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1875STEVE
06-08-2017, 11:51 PM
According to former SPL Roger Mitchell.

Just last year

http://www.thetwopointone.com/where-scottish-football-went-wrong-and-where-it-can-go-right-again/

Thoughts?

CraigHibee
07-08-2017, 12:08 AM
According to former SPL Roger Mitchell.

Just last year

http://www.thetwopointone.com/where-scottish-football-went-wrong-and-where-it-can-go-right-again/

Thoughts?

interesting, never heard of this until now but he doesn't say anything more about it. Maybe the club were approached but what was being offered etc might not have been beneficial to the club

jgl07
07-08-2017, 12:08 AM
According to former SPL Roger Mitchell.

Just last year

http://www.thetwopointone.com/where-scottish-football-went-wrong-and-where-it-can-go-right-again/

Thoughts?

I wouldn't believe a word that Roger Mitchell said. If this is true how did all the press miss out the scoop?

The only serious attempt to take over Hibs in the last 25 years was from Brian Kennedy. He simply wanted Easter Road for his ambitions for a Rugby Union team based in Edinburgh.

High-On-Hibs
07-08-2017, 12:12 AM
It's a big no no to foreign investors from me. Ownership must be in the hands of someone who understands the game here. Not some richboy looking for a plaything that they can toss in the trash when they're fed up with it

1875STEVE
07-08-2017, 12:15 AM
A hibby asked him about it on twitter, says he thinks Petrie asked too much.....

https://twitter.com/RPMComo/status/894140401317273600

NORTHERNHIBBY
07-08-2017, 12:20 AM
If Roger Mitchell told me that his name was Roger Mitchell and then got his birth certificate and his passport and driving licence out, I still would not believe him.

Auckland Hibs
07-08-2017, 12:36 AM
Reading this with a pinch of salt - surely someone would have picked up on this if it got to The Tash (and we wanted too much).

Edinburgh, in addition, is a world class city that is attractive for a host of reasons. Hibernian with that leverage has immense potential, something I saw first hand last year, as an Israeli investor asked me to assist his attempt to buy the club. He knew nought of the Famous Five, but he could see the sunshine over Leith. Hibs, freed of restrictions, would be like a Fiorentina. Neil Lennon is also a huge addition to the Scottish Premiership narrative this year.

Ozyhibby
07-08-2017, 12:40 AM
I don't know much about Mitchell because I was away while he was in charge but there is not a lot wrong with that article. We don't put enough emphasise on winning and the SFA needs broken up.


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AgentDaleCooper
07-08-2017, 01:17 AM
even if this is true, it would be a naw thanks from me. we are building something special here, and we're doing it the right way, IMO the REAL way, through fan power and real quality on the park. we're in an upward spiral at the moment, and we have the people in place to make that continue. i'd take petrie and STF over an abramovic any day of the week. that way, every single thing we achieve is purely on merit. it's a great time to be a hibee.

:flag: :flag: :flag: :flag: :flag:

CropleyWasGod
07-08-2017, 06:24 AM
A hibby asked him about it on twitter, says he thinks Petrie asked too much.....

https://twitter.com/RPMComo/status/894140401317273600It wouldn't have been Rod's call, so that undermines him a bit.

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blackpoolhibs
07-08-2017, 06:34 AM
even if this is true, it would be a naw thanks from me. we are building something special here, and we're doing it the right way, IMO the REAL way, through fan power and real quality on the park. we're in an upward spiral at the moment, and we have the people in place to make that continue. i'd take petrie and STF over an abramovic any day of the week. that way, every single thing we achieve is purely on merit. it's a great time to be a hibee.

:flag: :flag: :flag: :flag: :flag:

Really?

If Roman Abramovich wanted to buy Hibs, and we won the league and competed at the top end of the Champions League, i think you'd pretty quickly be swayed the other way.

Of course we could get a Romanov, and thats what everyone is frightened of, but i would never be frightened of an Abramovich.

Scouse Hibee
07-08-2017, 06:39 AM
According to former SPL Roger Mitchell.

Just last year

http://www.thetwopointone.com/where-scottish-football-went-wrong-and-where-it-can-go-right-again/

Thoughts?

We would have had to suffer Mick Napier and his cronies demonstrating outside the West Stand

flash
07-08-2017, 06:48 AM
Really?

If Roman Abramovich wanted to buy Hibs, and we won the league and competed at the top end of the Champions League, i think you'd pretty quickly be swayed the other way.

Of course we could get a Romanov, and thats what everyone is frightened of, but i would never be frightened of an Abramovich.

I would. People who fall out with him have been known to meet unexplained ends.

Ozyhibby
07-08-2017, 07:09 AM
Really?

If Roman Abramovich wanted to buy Hibs, and we won the league and competed at the top end of the Champions League, i think you'd pretty quickly be swayed the other way.

Of course we could get a Romanov, and thats what everyone is frightened of, but i would never be frightened of an Abramovich.

I wouldn't want Abramovich near Hibs. I hate that side of football.


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calumhibee1
07-08-2017, 07:19 AM
Really?

If Roman Abramovich wanted to buy Hibs, and we won the league and competed at the top end of the Champions League, i think you'd pretty quickly be swayed the other way.

Of course we could get a Romanov, and thats what everyone is frightened of, but i would never be frightened of an Abramovich.

It would be fun for a few seasons, but then we'd be like Celtic where there would be no sense of achievement in winning anything domestically. Even less so in fact seeing as we'd be buying it with someone else's money rather than money generated by our club.

It's a no thanks for me.

SirDavidsNapper
07-08-2017, 07:20 AM
I'd hate to have the soul ripped out my club like a Chelsea or Man City. Wouldn't mind a wealthy benefactor ploughing 10 million our way though.

green day
07-08-2017, 07:21 AM
According to former SPL Roger Mitchell.

Just last year

http://www.thetwopointone.com/where-scottish-football-went-wrong-and-where-it-can-go-right-again/

Thoughts?

The article reads like it was written by a 12 year old. Poorly structured, I couldn't work out half the points he was trying to make - except "what we tried was really in the best interests of football, so there".

As to the Hibs thing? If this is how he writes articles and he was asked to front it, I'm not surprised any bid was knocked back as lacking in substance.

ian cruise
07-08-2017, 07:26 AM
Really?

If Roman Abramovich wanted to buy Hibs, and we won the league and competed at the top end of the Champions League, i think you'd pretty quickly be swayed the other way.

Of course we could get a Romanov, and thats what everyone is frightened of, but i would never be frightened of an Abramovich.

Honestly I've no interest in an Abramovich. Winning the Scottish Cup if someone had just ploughed 10 million in to the club wouldn't have felt as good as it did in 2016 and while I'd obviously celebrate a league title I'd definitely have some of the shine taken off it knowing we just spent more than other people to get it. Might as well just have an auction for 1st place at start of the season to see who gets top spot and forget about the football.

At some point these uber wealthy owners are going to stop throwing money at clubs, what happens to them then? At the minute it looks like we have a secure foundation to allow generations to come to enjoy Hibs.

Michael
07-08-2017, 07:28 AM
I'm glad it didn't go through. I really like the fan ownership model we're moving towards. I would love to see a rule like in Germany that means fans must have a majority share in the club.

jdships
07-08-2017, 07:29 AM
There was a story coming out of a Merchant Bank in Queen Street last year for about 3 to 4 nweks and then died
No details were mentioed .
:confused:

Kaiser1962
07-08-2017, 07:56 AM
I wouldn't believe a word that Roger Mitchell said. If this is true how did all the press miss out the scoop?

The only serious attempt to take over Hibs in the last 25 years was from Brian Kennedy. He simply wanted Easter Road for his ambitions for a Rugby Union team based in Edinburgh.

i think history has shown that STF called that one right. The thing about the Israeli bid is that Mitchell gives little detail other than he was asked to act as a conduit. I am sure the bidder would have been able to make contact with STF.

Does Mitchel say when this was supposed to have happened? I ask because we are a very different proposition now than fifteen years ago, for example.

lucky
07-08-2017, 08:13 AM
I'd hate to have the soul ripped out my club like a Chelsea or Man City. Wouldn't mind a wealthy benefactor ploughing 10 million our way though.

What's the difference? Surely Hibs exist to win football games. So if an investor was will to spend millions on our club why would you be against it? Not sure how a big investor and winning rips the soul out of Hibs

Geo_1875
07-08-2017, 08:23 AM
i think history has shown that STF called that one right. The thing about the Israeli bid is that Mitchell gives little detail other than he was asked to act as a conduit. I am sure the bidder would have been able to make contact with STF.

Does Mitchel say when this was supposed to have happened? I ask because we are a very different proposition now than fifteen years ago, for example.

Is that like a tube? He'd be ideal for that role.

The_Todd
07-08-2017, 08:25 AM
I have to applaud all you purists saying you'd be in a huff if we won the league after a huge cash injection but I'm going to call bull. The only things you'd be moaning about would be the hangover the day after.

But this is all pointless. Scottish football is not attractive to big money investors, unless someone saw it as a cheap entry point into the Champions League given it would cost a relative pittance to win the SPL.

ano hibby
07-08-2017, 08:27 AM
There was a story coming out of a Merchant Bank in Queen Street last year for about 3 to 4 nweks and then died
No details were mentioed .
:confused:

Noble Grossart?

Keith_M
07-08-2017, 08:28 AM
There is no 'investment potential' in buying a Scottish Club (with the posible exception of Celtc), unless that investment is purely emotional.

If I were a mega-rich entrepreneur and wanted to buy a club, it would be in England.

CropleyWasGod
07-08-2017, 08:33 AM
There is no 'investment potential' in buying a Scottish Club (with the posible exception of Celtc), unless that investment is purely emotional.

If I were a mega-rich entrepreneur and wanted to buy a club, it would be in England.

Hmm, Vlad almost disproved that.

His model was to use HMFC as a vehicle for marketing his bank throughout the UK and EU. With a few different results that first season, and qualification for the CL groups, he would have achieved that.

Bostonhibby
07-08-2017, 08:39 AM
Hmm, Vlad almost disproved that.

His model was to use HMFC as a vehicle for marketing his bank throughout the UK and EU. With a few different results that first season, and qualification for the CL groups, he would have achieved that.Money laundering and massaging an ego the size of a small country played a bigger part surely?[emoji6]

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The_Todd
07-08-2017, 08:41 AM
Hmm, Vlad almost disproved that.

His model was to use HMFC as a vehicle for marketing his bank throughout the UK and EU. With a few different results that first season, and qualification for the CL groups, he would have achieved that.

Vlad may well have succeeded with that if he wasn't such an egotistical maniac. When it looked like Hearts were going to do something special he sabotaged it himself. Vlad was the reason they finished second instead of bottom six. Vlad was also the reason they finished second instead of first.

Keith_M
07-08-2017, 08:44 AM
Hmm, Vlad almost disproved that.

His model was to use HMFC as a vehicle for marketing his bank throughout the UK and EU. With a few different results that first season, and qualification for the CL groups, he would have achieved that.



Almost, as in 'didn't'. His Bank was a flop and they didn't qualify for the CL.


The only thing he possibly did successfully achieve was money laundering (though we might never find out about that one for sure)

Hibbyradge
07-08-2017, 08:44 AM
A hibby asked him about it on twitter, says he thinks Petrie asked too much.....

https://twitter.com/RPMComo/status/894140401317273600

Someone with no real knowledge of what happened posts a tweet and another hibs.net FACT is born. :hilarious

Bostonhibby
07-08-2017, 08:50 AM
Someone with no real knowledge of what happened posts a tweet and another hibs.net FACT is born. :hilarious

:agree:

Timing is everything, Hibs are travelling okay just now so lets throw something in the mix, really only having a wee dig at Rod but every little helps............................................. ..

Fact is that it's STF any deal would have to be done with and nothing at all leaked about an approach. Highly unusual.

Hibbyradge
07-08-2017, 08:56 AM
Hmm, Vlad almost disproved that.

His model was to use HMFC as a vehicle for marketing his bank throughout the UK and EU. With a few different results that first season, and qualification for the CL groups, he would have achieved that.

Was it?

I thought it was about milking the fans, laundering money and stealing everything that wasn't nailed down.

jacomo
07-08-2017, 09:05 AM
There is no 'investment potential' in buying a Scottish Club (with the posible exception of Celtc), unless that investment is purely emotional.

If I were a mega-rich entrepreneur and wanted to buy a club, it would be in England.


English clubs are mostly bought as trophy assets.

The list of people who have made serious money is very short.

bingo70
07-08-2017, 09:10 AM
Foreign real estate developer with no effection for the club wanted to buy hibs, who happen to have a stadium in an area that'd be prime land for a real estate developer. I'd have my concerns as to what this boys motives were.

Fwiw I've always felt the relative success Hearts had under Romanov was tainted by the fact they couldn't afford it so we're effectively cheating, if we were to get some bonkers investment there's no doubt I'd enjoy it but it'd always be in the back of my mind we couldn't afford it.

IMO the equivalent would be taking out a credit card for a few thousand with no intention of paying it back, to an extent I'd enjoy spending it but somewhere in my head it'd be worrying me and I think I'd rather enjoy spending a lesser amount that I'd actually earned, even if I wouldn't get as much for the money.

CropleyWasGod
07-08-2017, 09:12 AM
Foreign real estate developer with no effection for the club wanted to buy hibs, who happen to have a stadium in an area that'd be prime land for a real estate developer. I'd have my concerns as to what this boys motives were.

Fwiw I've always felt the relative success Hearts had under Romanov was tainted by the fact they couldn't afford it so we're effectively cheating, if we were to get some bonkers investment there's no doubt I'd enjoy it but it'd always be in the back of my mind we couldn't afford it.

IMO the equivalent would be taking out a credit card for a few thousand with no intention of paying it back, to an extent I'd enjoy spending it but somewhere in my head it'd be worrying me and I think I'd rather enjoy spending a lesser amount that I'd actually earned, even if I wouldn't get as much for the money.

... which is why STF retains ownership of the ticket office. :agree:

Ozyhibby
07-08-2017, 09:14 AM
... which is why STF retains ownership of the ticket office. :agree:

Fans own more than 26% now anyway, so could stop any ground sale.


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H18 SFR
07-08-2017, 09:15 AM
Am I being cynical thinking this is a west coast attempt to derail our season already?

CropleyWasGod
07-08-2017, 09:17 AM
Fans own more than 26% now anyway, so could stop any ground sale.


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Not sure that's the case.

We can stop the shares being sold to an asset stripper, but not the stadium. STF still has control of situations like that.

Gregor
07-08-2017, 09:19 AM
If there's even remotely the tiniest truth to the myriad of clickbait in this article, that Petrie bounced the "investor" then I would say Sir Rod made the right call.

I'm calling bull****. And it's no better than any of the rest of the self-absorbed crap that comes out the "I'm very smart" blogging network.

Johnny Clash
07-08-2017, 09:22 AM
i agree with the posters who are against massive buy outs by non football people who just see clubs as business opportunities. However, there's other ways investments can happen. The prospect of a bunch of minted hibs fans getting together and putting money into Hibs is obviously something that presumably everyone would welcome. We'd still preserve the soul of our club. Lottery winners, high profile celebrities etc who care about Hibs could invest or provide Hibs with interest free loans... put something back into the community.

Bostonhibby
07-08-2017, 09:24 AM
Am I being cynical thinking this is a west coast attempt to derail our season already?

:agree:

Seemingly things are not going very well in planet yam at the moment:wink: Well its all brilliant if you read the Sunday Mail, but that's another planet again.

hughio
07-08-2017, 09:33 AM
If there's even remotely the tiniest truth to the myriad of clickbait in this article, that Petrie bounced the "investor" then I would say Sir Rod made the right call.

I'm calling bull****. And it's no better than any of the rest of the self-absorbed crap that comes out the "I'm very smart" blogging network.

:agree:

Hibbyradge
07-08-2017, 09:44 AM
Am I being cynical thinking this is a west coast attempt to derail our season already?

You're being paranoid. :paranoid:

Ozyhibby
07-08-2017, 09:46 AM
You're being paranoid. :paranoid:

That's what people used to say about Celtic fans but it turns out Rangers and The SFA were a bunch of cheating B******* after all. [emoji23]


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Wilson
07-08-2017, 09:49 AM
I have to applaud all you purists saying you'd be in a huff if we won the league after a huge cash injection but I'm going to call bull. The only things you'd be moaning about would be the hangover the day after.

But this is all pointless. Scottish football is not attractive to big money investors, unless someone saw it as a cheap entry point into the Champions League given it would cost a relative pittance to win the SPL.


Previously, with Kennedy, we saw plenty willing to grab the money without asking who or why. I'm not sure long term success for hibs was that high on his agenda.

There are examples throughout the league's where clubs have owners with money but success hasn't followed. Only disharmony.

There are no guarantees.

I like the fan ownership model. I believe living within our means and financial fair play is the way forward in football. My best time supporting hibs is when we had an abundance of talented young players coming through - I'd like us to do this more successfully. Becoming a rich man's hobby goes against all of this.

If billionaires suddenly moved in on hearts, Aberdeen, and the likes then we may have to bite the bullet to compete.

In the current climate though we should happily keep the course we've plotted.

NYHibby
07-08-2017, 09:50 AM
Not sure that's the case.

We can stop the shares being sold to an asset stripper, but not the stadium. STF still has control of situations like that.

Is this because of something particular in the company's articles or whatever agreement there is with Hibernian Supporters Limited?

Because off the top of my head, I can't think how minority owners ("fans") could block who HFC Holdings is sold to. The fan directors couldn't block it.

Andy74
07-08-2017, 09:51 AM
i agree with the posters who are against massive buy outs by non football people who just see clubs as business opportunities. However, there's other ways investments can happen. The prospect of a bunch of minted hibs fans getting together and putting money into Hibs is obviously something that presumably everyone would welcome. We'd still preserve the soul of our club. Lottery winners, high profile celebrities etc who care about Hibs could invest or provide Hibs with interest free loans... put something back into the community.

Even then 'investment' has to be sustainable.

For clubs like hibs it is a concept that is best put to the side and instead we should be discussing, as Hibs are doing, how we sustainably increase our income.

The reality of investment, from outside sources is that they want to make some money back.

If we are talking about gifts from minted fans then that's lovely but again it would be a drop in the ocean against what aims people might think we would have to go along with it.

To battle it out with Celtic for example we would need over £20 million a year, every year, minimum.

Hibbyradge
07-08-2017, 09:56 AM
The narrative is always anti Rod Petrie. It's as tiring as it's unfair.

Instead of writng "Rod asked too much" which conveniently plays to the Petrie is tight dialogue, why didn't he say "the investor didn't offer enough"? It's the same thing, isn't it?

Anyone could pick the phone up and offer to buy Hibs for peanuts and then complain that Rod asked for too much. It's nonsense. Mitchell is supposed to be on the side of Scottish clubs, but he's sticking the boot in with that tweet and he clearly doesn't know the facts.

In any case, as has been pointed out, Hibs aren't Rod Petrie's to sell. Tom Farmer would have something to say about any business like that.

CropleyWasGod
07-08-2017, 09:59 AM
Is this because of something particular in the company's articles or whatever agreement there is with Hibernian Supporters Limited?

Because off the top of my head, I can't think how minority owners ("fans") could block who HFC Holdings is sold to. The fan directors couldn't block it.

It's not about HFC Holdings. It's about the sale of the shares in Hibernian Football Club Limited

IIRC, the sale of the "club" (there's that word again. Cue a 20-pager :greengrin) would require a Special Resolution. A SR would require a 75% majority.

The sale of the stadium, however, wouldn't.

NYHibby
07-08-2017, 09:59 AM
Speaking of rumours about foreign investors, there are a couple of people who think that a group of Americans tried to buy us in 2013.

At the AGM back then, a couple groups of people asked me why I was there as I stood out a little (nicely suited, young enough to be the son/grandson of a lot of the attendees, spoke with an American accent, etc). To screw with them, I told them that a group of Americans was in the process of buying the club, that I was there to observe the meeting, and that they needed to keep this a secret,

Johnny Clash
07-08-2017, 10:03 AM
Speaking of rumours about foreign investors, there are a couple of people who think that a group of Americans tried to buy us in 2013.

At the AGM back then, a couple groups of people asked me why I was there as I stood out a little (nicely suited, young enough to be the son/grandson of a lot of the attendees, spoke with an American accent, etc). To screw with them, I told them that a group of Americans was in the process of buying the club, that I was there to observe the meeting, and that they needed to keep this a secret,

Ha ha - very good

NYHibby
07-08-2017, 10:05 AM
It's not about HFC Holdings. It's about the sale of the shares in Hibernian Football Club Limited

IIRC, the sale of the "club" (there's that word again. Cue a 20-pager :greengrin) would require a special resolution. A SR would require a 75% majority.

The sale of the stadium, however, wouldn't.

My point was that we couldn't stop the sale of Holding's 65% and the control that goes with it.

As you said, with 65% the stadium could be sold. No need for any special resolutions (unless the company's articles have something in them)

Johnny Clash
07-08-2017, 10:13 AM
Even then 'investment' has to be sustainable.

For clubs like hibs it is a concept that is best put to the side and instead we should be discussing, as Hibs are doing, how we sustainably increase our income.

The reality of investment, from outside sources is that they want to make some money back.

If we are talking about gifts from minted fans then that's lovely but again it would be a drop in the ocean against what aims people might think we would have to go along with it.

To battle it out with Celtic for example we would need over £20 million a year, every year, minimum.

That's very true ... I was more thinking that if we could save the interest we currently pay on existing loans then that could pay the wages of a couple of good players. It was just just wishful thinking to make the point that you don't have to be a purist to be against the wholesale take over of your club. We're not against investment but not at any cost. The Cardiff city scenario for example where they had to change their home strip from blue to red to get the dosh!

I agree it's much better if we can sustain 15,000 ST year after year - and we can realistically do that if we win cups and compete in the league and then in Europe. We have to have these ambitions because the prospect of fighting just to make the top six isn't too appealing!

SonOfDavidFrancey
07-08-2017, 10:21 AM
Mitchell's disdain for those who support a local team rather than watching Messi on TV tells you everything. It's a question of values and his perspective doesn't grasp the communal, local or socially cohesive power of football, .

NAE NOOKIE
07-08-2017, 11:24 AM
If this was ever a serious bid for Hibs I would be amazed that the media didn't pick up on it at the time .. this sounds like one phone call that began and ended with RP / STF falling about laughing at a ridiculous valuation of the club.

Mitchell's diatribe is quite hard to follow because of his university dissertation style of writing, I ended up skimming over a lot of it because I was getting bored, but a couple of things did hold my interest long enough to comment.

He did have a point about our failure to improve Hampden and by association the other grounds in Scotland .. fans will be more willing to come if the facilities are better, he didn't say where the money was supposed to come from though, which is perhaps why he didn't last long in football administration.

Where I absolutely and fundamentally disagreed with him was on the mentality of Scottish football fans in reaction to the dominance of the old firm and latterly just Celtic, allied to our dismal International and European club football results. His assertion that fans are accepting of failure on these fronts is wrong .... yes we have come to expect poor results in these areas, but I would not say we tolerate them, the discussion around what we can do about it is never ending, we know its unacceptable and has to change ..... the failure of guys like Mitchell to come up with workable solutions is the problem, not the fans.

But worse is his dismissive attitude to how fans of clubs outside of the Old Firm have changed their culture and outlook on what can be considered a successful season, or even what it actually means to be a fan, in light of Celtic's financial dominance. The culture has become, or at least is becoming, that there is quite a bit of merit in simply supporting your club for the sake of it, that the road to happiness as a fan is seeing your club well supported and thriving to the best of its ability.

From my point of view its as important to me that other fans praise Hibs for the style of our play, the dedication of our supporters and the atmosphere we bring to games as it is how successful we are on the pitch and I think in the face of supporting a nut rather than the Glasgow sledgehammer that cracks it every season there is a lot of merit in that ....... Mitchell scoffs at that and suggests that it is an acceptance of failure ..... but what then is the alternative?

If we simply act like fans of the club he supports Scottish football will die on its arse within a few years. Its clear that his culture if failure to win leagues and trophies should be punished by non attendance ( which is what he is saying so far as I can see ) should be the attitude of fans of all clubs ...... If we go down that route 90% of Scotland's clubs would go bust ...... How can he possible understand the mentality required to be a faithful supporter of a non OF club when as a Celtic supporter he has never woken up on the first day of a season knowing his club has absolutely no chance of winning the league ... for him and folk like him winning just the League Cup in a season is cause for sacking the manager ... for us and clubs like us that manager becomes a hero.

As I said ...... He and his fellow Old Firm supporting pals would scoff at that because they have no concept of what its like to support a club that cant just go out and spend £500,000 to solve its goalkeeping problem or £2,000,000 to resolve a striking problem. We don't support a club that can sign the brightest and the best from other clubs in our league and stick them in the reserves or on the bench till they rot.
In that environment we either change the culture of what it means to be a fan and what makes you proud of your club or we just give up ..... that does not mean we accept our clubs failing to punch their weight and when it comes to a club like Hibs that we don't expect it to win a trophy every few seasons given its size in the Scottish game.

But if Mitchell thinks that all being a football fan is about is supporting clubs that consistently win things and anything else is just a comfort blanket then thank **** he isn't involved in running the game any more ..... I hope the folk running our game now don't have such a lack of understanding of what it really means, and in my opinion should mean, to be a football fan, unfortunately I'm inclined to doubt it.

Rant over.

AndyM_1875
07-08-2017, 12:01 PM
If this was ever a serious bid for Hibs I would be amazed that the media didn't pick up on it at the time .. this sounds like one phone call that began and ended with RP / STF falling about laughing at a ridiculous valuation of the club.

Mitchell's diatribe is quite hard to follow because of his university dissertation style of writing, I ended up skimming over a lot of it because I was getting bored, but a couple of things did hold my interest long enough to comment.

He did have a point about our failure to improve Hampden and by association the other grounds in Scotland .. fans will be more willing to come if the facilities are better, he didn't say where the money was supposed to come from though, which is perhaps why he didn't last long in football administration.

Where I absolutely and fundamentally disagreed with him was on the mentality of Scottish football fans in reaction to the dominance of the old firm and latterly just Celtic, allied to our dismal International and European club football results. His assertion that fans are accepting of failure on these fronts is wrong .... yes we have come to expect poor results in these areas, but I would not say we tolerate them, the discussion around what we can do about it is never ending, we know its unacceptable and has to change ..... the failure of guys like Mitchell to come up with workable solutions is the problem, not the fans.

But worse is his dismissive attitude to how fans of clubs outside of the Old Firm have changed their culture and outlook on what can be considered a successful season, or even what it actually means to be a fan, in light of Celtic's financial dominance. The culture has become, or at least is becoming, that there is quite a bit of merit in simply supporting your club for the sake of it, that the road to happiness as a fan is seeing your club well supported and thriving to the best of its ability.

From my point of view its as important to me that other fans praise Hibs for the style of our play, the dedication of our supporters and the atmosphere we bring to games as it is how successful we are on the pitch and I think in the face of supporting a nut rather than the Glasgow sledgehammer that cracks it every season there is a lot of merit in that ....... Mitchell scoffs at that and suggests that it is an acceptance of failure ..... but what then is the alternative?

If we simply act like fans of the club he supports Scottish football will die on its arse within a few years. Its clear that his culture if failure to win leagues and trophies should be punished by non attendance ( which is what he is saying so far as I can see ) should be the attitude of fans of all clubs ...... If we go down that route 90% of Scotland's clubs would go bust ...... How can he possible understand the mentality required to be a faithful supporter of a non OF club when as a Celtic supporter he has never woken up on the first day of a season knowing his club has absolutely no chance of winning the league ... for him and folk like him winning just the League Cup in a season is cause for sacking the manager ... for us and clubs like us that manager becomes a hero.

As I said ...... He and his fellow Old Firm supporting pals would scoff at that because they have no concept of what its like to support a club that cant just go out and spend £500,000 to solve its goalkeeping problem or £2,000,000 to resolve a striking problem. We don't support a club that can sign the brightest and the best from other clubs in our league and stick them in the reserves or on the bench till they rot.
In that environment we either change the culture of what it means to be a fan and what makes you proud of your club or we just give up ..... that does not mean we accept our clubs failing to punch their weight and when it comes to a club like Hibs that we don't expect it to win a trophy every few seasons given its size in the Scottish game.

But if Mitchell thinks that all being a football fan is about is supporting clubs that consistently win things and anything else is just a comfort blanket then thank **** he isn't involved in running the game any more ..... I hope the folk running our game now don't have such a lack of understanding of what it really means, and in my opinion should mean, to be a football fan, unfortunately I'm inclined to doubt it.

Rant over.

THIS.:agree:

CropleyWasGod
07-08-2017, 12:13 PM
My point was that we couldn't stop the sale of Holding's 65% and the control that goes with it.

As you said, with 65% the stadium could be sold. No need for any special resolutions (unless the company's articles have something in them)

There's a lot of stuff about transfers of shares which is beyond my pay-grade, and I don't pretend to understand it. It seems to be about restrictions on sales, approval of the Board etc.

There is, though, another clause which says that all business in general meetings (except for the normal business of AGM's) has to be treated as Special, ie requiring 75%. If the two sections are linked, then that suggests that transfers of substantial shareholdings have to be approved by SR as well.

Future17
07-08-2017, 12:20 PM
Reading this with a pinch of salt - surely someone would have picked up on this if it got to The Tash (and we wanted too much).

Edinburgh, in addition, is a world class city that is attractive for a host of reasons. Hibernian with that leverage has immense potential, something I saw first hand last year, as an Israeli investor asked me to assist his attempt to buy the club. He knew nought of the Famous Five, but he could see the sunshine over Leith. Hibs, freed of restrictions, would be like a Fiorentina. Neil Lennon is also a huge addition to the Scottish Premiership narrative this year.


What does that even mean? Is it something to aspire to?


Is that like a tube? He'd be ideal for that role.

I think it's an abbreviation of "conned you into it".

IngolstadtHarry
07-08-2017, 03:09 PM
We would have had to suffer Mick Napier and his cronies demonstrating outside the West Stand

Yeah, people with a conscience and principles demonstrating outside the stand - now wouldn't that be just awful.
But at least the sight of our club moving up the league would help take the sting out of the fact that the extra dosh came from someone in the business of supporting the occupation, exploitation and murder of innocents a few thousand miles away.

connerg
07-08-2017, 03:57 PM
He's rubbish at Geography too. He thinks Belgium and Scotland are the same size!

Belgium has twice the population of Scotland. I call that double, not the same or even similar. :smug:

Colr
07-08-2017, 04:02 PM
interesting, never heard of this until now but he doesn't say anything more about it. Maybe the club were approached but what was being offered etc might not have been beneficial to the club

Dundee Utd would have a problem with that!!!

Colr
07-08-2017, 04:14 PM
Liked the quote about Hibs being like Fiorentina.

Maybe Fiorentina want to be like Hibs judging from their new away kits

http://www.fiorentinastore.com/en/fiorentina-green-away-jersey-2017-18.html

(They have FIVE strips this season!)

Colr
07-08-2017, 04:14 PM
He's rubbish at Geography too. He thinks Belgium and Scotland are the same size!

Belgium has twice the population of Scotland. I call that double, not the same or even similar. :smug:

Both very fond of chips, though!!

Crazyhorse
07-08-2017, 04:19 PM
If this was ever a serious bid for Hibs I would be amazed that the media didn't pick up on it at the time .. this sounds like one phone call that began and ended with RP / STF falling about laughing at a ridiculous valuation of the club.

Mitchell's diatribe is quite hard to follow because of his university dissertation style of writing, I ended up skimming over a lot of it because I was getting bored, but a couple of things did hold my interest long enough to comment.

He did have a point about our failure to improve Hampden and by association the other grounds in Scotland .. fans will be more willing to come if the facilities are better, he didn't say where the money was supposed to come from though, which is perhaps why he didn't last long in football administration.

Where I absolutely and fundamentally disagreed with him was on the mentality of Scottish football fans in reaction to the dominance of the old firm and latterly just Celtic, allied to our dismal International and European club football results. His assertion that fans are accepting of failure on these fronts is wrong .... yes we have come to expect poor results in these areas, but I would not say we tolerate them, the discussion around what we can do about it is never ending, we know its unacceptable and has to change ..... the failure of guys like Mitchell to come up with workable solutions is the problem, not the fans.

But worse is his dismissive attitude to how fans of clubs outside of the Old Firm have changed their culture and outlook on what can be considered a successful season, or even what it actually means to be a fan, in light of Celtic's financial dominance. The culture has become, or at least is becoming, that there is quite a bit of merit in simply supporting your club for the sake of it, that the road to happiness as a fan is seeing your club well supported and thriving to the best of its ability.

From my point of view its as important to me that other fans praise Hibs for the style of our play, the dedication of our supporters and the atmosphere we bring to games as it is how successful we are on the pitch and I think in the face of supporting a nut rather than the Glasgow sledgehammer that cracks it every season there is a lot of merit in that ....... Mitchell scoffs at that and suggests that it is an acceptance of failure ..... but what then is the alternative?

If we simply act like fans of the club he supports Scottish football will die on its arse within a few years. Its clear that his culture if failure to win leagues and trophies should be punished by non attendance ( which is what he is saying so far as I can see ) should be the attitude of fans of all clubs ...... If we go down that route 90% of Scotland's clubs would go bust ...... How can he possible understand the mentality required to be a faithful supporter of a non OF club when as a Celtic supporter he has never woken up on the first day of a season knowing his club has absolutely no chance of winning the league ... for him and folk like him winning just the League Cup in a season is cause for sacking the manager ... for us and clubs like us that manager becomes a hero.

As I said ...... He and his fellow Old Firm supporting pals would scoff at that because they have no concept of what its like to support a club that cant just go out and spend £500,000 to solve its goalkeeping problem or £2,000,000 to resolve a striking problem. We don't support a club that can sign the brightest and the best from other clubs in our league and stick them in the reserves or on the bench till they rot.
In that environment we either change the culture of what it means to be a fan and what makes you proud of your club or we just give up ..... that does not mean we accept our clubs failing to punch their weight and when it comes to a club like Hibs that we don't expect it to win a trophy every few seasons given its size in the Scottish game.

But if Mitchell thinks that all being a football fan is about is supporting clubs that consistently win things and anything else is just a comfort blanket then thank **** he isn't involved in running the game any more ..... I hope the folk running our game now don't have such a lack of understanding of what it really means, and in my opinion should mean, to be a football fan, unfortunately I'm inclined to doubt it.

Rant over.



I have to take issue with you. I've never read a dissertation as bad as that drivel.

I like the idea of Celtic waiting for Godot though - although Mitchell clearly isn't familiar with the play, someone should let him know Godot never arrives...

beensaidbefore
07-08-2017, 04:47 PM
He's rubbish at Geography too. He thinks Belgium and Scotland are the same size!

Belgium has twice the population of Scotland. I call that double, not the same or even similar. :smug:

Scotland is approx 30000 square miles. Belgium is 11000 sq miles. So I agree his geography is not great. No comment t on yours...😁

Bostonhibby
07-08-2017, 05:23 PM
Mitchell an erse. Couldn't even hold onto the Queen Vic. His brother Grant is the far more intelligent of the two.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

21.05.2016
07-08-2017, 05:45 PM
Would be very skeptical of a foreign rich guy, who has no affiliation with the club whatsoever coming in. I don't want us to just be some rich mans play thing that he can just chuck away once he gets bored. Look at the mess it got hearts in and look at the likes of Cardiff City, rich owner who just wants to mess about the club the way he sees fit, changing their colours etc.

If a rich person was to come in and buy hibs I'd want it to be a hibs fan, someone with the club already in their heart. Having said that though, although winning trophies more often would be great, it would feel a little less special if it was bought.

The setup we have now is working, we are managing the club in a sensible way, living within our means and growing fan ownership. A lot of money coming into the club would be highly welcomed of course but I would be very worried indeed having a forgein rich person coming on board, we've seen many times how that can end up going badly wrong.

NAE NOOKIE
07-08-2017, 06:02 PM
Yeah, people with a conscience and principles demonstrating outside the stand - now wouldn't that be just awful.
But at least the sight of our club moving up the league would help take the sting out of the fact that the extra dosh came from someone in the business of supporting the occupation, exploitation and murder of innocents a few thousand miles away.

That's a bit of a stretch mate, the proposed Israeli buyer wasn't even named, there are plenty of people in Israel who don't agree with their mostly right wing governments attitude towards the west bank or the Palestinians in general, I think I would wait and see what the guys background was in that area before I started demonstrating outside the west stand. Just like not all white South Africans were racist during apartheid not all Israelis are ultra orthodox Zionists either.

Unfortunately British and European football is currently awash with cash supplied by middle east countries and families whose attitude towards human rights could at best be described as devil may care .... not least of those being the source of £200,000,000 to buy Neymar and the venue for the world cup after next. I'm willing to bet even a guy like Roman Obramovich hasn't survived this long without being close to Putin, who lets face it isn't exactly the sort of guy to baulk at a few well placed murders in order to stay at the top.

I'm not suggesting for a second I would accept Hibs being funded from an obviously odious source .... but I would be prepared to learn the background of it before I jumped in half cocked.

Scouse Hibee
07-08-2017, 06:15 PM
Yeah, people with a conscience and principles demonstrating outside the stand - now wouldn't that be just awful.
But at least the sight of our club moving up the league would help take the sting out of the fact that the extra dosh came from someone in the business of supporting the occupation, exploitation and murder of innocents a few thousand miles away.

LOL is that you Mick, what a load of ****** about person unknown who may or may not have been interested in Hibs.

connerg
07-08-2017, 06:29 PM
Scotland is approx 30000 square miles. Belgium is 11000 sq miles. So I agree his geography is not great. No comment t on yours...😁

:agree: Maybe i should have said Demography.

When i was at school in the eighties, population of cities and country's was part of Geography. :greengrin

IngolstadtHarry
07-08-2017, 06:35 PM
That's a bit of a stretch mate, the proposed Israeli buyer wasn't even named, there are plenty of people in Israel who don't agree with their mostly right wing governments attitude towards the west bank or the Palestinians in general, I think I would wait and see what the guys background was in that area before I started demonstrating outside the west stand. Just like not all white South Africans were racist during apartheid not all Israelis are ultra orthodox Zionists either.

Unfortunately British and European football is currently awash with cash supplied by middle east countries and families whose attitude towards human rights could at best be described as devil may care .... not least of those being the source of £200,000,000 to buy Neymar and the venue for the world cup after next. I'm willing to bet even a guy like Roman Obramovich hasn't survived this long without being close to Putin, who lets face it isn't exactly the sort of guy to baulk at a few well placed murders in order to stay at the top.

I'm not suggesting for a second I would accept Hibs being funded from an obviously odious source .... but I would be prepared to learn the background of it before I jumped in half cocked.

My comment was aimed principally at the writer's obvious hostility to Mick Napier and anyone supporting Palestinian rights but let's leave that to one side.
Your suggestion that an Israeli real-estate developer could have purely altruistic motives in wanting to take over a football team in Scotland has my mind boggling. There is a small minority of Israelis who are very uncomfortable with the apartheid regime but they are generally not the ones involved in the contruction, foreign investment and real estate businesses.

I'm old enough to remember the stroke of absolute luck Hibs had with Tom Hart but I certainly wouldn't want to risk a foreign money man (of any nationality) coming to buy himself a new toy at Easter Rd.

Crazyhorse
07-08-2017, 06:36 PM
He's rubbish at Geography too. He thinks Belgium and Scotland are the same size!

Belgium has twice the population of Scotland. I call that double, not the same or even similar. :smug:

The one thing that Belgium did was get to grips with a decline in their football at both the league and international level. It required revolutionizing their league set-up with a view to long-term success. Something that will never happen in Scotland.
Mitchell hasn't a clue about Belgian football, Anderlecht and Club Brugge are the two most successful teams and while Brugge is the best supported team Standard and Gent are big successful clubs and Genk and Mechelen have had great teams in recent years. Success in terms of league titles has been shared around much more than in Scotland in recent years.

NAE NOOKIE
07-08-2017, 06:53 PM
My comment was aimed principally at the writer's obvious hostility to Mick Napier and anyone supporting Palestinian rights but let's leave that to one side.
Your suggestion that an Israeli real-estate developer could have purely altruistic motives in wanting to take over a football team in Scotland has my mind boggling. There is a small minority of Israelis who are very uncomfortable with the apartheid regime but they are generally not the ones involved in the contruction, foreign investment and real estate businesses.

I'm old enough to remember the stroke of absolute luck Hibs had with Tom Hart but I certainly wouldn't want to risk a foreign money man (of any nationality) coming to buy himself a new toy at Easter Rd.

I never suggested any such thing .... when I wrote I couldn't recall from the article what the guy did for a living, or even if it had said what he did, but even if he was in real estate I wouldn't dismiss him out of hand, as you say Tom Hart was in the business and as I recall so is the guy who owns Aberdeen FC. It would be up to Hibs to make a judgment call on the guys motives, for all we know that's what we did and he was told to naff off.

As for foreign money men ....... take a look around mate, half the successful clubs in Europe are owned by foreign money men. To shut the door on the only possible chance we realistically could ever have to challenge Celtic financially or make a decent dent in Europe based on a few dodgy owners at other clubs would be incredible short sighted. What I would never tolerate is an owner, any owner, who came in promising millions and then gave money in the form of loans that appeared as debt on the clubs books, leaving him to walk away debt free and leaving the club bust if he got fed up. On that score its hand over the cash no strings attached or don't bother.

The Falcon
07-08-2017, 07:55 PM
That's very true ... I was more thinking that if we could save the interest we currently pay on existing loans then that could pay the wages of a couple of good players. It was just just wishful thinking to make the point that you don't have to be a purist to be against the wholesale take over of your club. We're not against investment but not at any cost. The Cardiff city scenario for example where they had to change their home strip from blue to red to get the dosh!

I agree it's much better if we can sustain 15,000 ST year after year - and we can realistically do that if we win cups and compete in the league and then in Europe. We have to have these ambitions because the prospect of fighting just to make the top six isn't too appealing!

Dont think we pay any interest at this time. Not sure but someone more informed about such things can confirm.

Nakedmanoncrack
07-08-2017, 08:04 PM
LOL is that you Mick, what a load of ****** about person unknown who may or may not have been interested in Hibs.

:hahaha:

Mick Napier is actually a friend of mine as it happens, so I found this quite amusing, I don't know how well you know him to be making statements about him, or his intentions, but if you take some time to understand the BDS movement you'll realise that it isn't about targeting individual Israeli citizens, but those who are complicit. Our goalkeeper for example hasn't faced any protests has he? Many performers also appear at the festival, and only those sponsored by the state are ever targeted for protests.

Scouse Hibee
07-08-2017, 08:13 PM
:hahaha:

Mick Napier is actually a friend of mine as it happens, so I found this quite amusing, I don't know how well you know him to be making statements about him, or his intentions, but if you take some time to understand the BDS movement you'll realise that it isn't about targeting individual Israeli citizens, but those who are complicit. Our goalkeeper for example hasn't faced any protests has he? Many performers also appear at the festival, and only those sponsored by the state are ever targeted for protests.

I know and that was exactly the point that I was making to the previous poster who had drawn so many conclusions about this unknown person of Israeli descent. However as for targeting those who are complicit I have experience of him and his megaphone doing exactly the opposite but that's for another forum.

Pete70
07-08-2017, 08:19 PM
Dont think we pay any interest at this time. Not sure but someone more informed about such things can confirm.

£5m interest free paid to Sir Tom @ £0.5m per year for 10 years IIRC

connerg
07-08-2017, 08:38 PM
Both very fond of chips, though!!

Never been to Belgium. Do they eat real chips or Flemish fries?

Hibbyradge
07-08-2017, 08:48 PM
Never been to Belgium. Do they eat real chips or Flemish fries?

Chips with mayonnaise :drool:

IngolstadtHarry
07-08-2017, 09:20 PM
I know and that was exactly the point that I was making to the previous poster who had drawn so many conclusions about this unknown person of Israeli descent. However as for targeting those who are complicit I have experience of him and his megaphone doing exactly the opposite but that's for another forum.

Yeah, right, "....we'd have had to suffer Mick Napier and his cronies......'.
That line alone tells me that you know nothing about Napier or the many people from all walks of life who support the struggle for Palestinian freedom.
Perhaps you are a Scouse Hibee but I'd guess that you aren't averse to the odd gander at the Sun's political pages. ;-)

Scouse Hibee
07-08-2017, 09:38 PM
Yeah, right, "....we'd have had to suffer Mick Napier and his cronies......'.
That line alone tells me that you know nothing about Napier or the many people from all walks of life who support the struggle for Palestinian freedom.
Perhaps you are a Scouse Hibee but I'd guess that you aren't averse to the odd gander at the Sun's political pages. ;-)

I know enough from first hand experience, as for a gander at the Sun not even your smiley makes that funny or plausible for me. Just to be clear when he stands outside my workplace at the time with a megaphone and his band of merry followers spouting ******, I feel my opinion is quite justified!

jdships
07-08-2017, 09:53 PM
Noble Grossart?

WARM !!
:greengrin

Crazyhorse
07-08-2017, 09:56 PM
Yeah, right, "....we'd have had to suffer Mick Napier and his cronies......'.
That line alone tells me that you know nothing about Napier or the many people from all walks of life who support the struggle for Palestinian freedom.
Perhaps you are a Scouse Hibee but I'd guess that you aren't averse to the odd gander at the Sun's political pages. ;-)

What a house of cards has been built upon this fictional story from that dreadful toad Mitchell.
Perhaps the fictional property dealer who was going to engage in this fictional investment was a fictional Arab Muslim or Christian property developer and not even of fictional Jewish ethnicity.

IngolstadtHarry I think you are leaping to conclusions and making unwarranted judgements about a number of people whose motives you instantly 'understand' because they won't go along with your simplistic black and white viewpoint.

beensaidbefore
07-08-2017, 09:58 PM
:agree: Maybe i should have said Demography.

When i was at school in the eighties, population of cities and country's was part of Geography. :greengrin

Only at the wind up mate. :greengrin:aok:

1875STEVE
07-08-2017, 10:08 PM
Spoke to him on twitter and he says it was less than a year ago,and the guy has "serious, serious money"

He doesn't think he is interested anymore.

connerg
07-08-2017, 10:58 PM
Only at the wind up mate. :greengrin:aok:

No problem. I was just playing the game too. :aok:

NAE NOOKIE
08-08-2017, 04:03 AM
Spoke to him on twitter and he says it was less than a year ago,and the guy has "serious, serious money"

He doesn't think he is interested anymore.

Which sounds a bit strange in itself then ...... in the past year Hibs have gone from strength to strength are back in the Premier league giving us three or 4 chances of making Europe instead of just one and we have shown last season what sort of crowds are possible here with a bit of success and optimism.

Why in that case why would a guy with 'serious, serious money' who was serious about getting into football go soft on an idea so quickly, especially when his target is an even better prospect than it was a year ago? ...... unless he wasn't serious to begin with of course. STF and RP if nothing else can smell a rat a mile off and I have absolute faith that they would vet to the n'th degree any prospective buyer. My guess is he has lost interest because STF wouldn't sell the club to him for any amount of money.

vincipernoi
08-08-2017, 05:54 AM
Which sounds a bit strange in itself then ...... in the past year Hibs have gone from strength to strength are back in the Premier league giving us three or 4 chances of making Europe instead of just one and we have shown last season what sort of crowds are possible here with a bit of success and optimism.

Why in that case why would a guy with 'serious, serious money' who was serious about getting into football go soft on an idea so quickly, especially when his target is an even better prospect than it was a year ago? ...... unless he wasn't serious to begin with of course. STF and RP if nothing else can smell a rat a mile off and I have absolute faith that they would vet to the n'th degree any prospective buyer. My guess is he has lost interest because STF wouldn't sell the club to him for any amount of money.


I wonder how much 'serious serious' is compared to 'off the radar' , maybe one of hibsnet accountant could compile a scale of shysters fictional levels of wealth ?