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21.05.2016
17-07-2017, 10:14 AM
Following a discussion last night I thought i'd bring this on here. What players do you think underachieved or didn't live up to their potential for whatever reason.

I'll start with a couple of the obvious ones, O'Connor and Riordan. Both excellent players who absolutely should have gone on to do better for club and country. Riordan was ruined by Celtic and O'Connor got too involved with off field nonsense. A real shame they never had the careers they should have. Riordan in particular was one of the best natural talents i've seen in all my time watching hibs, he really could have been a star at a big club.

Scott Allan being another one. Fabulous talent and should be in the prime of his career playing at a far bigger club than Dundee. Think his attitude has let him down.

hibbysam
17-07-2017, 10:26 AM
Following a discussion last night I thought i'd bring this on here. What players do you think underachieved or didn't live up to their potential for whatever reason.

I'll start with a couple of the obvious ones, O'Connor and Riordan. Both excellent players who absolutely should have gone on to do better for club and country. Riordan was ruined by Celtic and O'Connor got too involved with off field nonsense. A real shame they never had the careers they should have. Riordan in particular was one of the best natural talents i've seen in all my time watching hibs, he really could have been a star at a big club.

Scott Allan being another one. Fabulous talent and should be in the prime of his career playing at a far bigger club than Dundee. Think his attitude has let him down.

I don't think Garry underachieved. He moved for well over £1m from Hibs, done well while not settling in an unfamiliar country, came back and played in the Premier League with Birmingham. Pottered about after that, but if you offer anyone the chance to earn millions abroad and then play in the premier league, after playing for your local side, I think we would all take that.

erin go bragh
17-07-2017, 10:52 AM
Deeks scored over a 100 goals for the team he loves . Hardly underachieving imo .
The guys a Hibs Legend .

The_Exile
17-07-2017, 10:58 AM
Scott Brown. Controversial :greengrin

1van Sprou7e
17-07-2017, 11:02 AM
Deeks scored over a 100 goals for the team he loves . Hardly underachieving imo .
The guys a Hibs Legend .

3rd highest scorer of all time in the SPL

21.05.2016
17-07-2017, 11:02 AM
Deeks scored over a 100 goals for the team he loves . Hardly underachieving imo .
The guys a Hibs Legend .

I know, he certainly never under achieved at hibs, what I meant was that he should of/could of gone on to have a far better career than he did elsewhere. In his prime, he definatly could have cut it down south. Fletcher has done it and IMO Riordan in his absolute prime was better than Fletcher.

21sMay
17-07-2017, 11:07 AM
I think that alot of players who have moved on from us like Brown and Thomson could have played in the English premiership , but when I look at their careers it would be hard to say they underachieved. What I'm trying to say is that Brown and Thomson could have had a decent career in the premiership had they not moved to the ugly sisters

21.05.2016
17-07-2017, 12:02 PM
Hard to say Brown underachieved, he has won so much at celtic but then again thats what your guarenteed at Celtic, your going to win at very least 1 trophy a year. I'll never understand why he didn't have a crack down in England, he certainly had the ability. Nothing wrong with staying at celtic of course but just always thought he could have taken the step up.

Maybe it was personal reasons like not wanting to move his family rather than him not wanting to try his hand down in the English leagues though, i don't know.

Smartie
17-07-2017, 12:06 PM
Brown's ankle injury hit him hard, I think his sister's illness also impacted him.

He turned into a very different player when he went to Celtic, certainly not a bad one, but different to the all-energy player that we had.

I honestly thought when he played for us that he'd play for a top 4 EPL side.

Compared to those expectations you could say he underachieved, but I'm sure he'll be quite happy with his medal collection, Champions League appearances, Scotland caps and £££££££.

jacomo
17-07-2017, 12:16 PM
Benji and Zemmama. Our Moroccan enigmas.

I thought both would go on to better things.

1van Sprou7e
17-07-2017, 12:23 PM
Benji and Zemmama. Our Moroccan enigmas.

I thought both would go on to better things.

Never knew the story about Zemmama having to be sent on loan because his wife was too young (17) to come to the UK while pregnant. I know it's perfectly legal but christ a 25 year old getting a 17 year old pregnant is a bit minging

Centre Hawf
17-07-2017, 12:25 PM
Brown could have cut it down south but I can't blame him captaining a Champions League side, I'm sure he'll look back on those nights Vs Barcelona and Juventus etc and think "aye I done orite". Agree regarding Riordan, boy is a Hibs legend but he could have played for a Premiership team but the move over the M8 killed that momentum he had.

For me I was disappointed not to see Victor Pallson not cut it at Hibs, the man had ability and did go on to have a not too bad career but he was highly rated at Liverpool and could have been a prem midfielder too.

I don't think he underachieved but I was gutted to see Calum Booth plateau a wee bit, I thought that laddie was genuinely one of the most exciting players we brought through in years. An attacking full back with a bit of height and guts in defence. I thought that was captain material. I still fancy him to come back at some point though.

Geo_1875
17-07-2017, 12:29 PM
Brown's ankle injury hit him hard, I think his sister's illness also impacted him.

He turned into a very different player when he went to Celtic, certainly not a bad one, but different to the all-energy player that we had.

I honestly thought when he played for us that he'd play for a top 4 EPL side.

Compared to those expectations you could say he underachieved, but I'm sure he'll be quite happy with his medal collection, Champions League appearances, Scotland caps and £££££££.

I always thought Brown was good enough to play in the English premier. However, he would never have been first choice at a title winning club. He's been the first name on the team sheet for the best team in Scotland for a decade swapping big money for games and trophies. How many players have been accused of doing the reverse. Nowhere near an underachiever.

Geo_1875
17-07-2017, 12:31 PM
Never knew the story about Zemmama having to be sent on loan because his wife was too young (17) to come to the UK while pregnant. I know it's perfectly legal but christ a 25 year old getting a 17 year old pregnant is a bit minging

I take it you've never been near Leith or Wester Hailes?

21.05.2016
17-07-2017, 12:32 PM
I always thought Brown was good enough to play in the English premier. However, he would never have been first choice at a title winning club. He's been the first name on the team sheet for the best team in Scotland for a decade swapping big money for games and trophies. How many players have been accused of doing the reverse. Nowhere near an underachiever.

Good point :aok:

1van Sprou7e
17-07-2017, 12:34 PM
I take it you've never been near Leith or Wester Hailes?

Haha born and bred mate, I know it's not that uncommon and you can very easily argue that there's nothing wrong with it but I'm just surprised to learn about Zemmama's story

21.05.2016
17-07-2017, 12:37 PM
Never knew the story about Zemmama having to be sent on loan because his wife was too young (17) to come to the UK while pregnant. I know it's perfectly legal but christ a 25 year old getting a 17 year old pregnant is a bit minging

She was actually 19.

easty
17-07-2017, 12:46 PM
She was actually 19.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/hibernian/7596043.stm

She was 17

jacomo
17-07-2017, 12:48 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/hibernian/7596043.stm

She was 17


But he was 24!

21.05.2016
17-07-2017, 01:07 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/hibernian/7596043.stm

She was 17

Ah apologies! For some reason I always had it in my head that she was 19. Bit weird a 24 year old going with a 17 year old but not illegal. The jambos singing peado to him is not only incorrect but pretty rich coming from them given their seedy history of employing ACTUAL peados.

FilipinoHibs
17-07-2017, 01:35 PM
3rd highest scorer of all time in the SPL

Had not been frozen out at Celtic would have got more goals and caps.

21.05.2016
17-07-2017, 01:45 PM
Had not been frozen out at Celtic would have got more goals and caps.

Absolutely ruined at celtic, like so many other players. I believe there was a bit of personal conflict with Strachan who was manager at the time but from there his career never really fully recovered sadly.

Still a very good player when he came back to us a second time but not as good as he was when he was with us the first time IMO. Its sad seeing him now playing in Scottish 3rd division (or league 2 whatever its called now), he should be playing at a far higher level than that.

Going back to O'Connor, I know he got his big money move to Russia and did not badly over there then got a crack at Birmingham after his family couldn't settle in Russia. Which is really good but you really do have to wonder what might have been had he stayed away from drugs and all the other off field nonsense he got involved in. Not a bad career he had but I really believe there could have been more from him. He said as much himself actually in an interview shown on sportscene before the cup final last year. He said he's proud of what he achieved but off-field stuff never let him fulfill his full potential.

Geo_1875
17-07-2017, 02:05 PM
Ah apologies! For some reason I always had it in my head that she was 19. Bit weird a 24 year old going with a 17 year old but not illegal. The jambos singing peado to him is not only incorrect but pretty rich coming from them given their seedy history of employing ACTUAL peados.

She was his wife for **** sake. What's weird about getting your wife pregnant?

18Hibee75
17-07-2017, 02:12 PM
Following a discussion last night I thought i'd bring this on here. What players do you think underachieved or didn't live up to their potential for whatever reason.

I'll start with a couple of the obvious ones, O'Connor and Riordan. Both excellent players who absolutely should have gone on to do better for club and country. Riordan was ruined by Celtic and O'Connor got too involved with off field nonsense. A real shame they never had the careers they should have. Riordan in particular was one of the best natural talents i've seen in all my time watching hibs, he really could have been a star at a big club.

Scott Allan being another one. Fabulous talent and should be in the prime of his career playing at a far bigger club than Dundee. Think his attitude has let him down.
I'm possibly Being a wee bit harsh here, and there's obviously still time, but for me Alex Harris has underachieved at hibs a bit. After scoring that goal against Falkirk and a few games leading up to that I thought he was going to be the next big thing for us, sadly it hasn't turned out that way.

Sent from my F3211 using Tapatalk

21.05.2016
17-07-2017, 02:12 PM
She was his wife for **** sake. What's weird about getting your wife pregnant?

Missed point completely.

SRHibs
17-07-2017, 02:17 PM
Ah apologies! For some reason I always had it in my head that she was 19. Bit weird a 24 year old going with a 17 year old but not illegal. The jambos singing peado to him is not only incorrect but pretty rich coming from them given their seedy history of employing ACTUAL peados.

She was 17 and already pregnant and had been with him for a while. Granted it's a different culture, but here, it's minging.

Point scoring over paedophilia is the lowest of the low anyway.

High-On-Hibs
17-07-2017, 02:19 PM
Depends what you consider an achievement. Some players never make the big money, but they have long fulfilling careers well into their 30's and keep themselves fit and healthy both physically and mentally. Then there are those who make the big money early on, but they end up having their careers cut short as a result of the money going to their heads and causing them to make stupid choices.

High-On-Hibs
17-07-2017, 02:21 PM
She was 17 and already pregnant and had been with him for a while. Granted it's a different culture, but here, it's minging.

Point scoring over paedophilia is the lowest of the low anyway.

Perhaps. But still perfectly legal and not as uncommon as people like to believe.

allezsauzee
17-07-2017, 02:32 PM
Deeks scored over a 100 goals for the team he loves . Hardly underachieving imo .
The guys a Hibs Legend .

To my mind Deeks is easily the most naturally talented footballer produced by Hibs in the past 40 years. If you compare what he did in the game to what players like Kenny Miller and Steven Fletcher did when they had a fraction of his talent, I'd say he underachieved.

He's a Hibs legend but should have been a Hibs and Scotland legend.

pacoluna
17-07-2017, 02:42 PM
She was 17 and already pregnant and had been with him for a while. Granted it's a different culture, but here, it's minging.

Point scoring over paedophilia is the lowest of the low anyway.

what's there to score points over? zemamma wasn't a paedophile :confused: perfectly legal, only barrier was her not being issued with a permit.

21.05.2016
17-07-2017, 03:29 PM
Depends what you consider an achievement. Some players never make the big money, but they have long fulfilling careers well into their 30's and keep themselves fit and healthy both physically and mentally. Then there are those who make the big money early on, but they end up having their careers cut short as a result of the money going to their heads and causing them to make stupid choices.

Very true. Take Lewis Stevenson for example, he found his level at hibs, will be earning a decent enough wage here but hardly "mega bucks" but I reckon he will look back on his career and be pretty satisfied. Its different for every player though. I love Lewis but he was never going to cut it at a bigger club, this is his level and he's made a success out of it.

Riordan and the likes COULD however have made it at bigger clubs but never lived up to their full potential. Riordan, unlike Stevenson probably wont look back on his career and be completely satisfied. I'm sure he's very proud that he was able to play and score goals for his boyhood club but he will have many regrets and will always think about "what might have been".

Scouse Hibee
17-07-2017, 03:45 PM
Never knew the story about Zemmama having to be sent on loan because his wife was too young (17) to come to the UK while pregnant. I know it's perfectly legal but christ a 25 year old getting a 17 year old pregnant is a bit minging

8 years age difference is nothing and they were married, can't see the issue myself.

basehibby
17-07-2017, 03:47 PM
Never knew the story about Zemmama having to be sent on loan because his wife was too young (17) to come to the UK while pregnant. I know it's perfectly legal but christ a 25 year old getting a 17 year old pregnant is a bit minging

Minging? How so??? Like you say - 100% legal - and by your logic a 30 year old marrying a 22 year old would also presumably be "minging".
17 is young by modern UK norms where many people are waiting til the (medicaly more risky) mid 30s to have bairns, but by our own laws you can get married and die for your country at age 16 so even allowing for cultural differences the "minging" tag is prudish, OTT, and insulting to Zemmama - who was a cracking player for us when fit and, I thought, came across as a great personality.

SChibs
17-07-2017, 03:51 PM
Hard to say Brown underachieved, he has won so much at celtic but then again thats what your guarenteed at Celtic, your going to win at very least 1 trophy a year. I'll never understand why he didn't have a crack down in England, he certainly had the ability. Nothing wrong with staying at celtic of course but just always thought he could have taken the step up.

Maybe it was personal reasons like not wanting to move his family rather than him not wanting to try his hand down in the English leagues though, i don't know.

He's on 25k a week winning trophies year after year and playing against the like of barca amd Juve in the champions league. Maybe he thought a bit less money and winning stuff was better than playing for Everton earning 80k a week but winning nothing

Viva_Palmeiras
17-07-2017, 03:56 PM
Never knew the story about Zemmama having to be sent on loan because his wife was too young (17) to come to the UK while pregnant. I know it's perfectly legal but christ a 25 year old getting a 17 year old pregnant is a bit minging

Thought folks could get married at 16 in Scotland? Can't see that being illegal?!

21.05.2016
17-07-2017, 03:59 PM
He's on 25k a week winning trophies year after year and playing against the like of barca amd Juve in the champions league. Maybe he thought a bit less money and winning stuff was better than playing for Everton earning 80k a week but winning nothing

True. At the end of the day when he's grey and old he will be able to show his grandchildren his medal and tell them many tales of when he won this, that and the next thing. Unlike, as you say a player on big money not winning anything. I'm sure their grandkids wont be bothered about stories of how much money he made!

MWHIBBIES
17-07-2017, 04:23 PM
True. At the end of the day when he's grey and old he will be able to show his grandchildren his medal and tell them many tales of when he won this, that and the next thing. Unlike, as you say a player on big money not winning anything. I'm sure their grandkids wont be bothered about stories of how much money he made!Thing is, his Grandchildren will probably grow tired of hearing the story of ''Well Celtic had more money than everyone else so we just kinda won it''

Browns medal with Hibs is worth more than all his Celtic medals put together.

SRHibs
17-07-2017, 04:32 PM
what's there to score points over? zemamma wasn't a paedophile :confused: perfectly legal, only barrier was her not being issued with a permit.

But had he not already been with her for over 2 years at that time? Lol. It's weird as **** if you ask me. Each to their own though.

SRHibs
17-07-2017, 04:34 PM
Minging? How so??? Like you say - 100% legal - and by your logic a 30 year old marrying a 22 year old would also presumably be "minging".
17 is young by modern UK norms where many people are waiting til the (medicaly more risky) mid 30s to have bairns, but by our own laws you can get married and die for your country at age 16 so even allowing for cultural differences the "minging" tag is prudish, OTT, and insulting to Zemmama - who was a cracking player for us when fit and, I thought, came across as a great personality.

What? 16-24 is the same as 22-30? That's not his logic, that's your logic. So by your logic, in countries where it's legal, it's perfectly fine for a 12 year old and a 20 year old to get married?

Have you met a 16 year old girl before? The difference in maturity between a 16 year old and a 24 year old is enormous. It's monumentally different to 22/30.

beensaidbefore
17-07-2017, 04:43 PM
Fabian yantorno. I know the guys was injured when he came but he was brilliant for gretna. Dont think he even scored for us?

Chris hogg. Thought he was gonna be ace when he first signed. Whilst he was ok, dont think he would get a game for us now. M

beensaidbefore
17-07-2017, 04:47 PM
What? 16-24 is the same as 22-30? That's not his logic, that's your logic. So by your logic, in countries where it's legal, it's perfectly fine for a 12 year old and a 20 year old to get married?

Have you met a 16 year old girl before? The difference in maturity between a 16 year old and a 24 year old is enormous. It's monumentally different to 22/30.


I get your point. But who decides when people are mature enough? Is there a cut off somewhere. It could be argued that a 20 yo and 40 yo are incompatible, or a 40 and a 60 yo basing that purely on their ages.

21.05.2016
17-07-2017, 04:50 PM
Fabian yantorno. I know the guys was injured when he came but he was brilliant for gretna. Dont think he even scored for us?

Chris hogg. Thought he was gonna be ace when he first signed. Whilst he was ok, dont think he would get a game for us now. M

I remember being quite excited when we signed him actually. The best player in that Gretna team by far. Although it was a big step up going from Gretna to hibs, I still thought he'd do really well for us.

LancashireHibby
17-07-2017, 04:53 PM
Half your age plus seven is the acceptable age gap. Proven fact.

beensaidbefore
17-07-2017, 04:54 PM
I remember being quite excited when we signed him actually. The best player in that Gretna team by far. Although it was a big step up going from Gretna to hibs, I still thought he'd do really well for us.

I was the same. Thought it was a shrewd bit of business offering him rehab. Pity he never really recovered.

Hibs4185
17-07-2017, 05:51 PM
Vaz Te? Was pretty garbage for us and then turned up at West Ham a couple of years later. I remember seeing a transfer rumour with a figure quoted at £10 million for him. Couldn't believe my eyes

Smartie
17-07-2017, 06:12 PM
I thought Zoubir looked incredible the first time I saw him, yet he did very little for us.

Seemingly he's done quite well since he left.

Northernhibee
17-07-2017, 06:26 PM
Very true. Take Lewis Stevenson for example, he found his level at hibs, will be earning a decent enough wage here but hardly "mega bucks" but I reckon he will look back on his career and be pretty satisfied. Its different for every player though. I love Lewis but he was never going to cut it at a bigger club, this is his level and he's made a success out of it.

Riordan and the likes COULD however have made it at bigger clubs but never lived up to their full potential. Riordan, unlike Stevenson probably wont look back on his career and be completely satisfied. I'm sure he's very proud that he was able to play and score goals for his boyhood club but he will have many regrets and will always think about "what might have been".

FWIW I think Lewis would cut it in the Championship down south. His first touch is sublime, hits defensive work is solid, he wins a lot of headers and his workrate is exemplary.

steelendhibs
17-07-2017, 06:28 PM
I thought Zoubir looked incredible the first time I saw him, yet he did very little for us.

Seemingly he's done quite well since he left.

De La cruz. Good player. Got his move to villa as graham Taylor was co-commentating on the Italy Ecuador game when he roasted Paolo Maldini at the world cup. Apart from the double against the yams he was pretty underwhelming if memory serves me correctly

hibbydog
17-07-2017, 06:46 PM
Zemmama by far

His home debut v Motherwell was scarily good. And the next week at parkhead he was outstanding. I can remember thinking we'd do well to hold onto him for more than one season.

In the end he never did it consistently and couldn't do it over a whole 90 minutes

jacomo
17-07-2017, 07:02 PM
De La cruz. Good player. Got his move to villa as graham Taylor was co-commentating on the Italy Ecuador game when he roasted Paolo Maldini at the world cup. Apart from the double against the yams he was pretty underwhelming if memory serves me correctly


I loved DLC but I don't think he under achieved.

He was not bad for us but hardly sensational, yet played in a WC and got a big money move to the EPL when we were suddenly looking to cut costs.

Overall he did just fine.

brog
17-07-2017, 07:46 PM
De La cruz. Good player. Got his move to villa as graham Taylor was co-commentating on the Italy Ecuador game when he roasted Paolo Maldini at the world cup. Apart from the double against the yams he was pretty underwhelming if memory serves me correctly

He was magnificent against AEK.

Mick O'Rourke
17-07-2017, 08:47 PM
Jimmy ORourke "underachieved" !!


That is according to a former Hearts and rAngers legend.
This legend, speaking to the late great Alan Gordon at a "football dinner" got talking about the Jimmy and Alan partnership.

He (the legend) reckoned that Jimmy was not much of a football player.. and all he could do was score goals;-)

Goodness me, Jimmy, what went wrong?

You could have been a Hibernian hero!


True story. btw
I wont name the "legend"
But Tosh told me that story

basehibby
18-07-2017, 02:28 AM
What? 16-24 is the same as 22-30? That's not his logic, that's your logic. So by your logic, in countries where it's legal, it's perfectly fine for a 12 year old and a 20 year old to get married?

Have you met a 16 year old girl before? The difference in maturity between a 16 year old and a 24 year old is enormous. It's monumentally different to 22/30.

You are asking some pretty daft questions mate - I was 16 once and obviously knew plenty of 16 year olds back then - and yes most of them, like myself, were pretty immature at that age - but then again so are many 20-somethings (with professional footballers certainly not an exception).
Anyway - this is a football forum and not a suitable place to debate the age of consent either for this or any other country - and equally it's not the place to stand as some kind of pompous moral arbiter for someone who broke no laws either here or in his homeland - a place where cultural and societal norms are not necessarily the same as here. And that's why I find it objectionable that someone who obviously knows little or nothing about the circumstances of their relationship, feels the need to imply that Zemmama - a cracking wee player for Hibs (on the rare occasions when he was fit and available) who always came across as a genuinely good guy - was some kind of perv for - shock horror - getting his wife pregnant!

Anyway - this is totally off topic and sadly, Zemmama was certainly one who never really reached his potential at Hibs. Horrendously injury prone and also, like his fellow Morrocan, Benji, a stickler for Ramadan - the combo of which made it a rarity that they were both up and running and able to utilise the empathetic understanding they seemed to have on the pitch.