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CentreLine
16-08-2017, 07:12 AM
I see Stuart Milne is being regularly quoted in sports news items saying Pitodrie may not be fit to host European matches in the near future. There is no explanation about what aspects of the ground will be unsuitable. Personally I think he is just trying to put pressure on the Aberdeen local authority to pass his grand building plans and this is just a ploy.

Does anyone have any better perspective on it?

Hibee87
16-08-2017, 07:14 AM
Maybe he is looking to spend 18+ million on a new stand which still wont be complient, its what big teams do is it not? :dunno:

hughio
16-08-2017, 07:48 AM
His agenda for years now has been to sell Pittodrie which, as a city centre site, is worth hundreds of millions to his house building firm.

As Chairman of AFC a reasonable person might assume he cared for the historical link with the stadium and the ease of access to locals on foot,the emotional bond with the space etc.

But no.
He'd rather shift the Club to a cheap site outside town on a windswept hill where people can drive to ......
Makes perfect sense...to him.


Surprisingly Dons fans are not to keen hence this press campaign.

Bogus.

Hibs07p
16-08-2017, 07:51 AM
He's also bleating (pun intended) about having the worst training facilities in the SFPL, he can build a stand alone training complex, other teams have done it.

GGTTH
Scottish Cup Winners 2016

lapsedhibee
16-08-2017, 07:57 AM
I see Stuart Milne is being regularly quoted in sports news items saying Pitodrie may not be fit to host European matches in the near future. There is no explanation about what aspects of the ground will be unsuitable. Personally I think he is just trying to put pressure on the Aberdeen local authority to pass his grand building plans and this is just a ploy.

Does anyone have any better perspective on it?

It's well known that the schematics there are a problem.

green&left
16-08-2017, 08:00 AM
His agenda for years now has been to sell Pittodrie which, as a city centre site, is worth hundreds of millions to his house building firm.

As Chairman of AFC a reasonable person might assume he cared for the historical link with the stadium and the ease of access to locals on foot,the emotional bond with the space etc.

But no.
He'd rather shift the Club to a cheap site outside town on a windswept hill where people can drive to ......
Makes perfect sense...to him.


Surprisingly Dons fans are not to keen hence this press campaign.

Bogus.

Worth £18m according to a Scotsman article a while back.

Jones28
16-08-2017, 08:01 AM
Pittodrie is a hovel, let's make no mistake about that. But to suggest that the only alternative is to build a £50m complex on the outskirts of Aberdeen is ludicrous. The DD stand is fine, so why can't a phased reconstruction of the whole site be done? There aren't many restrictions on them, especially where the away fans are housed, in terms of space etc.

Like hughio says, something's amiss

WhileTheChief..
16-08-2017, 08:03 AM
I heard him on the radio last night and agree with him completely.

They need a new modern stadium and training facilities, same as we did years ago, and the council block them at every turn.

The council should be doing whatever it can to help them build a cracking modern facility in the city.

I think he was simply making the point that for the city not to have a top class stadium reflects badly on the city itself. He's right.

.Sean.
16-08-2017, 08:13 AM
Pittodrie is a hovel, let's make no mistake about that. But to suggest that the only alternative is to build a £50m complex on the outskirts of Aberdeen is ludicrous. The DD stand is fine, so why can't a phased reconstruction of the whole site be done? There aren't many restrictions on them, especially where the away fans are housed, in terms of space etc.

Like hughio says, something's amiss
I prefer Pittodrie to lifeless stadiums like McDiarmid, St Johnstone or one of those bowls with different coloured seats every other team has down south. Likes of Reading, Swansea, Southampton, Leicester and countless others basically all have the same stadium. Boring.

SirDavidsNapper
16-08-2017, 08:15 AM
Their home support would dwindle if they left Pittodrie and moved to the outskirts of Aberdeen. Unless there's a ulterior motive by Milne why not redevelop Pittodrie?

heretoday
16-08-2017, 08:16 AM
The good people of Westhill don't want a ruddy great football stadium plonked in their midst and who can blame them?

The_Todd
16-08-2017, 08:17 AM
The location of the planned new stadium seems mental though. It'd be like us moving to Straiton, if Straiton was another mile or two out of the city. I get the reasons why, Pittodrie is crumbling and can be sold for big money due to location but still - football is expensive enough a pasttime as it is for fans without making it awkward to get to into the bargain.

hughio
16-08-2017, 08:18 AM
I heard him on the radio last night and agree with him completely.

They need a new modern stadium and training facilities, same as we did years ago, and the council block them at every turn.

The council should be doing whatever it can to help them build a cracking modern facility in the city.

I think he was simply making the point that for the city not to have a top class stadium reflects badly on the city itself. He's right.

I don't know the details and am prepared to apologize if I'm wrong but I've heard nothing about a genuine attempt to upgrade Pittodrie in a way that's compliant.Of course its easy to submit grandiose plans that will never be approved and then bleat about it.Its much easier to imagine a sale and redevelopement out of town as a business plan.

The cynic in me says that if a modernised stadium plan were appoved it would cost a load of money and the only real source of cash is the development value of the city centre site.
It may be worth only £18 million as a site but with litterally hundreds of houses and probably a supermarket to boot it would be worth hundreds of millions once you add in the profits of house sales..Mr Milne's business.

Since90+2
16-08-2017, 08:34 AM
The property market in Aberdeen is on its arse so there is no chance he would be making hundreds of millions profit from Pittodrie , he would probably make a decent few quid but nothing like that.

I would be surprised if the stadium in Westhill is approved , its a pretty well off area and im sure some pretty influential people who live there wont be keen on having a football stadium and everything that brings with it to their area.

Iain G
16-08-2017, 08:34 AM
I don't know the details and am prepared to apologize if I'm wrong but I've heard nothing about a genuine attempt to upgrade Pittodrie in a way that's compliant.Of course its easy to submit grandiose plans that will never be approved and then bleat about it.Its much easier to imagine a sale and redevelopement out of town as a business plan.

The cynic in me says that if a modernised stadium plan were appoved it would cost a load of money and the only real source of cash is the development value of the city centre site.
It may be worth only £18 million as a site but with litterally hundreds of houses and probably a supermarket to boot it would be worth hundreds of millions once you add in the profits of house sales..Mr Milne's business.

I think hundreds of millions in profit is probably a bit of an exaggeration :wink:

I assume, in his head, he is trading the cost of the land and profit from any Pittordie development against the cost of building a new stadium? But the oil and gas market is not in good shape in Aberdeen so where is the money to spend on new flats/houses? If this had happened 5-10 years ago it would have been worth a lot more to Stewart Milne.

Jones28
16-08-2017, 08:42 AM
I prefer Pittodrie to lifeless stadiums like McDiarmid, St Johnstone or one of those bowls with different coloured seats every other team has down south. Likes of Reading, Swansea, Southampton, Leicester and countless others basically all have the same stadium. Boring.

I agree, which is why I would rather they did a phased rebuilding on the current site. Easter road is a modern stadium but I don't think it could be described as soul-less.

SirDavidsNapper
16-08-2017, 08:47 AM
Aberdeen only have themselves to blame for not redeveloping the stadium and building a training ground during the oil boom years. They've missed the boat. They have a hovel of a ground which is soon going to be even worse than Tynecastle and train on a public park while outspending the likes of Hibs and Hearts on players. Now they're desperately seeking planning permission to build elsewhere as the penny drops. No sympathy.

Colr
16-08-2017, 08:49 AM
Pittodrie is a hovel, let's make no mistake about that. But to suggest that the only alternative is to build a £50m complex on the outskirts of Aberdeen is ludicrous. The DD stand is fine, so why can't a phased reconstruction of the whole site be done? There aren't many restrictions on them, especially where the away fans are housed, in terms of space etc.

Like hughio says, something's amiss

Cross subsidy from development?

Jones28
16-08-2017, 08:54 AM
Cross subsidy from development?

What's that?

Hibbyradge
16-08-2017, 08:56 AM
I prefer Pittodrie to lifeless stadiums like McDiarmid, St Johnstone or one of those bowls with different coloured seats every other team has down south. Likes of Reading, Swansea, Southampton, Leicester and countless others basically all have the same stadium. Boring.

Every stadium is lifeless until it's match day, regardless of where it's situated.

I want a comfortable seat with decent legroom and a good view regardless if the stadium looked like the Emirates or the PBS.

stokesmessiah
16-08-2017, 08:58 AM
I think hundreds of millions in profit is probably a bit of an exaggeration :wink:

I assume, in his head, he is trading the cost of the land and profit from any Pittordie development against the cost of building a new stadium? But the oil and gas market is not in good shape in Aberdeen so where is the money to spend on new flats/houses? If this had happened 5-10 years ago it would have been worth a lot more to Stewart Milne.

The oil and gas market is on its arse up here, that is for sure. But it seems to have had no effect on building work, there are new houses and commercial and industrial buildings going up everywhere you turn.

Carheenlea
16-08-2017, 08:58 AM
I prefer Pittodrie to lifeless stadiums like McDiarmid, St Johnstone or one of those bowls with different coloured seats every other team has down south. Likes of Reading, Swansea, Southampton, Leicester and countless others basically all have the same stadium. Boring.

It's good to go to a ground like Pittodrie a couple of times a season for the nostalgic aspect, and the fact it's different to the identikit grounds you highlight, but I wouldn't like to be going there every other week.
The bigger grounds in Scotland at least still have their own identity - Easter Road and Tynecastle both very different, and Celtic and Rangers have great looking grounds that are not alike. Aberdeen can surely redevelop Pittodrie in a similar manner to us and Hearts in the 20,000 seat region. Hope the council does turn them down and they can then bring Pittodrie up to standard instead.

Iain G
16-08-2017, 09:00 AM
The oil and gas market is on its arse up here, that is for sure. But it seems to have had no effect on building work, there are new houses and commercial and industrial buildings going up everywhere you turn.

But are they all sitting empty or actually being bought / filled? :confused:

Sylar
16-08-2017, 09:18 AM
He's also bleating (pun intended) about having the worst training facilities in the SFPL, he can build a stand alone training complex, other teams have done it.

GGTTH
Scottish Cup Winners 2016

He only has himself to blame for that.

When the University were building the Kings Sport Village, Aberdeen FC were approached to be partners in the development, asking for some degree of capital to be put toward the project. The facility is sensational - it has an excellent indoor 4G, full size pitch (which is state of the art), it has excellent gym facilities and quite brilliant sport therapy facilities/employees. Yet Aberdeen wanted nothing to do with it, despite it being a stone's throw from Pittodrie. As a result, I've no sympathy whatsoever for Aberdeen.

Moving the stadium to the outside of the city would be a disaster. Pittodrie in its current form needs a lot of love, as it is falling apart a little. But moving miles out of town would be awful for the Aberdeen fans, and travelling fans. Right now, it's an easy one to get to - plenty of parking, walkable from the centre/train station and has eateries/pubs around about it for pre/post-match. Remove that, and you'll see a relatively empty new shiny stadium.

Billy Whizz
16-08-2017, 09:23 AM
He only has himself to blame for that.

When the University were building the Kings Sport Village, Aberdeen FC were approached to be partners in the development, asking for some degree of capital to be put toward the project. The facility is sensational - it has an excellent indoor 4G, full size pitch (which is state of the art), it has excellent gym facilities and quite brilliant sport therapy facilities/employees. Yet Aberdeen wanted nothing to do with it, despite it being a stone's throw from Pittodrie. As a result, I've no sympathy whatsoever for Aberdeen.

Moving the stadium to the outside of the city would be a disaster. Pittodrie in its current form needs a lot of love, as it is falling apart a little. But moving miles out of town would be awful for the Aberdeen fans, and travelling fans. Right now, it's an easy one to get to - plenty of parking, walkable from the centre/train station and has eateries/pubs around about it for pre/post-match. Remove that, and you'll see a relatively empty new shiny stadium.

I presume they've exhausted all avenues to redevelop Pittodrie?

green&left
16-08-2017, 09:32 AM
He only has himself to blame for that.

When the University were building the Kings Sport Village, Aberdeen FC were approached to be partners in the development, asking for some degree of capital to be put toward the project. The facility is sensational - it has an excellent indoor 4G, full size pitch (which is state of the art), it has excellent gym facilities and quite brilliant sport therapy facilities/employees. Yet Aberdeen wanted nothing to do with it, despite it being a stone's throw from Pittodrie. As a result, I've no sympathy whatsoever for Aberdeen.

Moving the stadium to the outside of the city would be a disaster. Pittodrie in its current form needs a lot of love, as it is falling apart a little. But moving miles out of town would be awful for the Aberdeen fans, and travelling fans. Right now, it's an easy one to get to - plenty of parking, walkable from the centre/train station and has eateries/pubs around about it for pre/post-match. Remove that, and you'll see a relatively empty new shiny stadium.

Yep. The out of town stadiums work well on the continent where they don't have the same bevvy culture as us, they have relaxed licencsing and drinking laws, and when they integrate the stadium into the wider public transport network.

There's a new vid/fly through here. Does look quite impressive, just the location looks a bit ****. Hertz will also be raging as it looks like they'll only have the 2nd largest glass curtain :fuming:

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/news/local/watch-virtual-fly-through-shows-how-new-dons-stadium-could-look/

Geo_1875
16-08-2017, 09:40 AM
No sympathy. They've had years of relative success in one of the richest cities in the country and failed to invest in their infrastructure. Now they are putting pressure on the local authority and will no doubt involve national government at some point. It's what self-proclaimed big teams do.

Liberal Hibby
16-08-2017, 09:43 AM
There really was a touch of the Pieman about Milne's comment about playing European games in the central belt if his plans are not approved. You could almost tell he was itching to say 'not fit for purpose'.

Phil MaGlass
16-08-2017, 09:48 AM
Where they are wanting to build the new stadium is easier to get to and quicker than where they have the old stadium, if I am right in thinking. It would also be easier for alot of their out of town fans to get to by car/bus.

hughio
16-08-2017, 09:51 AM
He only has himself to blame for that.

When the University were building the Kings Sport Village, Aberdeen FC were approached to be partners in the development, asking for some degree of capital to be put toward the project. The facility is sensational - it has an excellent indoor 4G, full size pitch (which is state of the art), it has excellent gym facilities and quite brilliant sport therapy facilities/employees. Yet Aberdeen wanted nothing to do with it, despite it being a stone's throw from Pittodrie. As a result, I've no sympathy whatsoever for Aberdeen.

Moving the stadium to the outside of the city would be a disaster. Pittodrie in its current form needs a lot of love, as it is falling apart a little. But moving miles out of town would be awful for the Aberdeen fans, and travelling fans. Right now, it's an easy one to get to - plenty of parking, walkable from the centre/train station and has eateries/pubs around about it for pre/post-match. Remove that, and you'll see a relatively empty new shiny stadium.

Very interesting post.
Knowing the area,that would have been a brilliant option by the sound of it.

Having taken some soundings from folk who actually do this kinda developement stuff I need to retract my comments about the level of profit available even in a good market.

My beef however is that its easy for a housebuilder /developer to think in terms of sacrificing tradition for profit and justifying it with economics.A football club is more than that.(see that thread with the Hibs colour footage from 1949)

marinello59
16-08-2017, 09:55 AM
The oil and gas market is on its arse up here, that is for sure. But it seems to have had no effect on building work, there are new houses and commercial and industrial buildings going up everywhere you turn.

The houses aren't selling and men are being laid off at the sotes. The commercial property market has crashed. Just look at the waste around the new office buildings at the airport, all those sites were cancelled after the crash. Many of the occupants of the new buildings up there tried to pull out but couldn't, the offices they moved from remain empty and will do for some time.
A good example is the Triple Kirk's development in the City Centre. After years of lying empty the project there finally went ahead as the crash occured. All work was halted after the demolition stage as they realised new office space would never sell. The site now sits abandoned with half hearted plans to build student accommodation there now mentioned.

EricM
16-08-2017, 09:59 AM
I live in Westhill and I'm all for the new stadium, looks great on the video I saw recently, that's definitely a minority opinion though because there's been a lot of No campaign leaflets through my letterbox.

I've never heard a good story about why exactly they can't redevelop pittodrie 1 stand at a time and build a separate training ground. Surely that'd cost less than £50m.

Keith_M
16-08-2017, 10:25 AM
I see Stuart Milne is being regularly quoted in sports news items saying Pitodrie may not be fit to host European matches in the near future. There is no explanation about what aspects of the ground will be unsuitable. Personally I think he is just trying to put pressure on the Aberdeen local authority to pass his grand building plans and this is just a ploy.

Does anyone have any better perspective on it?


I don't think he has any more reason to think that now than at any point in the last 20 years, he's just tryig to push through the planning application. The Planning Permission for the new Stadium is being given a tough time and one of the compalints is that there's no good reason to move from Pittodrie.


TBH, I think the best option would be to build a brand new stadium at their current ground, to keep it in the local community, but I'd imagine the cost of that would be beyond most clubs, even Aberdeen.

NAE NOOKIE
16-08-2017, 10:27 AM
I watched his interview last night and it was clear from the outset that he was trying to put pressure on the council. But having said that I can never understand why councils are so hard to deal with when it comes to football clubs, well most clubs. If it wasn't for their football clubs nobody would know or care where a lot of towns are, let alone want to go there, and Aberdeen is probably somewhere in that mix if you take away the oil industry .... All the place would be known for is a song written by somebody who had never even been there, the fact that Scotty from Star Trek was supposed to have been born there and Aberdeen football club.

Its pretty clear that Aberdeen, in their eyes, cant see a way to improve Pittodrie. The only way to raise a large chunk of the money required is to sell the stadium for development, which is obviously a catch 22 situation. I understand they also have a problem with space at Pittodrie, but I'm not convinced it isn't possible to build stands on the site ... the Dick Donald monstrosity holds 6,000 which leaves 14,000 to find, I cant believe a 6,000 capacity stand is impossible opposite the main one, that would leave them needing a 5,000 capacity main stand and a 3,000 capacity end stand, which would be perfect for away fans.

In fact, the footprint of the terrace opposite the main stand looks bigger than the main stand one, why not build a new main stand on that side of the stadium. I think the problem with redevelopment of Pittodrie is cash not space, look at the centre of any big city, if you cant build out the way build up the way ... the only thing stopping Aberdeen is that their willingness and ability to put a decent team on the park ( look at their signings this season ) isn't matched by their willingness and ability to find the money to redevelop Pittodrie.

I'm willing to bet a lot of Dons fans would agree with me and could cite Easter Road as an example ........ I highly doubt the footprint of our main stand is any bigger than the footprint of their covered terrace and their version of our east stand could be built on two decks of 3,000 each, which would solve the space issue on the current main stand side of the ground.

Alfiembra
16-08-2017, 11:52 AM
I heard him on the radio last night and agree with him completely.

They need a new modern stadium and training facilities, same as we did years ago, and the council block them at every turn.

The council should be doing whatever it can to help them build a cracking modern facility in the city.

I think he was simply making the point that for the city not to have a top class stadium reflects badly on the city itself. He's right.



Not entirely correct they did have a scheme approved in Loirston a few years back with talk of sharing facilities with Cove Rangers but AFC or Stuart Milne decided not to go ahead with it.

marinello59
16-08-2017, 12:21 PM
Not entirely correct they did have a scheme approved in Loirston a few years back with talk of sharing facilities with Cove Rangers but AFC or Stuart Milne decided not to go ahead with it.

Th Council did everything they could do to make that scheme happen. Milne quietly dropped it when it was as made clear that the council wouldn't be paying for it.

WhileTheChief..
16-08-2017, 12:26 PM
Why should Aberdeen share with Cove? They did the right thing back then.

I hope they get the planning permission they require. A brand new stadium there will be excellent.

I just wish Motherwell, Dundee Utd etc could do the same. New modern stadiums look so much better and would help bring the game into this century.

Look at some of the crumbling stadiums around the country, they're totally minging.

marinello59
16-08-2017, 12:27 PM
I live in Westhill and I'm all for the new stadium, looks great on the video I saw recently, that's definitely a minority opinion though because there's been a lot of No campaign leaflets through my letterbox.

I've never heard a good story about why exactly they can't redevelop pittodrie 1 stand at a time and build a separate training ground. Surely that'd cost less than £50m.

The footprint at Pottodrie is too small. They had the option of buying the old gasworks next to Pittodrie but passed on it when they thought the Goverment was going to buy them a new stadium at Kingswells as part of a failed Euro bid. A bit of a theme here, they want to move but do not want to pay for it themselves.
He'll mend them, I'd leave them to rot at Pittodrie.

marinello59
16-08-2017, 12:31 PM
Why should Aberdeen share with Cove? They did the right thing back then.

I hope they get the planning permission they require. A brand new stadium there will be excellent.

I just wish Motherwell, Dundee Utd etc could do the same. New modern stadiums look so much better and would help bring the game into this century.

Look at some of the crumbling stadiums around the country, they're totally minging.

Why should Aberdeen share with Cove? They were using Cove as a Trojan horse so they could claim it was a community stadium which the council could pay for. They didn't give Cove a second thought when they dropped the plan leaving them having to play home games at Huntly and Inverurie whilst their delayed plans for a new home are put in place.

Spudster
16-08-2017, 12:34 PM
The good people of Westhill don't want a ruddy great football stadium plonked in their midst and who can blame them?
Can only assume you've never been to Westhill? Ugly industrial sites as far as the eye can see, a giant Tesco, a giant Costco then bizarrely lots of (Stewart Milne style) expensive houses in cul de sacs. Along with Bridge Of Don up here it's got about as much soul as Livingston.

WhileTheChief..
16-08-2017, 01:03 PM
Why should Aberdeen share with Cove? They were using Cove as a Trojan horse so they could claim it was a community stadium which the council could pay for. They didn't give Cove a second thought when they dropped the plan leaving them having to play home games at Huntly and Inverurie whilst their delayed plans for a new home are put in place.

Struggle to give a damn about Huntley or Cove if I'm honest. Don't even know where they are or what league there in!!

I'm all for progress though. Can't see why everyone want Aberdeen to be stuck in the dark ages.

marinello59
16-08-2017, 01:58 PM
Struggle to give a damn about Huntley or Cove if I'm honest. Don't even know where they are or what league there in!!

I'm all for progress though. Can't see why everyone want Aberdeen to be stuck in the dark ages.

Aberdeen didn't give a damn about Cove either. They are a Highland League club as it happens. Not worth you bothering about. :greengrin
It's in Aberdeen's own hands to sort themselves out just like Hibs did.
Do you also want to see Hearts given more Council assistance and tax payers money to get out of the dark ages? They had plenty of assistance for their last two proposed moves and walked away from both.

snooky
16-08-2017, 02:09 PM
Can only assume you've never been to Westhill? Ugly industrial sites as far as the eye can see, a giant Tesco, a giant Costco then bizarrely lots of (Stewart Milne style) expensive houses in cul de sacs. Along with Bridge Of Don up here it's got about as much soul as Livingston.

Ouch! :lips seal

WhileTheChief..
16-08-2017, 02:31 PM
I actually do think the council should help out where possible.

To be clear though, I don't mean financially, but if they can assist with planning etc then I'd expect them to do so. Even if it's Hearts.

jacomo
16-08-2017, 02:40 PM
Why should Aberdeen share with Cove? They did the right thing back then.

I hope they get the planning permission they require. A brand new stadium there will be excellent.

I just wish Motherwell, Dundee Utd etc could do the same. New modern stadiums look so much better and would help bring the game into this century.

Look at some of the crumbling stadiums around the country, they're totally minging.


Could the Dundee clubs share a ground?

Spudster
16-08-2017, 02:46 PM
I actually do think the council should help out where possible.
Aberdeen Council can barely get themselves assembled let alone help their constituents or local business!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39959841

Smartie
16-08-2017, 02:51 PM
If Hearts can build a stadium on land as restricted as Tynecastle, why shouldn't Aberdeen manage it?

Could they not have an end that is safe standing? Could they not make the rake of the stand steep like Tynecastle?

They're just another Scottish football club that is brimming with entitlement, not prepared to make the sacrifices necessary to bring their infrastructure into the modern era.

They're waiting for someone else to pay for them to build an uber-stadium and they'll be waiting a long time.

If they make a few sacrifices by way of playing budget and expectations for what they can build on a restricted site, they could have a perfectly acceptable stadium at Pittodrie.

Could they not even knock the whole thing down and start again, using the space the Dick Donald stand sits on to better effect?

green&left
16-08-2017, 02:53 PM
If Hearts can build a stadium on land as restricted as Tynecastle, why shouldn't Aberdeen manage it?

Could they not have an end that is safe standing? Could they not make the rake of the stand steep like Tynecastle?

They're just another Scottish football club that is brimming with entitlement, not prepared to make the sacrifices necessary to bring their infrastructure into the modern era.

They're waiting for someone else to pay for them to build an uber-stadium and they'll be waiting a long time.

If they make a few sacrifices by way of playing budget and expectations for what they can build on a restricted site, they could have a perfectly acceptable stadium at Pittodrie.

Could they not even knock the whole thing down and start again, using the space the Dick Donald stand sits on to better effect?

TBF thats exactly what they're doing is it not? :confused:

WhileTheChief..
16-08-2017, 03:04 PM
Could the Dundee clubs share a ground?

That's a tricky one.

From a commercial point of view they probably should. Common sense would dictate that having 2 stadiums next door to each other is madness.

When did common sense ever apply to football fans though?! I can't imagine there are many fans of either club that would be in favour it but who knows.

Personally I think both clubs are big enough to each have their own stadium. Thankfully it's not something I need to worry about as we already have a tremendous stadium fully owned by ourselves (even better when we do the corners):cb

NAE NOOKIE
16-08-2017, 03:27 PM
If Hearts can build a stadium on land as restricted as Tynecastle, why shouldn't Aberdeen manage it?

Could they not have an end that is safe standing? Could they not make the rake of the stand steep like Tynecastle?

They're just another Scottish football club that is brimming with entitlement, not prepared to make the sacrifices necessary to bring their infrastructure into the modern era.

They're waiting for someone else to pay for them to build an uber-stadium and they'll be waiting a long time.

If they make a few sacrifices by way of playing budget and expectations for what they can build on a restricted site, they could have a perfectly acceptable stadium at Pittodrie.

Could they not even knock the whole thing down and start again, using the space the Dick Donald stand sits on to better effect?

Kind of what I was saying in my longer :greengrin post.

Aberdeen could build a perfectly decent 20,000 seater on the Pittodrie site in my opinion .... like too many clubs they ignored the infrastructure chasing trophies until the infrastructure couldn't be ignored any more and now that's happened they are moaning about not having the money. If the Yams can find 12 to 15 million quid anybody can.

Smartie
16-08-2017, 03:36 PM
TBF thats exactly what they're doing is it not? :confused:

Down to opinion really. I'm sure they want to bring their ground up to scratch, they just don't appear to be prepared to put their hands in their pockets for it, expecting the council to pay for it. Sometimes (as we know) you need to divert funds away from your first team to pay for up-to-date facilities.


Kind of what I was saying in my longer :greengrin post.

Aberdeen could build a perfectly decent 20,000 seater on the Pittodrie site in my opinion .... like too many clubs they ignored the infrastructure chasing trophies until the infrastructure couldn't be ignored any more and now that's happened they are moaning about not having the money. If the Yams can find 12 to 15 million quid anybody can.

Sorry, I realise I pretty much copied your point. Fans don't seem to be able to accept "perfectly decent" though, expecting their new baby to be the biggest and most beautiful in spite of whatever restrictive conditions are placed.

And re the bit in bold - absolutely. Let's see if they can manage this without stiffing any small businesses, charities, Lithuanian pensioners or Scott Wilson this time though.


I guess i'm also not a fan of the out of town grounds. I don't want to see Pittodrie go, and there's a big bit of me that is very happy that Hearts got to stay at Tynecastle, far and away my favourite away ground.......

:tin hat:

McD
16-08-2017, 06:05 PM
Hibs, Hearts, and others have had to and been able to update and modernise their stadia, for the most part without much council support beyond planning. What makes aberdeen different?

It surely wouldn't cost £50m to build a whole new stadium. Perhaps they could do what Celtic and now Tottenham are doing, move out for a season, knock it down completely and build it without needing to accomodate matches.

stokesmessiah
16-08-2017, 06:18 PM
The biggest problem with Aberdeens proposed new development is there complete and utter inability to put a cohesive argument together. Thought a friend I have heard quite a lot of the goings on via George Yule and frankly it's been a shambles. There is no getting away from the fact that they need a decent facility but the half arsed manner in which they have tried to sell it to the local community is what's shooting them in the ass. They have not addressed any of the concerns of the nay Sayers in Westhill and instead are lumping with arguments like "we will have to play I the central belt" !

Sylar
16-08-2017, 07:18 PM
That's a tricky one.

From a commercial point of view they probably should. Common sense would dictate that having 2 stadiums next door to each other is madness.

When did common sense ever apply to football fans though?! I can't imagine there are many fans of either club that would be in favour it but who knows.

Personally I think both clubs are big enough to each have their own stadium. Thankfully it's not something I need to worry about as we already have a tremendous stadium fully owned by ourselves (even better when we do the corners):cb

Lazio, Roma, Inter and AC Milan are all far bigger clubs (with far bigger rivalries) than the Dundee duo, and they respectively share stadia without any problems.

There's absolutely no reason whatsoever that the Dundee clubs couldn't share a stadium IMO, and the entire area surrounding Dens and Tannadice (which is one of the least aesthetic parts of Dundee) could be redeveloped accordingly.

It was announced today that Dundee is to be home of a major sporting centre, which would serve the needs of both clubs with regard to training facilities, very well indeed. But once again, the clubs have historically been resistant to joining forces with the Universities in the city, and as a result train either at the crappy astroturf next to both stadiums or at the various pitches around the city. Which is mind-boggling with the excellent facilities at Riverside.

MyJo
16-08-2017, 07:18 PM
If Aberdeen where to redevelop pittodrie it would cost them millions, put the club back into debt and affect thier squad budget for years. The same goes for building training facilities, which will cost money to put in place but isnt income generating like the stadium.

They are sitting on land that they can sell that will give them enough money to build a modern stadium and dedicated training facilities that a club of thier stature should have (if our league and scottish footbal overall is to push on and be seen as something more than the EPL's third rate cousin) without affecting thier ability to put a good team together and continue to compete at the top of the table and in europe.

They are in the same position that we found ourselves when the proposed Straiton move was being considered. We opted to stay at Easter Road and our stadium development and training facilities were funded by selling spare land to builders and developing then selling our best players to other clubs while maintaining a strict budget on the playing side. That resulted in some woeful players and managers joining our club over the last 15 years culminating in our relegation.

We got extremely lucky with the money we generated from the car park and then the golden generation and some of the risks we took with managers and players paying off resulting in money generating cup wins/runs but even with those we suffered for over a decade to pay for our stadium and training facilities.

I don't blame Aberdeen at all for wanting to avoid this scenario and have a potentially s*** team for the next 20 years so they can stay at Pittodrie when the option is there to get everything they want as a modern football club now while maintaining the quality on the pitch. It's the better option for them and for scottish football as a whole IMO. Good luck to them with it.

Jones28
16-08-2017, 07:21 PM
Could the Dundee clubs share a ground?

Easily, particularly given how close their current grounds are. If Inter and AC Milan can share then the Dundee clubs can.

Tyler Durden
16-08-2017, 09:14 PM
If Aberdeen where to redevelop pittodrie it would cost them millions, put the club back into debt and affect thier squad budget for years. The same goes for building training facilities, which will cost money to put in place but isnt income generating like the stadium.

They are sitting on land that they can sell that will give them enough money to build a modern stadium and dedicated training facilities that a club of thier stature should have (if our league and scottish footbal overall is to push on and be seen as something more than the EPL's third rate cousin) without affecting thier ability to put a good team together and continue to compete at the top of the table and in europe.

They are in the same position that we found ourselves when the proposed Straiton move was being considered. We opted to stay at Easter Road and our stadium development and training facilities were funded by selling spare land to builders and developing then selling our best players to other clubs while maintaining a strict budget on the playing side. That resulted in some woeful players and managers joining our club over the last 15 years culminating in our relegation.

We got extremely lucky with the money we generated from the car park and then the golden generation and some of the risks we took with managers and players paying off resulting in money generating cup wins/runs but even with those we suffered for over a decade to pay for our stadium and training facilities.

I don't blame Aberdeen at all for wanting to avoid this scenario and have a potentially s*** team for the next 20 years so they can stay at Pittodrie when the option is there to get everything they want as a modern football club now while maintaining the quality on the pitch. It's the better option for them and for scottish football as a whole IMO. Good luck to them with it.

Sorry but that's a totally revisionist view of Hibs recent history. We didn't suffer for over a decade due to funding our facilities and stadium. Firstly we haven't suffered for a decade - pick any 10 year rolling period from the last 25 and they'd be broadly consistent with Hibs historic performance.

Secondly - the poor results over a prolonged period weren't due to hardship generated by funding infrastructure. At any point in that period we would still be in the top 6 or 7 for budget.... any suffering was caused by mismanagement, pure and simple

oneone73
17-08-2017, 08:28 AM
Easily, particularly given how close their current grounds are. If Inter and AC Milan can share then the Dundee clubs can.

The crux for me would be the pitches. Our climate doesn't really allow for grass pitches to be played on every single week. Would work with a plastic pitch, but who wants that?

jacomo
17-08-2017, 08:38 AM
The crux for me would be the pitches. Our climate doesn't really allow for grass pitches to be played on every single week. Would work with a plastic pitch, but who wants that?


Fair point, but a single stadium would probably justify investment in a high spec hybrid surface with growing lights.

Jones28
17-08-2017, 08:45 AM
The crux for me would be the pitches. Our climate doesn't really allow for grass pitches to be played on every single week. Would work with a plastic pitch, but who wants that?

True, though with the money generated from selling one site and rebuilding on the other I wonder if they could afford a hybrid pitch

oneone73
17-08-2017, 08:58 AM
True, though with the money generated from selling one site and rebuilding on the other I wonder if they could afford a hybrid pitch

True, but would you still be able to play on it 48 weeks a year? I genuinely don't know.

hibsboy07
17-08-2017, 12:17 PM
Aberdeen have been wanting to leave pittodrie site for 20years now it appears they have got to move as ground is no longer suitable.
Stewart Milne trying to scaremonger council into approving plans by saying McInnes will leave and the would have to play European games in central belt what rubbish.
As for sharing a ground with Cove that was never the plan,both clubs were offered land at loirsten Cove agreed and is in process of being built Aberdeen refused.

hughio
18-08-2017, 11:19 AM
Sorry but that's a totally revisionist view of Hibs recent history. We didn't suffer for over a decade due to funding our facilities and stadium. Firstly we haven't suffered for a decade - pick any 10 year rolling period from the last 25 and they'd be broadly consistent with Hibs historic performance.

Secondly - the poor results over a prolonged period weren't due to hardship generated by funding infrastructure. At any point in that period we would still be in the top 6 or 7 for budget.... any suffering was caused by mismanagement, pure and simple

This could turn into an exam question:

"Do you agree with My Jo or is Tyler right about that being a "revisionist" view?Explain your answer with examples"



IMO we were very fortunate to have a great crop of sellable players at the right time and the management of that into new facilities was well done.Over that period however and for some time after developement things were bad from the footballing perspective.

Thankfully we are now back with a great manager great squad and great facilities.


:flag::flag::flag:

MWHIBBIES
18-08-2017, 11:32 AM
Lazio, Roma, Inter and AC Milan are all far bigger clubs (with far bigger rivalries) than the Dundee duo, and they respectively share stadia without any problems.

There's absolutely no reason whatsoever that the Dundee clubs couldn't share a stadium IMO, and the entire area surrounding Dens and Tannadice (which is one of the least aesthetic parts of Dundee) could be redeveloped accordingly.

It was announced today that Dundee is to be home of a major sporting centre, which would serve the needs of both clubs with regard to training facilities, very well indeed. But once again, the clubs have historically been resistant to joining forces with the Universities in the city, and as a result train either at the crappy astroturf next to both stadiums or at the various pitches around the city. Which is mind-boggling with the excellent facilities at Riverside.

There are huge problems with them sharing stadiums and all 4 are planning to move out asap.

WhileTheChief..
18-08-2017, 05:40 PM
Dundee plan for new stadium. Hope the council help them :wink:

http://www.scotsman.com/dundee/dundee-submit-plans-for-new-stadium-in-camperdown-park-1-4536188

tamig
18-08-2017, 06:46 PM
This could turn into an exam question:

"Do you agree with My Jo or is Tyler right about that being a "revisionist" view?Explain your answer with examples"



IMO we were very fortunate to have a great crop of sellable players at the right time and the management of that into new facilities was well done.Over that period however and for some time after developement things were bad from the footballing perspective.

Thankfully we are now back with a great manager great squad and great facilities.


:flag::flag::flag:
Every manager was backed by the board but the signings were generally poor. Simple as that.