League Cup Sections Good or Bad?

[Wakeyhibee]

Whilst I realise its not perfect, I think it's an improvement on the previous set up. I can remember the old sections of 6 games, home and away which is fairer but interest seemed to die off in the 80's when it was reintroduced, and maybe not feasible now with extra league games. Appreciate its an early start and runs the risk of clubs treating it as a glorified friendly in what is possibly the most winnable trophy. But it has thrown up better chances of local derbies for teams in different divisions, and for the smaller clubs guaranteed 2 extra home games and more chance of a money spinner ie Peterhead :wink:

Attendances haven't been great for the Premier teams and maybe Dundee Utd, but elsewhere they've held up pretty well. Thoughts?

[Craigmount Hibs]

Simple. Any competition that starts in early/mid July is a shocking idea. Being interviewed before the Ross County game last week, the manager kept talking about being in pre season. They had to remind him it was a competitive game.

The tournament will have a constant pre season feel about it, if they continue in this format.

[Nutmegged]

I like the format but it could be so much better.

If we ever move to a 16 team League we can make this competition a proper regionalised group format and have the four European clubs involved, Edinbrugh Derby, Glasgow, Ayrshire, Dundee, Fife, Renfrewshire derbies, it would give the groups some real pazzaz, integrate the groups into Season Tickets so we can still sell 19 ST matches and keep two derby matches which could keep ST prices at a similar rate.

[Wakeyhibee]

Simple. Any competition that starts in early/mid July is a shocking idea. Being interviewed before the Ross County game last week, the manager kept talking about being in pre season. They had to remind him it was a competitive game.

The tournament will have a constant pre season feel about it, if they continue in this format.

Maybe not the format but the timing agreed

[Phil MaGlass]

Dont know about the timing, for future years, if we really want to compete even with smaller countries, our season must move to earlier starting dates. Theres no choice really, plus we might be more appealing to TV.

[Eyrie]

I like the format but it could be so much better.

If we ever move to a 16 team League we can make this competition a proper regionalised group format and have the four European clubs involved, Edinbrugh Derby, Glasgow, Ayrshire, Dundee, Fife, Renfrewshire derbies, it would give the groups some real pazzaz, integrate the groups into Season Tickets so we can still sell 19 ST matches and keep two derby matches which could keep ST prices at a similar rate.

So we replace two home games against Celtc and Sevco with home games against Livingston and East Fife. And how many groups will there be? And only one of us and The Infamous can make it out of the group each year, with the same problem in Glasgow for the Ugly Sisters? And how are we to fit in the extra League Cup games alongside our European matches?

[ShadesLongThrow]

Any format where Hertz could be out before the end of July gets a big thumbs up from me!

[Sir David Gray]

Any format where Hertz could be out before the end of July gets a big thumbs up from me!

:greengrin

[hibs#1]

I like it,something a bit different.

[Iggy Pope]

Good.
League Cup sections are a fantastic idea if an old one. Worked well in better days for our game than this.
We had great sides in the 50s, 60s and 70s thrive on this format.

[SChibs]

So we replace two home games against Celtc and Sevco with home games against Livingston and East Fife. And how many groups will there be? And only one of us and The Infamous can make it out of the group each year, with the same problem in Glasgow for the Ugly Sisters? And how are we to fit in the extra League Cup games alongside our European matches?

Give me an away day in Dunfermline, Kirkcaldy or Falkirk over celtic/ rangers any day

[lord bunberry]

I like it, but I just wish they'd make it properly regionalised. Why don't we have have north, south, east and west? An Edinburgh Derby would be great and both teams could still qualify.

[iwasthere1972]

Any format where Hertz could be out before the end of July gets a big thumbs up from me!

Me too. Come on the Pars. :thumbsup:

[Sir David Gray]

I like it, but I just wish they'd make it properly regionalised. Why don't we have have north, south, east and west? An Edinburgh Derby would be great and both teams could still qualify.

I wouldn't bet on it. They couldn't beat Peterhead, what makes you think Edinburgh City or Livingston would be any easier? :greengrin

[Nutmegged]

So we replace two home games against Celtc and Sevco with home games against Livingston and East Fife. And how many groups will there be? And only one of us and The Infamous can make it out of the group each year, with the same problem in Glasgow for the Ugly Sisters? And how are we to fit in the extra League Cup games alongside our European matches?

if we moved to a 16 team League we'd cut 8 Match Days out of the League season so we'd have plenty of 'free weekends' to play those League Cup ties...also you'd be looking at two teams qualifying from the group stages.

I'd have a League Cup Play-Off, with the top 20 clubs in order of last seasons league positioning exempt, so bottom 22 and the winners of the Highland & Lowland Leagues, 24 teams, 12 ties, winners of those 12 ties joins the top 20 for the group stages

8 groups of 4, two qualify
last 16
quarter Final
Semi Final
Final

[angus hibby]

Not a fan of the timing of this at all. Realistically, teams in the top league only have two chances of silverware and here we are, playing in one of those competitions in the middle of summer!

Can't see it benefitting part time clubs either - they will have players on holiday with their families when these games are being played. These clubs operate with small squads, they can't play trialists as it's a cup match so I know some of them have struggled to field a team.

[jgl07]

There are eight groups and eight Premiership clubs involved with four being seeded through to the next round.

Please explain why one group (involving Hibs) had two Premiership teams and one (involving ICT) had bugger all?

Are these people thick (Reagan/Doncaster??) or am I missing something?

[Lancs Harp]

There are eight groups and eight Premiership clubs involved with four being seeded through to the next round.

Please explain why one group (involving Hibs) had two Premiership teams and one (involving ICT) had bugger all?

Are these people thick (Reagan/Doncaster??) or am I missing something?

That is a little odd in my thinking too. It's this seasons league cup so should reflect this seasons league status.

[lord bunberry]

I wouldn't bet on it. They couldn't beat Peterhead, what makes you think Edinburgh City or Livingston would be any easier? :greengrin
That's a good point well made :greengrin

[lord bunberry]

There are eight groups and eight Premiership clubs involved with four being seeded through to the next round.

Please explain why one group (involving Hibs) had two Premiership teams and one (involving ICT) had bugger all?

Are these people thick (Reagan/Doncaster??) or am I missing something?
It's because when you take away the clubs who qualified for Europe, it leaves the next best finishers as top seeds.

[brog]

Just seen on programme schedule the Yam game is live on BT tomorrow, is that correct?

[Northernhibee]

Absolute bollocks for the following reasons:


Teams don't get many non competitive pre-season games. I bet you'll see more injuries occurring early season in years to come.
Teams don't get the chance to go on foreign training camps/friendlies in Europe. Hence we're seeing our top flight teams lose to teams from Malta, Gibraltar and Luxemburg. Scottish football has less of a presence in Europe, less investment, less experience for our young players and less exposure of our young players.
Unless you get a catastrophically bad manager (Ian Cathro) the group stages are a foregone conclusion.
It's impossible to take a competition seriously when it's wrapped up by Christmas. It makes it feel like a properly wee cup.
The competition starts when fans are on holiday. Low attendances, lack of atmosphere, pish.
Let's see how many people from Edinburgh will travel to Peterhead/Dingwall for a hugely unglamorous tie, sometimes on a weeknight. Hugely inconvenient for the fans.
Next to no games that could be of interest for live broadcast due to the way it's all split.


It's absolute ****ing bollocks, it's damaging to our game, our players and our clubs. It inconveniences fans and removes interest and excitement from a cup that was needing a boost of image as it was. Whoever come up with the concept is a ****ing idiot and shouldn't be near the circle of influence of our game in this country.

[Sir David Gray]

Just seen on programme schedule the Yam game is live on BT tomorrow, is that correct?

Yes, I think I might record it for a laugh.

[Diclonius]

I like it. Friendly games with an edge. Need to redistribute teams more evenly though - four sections (North, South, East, West) would do nicely.

[HappyAsHellas]

Just seen on programme schedule the Yam game is live on BT tomorrow, is that correct?

Yes, BT1

[Eyrie]

if we moved to a 16 team League we'd cut 8 Match Days out of the League season so we'd have plenty of 'free weekends' to play those League Cup ties...also you'd be looking at two teams qualifying from the group stages.

I'd have a League Cup Play-Off, with the top 20 clubs in order of last seasons league positioning exempt, so bottom 22 and the winners of the Highland & Lowland Leagues, 24 teams, 12 ties, winners of those 12 ties joins the top 20 for the group stages

8 groups of 4, two qualify
last 16
quarter Final
Semi Final
Final

Fair enough - answers a couple of my points.

But I don't see how replacing two sell out Dunbar ends at Category A prices with 100 fans from Berwick or Stenhousemuir and half the crowd is going to help our budget. I'd also prefer competitive games against teams at our own level than one sided training matches. The only thing that can be said for the latter is that it would be a chance to blood some youngsters.

[Nutmegged]

Fair enough - answers a couple of my points.

But I don't see how replacing two sell out Dunbar ends at Category A prices with 100 fans from Berwick or Stenhousemuir and half the crowd is going to help our budget. I'd also prefer competitive games against teams at our own level than one sided training matches. The only thing that can be said for the latter is that it would be a chance to blood some youngsters.

A move to a bigger League would hopefully improve our chances of winning the League, only two games against Celtic instead of four and you'd hope that by only playing every team once a Season at Home it would make those fixtures more appealing to fans, if we're sitting only 4/5 points off Celtic with 10 games to go we wont need to worry about big away supports, the Hibs fans would be packing out Easter Road IMO

[Sir David Gray]

A move to a bigger League would hopefully improve our chances of winning the League, only two games against Celtic instead of four and you'd hope that by only playing every team once a Season at Home it would make those fixtures more appealing to fans, if we're sitting only 4/5 points off Celtic with 10 games to go we wont need to worry about big away supports, the Hibs fans would be packing out Easter Road IMO

I want a bigger league but why would a bigger league improve our chances of winning the title?

OK we would only lose a maximum of six points against Celtic, as opposed to the twelve that we can lose just now. But that would apply to every other team as well.

We would need to be consistent against the other teams in the league, just like we do just now.

If Celtic do what they did last season, you could have 100 teams in the league and they would still win the title at a canter.

[jgl07]

It's because when you take away the clubs who qualified for Europe, it leaves the next best finishers as top seeds.
So why are ICT counted as finishing ahead of Hibernian?

A feeble attempt to justify a bloody stupid arrangement?

[lord bunberry]

So why are ICT counted as finishing ahead of Hibernian?

A feeble attempt to justify a bloody stupid arrangement?
Because they finished 1 place above us in the league placings last season. I'm drunk and maybe I'm having a whoosh moment here, but it seems pretty straight forward to me.

[Hibernianinc]

Simple. Any competition that starts in early/mid July is a shocking idea. Being interviewed before the Ross County game last week, the manager kept talking about being in pre season. They had to remind him it was a competitive game.

The tournament will have a constant pre season feel about it, if they continue in this format.

Preseason games are p1sh.

Turn up in Montrose, play 17 players, win 2-0. What does that tell you?

I'd far rather every Hibs match had meaning. This format means our season starts the day we kick a ball. I missed the first 2 as I was on holiday. But I was far more interested in the results than had they been meaningless.

A good step forward.

[Thecat23]

Preseason games are p1sh.

Turn up in Montrose, play 17 players, win 2-0. What does that tell you?

I'd far rather every Hibs match had meaning. This format means our season starts the day we kick a ball. I missed the first 2 as I was on holiday. But I was far more interested in the results than had they been meaningless.

A good step forward.

I agree with all this, I can't stand pre season games they are usually slow paced and boring. I've actually enjoyed these games and I wasn't sure about it at first. Been a nice change if you ask me.

[gaz1875]

Really good idea although old. Nothing worse than meaningless friendlies where no one really tries or bit part players get a run out. Just a pity the fans haven't been turning up to watch some fantastic football.

[West lower]

This new format has turned one of the major trophies into glorified pre season friendlies. Crowds that barely cover the cost of games. Teams playing squad players. Similar to how the FA cup has been ruined in England. All about opinions though. I have been to them all so far, but doubt I will next year.

[O'Rourke3]

Good. Reminds me of the Dryburgh Cup. Nothing too pre-season or friendly about that competition. First year we won it, we beat Montrose 3-0 at ER....

[Wakeyhibee]

Absolute bollocks for the following reasons:


Teams don't get many non competitive pre-season games. I bet you'll see more injuries occurring early season in years to come.
Teams don't get the chance to go on foreign training camps/friendlies in Europe. Hence we're seeing our top flight teams lose to teams from Malta, Gibraltar and Luxemburg. Scottish football has less of a presence in Europe, less investment, less experience for our young players and less exposure of our young players.
Unless you get a catastrophically bad manager (Ian Cathro) the group stages are a foregone conclusion.
It's impossible to take a competition seriously when it's wrapped up by Christmas. It makes it feel like a properly wee cup.
The competition starts when fans are on holiday. Low attendances, lack of atmosphere, pish.
Let's see how many people from Edinburgh will travel to Peterhead/Dingwall for a hugely unglamorous tie, sometimes on a weeknight. Hugely inconvenient for the fans.
Next to no games that could be of interest for live broadcast due to the way it's all split.


It's absolute ****ing bollocks, it's damaging to our game, our players and our clubs. It inconveniences fans and removes interest and excitement from a cup that was needing a boost of image as it was. Whoever come up with the concept is a ****ing idiot and shouldn't be near the circle of influence of our game in this country.

How on earth can this be ruining Scottish Football, its been ****ed for years!!!! Cast your mind back to when Hibs could give top teams a run for their money, the question is why have we lost so much ground?

[brog]

Yes, BT1

Ta!

[SirDavidsNapper]

Would rather this than uncompetitive pre season games

[LaMotta]

Its working well in terms of interest and competition. Every group today will have a game that means something. Just look at Tuesday night for evidence of excitement.

Surely now though we can put to bed the wild myth that summer football would see an increase in attendances.