What was it like pre-segregation?

[G B Young]

In light of the furore over the number of Cologne fans who gained access to the home sections at the Emirates last night, I was put in mind of old footage of Edinburgh derby matches where you can clearly see the fans are unsegregated.

I'm not quite old enough to remember those days, but for those who are what was it like? Was there much trouble or did standing and sitting alongside Hearts supporters dilute the tension somewhat? Or were fans just less full of venom towards each other back then?

I imagine things must have got a bit hairy when the Old Firm came to ER (in particular before the alcohol ban).

[Forza Fred]

We'd still 'self segregate' in a way by gathering together.

The Cow shed though was volatile with only a stairway of polis separating opposing fans on a few occasions.

I particularly remember the game against Celtic when John Hughes broke Bobby Duncan's leg.

We let them know in no uncertain terms what we thought of Hughes to be met with a sky full of bottles cans and glasses hurled towards us.

It was like a scene out of Braveheart where the English unleash their arrows...except substitute Lanliq and Melroso (weegie special preferred tipples at the time) bottles and wine glasses for the arrows!

[Spike Mandela]

It was like social media but face to face. Difference was you had to be able to back it up if you had a big mouth.

[green&left]

In light of the furore over the number of Cologne fans who gained access to the home sections at the Emirates last night, I was put in mind of old footage of Edinburgh derby matches where you can clearly see the fans are unsegregated.

I'm not quite old enough to remember those days, but for those who are what was it like? Was there much trouble or did standing and sitting alongside Hearts supporters dilute the tension somewhat? Or were fans just less full of venom towards each other back then?

I imagine things must have got a bit hairy when the Old Firm came to ER (in particular before the alcohol ban).

German fans mix all the time BTW. They probably wouldn't have seen any problems buying home end tickets. The mix pre match, during the match and post match and very rarely any bother in Germany.

[Paisley Hibby]

In light of the furore over the number of Cologne fans who gained access to the home sections at the Emirates last night, I was put in mind of old footage of Edinburgh derby matches where you can clearly see the fans are unsegregated.

I'm not quite old enough to remember those days, but for those who are what was it like? Was there much trouble or did standing and sitting alongside Hearts supporters dilute the tension somewhat? Or were fans just less full of venom towards each other back then?

I imagine things must have got a bit hairy when the Old Firm came to ER (in particular before the alcohol ban).

I can just about remember going to matches before segregation. I recall at half time you'd have fans switching ends with the different fans passing each other at the half way line. I don't remember any trouble around that but I was probably too young to be going to games involving OF. Also, my memories of this are really at away grounds (eg Brockville) rather than Easter Road. Later in the 1970s I remember being in the Dunbar End for a Celtic match and we beat them 4-1 (or maybe even 4-0) and the Celtic fans were not happy. Screwtop beer bottles flying everywhere - over our heads and the game was stopped. Jock Stein came over to try to calm things down. That was mental.

[Keith_M]

German fans mix all the time BTW. They probably wouldn't have seen any problems buying home end tickets. The mix pre match, during the match and post match and very rarely any bother in Germany.


Most of any trouble at German games is between the so-called 'Ultras' and the Police. For some reason, they really have it in for the Polis over here.

The most common graffiti in and around grounds is 'ACAB' (All Cops Are B...)

[Keith_M]

Does anybody know which year the segregation fence was put in place between the Main Terrace (East) and the Dunbar End?

My first match was in March 1979, and it was already there.

[JeMeSouviens]

Most of any trouble at German games is between the so-called 'Ultras' and the Police. For some reason, they really have it in for the Polis over here.

The most common graffiti in and around grounds is 'ACAB' (All Cops Are B...)

Verging off topic but why are they "1. FC Koeln" and not just "FC Koeln"? What does the "1." mean?

[JeMeSouviens]

Back on topic, I'm sure the 79 cup final was only partly segregated? We were on the north terrace under the old stand that used to be there and I have vague memories of Huns and Hibbies exchanging pleasantries? I think it was segregated at the ends though.

[Keith_M]

Verging off topic but why are they "1. FC Koeln" and not just "FC Koeln"? What does the "1." mean?


I've no idea why they add it, but it's quite common with clubs that were formed after a merger of two other clubs.

[G B Young]

I can just about remember going to matches before segregation. I recall at half time you'd have fans switching ends with the different fans passing each other at the half way line. I don't remember any trouble around that but I was probably too young to be going to games involving OF. Also, my memories of this are really at away grounds (eg Brockville) rather than Easter Road. Later in the 1970s I remember being in the Dunbar End for a Celtic match and we beat them 4-1 (or maybe even 4-0) and the Celtic fans were not happy. Screwtop beer bottles flying everywhere - over our heads and the game was stopped. Jock Stein came over to try to calm things down. That was mental.

Here's the game you mention, complete with footage of Stein coming on the pitch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcZ0yrTT45c

[Carheenlea]

Verging off topic but why are they "1. FC Koeln" and not just "FC Koeln"? What does the "1." mean?


I've no idea why they add it, but it's quite common with clubs that were formed after a merger of two other clubs.

"German football club names represent the German habit of naming their clubs in a very traditional format. Historical roots are extremely important to clubs in the Bundesliga, and their names simply reflect that.

For example, Fußballclub Gelsenkirchen-Schalke 04 e. V.

What does each term mean?
Fußballclub = football club.
Gelsenkirchen-Schalke = the place where the club is founded (in this case the city of Gelsenkirchen in the district of Schalke in the North Rhine-Westphalia region of Germany.
04 = 1904, the year the club was founded
e.V. = Eingetragener Verein = registered association.
This is how the club is officially registered.
Most people call it just Schalke, and choosing to put 04 on the logo is just a (historical) stylistic choice.

Another example - 1. Fußball-Club Köln 01/07 e. V.

1. at the start shows that it is the first club formed in the city. This is a matter of great pride for clubs.
Fußballclub = football club
Köln = from Cologne/Köln
01/07 = the club was formed in 1948 as a merger of the clubs Kölner Ballspiel-Club 1901 and SpVgg Sülz 07. The 01/07 reflects these historical roots.
e.V. = Eingetragener Verein = registered association.
Once again, they're mostly called 1. FC Köln or simply FC (effzeh).

Most clubs are of a very traditional format (club type, city/town, year of formation, association status). There are clubs which deviate from this, obviously.
For example, Bayern Munich (Fußball-Club Bayern München e.V) does not mention the year it was formed.
Borussia Dortmund (Ballspielverein Borussia 09 e.V. Dortmund) gets the Borussia from a local brewery, though it is ultimately derived from Prussia. (BVB 09 is an abbreviation of the part before the e.V.)

Simply put: this is not a rule, but a general tradition which a number of clubs across Germany have adopted."

[Bobo]

1935719357

This is what it used to like vrs the old firm and the merricks.

[Keith_M]

1935719357

This is what it used to like vrs the old firm and the merricks.


Those pictures actually look very similar to the first couple of OF games I attended at ER, and that was after segregation was introduced.

I think in the first few years afte the fences went up, segregation wasn't enforced anywhere nearly as strictly as it is now, so we had loads of OF Fans in the home end, with resulting battles on the terraces.

Beastie and his mates used to sort them out, nae bother ;-)

[JeMeSouviens]

Thanks for that... but it falls down in the example of 1 FC Köln.

"1. at the start shows that it is the first club formed in the city. This is a matter of great pride for clubs."

They weren't the first club in the city if they were formed as a part of a merger of other clubs ;-)


Thanks Keekaboo and Carheenlea. Thread on it here:

https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/1-fc-german-football-club-names.2191207/


Again, the name "1. FC" has nothing whatsoever to do with the team's performance. It is a pure name constituent and is used to indicate age or sometimes size of the club (1. FC Köln, e.g., is not the oldest Cologne soccer club nor was any of the former clubs which merged to form the club 1948 but it is by far the biggest association football club in the city). In actual fact it is not guaranteed to mean anything.

[WeeRussell]

In light of the furore over the number of Cologne fans who gained access to the home sections at the Emirates last night, I was put in mind of old footage of Edinburgh derby matches where you can clearly see the fans are unsegregated.

I'm not quite old enough to remember those days, but for those who are what was it like? Was there much trouble or did standing and sitting alongside Hearts supporters dilute the tension somewhat? Or were fans just less full of venom towards each other back then?

I imagine things must have got a bit hairy when the Old Firm came to ER (in particular before the alcohol ban).

Weren't the crowds still 'un-segregated' when you were going to Scotland games in the 70s?

Have heard stories about Wembley having more Scotland fans in it than England ones (though the teller of these is prone to a bit of exaggeration :greengrin) I would imagine that most internationals would be kind of naturally segregated in that the majority would be home supporters and the away fans would gravitate to one area... but the issues of no official barriers etc would still stand.

[JeMeSouviens]

Weren't the crowds still 'un-segregated' when you were going to Scotland games in the 70s?

Have heard stories about Wembley having more Scotland fans in it than England ones (though the teller of these is prone to a bit of exaggeration :greengrin) I would imagine that most internationals would be kind of naturally segregated in that the majority would be home supporters and the away fans would gravitate to one area... but the issues of no official barriers etc would still stand.

The Gordon McQueen header one where the exuberant fans broke the goalposts looked like 90% Scotland fans on the telly.

[Is It On....]

My dad likes telling me of his fondness for an "unsegregated" New Year's Day game he attended at Tynecastle in the early 1970s 😂

[Is It On....]

Most of any trouble at German games is between the so-called 'Ultras' and the Police. For some reason, they really have it in for the Polis over here.

The most common graffiti in and around grounds is 'ACAB' (All Cops Are B...)

ACAB...also the title of a cracking song by early 80s OI band The 4 Skins.

[WeeRussell]

The Gordon McQueen header one where the exuberant fans broke the goalposts looked like 90% Scotland fans on the telly.


That's the one :greengrin

My auld man also claims that they used to 'turn-up' the noise of the English fans on the TV to make it seem like there were more of them there, whilst being drowned-out by 'us boys'.

No that I'm doubting him like.

Exuberance.. ye cannae beat it.

[Bobo]

Weren't the crowds still 'un-segregated' when you were going to Scotland games in the 70s?

Have heard stories about Wembley having more Scotland fans in it than England ones (though the teller of these is prone to a bit of exaggeration :greengrin) I would imagine that most internationals would be kind of naturally segregated in that the majority would be home supporters and the away fans would gravitate to one area... but the issues of no official barriers etc would still stand.

There were about 65000 Scots out of a 98000 crowd at Wembley in 1977 according to this article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3927302/Recalling-iconic-moment-Scotland-fans-stormed-Wembley-pitch-snapped-crossbar-stunning-England-1977.htm

[Kato]

Weren't the crowds still 'un-segregated' when you were going to Scotland games in the 70s?

Have heard stories about Wembley having more Scotland fans in it than England ones (though the teller of these is prone to a bit of exaggeration :greengrin) I would imagine that most internationals would be kind of naturally segregated in that the majority would be home supporters and the away fans would gravitate to one area... but the issues of no official barriers etc would still stand.

I was at 4 Wembley fixtures, 1977-83. All bar the last one had vastly more Scotland than England fans. In '79 I went into the ground with about 10 minutes to kick off and there were still thousands out-side milling around all the way down Wembley Way and Scotland fans inside must have been about 75-80% of the crowd. No need to exaggerate, that's the way it was.

[WeeRussell]

I was at 4 Wembley fixtures, 1977-83. All bar the last one had vastly more Scotland than England fans. In '79 I went into the ground with about 10 minutes to kick off and there were still thousands out-side milling around all the way down Wembley Way and Scotland fans inside must have been about 75-80% of the crowd. No need to exaggerate, that's the way it was.

Yep - I do believe it. Just put that line in seeing as it was my auld man... and also to point out it wasn't my stats :greengrin

[Mick O'Rourke]

We'd still 'self segregate' in a way by gathering together.

The Cow shed though was volatile with only a stairway of polis separating opposing fans on a few occasions.

I particularly remember the game against Celtic when John Hughes broke Bobby Duncan's leg.

We let them know in no uncertain terms what we thought of Hughes to be met with a sky full of bottles cans and glasses hurled towards us.

It was like a scene out of Braveheart where the English unleash their arrows...except substitute Lanliq and Melroso (weegie special preferred tipples at the time) bottles and wine glasses for the arrows!

THE CAVE !!!
12345 ...if you want to stay alive !
Keep out The Cave !!
We did defend our territory against all comers, even the Edinburgh Constabulary, if they tried to confiscate a banner (usually mine. I had one with a Harp painted on it) or huckle an innocent,exuberant fan from The Cave.
Enter at your peril !!
Happy Days !

Lannie and Melrose?
Great stuff for stripping wallpaper and removing gloss paint.
It could shift artex tae !

My preference was a wee quarter bottle of 4 Crown washed down with 4 cans of Export.

Nectar !!
Am no surprised i have little recall of the mid/late sixties in The Cave.

Oh, and if younger fans think visits to the dark side of Govan is bad these days,the 60s and 70s were no picnic !
Not for the faint or chicken hearted back then.

[G B Young]

Weren't the crowds still 'un-segregated' when you were going to Scotland games in the 70s?

Have heard stories about Wembley having more Scotland fans in it than England ones (though the teller of these is prone to a bit of exaggeration :greengrin) I would imagine that most internationals would be kind of naturally segregated in that the majority would be home supporters and the away fans would gravitate to one area... but the issues of no official barriers etc would still stand.

I never went to Wembley nor to a Scotland v England game at Hampden but yes, I do recall being taken to home internationals at Hampden when I'm pretty sure Welsh and Northern Ireland fans were unsegregated. Might be wrong though. The thing about grounds like Hampden and Wembley back then though was that they were so vast (crowds of 100,000+) that I I imagine it was a case of just paying at the gate rather than having to have a ticket.

I clearly recall being among Dutch and Swiss (was that the final game?) fans at Euro 96 and mingling with Brazil fans at World Cup 98. The England fixture aside, I guess internationals are less 'tribal'. That's certainly the case when it comes to international rugby, where the lack of segregation and banter between the fans is all part of the experience.

[Halmyre Hibee]

Used to go with my Hibs & Hearts mates to the derbies and just good banter. There was always a few nutters on both sides but they tended to congregate in the cave and chuck bottles at each other or at the roof to smash. Remember a game being stopped while the aggro was taking place and there was a great picture in the paper of Erich Schaedler sitting on the ball watching it all unfold.

The old firm fans were different especially if we were beating them and not uncommon for pissed filled cans flying about with whisky bottles. Some teenagers used to wear those builders hard hats to the game (even a few painted green) and I remember on of my school mates wearing one.

Only got hit once as a 13 year old v Rangers by grown men chucking golf balls at us school kids in the Dunbar end during a Scottish Cup replay at Easter Road 72-73 season as we lost 1-2 with over 49,000 at the game. Hated them ever since.

[Mick O'Rourke]

I never went to Wembley nor to a Scotland v England game at Hampden but yes, I do recall being taken to home internationals at Hampden when I'm pretty sure Welsh and Northern Ireland fans were unsegregated. Might be wrong though. The thing about grounds like Hampden and Wembley back then though was that they were so vast (crowds of 100,000+) that I I imagine it was a case of just paying at the gate rather than having to have a ticket.

I clearly recall being among Dutch and Swiss (was that the final game?) fans at Euro 96 and mingling with Brazil fans at World Cup 98. The England fixture aside, I guess internationals are less 'tribal'. That's certainly the case when it comes to international rugby, where the lack of segregation and banter between the fans is all part of the experience.
I attended 7 Wembleys (2 wins)
It was tickets back then
The situation was during the late sixties and seventies many "England" fans would not attend and Scottish fans in England would hoover up the tickets.
Scotland would usually get an allocation of around 30.000,but as older fans will know 70.000 plus would be in the stadium
So of course it was not properly segregated

However it was a case of "Spot the Englishman"

I once got in for free by carring in a side drum for the prematch pipe band !!
Sat 4 rows in front of the Tornadoes that day !! 1973
England "won" 1-0
Scotland were brilliant that day.
Peter Shilton had what was a genuine world class save from King Kenny.

In fact, i "sneaked" into Wembley 4 times.
Only on two occasions did i have a ticket before going down.

[Forza Fred]

I attended 7 Wembleys (2 wins)
It was tickets back then
The situation was during the late sixties and seventies many "England" fans would not attend and Scottish fans in England would hoover up the tickets.
Scotland would usually get an allocation of around 30.000,but as older fans will know 70.000 plus would be in the stadium
So of course it was not properly segregated

However it was a case of "Spot the Englishman"

I once got in for free by carring in a side drum for the prematch pipe band !!
Sat 4 rows in front of the Tornadoes that day !! 1973
England "won" 1-0
Scotland were brilliant that day.
Peter Shilton had what was a genuine world class save from King Kenny.

In fact, i "sneaked" into Wembley 4 times.
Only on two occasions did i have a ticket before going down.

I was at that Wembley......it was the one where the wee Scotsman invaded the park and made a run at England's Jimmy Clitheroe....otherwise known as Alan Ball.

I had a ticket....but witnessed a couple of guys on our bus just jumping over the turnstiles!

Never saw an Englishman there.......a quick dip in Trafalgar Square amongst the lions after more than a modicum of grossly overpriced London beer and then intae bed...

Happy Days!

[snedzuk]

Used to go with my Hibs & Hearts mates to the derbies and just good banter. There was always a few nutters on both sides but they tended to congregate in the cave and chuck bottles at each other or at the roof to smash. Remember a game being stopped while the aggro was taking place and there was a great picture in the paper of Erich Schaedler sitting on the ball watching it all unfold.

The old firm fans were different especially if we were beating them and not uncommon for pissed filled cans flying about with whisky bottles. Some teenagers used to wear those builders hard hats to the game (even a few painted green) and I remember on of my school mates wearing one.

Only got hit once as a 13 year old v Rangers by grown men chucking golf balls at us school kids in the Dunbar end during a Scottish Cup replay at Easter Road 72-73 season as we lost 1-2 with over 49,000 at the game. Hated them ever since.

No way arthur duncan was offside that night.

[therealgavmac]

The Gordon McQueen header one where the exuberant fans broke the goalposts looked like 90% Scotland fans on the telly.


Weren't the crowds still 'un-segregated' when you were going to Scotland games in the 70s?

Have heard stories about Wembley having more Scotland fans in it than England ones (though the teller of these is prone to a bit of exaggeration :greengrin) I would imagine that most internationals would be kind of naturally segregated in that the majority would be home supporters and the away fans would gravitate to one area... but the issues of no official barriers etc would still stand.

I've been to Wembley on a number of occasions where in 100,000 at leat 90,000 plus were Scots fans. Also, the "goalpost" game, Ted Croker tried to ban the Scots from Wembley by not officially giving the SFA tickets..... that worked out well!

Cue the renditions of, "Ban us fae Wembley, Ye cannae ban us fae Wembley, Ban us fae Weeeeeeembley....." etc

[wpj]

1935719357

This is what it used to like vrs the old firm and the merricks.

The good old days when flares were allowed in a ground.

[Halmyre Hibee]

No way arthur duncan was offside that night.

But the referee let Tommy McLean score from an offside position if I recall. Same old Rangers (and referees) always cheating both on and off the field.

[Keith_M]

I was at Wembley in 1983, when the Scotland Fans were supposed to be banned from attending, and there was a lot more Scots than English in the ground.

Due to trouble at previous matches the game was played midweek, and the attendance was also a bit lower than the capacity (84k, I think).

[Killiehibbie]

I was at Wembley in 1983, when the Scotland Fans were supposed to be banned from attending, and there was a lot more Scots than English in the ground.

Due to trouble at previous matches the game was played midweek, and the attendance was also a bit lower than the capacity (84k, I think).If you were in the tunnel end there was a lot more of us but overall it looked about 50/50. The seats looked mostly English. Couldn't believe it when the football special stopped long enough for me to jump off and run 100 yards to my bed.

[Keith_M]

If you were in the tunnel end there was a lot more of us but overall it looked about 50/50. The seats looked mostly English. Couldn't believe it when the football special stopped long enough for me to jump off and run 100 yards to my bed.


I was in the other end, and believe me, it was almost all Scots.

You're probably right about the seating are though.

[ancient hibee]

Hampden Scotland v England was all ticket even in the 140000 days.

Easter Road v Rangers or Celtic the prime spot was high up on the terracing keeping the riffraff in front of you.Usually those that came off the train at the Dunbar end went straight onto the lower sections.

[Roxyhibee]

As has been said, natural segregation occurred at certain parts of the ground. But in other bits of ER, you could be standing next to groups of Huns, Yams, no problem with alot of drama happening. Didn't always feel safe though and paggering was commonplace.

I remember the first Dryborough semi against The Huns and the cave being a constant battle ground - green on one side with blue, white and red on the other separated by the thin line of cops standing on the steps. 2 of my school mates who were as soft as me, got lifted and fined.! Was glad I was in the West with my dad. 3 nil to the Hibees - I loved that game.

Like most at the 0-7 game, I was in amongst loads of them, but cannot recall any violence as such. They were probably so blown away by what was happening, a sort of shock came over most if them. I remember seeing an older Hibby giving a younger Yam the remainder of his cairry oot at half time telling him he'd need it for the second half (he wasn't trying to be smart) - he accepted it with a genuine sense of gloom.

We had a family friend (a Yam himself) who was a bus driver on duty along Gorgie that New Year's Day and he said a Jambo stood in front of his bus after the game and asked him to run him over.! He wouldn't move and had the be 'talked down'. Oh to have mobile phone cameras in those days.!?

[PeeJay]

Another example - 1. Fußball-Club Köln 01/07 e. V.

1. at the start shows that it is the first club formed in the city.


Nein - :no way: you're wrong here - the official name of the club is "Erster Fußballclub Köln" - it's not the first club formed in the city - there were several clubs already playing in the city at the time - two of them eventually merged to then form this one, which has since become the biggest and therefore the primary team in the city - a club originally formed to be then capable of challenging for nationwide titles, which wasn't the case beforehand with the smaller Kölner clubs ... many clubs at the time were pissed off at FC for claiming to be the No. 1 Cologne team, as back then, there was not really any justification for such a claim ...

[JeMeSouviens]

Nein - :no way: you're wrong here - the official name of the club is "Erster Fußballclub Köln" - it's not the first club formed in the city - there were several clubs already playing in the city at the time - two of them eventually merged to then form this one, which has since become the biggest and therefore the primary team in the city - a club originally formed to be then capable of challenging for nationwide titles, which wasn't the case beforehand with the smaller Kölner clubs ... many clubs at the time were pissed off at FC for claiming to be the No. 1 Cologne team, as back then, there was not really any justification for such a claim ...



So a bit like calling themselves "the Famous"? I'm going right off 1. FC Koeln ...

[offshorehibby]

Made Wembly 3 times some amazing supports over the years. Always loved seeing the clips of the couple of Scotland fans scaling the twin towers and getting hauled in through the we windows, must have been 75 or 77

[Hibrandenburg]

Does anybody know which year the segregation fence was put in place between the Main Terrace (East) and the Dunbar End?

My first match was in March 1979, and it was already there.

Must have been late 70's. I was a ball boy mid seventies at reserve games and the whole big terrace and Dunbar end had no segregation. At home games some Hibs fans would stand at the Dunbar end to engage in off the field activities with away fans from the smaller visiting teams. The last time I consciously remember doing that was the StJohnstone 9-2 game. I think I was there with Spog Stewart that day. Wonder if he kicks about the forum?

[Keith_M]

Must have been late 70's. I was a ball boy mid seventies at reserve games and the whole big terrace and Dunbar end had no segregation. At home games some Hibs fans would stand at the Dunbar end to engage in off the field activities with away fans from the smaller visiting teams. The last time I consciously remember doing that was the StJohnstone 9-2 game. I think I was there with Spog Stewart that day. Wonder if he kicks about the forum?


Who he?

[JeMeSouviens]

My first game was the cup quarter final vs Hearts in 79. Seggy fence was there then. Jambos fought among themselves. Weirdos.

[offshorehibby]

Even when the fence went up you could move between the Dunbar end and main tracing at the gate at the top.

[Hibrandenburg]

Verging off topic but why are they "1. FC Koeln" and not just "FC Koeln"? What does the "1." mean?

The . in written German translates to st, nd, rd or th. So in Köln's case it means they're the 1st team. Like most German football teams they're originally part of a larger sporting organisation including handball and athletic teams.

[Topographic Hibby]

Went with my dad to the old East to watch a Hibs game against St. Mirren, around early 1978. The "feisty ones" from each support seemed to gather close to each other, high up in top section of the East. Bricks, stones and screw-top bottles were exchanged, through the air naturally.

Roll forward a few years and we are playing Hamilton Accies. Not many Accies fans, but that doesn't stop a few of our lads chasing after an Accies father and his sons, lobbing stink bombs and spit in their direction.

Seven years later, I'm in charge of an office in Glasgow and the new area manager rolls-up. Yep, you guessed, the Accies dad...!! :paranoid:

[kaimendhibs]

Used to go with my Hibs & Hearts mates to the derbies and just good banter. There was always a few nutters on both sides but they tended to congregate in the cave and chuck bottles at each other or at the roof to smash. Remember a game being stopped while the aggro was taking place and there was a great picture in the paper of Erich Schaedler sitting on the ball watching it all unfold.

The old firm fans were different especially if we were beating them and not uncommon for pissed filled cans flying about with whisky bottles. Some teenagers used to wear those builders hard hats to the game (even a few painted green) and I remember on of my school mates wearing one.

Only got hit once as a 13 year old v Rangers by grown men chucking golf balls at us school kids in the Dunbar end during a Scottish Cup replay at Easter Road 72-73 season as we lost 1-2 with over 49,000 at the game. Hated them ever since.I used to wear a green and white hard hat ha. Most mental away game I remember was at tynie when Ally Mcleod equalised in injury time. It went tonto in the school end.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[heretoday]

My dad likes telling me of his fondness for an "unsegregated" New Year's Day game he attended at Tynecastle in the early 1970s 😂

Indeed! We were behind the goal at the school end. There were five of us Hibs and three Hearts. We had some beer smuggled in down jeans and in socks.

No trouble as I recall. The Hearts fans were too stupified I think!

We took the mick out of them for a bit but it was just another match really which has assumed greater significance with the power of the Internet. There wasn't the nasty hatred that exists now. Someone said earlier that if you had a mind to insult the opposition you did it face to face rather than hiding behind computer anonymity.

[SteveHFC]

Was at Frankfurt v Bayern a few years ago. Both sets of supporters in the same section. Not one bit of bother.

Scotland v Poland 2 years ago was crazy though.

[Onion]

Pre-segrregation. Proper football, when men were men and not a statement in sight.

Morelos salmon flip tonight and Sevco management team complaining about Lennon to the police is meant to represent progress :confused:

[Lancs Harp]

Just out of interest im presuming in a bygone era there wasnt segragation in a celtic rangers game. Anyone any idea when segreagation came in, in the old firm game?

[heretoday]

Pre-segrregation. Proper football, when men were men and not a statement in sight.

Morelos salmon flip tonight and Sevco management team complaining about Lennon to the police is meant to represent progress :confused:
You're right. It all makes me puke.

[Tom Hart RIP]

The Rangers Drybrough Cup semi at ER was the worst football violence I have seen and I believe that was the reason seats got put in the Shed.
They had a European Cup Winners Cup winning team and we beat them 3-0.
Ps I also wore a hard hat painted green to games and also got hit with a golf ball at Tynie.

[HibbyDave]

Yip hard hat wearer! I remember a guy next to me at a motherwell match getting a dart in the head. He seemed not to notice at first then put his hand up as if to scratch his head , it was unreal in those days. I still think segregation made things much worse as it encouraged tribalism.

[Keith_M]

Just out of interest im presuming in a bygone era there wasnt segragation in a celtic rangers game. Anyone any idea when segreagation came in, in the old firm game?


There was unnoficial segregation at Old Firm matches decades earlier.

Celtc fans even had an offical boycott of Ibrox due to attacks from home fans... in 1948!

[greenpaper55]

Back in the sixties most fans mingled and there was a bit of banter but not much else until the great unwashed came through and all hell was let lose. Both were bad and it was not unusual for them to lob the empty buck fast bottles onto the fans further down the terracing i kid you not ! The best part of no segregation was you were able to change ends to be behind the away keeper to see all the goals go in, my old man thought we were all mad .

[Nakedmanoncrack]

Almost every Scotland away game I've been at has been unsegregatated - with varying numbers of Scotland fans in home end. On only one occasion (Macedonia) was there any attempt to stop us gaining entry to home section, even then we eventually got in. Paris 07 is the best example, around half the stadium Scots. Games in finals of WC or EC are never fully segregated and this rarely leads to problems regardless of who the teams involved are.

[Alfiembra]

Yip hard hat wearer! I remember a guy next to me at a motherwell match getting a dart in the head. He seemed not to notice at first then put his hand up as if to scratch his head , it was unreal in those days. I still think segregation made things much worse as it encouraged tribalism.

I remember seeing that, cup game at Fir Park wasn't it 75/76? Saw the guy getting escorted round the track thought he'd been lifted then noticed the dart sticking out his head.

i also recall being at a Rangers game at ER when the half time end swap was under way and noticed a group of Rangers fans approaching and one in particular very drunk and pushing everyone out his way and snarling at anyone that objected to him, heading straight for me. Being about 14/15 year old at the time and daft enough to think you're not pushing me mate I braced myself against a barrier so that he couldn't push, not the brightest thing I've ever done as he started to turn on me when I wasn't getting out his way fortunately one of his mates dragged him away before anything kicked off. For a brief moment though I did think oops not the best plan of action. Also noticed that my Dad and brother had mysteriously disappeared for a few minutes. Ah the seventies.

[EastThomasSTboy]

Also a hard hat wearer (14-16yrs old). It was spraypainted green and the brush strokes were braw.

Worst violence I ever saw was at the Liverpool away game (The Stanton dropped game!!). We were behind the goals opposite the Kop, where loads of scousers had Rangers tops on and the fighting went on throughout the whole match and afterwards.

The Cave at ER could also be hairy because u were standing about 3 to 4 feet from the Opposition bampots, with a line of coppers standing on the dividing steps about 12 feet apart, and if you werent watchful , folk would regularly get a dunt in the puss, then the offender would step back/hide, beside his supporters, before the polis could even move. It was quite funny watching it happen to other people!!

When the Cave was packed with just Hibbies, on our European nights, we tried to make it like a mini-kop, all swaying back and forth. Those were the days my friend.

[Glory Lurker]

I wasn't at the game, but Scotland-England in 1985 was unsegregated. The English fans were taken out of the ground by the police because things had started to kick off a bit. Don't think there would be bother between Scotland and England fans these days.

[Keith_M]

I wasn't at the game, but Scotland-England in 1985 was unsegregated. The English fans were taken out of the ground by the police because things had started to kick off a bit. Don't think there would be bother between Scotland and England fans these days.


According to this article (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/scotland/trouble-marked-beginning-of-end-for-scotland-england-game-1-4465339), the England 'Fans' had gained entry to a part of the ground reserved for Scottish Supporters.

"These England fans had to be shepherded out of the ground and led to Mount Florida station after coming off the worst in skirmishing that accounted for many of the 85 arrests on the day."

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Almost every Scotland away game I've been at has been unsegregatated - with varying numbers of Scotland fans in home end. On only one occasion (Macedonia) was there any attempt to stop us gaining entry to home section, even then we eventually got in. Paris 07 is the best example, around half the stadium Scots. Games in finals of WC or EC are never fully segregated and this rarely leads to problems regardless of who the teams involved are.

Me and my mate had tickets for the home end in the 1-0 game but, never got in. After they took an early lead we just headed back to the boozers along the river and watched it there, great trip.

[scm70nyd1973]

I've been to Wembley on a number of occasions where in 100,000 at leat 90,000 plus were Scots fans. Also, the "goalpost" game, Ted Croker tried to ban the Scots from Wembley by not officially giving the SFA tickets..... that worked out well!

Cue the renditions of, "Ban us fae Wembley, Ye cannae ban us fae Wembley, Ban us fae Weeeeeeembley....." etc


The 'goalposts' game was '77 - it was '79 when the ban went in as a result of the goings on 2 years prior - pissing with rain that day in '79 and about 70,000 of us in there - banner saying "So you tried to ban us Mr Croker" - oh and we won 1-0 ! There was no transport that day so we had to walk back to the city centre - by that time it had stopped raining.

Back on topic - I remember that directly behind the goals where the penalty was scored there was a thin strip of English fans from top to bottom who were hardly heard all game - we were jam packed in and on either side if them. Don't remember any bother - you know the big hole that would suddenly appear when it all kicked off.

[where'stheslope]

Remember going to a Hibs V Rangers game on a Wednesday night, just got in up the terracing walking along the causeway between the terracing and the high bank, my mate who was in front of me was hit on the head with a full can of beer and knocked out cold.
Around us the white hankies were waving, he was put on a stretcher we were taken down the terrace over the half-way line down tunnel and into an ambulance.
Time at that match less than 5 minutes, all because the mixed crowed were having a slanging match before the game had started, remembering at that time these games would have 30,000 plus attending.

[The Pointer]

Remember going to a Hibs V Rangers game on a Wednesday night, just got in up the terracing walking along the causeway between the terracing and the high bank, my mate who was in front of me was hit on the head with a full can of beer and knocked out cold.
Around us the white hankies were waving, he was put on a stretcher we were taken down the terrace over the half-way line down tunnel and into an ambulance.
Time at that match less than 5 minutes, all because the mixed crowed were having a slanging match before the game had started, remembering at that time these games would have 30,000 plus attending.

I remember the white hankies!

Unfortunately I think that game was maybe the one where Colin Stein scored an equaliser in the last minute.

I was walking along Albion Road after the final whistle when three Huns approached me and said, "You were lucky getting a draw." I said, "You were lucky getting a equaliser." Next thing I know, I got punched in the face and they ran off up Easter Road. I've hated the *********s ever since - although I did get my own back several years later - satisfyingly.

[Drummer]

I've been to Wembley on a number of occasions where in 100,000 at leat 90,000 plus were Scots fans. Also, the "goalpost" game, Ted Croker tried to ban the Scots from Wembley by not officially giving the SFA tickets..... that worked out well!

Cue the renditions of, "Ban us fae Wembley, Ye cannae ban us fae Wembley, Ban us fae Weeeeeeembley....." etc

In the 50s some fans went behind opposition goals and changed ends at half time. The was a bit of pushing and banter not much real trouble. I also recall a time when we played Rangers and Celtic at Easter road ic consecutive weeks, one week we were fienan bar steward the next we were blue nosed bar stewards. Hibs fielded same team both games. Nae subs then.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

I wasn't at the game, but Scotland-England in 1985 was unsegregated. The English fans were taken out of the ground by the police because things had started to kick off a bit. Don't think there would be bother between Scotland and England fans these days.

I was at the game, England didn't have any tickets allocated but had bought tickets in our sections, East and North terraces. Once game started it kicked off in all sections the English fans were in. Vastly outnumbered they were forced to the front under a hail of flag sticks, bottles, cans etc, then on to the track before being escorted right out off the stadium. It was a humiliation they were determined to make up for on subsequent trips to Hampden.

No trouble in the stadium at last England game, but it was strictly segregated, some battles after the game but not on scale of previous years.

[therealgavmac]

The 'goalposts' game was '77 - it was '79 when the ban went in as a result of the goings on 2 years prior - pissing with rain that day in '79 and about 70,000 of us in there - banner saying "So you tried to ban us Mr Croker" - oh and we won 1-0 ! There was no transport that day so we had to walk back to the city centre - by that time it had stopped raining.

Back on topic - I remember that directly behind the goals where the penalty was scored there was a thin strip of English fans from top to bottom who were hardly heard all game - we were jam packed in and on either side if them. Don't remember any bother - you know the big hole that would suddenly appear when it all kicked off.

Old age clouding the brain...... the 1-0 game was a Robertson penalty IIRC..... and the travel ban..... I remember drinking in a pub in Golders Green stowed with Scots then a walking parade to Wembley afterwards....

[SonOfDavidFrancey]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KlJSbPZmMp4

These threads are what bring me back to Hibs.net. Made me think
Of this

[scm70nyd1973]

Old age clouding the brain...... the 1-0 game was a Robertson penalty IIRC..... and the travel ban..... I remember drinking in a pub in Golders Green stowed with Scots then a walking parade to Wembley afterwards....

Yup that was it - Stevie Archibald 'won' is the penalty - I've still got a photo of it going in the onion bag. Old age does cloud things coz I can't recall how I got over to the game with the travel ban being on - I remember walking back and going through an area that mainly was lived in by black dudes and having a sing song with them as they were all bedecked with Scottish flags, scarves etc etc

[Iggy Pope]

ACAB...also the title of a cracking song by early 80s OI band The 4 Skins.

Post of the week!