John McGinn bid rejected (merged threads)

[DC_Hibs]

Based on the Sam Clucas fee (more than the £12m Hull previously rejected from Swansea) I'd be holding out for £20m.
I'm pretty sure Sam is pinching himself having been at Chesterfield 2 years ago after being in non league before that. Competent player but not one that was overly talked about for Hull form from what I have read. He's hardly one signed for his potential when he's 27 next month either. Jack Cork runs it close at alleged £10m.

I know, I know, we can't compare fees with down south........but these fees - among others this summer - are staggering.

[BSEJVT]

Lennon sounded like someone who was resigned to losing him, without actually saying that

Hibs will lose McGinn whether this window or the next

I would cash in now whilst his stock and price is at its highest

I have seen some extremely average performances from McGinn in the past season and my personal view is that his development has stalled.

He is very predictable and teams have sussed out how to play him, still capable of the odd moment of brilliance but nowhere near a dominant as he was 18 moths ago.

[neil7908]

What we don't want is this dragging out for the remainder of the transfer window.

If he's going to go we need time to sign a replacement so Hibs and Lennon are absolutely right to be clear publicly about our valuation.

I still have a feeling we'll see £1.25m next, then £1.75m etc until the last day of the window when they might start getting close. If he goes late in the window it must be with enough time for us to get Hendo plus one other quality signing.

[BSEJVT]

Accepting the first bid from a Championship club managed by an ex The Rangers fan!

I guarantee we got bumped!

Seems like it was a maximum of £1 million...which is nowhere near good enough.

You do realise that in any transaction their is a buyer and seller and if the seller needs to sell he can only get the most the interested buyer(s) will pay.

Seems to me that Forest were the only buyer in the equation, I have absolutely no doubt that Cummings signed his extended contract on the basis of a buy out clause being inserted.

Once that was met he was gone,

You could take the view that by him signing that contract we got another year out of him and a bigger fee which if correct makes your comments a bit naïve.

The one thing I can absolutely guarantee is that the people running Hibs are better and more experienced in their roles than you or I are and they secured Hibs the best deal they could in circumstances where all the power lies with the player.

[neil7908]

None of the players knew anything about the Forest bid yesterday before the game, so if SJM did he kept it to himself.

Which pretty much confirms Lennon was right - bid was made to unsettle the player.

Given Kris Boyd apparently knew more than our squad is clear evidence of underhanded tactics. The timing is pretty damning given it seems to have happened just before he was commentating on a Hibs game on national TV.

[Brightside]

SJM has an improved offer on the table from Hibs to extend his contract. Low and behold a club comes in for him during those negotiations. Agents trying to increase their cut.

[The Spaceman]

We should be refusing to do business with Notts County after Warburton's comments about Cumming's fee...or they can come in at £15m :na na:

[neil7908]

SJM has an improved offer on the table from Hibs to extend his contract. Low and behold a club comes in for him during those negotiations. Agents trying to increase their cut.

Any knowledge about whether John was/is inclined to accept? BBC seemed to suggest he'd rejected our offer but I'd trust them about as far as I can throw them on Hibs!

[scoopyboy]

Any knowledge about whether John was/is inclined to accept? BBC seemed to suggest he'd rejected our offer but I'd trust them about as far as I can throw them on Hibs!

I haven't seen anything to suggest this, you sure?

[G B Young]

I haven't seen anything to suggest this, you sure?

The BBC report said he rejected a new deal at St Mirren prior to joining Hibs. No mention of current talks.

[neil7908]

The BBC report said he rejected a new deal at St Mirren prior to joining Hibs. No mention of current talks.

Sorry, checked the article again and I'd misread.

[Beefster]

We should be refusing to do business with Notts County after Warburton's comments about Cumming's fee...or they can come in at £15m :na na:

I'm not sure why we'd take it out on Notts County tbh.

[One Day Soon]

I'm not sure why we'd take it out on Notts County tbh.


Yes that would seem a bit indiscriminate. But hell, might as well fall out with all of Nottingham.

[greenlex]

Yes that would seem a bit indiscriminate. But hell, might as well fall out with all of Nottingham.

**** the sherriff

[One Day Soon]

**** the sherriff

That's a bit random too but there's no reason not to vilify all types of Sheriff I suppose...

[stu in nottingham]

Yes that would seem a bit indiscriminate. But hell, might as well fall out with all of Nottingham.

Say it ain't so. There are one or two of the good guys here too.

[Hibernia&Alba]

We'll see what happens between now and the deadline. It could go to the wire. Let's hope we don't end up losing him on the cheap: there is huge money sloshing around the English Championship, so let's get the highest possible amount, if indeed he goes.

[Ryan69]

I would say players from Scottish clubs on the cheap rather than them being Scottish. Not enough money in the game up here so we are to be thankful for any fees we get.

Danny Drinkwater is valued at £30 million.

Read that today...lol

[Hibbyradge]

Hibs will lose McGinn whether this window or the next

I would cash in now whilst his stock and price is at its highest

I have seen some extremely average performances from McGinn in the past season and my personal view is that his development has stalled.

He is very predictable and teams have sussed out how to play him, still capable of the odd moment of brilliance but nowhere near a dominant as he was 18 moths ago.

I couldn't disagree more.

SJM is a much improved player from last season, and he's stronger and fitter.

No player in the world plays to their maximum every week. I mentioned Pogba elsewhere. He cost £90m but some weeks he looks ordinary. That's the nature of sport.

If we can't get him to extend his contract at Hibs, I'd keep McGinn until January at the earliest. His stock and price will be even higher then.

[Lancs Harp]

I couldn't disagree more.

SJM is a much improved player from last season, and he's stronger and fitter.

No player in the world plays to their maximum every week. I mentioned Pogba elsewhere. He cost £90m but some weeks he looks ordinary. That's the nature of sport.

If we can't get him to extend his contract at Hibs, I'd keep McGinn until January at the earliest. His stock and price will be even higher then.

Not quite sure with the much improved from last season line. We've only played four league games, he was in and out yesterday and poor like the rest of the team against Hamilton. I think the season is far too young for such sweeping generalisations myself.

[Hibbyradge]

I think the season is far too young for such sweeping generalisations myself.

I don't.

[snedzuk]

That's a bit random too but there's no reason not to vilify all types of Sheriff I suppose...

Especially that Sheriff hall - really annoys me.

[CropleyWasGod]

Especially that Sheriff hall - really annoys me.Sheriff John Brown always hated me.

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[flash]

Would surely take an exceptional offer to shift him.

[Hibbyradge]

I used to like Omar Sharif.

[southsider]

Sheriff John Brown always hated me.

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For what I do not know

[BSEJVT]

I couldn't disagree more.

SJM is a much improved player from last season, and he's stronger and fitter.

No player in the world plays to their maximum every week. I mentioned Pogba elsewhere. He cost £90m but some weeks he looks ordinary. That's the nature of sport.

If we can't get him to extend his contract at Hibs, I'd keep McGinn until January at the earliest. His stock and price will be even higher then.

My observation was based on last season as well not the 4 game league sample you have chosen.

I haven't seen much improvement in him in the last 18 months and would cash in now as IMO he has reached a plateau from which I am not sure he will escape.

I would say this season, at least so far as the league is concerned it is 2 good 2 bad. That's not a good enough average, albeit that he is up against better opposition.

He looks bigger but that often comes at the price of pace.

His shooting is poor and will have a less than 1 in 10 ratio of shots to target

18 months ago's John McGinn would take people into a challenge roll off them, escape with the ball and run away from them

Lately many of these people are hanging off him as he attempts to evade them. This he failed to do on numerous occasions yesterday.

Teams have smartened up to the fact that 7 or 8 times out of 10 he it going to take the ball and try and crab walk away from them and have 2 players waiting for him to do just that and like yesterday pressurise him into playing loose passes or take the ball from him.

There is not a chance in hell IMO that he will be worth more in January than he is now. The only players in the country who might be are proven goal scorers needed to haul a sinking team out the hole they have dug themselves.

However as both our viewpoints are entirely subjective I guess we will never know.

[RyeSloan]

My observation was based on last season as well not the 4 game league sample you have chosen.

I haven't seen much improvement in him in the last 18 months and would cash in now as IMO he has reached a plateau from which I am not sure he will escape.

I would say this season, at least so far as the league is concerned it is 2 good 2 bad. That's not a good enough average, albeit that he is up against better opposition.

He looks bigger but that often comes at the price of pace.

His shooting is poor and will have a less than 1 in 10 ratio of shots to target

18 months ago's John McGinn would take people into a challenge roll off them, escape with the ball and run away from them

Lately many of these people are hanging off him as he attempts to evade them. This he failed to do on numerous occasions yesterday.

Teams have smartened up to the fact that 7 or 8 times out of 10 he it going to take the ball and try and crab walk away from them and have 2 players waiting for him to do just that and like yesterday pressurise him into playing loose passes or take the ball from him.

There is not a chance in hell IMO that he will be worth more in January than he is now. The only players in the country who might be are proven goal scorers needed to haul a sinking team out the hole they have dug themselves.

However as both our viewpoints are entirely subjective I guess we will never know.

Think that's an extremely critical view of Johns performance yesterday.

He did get caught a couple of times in possession but there was a multitude of others where 2 or 3 of them couldn't stop him...he also played the pass that put Barker clean through. Combined with Bartley the two of them pretty much owned the midfield.

I do get the general jist but in my opinion he has always mis placed the odd pass (oddly often the simple ones) and been caught in possession so it's not something new or something that didn't happen 18 months ago.

As for no chance in hell he will be worth more in Jan than now...well we will need to agree to disagree on that!

[southsider]

Give him a big re-signing fee( £100,000 ) to extend his contract by 2 years. We will get that back later.

[Moulin Yarns]

Especially that Sheriff hall - really annoys me.

In a roundabout way it annoy me too, and I rarely have to circumnavigate it

[BSEJVT]

Think that's an extremely critical view of Johns performance yesterday.

He did get caught a couple of times in possession but there was a multitude of others where 2 or 3 of them couldn't stop him...he also played the pass that put Barker clean through. Combined with Bartley the two of them pretty much owned the midfield.

I do get the general jist but in my opinion he has always mis placed the odd pass (oddly often the simple ones) and been caught in possession so it's not something new or something that didn't happen 18 months ago.

As for no chance in hell he will be worth more in Jan than now...well we will need to agree to disagree on that!

No question the ball to Barker was a moment of real quality

Maybe I expect too much of SJM

18 months ago I thought he had the potential to become a mainstay in the Scotland team

I just think he hasn't kicked on as I expected / hoped he would

I stand by my opinion that he tries the same trick on taking the ball into contact too often now and that has been worked out on it.

Happy to disagree on what is an entirely moot point anyway as there is just no way anyone of us will ever know!

[where'stheslope]

Give him a big re-signing fee( £100,000 ) to extend his contract by 2 years. We will get that back later.


If he's as good as we all think he is, he could command that down south a week!!!!

[MWHIBBIES]

If he's as good as we all think he is, he could command that down south a week!!!!About half that at the most. Few clubs pay that and he isn't getting near them.

[brog]

Based on the Sam Clucas fee (more than the £12m Hull previously rejected from Swansea) I'd be holding out for £20m.
I'm pretty sure Sam is pinching himself having been at Chesterfield 2 years ago after being in non league before that. Competent player but not one that was overly talked about for Hull form from what I have read. He's hardly one signed for his potential when he's 27 next month either.

Jack Cork runs it close at alleged £10m.

I know, I know, we can't compare fees with down south........but these

fees - among others this summer - are staggering.

I've seen Sam Clucas live,at least I think I have. His performance was so staggeringly anonymous I really couldn't remember one contribution he made. IMO there's too many people talk down our game & our players in Scotland. SJM has all the ability to be a success in England, even at the top level. He was frustrating yesterday, gave away the ball more than I've ever seen but he still produced the pass of the match which should have resulted in a goal for us. John will go at some time but I doubt it will be in this window. One thing for sure, we'll have sell on clauses bolted on to ensure we get proper value when his true worth is realised.

[Bishop Hibee]

If McGinn was playing in England he'd be in the £10m plus category. As others have said, we shouldn't accept less than £3m for him. He's our best midfielder and I despair of fans on here talking our best players down. The same ones who are first to complain when the players they criticised leave and are replaced with inferior ones.

[Ronniekirk]

He isnt playing his best and Lennon hoping when Window Slams shut we will see the SJM on form So i expect him to stay

[jacomo]

No question the ball to Barker was a moment of real quality

Maybe I expect too much of SJM

18 months ago I thought he had the potential to become a mainstay in the Scotland team

I just think he hasn't kicked on as I expected / hoped he would

I stand by my opinion that he tries the same trick on taking the ball into contact too often now and that has been worked out on it.

Happy to disagree on what is an entirely moot point anyway as there is just no way anyone of us will ever know!


This may well be fair comment.

But you could also use this same argument to say that SJM really needs another season's development with us. He's up against cuter opponents now and no longer the stand out midfielder in the division - exactly what he needs.

[Captain Trips]

I've seen Sam Clucas live,at least I think I have. His performance was so staggeringly anonymous I really couldn't remember one contribution he made. IMO there's too many people talk down our game & our players in Scotland. SJM has all the ability to be a success in England, even at the top level. He was frustrating yesterday, gave away the ball more than I've ever seen but he still produced the pass of the match which should have resulted in a goal for us. John will go at some time but I doubt it will be in this window. One thing for sure, we'll have sell on clauses bolted on to ensure we get proper value when his true worth is realised.

I kind of agree Brog but it would be nice for us to actually be getting that value paid to us. I just think looking at players all over the place £5m for John McGinn IMO is insulting.

[flash]

I bet Celtic are in here behind the scenes.

[Billy Whizz]

I bet Celtic are in here behind the scenes.

Don't think they've ever been away, though I think they've got a lot of midfielders, don't think McGinn will want to go anywhere to sit on the bench

[flash]

Don't think they've ever been away, though I think they've got a lot of midfielders, don't think McGinn will want to go anywhere to sit on the bench

I think he would want to go alright and Celtic like signings like this. We shall see.

[Lee Marvin]

I bet Celtic are in here behind the scenes.

Outwith John signing a new deal, Celtic buying him and loaning him back to us for a year would potentially be the best outcome.

[neil7908]

Outwith John signing a new deal, Celtic buying him and loaning him back to us for a year would potentially be the best outcome.

I just can't see Celtic being interested. He's a cracking player but they have so many central midfields, I don't see him getting a look in.

[Stuart93]

I don't think Celtic would want him, he'd just be making the bench at Celtic and no more imo

Aye what the guy above said

[Kaff]

To put this into context Jackson Irvine is apparently moving from Burton to Hull for £2m. If that doesn't show how under valued players are from this league then there it is, a good decent SPL player but......

[Scouse Hibee]

To my knowledge they have made enquiries about him and with only one year left the bid would be low.

Jamie was asked about this today and had no knowledge of it. Same agent as Cummings and McKay is the reason I can think it has been suggested.

[MKHIBEE]

I've seen Sam Clucas live,at least I think I have. His performance was so staggeringly anonymous I really couldn't remember one contribution he made. IMO there's too many people talk down our game & our players in Scotland. SJM has all the ability to be a success in England, even at the top level. He was frustrating yesterday, gave away the ball more than I've ever seen but he still produced the pass of the match which should have resulted in a goal for us. John will go at some time but I doubt it will be in this window. One thing for sure, we'll have sell on clauses bolted on to ensure we get proper value when his true worth is realised.


For me Clucas hardly qualified as a lower league journeyman in England. Released by Lincoln then playing at Hereford and Mansfield it was hard to see him becoming a top flight player. Fair play to him however, he has made the most of his limited ability and succeeeded.

[Onion]

I don't think Celtic would want him, he'd just be making the bench at Celtic and no more imo

Aye what the guy above said

The Hun's sisters cannot resist stealing Scottish talent from the opposition and planking them on the bench- its what they do. Expect them to step in with a bid or two this week.

[Keyser Sauzee]

To put this into context Jackson Irvine is apparently moving from Burton to Hull for £2m. If that doesn't show how under valued players are from this league then there it is, a good decent SPL player but......

Tbf Irvine is a very good player, on a par with McGinn I'd say.

[3pm]

The Hun's sisters cannot resist stealing Scottish talent from the opposition and planking them on the bench- its what they do. Expect them to step in with a bid or two this week.

Listening to BBC Scotland earlier, suggestion was that Celtic now looking for players to improve the 1st eleven. Those in the first 11 would then be on the bench. McGinn won't improve their 1st eleven.

There are exceptions of course, guys likes Hayes.

[Kaff]

Tbf Irvine is a very good player, on a par with McGinn I'd say.

And I think McGinn is showing he's a good decent SPL player atm as was Irvine but the chat on message boards is that Hull would be getting a good deal at £2m while we're offered a third of that, it just shows there's a big difference on how they value players

[brog]

Tbf Irvine is a very good player, on a par with McGinn I'd say.

Irvine is a good player but IMO SJM is significantly ahead of him. The proposed Irvine transfer is a good example however. A minor English team, punching way above their weight sign a player from a minor Scottish club also punching way above their weight. To everyone in England's surprise Irvine finds playing against Rotherham, even Newcastle & Birmingham, easier than playing against Celtc & Aberdeen. Now his value has increased by about 700% in just over a year, hopefully Hibs take note.

[Gmack7]

IF he goes there must be large % sell on clause in the deal

[mjhibby]

IF he goes there must be large % sell on clause in the deal

Unless a bid of £3.5 to £4m is offered hibs will not consider it. What the magic hat was trying to achieve offering ridiculous bids I don't know but if it was to cheese off Nl he has succeeded. Jason went as the offered the fee that allowed Jason to speak to them. This has to be the most pointless thread on. Net for a long long time. I suppose it's been a dull end to the window so stories like this will surface. As for Kris Boyd. Dearie me.

[Firestarter]

Unless a bid of £3.5 to £4m is offered hibs will not consider it. What the magic hat was trying to achieve offering ridiculous bids I don't know but if it was to cheese off Nl he has succeeded. Jason went as the offered the fee that allowed Jason to speak to them. This has to be the most pointless thread on. Net for a long long time. I suppose it's been a dull end to the window so stories like this will surface. As for Kris Boyd. Dearie me.

I was confident he would stay but this post has coming back to haunt written all over it.

[Brightside]

Unless a bid of £3.5 to £4m is offered hibs will not consider it. What the magic hat was trying to achieve offering ridiculous bids I don't know but if it was to cheese off Nl he has succeeded. Jason went as the offered the fee that allowed Jason to speak to them. This has to be the most pointless thread on. Net for a long long time. I suppose it's been a dull end to the window so stories like this will surface. As for Kris Boyd. Dearie me.

He will go for a lot less than 3.5m

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

He will go for a lot less than 3.5m

But a lot more than £750k. I'd wager £2.25m unless he signs a contract extension and then has a blinder of a season.

[flash]

We would get more from Celtic than any club down south.

[Golden Bear]

Looks like the breadman is still hovering. Sit tight guys.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41079722

[Mr Grieves]

Gutted if he leaves but it would be agood move for him. I just hope we've got another central midfielder lined up, otherwise we'll be short of options

[Iceman1875]

Normally, id prefer our best player to go south if his intentions are to move on however, Celtic may be the best move for us.

They like the player, paid £4.4m 10 years ago for a player at the same level in his career, can offer Liam Henderson along with the deal and potentially have money to burn with £10-12m in their pocket from the Van Dijk sale to Liverpool.

If we got £2.5-3m plus Henderson that would be a good deal IMO for us. Not sure about SJM as he will almost certainly not be a first team pick.


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[Keith_M]

Normally, id prefer our best player to go south if his intentions are to move on however, Celtic may be the best move for us.

They like the player, paid £4.4m 10 years ago for a player at the same level in his career, can offer Liam Henderson along with the deal and potentially have money to burn with £10-12m in their pocket from the Van Dijk sale to Liverpool.

If we got £2.5-3m plus Henderson that would be a good deal IMO for us. Not sure about SJM as he will almost certainly not be a first team pick.





Celtc will probably offer him 5 times the salary he currently gets at Hibs, so I don't think the prospect of sitting on the bench would put him off signing for them.

[Iceman1875]

Celtc will probably offer him 5 times the salary he currently gets at Hibs, so I don't think the prospect of sitting on the bench would put him off signing for them.

I agree, but I was referring to game time.


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[IWasThere2016]

He will go for a lot less than 3.5m

Indeed.

I'm really surprised he's still here.

Post Riordan, Murray etc. Hibs don't allow players of any substantial value to run their contracts and neither should we.

I would sell.

[brog]

Looks like the breadman is still hovering. Sit tight guys.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41079722

That quote is from the DR, I wouldn't pay too much attention to it. I doubt we'll sell John for less than £2m. That means Forest, who are only club mentioned at the moment, will have to up their bid by 167%. I doubt that will happen also. Bit of a cheek really from the Fanny given he paid Sevco £1m years ago for Lewis MacLeod! My only concern is that Forest's interest will attract other clubs who may pay a more realistic fee. Conversely I think NL was so p----d off by Boyd's nonsense on Sunday that he'll be even more determined to hold on to John.

[scoopyboy]

And I think McGinn is showing he's a good decent SPL player atm as was Irvine but the chat on message boards is that Hull would be getting a good deal at £2m while we're offered a third of that, it just shows there's a big difference on how they value players

Agree to an extent, but you are not comparing like with like.

Hull have got the player at £2m.

Hibs have not sold at £750,000.

How do you know that Hull's first bid wasn't £750,000?

Until Hibs sell for a figure that is made available it is a pointless comparison.

[Jim44]

Looks like the breadman is still hovering. Sit tight guys.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41079722

If they're going to make a realistic bid, I hope they pull the finger out and make it pronto. Stuff this last minute nonsense. Mind you, if £750K is their base point, I don't think they'll come up with an acceptable offer.

[Borderhibbie76]

Looks like the breadman is still hovering. Sit tight guys.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41079722The Daily Ranger...il take that with a pinch o salt thanks

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[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Indeed.

I'm really surprised he's still here.

Post Riordan, Murray etc. Hibs don't allow players of any substantial value to run their contracts and neither should we.

I would sell.

I know what you are saying, and you are right.

But i eould rather we just had a policy of keeping players until the final year before expiry, amd then we sell them. We dont need huhe transfer fees ad much as we did in the past, and we need to keep good players.

Im qyite relaxed though, i habe faith in the decision making at the club and so if we sell, im comfortable it will be for our best interests.

On the face of it though, 750k is insulting, and i would say that as we are not desperate, we should only start seriously listening if its above £2m up front, with significant add ons. Why should we let them steal our players cut price - why are we allowing transfer fees to deflate in scotland when english clubs have more cash than ever?

[Captain Trips]

So Forest sell Assambalonga for £15m and come up here get JC for? and look to get Mcginn for 750k. Is this a genuine piss take up here?

Assambalonga not saying he isn't worth it but Notts bring in a young striker in JC with potential and a current international midfielder and not even spend 1/4 of the Assambalonga fee.

Sorry but thats a piece of nonsense. Should be told that is insult and not to rebid again.

[NAE NOOKIE]

IMO Hibs should be a hell of a lot more belligerent when it comes to situations like this ..... £750,000 is nothing short of an insult in the market clubs like Nottingham Forest operate in. I don't care if SJM isn't playing in England, Forest know damn fine that if they were looking to buy a player of similar ability and potential from 'any' English club an offer like that would make them a laughing stock.

Most Scottish clubs wont get into a public debate about their players being undervalued like this because they are living hand to mouth and don't want to rock the boat to the extent where they lose the chance to get in money they might desperately need, even if it is considerably less than what they think ( what they know ) their player should be worth.

Hibs are not in the same position as many other Scottish clubs .... we are financially stable and don't need to sell, even though like 99.9% of clubs in the world we will sell if the money is right .... In view of that we would be doing ourselves and the whole of Scottish football a huge favour if we angrily and very publicly called Nottingham Forest out on this.
Forest and clubs like them are nothing short of 'carpetbaggers' and its been going on for far too long. We could fire the opening salvo by making a bid of £100,000 for Forests best player ( whoever that is ) and when they laugh it off express faux surprise because we were given the impression by them that massively undervaluing players was acceptable.

Some context:
According to Wikipedia Sporting Lisbon are rumoured to have paid Dundee Utd £3,000,000 for Ryan Gauld in 2014 ..... a guy who had had half a decent season. Ironically Forest themselves sold Oliver Burke to RB Leipzig last year for a reported £13,000,000 a guy who had only played 25 first team games for them and was so rated at the City Ground that he was actually out on loan to Bradford City when the Leipzig offer was accepted.

No .. these English clubs are taking the piss, we know it, they know it and its time a Scottish club made the issue very very public ... I live for the day Hibs become that club .... screw the diplomatic language and muttered annoyance at laughable offers, its time we called them for what they are in public .... spivs, chancers and bloody carpetbaggers !!!

[Captain Trips]

IMO Hibs should be a hell of a lot more belligerent when it comes to situations like this ..... £750,000 is nothing short of an insult in the market clubs like Nottingham Forest operate in. I don't care if SJM isn't playing in England, Forest know damn fine that if they were looking to buy a player of similar ability and potential from 'any' English club an offer like that would make them a laughing stock.

Most Scottish clubs wont get into a public debate about their players being undervalued like this because they are living hand to mouth and don't want to rock the boat to the extent where they lose the chance to get in money they might desperately need, even if it is considerably less than what they think ( what they know ) their player should be worth.

Hibs are not in the same position as many other Scottish clubs .... we are financially stable and don't need to sell, even though like 99.9% of clubs in the world we will sell if the money is right .... In view of that we would be doing ourselves and the whole of Scottish football a huge favour if we angrily and very publicly called Nottingham Forest out on this.
Forest and clubs like them are nothing short of 'carpetbaggers' and its been going on for far too long. We could fire the opening salvo by making a bid of £100,000 for Forests best player ( whoever that is ) and when they laugh it off express faux surprise because we were given the impression by them that massively undervaluing players was acceptable.

Some context:
According to Wikipedia Sporting Lisbon are rumoured to have paid Dundee Utd £3,000,000 for Ryan Gauld in 2014 ..... a guy who had had half a decent season. Ironically Forest themselves sold Oliver Burke to RB Leipzig last year for a reported £13,000,000 a guy who had only played 25 first team games for them and was so rated at the City Ground that he was actually out on loan to Bradford City when the Leipzig offer was accepted.

No .. these English clubs are taking the piss, we know it, they know it and its time a Scottish club made the issue very very public ... I live for the day Hibs become that club .... screw the diplomatic language and muttered annoyance at laughable offers, its time we called them for what they are in public .... spivs, chancers and bloody carpetbaggers !!!

Here here, not saying SJM is worth 10,15m but neither are lots of folk who go for that why the can we not get overpaid up here for once.

[007]

IMO Hibs should be a hell of a lot more belligerent when it comes to situations like this ..... £750,000 is nothing short of an insult in the market clubs like Nottingham Forest operate in. I don't care if SJM isn't playing in England, Forest know damn fine that if they were looking to buy a player of similar ability and potential from 'any' English club an offer like that would make them a laughing stock.

Most Scottish clubs wont get into a public debate about their players being undervalued like this because they are living hand to mouth and don't want to rock the boat to the extent where they lose the chance to get in money they might desperately need, even if it is considerably less than what they think ( what they know ) their player should be worth.

Hibs are not in the same position as many other Scottish clubs .... we are financially stable and don't need to sell, even though like 99.9% of clubs in the world we will sell if the money is right .... In view of that we would be doing ourselves and the whole of Scottish football a huge favour if we angrily and very publicly called Nottingham Forest out on this.
Forest and clubs like them are nothing short of 'carpetbaggers' and its been going on for far too long. We could fire the opening salvo by making a bid of £100,000 for Forests best player ( whoever that is ) and when they laugh it off express faux surprise because we were given the impression by them that massively undervaluing players was acceptable.

Some context:
According to Wikipedia Sporting Lisbon are rumoured to have paid Dundee Utd £3,000,000 for Ryan Gauld in 2014 ..... a guy who had had half a decent season. Ironically Forest themselves sold Oliver Burke to RB Leipzig last year for a reported £13,000,000 a guy who had only played 25 first team games for them and was so rated at the City Ground that he was actually out on loan to Bradford City when the Leipzig offer was accepted.

No .. these English clubs are taking the piss, we know it, they know it and its time a Scottish club made the issue very very public ... I live for the day Hibs become that club .... screw the diplomatic language and muttered annoyance at laughable offers, its time we called them for what they are in public .... spivs, chancers and bloody carpetbaggers !!!

There's a young lad with a good goals per minute ratio we should put in a low offer for. Jason Cummings I think his name is. Maybe him plus £4m for McGinn.

[Danderhall Hibs]

What did Kris Boyd do wrong?

[Kaff]

Agree to an extent, but you are not comparing like with like.

Hull have got the player at £2m.

Hibs have not sold at £750,000.

How do you know that Hull's first bid wasn't £750,000?

Until Hibs sell for a figure that is made available it is a pointless comparison.

That's fairly obvious points to make but I was just bringing the Irvine transfer to the conversation given his age and playing history are very comparable. I think the unknown figures surrounding the JC transfer and the same club make a few of concerned regarding the potential sale of JMc

[KeithTheHibby]

Personally don't think McGinn will move this window. My gut feeling is that he will sign a new long-term deal with Hibs and more than likely to move on next summer, similar to JC situation.
A good season in the SPL for McGinn will see his stock rise further and attract much better teams than Forest - this is how Hibs will be selling it to him.

I don't think SJM is that silly to move to the first club that shows any interest in him. Remember this is a lad who 2 years ago left a relegated St Mirren to join a championship team in Hibs when I would imagine he could have stayed in the top league on better money.

Being a betting man I would say he will do the smart option, sign a new improved deal and then leave next summer.

[Firestarter]

What did Kris Boyd do wrong?

Said that Sunday was was McGinns last game for us as he's pals with a David weir

[silverhibee]

What did Kris Boyd do wrong?


Nothing, if Lennon is going to have a go at Boyd then why did he not have a go at Sutton for talking about a transfer deal before a live game, also a bit rich from Lennon talking about Warburton unsettling McGinn before a game when Lennon has done it himself while Celtc manager and never had a problem while at Celtc about unsettling players who would be playing against them that week.

Will i need a tin hat. :greengrin

[SirDavidsNapper]

If Forest stump up then fair play. Every player has his price and we luckily don't rely on John McGinn. I think £2m+ is a realistic price for an international player and double cup winner.

[madhatter]

If Forest stump up then fair play. Every player has his price and we luckily don't rely on John McGinn. I think £2m+ is a realistic price for an international player and double cup winner.

In the current market with approx £135m spent on a 20 year old who had a decent season at Dortmund...and one of whom can't even do keepy uppies...I honestly think £4m should be the least Hibs should be looking for. Gauld is rumoured to have went for £3m and wasn't even a full internationalist!

Our league is possibly one the most disrespected in Europe. Even Celtic suffer cheap dealings. How is Van Dijk suddenly a £81m defender? Who makes these prices up?

[MWHIBBIES]

In the current market with approx £135m spent on a 20 year old who had a decent season at Dortmund...and one of whom can't even do keepy uppies...I honestly think £4m should be the least Hibs should be looking for. Gauld is rumoured to have went for £3m and wasn't even a full internationalist!

Our league is possibly one the most disrespected in Europe. Even Celtic suffer cheap dealings. How is Van Dijk suddenly a £81m defender? Who makes these prices up?
He is on a long contract at Southampton and Liverpool desperately need him. That makes him worth that money.

[madhatter]

He is on a long contract at Southampton and Liverpool desperately need him. That makes him worth that money.

We have McGinn for 2 years more. Are Forest not desperate for him? if they aren't I'd advise McGinn not to go near them for the sake of his career. £4m is minimum for me even if half is in installments.

Did Chelsea not spend £10m on a Brazilian youngster? Did they not pay £5m for Tom Taiwo?

Scottish football seems to be the only market in the world that the buyer has the power.

[MWHIBBIES]

We have McGinn for 2 years more. Are Forest not desperate for him? if they aren't I'd advise McGinn not to go near them for the sake of his career. £4m is minimum for me even if half is in installments.

2 years is nothing though, in 16 months he can sign elswhere for free. If McGinn goes to Forest and does well he'll be in the top league soon, it would be a good for him and if he wants to go he probably will go. He is worth what Hibs/Forest decide he is worth, not what Hibs fans think he is worth.

What x club spent on x player years ago has no bearing on the deal at all, totally irrelevant.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Said that Sunday was was McGinns last game for us as he's pals with a David weir

I see - suppose we'll see if he was right this week. I thought he'd just broken an exclusive.

[IWasThere2016]

I know what you are saying, and you are right.

But i eould rather we just had a policy of keeping players until the final year before expiry, amd then we sell them. We dont need huhe transfer fees ad much as we did in the past, and we need to keep good players.

Im qyite relaxed though, i habe faith in the decision making at the club and so if we sell, im comfortable it will be for our best interests.

On the face of it though, 750k is insulting, and i would say that as we are not desperate, we should only start seriously listening if its above £2m up front, with significant add ons. Why should we let them steal our players cut price - why are we allowing transfer fees to deflate in scotland when english clubs have more cash than ever?

If we are planning to sell, he's only worth what someone is prepared to pay.

[brog]

Nothing, if Lennon is going to have a go at Boyd then why did he not have a go at Sutton for talking about a transfer deal before a live game, also a bit rich from Lennon talking about Warburton unsettling McGinn before a game when Lennon has done it himself while Celtc manager and never had a problem while at Celtc about unsettling players who would be playing against them that week.


Will i need a tin hat. :greengrin

Theres a big difference Silver. Sutton is an ex player & full time pundit whose job is to talk about all things football. Kris Boyd is a current player for one of our rivals. He has no business stating we will sell a player this week particularly when he's being used as a patsy by the erstwhile buyers.

[Tornadoes70]

If we are planning to sell, he's only worth what someone is prepared to pay.

That's very true however if potential suitors don't match or come near our valuation then SJM will gladly be part of our club for the next two years. Why let him go cheaply well below our own valuation? The answer is we shouldn't and won't and hopefully SJM is too classy to do a Scott Allan.

[silverhibee]

Theres a big difference Silver. Sutton is an ex player & full time pundit whose job is to talk about all things football. Kris Boyd is a current player for one of our rivals. He has no business stating we will sell a player this week particularly when he's being used as a patsy by the erstwhile buyers.

Killie have obviously agreed something with Sky for Boyd to be a pundit as well now, him & Commons have there wee programme each week where they talk about what's happening in Scottish football and now pundits for live games as well, I'm not sure Boyd is breaking any rules here, he heard something and mentioned it before the game on Sunday, probably the only thing he shouldn't have said was that this would be McGinns last game in a Hibs top as he can't be 100% about that, but he was right that Forrest had made a bid for McGinn and he should have left it at that.

No different to what Sutton said or Hartson wrote about the Board backing Lennon.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

If we are planning to sell, he's only worth what someone is prepared to pay.

True, but unless we are actively trying to punt him, he is worth what they are prepared to pay, and what we are prepared to sell for.

[truehibernian]

Killie have obviously agreed something with Sky for Boyd to be a pundit as well now, him & Commons have there wee programme each week where they talk about what's happening in Scottish football and now pundits for live games as well, I'm not sure Boyd is breaking any rules here, he heard something and mentioned it before the game on Sunday, probably the only thing he shouldn't have said was that this would be McGinns last game in a Hibs top as he can't be 100% about that, but he was right that Forrest had made a bid for McGinn and he should have left it at that.

No different to what Sutton said or Hartson wrote about the Board backing Lennon.

He's also been laying it on thick how he thinks Levein is a good appointment - maybe 'cos of the abuse he got at Tynie last season :greengrin

I've no qualms about Boyd saying what he said SH, to be honest if we keep SJM this season I'll be very surprised. I still maintain Celtic will have a big say in any transfer and he'll be eyed up as a Scott Brown replacement. As I said couple of days ago, I found the Ali Crawford speculation in the media rather well timed too :cb

[IWasThere2016]

True, but unless we are actively trying to punt him, he is worth what they are prepared to pay, and what we are prepared to sell for.

That's what "If we are planning to sell" means :wink:

[madhatter]

2 years is nothing though, in 16 months he can sign elswhere for free. If McGinn goes to Forest and does well he'll be in the top league soon, it would be a good for him and if he wants to go he probably will go. He is worth what Hibs/Forest decide he is worth, not what Hibs fans think he is worth.

What x club spent on x player years ago has no bearing on the deal at all, totally irrelevant.

Dembele was signed for £135m this year. Hibs Manager valued McGinn at £5m, not fans. 2 years in football is actually quite a long time - Forest could have been relegated twice in that time and be in administration. McGinn could get a career ending injury in that time. McGinn could help us get far in Europa League and Man Utd could be interested then.

[Lancs Harp]

Dembele was signed for £135m this year. Hibs Manager valued McGinn at £5m, not fans. 2 years in football is actually quite a long time - Forest could have been relegated twice in that time and be in administration. McGinn could get a career ending injury in that time. McGinn could help us get far in Europa League and Man Utd could be interested then.

Two years is a very long time in football. Hearts might have finished their stand.

[HoboHarry]

Two years is a very long time in football. Hearts might have finished their stand.
Bwahahahaha.... lol........ aye right......

:greengrin

[JohnMcM]

Two years is a very long time in football. Hearts might have finished their stand.

By jove old chap! That is brilliant. Close to being one of the funniest posts so far about that particular subject.

[brog]

Killie have obviously agreed something with Sky for Boyd to be a pundit as well now, him & Commons have there wee programme each week where they talk about what's happening in Scottish football and now pundits for live games as well, I'm not sure Boyd is breaking any rules here, he heard something and mentioned it before the game on Sunday, probably the only thing he shouldn't have said was that this would be McGinns last game in a Hibs top as he can't be 100% about that, but he was right that Forrest had made a bid for McGinn and he should have left it at that.

No different to what Sutton said or Hartson wrote about the Board backing Lennon.

I pretty much agree with that. It was the end of the week comment which p-d me & I'm sure NL off. I

[Brightside]

We have McGinn for 2 years more. Are Forest not desperate for him? if they aren't I'd advise McGinn not to go near them for the sake of his career. £4m is minimum for me even if half is in installments.

Did Chelsea not spend £10m on a Brazilian youngster? Did they not pay £5m for Tom Taiwo?

Scottish football seems to be the only market in the world that the buyer has the power.

Scottish football is up there with Lithuania tbh.

[Mibbes Aye]

In the current market with approx £135m spent on a 20 year old who had a decent season at Dortmund...and one of whom can't even do keepy uppies...I honestly think £4m should be the least Hibs should be looking for. Gauld is rumoured to have went for £3m and wasn't even a full internationalist!

Our league is possibly one the most disrespected in Europe. Even Celtic suffer cheap dealings. How is Van Dijk suddenly a £81m defender? Who makes these prices up?


He is on a long contract at Southampton and Liverpool desperately need him. That makes him worth that money.

:agree:

Comparisons are irrelevant, but...

No one is really desperate for McGinn. Lots of clubs would like him as he would improve their side but no one actually desperately needs him.

Liverpool however very much need to strengthen in defence. Van Dijk has been playing well and has experience in the EPL, the Champions' League and at international level, plus he's still relatively young and on a lengthy contract. There's a whole bunch of multipliers there, that bump up his notional value.

Plus the reality is that there's a hierarchy and if a top six English club want a player, then they will pay a Southampton more than they will pay a Celtc.

It's no different for us, on a lower level. We would pay more to sign a player from Motherwell than we would to a lower league side or a Northern Irish side.

[Gmack7]

Sone Aluko on the move for 7.5million. incredible money for him.

[Elephant Stone]

Two years is a very long time in football. Hearts might have finished their stand.

Hope so, it will be even more disgusting when it's done

[Bristolhibby]

We have McGinn for 2 years more. Are Forest not desperate for him? if they aren't I'd advise McGinn not to go near them for the sake of his career. £4m is minimum for me even if half is in installments.

Did Chelsea not spend £10m on a Brazilian youngster? Did they not pay £5m for Tom Taiwo?

Scottish football seems to be the only market in the world that the buyer has the power.

If we (Scottish clubs) keep selling players for a pittance, that's all that will be offered. Unfortunately players heads are turned with the offer of earning 5 times their salary, and we can't compete with that.

J

[Deansy]

Unless a bid of £3.5 to £4m is offered hibs will not consider it. What the magic hat was trying to achieve offering ridiculous bids I don't know but if it was to cheese off Nl he has succeeded. Jason went as the offered the fee that allowed Jason to speak to them. This has to be the most pointless thread on. Net for a long long time. I suppose it's been a dull end to the window so stories like this will surface. As for Kris Boyd. Dearie me.

Remember, the hat has a claim against the Hun for compensation for his time with them - wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if this has got something to do with it. Unsettle the star-player of a team who're a major threat to them (having recently gubbed them 2-3 at home !) with a bid that has no chance of being anywhere near acceptable and they'll settle his claim ??. The Huns plus an ex-city trader ? - that's a combination of dishonesty, double-dealing and outright fraud !

[MWHIBBIES]

Dembele was signed for £135m this year. Hibs Manager valued McGinn at £5m, not fans. 2 years in football is actually quite a long time - Forest could have been relegated twice in that time and be in administration. McGinn could get a career ending injury in that time. McGinn could help us get far in Europa League and Man Utd could be interested then.

Okay, but back to reality now...


Forest would be a good move for McGinn and he would go with my best wishes. If Hibs want 5m then good, I would love it if we got 5m for him, we have clever people at our club who could do great things with that money.

[MWHIBBIES]

Remember, the hat has a claim against the Hun for compensation for his time with them - wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if this has got something to do with it. Unsettle the star-player of a team who're a major threat to them (having recently gubbed them 2-3 at home !) with a bid that has no chance of being anywhere near acceptable and they'll settle his claim ??. The Huns plus an ex-city trader ? - that's a combination of dishonesty, double-dealing and outright fraud !Interesting theory there. Probably more likely that Forest want to sign McGinn and offered low to see if Hibs would reveal their hand.

[Bishop Hibee]

Sone Aluko on the move for 7.5million. incredible money for him.

7 times the player McGinn is apparently �� Aluko did nothing in his time in Scotland to suggest he was worth more than £1.5m tops.

[madhatter]

:agree:

Comparisons are irrelevant, but...

No one is really desperate for McGinn. Lots of clubs would like him as he would improve their side but no one actually desperately needs him.

Liverpool however very much need to strengthen in defence. Van Dijk has been playing well and has experience in the EPL, the Champions' League and at international level, plus he's still relatively young and on a lengthy contract. There's a whole bunch of multipliers there, that bump up his notional value.

Plus the reality is that there's a hierarchy and if a top six English club want a player, then they will pay a Southampton more than they will pay a Celtc.

It's no different for us, on a lower level. We would pay more to sign a player from Motherwell than we would to a lower league side or a Northern Irish side.

How much did Man City pay for Stones? How much did Man City pay for Mangala? How much did Arsenal pay for Mustafi? How much did Arsenal pay for Xhaka?

Many clubs have got a lot of money for distinctly average signings. "Need" for signings is overhyped in that league. Man City and Chelsea have about 30+ "senior" players. They still refer to 22 year olds down there as "youngsters" because home grown has little chance.

Liverpool thump Arsenal 4-0 and have 2 internationalist CB but "need" to spend £81m on a defender? Not having that, sorry. Its coming for a collapse shortly because in a time of recession the transfer records have been smashed year on year. At the same time as everyone being poorer off, a 20 year old that kicks a ball is worth £135m.

Excluding top 2-3 leagues, all other leagues get treated with gross disrespect. McGinn will leave and if he continues to develop even a little he'll suddenly be worth £20m+. Players not even playing gain worth in that league - what a notion that is...

[SRHibs]

If we (Scottish clubs) keep selling players for a pittance, that's all that will be offered. Unfortunately players heads are turned with the offer of earning 5 times their salary, and we can't compete with that.

J

Unfortunately, if we aren't compensating the players with higher salaries, then we don't really have the right to ask for transfer fees comparable to championship/league one players.

[calumhibee1]

Unfortunately, if we aren't compensating the players with higher salaries, then we don't really have the right to ask for transfer fees comparable to championship/league one players.

We've got the right to do whatever we want. We are the Hibees, we do what we want.

[madhatter]

Unfortunately, if we aren't compensating the players with higher salaries, then we don't really have the right to ask for transfer fees comparable to championship/league one players.

How do you suggest we compensate these players with £5m TV money shared between all teams or whatever it is, compared to approx £100m per EPL team plus £20m per championship or whatever that is?

Bournemouth get lower attendance than us but are in EPL. TV money is a great thing.

If we continually under value our own game, its only going in one direction and that is down. Our game doesnt get better and stronger if we sell cheap. We don't get more TV money unless standard improves but it won't because we sell all our talent for pennies and generally buy for less to balance books. Systematic destruction of Scottish football.

[Jim44]

Unfortunately, if we aren't compensating the players with higher salaries, then we don't really have the right to ask for transfer fees comparable to championship/league one players.

It's still a nonsense to gauge a player's ability by the wage he earns.

[WhileTheChief..]

I guess we should have paid St Mirren about £3M and McGinn's wages of around £50k a week if we're looking to get zillions for selling him on?

We can't really expect to sell for these massive prices if we're not paying accordingly.

[Mibbes Aye]

How much did Man City pay for Stones? How much did Man City pay for Mangala? How much did Arsenal pay for Mustafi? How much did Arsenal pay for Xhaka?

Many clubs have got a lot of money for distinctly average signings. "Need" for signings is overhyped in that league. Man City and Chelsea have about 30+ "senior" players. They still refer to 22 year olds down there as "youngsters" because home grown has little chance.

Liverpool thump Arsenal 4-0 and have 2 internationalist CB but "need" to spend £81m on a defender? Not having that, sorry. Its coming for a collapse shortly because in a time of recession the transfer records have been smashed year on year. At the same time as everyone being poorer off, a 20 year old that kicks a ball is worth £135m.

Excluding top 2-3 leagues, all other leagues get treated with gross disrespect. McGinn will leave and if he continues to develop even a little he'll suddenly be worth £20m+. Players not even playing gain worth in that league - what a notion that is...

That may be true, though I've been hearing that for more years than I care to remember.

The point is it's a market and it follows market rules about supply and demand, about scarcity and value. The amount of money in the game means that at the top end, those values have got inflated to the level they have.

A long time ago, maybe on this thread or maybe another, someone mentioned Gianluigi Lentini, who set the transfer record in the early nineties for something like £13m. It was seen as ridiculous, obscene, unsustainable, pick your adjective. As it transpired, his career never really came to much.

Fast forward twenty-five years and the transfer record is ten times that. In ten years time there's every chance it will be £500m and people will be saying it's ridiculous, obscene, unsustainable, pick your adjective.

It is what it is. If the money wasn't there, the prices and bids would be lower. But the money is there, so everything seems grossly inflated.

[HoboHarry]

How much did Man City pay for Stones? How much did Man City pay for Mangala? How much did Arsenal pay for Mustafi? How much did Arsenal pay for Xhaka?

Many clubs have got a lot of money for distinctly average signings. "Need" for signings is overhyped in that league. Man City and Chelsea have about 30+ "senior" players. They still refer to 22 year olds down there as "youngsters" because home grown has little chance.

Liverpool thump Arsenal 4-0 and have 2 internationalist CB but "need" to spend £81m on a defender? Not having that, sorry. Its coming for a collapse shortly because in a time of recession the transfer records have been smashed year on year. At the same time as everyone being poorer off, a 20 year old that kicks a ball is worth £135m.

Excluding top 2-3 leagues, all other leagues get treated with gross disrespect. McGinn will leave and if he continues to develop even a little he'll suddenly be worth £20m+. Players not even playing gain worth in that league - what a notion that is...
If McGinn ever was sold on for 20M it would likely benefit Hibs. You just know that RP will have a sell on clause in there.

[madhatter]

I guess we should have paid St Mirren about £3M and McGinn's wages of around £50k a week if we're looking to get zillions for selling him on?

We can't really expect to sell for these massive prices if we're not paying accordingly.

By that logic, Dortmund must have been paying Dembele a hefty hefty wage. Hibs should accept £1m for full internationalist and give 30% to St Mirren and be happy?

[SRHibs]

It's still a nonsense to gauge a player's ability by the wage he earns.

It's not gauging ability it's their monetary value. You're also buying out someone's contract, so if someone is on 20k a week it stands to reason that they'll be worth more than the player on 1.5k. Doesn't mean ability wise that they're not on an equal footing, but thems the breaks when you're a Scottish football team.

[Heisenberg]

We'll probably deal at between 2-3 million. No chance we get near 5 mill for him unfortunately. Doubt Forest will get near what we want anyway tbh.

[Captain Trips]

I guess we should have paid St Mirren about £3M and McGinn's wages of around £50k a week if we're looking to get zillions for selling him on?

We can't really expect to sell for these massive prices if we're not paying accordingly.

Well this what Willie McKay said about Brown & Thomson that we had no business asking for a few million as we were not paying them well enough to demand that. I thought it nonsense then and I still find it nonsense today. Going by that logic we would have been lucky to get £1m for the pair.

[ancient hibee]

I guess we should have paid St Mirren about £3M and McGinn's wages of around £50k a week if we're looking to get zillions for selling him on?

We can't really expect to sell for these massive prices if we're not paying accordingly.

Don't follow that at all.They want something we have then they pay the going rate.

[stu in nottingham]

IMO Hibs should be a hell of a lot more belligerent when it comes to situations like this ..... £750,000 is nothing short of an insult in the market clubs like Nottingham Forest operate in. I don't care if SJM isn't playing in England, Forest know damn fine that if they were looking to buy a player of similar ability and potential from 'any' English club an offer like that would make them a laughing stock.

Most Scottish clubs wont get into a public debate about their players being undervalued like this because they are living hand to mouth and don't want to rock the boat to the extent where they lose the chance to get in money they might desperately need, even if it is considerably less than what they think ( what they know ) their player should be worth.

Hibs are not in the same position as many other Scottish clubs .... we are financially stable and don't need to sell, even though like 99.9% of clubs in the world we will sell if the money is right .... In view of that we would be doing ourselves and the whole of Scottish football a huge favour if we angrily and very publicly called Nottingham Forest out on this.
Forest and clubs like them are nothing short of 'carpetbaggers' and its been going on for far too long. We could fire the opening salvo by making a bid of £100,000 for Forests best player ( whoever that is ) and when they laugh it off express faux surprise because we were given the impression by them that massively undervaluing players was acceptable.

Some context:
According to Wikipedia Sporting Lisbon are rumoured to have paid Dundee Utd £3,000,000 for Ryan Gauld in 2014 ..... a guy who had had half a decent season. Ironically Forest themselves sold Oliver Burke to RB Leipzig last year for a reported £13,000,000 a guy who had only played 25 first team games for them and was so rated at the City Ground that he was actually out on loan to Bradford City when the Leipzig offer was accepted.

No .. these English clubs are taking the piss, we know it, they know it and its time a Scottish club made the issue very very public ... I live for the day Hibs become that club .... screw the diplomatic language and muttered annoyance at laughable offers, its time we called them for what they are in public .... spivs, chancers and bloody carpetbaggers !!!

Hear hear, what a great post.

I would absolutely love Hibs to put in a bid of £100,00 for Forest's highly rated young forward Ben Brereton.

Unfortunately too while they have such a bawbag of a manager things will only get worse regarding their arrogance.

[OsloHibs]

I'll be very surprised if we still have him next week. But will be very happy if we do!

[MWHIBBIES]

IMO Hibs should be a hell of a lot more belligerent when it comes to situations like this ..... £750,000 is nothing short of an insult in the market clubs like Nottingham Forest operate in. I don't care if SJM isn't playing in England, Forest know damn fine that if they were looking to buy a player of similar ability and potential from 'any' English club an offer like that would make them a laughing stock.

Most Scottish clubs wont get into a public debate about their players being undervalued like this because they are living hand to mouth and don't want to rock the boat to the extent where they lose the chance to get in money they might desperately need, even if it is considerably less than what they think ( what they know ) their player should be worth.

Hibs are not in the same position as many other Scottish clubs .... we are financially stable and don't need to sell, even though like 99.9% of clubs in the world we will sell if the money is right .... In view of that we would be doing ourselves and the whole of Scottish football a huge favour if we angrily and very publicly called Nottingham Forest out on this.
Forest and clubs like them are nothing short of 'carpetbaggers' and its been going on for far too long. We could fire the opening salvo by making a bid of £100,000 for Forests best player ( whoever that is ) and when they laugh it off express faux surprise because we were given the impression by them that massively undervaluing players was acceptable.

Some context:
According to Wikipedia Sporting Lisbon are rumoured to have paid Dundee Utd £3,000,000 for Ryan Gauld in 2014 ..... a guy who had had half a decent season. Ironically Forest themselves sold Oliver Burke to RB Leipzig last year for a reported £13,000,000 a guy who had only played 25 first team games for them and was so rated at the City Ground that he was actually out on loan to Bradford City when the Leipzig offer was accepted.

No .. these English clubs are taking the piss, we know it, they know it and its time a Scottish club made the issue very very public ... I live for the day Hibs become that club .... screw the diplomatic language and muttered annoyance at laughable offers, its time we called them for what they are in public .... spivs, chancers and bloody carpetbaggers !!!No he wasn't. He was the first name on the Forest team sheet and scored for them a few days prior to leaving.

Hibs will always be a selling club, we'll get the best price we can and we'll replace as best we can.

[Malthibby]

That may be true, though I've been hearing that for more years than I care to remember.

The point is it's a market and it follows market rules about supply and demand, about scarcity and value. The amount of money in the game means that at the top end, those values have got inflated to the level they have.

A long time ago, maybe on this thread or maybe another, someone mentioned Gianluigi Lentini, who set the transfer record in the early nineties for something like £13m. It was seen as ridiculous, obscene, unsustainable, pick your adjective. As it transpired, his career never really came to much.

Fast forward twenty-five years and the transfer record is ten times that. In ten years time there's every chance it will be £500m and people will be saying it's ridiculous, obscene, unsustainable, pick your adjective.

It is what it is. If the money wasn't there, the prices and bids would be lower. But the money is there, so everything seems grossly inflated.

Capitalism.
Come the revolution...........
GG

[calumhibee1]

I guess we should have paid St Mirren about £3M and McGinn's wages of around £50k a week if we're looking to get zillions for selling him on?

We can't really expect to sell for these massive prices if we're not paying accordingly.

Why can't we? We absolutely do not need to sell our best player. We can expect to sell for whatever it is we want to sell him for. If nobody pays that then so be it, we get to keep a top class player. No skin off our nose. And if nobody pays it in January then again, we keep him. I'd much rather he ran down his contract than Hibs come out with just over a million once St Mirren have had their cut.

[Speedy]

I guess we should have paid St Mirren about £3M and McGinn's wages of around £50k a week if we're looking to get zillions for selling him on?

We can't really expect to sell for these massive prices if we're not paying accordingly.

Why not? Forest seem to think they can, Celtic have done in the past etc. etc.

If St Mirren held out for £3m there wouldn't have been anything we could do to stop them.

[where'stheslope]

Price is deemed to what a club is prepared to pay for an in contract player.

So most on here think Scotland to England midfielder McGinn is worth £3-5 million.

Yet Scott Sinclair went England to Scotland for £4.5 million.

Not wanting to sound crazy but which would you really want????

[brog]

I guess we should have paid St Mirren about £3M and McGinn's wages of around £50k a week if we're looking to get zillions for selling him on?

We can't really expect to sell for these massive prices if we're not paying accordingly.

The amount we're looking to get is about the amount you suggest we should have paid St M. That really makes sense! As for £50k a week he won't be getting anywhere near that regardless of where he goes. We've developed John to the point that he's now a regular selection for Scotland squads, that should be reflected in his price. I suppose Mansfield, Chesterfield & Hull should have been paying Sam Clucas £50k a week because he's now joined Swansea for squillions.

[Colr]

Don't follow that at all.They want something we have then they pay the going rate.

There tons of money sloshing around in the English game. What else are they gling to spend it on? Not reducing costs for fans like they do in Germany!

[brog]

Price is deemed to what a club is prepared to pay for an in contract player.

So most on here think Scotland to England midfielder McGinn is worth £3-5 million.

Yet Scott Sinclair went England to Scotland for £4.5 million.

Not wanting to sound crazy but which would you really want????

Of more relevance is the fact that Sinclair was transferred for £8m after 1 good season in the Championship. When he joined Celtc he'd scored 9 goals in 4 years! How much do you think Celtc would want for him now?

[where'stheslope]

The amount we're looking to get is about the amount you suggest we should have paid St M. That really makes sense! As for £50k a week he won't be getting anywhere near that regardless of where he goes. We've developed John to the point that he's now a regular selection for Scotland squads, that should be reflected in his price. I suppose Mansfield, Chesterfield & Hull should have been paying Sam Clucas £50k a week because he's now joined Swansea for squillions.

Just had a quick look at reported Celtic player wages and Scott Brown and Scott Sinclair are on £25,000 a week?

So, by that if true, McGinn should be getting paid £16,500 a week by us to get the proper transfer fee???

[WhileTheChief..]

Don't follow that at all.They want something we have then they pay the going rate.

This is the crux of the matter.

The going rate for a young, quality international midfielder is vastly different in Scotland compared to England.

Two players with identical abilities could be valued at £2m here or £20m down south. Or £50m. Pick any sky high number!

Look at van Dyke. No way have Southampton 'developed' him into a £75m player. He's just moving in a different market now.

Of course Forest will offer as low as they can, all clubs do. It's entirely up to us just now if we choose to accept and from the look of things we want a lot more.

Lennon quoted £5m?

If McGinn currently played for Southampton they'd easily get £20m for him. Should be asking for that kinda money?

[calumhibee1]

Just had a quick look at reported Celtic player wages and Scott Brown and Scott Sinclair are on £25,000 a week?

So, by that if true, McGinn should be getting paid £16,500 a week by us to get the proper transfer fee???

And by all accounts Mbappe was on about £15k a week and is being sold for £160m ish. So going by this logic, if value is based on wages, SJM should be worth around £34m? Wages aren't a reflection of a players value, it's just the amount they've agreed to sign for the last time they signed a contract. They were offered that contract based on the ability they had at the time, not the ability they have now.

[Mibbes Aye]

Capitalism.
Come the revolution...........
GG

Knew you would like that G :greengrin

[Tornadoes70]

And by all accounts Mbappe was on about £15k a week and is being sold for £160m ish. So going by this logic, if value is based on wages, SJM should be worth around £34m? Wages aren't a reflection of a players value, it's just the amount they've agreed to sign for the last time they signed a contract. They were offered that contract based on the ability they had at the time, not the ability they have now.

100%

Its his talent as a player that dictates his market value not what wage he's on and SJM is a very talented football player.

[brog]

Just had a quick look at reported Celtic player wages and Scott Brown and Scott Sinclair are on £25,000 a week?

So, by that if true, McGinn should be getting paid £16,500 a week by us to get the proper transfer fee???

I'm really not sure where you're going with this. The only formal correlation between wages paid & a transfer fee is where a development fee has to be paid. By your reasoning nobody would ever be transferred because they would already be earning the wages they could get elsewhere.

[madhatter]

This is the crux of the matter.

The going rate for a young, quality international midfielder is vastly different in Scotland compared to England.

Two players with identical abilities could be valued at £2m here or £20m down south. Or £50m. Pick any sky high number!

Look at van Dyke. No way have Southampton 'developed' him into a £75m player. He's just moving in a different market now.

Of course Forest will offer as low as they can, all clubs do. It's entirely up to us just now if we choose to accept and from the look of things we want a lot more.

Lennon quoted £5m?

If McGinn currently played for Southampton they'd easily get £20m for him. Should be asking for that kinda money?

You've just made the point - Hibs manager has stated £5 million, why are they offering £750,000? That isn't just trying to get cheap that is showing lack of respect. It's like Liverpool being quoted £81m for Van Dijk and then offering £12m? I actually think due to the shocking offer, Hibs should report Forest for trying to unsettle the player, that's all the original offer was intended to do. See the biggest difference as well - McGinn would probably be more valuable to Hibs than Van Dijk to Southampton because we don't get the £100 million Southampton get from TV. If Southampton get £81m they can replace Van Dijk with ease. English clubs can always leave a player in the reserves and let his career waste if they wanted, we don't have that luxury. If we get £750,000 what can we get? Every Scottish club will put up their prices to get as much money as possible from us...Aberdeen couldn't get Moult for £400,000...

Will it be another high sell-on clause to secure McGinn's replacement (should he go) which will essentially mean we'll get £500,000 at most for full Scottish internationalists after passing on relevant fees to previous clubs (based on the seemingly likely McGinn departure). Football market is global. Barcelona signed a French Internationalist from a German team for £135m, as far as I could tell they were the only team interested, even if they weren't, who decided where bidding started? As I said, big leagues sign from big leagues for millions upon millions, but small teams in smaller leagues for virtually same quality player get pennies (Dembele is 20 years old and I think comparable skill to many other players in the game at the moment, Mbappe is similar - 1 decent season and price is of the charts, why?). Who defines a players' worth? £135m for a player half this forum don't seem to know...must be world class...

Hibs are a selling club. As are most clubs to be honest. However, who decides Scottish clubs should sell at a low price? There almost seems to be sympathy for McGinn and a feeling of not wishing to hold him back from a successful career. He is a servant of Hibs until his contract expires or until Hibs valuation is met, like any other league in the world. If valuation isn't met, he stays and acts like a professional. Simple as, applying other employment laws and rules to football is flawed. Likewise for applying other market structure and trends. Football is now nothing but a toy for the rich. Financial Fair Play, anyone seen this or can we assume that corruption is still rife within Fifa/Uefa?

[JK Rolling]

There have been some excellent points made throughout this thread but sadly one of the most significant aspects of any transfer is the desire on the part of the player concerned to leave. Once his head is turned it can be very difficult to get them back onboard and as Lennon said this weekend that he felt John's head may've been elsewhere.

With this in mind, when a player sets his sights on being elsewhere, and if his play then starts to suffer, the writing can be on the wall and the best available offer becomes the one to take. Sadly.

[madhatter]

There have been some excellent points made throughout this thread but sadly one of the most significant aspects of any transfer is the desire on the part of the player concerned to leave. Once his head is turned it can be very difficult to get them back onboard and as Lennon said this weekend that he felt John's head may've been elsewhere.

With this in mind, when a player sets his sights on being elsewhere, and if his play then starts to suffer, the writing can be on the wall and the best available offer becomes the one to take. Sadly.

Report Forest then - clear attempt to unsettle player. I'm sorry but if football continues the way it is going, outside the elite leagues, football will be dead (clubs will go out of business). If we sell McGinn for the suggested rate, we could conceivably, after procuring his replacement, be running at a loss from the relevant dealings...and possibly for a lesser player that we'll need to develop and sell to break even later down the line...

We sold Scott Brown years ago (approx £4.5m), when he wasn't Scottish Internationalist. Global football market was much lower - great players were being bought and sold for £30-40m.

Many years pass.

McGinn is Scottish Internationalist with many first team games under his belt. He has been scouted by more than Forest and there is obvious interest. At a time when globally the football market has went bananas and mediocre players are being bought for £30m...Forest offer £750,000

Am I losing it?

[green&left]

I guess we should have paid St Mirren about £3M and McGinn's wages of around £50k a week if we're looking to get zillions for selling him on?

We can't really expect to sell for these massive prices if we're not paying accordingly.

Nae offence but what alot of utter ***** :D

[Firestarter]

McGinn flies out tomorrow with no bid made. He will be a Hibs player come Friday, German, wee Gordon, super Leigh and Broony will make sure of it.

[Mibbes Aye]

You've just made the point - Hibs manager has stated £5 million, why are they offering £750,000? That isn't just trying to get cheap that is showing lack of respect. It's like Liverpool being quoted £81m for Van Dijk and then offering £12m? I actually think due to the shocking offer, Hibs should report Forest for trying to unsettle the player, that's all the original offer was intended to do. See the biggest difference as well - McGinn would probably be more valuable to Hibs than Van Dijk to Southampton because we don't get the £100 million Southampton get from TV. If Southampton get £81m they can replace Van Dijk with ease. English clubs can always leave a player in the reserves and let his career waste if they wanted, we don't have that luxury. If we get £750,000 what can we get? Every Scottish club will put up their prices to get as much money as possible from us...Aberdeen couldn't get Moult for £400,000...

Will it be another high sell-on clause to secure McGinn's replacement (should he go) which will essentially mean we'll get £500,000 at most for full Scottish internationalists after passing on relevant fees to previous clubs (based on the seemingly likely McGinn departure). Football market is global. Barcelona signed a French Internationalist from a German team for £135m, as far as I could tell they were the only team interested, even if they weren't, who decided where bidding started? As I said, big leagues sign from big leagues for millions upon millions, but small teams in smaller leagues for virtually same quality player get pennies (Dembele is 20 years old and I think comparable skill to many other players in the game at the moment, Mbappe is similar - 1 decent season and price is of the charts, why?). Who defines a players' worth? £135m for a player half this forum don't seem to know...must be world class...

Hibs are a selling club. As are most clubs to be honest. However, who decides Scottish clubs should sell at a low price? There almost seems to be sympathy for McGinn and a feeling of not wishing to hold him back from a successful career. He is a servant of Hibs until his contract expires or until Hibs valuation is met, like any other league in the world. If valuation isn't met, he stays and acts like a professional. Simple as, applying other employment laws and rules to football is flawed. Likewise for applying other market structure and trends. Football is now nothing but a toy for the rich. Financial Fair Play, anyone seen this or can we assume that corruption is still rife within Fifa/Uefa?

Except that's not true.

The reality is that clubs will eventually meet somewhere in the middle, or some point either side. It suits everybody for that to be so (except maybe the fans, but that's how it rolls)

Hibs will take a fee for SJM or any other player should they have a year, or even two, on their contract, it would be exceptional not to.

We are very close to the shutting of the window and Sanchez with Arsenal will be an example. If he does move it reinforces the point. If he isn't sold it highlights how exceptional it is to hold on to someone with no transfer value next window round.

[Billy Whizz]

I hope we don't shaft St Mirren, when he moves on. Clubs like them need the money to develop players, that we may pick up in future years

[calumhibee1]

Report Forest then - clear attempt to unsettle player. I'm sorry but if football continues the way it is going, outside the elite leagues, football will be dead (clubs will go out of business). If we sell McGinn for the suggested rate, we could conceivably, after procuring his replacement, be running at a loss from the relevant dealings...and possibly for a lesser player that we'll need to develop and sell to break even later down the line...

We sold Scott Brown years ago (approx £4.5m), when he wasn't Scottish Internationalist. Global football market was much lower - great players were being bought and sold for £30-40m.

Many years pass.

McGinn is Scottish Internationalist with many first team games under his belt. He has been scouted by more than Forest and there is obvious interest. At a time when globally the football market has went bananas and mediocre players are being bought for £30m...Forest offer £750,000

Am I losing it?

Exactly. :top marks And people quoting Scott Sinclairs price to Celtic, they do realise he hadn't done anything of note whatsoever for a good few years when they paid what they did for him? If they were signing someone who was in the form he is in for Celtic they would have been quoted £30m+ from clubs down south. It's really not an indicator as to what we should expect for SJM.

[JK Rolling]

Report Forest then - clear attempt to unsettle player. I'm sorry but if football continues the way it is going, outside the elite leagues, football will be dead (clubs will go out of business). If we sell McGinn for the suggested rate, we could conceivably, after procuring his replacement, be running at a loss from the relevant dealings...and possibly for a lesser player that we'll need to develop and sell to break even later down the line...

We sold Scott Brown years ago (approx £4.5m), when he wasn't Scottish Internationalist. Global football market was much lower - great players were being bought and sold for £30-40m.

Many years pass.

McGinn is Scottish Internationalist with many first team games under his belt. He has been scouted by more than Forest and there is obvious interest. At a time when globally the football market has went bananas and mediocre players are being bought for £30m...Forest offer £750,000

Am I losing it?

You're not losing it mate, although your name would suggest you are. :wink:

An interesting piece on the BBC site does a decent job of highlighting the underhand approaches used.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/40678998

There is the possibility that we've employed similar tactics in the past ourselves but that still doesn't lessen the pain when you're on the receiving end.

[18Hibee75]

Report Forest then - clear attempt to unsettle player. I'm sorry but if football continues the way it is going, outside the elite leagues, football will be dead (clubs will go out of business). If we sell McGinn for the suggested rate, we could conceivably, after procuring his replacement, be running at a loss from the relevant dealings...and possibly for a lesser player that we'll need to develop and sell to break even later down the line...

We sold Scott Brown years ago (approx £4.5m), when he wasn't Scottish Internationalist. Global football market was much lower - great players were being bought and sold for £30-40m.

Many years pass.

McGinn is Scottish Internationalist with many first team games under his belt. He has been scouted by more than Forest and there is obvious interest. At a time when globally the football market has went bananas and mediocre players are being bought for £30m...Forest offer £750,000

Am I losing it?Spot on. The fact Fulham rejected a £20M for Tom Cairney - who hasn't even made the Scotland squad, is unbelievable. Scottish football has been looked down upon, laughed at and neglected from arrogant English fans and others outside the league for a good few years now. F*** Sky Sports.

Sent from my F3211 using Tapatalk

[Billy Whizz]

Spot on. The fact Fulham rejected a £20M for Tom Cairney - who hasn't even made the Scotland squad, is unbelievable. Scottish football has been looked down upon, laughed at and neglected from arrogant English fans and others outside the league for a good few years now. F*** Sky Sports.

Sent from my F3211 using Tapatalk

Kevin Wimmer: Stoke sign Tottenham defender for £18m
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41079784

I've never heard of this player, £18 million, and only 6 caps

[Mibbes Aye]

Spot on. The fact Fulham rejected a £20M for Tom Cairney - who hasn't even made the Scotland squad, is unbelievable. Scottish football has been looked down upon, laughed at and neglected from arrogant English fans and others outside the league for a good few years now. F*** Sky Sports.

Sent from my F3211 using Tapatalk

Not sure what point you're trying to make?

Fulham can reject any offer they want.

If someone offered £20m for Tom Cairney then it simply reflects the market price. The fact it wasn't accepted reflects that Fulham think they don't want to sell him and/or can get a better price.

Oh aye, he has made the squad, in fact he set up the goal for Scotland on his debut at Easter Road.

[Brightside]

Not sure what point you're trying to make?

Fulham can reject any offer they want.

If someone offered £20m for Tom Cairney then it simply reflects the market price. The fact it wasn't accepted reflects that Fulham think they don't want to sell him and/or can get a better price.

Oh aye, he has made the squad, in fact he set up the goal for Scotland on his debut at Easter Road.

Tom Cairney is a great young player. Strachan doesnt rate him so that proves that.

[Crazyhorse]

Spot on. The fact Fulham rejected a £20M for Tom Cairney - who hasn't even made the Scotland squad, is unbelievable. Scottish football has been looked down upon, laughed at and neglected from arrogant English fans and others outside the league for a good few years now. F*** Sky Sports.

Sent from my F3211 using Tapatalk

Scottish football has also done its best to turn itself into a sub-mediocre laughing stock. The corruption typified by the sevco case is being ignored/promoted? by the authorities and clubs. The pointlessness of the league title race will continue for as long as the competition lasts. The short-termism of chasing a few pennies by the teams outwith Celtic will remain.

[Mibbes Aye]

Tom Cairney is a great young player. Strachan doesnt rate him so that proves that.

I have to confess I've not seen much of him, but the little I've seen was decent.

He has been talked up in the close season as one to watch, by the English press, which certainly marks him out.

[Ozyhibby]

Mcginn's value is affected by the low regard the Scottish game is held in by people in England.
If we really want to maximise the value we get for mcginn then we should loan him to Forrest for a season. One year playing in the championship as well as he does here and £5m will look cheap.



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[J-C]

Tom Cairney is a great young player. Strachan doesn't rate him so that proves that.


Doesn't rate him yet he's in the squad for the double header this week?

[Brightside]

Doesn't rate him yet he's in the squad for the double header this week?

He should have been starting for the last 2 years. But we will keep wheeling out Fletcher and Naismith instead.

[J-C]

He should have been starting for the last 2 years. But we will keep wheeling out Fletcher and Naismith instead.


I agree with you there, Strachans squad selection has been a bit bizarre at times, I thought when he took over he'd play players on form etc, but it's like the old pals squad at times.

[Stuart93]

If NF's opening offer was only 750k, I can't see this increasing to a figure that we're likely to accept

[SouthMoroccoStu]

If NF's opening offer was only 750k, I can't see this increasing to a figure that we're likely to accept
And that's fine with me

[bingo70]

If NF's opening offer was only 750k, I can't see this increasing to a figure that we're likely to accept

Neither can I however it might give another club a nudge to make a move.

The Scottish market has been great value for English championship clubs over the last few years. Whether Mcginn could make it in the premiership is another discussion (I think he could) but there's no doubt he could go on to be a very good championship player at least for the next 10 years, absolutely no doubts about that whatsoever, £2m would represent great value for that kind of player down south, £5m is probably a fairer figure however I doubt we'll get close to receiving that.

I actually think he'll stay now as we're too close to the window slamming **** to replace him however if he does go I think we'll get around £1.8-£2m up front with some good add ons to the deal.

The way the transfer market is down south it probably is a better deal than it may seem at first to accept a lower fee with a sell on %

[seanshow]

Mcginn's value is affected by the low regard the Scottish game is held in by people in England.
If we really want to maximise the value we get for mcginn then we should loan him to Forrest for a season. One year playing in the championship as well as he does here and £5m will look cheap.



I presumed that's what they were getting for £750k! surely not a permanent transfer fee at that price. :wink:

[Scottie]

Doesn't rate him yet he's in the squad for the double header this week?
Unfortunately Tom Cairney pulled out injured. James Morrison called up in his place.

[Keith_M]

Neither can I however it might give another club a nudge to make a move.

The Scottish market has been great value for English championship clubs over the last few years. Whether Mcginn could make it in the premiership is another discussion (I think he could) but there's no doubt he could go on to be a very good championship player at least for the next 10 years, absolutely no doubts about that whatsoever, £2m would represent great value for that kind of player down south, £5m is probably a fairer figure however I doubt we'll get close to receiving that.

I actually think he'll stay now as we're too close to the window slamming **** to replace him however if he does go I think we'll get around £1.8-£2m up front with some good add ons to the deal.

The way the transfer market is down south it probably is a better deal than it may seem at first to accept a lower fee with a sell on %


When the Golden Generation was sold off around ten years ago, we got 4 million for Scott Brown. Now, Brown is a fantastic player but I think McGinn is currently at least as good as Brown was when he was at Hibs.

Also, the TV money in England has increased exponentially since then, so I'd certainly hope Hibs tell any clubs that want him that they'll have to pay the market rate, which IMO is much more than 2 million.

[brog]

He should have been starting for the last 2 years. But we will keep wheeling out Fletcher and Naismith instead.

Cairney's a midfield player. He's been selected for several squads & was actually capped at, ahem, Easter Road versus Canada. Sorry! :wink:
I've seen him with Fulham & he's a good player but TBH I'm not sure he's significantly better than our other midfield players, though he's more of a goal threat. I agree re Naismith, shouldn't be anywhere near a squad.

[bingo70]

When the Golden Generation was sold off around ten years ago, we got 4 million for Scott Brown. Now, Brown is a fantastic player but I think McGinn is currently at least as good as Brown was when he was at Hibs.

Also, the TV money in England has increased exponentially since then, so I'd certainly hope Hibs tell any clubs that want him that they'll have to pay the market rate, which IMO is much more than 2 million.

Totally agree, the only problem is that financially the player is only worth what someone is willing to pay, I know we could sit tight and keep him however next summer he'll only have a year left on his contract so if we do want to cash in on him then this will probably be the best time to make money.

You see English premiership reserve players going for £10-£15m, that to me is bonkers, if I was an English championship manager it'd be a no a brainer to sign the likes of John Mcginn for £2-£3m, unfortunately (or fortunately maybe) they don't seem to agree.

[Sioux]

To stop all this nonsense, FIFA could bring in a rule that no player can be transferred whilst he is under contract.

The top clubs wouldn't need hugely excessive amounts of cash for transfers, but unfortunately too many clubs are propped up by selling their better players.

If the TV companies stopped giving the clubs obscene amounts of money, (UEFA is complicit in selling inflated CL and EL rights) clubs would be more reliant on income and a more level playing field would eventually come about.

Greed will always win at the end of the day. Perhaps the only ones who can make a real difference are the fans. If all around Europe we stopped paying for wall to wall coverage of football, the game might just return to something more sensible as far as financing is concerned.

None of the above will ever happen so we are stuck with what we've got.

[MWHIBBIES]

To stop all this nonsense, FIFA could bring in a rule that no player can be transferred whilst he is under contract.

The top clubs wouldn't need hugely excessive amounts of cash for transfers, but unfortunately too many clubs are propped up by selling their better players.

If the TV companies stopped giving the clubs obscene amounts of money, (UEFA is complicit in selling inflated CL and EL rights) clubs would be more reliant on income and a more level playing field would eventually come about.

Greed will always win at the end of the day. Perhaps the only ones who can make a real difference are the fans. If all around Europe we stopped paying for wall to wall coverage of football, the game might just return to something more sensible as far as financing is concerned.

None of the above will ever happen so we are stuck with what we've got.This would be as bad for Hibs as anyone and wouldn't really change anything, clubs would just pay to have the players contract terminated so they could sign him.

[Diclonius]

Mcginn's value is affected by the low regard the Scottish game is held in by people in England.
If we really want to maximise the value we get for mcginn then we should loan him to Forrest for a season. One year playing in the championship as well as he does here and £5m will look cheap.



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Exactly. If he plays with exactly the same level of quality they'll sell him on next year to a West Brom for £15M.

[Lancs Harp]

To add fuel to the fire I see Boro have just signed Marvin Johnson from Oxford for 2 million. Was he the lad that played at Motherwell a season or two back?

[Billy Whizz]

To add fuel to the fire I see Boro have just signed Marvin Johnson from Oxford for 2 million. Was he the lad that played at Motherwell a season or two back?

Yup, crazy money

[Stewboy]

To stop all this nonsense, FIFA could bring in a rule that no player can be transferred whilst he is under contract.

The top clubs wouldn't need hugely excessive amounts of cash for transfers, but unfortunately too many clubs are propped up by selling their better players.

If the TV companies stopped giving the clubs obscene amounts of money, (UEFA is complicit in selling inflated CL and EL rights) clubs would be more reliant on income and a more level playing field would eventually come about.

Greed will always win at the end of the day. Perhaps the only ones who can make a real difference are the fans. If all around Europe we stopped paying for wall to wall coverage of football, the game might just return to something more sensible as far as financing is concerned.

None of the above will ever happen so we are stuck with what we've got.

Unless I am picking you up wrong (if so apologies) then how are clubs supposed to make money? We bring through a quality player who signs a 4 year deal. We then can't 'sell' him for 4 years and then let him go for nothing.

All that will happen there is the richer clubs won't have to fork out big transfer fees, but instead pay players £1m per week to join at the end of their contract.

[Stevie Reid]

Jackson Irvine has just signed for Hull. Fee is undisclosed, but can imagine it will be crazy.

[brog]

To add fuel to the fire I see Boro have just signed Marvin Johnson from Oxford for 2 million. Was he the lad that played at Motherwell a season or two back?

Yep, good left-sided player, not too different from Lewis Morgan. Hopefully all Scottish clubs have wised up & have decent sell-on clauses in the contract. That's really the only way we'll get value for our players.

[SirDavidsNapper]

Yep, good left-sided player, not too different from Lewis Morgan. Hopefully all Scottish clubs have wised up & have decent sell-on clauses in the contract. That's really the only way we'll get value for our players.

Completely agree. Cummings and McGinn when he eventually goes will have massive sell on clauses. Petrie isn't daft.

[Jim44]

According to the NF forum, they are to make a second bid today.

[Springbank]

According to the NF forum, they are to make a second bid today.

Hopefully someone with a bit of nous will explain to them, in good advance time, that it's not the number of bids they make that anyone gives a toss about.

It's the big number they are offering that they need to change.

For any Forest types looking in, £5m was the helpful hint...

[Sioux]

Unless I am picking you up wrong (if so apologies) then how are clubs supposed to make money? We bring through a quality player who signs a 4 year deal. We then can't 'sell' him for 4 years and then let him go for nothing.

All that will happen there is the richer clubs won't have to fork out big transfer fees, but instead pay players £1m per week to join at the end of their contract.

Exactly. It is a can of worms. I have no idea what the solution might be. But it is fairly clear that the biggest clubs get more money from TV than anywhere else. If somehow that money was curtailed, it would bring down the gap between the top and not so top clubs.

Football is now decided by how much money you have, more than at any time in it's history. There comes a point when it is simply a case of calculating the money each club has at the start of the season and handing out the prizes there and then. A bunch of glamour 'friendlies' can then be arranged to satisfy the TV companies.

Sporting integrity? That's a laugh.

Here's a thought; If team sport success is based solely on a bank balance, irrespective of the source of the funds, enabling that team to outperform it's competitors, is that much different from taking performance enhancing substances to achieve similar success?

This is going too deep and has nowt really to do with SJM.

[Lancs Harp]

According to the NF forum, they are to make a second bid today.

As fans we dont know whats going on behind the scenes but one thing I find surprising about this saga is that Forest made a derisory opening bid (pretty standard tactic) but no other club has been alerted by this and shown an interest. Hibs reject a 750k bid, I thought someone else might have tried their luck at say a million or something. Im actually quietly confident SJM will still be here post window, no one else seems to be mounting a bid and I cant see Forest spending whats needed.

[Dinkydoo]

Warbuton has previous for making bids to unsettle our players

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[Sioux]

This would be as bad for Hibs as anyone and wouldn't really change anything, clubs would just pay to have the players contract terminated so they could sign him.

Ok, but you could stop transfers on the basis that a registration cannot be cancelled at a date earlier than the end of the relevant contract. As in my most recent post, this is a can of worms where it is unlikely a solution can ever be found.

[Stewboy]

Exactly. It is a can of worms. I have no idea what the solution might be. But it is fairly clear that the biggest clubs get more money from TV than anywhere else. If somehow that money was curtailed, it would bring down the gap between the top and not so top clubs.

Football is now decided by how much money you have, more than at any time in it's history. There comes a point when it is simply a case of calculating the money each club has at the start of the season and handing out the prizes there and then. A bunch of glamour 'friendlies' can then be arranged to satisfy the TV companies.

Sporting integrity? That's a laugh.

Here's a thought; If team sport success is based solely on a bank balance, irrespective of the source of the funds, enabling that team to outperform it's competitors, is that much different from taking performance enhancing substances to achieve similar success?

This is going too deep and has nowt really to do with SJM.

Fair points pal!

Football has always been hierarchy based though. Man U can out bid Celtic significantly. Celtic can outbid Hibs significantly. Hibs can outbid Dunfermline significantly. Dunfermline can out bid Albion Rovers. Etc.

The issue now and over the past 10 years or so is the amount of money that English 2nd/3rd/4th tier clubs have from TV money & the amount the PL generates has distorted it. Hibs & Hearts probably have bigger average gates than teams like Burton yet they can blow us away financially.

That's why they sign players from Scotland for a pittance, the money is too good for us to turn down and given the drop in the ocean it is for them they know if they flop the player can go down a league in England and they can probably re-coup their fee they paid to us or make a fortune on up-selling them up a league due to the inflated English market

[Diclonius]

The asking price is £5M Warbsy. Pay up or **** off.

[Captain Trips]

If it were me I would treat Notts Forest with total and utter contempt. To bid what they did was beyond and insult IMO.

I would tell them its £10m simple yes or no if not eff off tbh.

[snooky]

According to the NF forum, they are to make a second bid today.

They can make another 50 bids but until one meets our value of the player they will fail.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

NL needs to get on the phone to the bread man.

"This is our price, tell your board to pay it or **** off" it really is that simple. IF a deal can be done (It'd take upwards of £3M plus sell on clause for me to consider - particularly this late in the window) then get it done today so we can go about bringing in any replacements.

[Springbank]

They can make another 50 bids but until one meets our value of the player they will fail.

I'm looking for a new gaff and I've just contacted New York and bid £750,000 for The Empire State Building.

Wonder if it'll be accepted...

[Bob Box Fish]

I think we will keep him and he will sign a new contact before being sold next summer for 2.5 million....

[FilipinoHibs]

I think we will keep him and he will sign a new contact before being sold next summer for 2.5 million....
Yes increase in wages and he goes next summer.

[Onion]

According to the NF forum, they are to make a second bid today.

Need to treble their initial bid to even get a place at the table. Otherwise, wasting everyone's time. In fact anything less than that, Hibs should not even bother replying to them.

[Onion]

I think we will keep him and he will sign a new contact before being sold next summer for 2.5 million....

Agree, Hibs likely to hang onto him for another 12 months. But if he signs an extended contract, expect Hibs will demand a bigger fee than £2.5m. Pocket change for Celtic and most English Champ clubs these days.

[Onion]

NL needs to get on the phone to the bread man.

"This is our price, tell your board to pay it or **** off" it really is that simple. IF a deal can be done (It'd take upwards of £3M plus sell on clause for me to consider - particularly this late in the window) then get it done today so we can go about bringing in any replacements.

Must realise Celtic are sitting in the wings here. Any suggestion Hibs might accept less than £2M for him would spark Celtic's interest and NF would not have a prayer of getting him.

Warburton needs to start bidding at £2.5 - 3m to have any chance of getting JMG. Guy's a muppet.

[Bob Box Fish]

Second offer mentioned now on Facebook any idea how much ?

[Borderhibbie76]

Second offer mentioned now on Facebook any idea how much ?I'm EEN too but no idea how much...

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[Smartie]

Warbuton has previous for making bids to unsettle our players

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Warburton has previous for this tactic blowing up in his face.

Maybe we should flog SJM to Derby and get a pot of cash to spend on a superb player, a star on loan for a year and an excellent player in permanently?

[Firestarter]

New bid in.

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/nottingham-forest-make-second-bid-for-hibs-star-john-mcginn-1-4546697

No deal.

[Stuart93]

Still don't think it'll be anywhere near our estimate, well I hope not

[Shrekko]

New bid in.

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/nottingham-forest-make-second-bid-for-hibs-star-john-mcginn-1-4546697

No deal.
It doesn't say no deal does it?

[JeMeSouviens]

It doesn't say no deal does it?

The EN's twitter guy says Hibs yet to respond ... :worried:

[Billy Whizz]

John will be flying out with Scotland tomorrow, looks like this will have to be cleared up today

[Firestarter]

It doesn't say no deal does it?

No, it's my opinion. Otherwise I would have put new bid in rejected.

[Andy74]

John will be flying out with Scotland tomorrow, looks like this will have to be cleared up today

Not really, can be done remotely.

[Hibby70]

Not really, can be done remotely.

Surely he would need a medical though.

[007]

The EN's twitter guy says Hibs yet to respond ... :worried:

Shouldn't take long, only decision to make is whether to tell them to F off or P off.

[Hibee Mac]

We'd be mad to sell John McGinn this late in the window even for our "valued price"

[Aldo]

Surely he would need a medical though.

Think it can be done subject to a medical!

[Billy Whizz]

Not really, can be done remotely.

I know that, just think it would be unfair on John, when he'll be wanting to concentrate on the Scotland game

Stupid that the window always falls over the internal break, with players here, there and everywhere. Window should have been closed on Monday

[Captain Trips]

10 years since Scott Brown was sold for £4m a lot has changed in that time. SJM may or may not be better but his CV has double cup winner on it with non Old firm and Internationalist.

His contract may not be as long left as what Brown's was but he should not be sold for less or even same as Brown.

Anything less IMO is a rip off.

[Stuart93]

We'd be mad to sell John McGinn this late in the window even for our "valued price"

Every player has a price unfortunately, lennon said that himself

[JeMeSouviens]

10 years since Scott Brown was sold for £4m a lot has changed in that time. SJM may or may not be better but his CV has double cup winner on it with non Old firm and Internationalist.

His contract may not be as long left as what Brown's was but he should not be sold for less or even same as Brown.

Anything less IMO is a rip off.

Unless we want the money quickly to fund Moult (& Hendo)?

[DH1875]

I know that, just think it would be unfair on John, when he'll be wanting to concentrate on the Scotland game

Stupid that the window always falls over the internal break, with players here, there and everywhere. Window should have been closed on Monday

Think Scotland are playing on Monday.

[Billy Whizz]

Think Scotland are playing on Monday.

Friday away in lithuania, and home to Malta on Monday

Whether he'll start on Friday is another thing

[johnbc70]

If the initial bid was £750K and NL is quoted as saying it was 3 or 4 times short of our valuation then we must very looking for between £2.25M to £3M. Still a bargain in the over inflated English market.

[CB_NO3]

I assume there new bid is a million pound. Still not enough. Hibs should tell them to beat it.

[Real Emerald]

10 years since Scott Brown was sold for £4m a lot has changed in that time. SJM may or may not be better but his CV has double cup winner on it with non Old firm and Internationalist.

His contract may not be as long left as what Brown's was but he should not be sold for less or even same as Brown.

Anything less IMO is a rip off.

Totally agree and add in the utter fiasco Warburton caused with Scott Allan disrupting our season, making us sell a player that was happy until all his pathetic endless bids came in. Probably ruined years of the lads career too. He now thinks he can come back and steal another of our best players for a knockdown price. For all of that I wouldn't deal with the prick for any price.

[JohnMcM]

I've got a bad feeling about this terms of if he goes it will be an under-sale, (I think I just made that word up?) :rolleyes:

[WhileTheChief..]

I blame Cummings. He's lost without his mate down there. Warburton is just trying to help him out.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Forest can **** right off with their pishy offers.

[Heisenberg]

Can't see them increasing their offer to what we want. Also agree with others in thinking we'll keep him for another season then he'll be off.

[Billy Whizz]

Can't see them increasing their offer to what we want. Also agree with others in thinking we'll keep him for another season then he'll be off.

I'd accept that, as would most Hibs supporters

[SouthMoroccoStu]

They just got £10m for one of their players

They can F right off if they think they can get someone with Super in his name

[Onion]

If the initial bid was £750K and NL is quoted as saying it was 3 or 4 times short of our valuation then we must very looking for between £2.25M to £3M. Still a bargain in the over inflated English market.

That's just Hibs slice. We expect Warbs to pay St Mirren their slice, congratulate Hibs for winning the Cup, apologise for being disrespectful and then to kiss his own arse. ABE :wink:

[Nicho87]

Best situation is exactly what a few have said and what hibs did with Cummings. If McGinnis agent has any sense he'll tell him to sign a deal stay with us one more year prove his worth and get his move to Celtic which I reckon he'd prefer. Keeps us and McGinn happy.

[Captain Trips]

I would offer him improved terms no minimum clause discuss what we think his value is and what we are open to if an offer is made after this season.

If he is happy great if not reject these low bids and carry on.

[staunchhibby]

Is this not a form of tapping a player.Surely some action can be taken.

[Neily1982]

Daily rag reporting Hibs have knocked back the second offer from Forrest

[MWHIBBIES]

Is this not a form of tapping a player.Surely some action can be taken.What have they done wrong?

[Jim44]

Daily rag reporting Hibs have knocked back the second offer from Forrest

Excellent, if true.

[Smartie]

Daily rag reporting Hibs have knocked back the second offer from Forrest

Can we not just consider the second offer for a couple of days before telling them to bolt?

Why tell them now, giving them an opportunity to come back with a third bid?

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Daily rag reporting Hibs have knocked back the second offer from Forrest

I bet they say it in a right bitchy tone

[KWJ]

I would offer him improved terms no minimum clause discuss what we think his value is and what we are open to if an offer is made after this season.

If he is happy great if not reject these low bids and carry on.

Yup.

[Jim44]

Can we not just consider the second offer for a couple of days before telling them to bolt?

Why tell them now, giving them an opportunity to come back with a third bid?

That's too obvious. I would be surprised if bidding clubs don't put a limited time clause on any bid they make.

[Neily1982]

To be honest I have sneaky feeling Celtic or another championship club will make an offer and that's where he will end up, am not in the know at all, just what I feel will happen.

[Onion]

Can we not just consider the second offer for a couple of days before telling them to bolt?

Why tell them now, giving them an opportunity to come back with a third bid?

:agree:

[Captain Trips]

Dear Hibs

I strongly recommend you pop this onto the clubs anwserphone message:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEJiNc1lsaI

[GoalsMcGinley]

I'm switching to Hovis for good!


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[18Hibee75]

I blame Cummings. He's lost without his mate down there. Warburton is just trying to help him out.Reckon Cummings is certainly texting him persuading him to get to NF.

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[Billy Whizz]

Reckon Cummings is certainly texting him persuading him to get to NF.

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Think Cummings should be concentrating, in getting in the Forest team

[Fergos]

Pretty relaxed about this as I have full confidence in LD to getting the right deal for us should he be sold.

More concerned about getting a replacement in of decent standard if JM does go - gut feeling is he won't however, as I don't think Notts F will match what we want.

GGTTH

[Smartie]

That's too obvious. I would be surprised if bidding clubs don't put a limited time clause on any bid they make.

I don't see why they should be allowed to dictate the rules.

And I hope they're not mistaking us for a club who actually wants to sell their best player.

Warburton blabbed in the press about them giving us "much less" than was reported for Cummings, causing grief for our board from our fans.

They've lowballed us with a couple of offers for our best, most valuable player.

They're not playing by the rules, they're not acting appropriately so why should we?

If I was at Hibs right now, I don't think I'd be co-operating with them.

I'd be playing silly beggars right back.

I'd be ramming Warburton's 2016 runners-up medal right up his, er, hat.

[LaMotta]

Is this not a form of tapping a player.Surely some action can be taken.

99 percent of players are tapped up. Theres nothing can be done about it. We will be doing it too!

[bingo70]

Think Cummings should be concentrating, in getting in the Forest team

Would texting his mate affect his concentration?

I'm pretty relaxed about this whole affair, if he leaves he leaves, imo Slivka was signed as his replacement already and anybody else we can bring in on top should he leave would be a bonus.

[Captain Trips]

As I said before £14m in for Assambalonga they sign a decent stiker with great potential in JC and want to add to that with a 2 xdomestic cup winning player whom is a current International both in total for less than what £2.5m (Going on middleground of guesses on JC fee of £1.5m).

Total and utter piss take of Hbs but of the game up here also. Warburtons a joke of a manager whom hopefully gets punted.

[Stewboy]

As I said before £14m in for Assambalonga they sign a decent stiker with great potential in JC and want to add to that with a 2 xdomestic cup winning player whom is a current International both in total for less than what £2.5m (Going on middleground of guesses on JC fee of £1.5m).

Total and utter piss take of Hbs but of the game up here also. Warburtons a joke of a manager whom hopefully gets punted.

It is a pisstake, however why would the bread man spend way over the market rate for SJM? He works for NF not Hibs.

If we don't feel he is paying what we think we should then we should tell him to bolt. We have a figure we believe is market rate and bread man will have a figure in mind. If they can't meet then no deal.

[Jim44]

According to a guy on the NF forum, a third and final bid is being considered. His source is some NF ITKer called Wayne. Might be a load of tosh, tho'.

[18Hibee75]

According to a guy on the NF forum, a third and final bid is bring considered. His source is some NF ITKer called Wayne. Might be a load of tosh, tho'.IF this is true, wouldn't be bad for us at all, going by their first bid and their second bid (which I'm assuming was around £1M) their third and final bid will probably be around £1.5M which is also know where near enough. We reject that. Saga over.

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[Greencore]

Not related to SJM but does anyons k ow if we got a sell on fee for JC?

[bingo70]

Not related to SJM but does anyons k ow if we got a sell on fee for JC?

Nobody on here will know for sure but I'd be amazed if we sold for such a low figure without a decent sell on %

That's based on Warburton saying it was a lot less than a million they paid for him.

[Hibernia&Alba]

According to a guy on the NF forum, a third and final bid is being considered. His source is some NF ITKer called Wayne. Might be a load of tosh, tho'.

Well it had better be a realistic bid. Selling is one thing; selling for peanuts is quite another.

[Springbank]

Well it had better be a realistic bid. Selling is one thing; selling for peanuts is quite another.

I'd prefer it to be an unrealistic bid

Easily rejected

Sjm helps us to our best top flight season in many years, potential cup finals and derby dominance to enjoy along the way

[Is It On....]

According to a guy on the NF forum, a third and final bid is being considered. His source is some NF ITKer called Wayne. Might be a load of tosh, tho'.

According to a book I am reading, Nick Griffin used to run the NF forum..

[Hibernia&Alba]

I'd prefer it to be an unrealistic bid

Easily rejected

Sjm helps us to our best top flight season in many years, potential cup finals and derby dominance to enjoy along the way

Agreed, hopefully we keep him. However, if he does indeed go, it needs to be for top dollar. The English Championship is awash with money; we must drive a hard bargain.

[Deansy]

Warburton knows our valuation of SJM - either from Hibs or what's in the media. If this 2nd bid is still nowhere near (or is still a joke) then that, for me, confirms the Hun are involved in this somewhere. 2 seasons on the trot that xxxx Warburton has done this to us (bidding/unsettling our best player) but this time with a different team - he's at it !

[w pilton hibby]

Warburton knows our valuation of SJM - either from Hibs or what's in the media. If this 2nd bid is still nowhere near (or is still a joke) then that, for me, confirms the Hun are involved in this somewhere. 2 seasons on the trot that xxxx Warburton has done this to us (bidding/unsettling our best player) but this time with a different team - he's at it !

Who did he bid for/unsettle last season?

[CallumLaidlaw]

Who did he bid for/unsettle last season?

I'm guessing he's missed a season and is talking about Scott Allan.


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