run from Hanlon, that was clearly planned, where we got a header at the back post. Apart from that we were marked tight at throw ins and gave the ball away or into bad situations regularly. We pretty much don't mark at throw ins and allow players huge amounts of space to receive the ball. We are far to far off the opposition all around the pitch. The zone system employed at set pieces allows players to run pretty much unchallenged to the back post and doesn't handle any decent ball falling inbetween the zone. Murray had the ball for our Pen, was he meant to be taking it before Stokes grabbed it. Not sure who our corner taker is as STokes decides to take them sometimes. Our defensive line is all over the place and I have no idea who is meant to be setting our line as we often have Hanlon pushing out as Effe drops in. Whittaker and SDG are often found 5 yards behind the CBs. The line can be excused a wee bit as the positions have been changed so often its no wonder they look like they hardly know each other. The first five minutes of games look like we have no game plan whatsoever and we look a complete shambles. If we have kick off we should know exactly what we are going to do for the first move of the game. We look like we make it up at the centre spot.

Heart/Bottle Bit of a mixed report card for the team on this imo. We do seem to have a bit of heart and show reasonable levels of effort but we lack leadership when the chips are down and we are more than capable of complete collapses. We also started the season pressing teams high up the park and hunting in packs but now we seem to be sitting off and giving them the freedom of Easter Road.

Tactics - I actually think the tactics in the first half would have worked brilliantly last year where we played a stuffy, boring, often hoofball style. To be fair we went 2-0 up so they were far from a disaster but Motherwell looked very dangerous today at all times and when we went 2-0 up I think I would have got an extra body in the middle of the park to keep possession better. Our subs more often than not make us worse and when we change shape it rarely seems to work. Motherwell pushed another body up top today and we completely failed to react and looked panic stricken because our shape just wasn't working.

I have the same opinion of Lennon as when he was announced. I have no idea if he will work out or not. I think a 3 year contract is a huge gamble based on his performance so far. However, we are a couple of games away from him creeping up to an above average record or a couple of games away from a bit of a crisis. At the moment we are exactly what we were last year - bang average. His signings haven't been great again but that could change as the season wears on. The one thing I do like this season, more to do with the league than Lennon, is that at least the games are interesting. This year we have also stopped playing hoofball which is a great relief. I do have a concern over the loyalty Lennon shows some players. I saw him today lose the plot at Hanlon, our best defender on the day, for playing a floated pass that we ended up getting a throw in from. It wasn't a great ball but no harm done. I watch him when Stokes makes no effort or when Whittaker looks lazy or Ambrose does something ridiculous and he doesn't get nearly as animated. He was the same with Holt last year. It was almost as if Holt was the manager at times. He seems to have huge respect for those who have had great careers. As far as I am concerned those careers are behind them and the only thing that counts is what they do at Hibs. In fact with their experience I would be more inclined to be tearing a strip off them.

To sum up we have an average manager, he is not a winner he is more of a middle drawer, overseeing an average team in an average league. I suspect we will finish in an average position, 6th or 7th, but spend a good deal more than average and have a far bigger home crowd than average. To be honest for our first season back anything that doesn't involve a relegation battle will not be a disaster. He is often said to get Hibs. Well in my 40 odd years of watching, on average we have been an under-performing team, rarely well organised, often a bit soft in the centre and very inconsistent, we have the occasional dazzling display and some truly awful ones. In Lennon's time he has certainly proved he gets Hibs.

Good post agree with almost everything but dont say Stokes is anything other than a very good football player

Sammy7nil
16-09-2017, 11:16 PM
Answering a question is not reminiscing.
Hibs and Lennon do not control what questions the media ask him.

I don’t think Hibs pre match press conferences should be spent talking about Celtic but I prefer to blame those actually responsible for the questions instead of Neil Lennon.

They do control what they answer :cb

GreenOnions
16-09-2017, 11:42 PM
:agree:
We played 4-2-4 today as Barker and Boyle were played so high up the pitch, this then exposed Bartley and McGinn who were outmanned in the middle, I'd have either McGeouch or Slivka and use Barker as an impact player off the bench with his pace.

Apart from individual errors I think this was our main problem today. As the second half progressed McGinn and Bartley were struggling against superior numbers in the middle of the park.

If we play two wingers the guys in the centre have to be able to take care of the ball. They found it more and more difficult to keep possession as the game wore on and the Motherwell attacks kept coming for around twenty minutes.

I thought McGeouch and particularly Slivka made a difference when they came on as they provided some extra ability with the ball at their feet and we steadied the ship a fair bit after their second.

I think we need the quality on the ball that both Slivka and McGeouch can offer and at least one of them needs to be in the team every week - particularly at home. Personally - I'd have McGinn, McGeouch and Slivka starting in every home game with Boyle, Swanson or Barker further forward. Big Marv would be more useful if we're away from home I feel.

Sammy7nil
16-09-2017, 11:46 PM
Apart from individual errors I think this was our main problem today. As the second half progressed McGinn and Bartley were struggling against superior numbers in the middle of the park.

If we play two wingers the guys in the centre have to be able to take care of the ball. They found it more and more difficult to keep possession as the game wore on and the Motherwell attacks kept coming for around twenty minutes.

I thought McGeouch and particularly Slivka made a difference when they came on as they provided some extra ability with the ball at their feet and we steadied the ship a fair bit after their second.

I think we need the quality on the ball that both Slivka and McGeouch can offer and at least one of them needs to be in the team every week - particularly at home. Personally - I'd have McGinn, McGeouch and Slivka starting in every home game with Boyle, Swanson or Barker further forward. Big Marv would be more useful if we're away from home I feel.

Slivka was poor when he came on he and indeed all the subs had NO impact, unlike the Motherwell sub who made bothe thier goals.

Forza Fred
16-09-2017, 11:58 PM
I think a few fans are beginning to realise that we aren't as good as they'd like to think. Especially at the back.

:top marks

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
17-09-2017, 12:00 AM
It seems to me the manager and the players have under estimated the teams not the fans.

Dont worry, i posted the same on the Hibs players and manager's messageboard too...

tamig
17-09-2017, 12:01 AM
He doesn't know his best team as yet and it's killing us.

Defensively were are absolutely woeful. Seriously bad.

Motherwell can count themselves unlucky they didn't walk away with all three.

As for Barker ? This is the big league pal. Get used to it.
FFS. Get a grip man. Shocking post.

Basildon Hibs
17-09-2017, 12:11 AM
Delete this thread.

Absolutely shocking patter fae some of you!

Lenny is the best manager we've had in years, and its up to the players to hold their bottle in a game like this.


FFS !. What is it with you Petrie Apologist's? You don't like it so 'delete the thread' pish pops up.

Grow a set and debate with the people who have different views from you. :partyhibb

BegbieHSC
17-09-2017, 12:21 AM
FFS !. What is it with you Petrie Apologist's? You don't like it so 'delete the thread' pish pops up.

Grow a set and debate with the people who have different views from you. :partyhibb

Petrie apologist? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Jeezo! This has to go up as one of the radgest posts of the night.

Think you'll find i'm the opposite mate! I think SOME are very quick to turn the panic button on however, and are making some outrageous comments about Lennon. I've even saw some criticise the singing section for the banner putting the players off/having a negative impact on atmosphere! So many radges tonight.

Lets face it - the players thought the game was up at 2-0 and stopped. Move on!

Basildon Hibs
17-09-2017, 12:46 AM
Lets face it - the players thought the game was up at 2-0 and stopped. Move on!

Why break with tradition...? :wink:

Captain Trips
17-09-2017, 12:55 AM
Everyone on here would have picked SJM to start he was not good enough today for one.

NL yeah has made and will make mistakes but some of that passing today was a disgrace. Defenders and midfield for me are not making the mark I believe they are capable of.

They never scored from it but what were they doing in first half just after we scored Moult had the freedom of Edinburgh from a corner.

If players had managed to do the basics right then we would have 3pts. If your going to fail to make passes or make the wrong choice you will get caught out. On NL I think the balance of the team isn't right and it is up to him but even so if folk can't pass the balance is irrelevant.

pacoluna
17-09-2017, 01:29 AM
I'm getting a little tired of Lennon taking the plaudits when we win but being quite slow to hold his hands up when we don't win. We saw it last season and we're seeing it again now.

If he was to say "I got the substitutions wrong today - we could have played a lot better on the pitch but we lost our shape in the latter half of the game" etc. in the press then I'd respect him a lot more.

How exactly did he get the substitutions wrong?

Phil MaGlass
17-09-2017, 04:54 AM
How exactly did he get the substitutions wrong?

Mibbe the giveaway scoreline 2-2 might have given it away??

lucky
17-09-2017, 05:07 AM
Lennon was not at fault today our players are not as good as we think they are. If I was going to criticise Lennon over anything it would be leaving the two wingers on as long as he did. At the end of the day we are finding this league a lot tougher than most thought it would be.

Hulk1875
17-09-2017, 05:19 AM
Lennon was not at fault today our players are not as good as we think they are. If I was going to criticise Lennon over anything it would be leaving the two wingers on as long as he did. At the end of the day we are finding this league a lot tougher than most thought it would be.

Spot on here

Hulk1875
17-09-2017, 05:29 AM
2 wins 3 draws 1 loss not a bad start for a team that's been in a lower division for 3 seasons. Probably could have got wins from 2 of the draws but we're in a much harder league, as I said yesterday we'll finish the season strongly we've done ok so far we can only grow into this league we'll find our best team, put expectation is very high because we have beaten premier league teams over the last 3 years but those games were "cup" games,

MacGruber
17-09-2017, 06:45 AM
Lennon was not at fault today our players are not as good as we think they are. If I was going to criticise Lennon over anything it would be leaving the two wingers on as long as he did. At the end of the day we are finding this league a lot tougher than most thought it would be.

I think he was though in respect of Whittaker left back. If he was poor on the day fair enough but he was poor pre viously and should have been dropped. Also Dylan or Slivka should have started. At least have come on after 2-0.
All poor decisions from Neil. If he called those right I think we might have won

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
17-09-2017, 07:02 AM
Lennon was not at fault today our players are not as good as we think they are. If I was going to criticise Lennon over anything it would be leaving the two wingers on as long as he did. At the end of the day we are finding this league a lot tougher than most thought it would be.

Concise anf to the point!

But equally, we were only bad luck / bad finishing away from another two wins. People need to calm doon.

Reaper
17-09-2017, 07:39 AM
I think there is the argument that Boyle and Barker both playing leaves centre mid very exposed. What I would say is yesterday I'd have swapped them. I don't think Barker actually works on the left as Stokesy naturally drifts out there, as he always has done but I noticed Barker didn't go inside him 3 or 4 times when we had the possession leaving Murray very isolated and if possession was lost left a centre half with all the time in the world to come out with the ball.

I think Boyler on the left would drift more naturally inside when Stokes comes left and keep the shape better and more fluid. That then gives their defence more to think about when marking.

Yesterday was was a funny one. I didn't think we were particularly bad but not great either. There's no explanation for Rocky at the 1st. I've never seen a Goalie follow a cross with his arms at his waist before and strangely he looks nervous, yet last year he was pretty solid. I'm not Hanlons biggest fan but I think him and Efe both prefer playing with the ball at their feet and like coming out. The problem is they haven't worked out when one does it, the other has to sit and we end up chasing the ball time and again.

I didnt think many got great marks yesterday, but a couple of individual errors aside we were going to pick up 3 points without playing our best. Stuff to work on yes, still plenty to be positive about. We're 6th and keeping up with the pack. I'm confident we'll only get better.

MacGruber
17-09-2017, 08:35 AM
I think a few fans are beginning to realise that we aren't as good as they'd like to think. Especially at the back.

That's just it. It's not the same defence. Defence was solid, it wasn't broken but we tried to fix it. Brought in 2 in Whittaker and Ambrose that are now 1st choice - not through merit with Whittaker playing out of position. I accept there has been injuries but we've made our own changes and unsettled a consistent unit

Heisenberg
17-09-2017, 08:40 AM
That's just it. It's not the same defence. Defence was solid, it wasn't broken but we tried to fix it. Brought in 2 in Whittaker and Ambrose that are now 1st choice - not through merit with Whittaker playing out of position. I accept there has been injuries but we've made our own changes and unsettled a consistent unit

I think there's an argument for our defence being more solid last season/seasons before because of the league we were in. Aberdeen in the cup showed up our frailties last season. Ambrose and Hanlon need to get better quickly along with Whittaker/Stevenson/Gray.

Teams in the championship weren't good enough to get at us regularly. In this league the likes of Moult will punish us.

MacGruber
17-09-2017, 08:50 AM
I think there's an argument for our defence being more solid last season/seasons before because of the league we were in. Aberdeen in the cup showed up our frailties last season. Ambrose and Hanlon need to get better quickly along with Whittaker/Stevenson/Gray.

Teams in the championship weren't good enough to get at us regularly. In this league the likes of Moult will punish us.

You may be right.

However most of the problem for me has been with Ambrose and Whittaker inparticular. Not that the others have been without poor performances just these 2 caught out the most, by a distance and a distabalising affect on the rest. Plus the change to 2 wingers putting more strain on centre mid and in turn defence.

Easy to say Aberdeen game showed up frailties. We weren't frail in 8 or 9 other games though against top flight clubs, including Aberdeen.

neil7908
17-09-2017, 08:57 AM
I think there's an argument for our defence being more solid last season/seasons before because of the league we were in. Aberdeen in the cup showed up our frailties last season. Ambrose and Hanlon need to get better quickly along with Whittaker/Stevenson/Gray.

Teams in the championship weren't good enough to get at us regularly. In this league the likes of Moult will punish us.

I suspect Lewis will be back next week but I don't think that'll be enough. We're really struggling against the better teams in this division and I think our issues are all over the pitch.

Our forwards aren't clicking together and finding it very hard to keep hold of the ball.

The midfield are looking increasingly exposed with only McGinn today able to try and create going forward - and the can't do it all himself.

I still don't think we're a bad team but I think there is a period of adjustment going on. A mid table finish wouldn't be the worst thing in the world but I think we all hoped for more.

This is a chance for the manager to show that all this "born winner" stuff actually means something.

WhileTheChief..
17-09-2017, 08:59 AM
For years folk have been crying out for us to play with two quick wingers yet ass soon as we do it and drop points the manager's to blame.

Everyone has amazing hindsight after every bad result telling us exactly how Lennon should have set the team up. Not one of you came on here before the match saying what the formation should be.

Why not tell us now what he should do for the Livi game then you can come back on and say told you so.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
17-09-2017, 09:08 AM
That's just it. It's not the same defence. Defence was solid, it wasn't broken but we tried to fix it. Brought in 2 in Whittaker and Ambrose that are now 1st choice - not through merit with Whittaker playing out of position. I accept there has been injuries but we've made our own changes and unsettled a consistent unit

Gray and McGregor were both suspended at start of season, amd now McGregor is injured.

SeanWilson
17-09-2017, 09:37 AM
For years folk have been crying out for us to play with two quick wingers yet ass soon as we do it and drop points the manager's to blame.

Everyone has amazing hindsight after every bad result telling us exactly how Lennon should have set the team up. Not one of you came on here before the match saying what the formation should be.

Why not tell us now what he should do for the Livi game then you can come back on and say told you so.

OK - id go back to a straight forward 442 for livi. Stevenson, Hanlon, Porteous, Gray, Boyle, McGinn, Mcgeuch, Slivka, Stokes, big Davey. I'd also be inclined to start Laidlaw as Rocky looked suspect yesterday.

The Harp Awakes
17-09-2017, 09:38 AM
The main problem yesterday wasn't Neil Lennon. The main problem was our goalkeeper didn't deal with a basic cross ball and we conceded the softest of goals when we were 2-0 up and cruising. He catches the ball and in all likelihood we win the game comfortably, everyone on here would be patting themselves on the back, praising the team and this thread wouldn't exist.

emerald green
17-09-2017, 09:41 AM
I disagree here, there is one thing he can do, drop players who are making mistakes and play the guys sitting on the bench, we have a squad for a reason, use the bloody thing.

Yep, I agree with what you're saying, but I think what NL was trying to say was no matter who he picks to play there's nothing any manager can do to prevent rank bad defending and poor all round team play like yesterday (or against Hamilton recently too).

All players make mistakes occasionally. That's a given. But it was the disintegration of the team from a position of leading 2-0 at home that is the worry for me. Lennon mentions leadership on the pitch. He's bang on there. That's something that looked to be lacking all over the pitch. That, plus a lack of nous and composure on the ball. Hibs were fortunate to be 2-0 up and the players should have the nous and ability to go on to kill the game from there. Instead, they were all over the place.

I just get the sense that if the roles were reversed and Motherwell had been 2-0 up against Hibs at Fir Park there would not have been a similar result to the match.

GreenOnions
17-09-2017, 09:56 AM
Slivka was poor when he came on he and indeed all the subs had NO impact, unlike the Motherwell sub who made both the goals.

What a load of nonsense. He came on at a time when we were literally all over the place just before their second goal. Difficult to make the same impact as their sub who came on when when Motherwell were dominant and we were ragged.

Bearing in mind the situation when Slivka came on it took him a few minutes to show but, to me, his ability to look after the football was just what McGinn needed beside him in the middle and helped us get a grip in the last twenty. IMHO if it wasn't for his (and McGeouch's) introduction we would have lost that game.

Captain Trips
17-09-2017, 09:57 AM
Some players let us down yesterday players I would have picked so therefore if NL got it wrong so did I. Players made mistakes yesterday and are culpable for the dropping of 2pts.

At the start of this season I stated that I thought our defensive options were the best in many many years, I have to say I have been concerned about the room and chances being presented over the weeks.

I read out this squad and it has challenging for 2nd all over it but the reality THUS FAR is to many basics are not being done.

broondog
17-09-2017, 09:59 AM
Delete this thread.

Absolutely shocking patter fae some of you!

Lenny is the best manager we've had in years, and its up to the players to hold their bottle in a game like this.

Best manager in years, laughable statement. Stubbs achieved far more with worse players in what was a more difficult first division. Said it when Lennon arrived that he is still relatively untested and has a pretty poor managerial record to date. I think there were better candidates. Yesterday proved he isn't able to get the best out of our current squad which on paper is the 3rd best in Scotland. Not calling for him to go but it's hugely concerning and people are correctly pointing that out

Iain G
17-09-2017, 10:02 AM
Best manager in years, laughable statement. Stubbs achieved far more with worse players in what was a more difficult first division. Said it when Lennon arrived that he is still relatively untested and has a pretty poor managerial record to date. I think there were better candidates. Yesterday proved he isn't able to get the best out of our current squad which on paper is the 3rd best in Scotland. Not calling for him to go but it's hugely concerning and people are correctly pointing that out

Here come the told you so brigade!!!

We are sixth and have lost one game so far in the league, it was always going to take time and the good start we had lulled us into a false sense of ease perhaps, there is no need to panic or start a witch hunt this early into the season.

JimboHibs
17-09-2017, 10:16 AM
I think there is the argument that Boyle and Barker both playing leaves centre mid very exposed. What I would say is yesterday I'd have swapped them. I don't think Barker actually works on the left as Stokesy naturally drifts out there, as he always has done but I noticed Barker didn't go inside him 3 or 4 times when we had the possession leaving Murray very isolated and if possession was lost left a centre half with all the time in the world to come out with the ball.

I think Boyler on the left would drift more naturally inside when Stokes comes left and keep the shape better and more fluid. That then gives their defence more to think about when marking.

Yesterday was was a funny one. I didn't think we were particularly bad but not great either. There's no explanation for Rocky at the 1st. I've never seen a Goalie follow a cross with his arms at his waist before and strangely he looks nervous, yet last year he was pretty solid. I'm not Hanlons biggest fan but I think him and Efe both prefer playing with the ball at their feet and like coming out. The problem is they haven't worked out when one does it, the other has to sit and we end up chasing the ball time and again.

I didnt think many got great marks yesterday, but a couple of individual errors aside we were going to pick up 3 points without playing our best. Stuff to work on yes, still plenty to be positive about. We're 6th and keeping up with the pack. I'm confident we'll only get better.

Totally agree with the judgement on our defence both very similar tough call though with McGregor injured we really need a CH who's more physical I honestly think Hanlon has it to be much more physical but for whatever reason doesn't give it I reckon I've seen more strength from Porteous in his fee games than both Hanlon & Ambrose,is it time for Ryan to get his chance ?? Because I think we're powderpuff at CH

BoomtownHibees
17-09-2017, 10:28 AM
Best manager in years, laughable statement. Stubbs achieved far more with worse players in what was a more difficult first division. Said it when Lennon arrived that he is still relatively untested and has a pretty poor managerial record to date. I think there were better candidates. Yesterday proved he isn't able to get the best out of our current squad which on paper is the 3rd best in Scotland. Not calling for him to go but it's hugely concerning and people are correctly pointing that out

Your argument about a more difficult first division does nothing to really backup your argument as Stubbs failed to get us out of it after 2 attempts. He will always be a legend for the cup win however Neil Lennon achieved the primary target at the first time of asking.

Who were these "better candidates" you speak of?

WhileTheChief..
17-09-2017, 10:29 AM
OK - id go back to a straight forward 442 for livi. Stevenson, Hanlon, Porteous, Gray, Boyle, McGinn, Mcgeuch, Slivka, Stokes, big Davey. I'd also be inclined to start Laidlaw as Rocky looked suspect yesterday.

And if he plays this team and doesn't win everyone will say he should never have dropped Murray, Ambrose should be in and Barker should've started!

What if Laidlaw has a howler? Would that be Lennon's fault?

What if big Dave misses a sitter? Would that be Lennon's fault?

It's no really that easy.

Baldy Foghorn
17-09-2017, 10:51 AM
And if he plays this team and doesn't win everyone will say he should never have dropped Murray, Ambrose should be in and Barker should've started!

What if Laidlaw has a howler? Would that be Lennon's fault?

What if big Dave misses a sitter? Would that be Lennon's fault?

It's no really that easy.

It's difficult when senior players, are not doing what is being asked of them. Too many not at it yesterday......

greenpaper55
17-09-2017, 10:52 AM
It's odd that we look a better team away from home and controll games for longer periods, i don't think there is a lot of difference between teams in our league apart from Celtic. Most teams are built from the cast offs from other leagues and you are lucky if you find a few gems amongst the dross, it could be worse, we could be getting beaten instead of the continual draws so no need to despair just yet.

Beefster
17-09-2017, 11:07 AM
Best manager in years, laughable statement. Stubbs achieved far more with worse players in what was a more difficult first division. Said it when Lennon arrived that he is still relatively untested and has a pretty poor managerial record to date. I think there were better candidates. Yesterday proved he isn't able to get the best out of our current squad which on paper is the 3rd best in Scotland. Not calling for him to go but it's hugely concerning and people are correctly pointing that out

I keep reading horse**** like that. I suspect believing it is why the more unrealistic and hysterical members of our support are panicking now.

Sammy7nil
17-09-2017, 11:08 AM
OK - id go back to a straight forward 442 for livi. Stevenson, Hanlon, Porteous, Gray, Boyle, McGinn, Mcgeuch, Slivka, Stokes, big Davey. I'd also be inclined to start Laidlaw as Rocky looked suspect yesterday.

That is easy to say, you wont be proved wrong because that number of changes wont happen. P. S. Big Da ey looks a million miles away from a start.

Danderhall Hibs
17-09-2017, 11:10 AM
I keep reading horse**** like that. I suspect believing it is why the more unrealistic and hysterical members of our support are panicking now.

:agree: expectations were too high for too many of us which is creating some of the posts we're seeing on here now imo.

LaMotta
17-09-2017, 11:13 AM
I keep reading horse**** like that. I suspect believing it is why the more unrealistic and hysterical members of our support are panicking now.

:agree: Indeed. A laughable statement some might say.

Sammy7nil
17-09-2017, 11:16 AM
What a load of nonsense. He came on at a time when we were literally all over the place just before their second goal. Difficult to make the same impact as their sub who came on when when Motherwell were dominant and we were ragged.

Bearing in mind the situation when Slivka came on it took him a few minutes to show but, to me, his ability to look after the football was just what McGinn needed beside him in the middle and helped us get a grip in the last twenty. IMHO if it wasn't for his (and McGeouch's) introduction we would have lost that game.

Eh! Motherwell were dominant? They were two down and looked hopless until their subs changed the game. Our subs made No impact infact we got worse. After Motherwell scored we never looked like scoring or making a chance. Two Stokes efforts from distance was all we could muster. Now I am not blaming Slivka or McGeoch but the fact is they could not turn the tide and we looked more like losing the game than winning it.

Hibernia&Alba
17-09-2017, 11:21 AM
Delete this thread.

Absolutely shocking patter fae some of you!

Lenny is the best manager we've had in years, and its up to the players to hold their bottle in a game like this.

I agree. How often will we have a manager who has won three SPL titles? Lennon isn't above criticism - I also think he made a mess of the substitutions yesterday - but let's not go overboard on the back of losing a two goal lead. Motherwell deserve credit for the way they played.

NAE NOOKIE
17-09-2017, 11:27 AM
For me the problem does seem to be that NL doesn't know his best team ..... hell, at the moment I don't know our best team.

As for yesterday I don't actually think too many players had bad games so much as collectively we once again totally lost our shape at times and our tactics allowed Motherwell to swamp us in midfield.

Having said that I'm going to look at some things around some individual players and situations, some of them Neil correctly highlighted after the game, some he seems to have missed or ignored.

Rocky ...... WTF has happened to him? .. he seems totally unable to command his box and was badly at fault for their first, he will soon be looking over his shoulder at Laidlaw if he doesn't sharpen up.

Whittaker .... I have been unconvinced since the season started and yesterday did his cause no good whatsoever, Motherwell should have scored when an unmarked player on his side missed a sitter with a header, they then went on to hit the bar on his side of the box and where was he at their first goal, once again scored on his side ..... defensively he seems all over the place and if we are going to play a winger on that side I would much rather see Lewis at left back who is clearly a better defender.

McGinn ..... He had a poor game yesterday, but is it any surprise when he is being asked to do everything in what is little better than a two man midfield and where he is having to pick up the ball in the middle of his own half most of the time?

Barker .... Very good in the first half, but after 65 minutes it was clear to a blind man that he was toiling, so much so that at one point he didn't chase down a ball near the Motherwell byline and got pelters from the FF and East for it ... I would have hooked him then.

Slivka ..... What does this guy have to do to make the starting line up? ... he looks a quality player every time he comes on, as he did yesterday, and yet he warms the bench every week.

McGeouch .... Same as Slivka, probably the best player at the club and we are bringing him on with 4 minutes to go?

Motherwell's equaliser ...... WTF was that??? .... I thought I was seeing things when they were allowed to take a throw in practically level with our 18 yard box and find a player totally unmarked, pub league defending.

I could go on and on ..... but its starting to come down to this for me ...... screw all this messing about, play a basic formation and do it with our best and most solid players, at least those that are available.

442

Marciano ( Laidlaw if he doesn't sharpen up )

Gray .... Ambrose .... Hanlon .... Stevenson

Boyle ... Slivka ... McGinn ... McGeouch

Murray .... Stokes

Screw fancy formations and worrying about what the opposition can do .... that's a team full of footballers and forward thinking players, all of whom have dig about them as well.

emerald green
17-09-2017, 11:55 AM
Have a look at Marciano and Whittaker in this photo. :rolleyes:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/competitions/premiership/hibs-2-2-motherwell-louis-moult-hits-double-to-earn-point-1-4562063

broondog
17-09-2017, 11:56 AM
I keep reading horse**** like that. I suspect believing it is why the more unrealistic and hysterical members of our support are panicking now.

It's horse**** that you don't see the quality we have on the park. Outside of Celtic and Aberdeen who is stronger then?

emerald green
17-09-2017, 11:58 AM
I keep reading horse**** like that. I suspect believing it is why the more unrealistic and hysterical members of our support are panicking now.

:agree: It doesn't matter how good people think a squad is on paper. It's how good they are on grass! Week in week out. That's what counts.

Eyrie
17-09-2017, 12:04 PM
I agree. How often will we have a manager who has won three SPL titles? Lennon isn't above criticism - I also think he made a mess of the substitutions yesterday - but let's not go overboard on the back of losing a two goal lead. Motherwell deserve credit for the way they played.
Those titles were won at Celtc with the benefit of the massive disparity in financial resources that they have. It's a bit like saying Rodgers is a crap manager based on the PGS result.

I'm still pleased that Lennon signed an extension, because I've warmed to him as our manager, but that won't stop me questioning him when things aren't going well.

J-C
17-09-2017, 12:07 PM
Have a look at Marciano and Whittaker in this photo. :rolleyes:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/competitions/premiership/hibs-2-2-motherwell-louis-moult-hits-double-to-earn-point-1-4562063


Whittaker has lost him and struggling to challenge, Marciano just looks like he's attempting to block the header after being exposed again at the back due to poor defending. Deffo Whittaker's fault, caught the wrong side of Moult and therefore can't challenge for the ball, a free header at the back post.

heretoday
17-09-2017, 12:09 PM
I don't think our squad is that good. We're gonna get absolutely biffed once day soon - probably by Celtic, hopefully not by Hearts.

cleanyman
17-09-2017, 12:17 PM
Slivka is total quality.

He had a stormer at Ibrox then plays at Dundee and for some reason gets dropped against Saints and Motherwell

What's that all about ?

Sooner Lennon gets this sorted the better.

ionahibby
17-09-2017, 12:20 PM
So basically 2 players hibs and hearts were squabbling over, Whittaker and lafferty have been bang on average. Marciano as well. Early days so hopefully things will improve. Though positive being we are at least picking up points which will be important towards the end of the season.

Heisenberg
17-09-2017, 12:38 PM
Slivka is total quality.

He had a stormer at Ibrox then plays at Dundee and for some reason gets dropped against Saints and Motherwell

What's that all about ?

Sooner Lennon gets this sorted the better.

Took Lennon a long time last season to settle on a first 11. Looks like the same is happening again here.

Stevie Reid
17-09-2017, 01:02 PM
I'm getting a little tired of Lennon taking the plaudits when we win but being quite slow to hold his hands up when we don't win. We saw it last season and we're seeing it again now.

If he was to say "I got the substitutions wrong today - we could have played a lot better on the pitch but we lost our shape in the latter half of the game" etc. in the press then I'd respect him a lot more.

He said in his interview yesterday that he took the brunt of responsibility for the result.

Stevie Reid
17-09-2017, 01:31 PM
Eh! Motherwell were dominant? They were two down and looked hopless until their subs changed the game. Our subs made No impact infact we got worse. After Motherwell scored we never looked like scoring or making a chance. Two Stokes efforts from distance was all we could muster. Now I am not blaming Slivka or McGeoch but the fact is they could not turn the tide and we looked more like losing the game than winning it.

Motherwell looked hopeless until they scored? Total nonsense, they were a threat the whole game, moved the ball well and missed two great chances in the first half.

Sammy7nil
17-09-2017, 02:57 PM
Motherwell looked hopeless until they scored? Total nonsense, they were a threat the whole game, moved the ball well and missed two great chances in the first half.

Possibly over stated when i said hopless but honestly at two nil did you think they had any chance of getting a result? Hibs were never under any real pressure in the second half until they made a sub and got a soft goal from a set piece.

Stevie Reid
17-09-2017, 03:02 PM
Possibly over stated when i said hopless but honestly at two nil did you think they had any chance of getting a result? Hibs were never under any real pressure in the second half until they made a sub and got a soft goal from a set piece.

I didn't feel comfortable at two nil, and neither did anyone around us. Motherwell had carried a threat all game, and one of the best strikers in the league in Moult had already missed two great chances. I didn't fancy our chances of keeping a clean sheet, and once Motherwell scored, their tails were up. With the momentum as it was a 2-2, I would've taken a point right then.

I was very impressed with Motherwell, thought they played some good stuff, were very robust physically, and moved the ball quickly and cleverly. I also thought their goalkeeper's distribution was excellent, he started numerous attacks for them.

It's also interesting that having won three in a row, their manager had said that yesterday was their best performance of the season.

wookie70
17-09-2017, 03:08 PM
He said in his interview yesterday that he took the brunt of responsibility for the result.

He was hugely critical of the team and individual players. He lambasted the players poor decision making, lack of discipline, (rich coming from him) giving away free kicks etc and was clear that it was not a reflection on him and then he took responsibility without saying he did anything wrong.

He is very quick to strike out and incredibly sensitive and reactive if you ask me. I wish he would tone it down a wee bit and be a bit more measured and thoughtful. Today I thought we were a reflection of our manager in many ways. Unpredictable, lacking discipline, indecisive, not taking responsibility and perhaps thinking we are better than we are. We actually needed some of Lennon's playing qualities yesterday. We were too slow to stick the foot in and lacked effort and leadership. Lennon the player was top trump for those qualities.

Sammy7nil
17-09-2017, 03:13 PM
I didn't feel comfortable at two nil, and neither did anyone around us. Motherwell had carried a threat all game, and one of the best strikers in the league in Moult had already missed two great chances. I didn't fancy our chances of keeping a clean sheet, and once Motherwell scored, their tails were up. With the momentum as it was a 2-2, I would've taken a point right then.

I was very impressed with Motherwell, thought they played some good stuff, were very robust physically, and moved the ball quickly and cleverly. I also thought their goalkeeper's distribution was excellent, he started numerous attacks for them.

It's also interesting that having won three in a row, their manager had said that yesterday was their best performance of the season.

Funny everyone around me thought Motherwell were robust and played very little football. No one would want to see them play on regular basis as they were not good to watch. I do agree after they scored they were much better and a little unlucky not to win. I dont know if that was great Motherwell play or Hibs just fell completley out the game. But at two nil no one around me thought they were coming back and if Hibs had any composure they would not have been able to come back.

Stevie Reid
17-09-2017, 03:32 PM
He was hugely critical of the team and individual players. He lambasted the players poor decision making, lack of discipline, (rich coming from him) giving away free kicks etc and was clear that it was not a reflection on him and then he took responsibility without saying he did anything wrong.

He is very quick to strike out and incredibly sensitive and reactive if you ask me. I wish he would tone it down a wee bit and be a bit more measured and thoughtful. Today I thought we were a reflection of our manager in many ways. Unpredictable, lacking discipline, indecisive, not taking responsibility and perhaps thinking we are better than we are. We actually needed some of Lennon's playing qualities yesterday. We were too slow to stick the foot in and lacked effort and leadership. Lennon the player was top trump for those qualities.

I know he did, but I was responding to a poster who stated that he didn't take responsibility.

It's his job to manage them as he sees fit, and if he feels the need to give such a brutal assessment, so be it. Time will tell if it is the right one.

He's been full of praise for the players after the away draws at Dundee and Saints. I see no imbalance in praise vs criticism, or how vociferous it is.

Stevie Reid
17-09-2017, 03:36 PM
Funny everyone around me thought Motherwell were robust and played very little football. No one would want to see them play on regular basis as they were not good to watch. I do agree after they scored they were much better and a little unlucky not to win. I dont know if that was great Motherwell play or Hibs just fell completley out the game. But at two nil no one around me thought they were coming back and if Hibs had any composure they would not have been able to come back.

Fair enough. My group of five and another four that we spoke to after the game were all very impressed with Motherwell. I don't really see how anyone could say that they played little football though.

I thought it was a vey entertaining game, involving two teams trying to attack and win the game. A long way away from what we've seen the last three seasons.

JK Rolling
17-09-2017, 04:03 PM
Fair enough. My group of five and another four that we spoke to after the game were all very impressed with Motherwell. I don't really see how anyone could say that they played little football though.

I thought it was a vey entertaining game, involving two teams trying to attack and win the game. A long way away from what we've seen the last three seasons.


100% Correct.

MacGruber
17-09-2017, 04:06 PM
The main problem yesterday wasn't Neil Lennon. The main problem was our goalkeeper didn't deal with a basic cross ball and we conceded the softest of goals when we were 2-0 up and cruising. He catches the ball and in all likelihood we win the game comfortably, everyone on here would be patting themselves on the back, praising the team and this thread wouldn't exist.

Can't agree. Rocky catches the ball it stays nil nil at that point. Then they would have scored 2 other goals. Their goals were always coming. We were never cruising, even at 2 up. Only Motherwell will know how they only ended up scoring 2

SeanWilson
17-09-2017, 04:08 PM
Fair enough. My group of five and another four that we spoke to after the game were all very impressed with Motherwell. I don't really see how anyone could say that they played little football though.

I thought it was a vey entertaining game, involving two teams trying to attack and win the game. A long way away from what we've seen the last three seasons.
Exactly how me and our lot seen it and pretty much mirrors the after match synopsis down the pub.

MacGruber
17-09-2017, 04:11 PM
For years folk have been crying out for us to play with two quick wingers yet ass soon as we do it and drop points the manager's to blame.

Everyone has amazing hindsight after every bad result telling us exactly how Lennon should have set the team up. Not one of you came on here before the match saying what the formation should be.

Why not tell us now what he should do for the Livi game then you can come back on and say told you so.

It's hardly hindsight. Whittaker isn't a left full back. He is a right back. Play Stevenson behind the winger.

Play 3 central if 2 wingers, 1 up top. 4 forwards leaves centre mid and shaky defence vulnerable especially with 1 kamikaze centre half and the left back posted missing.

If you want Murray and Stokes up front go 3 at the back or play with one out and out winger

Beefster
17-09-2017, 04:38 PM
It's horse**** that you don't see the quality we have on the park. Outside of Celtic and Aberdeen who is stronger then?

Rangers for a start and it's ****ing nuts to pretend otherwise. Add in St Johnstone who have been performing consistently for years in the top league.

We, on the other hand, have a squad the majority of whom weren't exactly blowing away Championship sides over the past couple of seasons. But aye, three seasons in the Championship and we should be coming up and finishing third...

Sammy7nil
17-09-2017, 04:43 PM
Rangers for a start and it's ****ing nuts to pretend otherwise. Add in St Johnstone who have been performing consistently for years in the top league.

We, on the other hand, have a squad the majority of whom weren't exactly blowing away Championship sides over the past couple of seasons. But aye, three seasons in the Championship and we should be coming up and finishing third...

We have added four or five players to the Championship squad and our manager has said on more than one occasion he expects Hibs to be challenging at the top end of the league.

Beefster
17-09-2017, 04:50 PM
We have added four or five players to the Championship squad and our manager has said on more than one occasion he expects Hibs to be challenging at the top end of the league.

We've added Stokes, a decent SPL level player from a top team, a 33 year old Scotland internationalist, a championship striker who blew hot and cold at a worse team than us and two Lithuanians, one of whom in particular looks a player. We lost Cummings and Fyvie.

By my reckoning, that elevates our squad from a good Championship side to mid-table Premiership at best. Lennon could say the moon was made of cheese but I'd still think critically for myself and come to my own conclusion. Does anyone actually take what he says and just swallow it unedited?

G B Young
17-09-2017, 05:06 PM
We've added Stokes, a decent SPL level player from a top team, a 33 year old Scotland internationalist, a championship striker who blew hot and cold at a worse team than us and two Lithuanians, one of whom in particular looks a player. We lost Cummings and Fyvie.

By my reckoning, that elevates our squad from a good Championship side to mid-table Premiership at best. Lennon could say the moon was made of cheese but I'd still think critically for myself and come to my own conclusion. Does anyone actually take what he says and just swallow it unedited?

The vast majority of fans were thrilled by our transfer window activity, myself included. Swanson may need time to adjust to the different pressures of playing for Hibs as opposed to St Johnstone (it would be wrong to say the pressure isn't greater) but I was very pleased we signed him. Stokes is a terrific signing and for me Ambrose was a bit of a coup too. Slivka was getting rave reviews for his early season appearances and Big Dave needs more game time before serious judgement can be made. Last time I looked Simon Murray was still top scorer in Scotland. Rocky has a lot more to do than he did last season but for me he's a decent keeper. Whittaker I wasn't sure we needed but with injuries already kicking in his versatility will be no bad thing.

I think Lennon gets the balance right with his comments. He was full of praise for the displays at McDiarmid and Dens and quite rightly put the boot in yesterday.

GreenOnions
17-09-2017, 05:06 PM
Eh! Motherwell were dominant? They were two down and looked hopless until their subs changed the game. Our subs made No impact infact we got worse. After Motherwell scored we never looked like scoring or making a chance. Two Stokes efforts from distance was all we could muster. Now I am not blaming Slivka or McGeoch but the fact is they could not turn the tide and we looked more like losing the game than winning it.
Most folk seem to agree that Motherwell played quite well and were quite unlucky to be two down.

Although their first goal was the result of a howling error from Marciano I don't think it was a huge surprise to many that they'd scored. They had looked increasingly likely to do so IMHO for a while before that and we then became more raggex after that.

My point about Slivka and McGeouch was simply that, although we still didn't look like scoring after they came on, they steadied a sinking ship and stopped us losing the game

Hibernia&Alba
17-09-2017, 05:14 PM
Rangers for a start and it's ****ing nuts to pretend otherwise. Add in St Johnstone who have been performing consistently for years in the top league.

We, on the other hand, have a squad the majority of whom weren't exactly blowing away Championship sides over the past couple of seasons. But aye, three seasons in the Championship and we should be coming up and finishing third...

We deservedly beat Rangers on their own pitch. Celtic aside, the rest of the teams are all capable of beating each other on any given day and consistency will be the key: grinding out results in a way we were unable to do yesterday. We will all take points from each other, and if we learn from games like yesterday, top three is possible. Then again, we could end up seventh or eighth. It will be tight, IMO.

ahibby
17-09-2017, 05:20 PM
For me it started to go pear shaped after Efe's second injury/treatment. He came back on and straight away their keeper played it long at Efe who then fouled and a then the goal came and another. Well played Efe for their first and while it's not exactly gentlemanly who gives a ........ They are there to win the game. Not forgetting they had three yellows within thirty five minutes and committed countless fouls. Playing on the Refs mind, of course psychologically he'll get tired of blowing and showing them yellows. Well knew what they were about and succeeded at it. I thought NL got it bang right when we went two up. Lets not forget that in the first have Barker caused havoc down the left and Boyle down the right. However that left us with only McGinn and Bartley in the middle where all the battling was going on, Efe helped out and got crunched for his trouble. Many of us must have thought it was the Hamilton game all over again in the second half. It's going to take our players a wee while to find their feet especially Barker, Vic and Big Davey. I'll go with my, original feelings and thoughts during and after the game. Those are one, I have no idea why we can suddenly look as though our players have never played with each other before and therefore become reactive rather than proactive and two, that's as good as it will get for Well, that for me is their A game, while we still have room for improvement. I hope I'm right.

Sir David Gray
17-09-2017, 05:25 PM
For me it started to go pear shaped after Efe's second injury/treatment. He came back on and straight away their keeper played it long at Efe who then fouled and a then the goal came and another. Well played Efe for their first and while it's not exactly gentlemanly who gives a ........ They are there to win the game. Not forgetting they had three yellows within thirty five minutes and committed countless fouls. Playing on the Refs mind, of course psychologically he'll get tired of blowing and showing them yellows. Well knew what they were about and succeeded at it. I thought NL got it bang right when we went two up. Lets not forget that in the first have Barker caused havoc down the left and Boyle down the right. However that left us with only McGinn and Bartley in the middle where all the battling was going on, Efe helped out and got crunched for his trouble. Many of us must have thought it was the Hamilton game all over again in the second half. It's going to take our players a wee while to find their feet especially Barker, Vic and Big Davey. I'll go with my, original feelings and thoughts during and after the game. Those are one, I have no idea why we can suddenly look as though our players have never played with each other before and therefore become reactive rather than proactive and two, that's as good as it will get for Well, that for me is their A game, while we still have room for improvement. I hope I'm right.

There may be very valid points made in this post but I honestly can't read it in that format.

Please use paragraphs!

Sammy7nil
17-09-2017, 05:50 PM
We've added Stokes, a decent SPL level player from a top team, a 33 year old Scotland internationalist, a championship striker who blew hot and cold at a worse team than us and two Lithuanians, one of whom in particular looks a player. We lost Cummings and Fyvie.

By my reckoning, that elevates our squad from a good Championship side to mid-table Premiership at best. Lennon could say the moon was made of cheese but I'd still think critically for myself and come to my own conclusion. Does anyone actually take what he says and just swallow it unedited?

Efe who was only in the championship team towards the end of the season and Swanson an alleged standout for St J last year. My point is not taking NL at face value however his footballing opinion may carry more weight than yours?

emerald green
17-09-2017, 05:55 PM
I just watched highlights of yesterday's match on Sportscene.

The defending for Motherwell's second goal was as bad as their first. The programme actually pin pointed Matulevicius (I think it was) turning his back on the Motherwell player taking the throw in which led to their goal. He just turned his back and trotted off down the pitch. It's not clear if he was trying to pick up a Motherwell player, but it didn't look like it from the pictures.

Then, experienced players sold themselves at least twice diving into "tackles" before the ball was banged into the net.

Sammy7nil
17-09-2017, 06:04 PM
I just watched highlights of yesterday's match on Sportscene.

The defending for Motherwell's second goal was as bad as their first. The programme actually pin pointed Matulevicius (I think it was) turning his back on the Motherwell player taking the throw in which led to their goal. He just turned his back and trotted off down the pitch. It's not clear if he was trying to pick up a Motherwell player, but it didn't look like it from the pictures.

Then, experienced players sold themselves at least twice diving into "tackles" before the ball was banged into the net.

Someone said yesterday Dave was told by NL to go and mark Someone else. I dont know if that is correct.

GreenNWhiteArmy
17-09-2017, 06:15 PM
Some fans really cannot take us not winning. It's probably the same fans that think football is like basketball and you're not allowed to go backwards. Every single game we don't win has the same reaction online - questions over our manager, players x, y and z aren't good enough. Get a ****ing grip.

It was an open game and taking our 2-0 lead out of things, a draw was probably a fair reflection. The fact that we led the game 2-0 though we should have been clever and strong enough to see it out.

Marciano had a really poor game and appears nervous throughout at crosses. Whitty was (from what I could hear) the only player under pressure from early on to play the right pass at the right time, every time from some fans. Despite SJM giving the ball away numerous times. Whitty also didn't have a winger that really supported defensively like SDG had in Boyle on the other side.

Barker started excellently but felt he tried too much at times. At 60-65 mins I thought his race was run. I'd have taken him off then for Dylan to make sure we won the battle in the middle of the park.

The only players that got pass marks for me were SDG, Bartley, Hanlon, Barker (1st half) and Stokes. From what I've seen this season, if SJM has ambitions higher than the likes of Nottingham Forest, he needs to add consistency and more tricks to his game although I appreciate that comment may not go down well here.

Still can't figure out why Whitty was supposed to be marking their most dangerous player at set pieces.

A few things Lennon got wrong in the set up for set pieces, the timing of the subs but as he said when key defenders let him down during the game what can he do other than take them off? We've got an experienced side but lack real maturity and experience at this level it seems unless it's a big game that everyone can get up for.

Massive praise to the well fans, sang pretty much the whole match. Away supports tends to always be more vocal wherever you go in the country but would have hoped we could have created a better atmosphere with the numbers attending

SquashedFrogg
17-09-2017, 07:29 PM
There may be very valid points made in this post but I honestly can't read it in that format.

Please use paragraphs!

Poor comment. The person makes puts his view across and their text format is critised :confused:

Sir David Gray
17-09-2017, 08:12 PM
Poor comment. The person makes puts his view across and their text format is critised :confused:

It makes it very hard to read the post when it's just like one big long sentence with no breaks in it at all.

I wasn't trying to be unkind, I think a lot of people would have skipped past that post when they saw it written out like that.

fulshie
17-09-2017, 08:16 PM
I don't have any real issues with NL but I would have liked to see Dylan McGeoch in the centre of midfield along with John McGinn instead of Marvin Bartley and I would prefer to have Lewis Stevenson at left back instead of Steven Whittaker. Would that have won us the game.....who knows.

Eyrie
17-09-2017, 09:01 PM
I don't have any real issues with NL but I would have liked to see Dylan McGeoch in the centre of midfield along with John McGinn instead of Marvin Bartley and I would prefer to have Lewis Stevenson at left back instead of Steven Whittaker. Would that have won us the game.....who knows.

Motherwell would have dominated the middle of the pitch even more with McGeouch and McGinn as the central two. They need a third player to help out, whether that is Slyvka or Bartley. The former if we're playing 3-5-2, the latter for 4-4-2.

broondog
17-09-2017, 09:18 PM
Rangers for a start and it's ****ing nuts to pretend otherwise. Add in St Johnstone who have been performing consistently for years in the top league.

We, on the other hand, have a squad the majority of whom weren't exactly blowing away Championship sides over the past couple of seasons. But aye, three seasons in the Championship and we should be coming up and finishing third...

Rangers???Absolute nonsense.This is the same Rangers you refer to that we destroyed on their own patch?

it's fans like you that are the problem with the club.No belief in the team at all despite the fact its the best squad we have had in over a decade.The current situation is Lennon's doing. we have the tools on the park more than capable of top 3.

Beefster
18-09-2017, 06:06 AM
Rangers???Absolute nonsense.This is the same Rangers you refer to that we destroyed on their own patch?

it's fans like you that are the problem with the club.No belief in the team at all despite the fact its the best squad we have had in over a decade.The current situation is Lennon's doing. we have the tools on the park more than capable of top 3.

Yeah, fans like me, who repeated buy our STs and just support the team, are definitely the problem.

It's definitely not the ones living in cloud-cuckoo land who act like four year olds being refused sweets that are an issue. Not at all.

pacoluna
18-09-2017, 07:12 AM
Mibbe the giveaway scoreline 2-2 might have given it away??

So the reason we chucked it was because of the subs? Rubbish

matty_f
18-09-2017, 08:03 AM
Yeah, fans like me, who repeated buy our STs and just support the team, are definitely the problem.

It's definitely not the ones living in cloud-cuckoo land who act like four year olds being refused sweets that are an issue. Not at all.

:agree:

WhileTheChief..
18-09-2017, 08:06 AM
Yeah, fans like me, who repeated buy our STs and just support the team, are definitely the problem.

It's definitely not the ones living in cloud-cuckoo land who act like four year olds being refused sweets that are an issue. Not at all.

:top marks

This board has been mental this weekend cause of the 4 year olds.

Captain Trips
18-09-2017, 08:21 AM
Neil has made selections that I think were wrong but even so defenders passing the ball to the other teans strikers, standing off players and bad passing on a fair amount of occasions has been the major factor in us having less points than maybe we could have had.

I think there have been some really bad errors in costing us goals of late and that before NL is the major factor. Regardless of team selection or tactics these mistakes were downbto the individuals

broondog
18-09-2017, 09:04 AM
Yeah, fans like me, who repeated buy our STs and just support the team, are definitely the problem.

It's definitely not the ones living in cloud-cuckoo land who act like four year olds being refused sweets that are an issue. Not at all.

if living in cloud-cuckoo land is believing in the team we have at our disposal, Iīll take that over lowering the bar for the club time and time again so we donīt experience the same level of disappointment.its great you are buying season tickets and supporting the team, most of us are in the same position.but your attitude of having expectations for the club similar to those of Hamilton supporters is pathetic. As is blindly following the manager who according to you canīt be criticised for anything. He is not solely to blame but I think substitutions have been questionable and the omission of Slivka completely unacceptable. That is solely Lennonīs fault and has cost us points.

I say again I am not calling for him to go, far from it. but he has yet to prove himself at any club as a manager and that inexperience, which I think we have seen the last few weeks, concerns me.

LaMotta
18-09-2017, 09:37 AM
if living in cloud-cuckoo land is believing in the team we have at our disposal, Iīll take that over lowering the bar for the club time and time again so we donīt experience the same level of disappointment.its great you are buying season tickets and supporting the team, most of us are in the same position.but your attitude of having expectations for the club similar to those of Hamilton supporters is pathetic. As is blindly following the manager who according to you canīt be criticised for anything. He is not solely to blame but I think substitutions have been questionable and the omission of Slivka completely unacceptable. That is solely Lennonīs fault and has cost us points.

I say again I am not calling for him to go, far from it. but he has yet to prove himself at any club as a manager and that inexperience, which I think we have seen the last few weeks, concerns me.

This sentence is bonkers. Slivka has had one really good game for us against 10 man Rangers. He has played ok a couple of other times and thats about it.

People are being blinded by the fact he came from Juventus, its the only explanation for the exaggerated tales of his brilliance so far on here.

He came off the bench on Saturday and showed a couple of nice touches but gave the ball away at least 3 times with poor passes.

Lets Ignore the Juventus link, watch what is actually happening on the pitch and stop using Slivka as a stick to beat Lennon with.

Keith_M
18-09-2017, 11:05 AM
I think a few fans are beginning to realise that we aren't as good as they'd like to think. Especially at the back.



:agree:


After all the overblown hype, I think it's come as a shock to some people that our team, and manager, are mibbe just bang average after all.


We've had some people claim we should be finishing second and Lennon's the best thing since Hovis. Now others think Lennon should be given the heave, and our team's rubbish.

Extremes are best avoided.

Beefster
18-09-2017, 11:33 AM
As is blindly following the manager who according to you canīt be criticised for anything.

You're just making **** up now.

Betty Boop
18-09-2017, 02:08 PM
:agree:


After all the overblown hype, I think it's come as a shock to some people that our team, and manager, are mibbe just bang average after all.


We've had some people claim we should be finishing second and Lennon's the best thing since Hovis. Now others think Lennon should be given the heave, and our team's rubbish.

Extremes are best avoided.

I'm sure Lennon said at the start of the season we were the second best team in the league?

Danderhall Hibs
18-09-2017, 02:19 PM
I'm sure Lennon said at the start of the season we were the second best team in the league?

Don't think so? He said his first priority was to avoid relegation at the start of the season.

He did say after the Cup semi last season that he thought we were the 2nd best team in the country.

BoomtownHibees
18-09-2017, 02:36 PM
if living in cloud-cuckoo land is believing in the team we have at our disposal, Iīll take that over lowering the bar for the club time and time again so we donīt experience the same level of disappointment.its great you are buying season tickets and supporting the team, most of us are in the same position.but your attitude of having expectations for the club similar to those of Hamilton supporters is pathetic. As is blindly following the manager who according to you canīt be criticised for anything. He is not solely to blame but I think substitutions have been questionable and the omission of Slivka completely unacceptable. That is solely Lennonīs fault and has cost us points.

I say again I am not calling for him to go, far from it. but he has yet to prove himself at any club as a manager and that inexperience, which I think we have seen the last few weeks, concerns me.

Slivka played against Dundee and we failed to win. What next?

Firestarter
18-09-2017, 03:10 PM
Don't think so? He said his first priority was to avoid relegation at the start of the season.

He did say after the Cup semi last season that he thought we were the 2nd best team in the country.

Top 6 is the aim this year then perhaps the top 4/3 long term, sure he said that a few weeks back.

Stevie Reid
18-09-2017, 03:39 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41308150

green day
18-09-2017, 03:56 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41308150

I dont disagree with him. Some of the stuff the defence produced (Gray perhaps excused) on Saturday was bordering on laughable.

Porteous would have done a better job than Efe on Saturday, so he needs told - and would much rather have a Lennon saying it how it is than the identikit manager some clubs have.

Stevie Reid
18-09-2017, 03:59 PM
I dont disagree with him. Some of the stuff the defence produced (Gray perhaps excused) on Saturday was bordering on laughable.

Porteous would have done a better job than Efe on Saturday, so he needs told - and would much rather have a Lennon saying it how it is than the identikit manager some clubs have.

Yeah his criticism of the players doesn't bother me, I really like Lennon and time will tell if it's the right approach.