PDA

View Full Version : Show of Hands: Move on?



Jack Hackett
04-09-2017, 05:51 PM
On the question of retrospective punishment for the club formerly known as Rangers, we were informed by a fan rep, that the issue had been discussed by the board and a statement would be forthcoming... that was some considerable time ago. This has led to much discussion on the Generic Rangers/Sevco thread.

Opinions seem to be polarised between 'Make them pay' and 'What's the point, let's move on'. I don't really want to use this as a discussion of the issues. I would just like to know... and possibly let the board know, where we stand. This isn't about what the punishment should be, but should we 'Move on'

Thecat23
04-09-2017, 05:57 PM
No never let this go. It's that attitude that will allow them to do it again or not give a flying **** about who they screwed.

Makes me sick my club done nothing to persue this along with the rest.

HFCdeb
04-09-2017, 06:04 PM
Can't vote on my mobile but the answer, from my point of view, is "no". Strip the titles.

Hibbyradge
04-09-2017, 06:05 PM
🤣

I wonder which way a poll of active online Hibs supporters will go on this . . . :hmmm:

High-On-Hibs
04-09-2017, 06:07 PM
Different club. They want a clean slate with the authorities so should therefore accept a clean slate in their trophy cabinet. They can't be the same club, but not the same club when it suits.

Jack Hackett
04-09-2017, 06:10 PM
🤣

I wonder which way a poll of active online Hibs supporters will go on this . . . :hmmm:

:angelic:

I will point out though, that it is the only yardstick available to us... unless you're volunteering to run a poll at the next home game? :greengrin

Chorley Hibee
04-09-2017, 06:11 PM
No never let this go. It's that attitude that will allow them to do it again or not give a flying **** about who they screwed.

Makes me sick my club done nothing to persue this along with the rest.

Exactly how I feel too.

Sir David Gray
04-09-2017, 06:13 PM
Can't vote on my mobile but the answer, from my point of view, is "no". Strip the titles.

You can, you just can't vote in mobile mode. I've just changed my phone to full settings and voted.

As for my opinion, I feel it's now a largely pointless discussion but I feel that if they still want to be considered to be the same club, they should accept the punishments for the wrongs that went on pre-liquidation.

It won't happen though.

HFCdeb
04-09-2017, 06:48 PM
You can, you just can't vote in mobile mode. I've just changed my phone to full settings and voted.

As for my opinion, I feel it's now a largely pointless discussion but I feel that if they still want to be considered to be the same club, they should accept the punishments for the wrongs that went on pre-liquidation.

It won't happen though.

Thanks for the tip :)

Eyrie
04-09-2017, 07:25 PM
I've never really expected that the rules would be enforced regarding players being improperly registered but moving on would be tantamount to accepting that the rules don't matter or Huns RIP didn't do anything wrong. The rules do matter (ask any small club who didn't get a second signature) and Huns RIP did breach the rules by not declaring the side letters about the EBTs.

So on this show of hands I'm raising a finger to the suggestion.

southern hibby
04-09-2017, 07:28 PM
Can't vote with my phone, but it's a definite no from me.

If we can't stand up for fair sport then it's then not worth coming to watch as its fixed.


GGTTH

hibsbollah
04-09-2017, 07:29 PM
It's crazy we should even be having the conversation.

No. Anything else isn't justice.

JeMeSouviens
04-09-2017, 07:30 PM
Ahem ...

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?322720-What-should-happen-to-honours-won-by-Rangers-in-the-EBT-years

Jack Hackett
04-09-2017, 07:40 PM
Ahem ...

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?322720-What-should-happen-to-honours-won-by-Rangers-in-the-EBT-years

:embarrass

Forgive me... I'm old. I voted in that as well. Je ne me souviens pas :greengrin

Roxyhibee
04-09-2017, 07:43 PM
No. Never. Not those deluded hoards across the bleak colourless side of Edinburgh either.

JeMeSouviens
04-09-2017, 07:43 PM
:embarrass

Forgive me... I'm old. I voted in that as well. Je ne me souviens pas :greengrin

De rien, I voted in this one too. :wink:

Jack
04-09-2017, 08:11 PM
Unless it's addressed properly there will always be the stench of corruption.

neil7908
04-09-2017, 08:45 PM
Interesting there has been 11 votes for move on but no one commenting from that side. I'm definitely a 'make them pay' but I'd be keen to hear from any Hibbies who thought differently.

I think if the new Rangers had shown even an ounce contrition or regret I might think differently but the fact is they have learnt nothing and the new owners are actively trying to whip up the less savoury elements of the Rangers support. Hard to believe but they actually seem like a worse club than before!

Jack
04-09-2017, 08:53 PM
Interesting there has been 11 votes for move on but no one commenting from that side. I'm definitely a 'make them pay' but I'd be keen to hear from any Hibbies who thought differently.

I think if the new Rangers had shown even an ounce contrition or regret I might think differently but the fact is they have learnt nothing and the new owners are actively trying to whip up the less savoury elements of the Rangers support. Hard to believe but they actually seem like a worse club than before!

It's not about making them pay, it's about applying the rules without fear or favour.

jacomo
04-09-2017, 08:59 PM
I thought we had moved on...

But the Zombies rose from the dead. We need to do better. Hoping that stripping titles will make them so angry they self-combust.

Tornadoes70
04-09-2017, 09:11 PM
Stripping Oldco Rangers of the titles is without doubt the correct action to take.

HIGHLANDLEITHER
04-09-2017, 09:12 PM
On the question of retrospective punishment for the club formerly known as Rangers, we were informed by a fan rep, that the issue had been discussed by the board and a statement would be forthcoming... that was some considerable time ago. This has led to much discussion on the Generic Rangers/Sevco thread.

Opinions seem to be polarised between 'Make them pay' and 'What's the point, let's move on'. I don't really want to use this as a discussion of the issues. I would just like to know... and possibly let the board know, where we stand. This isn't about what the punishment should be, but should we 'Move on'
No, look at cycling and the Olympics, what is the point of having rules if cheating is condoned. It's not just looking back that counts,it's sending out a message for the future.

Greenfly
04-09-2017, 09:43 PM
Interesting there has been 11 votes for move on but no one commenting from that side. I'm definitely a 'make them pay' but I'd be keen to hear from any Hibbies who thought differently.

I think if the new Rangers had shown even an ounce contrition or regret I might think differently but the fact is they have learnt nothing and the new owners are actively trying to whip up the less savoury elements of the Rangers support. Hard to believe but they actually seem like a worse club than before!

If they would offer a fulsome and genuine apology I'd be willing to move on - one that confessed and apologised to everyone else in Scottish football as well as all the companies they ripped off - preferably using the word "cheating" somewhere. But they never will so we should never forget what they did and it's only polite to remind them every so often. I still can't fully fathom how they got away with keeping Ibrox and Murray Park - nae justice there.

Bostonhibby
04-09-2017, 09:50 PM
Stripping Oldco Rangers of the titles is without doubt the correct action to take.

I would settle for a wee asterisk against each explaining they are voided and the explanation being that the now defunct Glasgow rangers gained them by what is now recognised by, amongst others, their owner at the time as being won with players they could not otherwise have afforded if they hadn't used EBT's and side letters that were concealed.

sixtwo
04-09-2017, 09:57 PM
Cannot vote from my phone but I am firmly against 'letting this go'


The old club cheated. There should be repercussions. Title stripping seems the only option.

Greenfly
04-09-2017, 10:00 PM
I would settle for a wee asterisk against each explaining they are voided and the explanation being that the now defunct Glasgow rangers gained them by what is now recognised by, amongst others, their owner at the time as being won with players they could not otherwise have afforded if they hadn't used EBT's and side letters that were concealed.


ie. They cheated!

Bostonhibby
04-09-2017, 10:07 PM
ie. They cheated!

You could certainly engrave that onto the trophies, but a wee bit more detail in the record books would be helpful:wink:

Greenfly
04-09-2017, 10:16 PM
You could certainly engrave that onto the trophies, but a wee bit more detail in the record books would be helpful:wink:



They should also be made to change their colours from blue to sackcloth and be forced to wear the word "cheat" emblazoned across their shirts for one season. That would be a small price to pay for what they got away with.

Bostonhibby
04-09-2017, 10:20 PM
They should also be made to change their colours from blue to sackcloth and be forced to wear the word "cheat" emblazoned across their shirts for one season. That would be a small price to pay for what they got away with.

Or replace their wee self created stars above the shirt badge that absolutely no official bodies recognise with asterisks per the above?

Greenfly
04-09-2017, 10:26 PM
Or replace their wee self created stars above the shirt badge that absolutely no official bodies recognise with asterisks per the above?



This is sounding great ... can we redesign their 2nd strip as well?

660
04-09-2017, 10:41 PM
Interesting there has been 11 votes for move on but no one commenting from that side. I'm definitely a 'make them pay' but I'd be keen to hear from any Hibbies who thought differently.

I think if the new Rangers had shown even an ounce contrition or regret I might think differently but the fact is they have learnt nothing and the new owners are actively trying to whip up the less savoury elements of the Rangers support. Hard to believe but they actually seem like a worse club than before!

The only thing I’ll say is it’s bizarre to single out Rangers for financial misconduct when several other clubs have done effectively the same thing. I find it embarrassing that Rangers are the target as opposed to the concept of financial doping. If sporting integrity is the aim then Rangers are entitled to say “ What about Motherwell Dundee or Hearts”? It comes across as an incredibly incoherent witch hunt as opposed to a legitimate desire for sporting integrity.

The whole thing strikes me as misguided and naive. I’d welcome an nvestigation into the effect of illegitimate finance on Scottish football and the honours won in that period. To focus on Rangers misses the point. I didn’t vote in the poll.

Greenfly
04-09-2017, 10:55 PM
The only thing I’ll say is it’s bizarre to single out Rangers for financial misconduct when several other clubs have done effectively the same thing. I find it embarrassing that Rangers are the target as opposed to the concept of financial doping. If sporting integrity is the aim then Rangers are entitled to say “ What about Motherwell Dundee or Hearts”? It comes across as an incredibly incoherent witch hunt as opposed to a legitimate desire for sporting integrity.

The whole thing strikes me as misguided and naive. I’d welcome an nvestigation into the effect of illegitimate finance on Scottish football and the honours won in that period. To focus on Rangers misses the point. I didn’t vote in the poll.

None of these clubs were liquidated. Rangers were. Whilst the others went into administration and exited from it with unpaid debts, Rangers simply ceased to exist. The new club that bears their name, most of the assets and the same sad bilious traditional leanings as Rangers claim no liabilities because they are new yet they still want to claim ownership of trophies won by their cheating predecessor. I don't think focussing on them misses the point at all ... it is the point.

Haymaker
04-09-2017, 11:44 PM
Strip the titles.

In fact the FF should have a huge banner for every game.

Those ****s should never get away with this.

CyberSauzee
05-09-2017, 12:06 AM
#1 For the club in liquidation known as Rangers (International) Football Cub = they are almost out existence along with their history.

#2 Tax evasion as opposed to tax avoidance; but more importantly, players not properly registered due to non disclosure of all severance; under the rules of the old league that means points deductions in the games these players played in = titles stripped. But why bother stripping them from a liquidated club? See #1 above. If the current club wants to avoid this see #3 below.

Nothing complicated in this at all.

And

#3 If the current incarnation of the team playing at Ibrox want to retain their titles then send them the tax bill for their liquidated club. Can't be giving those titles out without paying your dues to HMRC. If in doubt, see #2 above.

HoboHarry
05-09-2017, 01:41 AM
Should never be forgotten until the rules have been applied and they have been stripped of their titles. Cheating bunch of b*****ds should be shown up for the arrogant ar*****es that they are......

The Baldmans Comb
05-09-2017, 04:06 AM
The only thing I’ll say is it’s bizarre to single out Rangers for financial misconduct when several other clubs have done effectively the same thing. I find it embarrassing that Rangers are the target as opposed to the concept of financial doping. If sporting integrity is the aim then Rangers are entitled to say “ What about Motherwell Dundee or Hearts”? It comes across as an incredibly incoherent witch hunt as opposed to a legitimate desire for sporting integrity.

The whole thing strikes me as misguided and naive. I’d welcome an nvestigation into the effect of illegitimate finance on Scottish football and the honours won in that period. To focus on Rangers misses the point. I didn’t vote in the poll.

The only thing that's "bizarre" is that you haven't understood a word of the last 5 years.

Complete liquidation of the old club and then being found 100% guilty in the highest court in the land of £100m plus of tax evasion as well as being found guilty of lying to the SFA and wilfully failing to disclose the side letters meaning players weren't properly registered is utterly different to an administrative restructuring of an ailing company.

Curried
05-09-2017, 05:19 AM
Never let this rest until the SFA/SPFL grow a pair and do what's right for Scottish Football (i.e. strip the titles from the oldco, and publicly admit that the newco playing out of Ibrox only has a five-year history).

Keith_M
05-09-2017, 07:35 AM
I ticked the wrong choice...



:embarrass

Slavers
05-09-2017, 07:40 AM
No justice no move on!!

Sean1875
05-09-2017, 08:14 AM
Or replace their wee self created stars above the shirt badge that absolutely no official bodies recognise with asterisks per the above?

On this topic and for all their "we are the same club" chat, was there ever an explanation as to why when The Rangers were formed in 2012, their badge didn't have any stars above it initially despite 'being the same club'? :dunno:

Also, **** moving on - justice needs done.

snooky
05-09-2017, 08:17 AM
My view is that the Rangers cheating thing is only part of the problem. The Scottish game is rotten at the core and has been for a long time. There are two elephants in the room.

Is It On....
05-09-2017, 09:36 AM
If you ignore the lessons of past, you can't improve the future. Secret agreements, back room deals, systematic policy to not correctly register players. In addition, the Scottish authorities have consistently authorised the take-over of clubs by owners who had less than exemplary credentials. The stewardship of our game is a mess and needs to changed - it can not, in my opinion be fixed, as it's rotten to the core. Dealing with the Rangers/Sevco issue should be just the start.

Keith_M
05-09-2017, 10:18 AM
If you ignore the lessons of past, you can't improve the future. Secret agreements, back room deals, systematic policy to not correctly register players. In addition, the Scottish authorities have consistently authorised the take-over of clubs by owners who had less than exemplary credentials. The stewardship of our game is a mess and needs to changed - it can not, in my opinion bring fixed, as it's rotten to the core. The dealing with the Rangers/Sevco issue should be just the start.


The quality of footballers produced in Scotland is at an all-time low.

Related to this issue, the Scotland international team has not qualified for a major competition for nearly two decades (and probably will reach that landmark by next year)

Our two largest clubs are divided by sectarian bigotry rooted in the past conflicts of another country, which is glossed over by the football authorities, the media and the clubs themselves.

We have a financial deficit in the TV money that means we can't compete financially with fourth tier English clubs, or clubs from other countries that are of a similar size, when it comes to signing players.

-----------

Those are serious problems that need to be addresed by the football authorites... but pandering to, and appeasing, the ugly sisters at every turn seems to be their main priority.

High-On-Hibs
05-09-2017, 10:56 AM
The only thing that's "bizarre" is that you haven't understood a word of the last 5 years.

Complete liquidation of the old club and then being found 100% guilty in the highest court in the land of £100m plus of tax evasion as well as being found guilty of lying to the SFA and wilfully failing to disclose the side letters meaning players weren't properly registered is utterly different to an administrative restructuring of an ailing company.

This. There is absolutely no comparison to this situation and to that of other clubs who have found themselves in finanically difficulties. I can only assume that those who think we should just "move on", don't really understand the situation at all.

NAE NOOKIE
05-09-2017, 10:59 AM
Its pretty simple to me.

If The Rangers 2012 want to lay claim to all the titles and cups won by Rangers 1872 then they must also accept responsibility that Rangers 1872 had a period where the club cheated in order to put teams onto the park that were beyond their means ..... The day they do that and accept stuff won during that period should be struck from their records and Scottish football's records is the day I will accept that The Rangers 2012 are entitled to say they were the club who won the titles and trophies outwith that period of Rangers 1872's existence.

At the end of the day this shouldn't be a discussion the SFA / SPFL are having with The Rangers ..... All that should happen is a joint statement from the governing bodies stating that:

'We the SFA / SPFL accept that The Rangers FC 2012 are in the fullest sense of the term the same club as Rangers FC 1872 and are fully entitled to lay claim to any domestic honours won by Rangers 1872.
In recognition of this fact and as a consequence of it The Rangers FC 2012 must also accept that they are liable for any punishment we see fit to impose for the period the club broke the rules of fair and open competition by illegally paying players and the fact that this lead to their players not being correctly registered to play in SFA / SPFL competitions.
In view of this fact The Rangers FC 2012 are, as of the date of this statement, stripped of any domestic league titles, league cups or Scottish cups won by the club's first team during the period xx/xx/xx to xx/xx/xx and are ordered to remove any reference to these honours from the clubs literature, media and merchandise.

'It should be noted that should The Rangers FC 2012 refuse to accept this judgment we 'the SFA and SPFL' will withdraw recognition of Rangers FC 1872 and The Rangers 1872 as being the same entity and should The Rangers FC 2012 continue to lay claim to ANY domestic honours won 'fairly or unfairly' by Rangers 1872 in official club literature or other media, including representations alluding to same on the clubs strips, the club ( The Rangers 2012 ) will be immediately excluded from entitlement to participate in competitions run under the auspices of the Scottish football association or the Scottish professional football league, until such time as all references to honours won by Rangers 1872 'fairly or unfairly' are removed from all club literature or other media and reference to same is removed from the clubs strips'

There you go, how easy was that :greengrin

bingo70
05-09-2017, 11:08 AM
I hate rangers more than most but I can't say I care what happens to titles they cheated to win years ago. Whether rangers have won 50 odd titles or 0 they'll still be a vile bigoted club full of hatred and standing for pretty much everything Im against, what any court or governing body says or does won't have any influence on how I feel about them.

I'd rather the governing body concentrated on the future of our game instead of getting tied up in time consuming and no doubt expensive legal battles.

Tomsk
05-09-2017, 11:09 AM
The only thing I’ll say is it’s bizarre to single out Rangers for financial misconduct when several other clubs have done effectively the same thing. I find it embarrassing that Rangers are the target as opposed to the concept of financial doping. If sporting integrity is the aim then Rangers are entitled to say “ What about Motherwell Dundee or Hearts”? It comes across as an incredibly incoherent witch hunt as opposed to a legitimate desire for sporting integrity.

The whole thing strikes me as misguided and naive. I’d welcome an nvestigation into the effect of illegitimate finance on Scottish football and the honours won in that period. To focus on Rangers misses the point. I didn’t vote in the poll.

This what happens when you only watch the first episode of a multi-series on catch-up and try to sound like you know what everyone else, who have seen the entire seven seasons, is talking about.

snedzuk
05-09-2017, 11:24 AM
No never let this go. It's that attitude that will allow them to do it again or not give a flying **** about who they screwed.

Makes me sick my club done nothing to persue this along with the rest.

This x 100 - if nothing happens here we may as well pack up and go home.

edinburghhibee
05-09-2017, 01:43 PM
They should get the titles stripped during those years of cheating. Sorry can't vote on mobile.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

WhileTheChief..
05-09-2017, 01:48 PM
This what happens when you only watch the first episode of a multi-series on catch-up and try to sound like you know what everyone else, who have seen the entire seven seasons, is talking about.

He's right though.

If it was any other club no one would give a damn.

JimBHibees
05-09-2017, 01:58 PM
He's right though.

If it was any other club no one would give a damn.

If it was any other club they wouldnt get away with it.

Do you seriously imagine that Hibs would have been treated the same?

Andy74
05-09-2017, 02:27 PM
If it was any other club they wouldnt get away with it.

Do you seriously imagine that Hibs would have been treated the same?

If I am following correctly then yes, we would. The rules were so bad they didn't cover this which is why they've been punished to the limit allowed.

Correct now that focus should be on how this shouldn't be able to happen again.

Thecat23
05-09-2017, 02:49 PM
If I am following correctly then yes, we would. The rules were so bad they didn't cover this which is why they've been punished to the limit allowed.

Correct now that focus should be on how this shouldn't be able to happen again.

The focus should be to keep pushing for them to be stripped of titles. As well as making sure it never happens again. To just ignore what's going on because the rules back then were a shambles makes us cowards.

Jack Hackett
05-09-2017, 03:01 PM
If I am following correctly then yes, we would. The rules were so bad they didn't cover this which is why they've been punished to the limit allowed.

Correct now that focus should be on how this shouldn't be able to happen again.

The rules for punishing improperly registered players were in place at the time. They were not imposed as oldco lied.

JeMeSouviens
05-09-2017, 03:19 PM
The only thing I’ll say is it’s bizarre to single out Rangers for financial misconduct when several other clubs have done effectively the same thing. I find it embarrassing that Rangers are the target as opposed to the concept of financial doping. If sporting integrity is the aim then Rangers are entitled to say “ What about Motherwell Dundee or Hearts”? It comes across as an incredibly incoherent witch hunt as opposed to a legitimate desire for sporting integrity.

The whole thing strikes me as misguided and naive. I’d welcome an nvestigation into the effect of illegitimate finance on Scottish football and the honours won in that period. To focus on Rangers misses the point. I didn’t vote in the poll.

This is not about straightforward financial doping. The Huns deliberately concealed an immoral aggressive tax avoidance scheme which has now been found to have been illegal. Totally different to the straightforward borrow too much and ditch the debt through insolvency of the others*. They cheated, they got caught, the titles they won should be declared null and void. Simples.


* probably Hearts were up to their necks in something nefarious but afaik, there's no proof.

Ozyhibby
05-09-2017, 03:23 PM
I hate rangers more than most but I can't say I care what happens to titles they cheated to win years ago. Whether rangers have won 50 odd titles or 0 they'll still be a vile bigoted club full of hatred and standing for pretty much everything Im against, what any court or governing body says or does won't have any influence on how I feel about them.

I'd rather the governing body concentrated on the future of our game instead of getting tied up in time consuming and no doubt expensive legal battles.

The governing body is so bad at running the game in Scotland that the only way forward is to have the clear out that would result from a full transparent investigation.
There is no area of the SFA's responsibilities that they can actually say they are doing a good job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JeMeSouviens
05-09-2017, 03:30 PM
If I am following correctly then yes, we would. The rules were so bad they didn't cover this which is why they've been punished to the limit allowed.

Correct now that focus should be on how this shouldn't be able to happen again.

The LNS verdict:

http://www.sportsintegrityinitiative.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/CommissiondecisionRangers.pdf

para 105 says the Huns tax arrangements were ok based on the (now overturned and appeal against that overturn having been dismissed) first tier tax tribunal ruling. That leads into para 106 saying:

"[106] We therefore proceed on the basis that the breach of the rules relating to disclosure did
not give rise to any sporting advantage, direct or indirect. We do not therefore propose to
consider those sanctions which are of a sporting nature. "

He then proceeds to find them guilty but only imposes a fine.

So, if the "did not give rise to any sporting advantage" guff has been comprehensively been shown by no less than the Supreme Court to be bollocks, then surely it's a no-brainer to revisit this and apply the sanctions "of a sporting nature" that bloody well should have been imposed in the first place?

The SFA and SPFL at every turn have attempted to do everything possible to protect the "Rangers" brand because their rigidly inflexible view of the financial model of Scottish football is that it is entirely based on having an "Old Firm" and everything that can be done to resurrect and protect that branding must be done. That's why we have the utter farce of everyone pretending that the rules as they always existed for Third Lanark, Airdrie and Gretna suddenly no longer apply and we are expected to believe in fairy stories about company/club separation. Except, of course, when "Rangers" aren't the subject of the discussion and normality returns and everyone talks about clubs and companies interchangeably because they are in fact THE ****** SAME THING!!!! :rolleyes:

The only time our "authorities" don't get away with *******ising their own rules for short term financial consideration is when the fans take a stand and say enough is enough, as per the New Huns going to Div 3.

This is the same old, same old, either we make a stand or blatant cheating corruption is not only allowed to stand but is hailed as a triumph over the rest of Scottish football.

AndyM_1875
05-09-2017, 03:37 PM
This is not about straightforward financial doping. The Huns deliberately concealed an immoral aggressive tax avoidance scheme which has now been found to have been illegal. Totally different to the straightforward borrow too much and ditch the debt through insolvency of the others*. They cheated, they got caught, the titles they won should be declared null and void. Simples.


* probably Hearts were up to their necks in something nefarious but afaik, there's no proof.

No proof? Them crashing into Administration and a list of creditors as long as your arm is the proof. Plus a 1.5m sum owed to the tax man for a player fiddle they fessed up to that was also never paid off. The behaviour at Hearts was rotten and corrupt to the core.

They signed players and played teams they couldn't pay. They burned they way through 50m plus of toxic debt they had no intention of ever paying back. They were an absolute basket case of a football club who would never win any leagues but they certainly won cups and qualified for European football with teams full of players they couldn't afford. And their idiot, fanbase of complete jackasses gave it large over us when we were getting our house in order and paying off our debts by playing kids and horror shows like Murdock/Edge et al. And finally to top it off they sell this sob story to the Scottish Media which gobbles it up and reiterates it through tear stained pieces in the media about the "wonderful rebirth at Tynecastle". Scuse me while I boak.

I get why people are angry at Rangers and that's totally fine and I support that. But if you expect me to forget what went on the length of a 22 bus ride away from Leith, forget it.

Thecat23
05-09-2017, 03:45 PM
The governing body is so bad at running the game in Scotland that the only way forward is to have the clear out that would result from a full transparent investigation.
There is no area of the SFA's responsibilities that they can actually say they are doing a good job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bang on, if you are to improve the future then you need to learn from the past. Brushing it under the carpet isn't fixing anything. The guys running our game are the same idiots who were in charge when Rangers died. Get these ****ing clowns out in fact clean out the SFA altogether. Maybe bring in the guys from the Wiggles they would do a better job.

Makes me laugh when I read that folk actually think our game will improve under these clowns.

JeMeSouviens
05-09-2017, 03:45 PM
No proof? Them crashing into Administration and a list of creditors as long as your arm is the proof. Plus a 1.5m sum owed to the tax man for a player fiddle they fessed up to that was also never paid off. The behaviour at Hearts was rotten and corrupt to the core.

They signed players and played teams they couldn't pay. They burned they way through 50m plus of toxic debt they had no intention of ever paying back. They were an absolute basket case of a football club who would never win any leagues but they certainly won cups and qualified for European football with teams full of players they couldn't afford. And their idiot, fanbase of complete jackasses gave it large over us when we were getting our house in order and paying off our debts by playing kids and horror shows like Murdock/Edge et al. And finally to top it off they sell this sob story to the Scottish Media which gobbles it up and reiterates it through tear stained pieces in the media about the "wonderful rebirth at Tynecastle". Scuse me while I boak.

I get why people are angry at Rangers and that's totally fine and I support that. But if you expect me to forget what went on the length of a 22 bus ride away from Leith, forget it.

I totally agree but while there is plenty of smoke, unless you can find actual documentary evidence of the fire and convince Scottish football authorities to take their head out of their arse and do something about it, forgetting about it is pretty much all you can do.

AndyM_1875
05-09-2017, 03:58 PM
I totally agree but while there is plenty of smoke, unless you can find actual documentary evidence of the fire and convince Scottish football authorities to take their head out of their arse and do something about it, forgetting about it is pretty much all you can do.

As far as I'm concerned the evidence of the fire is the certificate of HMFC being in Administration and a creditor list that dwarfed Rangers one and that's enough to find them guilty.So no, I won't forget.

But I have no faith in the Scottish football authorities to successfully order a pizza never mind sort the game out. Nothing will happen with Rangers and there will be no deep look into the game to keep restraints on idiots running Hearts or Dundee into the wall and allowing a pantomime like Gretna happening again. It'll be as shambolic and favouring of the old firm (whatever that is these days) as it's always been.

Robinho08
05-09-2017, 04:34 PM
Absolutely not, they're a new entity and never let them forget that!

Tomsk
05-09-2017, 05:13 PM
He's right though.

If it was any other club no one would give a damn.

With respect, he is not right. He makes the argument that Rangers are guilty only of financial mismanagement, like all Rangers did was a bit of overspending. If only.

In reality, over a sustained period of time they did indeed overspend. They also indulged in a tax evasion scheme, which in order to hide from the authorities they improperly registered players and officials in their employ. These actions gave them an unfair sporting advantage, brought the game into disrepute and led to a crisis in Scottish football. All of this has been proved in various court proceedings and investigations.

To make matters worse, far worse in my opinion, the SFA, the SPL, and now the SPFL, colluded with Rangers to ease their landing and ensure their continued existence in Scottish football. The consequence is a game whose bodies charged with its governance are held in contempt, lack integrity, transparency and trust and whose names are by-words for corruption and arrogance.

Ozyhibby
05-09-2017, 06:11 PM
With about 85% of Hibs fans in favour of a full investigation, it's disappointing that the club continue to ignore the supporters on this issue. It's even more disappointing that the fans reps are now doing the exact same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

lapsedhibee
05-09-2017, 06:33 PM
With respect, he is not right. He makes the argument that Rangers are guilty only of financial mismanagement, like all Rangers did was a bit of overspending. If only.

In reality, over a sustained period of time they did indeed overspend. They also indulged in a tax evasion scheme, which in order to hide from the authorities they improperly registered players and officials in their employ. These actions gave them an unfair sporting advantage, brought the game into disrepute and led to a crisis in Scottish football. All of this has been proved in various court proceedings and investigations.

To make matters worse, far worse in my opinion, the SFA, the SPL, and now the SPFL, colluded with Rangers to ease their landing and ensure their continued existence in Scottish football. The consequence is a game whose bodies charged with its governance are held in contempt, lack integrity, transparency and trust and whose names are by-words for corruption and arrogance.

:agree:

WhileTheChief..
05-09-2017, 09:01 PM
With respect, he is not right. He makes the argument that Rangers are guilty only of financial mismanagement, like all Rangers did was a bit of overspending. If only.

In reality, over a sustained period of time they did indeed overspend. They also indulged in a tax evasion scheme, which in order to hide from the authorities they improperly registered players and officials in their employ. These actions gave them an unfair sporting advantage, brought the game into disrepute and led to a crisis in Scottish football. All of this has been proved in various court proceedings and investigations.

To make matters worse, far worse in my opinion, the SFA, the SPL, and now the SPFL, colluded with Rangers to ease their landing and ensure their continued existence in Scottish football. The consequence is a game whose bodies charged with its governance are held in contempt, lack integrity, transparency and trust and whose names are by-words for corruption and arrogance.

If it had been Brechin would anyone have cared?

Im not disputing anything you say here but it's been practically the same chat for the last 5 years.

Some of us just don't care as much as others.

Apparently that makes us part of the problem. Same as if we enjoy sky sports and don't kick up a fuss about player wages and transfer fees etc etc.

Well sod that. I enjoy the football and don't give a toss about stripping titles or all the legal stuff that surrounds the game. I also don't think the games corrupt at all. If that makes me part of the problem then so be it. I don't care!

Tomsk
05-09-2017, 09:15 PM
If it had been Brechin would anyone have cared?

Im not disputing anything you say here but it's been practically the same chat for the last 5 years.

Some of us just don't care as much as others.

Apparently that makes us part of the problem. Same as if we enjoy sky sports and don't kick up a fuss about player wages and transfer fees etc etc.

Well sod that. I enjoy the football and don't give a toss about stripping titles or all the legal stuff that surrounds the game. I also don't think the games corrupt at all. If that makes me part of the problem then so be it. I don't care!

That's entirely your prerogative. But if it had been Brechin they would have been rightly kicked out of the SFA, which only adds to the pervading stench of injustice for those who do care.

ancient hibee
05-09-2017, 10:04 PM
With about 85% of Hibs fans in favour of a full investigation, it's disappointing that the club continue to ignore the supporters on this issue. It's even more disappointing that the fans reps are now doing the exact same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There's lot in what you say but I don't think exaggerating the number of Hibs fans when it's 85percent of a handful who have voted in a poll on here does the argument any favours.For what it's worth I've never discussed or heard the subject mentioned by other Hibs fans other than on this board except when the Revenue finally won it's case.I really don't think although I'm not claiming to know that the majority don't give it much thought.
There's no doubt in my mind that the side letters are the big issue.The EBTs were all over various industries and were not tax evasion but companies taking a chance on tax law which had not been tested.I see Edinburgh Woollen Mill have just taken measures to unravel one.The fact that it took the Revenue to persevere through the appeals to get what I would consider to be Obviously the right result showed what a minefield tax law is.

blackpoolhibs
06-09-2017, 06:33 AM
There's lot in what you say but I don't think exaggerating the number of Hibs fans when it's 85percent of a handful who have voted in a poll on here does the argument any favours.For what it's worth I've never discussed or heard the subject mentioned by other Hibs fans other than on this board except when the Revenue finally won it's case.I really don't think although I'm not claiming to know that the majority don't give it much thought.
There's no doubt in my mind that the side letters are the big issue.The EBTs were all over various industries and were not tax evasion but companies taking a chance on tax law which had not been tested.I see Edinburgh Woollen Mill have just taken measures to unravel one.The fact that it took the Revenue to persevere through the appeals to get what I would consider to be Obviously the right result showed what a minefield tax law is.

Why do folk like yourself ignore the FACT that they HID the side letters? If they had shown the full contract up front to the authorities, we wouldn't be having any of this.

Their players were improperly registered, just as those from clubs like Spartans and others who have been thrown out of competitions or docked points.

They took the decision to hide those side letters, against the porn magnates advice.

Ask yourself why?

What they and everyone else concerned can't deny, is their players were not properly registered. The laws were there at the time and are still there to punish them.

To do nothing is a crime in itself, and will leave a stench no amount of air freshener will rid.

Ozyhibby
06-09-2017, 07:53 AM
There's lot in what you say but I don't think exaggerating the number of Hibs fans when it's 85percent of a handful who have voted in a poll on here does the argument any favours.For what it's worth I've never discussed or heard the subject mentioned by other Hibs fans other than on this board except when the Revenue finally won it's case.I really don't think although I'm not claiming to know that the majority don't give it much thought.
There's no doubt in my mind that the side letters are the big issue.The EBTs were all over various industries and were not tax evasion but companies taking a chance on tax law which had not been tested.I see Edinburgh Woollen Mill have just taken measures to unravel one.The fact that it took the Revenue to persevere through the appeals to get what I would consider to be Obviously the right result showed what a minefield tax law is.

You say I'm exaggerating the number because it's a poll on here but I've actually never met at Hibs fan who is not in favour of an investigation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

660
06-09-2017, 08:21 AM
With respect, he is not right. He makes the argument that Rangers are guilty only of financial mismanagement, like all Rangers did was a bit of overspending. If only.

In reality, over a sustained period of time they did indeed overspend. They also indulged in a tax evasion scheme, which in order to hide from the authorities they improperly registered players and officials in their employ. These actions gave them an unfair sporting advantage, brought the game into disrepute and led to a crisis in Scottish football. All of this has been proved in various court proceedings and investigations.

To make matters worse, far worse in my opinion, the SFA, the SPL, and now the SPFL, colluded with Rangers to ease their landing and ensure their continued existence in Scottish football. The consequence is a game whose bodies charged with its governance are held in contempt, lack integrity, transparency and trust and whose names are by-words for corruption and arrogance.

That wasn’t my point at all. My point was that people are more aware of the intricate details of Rangers cheating compared to other clubs for several pretty obvious reasons. Until you address the imbalance of the increased focus on Rangers, then it all seems quite hollow.

lapsedhibee
06-09-2017, 08:31 AM
That wasn’t my point at all. My point was that people are more aware of the intricate details of Rangers cheating compared to other clubs for several pretty obvious reasons. Until you address the imbalance of the increased focus on Rangers, then it all seems quite hollow.
How is it an imbalance? They were at it, systematically, for TEN YEARS, dwarfing anything that went on anywhere else. And for the avoidance of doubt I'm talking about side letters, not financial mismanagement.

Bostonhibby
06-09-2017, 08:50 AM
You say I'm exaggerating the number because it's a poll on here but I've actually never met at Hibs fan who is not in favour of an investigation.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI have what I'd call a " hard core" of 8 Hibs fans that I am frequently in touch with 2 St Mirren and one Hearts fan.

It may or may not be representative of a true sample as statistics can be interpreted to suit any agenda, however every one wants the titles stripped and the reasons recorded. They fully understand what hiding the side letters meant and also the effect of playing with players you could not otherwise have afforded.

Don't really know anyone who is in the "move on" camp.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

MrSmith
06-09-2017, 09:09 AM
I have what I'd call a " hard core" of 8 Hibs fans that I am frequently in touch with 2 St Mirren and one Hearts fan.

It may or may not be representative of a true sample as statistics can be interpreted to suit any agenda, however every one wants the titles stripped and the reasons recorded. They fully understand what hiding the side letters meant and also the effect of playing with players you could not otherwise have afforded.

Don't really know anyone who is in the "move on" camp.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

That reflects my friends too.

Crazyhorse
06-09-2017, 09:16 AM
There's lot in what you say but I don't think exaggerating the number of Hibs fans when it's 85percent of a handful who have voted in a poll on here does the argument any favours.For what it's worth I've never discussed or heard the subject mentioned by other Hibs fans other than on this board except when the Revenue finally won it's case.I really don't think although I'm not claiming to know that the majority don't give it much thought.
There's no doubt in my mind that the side letters are the big issue.The EBTs were all over various industries and were not tax evasion but companies taking a chance on tax law which had not been tested.I see Edinburgh Woollen Mill have just taken measures to unravel one.The fact that it took the Revenue to persevere through the appeals to get what I would consider to be Obviously the right result showed what a minefield tax law is.

I completely agree with your second point. Your first is debateable. Maybe some people who say they follow Hibs,i.e. take an interest, check the score etc. are not so focused on this. But those of us who for decades, purchase season tickets, go to games (even if it means travelling long distances), buy a lot of merchandise, etc. are very switched on to this scandal. If you had a season ticket for everyone of those cheating years (like I did) then you really do feel like you were cheated. Any chance of a refund? SFA? SPFL? Rod?

The fact that those who are responsible for the stewardship of our club at the moment seem to wish to 'move on' (i.e. assist in the cover up of rule breaking on an scale never before seen in Scottish football) makes me very angry.

The rational reaction would be too say f*** you to the whole thing, you're not getting another penny of my hard earned money. In other spheres of life you would do just that.
But football and supporting Hibs isn't an area where reason plays much of a role. Which is what the SFA, SPFL, those running the clubs, are banking on.

Crazyhorse
06-09-2017, 09:24 AM
The only thing I’ll say is it’s bizarre to single out Rangers for financial misconduct when several other clubs have done effectively the same thing. I find it embarrassing that Rangers are the target as opposed to the concept of financial doping. If sporting integrity is the aim then Rangers are entitled to say “ What about Motherwell Dundee or Hearts”? It comes across as an incredibly incoherent witch hunt as opposed to a legitimate desire for sporting integrity.

The whole thing strikes me as misguided and naive. I’d welcome an nvestigation into the effect of illegitimate finance on Scottish football and the honours won in that period. To focus on Rangers misses the point. I didn’t vote in the poll.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion but my view is that once the rules are properly applied to Rangers, and they lose the prizes which they won through the mis-registration of players(cheating), then attention will turn to those other club. Sevco and their pals in the media and elsewhere will turn over every stone to find out what was going on at Hearts etc. This is one of the reason I want to see Rangers properly punished for their rule breaking.

Thecat23
06-09-2017, 10:25 AM
If it had been Brechin would anyone have cared?

Im not disputing anything you say here but it's been practically the same chat for the last 5 years.

Some of us just don't care as much as others.

Apparently that makes us part of the problem. Same as if we enjoy sky sports and don't kick up a fuss about player wages and transfer fees etc etc.

Well sod that. I enjoy the football and don't give a toss about stripping titles or all the legal stuff that surrounds the game. I also don't think the games corrupt at all. If that makes me part of the problem then so be it. I don't care!

You don't think football is at all corrupt? Wow, you must live in a bubble as it's one of the most corrupt sports in the world.

Ozyhibby
06-09-2017, 11:04 AM
https://johnjamessite.com/

In relation to this thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

High-On-Hibs
06-09-2017, 11:08 AM
I also don't think the games corrupt at all. If that makes me part of the problem then so be it. I don't care!

:Ummm:

ancient hibee
06-09-2017, 11:18 AM
A

Why do folk like yourself ignore the FACT that they HID the side letters? If they had shown the full contract up front to the authorities, we wouldn't be having any of this.

Their players were improperly registered, just as those from clubs like Spartans and others who have been thrown out of competitions or docked points.

They took the decision to hide those side letters, against the porn magnates advice.

Ask yourself why?

What they and everyone else concerned can't deny, is their players were not properly registered. The laws were there at the time and are still there to punish them.

To do nothing is a crime in itself, and will leave a stench no amount of air freshener will rid.

And why don't people like you learn to read posts properly and then it would stop you making stupid comments about them?

WhileTheChief..
06-09-2017, 11:51 AM
You don't think football is at all corrupt? Wow, you must live in a bubble as it's one of the most corrupt sports in the world.

I just don't agree with that at all. Maybe we have differing opinions on what corruption is?

Aren't folk allowed or have different opinions on this matter? Seems me that anyone that wants to just move on is wrong and you guys are right?

I keep reading on here about corruption. Just because you guys think the game is corrupt doesn't mean that it is.

I don't even know what you mean by one of the most corrupt sports in the world? In what way?

I don't however suggest that you live in a bubble. I just see it differently to you and don't feel the need for everyone to agree with me.

I still think this whole thing is simply down to people's hatred of Rangers.

Ozyhibby
06-09-2017, 12:13 PM
I just don't agree with that at all. Maybe we have differing opinions on what corruption is?

Aren't folk allowed or have different opinions on this matter? Seems me that anyone that wants to just move on is wrong and you guys are right?

I keep reading on here about corruption. Just because you guys think the game is corrupt doesn't mean that it is.

I don't even know what you mean by one of the most corrupt sports in the world? In what way?

I don't however suggest that you live in a bubble. I just see it differently to you and don't feel the need for everyone to agree with me.

I still think this whole thing is simply down to people's hatred of Rangers.

It's not really about Rangers. It's about the SFA.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

cabbageandribs1875
06-09-2017, 12:16 PM
i see Gail has been using all his 30+ aliases to vote move on :greengrin

blackpoolhibs
06-09-2017, 12:56 PM
A


And why don't people like you learn to read posts properly and then it would stop you making stupid comments about them?

Why do you feel the need to cloud the issue with this, this is exactly what the authorities and the ex huns want?

There's no doubt in my mind that the side letters are the big issue.The EBTs were all over various industries and were not tax evasion but companies taking a chance on tax law which had not been tested.I see Edinburgh Woollen Mill have just taken measures to unravel one.The fact that it took the Revenue to persevere through the appeals to get what I would consider to be Obviously the right result showed what a minefield tax law is.


The laws were in place then, and are in place now to punish the club like athletes or cyclist would be?

High-On-Hibs
06-09-2017, 01:06 PM
I just don't agree with that at all. Maybe we have differing opinions on what corruption is?

Aren't folk allowed or have different opinions on this matter? Seems me that anyone that wants to just move on is wrong and you guys are right?

I keep reading on here about corruption. Just because you guys think the game is corrupt doesn't mean that it is.

I don't even know what you mean by one of the most corrupt sports in the world? In what way?

I don't however suggest that you live in a bubble. I just see it differently to you and don't feel the need for everyone to agree with me.

I still think this whole thing is simply down to people's hatred of Rangers.

We don't think it's corrupt, it IS corrupt. It's been shown up time and time again to be corrupt. Your argument seems to be for the sake of disagreement, rather than using logic.

Thecat23
06-09-2017, 01:12 PM
I just don't agree with that at all. Maybe we have differing opinions on what corruption is?

Aren't folk allowed or have different opinions on this matter? Seems me that anyone that wants to just move on is wrong and you guys are right?

I keep reading on here about corruption. Just because you guys think the game is corrupt doesn't mean that it is.

I don't even know what you mean by one of the most corrupt sports in the world? In what way?

I don't however suggest that you live in a bubble. I just see it differently to you and don't feel the need for everyone to agree with me.

I still think this whole thing is simply down to people's hatred of Rangers.

This isn't anything to do with The Rangers case. Football all over the world is corrupt. As I say have you been living in a bubble? Wasn't there a huge corruption case against FIFA or did I dream it?

These are facts not just made up by folk on here who have different opinions on the Rangers saga. That's fine you don't care about that not everyone will. But to be so naive to say you haven't seen or heard of any corruption is baffling.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35578319

ancient hibee
06-09-2017, 03:30 PM
Why do you feel the need to cloud the issue with this, this is exactly what the authorities and the ex huns want?

There's no doubt in my mind that the side letters are the big issue.The EBTs were all over various industries and were not tax evasion but companies taking a chance on tax law which had not been tested.I see Edinburgh Woollen Mill have just taken measures to unravel one.The fact that it took the Revenue to persevere through the appeals to get what I would consider to be Obviously the right result showed what a minefield tax law is.


The laws were in place then, and are in place now to punish the club like athletes or cyclist would be?
Haven't the faintest idea what you're on about.The point I'm making is that the main issue in the deception was the use of side letters and their non disclosure.That should be perfectly clear but you in some strange way think I'm making excuses for them.

SouthMoroccoStu
06-09-2017, 04:06 PM
It always winds me up when you see tv footage of the teams waiting in the tunnel at ibrox and they have the wooden honours boards with all "their" previously won honours

For me, this is one of the reasons why this should be taken forward

WhileTheChief..
06-09-2017, 04:15 PM
This isn't anything to do with The Rangers case. Football all over the world is corrupt. As I say have you been living in a bubble? Wasn't there a huge corruption case against FIFA or did I dream it?

These are facts not just made up by folk on here who have different opinions on the Rangers saga. That's fine you don't care about that not everyone will. But to be so naive to say you haven't seen or heard of any corruption is baffling.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35578319

Ok corruption in FIFA has been rife for years, I'll agree on that point.

It has had absolutely zero impact on Hibs though and if another thread on here is to believed then nobody would actually care as they only care about Hibs games!

WhileTheChief..
06-09-2017, 04:17 PM
We don't think it's corrupt, it IS corrupt. It's been shown up time and time again to be corrupt. Your argument seems to be for the sake of disagreement, rather than using logic.

Again, just because you say it's corrupt doesn't mean it is.

What is this corruption that you all know about that I've missed??

I'm disagreeing because I don't believe in what you guys are saying. That's a perfectly logical stance to take.

Ozyhibby
06-09-2017, 04:24 PM
Again, just because you say it's corrupt doesn't mean it is.

What is this corruption that you all know about that I've missed??

I'm disagreeing because I don't believe in what you guys are saying. That's a perfectly logical stance to take.

You don't think Rangers cheated?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thecat23
06-09-2017, 04:35 PM
Ok corruption in FIFA has been rife for years, I'll agree on that point.

It has had absolutely zero impact on Hibs though and if another thread on here is to believed then nobody would actually care as they only care about Hibs games!

Rangers did cheat and were found guilty. Thats corruption in our own back yard sadly. I feel not enough was done against them and to be honest goes for teams like Livvi and Hearts. Although Rangers were caught cheating the taxman.

Surely you can see that is cheating considering the outcome of the case. It's fine if you don't care it's about personal opinions. But to say it hasn't happened or nothing is corrupt is wrong.

WhileTheChief..
06-09-2017, 04:36 PM
I do.

They also had to start again from Div 2 which to me seemed like an appropriate 'punishment'.

I understand that there were different offences etc. and the focus has shifted from screwing the tax man to unregistered players but even so, I think it's time to move on.

Well aware that it's not a popular view on here and I'm not trying to convince anyone that my way of thinking is the right one.

The OP has a poll asking for our views. Surely it's ok to hold a different view to the general consensus or there would have been no point in having a poll?!

"Agree with me or your wrong" is not the best way to have a discussion or debate. (Not directed at you).

WhileTheChief..
06-09-2017, 04:49 PM
This is kinda moving all over the place a bit.

Rangers cheated and were found guilty, no argument there.

FIFA has corruption at its core, again agreed.

The whole game is corrupt. Nah.

Doncaster and Regan are corrupt? I very much doubt it. For real corruption look to Sep Blatter and his ilk.

Petrie? Don't believe it for a minute.

Scottish football in general I think is clean. Corruption to me is people colluding to gain an advantage over others by illegal means.

I think David Murray and the Rangers board knew exactly what they were doing and knew fine well it was at least against the spirit of the law. I don't think the same could be said of the people within the SFA.

If we think Petrie is corrupt, then by extension so are Hibs. I'm absolutely, 100% disagreeing with that.

JeMeSouviens
06-09-2017, 04:57 PM
This is kinda moving all over the place a bit.

Rangers cheated and were found guilty, no argument there.

FIFA has corruption at its core, again agreed.

The whole game is corrupt. Nah.

Doncaster and Regan are corrupt? I very much doubt it. For real corruption look to Sep Blatter and his ilk.

Petrie? Don't believe it for a minute.

Scottish football in general I think is clean. Corruption to me is people colluding to gain an advantage over others by illegal means.

I think David Murray and the Rangers board knew exactly what they were doing and knew fine well it was at least against the spirit of the law. I don't think the same could be said of the people within the SFA.

If we think Petrie is corrupt, then by extension so are Hibs. I'm absolutely, 100% disagreeing with that.


I don't think Doncaster & Regan set out to see someone (ie. the Huns, deceased) gain an advantage by illegal means. However, I absolutely do think that when they found out what the Huns had done and their likely consequential death, they shat the bed over what they perceived as the financial implications and did everything they could to either keep the old Huns on life support or parachute the new Zombie Huns straight into the top league. That's corrupt albeit perhaps with less of an evil motive than Murray. Petrie has to some extent been complicit but without knowing what actually went on behind the scenes it's difficult to say how much.

Keith_M
06-09-2017, 04:58 PM
i see Gail has been using all his 30+ aliases to vote move on :greengrin


Actually, one of those was me, I ticked the wrong box...



:greengrin

MrSmith
06-09-2017, 06:00 PM
This is kinda moving all over the place a bit.

Rangers cheated and were found guilty, no argument there.

FIFA has corruption at its core, again agreed.

The whole game is corrupt. Nah.

Doncaster and Regan are corrupt? I very much doubt it. For real corruption look to Sep Blatter and his ilk.

Petrie? Don't believe it for a minute.

Scottish football in general I think is clean. Corruption to me is people colluding to gain an advantage over others by illegal means.

I think David Murray and the Rangers board knew exactly what they were doing and knew fine well it was at least against the spirit of the law. I don't think the same could be said of the people within the SFA.

If we think Petrie is corrupt, then by extension so are Hibs. I'm absolutely, 100% disagreeing with that.

I guess we will find out who did collude within the ranks of the SFA & SPL to ensure Rangers gained an advantage over others? I don't believe for a second RP is corrupt but he could certainly allay fears by making a statement. Doesn't stop the Rangers making said statements, does it!?

Thecat23
06-09-2017, 06:51 PM
This is kinda moving all over the place a bit.

Rangers cheated and were found guilty, no argument there.

FIFA has corruption at its core, again agreed.

The whole game is corrupt. Nah.

Doncaster and Regan are corrupt? I very much doubt it. For real corruption look to Sep Blatter and his ilk.

Petrie? Don't believe it for a minute.

Scottish football in general I think is clean. Corruption to me is people colluding to gain an advantage over others by illegal means.

I think David Murray and the Rangers board knew exactly what they were doing and knew fine well it was at least against the spirit of the law. I don't think the same could be said of the people within the SFA.

If we think Petrie is corrupt, then by extension so are Hibs. I'm absolutely, 100% disagreeing with that.

I honestly think Doncaster and Regan have had dealings in helping The Rangers best they can. Whether that's back handers I don't know. I hear things from players and agents over the years about things that have "allegedly" happened. I can't say they are true or not true as I wasn't there but believe me some stories stink and would shock a few on here.

In fact I'm sure there are posters on here who themselves have heard the same through contacts in the game. But until proven then it's just a rumour which is fine. If true I'd hope we find out one day soon.

Eyrie
06-09-2017, 07:14 PM
The difference between clubs like Hearts, Livingston, Dundee, Gretna etc who overspent and went into administration, as opposed to Huns RIP who deliberately chose not to inform the authorities of the side letters, is very simple. Overspending was morally wrong but not a breach of the rules. Failing to properly register a player was and is a breach of the rules.

Smaller clubs have been thrown out of tournaments for not registering a player properly by omitting one signature. All that is being sought is a fair application of the rules when the offender was Huns RIP.


Actually, one of those was me, I ticked the wrong box...



:greengrin

LTHF!

AndyM_1875
06-09-2017, 07:30 PM
The difference between clubs like Hearts, Livingston, Dundee, Gretna etc who overspent and went into administration, as opposed to Huns RIP who deliberately chose not to inform the authorities of the side letters, is very simple. Overspending was morally wrong but not a breach of the rules. Failing to properly register a player was and is a breach of the rules.

Smaller clubs have been thrown out of tournaments for not registering a player properly by omitting one signature. All that is being sought is a fair application of the rules when the offender was Huns RIP.



LTHF!

To be fair, what went on at Tynecastle wasn't just overspending and a football club signing, then Picking and playing players that it cannot pay is also a rule breach. The SFA/SPFL didn't do much about that either and good old Hearts got away with it, won a cup& then went bust, sliding into Administration and sold their sob story which the media & a lot of fans who should know better, bought hook line & sinker.

HibbiesandtheBaddies
06-09-2017, 07:41 PM
We know they won't be stripped of titles.

next best thing is to make it abundantly clear that we know they were cheating :grr:

19317

lapsedhibee
06-09-2017, 08:42 PM
We know they won't be stripped of titles.

next best thing is to make it abundantly clear that we know they were cheating :grr:

19317

I doubt if that'll register tbh. Will the thes not just hide behind the "never mind what went on in the boardroom, we won the titles fair and square on the pitch" BS? :dunno:

southern hibby
06-09-2017, 08:46 PM
I do.

They also had to start again from Div 2 which to me seemed like an appropriate 'punishment'.

I understand that there were different offences etc. and the focus has shifted from screwing the tax man to unregistered players but even so, I think it's time to move on.

Well aware that it's not a popular view on here and I'm not trying to convince anyone that my way of thinking is the right one.

The OP has a poll asking for our views. Surely it's ok to hold a different view to the general consensus or there would have been no point in having a poll?!

"Agree with me or your wrong" is not the best way to have a discussion or debate. (Not directed at you).

Sorry but they never started AGAIN. A new club started in division two.

GGTTH

WhileTheChief..
06-09-2017, 09:13 PM
Jeezo, I was careful not to say relegated!

Not gonna get into the whole same club / new club chat. It's been done to death.

greenlex
07-09-2017, 02:34 AM
Jeezo, I was careful not to say relegated!

Not gonna get into the whole same club / new club chat. It's been done to death.

By the same token it wasn't punishment at all.

MacGruber
07-09-2017, 08:02 AM
Haven't read through the whole thread but...

Rangers and Hearts were caught cheating. Rangers debated the ebt issue and it went one way then the other through courts and verdict cheating. We want titles stripped

Hearts didn't debate the cheating. Caught red handed - international warrant out for their owner. They gained an unsporting advantage and don't even deny it. Cup wins in 08 & 12 should be stripped
... no?

Ozyhibby
07-09-2017, 09:05 AM
Haven't read through the whole thread but...

Rangers and Hearts were caught cheating. Rangers debated the ebt issue and it went one way then the other through courts and verdict cheating. We want titles stripped

Hearts didn't debate the cheating. Caught red handed - international warrant out for their owner. They gained an unsporting advantage and don't even deny it. Cup wins in 08 & 12 should be stripped
... no?

There is no evidence they broke any rules. We don't have any FFP rules in Scottish football, even now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

CropleyWasGod
07-09-2017, 09:24 AM
There is no evidence they broke any rules. We don't have any FFP rules in Scottish football, even now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They broke rules on late-payment of players and HMRC, and were punished accordingly.

HIGHLANDLEITHER
07-09-2017, 09:30 AM
I do.

They also had to start again from Div 2 which to me seemed like an appropriate 'punishment'.

I understand that there were different offences etc. and the focus has shifted from screwing the tax man to unregistered players but even so, I think it's time to move on.

Well aware that it's not a popular view on here and I'm not trying to convince anyone that my way of thinking is the right one.

The OP has a poll asking for our views. Surely it's ok to hold a different view to the general consensus or there would have been no point in having a poll?!

"Agree with me or your wrong" is not the best way to have a discussion or debate. (Not directed at you).
Just to clarify ,starting in Div 2 was not a punishment but a result of being liquidated. It was in fact a favour as, as a new club they had no right to a place and should have been behind other clubs such as Spartans. Hope this helps your understanding.

Peevemor
07-09-2017, 09:34 AM
There is no evidence they broke any rules. We don't have any FFP rules in Scottish football, even now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They committed fraud by entering into contracts with players, suppliers, etc. that they couldn't fulfil.

WhileTheChief..
07-09-2017, 11:37 AM
Just to clarify ,starting in Div 2 was not a punishment but a result of being liquidated. It was in fact a favour as, as a new club they had no right to a place and should have been behind other clubs such as Spartans. Hope this helps your understanding.

Ffs is there're any need for the condescending tone?

Punishment, relegation or whatever. They were out the top league for 3 years.

blackpoolhibs
07-09-2017, 02:42 PM
Ffs is there're any need for the condescending tone?

Punishment, relegation or whatever. They were out the top league for 3 years.

What are you on about, they have never been in the top league before? :confused:

Hibernia&Alba
07-09-2017, 02:49 PM
Until the side letters scandal is resolved this isn't over. Justice is yet to prevail.

CropleyWasGod
07-09-2017, 03:02 PM
They committed fraud by entering into contracts with players, suppliers, etc. that they couldn't fulfil.

Fraud would be a hard charge to prove in this situation, I think. (IIRC, there's a different attitude to issues like this in France, no?)

WhileTheChief..
07-09-2017, 05:08 PM
What are you on about, they have never been in the top league before? :confused:

If they're a new club, only three years old, then surely we should be applauding the new starts for the amazing progress they've made?

Cracking set of fans that everyone gets along with and absolutely no baggage that came with the old club?!

:offski:

Sammy7nil
07-09-2017, 06:41 PM
SFA have refused to carry out the review so I guess they have moved on :greengrin

CropleyWasGod
07-09-2017, 06:47 PM
SFA have refused to carry out the review so I guess they have moved on :greengrinThey haven't refused to carry it out. They have declined to participate in an independent review.
That review could still go ahead, at the behest of the SPFL. If they get the appropriate powers and terms of reference, the SFA might be legally forced to participate.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

Sammy7nil
07-09-2017, 07:41 PM
They haven't refused to carry it out. They have declined to participate in an independent review.
That review could still go ahead, at the behest of the SPFL. If they get the appropriate powers and terms of reference, the SFA might be legally forced to participate.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

Did the SPFL not ask the SFA to carryout the review?

CropleyWasGod
07-09-2017, 07:46 PM
Did the SPFL not ask the SFA to carryout the review?That wouldn't be independent [emoji41]

They invited the SFA to participate.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

majorhibs
22-09-2017, 10:13 PM
If it had been Brechin would anyone have cared?

Im not disputing anything you say here but it's been practically the same chat for the last 5 years.

Some of us just don't care as much as others.

Apparently that makes us part of the problem. Same as if we enjoy sky sports and don't kick up a fuss about player wages and transfer fees etc etc.

Well sod that. I enjoy the football and don't give a toss about stripping titles or all the legal stuff that surrounds the game. I also don't think the games corrupt at all. If that makes me part of the problem then so be it. I don't care!

No time to go further. Your response here, & a few others, utterly & totally disgust me. YOU don't care & want to move on? Who gave big heid brilliant YOU my voice. You & yer like disgust me as much as when I found out all those games I went to cheering on Hibs, were rigged, cos Hibs with a mini scale budget against these cheats, were actually miles worse off & couldn't hold onto players cos Hibs payed legit tax & Huns didn't! You & yer like disgust me! YOU dinnae care! So, I must move on! Dis effin gusting!

pacorosssco
22-09-2017, 10:20 PM
Uefa should also be involved but this is complete confirmation that our game is run by a board with agenda for only two clubs. Why Hibs and rest dont stand up to I dont know but Petrie conflict of interest is most likely the reason. We need change top to bottom. Uefa should also be involved here.For a small country we have well supported league we could run it so much better.

Centre Hawf
23-09-2017, 12:57 AM
No time to go further. Your response here, & a few others, utterly & totally disgust me. YOU don't care & want to move on? Who gave big heid brilliant YOU my voice. You & yer like disgust me as much as when I found out all those games I went to cheering on Hibs, were rigged, cos Hibs with a mini scale budget against these cheats, were actually miles worse off & couldn't hold onto players cos Hibs payed legit tax & Huns didn't! You & yer like disgust me! YOU dinnae care! So, I must move on! Dis effin gusting!

Alternatively WHO gave YOU his voice if you want something done. Its game of opinions and this topic has many. Going around saying people disgust you for having one is a bit OTT.

marinello59
23-09-2017, 01:09 AM
No time to go further. Your response here, & a few others, utterly & totally disgust me. YOU don't care & want to move on? Who gave big heid brilliant YOU my voice. You & yer like disgust me as much as when I found out all those games I went to cheering on Hibs, were rigged, cos Hibs with a mini scale budget against these cheats, were actually miles worse off & couldn't hold onto players cos Hibs payed legit tax & Huns didn't! You & yer like disgust me! YOU dinnae care! So, I must move on! Dis effin gusting!

Hopefully there was drink involved. :greengrin

pacorosssco
23-09-2017, 02:01 AM
Weve laughed at dodgy italian sides in past and some shoking behavoir has come to light bribing ref semi v dundee utd one. Uefa did nought but Italian FA at least took action with Juventus in stripping titles. Its a club the directors in SPL all looking to get well paid gig SFA so dont rock the boat

Dashing Bob S
23-09-2017, 02:21 AM
Some people are just weird the way they don't accept cheating, corruption and bias as an integral part of sport.

Seriously - there is no moving on against a culture that can load outcomes to the point that sporting competition becomes a meaningless concept. If you don't resist that you might as well just throw your money away - in fact it can scarcely be called 'your' money anyway.

WhileTheChief..
23-09-2017, 07:06 AM
Feels like I took the brunt of a drunken outrage last night purely cause you couldnae be arsed reading any further!

That just seems so unfair so it does :na na:

hibsbollah
23-09-2017, 07:09 AM
Feels like I took the brunt of a drunken outrage last night purely cause you couldnae be arsed reading any further!

That just seems so unfair so it does :na na:

I think most of us share majorhibs' frustration that you don't seem to think justice or fair play has any place in modern sport. But he wasnt passing the bottle around.

WhileTheChief..
23-09-2017, 07:22 AM
I've never once said that.

I do however think our game is fair and don't think everything about it is corrupt.

It's just a different point of view. Pretty sure you've held different views from others in the past without the name calling?

hibsbollah
23-09-2017, 07:25 AM
I've never once said that.

I do however think our game is fair and don't think everything about it is corrupt.

It's just a different point of view. Pretty sure you've held different views from others in the past without the name calling?

Im fairly sure the only 'name calling' I've done is using the pronoun 'you'.

WhileTheChief..
23-09-2017, 07:31 AM
You said that most people on here would agree with the other poster that my views are f ing disgusting.

Does that mean you also hold that view?

I mean really? You're disgusted because I don't agree with you about the handling of the Rangers situation ?

This whole thread was started as a poll asking for people's views. Surely you've got to accept that some will disagree with you?

hibsbollah
23-09-2017, 07:44 AM
You said that most people on here would agree with the other poster that my views are f ing disgusting.

Does that mean you also hold that view?

I mean really? You're disgusted because I don't agree with you about the handling of the Rangers situation ?

This whole thread was started as a poll asking for people's views. Surely you've got to accept that some will disagree with you?

Your position makes no sense to me at all. It's not a subjective matter of liking a random thing more than another random thing and agreeing to disagree. I'm not going to be more specific unless this opens me to the suggestion that I'm name calling!

Centre Hawf
23-09-2017, 05:44 PM
Your position makes no sense to me at all. It's not a subjective matter of liking a random thing more than another random thing and agreeing to disagree. I'm not going to be more specific unless this opens me to the suggestion that I'm name calling!

Your position does makes sense to me. But in my opinion some people are literally wanting to flog a dead horse at this point. Why do you and others want the title strips? Is it to laugh at Rangers? They'll say they still won them all like they pretend they're still the same club (another topic and patter that has since grown tiresome). Do you want us to be instated into Champions League places for the early or mid 00's? Did you check if Garry Smith has it in him to compete in it still cause we're certainly not getting any money backdated for it. Do you want a ceremony for runners up medals for some random year?

I firmly believe the best course of action is to make sure something like this never happens again and bring the game near onto its knees like it threatened to do at times over the course of this chapter of Scottish Footballs history. Constantly opening the book to edit it or rehash over the ins and outs of it now only allows it to drag on and hurt the game more in my opinion. But as I've said before we all have them and entitled to a different one.

lapsedhibee
23-09-2017, 05:52 PM
Your position does makes sense to me. But in my opinion some people are literally wanting to flog a dead horse at this point. Why do you and others want the title strips? Is it to laugh at Rangers?
No
They'll say they still won them all like they pretend they're still the same club (another topic and patter that has since grown tiresome). Do you want us to be instated into Champions League places for the early or mid 00's?
No
Did you check if Garry Smith has it in him to compete in it still cause we're certainly not getting any money backdated for it.
No
Do you want a ceremony for runners up medals for some random year?
No
I firmly believe the best course of action is to make sure something like this never happens again and bring the game near onto its knees like it threatened to do
No, it didn't. Regan/Doncaster said it would. They were wrong. at times over the course of this chapter of Scottish Footballs history. Constantly opening the book to edit it or rehash over the ins and outs of it now only allows it to drag on and hurt the game more in my opinion. But as I've said before we all have them and entitled to a different one.

It's about doing the right thing imo. How does that "hurt the game"? :confused:

SanFranHibs
23-09-2017, 06:07 PM
I have said before on here that I think everyone should just start calling them The Rangers 2012 and start counting their trophies from 2012.

I really think it would irritate the hell out of them.

The Rangers 2012:

Zero Scottish Premier titles.
Zero Scottish Cups.
Zero League Cups.
1 Petrofac Cup
3 lower division titles.

Arch Stanton
23-09-2017, 06:36 PM
The 239, or whatever it is now, who voted to keep the Rangers thing going are hardly a massive force within the Hibs community. They don't even occupy the moral high ground - in order to do that they would have to dictate to me what exactly a football club is - are they going to tell me I can't use the term Rangers for the club that plays at Ibrox any more (despite the fact the majority of Scots do)?

Are they going to assume I am with the few punters that held a stupid banner up in the North about "ST holders not being asked their views?" That went down like a lead balloon didn't it?

Anyway, soapboxes aside, it just isn't that important. And as Engels said (or was it Marx), if it isnlt rational, it isn't real!

Johnny Clash
23-09-2017, 07:11 PM
The 239, or whatever it is now, who voted to keep the Rangers thing going are hardly a massive force within the Hibs community. They don't even occupy the moral high ground - in order to do that they would have to dictate to me what exactly a football club is - are they going to tell me I can't use the term Rangers for the club that plays at Ibrox any more (despite the fact the majority of Scots do)?

Are they going to assume I am with the few punters that held a stupid banner up in the North about "ST holders not being asked their views?" That went down like a lead balloon didn't it?

Anyway, soapboxes aside, it just isn't that important. And as Engels said (or was it Marx), if it isnlt rational, it isn't real!

In what way did it 'go down like a lead balloon'? I've mostly only ever heard/read praise for the banner.

majorhibs
23-09-2017, 08:33 PM
Being clever & witty in replying is what it is. Cheating, is disgusting! As are the defenders of the cheaters SO desperate to minimise their cheating. As I said yesterday, the defenders of this shower of cheats, on here, disgust me. My opinion, I'm disgusted about all the years I went to those games because I was being conned, by ex huns & SFA, & now, the (not said lightly or in drink) apologist move on-ers on here disgust me! As in dis effin gustin if it wasn't read yesterday. I don't expect or speak for anyone but myself, & how I feel totally aggrieved at the cheating on ME & MY TEAM, but to have to listen to apologists for cheating ridiculing my & others viewpoint is too much. Fairness sporting integrity no cheating where does move on fit into that?
Edit-- for youngsters- all the above applies to "lying" as well!

Tornadoes70
23-09-2017, 08:43 PM
The 239, or whatever it is now, who voted to keep the Rangers thing going are hardly a massive force within the Hibs community. They don't even occupy the moral high ground - in order to do that they would have to dictate to me what exactly a football club is - are they going to tell me I can't use the term Rangers for the club that plays at Ibrox any more (despite the fact the majority of Scots do)?

Are they going to assume I am with the few punters that held a stupid banner up in the North about "ST holders not being asked their views?" That went down like a lead balloon didn't it?

Anyway, soapboxes aside, it just isn't that important. And as Engels said (or was it Marx), if it isnlt rational, it isn't real!

Why then does every other sport strip titles from those found out to have gained sporting advantage from mendacious actions?

Why should Scottish Football be the odd one out when it allows titles won mendaciously to stand?

Surely sporting integrity matters?

GGTTH

lapsedhibee
23-09-2017, 08:53 PM
Why then does every other sport strip titles from those found out to have gained sporting advantage from mendacious actions?

Why should Scottish Football be the odd one out when it allows titles won mendaciously to stand?


Pro wrestling. That's our paradigm.

Tornadoes70
23-09-2017, 09:07 PM
Pro wrestling. That's our paradigm.

As a kid watching Big Daddy and Mick McManus thrash each other around like rag dolls are you saying I was watching a rigged show? I demand justice! :greengrin

Scottish football governing bodies and old time wrestling kidology. It all makes sense now :worms:

GGTTH

majorhibs
23-09-2017, 09:29 PM
Feels like I took the brunt of a drunken outrage last night purely cause you couldnae be arsed reading any further!

That just seems so unfair so it does :na na:

Yes, ar*e is the best word applied to yourself.IMO! There's a good few places west of here have similar views to you.

lord bunberry
23-09-2017, 09:42 PM
Being clever & witty in replying is what it is. Cheating, is disgusting! As are the defenders of the cheaters SO desperate to minimise their cheating. As I said yesterday, the defenders of this shower of cheats, on here, disgust me. My opinion, I'm disgusted about all the years I went to those games because I was being conned, by ex huns & SFA, & now, the (not said lightly or in drink) apologist move on-ers on here disgust me! As in dis effin gustin if it wasn't read yesterday. I don't expect or speak for anyone but myself, & how I feel totally aggrieved at the cheating on ME & MY TEAM, but to have to listen to apologists for cheating ridiculing my & others viewpoint is too much. Fairness sporting integrity no cheating where does move on fit into that?
Edit-- for youngsters- all the above applies to "lying" as well!
Well said mate.

Bostonhibby
23-09-2017, 09:47 PM
Well said mate.Hear hear.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

w pilton hibby
23-09-2017, 10:22 PM
Being clever & witty in replying is what it is. Cheating, is disgusting! As are the defenders of the cheaters SO desperate to minimise their cheating. As I said yesterday, the defenders of this shower of cheats, on here, disgust me. My opinion, I'm disgusted about all the years I went to those games because I was being conned, by ex huns & SFA, & now, the (not said lightly or in drink) apologist move on-ers on here disgust me! As in dis effin gustin if it wasn't read yesterday. I don't expect or speak for anyone but myself, & how I feel totally aggrieved at the cheating on ME & MY TEAM, but to have to listen to apologists for cheating ridiculing my & others viewpoint is too much. Fairness sporting integrity no cheating where does move on fit into that?
Edit-- for youngsters- all the above applies to "lying" as well!

So besides forcibly expressing your opinion on here what do you want to happen?

And what are you doing to make it happen?

Tornadoes70
23-09-2017, 10:43 PM
So besides forcibly expressing your opinion on here what do you want to happen?

And what are you doing to make it happen?

He's not being melodramatic as you're trying to make out using such terminology. The man's entitled to give his opinion on what has been a shameful episode in Scottish footballing history when failing to strip titles that were won with such cunning.

I think most of us are fully aware that nothing is going to happen now but surely folk are allowed to vent their frustration at what has been a collusive cover up by a member of the Judiciary and the footballing authorities to ensure the huns kept their ill gotten gains.

Its a disgraceful event but I've had many experiences where the authorities engage in these type of activities and I was not at all surprised by the scale of what has happened here unlike unfortunately the vast majority of ordinary trusting folk.

GGTTH

kaimendhibs
24-09-2017, 02:20 AM
Check out @russabercrombie’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/russabercrombie/status/911545526742654977?s=09 NOTHING TO SEE, LETS MOVE ON

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Arch Stanton
24-09-2017, 08:30 AM
In what way did it 'go down like a lead balloon'? I've mostly only ever heard/read praise for the banner.

While there will have been people praising the banner I doubt it was that many in the scale of things. I first noticed it (from West lower) when people round about were looking up and trying to make out what it was saying - they figured it was something to do with Rangers and went back to watching the game - as I did.

And since Rangers never concealed the fact that they were using EBTs and, in fact, got advice that they were legal and this colours the thing for many - not really the black and white "cheating" that is being claimed. In those days contractors were using various schemes to avoid tax which then fell foul of the taxman's ruling - that's just how things were.

Unfair yes, but just isn't something that can be put right this far ahead.

lapsedhibee
24-09-2017, 08:49 AM
While there will have been people praising the banner I doubt it was that many in the scale of things. I first noticed it (from West lower) when people round about were looking up and trying to make out what it was saying - they figured it was something to do with Rangers and went back to watching the game - as I did.

And since Rangers never concealed the fact that they were using EBTs and, in fact, got advice that they were legal and this colours the thing for many - not really the black and white "cheating" that is being claimed. In those days contractors were using various schemes to avoid tax which then fell foul of the taxman's ruling - that's just how things were.

Unfair yes, but just isn't something that can be put right this far ahead.
Side. Letters.

Jack Hackett
24-09-2017, 08:53 AM
Side. Letters.
... Illegal. Cheating. Side. Letters. Just so everyone's on the same page

Arch Stanton
24-09-2017, 09:12 AM
... Illegal. Cheating. Side. Letters. Just so everyone's on the same page

Doesn't seem that Lord Nimmo Smith is on the same page with his "no sporting advantage" ruling. And while I don't agree with that either it looks to me, and probably a lot of others, as if that was the end of the line. Dead horses and all that.

Is this really the worst wrong in the world that needs rectified?

Baldy Foghorn
24-09-2017, 09:17 AM
Being clever & witty in replying is what it is. Cheating, is disgusting! As are the defenders of the cheaters SO desperate to minimise their cheating. As I said yesterday, the defenders of this shower of cheats, on here, disgust me. My opinion, I'm disgusted about all the years I went to those games because I was being conned, by ex huns & SFA, & now, the (not said lightly or in drink) apologist move on-ers on here disgust me! As in dis effin gustin if it wasn't read yesterday. I don't expect or speak for anyone but myself, & how I feel totally aggrieved at the cheating on ME & MY TEAM, but to have to listen to apologists for cheating ridiculing my & others viewpoint is too much. Fairness sporting integrity no cheating where does move on fit into that?
Edit-- for youngsters- all the above applies to "lying" as well!

Disgusted by Hibs fans you don't even know?

lapsedhibee
24-09-2017, 09:22 AM
Doesn't seem that Lord Nimmo Smith is on the same page with his "no sporting advantage" ruling. And while I don't agree with that either it looks to me, and probably a lot of others, as if that was the end of the line. Dead horses and all that.

Is this really the worst wrong in the world that needs rectified?

Yes, that makes sense. Only have an opinion on whatever is the worst wrong in the world at whatever time you're having it. Should I hold the door open for this frail old lady? No, because Kim and Donald are threatening to blow up the world! :crazy:

HIGHLANDLEITHER
24-09-2017, 09:43 AM
While there will have been people praising the banner I doubt it was that many in the scale of things. I first noticed it (from West lower) when people round about were looking up and trying to make out what it was saying - they figured it was something to do with Rangers and went back to watching the game - as I did.

And since Rangers never concealed the fact that they were using EBTs and, in fact, got advice that they were legal and this colours the thing for many - not really the black and white "cheating" that is being claimed. In those days contractors were using various schemes to avoid tax which then fell foul of the taxman's ruling - that's just how things were.

Unfair yes, but just isn't something that can be put right this far ahead.
Why did Rangers twice deny the existence of side letters to the SFA? It was because it was against SFA rules and also made EBT's illegal as payments had to be discretionary and non regular.
The evidence from the Craig Whyte trial and the ruling by the Supreme Court calls into question the the role of the SFA and what they knew at the time. IT IS THE SFA who need to be investigated by an independent body. Whatever comes out of that is important for the future. There is so much evidence that they did not fulfil their duty to the whole of Scottish Football to accept that they can continue unexamined.
An independent judicial enquiry is the best route as Reagan shoehorned himself onto the Nimmo Smith commission and changed the scope of the enquiry to ensure the result he wanted.
How can anyone have faith in our governing body when they are so desperate to ensure there is no analysis of their organisation?

Arch Stanton
24-09-2017, 09:44 AM
Yes, that makes sense. Only have an opinion on whatever is the worst wrong in the world at whatever time you're having it. Should I hold the door open for this frail old lady? No, because Kim and Donald are threatening to blow up the world! :crazy:

What on earth are you slaverring about. I have an opinion, of course I have an opinion, I'm just not holding my breath until the Rangers thing is rectified - because I know it won't be.

majorhibs
28-09-2017, 06:25 PM
What on earth are you slaverring about. I have an opinion, of course I have an opinion, I'm just not holding my breath until the Rangers thing is rectified - because I know it won't be.

Sae many of them... it's too late, it's been judged already, there's no chance, because they all KNOW, which is the new bible. Like "we all know bad happened, but we know it won't be fixed, so you lot stop going on about it" so, the ex huns who cheated us Hibs fans for loads of years by doing illegal things like paying/hiding/issuing side letters while paying what 1/3 less tax? than others, well, because crabis, w pilton, zoomer while the naebodys chief etc think cos they like their fitba the now & they & only they dinnae want nae rockin of THEIR cozy wee apple carts, everybody else who feels a huge sense of having being conned out of money & cheated huge style, should shut up?

Arch Stanton
28-09-2017, 06:33 PM
Sae many of them... it's too late, it's been judged already, there's no chance, because they all KNOW, which is the new bible. Like "we all know bad happened, but we know it won't be fixed, so you lot stop going on about it" so, the ex huns who cheated us Hibs fans for loads of years by doing illegal things like paying/hiding/issuing side letters while paying what 1/3 less tax? than others, well, because crabis, w pilton, zoomer while the naebodys chief etc think cos they like their fitba the now & they & only they dinnae want nae rockin of THEIR cozy wee apple carts, everybody else who feels a huge sense of having being conned out of money & cheated huge style, should shut up?

Sorry, but I didn't have anymore say in the decision not to proceed with this than you did.

majorhibs
28-09-2017, 06:43 PM
Sorry, but I didn't have anymore say in the decision not to proceed with this than you did.

But you did plenty squeelin against it regardless! Since day ONE, the cheats i.e. the zombie ex huns have been spinnin outside their graves about "stripping titles". If you & the zombies & the SFA had paid attention, any & every effin other cheat WORLDWIDE has been stripped of what they "won" when they had been found to be cheating. What the F is difficult here? Side letters?

Arch Stanton
28-09-2017, 06:52 PM
But you did plenty squeelin against it regardless! Since day ONE, the cheats i.e. the zombie ex huns have been spinnin outside their graves about "stripping titles". If you & the zombies & the SFA had paid attention, any & every effin other cheat WORLDWIDE has been stripped of what they "won" when they had been found to be cheating. What the F is difficult here? Side letters?

One person's squeeling is another persons stating an opinion.

majorhibs
28-09-2017, 07:07 PM
Disgusted by Hibs fans you don't even know?
Yeah baldy, disgusted. What exactly is your criteria of correct behaviour? Do you teach it to kids? Lying & cheating, awrite if it's huns & sfa?

One person's squeeling is another persons stating an opinion.

Your opinion as stated earlier Scottish fitba isnae bent? Huns hiding side letters to pay players many many more pounds than other teams, huns winning cups & titles, now a couple of you are happy so everyone else shut up?