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View Full Version : Are you happy with Hibs' statement on an EBT enquiry?



JeMeSouviens
11-09-2017, 07:38 PM
Well?

Hibbyradge
11-09-2017, 07:42 PM
You won't get odds on No.

Eyrie
11-09-2017, 07:44 PM
It's a poor statement that acknowledges neither the frustration felt by the many Hibs fans who have supported calls for the EBT decision to be revisited, nor the need to review how the EBT decision was made.

That decision was wrong because it did not apply the standard sanction laid down in competition rules regarding improperly registered players. The legal advice may be right that the decision cannot now be overturned, but the manner in which the decision was made should still be examined.

Pretty Boy
11-09-2017, 07:47 PM
No but it's not unexpected.

There will undoubtedly now be the usual threats of boycotts or 'not going back until such and such happens' but they usually die away pretty quickly. As much as the statment misjudges the mood of a lot of fans I can't help think a few good results and some drip fed good news will repair a relationship pretty quickly.

jacomo
11-09-2017, 08:07 PM
No but it's not unexpected.

There will undoubtedly now be the usual threats of boycotts or 'not going back until such and such happens' but they usually die away pretty quickly. As much as the statment misjudges the mood of a lot of fans I can't help think a few good results and some drip fed good news will repair a relationship pretty quickly.


:agree:

Sadly, the cover up was done some time ago and everybody is hiding behind legal excuses.

What I really don't understand is the bit about the inquiry though. Why not look into it?

Kaiser1962
11-09-2017, 08:25 PM
:agree:

Sadly, the cover up was done some time ago and everybody is hiding behind legal excuses.

What I really don't understand is the bit about the inquiry though. Why not look into it?

There appears to be enough evidence of dishonest behaviour and practices to warrant one and how they got away with it so long. I would include Hearts, Dunfermline and Gretna in this when their operations were obviously unsustainable independently which raises questions over the games governance.

Just Alf
11-09-2017, 08:45 PM
I'm no longer (too) bothered about further penalties but I definitely think there should be an inquiry about how the whole affair was handled at the time.

Cropley10
11-09-2017, 09:08 PM
No but it's not unexpected.

There will undoubtedly now be the usual threats of boycotts or 'not going back until such and such happens' but they usually die away pretty quickly. As much as the statment misjudges the mood of a lot of fans I can't help think a few good results and some drip fed good news will repair a relationship pretty quickly.

Aye, you're probably right. The Board and fan reps laughing up their sleeves.

Cropley10
11-09-2017, 09:10 PM
:agree:

Sadly, the cover up was done some time ago and everybody is hiding behind legal excuses.

What I really don't understand is the bit about the inquiry though. Why not look into it?

Occam's razor. Cos they know it won't turn out well for some folk like Rod who is complicit in the Five Away Agreement.

WhileTheChief..
11-09-2017, 09:11 PM
I reckon we'll get a good, well rounded response to this which we can use to make an informed decision on what collective action should be taken by us.

WhileTheChief..
11-09-2017, 09:14 PM
Occam's razor.

I just learnt something new. Nice one!

660
11-09-2017, 09:16 PM
Aye, you're probably right. The Board and fan reps laughing up their sleeves.

I hate to break it to you but the board aren’t sitting in some underground lair hatching their latest evil plans.

Biggie
11-09-2017, 09:17 PM
No but it's not unexpected.

There will undoubtedly now be the usual threats of boycotts or 'not going back until such and such happens' but they usually die away pretty quickly. As much as the statment misjudges the mood of a lot of fans I can't help think a few good results and some drip fed good news will repair a relationship pretty quickly.

Indeed, there is much knashing of teeth and calls to not go to games, etc, but hibs know full well that the fans will NOT walk away. This isn't Tesco, or Nike pissing you off......you can readily walk away from them, this is hibs, and the attachment is too emotive.
We've been shat on many times before over the years, Scottish football is a village and it seems too many fear the repercussions pursuing this.

A few weeks and the anger will die down and we'll carry on.......all very sad.

.Sean.
11-09-2017, 09:22 PM
I'm about as far from happy as possible, the board are cowards to a man (and woman). Congratulations on smashing a big dent in the feel-good factor that's taken years to build.

Every single supporter in Scotland who bought tickets during the EBT years were conned as it was a rigged competition, yet our club seemingly deem this as acceptable and brush it under the carpet for some reason.

I honestly can't understand folk giving it let's just move on chat, if the Huns can get away with it once would you be surprised to see them pulling another ****s trick? Seems they're getting the running of Scottish football and when one of the supposed bigger clubs (US) have completely shat it in coming together and taking them to task then that speaks volumes.

This isn't just any club either. Have the board forgotten the lies perpetrated and how Rangers portrayed our club after the Cup Final?

Cropley10
11-09-2017, 09:31 PM
I'm about as far from happy as possible, the board are cowards to a man (and woman). Congratulations on smashing a big dent in the feel-good factor that's taken years to build.

Every single supporter in Scotland who bought tickets during the EBT years were conned as it was a rigged competition, yet our club seemingly deem this as acceptable and brush it under the carpet for some reason.

I honestly can't understand folk giving it let's just move on chat, if the Huns can get away with it once would you be surprised to see them pulling another ****s trick? Seems they're getting the running of Scottish football and when one of the supposed bigger clubs (US) have completely shat it in coming together and taking them to task then that speaks volumes.

This isn't just any club either. Have the board forgotten the lies perpetrated and how Rangers portrayed our club after the Cup Final?

Superb post.

Cropley10
11-09-2017, 09:32 PM
I just learnt something new. Nice one!

You're welcome! :greengrin

SRHibs
11-09-2017, 09:33 PM
Not overly bothered but if I had to lie on one side of the fence it would be with the aggrieved section.

Cropley10
11-09-2017, 09:34 PM
I hate to break it to you but the board aren’t sitting in some underground lair hatching their latest evil plans.

Hate to break it you but I was talking figuratively, not literally.

They're having a laugh. Treating us like *****

660
11-09-2017, 09:35 PM
I'm about as far from happy as possible, the board are cowards to a man (and woman). Congratulations on smashing a big dent in the feel-good factor that's taken years to build.

Every single supporter in Scotland who bought tickets during the EBT years were conned as it was a rigged competition, yet our club seemingly deem this as acceptable and brush it under the carpet for some reason.

I honestly can't understand folk giving it let's just move on chat, if the Huns can get away with it once would you be surprised to see them pulling another ****s trick? Seems they're getting the running of Scottish football and when one of the supposed bigger clubs (US) have completely shat it in coming together and taking them to task then that speaks volumes.

This isn't just any club either. Have the board forgotten the lies perpetrated and how Rangers portrayed our club after the Cup Final?

Why is the cup final relevant?

660
11-09-2017, 09:36 PM
Hate to break it you but I was talking figuratively, not literally.

They're having a laugh. Treating us like *****

They’re really not. They’re just following legal advice instead of Celtic bloggers.

JeMeSouviens
11-09-2017, 09:38 PM
They’re really not. They’re just following legal advice instead of Celtic bloggers.

How about following their customers' wishes?

Cropley10
11-09-2017, 09:38 PM
Why is the cup final relevant?

I'll have a wild stab in the dark...

Is it because they posted up a bunch of lies about us minutes after we won the Cup, to deflect from their failure, and to slander us????? :dunno:

majorhibs
11-09-2017, 09:39 PM
Well?

From "the A team" - "stop askin damn fool questions!"

Cropley10
11-09-2017, 09:40 PM
They’re really not. They’re just following legal advice instead of Celtic bloggers.

Except this has all the legal status of your local golf club.

.Sean.
11-09-2017, 09:42 PM
Why is the cup final relevant?
Because of the nonsense and downright lies the club spouted on social platforms and got their pals in the media to spread in an attempt to deflect criticism from themselves and take the shine off our win?

Hibs then have ample opportunity to fight back said club and their decade of wrongdoing and their arse collapses like a soggy biscuit.

The board have sold the fans out. 'Hibernian with bottle' :rolleyes::confused:

Crazyhorse
11-09-2017, 10:08 PM
Well?

Don't seem to have the option to vote. I would vote no but feel there is a lot of misdirection going on here. For me the EBT's per se are of no interest the misregistration of players is the issue. Perhaps the EBT issue is being used as a smokescreen so that this argument about legal council, it will cost a fortune can be trotted out. The SFA board can hold a meeting at Hampden look at the only issue which should concern them. Punish the rule breaker and go home. Couple of hundred quid in taxi fares and first class rail tickets for the whole gang.

NAE NOOKIE
11-09-2017, 10:23 PM
No I'm not and I want to see a proper enquiry into the whole handling of this scandal by the SFA and SPFL ...... If its true that they ( SFA / SPFL ) have painted themselves into a corner where they cant re visit the consequences of Rangers 1872's application of EBT's then they once again have proved their incompetence.

I presume Hibs have looked into the possibility of a legal review and what the outcome might be and are not the only club who have come to the conclusion along with the governing bodies that a lot of money could be spent on it with absolutely no prospect of a satisfactory outcome ... If that's the case at the very least the SFA and SPFL should publish a detailed statement as to what the legal situation is which would mean an attempt at stripping The Rangers 2012 of honours would be 'bound to fail' ..... a phrase often used in law to deny an applicant recourse to further legal review or appeal.

As for the board .......... I find it impossible to believe that they would be going down this route if they didn't feel it was the best option for the club, it would have been the easiest thing in the world for them to go with the flow on this one and side with the view of the majority of fans. The fact that they have not and put themselves in the firing line when it comes to the fans anger says to me that they have carefully considered their stance here .... just because I'm not happy with it doesn't mean I don't understand why they have come to the conclusion they have here.

As for boycotting matches as a result of this .... GTF .... Rangers have already caused enough damage, The Rangers 2012 and their fans wont give a stuff if fans of other clubs decide to boycott their own clubs because of their historical actions. Any anger we have should be directed towards the SFA and SPFL where it belongs, not Hibernian FC.

inglisavhibs
11-09-2017, 10:51 PM
No I'm not and I want to see a proper enquiry into the whole handling of this scandal by the SFA and SPFL ...... If its true that they ( SFA / SPFL ) have painted themselves into a corner where they cant re visit the consequences of Rangers 1872's application of EBT's then they once again have proved their incompetence.

I presume Hibs have looked into the possibility of a legal review and what the outcome might be and are not the only club who have come to the conclusion along with the governing bodies that a lot of money could be spent on it with absolutely no prospect of a satisfactory outcome ... If that's the case at the very least the SFA and SPFL should publish a detailed statement as to what the legal situation is which would mean an attempt at stripping The Rangers 2012 of honours would be 'bound to fail' ..... a phrase often used in law to deny an applicant recourse to further legal review or appeal.

As for the board .......... I find it impossible to believe that they would be going down this route if they didn't feel it was the best option for the club, it would have been the easiest thing in the world for them to go with the flow on this one and side with the view of the majority of fans. The fact that they have not and put themselves in the firing line when it comes to the fans anger says to me that they have carefully considered their stance here .... just because I'm not happy with it doesn't mean I don't understand why they have come to the conclusion they have here.

As for boycotting matches as a result of this .... GTF .... Rangers have already caused enough damage, The Rangers 2012 and their fans wont give a stuff if fans of other clubs decide to boycott their own clubs because of their historical actions. Any anger we have should be directed towards the SFA and SPFL where it belongs, not Hibernian FC.
My word, a sensible post amongst some drivel.

Deansy
11-09-2017, 11:09 PM
Hopefuly, in some way or another, in independent investigation DOES materialise as in that way the game will get the justice/cleansing it should've had 6 years ago and RP to stand down after more or less admitting, via this shameful statement, he has no understanding whatsoever of the people who devote a large percentage of their lives and income to this club and the game.

RIP the alleged 'Feelgood Factor' as it never really existed - it was all lip-service !

Signed A. Mushroom

SirDavidsNapper
11-09-2017, 11:20 PM
The statement doesn't bother me, infact I agree with it.

snooky
11-09-2017, 11:54 PM
Are you happy with Hibs' statement on an EBT enquiry? Well?

19331

HUTCHYHIBBY
11-09-2017, 11:55 PM
It's a bit of a shocker but, the silence from the club was deafening.

MrSmith
12-09-2017, 12:08 AM
Hung us all out to dry! Shocking statement and one that now demands the removal of our out of touch board.

1999 - 2011 how much cash we all put into hibs during this period? It was a rigged league and we need to begin the fight for compensation as our club masters - for now - seem to think that it's acceptable to Con the lifeblood ...

edinburghhibee
12-09-2017, 01:53 AM
No I'm not and I want to see a proper enquiry into the whole handling of this scandal by the SFA and SPFL ...... If its true that they ( SFA / SPFL ) have painted themselves into a corner where they cant re visit the consequences of Rangers 1872's application of EBT's then they once again have proved their incompetence.

I presume Hibs have looked into the possibility of a legal review and what the outcome might be and are not the only club who have come to the conclusion along with the governing bodies that a lot of money could be spent on it with absolutely no prospect of a satisfactory outcome ... If that's the case at the very least the SFA and SPFL should publish a detailed statement as to what the legal situation is which would mean an attempt at stripping The Rangers 2012 of honours would be 'bound to fail' ..... a phrase often used in law to deny an applicant recourse to further legal review or appeal.

As for the board .......... I find it impossible to believe that they would be going down this route if they didn't feel it was the best option for the club, it would have been the easiest thing in the world for them to go with the flow on this one and side with the view of the majority of fans. The fact that they have not and put themselves in the firing line when it comes to the fans anger says to me that they have carefully considered their stance here .... just because I'm not happy with it doesn't mean I don't understand why they have come to the conclusion they have here.

As for boycotting matches as a result of this .... GTF .... Rangers have already caused enough damage, The Rangers 2012 and their fans wont give a stuff if fans of other clubs decide to boycott their own clubs because of their historical actions. Any anger we have should be directed towards the SFA and SPFL where it belongs, not Hibernian FC.

Agree 100% with the final paragraph. By all means voice your concerns at the board on Saturday but only for a limited time. Then we get back behind the boys.



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Haymaker
12-09-2017, 03:59 AM
Agree 100% with the final paragraph. By all means voice your concerns at the board on Saturday but only for a limited time. Then we get back behind the boys.



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Every team, every game should protest. Banners, chants of we want an enquiry, whatever.

Every. ****ing. Game.

Back the team (it's not their fault) but make it ****ing obvious we are not happy.

Jones28
12-09-2017, 05:53 AM
I'm not bothered by it. It hardly as though the ebts snatched titles away from us is it? Just get this whole thing to **** so we can focus on Hibs.

Ozyhibby
12-09-2017, 06:04 AM
I'm not bothered by it. It hardly as though the ebts snatched titles away from us is it? Just get this whole thing to **** so we can focus on Hibs.

They knocked out the Scottish a few times though.


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Winston Ingram
12-09-2017, 06:08 AM
You won't get odds on No.

We're an intelligent group of supporters so i think that goes without saying.

Jones28
12-09-2017, 06:13 AM
They knocked out the Scottish a few times though.


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And we pumped them in the only game that matters

Ozyhibby
12-09-2017, 06:16 AM
And we pumped them in the only game that matters

Only game that matters? Should we just pack it up now then?
Those games mattered as well. So does Saturday's game v Motherwell.


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Jones28
12-09-2017, 06:23 AM
Only game that matters? Should we just pack it up now then?
Those games mattered as well. So does Saturday's game v Motherwell.


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The only game that mattered in the Scottish cup against rangers.

Exactly, look forward. Wrap this pish and move on.

Ozyhibby
12-09-2017, 06:46 AM
The only game that mattered in the Scottish cup against rangers.

Exactly, look forward. Wrap this pish and move on.

For Hibs, that's exactly what we have done. We stood shoulder to shoulder with the SFA and Rangers.
The campaign for an enquiry will go on and will succeed. It's just a great pity that our club will be on the side of corruption and cover up.


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Andy74
12-09-2017, 06:59 AM
For Hibs, that's exactly what we have done. We stood shoulder to shoulder with the SFA and Rangers.
The campaign for an enquiry will go on and will succeed. It's just a great pity that our club will be on the side of corruption and cover up.


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Hibs are just confirming the point I've been making the last few days. The legal reviews have been done, nothing more can be done on that front and so you aren't growing to get any further justice regardless of what you do from here.

Also agree that now is time to devote energy to moving on. 3 points on Saturday much more important to most fans.

The Falcon
12-09-2017, 07:00 AM
Why is the cup final relevant?

I would also add our last visit to Ibrox when our manager was the vistim of some sort of witch hunt because his team had the audacity ro beat them. Lennon was reported to the Police by their fans, for "cupping" his ears after subjecting him to vile sectarian abuse. Their assistant manager reported him to the Police for celebrating and a gesture that was both fleeting and spontaneous, yet they ignored the abuse that was directed at him.

They have learned nothing and act again like the bully. The "blue pound"? What a crock of 5h1t. You only have to look at social media to get ageneral feel for their reaction to our club statement. "Hibsed it" seems to be a prominent comment from the Sevconians, they are laughing at us.

Ozyhibby
12-09-2017, 07:05 AM
Hibs are just confirming the point I've been making the last few days. The legal reviews have been done, nothing more can be done on that front and so you aren't growing to get any further justice regardless of what you do from here.

Also agree that now is time to devote energy to moving on. 3 points on Saturday much more important to most fans.

The enquiry will happen.


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Ozyhibby
12-09-2017, 07:06 AM
I would also add our last visit to Ibrox when our manager was the vistim of some sort of witch hunt because his team had the audacity ro beat them. Lennon was reported to the Police by their fans, for "cupping" his ears after subjecting him to vile sectarian abuse. Their assistant manager reported him to the Police for celebrating and a gesture that was both fleeting and spontaneous, yet they ignored the abuse that was directed at him.

They have learned nothing and act again like the bully. The "blue pound"? What a crock of 5h1t. You only have to look at social media to get ageneral feel for their reaction to our club statement. "Hibsed it" seems to be a prominent comment from the Sevconians, they are laughing at us.

We deserve to be laughed at.


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Steve20
12-09-2017, 07:12 AM
Hibs are spot on with the statement. Concentrate more on Hibs and not punishing another club because of nothing but hatred.

neil7908
12-09-2017, 07:16 AM
Who can I speak to about getting a refund for the tickets I purchased for a rigged competition?

Scottish football is a fast becoming like wrestling - winner is decided beforehand.

Andy74
12-09-2017, 07:16 AM
The enquiry will happen.


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So what? It won't result in any further penalties so if that's what you what you are after it's a waste of time.

Malthibby
12-09-2017, 07:20 AM
We deserve to be laughed at.


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Nonsense, I'm more than happy to stand shoulder to shoulder with our new Sevco friends, hopefullly I'll get invited to the local Lodge now
we have tugged the forelock. Anyone been on Ebay to find a songbook of wholesome folk songs with a blue tinge? May as well join in
because we have given our stamp of approval to another 100 years of it.
Shame on you, Hibs.

barcahibs
12-09-2017, 07:25 AM
Voted not bothered. I'm not happy that rangers will not have their titles stripped... But it appears that was never an option anyway.

I can see the boards position to be honest. They can't deliver what the most vocal fans actually want so no matter what they do they'll be slated. Even if there was an enquiry, when it concluded with no title stripping we'd get the same wailing and gnashing of teeth that we're getting now anyway.

Might as well just get it over with without taking 10 years and millions of pounds in legal fees to do it.

As far as I'm concerned old rangers died in 2012. That's good enough for me.

Iain G
12-09-2017, 07:25 AM
The enquiry will happen.


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Very doubtful that it will happen Ozy, what makes you so sure, because Celtic are pushing it?! :confused:

The Falcon
12-09-2017, 07:27 AM
So what? It won't result in any further penalties so if that's what you what you are after it's a waste of time.

I think it's beyond penalties Andy. It's about transparency and good governance ensuring that competion is fair and that rules are applied. There has been a lot went on to get Sevco into the league structure and that needs to be examined as well as to who did what and when they knew. I am a big defender of Rod but I have concerns over his role in this and I fear I wont like the outcome (as far as Rod is concerned) but this now needs to be done.

rodhibs55
12-09-2017, 07:28 AM
Hibs are spot on with the statement. Concentrate more on Hibs and not punishing another club because of nothing but hatred.

Personally not particularly happy with the statement however like you I agree we just need to move on and concentrate on supporting the team on the park.

marinello59
12-09-2017, 07:30 AM
The enquiry will happen.


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I think you're right, an enquiry of sorts will eventually happen. I have no evidence to support that though, it's just a feeling.

WhileTheChief..
12-09-2017, 07:36 AM
Who can I speak to about getting a refund for the tickets I purchased for a rigged competition?

Scottish football is a fast becoming like wrestling - winner is decided beforehand.

Really? Nothing to do with Celtic just being way better than the rest?

If it is rigged now, why don't Rangers win every game?

Commemts like this do absolutely nothing for your argument. Let us know how you get on asking for a refund.

Ozyhibby
12-09-2017, 07:37 AM
So what? It won't result in any further penalties so if that's what you what you are after it's a waste of time.

It's not but crack on.


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oldbutdim
12-09-2017, 07:37 AM
No I'm not and I want to see a proper enquiry into the whole handling of this scandal by the SFA and SPFL ...... If its true that they ( SFA / SPFL ) have painted themselves into a corner where they cant re visit the consequences of Rangers 1872's application of EBT's then they once again have proved their incompetence.

I presume Hibs have looked into the possibility of a legal review and what the outcome might be and are not the only club who have come to the conclusion along with the governing bodies that a lot of money could be spent on it with absolutely no prospect of a satisfactory outcome ... If that's the case at the very least the SFA and SPFL should publish a detailed statement as to what the legal situation is which would mean an attempt at stripping The Rangers 2012 of honours would be 'bound to fail' ..... a phrase often used in law to deny an applicant recourse to further legal review or appeal.

As for the board .......... I find it impossible to believe that they would be going down this route if they didn't feel it was the best option for the club, it would have been the easiest thing in the world for them to go with the flow on this one and side with the view of the majority of fans. The fact that they have not and put themselves in the firing line when it comes to the fans anger says to me that they have carefully considered their stance here .... just because I'm not happy with it doesn't mean I don't understand why they have come to the conclusion they have here.

As for boycotting matches as a result of this .... GTF .... Rangers have already caused enough damage, The Rangers 2012 and their fans wont give a stuff if fans of other clubs decide to boycott their own clubs because of their historical actions. Any anger we have should be directed towards the SFA and SPFL where it belongs, not Hibernian FC.

Excellent post.

blackpoolhibs
12-09-2017, 07:39 AM
I think you're right, an enquiry of sorts will eventually happen. I have no evidence to support that though, it's just a feeling.

I too think an enquiry of sorts will happen, probably a fans led one. The reason i think it will be this way is that those in charge are frightened of the consequences.

We've seen the threats that come out of Ibrox, and also the threats from lunatics from their support.

It's no wonder there is a reluctance to put their head on the chopping block, and i personally think a lot of those who have voted the way they have are secretly hoping this is the case.

Sevco really do have a sinister side to them, that no other club i know have, and they know this and know how to use it.

Perhaps this is why a fans led inquiry is the only way to go?

Andy74
12-09-2017, 07:39 AM
It's not but crack on.


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What do you think you want out of the enquiry then that is important enough to justify more time and expense?

blackpoolhibs
12-09-2017, 07:41 AM
What do you think you want out of the enquiry then that is important enough to justify more time and expense?

I'd just like the truth, and after that i'd like time to consider the options?

McIntosh
12-09-2017, 07:42 AM
Totally outrageous. Unanimous decision!!! What did our representatives vote? If they voted for this they should resign.

Drewster
12-09-2017, 07:43 AM
Hibs are just confirming the point I've been making the last few days. The legal reviews have been done, nothing more can be done on that front and so you aren't growing to get any further justice regardless of what you do from here.

Also agree that now is time to devote energy to moving on. 3 points on Saturday much more important to most fans.

The SFA have at best, been asleep on the job.......and at worse been totally corrupt, and complicit in the *******isation of our National sport for years!!

For years we have watched Clubs (Rangers, Hearts, Livingston, Gretna, etc.) involved in financial doping win titles, and then go into administration within 12 months - how can this be tolerated and worse celebrated?

For years the SFA and the SPFL has worked to protect the interest of the 2 largest Clubs when the fans are desperate for expanded leagues?

For years the SFA have run down our game, they are unaccountable, and lack leadership.

As fans of Hibs FC and Scottish Football we cannot accept this stance by our Club..............surely!!?

Iain G
12-09-2017, 07:49 AM
Totally outrageous. Unanimous decision!!! What did our representatives vote? If they voted for this they should resign.

Why should they resign?!

Golden Bear
12-09-2017, 07:55 AM
The trouble with a poll like this is that those fans who feel really strongly on the issue are far more likely to click their mouse and vote than those who fall into the "couldn't care a monkey's category". The end result may therefore not be truly representative of either the Hibs Net community or the Hibernian support as a whole.

Andy74
12-09-2017, 07:55 AM
The SFA have at best, been asleep on the job.......and at worse been totally corrupt, and complicit in the *******isation of our National sport for years!!

For years we have watched Clubs (Rangers, Hearts, Livingston, Gretna, etc.) involved in financial doping win titles, and then go into administration within 12 months - how can this be tolerated and worse celebrated?

For years the SFA and the SPFL has worked to protect the interest of the 2 largest Clubs when the fans are desperate for expanded leagues?

For years the SFA have run down our game, they are unaccountable, and lack leadership.

As fans of Hibs FC and Scottish Football we cannot accept this stance by our Club..............surely!!?

That's a lot of vague notions. What specifically would an enquiry address?

Ozyhibby
12-09-2017, 07:56 AM
Why should they resign?!

Because this is the biggest issue the club have been dealing with at board level and they have refused to engage with the fans on the issue. Can't think of a clearer cut case for resigning than that.


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surreyhibbie
12-09-2017, 07:57 AM
didn't really expect anything to happen.

still pissed off though.

:rolleyes:

Andy74
12-09-2017, 08:03 AM
Because this is the biggest issue the club have been dealing with at board level and they have refused to engage with the fans on the issue. Can't think of a clearer cut case for resigning than that.


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You mean they just didn't agree with you?

Ozyhibby
12-09-2017, 08:13 AM
You mean they just didn't agree with you?

No, I said they did not engage with the fans. If they had done that and then came to a different view then fair enough but to just blank us in the way they did is a resigning offence. They won't though. It's too much fun hanging out with the movers and shakers.


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Peevemor
12-09-2017, 08:14 AM
Because this is the biggest issue the club have been dealing with at board level and they have refused to engage with the fans on the issue. Can't think of a clearer cut case for resigning than that.


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Nonsense. We don't know what was said during board meetings. Maybe they put across the supporters' points of view very well.

It's also possible (likely?) that copies of any legal studies/reports were to hand. If lawyers say that there's no point in proceeding then I'd believe them, especially given that they'd be the only ones to benefit financially win or lose (a Rangers appeal against official sanctions would result in thousands of billable hours on both sides).

As for the decision being unanimous, I for one want want board members, fans' reps or not, to vote with their heads and not their hearts.

Jones28
12-09-2017, 08:20 AM
For Hibs, that's exactly what we have done. We stood shoulder to shoulder with the SFA and Rangers.
The campaign for an enquiry will go on and will succeed. It's just a great pity that our club will be on the side of corruption and cover up.


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We did nothing of the kind. It was the view of the Hibs board that a further enquiry would be fruitless. The SFA have said all documentation will be realeased if requested and anyone can sift through to find what they want.

Do you really think people like Leanne Dempster and Rod Petrie - the man who coined the "sporting integrity" phrase - would want to stand idly by if there was anything they could do that they felt would have an outcome?

Ozyhibby
12-09-2017, 08:31 AM
Nonsense. We don't know what was said during board meetings. Maybe they put across the supporters' points of view very well.

It's also possible (likely?) that copies of any legal studies/reports were to hand. If lawyers say that there's no point in proceeding then I'd believe them, especially given that they'd be the only ones to benefit financially win or lose (a Rangers appeal against official sanctions would result in thousands of billable hours on both sides).

As for the decision being unanimous, I for one want want board members, fans' reps or not, to vote with their heads and not their hearts.

It's not the way they voted that's the problem, it's the failure to consult the people they claim to represent.


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Peevemor
12-09-2017, 08:35 AM
It's not the way they voted that's the problem, it's the failure to consult the people they claim to represent.


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Do you think they weren't aware of supporter feeling?

When the reps are appointed, people should be voting for those you trust to represent you, not somebody that comes on here (for example) evrey 5 minutes asking what they should do.

Glesgahibby
12-09-2017, 08:38 AM
I feel uncomfortable with the " legal "and "financial" terminology being used to argue that there is no case/appetite for a review by the SFA.
The LNS report and the 5 way agreement"fans no nothing about"came after the discovery of side letters.
The side letters prove players where ineligible and as such the SFA had/have the power to enforce there own rules regarding this matter.
The simple question to the SFA is why couldn't/can't you enforce your own rules/punishment for legal reasons.
my guess is the 5 way agreement would be laughed out of court,if this is the mechanism used to promise no more sanctions on rangers?
I don't agree with the boards statement.

Arch Stanton
12-09-2017, 09:03 AM
So we want an enquiry - why? Getting an enquiry is no kind of result that I can see.

Just the start of another 1300+ page thread like the Rangers meltdown one.

And the final outcome? Will there be an admission of incompetence by the SFA or some kind of unenforceable punishment meted on old Rangers? Get real.

Why this forum seems so fully focussed on this issue beats me - and people not attending on Sat? Some people seem to be more anti-Rangers than they are pro-Hibs.

Basildon Hibs
12-09-2017, 09:04 AM
We did nothing of the kind. It was the view of the Hibs board that a further enquiry would be fruitless. The SFA have said all documentation will be realeased if requested and anyone can sift through to find what they want.

Do you really think people like Leanne Dempster and Rod Petrie - the man who coined the "sporting integrity" phrase - would want to stand idly by if there was anything they could do that they felt would have an outcome?

'The SFA have said all documentation will be realeased if requested and anyone can sift through to find what they want.'

Oh ma sides😂. Those shredding machines at the GFA will have been used more than Bernie Madoff's.

snooky
12-09-2017, 09:10 AM
'The SFA have said all documentation will be realeased if requested and anyone can sift through to find what they want.'

Oh ma sides😂. Those shredding machines at the GFA will have been used more than Bernie Madoff's.

I thought Regan said "if all parties agreed" and surely that includes RFC/TRFC so what he is saying is "there's absolutely no chance".

Jones28
12-09-2017, 09:39 AM
'The SFA have said all documentation will be realeased if requested and anyone can sift through to find what they want.'

Oh ma sides😂. Those shredding machines at the GFA will have been used more than Bernie Madoff's.

Ok then, you stay in the paranoid Celtic fan camp, I'm going to be backing the team on Saturday and looking forward.

Jones28
12-09-2017, 09:40 AM
I thought Regan said "if all parties agreed" and surely that includes RFC/TRFC so what he is saying is "there's absolutely no chance".

If that's the case I mustn't have heard that, that's me theory scuppered then I suppose!

Speedway
12-09-2017, 09:57 AM
How about following their customers' wishes?

Bad idea when the customers are knobs.

Hibernia&Alba
12-09-2017, 10:30 AM
**** no, I'm not happy. Not happy at all.

Basildon Hibs
12-09-2017, 10:51 AM
Ok then, you stay in the paranoid Celtic fan camp, I'm going to be backing the team on Saturday and looking forward.


So, you actually agree with what comes out of their mouths...?

:faf:

Diclonius
12-09-2017, 10:54 AM
I'm past caring. Even if there is an enquiry, it'll be the usual "nothing to see here" cover up nonsense, and everyone's time will be wasted. The SFA grit their teeth and demoted Rangers to the Third Division - they're not going to go any further than that. It's a sideshow and now Hibs are back in the top league with a decent team I can think of better things to be concerned about.

Jones28
12-09-2017, 10:57 AM
So, you actually agree with what comes out of their mouths...?

:faf:

I don't give a flying **** anymore tbh

neil7908
12-09-2017, 01:27 PM
Really? Nothing to do with Celtic just being way better than the rest?

If it is rigged now, why don't Rangers win every game?

Commemts like this do absolutely nothing for your argument. Let us know how you get on asking for a refund.

I was clearly being facetious - I'm not actually expecting any money back and won't be asking for it.

Our club have clearly been affected by this and disadvantaged. Football is now an incredibly rich and powerful business but the core of it is competition. That's why the English Premier League makes crazy money from TV.

Scotland hasn't been competitive or fair for many years, predating these issues. Dodgy decisions by refs, ignoring sectarian chanting etc.

Now things have been dragged into the open and had a light shone on them. And our response is to shrug our shoulders and 'move on'.

Move onto what? Why did this happen? Who allowed it and why won't it happen again?

Put game is getting weaker and weaker. This move is only a going to male things worse, not better.

It won't affect my attendance at Easter Road but the club have seriously upset a chunk of fans. That can't be a good thing.

sadtom
12-09-2017, 02:28 PM
I'm past caring. Even if there is an enquiry, it'll be the usual "nothing to see here" cover up nonsense, and everyone's time will be wasted. The SFA grit their teeth and demoted Rangers to the Third Division - they're not going to go any further than that. It's a sideshow and now Hibs are back in the top league with a decent team I can think of better things to be concerned about.

I think this is indicative of this whole sorry sh**storm.
The constant lies and misinformation that the authorities have allowed to be spouted so often they are now passed as facts.

The point is, and its a crucial one, rankgers were NOT demoted to the bottom tier. They ceased to exist, started again and were given a helping hand INTO the bottom tier. Completely at odds with the ruling bodies own guidelines and rules, a blind eye was turned to HELP newco f.c. as they did not fit the criteria, it was not to punish oldco f.c.
As this has never been forcefully argued by the authorities it has allowed this lie to become passed of as fact.

I guess they have always been fearful of riling the nutters connected with sevco and that decisions have been made with their personal safety as paramount.
A deeper concern is that they are culpable, including RP and are concerned their collusion and compliance will be outed.
Its a poor show from Hibs.

Thecat23
12-09-2017, 02:58 PM
I think this is indicative of this whole sorry sh**storm.
The constant lies and misinformation that the authorities have allowed to be spouted so often they are now passed as facts.

The point is, and its a crucial one, rankgers were NOT demoted to the bottom tier. They ceased to exist, started again and were given a helping hand INTO the bottom tier. Completely at odds with the ruling bodies own guidelines and rules, a blind eye was turned to HELP newco f.c. as they did not fit the criteria, it was not to punish oldco f.c.
As this has never been forcefully argued by the authorities it has allowed this lie to become passed of as fact.

I guess they have always been fearful of riling the nutters connected with sevco and that decisions have been made with their personal safety as paramount.
A deeper concern is that they are culpable, including RP and are concerned their collusion and compliance will be outed.
Its a poor show from Hibs.

Brilliant post. Those are real facts, yet some still won't except it.

Jones28
12-09-2017, 03:24 PM
I think this is indicative of this whole sorry sh**storm.
The constant lies and misinformation that the authorities have allowed to be spouted so often they are now passed as facts.

The point is, and its a crucial one, rankgers were NOT demoted to the bottom tier. They ceased to exist, started again and were given a helping hand INTO the bottom tier. Completely at odds with the ruling bodies own guidelines and rules, a blind eye was turned to HELP newco f.c. as they did not fit the criteria, it was not to punish oldco f.c.
As this has never been forcefully argued by the authorities it has allowed this lie to become passed of as fact.

I guess they have always been fearful of riling the nutters connected with sevco and that decisions have been made with their personal safety as paramount.
A deeper concern is that they are culpable, including RP and are concerned their collusion and compliance will be outed.
Its a poor show from Hibs.

Good post

Arch Stanton
12-09-2017, 03:28 PM
I think this is indicative of this whole sorry sh**storm.
The constant lies and misinformation that the authorities have allowed to be spouted so often they are now passed as facts.

The point is, and its a crucial one, rankgers were NOT demoted to the bottom tier. They ceased to exist, started again and were given a helping hand INTO the bottom tier. Completely at odds with the ruling bodies own guidelines and rules, a blind eye was turned to HELP newco f.c. as they did not fit the criteria, it was not to punish oldco f.c.
As this has never been forcefully argued by the authorities it has allowed this lie to become passed of as fact.

I guess they have always been fearful of riling the nutters connected with sevco and that decisions have been made with their personal safety as paramount.
A deeper concern is that they are culpable, including RP and are concerned their collusion and compliance will be outed.
Its a poor show from Hibs.

So, they are culpable of turning a blind eye to their own rules regarding the recruitment of newco to the bottom tier?

In other words, that is the worrst that an enquiry could conclude?

And you still want an enquiry?

Why?

heretoday
12-09-2017, 04:02 PM
I'm trying to focus on the football for once. Joy rather than more turmoil is the aim.

ekhibee
12-09-2017, 04:06 PM
I'm about as far from happy as possible, the board are cowards to a man (and woman). Congratulations on smashing a big dent in the feel-good factor that's taken years to build.

Every single supporter in Scotland who bought tickets during the EBT years were conned as it was a rigged competition, yet our club seemingly deem this as acceptable and brush it under the carpet for some reason.

I honestly can't understand folk giving it let's just move on chat, if the Huns can get away with it once would you be surprised to see them pulling another ****s trick? Seems they're getting the running of Scottish football and when one of the supposed bigger clubs (US) have completely shat it in coming together and taking them to task then that speaks volumes.

This isn't just any club either. Have the board forgotten the lies perpetrated and how Rangers portrayed our club after the Cup Final?
Well said Sean, totally agree with every word mate.

snooky
12-09-2017, 05:35 PM
I think this is indicative of this whole sorry sh**storm.
The constant lies and misinformation that the authorities have allowed to be spouted so often they are now passed as facts.

The point is, and its a crucial one, rankgers were NOT demoted to the bottom tier. They ceased to exist, started again and were given a helping hand INTO the bottom tier. Completely at odds with the ruling bodies own guidelines and rules, a blind eye was turned to HELP newco f.c. as they did not fit the criteria, it was not to punish oldco f.c.
As this has never been forcefully argued by the authorities it has allowed this lie to become passed of as fact.

I guess they have always been fearful of riling the nutters connected with sevco and that decisions have been made with their personal safety as paramount.
A deeper concern is that they are culpable, including RP and are concerned their collusion and compliance will be outed.
Its a poor show from Hibs.

Some good points made there, ST. :agree:

SunshineOnLeith
12-09-2017, 07:36 PM
Brilliant post. Those are real facts, yet some still won't except it.

If we already know the real facts, why do we need an enquiry?

MrSmith
12-09-2017, 07:46 PM
If we already know the real facts, why do we need an enquiry?

I'd be happy to skip right to the prosecutions! :thumbsup:

Cropley10
12-09-2017, 08:00 PM
If we already know the real facts, why do we need an enquiry?

To call to account our corrupt so-called governing body

Cropley10
12-09-2017, 08:02 PM
That's a lot of vague notions. What specifically would an enquiry address?

How they could continue to lead with such high standards of governance, perhaps?

Cropley10
12-09-2017, 08:05 PM
Do you think they weren't aware of supporter feeling?

When the reps are appointed, people should be voting for those you trust to represent you, not somebody that comes on here (for example) evrey 5 minutes asking what they should do.

You sir are what the ignore function was designed for.

More folk should just mute you, you tedious, boring troll.

Peevemor
12-09-2017, 08:07 PM
You sir are what the ignore function was designed for.

More folk should just mute you, you tedious, boring troll.Eh? You've lost me there.

Cropley10
12-09-2017, 08:09 PM
Nonsense. We don't know what was said during board meetings. Maybe they put across the supporters' points of view very well.

It's also possible (likely?) that copies of any legal studies/reports were to hand. If lawyers say that there's no point in proceeding then I'd believe them, especially given that they'd be the only ones to benefit financially win or lose (a Rangers appeal against official sanctions would result in thousands of billable hours on both sides).

As for the decision being unanimous, I for one want want board members, fans' reps or not, to vote with their heads and not their hearts.

My final word - this whole farrago has all the legal status of a decision made at your local golf club.

There is nothing stopping a judicial review of the SFA or their decisions.

Peevemor
12-09-2017, 08:13 PM
My final word - this whole farrago has all the legal status of a decision made at your local golf club.

There is nothing stopping a judicial review of the SFA or their decisions.That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I'd like you to give an example of me trolling though.

Skol
12-09-2017, 08:20 PM
I am not sure what people expect to gain from anything more on this.

OK, I hate Rangers as much as the next man. The broke the rules on many fronts and as a result ceased to exist. Our authorities rightly didnt allow them to reform and retain their place but bent the rules to allow them to start in the 4th tier. Many have issues with this, but I dont. The new club though are a new club. They just happen to have the same supporters and infrastructure. However for all their bold claims, they have no honours other than those won since they re-formed.

Yes what Rangers did was wrong, but the club that cheated no longer exist and so whats the point of an enquiry. I dont believe the SFA or SPFL knew anything of what was going on at the time.

lapsedhibee
12-09-2017, 08:25 PM
I am not sure what people expect to gain from anything more on this.

OK, I hate Rangers as much as the next man. The broke the rules on many fronts and as a result ceased to exist. Our authorities rightly didnt allow them to reform and retain their place but bent the rules to allow them to start in the 4th tier. Many have issues with this, but I dont. The new club though are a new club. They just happen to have the same supporters and infrastructure. However for all their bold claims, they have no honours other than those won since they re-formed.

Yes what Rangers did was wrong, but the club that cheated no longer exist and so whats the point of an enquiry. I dont believe the SFA or SPFL knew anything of what was going on at the time.
It's not really a question of whether they knew at the time. It's what they did or didn't do when they found out.

Skol
12-09-2017, 08:26 PM
It's not really a question of whether they knew at the time. It's what they did or didn't do when they found out.

The club didnt exist by that time

Peevemor
12-09-2017, 08:31 PM
It's not really a question of whether they knew at the time. It's what they did or didn't do when they found out.I'd imagine they took legal advice every step of the way and on every decision that was taken. At the time Rod Petrie spoke publicly of sporting integrity and, if he was comfortable with how the matter was dealt with at the time (in regulatory terms) then maybe it's normal that he doesn't accept the need for a potentially very expensive enquiry.

Cropley10
12-09-2017, 08:33 PM
I dont believe the SFA or SPFL knew anything of what was going on at the time.

Sadly they did. They were in on it all. And that's why we need an enquiry.

Skol
12-09-2017, 08:34 PM
Sadly they did. They were in on it all. And that's why we need an enquiry.

I dont believe anyone outwith Celtic supporters really think that way.

lapsedhibee
12-09-2017, 08:35 PM
The club didnt exist by that time
And?

JeMeSouviens
12-09-2017, 08:37 PM
I am not sure what people expect to gain from anything more on this.

OK, I hate Rangers as much as the next man. The broke the rules on many fronts and as a result ceased to exist. Our authorities rightly didnt allow them to reform and retain their place but bent the rules to allow them to start in the 4th tier. Many have issues with this, but I dont. The new club though are a new club. They just happen to have the same supporters and infrastructure. However for all their bold claims, they have no honours other than those won since they re-formed.

Yes what Rangers did was wrong, but the club that cheated no longer exist and so whats the point of an enquiry. I dont believe the SFA or SPFL knew anything of what was going on at the time.

Seriously?

Campbell Ogilvie was SFA Vice President while getting paid by a ******g ebt!

lapsedhibee
12-09-2017, 08:40 PM
I'd imagine they took legal advice every step of the way and on every decision that was taken. At the time Rod Petrie spoke publicly of sporting integrity and, if he was comfortable with how the matter was dealt with at the time (in regulatory terms) then maybe it's normal that he doesn't accept the need for a potentially very expensive enquiry.
And I'd imagine that the reason the SFA are so determined that no inspection of their behaviour should take place is because one or more of its members (past or present, and not necessarily RP) would be embarrassed about something or other. Didn't you find anything at all odd about the LNS report, for example?

Cropley10
12-09-2017, 08:40 PM
I dont believe anyone outwith Celtic supporters really think that way.

What makes you say that.

Skol
12-09-2017, 08:41 PM
Seriously?

Campbell Ogilvie was SFA Vice President while getting paid by a ******g ebt!

Doesnt mean he told anyone at the SFA. In fact if he knew it was dodgy or illegal, why would you ? Means CO is corrupt but not the SFA

mjhibby
12-09-2017, 08:41 PM
While I agree sevco in any other normal set up would lose titles but this is Scotland with its unique sectarian issues and a governing body run for the two so called big clubs. Milne at Aberdeen has said the same as Ld and only celtic are wanting to go for the tItles being stripped. Of course the tItles should be stripped but we all know it ain't gonna happen and like the charities hertz bumped justice isn't gonna happen. Better to move on but point out at every opportunity that the sevco titles are tainted as we're the two cups hertz won using millions they never had. They are both huge embarrassments to Scottish football and always will be.

Cropley10
12-09-2017, 08:42 PM
Seriously?

Campbell Ogilvie was SFA Vice President while getting paid by a ******g ebt!

And thats just for starters! Thank you.

Cropley10
12-09-2017, 08:45 PM
Doesnt mean he told anyone at the SFA. In fact if he knew it was dodgy or illegal, why would you ? Means CO is corrupt but not the SFA

You must be at the wind up.

Ozyhibby
12-09-2017, 09:43 PM
I am not sure what people expect to gain from anything more on this.

OK, I hate Rangers as much as the next man. The broke the rules on many fronts and as a result ceased to exist. Our authorities rightly didnt allow them to reform and retain their place but bent the rules to allow them to start in the 4th tier. Many have issues with this, but I dont. The new club though are a new club. They just happen to have the same supporters and infrastructure. However for all their bold claims, they have no honours other than those won since they re-formed.

Yes what Rangers did was wrong, but the club that cheated no longer exist and so whats the point of an enquiry. I dont believe the SFA or SPFL knew anything of what was going on at the time.

You don't believe Campbell Ogilvie, on the board of the SFA, EBT recipient and the man who signed of the first of the ebt's knew what was going on?
That's incredible.


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SunshineOnLeith
12-09-2017, 10:37 PM
Sadly they did. They were in on it all. And that's why we need an enquiry.

Imagine how raging Cropley10 would be if there was an enquiry and it found that nobody was 'in on it'.

That's why we need an enquiry into the enquiry!

sadtom
13-09-2017, 01:07 AM
So, they are culpable of turning a blind eye to their own rules regarding the recruitment of newco to the bottom tier?

In other words, that is the worrst that an enquiry could conclude?

And you still want an enquiry?

Why?

No. That is not the point i'm trying to make.
That was merely to show that the authorities and their acolytes in the press could have shot down the myth that derhun were 'punished' every time the 'demoted' nonsense was spouted. They chose not to. This allowed the 'demoted' myth to gain currency, to be constantly repeated until such time it became the common byline to accompany newco's participation in the bottom tier. This was one of the main factors in derhun creating a 'victim' complex around their second coming. It allowed them to view themselves as 'persecuted' to justify their misplaced, beetroot faced (blue nosed) rage against everyone who stood up to them. When in fact their crimson complexion, should have been attributed to feelings of shame and embarrassment for cheating their way to success and robbing every paying punter in Scottish football.
That one simple option, 'to refute the 'demoted tag' (that seemed to accompany any comment on the subject, in the msm in particular) from the outset was not taken up.
The truth is they actually joined in with the fallacy that oldco were demoted. This ultimately contributed to derhun being able to establish a self justified, victim, seige mentality, that saw them spit venom and lash out threats of retribution, boycotts and revenge with impunity. This came from every random hunmonkey who had a mic shoved in their face, right up to king-of-derhun, Wattie Smith.
Instead of showing contrition and regret, while offering apology and begging for forgiveness, after receiving assistance NOT punishment from the Scottish football community.
They instead reverted to type and felt (self)justified in presenting the epitome of the cartoon hun. Pompous, swaggering, self-righteous, defiant, angry-faced wee bigots. With a hugely over inflated opinion of their place in the world never mind Scottish football.

Why did those individuals in positions of power within Scottish football not chose to quash the myth of 'demotion and punishment'?
I would guess there are several reasons.
As i suggested earlier. I reckon they were probably sh*t-scared for their own safety. Lets face it, derhun have plenty previous when it comes to intimidation and violence.
They were most likely being 'leant on' by people in positions of power in Scottish/British society, both inside and outside the footballing world.
I think they overestimated the financial importance of oldco to Scottish football. It certainly became obvious that the game could survive and even flourish without the odious stench of their boorish bigotry.
It dont think it can be discounted that their may also have been more corrupt or sinister reasons during the whole 5 year process, from possible financial impropriety, to mutually beneficial arrangements.
I think its more than likely that accusations of mismanagement and incompetence have validity.

Whatever the case. This is why i want a full independent, investigation of the whole sorry, shambolic affair.
To hold the officials and the organisations to account. If they have nothing to hide then i would think they would welcome the opportunity to clear themselves and remove the dark cloud that hangs over the game.

And yes, i absolutely believe that the titles from the EBT years should be removed from the dead club's record. You dont reward theft by allowing the thief to retain their ill-gotten gains.
If it takes an independent revue to establish this then so-be-it.

For the record i believe oldco's 'crimes' date well before the EBT years. Back to the mid/late 80's and the beginning of Murray's tenure. Though i dont believe it would be correct to strip the titles back that far.

What has always angered me most is the introduction of Murray into Scottish football signaled the 'boom and bust' that followed.
The braggadocios claim that 'for every £5 celtc spent, he'd spend £10. The reckless spending (£12 million on T A Flo - still gives me a chuckle) and the running up of debts on the 'never never'. Would be the thing that put the whole of Scottish football in peril.
Oldco going bust was the pimple popping but the pus had been building up for years and had infected all around it.
Of course all individual club are responsible for their own decisions but the reality is that oldco's scattercash approach pretty much forced the hands of all the other clubs into overspending (in their own smaller pro-rata scales) and living outwith their means. This led several clubs to the brink, including our own.
I think it is particularly pertinent to us. We saw our 'golden generation' sold to furnish our debts and keep the wolf from the door. At a time when we could have been challenging a much weaker oldco who should have been less financially able to entice our players away.
They didnt just rob titles...they stole our potential too. That's what really grates.

As far as i'm concerned there is no question that the gung-ho financial abandonment shown by oldco over the last 25 years of their history was what ultimately led to the serious malaise that engulfed the whole of Scottish football.
The unfair sporting advantage gained during the EBT years is without question. The fact that it was illegal means that there is a rock solid case for those titles to be removed.
If there is any justice that comes from all this then, despite the noisy protestations (see what i did there :wink:), made by the followers of the tribute act, the posthumous record of their parent club should rightly be partially diminished and a further part tainted and recalled by them in hushed tones.

Joe6-2
13-09-2017, 05:33 AM
No. That is not the point i'm trying to make.
That was merely to show that the authorities and their acolytes in the press could have shot down the myth that derhun were 'punished' every time the 'demoted' nonsense was spouted. They chose not to. This allowed the 'demoted' myth to gain currency, to be constantly repeated until such time it became the common byline to accompany newco's participation in the bottom tier. This was one of the main factors in derhun creating a 'victim' complex around their second coming. It allowed them to view themselves as 'persecuted' to justify their misplaced, beetroot faced (blue nosed) rage against everyone who stood up to them. When in fact their crimson complexion, should have been attributed to feelings of shame and embarrassment for cheating their way to success and robbing every paying punter in Scottish football.
That one simple option, 'to refute the 'demoted tag' (that seemed to accompany any comment on the subject, in the msm in particular) from the outset was not taken up.
The truth is they actually joined in with the fallacy that oldco were demoted. This ultimately contributed to derhun being able to establish a self justified, victim, seige mentality, that saw them spit venom and lash out threats of retribution, boycotts and revenge with impunity. This came from every random hunmonkey who had a mic shoved in their face, right up to king-of-derhun, Wattie Smith.
Instead of showing contrition and regret, while offering apology and begging for forgiveness, after receiving assistance NOT punishment from the Scottish football community.
They instead reverted to type and felt (self)justified in presenting the epitome of the cartoon hun. Pompous, swaggering, self-righteous, defiant, angry-faced wee bigots. With a hugely over inflated opinion of their place in the world never mind Scottish football.

Why did those individuals in positions of power within Scottish football not chose to quash the myth of 'demotion and punishment'?
I would guess there are several reasons.
As i suggested earlier. I reckon they were probably sh*t-scared for their own safety. Lets face it, derhun have plenty previous when it comes to intimidation and violence.
They were most likely being 'leant on' by people in positions of power in Scottish/British society, both inside and outside the footballing world.
I think they overestimated the financial importance of oldco to Scottish football. It certainly became obvious that the game could survive and even flourish without the odious stench of their boorish bigotry.
It dont think it can be discounted that their may also have been more corrupt or sinister reasons during the whole 5 year process, from possible financial impropriety, to mutually beneficial arrangements.
I think its more than likely that accusations of mismanagement and incompetence have validity.

Whatever the case. This is why i want a full independent, investigation of the whole sorry, shambolic affair.
To hold the officials and the organisations to account. If they have nothing to hide then i would think they would welcome the opportunity to clear themselves and remove the dark cloud that hangs over the game.

And yes, i absolutely believe that the titles from the EBT years should be removed from the dead club's record. You dont reward theft by allowing the thief to retain their ill-gotten gains.
If it takes an independent revue to establish this then so-be-it.

For the record i believe oldco's 'crimes' date well before the EBT years. Back to the mid/late 80's and the beginning of Murray's tenure. Though i dont believe it would be correct to strip the titles back that far.

What has always angered me most is the introduction of Murray into Scottish football signaled the 'boom and bust' that followed.
The braggadocios claim that 'for every £5 celtc spent, he'd spend £10. The reckless spending (£12 million on T A Flo - still gives me a chuckle) and the running up of debts on the 'never never'. Would be the thing that put the whole of Scottish football in peril.
Oldco going bust was the pimple popping but the pus had been building up for years and had infected all around it.
Of course all individual club are responsible for their own decisions but the reality is that oldco's scattercash approach pretty much forced the hands of all the other clubs into overspending (in their own smaller pro-rata scales) and living outwith their means. This led several clubs to the brink, including our own.
I think it is particularly pertinent to us. We saw our 'golden generation' sold to furnish our debts and keep the wolf from the door. At a time when we could have been challenging a much weaker oldco who should have been less financially able to entice our players away.
They didnt just rob titles...they stole our potential too. That's what really grates.

As far as i'm concerned there is no question that the gung-ho financial abandonment shown by oldco over the last 25 years of their history was what ultimately led to the serious malaise that engulfed the whole of Scottish football.
The unfair sporting advantage gained during the EBT years is without question. The fact that it was illegal means that there is a rock solid case for those titles to be removed.
If there is any justice that comes from all this then, despite the noisy protestations (see what i did there :wink:), made by the followers of the tribute act, the posthumous record of their parent club should rightly be partially diminished and a further part tainted and recalled by them in hushed tones.

Agree wholeheartedly, well said!!

The Baldmans Comb
13-09-2017, 05:46 AM
Doesnt mean he told anyone at the SFA. In fact if he knew it was dodgy or illegal, why would you ? Means CO is corrupt but not the SFA

You have to be at the wind up or are just a breathtaking simpleton.

hibsbollah
13-09-2017, 05:49 AM
I dont believe anyone outwith Celtic supporters really think that way.

I've started to think that way and I'm not a Celtic fan.

It's perfectly believable that back in the day, if other boards in Scotland found out about the Huns EBTs, they were happy to allow it to continue because they wanted to raise the profile of our mickey mouse league with the Gascoignes and the Laudrups coming in. In France, ligue 1 chairmen and the FRP are delighted with what's happening with PSG because the Neymar signing in particular puts that ligue on the map globally. It doesn't matter to a competing club chairman that sporting integrity is being compromised, he just wants money, TV deals and higher profile for his club.

Which brings us back to yesterday's statement...

Curried
13-09-2017, 06:19 AM
Really disappointed in the Boards statement.
We all see the world through different coloured glasses, but for Rod Pitrie to spook-off about “sporting integrity” a couple of years back, then turn a blind eye now just smacks of hypocrisy.

lyonhibs
13-09-2017, 06:24 AM
Seriously?

Campbell Ogilvie was SFA Vice President while getting paid by a ******g ebt!

I'm confused. Was he getting paid by Rangers via an EBT??? That would be explosive stuff.

Or was he getting paid by the SFA by an EBT?

I should state that have only a vague notion of who this guy is/was and no clue about his employment history.

MrSmith
13-09-2017, 07:01 AM
I'm confused. Was he getting paid by Rangers via an EBT??? That would be explosive stuff.

Or was he getting paid by the SFA by an EBT?

I should state that have only a vague notion of who this guy is/was and no clue about his employment history.
The unraveling of Campbell Ogilvie would be a blockbuster movie in itself. He is the virus, the traveling infection who brought it further than most. Rangers, Hearts and the SFA. If he was investigated thoroughly, we could begin the process of deconstructing this whole mess and put it to bed. However, he has happily taken the cash and sloped off somewhere with his secrets intact.

JeMeSouviens
13-09-2017, 07:28 AM
I'm confused. Was he getting paid by Rangers via an EBT??? That would be explosive stuff.

Or was he getting paid by the SFA by an EBT?

I should state that have only a vague notion of who this guy is/was and no clue about his employment history.

In the same way that Petrie is a SFA vp and simultaneously chairman of hibs, Ogilvie was a SFA vp and director of the old Huns.

Ozyhibby
13-09-2017, 08:16 AM
I'm confused. Was he getting paid by Rangers via an EBT??? That would be explosive stuff.

Or was he getting paid by the SFA by an EBT?

I should state that have only a vague notion of who this guy is/was and no clue about his employment history.

He was getting paid by Rangers via an EBT. He knew they were operating a dual contract system from the beginning yet he remained president of the SFA long after Rangers went bust. He now works for UEFA in compliance.


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JeMeSouviens
13-09-2017, 08:18 AM
https://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/2011/04/14/campbell-ogilvie/

stantonhibby
13-09-2017, 08:49 AM
https://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/2011/04/14/campbell-ogilvie/

That's from 2011.....I think Skacel was the player in question. Sure that's been discussed on here before.

lapsedhibee
13-09-2017, 08:53 AM
That's from 2011.....I think Skacel was the player in question. Sure that's been discussed on here before.

Yes, 2011. Raking over old coals. Campbell Ogilvie isn't in our starting line up on Saturday, therefore everything's fine.

MrSmith
13-09-2017, 09:14 AM
The past defines our future. The facts and evidence that is now coming to light, will ultimately shape the way forward if the fans demand and fund an independent review. I'm in!

snooky
13-09-2017, 09:33 AM
He was getting paid by Rangers via an EBT. He knew they were operating a dual contract system from the beginning yet he remained president of the SFA long after Rangers went bust. He now works for UEFA in compliance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dracula in charge of the Blood Bank?

Spike Mandela
13-09-2017, 10:00 AM
In no way would I relate the pursuit of justice for the Hillsborough victims to the pursuit of truth and transparency from football's governing body due to the obvious emotional impact of the former but I find this article interesting in the way campaigners were constantly thwarted by legal judgement and opinion.

If you believe there should be truth and transparency about the way our game is and was run I don't think we should give up asking the questions.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jun/28/long-road-justice-hillsborough-inquest-timeline

Allez Hibs
13-09-2017, 10:00 AM
Seriously hacked off at Hibs with this.

SunshineOnLeith
13-09-2017, 10:01 AM
In no way would I relate the pursuit of justice for the Hillsborough victims to the pursuit of truth and transparency from football's governing body due to the obvious emotional impact of the former but I find this article interesting in the way campaigners were constantly thwarted by legal judgement and opinion.

If you believe there should be truth and transparency about the way our game is and was run I don't think we should give up asking the questions.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jun/28/long-road-justice-hillsborough-inquest-timeline

Emotional impact and, you know, the fact that people died.

scoopyboy
13-09-2017, 10:04 AM
Seriously hacked off at Hibs with this.

You will get over it I'm sure.

Spike Mandela
13-09-2017, 10:18 AM
Emotional impact and, you know, the fact that people died.

Hence the reason why I prefaced my point to avoid comments like this. Purely concentrating on the process of pursuing transparency rather than the subject matter.

hibee
13-09-2017, 04:29 PM
I'm in the not bothered camp, genuinely not interested in hearing any more about this and would much prefer to discuss my own team.

poolman
13-09-2017, 04:41 PM
I'm in the not bothered camp, genuinely not interested in hearing any more about this and would much prefer to discuss my own team.


I'm with you on this

cabbageandribs1875
13-09-2017, 04:45 PM
hopefully Roderick never uses the word 'INTEGRITY' in future speeches/conversations, sickening he's part of the corruption, SFA GTF :agree: if only football had more men like the late Turnbull Hutton

Ómaigh-Hib
13-09-2017, 05:36 PM
Really disappointed in the Boards statement.
We all see the world through different coloured glasses, but for Rod Pitrie to spook-off about “sporting integrity” a couple of years back, then turn a blind eye now just smacks of hypocrisy.

That's where I am too. Since Celtic seemed to be the only club officially raising the issue, we would have been best to stay silent. A lot of people believe that the SFA have something to hide. We will be accused of complicity - rightly or wrongly.

147lothian
14-09-2017, 08:00 PM
To the question are you happy with Hibs statement on an EBT enquiry, as a previous poster says it really would have been better to have stayed silent on this one for me.

HoboHarry
15-09-2017, 12:52 PM
Good to see at least one journalist in this country with a set of balls......

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/competitions/premiership/opinion-stephen-mcilkenny-on-why-sfa-review-is-necessary-for-real-change-1-4561256

proud_and_green
16-09-2017, 01:46 PM
No I'm not and I want to see a proper enquiry into the whole handling of this scandal by the SFA and SPFL ...... If its true that they ( SFA / SPFL ) have painted themselves into a corner where they cant re visit the consequences of Rangers 1872's application of EBT's then they once again have proved their incompetence.

I presume Hibs have looked into the possibility of a legal review and what the outcome might be and are not the only club who have come to the conclusion along with the governing bodies that a lot of money could be spent on it with absolutely no prospect of a satisfactory outcome ... If that's the case at the very least the SFA and SPFL should publish a detailed statement as to what the legal situation is which would mean an attempt at stripping The Rangers 2012 of honours would be 'bound to fail' ..... a phrase often used in law to deny an applicant recourse to further legal review or appeal.

As for the board .......... I find it impossible to believe that they would be going down this route if they didn't feel it was the best option for the club, it would have been the easiest thing in the world for them to go with the flow on this one and side with the view of the majority of fans. The fact that they have not and put themselves in the firing line when it comes to the fans anger says to me that they have carefully considered their stance here .... just because I'm not happy with it doesn't mean I don't understand why they have come to the conclusion they have here.

As for boycotting matches as a result of this .... GTF .... Rangers have already caused enough damage, The Rangers 2012 and their fans wont give a stuff if fans of other clubs decide to boycott their own clubs because of their historical actions. Any anger we have should be directed towards the SFA and SPFL where it belongs, not Hibernian FC.

An excellent post and pretty much sums up my feelings on it. I think the board have taken a realistic standpoint and not an emotional one which is where most fans will be. I suspect though, emotionally, all board members will feel exactly the same way as most fans.

A Hi-Bee
16-09-2017, 02:33 PM
As the title says no real surprise with the statement just the amount of time it took to release, the game along with many other things in Scotland (probably most other country’s as well) has been corrupt as far as I can remember be it dodgy ref's or financial dealings. The record book should reflect this at least by saying the ******ers won by cheating, All my own humble opinion of course.

WhileTheChief..
16-09-2017, 06:42 PM
Didn't hear anyone at ER mention this at all today. Is it actually as issue in the wider Hibs support at all?

lapsedhibee
16-09-2017, 06:51 PM
Didn't hear anyone at ER mention this at all today. Is it actually as issue in the wider Hibs support at all?
Did you see the banner(s)? :dunno:

jaf
16-09-2017, 06:53 PM
Didn't hear anyone at ER mention this at all today. Is it actually as issue in the wider Hibs support at all?

Big banner in the top of the famous five saying "13,000 season tickets. No opinion heard, unanimous?"

Boys held it up for a large part of the first half.

ronaldo7
16-09-2017, 09:23 PM
19366

It seems, some in the singing section made their views known. :aok:

greenlex
16-09-2017, 09:54 PM
Didn't hear anyone at ER mention this at all today. Is it actually as issue in the wider Hibs support at all?

You couldn't have been near me in the West Lower.

Iain G
16-09-2017, 10:13 PM
Big banner in the top of the famous five saying "13,000 season tickets. No opinion heard, unanimous?"

Boys held it up for a large part of the first half.

Maybe the confusing banner confused the players in the second half 😁

Iain G
16-09-2017, 10:15 PM
Didn't hear anyone at ER mention this at all today. Is it actually as issue in the wider Hibs support at all?

I really do doubt that it is a wider issue amongst the support.

660
17-09-2017, 12:39 AM
I think everyone needs to take a step back and unite in joy at the fact that the rangers support has been driven to creating videos like this.

https://youtu.be/xY7ysdn4hmk

Forza Fred
17-09-2017, 05:05 AM
I think everyone needs to take a step back and unite in joy at the fact that the rangers support has been driven to creating videos like this.

https://youtu.be/xY7ysdn4hmk

They really are pitiful!