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View Full Version : Which Hibs players would have had a shout at getting into the Tornadoes team?



Hibbyradge
09-08-2017, 05:05 PM
Inspired by our new poster, Ingsh, I thought it might be interesting to consider who has played for Hibs since the 70's that might have got a game for Turnbull's Tornadoes.

I'll use the 1972/73 squad for reference and in case you've lost your memory, the team was;

Jim Herriot
John Brownlie
Erich Schaedler
Pat Stanton
Jim Black
John Blackley
Alex Edwards
Jimmy O’Rourke
Alan Gordon
Alex Cropley
Arthur Duncan

The rest of the squad was made up of;

Jim McArthur
Bobby Robertson

Derek Spalding

Des Bremner
John Hamilton
John Hazel Scotland
Tony Higgins
Billy McEwan
Bobby Smith

(If I've got that wrong, please let me know and I'll correct it).

So who would think would improve that team and who would you remove to accommodate them?

Same goes for the squad.

MKHIBEE
09-08-2017, 05:13 PM
Awww come on man, every Hibee alive now has the 2016 legends to salivate over, us oldies had the Tornadoes up until May 2016 and you want us to choose?

I was never a big fan of Jim Black so I would bump him for Paul Hanlon, the rest are my boyhood heroes and no way would I swap any of them ( I'm talking about the first team as listed )

ancient hibee
09-08-2017, 05:33 PM
Probably Hanlon or MacGregor and Marciano.

Slavers
09-08-2017, 05:37 PM
Frank Sauzee?

superfurryhibby
09-08-2017, 05:47 PM
Probably better asking who from the current squad would have a sniff of getting in the team. Most of our mainstays, like Marciano, McGregor, Hanlon, McGinn would add to Turnbull's squad. Very good 1st 11, but not much strength in depth, hence part of the reason why the Tornadoes came second too often.

Black and Herriot would have done well keep their places.Not sure many others would have been challenged as strongly for their starting place though.

Hibbycol
09-08-2017, 07:09 PM
Awww come on man, every Hibee alive now has the 2016 legends to salivate over, us oldies had the Tornadoes up until May 2016 and you want us to choose?

I was never a big fan of Jim Black so I would bump him for Paul Hanlon, the rest are my boyhood heroes and no way would I swap any of them ( I'm talking about the first team as listed )Agree ,come on !!! Let all hibs legends to different generations live in the memories past present and future be [emoji106].

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Hibbyradge
09-08-2017, 07:28 PM
What's wrong with discussing a best ever Hibs team? It's not about legends.

In my view, I'd be trying to fit Goram, Sauzee, Latapy and Riordan into that team, but it wouldn't be easy.

Hibbycol
09-08-2017, 07:31 PM
What's wrong with discussing a best ever Hibs team?

In my view, I'd be trying to fit Goram, Sauzee, Latapy and Riordan into that team, but it wouldn't be easy.Nothing wrong with it [emoji106].just means I won't get any sleep turmoiling who to put in and who leave out lol

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Bostonhibby
09-08-2017, 07:36 PM
I'm going to say no one but would have Riordan Jones & Murphy on the bench.

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Stantons Angel
09-08-2017, 09:19 PM
Crikey id have to say not one of our cup winning side or the side we have at present would have gotten anywhere near the Tornadoes first team.

If i had to pick anyone from previous teams that would have added anything to them it would have to be Sauzee!

IMO he is the only player good enough to have worn Pat Stanton's No4 jersey.

Many may say that Herriot and Black were the least talented of that side but they were stalwarts in their own rights.

In Schaedler and Brownlie we had the best two attacking backs in Scotland, complimented by Blackley's no nonsense tackling and reading of the game.

Our midfield then was so talented that even SJM would struggle to oust Edwards or Cropley and no one could compete with Stanton in any way possible!

In Gordon, Duncan & ORourke we had free scoring players who terrorised every defence in the league.

As another poster said it really is down to the generation you were brought up in and the team as it was then.

Turnbull's Tornadoes were the team that i grew up with and always be thee best!

Hibbycol
09-08-2017, 09:23 PM
Crikey id have to say not one of our cup winning side or the side we have at present would have gotten anywhere near the Tornadoes first team.

If i had to pick anyone from previous teams that would have added anything to them it would have to be Sauzee!

IMO he is the only player good enough to have worn Pat Stanton's No4 jersey.

Many may say that Herriot and Black were the least talented of that side but they were stalwarts in their own rights.

In Schaedler and Brownlie we had the best two attacking backs in Scotland, complimented by Blackley's no nonsense tackling and reading of the game.

Our midfield then was so talented that even SJM would struggle to oust Edwards or Cropley and no one could compete with Stanton in any way possible!

In Gordon, Duncan & ORourke we had free scoring players who terrorised every defence in the league.

As another poster said it really is down to the generation you were brought up in and the team as it was then.

Turnbull's Tornadoes were the team that i grew up with and always be thee best!RIGHT you ootside ,stripped to the waist ,square go . Nobody could lace MR STANTONS slippers never mind his boots .[emoji16]

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Barman Stanton
09-08-2017, 09:26 PM
I'm sure Stanton said once that Sauzee and Latapy would get in the Turnbulls Tornados.

But surely Goram would get a game in goal, best Scottish goalkeeper probably.

BSEJVT
09-08-2017, 09:44 PM
As others have said Marciano would have a chance of ousting Heriott but Jim will be well into his 70's by now, presuming he is still alive.

I really like Paul Hanlon but football was a lot more rigorous then so only Darren might have had a shot at replacing Jim Black.

Having seen every Hibs team since then I can unequivocally say that no-one (and I mean absolutely no-one including Sauzee and Latapy) is worthy of consideration at replacing any of the others.

The only others I can think of over that entire period who are even worth debating would be David Murphy & Sparky but I would still keep Schaedler & O'Rourke.

Sauzee could never replace Pat Stanton and I would not swap Latapy for either Cropley or Edwards.

Liberal Hibby
09-08-2017, 11:10 PM
Bobby Smith and European Cup winner Des Bremner on the bench doesn't suggest weakness to me. It's difficult to see almost anyone other than Best or Archibald getting a look in.

Hibbyradge
09-08-2017, 11:20 PM
I completely forgot about Best and Archibald.

monktonharp
09-08-2017, 11:23 PM
to be honest, If we had some of the players we have this present day.............and even if they were back-ups, the Tornadoes WOULD have won the league, which they should have done! the main problem that cursed us was Brownlie's injury and Edwards' ridiculous 8 week ban. there were a couple of other things but these were the things that denied us winning the league then. we had to deal with an excellent Celtic team, but also when we were 3 goals up (or maybe 2 at Celtic park,) the match was abandoned due to fog. 10 mins later when I got outside, the fog had gone !!! Hibernian played some scintillating fitba' during that period, and no one can deny it.

monktonharp
09-08-2017, 11:25 PM
I completely forgot about Best and Archibald.Best and Archibald were not around, when our best Turnbull team was

monktonharp
09-08-2017, 11:27 PM
As others have said Marciano would have a chance of ousting Heriott but Jim will be well into his 70's by now, presuming he is still alive.

I really like Paul Hanlon but football was a lot more rigorous then so only Darren might have had a shot at replacing Jim Black.

Having seen every Hibs team since then I can unequivocally say that no-one (and I mean absolutely no-one including Sauzee and Latapy) is worthy of consideration at replacing any of the others.

The only others I can think of over that entire period who are even worth debating would be David Murphy & Sparky but I would still keep Schaedler & O'Rourke.

Sauzee could never replace Pat Stanton and I would not swap Latapy for either Cropley or Edwards.:agree:

Hibbyradge
09-08-2017, 11:38 PM
Best and Archibald were not around, when our best Turnbull team was

Obviously, but that's the point of the question.

On your other point, Hibs were winning 2-0 when the fog came down at Parkhead. The replay ended 1-1.

snooky
09-08-2017, 11:44 PM
Tornados were as close as we've come to having a perfect team, IMO.
The only positions I would (hypothetically) change would be goalkeeper & CH.
The rest of the players in that team could hold their own against any player since.

Replacements? I dunno. Goram in goals and possibly Franck or Darren at CH? :dunno:

Hibbycol
09-08-2017, 11:49 PM
to be honest, If we had some of the players we have this present day.............and even if they were back-ups, the Tornadoes WOULD have won the league, which they should have done! the main problem that cursed us was Brownlie's injury and Edwards' ridiculous 8 week ban. there were a couple of other things but these were the things that denied us winning the league then. we had to deal with an excellent Celtic team, but also when we were 3 goals up (or maybe 2 at Celtic park,) the match was abandoned due to fog. 10 mins later when I got outside, the fog had gone !!! Hibernian played some scintillating fitba' during that period, and no one can deny it.9th of Dec 1972 -beat tic 2-1 to win the league cup, following game beat ayr Utd 8-1 ,then go to tiny wee castle and hump them 7-0 . That was the class of the TORNADOES. My favourites,my heroes, my era, EVERYBODY has theirs ,but that's the love of HIBS ,each generation of Hibbys following their particular heroes ,nae rights nae wrongs just GREEN AND WHITE CLASS.

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snooky
09-08-2017, 11:55 PM
9th of Dec 1972 -beat tic 2-1 to win the league cup, following game beat ayr Utd 8-1 ,then go to tiny wee castle and hump them 7-0 . That was the class of the TORNADOES. My favourites,my heroes, my era, EVERYBODY has theirs ,but that's the love of HIBS ,each generation of Hibbys following their particular heroes ,nae rights nae wrongs just GREEN AND WHITE CLASS.

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Lack of quality in the depth of the squad was definitely a big factor. Mickey had a temper and, because of that, was niggled nearly every game. Despite what a Hun ref once said, Edwards was given very little protection or slack by the men in aprons. As was said before, Onion's broken leg was a big setback at the time.

Hibbycol
10-08-2017, 12:02 AM
Lack of quality in the depth of the squad was definitely a big factor. Mickey had a temper and, because of that, was niggled nearly every game. Despite what one Hun ref said once, Edwards was given very little protection or slack by the men in aprons. As was said too, Onion's broken leg was a big setback at the time.Didn't we have first team ,second ,all the way down to fifth teams to pick and choose from ,conveyor belt,mind you the players where on about a hundred quid a week ,squad photos were like 3-4 rows deep,even going back to the 50's the squads where huge ,changed days lol

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Firestarter
10-08-2017, 12:09 AM
David Gray as right back and captain. Thee man.

Hibrandenburg
10-08-2017, 12:10 AM
Griffiths. The most naturally talented striker I've seen at ER. If he'd have had the same support that the Tornadoes had he'd have had a field day.

houstonhibbee
10-08-2017, 02:10 AM
Inspired by our new poster, Ingsh, I thought it might be interesting to consider who has played for Hibs since the 70's that might have got a game for Turnbull's Tornadoes.

I'll use the 1972/73 squad for reference and in case you've lost your memory, the team was;

Jim Herriot
John Brownlie
Erich Schaedler
Pat Stanton
Jim Black
John Blackley
Alex Edwards
Jimmy O’Rourke
Alan Gordon
Alex Cropley
Arthur Duncan

The rest of the squad was made up of;

Jim McArthur
Bobby Robertson

Derek Spalding

Des Bremner
John Hamilton
John Hazel Scotland
Tony Higgins
Billy McEwan
Bobby Smith

(If I've got that wrong, please let me know and I'll correct it).

So who would think would improve that team and who would you remove to accommodate them?

Same goes for the squad.


Herriot or Marciano?

Brownlie or Whittaker/ Gray?

Schaedler or Stevenson

Black or Hanlon/ McGregor

Blackley or Ambrose

Edwards or Swanson

Stanton or McGeough/ Slivka

Cropley or McGinn

Duncan or Boyle

O'Rourke or Stokes

Gordon or Murray

This team are not too shabby.........
Wednesdays performance reminded me of the league cup demolition of Livi under Mowbray. 7-0 i think it was.

High-On-Hibs
10-08-2017, 02:23 AM
Goram would be in there well before Marciano imo.

Griffiths would have to be in that squad, easily ahead of Riordan.

Then there's McGinn, or possibly Brown. Hard to say as McGinn is yet to reach his peek.

Tom Hart RIP
10-08-2017, 12:18 PM
Loved the story in Pats book about the ref telling him to have a word with Mickey Edwards or he would have to send him off. Pat asked what for and the ref replied 'singing'
The wee man kept singing Jingle Bells to Jim Jeffries whose face was purple with rage 😡

superfurryhibby
10-08-2017, 12:35 PM
Bobby Smith and European Cup winner Des Bremner on the bench doesn't suggest weakness to me. It's difficult to see almost anyone other than Best or Archibald getting a look in.

Bremner and Smith were mere striplings at the time. Bremner had only played Highland League football before he entered the scene and Smith was a young boy who took a few years to become a regular in the first team.

If we are going all out then John Collins, Andy Goram, Scott Brown and David Murphy would have added to that team. They might not have been guaranteed a place (Goram being the most likely), but they would have ensured that the Tornadoes won more than a League Cup. A young O'Connor and Mc Ginn would be my choices to add to the depth of squad too.

snooky
10-08-2017, 12:44 PM
Bremner and Smith were mere striplings at the time. Bremner had only played Highland League football before he entered the scene and Smith was a young boy who took a few years to become a regular in the first team.

If we are going all out then John Collins, Andy Goram, Scott Brown and David Murphy would have added to that team. They might not have been guaranteed a place (Goram being the most likely), but they would have ensured that the Tornadoes won more than a League Cup. A young O'Connor and Mc Ginn would be my choices to add to the depth of squad too.

Roughie or Leighton would have a good shout. Murph too however, Shades had the long throw and that bit of steel that every team needs.
Sparky certainly, Collins maybe.
It shows how good a team TT was when here we are with 45 years of players to choose from and we find it hard to replace most of them with better players.

Bostonhibby
10-08-2017, 01:03 PM
to be honest, If we had some of the players we have this present day.............and even if they were back-ups, the Tornadoes WOULD have won the league, which they should have done! the main problem that cursed us was Brownlie's injury and Edwards' ridiculous 8 week ban. there were a couple of other things but these were the things that denied us winning the league then. we had to deal with an excellent Celtic team, but also when we were 3 goals up (or maybe 2 at Celtic park,) the match was abandoned due to fog. 10 mins later when I got outside, the fog had gone !!! Hibernian played some scintillating fitba' during that period, and no one can deny it.Agree all of this.

Was 2-0 at darkheid when it was abandoned. I was there too. Went to the replay which finished 1-1 if memory serves me right.

Edwards ban was a straightforward attempt to nobble us and it worked

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Earlydelivery
10-08-2017, 01:08 PM
Have to say no present player would get near the tornados

KSA Hibee
10-08-2017, 01:09 PM
Crikey id have to say not one of our cup winning side or the side we have at present would have gotten anywhere near the Tornadoes first team.

If i had to pick anyone from previous teams that would have added anything to them it would have to be Sauzee!

IMO he is the only player good enough to have worn Pat Stanton's No4 jersey.

Many may say that Herriot and Black were the least talented of that side but they were stalwarts in their own rights.

In Schaedler and Brownlie we had the best two attacking backs in Scotland, complimented by Blackley's no nonsense tackling and reading of the game.

Our midfield then was so talented that even SJM would struggle to oust Edwards or Cropley and no one could compete with Stanton in any way possible!

In Gordon, Duncan & ORourke we had free scoring players who terrorised every defence in the league.

As another poster said it really is down to the generation you were brought up in and the team as it was then.

Turnbull's Tornadoes were the team that i grew up with and always be thee best!

100% agree .. I am who I am because of theses men !!!!!

21st May 2016 was the greatest day in my lifetime as a Hibee and this team started that journey for me.

Jesus someone near me must be chopping onions again 🙄

brog
10-08-2017, 01:11 PM
Agree all of this.

Was 2-0 at darkheid when it was abandoned. I was there too. Went to the replay which finished 1-1 if memory serves me right.

Edwards ban was a straightforward attempt to nobble us and it worked

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Yep & the 2-0 win would have put us top of the league. There were only a couple of minutes to go when the ref abandoned the game & the game had been delayed longer than that by Celtc fans invading the pitch. Yes, poor Celtc are continually hard done to by the establishment.

hhibs
10-08-2017, 01:15 PM
to be honest, If we had some of the players we have this present day.............and even if they were back-ups, the Tornadoes WOULD have won the league, which they should have done! the main problem that cursed us was Brownlie's injury and Edwards' ridiculous 8 week ban. there were a couple of other things but these were the things that denied us winning the league then. we had to deal with an excellent Celtic team, but also when we were 3 goals up (or maybe 2 at Celtic park,) the match was abandoned due to fog. 10 mins later when I got outside, the fog had gone !!! Hibernian played some scintillating fitba' during that period, and no one can deny it.


:top marks

oh,the memories!

Brightside
10-08-2017, 01:16 PM
Have to say no present player would get near the tornados

this is just silly. players now are much faster, much fitter. It makes no sense to hold them up against each other. Same with all sports. Evolution means you can't assess properly. Golfers are much better, swimmers, runners....everything has moved forward.

Bostonhibby
10-08-2017, 01:17 PM
Yep & the 2-0 win would have put us top of the league. There were only a couple of minutes to go when the ref abandoned the game & the game had been delayed longer than that by Celtc fans invading the pitch. Yes, poor Celtc are continually hard done to by the establishment.Indeed.

Mind you selling the wonderful Jimmy O'Rourke to St Johnstone never helped. Especially as he scored the winner for them at ER shortly after if my memory is still working?

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Ryan69
10-08-2017, 01:25 PM
As others have said Marciano would have a chance of ousting Heriott but Jim will be well into his 70's by now, presuming he is still alive.

I really like Paul Hanlon but football was a lot more rigorous then so only Darren might have had a shot at replacing Jim Black.

Having seen every Hibs team since then I can unequivocally say that no-one (and I mean absolutely no-one including Sauzee and Latapy) is worthy of consideration at replacing any of the others.

The only others I can think of over that entire period who are even worth debating would be David Murphy & Sparky but I would still keep Schaedler & O'Rourke.

Sauzee could never replace Pat Stanton and I would not swap Latapy for either Cropley or Edwards.

Im pretty sure even The George Best that played for Hibs...would of been good enough.
Pretty sure Sauzee also.
John Collins would probably be in with a shout also.

GreenLake
10-08-2017, 01:42 PM
Simon Murray could be one of the subs the way he is playing right now.

snooky
10-08-2017, 02:14 PM
this is just silly. players now are much faster, much fitter. It makes no sense to hold them up against each other. Same with all sports. Evolution means you can't assess properly. Golfers are much better, swimmers, runners....everything has moved forward.

I totally agree, Underscore.
Whether or not the Famous Five would be able to achieve the levels of fitness required in the game today cannot be determined. The pace of the game has been upped drastically since the old days. Look at the old footage and see for yourself. It was a totally different game back then. Nowadays the ball is lighter so it handles differently, the boots and strips are lighter, the rules have changed (esp in terms of tackling, charging the goalkeeper, etc). Also the tactics & formations have changed. (W/M to 4-2-4 to 4-3-3, and so on).
Therefore, as you say, it's impossible to make a like-for-like comparison however, if we judge each player or team against standards of their own times, that's as close as we'll ever get.

Iggy Pope
10-08-2017, 02:32 PM
RIGHT you ootside ,stripped to the waist ,square go . Nobody could lace MR STANTONS slippers never mind his boots .[emoji16]

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Careful. She'll take you.

Hibbycol
10-08-2017, 02:46 PM
Careful. She'll take you.That's the best offer I have had in a while [emoji102] .

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stu in nottingham
10-08-2017, 02:49 PM
It's not that difficult to make some comparisons in my view, all you have to do is take account of different training methods, fitness and diet etc. There are also two sides to that coin in fairness. How would modern day players cope with being ruthlessly hacked all over the pitch with very little protection and playing in mud baths with a heavier ball such as the likes of George Best and his generation did. It's all relative and innate talent will out. It's about the quality of the player not how much they can lift in a gym or how many miles they run during a game.

Some players that come to mind who would have challenged for a first team place in my opinion, heck knows where though. Certainly Goram as in my view he is the not only the best Hibs goalie but the best Scottish one too. You look at Jim Black who was a decent player but looked ordinary playing next to an absolute galaxy of talent – world class in some respects. He did a good steady job, apart from getting the run-around a time or two from Celtic’s Dixie Deans. Maybe you could shoehorn big Franck in that area somehow because his class would need to be accommodated.

Andy Goram
Franck Sauzee
David Murphy
Scott Brown
John Collins
Steve Archibald
John McGinn
George Best, as a wildcard

Collins, Brown and to some extent McGinn would have pushed for a midfield berth but really, how do you displace legends such as Stanton or Cropley? Johnny Collins would have come closest in my view as he was utter class.

I’ll go with that Gorham and Sauzee and that’s it. No disrespect to some great players left out.

therealgavmac
10-08-2017, 02:56 PM
Obviously, but that's the point of the question.

On your other point, Hibs were winning 2-0 when the fog came down at Parkhead. The replay ended 1-1.

That wasn't the Tornado's though was it? I remember Joe Harper flicking the V's at the Celtc fans as the ref abandoned the game.......

BSEJVT
10-08-2017, 03:12 PM
Im pretty sure even The George Best that played for Hibs...would of been good enough.
Pretty sure Sauzee also.
John Collins would probably be in with a shout also.

Not a chance

The original George Best may have :wink: but the Hibs version nowhere close, not within a million miles.

Sauzee v Stanton, Stanton every day of the week for me

You need to understand that football in general was far better in those days in so far as there wasn't the huge divide that now exists being SPL & EPL and even Celtic and the rest of the SPL

There were many many more teams and players of broadly equivalent standards and to shine amongst that lot took someone special.

Sauzee was very good but was a diamond in a ton of coal

Stanton was a great player in an era of great players and is often compared favourably to Bobby Moore

I would have Cropley before Collins every day of the week

Cropley was a far better tackler, was quicker and scored more goals

Injuries apart he would have easily gained as many caps as Collins in an era where Scotland had a far deeper talent pool to fish in

superfurryhibby
10-08-2017, 03:33 PM
Roughie or Leighton would have a good shout. Murph too however, Shades had the long throw and that bit of steel that every team needs.
Sparky certainly, Collins maybe.
It shows how good a team TT was when here we are with 45 years of players to choose from and we find it hard to replace most of them with better players.

True, either Leighton or Rough would have done the business. Rough was playing at the time, albeit very young. We could have had him for a snip too.

Collins, in my view, was well up to the job. A case could be made for him being the best Hibs reared player since the Tornadoes. He was top class, domestically and internationally. I'll grant you Griffiths. He has potential to play at a higher level than the SPL and I think he still has room for development.

It does show how good the Tornadoes were. I was only a boy and they are etched on my memory, forever. Bloody pity they were up against an excellent Celtic side and a powerful Hun.

stu in nottingham
10-08-2017, 03:39 PM
Not a chance

The original George Best may have :wink: but the Hibs version nowhere close, not within a million miles.

Sauzee v Stanton, Stanton every day of the week for me

You need to understand that football in general was far better in those days in so far as there wasn't the huge divide that now exists being SPL & EPL and even Celtic and the rest of the SPL

There were many many more teams and players of broadly equivalent standards and to shine amongst that lot took someone special.

Sauzee was very good but was a diamond in a ton of coal

Stanton was a great player in an era of great players and is often compared favourably to Bobby Moore

I would have Cropley before Collins every day of the week

Cropley was a far better tackler, was quicker and scored more goals

Injuries apart he would have easily gained as many caps as Collins in an era where Scotland had a far deeper talent pool to fish in

Largely agree with all of those points though perhaps a tad harsh on Sauzee who of course was a European Cup winner and for no small reason.

I was lucky enough to see both Pat Stanton and Bobby Moore at their best. I know which player I would pick, despite Moore being a very fine defender indeed.

I too, although thinking very highly of Collins as a player, would also pick Cropley over him every time for the same reasons. He was my favourite of all the Tornadoes. An amazing midfield talent who was very unfortunate with serious injuries.

tynehibs
10-08-2017, 03:39 PM
Tornadoes were my favorite team ever but Eddie was far to hasty breaking them up starting with harper. If that team could have been improved at the time I'd have gone for George Stewart and Harvey from Leeds as the replacements

BSEJVT
10-08-2017, 04:04 PM
Largely agree with all of those points though perhaps a tad harsh on Sauzee who of course was a European Cup winner and for no small reason.

I was lucky enough to see both Pat Stanton and Bobby Moore at their best. I know which player I would pick, despite Moore being a very fine defender indeed.

I too, although thinking very highly of Collins as a player, would also pick Cropley over him every time for the same reasons. He was my favourite of all the Tornadoes. An amazing midfield talent who was very unfortunate with serious injuries.

Thanks Stu

Sauzee and Collins were fine fine players as, are to a greater or lesser extent many others named on this thread as candidates, but to paraphrase the great Lawrie Reilly there's class and there's Tornadoes class

stantonsboots
10-08-2017, 04:08 PM
Ally Mcleod probably one of the most gifted and skilful players I've ever had the joy to watch play for us!

snooky
10-08-2017, 04:13 PM
Thanks Stu

Sauzee and Collins were fine fine players as, are to a greater or lesser extent many others named on this thread as candidates, but to paraphrase the great Lawrie Reilly there's class and there's Tornadoes class
Wis it no' Ned that said that? :dunno:

BSEJVT
10-08-2017, 04:18 PM
Wis it no' Ned that said that? :dunno:

Correct Lawrie said born a Hibby and die a Hibby

oops

snooky
10-08-2017, 04:25 PM
Tornadoes were my favorite team ever but Eddie was far to hasty breaking them up starting with harper. If that team could have been improved at the time I'd have gone for George Stewart and Harvey from Leeds as the replacements

Many other players that could have been bought (in hindsight) that would have strengthened the team/squad.
As a replacement for Mickey, young Strachan was playing for Dundee and was in our price range.
A solid & pacy Stewart Kennedy was playing for Falkirk at right back could have covered for Onion.
As mentioned before George Stewart (a Hibby playing for Dundee) could have easily replaced Cilla. A young Paul Hegarty was playing centre forward for Stranraer back then. He would have been a great acquisition. Tom Forsyth (believe it or not) was playing great in midfield for Motherwell. (As per the norm, the Rangers turned him into a hacker). Jocky Scott was also doing well with Dundee.
All quality players any of which would have added that little bit depth that we lacked at the time or would have been good replacements as TT broke up and/or aged.

Ray_
10-08-2017, 04:28 PM
Tornadoes were my favorite team ever but Eddie was far to hasty breaking them up starting with harper. If that team could have been improved at the time I'd have gone for George Stewart and Harvey from Leeds as the replacements

Harvey was the Leeds No1 when they played Hibs in 73/4, so little chance we would have got him, as they were romping to the title. Not many good Scottish keepers around back then, we would have been far better spending some of the Harper money on Thistle's Alan Rough.

snooky
10-08-2017, 04:35 PM
Loved the story in Pats book about the ref telling him to have a word with Mickey Edwards or he would have to send him off. Pat asked what for and the ref replied 'singing'
The wee man kept singing Jingle Bells to Jim Jeffries whose face was purple with rage ��

:yamlaugh:

"Oh what fun it is to ..." :singing:

tynehibs
10-08-2017, 04:37 PM
I think most players in the English / Scottish leagues were in our price range then when we forked out £120000 for harper, but Ned was an great admirer of harper. How much was lorimer of Leeds valued at then ?

Ray_
10-08-2017, 04:58 PM
Many other players that could have been bought (in hindsight) that would have strengthened the team/squad.
As a replacement for Mickey, young Strachan was playing for Dundee and was in our price range.
A solid & pacy Stewart Kennedy was playing for Falkirk at right back could have covered for Onion.
As mentioned before George Stewart (a Hibby playing for Dundee) could have easily replaced Cilla. A young Paul Hegarty was playing centre forward for Stranraer back then. He would have been a great acquisition. Tom Forsyth (believe it or not) was playing great in midfield for Motherwell. (As per the norm, the Rangers turned him into a hacker). Jocky Scott was also doing well with Dundee.
All quality players any of which would have added that little bit depth that we lacked at the time or would have been good replacements as TT broke up and/or aged.

Depends when we signed them. Gordon Strachan didn't sign for Dundee until 1974, too late for Mickey's suspension. Stewart Kennedy was a bit on the young side when Onion broke his leg, Tom Forsyth was a Rangers player when we won the league cup and Paul Hegarty, although a great signing, but it was 1976 before Jim Mclean used him as a centre back, he was regarded as a pretty poor forward before that.

Eddie Turbull had offered Alan Hanson a contract before he joined Thistle but at the time he wanted to concentrate on golf! An alternative would have been Gordon McQueen, he went to Leeds for 30K during ET's second season at ER. There was options at both Dundee teams, John Duncan at Dundee & Andy Gray at United, both later done very well at Spurs & Villa respectively, Gray winning both the English player of the year and young player of the year, in his first season down south. Drew Jarvie was regularly rumoured to be a Hibs target, before, years later, he joined Aberdeen. Instead of getting Jim Blair for 45K from ST Mirren in 1970, we could of got Joe Jordan from close rivals, Morton, for 30K. All if's and buts, but its good to wonder, what if :greengrin

heretoday
10-08-2017, 05:30 PM
Boyle could have played the Arthur Duncan role.

ancient hibee
10-08-2017, 05:32 PM
Don't kid yourself.

stu in nottingham
10-08-2017, 05:40 PM
Boyle could have played the Arthur Duncan role.

He's just got around 370 appearances to go.

heretoday
10-08-2017, 05:44 PM
It's the old story though isn't it? You have to be a bit pro rata about it. Players are so much faster and more physical now. Maybe not so clever though.

stu in nottingham
10-08-2017, 05:50 PM
It's the old story though isn't it? You have to be a bit pro rata about it. Players are so much faster and more physical now. Maybe not so clever though.

Do you think Boyle would have been faster than Arthur Duncan?

Maybe now, Arthur is 69. :wink:

Bostonhibby
10-08-2017, 05:51 PM
Do you think Boyle would have been faster than Arthur Duncan?

Maybe now, Arthur is 69. :wink:Arthur wasn't called nijinsky for nothing.[emoji6]

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

KSA Hibee
10-08-2017, 05:53 PM
Boyle could have played the Arthur Duncan role.

Rearrange the words .... lace couldn't he boots his

cabbageandribs1875
10-08-2017, 05:59 PM
Rearrange the words .... lace couldn't he boots his



this :agree:

1van Sprou7e
10-08-2017, 06:00 PM
It's the old story though isn't it? You have to be a bit pro rata about it. Players are so much faster and more physical now. Maybe not so clever though.

Why would players be any less clever? Nowadays they spend much more time on tactics and decision making, and coaching is of a much higher standard as well

superfurryhibby
10-08-2017, 06:09 PM
It's the old story though isn't it? You have to be a bit pro rata about it. Players are so much faster and more physical now. Maybe not so clever though.

Were they more physical?

They have better six packs and the overall fitness levels are no doubt higher, but the game as it was makes todays version look rather wimpish.

In the 70's you had to impose yourself physically to be allowed to play. Central defenders who play like Paul Hanlon weren't that common ( Martin Buchanesque). Instead you had guys like Tam Forsyth, Colin Jackson and Alan Anderson. They had a style of play best described as being "robust".

Despite all of that skill flourished. Much less sideways passing, a more direct approach was the order of the day. The idea of playing 5 at the back would have been derided, as would playing 1 up front ( in any combination).

Just a damned pity that there is so little footage available of those days. Seem to remember Hibs TV had the goals from the 5-3 Dryburgh cup victory.....can't find it anymore.

Ray_
10-08-2017, 06:23 PM
I think most players in the English / Scottish leagues were in our price range then when we forked out £120000 for harper, but Ned was an great admirer of harper. How much was lorimer of Leeds valued at then ?

Not really true, Harper went south to Everton for 180K, we would have never paid that. The English top division was the place where our top players went, not the reverse. The true extent of Harper's move came around nine month later, when Cropley was sold to recoup what Tom Hart had spent [Harper cost 132K. inclusive of tax].

cabbageandribs1875
10-08-2017, 06:23 PM
He's just got around 370 appearances to go.


and 95 goals :greengrin






* i think

SirDavidsNapper
10-08-2017, 06:24 PM
Which Tornado would get into the 2016 Cup winning team? 😉

heretoday
10-08-2017, 06:27 PM
Which Tornado would get into the 2016 Cup winning team? 😉

Pat Stanton.

stu in nottingham
10-08-2017, 06:30 PM
Which Tornado would get into the 2016 Cup winning team? 😉

None of them, they're all getting on a bit now.

snooky
10-08-2017, 07:02 PM
None of them, they're all getting on a bit now.

Dunno, Paddy would still stroll it.
Auld heid an' that.

:not worth

snooky
10-08-2017, 07:16 PM
Depends when we signed them. Gordon Strachan didn't sign for Dundee until 1974, too late for Mickey's suspension. Stewart Kennedy was a bit on the young side when Onion broke his leg, Tom Forsyth was a Rangers player when we won the league cup and Paul Hegarty, although a great signing, but it was 1976 before Jim Mclean used him as a centre back, he was regarded as a pretty poor forward before that.

Eddie Turbull had offered Alan Hanson a contract before he joined Thistle but at the time he wanted to concentrate on golf! An alternative would have been Gordon McQueen, he went to Leeds for 30K during ET's second season at ER. There was options at both Dundee teams, John Duncan at Dundee & Andy Gray at United, both later done very well at Spurs & Villa respectively, Gray winning both the English player of the year and young player of the year, in his first season down south. Drew Jarvie was regularly rumoured to be a Hibs target, before, years later, he joined Aberdeen. Instead of getting Jim Blair for 45K from ST Mirren in 1970, we could of got Joe Jordan from close rivals, Morton, for 30K. All if's and buts, but its good to wonder, what if :greengrin

I realise that my players timeline didn't always coincide with the Tornados in their heyday however, I tried to qualify that by saying 'replacements' when TT got older or sold.
Re. Strachan - he was the playmaker we could have had if we had wanted to continue with the Tornados formation after Edwards left. Stuart Kennedy was the only full back at that time who came close to Duncan's pace. I saw him keep Arthur subdued for a whole game and marked his card for the future. Hegarty would have been a good acquisition given that he COULD play CF and, as was proved later, was very good in defence.
Good to read about the other quality players you note were around at the time. As I said earlier, hindsight is 20/20 vision.

superfurryhibby
10-08-2017, 07:34 PM
Another consideration was that Turnbull's signings, prior to Harper, were done on a shoestring. Edwards and Gordon's fees were under £10.000 each. Players like Schaedler Black, Bremner and Duncan also cost money (I think Duncan was signed for around £30.000- a decent transfer sum) for the previous management, but aside from Duncan these were very small fees. Most of the greats had come through the ranks.

Says a lot about them that these guys are so well thought of 45 years later, a great time to be a boyhood Hibees fan and living in Leith. Going to have to view the goals from 0-7 again soon and I'm no even on the bevvy.

heretoday
10-08-2017, 08:05 PM
I completely forgot about Best and Archibald.

Yeah they would have got into Turnbull's Tornadoes. In fact loads of guys would have.

Mick O'Rourke
10-08-2017, 08:46 PM
Yeah they would have got into Turnbull's Tornadoes. In fact loads of guys would have.
Many players would, as you say, have got a game in Turnbull's teams
The name Turnbull's Tornadoes,for me,refers to eleven players,not the whole squad.
Other players who played for the club at the time?
Many good ones.
However....
They aint a Tornado !! :greengrin

superfurryhibby
10-08-2017, 08:57 PM
Yeah they would have got into Turnbull's Tornadoes. In fact loads of guys would have.

The Best we saw at Hibs, don't be daft.

Archibald would have added to the squad.

Your wrong though, very few of the many very good players we've seen since would make the 1st 11, aside from the general consensus that Black and Herriot were not quite up to the standard of the other

Who you would replace? Be intrigued to hear who these loads of guys are. I'm assuming you saw the Tornadoes play?

ancient hibee
10-08-2017, 09:03 PM
Why would players be any less clever? Nowadays they spend much more time on tactics and decision making, and coaching is of a much higher standard as well
If you can tell me the name of a coach in Scotland who is remotely at the level of Stein,Turnbull,Ferguson and McLean I will be very surprised.

brianmc
10-08-2017, 09:31 PM
Reading through this thread I'm glad i wasn't around to witness the Tornadoes (well, I was born in '72 so I suppose I technically could have seen them...).
I actually feel a bit sorry for the guys still claiming that no Hibs player in the last 40 odd years would've been good enough to get in that team.
Why have you even bothered watching Hibs since then? It must be 4 decades+ of torture?
Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but.. As much as I hate the current notion that football only really started when the EPL and Champions League did, by the same token I hate the idea "it was all better in the old days". Because I hate to tell some of you this but for most on this forum, and at Easter Road on match days 45 years ago IS the old days.

Maybe I was just 'lucky' that my period of becoming a regular attendee coincided with the Alex miller era. My sights were set pretty low from the off.
I sincerely hope 20 years from now I'm not trying to convince the younger generations of Hibees about the merits of David Fellenger and Brian Hamilton.

snooky
10-08-2017, 10:23 PM
Reading through this thread I'm glad i wasn't around to witness the Tornadoes (well, I was born in '72 so I suppose I technically could have seen them...).
I actually feel a bit sorry for the guys still claiming that no Hibs player in the last 40 odd years would've been good enough to get in that team.
Why have you even bothered watching Hibs since then? It must be 4 decades+ of torture?
Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but.. As much as I hate the current notion that football only really started when the EPL and Champions League did, by the same token I hate the idea "it was all better in the old days". Because I hate to tell some of you this but for most on this forum, and at Easter Road on match days 45 years ago IS the old days.

Maybe I was just 'lucky' that my period of becoming a regular attendee coincided with the Alex miller era. My sights were set pretty low from the off.
I sincerely hope 20 years from now I'm not trying to convince the younger generations of Hibees about the merits of David Fellenger and Brian Hamilton.

I take your point bmc but if you wurny there, you just wurny there. The Tornados were a joy to behold. We knew we were watching something special (0-7 for example). Okay we have had peaks an troughs since then however, TBH, for the first time in ages I feel we might be on the threshold of a new golden era. Fingers crossed.

houstonhibbee
11-08-2017, 02:37 AM
Another consideration was that Turnbull's signings, prior to Harper, were done on a shoestring. Edwards and Gordon's fees were under £10.000 each. Players like Schaedler Black, Bremner and Duncan also cost money (I think Duncan was signed for around £30.000- a decent transfer sum) for the previous management, but aside from Duncan these were very small fees. Most of the greats had come through the ranks.

Says a lot about them that these guys are so well thought of 45 years later, a great time to be a boyhood Hibees fan and living in Leith. Going to have to view the goals from 0-7 again soon and I'm no even on the bevvy.
We paid $35,000 for Arthur. He cost the most.

SirDavidsNapper
11-08-2017, 03:10 AM
Reading through this thread I'm glad i wasn't around to witness the Tornadoes (well, I was born in '72 so I suppose I technically could have seen them...).
I actually feel a bit sorry for the guys still claiming that no Hibs player in the last 40 odd years would've been good enough to get in that team.
Why have you even bothered watching Hibs since then? It must be 4 decades+ of torture?
Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but.. As much as I hate the current notion that football only really started when the EPL and Champions League did, by the same token I hate the idea "it was all better in the old days". Because I hate to tell some of you this but for most on this forum, and at Easter Road on match days 45 years ago IS the old days.

Maybe I was just 'lucky' that my period of becoming a regular attendee coincided with the Alex miller era. My sights were set pretty low from the off.
I sincerely hope 20 years from now I'm not trying to convince the younger generations of Hibees about the merits of David Fellenger and Brian Hamilton.

Get what you're saying. I find myself waxing lyrical about Mowbrays team now and again and they seem to get better as the years go on forgetting they were probably the most frustratingly inconsistent Hibs side I've seen. Will be the same for fans from the Tornadoes era and I guess it was the same with the Famous Five era. I just feel fortunate our club has had these great teams.

heretoday
11-08-2017, 06:32 AM
The Best we saw at Hibs, don't be daft.

Archibald would have added to the squad.

Your wrong though, very few of the many very good players we've seen since would make the 1st 11, aside from the general consensus that Black and Herriot were not quite up to the standard of the other

Who you would replace? Be intrigued to hear who these loads of guys are. I'm assuming you saw the Tornadoes play?

I saw Hibs first in 1963, mate, and followed them through the next three decades. For a start,the team we had under Jock Stein was equal to the Tornados in ability.

superfurryhibby
11-08-2017, 07:09 AM
Reading through this thread I'm glad i wasn't around to witness the Tornadoes (well, I was born in '72 so I suppose I technically could have seen them...).
I actually feel a bit sorry for the guys still claiming that no Hibs player in the last 40 odd years would've been good enough to get in that team.
Why have you even bothered watching Hibs since then? It must be 4 decades+ of torture?
Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but.. As much as I hate the current notion that football only really started when the EPL and Champions League did, by the same token I hate the idea "it was all better in the old days". Because I hate to tell some of you this but for most on this forum, and at Easter Road on match days 45 years ago IS the old days.

Maybe I was just 'lucky' that my period of becoming a regular attendee coincided with the Alex miller era. My sights were set pretty low from the off.
I sincerely hope 20 years from now I'm not trying to convince the younger generations of Hibees about the merits of David Fellenger and Brian Hamilton.

A bit of a strange answer, rather negative and bitter Brian.

The fact is that they were one of the best sides to have ever played at Hibs. We watch Hibs because we love football and Hibs are our team. Much Of our history has been mundane and midtable, that is why sides who played with style and class are remembered.

So far know has claimed that none of the Tornadoes was irreplacable and everyone who watched them has agreed that there was a lack of depth in the squad.

It is the old days, but your point about waxing lyrical about Fellenger and Hamilton etc is just daft. I sincerely hope you set your horizons abit higher than that when you tell your grandchildren about your good old days.

BSEJVT
11-08-2017, 07:13 AM
Reading through this thread I'm glad i wasn't around to witness the Tornadoes (well, I was born in '72 so I suppose I technically could have seen them...).
I actually feel a bit sorry for the guys still claiming that no Hibs player in the last 40 odd years would've been good enough to get in that team.
Why have you even bothered watching Hibs since then? It must be 4 decades+ of torture?
Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but.. As much as I hate the current notion that football only really started when the EPL and Champions League did, by the same token I hate the idea "it was all better in the old days". Because I hate to tell some of you this but for most on this forum, and at Easter Road on match days 45 years ago IS the old days.

Maybe I was just 'lucky' that my period of becoming a regular attendee coincided with the Alex miller era. My sights were set pretty low from the off.
I sincerely hope 20 years from now I'm not trying to convince the younger generations of Hibees about the merits of David Fellenger and Brian Hamilton.

I have some sympathy with your view having heard the same about the Famous Five

But there is really no need to feel sorry for those of us privileged to have watched the Tornadoes, most of us are more than happy to have had the chance.

As by your own admission, you didn't see them, you are in no position to decide whether those "claims" as you put it are valid or not

Regardless of this, it doesn't really matter as you and I could both argue with some validity whether Bartley or Fyvie should have been playing defensive midfield last year and there is no over arching arbitrator to decide who was wrong or right.

Football is a game of opinions and few opinions coincide.

In my nearly 50 years of watching Hibs, in my opinion we have had some great teams and some terrible ones.

I am sure you could say the same and we may not even agree over which were my great teams and your great teams and which were our terrible ones.

Whatever it is, the past is the past and we need to adapt to the reality of the day, so I wouldn't describe the last 40 years as torture by any manner of means.

I have had some great times watching Hibs in that period and some bad ones as well.

In my time watching Hibs, off the top of my head there are probably 5 teams that I would place above the others

The Tornadoes

Miller's League Cup team

McLeish's team

The 2007 League Cup Team

The 2016 Cup Team (rolling into the currents side)

The 2016 Cup team clearly have huge emotional significance to me and every other Hibs Supporter but I still couldn't place them above the Tornadoes.

Argylehibby
11-08-2017, 07:29 AM
Crikey id have to say not one of our cup winning side or the side we have at present would have gotten anywhere near the Tornadoes first team.

If i had to pick anyone from previous teams that would have added anything to them it would have to be Sauzee!

IMO he is the only player good enough to have worn Pat Stanton's No4 jersey.

Many may say that Herriot and Black were the least talented of that side but they were stalwarts in their own rights.

In Schaedler and Brownlie we had the best two attacking backs in Scotland, complimented by Blackley's no nonsense tackling and reading of the game.

Our midfield then was so talented that even SJM would struggle to oust Edwards or Cropley and no one could compete with Stanton in any way possible!

In Gordon, Duncan & ORourke we had free scoring players who terrorised every defence in the league.

As another poster said it really is down to the generation you were brought up in and the team as it was then.

Turnbull's Tornadoes were the team that i grew up with and always be thee best!

:agree: none of the cup winners or the current squad would be regulars in Turnbulls team but the likes of McGinn, McGregor and Stokes would be in the squad and good replacements for injury and suspension.

IWasThere2016
11-08-2017, 10:17 AM
What's wrong with discussing a best ever Hibs team? It's not about legends.

In my view, I'd be trying to fit Goram, Sauzee, Latapy and Riordan into that team, but it wouldn't be easy.

I did an EEN fans thing to name best Hibs XI - cannot find article to post - but defo added those above D. You couldn't just pick the Tornadoes...

Sure my team was

Goram

Brownlie
MacNamara
Sauzee
Murphy

Sproule
Stanton
Latapy
Best

O'Rourke
Riordan

Subs: Andersson, Jones, K Wright, Archibald, Cropley, Collins, Schaedler

IWasThere2016
11-08-2017, 10:19 AM
Reading through this thread I'm glad i wasn't around to witness the Tornadoes (well, I was born in '72 so I suppose I technically could have seen them...).
I actually feel a bit sorry for the guys still claiming that no Hibs player in the last 40 odd years would've been good enough to get in that team.
Why have you even bothered watching Hibs since then? It must be 4 decades+ of torture?
Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but.. As much as I hate the current notion that football only really started when the EPL and Champions League did, by the same token I hate the idea "it was all better in the old days". Because I hate to tell some of you this but for most on this forum, and at Easter Road on match days 45 years ago IS the old days.

Maybe I was just 'lucky' that my period of becoming a regular attendee coincided with the Alex miller era. My sights were set pretty low from the off.
I sincerely hope 20 years from now I'm not trying to convince the younger generations of Hibees about the merits of David Fellenger and Brian Hamilton.

Love and addiction.

ancient hibee
11-08-2017, 12:51 PM
I did an EEN fans thing to name best Hibs XI - cannot find article to post - but defo added those above D. You couldn't just pick the Tornadoes...

Sure my team was

Goram

Brownlie
MacNamara
Sauzee
Murphy

Sproule
Stanton
Latapy
Best

O'Rourke
Riordan

Subs: Andersson, Jones, K Wright, Archibald, Cropley, Collins, Schaedler


Whereas for an old codger like me only one of those players(Goram) would be certain to be in my all time team and Stanton would only be considered as a defender.

superfurryhibby
11-08-2017, 03:35 PM
My all time team, based only on those I've seen play and only based on their standards whilst at Hibs.

Goram

Brownlie
Murphy
Stanton
Blackley

Cropley
Collins
Brown
Duncan

O'Rourke
Gordon

Subs: Sauzee, Latapy, O'Connor, Wright, Schaedler, McGinlay, Edwards, Durie. Archibald, Riordan, McNamara, Weir, Rough.

Some 1st 11 and not a bad second either.