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SChibs
17-08-2017, 01:39 PM
I see the sfa have rescinded Ryan jacks red card. Unsure why to be honest.

High-On-Hibs
17-08-2017, 01:41 PM
I see the sfa have rescinded Ryan jacks red card. Unsure why to be honest.

Really? You don't know?

Spike Mandela
17-08-2017, 01:41 PM
I see the sfa have rescinded Ryan jacks red card. Unsure why to be honest.

LNS chaired the panel and the SFA forgot to show him Jack's headbut.:cb

HoboHarry
17-08-2017, 01:41 PM
Ach, who cares we shafted them lol......

Mr White
17-08-2017, 01:41 PM
I see the sfa have rescinded Ryan jacks red card. Unsure why to be honest.

Because they chucked their toys out the pram and threatened to get the UN involved probably.

SteveHFC
17-08-2017, 01:41 PM
What a joke.

Bostonhibby
17-08-2017, 01:42 PM
I see the sfa have rescinded Ryan jacks red card. Unsure why to be honest.Maybe it's the first time they've had to consider headbutting and strangulation at the same time and as there's no precedent they decided it was okay to do both simultaneously but not separately.

Really looking forward to seeing it becoming a regular part of the season now that it's been ruled okay[emoji6]

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SChibs
17-08-2017, 01:43 PM
Im not sure if I should be laughing cause rangers fans are even more annoyed he was sent off during the game. Or annoyed at the corruption of the sfa

nellio
17-08-2017, 01:43 PM
Clearly headbutts him if you saw the footage on sportscene. Shocking how they can review that and overturn it.

southsider
17-08-2017, 01:44 PM
Did the hertz lad win his appeal ?

Mick O'Rourke
17-08-2017, 01:44 PM
Oh no!!
Cue another statement from club 18-72 demanding the game be replayed.

Golden Bear
17-08-2017, 01:45 PM
Did the hertz lad win his appeal ?

Yip.

The strawberry cakes must be tasting good today.

High-On-Hibs
17-08-2017, 01:46 PM
Oh no!!
Cue another statement from club 18-72 demanding the game be replayed.

They'll get that as well. :rolleyes:

Just waiting for them to tell us that Stokes will be banned for the next 36 league games.

Golden Bear
17-08-2017, 01:48 PM
Actually delighted Jack's red card was rescinded as it will only serve to increase their feeling of injustice.

Heh heh.

:greengrin

Mick O'Rourke
17-08-2017, 01:49 PM
Did the hertz lad win his appeal ?

Isma did win his appeal and i think rightly so.
Maybe time for on the spot video evidence for these possible red card incidents.
An injust sending off cost us the game against Ayr last season,when Bartley was sent off.
His red card was of course rescinded, but we lost that game 2-1.

hibees 7062
17-08-2017, 01:49 PM
Congalves as well . How many red cards need to be rescinded before they have a look at the refs ?

snooky
17-08-2017, 01:51 PM
The one I feel sorry for is Beaton. He had the balls to take the action he thought was necessary and his bosses have hung him out to dry.
How do you think he'll call the next similar incident?
Aye, and I wouldn't blame him.

green day
17-08-2017, 01:53 PM
Congalves as well . How many red cards need to be rescinded before they have a look at the refs ?

Yep, I think thats 3 out of the 5 appeals upheld !

Isma Congalves appeal 100% right IMO, in fact they should have doubled Broadfoots one for being a total ponce.

Least said about Jacks the better - I have never said this before, but.........I kinda hope Hearts win on Saturday (I know, I feel dirty)

HibsNutter
17-08-2017, 01:53 PM
Tbh considering Stokes seems to have got off without punishment at the time or retrospectively, we can't complain with this.

green day
17-08-2017, 01:57 PM
Tbh considering Stokes seems to have got off without punishment at the time or retrospectively, we can't complain with this.

I agree on Stokes, but that just shows up the poor standard of the ref / linesmen.

Back to actual reds, it seems that unless you actually punch someone in the gob or handle the ball on the line that the disciplinary committee takes the side of the player these days. Its hardly a gamble to pay the £1000 appeal fee these days.

Im struggling to remember the last one Hibs lost actually???

High-On-Hibs
17-08-2017, 01:57 PM
Tbh considering Stokes seems to have got off without punishment at the time or retrospectively, we can't complain with this.

Just waiting for the statement....

essexhibee
17-08-2017, 01:57 PM
Shock horror not. SFA caving to the pressure of the orks. It was a clear movement of the head and was definitely a red card.

Agree with post below also - Stokes should have seen red for his scuffle with Tavernier.

Still... 3-2 ya chumps.

snooky
17-08-2017, 02:01 PM
I see the sfa have rescinded Ryan jacks red card. Unsure why to be honest.

That should pour some oil on troubled waters. :rolleyes:

scoopyboy
17-08-2017, 02:01 PM
Tbh considering Stokes seems to have got off without punishment at the time or retrospectively, we can't complain with this.

I take it that it's now too late for Stokes to be given a punishment.

frazeHFC
17-08-2017, 02:03 PM
Actually delighted Jack's red card was rescinded as it will only serve to increase their feeling of injustice.

Heh heh.

:greengrin

This was my first thought. :tee hee:

Keith_M
17-08-2017, 02:08 PM
Anybody got a link to a video of the incident?

AlbertK86
17-08-2017, 02:18 PM
Nobody can be surprised.

When Fyvie got retrospective red at ibrox Halliday didn't headbutt him but did go in with a shocking high tackle then shoulder Fraser heavily in the chest. Zip happened to him.

Jack assaults mcgeoch and then Stokes is definely a red but the corruption within our football is rife.

After all the Lying King is a fit and proper person .... just like Murray green and whyte were

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Sean1875
17-08-2017, 02:18 PM
The SFA have potentially opened a can of worms here.. Jack can clearly be seen motioning his head forwards in video. If this one is rescinded then there's going to be plenty appeals this season for the same thing which will be very closely scrutinised for their result now!

Mick O'Rourke
17-08-2017, 02:24 PM
Yep, I think thats 3 out of the 5 appeals upheld !

Isma Congalves appeal 100% right IMO, in fact they should have doubled Broadfoots one for being a total ponce.

Least said about Jacks the better - I have never said this before, but.........I kinda hope Hearts win on Saturday (I know, I feel dirty)
I do not think you are the only one in that camp.
Could of course be different opinions at other times, depending on the significance of the game(to us)
I did say to a jambo pal in the pub yesterday that i wanted "rAngers not to win" against Hearts:greengrin

If rAngers do lose against Hearts and then they lose heavily to Celtic in September,I fancy Pedro and his not so magic Sombrero will be off.

I do one of those "correct score" cards every week.
Two shots for the hearts game
0-0 and 0-1

I know......probably why i never win the prize.

hibbie02
17-08-2017, 02:25 PM
There are far fewer Red Cards in England as the refereeing standards are much higher. Scottish Refs are a joke. The SFA are about as bad as they don't seem to support the refs, making the whole thing a farce.

ancient hibee
17-08-2017, 02:26 PM
Wonder which former player was on the panel.

Mick O'Rourke
17-08-2017, 02:35 PM
Wonder which former player was on the panel.

I do not know the name of the former player who was on the panel today.
Daryll Broadfoot,football writer and sometime sportsound pundit was on it
He was on Sportsound on Monday night and refused/was unable to comment on the red card appeals,as he said he would be on the panel today.

ancient hibee
17-08-2017, 02:39 PM
I get the impression that a lot of people on here don't realise that the panel is pretty independent of the SFA.

SirDavidsNapper
17-08-2017, 02:41 PM
Absolute ******* joke. Headbutts obviously allowed now.

lapsedhibee
17-08-2017, 02:47 PM
Absolute ******* joke. Headbutts obviously allowed now.
They possibly heard the audio evidence that it wasn't so much a headbutt as Jack offering his head to Stokesy.

Springbank
17-08-2017, 02:48 PM
Like many Hibs fans I wouldn't mind seeing Hearts beat Rangers this weekend.

However, in reality, Hearts are a shambles.

It will be 5-1 to Rangers, just like the 1996 Scottish Cup Final #SpecialRelationship

where'stheslope
17-08-2017, 02:51 PM
There are far fewer Red Cards in England as the refereeing standards are much higher. Scottish Refs are a joke. The SFA are about as bad as they don't seem to support the refs, making the whole thing a farce.

I think its mainly down to the fact they stop and think about it first before carding players.

In Scotland refs just jump in with cards flailing and hope they get it right.

Last weeks game was a case in point, Beaton had around 15 players round him, all were pushing, shoving and making jestures yet he only saw fit to give 1 red card for a head butt?

If ever there was a case for a referee to get his assistants together and ask what they saw that was it!!!

KWJ
17-08-2017, 02:56 PM
There are far fewer Red Cards in England as the refereeing standards are much higher. Scottish Refs are a joke. The SFA are about as bad as they don't seem to support the refs, making the whole thing a farce.

Be surprised if this was true. For starters there are 4 more games a week in the top flight and much more in the lower leagues. But even beyond that I think you're more likely to be given a red for a bad tackle than you are in Scotland.

I have zero stats to back this up with although even with the weekend just past only one of the Scottish ones were for a bad tackle and I think that was actually a second yellow.

Edit - Now if it's violent conduct yer after then the SPFL is yer game!

Bishop Hibee
17-08-2017, 02:57 PM
To be fair to Beaton, Jack was the most aggressive player in the melee by far. I expect Hibs players to be sent off for less this season and not have the red rescinded.

JimBHibees
17-08-2017, 03:00 PM
The one I feel sorry for is Beaton. He had the balls to take the action he thought was necessary and his bosses have hung him out to dry.
How do you think he'll call the next similar incident?
Aye, and I wouldn't blame him.

Agree he undoubtedly gave the right decision and it is bizarrely overturned and as you say hung him out to dry.

greenlex
17-08-2017, 03:03 PM
I do not know the name of the former player who was on the panel today.
Daryll Broadfoot,football writer and sometime sportsound pundit was on it
He was on Sportsound on Monday night and refused/was unable to comment on the red card appeals,as he said he would be on the panel today.
Fairly certain Daryls comment was made with tongue firmly in cheek as he didn't want to dissect the incident for whatever reason.
I think it's the right decision. It was a squaring up and locking horns nothing more. Both equally as culpable. The correct decision at the time would have been a yellow each. We dodged a bullet there.

Dan Sarf
17-08-2017, 03:03 PM
"OK, Darryl, see that bit of footage there where Jack headbutts the Hibs player?"
"I can see it, Vincent. Clear as day."
"No you can't."
"What?"
"You can't see it. It never happened."
"But I can, Vincent! It's the bit after Jack tried to strangle the Hibs boy."
"You like this job, don't you, Darryl."
"Yes, it's a very great honour, Vincent. Have you got something in your eye?"
"You get free tickets for big games, don't you? And lots of other wee... benefits, shall we say?"
"Yes. And I really appreciate them too, Vincent."
"OK, look again, Darryl. And think carefully now. Can you see Jack headbutt the Hibs player?"
"On seconds thoughts, I don't think I can, Vincent."
"What about the strangling?
"Never happened, Vincent. Definitely."
"Good boy, Darryl. Good boy."

SirDavidsNapper
17-08-2017, 03:04 PM
Sevco fans clutching at straws saying they'd have won if Jack hadn't been deservedly sent off. Aye ok. They bottled it when Hibs scored. What will be their excuse when we turn them over at Easter Road?

Scott Allan Key
17-08-2017, 03:08 PM
Sevco fans clutching at straws saying they'd have won if Jack hadn't been deservedly sent off. Aye ok. They bottled it when Hibs scored. What will be their excuse when we turn them over at Easter Road?

Oh, these things even themselves up over the season.

The_Sauz
17-08-2017, 03:11 PM
I'm surprised so many om here were disappointed that the red card was rescinded considering they done the exact same thing when Fat Boy Boyd did the same thing to Foster at Ibrox a few years back :greengrin As the rules state, you just need to go through the motions of a head butt to get a red card! With Boyd, the SFA said their was insufficient evidences, even though it was caught on camera (even a close up ) during the same game, the big hopeless CH got a 2 game ban for aiming a punch at Fontaine.

euro Hibby
17-08-2017, 03:12 PM
I am far from convinced that they would have won. From 20 minutes on , we were well back in the game. In the end Jack gets a 60 minute sin bin . Strange but after all the tears and petitions,
not so surprised. Good bet no rangers player will be sent off for next 8 weeks !

Danderhall Hibs
17-08-2017, 03:14 PM
Fairly certain Daryls comment was made with tongue firmly in cheek


It was definitely said as a joke!

brog
17-08-2017, 03:19 PM
Be surprised if this was true. For starters there are 4 more games a week in the top flight and much more in the lower leagues. But even beyond that I think you're more likely to be given a red for a bad tackle than you are in Scotland.

I have zero stats to back this up with although even with the weekend just past only one of the Scottish ones were for a bad tackle and I think that was actually a second yellow.

Edit - Now if it's violent conduct yer after then the SPFL is yer game!

You don't measure red cards by a total, it's by a ratio of # of red cards to games played. I know about 3 years ago our ratio was double that of English top flight though England was lowest in Europe at that time. Don't know current ratio but suspect England will still be significantly lower than Scotland.
Re Jack's appeal, did The Rangers not win an appeal last season, possibly against a retrospective ban, which should have been a no brainer? Beaton's yellow card for the assault by Garner was also a shocker.

makaveli1875
17-08-2017, 03:20 PM
i guess its good news for hertz then if this useless wee clown will be playing , they will just send in laffin boy to noise him up and he will take the bait again :greengrin

lord bunberry
17-08-2017, 03:46 PM
To be fair to Beaton, Jack was the most aggressive player in the melee by far. I expect Hibs players to be sent off for less this season and not have the red rescinded.
The thing is a precedent has been set with this. I don't think he made contact with Stokes, but in the past that didn't matter. It seems the rules have been changed, and as long as that remains consistent throughout the season then I don't have a problem with red card being rescinded.

hibbie02
17-08-2017, 03:51 PM
Be surprised if this was true. For starters there are 4 more games a week in the top flight and much more in the lower leagues. But even beyond that I think you're more likely to be given a red for a bad tackle than you are in Scotland.

I have zero stats to back this up with although even with the weekend just past only one of the Scottish ones were for a bad tackle and I think that was actually a second yellow.

Edit - Now if it's violent conduct yer after then the SPFL is yer game!

Sorry I was comparing the Prem Leagues in both countries.

Lee0762
17-08-2017, 03:55 PM
I am far from convinced that they would have won. From 20 minutes on , we were well back in the game. In the end Jack gets a 60 minute sin bin . Strange but after all the tears and petitions,
not so surprised. Good bet no rangers player will be sent off for next 8 weeks !

We still woulda pumped them if they had 2 Ryan Jack's.

SirDavidsNapper
17-08-2017, 03:56 PM
Jack reminds me of a limited Ian Black.

makaveli1875
17-08-2017, 03:57 PM
Jack reminds me of a limited Ian Black.

He's like a poor mans Fyvie , and i didnt think Fyvie was all that great

Mick O'Rourke
17-08-2017, 04:08 PM
Fairly certain Daryls comment was made with tongue firmly in cheek as he didn't want to dissect the incident for whatever reason.
I think it's the right decision. It was a squaring up and locking horns nothing more. Both equally as culpable. The correct decision at the time would have been a yellow each. We dodged a bullet there.

Was he not on the judicial panel today then, and just avoiding the topic on Monday's radio show?
If he was on the panel, i would have thought it would be very unlikely he would make judgements on a radio show prior to that.

You last sentence?
A phrase i would not expect to hear from our manager in interviews.
Some would say he should sometimes "bite the bullet" though:greengrin

There is footage from different angles on the nutting incident.
Did the panel view them all? I doesn't appear so.
One clearly shows more than "heads coming together",(which is a ludicrous term in the first place)

givescotlandfreedom
17-08-2017, 04:17 PM
We scored overall as they went down to ten men when either both or neither player between he and Stokes should have walked. Still think Murray's goal should have stood though and whilst the whistle was blown early there was no way Foderingham was saving that.

CentreLine
17-08-2017, 04:23 PM
Sevco fans clutching at straws saying they'd have won if Jack hadn't been deservedly sent off. Aye ok. They bottled it when Hibs scored. What will be their excuse when we turn them over at Easter Road?

Not just at Easter Road but watch out for the faux scandal every time they are beaten. They will have the media concentrate on anything other than their shortcomings. Count on it.

Argylehibby
17-08-2017, 04:37 PM
Does it perhaps depend on what reason Beaton gave for the red card in his report? If he didn't say it was for the head-butt but for the incident with DM would that enable the panel to throw it out? :dunno:

hibby6270
17-08-2017, 05:15 PM
Having got away with this one, the next thing will be a retrospective appeal to get Duncan Ferguson's red card rescinded and have his criminal record quashed.:greengrin::greengrin

18Hibee75
17-08-2017, 05:29 PM
It was a red card all day long. If you quite clearly move your head towards someone on a football pitch you should be sent off. That's not saying stokesy shouldn't have been send off however, just makes it even more funnier though!

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emerald green
17-08-2017, 05:46 PM
Congalves as well . How many red cards need to be rescinded before they have a look at the refs ?

Motherwell defender Charles Dunne had one of the two red cards he received inside a week overturned too (rightly IMO - the St J player dived for a penalty and he was the one who should have been sent off, but what do you expect from Craig Thomson?).

Motherwell failed in a bid to reverse the dismissal of goalie Trevor Carson, also against St J. Handling outside his box. Amazingly, Thomson looked to have got that one right. It may have been on the say so of his assistant though. I'm not sure.

Sir David Gray
17-08-2017, 06:07 PM
When viewing the incident from behind Ryan Jack, you can clearly see him making a forward motion with his head.

Not much in it really but it is a red card.

Onion
17-08-2017, 06:41 PM
Congalves as well . How many red cards need to be rescinded before they have a look at the refs ?

This ! In fact, the SFA should issue a public apology for every red card they rescind simply because of the impact it has on the game and the paying public. What t says about the referees who hand them out... don't get me started.

Onion
17-08-2017, 06:44 PM
The SFA have potentially opened a can of worms here.. Jack can clearly be seen motioning his head forwards in video. If this one is rescinded then there's going to be plenty appeals this season for the same thing which will be very closely scrutinised for their result now!

They need to issue an explanation to the paying public and clubs as to why they think a red was not warranted. May be do ?

Onion
17-08-2017, 06:49 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40967579

And how is this any different to Hearts training with 10 men - and were brought to book by the authorities ?

Silky
17-08-2017, 06:54 PM
I see the sfa have rescinded Ryan jacks red card. Unsure why to be honest.

That's a joke. Footage clearly showed him going in with the head. Beaton was correct imo. I think after the behaviour of Rangers and their bawbag fans that Hibs should challenge the panel's decision. Must be a further tribunal/judicial review mechanism available.

Sir David Gray
17-08-2017, 07:09 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40967579

And how is this any different to Hearts training with 10 men - and were brought to book by the authorities ?

:agree: Robbie Neilson was given a 2 match suspended touchline ban just 2 years ago for publicly stating that he practiced in training with 10 men whenever he found himself in certain situations and with certain officials in charge.

I look forward to Caixinha receiving the same treatment.

BigT-Hibeez
17-08-2017, 07:31 PM
I'm sure I read somewhere that Beaton and the other ref that dished out the red cards have both been demoted to refereeing in the championship this weekend..

Sir David Gray
17-08-2017, 07:36 PM
I'm sure I read somewhere that Beaton and the other ref that dished out the red cards have both been demoted to refereeing in the championship this weekend..

Beaton's doing Dunfermline-Falkirk this weekend.

IGRIGI
17-08-2017, 07:44 PM
Loving how much meltdown we've caused over the past few years at Ibrox,top notch material 😁

BH Hibs
17-08-2017, 07:49 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40967579

And how is this any different to Hearts training with 10 men - and were brought to book by the authorities ?

If Cathro had came out with that everyone in Scotland would've slaughtered him and burst out laughing and rightly so.

Tyler Durden
17-08-2017, 07:51 PM
The thing is a precedent has been set with this. I don't think he made contact with Stokes, but in the past that didn't matter. It seems the rules have been changed, and as long as that remains consistent throughout the season then I don't have a problem with red card being rescinded.

Precedents don't really apply - there is no interest in consistency.

Albeit remember that 3 years ago now (i think?) Kris Boyd clearly head butted Jordon Forster at Ibrox but was found to be "not proven"! They make it up as they go along

BigT-Hibeez
17-08-2017, 07:59 PM
Beaton's doing Dunfermline-Falkirk this weekend.

Houston will be loving that.. Beaton will be reluctant to dish out any reds, knowing he will be monitored closely..

Carheenlea
17-08-2017, 08:06 PM
Sometimes the camera does lie.
From my seat looking right down the line of the incident the butting motion was clear as day. The guys round about me all reacted immediately on seeing it, and the referee was right next to the incident as well. From the standard television pictures it was hard to really see, but one camera from behind opposite end to us showed it a bit clearer, but not as clear as our view. The referee has been undermined big time here, and Beaton must be absolutely livid.

brog
17-08-2017, 08:46 PM
I'm sure I read somewhere that Beaton and the other ref that dished out the red cards have both been demoted to refereeing in the championship this weekend..

It's not necessarily a demotion. All the supposed top refs take several championship games a season. We had Beaton, Thomson & unfortunately Muir a few times in last couple of seasons.

BigT-Hibeez
17-08-2017, 09:17 PM
It's not necessarily a demotion. All the supposed top refs take several championship games a season. We had Beaton, Thomson & unfortunately Muir a few times in last couple of seasons.

Yeah, but the article I read was implying that this was some form of punishment, and it is the 2 refs who were dishing out reds last weekend.. Conspiracy theory time!!

ancient hibee
17-08-2017, 09:34 PM
Yeah, but the article I read was implying that this was some form of punishment, and it is the 2 refs who were dishing out reds last weekend.. Conspiracy theory time!!
That's because the press want to have conflict rather than say that it was just their turn.

There will always be red cards rescinded as long as players cheat particularly in penalty shouts.FIFA has tried to make it easier for refs by differentiating between fouls in the area.

munchar
18-08-2017, 12:22 AM
Like many Hibs fans I wouldn't mind seeing Hearts beat Rangers this weekend.

However, in reality, Hearts are a shambles.

It will be 5-1 to Rangers, just like the 1996 Scottish Cup Final #SpecialRelationship

MANY Hibs fans?
I'm amazed there's as much as 3 here wanting them to win!!
I NEVER EVER want Hearts to win. The only possible scenario would be if them winning was for our benefit.
No, its Hearts beat, preferably emphatically EVERY time they play.

cabbageandribs1875
18-08-2017, 12:58 AM
in my more mature years i don't mind hertz winning 3 or 4 games in the season, coincidentally the 3 or 4 times just happen to be against the one team........the filthy vile govan bigots :agree:








well, maybe drawing they 3 or 4 games is more acceptable :)

Is It On....
18-08-2017, 01:11 AM
Jack reminds me of a limited Ian Black.

Papering over the cracks? 🙄

jax67
18-08-2017, 06:00 AM
When viewing the incident from behind Ryan Jack, you can clearly see him making a forward motion with his head.

Not much in it really but it is a red card.

And that's the view of the referee. I thought it
was all cleared up after Sportscene commentary team
we're all in agreement that it was a straight red, but hey,
what do they or thousands of viewers and the referee know.
Scottish FA, rotten tomatoes.

jax67
18-08-2017, 06:03 AM
Yeah, but the article I read was implying that this was some form of punishment, and it is the 2 refs who were dishing out reds last weekend.. Conspiracy theory time!!

Don't know about a conspiracy, facts are there for
all to see. This stinks from the SFA.

lord bunberry
18-08-2017, 07:29 AM
Precedents don't really apply - there is no interest in consistency.

Albeit remember that 3 years ago now (i think?) Kris Boyd clearly head butted Jordon Forster at Ibrox but was found to be "not proven"! They make it up as they go along
I fear you're correct, but any player accused of the same thing will be able to use this incident as a defence.

staunchhibby
18-08-2017, 07:43 AM
In view of the recent decision regardig Jacks red card being rescinded i wonder if we will see some player take legal action in response to an incident and wonder what the S.F.A reaction will be.looks like the refs are being undermined and how will long will they take that.

Keith_M
18-08-2017, 08:02 AM
in my more mature years i don't mind hertz winning 3 or 4 games in the season, coincidentally the 3 or 4 times just happen to be against the one team........the filthy vile govan bigots :agree:


well, maybe drawing they 3 or 4 games is more acceptable :)


I want a draw, with four sent off from both sides.

Mikey09
18-08-2017, 09:42 AM
So when do we get to the point where the only person to be punished in this whole scenario will be Lennon?! If so you really couldn't make it up. :rolleyes:

edinburghhibee
18-08-2017, 10:21 AM
I wrote something similar on another thread before seeing this one. But, the only thing I can think of is that the ref didn't see the head butt and has given the red for something else and the orcs have challenged the wording of the charge against jack. For instance is the ref thought jack punched Dylan in the first scuffle and has wrote that in the report then the cards been dropped as there was no punch.


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