What Can The Fans Do?

[Pretty Boy]

After yesterdays statment there seems to be lot of anger directed at the club and a lot of lashing out. Some of it seems bordering on uncontrolled which I don't think helps anybody.

I've always believed when you want change and want to make a point having a clear head, a clear strategy and a clear aim is important. Turning on fellow supporters and directing anger at all the wrong places helps no one.

So realistically in what way can those who wish to do so make their feelings clear? It seems a lot of people want to make a point but don't really know how to do it. I don't just mean in the short term and specifically Hibs fans either. Can fans from across a range of clubs work together to achieve whatever their aim is? Bearing in mind boycotts rarely gain much support and abusing the board only leads to an unpleasant atmosphere for the team to play in.

Given the Hibs statement is hardly the first indication that nothing further is going to happen I assume the wheels are already in motion re some plans of coordinated action? It would be a shame if an issue that some people feel so strongly about is reduced to scattergun criticisms across social media.

[Ozyhibby]

After yesterdays statment there seems to be lot of anger directed at the club and a lot of lashing out. Some of it seems bordering on uncontrolled which I don't think helps anybody.

I've always believed when you want change and want to make a point having a clear head, a clear strategy and a clear aim is important. Turning on fellow supporters and directing anger at all the wrong places helps no one.

So realistically in what way can those who wish to do so make their feelings clear? It seems a lot of people want to make a point but don't really know how to do it. I don't just mean in the short term and specifically Hibs fans either. Can fans from across a range of clubs work together to achieve whatever their aim is? Bearing in mind boycotts rarely gain much support and abusing the board only leads to an unpleasant atmosphere for the team to play in.

Given the Hibs statement is hardly the first indication that nothing further is going to happen I assume the wheels are already in motion re some plans of coordinated action? It would be a shame if an issue that some people feel so strongly about is reduced to scattergun criticisms across social media.

It's a nice idea but Hibs fans don't really have any organisation to take their views forward.
Even a banner at Easter road is likely to be confiscated before it is even unfolded.
As a support we just kind of accept things and muddle on.


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[silverhibee]

After yesterdays statment there seems to be lot of anger directed at the club and a lot of lashing out. Some of it seems bordering on uncontrolled which I don't think helps anybody.

I've always believed when you want change and want to make a point having a clear head, a clear strategy and a clear aim is important. Turning on fellow supporters and directing anger at all the wrong places helps no one.

So realistically in what way can those who wish to do so make their feelings clear? It seems a lot of people want to make a point but don't really know how to do it. I don't just mean in the short term and specifically Hibs fans either. Can fans from across a range of clubs work together to achieve whatever their aim is? Bearing in mind boycotts rarely gain much support and abusing the board only leads to an unpleasant atmosphere for the team to play in.

Given the Hibs statement is hardly the first indication that nothing further is going to happen I assume the wheels are already in motion re some plans of coordinated action? It would be a shame if an issue that some people feel so strongly about is reduced to scattergun criticisms across social media.

Hate to say it but that is what will happen, the board will be in for a tough ride on Saturday from the fans, most of it will be directed at Rod Petrie i would think, as for the players, can't see it affecting them, as long as they aren't getting slated with songs :greengrin the players should be just fine, a banner to let the board know fans feelings, if it got in to the ground I'm pretty sure it will be removed by security under directions from the board. :rolleyes:
Can HSA or would they release a statement about the matter.
Or, to gauge the supports feelings how about this, a song, :greengrin "stand up if you want an enquiry stand up if you want an enquiry etc etc. :greengrin

[Deansy]

The Aberdeen fans issued a statement that was the opposite view of their chairman - can't we do the same ?

[neil7908]

The trouble is the best way to hit any business is where it hurts - in their pocket.

However, that of course damages the team as it'll affect our budget and ability to retain our best players and bring in new ones come January. So I don't see that as a realistic option.

That's one of the things that's so frustrating about this whole situation and the boards statement. It's left a large number of fans feeling voiceless and out of touch with the game and club they love.

Whatever your views on EBT's I hope everyone would agree that's not a good thing. And it's much harder to 'move on' when fans don't feel listened to our respected.

I'm honestly not sure what we can do. The club won't change their mind that's for sure. I suspect long term the good that's been done since Leanne joined will be partially undone leading to an alienated support.

In the short term the statement is putting pressure on Lennon and the players. The atmosphere won't be great on Saturday and if we don't progress as as well as hoped this season then questions will be asked about the direction and leadership of the club. Again not good for the manager, players or organisation.

I'll be there on Saturday and don't think I'll miss any games because of this but I definitely feel deflated.

[Ozyhibby]

The trouble is the best way to hit any business is where it hurts - in their pocket.

However, that of course damages the team as it'll affect our budget and ability to retain our best players and bring in new ones come January. So I don't see that as a realistic option.

That's one of the things that's so frustrating about this whole situation and the boards statement. It's left a large number of fans feeling voiceless and out of touch with the game and club they love.

Whatever your views on EBT's I hope everyone would agree that's not a good thing. And it's much harder to 'move on' when fans don't feel listened to our respected.

I'm honestly not sure what we can do. The club won't change their mind that's for sure. I suspect long term the good that's been done since Leanne joined will be partially undone leading to an alienated support.

In the short term the statement is putting pressure on Lennon and the players. The atmosphere won't be great on Saturday and if we don't progress as as well as hoped this season then questions will be asked about the direction and leadership of the club. Again not good for the manager, players or organisation.

I'll be there on Saturday and don't think I'll miss any games because of this but I definitely feel deflated.

Sums up the situation rather well.


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[Viva_Palmeiras]

After yesterdays statment there seems to be lot of anger directed at the club and a lot of lashing out. Some of it seems bordering on uncontrolled which I don't think helps anybody.

I've always believed when you want change and want to make a point having a clear head, a clear strategy and a clear aim is important. Turning on fellow supporters and directing anger at all the wrong places helps no one.

So realistically in what way can those who wish to do so make their feelings clear? It seems a lot of people want to make a point but don't really know how to do it. I don't just mean in the short term and specifically Hibs fans either. Can fans from across a range of clubs work together to achieve whatever their aim is? Bearing in mind boycotts rarely gain much support and abusing the board only leads to an unpleasant atmosphere for the team to play in.

Given the Hibs statement is hardly the first indication that nothing further is going to happen I assume the wheels are already in motion re some plans of coordinated action? It would be a shame if an issue that some people feel so strongly about is reduced to scattergun criticisms across social media.


Who were here the guys (Hibees - was it WorcesterHibee?) that setup the first football survey? They passed the baton on and iirc surveys are now controlled by some other entity. Presumably they didn't sign a gagging order maybe they could canvass opinion again?

[Michael]

Buy as much of the club as possible.

[HappyAsHellas]

It was such a missed opportunity for the club - even if they believed the legal aspect they could have still called for an enquiry into the cheating everyone knows went on. The danger now is that no one will take the lead and get all fans from all clubs involved. I honestly think the fans way is the only way forward but have no idea how they get the ball rolling.

[lapsedhibee]

It was such a missed opportunity for the club - even if they believed the legal aspect they could have still called for an enquiry into the cheating everyone knows went on. The danger now is that no one will take the lead and get all fans from all clubs involved. I honestly think the fans way is the only way forward but have no idea how they get the ball rolling.

I think Celtc will continue to press the SFA, just as they did when Jim Farry messed them around. I don't think they'll let it lie just because a variety of other club chairmen toe the SFA line about raking over old coals.

[Hibernia&Alba]

What about something basic, like a petition at games? If the board are presented with the names of ten thousand Hibs fans, they will at least understand the extent of the feeling.

[jacomo]

What about something basic, like a petition at games? If the board are presented with the names of ten thousand Hibs fans, they will at least understand the extent of the feeling.


:agree:

Plus I'm sure there will be national petitions, protests at games etc.

Fans joining together on this could not be ignored - lots of ways to raise the issue without hurting Hibs financially.

I think the Scottish government might need to step in because SFA is useless. As is SNPs behaviour legislation of course.

[marinello59]

It's a nice idea but Hibs fans don't really have any organisation to take their views forward. Even a banner at Easter road is likely to be confiscated before it is even unfolded.
As a support we just kind of accept things and muddle on.


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That is true of fans of all clubs. Statements will be issued but they will really achieve nothing on their own. If people really want to take this on and crowd fund etc then things will need to be organised on a national basis. Is there an existing organisation that would be best placed to co-ordinate things?

[SirDavidsNapper]

The fans can aim a "cheats" chant in the direction of Sevco when we play them at ER. Wind them up and never let them forget. Petitions, verbal abuse aimed at our board etc isn't they way forward and doesn't reflect the view of fans who agreed with the club statement. Anger should be directed at Sevco not Hibernian.

[lapsedhibee]

The fans can aim a "cheats" chant in the direction of Sevco when we play them at ER. Wind them up and never let them forget. Petitions, verbal abuse aimed at our board etc isn't they way forward and doesn't reflect the view of fans who agreed with the club statement. Anger should be directed at Sevco not Hibernian.

What have Sevco done wrong? All their titles were honestly acquired, weren't they? :confused:

[Ozyhibby]

What have Sevco done wrong? All their titles were honestly acquired, weren't they? :confused:

And they think it's quite funny that our board sided with them anyway. They won't care a bit. Has anyone ever been upset by anything an opposition team sung at us?
A lot of us will probably just have to get used to the fact that our club isn't what we would wish it to be.


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[Joe6-2]

What about something basic, like a petition at games? If the board are presented with the names of ten thousand Hibs fans, they will at least understand the extent of the feeling.

Is there a way we could encourage every club to do this?

[neil7908]

The fans can aim a "cheats" chant in the direction of Sevco when we play them at ER. Wind them up and never let them forget. Petitions, verbal abuse aimed at our board etc isn't they way forward and doesn't reflect the view of fans who agreed with the club statement. Anger should be directed at Sevco not Hibernian.

Sevco and their fans literally couldn't care less. Ditto the players. We as a club have validated their view point so how can we have a go at them for something our club also supports?

Also, how is chanting at Sevco fans during a game actually supporting our team?

I won't be hurling abuse at the board but it's going to happen. How it somehow reflects on the fans who do agree with the statement I'm not clear. Your free to say nothing, shout down those dishing out the abuse or start a petition or chant in support of the board.

[lyonhibs]

Focus 100% on supporting the team would be the best plan of action, as it always is.

Read a lot of stuff about the statement ruining the feel good factor around the club. When it comes to match day atmosphere, that only happens if the fans in attendance make it so which one would hope won't be the case.

[Stonewall]

The guy behind the Rangers Tax Case blog is currently investigating whether there are grounds for requesting a Judicial Review. If it comes to anything it would be crowd funded and seems to be the best way forward.

[Winston Ingram]

After yesterdays statment there seems to be lot of anger directed at the club and a lot of lashing out. Some of it seems bordering on uncontrolled which I don't think helps anybody.

I've always believed when you want change and want to make a point having a clear head, a clear strategy and a clear aim is important. Turning on fellow supporters and directing anger at all the wrong places helps no one.

So realistically in what way can those who wish to do so make their feelings clear? It seems a lot of people want to make a point but don't really know how to do it. I don't just mean in the short term and specifically Hibs fans either. Can fans from across a range of clubs work together to achieve whatever their aim is? Bearing in mind boycotts rarely gain much support and abusing the board only leads to an unpleasant atmosphere for the team to play in.

Given the Hibs statement is hardly the first indication that nothing further is going to happen I assume the wheels are already in motion re some plans of coordinated action? It would be a shame if an issue that some people feel so strongly about is reduced to scattergun criticisms across social media.


I'd be in favour of this.

[GreenLake]

SPFL fans should collect money for legal and public relations professionals to represent them and make sure that club executives are not able to write the narrative for this shameful episode in our football history.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I'd be in favour of this.

Best thing in my view is a mass boycott of huns games at easter road - it will send a clear message to clubs, most importantly it will be very visible on TV and it will damage the tv 'product'- plus it would not hit hibs too hard because they would still get the season ticket money.

Personally thats what i am going to do - although i habe no faith it will change anything, fitb fans are notoriously bad in this country at using their collective power.

Edit - i would also contribute to any crowdfunding, but judicial review would be enormously expensive.

[WhileTheChief..]

Saturdays game won't be affected by this at all.

The wailing and gnashing of teeth is pretty much a social media thing. I've Yet to hear it mentioned once in 'real' life.

I just don't think that you have will support for any plans within the Hibs support generally.

[High-On-Hibs]

Saturdays game won't be affected by this at all.

The wailing and gnashing of teeth is pretty much a social media thing. I've Yet to hear it mentioned once in 'real' life.

I just don't think that you have will support for any plans within the Hibs support generally.

That's because so many people won't even be aware of it. Those who i've spoken to who are aware of it, are furious about it. Those who don't take to things like social media and forums are left scratching their heads, because they have no sense of any of it.

[Pretty Boy]

Saturdays game won't be affected by this at all.

The wailing and gnashing of teeth is pretty much a social media thing. I've Yet to hear it mentioned once in 'real' life.

I just don't think that you have will support for any plans within the Hibs support generally.

That's pretty much what I was getting at in my OP. Some people seem to be really, really angry but there doesn't seem to be any focus to it at all. It's just the online equivalent of shouting and screaming at random people.

It's been pretty obvious there is going to be no further enquiry for some time now yet there's no collective of fans even semi organised? If nothing comes of this the people who are really angry but have done nothing to prepare and more culpible than those who are indifferent.

[Pretty Boy]

That's because so many people won't even be aware of it. Those who i've spoken to who are aware of it, are furious about it. Those who don't take to things like social media and forums are left scratching their heads, because they have no sense of any of it.

Cheer up, Barcelona won last night.

[Caversham Green]

The first thing to remember is that an enquiry might still happen - the most powerful club in the country is lobbying for one - but the Hibs board have decided that there is no benefit to be gained from one by our club, or at least the potential costs outweigh the potential benefits. The Hibs board is not the enemy.

It seems to me that there are two avenues to be explored if you feel Celtc are not going to get their wish. The obvious one is to lobby your MSP and Westminster MP. The latter will probably defer to the former, but at least make them have to do that. This is the governance of our national game that's in question and Parliament should get involved if the game can't look after itself regardless of FIFA's views on the matter.

The second option would be crowdfunding our own enquiry, but that would be fraught with difficulty as the costs would likely be open-ended and we could expect little co-operation from the authorities. I suspect that an initial assessment would come to the same conclusion as the SPFL's one - that there is nothing tangible to be gained by it.

I think we also need to recognise that Murray's Rangers are unlikely to have their titles stripped as Lord Nimmo-Smith sailed that boat over the horizon long ago. Any enquiry would simply be about the governance and conduct of the various bodies at the time and now. Personally I believe that is worth examining, but the Scottish game is not rich and maybe the money, time and effort would be better spent in improving things for the future, the first action being the removal of the grossly incompetent Stewart Regan.

[green day]

That's pretty much what I was getting at in my OP. Some people seem to be really, really angry but there doesn't seem to be any focus to it at all. It's just the online equivalent of shouting and screaming at random people.

It's been pretty obvious there is going to be no further enquiry for some time now yet there's no collective of fans even semi organised? If nothing comes of this the people who are really angry but have done nothing to prepare and more culpible than those who are indifferent.

What about Supporters Direct Scotland?

As well as fans taking control of clubs, their remit appears to also cover improving governance, encourage better and more formal relationships between clubs and their supporters.

Not sure of any other supporters body that potentially covers all teams, but again not sure that SDS would touch this with a bargepole.

[JeMeSouviens]

What about Supporters Direct Scotland?

As well as fans taking control of clubs, their remit appears to also cover improving governance, encourage better and more formal relationships between clubs and their supporters.

Not sure of any other supporters body that potentially covers all teams, but again not sure that SDS would touch this with a bargepole.

Is this a rebrand of that? Think it might be. They are calling for an enquiry ...

http://scottishfsa.org/national-fans-organisation-backs-spfl-calls-for-a-review-of-historical-governance-issues/

[Captain Trips]

It is hard at times just concentrating on Hibs but thats what I would prefer to do. Im happy enough to be able to rib any of my Rangers fans friends that their club is dead etc etc.

I have honestly had enough of Rangers oldco, their new club has already made sure they are about as popular and will forever get it tight vs us.

[worcesterhibby]

Who were here the guys (Hibees - was it WorcesterHibee?) that setup the first football survey? They passed the baton on and iirc surveys are now controlled by some other entity. Presumably they didn't sign a gagging order maybe they could canvass opinion again?

Can't take credit for that I'm afraid..wasn't me.

[JeMeSouviens]

Can't take credit for that I'm afraid..wasn't me.

It was Cheshire Hibee - seen one obscure English county, seen them all. :wink:

[Andy74]

After yesterdays statment there seems to be lot of anger directed at the club and a lot of lashing out. Some of it seems bordering on uncontrolled which I don't think helps anybody.

I've always believed when you want change and want to make a point having a clear head, a clear strategy and a clear aim is important. Turning on fellow supporters and directing anger at all the wrong places helps no one.

So realistically in what way can those who wish to do so make their feelings clear? It seems a lot of people want to make a point but don't really know how to do it. I don't just mean in the short term and specifically Hibs fans either. Can fans from across a range of clubs work together to achieve whatever their aim is? Bearing in mind boycotts rarely gain much support and abusing the board only leads to an unpleasant atmosphere for the team to play in.

Given the Hibs statement is hardly the first indication that nothing further is going to happen I assume the wheels are already in motion re some plans of coordinated action? It would be a shame if an issue that some people feel so strongly about is reduced to scattergun criticisms across social media.

What is it the fans actually want?

I haven't really seen a consistent aim of any action.

It also has to be realistic in what is achievable in law.

[we are hibs]

Talk of boycotts and not attending games is almost as pathetic as the statement. Hibs are so far in the wrong here it's unreal but what difference is it going to make to Petrie, who is clearly still running the show, who is playing a waiting game to get his head role at the SFA? He doesn't care about hibs or the hibs fans.

[Ozyhibby]

Talk of boycotts and not attending games is almost as pathetic as the statement. Hibs are so far in the wrong here it's unreal but what difference is it going to make to Petrie, who is clearly still running the show, who is playing a waiting game to get his head role at the SFA? He doesn't care about hibs or the hibs fans.

Think you are the first person to mention boycott on this thread?


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[High-On-Hibs]

What is it the fans actually want?

I haven't really seen a consistent aim of any action.

It also has to be realistic in what is achievable in law.

Recognition from the SFA that The Rangers are a new entity with no major titles to their name would be a good start. Recognition that they were given a helping hand into the bottom tier of the Scottish Professional Football League (not punished) would also be helpful. Also futher details on the "new rules" which will apparently prevent a repeat of before and an explaination as to why they weren't implemented before.

I think this would satisfy most, if not all fans who are outraged with the current outcome.

[JeMeSouviens]

How about a minute's applause (for the dead Huns) in the 54th minute?

There would have to be some publicity out to say that was what it was for but it would be obvious how much of the stadium agreed (or not?)

[Badger0762]

What is it the fans actually want?

I haven't really seen a consistent aim of any action.

It also has to be realistic in what is achievable in law.


Good question. I've talked about this with a few and most agree that they don't really care about continuing to punish Sevco, it's more about who knew what, when, and who was complicit in it all. I'm bothered by the levels or either corruption or incompetence (or likely elements of both) that exists with the SFA. If an investigation comes to show the top levels of the SFA knew, and either covered it up, or turned a blind eye to it all, they have to go. I may be wrong but it seems that there are too many people in the same or similar positions who were there or there about when this was all happening. Some heads in the SFA need to roll, and if Mr Petrie is one of them, so be it. That is achievable with an independent investigation imo.

[JeMeSouviens]

Good question. I've talked about this with a few and most agree that they don't really care about continuing to punish Sevco, it's more about who knew what, when, and who was complicit in it all. I'm bothered by the levels or either corruption or incompetence (or likely elements of both) that exists with the SFA. If an investigation comes to show the top levels of the SFA knew, and either covered it up, or turned a blind eye to it all, they have to go. I may be wrong but it seems that there are too many people in the same or similar positions who were there or there about when this was all happening. Some heads in the SFA need to roll, and if Mr Petrie is one of them, so be it. That is achievable with an independent investigation imo.

:agree:

We need heads on sticks to make sure the next set of incumbents know they have no leeway to *******ise the rules.

[JeMeSouviens]

I also want an asterisk in the official records against every competition won by cheats. 100% not bothered about trying to punish Sevco for what Old Rangers did.

[Keith_M]

I think the answer to the question is, sadly, nothing. We don't have a genuine concensus among the fans and, unlike Aberdeen, no particularly strong fans group to put our views forward.


For whatever reason, every club except Celtc have decided to move on and I think we just have to accept defeat and leave them to it.

[lapsedhibee]

Good question. I've talked about this with a few and most agree that they don't really care about continuing to punish Sevco, it's more about who knew what, when, and who was complicit in it all. I'm bothered by the levels or either corruption or incompetence (or likely elements of both) that exists with the SFA. If an investigation comes to show the top levels of the SFA knew, and either covered it up, or turned a blind eye to it all, they have to go. I may be wrong but it seems that there are too many people in the same or similar positions who were there or there about when this was all happening. Some heads in the SFA need to roll, and if Mr Petrie is one of them, so be it. That is achievable with an independent investigation imo.

Continuing to punish? When have Sevco ever been punished? :confused:

[Andy74]

Recognition from the SFA that The Rangers are a new entity with no major titles to their name would be a good start. Recognition that they were given a helping hand into the bottom tier of the Scottish Professional Football League (not punished) would also be helpful. Also futher details on the "new rules" which will apparently prevent a repeat of before and an explaination as to why they weren't implemented before.

I think this would satisfy most, if not all fans who are outraged with the current outcome.

I think your response illustrates why this won't happen.

A focused review of whether current rules and governance arrangements might be of some use but the waters are too muddied with expectations like yours above. Everyone seems to have a pretty different idea on what this is about.

[Tornadoes70]

I think your response illustrates why this won't happen.

A focused review of whether current rules and governance arrangements might be of some use but the waters are too muddied with expectations like yours above. Everyone seems to have a pretty different idea on what this is about.

Two key points to start with would be -

Were the rules regarding the ineligible registrations adequately enforced?

Was Lord Nimmo Smith's interpretation there was no sporting advantage obtained by the EBT's the right one especially post Supreme Court ruling?

Its not rocket science. However I'm trusting in the Board that they've taken a decision in the best interests of Hibernian.

:flag:

[Pretty Boy]

What is it the fans actually want?

I haven't really seen a consistent aim of any action.

It also has to be realistic in what is achievable in law.

That's exactly the problem.

It's a lot of people being really angry about something but not really knowing what they want to fix it. That obviously doesn't apply to everyone but a fair few seem to just be blowing up at anyone who disagrees with them.

If there was a clear objective and it was communicated well then I could see myself getting on board. As it is it just seems like a bit of a rabble.

[WhileTheChief..]

Continuing to punish? When have Sevco ever been punished? :confused:
Dress it up any way you like but Rangers fans had to watch their team play their way through the divisions. That would be classed as a punishment in most people's book if we leave the semantics aside.

[ballengeich]

I think the answer to the question is, sadly, nothing. We don't have a genuine concensus among the fans and, unlike Aberdeen, no particularly strong fans group to put our views forward.


For whatever reason, every club except Celtc have decided to move on and I think we just have to accept defeat and leave them to it.

We'll not know whether other clubs have moved on until after the next SPFL meeting on 21/9. At the last meeting there was a vote for an inquiry. Some who didn't support that have come out in public, in what looks to me like a co-ordinated effort with the SFA to cover things up, but there may still be a silent majority prepared to act as a group even if they're unwilling to face the consequences of making individual public statements.

[Bostonhibby]

Dress it up any way you like but Rangers fans had to watch their team play their way through the divisions. That would be classed as a punishment in most people's book if we leave the semantics aside.

That's because the original club decided to go into liquidation to avoid paying their debts, the new club applied to join Scottish football in the same way the other clubs that were trying to get in did. The League did them a favour and granted them entry and a licence well ahead of the teams that technically qualified.

It wasn't a punishment, its the same thing any new side has to do when they are allowed in, or qualify to get in, Edinburgh City being an example.

[Ozyhibby]

What is it the fans actually want?

I haven't really seen a consistent aim of any action.

It also has to be realistic in what is achievable in law.

I want complete transparency on who knew what and when. I want to know why Andrew Dickson is still employed by the SFA in a compliance role after administering the illegal dual contract scheme. I want to know why Campbell Ogilvie was allowed to remain as president of the SFA long after it was discovered that he helped set up the dual contract scheme. I want to know why Greame Souness received an EBT 10 years after leaving Rangers about the same time he bought Tugay from them using £1.3m of Blackburn's money. I want to know why Walter Smith was given an EBT while manager of Everton?
Why did the SFA let the SPFL set up the LNS enquiry when the SFA is in charge of player registrations? Why has there not been a single disciplinary procedure from the SFA despite Rangers playing these players in the Scottish cup?
The SFA were informed after the Boumsong raid that there was a problem with Rangers contracts and HMRC asked for all SFA copies to be sent to them. Why did they not investigate then?
I could go on and on and on. There are hundreds of questions needing answered.
As far as I'm concerned I would take an enquiry that promised no title stripping as long as there was absolute full disclosure of everything that went on. Kind of like a plea bargain. You can keep the titles but we want absolutely every bit of information on every individual involved.
From that it's just possible that we can put in place a system of governance that everyone in Scottish football can trust. Without full disclosure, we have no chance.



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[lapsedhibee]

Dress it up any way you like but Rangers fans had to watch their team play their way through the divisions. That would be classed as a punishment in most people's book if we leave the semantics aside.
No need to dress it up any way at all, and especially not as huns, the MSM and now you have done.

The Thes were done a huge favour being allowed in to the fourth tier. They've not been punished for anything.

[WhileTheChief..]

I don't disagree.

It it would have been absurd to admit Edinburgh City over Rangers though and would effectively have ended Rangers existence. A club of that size with the fan base and stadium with nowhere to play and instead bring in another part time outfit that would contribute nothing financially to the game just doesn't make sense.

Now I totally understand that would have been like Utopia to a lot of people but in reality it was just a crazy proposal and wishful thinking.

[oldbutdim]

No need to dress it up any way at all, and especially not as huns, the MSM and now you have done.

The Thes were done a huge favour being allowed in to the fourth tier. They've not been punished for anything.

It's strange how 'punishments' and 'consequences' have become interchangeable in the last few years.

[MyJo]

Any boycott of league games by supporters is only going to hurt the clubs we support and the SPFL who are actually pushing for an enquiry.

The problem is the SFA so the obvious solution for any boycott would be things that are run by the SFA including the Scottish Cup & National teams, any events at Hampden and all the associated sponsors of these things.

[lapsedhibee]

I don't disagree.

It it would have been absurd to admit Edinburgh City over Rangers though and would effectively have ended Rangers existence. A club of that size with the fan base and stadium with nowhere to play and instead bring in another part time outfit that would contribute nothing financially to the game just doesn't make sense.

Now I totally understand that would have been like Utopia to a lot of people but in reality it was just a crazy proposal and wishful thinking.

Just like it would have been absurd to run a top tier without The Thes in it. Crazy. Financial Armageddon.

[Tornadoes70]

I don't disagree.

It it would have been absurd to admit Edinburgh City over Rangers though and would effectively have ended Rangers existence. A club of that size with the fan base and stadium with nowhere to play and instead bring in another part time outfit that would contribute nothing financially to the game just doesn't make sense.

Now I totally understand that would have been like Utopia to a lot of people but in reality it was just a crazy proposal and wishful thinking.

There's a great deal of truth in this. The governing bodies and a number of clubs took this viewpoint at the time which was the pragmatic one. I'm not saying it was the morally correct one as it wasn't, however they had a dilemma and a decision to make and chose what they thought to be the wiser one.

:flag:

[Bostonhibby]

I don't disagree.

It it would have been absurd to admit Edinburgh City over Rangers though and would effectively have ended Rangers existence. A club of that size with the fan base and stadium with nowhere to play and instead bring in another part time outfit that would contribute nothing financially to the game just doesn't make sense.

Now I totally understand that would have been like Utopia to a lot of people but in reality it was just a crazy proposal and wishful thinking.

Fair comment, but what we are seeing is the rules becoming flexible there but no one in authority able to apply a bit of flexible thinking to the previous rules which they say leaves them with no remedy to the now defuncts conduct.

A wee bit of similar imagination could see the current encumbents saying its a civil matter, we believe there's enough info now, including Murrays own statement about gaining an advantage and the now obvious illegality of the hidden side letters (not the EBT's which are another issue) and voiding the trophies gained in that period in some way. An asterisk in the record books would do me.

To my mind that takes some of the pressure off and restores a bit faith for the future they are asking us to buy into.

The separate issue of the enquiry needs to then run it's course. It looks like a battle of those who have the info and the need to supress it, and the stamina and finances of those who really want to do something about it. The rangers are now ahead on points as they get to dip in and out of the history of the now defunct Glasgow rangers when it suits them.

I only know two huns and they've both sent me jokey wee texts thanking Hibs for our support.

[lapsedhibee]

It's strange how 'punishments' and 'consequences' have become interchangeable in the last few years.
Indeed. The drip, drip, drip of slime coming out of the fat slug Traynor's gob and repeated by a supine MSM over the last five years has had its intended effect.

[SunshineOnLeith]

Think you are the first person to mention boycott on this thread?


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There's a poster on the first page who says they're boycotting rangers games st Easter road.

[JeMeSouviens]

There's a great deal of truth in this. The governing bodies and a number of clubs took this viewpoint at the time which was the pragmatic one. I'm not saying it was the morally correct one as it wasn't, however they had a dilemma and a decision to make and chose what they thought to be the wiser one.



The governing bodies and most of the SPL clubs (I'm now pretty certain that included ours) would have put the New Huns straight into the top league and tried to carry on as "normal" in the name of pragmatism. It was only threatened boycotts by supporters that stopped them.

The new club did get a leg up into the SFL bottom division but as there had never been a hard and fast set of rules about who (if anyone) was allowed in*, most people were content to let that go. If the New Huns follow their predecessors down the pan then Third Rangers might not get that so easy now that there's the Highland/Lowland pyramid and play off.

* see for example, the fast track given to ICT.

[High-On-Hibs]

I think your response illustrates why this won't happen.

A focused review of whether current rules and governance arrangements might be of some use but the waters are too muddied with expectations like yours above. Everyone seems to have a pretty different idea on what this is about.

My expectations are that a new club is treated like a new club, who can't pick and choose their ties with a previous club. Why is that too much to expect within the confines of the law?

[High-On-Hibs]

There's a great deal of truth in this. The governing bodies and a number of clubs took this viewpoint at the time which was the pragmatic one. I'm not saying it was the morally correct one as it wasn't, however they had a dilemma and a decision to make and chose what they thought to be the wiser one.

:flag:

Putting money before all else isn't the sign of wisdom. It's the sign of a broken system, where all rules and laws can be bent and all morals tossed aside for dirty money.

[heretoday]

Everyone knows Rangers are a bunch of crooks and they've been well hammered these last few years.

Let's get on with the football. :flag:

[lapsedhibee]

Everyone knows Rangers are a bunch of crooks and they've been well hammered these last few years.

Let's get on with the football. :flag:

Do you mean punished by their relegation?

[JeMeSouviens]

Everyone knows Rangers are a bunch of crooks and they've been well hammered these last few years.

Let's get on with the football. :flag:

So if Dave "glib and shameless liar" King & co are up to anything crooked now and the SFA know all about it but are turning a blind eye, because ... ARMAGEDDON ... that's ok?

Let's just get on with the football?

[Thecat23]

Everyone knows Rangers are a bunch of crooks and they've been well hammered these last few years.

Let's get on with the football. :flag:

No they haven't, they are a new team who had rules bent to allow them back into the league. Just pushing aside teams like Spartans etc who have every right to be allowed a vote in.

Folk who think The Rangers have been punished seriously need to have a word with themselves. They have had everything chucked at them to help them.

[Betty Boop]

Saturdays game won't be affected by this at all.

The wailing and gnashing of teeth is pretty much a social media thing. I've Yet to hear it mentioned once in 'real' life.

I just don't think that you have will support for any plans within the Hibs support generally.


:agree:

[lucky]

No they haven't, they are a new team who had rules bent to allow them back into the league. Just pushing aside teams like Spartans etc who have every right to be allowed a vote in.

Folk who think The Rangers have been punished seriously need to have a word with themselves. They have had everything chucked at them to help them.

Are you suggesting Spartans should have been in the league before the new Rangers? Every club in Scotland has benefited with them starting in the bottom league. Spartans maybe a well run club but generally would add little to the professional leagues.

[lapsedhibee]

Are you suggesting Spartans should have been in the league before the new Rangers? Every club in Scotland has benefited with them starting in the bottom league. Spartans maybe a well run club but generally would add little to the professional leagues.

I would put it slightly differently. Every club in Scotland has suffered from the Old and New Thes having had a different set of rules, or no rules at all, applied to them for (at least) the last couple of decades.

[Allez Hibs]

The fans should stand up for what's right for future generations.

[Thecat23]

Are you suggesting Spartans should have been in the league before the new Rangers? Every club in Scotland has benefited with them starting in the bottom league. Spartans maybe a well run club but generally would add little to the professional leagues.

No it should have been put down to a vote, I don't care how big The Rangers are they had no right to walk into the league. The attitude you have against small clubs is very condescending! Just because they are small they shouldn't be treated the same?

[High-On-Hibs]

Are you suggesting Spartans should have been in the league before the new Rangers? Every club in Scotland has benefited with them starting in the bottom league. Spartans maybe a well run club but generally would add little to the professional leagues.

What did Spartans do wrong not to get into the league? They did everything that was required at the time to earn their place there and were meekly swept aside to make room for a new club. For someone who claims to be all for equality, you don't half seem to have a vendetta against the little guy.

[Bostonhibby]

Everyone knows Rangers are a bunch of crooks and they've been well hammered these last few years.

Let's get on with the football. :flag:They got a £250k fine as a consequence of some part of their conduct but that's all I recall from the authorities and it wasn't paid unless they did it relatively recently.

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[Keith_M]

Are you suggesting Spartans should have been in the league before the new Rangers? Every club in Scotland has benefited with them starting in the bottom league. Spartans maybe a well run club but generally would add little to the professional leagues.


I think that would actually have helped clean up Scottish Football, with the removal of the largest sectarian organisation in Scotland.

My opinion is that Celtc would also have been weakened* in the long run without their ugly sisters, so it would have been for the good of Scottish Football as a whole




* If you don't believe me, check out the attendances at Celtc Park between 2012-2016, compared to what they were in the ten previous seasons and since. I'm not talking about tickets, sold, but how many actually turned up. They have a symbiotic relationship and suffer without each other.

[oldbutdim]

They got a £250k fine as a consequence of some part of their conduct but that's all I recall from the authorities and it wasn't paid unless they did it relatively recently.

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They appealed it but eventually coughed up a couple of years back I think.

[JeMeSouviens]

They got a £250k fine as a consequence of some part of their conduct but that's all I recall from the authorities and it wasn't paid unless they did it relatively recently.

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The Old Huns have had 2 rounds of punishment:

- Craig Whyte era for not paying any tax and ending up in admin - fined £160K and given a 12 month signing ban (later moved so it only covered periods they couldn't sign anyone in. :rolleyes:)
- EBT era for "imperfectly registering" players but not to "sporting advantage". :rolleyes: - fined £250K

Sevco agreed to "inherit" these punishments as part of the 5 way agreement and afaik they've paid up.

[SunshineOnLeith]

What did Spartans do wrong not to get into the league? They did everything that was required at the time to earn their place there and were meekly swept aside to make room for a new club. For someone who claims to be all for equality, you don't half seem to have a vendetta against the little guy.

Spartans didn't apply for the vacant spot. If they had, they could have forced a vote

[JIm]

Getting back to the original point could this not be taken on by the Hibernian Supporters Association at Sunnyside?

Canvas all their members and release a statement? Alternatively to this they work with all known supporters branches and canvas opinions as well as a quick online for those not members of branches? Surely that would allow for more comprehensive feedback?

[Bostonhibby]

They appealed it but eventually coughed up a couple of years back I think.[emoji106]

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[Bostonhibby]

The Old Huns have had 2 rounds of punishment:

- Craig Whyte era for not paying any tax and ending up in admin - fined £160K and given a 12 month signing ban (later moved so it only covered periods they couldn't sign anyone in. :rolleyes:)
- EBT era for "imperfectly registering" players but not to "sporting advantage". :rolleyes: - fined £250K

Sevco agreed to "inherit" these punishments as part of the 5 way agreement and afaik they've paid up.[emoji106]

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[YanYansen]

I want complete transparency on who knew what and when. I want to know why Andrew Dickson is still employed by the SFA in a compliance role after administering the illegal dual contract scheme. I want to know why Campbell Ogilvie was allowed to remain as president of the SFA long after it was discovered that he helped set up the dual contract scheme. I want to know why Greame Souness received an EBT 10 years after leaving Rangers about the same time he bought Tugay from them using £1.3m of Blackburn's money. I want to know why Walter Smith was given an EBT while manager of Everton?
Why did the SFA let the SPFL set up the LNS enquiry when the SFA is in charge of player registrations? Why has there not been a single disciplinary procedure from the SFA despite Rangers playing these players in the Scottish cup?
The SFA were informed after the Boumsong raid that there was a problem with Rangers contracts and HMRC asked for all SFA copies to be sent to them. Why did they not investigate then?
I could go on and on and on. There are hundreds of questions needing answered.
As far as I'm concerned I would take an enquiry that promised no title stripping as long as there was absolute full disclosure of everything that went on. Kind of like a plea bargain. You can keep the titles but we want absolutely every bit of information on every individual involved.
From that it's just possible that we can put in place a system of governance that everyone in Scottish football can trust. Without full disclosure, we have no chance.



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Superbly put, and sums up my position an aw.

This thing really is about more than The Huns now (much as they would struggle to comprehend that). This is about the Scottish game's integrity as a whole, and that concerns everyone, whatever team you support.

If the people who make the rules that we have to abide by feel that they can ignore them themselves, then this is a fundamental problem.

And I think you'd have to be thick as mince not to see quite clearly that at best governing bods have been turning a blind eye to favour a club that feels its interests are more important than anyone else's, or at worst engaging in blatant institutional bias because they also feel that the Hun should be treated differently to say, Livi, or Spartans.Witness athletics: all sport is built on a trust - in fact, an assumption - of fair play. If that foundation begins to be questioned, then it will never just "go away", which is why all the "moving on" crap is so much hot air.

[puff the dragon]

It's time to move on and stop wasting energy on this - I know the titles are tained, you know the titles are tainted and they know the titles are tainted.

What the board have advised is that anything further will likely lead to wasted effort, resource and time in a legal game of ping pong to get to the same conclusion.

If Hibs were robbed of a title or cup due to the EBT's then I might have more interest in pursuing an official investigation, but the reality is the only team that would benefit from any title stripping would be Celtic and I despise them as much as Rangers so who cares about them.

Let them keep ther tainted titles - we all know the truth (and so do they).

[Ozyhibby]

It's time to move on and stop wasting energy on this - I know the titles are tained, you know the titles are tainted and they know the titles are tainted.

What the board have advised is that anything further will likely lead to wasted effort, resource and time in a legal game of ping pong to get to the same conclusion.

If Hibs were robbed of a title or cup due to the EBT's then I might have more interest in pursuing an official investigation, but the reality is the only team that would benefit from any title stripping would be Celtic and I despise them as much as Rangers so who cares about them.

Let them keep ther tainted titles - we all know the truth (and so do they).

And when it happens again? Just move on then as well?


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[lyonhibs]

My expectations are that a new club is treated like a new club, who can't pick and choose their ties with a previous club. Why is that too much to expect within the confines of the law?

How would "the law" implement that on an ongoing basis?? Would you expect Rangers fans to be hauled up before the beaks for misrepresentation if they ever mentioned that "Going for 55" pish??

What law is to be activated against Newco to prevent them picking and choosing their ties with the old club?

It seems decidedly vague to me. Whatever happens or not, you can bet no judgement will stop Der Hun and their fanbase being as backwards and odious as ever they were so that's why I'm not too bothered about more talking shop legal stuff.

[JIm]

It's time to move on and stop wasting energy on this - I know the titles are tained, you know the titles are tainted and they know the titles are tainted.

What the board have advised is that anything further will likely lead to wasted effort, resource and time in a legal game of ping pong to get to the same conclusion.

If Hibs were robbed of a title or cup due to the EBT's then I might have more interest in pursuing an official investigation, but the reality is the only team that would benefit from any title stripping would be Celtic and I despise them as much as Rangers so who cares about them.

Let them keep ther tainted titles - we all know the truth (and so do they).

I could be wrong but I think whilst there is an appetite from some fans to see titles stripped there is no real expectation that this is going to happen by the majority. The real issue is around governance and integrity. That is why people are so disgusted by Hibs statement and the idea that we just sweep it aside and move on. As has been said what happens if something similar arises in the Scottish football in future? Just forget it and move on?

[JeMeSouviens]

How would "the law" implement that on an ongoing basis?? Would you expect Rangers fans to be hauled up before the beaks for misrepresentation if they ever mentioned that "Going for 55" pish??

What law is to be activated against Newco to prevent them picking and choosing their ties with the old club?

It seems decidedly vague to me. Whatever happens or not, you can bet no judgement will stop Der Hun and their fanbase being as backwards and odious as ever they were so that's why I'm not too bothered about more talking shop legal stuff.

I think that's a fair point and playing Devil's Avocado for a minute, it does strike me that about the only thing sustaining the New Huns as they get humiliated from pillar to post is their victim mentality and circle the wagons defiance.

But, call me a naive idealist, I just can't get past the idea that cheats shouldn't be declared winners.

[MyJo]

And when it happens again? Just move on then as well?


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New rules have been introduced to prevent it from happening again:

https://www.sfm.scot/sfa.pdf - section 3

[Badger0762]

Continuing to punish? When have Sevco ever been punished? :confused:

Understand and know what you mean, don't get me wrong, hate them with a passion. However, technically, they are a new club, liquidated, kicked into the lowest professional division taking another defunct teams place.
SFA are a major issue for me and the "weed" will simply grow back without pulling the root. Just my opinion, but a major part of that root is in the SFA.

[JeMeSouviens]

I could be wrong but I think whilst there is an appetite from some fans to see titles stripped there is no real expectation that this is going to happen by the majority. The real issue is around governance and integrity. That is why people are so disgusted by Hibs statement and the idea that we just sweep it aside and move on. As has been said what happens if something similar arises in the Scottish football in future? Just forget it and move on?

Yes, the 2 things are separate goals. The competitions should be voided because that's just natural justice but it is also vital that we have some hope of a level playing field for the future. Sweep, sweep just pervades the mentality that rules can be bent to whatever suits short term finances.

[Ozyhibby]

New rules have been introduced to prevent it from happening again:

https://www.sfm.scot/sfa.pdf - section 3

Those are just generalities. Do you have a link to the actual new rules?


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[The Harp Awakes]

It's time to move on and stop wasting energy on this - I know the titles are tained, you know the titles are tainted and they know the titles are tainted.

What the board have advised is that anything further will likely lead to wasted effort, resource and time in a legal game of ping pong to get to the same conclusion.

If Hibs were robbed of a title or cup due to the EBT's then I might have more interest in pursuing an official investigation, but the reality is the only team that would benefit from any title stripping would be Celtic and I despise them as much as Rangers so who cares about them.

Let them keep ther tainted titles - we all know the truth (and so do they).

As so many others have said, this is not about stripping league titles or even Sevco now. It's about the SFA's conduct and the fact that the same guys are still in charge. If the SFA have nothing to fear let them instigate an independent review. The fact they are resisting a review makes it look like they have something to hide.

[MyJo]

Those are just generalities. Do you have a link to the actual new rules?


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here is last seasons http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/SFAPublications/ScottishFAPublications2016-17/Scottish%20FA%20Handbook%202016-17.pdf


7.2 Written agreements between Player and Club
7.2.1 In the case of a Player who has attained 18 years of age at the date of signing then such
Agreement between Player and Club may be for a period of time of not less than 28 days and
not more than 5 years. Any clause referring to a longer duration within the relative Agreement
between Player and Club who has attained 18 years of age at the date of signing shall only be
permitted if consistent with national laws.
7.2.2 In the case of a Player, who is under 18 years of age at the date of signing, then such
Agreement between Player and Club may not be for a period of time exceeding 3 years. Any
clause referring to a longer duration within the relative agreement between the Player and
the Club shall not be recognised and in such circumstances, the Agreement shall cease after 3
years, from the date of the Agreement.
7.2.3 The Agreement between Player and Club shall be signed by the Player and a Recognised
Official of the Club concerned and lodged with the Secretary via the Online Registration
Procedures or by post, email or fax together with the Professional Player’s Registration Form. A
duplicate, also signed by all parties, shall be given to the Player by the Club.
7.2.4 All payments, benefits, or considerations of any description which are made to a Player by
or on behalf of a Club in respect of or in connection with such Player’s playing or training
activities for such Club (other than re-imbursement of expenses actually incurred) must be
fully recorded upon the relevant written agreement contained at Annex 6 of the Registration
Procedures between the Club and the which must be submitted to the Scottish FA. No other
payments for his playing activities may be made to a Player via a third party or otherwise.
7.2.5 If the services of an Intermediary have been used in contractual negotiations the Clubs shall
ensure that the Intermediaries name and signature appears upon the relevant agreement.
7.2.6 If the services of an Intermediary have not been used then the Club must expressly state this
upon the relevant agreement.

[MyJo]

62. Powers of the Board
62.1 The management of the business and the control of the Scottish FA shall be vested in the Board, which
shall be entitled to exercise all such powers and carry out all such objects of the Scottish FA as are not by
these Articles or by statute expressly directed or required to be exercised or done by the Scottish FA in
general meeting subject, nevertheless, to any regulations from time to time made by the Scottish FA in
general meeting, provided that no regulation shall invalidate any prior act of the Board which would have
been valid if such regulation had not been made.
62.2 Without prejudice to the general powers conferred by Article 62.1 and of the other powers conferred by
these Articles, it is hereby expressly declared that the Board shall have the following powers:-
(a) it may make, alter and revoke all such rules, bye-laws and regulations relative to the use of
the property of the Scottish FA and to the conduct or holding of meetings, or for such other
purpose as it may deem fit and proper, provided that no rule, bye-law, or regulation shall be
made under the foregoing which would amount to such an addition to or alteration of these
Articles as could only by law be made by a resolution of the members;
(b) it may draw, make, accept, endorse, discount, execute and issue, respectively, promissory
notes, bills, cheques or other negotiable instruments, provided that every promissory note, bill,
cheque or other negotiable instrument drawn, made, accepted, endorsed, discounted, executed
or issued shall be signed by the President, the Vice-President and the Secretary or in such other
manner as the Board may determine;
(c) it may borrow any sum or sums of money not exceeding in all the sum of £10,000,000 on such
security and upon such terms as to interest or otherwise as it may deem fit;
(d) it may extend the playing season as from time to time it in its discretion shall deem necessary
or desirable;
(e) it may suspend the game entirely or in any district or districts or under the auspices of a
recognised football body as from time to time it in its absolute discretion may deem necessary
or desirable, provided that in the case of restricted stoppage it shall have power to exempt any
club or number of clubs or recognised football body from such stoppage;
(f) it may suspend or abandon or discontinue any or all of the competitions of the Scottish FA;
(g) it shall have power to call upon any recognised football body, club, official, Team Official or other
member of Team Staff, player, referee or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA to
produce any books, letters, or documents or any other evidence at any time it desires;
(h) it shall have power to enquire into all and any financial arrangements between recognised
football bodies, clubs and players and to cancel any agreement between clubs and players
contrary to these Articles and to publish in the public press or otherwise the findings of the
Board in this regard and the substance of any and all evidence tendered in such enquiries;
(i) it shall have the power, where a recognised football body or club fails to make any payment to
the Scottish FA or to another recognised football body or club, to deduct and retain any sums
due to it and/or to another recognised football body or club from any monies, fund or account
held by the Scottish FA which would otherwise have been payable to the defaulting recognised
football body or club. Any such monies deducted or retained by the Scottish FA shall be
applied first to meet any payment due to the Scottish FA and thereafter to meet any payment
due by the defaulting recognised football body or club to another recognised football body
or club in which case if the sum deducted/retained is insufficient to pay all sums due to such
recognised football bodies or clubs, the remaining deducted/retained monies will be distributed
in equal portions between those recognised football bodies or clubs;
(j) it shall have power to affiliate any national football association within Scotland to which it may
or may not grant representation on the Congress;
(k) it shall have power to promulgate from time to time such regulations as it deems necessary in
respect of the requirements and standards of football stadia;
(l) it shall have power to pay reasonable travelling expenses, referees’ fees and expenses and other
sums where necessary in connection with all matches arranged by it;
(m) it may remove co-opted persons from any Committee or sub-committee by such procedures as
are prescribed by the Board from time to time;
(n) without prejudice to its common law rights in relation to compensation, retention, set off or
any other applicable legal principle, it shall have the power to deduct and retain or otherwise
withhold monies from members or recognised football bodies which fail to settle fines levied
by or any other financial obligations or liabilities of whatsoever nature, whether direct or
indirect, to the Scottish FA as determined by the Scottish FA (in its sole discretion) from any
monies, funds or account held by the Scottish FA which would otherwise have been payable to
the defaulting member or recognised football body, provided that this Article 62.2(n) shall be
without prejudice to any sanction otherwise imposed in terms of these Articles;
(o) it shall be entitled to revoke or alter as it considers appropriate any powers delegated by it from
time to time to the Professional Game Board, the Non-Professional Game Board or such other
Committee or sub-committee as may be formed by it subject to the terms of these Articles;
(p) it may disclose details of any registered player to such third party for commercial and regulatory
purposes; and
(q) it may appoint a commission formed entirely of co-opted persons (who need not be Directors
or ordinary members of Congress), all as it may think fit, to attend to and/or determine any
matter(s) referred to it by the Board.

[MyJo]

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/Disciplinary/DisciplineExplained/Scottish%20FA%20Judicial%20Panel%20Protocol.pdf

page 78

[Ozyhibby]

62. Powers of the Board
62.1 The management of the business and the control of the Scottish FA shall be vested in the Board, which
shall be entitled to exercise all such powers and carry out all such objects of the Scottish FA as are not by
these Articles or by statute expressly directed or required to be exercised or done by the Scottish FA in
general meeting subject, nevertheless, to any regulations from time to time made by the Scottish FA in
general meeting, provided that no regulation shall invalidate any prior act of the Board which would have
been valid if such regulation had not been made.
62.2 Without prejudice to the general powers conferred by Article 62.1 and of the other powers conferred by
these Articles, it is hereby expressly declared that the Board shall have the following powers:-
(a) it may make, alter and revoke all such rules, bye-laws and regulations relative to the use of
the property of the Scottish FA and to the conduct or holding of meetings, or for such other
purpose as it may deem fit and proper, provided that no rule, bye-law, or regulation shall be
made under the foregoing which would amount to such an addition to or alteration of these
Articles as could only by law be made by a resolution of the members;
(b) it may draw, make, accept, endorse, discount, execute and issue, respectively, promissory
notes, bills, cheques or other negotiable instruments, provided that every promissory note, bill,
cheque or other negotiable instrument drawn, made, accepted, endorsed, discounted, executed
or issued shall be signed by the President, the Vice-President and the Secretary or in such other
manner as the Board may determine;
(c) it may borrow any sum or sums of money not exceeding in all the sum of £10,000,000 on such
security and upon such terms as to interest or otherwise as it may deem fit;
(d) it may extend the playing season as from time to time it in its discretion shall deem necessary
or desirable;
(e) it may suspend the game entirely or in any district or districts or under the auspices of a
recognised football body as from time to time it in its absolute discretion may deem necessary
or desirable, provided that in the case of restricted stoppage it shall have power to exempt any
club or number of clubs or recognised football body from such stoppage;
(f) it may suspend or abandon or discontinue any or all of the competitions of the Scottish FA;
(g) it shall have power to call upon any recognised football body, club, official, Team Official or other
member of Team Staff, player, referee or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA to
produce any books, letters, or documents or any other evidence at any time it desires;
(h) it shall have power to enquire into all and any financial arrangements between recognised
football bodies, clubs and players and to cancel any agreement between clubs and players
contrary to these Articles and to publish in the public press or otherwise the findings of the
Board in this regard and the substance of any and all evidence tendered in such enquiries;
(i) it shall have the power, where a recognised football body or club fails to make any payment to
the Scottish FA or to another recognised football body or club, to deduct and retain any sums
due to it and/or to another recognised football body or club from any monies, fund or account
held by the Scottish FA which would otherwise have been payable to the defaulting recognised
football body or club. Any such monies deducted or retained by the Scottish FA shall be
applied first to meet any payment due to the Scottish FA and thereafter to meet any payment
due by the defaulting recognised football body or club to another recognised football body
or club in which case if the sum deducted/retained is insufficient to pay all sums due to such
recognised football bodies or clubs, the remaining deducted/retained monies will be distributed
in equal portions between those recognised football bodies or clubs;
(j) it shall have power to affiliate any national football association within Scotland to which it may
or may not grant representation on the Congress;
(k) it shall have power to promulgate from time to time such regulations as it deems necessary in
respect of the requirements and standards of football stadia;
(l) it shall have power to pay reasonable travelling expenses, referees’ fees and expenses and other
sums where necessary in connection with all matches arranged by it;
(m) it may remove co-opted persons from any Committee or sub-committee by such procedures as
are prescribed by the Board from time to time;
(n) without prejudice to its common law rights in relation to compensation, retention, set off or
any other applicable legal principle, it shall have the power to deduct and retain or otherwise
withhold monies from members or recognised football bodies which fail to settle fines levied
by or any other financial obligations or liabilities of whatsoever nature, whether direct or
indirect, to the Scottish FA as determined by the Scottish FA (in its sole discretion) from any
monies, funds or account held by the Scottish FA which would otherwise have been payable to
the defaulting member or recognised football body, provided that this Article 62.2(n) shall be
without prejudice to any sanction otherwise imposed in terms of these Articles;
(o) it shall be entitled to revoke or alter as it considers appropriate any powers delegated by it from
time to time to the Professional Game Board, the Non-Professional Game Board or such other
Committee or sub-committee as may be formed by it subject to the terms of these Articles;
(p) it may disclose details of any registered player to such third party for commercial and regulatory
purposes; and
(q) it may appoint a commission formed entirely of co-opted persons (who need not be Directors
or ordinary members of Congress), all as it may think fit, to attend to and/or determine any
matter(s) referred to it by the Board.

Those are pretty wide ranging powers and yet Dave King can be found guilty by the takeover panel of acting as a concert party in the takeover of Sevco, he has ignored their order to make an offer for the rest of the club and this has not even raised an eyebrow at the SFA. New rules are only of use if they apply to everybody.


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[Deansy]

Do you mean punished by their relegation?

:faf:

[MyJo]

Those are pretty wide ranging powers and yet Dave King can be found guilty by the takeover panel of acting as a concert party in the takeover of Sevco, he has ignored their order to make an offer for the rest of the club and this has not even raised an eyebrow at the SFA. New rules are only of use if they apply to everybody.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

:agree: the problem is the application of the rules on a consistant basis and the amount of people within the SFA that were complicit in helping the huns to cheat.

[blackpoolhibs]

That's exactly the problem.

It's a lot of people being really angry about something but not really knowing what they want to fix it. That obviously doesn't apply to everyone but a fair few seem to just be blowing up at anyone who disagrees with them.

If there was a clear objective and it was communicated well then I could see myself getting on board. As it is it just seems like a bit of a rabble.

Can only speak for myself, but I think a lot of folk are thinking the similar to me?

I believe a transparent investigation has to be done, not to strip them of titles, although I firmly believe that could still happen after aproper investigation.

The enquiry should be about who did what and when, and what were the consequences of these actions. And were there laws and rules broken by those making these decisions?

Can't for the life of me understand what anyone has to hide, if everything was done by the law?

[Basildon Hibs]

I also want an asterisk in the official records against every competition won by cheats. 100% not bothered about trying to punish Sevco for what Old Rangers did.


Same here. :aok:

[Basildon Hibs]

The Aberdeen fans issued a statement that was the opposite view of their chairman - can't we do the same ?

Aye. Here's their statement:

http://www.donssupporterstogether.com/reaction-to-sfa-ebt-statement/

[HIGHLANDLEITHER]

I don't disagree.

It it would have been absurd to admit Edinburgh City over Rangers though and would effectively have ended Rangers existence. A club of that size with the fan base and stadium with nowhere to play and instead bring in another part time outfit that would contribute nothing financially to the game just doesn't make sense.

Now I totally understand that would have been like Utopia to a lot of people but in reality it was just a crazy proposal and wishful thinking.
Nothing to do with utopia , that is just a supposition. How can it be absurd if the rules state how it should have been dealt with, and they were not applied.

[SunshineOnLeith]

Nothing to do with utopia , that is just a supposition. How can it be absurd if the rules state how it should have been dealt with, and they were not applied.

Because under the old rules when there was a vacant spot clubs that wanted in had to apply for it.

Only Rangers applied.

[HIGHLANDLEITHER]

Is this a rebrand of that? Think it might be. They are calling for an enquiry ...

http://scottishfsa.org/national-fans-organisation-backs-spfl-calls-for-a-review-of-historical-governance-issues/
I think this is the way ahead as sadly I don't think the board are going to change their minds. I hope they are getting the message ,given the number of posts on the subject, that they have let down the clubs supporters.
The fans organisation offers supporters of Aberdeen and all other clubs whose boards do not represent fans feelings to seek a proper investigation of the SFA and its officials.
I understand that not all Hibs fans want to pursue this through either a resignation that nothing will happen or just wanting to concentrate on their own club or a degree of apathy.
Personally I don't trust the SFA .Too much has happened that is plainly wrong and they don't want it examined.

[WhileTheChief..]

that is just a supposition.

Eh?

[Stonewall]

For those of us who see a bigger picture, and don't want the issue swept under the carpet, I think we have to accept the club has bottled out on this. They may well have the support of the majority of our club's supporters.

I don't see any alternative other than to wait to see whether the Rangers Tax Case's attempt to find grounds for a judicial review bears fruit and then support it financially through crowd funding.

I can't believe the way I am being made to question my values, the values I was brought up to believe in, because of the attitudes of my club, many of my fellow supporters, the complicit media and the governing bodies ganging up to make me feel as if somehow I've mis-read and not understood the whole situation.

[Bishop Hibee]

The trouble is the best way to hit any business is where it hurts - in their pocket.

However, that of course damages the team as it'll affect our budget and ability to retain our best players and bring in new ones come January. So I don't see that as a realistic option.

That's one of the things that's so frustrating about this whole situation and the boards statement. It's left a large number of fans feeling voiceless and out of touch with the game and club they love.

Whatever your views on EBT's I hope everyone would agree that's not a good thing. And it's much harder to 'move on' when fans don't feel listened to our respected.

I'm honestly not sure what we can do. The club won't change their mind that's for sure. I suspect long term the good that's been done since Leanne joined will be partially undone leading to an alienated support.

In the short term the statement is putting pressure on Lennon and the players. The atmosphere won't be great on Saturday and if we don't progress as as well as hoped this season then questions will be asked about the direction and leadership of the club. Again not good for the manager, players or organisation.

I'll be there on Saturday and don't think I'll miss any games because of this but I definitely feel deflated.

Pretty much how I feel. I'd have packed Hibs in if The rangers had been allowed to start life in the top league. So would a substantial number of others. That's the only reason Hibs board took the stance they did to placate the fans. It's quite obvious from this statement that they don't give a damn about fair governance of Scottish football. Depressing really but Petrie, Dempster etc know the fans won't stay away over this.

[lyonhibs]

For those of us who see a bigger picture, and don't want the issue swept under the carpet, I think we have to accept the club has bottled out on this. They may well have the support of the majority of our club's supporters.

I don't see any alternative other than to wait to see whether the Rangers Tax Case's attempt to find grounds for a judicial review bears fruit and then support it financially through crowd funding.

I can't believe the way I am being made to question my values, the values I was brought up to believe in, because of the attitudes of my club, many of my fellow supporters, the complicit media and the governing bodies ganging up to make me feel as if somehow I've mis-read and not understood the whole situation.

If the contents of 1 Hibs board statement are making you question your core values that you've had since childhood, I suspect you're taking the whole thing a tad too seriously.

[lapsedhibee]

I can't believe the way I am being made to question my values, the values I was brought up to believe in, because of the attitudes of my club, many of my fellow supporters, the complicit media and the governing bodies ganging up to make me feel as if somehow I've mis-read and not understood the whole situation.

Agree. Almost surreal what's gone on and is still going on. Patently obvious to anyone brought up with a sense of honesty that the old huns' recent titles should have been invalidated years go. Whether it's now possible or worthwhile to do this, it should have been done with scarcely a moment's reflection.

[Robinho08]

Surely fans' groups of different clubs across Scotland can come together and organise petitions, crowd funding etc. 😕

[jgl07]

Because under the old rules when there was a vacant spot clubs that wanted in had to apply for it.

Only Rangers applied.

Correction:

Only The Rangers applied.

[Andy74]

Agree. Almost surreal what's gone on and is still going on. Patently obvious to anyone brought up with a sense of honesty that the old huns' recent titles should have been invalidated years go. Whether it's now possible or worthwhile to do this, it should have been done with scarcely a moment's reflection.

We've also been brought up to live within the rue of law, so what you might think is the right outcome becomes difficult when there are rules around it, or lack of rules that didn't cover it at the time.

[southsider]

If the branches of the Hibs Supporters Association based at Sunnyside feel strongly enough then an EGM can be called and an alternative statement from the Football Club can be given to the press. " This is what we, the fans, think about the situation."

[Curried]

We've also been brought up to live within the rue of law, so what you might think is the right outcome becomes difficult when there are rules around it, or lack of rules that didn't cover it at the time.
Stop slavering

[green day]

If the branches of the Hibs Supporters Association based at Sunnyside feel strongly enough then an EGM can be called and an alternative statement from the Football Club can be given to the press. " This is what we, the fans, think about the situation."

It wont be a statement from the Football Club, it will be from fans organisations.

n.b. Aberdeen fans have done this.

Dont think it did much in the papers.

[marinello59]

It wont be a statement from the Football Club, it will be from fans organisations.

n.b. Aberdeen fans have done this.

Dont think it did much in the papers.

Their statement did receive press coverage. Statements will make no difference at all, without action it smacks of "down with this sort of thing."

[Andy74]

Stop slavering

In amongst all this I'm afraid this is about the only thing that isn't slaver.

We can all say how upset we are about what's right or wrong but what has happened was covered by rules, or in this case, was not catered for in the rules. All bodies that have looked at this including lawyers and courts have agreed that whilst it might not be palatable, the club were punished to the extent allowed for and there are no legal avenues available to change that.

So suggesting the club are somehow morally bankrupt or making us all question or values is the thing that is wrong here - the actual facts of the thing are that if it the justice part you are looking for, it isn't happening.

[Baldy Foghorn]

If the branches of the Hibs Supporters Association based at Sunnyside feel strongly enough then an EGM can be called and an alternative statement from the Football Club can be given to the press. " This is what we, the fans, think about the situation."

HSA can't speak on behalf of all the fans. It has 2,500 members, so no doubt, lots of "they are not talking for me" chat

[JeMeSouviens]

HSA can't speak on behalf of all the fans. It has 2,500 members, so no doubt, lots of "they are not talking for me" chat

They could and should speak on behalf of their members though. Assuming they feel there's an overwhelming majority opinion one way or the other, that is.

[marinello59]

They could and should speak on behalf of their members though. Assuming they feel there's an overwhelming majority opinion one way or the other, that is.

Unless any statement suggests a way forward to see justice done then what's the point? The clubs know already how the fans feel. It's action that's needed now if people feel strongly enough about this.

[JeMeSouviens]

In amongst all this I'm afraid this is about the only thing that isn't slaver.

We can all say how upset we are about what's right or wrong but what has happened was covered by rules, or in this case, was not catered for in the rules. All bodies that have looked at this including lawyers and courts have agreed that whilst it might not be palatable, the club were punished to the extent allowed for and there are no legal avenues available to change that.

So suggesting the club are somehow morally bankrupt or making us all question or values is the thing that is wrong here - the actual facts of the thing are that if it the justice part you are looking for, it isn't happening.

The SPFL have a legal opinion saying an attempt to impose further sanctions on "Rangers", by which they mean the New Huns, for the same offences the Old Huns were already found guilty of by LNS would probably fail.

Is the SPFL stating that it considers its own competition in certain seasons when it was won by a club found guilty of cheating actually a "further sanction"? Or is it merely tidying up an obvious loose end?

And by the way, since you mentioned courts, don't forget that the courts that have considered the Old Huns' tax shenanigans, including the Court of Session and the Supreme Court, ultimately found them guilty as well. As far as I'm aware that's the only courts they've faced.

[Curried]

In amongst all this I'm afraid this is about the only thing that isn't slaver.

We can all say how upset we are about what's right or wrong but what has happened was covered by rules, or in this case, was not catered for in the rules. All bodies that have looked at this including lawyers and courts have agreed that whilst it might not be palatable, the club were punished to the extent allowed for and there are no legal avenues available to change that.

So suggesting the club are somehow morally bankrupt or making us all question or values is the thing that is wrong here - the actual facts of the thing are that if it the justice part you are looking for, it isn't happening.


Quite possibly....due to the intransigence of many posters with similar positions to you.

[JeMeSouviens]

Unless any statement suggests a way forward to see justice done then what's the point? The clubs know already how the fans feel. It's action that's needed now if people feel strongly enough about this.

The SFA PR machine is in full swing saying only 1 club cares about this, eg. Ewan Murray in the Guardian, "The notion that fans across Scotland remain enraged by Rangers’ antics and by the approach of officialdom towards the club is continually overplayed. The reality, one people refuse to accept, is that a silent majority of those who attend matches week on week no longer care about this affair."

I don't think that's true, and anything done to counter that perception is good in my book.

I agree action is needed though.

[WhileTheChief..]

Quite possibly....due to the intransigence of many posters with similar positions to you.

It's the fans fault right enough.

Anyone disagreeing with you is wrong aye?

[Curried]

It's the fans fault right enough.

Anyone disagreeing with you is wrong aye?


Yes. I think the fans need to take ownership of this, but I'm happy for people to take a different view. It's a democracy and a bit of "Sunshine" on this issue is the best disinfectant in my opinion.

[marinello59]

The SFA PR machine is in full swing saying only 1 club cares about this, eg. Ewan Murray in the Guardian, "The notion that fans across Scotland remain enraged by Rangers’ antics and by the approach of officialdom towards the club is continually overplayed. The reality, one people refuse to accept, is that a silent majority of those who attend matches week on week no longer care about this affair."

I don't think that's true, and anything done to counter that perception is good in my book.

I agree action is needed though.

A well subscribed crowd funding campaign to challenge the legal advice argument would be the most effective way to counter claims most fans are no longer enraged. The clamour for statements at every turn from fitba fans these days just leaves me bemused.

[JeMeSouviens]

A well subscribed crowd funding campaign to challenge the legal advice argument would be the most effective way to counter claims most fans are no longer enraged. The clamour for statements at every turn from fitba fans these days just leaves me bemused.

Fair enough, I'm not clamouring. I'd welcome it though (provided it agreed with me :wink:).

[marinello59]

Fair enough, I'm not clamouring. I'd welcome it though (provided it agreed with me :wink:).

:greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

In amongst all this I'm afraid this is about the only thing that isn't slaver.

We can all say how upset we are about what's right or wrong but what has happened was covered by rules, or in this case, was not catered for in the rules. All bodies that have looked at this including lawyers and courts have agreed that whilst it might not be palatable, the club were punished to the extent allowed for and there are no legal avenues available to change that.


Precisely which rule or lack of rule prevented the SFA, as soon as they discovered the extent of The Old Thes' "imperfect player registration", awarding every opponent over the previous decade a 3-0 win? If that had been done for the matches under the SFA's jurisdiction it would have been straightforward for the SPFL to follow suit.

[Andy74]

Quite possibly....due to the intransigence of many posters with similar positions to you.

Get a legal opinion of your own then and go for it?

[SunshineOnLeith]

Quite possibly....due to the intransigence of many posters with similar positions to you.

Wait, is the new party line that it's all Andy74's fault?

Because I can get on board with that.

I demand an enquiry into Andy74.

[Curried]

Get a legal opinion of your own then and go for it?

If I can get some financial support, I’m looking to engage the prosecutor from the Midnight Express.

[Jim Herriot]

The Scotsman has a poll today - currently 92% voting yes to an independent review.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/competitions/premiership/poll-should-there-be-an-independent-review-of-the-sfa-1-4561529