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1875STEVE
18-08-2017, 11:07 PM
Ok before I start, I'm not saying this is true or I believe it, but.....

To cut a long story short, Ive been involved with the Hibs-Mad website for a number of years.

Over the years there has been a Hearts supporter that has floated about the various boards with the username "Deetox".

He always came across a bit, shall we say eccentric. Harmless bloke, seems decent enough, but always came out with some stuff about money and links he had in football that seemed a bit out there.

Pretty sure he claimed that he was part of the Dundee board(I think), or maybe part of the club in some way at one point.

Anyway, after years of coming across him on the boards, it turns out his name is Bob Jamieson, the guy that tried to buy Hearts a few years back when they went into admin.

Over the last few months, maybe a year, he has been posting on the Dundee board, about them getting a new stadium, as there was some legislation going through westminster about "competition law" that would mean scottish clubs being allowed in to the English Championship.

According to him, The ugly sisters, Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, with a 6th undecided club going with them (and he's been saying it for a while).

I though "naaahhhh"

BUT.

Dundee have revealed plans over a possible move to a new stadium.

He has just posted this:

http://boards.footymad.net/showthread.php?t=38199878

Thoughts??? pie in the sky??

I personally wouldn't want it to happen, it would pretty much mean the end of cup runs and eurpean trips etc.

Not sure what to make of it...

Thecat23
18-08-2017, 11:13 PM
Rubbish, they may get a new stadium or stand. But English clubs will not allow any teams to just start in the championship. Clubs in lower leagues to start would stop it. Plus they don't want or need Scottish teams. This won't happen trust me.

High-On-Hibs
18-08-2017, 11:18 PM
The thought of Scottish clubs playing in the English leagues makes no sense to me whatsoever. The thought of their being a British League horrifies me as well, as like you say, we'd be small fish in a rather large pond.

I'd rather we had less money in a league where we actually matter with the chance of actually winning something, rather than becoming a Reading or Barnsley who let's be honest, in the scheme of things, are a complete and utter irrelevance.

Still, it wouldn't surprise me if plans for this were true. The motive would have absolutely nothing to do with football however.

1875STEVE
18-08-2017, 11:19 PM
Rubbish, they may get a new stadium or stand. But English clubs will not allow any teams to just start in the championship. Clubs in lower leagues to start would stop it. Plus they don't want or need Scottish teams. This won't happen trust me.


I can't see it myself, but he's been going on about it for some time, just interested to know other folks thoughts.

Thecat23
18-08-2017, 11:22 PM
I can't see it myself, but he's been going on about it for some time, just interested to know other folks thoughts.

Honest bud, I've been around many in the game who have spoke about these things and it's a huge no go. The fact he's been talking about it for ages shows he's hoping more than anything. Hibs/Hearts or Dons haven't been invited to any new championship set up. What teams are trying though is promoting our game more not thinking of leaving it.

Could you get him to say when these talks have taken place and who with?

HappyAsHellas
18-08-2017, 11:23 PM
I think this is pie in the sky as competition law is essentially different under Scottish, UK and European laws. The different leagues within the different countries would have to be overseen by a singular regulatory body which as yet, and in the future is highly unlikely to exist. A quick search also reveals that UEFA's FFP law is looking likely to be challenged in the European courts in the not too distant future which could well tie up everything legally wise for a fair period of time. As for Dundee turning over £100 million per season, well, I think this guy has been hitting the bottle big time.

1875STEVE
18-08-2017, 11:23 PM
The thought of Scottish clubs playing in the English leagues makes no sense to me whatsoever. The thought of their being a British League horrifies me as well, as like you say, we'd be small fish in a rather large pond.

I'd rather we had less money in a league where we actually matter with the chance of actually winning something, rather than becoming a Reading or Barnsley who let's be honest, in the scheme of things, are a complete and utter irrelevance.

Still, it wouldn't surprise me if plans for this were true. The motive would have absolutely nothing to do with football however.

If it did happen, scottish football would be goosed imo.

1875STEVE
18-08-2017, 11:30 PM
Honest bud, I've been around many in the game who have spoke about these things and it's a huge no go. The fact he's been talking about it for ages shows he's hoping more than anything. Hibs/Hearts or Dons haven't been invited to any new championship set up. What teams are trying though is promoting our game more not thinking of leaving it.

Could you get him to say when these talks have taken place and who with?

I know you have mate, i was at school with you. :wink:

I was thinking of dm'ing you first to see if you had heard anything before posting.

As for talking to him, I'm not sure if he would speak to me. Ive had a few run ins with him over the years, don't think he likes me.... :hmmm:

CropleyWasGod
18-08-2017, 11:45 PM
As evidenced by his performance in the Hearts saga, Bob Jamieson has little credibility in football terms.

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Thecat23
18-08-2017, 11:46 PM
I know you have mate, i was at school with you. :wink:

I was thinking of dm'ing you first to see if you had heard anything before posting.

As for talking to him, I'm not sure if he would speak to me. Ive had a few run ins with him over the years, don't think he likes me.... :hmmm:

Ahhh right 😁👍🏼

Be good if you could get him to give more details of this if he can. I say keep at him 😉

Ozyhibby
18-08-2017, 11:47 PM
Sounds like fantasy stuff.
Although I've always felt that if if a Scottish club were to go down the legal route to gain access to the uk market they would win. The law of the land trumps the law of football and the English clubs are running a cartel.


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Baw187
19-08-2017, 07:24 AM
Not that I think it has a chance of happening but with the kind of money we'd be exposed too and the set up we have as a club, we'd hardly be a small fish. We clearly wouldn't be a big fish but we'd have as good a chance as the like of Bournemouth or Brighton.

I'm not sure how I feel about it. On one hand it's annoying not being able to complete with **** English teams financially but if we could promote our game better and bring more money in, then that would probably be a better solution.

To that point, games between the OF, Dons, us and Hears need to be on telly much more than (meaning no disrespect) Killie v Celtic!

greenlex
19-08-2017, 07:32 AM
Hearts won't have a 20000 capacity stadium. I don't think Burton Albion have a 20000 stadium and are in the Championship. Neither do QPRor Brentford.

RyeSloan
19-08-2017, 07:37 AM
Hearts won't have a 20000 capacity stadium. I don't think Burton Albion don't have a 20000 stadium and are in the Championship.

Double negative hell [emoji23]

Won't happen unless a Scottish club takes legal action and even then if they won it would be bottom of the pyramid stuff..

greenlex
19-08-2017, 07:44 AM
Double negative hell [emoji23]

Won't happen unless a Scottish club takes legal action and even then if they won it would be bottom of the pyramid stuff..
I added the I don't think after I didn't want to make an arse of myself if they did and didn't remove the don't and made an arse of myself anyway. ������ Is that a quadruple negative Hell ��������

Kaiser1962
19-08-2017, 07:46 AM
Honest bud, I've been around many in the game who have spoke about these things and it's a huge no go. The fact he's been talking about it for ages shows he's hoping more than anything. Hibs/Hearts or Dons haven't been invited to any new championship set up. What teams are trying though is promoting our game more not thinking of leaving it.

Could you get him to say when these talks have taken place and who with?

:agree:

The difference between the English clubs public statements and private comments is a chasm and their public statements dont allude to it happening any time soon!

Old Rangers (and Celtic) tried very hard over the years and got nothing of any consequence. Occassionally someone in the English game would say something positive and the Glasgow press would be all over it when in reality it was the utterances of a dingbat taken out of context.

Never say never but something cataclysmic would have to happen in England for this to be realistic.

Kaiser1962
19-08-2017, 07:49 AM
As evidenced by his performance in the Hearts saga, Bob Jamieson has little credibility in football terms.

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Is that the guy from Peebles?

jgl07
19-08-2017, 07:49 AM
Hearts won't have a 20000 capacity stadium. I don't think Burton Albion have a 20000 stadium and are in the Championship. Neither do QPRor Brentford.
Bournemouth have a 12,000 capacity stadium and are in the Premier League.

So?

frazeHFC
19-08-2017, 08:13 AM
He's quite convincing in his posts but part of me thinks it's just the ramblings of a mad man.

Can't see this ever happening and wouldn't want it to. Yeah Scottish football isn't great but look at the crowds this year, an all time high for the SPFL, and the passion amongst fans up here is incredible. If we have tiny income compared to the likes of Bournemouth, but we actually have the chance to win trophies and have European trips, rather than spend every season fighting for survival with no chance of ever competing, I'd take it any day.

Bostonhibby
19-08-2017, 08:19 AM
There was a figure linked to the yams at the time of their administration, he was referred to as "shoeless Bob" wonder if there's a connection?

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ionahibby
19-08-2017, 09:11 AM
I think we should be allowed into the English set up or at least make it a British league as after all we are Britain rather than an independent country eg winners of Scottish league get promoted to league 1 or something similar where winning Scottish gets you promoted into England. Let's be honest the Scottish game isn't going anywhere fast, a league dominated by Celtic, a repetitive boring league playing Teams 4 times a season and a national team stagnating. Surely a crack at the English league with the money floating about down there would give Scottish football a boost. Fantasy stuff I know but I've always thought it should be allowed.

GreenNWhiteArmy
19-08-2017, 09:46 AM
Imo a fully recognised British league would be the start of a "Team GB" at international level. I'm dead against any of this happening. In fact, i'd gladly see celtic and rangers leave so that we can have our league back for better or worse.

What I would kinda like though is an amalgamation of our league cups. It would bring back interest in to the tournament. Regionalised early rounds then open it up to all clubs. Would love a crack at some of these clubs down south they think they're big time because they're getting a slice of sky tv money pie

GreenLake
19-08-2017, 09:50 AM
There is nothing to worry about leaving but I doubt it will happen. If it did, several clubs would join down south and Hearts would follow years later claiming to be pioneers for some irrelevant and obscure reason.

hibeerealist
19-08-2017, 10:04 AM
There was a figure linked to the yams at the time of their administration, he was referred to as "shoeless Bob" wonder if there's a connection?

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Yes that is Bob Jamieson Boston, he is from Penicuik or at least lived there when his name was linked with "saving Hertz"

1875STEVE
19-08-2017, 10:29 AM
Could you get him to say when these talks have taken place and who with?

I asked.

This was the reply:


The UK Government Bill which requires the English FA to comply fully with UK & EU Competition Law was delayed due to the snap General Election in June will now become law in September.

It’s a Bosman Rule for the clubs.

This will enable six Scottish clubs to enter the English Championship who meet the 20,000 stadium capacity criteria.

Possibly : Aberdeen, Celtic, Hearts, Hibs, Kilmarnock and Rangers. Dundee clubs do not meet the stadium criteria unless they share a new 20,000 capacity stadium. I contacted both Dundee clubs (and Hearts) to make them aware of this six months ago.

The average income for clubs in the EFL is £100 million per season.The EPL is double at £200 million per season.

The Court would not require Scottish clubs to enter at the bottom of the English National League System. The victim of a civil wrong must, so far as the court can, be put in the position it would have been had the wrong not been committed.

The FA have, indeed, been saying NO consistently for over 16 years, the clubs have been wronged continuously since, at least, 2000 when the Act came into force.

Scottish football fans really need to know about this game-changer.

Phil MaGlass
19-08-2017, 10:32 AM
leave the english league for sellik, not interested in joining.

HNA4
19-08-2017, 10:35 AM
Just another polite reminder not to post individual's phone numbers or email details on here please. Thanks.

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?323903-Posting-Personal-Information&p=5144959#post5144959

Ryan69
19-08-2017, 10:51 AM
If it did happen, scottish football would be goosed imo.

Scottish football is already goosed mate.

Baader
19-08-2017, 10:56 AM
Not going to happen.

Hiber-nation
19-08-2017, 10:57 AM
Scottish football is already goosed mate.

Ah right. Do include Hibs in that statement?

1875STEVE
19-08-2017, 11:03 AM
Scottish football is already goosed mate.


I don't think so, It's in pretty good health IMO.

6 teams in the top flight with record breaking ST sales.

Club's outwith the top two spending decent cash on signing players.

And that's without a decent tv deal.

SRHibs
19-08-2017, 11:06 AM
Scottish football is already goosed mate.

Tell that to Slivka, Stokes, Barker etc. I'm personally enjoying football as it is. Granted Celtic are miles ahead, but outside of them it's dead competitive, and we are playing entertaining stuff!

Caversham Green
19-08-2017, 11:08 AM
I asked.

This was the reply:

His comment about the average income for EFL clubs being £100m is rubbish. The average for Championship clubs is probably about £40m and that's inflated by parachute payments for recently relegated sides and one or two bigger clubs. The average for lower league sides is much lower that that.

Phil MaGlass
19-08-2017, 11:31 AM
I don't think so, It's in pretty good health IMO.

6 teams in the top flight with record breaking ST sales.

Club's outwith the top two spending decent cash on signing players.

And that's without a decent tv deal.

I too think it is in good health, only problem is the national team and sellik running away with it, and of course the numpties at the SFA running our game down every opportunity they can
The competition amongst the other clubs is pretty even I think

G B Young
19-08-2017, 11:42 AM
I've believed for many years that a UK league would be a great thing compared to playing the same old opponents four or more times every season. The variety would spice up the game and being Edinburgh-based Hibs would be an especially attractive away game for travelling fans. I'd be happy to see the Scottish Cup and FA Cup formats retained but there would also be scope to liven up the League Cups with cross-border involvement. Can't see it happening any time soon though.

Having attended men's and women's Team GB matches at the London Olympics and thoroughly enjoyed the experience (yes, I know the SFA effectively vetoed Scottish male players taking part) I also think that the only chance of getting back to any level of competitiveness on the international stage would be for a UK team to replace the home nations, but appreciate that's never likely to attract majority support.

NYHibby
19-08-2017, 12:46 PM
I asked.

This was the reply:


The UK Government Bill which requires the English FA to comply fully with UK & EU Competition Law was delayed due to the snap General Election in June will now become law in September.

I don't want to lose my anonymity here, but I used to be one of the people in the government who knew about changes to competition law. I have no idea what he is referring to. I can't think of any UK legislation affecting the application of competition law on the English FA.

Although I am not an expert in the sports specific aspect so maybe I'm forgetting something. There are some exceptions under Chapter I for certain kinds of agreements but those don't involve UK primary legislation.

I'm pretty sure he is loosely paraphrasing this article from 2013:
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/competitions/english/rangers-have-route-into-english-football-by-suing-fa-1-2760303

This recently published book shoots that argument down:
https://global.oup.com/academic/product/principles-and-practice-in-eu-sports-law-9780198793656

Bostonhibby
19-08-2017, 01:10 PM
Yes that is Bob Jamieson Boston, he is from Penicuik or at least lived there when his name was linked with "saving Hertz"[emoji106]

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Ryan69
19-08-2017, 09:52 PM
I don't think so, It's in pretty good health IMO.

6 teams in the top flight with record breaking ST sales.

Club's outwith the top two spending decent cash on signing players.

And that's without a decent tv deal.

Good health compared to what?

Basically Scottish football has no audience outside of Scotland,and anytime a player plays well....gets scooped up for peanuts by Celtic or English lower league clubs.


I just dont see what is so fantastic about that really!

Sky destroyed Scottish football!
Thats why there is bigger tv money in Danish,Swedish,and even Cypriot football these days.

1875STEVE
19-08-2017, 11:16 PM
Good health compared to what?

Basically Scottish football has no audience outside of Scotland,and anytime a player plays well....gets scooped up for peanuts by Celtic or English lower league clubs.


I just dont see what is so fantastic about that really!

Sky destroyed Scottish football!
Thats why there is bigger tv money in Danish,Swedish,and even Cypriot football these days.

When did I say compare it to anything???

English lower leagues have money because of the inflated TV deal, that trickles money down.

And what audience does Swedish, Danish or Cypriot football have outside of their own countries???

You telling me Manuel from Malaga is rushing home from the Malaga v Valencia game to tune in to Mosta v Naxxar or Viborg v AC Horsens? Behave.

Only the top 5 or 6 leagues in the world get any attention from anyone outside their own country. The rest....

Ryan69
20-08-2017, 12:03 AM
When did I say compare it to anything???

English lower leagues have money because of the inflated TV deal, that trickles money down.

And what audience does Swedish, Danish or Cypriot football have outside of their own countries???

You telling me Manuel from Malaga is rushing home from the Malaga v Valencia game to tune in to Mosta v Naxxar or Viborg v AC Horsens? Behave.

Only the top 5 or 6 leagues in the world get any attention from anyone outside their own country. The rest....

Every team you mention....works on a far bigger budget!

Ryan69
20-08-2017, 12:20 AM
When did I say compare it to anything???

English lower leagues have money because of the inflated TV deal, that trickles money down.

And what audience does Swedish, Danish or Cypriot football have outside of their own countries???

You telling me Manuel from Malaga is rushing home from the Malaga v Valencia game to tune in to Mosta v Naxxar or Viborg v AC Horsens? Behave.

Only the top 5 or 6 leagues in the world get any attention from anyone outside their own country. The rest....

If I had the time and chance. I would watch a game from many countries. Top ones would be Scotland,Chile,England,Netherlands,Brazilian,US,Au stralian,Argentinian.
I guarantee that the outlook everywhere is one team league..not interested.

I love watching football....But the advert for Scottish football is shocking!

Can you honestly see anyone winning the league apart from Celtic in the next 10 years?

If so...name them amd why.

1875STEVE
20-08-2017, 02:46 PM
Every team you mention....works on a far bigger budget!

So you know the inner working of the clubs I mentioned and know what their budgets are?? Ok then.

1875STEVE
20-08-2017, 02:53 PM
If I had the time and chance. I would watch a game from many countries. Top ones would be Scotland,Chile,England,Netherlands,Brazilian,US,Au stralian,Argentinian.
I guarantee that the outlook everywhere is one team league..not interested.

I love watching football....But the advert for Scottish football is shocking!

Can you honestly see anyone winning the league apart from Celtic in the next 10 years?

If so...name them amd why.

You never mentioned those countries though, you mentioned Cyprus, Denmark & Sweden??

No Celtic will most likely win all 10,

Danish league for example, FC Copenhagen have won it 11 times in the last 17 years.

Every league in the world is dominated by the same clubs every season, it just so happens that because of Rangers death, Celtic are left on their own. Same would happen everywhere else if one of their biggest clubs went bust.

Ryan69
20-08-2017, 04:03 PM
So you know the inner working of the clubs I mentioned and know what their budgets are?? Ok then.

Of course I dont know the inner workings of these clubs...im probably right however.

Centre Hawf
20-08-2017, 04:19 PM
Of course I dont know the inner workings of these clubs...im probably right however. I think you're both right in some way. I dont know answers to why but there are nations with far less or equal "attention" etc with much higher budgets. Why? Do we take poor tv deals in comparison?

There is something wrong with our game. We do well considering the population size (best attendances per capita i believe) but why do we have teams like Aberdeen who won the Cup Winners Cup pre Sky now can't string two passes together against a team from Cyprus thats name you would struggle to say after a few pints.

ancient hibee
20-08-2017, 08:47 PM
If I had the time and chance. I would watch a game from many countries. Top ones would be Scotland,Chile,England,Netherlands,Brazilian,US,Au stralian,Argentinian.
I guarantee that the outlook everywhere is one team league..not interested.

I love watching football....But the advert for Scottish football is shocking!

Can you honestly see anyone winning the league apart from Celtic in the next 10 years?

If so...name them amd why.
How many times has a club other than Bayern won the German league in the last few years,or Juventus in Italy ,or Basel in Switzerland.It's nothing unusual to have a One horse situation.

Ryan69
20-08-2017, 09:32 PM
How many times has a club other than Bayern won the German league in the last few years,or Juventus in Italy ,or Basel in Switzerland.It's nothing unusual to have a One horse situation.

Difference being there are other teams in Italy like Milan,Lazio,Napoli....that could realistically win it.
Dortmund in Germany.
Not too clued up on Swiss sorry.

But im sure someone else will win Swiss league before someone outside of Celtic win spl.


Sky pretty much destroyed Scottish football....and the best any of us can hope for is to end up bottom of a Europa League group!

Even that is a big ask these days!

NYHibby
21-08-2017, 12:03 AM
.

Every league in the world is dominated by the same clubs every season, it just so happens that because of Rangers death, Celtic are left on their own. Same would happen everywhere else if one of their biggest clubs went bust.

I'd say that MLS is a good counterexample. Something like 8 different teams have won in the past ten years.

NAE NOOKIE
21-08-2017, 01:29 AM
This sounds like nonsense to me, but even if it wasn't can you imagine the outrage in England if six or more Scottish clubs forced their way into the EFL on a legal technicality, which would in effect at the very least force the EFL to re jig their league system and therefore all but relegate 6 clubs to different leagues to make way for them .... we would be figures of hate every time we ventured south of the border.

As for a 20,000 stadium in Dundee ...... even if the two Dundee clubs did amalgamate I couldn't see them filling a 14,000 seater regularly even in the English leagues, never mind a 20,000 seater.

As for Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen .... all three would be entitled to think that a regular place in the English championship wouldn't be beyond them with access to the money available down south and the potential support available to them ... but short of a massive cash injection from some foreign billionaire a regular place in the EPL would be a pipe dream.

As it is, no matter what the doom and gloom merchants say Scottish football is actually on a bit of an upward spiral at the moment, at least off the pitch ... Hibs and Hearts are getting their best crowds in decades and even the smaller clubs seem to have stopped the rot, though the good folk of Perth in particular really need to up their game ... St Johnstone have been doing really well for over three years, have won their first three league games this season and still cant reach 5,000 at home .... so nobody is pretending there isn't still work to be done.

As I said on another thread ..... moaning about Celtic's dominance is a waste of energy, without some club getting a massive cash injection from outside there is next to no chance that their dominance will be challenged in the next 5 to 10 years, if ever. That is why the culture of why and how you support your football club has to change, and in my opinion is changing.