Oil Shaw not ready yet

[Still Smiling]

I think Oli needs more time. Feel he needs to impose himself more. His penalty tonight was too weak! Porteous and F Murray look ready to join the first team squad. GGTTH

[The Spaceman]

I think Oli needs more time. Feel he needs to impose himself more. His penalty tonight was too weak! Porteous and F Murray look ready to join the first team squad. GGTTH

Disagree. Tonight could be his Jason Cummings moment - he will survive and he will learn.

[snooky]

I think Oli needs more time. Feel he needs to impose himself more. His penalty tonight was too weak! Porteous and F Murray look ready to join the first team squad. GGTTH
Not much different from Whittaker's pen and he's had years under his belt.

[Borderhibbie76]

1 missed penalty and that's Ollie written off ...this place does my head in sometimes honestly

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[erin go bragh]

Jason Cummings missed his first penalty for us and learned from it .

[Scottie]

I think Oli needs more time. Feel he needs to impose himself more. His penalty tonight was too weak! Porteous and F Murray look ready to join the first team squad. GGTTH
:doh: Wow

[Unseen work]

Jesus, 10 minutes at the end and misses a pen and fans get stuck in.

what did he do that was worse than Murray or Graham?

il tell you a couple that he did do

held the ball up and put it on a plate for boyle

had the balls to take a pen.

Oli Shaw will do absolutely fine and I have more confidence in him scoring than Graham

He is a young player who as well as Murray and porteous are performing well.

[Shrekko]

He made pass of the night to Boyle and shown glimpses of real promise in his appearances so far.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Telegraphed his penalty but I for one ain't pinning the defeat on him

It was a poor penalty- that's all

He'll come out of this stronger and from what I saw I pre season he's far more than 1 spot kick

Oil has a real future and I'm glad it's with us

GGTTH

[horseflesh]

Thought the most nervous looking penalty taker (before and after) was SJM

[Pete]

Can we stop all this and just stick to blaming Brian Graham please.

[Hermit Crab]

Incredible. Lad misses a pen in ridiculously pish competition and that's him written off.....:rolleyes:

[Still Smiling]

Against Dunfermline friendly I felt Oli was a bit lost in first 60 mins. Point I am making is who is ready to join the first team squad? I think Oli is a great prospect but too early. Fraser Murray gets more involved.

[ShinyFantastic]

Forget the penalty. For a guy of his height he seems far too weak and easily gets pushed off the ball when challenging to win a header. I agree he is not ready yet, needs to toughen up.

[007]

Forget the penalty. For a guy of his height he seems far too weak and easily gets pushed off the ball when challenging to win a header. I agree he is not ready yet, needs to toughen up.

Lennon said recently he needs to bulk up a bit.

[JimBHibees]

1 missed penalty and that's Ollie written off ...this place does my head in sometimes honestly

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Agree. Laughable the pen was pretty much his first touch of the ball. 10 points will get us through I think.

[500miles]

He should've been on alongside Simon Murray earlier on to take advantage of the space him and Boyle were creating.

Grahams a decent forward if you're getting crosses into the box or looking for someone to get your knockdown, but the Ross County defence breathed a sigh of relief when they weren't getting dragged around by Murray.

Lennon wants to play 451, but Murray would work better with a partner.

[21sMay]

Shaw will do just fine this season coming off the bench in games we have a comfortable advantage . Far too early to say he can't cut it but Fraser Murray can . Shaw had a bigger impact in the last 10 mins than Murray

[Sammy7nil]

Shaw will do just fine this season coming off the bench in games we have a comfortable advantage . Far too early to say he can't cut it but Fraser Murray can . Shaw had a bigger impact in the last 10 mins than Murray

He will get very few if any opportunities imho
Next year will be his big year.

[Dunbar Hibee]

He was on for 5 minutes for **** sake

[Brightside]

These threads are everything thats wrong with .net. He's a young boy. Loads to learn at this level. Will be given time by people that know what they are doing. He's is not our main striker....so just RELAX.

[RamYer1902]

Oli's a good kid and got a big future ahead of him. Having said that, he needs to go out on loan and get some experience. He still looks very lightweight and needs to go and play regular competitive football. Edinburgh City done wonders for Ryan Porteous last year. I know Oli didn't score enough at Stenhousemuir but another loan deal would do him the world of good in my eyes.


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[Stonewall]

If you think he's got what it takes, give him the support he needs and give him the chance to fail and learn.

Otherwise it's just the same old excuses I've heard for the last 30 years for not pushing youth forward.

[Stokesy's on fire]

Shaw did well when he came on. He has a bright future ahead of him.

[70KevinHFC62]

Agree that he needs to go out on loan again this year. Edinburgh city seems the obvious choice. Plays most weeks but can still train and learn with our 1st team

[Blaster]

Agree that he needs to go out on loan again this year. Edinburgh city seems the obvious choice. Plays most weeks but can still train and learn with our 1st team

Needs to be a higher division in my opinion. Like to see him at a championship club

[neil7908]

Can we just close the thread please? Stokes will score 2 goals on his foray game back for us and folk will want him out for not getting a hatrick!

[Allant1981]

think he needs to bulk up a wee bit but he has plenty time to do that, think he maybe needs a loan move if we get another couple of forwars as he wont start ahead of what we currently have so needs to be playing to improve

[Baw187]

think he needs to bulk up a wee bit but he has plenty time to do that, think he maybe needs a loan move if we get another couple of forwars as he wont start ahead of what we currently have so needs to be playing to improve

He should definitely not be put out on loan. That's half the problem with bleeding youngsters through in the UK, they come through playing at a **** level.

In all walks of life, where there is potential, you need to be challenged and thrown in to situations out with your comfort zone where you will ether learn quickly and get to the level you need to be, or fail.

We need to be throwing Shaw in here and here and nurture him through the more experienced guys in the team and let him get the right experience of playing against the best players week in week out.

Initial signs are that he's good enough to develop in that environment so that should be the plan. If he doesn't hit the mark by the end of the season or next by doing this then he was never good enough in the first place. I don't think that'll be the case.

And crap posts like the OP need to stop and people need to give him the leeway to be inconsistent as he learns.

[Allant1981]

He should definitely not be put out on loan. That's half the problem with bleeding youngsters through in the UK, they come through playing at a **** level.

In all walks of life, where there is potential, you need to be challenged and thrown in to situations out with your comfort zone where you will ether learn quickly and get to the level you need to be, or fail.

We need to be throwing Shaw in here and here and nurture him through the more experienced guys in the team and let him get the right experience of playing against the best players week in week out.

Initial signs are that he's good enough to develop in that environment so that should be the plan. If he doesn't hit the mark by the end of the season or next by doing this then he was never good enough in the first place. I don't think that'll be the case.

And crap posts like the OP need to stop and people need to give him the leeway to be inconsistent as he learns.

is he going to get much game time at hibs? he isnt better than murray, not as good yet as graham, no where near stokes(if he signs) havent seen the new guy yet but he is a 30 odd time capped internationalist so shaw wont be as good as him either, and we may still bring in another forward, the guy isnt going to play so isnt going to get better, let him play more and he will learn more

[Baw187]

is he going to get much game time at hibs? he isnt better than murray, not as good yet as graham, no where near stokes(if he signs) havent seen the new guy yet but he is a 30 odd time capped internationalist so shaw wont be as good as him either, and we may still bring in another forward, the guy isnt going to play so isnt going to get better, let him play more and he will learn more

If Lennon is any kind of manager then he'll have a plan to bleed him in to the team throughout the season. He should be getting game time here and there in the right situations / games. Otherwise when are you ever gong to play him?

With any luck he builds experience and confidence and gets a few goals here and there to establish himself.

[Allant1981]

If Lennon is any kind of manager then he'll have a plan to bleed him in to the team throughout the season. He should be getting game time here and there in the right situations / games. Otherwise when are you ever gong to play him?

With any luck he builds experience and confidence and gets a few goals here and there to establish himself.

think we will agree to disagree on this one, giving him a few minutes here and there imo isnt going to make him a better player, plenty of top international players went out on loan to give them game experience rather than a few minutes here and there and done them no harm

[Baw187]

think we will agree to disagree on this one, giving him a few minutes here and there imo isnt going to make him a better player, plenty of top international players went out on loan to give them game experience rather than a few minutes here and there and done them no harm

Ok but if you are going to put him out on loan, it should be to another PL team. Giving the guy experience at a level not akin to the level we need him at is pointless.

If fans were more chilled out and stopped posting stuff about him not being ready for every little mistake he makes then he'd get more than just 5 mins here and there.

I'm talking about starting him in games at home now and then. Bringing him on for 25mins in big games in the right situation. Etc. Have a proper plan for the laddie for god sake, not just a few mins here and there.

That would be good management and fans would need to see it for what it is and not freak out if he doesn't set the world alight In a particular game.

If he never seems to kick on after doing this then it will be a proper indicator that he isn't cut out for it yet but if Lennon has confidence that he does have what it takes, then this has to be the plan for him.

Sending him to the lower leagues does nothing for nobody with the exception of maybe a top end Championship team.

[guthrie01]

It was a difficult game for the youngsters to come into, Ross County are a squad filled with big heavy players which makes it difficult for them to hold onto the ball. They will have plenty more opportunities to make an impression and I look forward to seeing them again in a more suited game.

[70KevinHFC62]

Needs to be a higher division in my opinion. Like to see him at a championship club

I understand why you think that, I don't disagree as such but we seem to be building a good working partnership with city and I think we would have more influence on them to say when fit he has to feature

[hibsbollah]

Jason Cummings missed his first penalty for us and learned from it .

Cummings also never scored for his first 16 games. I'd say to the OP; give Shaw as much game time as possible, especially in the cups. What are we gaining from playing Brian Graham over him at this stage?

[Allant1981]

Cummings also never scored for his first 16 games. I'd say to the OP; give Shaw as much game time as possible, especially in the cups. What are we gaining from playing Brian Graham over him at this stage?

graham isnt great but shaw isnt a better striker than him, not yet anyway

[edwards]

Cummings also never scored for his first 16 games. I'd say to the OP; give Shaw as much game time as possible, especially in the cups. What are we gaining from playing Brian Graham over him at this stage?


Defo totally agree with this we have Murray and big Dave and feel Shaw should be part of the first team squad, maybe shouldn't have let him take such an important penatly but he must have been up for it hasn't put us out so we must win our two remaining games and hopefully our new signings will be in to make us stronger

[hibsdaft]

keeper goes the other way and he's a hero.

[HFCdeb]

He should definitely not be put out on loan. That's half the problem with bleeding youngsters through in the UK, they come through playing at a **** level.

In all walks of life, where there is potential, you need to be challenged and thrown in to situations out with your comfort zone where you will ether learn quickly and get to the level you need to be, or fail.

We need to be throwing Shaw in here and here and nurture him through the more experienced guys in the team and let him get the right experience of playing against the best players week in week out.

Initial signs are that he's good enough to develop in that environment so that should be the plan. If he doesn't hit the mark by the end of the season or next by doing this then he was never good enough in the first place. I don't think that'll be the case.

And crap posts like the OP need to stop and people need to give him the leeway to be inconsistent as he learns.

I agree with this; he had his time out on loan last season. I'd much prefer him developing and honing his football amongst the likes of McGinn, Stevenson and Whittaker - true professionals who have the right attitude and work ethic, than amongst amateurs with limited skills.
I'm not having a go at the lower leagues but these are formative years for a laddie like him and I think he should be immersing himself in the professional game, learning and developing along the way.

[ALF TUPPER]

1 missed penalty and that's Ollie written off ...this place does my head in sometimes honestly

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This 👍🏻

[Heedersnvolleys]

Lennon said recently he needs to bulk up a bit.

Jesus this does my head in, the lad has probably been at hibs since his early teens yet we are telling him now to bulk up???? It should be a work in progress since joining imo. Even so with supplements these days and diet it should not take long if the lad works at it. It also does my head in that we almost say that about most youth players that come up, what is the youth system doing at EM? The few youth players that do get a chance in the EPL are always physically read, that should be a given.

[Smartie]

Tin hat on - from the admittedly little I've seen of him, I don't think he's ready yet.

I've only seen the brief appearances he's made in the Sunderland, Montrose and Ross County games.

I actually thought he had his best game last night - the ball to Boyle was excellent and was really impressed that he had the balls to step up and take a penalty. Penalties are a bit of a lottery - it wasn't a great penalty but he got it on target and if the keeper had dived the other way then he might have been a hero.

Over the 3 brief glimpses though, he had the chance against Sunderland that hit the bar - I thought he should have done better. He had 2 openings against Montrose and made a bit of a mess of both of them. The second one in particular at the back post after Boyle got the ball across the goalmouth (a perfectly good final ball btw) that he sclaffed with his left foot - Brian Graham would have been lynched for a similar effort.

We need to be a bit ruthless - we're one of the top clubs in the country, we're back in the Premier League and we need to finish as high up that league as we can. We need to have players we can trust to make an impact, even if it is just for 20 minutes at the end of a game. I don't think that we should have players that we only trust if we're cruising (and at Hibs are we ever really cruising?)

I'm not writing him off, not by a long shot. But I don't think I've seen enough to suggest he's ready to make the impact we need him to, and I don't think we can/ should carry him.

I don't think he's far away, but I think he needs to be playing at the highest possible level where he'll play every week so he can build up composure and get a certain "streetwiseness" that goes with playing against dirty, big old heads. A Championship club would probably be ideal, and I'd only make the deal until January so if he does well (which he might) then we could get him back fairly quickly.

[--------]

I think Oli needs more time. Feel he needs to impose himself more. His penalty tonight was too weak! Porteous and F Murray look ready to join the first team squad. GGTTH


What are you 'still smiling' about? Something Hibs did well? Or maybe something Hibs did badly? Or maybe something you like about something some other team did?

'F' Murray's first name is Fraser, btw - did you know that or are you just trolling?

A ridiculously dismissive post about a youngster who shows every sign of being easily good enough to make the grade at Hibs. Even long-experienced great players miss penalties.

I smell something nasty here. :bitchy:

[Allant1981]

What are you 'still smiling' about? Something Hibs did well? Or maybe something Hibs did badly? Or maybe something you like about something some other team did?

'F' Murray's first name is Fraser, btw - did you know that or are you just trolling?

A ridiculously dismissive post about a youngster who shows every sign of being easily good enough to make the grade at Hibs. Even long-experienced great players miss penalties.

I smell something nasty here. :bitchy:

nothing he has said is nasty, think you are juat looking for an argument

[--------]

nothing he has said is nasty, think you are juat looking for an argument


Not looking for an argument - simply speaking my mind.

I was referring to the tone of the post rather than the wording.

[SRHibs]

Not looking for an argument - simply speaking my mind.

I was referring to the tone of the post rather than the wording.

I think you're inferring something that isn't there. The tone of the post seemed fine and your reply was unnecessary. He said F Murray to differentiate between the 2 Murrays. Hardly a crime not writing out his full name.

[Allant1981]

Not looking for an argument - simply speaking my mind.

I was referring to the tone of the post rather than the wording.

there was no tone, you had a go at the poster for their username for instance. he/she hasnt said anything different to a lot of other people

[--------]

I think you're inferring something that isn't there. The tone of the post seemed fine and your reply was unnecessary. He said F Murray to differentiate between the 2 Murrays. Hardly a crime not writing out his full name.


Fine. Have it your way.

[B.H.F.C]

From what I've seen of him I think he's a bit away from the first team. And that has absolutely nothing to do with missing a penalty last night.

With our problems up front I don't think we have time to try and bed a young player in. I don't see him getting much in the way of opportunity.

[SRHibs]

Fine. Have it your way.

Breathe.

[Forza Fred]

He was on for 5 minutes for **** sake

Exactly!

[Baw187]

From what I've seen of him I think he's a bit away from the first team. And that has absolutely nothing to do with missing a penalty last night.

With our problems up front I don't think we have time to try and bed a young player in. I don't see him getting much in the way of opportunity.

We don't we have time? Cause we as fans get impatient if we aren't tearing the league up and winning every game?

That's the short sightedness that has hampered us for years.

In any case, we have a good solid experienced squad that should allow for a few youngsters to play throughout the season with the safety net of not needing to put too much expectation on their shoulders.

[PISTOL1875]

One missed penalty and he's written off. Typical his fans mentality

[B.H.F.C]

We don't we have time? Cause we as fans get impatient if we aren't tearing the league up and winning every game?

That's the short sightedness that has hampered us for years.

In any case, we have a good solid experienced squad that should allow for a few youngsters to play throughout the season with the safety net of not needing to put too much expectation on their shoulders.

That short sightedness hasn't hampered us. Young players who are good enough have always got their chance with us.

IMO it's short sighted to give them more leeway just because they are a young home grown player. I don't care what age a player is, what they've done or where they are from. I just want Hibs to field the strongest team they can.

I'm not writing Oli Shaw off, I just don't think he will have a great impact at this moment in time. I think he clearly needs to develop but to do that he needs game time which I don't see him getting much of.

[--------]

These threads are everything thats wrong with .net. He's a young boy. Loads to learn at this level. Will be given time by people that know what they are doing. He's is not our main striker....so just RELAX.


Shaw did well when he came on. He has a bright future ahead of him.

Totally agree. But Heaven forbid that he might make an mistake and not get hauled over the coals for it. This is Hibsnet, after all.



Breathe.

I fully intend to - for as long as possible.

BTW - are you the OP's carer ... keeper? :devil:

[Deansy]

What utter nonsense - one 'missed' (saved) penalty ffs !!

[--------]

What utter nonsense - one 'missed' (saved) penalty ffs !!

Exactly. :agree:

[21.05.2016]

I think Oli needs more time. Feel he needs to impose himself more. His penalty tonight was too weak! Porteous and F Murray look ready to join the first team squad. GGTTH

He's a young laddie JUST breaking into the first team and he had the guts to take a penalty. Wasn;t the greatest penalty but then again neither was Whittakers and he's a very experienced player. These things happen in a shoot out, McGinns the best player in the team and he missed one last year against Brondby so unfair to really judge someone on that. Lot of developing to do, just like Cummings when he first broke through, but I think we have a good wee player on our hands.

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

Not much different from Whittaker's pen and he's had years under his belt.

:agree: and the exact same penalty the Ross County boy missed. it happens!


Lets lay off the laddie. As someone mentioned last night missing a penalty in a more important penalty shoot-out a few years ago didn't do Cummings any harm in the long run...

[Skol]

No-one has written the lad off but merely said he isnt quite ready

Based on the small amount I have seen, I agree. He looks to have ability but he does look a bit lightweight and also lacking experience. In fact, much like Kenny Miller when he got his first start before I am sure he had a loan spell and came back a much better player.

[The Falcon]

I'm certainly as hopeful as I've been for many tears from what I've seen of Oli Shaw, Fraser Murray and Ryan Porteous so far. After being aware of them for some time (from guys who follow the development teams and those inside ER) it is good to see them getting some game time.

I would add Scott Martin, Lewis Allan and Callum Crane to those three and I remain hopeful for Danny Handling after his setbacks.

[B.H.F.C]

I'm certainly as hopeful as I've been for many tears from what I've seen of Oli Shaw, Fraser Murray and Ryan Porteous so far. After being aware of them for some time (from guys who follow the development teams and those inside ER) it is good to see them getting some game time.

I would add Scott Martin, Lewis Allan and Callum Crane to those three and I remain hopeful for Danny Handling after his setbacks.

Noticeable that Martin or Crane not involved last night. Porteous/Murray/Shaw seem to have overtaken them despite being younger.

[Sammy7nil]

He should definitely not be put out on loan. That's half the problem with bleeding youngsters through in the UK, they come through playing at a **** level.

In all walks of life, where there is potential, you need to be challenged and thrown in to situations out with your comfort zone where you will ether learn quickly and get to the level you need to be, or fail.

We need to be throwing Shaw in here and here and nurture him through the more experienced guys in the team and let him get the right experience of playing against the best players week in week out.

Initial signs are that he's good enough to develop in that environment so that should be the plan. If he doesn't hit the mark by the end of the season or next by doing this then he was never good enough in the first place. I don't think that'll be the case.

And crap posts like the OP need to stop and people need to give him the leeway to be inconsistent as he learns.

Deek went out on loan played at a "####" level it seemed to work for him. I think we should trust the managers judgement whatever thag may be.

[Vini1875]

I'm certainly as hopeful as I've been for many years from what I've seen of Oli Shaw, Fraser Murray and Ryan Porteous so far. After being aware of them for some time (from guys who follow the development teams and those inside ER) it is good to see them getting some game time.

I would add Scott Martin, Lewis Allan and Callum Crane to those three and I remain hopeful for Danny Handling after his setbacks.

All the boys mentioned have bright futures and hopefully will get some game time as the season goes on, but it is a huge step up from loans and development squad to first team players, even first team squad players. Danny Handling is a classic case of a boy with talent not being able to make that step. Talent gets them to the first team dressing room but it is mentality, desire and willingness that will keep them there. Lewis Stevenson is a great example of that.

[Mibbes Aye]

Seen Oli play for the dev team a few times. He is slender but that's probably highlighted due to his height. Didn't cause Peter Crouch many problems.

Like Crouch he has good feet. You can't teach that. I actually don't think he needs to bulk up, I don't think it would necessarily add to his game.

I've tried to get to the dev/age group games over the years, not as many as I'd like to, but seen a good few every season.

Hanlon is the only player who has really properly broken through in recent years. He was a stand-out in what was a very good cohort, to the extent that he was fast-tracked (by Mixu IIRC). It was a really strong team and my favourite was Lee Currie - he had an absolutely exquisite left foot - but I think he is playing juniors now. I guess that shows how tight the margins are in making it as a professional footballer.

We've regularly had forwards who score for fun at age group level - Damon Gray and Kurtis Byrne spring to mind in particular. I think Shaw has better technique than either of them. He isn't like Steven Fletcher as a player but I think he is like him in that he is technically a very good player and am hopeful he will thrive as a consequence.

[The Falcon]

Noticeable that Martin or Crane not involved last night. Porteous/Murray/Shaw seem to have overtaken them despite being younger.

Agreed and hopefully they can get things back on track by working with the coaches. If they do that but still come up a bit short there will be no criticism from me. There may be other reasons that we are not aware of but while they are here they deserve our full support.

[Baw187]

Deek went out on loan played at a "####" level it seemed to work for him. I think we should trust the managers judgement whatever thag may be.

Deek went out for about the same period as Shaw did last year then came in to the team and ripped ***** up!

That's exactly case in point!

[Baw187]

Seen Oli play for the dev team a few times. He is slender but that's probably highlighted due to his height. Didn't cause Peter Crouch many problems.

Like Crouch he has good feet. You can't teach that. I actually don't think he needs to bulk up, I don't think it would necessarily add to his game.

I've tried to get to the dev/age group games over the years, not as many as I'd like to, but seen a good few every season.

Hanlon is the only player who has really properly broken through in recent years. He was a stand-out in what was a very good cohort, to the extent that he was fast-tracked (by Mixu IIRC). It was a really strong team and my favourite was Lee Currie - he had an absolutely exquisite left foot - but I think he is playing juniors now. I guess that shows how tight the margins are in making it as a professional footballer.

We've regularly had forwards who score for fun at age group level - Damon Gray and Kurtis Byrne spring to mind in particular. I think Shaw has better technique than either of them. He isn't like Steven Fletcher as a player but I think he is like him in that he is technically a very good player and am hopeful he will thrive as a consequence.

I think there is a lot to be said for how much exposure these guys get at the right time in their careers to allow them to kick on.

Good managers know how to bleed players with potential in to a team and put them in the right challenging situations that either bring them on or expose them as not being up to the grade. Sticking folk out on endless loans doesn't help anyone who show genuine promise.

In my opinion.

[Mibbes Aye]

I think there is a lot to be said for how much exposure these guys get at the right time in their careers to allow them to kick on.

Good managers know how to bleed players with potential in to a team and put them in the right challenging situations that either bring them on or expose them as not being up to the grade. Sticking folk out on endless loans doesn't help anyone who show genuine promise.

In my opinion.

Yep, fair comment. It's scary that the tipping point might be the mentality of the manager, just as they are hitting their window of opportunity.

Great chapter in Hornby's "Fever Pitch" about Gus Caesar - it basically lays out how players do find their natural level but also describes well how players can shine all the way up to those initial few games for the first team and then disappear rapidly.

[RyeSloan]

Wow some of the over reactions to a perfectly valid point on here are ridiculous...it's like .net PMT sometimes!

That said some rather more sane responses and a half decent discussion about the merits of loan v gradual 1st team exposure. It's certainly something that is obviously quite difficult and as a club (and maybe as a nation) it's not something we have always got right.

As for Oli...Lennon will know of he sees space in the season to develop a young striker. I'll be tempted to think that this won't be his priority in our first season back but I suppose being able to balance this type of short term / long term stuff is what we pay him for.

[Mibbes Aye]

Wow some of the over reactions to a perfectly valid point on here are ridiculous...it's like .net PMT sometimes!

That said some rather more sane responses and a half decent discussion about the merits of loan v gradual 1st team exposure. It's certainly something that is obviously quite difficult and as a club (and maybe as a nation) it's not something we have always got right.

As for Oli...Lennon will know of he sees space in the season to develop a young striker. I'll be tempted to think that this won't be his priority in our first season back but I suppose being able to balance this type of short term / long term stuff is what we pay him for.

There's an argument for playing young strikers as they have an impact in their first season because opposition managers/centre-halves haven't worked them out.

I would rather go with experience but I can see the logic in trying out Shaw at least for the first half of the season. If it was up to me I would be looking to loan him out though. Let him get some game time and get a sense of whether he will cut it at the level we require.

[BH Hibs]

I remember people saying the same about Steven Fletcher. I'd keep playing the lad as much as we can I don't think it'll hurt him one bit.

[jacomo]

I kinda think it's time for him to be tested and see if he's good enough.

We know he can score goals.

[heretoday]

He missed a pen. Big deal.

[brog]

Wow some of the over reactions to a perfectly valid point on here are ridiculous...it's like .net PMT sometimes!

That said some rather more sane responses and a half decent discussion about the merits of loan v gradual 1st team exposure. It's certainly something that is obviously quite difficult and as a club (and maybe as a nation) it's not something we have always got right.

As for Oli...Lennon will know of he sees space in the season to develop a young striker. I'll be tempted to think that this won't be his priority in our first season back but I suppose being able to balance this type of short term / long term stuff is what we pay him for.


Below is what the OP wrote. He wrote this about 90 minutes after the game finished. Oli Shaw ( not Oil ) played for 4 minutes, had the courage to take, but miss a penalty. On that evidence the OP felt it necessary to start a thread with a headline critical of & specific to a young player. In addition he felt the need to make the penalty miss a central plank of his argument regardless of the fact that every great player, Messi for example, has missed a penalty. It's beyond my comprehension why any Hibs fan would want to start a thread of this nature & with those comments.

Oil Shaw not ready yet


I think Oli needs more time. Feel he needs to impose himself more. His penalty tonight was too weak! Porteous and F Murray look ready to join the first team squad. GGTTH

[Steve20]

He won't be starting many games but I look forward to him being around the squad and coming on and playing his part. I think he's more than ready to be part of the first team squad.

[Spike Mandela]

Below is what the OP wrote. He wrote this about 90 minutes after the game finished. Oli Shaw ( not Oil ) played for 4 minutes, had the courage to take, but miss a penalty. On that evidence the OP felt it necessary to start a thread with a headline critical of & specific to a young player. In addition he felt the need to make the penalty miss a central plank of his argument regardless of the fact that every great player, Messi for example, has missed a penalty. It's beyond my comprehension why any Hibs fan would want to start a thread of this nature & with those comments.

Oil Shaw not ready yet


I think Oli needs more time. Feel he needs to impose himself more. His penalty tonight was too weak! Porteous and F Murray look ready to join the first team squad. GGTTH


Hear hear Brog.:aok:

[Speedway]

Below is what the OP wrote. He wrote this about 90 minutes after the game finished. Oli Shaw ( not Oil ) played for 4 minutes, had the courage to take, but miss a penalty. On that evidence the OP felt it necessary to start a thread with a headline critical of & specific to a young player. In addition he felt the need to make the penalty miss a central plank of his argument regardless of the fact that every great player, Messi for example, has missed a penalty. It's beyond my comprehension why any Hibs fan would want to start a thread of this nature & with those comments.

Oil Shaw not ready yet


I think Oli needs more time. Feel he needs to impose himself more. His penalty tonight was too weak! Porteous and F Murray look ready to join the first team squad. GGTTH



Perhaps not a Hibs fan?

[--------]

Below is what the OP wrote. He wrote this about 90 minutes after the game finished. Oli Shaw ( not Oil ) played for 4 minutes, had the courage to take, but miss a penalty. On that evidence the OP felt it necessary to start a thread with a headline critical of & specific to a young player. In addition he felt the need to make the penalty miss a central plank of his argument regardless of the fact that every great player, Messi for example, has missed a penalty. It's beyond my comprehension why any Hibs fan would want to start a thread of this nature & with those comments.

Oil Shaw not ready yet


I think Oli needs more time. Feel he needs to impose himself more. His penalty tonight was too weak! Porteous and F Murray look ready to join the first team squad. GGTTH



Hear hear Brog.:aok:


Perhaps not a Hibs fan?


Which was exactly why I pulled him up about it.

I wonder which team he DOES support?

[Smartie]

I don't know if you can question the OP's Hibs supporting credentials just because he posted an opinion on Oli Shaw's readiness for the first team.

Given his scoring record for the development side and the position he plays we're all quite excited about this prospect, so it is reasonable for us to debate whether or not he is ready and what the best way to use him to realise his potential may be.

I agree with the OP. Does that make me a Jambo or a hun?

Ryan Porteous - has showed in his appearances that he is ready for the first team.
Fraser Murray - has showed in his appearances that he is ready for the first team.
Oli Shaw - in my opinion has not yet showed in his admittedly brief appearances that he is ready for the first team.

[--------]

I don't know if you can question the OP's Hibs supporting credentials just because he posted an opinion on Oli Shaw's readiness for the first team.

Given his scoring record for the development side and the position he plays we're all quite excited about this prospect, so it is reasonable for us to debate whether or not he is ready and what the best way to use him to realise his potential may be.

I agree with the OP. Does that make me a Jambo or a hun?

Ryan Porteous - has showed in his appearances that he is ready for the first team.
Fraser Murray - has showed in his appearances that he is ready for the first team.
Oli Shaw - in my opinion has not yet showed in his admittedly brief appearances that he is ready for the first team.


That's a much more appropriate and reasonable way to make the point.

[Keyser Sauzee]

Folk need to get a grip, just because someone has said that shaw is not ready for the 1st team yet he's got posters calling him a hearts fan.

I've not seen enough of Shaw yet to state whether he is or isn't ready but I'm not going to shoot someone down for having an opposite opinion

[RyeSloan]

Below is what the OP wrote. He wrote this about 90 minutes after the game finished. Oli Shaw ( not Oil ) played for 4 minutes, had the courage to take, but miss a penalty. On that evidence the OP felt it necessary to start a thread with a headline critical of & specific to a young player. In addition he felt the need to make the penalty miss a central plank of his argument regardless of the fact that every great player, Messi for example, has missed a penalty. It's beyond my comprehension why any Hibs fan would want to start a thread of this nature & with those comments.

Oil Shaw not ready yet


I think Oli needs more time. Feel he needs to impose himself more. His penalty tonight was too weak! Porteous and F Murray look ready to join the first team squad. GGTTH


Well we'll need to agree to disagree as my comprehension managed to understand the gist of it.

They think Oli is not ready. I'm tempted to agree.

They think from what they have seen he needs to impose himself more (I.e. Make more of his limited opportunities to date)

And his penalty was weak (it was)

Finishing off my saying the other two main youngsters that have been given game time DO look ready. Again I'm tempted to agree


Quite why some have had a hairy about that lot IS beyond comprehension [emoji23]

[brog]

Well we'll need to agree to disagree as my comprehension managed to understand the gist of it.

They think Oli is not ready. I'm tempted to agree.

They think from what they have seen he needs to impose himself more (I.e. Make more of his limited opportunities to date)

And his penalty was weak (it was)

Finishing off my saying the other two main youngsters that have been given game time DO look ready. Again I'm tempted to agree


Quite why some have had a hairy about that lot IS beyond comprehension [emoji23]

Why would you start a negative thread about a young player shortly after he had just been on the park for a whole 4 minutes? He could have made the same overall point in a constructive fashion after OS had played for a total of 2 hours, & scored 2 goals, in the previous 4 games, His post appeared to me to be an opportunistic dig at a promising young player who had just had the misfortune to miss a penalty. It's for that reason I'm sure that others are questioning his credentials.

[RyeSloan]

Why would you start a negative thread about a young player shortly after he had just been on the park for a whole 4 minutes? He could have made the same overall point in a constructive fashion after OS had played for a total of 2 hours, & scored 2 goals, in the previous 4 games, His post appeared to me to be an opportunistic dig at a promising young player who had just had the misfortune to miss a penalty. It's for that reason I'm sure that others are questioning his credentials.

Why not start a thread discussing it? Probably popped in the persons head that they thought Oli wasn't ready and made a post on it...

As I said in my opinion the reaction has been a bit daft to a perfectly valid point of view.

I'll leave it there as really it's no the end of the world either way [emoji106]

[eastcoasthibby]

Oli Shaw is developing just fine, he has a natural ability that needs to be brought on and nurtured, NL and the coaching team will do this as they see fit. Any negative comments made on the back of the very brief appearance at Ross County, are just not helpful and too be honest, while people can.express views, are pretty naive and lack any real substance, but unfortunately its impossible to stop on these forums. The best we can hope for is that people ease off, on the too often unfounded critical or negative comments, particularly with potential signings, new signings and our young players coming through.
I have to admit I am prone to criticising some of what I have seen and see, which I realise doesn't help, but the frustration of seeing the same old stuff from experienced players, is a bit different (and my justification for having a go or moan), but the amount of anti, negative, criticism, of what in essence is really the unknown quantity of these new players to our first team squad and club, beggars belief at times and doesn't support the players to bed in as quickly as we want them to so we can get as much from them as quickly as possible.
We support the club lets support the players that we have and especially the players who are new to us and developing.