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Jack
06-09-2017, 06:02 PM
I'm not sure this should be here or in the Holy Ground.

"Labour: Scrap betting ads on football kits

Labour says it would ban gambling firms from advertising on football shirts if it came to power.

The party's deputy leader Tom Watson said football had to "play its part in tackling Britain's hidden epidemic of gambling addiction".

Nine English Premier League clubs - and three in Scotland's top flight - have kits sponsored by betting companies.

Gambling on football was worth a record £1.4bn to bookmakers over a 12-month period, figures revealed in May."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41172425


Besides the financial side for Hibs Marathonbet have been great to the Hibs Supporters in so many ways. But I suppose that's part of their cunning plan.


On another note I think gambling and advertising laws are reserved to Westminster. If that's the case it's disappointing Labour have chosen to ignore anyone but England in its policy launch!

cabbageandribs1875
06-09-2017, 06:10 PM
if it's anything to do with the labour party it should be on the cheese board, unless we start a comedy gold board

snooky
06-09-2017, 06:16 PM
If I was a footballer, I'd change my name by deed of poll to BetFred.
Think how many back-handers and opportunities you'd get if you got on zitelli.

Firestarter
06-09-2017, 06:43 PM
If I was a footballer, I'd change my name by deed of poll to BetFred.
Think how many back-handers and opportunities you'd get if you got on zitelli.

There must be William Hills out there, you could do it that way and not even a blink of an eye would be had.

heretoday
06-09-2017, 06:44 PM
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Or something like that.

Firestarter
06-09-2017, 06:48 PM
There's no way it would come into place. They would have to ban advertising too and the money pumped in through adverts is too much. Having a gambling sponsor doesn't make me bet with marathon bet unless I'm in the ground. Familiarity all the way. I'm not leaving bet 355 regardless of how decent outside the box is.

Viva_Palmeiras
06-09-2017, 07:00 PM
I'm not sure this should be here or in the Holy Ground.

"Labour: Scrap betting ads on football kits

Labour says it would ban gambling firms from advertising on football shirts if it came to power.

The party's deputy leader Tom Watson said football had to "play its part in tackling Britain's hidden epidemic of gambling addiction".

Nine English Premier League clubs - and three in Scotland's top flight - have kits sponsored by betting companies.

Gambling on football was worth a record £1.4bn to bookmakers over a 12-month period, figures revealed in May."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41172425


Besides the financial side for Hibs Marathonbet have been great to the Hibs Supporters in so many ways. But I suppose that's part of their cunning plan.


On another note I think gambling and advertising laws are reserved to Westminster. If that's the case it's disappointing Labour have chosen to ignore anyone but England in its policy launch!


Ticking time-bomb that was set but Labour when they opened up to online gambling. Had one between being a nanny state and probably subjected to lobbying/legal action/EU competition rulings (I'm guessing) versus opening it up (which they did).

Sammy7nil
06-09-2017, 07:10 PM
Ticking time-bomb that was set but Labour when they opened up to online gambling. Had one between being a nanny state and probably subjected to lobbying/legal action/EU competition rulings (I'm guessing) versus opening it up (which they did).

You cant bet online in several EU countries. I am all for the ban bookies are jusf ripping the piish out of skint vulnerable people as well as some very weak stupid people.

ancient hibee
06-09-2017, 07:20 PM
You cant bet online in several EU countries. I am all for the ban bookies are jusf ripping the piish out of skint vulnerable people as well as some very weak stupid people.


Surely then it's the bookies that should be banned not football clubs making money off them.

Sammy7nil
06-09-2017, 07:27 PM
Surely then it's the bookies that should be banned not football clubs making money off them.

Yeah ban em all :greengrin:agree:

Diclonius
06-09-2017, 07:30 PM
About time too. Unregulated gambling advertising is rampant in this country. I'll put it this way - no one would be complaining about the loss of money if it was smoking adverts that were plastered everywhere. Gambling is just as addictive and has just of a catastrophic effect on the individual's life if they get addicted (if not more considering the sums of money involved) and the advertising preys on these kind of people.

Pete
06-09-2017, 07:45 PM
About time too. Unregulated gambling advertising is rampant in this country. I'll put it this way - no one would be complaining about the loss of money if it was smoking adverts that were plastered everywhere. Gambling is just as addictive and has just of a catastrophic effect on the individual's life if they get addicted (if not more considering the sums of money involved) and the advertising preys on these kind of people.

There's really no such thing as responsible smoking as any amount of it is harmful in some way. Gambling, while addictive in some cases, is totally harmless to the vast majority who enjoy it in moderation. Why should they suffer?

I'm willing to bet that alcohol ruins more lives than gambling.

Firestarter
06-09-2017, 07:58 PM
There's really no such thing as responsible smoking as any amount of it is harmful in some way. Gambling, while addictive in some cases, is totally harmless to the vast majority who enjoy it in moderation. Why should they suffer?

I'm willing to bet that alcohol ruins more lives than gambling.


Gambling is the silent addiction that costs people a lot more financially if not physically.

LancsHibs
06-09-2017, 08:01 PM
I'll give you 20/1 on that ever happening😋

Glory Lurker
06-09-2017, 08:07 PM
Don't see the point in this. Post-Brexit, the country's going to be like Mad Max so adverts on fitba tops aren't going to catch much attention.

Sammy7nil
06-09-2017, 08:07 PM
There's really no such thing as responsible smoking as any amount of it is harmful in some way. Gambling, while addictive in some cases, is totally harmless to the vast majority who enjoy it in moderation. Why should they suffer?

I'm willing to bet that alcohol ruins more lives than gambling.

There is only so much you can drink not making light of alcohol abuse but there was a story last week a guy lost over a million on 888 website he was stealing ended up in prison. People lose their house and families through gambling addiction.

Pete
06-09-2017, 08:12 PM
I'm aware of what happens and what can be lost when someone is addicted to gambling.

That's the extreme end though and we shouldn't ban it because it's addictive. There are surely other ways to prevent the tragic instances of people being allowed to blow such sums.

Stuart93
06-09-2017, 08:23 PM
Betfred cup, William hill Scottish cup, Ladbroke premiership...gambling agencies fund our game

Scouse Hibee
06-09-2017, 08:24 PM
Has advertising on a football shirt ever driven anyone to drink or gamble?

Sammy7nil
06-09-2017, 08:25 PM
has advertising on a football shirt ever driven anyone to drink or gamble?

yes

GreenNWhiteArmy
06-09-2017, 08:27 PM
Bonkers. Never gonna happen.

Alcohol/fast food chains/companies that use child/cheap labour - these will never get "banned"

Soccer Saturday are terrible for flaunting betting. More people probably watch that than attend matches up and down the country. Doubt that'll ever get stopped

AZhibee
06-09-2017, 08:27 PM
There's really no such thing as responsible smoking as any amount of it is harmful in some way. Gambling, while addictive in some cases, is totally harmless to the vast majority who enjoy it in moderation. Why should they suffer?

I'm willing to bet that alcohol ruins more lives than gambling.

Bit dramatic there, who would "suffer" if the leagues and clubs were sponsored by entities other than gambling houses.

Pete
06-09-2017, 08:34 PM
Bit dramatic there, who would "suffer" if the leagues and clubs were sponsored by entities other than gambling houses.

I suppose "suffer" is the wrong term. I, along with many others, like gambling and the promotions the companies offer. I think people were talking about banning it altogether on here or at least disassociating it with sport (which seems bizarre).

GreenOnions
06-09-2017, 08:35 PM
It's about time someone stood up to these business lobbies. Gambling addiction is a big and growing problem in this country and the group most hit is those already on low incomes. The number of betting commercials on all forms of media is almost overwhelming and pernicious and advertising it on sports kit that is coveted by kids is ridiculous.

The argument that sport needs the money is nonsense. Formula 1 went on and on for years about how banning tobacco advertising would kill their sport. I don't see any reduction in the riches generated by that. However, big business always predicts the end of the world if it's suggested that one of their cash-cows is at risk. Somehow it always seems to survive.

People can gamble if they want but, ultimately, the betting industry is one of the most effective methods known of transferring money directly from poorer and middle class people to the wealthy. It is entirely possible not to interfere with individuals' rights while at the same time stopping actively enabling industries such as gambling. Society should really take a moral position on the extent to which certain activities can be promoted - especially to an audience including a significant number of children.

We need to reverse a sporting industry trend and start putting principle before money. I'd like to see a ban on both gambling and alcohol advertising in all its forms in all sport and during all live sporting broadcasts.

Pleased to see some morality break out in politics :agree:

Scouse Hibee
06-09-2017, 08:35 PM
yes

How do you know?

AZhibee
06-09-2017, 08:38 PM
How do you know?

The whole point of advertising is to increase consumption of the product.

Bishop Hibee
06-09-2017, 08:40 PM
One might think Labour would have more to deal with than who sponsors football teams when they get into power. Marathon Bet have actually been good sponsors of Hibs with plenty interactive stuff and promotion of the club.

Who would Labour suggest as sponsors who would put as much into football and are ethical under whatever criteria they are using?

Sammy7nil
06-09-2017, 08:40 PM
How do you know?

It's simple really these organisations would not waste a penny on advertising if they did not get a return.

anon1875
06-09-2017, 08:40 PM
Can't stand Labour but this is good imo

GreenOnions
06-09-2017, 08:41 PM
Has advertising on a football shirt ever driven anyone to drink or gamble?

If there's no evidence of this then why do gambling companies spend so much money promoting their product on shirts? That'd be nuts wouldn't it?

Sammy7nil
06-09-2017, 08:42 PM
One might think Labour would have more to deal with than who sponsors football teams when they get into power. Marathon Bet have actually been good sponsors of Hibs with plenty interactive stuff and promotion of the club.

Who would Labour suggest as sponsors who would put as much into football and are ethical under whatever criteria they are using?

How many Hibs fans had placed a bet with Marathon prior to them sponsoring Hibs? How many have an account with Marathon now?

jacomo
06-09-2017, 08:42 PM
You cant bet online in several EU countries. I am all for the ban bookies are jusf ripping the piish out of skint vulnerable people as well as some very weak stupid people.


:agree:

Scouse Hibee
06-09-2017, 08:44 PM
The whole point of advertising is to increase consumption of the product.

Still doesn't prove that anyone has ever been driven by a name on a football shirt. Keeps the name out there but introduced people to their product I very much doubt it.

I never bought one single tin of crown paint!

Pete
06-09-2017, 08:45 PM
Gambling and alcohol companies mainly spend money to make people choose their product over others, not entice people into the world of gambling or drinking.
Even if there is an argument that it normalises certain activities, where is the outcry and call for morality regarding alcohol advertising? Why is one different?

Is one quantifiably worse than the other?

Scouse Hibee
06-09-2017, 08:46 PM
If there's no evidence of this then why do gambling companies spend so much money promoting their product on shirts? That'd be nuts wouldn't it?

Keeps the name out there. Choose their product over others not always introducing them to gambling.

GreenOnions
06-09-2017, 08:46 PM
Still doesn't prove that anyone has ever been driven by a name on a football shirt. Keeps the name out there but introduced people to their product I very much doubt it.

This is the same argument that the tobacco industry always used in defence of its advertising. They always claimed that their ads were only to encourage those who already smoked to switch brands - and not to encourage new smokers.

Sammy7nil
06-09-2017, 08:47 PM
Still doesn't prove that anyone has ever been driven by a name on a football shirt. Keeps the name out there but introduced people to their product I very much doubt it.

I never bought one single tin of crown paint!

There will be plenty Hibs fans with a Marathon betting account now that had never heard of Marathon until they sponored Hibs

Scouse Hibee
06-09-2017, 08:47 PM
This is the same argument that the tobacco industry always used in defence of its advertising. They always claimed that their ads were only to encourage those who already smoked to switch brands - and not to encourage new smokers.

I agree with them.

Scouse Hibee
06-09-2017, 08:48 PM
There will be plenty Hibs fans with a Marathon betting account now that had never heard of Marathon until they sponored Hibs

Yes but they already gambled with other companies I'll bet.

Mick O'Rourke
06-09-2017, 08:50 PM
I blame Hibernian FC for all this.:wink:

Shirt sponsor pioneers with Bukta!

Or was it Bookieta :greengrin

I like the style of this years strip.
However, i wish i could buy one though without the main sponsors name blazoned on the front.

Sammy7nil
06-09-2017, 08:50 PM
Gambling and alcohol companies mainly spend money to make people choose their product over others, not entice people into the world of gambling or drinking.
Even if there is an argument that it normalises certain activities, where is the outcry and call for morality regarding alcohol advertising? Why is one different?

Is one quantifiably worse than the other?

Have you not noticed that major alcohol companies no longer sponsor football?

Scouse Hibee
06-09-2017, 08:52 PM
Have you not noticed that major alcohol companies no longer sponsor football?

Has the drinking stopped as a result of that?

Scouse Hibee
06-09-2017, 08:54 PM
Accessibility to gambling is the real problem.

Roxyhibee
06-09-2017, 08:55 PM
Still doesn't prove that anyone has ever been driven by a name on a football shirt. Keeps the name out there but introduced people to their product I very much doubt it.

I never bought one single tin of crown paint!

You appear carelessly naive on a very serious subject.

lord bunberry
06-09-2017, 08:56 PM
Accessibility to gambling is the real problem.

True, I sometimes struggle late at night to get a decent bet on.

Pete
06-09-2017, 08:56 PM
Have you not noticed that major alcohol companies no longer sponsor football?

Why's that?

Scouse Hibee
06-09-2017, 08:58 PM
You appear carelessly naive on a very serious subject.

Different opinion on the effects of advertising is not being naive.

Firestarter
06-09-2017, 08:59 PM
Why's that?


Gambling companies offer more money.

Scouse Hibee
06-09-2017, 09:00 PM
True, I sometimes struggle late at night to get a decent bet on.

Do you give up and drink instead?

Sammy7nil
06-09-2017, 09:00 PM
Accessibility to gambling is the real problem.

Totally agree you can now bet 24/7 in the comfort of your home with no limits. This rise in betting will eventually ruin more lives than alcohol.

Roxyhibee
06-09-2017, 09:05 PM
Different opinion on the effects of advertising is not being naive.

Go and read studies on the impact of gambling advertising on adolescents in particular and its effects in them and tell me if you think someone can have an opinion on a subject like that.

In fact, maybe first - go and read when it's relevant to have an opinion on a subject.

Sammy7nil
06-09-2017, 09:05 PM
Why's that?

I think it is because it has been proven it causes health problems and sport in general has moved away from it because of the negative research studies

Pete
06-09-2017, 09:06 PM
Gambling companies offer more money.

That's what I initially thought was the only reason but apparently there's a code of conduct that prohibits alcohol to be used as a main shirt sponsor.
Globalisation of the game and the cash it brings means gambling firms have filled the void.

It still doesn't stop the top teams in the world having lucrative deals with alcohol "partners" though.

Pete
06-09-2017, 09:10 PM
Totally agree you can now bet 24/7 in the comfort of your home with no limits. This rise in betting will eventually ruin more lives than alcohol.

To be honest, when you consider the materialistic society we live in you can understand people's desperation and temptation.

While I don't agree with a major clamp down on advertising, there has to be tough regulation and mechanisms that limit people spending too much.

Scouse Hibee
06-09-2017, 09:12 PM
Go and read studies on the impact of gambling advertising on adolescents in particular and its effects in them and tell me if you think someone can have an opinion on a subject like that.

In fact, maybe first - go and read when it's relevant to have an opinion on a subject.

Hark at you Mr self righteous! Go and read a book if you don't like differing opinions on an internet forum. I prefer real life studies and personal experience, I also respect not everyone will agree.

Pretty Boy
06-09-2017, 09:17 PM
Bit dramatic there, who would "suffer" if the leagues and clubs were sponsored by entities other than gambling houses.

There's not exactly been a queue of other companies looking to throw comparitive money at Scottish football in recent years.

Fwiw I don't think we can simply ban or try to hide everything that has a potentially negative impact on individuals. People get addicted to junk food, OTC medicines, pornography and countless other things. Gambling is a regulated industry and the vast majority of consumers enjoy it with minimal adverse effects.

Sammy7nil
06-09-2017, 09:19 PM
There's not exactly been a queue of other companies looking to throw comparitive money at Scottish football in recent years.

Fwiw I don't think we can simply ban or try to hide everything that has a potentially negative impact on individuals. People get addicted to junk food, OTC medicines, pornography and countless other things. Gambling is a regulated industry and the vast majority of consumers enjoy it with minimal adverse effects.

I agree Playboy should sponsor Hibs :greengrin:wink:

Scouse Hibee
06-09-2017, 09:24 PM
I agree Playboy should sponsor Hibs :greengrin:wink:

Would we have a Bunny Mascot?

Roxyhibee
06-09-2017, 09:25 PM
Hark at you Mr self righteous! Go and read a book if you don't like differing opinions on an internet forum. I prefer real life studies and personal experience, I also respect not everyone will agree.

It's not a differing opinion, don't you get that.? You're utterly lost on this subject.

Firestarter
06-09-2017, 09:25 PM
That's what I initially thought was the only reason but apparently there's a code of conduct that prohibits alcohol to be used as a main shirt sponsor.
Globalisation of the game and the cash it brings means gambling firms have filled the void.

It still doesn't stop the top teams in the world having lucrative deals with alcohol "partners" though.

Yeah I'm perhaps being ignorant. Gambling companies taking over from cigarettes in snooker another example.

Probably not a football related thread mind. I know personally if there was no online gambling and just your bookies that closed at 7 and 5 on a Sunday I would have saved over thousands and I don't even like the roulette terminals that people seem to lose hundreds in the space of minutes. You might get gubbed smoking and drinking but at least there will be health warnings with that. Gambling you can keep to yourself and live off beans and toast. Thankfully I've a very young couple of children that are my priority ahead of anything and love for them sorted me out. Others I know just can't help blowing everything.

Scouse Hibee
06-09-2017, 09:25 PM
It's not a differing opinion, don't you get that.? You're utterly lost on this subject.

Get a life mate! Put me on ignore or do something but please stop trying to sound superior, you're coming across as a right erse.

emerald green
06-09-2017, 09:31 PM
I agree Playboy should sponsor Hibs :greengrin:wink:

Did Tampax not sponsor HMFC at one time?

Scouse Hibee
06-09-2017, 09:32 PM
Did Tampax not sponsor HMFC at one time?

That was a period tbey would rather forget about.

emerald green
06-09-2017, 09:34 PM
That was a period tbey would rather forget about.

Good one lad. :greengrin

Pete
06-09-2017, 09:38 PM
Yeah I'm perhaps being ignorant. Gambling companies taking over from cigarettes in snooker another example.

Probably not a football related thread mind. I know personally if there was no online gambling and just your bookies that closed at 7 and 5 on a Sunday I would have saved over thousands and I don't even like the roulette terminals that people seem to lose hundreds in the space of minutes. You might get gubbed smoking and drinking but at least there will be health warnings with that. Gambling you can keep to yourself and live off beans and toast. Thankfully I've a very young couple of children that are my priority ahead of anything and love for them sorted me out. Others I know just can't help blowing everything.

I'll join the ignorant club too as I didn't know that either up until a wee while ago. :-)

I suppose I'll bow out by considering myself lucky that I don't have a gambling problem. No doudt I'd feel differently on the subject if I was unlucky enough to have one, or was an expert on the subject.

When a decision regarding this is inevitably made, you wonder who will have a hand in it and who will be of primary concern.

Roxyhibee
06-09-2017, 09:38 PM
Get a life mate!

Witty as well.

You could certainly enhance yours by informing yourself on the more serious subjects in life which rely on factual studies before blowing hot air and calling them opinions.

Many things are not opinions and the effects of advertising is one of them. Maybe you'd like to find me a study which concludes that visual advertising alcohol, cigarettes and gambling has no effect on adolescents and other groups in society.

High-On-Hibs
06-09-2017, 09:45 PM
They'll scrap it, just like they scrapped the house of lards.

Oh wait.

monktonharp
06-09-2017, 09:45 PM
I'm not sure this should be here or in the Holy Ground.

"Labour: Scrap betting ads on football kits

Labour says it would ban gambling firms from advertising on football shirts if it came to power.

The party's deputy leader Tom Watson said football had to "play its part in tackling Britain's hidden epidemic of gambling addiction".

Nine English Premier League clubs - and three in Scotland's top flight - have kits sponsored by betting companies.

Gambling on football was worth a record £1.4bn to bookmakers over a 12-month period, figures revealed in May."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41172425


Besides the financial side for Hibs Marathonbet have been great to the Hibs Supporters in so many ways. But I suppose that's part of their cunning plan.


On another note I think gambling and advertising laws are reserved to Westminster. If that's the case it's disappointing Labour have chosen to ignore anyone but England in its policy launch! why are we even considering "labour" on this forum? some would be instantly slated for even a hint of SNP.keep Scotland british an aw that. can see this getting abit nasty, and I WONT HOLD BACK WITH MY OPINION IF IT GOES ON AND ON. punt it to the holy ground, or whatever

Scouse Hibee
06-09-2017, 09:45 PM
Witty as well.

You could certainly enhance yours by informing yourself on the more serious subjects in life which rely on factual studies before blowing hot air and calling them opinions.

Many things are not opinions and the effects of advertising is one of them. Maybe you'd like to find me a study which concludes that visual advertising alcohol, cigarettes and gambling has no effect on adolescents and other groups in society.

Aww not you again! Okay you win, you have bullied me into submission. I'm away to hide in a dark room under my duvet, taking periodic looks at .net in the hope that you have finally had enough of belittling me with your superior knowledge of advertising studies and the definition of opinions. Take a bow Mr Superior!


Just for you!

a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
"that, in my opinion, is right"

Roxyhibee
06-09-2017, 09:50 PM
Aww not you again! Okay you win, you have bullied me into submission. I'm away to hide in a dark room under my duvet, taking periodic looks at .net in the hope that you have finally had enough of belittling me with your superior knowledge of advertising studies and the definition of opinions. Take a bow Mr Superior!

Apologise if it's came over as superior, we were getting a bit heated there, which isn't like me.

But there'll be people on this thread that have experienced the devastating effects of alcohol and gambling addiction - and has been pointed out, the advertising beast knows exactly what it's doing.

Im not going to block you - I enjoy alot of your opinions.

High-On-Hibs
06-09-2017, 09:57 PM
Advertising has a massive impact on behaviour. The worst victims of it are those who don't even realize the impact that it has on themselves. The world is full of subliminal marketing these days for one reason only, it works.

Scouse Hibee
06-09-2017, 09:58 PM
Apologise if it's came over as superior, we were getting a bit heated there, which isn't like me.

But there'll be people on this thread that have experienced the devastating effects of alcohol and gambling addiction - and has been pointed out, the advertising beast knows exactly what it's doing.

Im not going to block you - I enjoy alot of your opinions.

Fair enough, no need to apologise mate, all is good, maybe too easy to get carried away by a very emotive subject on my part too.

Roxyhibee
06-09-2017, 09:58 PM
Fair enough, no need to apologise mate, all is good, maybe too easy to get carried away by a very emotive subject on my part too.

Agree.

monktonharp
06-09-2017, 09:58 PM
I remember an Ad, which was on tv no doubt by the national health board or such, at the time. possibly late 60's or early 70's. It went something like (sung) I never gambled, I never gargled, I never smoked at'all. until I MET MY..... 2 GOOD AMIGOS, NICOTINE AND ALCHOHOL. Apart from that, I really miss gaun tae the Dugs. Wallyford, Tranent and Lithgae. Powderhall was tops but the greyhound Gaff tracks were guid tae.

Firestarter
06-09-2017, 10:00 PM
I'll join the ignorant club too as I didn't know that either up until a wee while ago. :-)

I suppose I'll bow out by considering myself lucky that I don't have a gambling problem. No doudt I'd feel differently on the subject if I was unlucky enough to have one, or was an expert on the subject.

When a decision regarding this is inevitably made, you wonder who will have a hand in it and who will be of primary concern.

Good man and good points Pete :)

weecounty hibby
06-09-2017, 10:02 PM
It can also have the reverse effect. I wouldn't let my mrs drink Strongbow for years when they sponsored hearts!! Also would never drink McUrines lager. Though that was as much to do with it being pish as sponsoring the Hun. In seriousness advertising does work. The company I work for has an annual marketing and advertising spend of £2Billion globally and the facts are that sales of the targeted products increase considerably with an increase of advertising spend.

Bishop Hibee
06-09-2017, 10:07 PM
Taking this back to some sort of HIbs related chat, who would Hibs get who would put in a similar amount of money? A quick surf of the net shows that since season 1996/97 we've had either alcohol or betting companies with their names on the shirt apart from two seasons wth McEwan Fraser. We've got the unethical double whammy of a bookie on the front and a gin maker on the back this season.

In other countries, companies like Ford, Toyota, major telecom companies like Telstra in Oz, fast food and drink companies, banks etc as well as alcohol and gambling companies support the national sport and want to be associated with it. In Scotland we still have a corporate class divide which seems to have got worse recently as the banks have pulled out of supporting football. Companies like BT ad Standard Life Aberdeen prefer to support golf and Rugby Union. Break down this snobbery and we might see some variety in the major sponsors of our national game.

RyeSloan
06-09-2017, 10:16 PM
Taking this back to some sort of HIbs related chat, who would Hibs get who would put in a similar amount of money? A quick surf of the net shows that since season 1996/97 we've had either alcohol or betting companies with their names on the shirt apart from two seasons wth McEwan Fraser. We've got the unethical double whammy of a bookie on the front and a gin maker on the back this season.

In other countries, companies like Ford, Toyota, major telecom companies like Telstra in Oz, fast food and drink companies, banks etc as well as alcohol and gambling companies support the national sport and want to be associated with it. In Scotland we still have a corporate class divide which seems to have got worse recently as the banks have pulled out of supporting football. Companies like BT ad Standard Life Aberdeen prefer to support golf and Rugby Union. Break down this snobbery and we might see some variety in the major sponsors of our national game.

Yet many would say McEwan Fraser are some what morally bankrupt as well with some of their business practices.

Seems a rather narrow target the club main sponsor thing...are they going to ban Bet365 advertising at half time on every game on Sky as well? Regulate the number of bookies? Force daily limits on all online gambling? Ban spread betting? If not then it's a pathetic sound bite of a policy that will do bigger all to change anything.

monktonharp
06-09-2017, 10:23 PM
It can also have the reverse effect. I wouldn't let my mrs drink Strongbow for years when they sponsored hearts!! Also would never drink McUrines lager. Though that was as much to do with it being pish as sponsoring the Hun. In seriousness advertising does work. The company I work for has an annual marketing and advertising spend of £2Billion globally and the facts are that sales of the targeted products increase considerably with an increase of advertising spend.Widnae be Deagio by any chance ?:wink: your location implies such

IberianHibernian
06-09-2017, 10:23 PM
Would love to see Hibs with no shirt/shorts sponsor . I`m sure we`d sell more shirts especially kids`ones . Would agree with a ban on tobacco / bookies /booze cos on strips but ideally clubs themselves would take that decision . We were forerunners with shirt sponsorship maybe now we could be first to say we don`t want commercial names on strips .

weecounty hibby
06-09-2017, 10:25 PM
Widnae be Deagio by any chance ?:wink: your location implies such

Could be. Your spelling is a bit off though!!!

weecounty hibby
06-09-2017, 10:30 PM
Would love to see Hibs with no shirt/shorts sponsor . I`m sure we`d sell more shirts especially kids`ones . Would agree with a ban on tobacco / bookies /booze cos on strips but ideally clubs themselves would take that decision . We were forerunners with shirt sponsorship maybe now we could be first to say we don`t want commercial names on strips .
That sounds very noble but how would Hibs replace the money they would lose from probably our biggest revenue stream outside ticket money or player sales? Kids strips are no longer allowed to have alcohol or gambling companies on them at the moment so not sure that would make a difference. It's not that I disagree with you by the way, I just can't see that ever happening

monktonharp
06-09-2017, 10:30 PM
Yet many would say McEwan Fraser are some what morally bankrupt as well with some of their business practices.

Seems a rather narrow target the club main sponsor thing...are they going to ban Bet365 advertising at half time on every game on Sky as well? Regulate the number of bookies? Force daily limits on all online gambling? Ban spread betting? If not then it's a pathetic sound bite of a policy that will do bigger all to change anything.Scrupples and Morality rarely come into focus, with successful businesses. If it does, I think it tends to be more of a Promotional exercise rather than an actual moral issue. call me a cynic

Michael
06-09-2017, 10:37 PM
I don't really think the shirt sponsors matter much. Bigger issue is the millions of gambling adverts whenever football is on TV.

monktonharp
06-09-2017, 10:42 PM
Could be. Your spelling is a bit off though!!! oh gosh. getting tired:greengrin

monktonharp
06-09-2017, 10:48 PM
I don't really think the shirt sponsors matter much. Bigger issue is the millions of gambling adverts whenever football is on TV.good point. does not entice me, in any way though Michael. must have an effect in some way to those who have that affliction, or betting habit? my brother-in-law likes the nags, but has sensibly drawn a line as to how many bets he'll play. others may do different.

ajf
06-09-2017, 11:18 PM
There's really no such thing as responsible smoking as any amount of it is harmful in some way. Gambling, while addictive in some cases, is totally harmless to the vast majority who enjoy it in moderation. Why should they suffer?

I'm willing to bet that alcohol ruins more lives than gambling.

I'll drink to that .:greengrin

Steve-O
06-09-2017, 11:31 PM
If drink and gambling are banned as sponsors, where exactly is the necessary sponsorship money going to come from?

Lets face it, these two things are inextricably linked with football/sport. It seems a nonsense to prohibit them from advertising to sports fans.

Clearly some people do have issues with gambling, but surely the vast majority do not? Same with drinking. Do we really need to be mollycoddled in this way? I don't believe we do.

NAE NOOKIE
06-09-2017, 11:36 PM
I would take a guess and say that the biggest problem with gambling these days isn't the advertising so much as the 24/7 availability of the opportunity to gamble ..... Its noticeable that the bookies have started to target females significantly, with bingo sites and 'tombola' whatever that is.

I doubt this will come to anything unless the football authorities can be persuaded to voluntarily self regulate ..... I cant imagine any government being able to force clubs to ditch betting company shirt sponsorship unless it was as part of a wider government drive to ban such adverts and sponsorship from all media such as television. To attempt to force one type of business out of the market for gambling advertising and not another such as horse racing would probably be against some sort of fair competition law I would imagine.

Most advertising IMO is about brand awareness rather than persuading people to partake in the activity itself, though I've no doubt that does happen .... my own experience is that I may try a different brand or innovation of something I already enjoy because of an advert, I cant think of an example of something completely new I've tried because I saw it on the telly.

One thing that does seem clear is that politicians never seem to tire of finding ways to cost football clubs money ... all seater stadiums, bans on the sale of alcohol and now prospective bans on what they can advertise on their shirts. What's worse is that when they think of these things they rarely have leagues like the SPFL in mind, they think of the EPL where the clubs aren't so dependent on revenue streams like shirt advertising.

Waiting in hope for the day when politicians say .... 'we are going to back up all the hot air we come out with about football clubs being vital parts of the community and our never ending need to jump on the back of any success of a club or country we have even the most tenuous link with by actually helping them by pumping some decent money into the game'

poolman
07-09-2017, 12:10 AM
About time too. Unregulated gambling advertising is rampant in this country. I'll put it this way - no one would be complaining about the loss of money if it was smoking adverts that were plastered everywhere. Gambling is just as addictive and has just of a catastrophic effect on the individual's life if they get addicted (if not more considering the sums of money involved) and the advertising preys on these kind of people.

What a lot of nonsense

What next ? Stop people from leaving the house, wandering around the city so they don't see all of the William Hill and Ladbroke shops

Like it or not gambling is part of our culture and to compare it with smoking is laughable

R'Albin
07-09-2017, 06:05 AM
Did Tampax not sponsor HMFC at one time?

So they were in the red in more ways than one.

Tinribs
07-09-2017, 06:24 AM
I was a little uneasy when Hibs first announced the tie up with marathon, but as others have said they have actually been rather good with the club and fans. I would rather have them than the entity that used to be called Aberdeen asset management.

I do feel sympathy for problem gamblers, I also feel sympathy for problem drinkers but the vast majority of people seem to tick along ok. Education and regulation are probably the best ways to deal with issues.

Godsahibby
07-09-2017, 06:37 AM
Personally I don't think it's the sponsors on the strips that's the issue. It's the totally over the top in your face tv advertising. Every second advert is either Ray in your face or encouraging the young team to live the Ladbrokes Life. Bet in play right now and get these odds etc etc. That's got to be regulated better.

hibsbollah
07-09-2017, 06:54 AM
I like the Labour Party policy as I like their position on taxing TV deals to invest in grass roots. I don't like the proliferation of betting shops, I don't like the way the industry has leeched onto football and I think gambling addiction is massively underreported and is destroying lives. I'd like it if we looked elsewhere for sponsorship when the current agreement expires.

lyonhibs
07-09-2017, 06:57 AM
There's really no such thing as responsible smoking as any amount of it is harmful in some way. Gambling, while addictive in some cases, is totally harmless to the vast majority who enjoy it in moderation. Why should they suffer?

I'm willing to bet that alcohol ruins more lives than gambling.

I'm not entirely sure how responsible gamblers would actually suffer if there was no gambling ads in football?!

It's not like it'll be a gambling blackout and I'm sure a stroll down any high Street in the UK would still involve walking past 3 or 4 bookies

LaMotta
07-09-2017, 07:01 AM
If drink and gambling are banned as sponsors, where exactly is the necessary sponsorship money going to come from?

Lets face it, these two things are inextricably linked with football/sport. It seems a nonsense to prohibit them from advertising to sports fans.

Clearly some people do have issues with gambling, but surely the vast majority do not? Same with drinking. Do we really need to be mollycoddled in this way? I don't believe we do.

:agree:

Targeting football shirts is so short sighted.

Paddy Power have over 1.5 million likes on their facebook page. This is 50% more people than will watch a Man United Liverpool game on Sky Sports.

Footy Accumulators facebook page has over half a million likes, with daily links directly to various online bookies.

Millions of people follow gambling sites, Tipsters etc on Twitter where one click can have a bet right in front of you ready to be gambled.

Are Labour going to stop all this?

Bobby's Cinema
07-09-2017, 07:02 AM
A lot of people mentioning the adverts being the problem. I haven't seen social media mentioned? Bookies trying to be your pal tweeting about your team. These accounts must be controlled from somewhere because if you ever try searching for any of their tweets, you will find the same standard tweet has been sent by all other major betting accounts it's an embarrassment.

Nonsense Tweets such as:
Unbeaten season ✅
Treble ✅
Champions league ✅
Brendan Rodgers

IMO there should be rules in place where these accounts are forced to be completely impartial, though I suppose that would be banning freedom of speech so not sure what you'd do. The 'banter' from places like paddy p seems to attract people, this is as big a problem as adverts on tv or strips, maybe even bigger.

LaMotta
07-09-2017, 07:05 AM
Beat you by a minute :greengrin

Ozyhibby
07-09-2017, 07:56 AM
If drink and gambling are banned as sponsors, where exactly is the necessary sponsorship money going to come from?

Lets face it, these two things are inextricably linked with football/sport. It seems a nonsense to prohibit them from advertising to sports fans.

Clearly some people do have issues with gambling, but surely the vast majority do not? Same with drinking. Do we really need to be mollycoddled in this way? I don't believe we do.

So long as they are banned for every club then it doesn't matter. Either other industries will step in or clubs will pay players less.



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Keith_M
07-09-2017, 08:41 AM
Gambling, smoking and alcohol are all serious addictive problems in the UK and elsewhere. Quite often, people are addicted to more than one of those at the same time.

I've seen first hand the end results of the addictions and, believe me, it isn't pretty. People lose their jobs, houses, families. Children live in misery and often suffer serious phsycological damage because of the arguments and stress when daddy (and it usually is daddy) comes home with no wage packet or more new loans that they can possibly pay back, but not enough money to pay the telephone, Leccy or Gas bills and nothing left for food shopping.

I realise that some people have fun gambling and wouldn't call themselves addicts, just as I occasionally have a drink and I'm certainly no drunk, but I do have a problem with anything that legitimizes what is becoming yet another serious addiction, that of online gambling.

Everyone is entitled to their view but I'd rather not have players and fans of my club being walking billboards for these people.

GreenOnions
07-09-2017, 08:51 AM
:agree:

Targeting football shirts is so short sighted.

Paddy Power have over 1.5 million likes on their facebook page. This is 50% more people than will watch a Man United Liverpool game on Sky Sports.

Footy Accumulators facebook page has over half a million likes, with daily links directly to various online bookies.

Millions of people follow gambling sites, Tipsters etc on Twitter where one click can have a bet right in front of you ready to be gambled.

Are Labour going to stop all this?

Just like the tobacco companies' advertising was claimed to be "wholly about trying to get existing smokers to switch brands" line this is another argument of the classic variety. It is applied to many different debates but basically says that "the problem in front of us is so big there's no point in doing anything".

Well - I rarely agree with this view. In fact - when major change is required and many people are still to be persuaded then often a gradualist approach is best with change being achieved in an incremental way.

No-one in this debate is talking about stopping gambling or stopping drinking alcohol. However, we don't have to allow these things to be encouraged via advertising - particularly in sport where kids are such heavy consumers.

Is it not time that someone took a lead here rather than accepting everything as inevitable?

Ozyhibby
07-09-2017, 09:09 AM
When cigarette ads were banned, smoking levels dropped. When alcohol ads were banned, people drunk less.
I'm pretty sure the same pattern will follow with gambling.



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TonyStokeprano
07-09-2017, 09:10 AM
It's not a differing opinion, don't you get that.? You're utterly lost on this subject.


you sound so patronising its unreal, its clearly a difference of opinion scouse hibee has, one that i happen to agree with. as for the earlier poster sammy7nil saying you can lose your house and family through gambling but you can only drink so much, never heard so much ***** in my life, you can lose everything through drink, or any other addiction......

High-On-Hibs
07-09-2017, 09:25 AM
For those who say they like Marathon bet because "they're good with the club". Well of course they're good with the club. They're selling a service to tens of thousands of people, they're hardly going to show themselves in a bad light towards potential customers.

But consider this. Within those tens of thousands of fans are also your children. They may not be able to gamble now, but when they're old enough to do so, they'll certainly be well aware of all the gambling institutions that are available to them through years upon years of endless propaganda being shoved in their faces, giving them the impression that the suits who want to empty every penny they can out of them, are somehow a bunch of great guys.

By then, the mentality will be "oh well, everybody else is doing it, so there's no need for me to stop either".

Thegreenside
07-09-2017, 09:26 AM
does anyone go to have a bet when they normally wouldn't just because of marathon bet on the front of the hibs jersey?

High-On-Hibs
07-09-2017, 09:30 AM
does anyone go to have a bet when they normally wouldn't just because of marathon bet on the front of the hibs jersey?

The question is whether people are actually consciously aware of that connection or not. The art of advertising is to root itself into the subconcious of the viewers. The most problemed gamblers are the ones who say they don't have a problem at all, because they don't even know it.

Steve-O
07-09-2017, 09:30 AM
Just like the tobacco companies' advertising was claimed to be "wholly about trying to get existing smokers to switch brands" line this is another argument of the classic variety. It is applied to many different debates but basically says that "the problem in front of us is so big there's no point in doing anything".

Well - I rarely agree with this view. In fact - when major change is required and many people are still to be persuaded then often a gradualist approach is best with change being achieved in an incremental way.

No-one in this debate is talking about stopping gambling or stopping drinking alcohol. However, we don't have to allow these things to be encouraged via advertising - particularly in sport where kids are such heavy consumers.

Is it not time that someone took a lead here rather than accepting everything as inevitable?

Surely parents have to take a lead here? Explain what gambling is all about, what the pitfalls are, and that they can't do it until they are 18.

IMO kids are ridiculously protected nowadays. In reality, they're just the same as us, only younger!

Peevemor
07-09-2017, 09:38 AM
does anyone go to have a bet when they normally wouldn't just because of marathon bet on the front of the hibs jersey?

IIRC, Marathon Bet have offered exclusive incentives to Hibs supporters in the past. It doesn't take much to hook people of a certain disposition.

They have been an excellent sponsor so far so I've nothing against them - far from it. I do think though that there is far too much betting advertising and influence in British football - it's everywhere (and living abroad I don't see as much as those in the UK). I do find it all a bit unhealthy.

--------
07-09-2017, 09:40 AM
Gambling, smoking and alcohol are all serious addictive problems in the UK and elsewhere. Quite often, people are addicted to more than one of those at the same time.

I've seen first hand the end results of the addictions and, believe me, it isn't pretty. People lose their jobs, houses, families. Children live in misery and often suffer serious phsycological damage because of the arguments and stress when daddy (and it usually is daddy) comes home with no wage packet or more new loans that they can possibly pay back, but not enough money to pay the telephone, Leccy or Gas bills and nothing left for food shopping.

I realise that some people have fun gambling and wouldn't call themselves addicts, just as I occasionally have a drink and I'm certainly no drunk, but I do have a problem with anything that legitimizes what is becoming yet another serious addiction, that of online gambling.

Everyone is entitled to their view but I'd rather not have players and fans of my club being walking billboards for these people.

Yes. Plenty of it around, and all these addictions damage lives, each in its own way.

We can't watch a sports event on TV these days without R** W******* at you to "bet responsibly" on ***, or a couple of guys discussing how to maximise your winnings (they never lose) by going online with L*******s or B*****d or whoever.

Companies don't pay loadsa money for advertising that doesn't work. This is literally people spending money for nothing - most gamblers don't win (if they did, the betting companies would be out of business) - which means that most customers get nothing in return for their time and cash, and the betting companies hand large wodges to the advertisers who produce the crap we have to watch at half-time, or between overs, or between races .... As I say - at the sharp end, lots of money spent for nothing.

Like the old saying - the bookie goes home from the races in his Rolls-Royce; his customers get the bus, provided of course they still have change left for their bus fare.

Once upon a time it was the cigarette companies who were all over the TV screens. There was a ban - which has been gradually eroded over the years, thanks mainly, I believe, to motor sport (GP, NASCAR, Indycar, etc). Tobacco companies apparently now seek growth through "promotions that build brand equity through adult consumer experiences" (quote from an industry press-release, btw), though the "adult consumer experience" of a greatly increased likelihood of coughing my lungs up day by day in the form of black phelgm, chemo, radiation therapy and surgery, heart disease and death doesn't appeal to me personally.

Nor does losing my car, my house, my friends and my reputation 'betting responsibly on free-six-foive' with Fat Ray. Anyone else, feel free. But responsible government would seek to drastically limit people's exposure to the sort of high-pressure advertising we have just now on every communications medium.

High-On-Hibs
07-09-2017, 09:40 AM
Surely parents have to take a lead here? Explain what gambling is all about, what the pitfalls are, and that they can't do it until they are 18.

IMO kids are ridiculously protected nowadays. In reality, they're just the same as us, only younger!

Kids don't learn from what they're told to do. They learn from what their parents actually do themselves. No use telling the kids that gambling is bad, just before you're about to pop down to the bookies to pop a few accumulators on. It just makes them want to gamble as soon as possible, because the grown ups are doing it. Just like smoking and alcohol, they see bad habits of grown ups as something "cool" and something they want to try out themselves.

Peevemor
07-09-2017, 09:50 AM
Kids don't learn from what they're told to do. They learn from what their parents actually do themselves. No use telling the kids that gambling is bad, just before you're about to pop down to the bookies to pop a few accumulators on. It just makes them want to gamble as soon as possible, because the grown ups are doing it. Just like smoking and alcohol, they see bad habits of grown ups as something "cool" and something they want to try out themselves.

Some people may start gambling after seeing others in their family do it, but it mostly comes from doing what your mates do.

Up until my late 20s I'd almost never gambled (normally a couple of quid on whatever jockey was wearing the closest to a Hibs top in the Grand National). Then one night I went to the casino for the first time with a new crowd - friends of friends who became good mates. I went in with £30 on me and left an hour later with £150 - that's all it takes.

I became a regular and, apart from a couple of times when I was blootered, I didn't really take any sore ones - in fact I generally left my bank card at home and only took what I could afford (and expect) to lose.

I've only been in a casino (to gamble) once since I've been here (13 years), but arriving at the blackjack table I saw that everyone else was playing hundreds per hand. I wasn't in the same league and didn't feel at ease, so I didn't even bother.

emerald green
07-09-2017, 10:00 AM
So they were in the red in more ways than one.

:greengrin :aok:

High-On-Hibs
07-09-2017, 10:00 AM
Some people may start gambling after seeing others in their family do it, but it mostly comes from doing what your mates do.

Up until my late 20s I'd almost never gambled (normally a couple of quid on whatever jockey was wearing the closest to a Hibs top in the Grand National). Then one night I went to the casino for the first time with a new crowd - friends of friends who became good mates. I went in with £30 on me and left an hour later with £150 - that's all it takes.

I became a regular and, apart from a couple of times when I was blootered, I didn't really take any sore ones - in fact I generally left my bank card at home and only took what I could afford (and expect) to lose.

I've only been in a casino (to gamble) once since I've been here (13 years), but arriving at the blackjack table I saw that everyone else was playing hundreds per hand. I wasn't in the same league and didn't feel at ease, so I didn't even bother.

How do you suppose your mates started? The buck has to end somewhere.

Also, you grew up at a time when gambling advertisements were frowned upon and hugely regulated. Not like now, with ads telling people to put a bet on in between every sporting event.

People might not want to believe that ads have such a huge impact on the behaviour of society as a whole. But if it didn't, the companies wouldn't be spending hundreds of millions every year pushing it into peoples minds.

If things keep heading the way they are, gambling will eventually have a monopoly over everything. Almost every advert on the TV will be a gambling promotion, because they'll be able to offer the most money for the advertisement time slots. That's the damage that zero regulation will do.

Ozyhibby
07-09-2017, 10:06 AM
if the ads don't work, why would anyone care if they got banned?


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KWJ
07-09-2017, 10:41 AM
As someone who battles the gambling demons it's mad how rife it is in this country.

I've lived in Canada where to put on a bet person you need to do it at the post office and it was such a hassle it wasn't worth it. There were issues with using online bookies too, I could use my laptop but not my phone. Can't recall but perhaps I had to use a VPN.

The lack of advertising of it meant that I'd only put a bet on when it was my idea to which was pretty seldom really. There's so much added entertainment away from the game itself in North America that there's little need to have a flutter to make it more interesting.

In Australia I think online betting is growing but there's still limited options and to put a bet on in person requires visiting a TAB and getting pretty **** odds that differ depending on what state you are in. The one thing they do that would be a huge change here is that bookies are inside pubs. Didn't bet much in Australia but when I did it was at these things when others were too. NZ has some of these too but it's not as rife. Pokies are the gambling killer for them but it's kinda like smoking in that you have to go into a dark and dingey room to play them and generally feel bad about life!

USA has the issue of pharmaceutical advertising and I disagree with their outright banning of gambling in most states.

But I come home and think it's sickening the repetitive cycles of gambling commercials sandwiched by pay day loan adverts aimed at those on low incomes or the unemployed. How this has been allowed to grow so much in the past 10-15 years without somebody finally saying STOP is beyond me.

I no longer have live TV but these advertisements are still rammed down your throat as you go about your day be it on bus stops, billboards, taxis or any other means.

That said I don't have a problem with betting companies sponsoring football as somebody has to and they are clearly the highest bidders and it makes sense that it targets their demographic. Marathon Bet in particular have been a great sponsor. There is a dangerously increasing gambling problem in society though which is why the bookies are making such money and saturating the advertising market with more and more online bookies sprouting up every year. This is happening on the back of 1/3 children being born into poverty in this country. The two shouldn't be allowed to happen hand in hand and while I'm no Labour fan and their motives could be called into question if it starts the debate of Gambling advertising in this country then bring it on.

Okay that was a bitty ramble, apologies.

Renfrew_Hibby
07-09-2017, 11:08 AM
What I find sad is football fans not bothing with a match on the telly or even going if they don't have a bet on it.
"I need an interest" they say and "if I don't have a bet on then what's the point in watching it?"
The point is, I thought you were a football fan!

Thegreenside
07-09-2017, 11:15 AM
IIRC, Marathon Bet have offered exclusive incentives to Hibs supporters in the past. It doesn't take much to hook people of a certain disposition.

They have been an excellent sponsor so far so I've nothing against them - far from it. I do think though that there is far too much betting advertising and influence in British football - it's everywhere (and living abroad I don't see as much as those in the UK). I do find it all a bit unhealthy.

They 100% have. My point is the majority of people who take these offers up are more than likely to be having a bet anyway.

Should we stop Eden mill having their branding on the top also? Pretty sure they gave an offer to hibs fans at the start of the sponsorship

Renfrew_Hibby
07-09-2017, 11:21 AM
The French were very successful in banning alcohol ads from all pro sport.

The problem is football in this country is now totally dependent upon gambling firms money, only TV contracts are more important and even then these two industries have become intertwinde hence we have the SkyBet Championship!

The fear for me is football, and many pro sports, are now open to serious match fixing, especially from the far east as there is tens of millions wagered on a daily basis.
As for gambling in society, we have to reign in online firms, even the fun and cheerie bingo sites as house wife's and grannies are even becoming addicted.

High street bookies are fine as they are heavily regulated and staff have a duty of care which most adhear to, just like pubs. You're local bookies can be a valuable part of a local community just as a well run pub can be.

LaMotta
07-09-2017, 11:22 AM
Just like the tobacco companies' advertising was claimed to be "wholly about trying to get existing smokers to switch brands" line this is another argument of the classic variety. It is applied to many different debates but basically says that "the problem in front of us is so big there's no point in doing anything".

Well - I rarely agree with this view. In fact - when major change is required and many people are still to be persuaded then often a gradualist approach is best with change being achieved in an incremental way.

No-one in this debate is talking about stopping gambling or stopping drinking alcohol. However, we don't have to allow these things to be encouraged via advertising - particularly in sport where kids are such heavy consumers.

Is it not time that someone took a lead here rather than accepting everything as inevitable?

Ok, so why punish Football clubs first? Why not stop Facebook and Twitter from making money from gambling adverts?

Why not look at Horse Racing?

My point was not that nothing should be done...

GreenOnions
07-09-2017, 11:29 AM
Surely parents have to take a lead here? Explain what gambling is all about, what the pitfalls are, and that they can't do it until they are 18.

IMO kids are ridiculously protected nowadays. In reality, they're just the same as us, only younger!

You're right of course. All I would ask is that, if all parents did that, would we be able to scrap all restrictions on availability and promotion of products that can cause addiction/harm? Class A drugs, pornography, drinking, smoking, gambling etc?

If not - then are we not accepting that, whilst enabling the maximum level of personal freedom, some limits have to be placed on that freedom to do certain things and (where banning is inappropriate) to promote the use of certain things?

Some of those judgements could be ethically motivated whilst others might be evidence-based.

Is it not a role of society / organisations to play a part in this or is it all down solely to the individual?

GreenOnions
07-09-2017, 11:38 AM
Ok, so why punish Football clubs first? Why not stop Facebook and Twitter from making money from gambling adverts?

Why not look at Horse Racing?

My point was not that nothing should be done...

I'm not saying that the problem is not complex and embedded and many others will have a better idea than I do about where to start. However, we have to start somewhere.

I said in an earlier post that I would like to see all promotion of gambling and alcohol banned from all sport. I also suggested a ban during live broadcasts of sporting events (on channels showing those events).

If we do have to start at one particular point though would we not start with sports where there is the greatest involvement of children and young people?

jgl07
07-09-2017, 11:42 AM
How many Hibs fans had placed a bet with Marathon prior to them sponsoring Hibs? How many have an account with Marathon now?

I used to eat Snickers but I am now going back to Marathon bars.

Renfrew_Hibby
07-09-2017, 11:43 AM
Classic right v left argument here. The freedom to choose and live by your actions or have a society that offers help and support and limits choices.for some the first argument is what's wanted for others the second is what's required.

LaMotta
07-09-2017, 11:54 AM
I'm not saying that the problem is not complex and embedded and many others will have a better idea than I do about where to start. However, we have to start somewhere.

I said in an earlier post that I would like to see all promotion of gambling and alcohol banned from all sport. I also suggested a ban during live broadcasts of sporting events (on channels showing those events).

If we do have to start at one particular point though would we not start with sports where there is the greatest involvement of children and young people?


The Labour proposal is stupid though.

Under their proposal In Scotland, Celtic, The Rangers, and Hibs would not be able to have Dafa Bet, 32 Red and Marathon Bet ( 3 relative minnows in the UK gambling industry) on their shirts.

The Betfred and William Hill cups and the Ladbrokes SPFL would be fine though ( all major players in the UK Gambling sector).

Peevemor
07-09-2017, 12:11 PM
The French were very successful in banning alcohol ads from all pro sport.

The problem is football in this country is now totally dependent upon gambling firms money, only TV contracts are more important and even then these two industries have become intertwinde hence we have the SkyBet Championship!

The fear for me is football, and many pro sports, are now open to serious match fixing, especially from the far east as there is tens of millions wagered on a daily basis.
As for gambling in society, we have to reign in online firms, even the fun and cheerie bingo sites as house wife's and grannies are even becoming addicted.

High street bookies are fine as they are heavily regulated and staff have a duty of care which most adhear to, just like pubs. You're local bookies can be a valuable part of a local community just as a well run pub can be.The TV contracts are more important, but how much TV money comes from gambling advertising in the first place?

Lago
07-09-2017, 12:38 PM
Piece of nonsense.

heretoday
07-09-2017, 01:08 PM
I like a wee bet.

Sammy7nil
07-09-2017, 02:14 PM
you sound so patronising its unreal, its clearly a difference of opinion scouse hibee has, one that i happen to agree with. as for the earlier poster sammy7nil saying you can lose your house and family through gambling but you can only drink so much, never heard so much ***** in my life, you can lose everything through drink, or any other addiction......

I agree :greengrin

Sammy7nil
07-09-2017, 02:25 PM
What I find sad is football fans not bothing with a match on the telly or even going if they don't have a bet on it.
"I need an interest" they say and "if I don't have a bet on then what's the point in watching it?"
The point is, I thought you were a football fan!

The problem is most people I know are Hibs fans not really football fans and could not careless if they missed a game on the tv. However if they have tenner on FGS or Correct score they would watch the game.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
07-09-2017, 02:31 PM
I'm not saying that the problem is not complex and embedded and many others will have a better idea than I do about where to start. However, we have to start somewhere.

I said in an earlier post that I would like to see all promotion of gambling and alcohol banned from all sport. I also suggested a ban during live broadcasts of sporting events (on channels showing those events).

If we do have to start at one particular point though would we not start with sports where there is the greatest involvement of children and young people?

Why do we have to start somewhere though?

I doubt any gambling addicts are prompted to donit by advertising - if as many gamblers claim, it is an illness, advertising should make no difference other than differentiating between their bookie of choice.

People need to take some responsibility for themselves, and stop rushing to ban things they dont like or cant handle.

For most people, going to the fitba is inextricably linked with having a drink and putting on a coupon - its natural that they would heavily invest in sponsoring football.

CyberSauzee
07-09-2017, 02:41 PM
Banning advertising is pointless when the bookies can be seen in every high street across the UK.

I think the main point to be addressed is the FOBTs (fixed odds betting terminals) in bookies shops across the country.

IIRC each shop was limited to 3, down from 4 terminals a few years ago? Not sure on that, but the limit on these machines has never been decreased. You can do £200-£300 a minute on them.

They are the reason we've seen the rise in bookies' shops in high streets across the country, in places where there are already shops owned by the same firm a couple of hundred yards away.

Limiting the stakes or banning them outright would see hundreds of shops close but I would think go quite a bit to addressing problem gambling.

This is worth a read if you've got 20 minutes:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/31/big-gamble-dangerous-british-betting-shops

Hibernia&Alba
07-09-2017, 02:41 PM
Has advertising on a football shirt ever driven anyone to drink or gamble?

No, but Hibs on the pitch have many times.

lord bunberry
07-09-2017, 03:00 PM
What I find sad is football fans not bothing with a match on the telly or even going if they don't have a bet on it.
"I need an interest" they say and "if I don't have a bet on then what's the point in watching it?"
The point is, I thought you were a football fan!

I'm like that. I can watch a football match when I've not got a bet on it, but I enjoy it more when I have got a bet on it. As soon as you have a bet on a game you're no longer a neutral, which makes it more enjoyable for me.
Have you not seen the adverts? It matters more when there's money on it :greengrin.

GreenOnions
07-09-2017, 03:53 PM
does anyone go to have a bet when they normally wouldn't just because of marathon bet on the front of the hibs jersey?


No, but Hibs on the pitch have many times.

:greengrin

Killiehibbie
07-09-2017, 03:55 PM
The government should be looking to pass a law making the bookies take a decent bet at available odds from every punter before they ban anything to do with ads.

Sammy7nil
07-09-2017, 04:00 PM
The government should be looking to pass a law making the bookies take a decent bet at available odds from every punter before they ban anything to do with ads.

Are you Barney Curley :greengrin

Golden Bear
07-09-2017, 04:01 PM
I do have a wee punt via the betting facilities that are available at ER on matchday, I wonder if I'm in need of professional counselling to help me get over this terrible sin?

It's an awfy worry.

Killiehibbie
07-09-2017, 04:08 PM
Are you Barney Curley :greengrinThe way i and many others have been treated by them you would think we're all Barney.

lyonhibs
07-09-2017, 04:48 PM
Go and read studies on the impact of gambling advertising on adolescents in particular and its effects in them and tell me if you think someone can have an opinion on a subject like that.

In fact, maybe first - go and read when it's relevant to have an opinion on a subject.

I'm confused. Are you saying that because of some studies into the subject, it's no longer relevant/"allowed" to have an opinion on the question of gambling advertising in sport.

I tend to actually go towards your side of the fence here. I don't think naked promotion of gambling, and especially these FO terminals should be unrestricted in sport.

But just because a few studies happen to support that view with, presumably, some fairly extreme "worst case scenario" examples, it doesn't make contrary opinions "irrelevant"

Sheesh

WhileTheChief..
07-09-2017, 05:01 PM
Kinda forgot there was a Labour Party in Scotland. Guess this got them in the news for a day.

Tobias Funke
07-09-2017, 05:07 PM
The government should be looking to pass a law making the bookies take a decent bet at available odds from every punter before they ban anything to do with ads.

Agreed. The behaviour of bookmakers towards their customers is scandalous. Limiting stakes and closing accounts of those who dare to win more often that the bookies like for example. Also making people jump through hoops to withdraw funds and even refusing to pay out.

Bookmakers do not like winners as much as they'd like everyone to believe that.

Sammy7nil
07-09-2017, 05:13 PM
Kinda forgot there was a Labour Party in Scotland. Guess this got them in the news for a day.

I kinda forgot there was any relevant party in Scotland :rolleyes:

hibsbollah
07-09-2017, 05:18 PM
I doubt any gambling addicts are prompted to do it by advertising

You doubt wrongly. Its a fact, supported by incontrovertible evidence.

Killiehibbie
07-09-2017, 05:28 PM
Agreed. The behaviour of bookmakers towards their customers is scandalous. Limiting stakes and closing accounts of those who dare to win more often that the bookies like for example. Also making people jump through hoops to withdraw funds and even refusing to pay out.

Bookmakers do not like winners as much as they'd like everyone to believe that.
Do anything that does or even might affect their bottom line and you're not welcome. I've even been shut down for placing 6 losing bet with Stan James, not my fault they all halved in price.

High-On-Hibs
07-09-2017, 05:37 PM
Not sure how anybody can say that advertisements don't make a difference. You think they just spend all that money on advertisements for no reason? Really? :confused:

LaMotta
07-09-2017, 07:51 PM
Are you Barney Curley :greengrin

Now theres a man who knew how to beat the bookies!

Greenfly
07-09-2017, 10:10 PM
I support this totally. Of course it will impact on football but we don't have pitch side or programme ads now telling us that "Fit Fans Smoke Rocky Mounts" etc. as we did once upon a time. I have various old Hibs tops I wear with pride but don't and wouldn't wear one that promotes a bookie. It's maybe a bit less of a shocker than defacing the green with something like Wonga but it's madness to deny the horrific consequences that gambling has for some folk. I've got no problem with folk having the odd bet - good fun so long as you're fully in control of it but the sums that online bookies spend on football advertising are the self-evident proof that they consider it worthwhile in attracting customers. We could probably find some ethical gripe with most commercial sponsors if we dug deep enough but the ones that are directly responsible for helping some into untold misery are surely an exception. The gambling industry is a major part of that problem. I think the fact that such advertising on kids' shirts is already banned underlines the truth of the situation.

Eyrie
07-09-2017, 10:25 PM
Banning sponsorship on a football shirt or even of football competitions won't make any difference. There will still be plenty of adverts on the TV, social media promotions, internet websites and of course the bookmaker shops.

Any serious attempt to deal with the gambling problem requires the gambling industry to be more tightly regulated but I'm not sure how practical that would be given that an addict could still use an online site based outwith the UK.

Andy74
08-09-2017, 01:14 PM
Not sure how anybody can say that advertisements don't make a difference. You think they just spend all that money on advertisements for no reason? Really? :confused:

To buy product aye, to get addicted to it? That's personal responsibility.

Bristolhibby
08-09-2017, 03:31 PM
There's no way it would come into place. They would have to ban advertising too and the money pumped in through adverts is too much. Having a gambling sponsor doesn't make me bet with marathon bet unless I'm in the ground. Familiarity all the way. I'm not leaving bet 355 regardless of how decent outside the box is.

You do remember cigarette adverts?

Where there is a will, there's a way.

Personally I'd ban booze adverts before gambling. Many more lives ruined by alcohol both in long term and in the short term.

That said, I do like a good swally.

J

hibsbollah
08-09-2017, 04:20 PM
To buy product aye, to get addicted to it? That's personal responsibility.

:rolleyes:It never ceases to amaze me that people pretend scientific fact doesn't exist to protect their own prejudices. Addiction is an illness. You may as well say that cancer is down to personal responsibility.

Hibernia&Alba
08-09-2017, 04:28 PM
:rolleyes:It never ceases to amaze me that people pretend scientific fact doesn't exist to protect their own prejudices. Addiction is an illness. You may as well say that cancer is down to personal responsibility.

This is true. Clinical studies have demonstrated that some people have addictive personalities, in the same way some have psychopathic or narcissistic personality disorders. We don't blame a psychopath for not having a conscience, as it's meaningless. He/she doesn't choose not have a conscience; it's how they are. Evidence suggests that some people have a proclivity towards addictions, which can be very difficult to manage. It isn't a question of being weak or irresponsible.

Andy74
08-09-2017, 04:37 PM
:rolleyes:It never ceases to amaze me that people pretend scientific fact doesn't exist to protect their own prejudices. Addiction is an illness. You may as well say that cancer is down to personal responsibility.

If addiction is an illness, which I can happily accept it is, then advertising it makes no odds - that person I assume will become addicted to something that is not meant for that purpose.

Banning the advertising of things because a small percentage of people don't use the product responsibly, for whatever reason, is not the answer.

Some cancer does come down to personal responsibility doesn't it? Lung cancer or throat cancer caused by smoking for example?

hibsbollah
09-09-2017, 08:51 AM
Banning the advertising of things because a small percentage of people don't use the product responsibly, for whatever reason, is not the answer.



Did you work for British Imperial Tobacco in the 1950s by any chance? :faf:

Andy74
09-09-2017, 11:35 AM
Did you work for British Imperial Tobacco in the 1950s by any chance? :faf:

Is there some up to date evidence that lack of advertising can prevent or cure what I'm told is an illness?

Does that person just not fall foul of something else?

hibsbollah
09-09-2017, 11:42 AM
Is there some up to date evidence that lack of advertising can prevent or cure what I'm told is an illness?

Does that person just not fall foul of something else?

There's plenty of informative stuff online if you want to educate yourself about addictive personality. As there is about the effects of advertising.

But I'm guessing by saying 'I'm told' it's an illness, you clearly believe it isn't one.

Andy74
09-09-2017, 12:40 PM
There's plenty of informative stuff online if you want to educate yourself about addictive personality. As there is about the effects of advertising.

But I'm guessing by saying 'I'm told' it's an illness, you clearly believe it isn't one.

I'm sure it is and so I'm equally sure advertising is way down the list of things that will have any impact on it.

Lago
09-09-2017, 01:50 PM
This is true. Clinical studies have demonstrated that some people have addictive personalities, in the same way some have psychopathic or narcissistic personality disorders. We don't blame a psychopath for not having a conscience, as it's meaningless. He/she doesn't choose not have a conscience; it's how they are. Evidence suggests that some people have a proclivity towards addictions, which can be very difficult to manage. It isn't a question of being weak or irresponsible.
And seeing a betting company name on a football jersey drives them into a bookies? I think we should be more concerned with the barrage of advertising for online betting, now I will agree its a problem.

hibsbollah
09-09-2017, 02:06 PM
I'm sure it is and so I'm equally sure advertising is way down the list of things that will have any impact on it.

We'll if you're that sure, you won't need to waste your time reading all the evidence that will show you that you're wrong :aok:

Andy74
09-09-2017, 04:09 PM
We'll if you're that sure, you won't need to waste your time reading all the evidence that will show you that you're wrong :aok:

I suppose you could start by linking one article that shows advertising is responsible for addiction. Not sales or consumption but addiction, and whether the lack of advertising would eliminate it or just move the issue on.

Would be interested in seeing this.

hibsbollah
09-09-2017, 05:57 PM
I suppose you could start by linking one article that shows advertising is responsible for addiction. Not sales or consumption but addiction, and whether the lack of advertising would eliminate it or just move the issue on.

Would be interested in seeing this.

I know you were pedantic Andy, I didn't realise you were plain daft as well. Nobody claims advertising is responsible for addiction.