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21.05.2016
17-07-2017, 09:51 AM
So the HSL have just launched their new "Target £100,000" campaign (see video below). Sparked quite a lot of debate on social media I see, a lot of people unhappy about them asking the fans to fork out when we have just sold our best player for £1m (at least), high sales of the new kits and approaching record ST sales.

Thoughts?


https://vimeo.com/225654050

StevieCowan
17-07-2017, 09:54 AM
Very bad timing IMO and do we know what the £100k is for, why it's needed now and how it would "support Neil".

Can't see this even being close to a success.

Steve-O
17-07-2017, 09:56 AM
Bizarre IMO.

As you say, having sold Cummings + 12k season tickets, thousands of replica kits, is there really a need to ask for more?! Surely £100k isn't even that much out of that lot?

Keith_M
17-07-2017, 09:57 AM
Very bad timing IMO and do we know what the £100k is for, why it's needed now and how it would "support Neil".

Can't see this even being close to a success.


All money raised from the purchase of Hibs Shares under the recent share release will be 'invested'* in the club, be it players or otherwise.

Hence any money given to HSL for the shares purchase will be used for the same.





* Obviously not 'invested' with a view to making money for the person that donates it.

Heisenberg
17-07-2017, 09:57 AM
Bizarre IMO.

As you say, having sold Cummings + 12k season tickets, thousands of replica kits, is there really a need to ask for more?! Surely £100k isn't even that much out of that lot?

The club aren't asking for more.

Father Ted
17-07-2017, 09:58 AM
Shocking timing imo when the fans have backed the club more than ever through the purchasing of record numbers of season tickets.

Steve-O
17-07-2017, 09:59 AM
The club aren't asking for more.

I didn't say they were, but HSL are. Aren't they shareholders in the club?

matty_f
17-07-2017, 10:02 AM
I don't see the problem with it, to be honest. It could have been done better, but ultimately the money the club generated itself only goes so far, we have a vehicle in HSL that gives us scope to put more money in.

Big_Franck
17-07-2017, 10:03 AM
Good on them I say. HSL have been criticised for being too quiet and not promoting themselves enough, and when they do they get stick. Ambitious target but they do say they hope to raise it 'over the next few months' so not impossible.

CapitalGreen
17-07-2017, 10:04 AM
As a member of HSL, I've been increasingly disappointed with them recently. Their social media/marketing output is pitiful, most of it cringe worthy hashtags and graphics more suited to a hibs news/transfers type account.

We hear very little for months except claiming to be responsible for signings then out of the blue they are asking for £100k for vague purposes.

BegbieHSC
17-07-2017, 10:05 AM
The video is very poorly timed, but it probably is indicative of why we need something like HSL to get us towards fan ownership. We have alot of wealth in our owners, and alot of wealth going in to the club, but our club is severely lacking in accountability and as a result, it can often be perceived that we are not re-investing.
We have spent a fortune as fans, and sold our best player, and are now being asked for more to make us competitive. It does beg the question where our cash goes.

matty_f
17-07-2017, 10:07 AM
The video is very poorly timed, but it probably is indicative of why we need something like HSL to get us towards fan ownership. We have alot of wealth in our owners, and alot of wealth going in to the club, but our club is severely lacking in accountability and as a result, it can often be perceived that we are not re-investing.
We have spent a fortune as fans, and sold our best player, and are now being asked for more to make us competitive. It does beg the question where our cash goes.

In what way is the club severely lacking in accountability?

Arch Stanton
17-07-2017, 10:08 AM
Shocking timing imo when the fans have backed the club more than ever through the purchasing of record numbers of season tickets.

I back the club by contributing to HSL. My season ticket buys me cheaper access to home games.

It seems we want a super-dooper replacement for JC but we don't want to stump up any cash to contribute.

BegbieHSC
17-07-2017, 10:12 AM
In what way is the club severely lacking in accountability?

accountability is perhaps the wrong phrase, as it's fantastic having fan reps at a board level now, and is a real sign of progress.

I suppose my point veers on to the debate of fan ownership as a whole and Farmer, and our future direction.

Steve-O
17-07-2017, 10:12 AM
In what way is the club severely lacking in accountability?

Telling us where all the ST money has gone. Not telling us how much they got for Cummings.

Ozyhibby
17-07-2017, 10:13 AM
HSL is a response to FoH which is putting £1.25m a year into Hearts.


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CapitalGreen
17-07-2017, 10:14 AM
Founding directors of HSL only have 6 months left before they resign so there will be an opportunity for us members to pick this up and hopefully move it forward.

From http://www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk/faq.html:

9. Will members be able to vote on/off Directors of the HSL board?

Yes. Founding Directors resign after 3 years.

10. Will non-HSL members be able to be voted onto the HSL board?

No

11. When will the first membership meeting be held to elect the board?

To provide stability the founding members are appointed for 3 years after which they will resign and stand for re-election. The articles outline the procedure. Therefore the first elections will be in 2018.

12. How often do HSL expect to consult the members, or will members simply elect a board who will have executive authority to make all decisions regarding how the HSL shareholding will vote?

Clearly we shall consult before every AGM however in general terms consultation requirements will be driven by the members. Voting intentions at the AGM will be determined by a simple majority of the membership.
The Directors will start a process of consultation when there are sufficient members to determine the form and method of taking members wishes to the Board of HFC. When we achieve 20% of the shares we will have a Director on the Board and therefore direct access.

13. If the membership of HSL is split on an issue (say 55-45) will the whole HSL shareholding vote in accordance with the 55%, or will it be pro-rated?

The democratic process would prevail. Voting intentions at the AGM will be determined by a simple majority of the membership.

Steve-O
17-07-2017, 10:14 AM
HSL is a response to FoH which is putting £1.25m a year into Hearts.


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Are they though? I thought those were pledges? Has any money actually changed hands?

Ozyhibby
17-07-2017, 10:16 AM
Are they though? I thought those were pledges? Has any money actually changed hands?

They have transferred over £5m so far.


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CapitalGreen
17-07-2017, 10:18 AM
HSL is a response to FoH which is putting £1.25m a year into Hearts.


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Obviously, FoH was started when Hearts were in a more precarious position than we are/were so they were able to secure greater funding. However, the package that members/donators of HoH get compared to HSL is night and day.

FoH host a number of events throughout the year, there is clearly defined benefits for different levels of donation, they have great interaction with their members and consult them before money is passed to the club so the members can decide whether they are happy with how it will be used.

Keith_M
17-07-2017, 10:20 AM
Are they though? I thought those were pledges? Has any money actually changed hands?


I think they(FoH pledgers) pay every month by direct debit, which is given to the club.

As we all know, the money was supposed to be for shares but their priorities changed and it was used largely on the playing front and is now being used to help top up the shortfall for the new Stand.

Betty Boop
17-07-2017, 10:21 AM
Millionaires asking fans to put their hands in their pocket yet again. Why don't the Proclaimers put on a concert at Easter Road to raise cash ?

BegbieHSC
17-07-2017, 10:22 AM
Obviously, FoH was started when Hearts were in a more precarious position than we are/were so they were able to secure greater funding. However, the package that members/donators of HoH get compared to HSL is night and day.

FoH host a number of events throughout the year, there is clearly defined benefits for different levels of donation, they have great interaction with their members and consult them before money is passed to the club so the members can decide whether they are happy with how it will be used.

Got to give FoH its due - they even had runners at EMF 2017.

Although in spite of this, i'd be radge about the Budge/Levein situation, and be asking serious questions about FoH

Ozyhibby
17-07-2017, 10:22 AM
Obviously, FoH was started when Hearts were in a more precarious position than we are/were so they were able to secure greater funding. However, the package that members/donators of HoH get compared to HSL is night and day.

FoH host a number of events throughout the year, there is clearly defined benefits for different levels of donation, they have great interaction with their members and consult them before money is passed to the club so the members can decide whether they are happy with how it will be used.

I agree, FoH has done a great job for them.


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BegbieHSC
17-07-2017, 10:24 AM
Millionaires asking fans to put their hands in their pocket yet again. Why don't the Proclaimers put on a concert at Easter Road to raise cash ?

Quite surprised that this hasn't been mooted tbh. Certainly after the cup win - would have been a great way to maintain a feel good factor, and raise money for fan ownership too.

GreenLake
17-07-2017, 10:26 AM
I thought the purpose of HSL was to buy shares in the club. Why would they waste money on social events with bunting and refreshments? They put the money into share ownership and that's what has happened.

How many shares has FoH bought with the £5m handed over to their club?

1875STEVE
17-07-2017, 10:27 AM
What's "vague" about it, he says 2 or 3 times in the opening 30 seconds what it's for.

To raise extra transfer funds for the manager, which in turn allows more shares in the club to be bought - the whole point of HSL.

Chuck Rhoades
17-07-2017, 10:29 AM
Horrendous timing. Very poor judgement from those involved. Has actually put me off investing further into HSL, perhaps an emotional overreaction.

Keith_M
17-07-2017, 10:29 AM
Millionaires asking fans to put their hands in their pocket yet again. Why don't the Proclaimers put on a concert at Easter Road to raise cash ?



Wouldn't that mean they were still asking the fans to put their hands in their pockets again, by having to pay for the tickets?


It's like when some mega rich pop star has a charity concert, the fans are still the ones that give the actual money.

Geo_1875
17-07-2017, 10:29 AM
Obviously, FoH was started when Hearts were in a more precarious position than we are/were so they were able to secure greater funding. However, the package that members/donators of HoH get compared to HSL is night and day.

FoH host a number of events throughout the year, there is clearly defined benefits for different levels of donation, they have great interaction with their members and consult them before money is passed to the club so the members can decide whether they are happy with how it will be used.

They're called Lodge meetings :wink:

HSL don't have the same need to consult/beg as they have one function and that is to purchase shares in the club.

matty_f
17-07-2017, 10:29 AM
Telling us where all the ST money has gone. Not telling us how much they got for Cummings.

We can see every year where the season ticket money goes, it's all accounted for.

By all accounts the clubs agreed that the Cummings fee would remain undisclosed (confirmed on the supporters' rep thread).

I'm not sure how either of your points demonstrate a lack of accountability, to be honest.

matty_f
17-07-2017, 10:30 AM
Millionaires asking fans to put their hands in their pocket yet again. Why don't the Proclaimers put on a concert at Easter Road to raise cash ?

How much have the Proclaimers put in?

Keith_M
17-07-2017, 10:32 AM
There's some incredible over-reactions on here to what seems to be a commendable effot to raise money for our club.


If you don't want to donate, then don't. Nobody's forcing anybody.

matty_f
17-07-2017, 10:32 AM
Horrendous timing. Very poor judgement from those involved. Has actually put me off investing further into HSL, perhaps an emotional overreaction.

What's horrendous about the timing? Should they wait until after the transfer window? It's not like they're doing it on the back of some abysmal event. We've done well in pre-season, have made excellent signings so far, and let one key player go on the back of an agreement made when Cummings signed a contract extension to ensure we got some cash for him.

Very much an overreaction, imho.

CapitalGreen
17-07-2017, 10:33 AM
I thought the purpose of HSL was to buy shares in the club. Why would they waste money on social events with bunting and refreshments? They put the money into share ownership and that's what has happened.

How many shares has FoH bought with the £5m handed over to their club?

I wasn't referring to social events, I was referring to meetings to discuss plans, hear from group leaders, cast votes etc.

The members of FoH voted to delay the share purchases in order to support the club in the development of their new stand. HSL has been running for 2.5 years now and I don't think I have been consulted as a member of anything once in that time.

Geo_1875
17-07-2017, 10:33 AM
So which media outlet will be first to announce "Hibs fans turn back on club"?

matty_f
17-07-2017, 10:34 AM
There's some incredible over-reactions on here to what seems to be a commendable effot to raise money for our club.


If you don't want to donate, then don't. Nobody's forcing anybody.

:agree:

"It'd be great if everyone could pitch in to get some more money into the club to help the manager and that."

"**** you, that's a disgraceful idea."

matty_f
17-07-2017, 10:35 AM
I wasn't referring to social events, I was referring to meetings to discuss plans, hear from group leaders, cast votes etc.

The members of FoH voted to delay the share purchases in order to support the club in the development of their new stand. HSL has been running for 2.5 years now and I don't think I have been consulted as a member of anything once in that time.

What has happened that you should have been consulted on?

HSL was set up to raise money and buy shares with a long term view of having fan ownership.

At the moment they are raising funds and buying shared. That's their remit as things stand. There's nothing more to be consulted about as far as I can see.

Lee Marvin
17-07-2017, 10:36 AM
Can't believe the negativity towards HSL. If you can afford a certain amount each month, great. If you can't, no problem.

However, why use it as a stick to beat the club with?! As has already been mentioned, hearts fans are contributing £1.25m per year to the club, on top of seasons and merchandising. That's pretty phenomenal (even taking into account when it was started) and is going to be a MASSIVE advantage for them in the long run if the current figures for both clubs is roughly maintained.

I wish we had 8000 punters contributing whst they can afford each month.

CapitalGreen
17-07-2017, 10:36 AM
:agree:

"It'd be great if everyone could pitch in to get some more money into the club to help the manager and that."

"**** you, that's a disgraceful idea."

The fans have already pitched in to record numbers in recent months though. Smashed season ticket sales targets. Highest first day sales of new strips.

Geo_1875
17-07-2017, 10:36 AM
I wasn't referring to social events, I was referring to meetings to discuss plans, hear from group leaders, cast votes etc.

The members of FoH voted to delay the share purchases in order to support the club in the development of their new stand. HSL has been running for 2.5 years now and I don't think I have been consulted as a member of anything once in that time.

HSL have one stated aim and that is to purchase shares. When enough shares are purchased to obtain a seat on the board they will consult members on matters requiring a vote. That's why members haven't been consulted yet.

Ozyhibby
17-07-2017, 10:38 AM
£100,000 is enough to pay the salary of an extra first team player for next season. And that would be for a top player in our wage structure. That's what this is for.
It entirely voluntary though.


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CapitalGreen
17-07-2017, 10:38 AM
Can't believe the negativity towards HSL. If you can afford a certain amount each month, great. If you can't, no problem.

However, why use it as a stick to heat the club with?! As has already been mentioned, hearts fans are contributing £1.25m per year to the club, on top of seasons and merchandising. That's pretty phenomenal (even taking into account when it was started) and is going to be a MASSIVE advantage for them in the long run of the current figures for both clubs is roughly maintained.

I wish we had 8000 punters contributing whst they can afford each month.

I have no problem with the model, I have concerns about the execution. In comparison with FoH, HSL appears wholly amateur.

matty_f
17-07-2017, 10:40 AM
Can't believe the negativity towards HSL. If you can afford a certain amount each month, great. If you can't, no problem.

However, why use it as a stick to heat the club with?! As has already been mentioned, hearts fans are contributing £1.25m per year to the club, on top of seasons and merchandising. That's pretty phenomenal (even taking into account when it was started) and is going to be a MASSIVE advantage for them in the long run of the current figures for both clubs is roughly maintained.

I wish we had 8000 punters contributing whst they can afford each month.

That along with Aberdeen's director boosting their money, we have sold fewer season tickets than Hearts and want to finish the season above then.

They have fund raising for their stand so that their transfer budget isn't impacted, and have loads of money going on through FoH.

That negates our session ticket sales and probably Cummings' fee if we're really wanting to compete.

ElginHibbie
17-07-2017, 10:41 AM
The fans have already pitched in to record numbers in recent months though. Smashed season ticket sales targets. Highest first day sales of new strips.

And that is great, but what about fans like me who don't live near Edinburgh and don't want to buy a strip? HSL allows me to contribute and believe that is who is really targeted at.

It's not the club out with a begging bowl, someone at HSL has decided that now during transfer window is a good time for a push, some on here disagree and that's fine. I will continue my monthly payment as best way for me to support the club

lord bunberry
17-07-2017, 10:42 AM
There's some incredible over-reactions on here to what seems to be a commendable effot to raise money for our club.


If you don't want to donate, then don't. Nobody's forcing anybody.
That's my view on it. I don't get the outrage tbh. These sort of things should be happening on a far more regular basis. The HSL scheme hasn't had anywhere near enough publicity as it should, lots of people don't even know it exists.

matty_f
17-07-2017, 10:43 AM
The fans have already pitched in to record numbers in recent months though. Smashed season ticket sales targets. Highest first day sales of new strips.

Hearts have higher season ticket sales and had record sales of their strips afaik, and they have FoH.

We're not going to be able to compete with that without help.

CapitalGreen
17-07-2017, 10:44 AM
And that is great, but what about fans like me who don't live near Edinburgh and don't want to buy a strip? HSL allows me to contribute and believe that is who is really targeted at.

It's not the club out with a begging bowl, someone at HSL has decided that now during transfer window is a good time for a push, some on here disagree and that's fine. I will continue my monthly payment as best way for me to support the club

As I mentioned above, I have no issue with the HSL model and the aims it is trying to achieve - I am a member myself! I have issues with how it is being run/marketed.

Velma Dinkley
17-07-2017, 10:45 AM
I have no problem with the model, I have concerns about the execution. In comparison with FoH, HSL appears wholly amateur.

Quite the opposite. FoH was set up to raise funds to buy shares in the club and doesn't seem to have spent one penny on shares to date. The reason they have at times consulted fans is that they keep diverting the funds to other causes due to the Hearts' continued financial mismanagement. HSL on the other hands has been buying shares with funds raised, which is edging Hibs closer towards fan ownership while also providing our manager with extra funds for the team. I know which one I prefer :flag:

Geo_1875
17-07-2017, 10:46 AM
I have no problem with the model, I have concerns about the execution. In comparison with FoH, HSL appears wholly amateur.

So if HSL paid a couple of Directors and hired a PR company you'd be happy to hand over your cash?

CapitalGreen
17-07-2017, 10:47 AM
Hearts have higher season ticket sales and had record sales of their strips afaik, and they have FoH.

We're not going to be able to compete with that without help.

I agree, I am in favour of HSL (I'm a member). I just don't think they are doing a great job on the marketing/engagement side of things.

As a membership group, surely the membership should be able to question how it is being run?

CapitalGreen
17-07-2017, 10:48 AM
So if HSL paid a couple of Directors and hired a PR company you'd be happy to hand over your cash?

That's quite a leap from what I said, bravo.

Lee Marvin
17-07-2017, 10:50 AM
Hearts have higher season ticket sales and had record sales of their strips afaik, and they have FoH.

We're not going to be able to compete with that without help.

There is a thread on brokeback just now discussing the impact of FOH once the stand is paid off and budgie I'd paid back. If they maintain their current numbers, they are going to have huge financial power over us again.

This is obviously ifs, buts and maybes however a genuine possibly if we don't not increase HSL membership significantly.

Smartie
17-07-2017, 10:51 AM
The timing IS a bit strange.

Words like horrendous are a bit ott but I question the wisdom in this plea, at this time.

We've sold record numbers of season tickets, we've sold one of our biggest assets and we're looking forward to the increased revenues that come as part of being a team in the top league.

Hibs should have a bundle of money burning a hole in their pocket right now.

Punters have dug deep to contribute to these record ST ticket sales. By getting the begging bowl out again (and whichever way we like to dress this up, that is essentially what it is) then people will be justified in asking where the last lot of money went?

If this had been in the days after we'd announced a big name striker, I'd maybe understand.

But the timing seems strange to me.

Velma Dinkley
17-07-2017, 10:52 AM
The timing IS a bit strange.

Words like horrendous are a bit ott but I question the wisdom in this plea, at this time.

We've sold record numbers of season tickets, we've sold one of our biggest assets and we're looking forward to the increased revenues that come as part of being a team in the top league.

Hibs should have a bundle of money burning a hole in their pocket right now.

Punters have dug deep to contribute to these record ST ticket sales. By getting the begging bowl out again (and whichever way we like to dress this up, that is essentially what it is) then people will be justified in asking where the last lot of money went?

If this had been in the days after we'd announced a big name striker, I'd maybe understand.

But the timing seems strange to me.

Not many beggars give you a football club in return for money.

Ozyhibby
17-07-2017, 11:00 AM
I agree, I am in favour of HSL (I'm a member). I just don't think they are doing a great job on the marketing/engagement side of things.

As a membership group, surely the membership should be able to question how it is being run?

Absolutely agree. There will be elections coming up soon I think so that should engage the membership and also give the chance for those among the support who have the knowledge and experience in things like marketing etc to step up.


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Zondervan
17-07-2017, 11:01 AM
What % of overall Hibs shares do HSL currently hold, and what is the % threshold to achieve a seat on the board?


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lord bunberry
17-07-2017, 11:03 AM
The timing IS a bit strange.

Words like horrendous are a bit ott but I question the wisdom in this plea, at this time.

We've sold record numbers of season tickets, we've sold one of our biggest assets and we're looking forward to the increased revenues that come as part of being a team in the top league.

Hibs should have a bundle of money burning a hole in their pocket right now.

Punters have dug deep to contribute to these record ST ticket sales. By getting the begging bowl out again (and whichever way we like to dress this up, that is essentially what it is) then people will be justified in asking where the last lot of money went?

If this had been in the days after we'd announced a big name striker, I'd maybe understand.

But the timing seems strange to me.
HSL isn't the club. Record season ticket sales have nothing to do with HSL. Our main rivals hearts and the sheep have money coming into the club outwith what they generate themselves. Like it or not, to be competitive we need to do the same.

Ozyhibby
17-07-2017, 11:03 AM
What % of overall Hibs shares do HSL currently hold, and what is the % threshold to achieve a seat on the board?


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Not sure if the current percentage but HSL get a seat on the board at 20%.


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ElginHibbie
17-07-2017, 11:04 AM
The timing IS a bit strange.

Words like horrendous are a bit ott but I question the wisdom in this plea, at this time.

We've sold record numbers of season tickets, we've sold one of our biggest assets and we're looking forward to the increased revenues that come as part of being a team in the top league.

Hibs should have a bundle of money burning a hole in their pocket right now.

Punters have dug deep to contribute to these record ST ticket sales. By getting the begging bowl out again (and whichever way we like to dress this up, that is essentially what it is) then people will be justified in asking where the last lot of money went?

If this had been in the days after we'd announced a big name striker, I'd maybe understand.

But the timing seems strange to me.

Still be at the club, unless we have given Whittaker a hell of a signing on bonus.

Pretty Boy
17-07-2017, 11:06 AM
If people want to contribute they can do so, if they don't then they can choose not to. Like anything else no one is forcing you to spend your money.

The criticism of the timing is a bit strange. Post the cup final and on the back of great ST sales HSL went quiet and were criticised for doing so. Post promotion and on the back of great ST sales they make a pitch and are criticised for doing so :confused:

I'll probably start sticking a few pound in again. I let my payments lapse after becoming a member but this is a timely reminder to get back on board. With elections to the HSL board coming up it seems as good a time as any tol gte involved. That way you have a vote to get the people that you feel can drive things forward running the show.

lucky
17-07-2017, 11:07 AM
HSL is a vehicle for fan ownership but it's had a few issues. A couple of the main directors have been ill, they've had problems with Go Cardless the company that collects the money, they made a decision not to invest in PR or a company to manage the website. Hopefully this is the start of them being active again. But what's needed is fresh blood and impetus into the running of HSL. There has been little or no communication with members and that has led to disillusionment with the Scheme. As for the timing surely it can't be a bad thing to try and teach a £100k for additional money for players. But what it does show is FOH has connected & maintained as a way for Hearts fans to put cash into their club in a way HSL has never managed

21.05.2016
17-07-2017, 11:09 AM
I hate when HSL is compared to FoH. Same kind of idea but hearts fans HAD to fork out, their club was in absolute dire straights and they were facing the very real prospect of their club dying, we aren't in such crisis.

Baw187
17-07-2017, 11:10 AM
If people want to contribute they can do so, if they don't then they can choose not to. Like anything else no one is forcing you to spend your money.

The criticism of the timing is a bit strange. Post the cup final and on the back of great ST sales HSL went quiet and were criticised for doing so. Post promotion and on the back of great ST sales they make a pitch and are criticised for doing so :confused:

I'll probably start sticking a few pound in again. I let my payments lapse after becoming a member but this is a timely reminder to get back on board.

Agree with this. HSL are simply pitching for people with an inclination to do so, to invest more in club shares.

It's not driven by the club and is completely optional so why anyone is bad mouthing this announcement is beyond me.

21.05.2016
17-07-2017, 11:11 AM
If people want to contribute they can do so, if they don't then they can choose not to. Like anything else no one is forcing you to spend your money.

The criticism of the timing is a bit strange. Post the cup final and on the back of great ST sales HSL went quiet and were criticised for doing so. Post promotion and on the back of great ST sales they make a pitch and are criticised for doing so :confused:

I'll probably start sticking a few pound in again. I let my payments lapse after becoming a member but this is a timely reminder to get back on board. With elections to the HSL board coming up it seems as good a time as any tol gte involved. That way you have a vote to get the people that you feel can drive things forward running the show.

My thoughts exactly.

ElginHibbie
17-07-2017, 11:11 AM
HSL is a vehicle for fan ownership but it's had a few issues. A couple of the main directors have been ill, they've had problems with Go Cardless the company that collects the money, they made a decision not to invest in PR or a company to manage the website. Hopefully this is the start of them being active again. But what's needed is fresh blood and impetus into the running of HSL. There has been little or no communication with members and that has led to disillusionment with the Scheme. As for the timing surely it can't be a bad thing to try and teach a £100k for additional money for players. But what it does show is FOH has connected & maintained as a way for Hearts fans to put cash into their club in a way HSL has never managed

Surely a lot of that has to do with the fact it was life and death of the club for them and they have been to ride that wave of positivity for a while? Be interesting to see if their numbers are effected if Cathro continues their stunning recent form.

HSL sure aren't perfect, but once members can elect people on to it's board that'll hopefully be improve.

Bostonhibby
17-07-2017, 11:11 AM
I thought the purpose of HSL was to buy shares in the club. Why would they waste money on social events with bunting and refreshments? They put the money into share ownership and that's what has happened.

How many shares has FoH bought with the £5m handed over to their club?Agree.

When I hand over the cash I do it recognising that I'm helping fans take ownership of as much or as little as we want to take in our club.

I'm personally happy with a meaningful holding rather than outright ownership.

The fact that money raised this way helps the team is a welcome bonus. We knew that from the start but as fan ownership is the proposition I'd have bought regardless.

The yam model is miles away from that. Their emotions are being played to fund things that move the shares further away, the one shareholder basks in the glory of the "improvements" being made yet they are increasing the value of her asset should she ever decide to cash in or they can't pay up. Nearly said she can also move the goalposts [emoji6]

Worse they're going to be paying high interest rates at some point if the handover of shares ever begins. They'd no choice, it was the only option to save their club from disappearing after the spending everyone else's money years.

HSL is a good to have, plenty want or wanted it by choice. The choice is what separates us from the yam. The shares we've bought so far do help the team. We're not scratching around trying to assemble one part of a run down neglected stadium.



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Chuck Rhoades
17-07-2017, 11:12 AM
:agree:

"It'd be great if everyone could pitch in to get some more money into the club to help the manager and that."

"**** you, that's a disgraceful idea."

No foul language was used ;)


In terms of timing, it was probably more to do with theirbeing record STs, strip sales, cup final DVDs etc all sold. Wouldn’t the timinghave been better when things dried up a bit – i.e. before the Jan window?

lucky
17-07-2017, 11:16 AM
Surely a lot of that has to do with the fact it was life and death of the club for them and they have been to ride that wave of positivity for a while? Be interesting to see if their numbers are effected if Cathro continues their stunning recent form.

HSL sure aren't perfect, but once members can elect people on to it's board that'll hopefully be improve.

The argument they had to save their club HAD merit. But the reality is their club is saved and has been for 3 years but 8000 of them are putting money into their club which is contributing £1.2m a year. At this point they've not received any shares but have achieved promotion, European football and are paying for a new stand. We've received some shares and contributed to signing players. If 8000 Hibbies paid in just think of the team we could have.

Ozyhibby
17-07-2017, 11:21 AM
Surely a lot of that has to do with the fact it was life and death of the club for them and they have been to ride that wave of positivity for a while? Be interesting to see if their numbers are effected if Cathro continues their stunning recent form.

HSL sure aren't perfect, but once members can elect people on to it's board that'll hopefully be improve.

Hearts are no longer in dire straights. If they all stop paying FoH now all that will happen is Budge owns the club. The fans have got behind FoH though as they can see the advantage it gives them over ourselves and Aberdeen.


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Ozyhibby
17-07-2017, 11:23 AM
Agree.

When I hand over the cash I do it recognising that I'm helping fans take ownership of as much or as little as we want to take in our club.

I'm personally happy with a meaningful holding rather than outright ownership.

The fact that money raised this way helps the team is a welcome bonus. We knew that from the start but as fan ownership is the proposition I'd have bought regardless.

The yam model is miles away from that. Their emotions are being played to fund things that move the shares further away, the one shareholder basks in the glory of the "improvements" being made yet they are increasing the value of her asset should she ever decide to cash in or they can't pay up. Nearly said she can also move the goalposts [emoji6]

Worse they're going to be paying high interest rates at some point if the handover of shares ever begins. They'd no choice, it was the only option to save their club from disappearing after the spending everyone else's money years.

HSL is a good to have, plenty want or wanted it by choice. The choice is what separates us from the yam. The shares we've bought so far do help the team. We're not scratching around trying to assemble one part of a run down neglected stadium.



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It's not increasing the value of her asset as FoH have an agreed fixed price to buy of her.


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Bostonhibby
17-07-2017, 11:25 AM
It's not increasing the value of her asset as FoH have an agreed fixed price to buy of her.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIt should do if she ever finds herself having to or choosing to sell it elsewhere later. Unless of course the ground was worth more with the leaky asbestos stand in place[emoji6]

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Dobosz83
17-07-2017, 11:30 AM
Hearts have higher season ticket sales and had record sales of their strips afaik, and they have FoH.

We're not going to be able to compete with that without help.

Spot on Matty.

We can all point at the new stand, the cost involved and ridicule the cash cow and their promises of chips (HAHA!) but they have sold more season tickets and their fans are chucking money into FoH.

Personally, I think with the window being open, it's a good idea to bring up and promote HSL.

CapitalGreen
17-07-2017, 11:30 AM
It should do if she ever finds herself having to or choosing to sell it elsewhere later. Unless of course the ground was worth more with the leaky asbestos stand in place[emoji6]

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Downplaying the benefit of FoH to Hearts does nothing to improve the benefit that HSL can be for Hibs.

ElginHibbie
17-07-2017, 11:31 AM
The argument they had to save their club HAD merit. But the reality is their club is saved and has been for 3 years but 8000 of them are putting money into their club which is contributing £1.2m a year. At this point they've not received any shares but have achieved promotion, European football and are paying for a new stand. We've received some shares and contributed to signing players. If 8000 Hibbies paid in just think of the team we could have.

My point is they have those numbers because they had big uptake when they had to, and so far been no real reason for people to cancel their direct debits for the reasons you listed above.

My_Wife_Camille
17-07-2017, 11:33 AM
To be fair, I can't quite put my finger on it but my first reaction was that it was a bit cheeky and that the timing was bad. Fans are backing the club in greater numbers than ever, kit sales are at an all time high, we've had some great cup runs over the last few years, we're just off the back of selling our to striker as well as the money that is already being paid to HSL. After all that we are still being asked to pitch in more. I know HSL and the Club are different entities but it still boils down to the general public giving their money to Hibs.

I get the issue with timing. Maybe if this plea had come in the days immediately after securing promotion it would have been received better?

HSL could do a lot more. Prizes, raffles, dinners, events, concerts etc would all be great ideas. Yes it would still be the fans paying but they'd be getting a little more out of it than just setting up a direct debit and hoping that something comes from it.

I also think that the high profile members of the HSL board could do more. I wouldn't dream of telling anybody now to spend their money but I can't help but feel that if the likes of Charlie Reid were seen to be leading by example by putting in some of their own cash then it would help.

matty_f
17-07-2017, 11:33 AM
No foul language was used ;)


In terms of timing, it was probably more to do with theirbeing record STs, strip sales, cup final DVDs etc all sold. Wouldn’t the timinghave been better when things dried up a bit – i.e. before the Jan window?



I'm not sure there is an ideal time to ask people for money, imho. There's a case to be made for leaving it, like you say, but also one to be made for striking while the iron is hot.

lucky
17-07-2017, 11:34 AM
My point is they have those numbers because they had big uptake when they had to, and so far been no real reason for people to cancel their direct debits for the reasons you listed above.

But the point surely is that 3 years after having to step up to the plate 8000 are still contributing. The last figure I heard about HSL membership was 1200 but I'm not sure how many of that still contribute each month

Bostonhibby
17-07-2017, 11:35 AM
Downplaying the benefit of FoH to Hearts does nothing to improve the benefit that HSL can be for Hibs.[emoji106]

You're preaching to the converted. I was just responding to the guys reasonable point. We do see people praising the FOH efforts, I'm on record as acknowledging it's impressive but there's a flip side too.

Pretty easy to separate input into that debate from recognising and supporting what HSL is about. That's what I try to do.

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Smartie
17-07-2017, 11:36 AM
If people want to contribute they can do so, if they don't then they can choose not to. Like anything else no one is forcing you to spend your money.

The criticism of the timing is a bit strange. Post the cup final and on the back of great ST sales HSL went quiet and were criticised for doing so. Post promotion and on the back of great ST sales they make a pitch and are criticised for doing so :confused:

I'll probably start sticking a few pound in again. I let my payments lapse after becoming a member but this is a timely reminder to get back on board. With elections to the HSL board coming up it seems as good a time as any tol gte involved. That way you have a vote to get the people that you feel can drive things forward running the show.

The main reason I'm being critical of the timing is that I think that timing is often critical in getting people to engage and contribute.

Nobody wants to see this fail - the exact opposite, we all want to see it succeed.

There needs to be some sort of carrot or stick attached to the plea, often with evidence put forward as to why it is a good idea.

If Hibs were in the last chance saloon I don't doubt everyone would stand up and throw more money at the club. We're not though.

If a recent expensive signing were put forward, not necessarily bought out of the receipts taken for other players but as an example of what could be done by backing HSL then I'm sure people would be keener to get involved.

There is a slightly "meh" feeling amongst the fans at the moment.

I just feel that the appeal might have been more successful if they had waited a few weeks/ done it a few weeks earlier.

(We made excellent moves early in the window - maybe it would have been more suitable around the times that we announced the new contracts, Efe and Swanson signing?)

ElginHibbie
17-07-2017, 11:37 AM
But the point surely is that 3 years after having to step up to the plate 8000 are still contributing. The last figure I heard about HSL membership was 1200 but I'm not sure how many of that still contribute each month

Yeah, my point should just be I don't see how we will compete with their numbers without something to give us the initial big sign up they had

lucky
17-07-2017, 11:39 AM
Yeah, my point should just be I don't see how we will compete with their numbers without something to give us the initial big sign up they had

Fair point, but if fans want to compete we've got to find away if getting more money into the club

Geo_1875
17-07-2017, 11:42 AM
To be fair, I can't quite put my finger on it but my first reaction was that it was a bit cheeky and that the timing was bad. Fans are backing the club in greater numbers than ever, kit sales are at an all time high, we've had some great cup runs over the last few years, we're just off the back of selling our to striker as well as the money that is already being paid to HSL. After all that we are still being asked to pitch in more. I know HSL and the Club are different entities but it still boils down to the general public giving their money to Hibs.

I get the issue with timing. Maybe if this plea had come in the days immediately after securing promotion it would have been received better?

HSL could do a lot more. Prizes, raffles, dinners, events, concerts etc would all be great ideas. Yes it would still be the fans paying but they'd be getting a little more out of it than just setting up a direct debit and hoping that something comes from it.

I also think that the high profile members of the HSL board could do more. I wouldn't dream of telling anybody now to spend their money but I can't help but feel that if the likes of Charlie Reid were seen to be leading by example by putting in some of their own cash then it would help.

I wasn't aware that they hadn't contributed any of their own money. Are they just in it for the free publicity? That's a scandal.

Ozyhibby
17-07-2017, 11:44 AM
Fair point, but if fans want to compete we've got to find away if getting more money into the club

That's what it all comes down to. If we want to compete we have to find a way.
They have more season ticket holders who pay higher prices than us. We can probably cope with that but the FoH money on top will make it difficult. Luckily just now they are spending most of it on the new stand but once that's finished it is going to give them a massive advantage over us.


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My_Wife_Camille
17-07-2017, 11:45 AM
I wasn't aware that they hadn't contributed any of their own money. Are they just in it for the free publicity? That's a scandal.
Read it again

Speedway
17-07-2017, 11:49 AM
We can see every year where the season ticket money goes, it's all accounted for.

By all accounts the clubs agreed that the Cummings fee would remain undisclosed (confirmed on the supporters' rep thread).

I'm not sure how either of your points demonstrate a lack of accountability, to be honest.

It's unlikely to be 'undisclosed' if it's £10m. It's undisclosed because it's low enough to irk the support (see: Luke Berry). No disclosing that figure is a lack of accountability without disclosing the reasons why.


Can't believe the negativity towards HSL. If you can afford a certain amount each month, great. If you can't, no problem.

However, why use it as a stick to beat the club with?! As has already been mentioned, hearts fans are contributing £1.25m per year to the club, on top of seasons and merchandising. That's pretty phenomenal (even taking into account when it was started) and is going to be a MASSIVE advantage for them in the long run if the current figures for both clubs is roughly maintained.

I wish we had 8000 punters contributing whst they can afford each month.

Agreed. At some point we need to stop congraulating ourselves for selling 1500 STs less than those cretins. They've sold 13,500 WITH Cathro in charge. Imagine if they had a manager.


£100,000 is enough to pay the salary of an extra first team player for next season. And that would be for a top player in our wage structure. That's what this is for.
It entirely voluntary though.


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Are you sure Ozy? That's less than £2k per week.

ElginHibbie
17-07-2017, 11:52 AM
Fair point, but if fans want to compete we've got to find away if getting more money into the club

Exactly why I contribute every month, but as far how we get more people to sign up you'll need to ask someone smarter!

matty_f
17-07-2017, 11:56 AM
It's unlikely to be 'undisclosed' if it's £10m. It's undisclosed because it's low enough to irk the support (see: Luke Berry). No disclosing that figure is a lack of accountability without disclosing the reasons why.



Agreed. At some point we need to stop congraulating ourselves for selling 1500 STs less than those cretins. They've sold 13,500 WITH Cathro in charge. Imagine if they had a manager.



Are you sure Ozy? That's less than £2k per week.

That's one of the reasons a fee might be undisclosed, but it's not an exclusive reason.

We might not want selling clubs (or expectant fans...) to think we have x amount to spend because of that transfer.

Ozyhibby
17-07-2017, 12:00 PM
If Cummings fee was low because we gave him a buy out clause then I'm happy with that because I would have been raging if we had sold him last summer before promotion and without the new contract he would have left for nothing.


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Ozyhibby
17-07-2017, 12:02 PM
It's unlikely to be 'undisclosed' if it's £10m. It's undisclosed because it's low enough to irk the support (see: Luke Berry). No disclosing that figure is a lack of accountability without disclosing the reasons why.



Agreed. At some point we need to stop congraulating ourselves for selling 1500 STs less than those cretins. They've sold 13,500 WITH Cathro in charge. Imagine if they had a manager.



Are you sure Ozy? That's less than £2k per week.

It won't be far away. We don't pay big wages at all (in football terms).


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OfficialHSL
17-07-2017, 12:04 PM
As I mentioned above, I have no issue with the HSL model and the aims it is trying to achieve - I am a member myself! I have issues with how it is being run/marketed.
Capital Green
We are very grateful for whatever contribution you are currently making to HSL and we can assure that all of your money is going to the Club and we are receiving shares in return. The Club are very grateful to receive our regular funding and I know for certain that Neil Lennon appreciates all of our efforts.

Jackie, Charlie, Gordon, Kenny and myself have all tried our best over the last few years to generate as much funds to get into our Club during this difficult period. We have now donated £455,000 and account for approximately 12%. You feel that we haven't done as well as we could have done and perhaps we haven't. We would of course welcome any additional expertise that can be offered by you or others.

The last three years have been a very difficult time for the Club and our best estimate would be that we will have seen about 1.5m of losses during this period so it follows that receipts from player sales are a very helpful source of funds. Clearly improved Season ticket sales are a help but the stark reality is that no Club in Scotland, other than Celtic is awash with money.

We are very pleased and grateful for the generous support from our 1600 members who nearly all also buy merchandise and Season tickets. What we really need is many more of our supporters to join if we want to make a meaningful difference. This is not about HSL or us as Directors it is about us collectively as fans. We need to decide what we want for our Club. Fans on little or no income of course cannot assist in this way but help by attending some or all games. Other fans however who are in a more comfortable position we would hope could manage that extra £10 per month.

FOH are contributing about £120,000 per month to the Club not because of a few large donators but because they have 8000 small donators.

We are not looking to raise an extra £100,000 just like that, but many more Members joining and committing to this amount allows Leeann and Neil to do more.

When it comes to timing, as others have pointed out there is never a good time to seek extra money as we are always competing with other initiatives. So please help if you can and support our initiative. If you can help in other ways please send a pm.


HSL

worcesterhibby
17-07-2017, 12:25 PM
To be honest I don't think there is anything wrong with the appeal in principal, but I did find the video a bit underwhelming. I completely understand that HSL don't want to spend money on PR firms etc, but jeez what a glum appeal...I wasn't sure if it was Charlie Reid or Ricky Fulton in "Last Call".

These sort of things need to be upbeat, hopeful and full of passion. Instead we get Charlie slumped in a chair looking like he's had a few too many masons pies recently talking about how "Quality players don't come cheap these days"...It needed footage of the cup final parade, stirring music and a message which said.."stick together and we can share more glory" "invest in HSL..invest in the future of Hibernian..invest in all our dreams"

I do still have a £10 a month DD running and it will continue, but I can't imagine that video will encourage many more fans to do the same...which is a pity.

Speedway
17-07-2017, 12:28 PM
That's one of the reasons a fee might be undisclosed, but it's not an exclusive reason.

We might not want selling clubs (or expectant fans...) to think we have x amount to spend because of that transfer.

Then we tell them the payments are staged or performance related or are due in unused Lithuanian bank notes etc but when the fee is undisclosed, someone doesn't want it known and that means that the board is still not being accountable to Johnny Punter.

Have we ever sold someone for an undisclosed fee before (Laursen?) and not revealed it at some point?

Caversham Green
17-07-2017, 12:36 PM
I hate when HSL is compared to FoH. Same kind of idea but hearts fans HAD to fork out, their club was in absolute dire straights and they were facing the very real prospect of their club dying, we aren't in such crisis.

I think the fundamental difference is that FoH have a hard target that they have to reach before they get any sort of fan ownership while HSL is an ongoing process with no absolute necessity to achieve any target.

Regarding the timing, the season has just started and the transfer window is still open - what better time get funds into the club? It might be the difference between signing Stokes or Church.

There are frequently calls on here for the board to show more 'ambition' even though they can only spend the money they have. Surely this request is just challenging the fans to put their money where their mouth is and show ambition themselves.

NAE NOOKIE
17-07-2017, 12:40 PM
Capital Green
We are very grateful for whatever contribution you are currently making to HSL and we can assure that all of your money is going to the Club and we are receiving shares in return. The Club are very grateful to receive our regular funding and I know for certain that Neil Lennon appreciates all of our efforts.

Jackie, Charlie, Gordon, Kenny and myself have all tried our best over the last few years to generate as much funds to get into our Club during this difficult period. We have now donated £455,000 and account for approximately 12%. You feel that we haven't done as well as we could have done and perhaps we haven't. We would of course welcome any additional expertise that can be offered by you or others.

The last three years have been a very difficult time for the Club and our best estimate would be that we will have seen about 1.5m of losses during this period so it follows that receipts from player sales are a very helpful source of funds. Clearly improved Season ticket sales are a help but the stark reality is that no Club in Scotland, other than Celtic is awash with money.

We are very pleased and grateful for the generous support from our 1600 members who nearly all also buy merchandise and Season tickets. What we really need is many more of our supporters to join if we want to make a meaningful difference. This is not about HSL or us as Directors it is about us collectively as fans. We need to decide what we want for our Club. Fans on little or no income of course cannot assist in this way but help by attending some or all games. Other fans however who are in a more comfortable position we would hope could manage that extra £10 per month.

FOH are contributing about £120,000 per month to the Club not because of a few large donators but because they have 8000 small donators.

We are not looking to raise an extra £100,000 just like that, but many more Members joining and committing to this amount allows Leeann and Neil to do more.

When it comes to timing, as others have pointed out there is never a good time to seek extra money as we are always competing with other initiatives. So please help if you can and support our initiative. If you can help in other ways please send a pm.


HSL

Every penny HSL raises from its 1,600 members goes into the club, it also increases HSL's shareholding in the club .... throw in the independent shareholders many of whom also contribute to HSL and how many shareholders in Hibs outside of STF and RP does that give you ... 3,000, 4000?

How many folk will be in control of 51% of Hibs and therefor in effect 'own' the club by the time that is achieved ... 4,000, 5000?

We already have folk complaining on this thread, many of whom already contribute to HSL, that HSL are looking to raise an additional £100,000 from them and hopefully new members. What's it going to be like when fans own 51% of the club and the club approaches these folk saying we don't need £100,000 but £1,000,000 ........... and lets face it, when we do own full control that day will inevitably come.

This is why in my opinion a controlling interest in this club owned by a relatively small number of ordinary and far from rich supporters is a recipe for if not disaster then at the very least stagnation ....... IMO what is required here is a big enough share to stop asset strippers and Romanov type nutters, but not enough that it stops rich individuals, or more unlikely companies, being able to say they own Hibernian FC and massaging their ego enough that they are encouraged to pour their personal wealth into the club.

From her utterances in the last 12 months I cant help thinking Budge down the road is of the same opinion and that's a club which already has a number of fans putting into it that we as things stand can only dream of reaching.

monarch
17-07-2017, 12:42 PM
Telling us where all the ST money has gone. Not telling us how much they got for Cummings.
Clubs don't reveal the true amounts of transfer fees. Amounts quoted are nearly always the estimate of "in the know" media types.
The amounts are business sensitive. For instance, just say, it was known that we received £5m for Cummings we'd be faced with ridiculous fees in trying to find a replacement.

21.05.2016
17-07-2017, 12:53 PM
To be honest I don't think there is anything wrong with the appeal in principal, but I did find the video a bit underwhelming. I completely understand that HSL don't want to spend money on PR firms etc, but jeez what a glum appeal...I wasn't sure if it was Charlie Reid or Ricky Fulton in "Last Call".

These sort of things need to be upbeat, hopeful and full of passion. Instead we get Charlie slumped in a chair looking like he's had a few too many masons pies recently talking about how "Quality players don't come cheap these days"...It needed footage of the cup final parade, stirring music and a message which said.."stick together and we can share more glory" "invest in HSL..invest in the future of Hibernian..invest in all our dreams"

I do still have a £10 a month DD running and it will continue, but I can't imagine that video will encourage many more fans to do the same...which is a pity.

Totally agree, far from inspiring. You need to get something that going to stir a bit of emotion, like the ST campaign. As you say, get footage of the cup final, the parade, the fans singing in the stands, Gray lifting the league winners trophy etc.

The ST campaign was great with the music, the final footage, the fan talking about the highs and lows of being a hibee. It put a lump in the throat and reaffirmed the love we have for the club that makes people more likely to get on board.

I know they don't want to waste limited funds on big PR campaigns or pay expensive advertising companies but surely someone involved has a bit of tech skills to put together a video or something. No offense to Charlie Reid but as you say, its all a wee bit glum and downbeat.

worcesterhibby
17-07-2017, 01:03 PM
To be honest I don't think there is anything wrong with the appeal in principal, but I did find the video a bit underwhelming. I completely understand that HSL don't want to spend money on PR firms etc, but jeez what a glum appeal...I wasn't sure if it was Charlie Reid or Ricky Fulton in "Last Call".

These sort of things need to be upbeat, hopeful and full of passion. Instead we get Charlie slumped in a chair looking like he's had a few too many masons pies recently talking about how "Quality players don't come cheap these days"...It needed footage of the cup final parade, stirring music and a message which said.."stick together and we can share more glory" "invest in HSL..invest in the future of Hibernian..invest in all our dreams"

I do still have a £10 a month DD running and it will continue, but I can't imagine that video will encourage many more fans to do the same...which is a pity.


In fairness and for the sake of balance, I do enjoy the content on the HSL Twitter Feed..which I think it very well managed.

Mikey
17-07-2017, 01:14 PM
It's quite straightforward really. If you can afford to put more money in, and you want to, then you do it. Otherwise you don't.

We all know the money is used to buy shares and the club uses it to fund the player pool.

Velma Dinkley
17-07-2017, 01:18 PM
Going by some comments on here and social media, and threats from people saying they are going to stop contributing to HSL simply because it's hoping to raise more funds for the club to spend on the squad, it's clear that some people still have no idea what HSL is trying to achieve. And some of these people even claim to already be contributing to HSL, which is baffling. There are even people on social media still banging on about ponzi schemes. It makes you wonder what goes on inside some people's heads.

BSEJVT
17-07-2017, 01:24 PM
I agree, I am in favour of HSL (I'm a member). I just don't think they are doing a great job on the marketing/engagement side of things.

As a membership group, surely the membership should be able to question how it is being run?

Have to say I agree with the bit in bold.

I am a member also who has continued to contribute after the minimum term but marketing / engagement is pitiful

Heisenberg
17-07-2017, 01:27 PM
Going by some comments on here and social media, and threats from people saying they are going to stop contributing to HSL simply because it's hoping to raise more funds for the club to spend on the squad, it's clear that some people still have no idea what HSL is trying to achieve. And some of these people even claim to already be contributing to HSL, which is baffling. There are even people on social media still banging on about ponzi schemes. It makes you wonder what goes on inside some people's heads.

To be fair the Ponzi scheme comments are usually only chucked about by Bradley Welsh and his wee band of followers. They really don't understand it.

Ozyhibby
17-07-2017, 01:30 PM
To be fair the Ponzi scheme comments are usually only chucked about by Bradley Welsh and his wee band of followers. They really don't understand it.

Or what an actual Ponzi scheme is. [emoji23]


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Mikey
17-07-2017, 01:31 PM
Founding directors of HSL only have 6 months left before they resign so there will be an opportunity for us members to pick this up and hopefully move it forward.



You'd have to be absolutely bonkers to put yourself forward for that. It's not just another thankless task, you're actively targeted by a section of the support.

Bostonhibby
17-07-2017, 01:31 PM
To be fair the Ponzi scheme comments are usually only chucked about by Bradley Welsh and his wee band of followers. They really don't understand it.And God knows they had ponzi explained often enough the first time around.



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Pretty Boy
17-07-2017, 01:33 PM
Going by some comments on here and social media, and threats from people saying they are going to stop contributing to HSL simply because it's hoping to raise more funds for the club to spend on the squad, it's clear that some people still have no idea what HSL is trying to achieve. And some of these people even claim to already be contributing to HSL, which is baffling. There are even people on social media still banging on about ponzi schemes. It makes you wonder what goes on inside some people's heads.

There are people who are dead against HSL, have been from the start and continue to be. They believe STF should hand the club back to the community and his insistence on a repayment of a soft loan to clear external debt is just greed. That's their opinion and they are entitled to it. There's clearly a thought process behind it whether I agree with them or otherwise.

Equally there are people committed to HSL, who pay their DD every month and want to see it succeed.

The issue HSL have, in my opinion, is the apathy among a majority of the support towards the whole idea. It seems a hell of a lot of people just aren't all that bothered one way or another. It is a hard sell as it's ultimately asking for more money on top of STs, strips, away games etc etc. For me given the failure to get a new Shareholders Association off the ground HSL has an increasingly important role to get to the percentage of shares required to get a member on the board. That gives a block of fans a guaranteed voice within the board room that has legal protection. Maybe that's the angle to come at it from?

Kojock
17-07-2017, 01:33 PM
Maybe him and his bro could do a gig at ER with all the proceeds going to HSL. Then release an updated version of Glory Glory again all proceeds going to HSL

Speedway
17-07-2017, 01:33 PM
Capital Green
We are very grateful for whatever contribution you are currently making to HSL and we can assure that all of your money is going to the Club and we are receiving shares in return. The Club are very grateful to receive our regular funding and I know for certain that Neil Lennon appreciates all of our efforts.

Jackie, Charlie, Gordon, Kenny and myself have all tried our best over the last few years to generate as much funds to get into our Club during this difficult period. We have now donated £455,000 and account for approximately 12%. You feel that we haven't done as well as we could have done and perhaps we haven't. We would of course welcome any additional expertise that can be offered by you or others.

The last three years have been a very difficult time for the Club and our best estimate would be that we will have seen about 1.5m of losses during this period so it follows that receipts from player sales are a very helpful source of funds. Clearly improved Season ticket sales are a help but the stark reality is that no Club in Scotland, other than Celtic is awash with money.

We are very pleased and grateful for the generous support from our 1600 members who nearly all also buy merchandise and Season tickets. What we really need is many more of our supporters to join if we want to make a meaningful difference. This is not about HSL or us as Directors it is about us collectively as fans. We need to decide what we want for our Club. Fans on little or no income of course cannot assist in this way but help by attending some or all games. Other fans however who are in a more comfortable position we would hope could manage that extra £10 per month.

FOH are contributing about £120,000 per month to the Club not because of a few large donators but because they have 8000 small donators.

We are not looking to raise an extra £100,000 just like that, but many more Members joining and committing to this amount allows Leeann and Neil to do more.

When it comes to timing, as others have pointed out there is never a good time to seek extra money as we are always competing with other initiatives. So please help if you can and support our initiative. If you can help in other ways please send a pm.


HSL

Are we able to say how much HSL is putting into the club per month or do I simply divide the £455,000 by 12 to get that figure?

Apologies if I've missed it elsewhere.

Speedway
17-07-2017, 01:35 PM
There are people who are dead against HSL, have been from the start and continue to be. They believe STF should hand the club back to the community and his insistence on a repayment of a soft loan to clear external debt is just greed. That's their opinion and they are entitled to it. There's clearly a thought process behind it whether I agree with them or otherwise.

Equally there are people committed to HSL, who pay their DD every month and want to see it succeed.

The issue HSL have, in my opinion, is the apathy among a majority of the support towards the whole idea. It seems a hell of a lot of people just aren't all that bothered one way or another. It is a hard sell as it's ultimately asking for more money on top of STs, strips, away games etc etc. For me given the failure to get a new Shareholders Association off the ground HSL has an increasingly important role to get to the percentage of shares required to get a member on the board. That gives a block of fans a guaranteed voice within the board room that has legal protection. Maybe that's the angle to come at it from?

Its a shame we can't raise the price of an ST by xyz and market the angle that every ST bought comes with a share certificate in the club.

Ozyhibby
17-07-2017, 01:42 PM
Are we able to say how much HSL is putting into the club per month or do I simply divide the £455,000 by 12 to get that figure?

Apologies if I've missed it elsewhere.

The £445k is a total since it began so dividing by 12 would not be accurate. Last I heard it was about £20k per month.


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Speedway
17-07-2017, 01:45 PM
The £445k is a total since it began so dividing by 12 would not be accurate. Last I heard it was about £20k per month.


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Cheers Ozy.

And Houndation of Fearts are at £120k per month?

Pretty Boy
17-07-2017, 01:51 PM
Maybe him and his bro could do a gig at ER with all the proceeds going to HSL. Then release an updated version of Glory Glory again all proceeds going to HSL

I don't think both are on the same page re HSL.

Ozyhibby
17-07-2017, 01:53 PM
Cheers Ozy.

And Houndation of Fearts are at £120k per month?

I think so yes.


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Speedway
17-07-2017, 02:00 PM
I think so yes.


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We really DO need to stop the self congrats on 12k STs then if we want to ram this Big Team pish down their throats.

That's a HUGE advantage.

green day
17-07-2017, 02:04 PM
The £445k is a total since it began so dividing by 12 would not be accurate. Last I heard it was about £20k per month

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Such a pity that such a vocal Hibs fan as Brad Welsh was taken in by the idiot Simon Pia with his tinfoil hat theories about how the Billionaire Tom Farmer dreamt up this scheme for a wee bit of pocket change.

If these guys were not so high profile in social media we might have had twice as many in HSL (I am in, but few of my mates are, they were "unsure due to the noise") and perhaps had £40k per month going into the player budget.

I wonder if Pia sits and whinges about Brian Grahams ability and doesnt join the dots back to his campaign against HSL?

I have not bothered watching the vid as I already contribute, but anyone moaning should perhaps reflect on what £100k would do for the squad. If you still cant afford £10 per month, then fair dos but if you can and still dont shell out, please dont moan about Hibs inability to attract player XY or Z and wonder why Hearts or the Sheep CAN.

Ozyhibby
17-07-2017, 02:08 PM
We really DO need to stop the self congrats on 12k STs then if we want to ram this Big Team pish down their throats.

That's a HUGE advantage.

It's massive. £100k a month difference buys you a lot of footballer at our level.


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Borderhibbie76
17-07-2017, 02:11 PM
I back the club by contributing to HSL. My season ticket buys me cheaper access to home games.

It seems we want a super-dooper replacement for JC but we don't want to stump up any cash to contribute.Think the point is the fans have stumped up big time mate...12k st holders and many members of HSL too - they'd have been better holding off till summer window closes when hopefully we've made several more signings before asking fans for yet more money

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Ozyhibby
17-07-2017, 02:12 PM
Think the point is the fans have stumped up big time mate...12k st holders and many members of HSL too - they'd have been better holding off till summer window closes when hopefully we've made several more signings before asking fans for yet more money

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I think they are trying to raise money for the club to spend in this window though.


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CapitalGreen
17-07-2017, 02:22 PM
I have not bothered watching the vid as I already contribute, but anyone moaning should perhaps reflect on what £100k would do for the squad. If you still cant afford £10 per month, then fair dos but if you can and still dont shell out, please dont moan about Hibs inability to attract player XY or Z and wonder why Hearts or the Sheep CAN.

I think yourself and others are missing the point people are making on this thread. I haven't seen many people on this thread against HSL and what they are trying to achieve but a number of posters (including myself) have been critical of their methods in trying to achieve these aims.

I know hindsight is 20/20 but I believe an example of a better campaign would have been following our Cup win last year to seek an increase of £10k per month. This could have been achieved by attracting new members at the peak of our feel good factor and encouraging new members to increase their donations. Instead we have heard little from HSL in the last year and now they are suddenly looking for £100k. Like our season ticket campaigns in the last 2 years, targets should be incremental and achievable.

I hate to harp back to FoH again but they recently had a campaign where they encouraged all members to increase their monthly donation by at least £1, obviously some wont but some will have increased by more.
8000 x £1 X 12 = £96,000

Borderhibbie76
17-07-2017, 02:28 PM
I think they are trying to raise money for the club to spend in this window though.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIf that's the case then fair do's mate...i kinda hoped this window had been budgeted for by the club already...perhaps not. Anyway good or bad timing, fancy pr or non fancy pr - I pay my monthly DD and wouldn't stop regardless of opinions on all of the above

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Iggy Pope
17-07-2017, 02:31 PM
Capital Green
We are very grateful for whatever contribution you are currently making to HSL and we can assure that all of your money is going to the Club and we are receiving shares in return. The Club are very grateful to receive our regular funding and I know for certain that Neil Lennon appreciates all of our efforts.

Jackie, Charlie, Gordon, Kenny and myself have all tried our best over the last few years to generate as much funds to get into our Club during this difficult period. We have now donated £455,000 and account for approximately 12%. You feel that we haven't done as well as we could have done and perhaps we haven't. We would of course welcome any additional expertise that can be offered by you or others.

The last three years have been a very difficult time for the Club and our best estimate would be that we will have seen about 1.5m of losses during this period so it follows that receipts from player sales are a very helpful source of funds. Clearly improved Season ticket sales are a help but the stark reality is that no Club in Scotland, other than Celtic is awash with money.

We are very pleased and grateful for the generous support from our 1600 members who nearly all also buy merchandise and Season tickets. What we really need is many more of our supporters to join if we want to make a meaningful difference. This is not about HSL or us as Directors it is about us collectively as fans. We need to decide what we want for our Club. Fans on little or no income of course cannot assist in this way but help by attending some or all games. Other fans however who are in a more comfortable position we would hope could manage that extra £10 per month.

FOH are contributing about £120,000 per month to the Club not because of a few large donators but because they have 8000 small donators.

We are not looking to raise an extra £100,000 just like that, but many more Members joining and committing to this amount allows Leeann and Neil to do more.

When it comes to timing, as others have pointed out there is never a good time to seek extra money as we are always competing with other initiatives. So please help if you can and support our initiative. If you can help in other ways please send a pm.


HSL

Hi HSL

Directly at you.

I'm wondering if you are still getting my monthly contributions in perpetuity.
I haven't heard a squeak from the organisation since I moaned my tits off at anyone who would listen after the Hearts tickets debacle back in February (HSL being cited at the time as a reason in part for the 'loyalty points' scheme being trashed). We spoke and I was promised better communication.
I kept my subs going at the time when I was thinking better of it and still do. But not hearing anything has led me to question why I'm still contributing far less encouraging anyone else to do so.
I'd no idea what you did with the money then and I still don't.

Mikey
17-07-2017, 02:35 PM
Hi HSL

Directly at you.

I'm quite happy for you to keep taking my monthly DD and don't need you licking my arse every few months.

CapitalGreen
17-07-2017, 02:38 PM
Hi HSL

Directly at you.

I'm quite happy for you to keep taking my monthly DD and don't need you licking my arse every few months.

Mocking members and contributors to HSL does little to encourage others to sign up I'd imagine.

Since90+2
17-07-2017, 02:39 PM
I still pay in every month and to be honest it would make no difference to me whether they emailed me everyday with an update or not at all I would still keep paying as I know it benefits the club.

Stevie Reid
17-07-2017, 02:39 PM
I've been a season ticket holder for decades, and have been making a monthly contribution to HSL since not long after it started. I am perfectly content that my money is being used for the stated purpose.

I may increase my DD at some point, but not at the moment. Can't really get my head round why so many people have an issue with them asking for more.

Iggy Pope
17-07-2017, 02:40 PM
Hi HSL

Directly at you.

I'm quite happy for you to keep taking my monthly DD and don't need you licking my arse every few months.

Care to expand?

Ozyhibby
17-07-2017, 02:44 PM
Mocking members and contributors to HSL does little to encourage others to sign up I'd imagine.

Tbf I can see both sides. HSL probably do need a bit of help with the marketing side of things. It's just a case of finding people willing to help them.
It's possible that maybe they need to consider hiring a PR company to drive the membership numbers higher with the company earning their fees based on the increase in membership and extra funds going towards the club.


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Iggy Pope
17-07-2017, 02:45 PM
I still pay in every month and to be honest it would make no difference to me whether they emailed me everyday with an update or not at all I would still keep paying as I know it benefits the club.


I've been a season ticket holder for decades, and have been making a monthly contribution to HSL since not long after it started. I am perfectly content that my money is being used for the stated purpose.

I may increase my DD at some point, but not at the moment. Can't really get my head round why so many people have an issue with them asking for more.

All I'm asking for is the clarity I was promised months ago.
Not having my arse licked.
I'd like to know how the money was being used, how much of it is getting generated and how often they hand it over for the club to 'use'.

Not unreasonable.

One more crack like Mikey's though and Hibs.net might be looking for another tenner a year.....was he the boy who 'put relegation to bed' all those years back?

Ozyhibby
17-07-2017, 02:45 PM
Hi HSL

Directly at you.

I'm wondering if you are still getting my monthly contributions in perpetuity.
I haven't heard a squeak from the organisation since I moaned my tits off at anyone who would listen after the Hearts tickets debacle back in February (HSL being cited at the time as a reason in part for the 'loyalty points' scheme being trashed). We spoke and I was promised better communication.
I kept my subs going at the time when I was thinking better of it and still do. But not hearing anything has led me to question why I'm still contributing far less encouraging anyone else to do so.
I'd no idea what you did with the money then and I still don't.

The money gets used to buy shares in the club. That's it.
The club then use it to pay players, run the club etc.


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Iggy Pope
17-07-2017, 02:47 PM
The money gets used to buy shares in the club. That's it.
The club then use it to pay players, run the club etc.


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Thanks
Hopefully HSL will be back at me soon. I've not had any notification, whatsoever, on how many shares they have purchased or when.
Who are you and what role in the organisation do you play?

SirDavidsNapper
17-07-2017, 02:49 PM
What they do with the money doesn't bother me as long as it benefits Hibs and it will. I'm not an uber fan by any stretch of the imagination and go to games when it suits me but I do pay a small amount every month into HSL. I realise some supporters contribute a lot and feel a bit taken advantage of but at the end of the day HSL and us all want the best for the club

Ozyhibby
17-07-2017, 02:50 PM
Thanks
Hopefully HSL will be back at me soon. I've not had any notification, whatsoever, on how many shares they have purchased or when.
Who are you and what role in the organisation do you play?

I have no role in HSL. I've helped hand out leaflets once and been to a couple of ideas meetings but that's it. I fully support what they are trying to do though.
I'm Ozyhibby. [emoji6]


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Iggy Pope
17-07-2017, 02:50 PM
I have no role in HSL. I've helped hand out leaflets once and been to a couple of ideas meetings but that's it. I fully support what they are trying to do though.
I'm Ozyhibby. [emoji6]


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I thought that. Thanks.

Bishop Hibee
17-07-2017, 02:57 PM
Millionaires asking fans to put their hands in their pocket yet again. Why don't the Proclaimers put on a concert at Easter Road to raise cash ?

Yup. 15,000 tickets, £25 a pop, £375,000 before expenses. Everyone's happy😉

brog
17-07-2017, 03:02 PM
Thanks
Hopefully HSL will be back at me soon. I've not had any notification, whatsoever, on how many shares they have purchased or when.
Who are you and what role in the organisation do you play?

Did you miss this part of the statement? It tells you HSL have purchased 12% of Hibs issued share capital. Now I don't have the a/c's in front of me but if you go online you can easily see them & work out exactly how many shares that is if the 12% info isn't enough.


ackie, Charlie, Gordon, Kenny and myself have all tried our best over the last few years to generate as much funds to get into our Club during this difficult period. We have now donated £455,000 and account for approximately 12%.

Ozyhibby
17-07-2017, 03:04 PM
Yup. 15,000 tickets, £25 a pop, £375,000 before expenses. Everyone's happy[emoji6]

Expenses on a stadium gig would probably take about £350k of that. My mate works in that industry and he once explained to me that it's very hard to make a profit on those gigs. You have to sell it out at pretty high ticket prices to make it worthwhile.


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Dashing Bob S
17-07-2017, 03:06 PM
So the HSL have just launched their new "Target £100,000" campaign (see video below). Sparked quite a lot of debate on social media I see, a lot of people unhappy about them asking the fans to fork out when we have just sold our best player for £1m (at least), high sales of the new kits and approaching record ST sales.

Thoughts?


https://vimeo.com/225654050

Jamboesque piss-taking in my view. Nobody is forcing anybody to contribute, but another example of a club cynically cashing in on the blind loyalty of it's supporters. Yes, I'll buy a season ticket, no, this sort of scam is not for me. But good luck to those who feel otherwise.

Iggy Pope
17-07-2017, 03:09 PM
Did you miss this part of the statement? It tells you HSL have purchased 12% of Hibs issued share capital. Now I don't have the a/c's in front of me but if you go online you can easily see them & work out exactly how many shares that is if the 12% info isn't enough.


ackie, Charlie, Gordon, Kenny and myself have all tried our best over the last few years to generate as much funds to get into our Club during this difficult period. We have now donated £455,000 and account for approximately 12%.

Its not enough info, no. I've been contributing since day 1 (along with many others).
I have to search online for a statement of accounts?
Would a newsletter emailed to its contributors every three months or so really be such a problem?
I don't even get an acknowledgement of my contribution each month. Do you?

I'm sure the HSL man will be along soon with a response.

green day
17-07-2017, 03:11 PM
Jamboesque piss-taking in my view. Nobody is forcing anybody to contribute, but another example of a club cynically cashing in on the blind loyalty of it's supporters. Yes, I'll buy a season ticket, no, this sort of scam is not for me. But good luck to those who feel otherwise.

Scam suggests that HSL are defrauding people.

Perhaps you want to clarify?

green day
17-07-2017, 03:13 PM
I think yourself and others are missing the point people are making on this thread. I haven't seen many people on this thread against HSL and what they are trying to achieve but a number of posters (including myself) have been critical of their methods in trying to achieve these aims.

I know hindsight is 20/20 but I believe an example of a better campaign would have been following our Cup win last year to seek an increase of £10k per month. This could have been achieved by attracting new members at the peak of our feel good factor and encouraging new members to increase their donations. Instead we have heard little from HSL in the last year and now they are suddenly looking for £100k. Like our season ticket campaigns in the last 2 years, targets should be incremental and achievable.

I hate to harp back to FoH again but they recently had a campaign where they encouraged all members to increase their monthly donation by at least £1, obviously some wont but some will have increased by more.
8000 x £1 X 12 = £96,000


Its great that you have loads of ideas - I think that HSL would appreciate your input (Im not taking the piss by the way :greengrin) and anything you could do to up the profile would be great.

Arch Stanton
17-07-2017, 03:23 PM
I have no idea if the Proclaimers do charity gigs but, if they do, it should most certainly not be for Hibs - we are NOT a charity case and it makes my skin crawl to see that suggested.

While I'm at it, I also have no time for people who use lacklustre HSL performance for not backing the club. If you don't want to support the club then fine but don't trumpet feeble excuses on social media.

Dashing Bob S
17-07-2017, 03:31 PM
Scam suggests that HSL are defrauding people.

Perhaps you want to clarify?

I wouldn't say defrauding in a legal sense. But most clubs as businesses exploit the unique loyalty supporters have to them. Most people are cool with this, at least to a degree, they will buy merchandise, special packages etc quite happily. Others, like myself, are uneasy about schemes like this, and feel that it takes advantage of a unique relationship and asks too much of people. I'm sure there are many in adverse financial circumstances, who have allowed emotion to circumvent common sense and overextended themselves. Of course, a business cannot cannot be held responsible for poor decision making by it's customers, but given the much-vaunted 'community' nature of the club and the uncertain times we live in, I personally feel that such schemes are a bridge too far.

Just my personal opinion, don't know how widely shared it is, but here I am expressing it.

brog
17-07-2017, 03:34 PM
Its not enough info, no. I've been contributing since day 1 (along with many others).
I have to search online for a statement of accounts?
Would a newsletter emailed to its contributors every three months or so really be such a problem?
I don't even get an acknowledgement of my contribution each month. Do you?

I'm sure the HSL man will be along soon with a response.

I wasn't defending HSL, I was merely pointing out that the answer to one of your questions ( ie how many shares have been purchased ) was contained ( in % terms ) on this page. I'm already a long standing shareholder in Hibs but I made a one off payment to join HSL. I keep meaning to sign my son up to HSL & this thread has reminded me of it. I agree it appears HSL could be doing more, along the lines you suggest, but I don't know why people are offended by this campaign. It's an attempt to get more people into HSL, what can be wrong with that in principle?

Velma Dinkley
17-07-2017, 03:35 PM
I wouldn't say defrauding in a legal sense. But most clubs as businesses exploit the unique loyalty supporters have to them. Most people are cool with this, at least to a degree, they will buy merchandise, special packages etc quite happily. Others, like myself, are uneasy about schemes like this, and feel that it takes advantage of a unique relationship and asks too much of people. I'm sure there are many in adverse financial circumstances, who have allowed emotion to circumvent common sense and overextended themselves. Of course, a business cannot cannot be held responsible for poor decision making by it's customers, but given the much-vaunted 'community' nature of the club and the uncertain times we live in, I personally feel that such schemes are a bridge too far.

Just my personal opinion, don't know how widely shared it is, but here I am expressing it.

This is HSL ie. the fans buying shares in the club to gain ownership of it. This has nothing to do with the club exploiting anyone, and nobody is being defrauded in any kind of sense. Although some people are being libeled :wink:

Iggy Pope
17-07-2017, 03:36 PM
I have no idea if the Proclaimers do charity gigs but, if they do, it should most certainly not be for Hibs - we are NOT a charity case and it makes my skin crawl to see that suggested.

While I'm at it, I also have no time for people who use lacklustre HSL performance for not backing the club. If you don't want to support the club then fine but don't trumpet feeble excuses on social media.

I would struggle to back the club any more than I already do. Season Ticket. Shareholder. I've contributed to KFK. There isn't an initiative I don't back. I contribute to HSL. The feedback from HSL is certainly lacklustre. I get more from Leeann than I do from HSL........

Iggy Pope
17-07-2017, 03:40 PM
I wasn't defending HSL, I was merely pointing out that the answer to one of your questions ( ie how many shares have been purchased ) was contained ( in % terms ) on this page. I'm already a long standing shareholder in Hibs but I made a one off payment to join HSL. I keep meaning to sign my son up to HSL & this thread has reminded me of it. I agree it appears HSL could be doing more, along the lines you suggest, but I don't know why people are offended by this campaign. It's an attempt to get more people into HSL, what can be wrong with that in principle?

I have to say here I AM NOT OFFENDED BY THIS CAMPAIGN.
I seen the thread on here and hoped that the HSL fellah who is in on the thread might respond.

I knew I would get a whole lot of smart stuff from elsewhere (not aimed at you mind so don't take offence).

I just want a bit more chat from them. And I'm not on Twitter.

Velma Dinkley
17-07-2017, 03:41 PM
I would struggle to back the club any more than I already do. Season Ticket. Shareholder. I've contributed to KFK. There isn't an initiative I don't back. I contribute to HSL. The feedback from HSL is certainly lacklustre. I get more from Leeann than I do from HSL........

To be fair, Leeann is being paid to do her job full time.

Ozyhibby
17-07-2017, 03:46 PM
To be fair, Leeann is being paid to do her job full time.

And maybe HSL need that to take it up a level.
There is £100k a month difference between what HSL raise and what FoH raise. That shows the potential for the scheme.


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Bishop Hibee
17-07-2017, 03:50 PM
Expenses on a stadium gig would probably take about £350k of that. My mate works in that industry and he once explained to me that it's very hard to make a profit on those gigs. You have to sell it out at pretty high ticket prices to make it worthwhile.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Given Hibs would give use of the stadium for free and The Proclaimers wouldn't take a cut I find those figures unlikely although I've been wrong before! Also I'm quoting ticket prices only. Food and merchandise could take the profit higher. I've a mate who runs Regular Music who usually promote The Proclaimers. I should get in touch to get the ball rolling 🇳🇬🎤

ancient hibee
17-07-2017, 03:50 PM
I wouldn't say defrauding in a legal sense. But most clubs as businesses exploit the unique loyalty supporters have to them. Most people are cool with this, at least to a degree, they will buy merchandise, special packages etc quite happily. Others, like myself, are uneasy about schemes like this, and feel that it takes advantage of a unique relationship and asks too much of people. I'm sure there are many in adverse financial circumstances, who have allowed emotion to circumvent common sense and overextended themselves. Of course, a business cannot cannot be held responsible for poor decision making by it's customers, but given the much-vaunted 'community' nature of the club and the uncertain times we live in, I personally feel that such schemes are a bridge too far.

Just my personal opinion, don't know how widely shared it is, but here I am expressing it.
I'm a bit lost at your attitude.Firstly it!s not the club it's HSL which is a company set up so that thos fans whocan't afford to buy shares themselves in a lump make a monthly contribution and HSL then buy shares every so often.Hibs uses the money it gets from HSL in the team budget.If you don' believe that fans should own shares then you don't contribute.So secondly I don't see why you use this attempt to drum up more contributions as something to beat the club over the head about.

Ozyhibby
17-07-2017, 04:00 PM
I'm a bit lost at your attitude.Firstly it!s not the club it's HSL which is a company set up so that thos fans whocan't afford to buy shares themselves in a lump make a monthly contribution and HSL then buy shares every so often.Hibs uses the money it gets from HSL in the team budget.If you don' believe that fans should own shares then you don't contribute.So secondly I don't see why you use this attempt to drum up more contributions as something to beat the club over the head about.

Yip, HSL is not the club. They are totally separate and hopefully after the elections will have less people on both boards.


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Islington Hibs
17-07-2017, 04:03 PM
Millionaires asking fans to put their hands in their pocket yet again. Why don't the Proclaimers put on a concert at Easter Road to raise cash ?


That is very unfair. They have done a massive amount for this club both culturally and economically. It goes without saying Sunshine on Leith has given Hibs a cultural attraction far and wide and I know for a fact, when they were near the start of their careers they put up a substantial sum to buy shares to help Hibs during the Mercer takeover. They lost the lot of those shares and they knew they would when they did it.

cabbageandribs1875
17-07-2017, 04:06 PM
well, seeing as i'l be picking and choosing quite a few games this season(silly o'clock KO's can gtf) i'm going to increase my monthly payments to HSL...so there :agree:

Arch Stanton
17-07-2017, 04:06 PM
I would struggle to back the club any more than I already do. Season Ticket. Shareholder. I've contributed to KFK. There isn't an initiative I don't back. I contribute to HSL. The feedback from HSL is certainly lacklustre. I get more from Leeann than I do from HSL........

Fair enough, but given that HSL are not showing appreciation, let me say that in my view you are doing a great job - keep it up!

It's a shame that Leeann doesn't 'lead' this effort as it would make the whole thing a great deal more satisfying - I suspect it is some kind of organisational thing that she doesn't.

ancient hibee
17-07-2017, 04:10 PM
If you look back a couple of posts you'll see a poster who wants less club people involved withHSL.You want more involvement from the club.It's a minefield.

Caversham Green
17-07-2017, 04:47 PM
I wouldn't say defrauding in a legal sense. But most clubs as businesses exploit the unique loyalty supporters have to them. Most people are cool with this, at least to a degree, they will buy merchandise, special packages etc quite happily. Others, like myself, are uneasy about schemes like this, and feel that it takes advantage of a unique relationship and asks too much of people. I'm sure there are many in adverse financial circumstances, who have allowed emotion to circumvent common sense and overextended themselves. Of course, a business cannot cannot be held responsible for poor decision making by it's customers, but given the much-vaunted 'community' nature of the club and the uncertain times we live in, I personally feel that such schemes are a bridge too far.

Just my personal opinion, don't know how widely shared it is, but here I am expressing it.

I think you're being very unfair here. Although they are of necessity run as businesses, football clubs in Scotland with one (arguably two) current exceptions exist purely to provide their fans with the best possible team to support. To do that they need to get as much money in as they can so in the case of Hibs and some other clubs they are looking to the the fans for voluntary contributions. The clubs exist only for the fans so it's not unreasonable for the fans to be expected to contribute to the improvement of the clubs. People need to decide for themselves how far is too far - neither the club nor HSL are in a position to decide for them.

Arch Stanton
17-07-2017, 04:49 PM
If you look back a couple of posts you'll see a poster who wants less club people involved withHSL.You want more involvement from the club.It's a minefield.

Minefield indeed.

If we could only have great people running the club and other great people running HSL it would be ideal - not to be apparently.

Ah well - I can just comfort myself knowing I have contributed to SJM, Commons (as was), Ambrose, Whittaker and (hopefully) a spectactularly free scoring forward to replace JC.

Super_JMcGinn
17-07-2017, 04:53 PM
Hi HSL

Directly at you.

I'm wondering if you are still getting my monthly contributions in perpetuity.
I haven't heard a squeak from the organisation since I moaned my tits off at anyone who would listen after the Hearts tickets debacle back in February (HSL being cited at the time as a reason in part for the 'loyalty points' scheme being trashed). We spoke and I was promised better communication.
I kept my subs going at the time when I was thinking better of it and still do. But not hearing anything has led me to question why I'm still contributing far less encouraging anyone else to do so.
I'd no idea what you did with the money then and I still don't.


Hey Iggy, I give to HSL also and never hear a squeak from them either but don't feel the need to bitch about it on here :aok:

There's a time and a place as Mike and the Mechanics will tell you.

Super_JMcGinn
17-07-2017, 04:58 PM
As a member of HSL, I've been increasingly disappointed with them recently. Their social media/marketing output is pitiful, most of it cringe worthy hashtags and graphics more suited to a hibs news/transfers type account.

We hear very little for months except claiming to be responsible for signings then out of the blue they are asking for £100k for vague purposes.

There comes a time when you have to have a little trust.

CropleyWasGod
17-07-2017, 05:12 PM
Fair enough, but given that HSL are not showing appreciation, let me say that in my view you are doing a great job - keep it up!

It's a shame that Leeann doesn't 'lead' this effort as it would make the whole thing a great deal more satisfying - I suspect it is some kind of organisational thing that she doesn't.
She is on the Board of HSL, but I'd prefer that she wasn't. HSL is designed to be a fans-driven initiative, and having LD involved sets her up for accusations of conflict of interest, as well as the usual crap about Ponzi schemes.

As Ozy mentioned, there's elections coming up. She may decide to stand down herself. In any event, we have the opportunity to remove her....in the nicest possible way.

As regards the overall workings of HSL, they are in a difficult position. At their AGM, they laid great emphasis on their intention to keep costs as low as possible, in order to maximise contributions to the club. That means that PR can't be as professional as they.... or some of us...might like. When someone gets ill in a volunteer-led organisation...as has happened with HSL.... the work of that organisation has to be adversely affected.

I'm not sure that spending money on its marketing would have the effect we all want. But I'm not a marketer....and I'm sure that HSL would appreciate any help on that score.

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Super_JMcGinn
17-07-2017, 05:28 PM
She is on the Board of HSL, but I'd prefer that she wasn't. HSL is designed to be a fans-driven initiative, and having LD involved sets her up for accusations of conflict of interest, as well as the usual crap about Ponzi schemes.

As Ozy mentioned, there's elections coming up. She may decide to stand down herself. In any event, we have the opportunity to remove her....in the nicest possible way.

As regards the overall workings of HSL, they are in a difficult position. At their AGM, they laid great emphasis on their intention to keep costs as low as possible, in order to maximise contributions to the club. That means that PR can't be as professional as they.... or some of us...might like. When someone gets ill in a volunteer-led organisation...as has happened with HSL.... the work of that organisation has to be adversely affected.

I'm not sure that spending money on its marketing would have the effect we all want. But I'm not a marketer....and I'm sure that HSL would appreciate any help on that score.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

Other than winning the Scottish cup Leann is probably the best thing that has happened to our club in a long long time.

CropleyWasGod
17-07-2017, 05:42 PM
Other than winning the Scottish cup Leann is probably the best thing that has happened to our club in a long long time.
Agreed.

But this is about HSL, and how it best serves the supporter's interests.

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Malthibby
17-07-2017, 05:55 PM
HSL is a fans led method of donating to the club & if you can afford it I would recommend it to anyone in the position to do so.
That's what it says on the tin & it doesn't pretend to be anything else.
Meybes an e-mail every couple of months would be nice but it's no deal breaker; what it is is good news and I don't
really get the negatives.
GG

matty_f
17-07-2017, 05:57 PM
I wouldn't say defrauding in a legal sense. But most clubs as businesses exploit the unique loyalty supporters have to them. Most people are cool with this, at least to a degree, they will buy merchandise, special packages etc quite happily. Others, like myself, are uneasy about schemes like this, and feel that it takes advantage of a unique relationship and asks too much of people. I'm sure there are many in adverse financial circumstances, who have allowed emotion to circumvent common sense and overextended themselves. Of course, a business cannot cannot be held responsible for poor decision making by it's customers, but given the much-vaunted 'community' nature of the club and the uncertain times we live in, I personally feel that such schemes are a bridge too far.

Just my personal opinion, don't know how widely shared it is, but here I am expressing it.

Generally really like your posts, DBS but this (albeit just your opinion) is way off the mark (in my opinion).

It's not as if people are giving their money away for nothing. We get a better, healthier club, we get to dilute STF's ownership with fan ownership.

It's transparent (HSL takes money, buys shares) nobody is scoring from it other than the fans and the team. It's as far removed from a scam as you can get.

Arch Stanton
17-07-2017, 07:00 PM
She is on the Board of HSL, but I'd prefer that she wasn't. HSL is designed to be a fans-driven initiative, and having LD involved sets her up for accusations of conflict of interest, as well as the usual crap about Ponzi schemes.

As Ozy mentioned, there's elections coming up. She may decide to stand down herself. In any event, we have the opportunity to remove her....in the nicest possible way.

As regards the overall workings of HSL, they are in a difficult position. At their AGM, they laid great emphasis on their intention to keep costs as low as possible, in order to maximise contributions to the club. That means that PR can't be as professional as they.... or some of us...might like. When someone gets ill in a volunteer-led organisation...as has happened with HSL.... the work of that organisation has to be adversely affected.

I'm not sure that spending money on its marketing would have the effect we all want. But I'm not a marketer....and I'm sure that HSL would appreciate any help on that score.


Of course - my initial reaction to that was "how hard can that be?" but then I thought "shut up, idiot". But thenagain, isn't this calling out for help from people like me (i.e. retired and spending too much time on hibs.net).

While I could never be a fans rep (would never get elected anyway) it wouldn't take masses of effort by a few volunteers to get individual statements out to the 1600 members - how much they have contributed and whether certificates have been issued (and what to do if they haven't). Sounds like the kind of thing you could do with an Excel macro.

Not that I could offer much drive since I have M.E. but helping out with this kind of admin shouldn't take that much out of me. Maybe there are others who think the same.

Super_JMcGinn
17-07-2017, 07:02 PM
Generally really like your posts, DBS but this (albeit just your opinion) is way off the mark (in my opinion).

It's not as if people are giving their money away for nothing. We get a better, healthier club, we get to dilute STF's ownership with fan ownership.

It's transparent (HSL takes money, buys shares) nobody is scoring from it other than the fans and the team. It's as far removed from a scam as you can get.

Sums it up perfectly, Matty. You either contribute or you don't, no arm twisting and it all goes towards fans shares. We all got certificates as a way of a thank you from HSL which is more than adequate as far as I'm concerned.

Bostonhibby
17-07-2017, 07:10 PM
Agreed.

But this is about HSL, and how it best serves the supporter's interests.

Sent from my SM-A510F using TapatalkTrust, clear articles of association and being an efficient low cost means of converting as much of my cash as possible into shares thence into cash for the team does it for me.

I know what they're about. If anything I'd like to see another general sale of the shares to buy outside HSL. Time could be right for some?

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Iggy Pope
17-07-2017, 07:15 PM
Hey Iggy, I give to HSL also and never hear a squeak from them either but don't feel the need to bitch about it on here :aok:

There's a time and a place as Mike and the Mechanics will tell you.

HSL are posting on the thread my man and I replied to them. Nothing more.

Iggy Pope
17-07-2017, 07:20 PM
Fair enough, but given that HSL are not showing appreciation, let me say that in my view you are doing a great job - keep it up!

It's a shame that Leeann doesn't 'lead' this effort as it would make the whole thing a great deal more satisfying - I suspect it is some kind of organisational thing that she doesn't.

It's a tangent but Leeann abolished the Loyalty scheme on the back of us HSL punters receiving 100 bonus points for nothing really and it created bad feeling amongst non-HSL punters and some bad reaction towards ticket office staff. All inexcusable.
I never asked for the bonus - I would like my loyalty points back! Maybe having a foot in both camps isn't so great, using that one as a wee example.

Iggy Pope
17-07-2017, 07:32 PM
To be fair, Leeann is being paid to do her job full time.

Oh I know and she does it remarkably well. I love her for it, believe me. It's not about her or the Hibs.

Like I said. A wee HSL newsletter now and then. It's a few bob swishing about. Somebody mentioned good news. What would be better news than a photo of one of the HSL guys handing over a fat cheque or Leeann handing a share certificate over now and again?

How come I only read about this latest initiative at fundraising as it's on Hibs.net? That's not right. Is a mailshot really too much to ask?


Given time the HSL Official guy might even reply to my post.

Skol
17-07-2017, 07:35 PM
I feel that I put enough into the club with season ticket, matchday spending, cup ties and merchandise.

While its great what FoH have achieved (and HSL so far) I am not prepared to chuck in more of my hard earned cash.

Jonnyboy
17-07-2017, 07:36 PM
Generally really like your posts, DBS but this (albeit just your opinion) is way off the mark (in my opinion).

It's not as if people are giving their money away for nothing. We get a better, healthier club, we get to dilute STF's ownership with fan ownership.

It's transparent (HSL takes money, buys shares) nobody is scoring from it other than the fans and the team. It's as far removed from a scam as you can get.

With you 100% on this one, Matty. DBS is one of my favourite posters and I'd guess around 90% of his posts are to be taken in jest but this one left me a bit cold. As others have said, if you're of a mind to and you can afford it, then join HSL. It's been clear from day one where the funds go, nothing like any sort of scam I've ever encountered. Also, the wee video has not been well received by some and that's fair enough but for anyone to suggest the "£100,000" target is for vague purposes, then they need to watch the film again.

Steve-O
17-07-2017, 08:30 PM
Quite surprised that this hasn't been mooted tbh. Certainly after the cup win - would have been a great way to maintain a feel good factor, and raise money for fan ownership too.

I think in reality they're a pair of miserable buggers. #controversial

Still like the music!

cabbageandribs1875
17-07-2017, 08:47 PM
It's a tangent but Leeann abolished the Loyalty scheme on the back of us HSL punters receiving 100 bonus points for nothing really and it created bad feeling amongst non-HSL punters and some bad reaction towards ticket office staff. All inexcusable.
I never asked for the bonus - I would like my loyalty points back! Maybe having a foot in both camps isn't so great, using that one as a wee example.



ditto :agree:

BSEJVT
17-07-2017, 08:56 PM
I have no doubts whatsoever that HSL are doing what they were set up to do and the money is going to the club. None whatsoever.

My problem is that I think they are doing it badly and have done from the start, to fail to promote themselves heavily on the back of the cup win for example was a huge tactical blunder.

Most folk know that the monies raised are gradually buying the new shares created but it needs to have a longer lasting purpose than that and be marketed as such as if it stops at that point the club will lose £20,00 a month of income from the playing budget.

Buying membership rights in a company that owns shares isn't that sexy.

We should be doing everything we can to get every Hibs supporter in the world involved in this at whatever rate and forever and one way to do that is through greater engagement with the fans from HSL and the club offering access through for example monthly draws to some money cant buy experiences around the club for contributors.

I still contribute my £18.75 per month long after my year is up, but HSL do nothing to make we want to continue to do so or to increase the contribution level.

Instead I increased my monthly KFK subscription this year and will continue to do so as at least someone gets something out of this whilst I am helping the club.

I would like to be better informed but its not a deal breaker for me, but I would like to feel part of something that is growing, successful and is seen to be making a huge difference.

Telling me once in a blue moon that HSL now owns x% of the shares and that obliquely that it has helped fund players signings isn't doing that as I knew that was where the money was to go.

Its repugnant to me that FOH are reputedly able to raise £100k per month more than we do.

I hear all the arguments about that being borne out of necessity but that is old news now and despite the contrast in our fortunes over the last 2 seasons they are pissing all over us in this regard.

Its only through their gross mismanagement on the football side and Budgie's flight of fancy with the new Mega Stand that that advantage isn't leading to them signing far better players than us and moulding them into a team.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then and we had better hope that that doesn't happen soon.

HSL needs to keep its name more prominent, make it easier to sign up, link with the mains fans sites / groups to promote themselves and do so at the odd game across the season. it needs to recruit advocates amongst the support to promote it. Are you listening Ozy? :-)

Surely some of the Working Together folk would be happy to do that, but there needs to be a story, a message and it needs to be out their and always in view and regularly refreshed.

Marketing isn't my thing but there must be folk amongst our support capable of helping them out?

I will certainly look forward with interest to the next elections for office bearers as although I am sure those involved do their best and its great that they give up their time willingly to do so, the thing needs a massive shot in the arm and a much more professional set up with folk having definable specific roles rather than the odd icon / Hibs supporting luminary prepared to chuck out the odd soundbite.

I have no problem with the £100k campaign, but it is a damp squib and launched way to late in the day.

If we had been asked to get involved earlier and could have saw that translated into possible signings this window it would probably have got much more traction.

As it stands it will take 444.44 new members paying £18.75 per month a whole year to raise that money!

As the various transfer threads show football supporters want far quicker gratification than that.

It would have been a far easier sell to target another 100 contributors per month and to have a plan to get them and to share that success. Such as has been done with our increasing season ticket sales driving a sense of momentum.

ancient hibee
17-07-2017, 09:45 PM
HSL is a fans led method of donating to the club & if you can afford it I would recommend it to anyone in the position to do so.
That's what it says on the tin & it doesn't pretend to be anything else.
Meybes an e-mail every couple of months would be nice but it's no deal breaker; what it is is good news and I don't
really get the negatives.
GG
Sorry but you're wrong.HSL is not a way of donating to the club.It's a way of helping to bring about fan ownership.A very different objective.

Ozyhibby
17-07-2017, 10:07 PM
I have no doubts whatsoever that HSL are doing what they were set up to do and the money is going to the club. None whatsoever.

My problem is that I think they are doing it badly and have done from the start, to fail to promote themselves heavily on the back of the cup win for example was a huge tactical blunder.

Most folk know that the monies raised are gradually buying the new shares created but it needs to have a longer lasting purpose than that and be marketed as such as if it stops at that point the club will lose £20,00 a month of income from the playing budget.

Buying membership rights in a company that owns shares isn't that sexy.

We should be doing everything we can to get every Hibs supporter in the world involved in this at whatever rate and forever and one way to do that is through greater engagement with the fans from HSL and the club offering access through for example monthly draws to some money cant buy experiences around the club for contributors.

I still contribute my £18.75 per month long after my year is up, but HSL do nothing to make we want to continue to do so or to increase the contribution level.

Instead I increased my monthly KFK subscription this year and will continue to do so as at least someone gets something out of this whilst I am helping the club.

I would like to be better informed but its not a deal breaker for me, but I would like to feel part of something that is growing, successful and is seen to be making a huge difference.

Telling me once in a blue moon that HSL now owns x% of the shares and that obliquely that it has helped fund players signings isn't doing that as I knew that was where the money was to go.

Its repugnant to me that FOH are reputedly able to raise £100k per month more than we do.

I hear all the arguments about that being borne out of necessity but that is old news now and despite the contrast in our fortunes over the last 2 seasons they are pissing all over us in this regard.

Its only through their gross mismanagement on the football side and Budgie's flight of fancy with the new Mega Stand that that advantage isn't leading to them signing far better players than us and moulding them into a team.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then and we had better hope that that doesn't happen soon.

HSL needs to keep its name more prominent, make it easier to sign up, link with the mains fans sites / groups to promote themselves and do so at the odd game across the season. it needs to recruit advocates amongst the support to promote it. Are you listening Ozy? :-)

Surely some of the Working Together folk would be happy to do that, but there needs to be a story, a message and it needs to be out their and always in view and regularly refreshed.

Marketing isn't my thing but there must be folk amongst our support capable of helping them out?

I will certainly look forward with interest to the next elections for office bearers as although I am sure those involved do their best and its great that they give up their time willingly to do so, the thing needs a massive shot in the arm and a much more professional set up with folk having definable specific roles rather than the odd icon / Hibs supporting luminary prepared to chuck out the odd soundbite.

I have no problem with the £100k campaign, but it is a damp squib and launched way to late in the day.

If we had been asked to get involved earlier and could have saw that translated into possible signings this window it would probably have got much more traction.

As it stands it will take 444.44 new members paying £18.75 per month a whole year to raise that money!

As the various transfer threads show football supporters want far quicker gratification than that.

It would have been a far easier sell to target another 100 contributors per month and to have a plan to get them and to share that success. Such as has been done with our increasing season ticket sales driving a sense of momentum.

Great post.


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Eyrie
17-07-2017, 10:46 PM
As a member I agree that there is a lack of communication from HSL and, whilst I appreciate it is run by volunteers, that is something that could be simply rectified by a quarterly update saying that there are now X members contributing £Y per month, and as a result we the members now own Z% of the shares in our football club.

It is then easy enough to add in a couple of promotional paragraphs and email it to everyone on the HSL database as well as post it on the HSL website.

CapitalGreen
17-07-2017, 11:00 PM
I have no doubts whatsoever that HSL are doing what they were set up to do and the money is going to the club. None whatsoever.

My problem is that I think they are doing it badly and have done from the start, to fail to promote themselves heavily on the back of the cup win for example was a huge tactical blunder.

Most folk know that the monies raised are gradually buying the new shares created but it needs to have a longer lasting purpose than that and be marketed as such as if it stops at that point the club will lose £20,00 a month of income from the playing budget.

Buying membership rights in a company that owns shares isn't that sexy.

We should be doing everything we can to get every Hibs supporter in the world involved in this at whatever rate and forever and one way to do that is through greater engagement with the fans from HSL and the club offering access through for example monthly draws to some money cant buy experiences around the club for contributors.

I still contribute my £18.75 per month long after my year is up, but HSL do nothing to make we want to continue to do so or to increase the contribution level.

Instead I increased my monthly KFK subscription this year and will continue to do so as at least someone gets something out of this whilst I am helping the club.

I would like to be better informed but its not a deal breaker for me, but I would like to feel part of something that is growing, successful and is seen to be making a huge difference.

Telling me once in a blue moon that HSL now owns x% of the shares and that obliquely that it has helped fund players signings isn't doing that as I knew that was where the money was to go.

Its repugnant to me that FOH are reputedly able to raise £100k per month more than we do.

I hear all the arguments about that being borne out of necessity but that is old news now and despite the contrast in our fortunes over the last 2 seasons they are pissing all over us in this regard.

Its only through their gross mismanagement on the football side and Budgie's flight of fancy with the new Mega Stand that that advantage isn't leading to them signing far better players than us and moulding them into a team.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then and we had better hope that that doesn't happen soon.

HSL needs to keep its name more prominent, make it easier to sign up, link with the mains fans sites / groups to promote themselves and do so at the odd game across the season. it needs to recruit advocates amongst the support to promote it. Are you listening Ozy? :-)

Surely some of the Working Together folk would be happy to do that, but there needs to be a story, a message and it needs to be out their and always in view and regularly refreshed.

Marketing isn't my thing but there must be folk amongst our support capable of helping them out?

I will certainly look forward with interest to the next elections for office bearers as although I am sure those involved do their best and its great that they give up their time willingly to do so, the thing needs a massive shot in the arm and a much more professional set up with folk having definable specific roles rather than the odd icon / Hibs supporting luminary prepared to chuck out the odd soundbite.

I have no problem with the £100k campaign, but it is a damp squib and launched way to late in the day.

If we had been asked to get involved earlier and could have saw that translated into possible signings this window it would probably have got much more traction.

As it stands it will take 444.44 new members paying £18.75 per month a whole year to raise that money!

As the various transfer threads show football supporters want far quicker gratification than that.

It would have been a far easier sell to target another 100 contributors per month and to have a plan to get them and to share that success. Such as has been done with our increasing season ticket sales driving a sense of momentum.

Agree with pretty much everything you say above.

villager
18-07-2017, 01:02 AM
I have no doubts whatsoever that HSL are doing what they were set up to do and the money is going to the club. None whatsoever.

My problem is that I think they are doing it badly and have done from the start, to fail to promote themselves heavily on the back of the cup win for example was a huge tactical blunder.

Most folk know that the monies raised are gradually buying the new shares created but it needs to have a longer lasting purpose than that and be marketed as such as if it stops at that point the club will lose £20,00 a month of income from the playing budget.

Buying membership rights in a company that owns shares isn't that sexy.

We should be doing everything we can to get every Hibs supporter in the world involved in this at whatever rate and forever and one way to do that is through greater engagement with the fans from HSL and the club offering access through for example monthly draws to some money cant buy experiences around the club for contributors.

I still contribute my £18.75 per month long after my year is up, but HSL do nothing to make we want to continue to do so or to increase the contribution level.

Instead I increased my monthly KFK subscription this year and will continue to do so as at least someone gets something out of this whilst I am helping the club.

I would like to be better informed but its not a deal breaker for me, but I would like to feel part of something that is growing, successful and is seen to be making a huge difference.

Telling me once in a blue moon that HSL now owns x% of the shares and that obliquely that it has helped fund players signings isn't doing that as I knew that was where the money was to go.

Its repugnant to me that FOH are reputedly able to raise £100k per month more than we do.

I hear all the arguments about that being borne out of necessity but that is old news now and despite the contrast in our fortunes over the last 2 seasons they are pissing all over us in this regard.

Its only through their gross mismanagement on the football side and Budgie's flight of fancy with the new Mega Stand that that advantage isn't leading to them signing far better players than us and moulding them into a team.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then and we had better hope that that doesn't happen soon.

HSL needs to keep its name more prominent, make it easier to sign up, link with the mains fans sites / groups to promote themselves and do so at the odd game across the season. it needs to recruit advocates amongst the support to promote it. Are you listening Ozy? :-)

Surely some of the Working Together folk would be happy to do that, but there needs to be a story, a message and it needs to be out their and always in view and regularly refreshed.

Marketing isn't my thing but there must be folk amongst our support capable of helping them out?

I will certainly look forward with interest to the next elections for office bearers as although I am sure those involved do their best and its great that they give up their time willingly to do so, the thing needs a massive shot in the arm and a much more professional set up with folk having definable specific roles rather than the odd icon / Hibs supporting luminary prepared to chuck out the odd soundbite.

I have no problem with the £100k campaign, but it is a damp squib and launched way to late in the day.

If we had been asked to get involved earlier and could have saw that translated into possible signings this window it would probably have got much more traction.

As it stands it will take 444.44 new members paying £18.75 per month a whole year to raise that money!

As the various transfer threads show football supporters want far quicker gratification than that.

It would have been a far easier sell to target another 100 contributors per month and to have a plan to get them and to share that success. Such as has been done with our increasing season ticket sales driving a sense of momentum.

Nailed it.

Nakedmanoncrack
18-07-2017, 04:10 AM
Apologies if it's already been covered, but when was the HSL AGM this year? I recall attending the first one, but haven't had any invite to another one since.

GreenLake
18-07-2017, 05:25 AM
Hopefully there will be volunteers to add some marketing and promotional efforts for this season ahead. I'm sure the HLS guys will be glad of any help raising contributions.

I will donate £50 monthly.:scarf:

Let's roll!

CropleyWasGod
18-07-2017, 06:05 AM
Apologies if it's already been covered, but when was the HSL AGM this year? I recall attending the first one, but haven't had any invite to another one since.
Hasn't been one this year yet.

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Ronniekirk
18-07-2017, 06:56 AM
I am assuming my monthly donation is still coming off by direct debit but will check
Said i would double my contribution when we got promoted so will do that
But agree re lack of communication


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Just Alf
18-07-2017, 08:26 AM
As a member I agree that there is a lack of communication from HSL and, whilst I appreciate it is run by volunteers, that is something that could be simply rectified by a quarterly update saying that there are now X members contributing £Y per month, and as a result we the members now own Z% of the shares in our football club.

It is then easy enough to add in a couple of promotional paragraphs and email it to everyone on the HSL database as well as post it on the HSL website.


Hopefully there will be volunteers to add some marketing and promotional efforts for this season ahead. I'm sure the HLS guys will be glad of any help raising contributions.

I will donate £50 monthly.:scarf:

Let's roll!

Eyrie, Totally agree, we've had the odd (welcome) update but that's it.

Greenlake, on one of the updates (as well as on here at least a year ago) they mentioned there was 5-6 of them working as volunteers and that there was generally £0 spent on Admin with all monies being used to buy shares so any Hibees willing to help out would be greatly appreciated with marketing being specifically mentioned.
As some have mentioned, their Twitter is much improved since then so maybe they got at least a bit of help :agree:

Oh and well done on yer contributions! :aok:

:flag:

OfficialHSL
18-07-2017, 01:42 PM
Every penny HSL raises from its 1,600 members goes into the club, it also increases HSL's shareholding in the club .... throw in the independent shareholders many of whom also contribute to HSL and how many shareholders in Hibs outside of STF and RP does that give you ... 3,000, 4000?

How many folk will be in control of 51% of Hibs and therefor in effect 'own' the club by the time that is achieved ... 4,000, 5000?

We already have folk complaining on this thread, many of whom already contribute to HSL, that HSL are looking to raise an additional £100,000 from them and hopefully new members. What's it going to be like when fans own 51% of the club and the club approaches these folk saying we don't need £100,000 but £1,000,000 ........... and lets face it, when we do own full control that day will inevitably come.

This is why in my opinion a controlling interest in this club owned by a relatively small number of ordinary and far from rich supporters is a recipe for if not disaster then at the very least stagnation ....... IMO what is required here is a big enough share to stop asset strippers and Romanov type nutters, but not enough that it stops rich individuals, or more unlikely companies, being able to say they own Hibernian FC and massaging their ego enough that they are encouraged to pour their personal wealth into the club.

From her utterances in the last 12 months I cant help thinking Budge down the road is of the same opinion and that's a club which already has a number of fans putting into it that we as things stand can only dream of reaching.
Nae Nookie

Rest assured, your current Board of Directors share your view. We would never suggest or support a level of shareholding that we feel our Membership could not support. With our current level of Membership a controlling stake would be unthinkable. Our "friends" across the City are in a different position and have demonstrated a willingness to take financial responsibility for their Club. Our principal aim it to accept some financial responsibility. We cannot as fans just keep hoping that someone else will shoulder that entire responsibility.

OfficialHSL
18-07-2017, 01:50 PM
Totally agree, far from inspiring. You need to get something that going to stir a bit of emotion, like the ST campaign. As you say, get footage of the cup final, the parade, the fans singing in the stands, Gray lifting the league winners trophy etc.

The ST campaign was great with the music, the final footage, the fan talking about the highs and lows of being a hibee. It put a lump in the throat and reaffirmed the love we have for the club that makes people more likely to get on board.

I know they don't want to waste limited funds on big PR campaigns or pay expensive advertising companies but surely someone involved has a bit of tech skills to put together a video or something. No offense to Charlie Reid but as you say, its all a wee bit glum and downbeat.

Rest assured we fully understand and acknowledge your points. We would love to commission an all singing all dancing advert but these come at a price and are not cheap. We are only Directors and take our responsibilities for your money very seriously. From the outset our role has been very simple, to provide a very cost efficient vehicle for fans with limited means to take an ownership stake in our Club. It was never anticipated that we would actively promote and market this as the overall Share Offering is part of the Clubs longer term strategy of widening the share ownership of the Club. Would have looked at the responses to some of the Club's "adverts" and quite frankly with similar results we would not even be able to cover our anticipated outlay.

Once again however we would really welcome any help from fellow supporters involved in video production.

HSL

OfficialHSL
18-07-2017, 02:02 PM
Hi HSL

Directly at you.

I'm wondering if you are still getting my monthly contributions in perpetuity.
I haven't heard a squeak from the organisation since I moaned my tits off at anyone who would listen after the Hearts tickets debacle back in February (HSL being cited at the time as a reason in part for the 'loyalty points' scheme being trashed). We spoke and I was promised better communication.
I kept my subs going at the time when I was thinking better of it and still do. But not hearing anything has led me to question why I'm still contributing far less encouraging anyone else to do so.
I'd no idea what you did with the money then and I still don't.
Iggy

Thank you for your comments. If you email us at info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk we will be delighted to confirm if we are receiving your contributions.

Bearing in mind our simple remit and function we have very little to communicate on masse to our Members. Our role is to safely collect supporter donations and ensure we receive shares in return from the Club. From time to time we continue to encourage our Members to encourage fellow supporters to join and of course initial debate on various Hibs Forums. Nearly all the feedback that we receive encourages us to get as much money into the Club as possible with much less interest in events for Members. We update on our shareholding and total donations to date. Our Membership growth has slowed down significantly and we cannot seem to get beyond our existing hard core of about 1600 Members. As previously stated it is for all our other fellow supporters to decide what they want for our Club. Our Club is not awash with money. Season Ticket money alone just allows the Club to exist. The reality in Scotland is that money buys and funds playing squads.

HSL

lucky
18-07-2017, 02:06 PM
Nae Nookie

Rest assured, your current Board of Directors share your view. We would never suggest or support a level of shareholding that we feel our Membership could not support. With our current level of Membership a controlling stake would be unthinkable. Our "friends" across the City are in a different position and have demonstrated a willingness to take financial responsibility for their Club. Our principal aim it to accept some financial responsibility. We cannot as fans just keep hoping that someone else will shoulder that entire responsibility.

Is this not a change in policy? I thought HSL was the vehicle for fan ownership? Surely this must be up for discussion at least at the AGM. Got to say I'm a bit surprised that taking ownership of the club is now no longer the aspiration of the current directors.

Peevemor
18-07-2017, 02:15 PM
Is this not a change in policy? I thought HSL was the vehicle for fan ownership? Surely this must be up for discussion at least at the AGM. Got to say I'm a bit surprised that taking ownership of the club is now no longer the aspiration of the current directors.

HSL is only one shareholder among many. There's no harm in them never having a controlling stake

Ozyhibby
18-07-2017, 02:31 PM
HSL is only one shareholder among many. There's no harm in them never having a controlling stake

They can never get a controlling stake anyway. There are not enough shares up for grabs. Between Petrie and farmers stake and the individual shareholder is already more than 60%.


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Peevemor
18-07-2017, 02:37 PM
They can never get a controlling stake anyway. There are not enough shares up for grabs. Between Petrie and farmers stake and the individual shareholder is already more than 60%.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sort of true, though in theory they could eventually finish with the majority shareholding if people continue to contribute and STF/RP/HFC Holdings were to sell them their shares once the 51% fan ownership target is attained.

Although I appreciate that that's a lot of "ifs" and isn't the aim in any case.

Bostonhibby
18-07-2017, 02:43 PM
Sort of true, though in theory they could eventually finish with the majority shareholding if people continue to contribute and STF/RP/HFC Holdings were to sell them their shares once the 51% fan ownership target is attained.

Although I appreciate that that's a lot of "ifs" and isn't the aim in any case.Enough to be at the table and be an effective block when the next Wallace mercer trundles up with someone else's money is a very acceptable outcome for me however long it takes to get there.



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Peevemor
18-07-2017, 02:45 PM
Enough to be at the table and be an effective block when the next Wallace mercer trundles up with someone else's money is a very acceptable outcome for me however long it takes to get there.



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:agree:

Ozyhibby
18-07-2017, 02:49 PM
Enough to be at the table and be an effective block when the next Wallace mercer trundles up with someone else's money is a very acceptable outcome for me however long it takes to get there.



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Exactly. If HSL get to 26% then we are safe from these types forever.


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Bostonhibby
18-07-2017, 02:49 PM
:agree:The beauty of being able to buy because we want to.



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Iggy Pope
18-07-2017, 03:21 PM
Iggy

Thank you for your comments. If you email us at info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk we will be delighted to confirm if we are receiving your contributions.

Bearing in mind our simple remit and function we have very little to communicate on masse to our Members. Our role is to safely collect supporter donations and ensure we receive shares in return from the Club. From time to time we continue to encourage our Members to encourage fellow supporters to join and of course initial debate on various Hibs Forums. Nearly all the feedback that we receive encourages us to get as much money into the Club as possible with much less interest in events for Members. We update on our shareholding and total donations to date. Our Membership growth has slowed down significantly and we cannot seem to get beyond our existing hard core of about 1600 Members. As previously stated it is for all our other fellow supporters to decide what they want for our Club. Our Club is not awash with money. Season Ticket money alone just allows the Club to exist. The reality in Scotland is that money buys and funds playing squads.

HSL


I'll be in touch. It seems a number of contributors think there isn't enough dialogue.
Some others just like having a smart arse pop.
Thanks for responding.

Stevie.

hhibs
18-07-2017, 03:26 PM
I have no problem with the model, I have concerns about the execution. In comparison with FoH, HSL appears wholly amateur.

Agreed.

Arch Stanton
18-07-2017, 03:28 PM
Is this not a change in policy? I thought HSL was the vehicle for fan ownership? Surely this must be up for discussion at least at the AGM. Got to say I'm a bit surprised that taking ownership of the club is now no longer the aspiration of the current directors.

My take is that it is the creation of new shares that is the vehicle for fan ownership. Not all these new shares will go to HSL, a lot will go (have gone) directly to fans. Fans will still have a %51 holding at the end of the day.

OfficialHSL
18-07-2017, 04:41 PM
I wouldn't say defrauding in a legal sense. But most clubs as businesses exploit the unique loyalty supporters have to them. Most people are cool with this, at least to a degree, they will buy merchandise, special packages etc quite happily. Others, like myself, are uneasy about schemes like this, and feel that it takes advantage of a unique relationship and asks too much of people. I'm sure there are many in adverse financial circumstances, who have allowed emotion to circumvent common sense and overextended themselves. Of course, a business cannot cannot be held responsible for poor decision making by it's customers, but given the much-vaunted 'community' nature of the club and the uncertain times we live in, I personally feel that such schemes are a bridge too far.

Just my personal opinion, don't know how widely shared it is, but here I am expressing it.

Dashing

We do hope that all fans now realise that HSL is not a scam or a Ponzi scheme and indeed we do not seek to exploit our fans emotional attachment to our Club. We try to stress in all our communications that we appeal to only those supporters who have "spare" cash and who can comfortably afford to make a donation. We don't want anyone to stretch their finances.

HSL

Malthibby
18-07-2017, 04:44 PM
Dashing

We do hope that all fans now realise that HSL is not a scam or a Ponzi scheme and indeed we do not seek to exploit our fans emotional attachment to our Club. We try to stress in all our communications that we appeal to only those supporters who have "spare" cash and who can comfortably afford to make a donation. We don't want anyone to stretch their finances.

HSL

And repeat as required.:flag:

OfficialHSL
18-07-2017, 05:07 PM
Is this not a change in policy? I thought HSL was the vehicle for fan ownership? Surely this must be up for discussion at least at the AGM. Got to say I'm a bit surprised that taking ownership of the club is now no longer the aspiration of the current directors.

Lucky

I think you may have misunderstood our point.

It has never been a possibility from the outset that HSL could acquire a controlling interest in the club as 51% of the Club's shares were not available. Even if that had been the case your Directors are required to act responsibly. The simple point being made was that if our Membership did not exceed 1600 Members we should not seek to acquire a 51% shareholding. We would simply not have the financial might to support such a position. We are not saying we would not like to be in that position, of course we would but we would need to see the level of our monthly income significantly higher than it is at present. The FOH are in a position to generate a significant financial cushion ( over time ) to support the Club in bad times as well as good.


HSL

Arch Stanton
18-07-2017, 05:49 PM
Lucky

I think you may have misunderstood our point.

It has never been a possibility from the outset that HSL could acquire a controlling interest in the club as 51% of the Club's shares were not available. Even if that had been the case your Directors are required to act responsibly. The simple point being made was that if our Membership did not exceed 1600 Members we should not seek to acquire a 51% shareholding. We would simply not have the financial might to support such a position. We are not saying we would not like to be in that position, of course we would but we would need to see the level of our monthly income significantly higher than it is at present. The FOH are in a position to generate a significant financial cushion ( over time ) to support the Club in bad times as well as good.


HSL

What exactly is that post supposed to mean? I was fully supportive of HSL until I read this! Total nonsense!

For a start, your monthly income has no bearing as no time limit has been set for all the shares to be bought (as far as I am aware anyway). So, what exactly does FOH have that our 1600 members don't have?

And who exactly is sitting monitorring the monthly income and making decisions about how big a shareholding HSL should be aiming for?

ancient hibee
18-07-2017, 06:30 PM
They can never get a controlling stake anyway. There are not enough shares up for grabs. Between Petrie and farmers stake and the individual shareholder is already more than 60%.


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Absolute rubbish.The shares being bought are newly created as was the last issue which many individual fans purchased As at June last year fans owned 31% which was up from 18% the previous year.If that was to continue then in time the majority shareholders will become minority shareholders.

simple
18-07-2017, 06:44 PM
I also think there needs to be more communication from HSL, even if it is to just try and get new members. Out of my group of 11 that regularly attend Easter road I believe I'm the only one that is a member of HSL. I've brought it up a few times in the pub and some have said they would join but probably still haven't, I believe if there was more encouragement to join we could easily have 3000-5000 members.

Ozyhibby
18-07-2017, 07:07 PM
Absolute rubbish.The shares being bought are newly created as was the last issue which many individual fans purchased As at June last year fans owned 31% which was up from 18% the previous year.If that was to continue then in time the majority shareholders will become minority shareholders.

Absolute rubbish?
The shares were newly created but what I said was correct.


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Col2
18-07-2017, 07:24 PM
Read all the comments here.

The timing, context and communication have been really poor. The club are on the up, Record season ticket sales, merchandise flying out the shop with new strips being sold in greater numbers than before, we have a strong squad and are looking to continue to bring in quality over quatity....yet this appeal smacks of desperation and knee jerk.

I get the take it or leave it but the club look amateur with this sort of approach especially with the link to player funding. Maybe a follow up communication clearing up some of the many questions raised here and wider.

Our friends from Gorgie are not slow to use this as a stick given FOH contributions and the sheer desperation of Budge cash cows etc was something I didn't think we would entertain on any level.

LeithMike
18-07-2017, 08:02 PM
I know HSL want to keep things simple and administrative costs low but I wonder if its functions could be broadened out a bit given it is (hopefully) viewed as a trusted corporate vehicle. For example, I would really like to pay one monthly amount to cover everything Hibs. I know Hibs do a payment plan for season tickets but I dont think there is a monthly option and I'm sure a finance company is charging Hibs a healthy fee.

I wonder if it would be possible for HSL to act as a conduit for buying season tickets by collecting monthly payments from a year in advance along with money actually for HSL and possibly even kicks for kids too?

I'd think nothing of setting up a monthly DD for £50 with £30 a month going to season ticket; £15 for HSL shares and £5 a month for KfK. I'm sure a lot of people would do the same. I appreciate season ticket prices may not be set a year in advance but I am sure things like that could be sorted and other obstacles should not be insurmountable.

Would also help connect HSL with the fans as it would broadening its services to Hibs supporters and if fans see the helpful role in acquisition of season tickets might be more trusted in relation to donations for share purchase.

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offshorehibby
18-07-2017, 08:06 PM
I've always thought HSL missed a big trick by not having a big membership drive within weeks of the cup win.

I vaguely remember a lengthy HSL discussion on here last year, #HSLofficial was answering questions and it came up that they desperately needed help/support. Obviously that support has not materialized.

No criticism of the guys looking after HSL at the moment but maybe it's about time we need a change at HSL board level. People with the time, energy and passion to move HSL on.

Again I say we missed a trick post cup final on recruitment.

Criswell
18-07-2017, 10:06 PM
Iggy

Thank you for your comments. If you email us at info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk we will be delighted to confirm if we are receiving your contributions.

Bearing in mind our simple remit and function we have very little to communicate on masse to our Members. Our role is to safely collect supporter donations and ensure we receive shares in return from the Club. From time to time we continue to encourage our Members to encourage fellow supporters to join and of course initial debate on various Hibs Forums. Nearly all the feedback that we receive encourages us to get as much money into the Club as possible with much less interest in events for Members. We update on our shareholding and total donations to date. Our Membership growth has slowed down significantly and we cannot seem to get beyond our existing hard core of about 1600 Members. As previously stated it is for all our other fellow supporters to decide what they want for our Club. Our Club is not awash with money. Season Ticket money alone just allows the Club to exist. The reality in Scotland is that money buys and funds playing squads.

HSL Does this mean the total number of people who have ever contributed or the current number who continue to do so? I am in the latter.

BSEJVT
19-07-2017, 06:43 AM
Absolute rubbish.The shares being bought are newly created as was the last issue which many individual fans purchased As at June last year fans owned 31% which was up from 18% the previous year.If that was to continue then in time the majority shareholders will become minority shareholders.

Have to say I think you are wrong and Ozy is correct

My recollection of the proposal is that there were to be a capped amount of shares available which would reduce the STF/Petrie holding to 51% when fully subscribed.

BSEJVT
19-07-2017, 06:58 AM
Bearing in mind our simple remit and function we have very little to communicate on masse to our Members. Our role is to safely collect supporter donations and ensure we receive shares in return from the Club. From time to time we continue to encourage our Members to encourage fellow supporters to join and of course initial debate on various Hibs Forums. Nearly all the feedback that we receive encourages us to get as much money into the Club as possible with much less interest in events for Members. We update on our shareholding and total donations to date. Our Membership growth has slowed down significantly and we cannot seem to get beyond our existing hard core of about 1600 Members. As previously stated it is for all our other fellow supporters to decide what they want for our Club. Our Club is not awash with money. Season Ticket money alone just allows the Club to exist. The reality in Scotland is that money buys and funds playing squads.

HSL

Can you provide a link to your memo and articles please and last accounts and any other information setting out the aims and objectives of HSL?

When is the next AGM?

When are the next elections for office bearers due?

Are you prepared to publish your board meeting minutes?

Can you set out exactly what you think is required to take HSL to the next level?

Specifically what assistance you believe you need broken down into areas and expected monthly time commitment per role?

What other infrastructure needs you have either at present or to move HSL forward?

What plans do you have to grow the subscriber base?

What number of subscribers do you believe is a realistic aspiration for HSL?

How much do you believe is a realistic aspiration for HSL to raise per month?

What is the average rate of current member monthly contribution?

What do you do to retain members who have met their initial commitment to be classed as members?

What plans do you have to contact historic HSL subscribers whose direct debits ceased after acquiring membership to ascertain whether they are prepared to rejoin / Pay on behalf of other family members

Thanks

Pretty Boy
19-07-2017, 07:59 AM
Have to say I think you are wrong and Ozy is correct

My recollection of the proposal is that there were to be a capped amount of shares available which would reduce the STF/Petrie holding to 51% when fully subscribed.

I think STF shareholding is to be reduced to 49%.

I think the point being made, and perhaps missed, by the other poster is that HSL can't gain that 51% stake as there are other shareholders who hold a stake in that 51% (or 30%+ as it currently stands).

Bostonhibby
19-07-2017, 08:04 AM
I think STF shareholding is to be reduced to 49%.

I think the point being made, and perhaps missed, by the other poster is that HSL can't gain that 51% stake as there are other shareholders who hold a stake in that 51% (or 30%+ as it currently stands).[emoji106]

The other shareholders are mostly fans who hold shares in their own right in addition to or instead of HSL.

If every share on offer through HSL was taken up you are right.

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offshorehibby
19-07-2017, 08:15 AM
Can you provide a link to your memo and articles please and last accounts and any other information setting out the aims and objectives of HSL?

When is the next AGM?

When are the next elections for office bearers due?

Are you prepared to publish your board meeting minutes?

Can you set out exactly what you think is required to take HSL to the next level?

Specifically what assistance you believe you need broken down into areas and expected monthly time commitment per role?

What other infrastructure needs you have either at present or to move HSL forward?

What plans do you have to grow the subscriber base?

What number of subscribers do you believe is a realistic aspiration for HSL?

How much do you believe is a realistic aspiration for HSL to raise per month?

What is the average rate of current member monthly contribution?

What do you do to retain members who have met their initial commitment to be classed as members?

Thanks

While i can't answer any of your above questions may be this will be a starting point.

http://www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk/about.html

'The Board of Hibernian announced on 29 December 2014 that it intended to widen the ownership of the Club by issuing new shares which would enable the Holding Company’s shareholding in Hibernian to be diluted below 50%.

Today the creation of Hibernian Supporters Limited is announced, a company limited by guarantee that has been established with the sole purpose and primary objectives of acquiring shares in Hibernian Football Club Ltd and to hold those shares for the benefit of the supporters of the Club.

There is a binding legal agreement between Hibernian Supporters Limited and Hibernian Football Club that guarantees the transfer of shares on receipt of funds and that those funds will only be used to further the Club’s sporting ambitions and not directed to current shareholders.

Hibernian Supporters Limited will be owned by supporters who make contributions which in turn will be used to acquire shares in Hibernian. Supporters who make contributions will not own shares directly but will own Hibernian Supporters Limited which in turn will own the shares in the Club.

Hibernian Supporters Limited is a simple alternative to holding shares directly. Acquiring shares directly requires individuals to comply with rigorous Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 regulations.

Contributions to Hibernian Supporters Limited can be made on a monthly basis or by lump sum. The more money raised the more shares can be acquired. The more shares acquired mean more involvement and influence supporters can have in the Club – there is strength in solidarity.'

Being an existing HSL member there are a few questions on you list i would like the answer to. I can only think of one AGM since it started and i believe that was poorly attended.

I've said already on this thread, if the board elections come about this year this could be the time to reinvigorate HSL. A well publicised AGM will be a good start.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
19-07-2017, 08:48 AM
How do you go about altering a direct debit?

offshorehibby
19-07-2017, 08:51 AM
How do you go about altering a direct debit?

Maybe a good starting point, email info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk or a PM to 'officialHSL'

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
19-07-2017, 08:54 AM
Maybe a good starting point, email info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk or a PM to 'officialHSL'

Cheers mate

BSEJVT
19-07-2017, 09:13 AM
While i can't answer any of your above questions may be this will be a starting point.

http://www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk/about.html

'The Board of Hibernian announced on 29 December 2014 that it intended to widen the ownership of the Club by issuing new shares which would enable the Holding Company’s shareholding in Hibernian to be diluted below 50%.

Today the creation of Hibernian Supporters Limited is announced, a company limited by guarantee that has been established with the sole purpose and primary objectives of acquiring shares in Hibernian Football Club Ltd and to hold those shares for the benefit of the supporters of the Club.

There is a binding legal agreement between Hibernian Supporters Limited and Hibernian Football Club that guarantees the transfer of shares on receipt of funds and that those funds will only be used to further the Club’s sporting ambitions and not directed to current shareholders.

Hibernian Supporters Limited will be owned by supporters who make contributions which in turn will be used to acquire shares in Hibernian. Supporters who make contributions will not own shares directly but will own Hibernian Supporters Limited which in turn will own the shares in the Club.

Hibernian Supporters Limited is a simple alternative to holding shares directly. Acquiring shares directly requires individuals to comply with rigorous Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 regulations.

Contributions to Hibernian Supporters Limited can be made on a monthly basis or by lump sum. The more money raised the more shares can be acquired. The more shares acquired mean more involvement and influence supporters can have in the Club – there is strength in solidarity.'

Being an existing HSL member there are a few questions on you list i would like the answer to. I can only think of one AGM since it started and i believe that was poorly attended.

I've said already on this thread, if the board elections come about this year this could be the time to reinvigorate HSL. A well publicised AGM will be a good start.

Many Thanks

BSEJVT
19-07-2017, 09:15 AM
I think STF shareholding is to be reduced to 49%.

I think the point being made, and perhaps missed, by the other poster is that HSL can't gain that 51% stake as there are other shareholders who hold a stake in that 51% (or 30%+ as it currently stands).

Many Thanks

CropleyWasGod
19-07-2017, 09:55 AM
Can you provide a link to your memo and articles please and last accounts and any other information setting out the aims and objectives of HSL?




Thanks

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC494691/filing-history

BSEJVT
19-07-2017, 10:10 AM
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC494691/filing-history

Many many thanks

marinello59
19-07-2017, 10:13 AM
I think STF shareholding is to be reduced to 49%.

I think the point being made, and perhaps missed, by the other poster is that HSL can't gain that 51% stake as there are other shareholders who hold a stake in that 51% (or 30%+ as it currently stands).

This is where I have a problem with HSL. It was launched as a vehicle to enable the fams to gain ownership of the club if they wished but it can never gain a majority shareholding. Now the empasis seems to have shifted to copying FoH by funding the club. The recent election of fan reps should have been seen as chance to either re-negotiate the shareholding required to get an HSL rep in place or for HSL to have put up a dedicated HSL candidate that all of those who contribute could have got behind. It looks to me as if a certain degree of focus has been lost and any ambitions for genuine fan ownership looks a little half hearted now.

Pretty Boy
19-07-2017, 10:23 AM
This is where I have a problem with HSL. It was launched as a vehicle to enable the fams to gain ownership of the club if they wished but it can never gain a majority shareholding. Now the empasis seems to have shifted to copying FoH by funding the club. The recent election of fan reps should have been seen as chance to either re-negotiate the shareholding required to get an HSL rep in place or for HSL to have put up a dedicated HSL candidate that all of those who contribute could have got behind. It looks to me as if a certain degree of focus has been lost and any ambitions for genuine fan ownership looks a little half hearted now.

I'm a bit out the loop re HSL at the moment but I know there was an idea of asking individual shareholders to gift their shares to HSL or give their shareholders vote to HSL. Whether that is still the case I don't know. I think it has struggled for momentum as it has run alongside the clubs direct share issues and you have highlighted the problem in your post, it's no longer a vehicle for collective fan ownership.

I think trying to get a fans rep on board as an HSL candidate may create even more division. There were (false) accusations that Pat Stanton had been 'used' by HSL to get a board member 'through the back door' last time around that a lot of people were all too happy to believe. I certainly wouldn't like to be the person standing as an official HSL candidate, the threats and smearing would be off the scale.

CropleyWasGod
19-07-2017, 10:24 AM
This is where I have a problem with HSL. It was launched as a vehicle to enable the fams to gain ownership of the club if they wished but it can never gain a majority shareholding. Now the empasis seems to have shifted to copying FoH by funding the club. The recent election of fan reps should have been seen as chance to either re-negotiate the shareholding required to get an HSL rep in place or for HSL to have put up a dedicated HSL candidate that all of those who contribute could have got behind. It looks to me as if a certain degree of focus has been lost and any ambitions for genuine fan ownership looks a little half hearted now.

"facilitate" rather than enable, though.

Together with the individual supporter-shareholders, the HSL holding can achieve that. The funding of the club was always going to happen as a side-effect of that. Indeed, for me personally, that's the most attractive part of it.

Danderhall Hibs
19-07-2017, 10:28 AM
How do you go about altering a direct debit?

Via your bank.

BSEJVT
19-07-2017, 10:38 AM
Via your bank.

No you don't

Direct debits are "led" by the recipient

You can cancel it via the bank who will also tell you to tell the recipient but any other changes need to be recipient led.

Arch Stanton
19-07-2017, 10:39 AM
This is where I have a problem with HSL. It was launched as a vehicle to enable the fams to gain ownership of the club if they wished but it can never gain a majority shareholding. Now the empasis seems to have shifted to copying FoH by funding the club. The recent election of fan reps should have been seen as chance to either re-negotiate the shareholding required to get an HSL rep in place or for HSL to have put up a dedicated HSL candidate that all of those who contribute could have got behind. It looks to me as if a certain degree of focus has been lost and any ambitions for genuine fan ownership looks a little half hearted now.

I don't think there has been an emphasis shift at all just an inept post by OfficialHSL. In fact 'emphasis' and 'HSL' is something of an oxymoron in my view.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
19-07-2017, 11:28 AM
I think people are being unduly harsh on HSL.

I agree they have nevet had the impetus (or endless free publicity from the media) that FoH got, and so they habe struggled a bit for momentum. Not helped by the various rumours that always seem to swirl around about nefarious plans etc.

But come on, this is as worthy a Hibernian cause as they come. I got on board quite early because i think its important that us fans grab this opportunity to take control of the future of our club, for the bare minimum reason to stop the endless line of shysters that hover around fitba teams from ever getting control in the future.

Also, Hearts will eventually leave us for dust with their additional income - i dont understand why more hibbies dont recognise this threat - circa £1m more per season to spend on players will be an ENORMOUS advantage over us, amd i for one dont want that to happen.

I see loads of folk saying the jambos DDs will drop off, but i think thats wishful, lazy and complacent thinking. It is now established among them, 10-15 quid a month goes to hearts. I dont know any who will withdraw that. There might be a few, but FoH, amd the significant funding that it brings is here to stay.

We face a major threat, and we as a support have to respond or we will be fighting them with one hand tied behind our back. Amd the plus side is we get to take over the guardianship of our club.

I genuinely dont understand why more Hibbies arent getting involved.

marinello59
19-07-2017, 11:30 AM
"facilitate" rather than enable, though.

Together with the individual supporter-shareholders, the HSL holding can achieve that. The funding of the club was always going to happen as a side-effect of that. Indeed, for me personally, that's the most attractive part of it.

That's a much better word.:greengrin

lord bunberry
19-07-2017, 11:36 AM
I think people are being unduly harsh on HSL.

I agree they have nevet had the impetus (or endless free publicity from the media) that FoH got, and so they habe struggled a bit for momentum. Not helped by the various rumours that always seem to swirl around about nefarious plans etc.

But come on, this is as worthy a Hibernian cause as they come. I got on board quite early because i think its important that us fans grab this opportunity to take control of the future of our club, for the bare minimum reason to stop the endless line of shysters that hover around fitba teams from ever getting control in the future.

Also, Hearts will eventually leave us for dust with their additional income - i dont understand why more hibbies dont recognise this threat - circa £1m more per season to spend on players will be an ENORMOUS advantage over us, amd i for one dont want that to happen.

I see loads of folk saying the jambos DDs will drop off, but i think thats wishful, lazy and complacent thinking. It is now established among them, 10-15 quid a month goes to hearts. I dont know any who will withdraw that. There might be a few, but FoH, amd the significant funding that it brings is here to stay.

We face a major threat, and we as a support have to respond or we will be fighting them with one hand tied behind our back. Amd the plus side is we get to take over the guardianship of our club.

I genuinely dont understand why more Hibbies arent getting involved.
I agree. People will realise this when it's too late. Part of the problem is the poor promotion of HSL. We need to get more people involved that can give their expertise for free to promote this scheme and get more people signed up. The alternative is to see us fall behind our rivals.

offshorehibby
19-07-2017, 11:53 AM
I think people are being unduly harsh on HSL.

I agree they have nevet had the impetus (or endless free publicity from the media) that FoH got, and so they habe struggled a bit for momentum. Not helped by the various rumours that always seem to swirl around about nefarious plans etc.

But come on, this is as worthy a Hibernian cause as they come. I got on board quite early because i think its important that us fans grab this opportunity to take control of the future of our club, for the bare minimum reason to stop the endless line of shysters that hover around fitba teams from ever getting control in the future.

Also, Hearts will eventually leave us for dust with their additional income - i dont understand why more hibbies dont recognise this threat - circa £1m more per season to spend on players will be an ENORMOUS advantage over us, amd i for one dont want that to happen.

I see loads of folk saying the jambos DDs will drop off, but i think thats wishful, lazy and complacent thinking. It is now established among them, 10-15 quid a month goes to hearts. I dont know any who will withdraw that. There might be a few, but FoH, amd the significant funding that it brings is here to stay.

We face a major threat, and we as a support have to respond or we will be fighting them with one hand tied behind our back. Amd the plus side is we get to take over the guardianship of our club.

I genuinely dont understand why more Hibbies arent getting involved.


I agree. People will realise this when it's too late. Part of the problem is the poor promotion of HSL. We need to get more people involved that can give their expertise for free to promote this scheme and get more people signed up. The alternative is to see us fall behind our rivals.

I agree with both statements but think HSL should have 2 major recruitment drives within weeks off the cup win and again after winning the championship.

madhatter
19-07-2017, 12:04 PM
is there a funding graphic showing us how we are doing towards this target? I really think better communication is necessary. Raise money but have no idea how we are doing collectively and also no real spur to give more money. A simple webpage with a graphic that can be routinely updated to show how far towards 100k could act as an enticer.

madhatter
19-07-2017, 12:10 PM
I think people are being unduly harsh on HSL.

I agree they have nevet had the impetus (or endless free publicity from the media) that FoH got, and so they habe struggled a bit for momentum. Not helped by the various rumours that always seem to swirl around about nefarious plans etc.

But come on, this is as worthy a Hibernian cause as they come. I got on board quite early because i think its important that us fans grab this opportunity to take control of the future of our club, for the bare minimum reason to stop the endless line of shysters that hover around fitba teams from ever getting control in the future.

Also, Hearts will eventually leave us for dust with their additional income - i dont understand why more hibbies dont recognise this threat - circa £1m more per season to spend on players will be an ENORMOUS advantage over us, amd i for one dont want that to happen.

I see loads of folk saying the jambos DDs will drop off, but i think thats wishful, lazy and complacent thinking. It is now established among them, 10-15 quid a month goes to hearts. I dont know any who will withdraw that. There might be a few, but FoH, amd the significant funding that it brings is here to stay.

We face a major threat, and we as a support have to respond or we will be fighting them with one hand tied behind our back. Amd the plus side is we get to take over the guardianship of our club.

I genuinely dont understand why more Hibbies arent getting involved.

I did give monthly to HSL but stopped. No communication, no simple rewards (signed strips in a raffle or something) every few months, nothing really beyond setting up the DD. Regardless of false Ponzi scheme rumours etc. we are becoming members of a company that owns a part of the club. We don't become individual shareholders of the club and for that company to have little to no communication is criminal, absolutely...

Since90+2
19-07-2017, 12:12 PM
HSL has not marketed itself correctly to be in a position to get close to what FOH is bringing in each month.

You can guarantee that almost every Hearts supporter would be able to tell you who Foundation of Hearts are and what they do. I would guess about 50% of Hibs fans have never heard of Hibernian Supporters Limited and even less would know exactly what they do and how to join.

Awareness of what they are trying to do is the major problem.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
19-07-2017, 12:15 PM
I agree with both statements but think HSL should have 2 major recruitment drives within weeks off the cup win and again after winning the championship.

Possibly, but that is in the past now so isnt going to change.

Bostonhibby
19-07-2017, 12:33 PM
HSL has not marketed itself correctly to be in a position to get close to what FOH is bringing in each month.

You can guarantee that almost every Hearts supporter would be able to tell you who Foundation of Hearts are and what they do. I would guess about 50% of Hibs fans have never heard of Hibernian Supporters Limited and even less would know exactly what they do and how to join.

Awareness of what they are trying to do is the major problem.

Their reasons for existing are entirely different, if Hibs were about to disappear and there was only one show in town to prevent it there'd that pre a similar or better response, they sleepwalked towards that problem bragging about owning banks, owing it to themselves, winning Champions leagues etc.........and got a very rude wake up call when they finally seen what the rest of us knew.

The two don't really compare, we can do ours or not by choice, we've paid for all the things they aspire to, currently they have just the one part built stand and an awful lot of obligations and as yet unfulfilled promises.

Communication could be better from HSL if enough folk expect more it should be done if feasible and relevant, Looking at their site makes it pretty clear why they exist and what to do however if a recruitment drive is on maybe a bit more professional support is required.

CentreLine
19-07-2017, 12:51 PM
Their reasons for existing are entirely different, if Hibs were about to disappear and there was only one show in town to prevent it there'd that pre a similar or better response, they sleepwalked towards that problem bragging about owning banks, owing it to themselves, winning Champions leagues etc.........and got a very rude wake up call when they finally seen what the rest of us knew.

The two don't really compare, we can do ours or not by choice, we've paid for all the things they aspire to, currently they have just the one part built stand and an awful lot of obligations and as yet unfulfilled promises.

Communication could be better from HSL if enough folk expect more it should be done if feasible and relevant, Looking at their site makes it pretty clear why they exist and what to do however if a recruitment drive is on maybe a bit more professional support is required.

I think the observation here is that hearts are no longer about to disappear and so the monies raised by fans is a bonus toward the player budget. They have to repay Ann Budge eventually but she is in no hurry to get that out of the club. So long as that continues then they have a potential advantage that we, as Hibs fans, are unwilling to meet and at least match. Thank goodness they have Cathro

Bostonhibby
19-07-2017, 12:54 PM
I think the observation here is that hearts are no longer about to disappear and so the monies raised by fans is a bonus toward the player budget. They have to repay Ann Budge eventually but she is in no hurry to get that out of the club. So long as that continues then they have a potential advantage that we, as Hibs fans, are unwilling to meet and at least match. Thank goodness they have Cathro

No problem agreeing with all of that. Maybe they're hoping their current saviour will never want the cash back?

I guess that as Hibernian Football Club as an entity pays its way and has all the infrastructure in place the HSL platform could be the wrong one to use to go to the fans in a similar vein to the FOH effort.

RyeSloan
19-07-2017, 01:02 PM
No problem agreeing with all of that. Maybe they're hoping their current saviour will never want the cash back?

I guess that as Hibernian Football Club as an entity pays its way and has all the infrastructure in place the HSL platform could be the wrong one to use to go to the fans in a similar vein to the FOH effort.

In its current guise I think you are correct.

This thread shows there is a demand for something 'more' and that appears to be a managers fund of some sort. This may be difficult with the current remit being to buy shares but Insee no reason why both can't be incorporated into one structure.

Hopefully HSL will get the help it needs and we can all pull together to create something that gets more members and some critical mass behind it in terms of the monthly DD's.

Keith_M
19-07-2017, 01:06 PM
Have to say I think you are wrong and Ozy is correct

My recollection of the proposal is that there were to be a capped amount of shares available which would reduce the STF/Petrie holding to 51% when fully subscribed.


:agree:

That's exactly what the intention was. The number of new shares to be released have a maximum limit (the equivelant of 49% of total shareholdings) and all money raised from the sale of new shares is being used for the benfit of the club, not going into someone else's pocket.

If anyone does want to have a controlling interest in the club, they'll have to buy out STF's holding company.

Arch Stanton
19-07-2017, 01:50 PM
In its current guise I think you are correct.

This thread shows there is a demand for something 'more' and that appears to be a managers fund of some sort. This may be difficult with the current remit being to buy shares but Insee no reason why both can't be incorporated into one structure.

Hopefully HSL will get the help it needs and we can all pull together to create something that gets more members and some critical mass behind it in terms of the monthly DD's.

If HSL was doing it's job then you would know that every cent that goes into HSL is spent on playing staff. At the same time it increases fan ownership - two sides of the same coin!

Now FoH can subsidise the club OR it can buy shares - one or the other! For some reason OfficialHSL thinks that this is the gold standard we should be aiming for and that to achieve this we should downplay one of our two big selling points.

So, HSL has a better product which isn't selling as well. However they make no attempt to 'sell' themselves, so is it any wonder?

RyeSloan
19-07-2017, 02:04 PM
If HSL was doing it's job then you would know that every cent that goes into HSL is spent on playing staff. At the same time it increases fan ownership - two sides of the same coin!

Now FoH can subsidise the club OR it can buy shares - one or the other! For some reason OfficialHSL thinks that this is the gold standard we should be aiming for and that to achieve this we should downplay one of our two big selling points.

So, HSL has a better product which isn't selling as well. However they make no attempt to 'sell' themselves, so is it any wonder?

I know that every cent raised is used to buy shares which results in income for the club...I assume the club have given a commitment that this money is used towards the first team.

I think that's pretty clear to most folk.

I was merely suggesting that it may be time for HSL to widen its remit based on some of the feedback suggested on this thread...rather being just being a share buying mechanism it could broaden itself into a managers fund vehicle. Share purchases could and should still be a part of that but it would move HSL away from its rather narrow focus and maybe broaden its appeal.

Not quite sure why HSL as a whole is such a thorny issue to be honest. It's very straight forward what it does just now and has scope to do even more...why that doesn't have the support of every Hibs fan (whether they contribute or not) leaves me a bit lost.

BSEJVT
19-07-2017, 02:11 PM
I have been very critical of HSL on this and previous HSL related threads for one reason and one reason alone and that is that we must beat or match the funding that FOH provide to them or give ourselves every chance of doing so.

The present set up, administration and skill sets of those involved patently does not do that and needs substantively rethought.

It gives me no pleasure criticising people giving up their time on the clubs behalf, but things cannot continue as they are and if that criticism and others comments on it and discussion of the issue are the catalyst that lights the touch paper to the re-launch or revamping of HSL to the clubs benefit then it is a price worth paying.

I am sick to death or their having a financial advantage over us and whether that is through fair means or foul the result at least in so far as short term results on the park are concerned is to our detriment.

We have simply got to raise far more than we presently do.

Perhaps controversially, fan ownership isn't of that much interest to me beyond that which is required to obtain a blocking vote to anything to our future detriment which might arise. I know of others who feel the same.

I wonder if a sister arrangement that raised money purely for the managers budget that could continue ad finitum might be appealing to some to for whatever reason HSL may not appeal?

If it is it exists in the form of KFK and even if the club wanted to substantially increase the price beyond a certain number of seats it would still be a win win situation as crowds and backing for the team would go up and we would be helping recruit the next generation of supporters from a catchment of people who might not either engage or be able to engage with the club.

Arch Stanton
19-07-2017, 02:20 PM
I know that every cent raised is used to buy shares which results in income for the club...I assume the club have given a commitment that this money is used towards the first team.

I think that's pretty clear to most folk.

I was merely suggesting that it may be time for HSL to widen its remit based on some of the feedback suggested on this thread...rather being just being a share buying mechanism it could broaden itself into a managers fund vehicle. Share purchases could and should still be a part of that but it would move HSL away from its rather narrow focus and maybe broaden its appeal.

Not quite sure why HSL as a whole is such a thorny issue to be honest. It's very straight forward what it does just now and has scope to do even more...why that doesn't have the support of every Hibs fan (whether they contribute or not) leaves me a bit lost.

I contribute to HSL but haven't bothered clalming my certificate, so in my case I am just supplying funds. Since that money goes to the manager there is no need for HSL to change focus, is there?

RyeSloan
19-07-2017, 02:58 PM
I contribute to HSL but haven't bothered clalming my certificate, so in my case I am just supplying funds. Since that money goes to the manager there is no need for HSL to change focus, is there?

I do exactly the same as you but as I said the responses on this thread and those like it previously would suggest otherwise in terms of its focus and remit.

One thing is for sure is that it is not achieving its potential with only 1,600 members so something needs to change if we want HSL to provide larger and more meaningful inflows to the club.

To some degree it seems the whole share concept is actually the thing that is hurting it..wether that's through people being unable to fully understand what that means, or they don't like the lack of individuals having a direct call on the shares their funds but or whatever this has proven to be controversial from the start. I'm not saying I fully understand why but even on this thread we have had claims of scam etc.

Ozyhibby
19-07-2017, 03:12 PM
I just think it's great that it's being discussed and people are thinking about how it can be taken forward. There is massive potential there to grow HSL.
The threat that FoH poses means that we will have to act sooner rather than later.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Arch Stanton
19-07-2017, 04:21 PM
I do exactly the same as you but as I said the responses on this thread and those like it previously would suggest otherwise in terms of its focus and remit.

One thing is for sure is that it is not achieving its potential with only 1,600 members so something needs to change if we want HSL to provide larger and more meaningful inflows to the club.

To some degree it seems the whole share concept is actually the thing that is hurting it..wether that's through people being unable to fully understand what that means, or they don't like the lack of individuals having a direct call on the shares their funds but or whatever this has proven to be controversial from the start. I'm not saying I fully understand why but even on this thread we have had claims of scam etc.

Well, if it's any comfort, I'm jumping up and down (not litterally!) wanting things to change too.

I don't accept that HSL can sit back and accept poor performance just because thry are containing costs.

No reason why volunteers can't be talented people and I see no reason why HSL aren't reaching out for them to help run the thing better.

The singing section needed good singers and HSL needs good organisers.

NAE NOOKIE
19-07-2017, 05:01 PM
Nae Nookie

Rest assured, your current Board of Directors share your view. We would never suggest or support a level of shareholding that we feel our Membership could not support. With our current level of Membership a controlling stake would be unthinkable. Our "friends" across the City are in a different position and have demonstrated a willingness to take financial responsibility for their Club. Our principal aim it to accept some financial responsibility. We cannot as fans just keep hoping that someone else will shoulder that entire responsibility.

I am aware that HSL cant achieve the whole of the 51% shareholding in the club available for purchase, there are too many individual shareholders for that to happen, but it could well end up the case that HSL become the second biggest shareholder in the club .... however, once again that raises the question of what the intentions are for the 49% owned currently by STF and RP.

The last two sentences of your response go straight to the crux of the matter and my concern regarding the eventual outcome of the initiative by Hibs to put 51% of the club into the hands of its supporters. Before a ball was even kicked this season I had spent £360 on a season ticket and £45 on a replica strip, daft auld sod that I am :greengrin ...... If the club plays 22 home games this season in petrol alone I will spend £220 .... That means supporting Hibs will have cost me at a bare minimum £625 .... that's before cup games ( I've already paid £15 for Montrose ) pies, Bovril and whatever else I will purchase in the ground .... my outlay from my meagre resources following Hibs every season easily outstrips £1000 and I don't even have kids to pay for.

If you ask me an outlay like that can hardly be classed as 'not shouldering financial responsibility' when it comes to the wellbeing of Hibernian football club and I'm willing to bet a huge number of Hibs fans will feel the same hearing that they need to shoulder more of the financial burden. Fans putting in money through HSL on an ongoing basis is fine, but as I have said before, that is not and is never going to be a recipe for a club in a position to challenge the likes of Celtic, The Rangers, Aberdeen or even Hearts.

In my opinion the door must be left open for outside investment ...... like it or not I cant see any prospect that a person or corporate entity looking to get involved in football club ownership would see a club they can never actually own being an attractive proposition .... by going down this route we will be turning something that I admit is unlikely into an impossibility and I cant see how that can be good for this club long term .... IMO the idea that a successful club can be financed from our limited number of supporters is fanciful romantic nonsense ... I take no pleasure in saying that, but I'm convinced its true.

I know I have banged this drum to death on this forum in numerous posts, but I have yet to see a convincing argument against it. The object should always have been enough of the club in supporters hands to secure its future as a football club whose assets could never be sold from under it and to preserve its identity and place in the community.

Here is something HSL should be concentrating on now and something that as far as I'm aware has never been discussed by either the club or HSL since this whole thing started that I am aware of ........ What is the vision of what Hibernian Football Club will be once 51% of it is in the hands of a few thousand people, none of whom are millionaires? .... How will the club under this model raise the amount of cash required to compete with clubs who have a rich owner like Aberdeen willing to put his personal wealth into it? ..... will we see success as just existing as we watch other clubs with outside investment we cant hope to attract put players on the pitch we can only dream of signing?

madhatter
19-07-2017, 05:28 PM
Not being funny but could this fundraising scheme have a smaller hype or be less accessible to most Hibs fans? I think the answer is no. Case and point, this video isn't even on, or mentioned on, the HibernianSupporters.co.uk website (as far as I can see!)

I stopped my monthly subscription to HSL for various reasons but one of them is how dire the communication is, Charlie Reid doing interviews every now-and-again asking for money is verging on this being like Ewan McGregor on Unicef. We have wealthy Hibs fans on this HSL board and also wealthy Hibs fans who are members of HSL, how can they not collectively invest a little bit of their money to actually make this a successful scheme? Marketing costs etc. is an excuse in my opinion, decent website with in-built payment features and scope for expansion costs very very little.

Wonder if Comic Relief would raise £50-70 million or more every year if it was just a rumour online rather than being properly advertised/marketed....I know this isn't charity and the cause is different but Hibs is a big deal for most fans and giving a bit more is something many would happily do if they knew of this and other things. As pointed out many Hibs fans probably don't even know about HSL which is scandalous.

Also, if we have a target amount, why can't we have a similar percentage indicator as JustGiving on our HSL website. Momentum on fundraising is a wonderful thing.

Anyway, each to their own but I think HSL need to give people something to believe in rather than just a short video from Charlie Reid (50 secs).

We do need to raise more funds but HSL need to do a hell of a lot more...