"Look where you're going" course urgently required

[snooky]

https://stv.tv/news/east-central/1396099-cyclist-sues-for-50-000-after-edinburgh-tram-track-fall/
Blame society at it again. "Look where you're going" course urgently required.

[speedy_gonzales]

https://stv.tv/news/east-central/1396099-cyclist-sues-for-50-000-after-edinburgh-tram-track-fall/
Blame society at it again. "Look where you're going" course urgently required.

I think there's more to it than "look where you are going".
There are sections of rail that have an illegally high profile with the road. The junction at Haymarket had to get re-designed as the original fed cyclists in to the tracks at too acute an angle. There's a similar situation along at Prince's St/St Andrew Square.
Whilst it's very easy to suggest cyclists should pay attention, or not cycle near tram tracks altogether, the local authority still has a duty to install safe infrastructure.
Compared to Manchester or Croydon, we're having far too many incidents. There must be a reason for that.

[snooky]

I think there's more to it than "look where you are going".
There are sections of rail that have an illegally high profile with the road. The junction at Haymarket had to get re-designed as the original fed cyclists in to the tracks at too acute an angle. There's a similar situation along at Prince's St/St Andrew Square.
Whilst it's very easy to suggest cyclists should pay attention, or not cycle near tram tracks altogether, the local authority still has a duty to install safe infrastructure.
Compared to Manchester or Croydon, we're having far too many incidents. There must be a reason for that.

Too many cyclists, no? :devil: :stirrer:

[snooky]

.

Aha CWG, I can see your point. :wink:

[Radium]

Easy solution. Ban cyclists from the tram route.

[emoji6]


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[Speedy]

Easy solution. Ban cyclists from the tram route.

[emoji6]


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There's no need for cyclists to go anywhere near it.

[Hibbyradge]

There's no need for cyclists to go anywhere near it.

Unless they live or work there, or want to go there, which they're perfectly entitled to do.

[snooky]

These days the world must revolve round the planet Bike, or so it would appear.

[HiBremian]

These days the world must revolve round the planet Bike, or so it would appear.

A sure sign that, in a city with something like 5% bike use, and pisspoor cycling infrastructure, actually, the world revolves around the planet car, but people are so addicted that they can't see it. ;-)


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[Speedy]

Unless they live or work there, or want to go there, which they're perfectly entitled to do.

People can do what they like but it's entirely avoidable and id it's that much of a safety concern then it seems sensible to avoid.

[lord bunberry]

It all comes down to money in the end. There aren't any accidents these days. I find the whole thing sickening tbh.

[Mr Grieves]

I think drivers that constantly have a go at cyclists would change their views if they went for a cycle in the city. You would see all the ***** we have to put up with!

[Hibbyradge]

People can do what they like but it's entirely avoidable and id it's that much of a safety concern then it seems sensible to avoid.

Why should they have to?

[Jack]

Unless they live or work there, or want to go there, which they're perfectly entitled to do.

Not if they're banned from doing so.

I agree the simple thing to do would be to ban bikes from the tram route. Where there's a road that crosses the track or where cyclists live or work on the tram route they should dismount and push their bike.

[Hibbyradge]

Not if they're banned from doing so.

I agree the simple thing to do would be to ban bikes from the tram route. Where there's a road that crosses the track or where cyclists live or work on the tram route they should dismount and push their bike.

The tram line goes past thousands of houses and shops and workplaces.

You'd need to build a whole new infrastructure to accommodate your idea.

Why not simply fix the track?

[Speedy]

The tram line goes past thousands of houses and shops and workplaces.

You'd need to build a whole new infrastructure to accommodate your idea.

Why not simply fix the track?

Is there a way to simply fix the track? What change would be made to it? (Genuine question)

You say it goes past thousands of houses and workplaces but in reality it's only haymarket and shandwick place where cyclists would be close to it. That could be easily avoided by going along Grosvenor Crescent or Melville street, or if you live on those streets then dismount and walk for 2 mins.

[snooky]

Easy solution. Ban cyclists from the tram route.

[emoji6]


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Cars are prohibited or partially restricted from using many streets so what's the difference with doing the same with bikes - or are they untouchable?

[Just Alf]

Is there a way to simply fix the track? What change would be made to it? (Genuine question)

You say it goes past thousands of houses and workplaces but in reality it's only haymarket and shandwick place where cyclists would be close to it. That could be easily avoided by going along Grosvenor Crescent or Melville street, or if you live on those streets then discount and walk for 2 mins.

In Europe they put hard rubber inserts into the groove, it eliminates the possibility of a narrow tyre getting stuck and trams don't notice it's there.... Council at the time decided not to spend the money on implementing it.

[Speedy]

In Europe they put hard rubber inserts into the groove, it eliminates the possibility of a narrow tyre getting stuck and trams don't notice it's there.... Council at the time decided not to spend the money on implementing it.

Fair enough. Would be interesting to know how much it would cost and the extent to which it reduces accidents.

[easty]

In Europe they put hard rubber inserts into the groove, it eliminates the possibility of a narrow tyre getting stuck and trams don't notice it's there.

Which is a good idea, but we don't have that here, the tram tracks are completely visible, and cyclists should take responsibility for where they're going.

If a cyclist cannae see that the tram track is wide enough for thier wheel to get stuck in then they shouldn't be cycling, it's no safe for them.

[CropleyWasGod]

Which is a good idea, but we don't have that here, the tram tracks are completely visible, and cyclists should take responsibility for where they're going.

If a cyclist cannae see that the tram track is wide enough for thier wheel to get stuck in then they shouldn't be cycling, it's no safe for them.

Being aware of it is one thing. Having to swerve suddenly (wherever that takes you) because of a random pedestrian, taxi-driver, or pot-hole is quite another.

[Just Alf]

Which is a good idea, but we don't have that here, the tram tracks are completely visible, and cyclists should take responsibility for where they're going.

If a cyclist cannae see that the tram track is wide enough for thier wheel to get stuck in then they shouldn't be cycling, it's no safe for them.

When the tracks were 1st installed the marked cycle lane actually took cyclists at a shallower angle than even the councils own recommendations, basically forcing them into the track, it was why some ignored the cycle way and used the actual road instead (probably getting pelters for doing so!)



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[Just Alf]

Fair enough. Would be interesting to know how much it would cost and the extent to which it reduces accidents.

Yup, not sure if it needed a specific type of track in the areas impacted... Probably did hence the decision to not go with it, I can't see long lengths of hard rubber being THAT expensive :dunno:

When I read about it at the time it eliminates the problem.



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[Just Alf]

To be clear I'm not a cyclist, I was simply in Ryries when on two separate visits a week apart someone came in for help after having an accident, one ended up in the news hence my interest.


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[CropleyWasGod]

Yup, not sure if it needed a specific type of track in the areas impacted... Probably did hence the decision to not go with it, I can't see long lengths of hard rubber being THAT expensive :dunno:

When I read about it at the time it eliminates the problem.



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If that is correct, it's not going to look very good for the Council in the cases at hand, and the 50-odd that are pending.

Slightly off-topic, has any action been taken in the case of the woman who was killed earlier this year? Maybe too soon for that....

[easty]

Being aware of it is one thing. Having to swerve suddenly (wherever that takes you) because of a random pedestrian, taxi-driver, or pot-hole is quite another.

If pot holes are to blame for sudden swerving into the tra line then fair enough, but if it's pedestrians or drivers, the council shouldn't be held responsible.

[easty]

When the tracks were 1st installed the marked cycle lane actually took cyclists at a shallower angle than even the councils own recommendations, basically forcing them into the track, it was why some ignored the cycle way and used the actual road instead (probably getting pelters for doing so!)


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Shallower angles or not, the cycle lanes are always way way wider than a tram track, cyclists can use thier eyes...see the tram track...dinnae cycle into it. It sounds simple because it is.

[CropleyWasGod]

If pot holes are to blame for sudden swerving into the tra line then fair enough, but if it's pedestrians or drivers, the council shouldn't be held responsible.

I agree, but neither should the cyclist be held responsible.

[speedy_gonzales]

Shallower angles or not, the cycle lanes are always way way wider than a tram track, cyclists can use thier eyes...see the tram track...dinnae cycle into it. It sounds simple because it is.

At Haymarket heading west it was impossible to avoid the tracks, the initial road layout was not legal and alterations had to be made.

[easty]

At Haymarket heading west it was impossible to avoid the tracks, the initial road layout was not legal and alterations had to be made.

It might not have been easy, but it wasn't "impossible". Plenty folk did it without coming off thier bike.

[hibsbollah]

A sure sign that, in a city with something like 5% bike use, and pisspoor cycling infrastructure, actually, the world revolves around the planet car, but people are so addicted that they can't see it. ;-)


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:top marks

[steakbake]

It's not much to have added in rubber fittings to the tramlines. When you're cycling over them, you have to take them at a particular angle. They are dangerous, no doubt.

[Scouse Hibee]

I can't believe something hasn't already been done to minimise the risk particularly at accident blackspots like Haymarket.

[lord bunberry]

Being aware of it is one thing. Having to swerve suddenly (wherever that takes you) because of a random pedestrian, taxi-driver, or pot-hole is quite another.
Oi why do we always get the blame :greengrin

[speedy_gonzales]

It might not have been easy, but it wasn't "impossible". Plenty folk did it without coming off thier bike.
I'd suggest if it was wet and cyclists were to follow the original line then it was virtually impossible to cross the rail without either sliding laterally or getting one or both wheels trapped.
Bearing in mind cyclists filter to the front of a queue (advance stop box) so this meant you were tackling a tricky obstacle with big vehicles bearing down on you.
I've never slipped on the rails but that is because I'm clipped in and can jump sideways over the rail, I do the same when I head in to town (from Corstorphine) and have to change lanes to go down Waverley Bridge. I've seen many cyclists slip, slide & fall though and it would be very harsh to blame them as the ones I've seen have exercised care but they have still come a cropper.
I've cycled in London (well, Croydon actually) & Manchester and there doesn't seem to be half as many problems but the infrastructure is slightly different (proper cycle lanes for a start, the only PROPER cycle lane we have is at Newcraighall).
The council are aware there are some sections of rail that need attention (rail-head proud of road surface) but not a lot seems to have been done as whenever "trams" are mentioned folk seem to bury their heads.

[CropleyWasGod]

Oi why do we always get the blame :greengrin

Easy target, mate :greengrin

Seriously, I generally find that the professional drivers (taxis, buses, big lorries)... ie those whose livelihood depends on staying safe and driving carefully... are considerate of cyclists. However, you know how it works.... pedestrian tourist (who isn't used to our driving on the left) steps out in front of taxi.... driver instinctively swerves... cyclist goes over bonnet or swerves into tram-track.

[HiBremian]

19325


Thought I'd drop this pic in to show how cyclists deal with the trams in Bremen. Yep, clearly needs a "look where you're going" course to use these cycle lanes, but it also needs a "stop hassling cyclists and drive slowly" course for the motorists that can't get past the pootling cyclists :greengrin. Tram drivers have accepted that on this stretch - about 800 metres - they'll be travelling slowly.

[lord bunberry]

19325


Thought I'd drop this pic in to show how cyclists deal with the trams in Bremen. Yep, clearly needs a "look where you're going" course to use these cycle lanes, but it also needs a "stop hassling cyclists and drive slowly" course for the motorists that can't get past the pootling cyclists :greengrin. Tram drivers have accepted that on this stretch - about 800 metres - they'll be travelling slowly.
There's no way the council here would ever do anything that would slow the tram down, even though it seems like a very sensible idea. The tram can only do 20mph anyway.
I might be wrong, but I think there's cycle lanes along the whole tram route in Edinburgh.

[lapsedhibee]

There's no way the council here would ever do anything that would slow the tram down, even though it seems like a very sensible idea. The tram can only do 20mph anyway.
I might be wrong, but I think there's cycle lanes along the whole tram route in Edinburgh.

You are.

[Just Alf]

There's no way the council here would ever do anything that would slow the tram down, even though it seems like a very sensible idea. The tram can only do 20mph anyway.
I might be wrong, but I think there's cycle lanes along the whole tram route in Edinburgh.

There should be but there ain't .... It was crying out for something like that and would have removed a whole load of bikes from some busy roads....


The bit from Haymarket to Balgreen doesn't anything apart from the tracks. :brickwall

[Colr]

19325


Thought I'd drop this pic in to show how cyclists deal with the trams in Bremen. Yep, clearly needs a "look where you're going" course to use these cycle lanes, but it also needs a "stop hassling cyclists and drive slowly" course for the motorists that can't get past the pootling cyclists :greengrin. Tram drivers have accepted that on this stretch - about 800 metres - they'll be travelling slowly.

The ones in Bilbao are set in a strip of grass. Looks reallygood

[lord bunberry]

There should be but there ain't .... It was crying out for something like that and would have removed a whole load of bikes from some busy roads....


The bit from Haymarket to Balgreen doesn't anything apart from the tracks. :brickwall
I was meaning the areas where there are roads. I agree though, a cycle path along that stretch would be helpful.

[Beefster]

This thread is supremely ironic given the number of cyclists killed and injured by drivers who can't look where they are going.

[grunt]

I have no wish to detract from the serious intent of this thread, but this course sounds like a great idea.
They should make it mandatory for all the idiots who think they can read their phones and walk down a busy street at the same time.

:grr:

[Just Alf]

I was meaning the areas where there are roads. I agree though, a cycle path along that stretch would be helpful.Ah... Fair do's... When I first saw there wasn't one I couldn't believe it.
Felt like a huge wasted opportunity.




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[CropleyWasGod]

I have no wish to detract from the serious intent of this thread, but this course sounds like a great idea.
They should make it mandatory for all the idiots who think they can read their phones and walk down a busy street at the same time.

:grr:Hmm... i dunno... it seems to me that natural selection has taken its course. Many of the younger generation seem to have developed an inbuilt sensory device that allows them to weave through crowds whilst posting on FB.

It's a remarkable talent.

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[Colr]

I have no wish to detract from the serious intent of this thread, but this course sounds like a great idea.
They should make it mandatory for all the idiots who think they can read their phones and walk down a busy street at the same time.

:grr:

Do that in London and some bloke on a moped will grab it off you.

One parallel question is that I seem motorcyclists runni g red lights and speeding a hell of a lot. I wondered if they are picked by speed cameras etc or whether they are not sizeable enough to register.

[matty_f]

19325


Thought I'd drop this pic in to show how cyclists deal with the trams in Bremen. Yep, clearly needs a "look where you're going" course to use these cycle lanes, but it also needs a "stop hassling cyclists and drive slowly" course for the motorists that can't get past the pootling cyclists :greengrin. Tram drivers have accepted that on this stretch - about 800 metres - they'll be travelling slowly.

I was in Bremen in September last year and a cyclist took a nasty fall after hitting a tram track. I don't think trams and bikes are especially compatible.

[HiBremian]

I was in Bremen in September last year and a cyclist took a nasty fall after hitting a tram track. I don't think trams and bikes are especially compatible.

You're right Matty. This particular "solution" was to get round the lack of space for a proper cycle path, on a busy shopping street with more cyclists than drivers, but it's still not ideal. Bremen folk grow up with bicycles and tram tracks in their genes, they're usually pretty skilled at dealing with them, but as you saw there are still some nasty accidents. Still, they are far far fewer, and less damaging, than cyclists getting hit by motor vehicles, so on balance I'd prefer folks to use trams than drive cars in the city.


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[ColinNish]

Do that in London and some bloke on a moped will grab it off you.

One parallel question is that I seem motorcyclists runni g red lights and speeding a hell of a lot. I wondered if they are picked by speed cameras etc or whether they are not sizeable enough to register.
Motorcyclists? Where was this?