New Dr Who

[HibbyDave]

Jodie Whittaker

[Colr]

Stephen Whittaker?

[BH Hibs]

Luke Berry

[Hermit Crab]

This thread is for the dug out surely?

[Greentinted]

No really a fan tbh but the Daily Mail seeth is delicious...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4701252/Jodie-Whittaker-woman-play-Doctor-Who.html?ito=social-facebook

[grunt]

No really a fan tbh but the Daily Mail seeth is delicious...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4701252/Jodie-Whittaker-woman-play-Doctor-Who.html?ito=social-facebookGood grief! The reactions of some of those commenting! I no longer understand the thinking of many of the people who live in these islands.

[easty]

Can women be doctors? This is ridiculous.

[barcahibs]

Stephen Whittaker?

Absolute disgrace. The boy has just signed a contract with us - he needs to concentrate on his football, he can save the world in his own time.

I've emailed the club.

[pollution]

Jodie Whittaker I am 57 and I don't care! Ditto the new Bond. BBC totems.

[Mon Dieu4]

I actually really like Dr Who, it's harmless fun, I don't mind that a shapeshifting alien is going to be a woman this time, twitter has went into overdrive about it on all sides, didn't realise Dr Who was so popular :faf:

[Colr]

No really a fan tbh but the Daily Mail seeth is delicious...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4701252/Jodie-Whittaker-woman-play-Doctor-Who.html?ito=social-facebook

It's hilarious! The Telegraph is much the same!

Brexit Britain at it's most pompous

[Colr]

Can women be doctors? This is ridiculous.

Apparently they can even drive trains! Who'd have thunk it!

[overdrive]

Can women be doctors? This is ridiculous.

Surely it'll have to be renamed 'Nurse Who' ;-)

[SuperAllyMcleod]

I find it a bit sad that this is even news - "job given to a woman" - it's the 21st century, the notion that certain jobs cannot be done by women should have been consigned to history by now.

I don't usually watch but I may do so just to ensure that the ratings don't give the detractors a chance to say "we told you so".

[Colr]

It seems to be traditional for the Doctor to live in North London - at any one time, we can have 3 doctors and the master in my neighbourhood.

I wonder when she's moving in.

[CapitalGreen]

Surely it'll have to be renamed 'Nurse Who' ;-)

http://images.dailystar.co.uk/dynamic/47/photos/257000/620x/jiim_davidson-365086.jpg

[MyJo]

So Doctor Who.......

is an alien....cool
is thousands of years old......neat
can regenerate multiple times and gets a new body and personality every time......wow
is a time-traveller.....thats incredible
has a spaceship that looks like a phonebox.......what fun
but its actually really really massive inside.......nice!
and it also changes its interior when the doctor regenerates.......makes sense
saves the world using a sonic screwdriver.....a what?
looks like a really fat pen with a light and goes "woo-ee-ooo"........strange but acceptable
The doctor is super smart, protects the human race from evil aliens, dislikes violence and guns........sounds like a real hero
and then there are the companions.........who?
the companions that travel with the doctor, the current one is a black lesbian........nice to have a bit of diversity.
Oh and the next regeneration makes The Doctor a woman.........HOLD ON, THATS OUTRAGEOUS AND TOTALLY WRONG!!!!!!!!

people are s**t they really are

[Hibrandenburg]

So Doctor Who.......

is an alien....cool
is thousands of years old......neat
can regenerate multiple times and gets a new body and personality every time......wow
is a time-traveller.....thats incredible
has a spaceship that looks like a phonebox.......what fun
but its actually really really massive inside.......nice!
and it also changes its interior when the doctor regenerates.......makes sense
saves the world using a sonic screwdriver.....a what?
looks like a really fat pen with a light and goes "woo-ee-ooo"........strange but acceptable
The doctor is super smart, protects the human race from evil aliens, dislikes violence and guns........sounds like a real hero
and then there are the companions.........who?
the companions that travel with the doctor, the current one is a black lesbian........nice to have a bit of diversity.
Oh and the next regeneration makes The Doctor a woman.........HOLD ON, THATS OUTRAGEOUS AND TOTALLY WRONG!!!!!!!!

people are s**t they really are

Exactly mý thoughts and have posted similar elsewhere.

[Pretty Boy]

No really a fan tbh but the Daily Mail seeth is delicious...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4701252/Jodie-Whittaker-woman-play-Doctor-Who.html?ito=social-facebook

This guy is the voice of reason:

This is a show about an alien whose race changes bodies bodies when they die, but no this one isn't allowed to be female ever. It's a tv show people.

He'll be on about 20k thumbs down by midnight. I've never really watched Dr Who, not my thing, but can't see the big deal about it being a woman tbh. Does it matter?

[heretoday]

It's PC gone mad.

The whole universe must be laughing at us.

[Jonnyboy]

I'm quite chuffed for her. I thought she was brilliant in Broadchurch

[Pete]

They've only done this so they can pay the Doctor 10% less.

[Hibrandenburg]

I see the predictable Tardis parking funnies are already doing the rounds.

[heretoday]

The beeb must be delighted with the furore they have created by splashing this all over the news bulletins. It's pretty cynical really.

[patch1875]

Can't believe some of the reactions to this.

Its a kids programme!!!!!

[Colr]

Can't believe some of the reactions to this.

Its a kids programme!!!!!

Indeed. Britain benighted masses are seething. Some may have even exploded with hyper- apoplexic rage.

[Onceinawhile]

Disgusted that almost 8% of the people who have played Dr who are female!

Where's the equality towards men? Are we supposed to deal with a meagre 92%?

Next they'll be wanting the vote.

[Colr]

I'm interested in the power and influence of the "PC Brigade" that the Mail readers refer to.

How does one sign up? Does it have a provisional wing?

[Pete]

I'm interested in the power and influence of the "PC Brigade" that the Mail readers refer to.

How does one sign up? Does it have a provisional wing?

It does. That's the "PC brigade gone mad" brigade.

[Pretty Boy]

I've often wondered how one joins the 'PC Brigade'. It's quite appealing to me tbh.

[Scouse Hibee]

Wait until the PC brigade (whoever they are) find out that God is a women and baby Jesus's was born with both male and female organs!

[Hibee87]

Or that the next james bond is black/a female (which i do think would be stupid, but i wouldnt be up in arms about)

[Mon Dieu4]

Or that the next james bond is black/a female (which i do think would be stupid, but i wouldnt be up in arms about)

Bond would be different, you cant make him female he is Flemings creation and to change that so drastically would piss all over his legacy imo

Have no issues with him being black though, Iris Elba would be an amazing Bond

[Hibee87]

Bond would be different, you cant make him female he is Flemings creation and to change that so drastically would piss all over his legacy imo

Have no issues with him being black though, Iris Elba would be an amazing Bond

Elba is my shout for next bond......a female one would be wrong

[grunt]

Bond would be different, you cant make him female ...
Have no issues with him being black though ...:confused:

[Mon Dieu4]

:confused:

In my opinion you can take a wee bit artistic licence on the source material like Jack Reacher being played by Tom Cruise etc when he is described as a hulking giant but to make him a different sex is another thing completely

[grunt]

In my opinion you can take a wee bit artistic licence on the source material like Jack Reacher being played by Tom Cruise etc when he is described as a hulking giant but to make him a different sex is another thing completelyFair enough. Bond's character was based on people that Fleming knew in University and during the war. Given that there were women spies during WWII I'd have thought there was actually a good argument for having Bond as a woman.

But it's all just conjecture.

I still don't understand the uproar about Dr Who. It's not as if there aren't far more important issues to be upset about.

[s.a.m]

In my opinion you can take a wee bit artistic licence on the source material like Jack Reacher being played by Tom Cruise etc when he is described as a hulking giant but to make him a different sex is another thing completely

Not sure why. Regeneration / metamorphosis is a key feature of the character. You may have a point if Dr Who was one character throughout,played by different actors as people moved on, but surely it's more of an entity, than a specific character?

[Mon Dieu4]

Not sure why. Regeneration / metamorphosis is a key feature of the character. You may have a point if Dr Who was one character throughout,played by different actors as people moved on, but surely it's more of an entity, than a specific character?

I have no issues at all with Dr Who being a woman, it's a regenerating alien, my previous point was about Bond

[Hibrandenburg]

Elba is my shout for next bond......a female one would be wrong

That would be like having a male Miss Marples. The Dr is different, theoretically he/she could even regenerate as a child.

[pollution]

The beeb must be delighted with the furore they have created by splashing this all over the news bulletins. It's pretty cynical really.
Spot on. My point in a nutshell. Do the BBC themselves commisssion Dr Who and reap the profits? If so, good for them.

With Bond however, it is a totally commercial enterprise separate to the BBC yet the latter gives Bond massive free publicity-- why?

And now we have to sign in to I Player to watch what I have already paid for via my license...

[Hibee87]

That would be like having a male Miss Marples. The Dr is different, theoretically he/she could even regenerate as a child.

I totally agree. My statement was more about the rumours that the next bond could be a woman, or heaven forbid a black person. As others said to avoid confusion doctor who being a woman is well within the realms of possibiliry based on the characters ability to regenerate.

Bond being black, again shouldnt even be considered for anythi g other than the actor. Idris elba is a fantastic actor, one of my favourite. The skin colour being mentioned makes me cringe as in this day and age it shuldnt even be mebtioned. But we all know sadly it will.

Then there is the feminazis who come out with why cant bond be a woman, what sort of sexisit woman hating rhought process is that? (Im sure it was the bbc that had a bit about female bond and the comments section were unbelievable.) My whole point on that part was the pc gone made and i genuinly wouldnt belive it if they did hire a woman to show they are not sexist. Thats pc gone mad.

[beensaidbefore]

Elba is my shout for next bond......a female one would be wrong


Why Elba? This is banded about quite regularly.

Edit. On this thread too. What is the obsession with elba?

[Pete]

Why Elba? This is banded about quite regularly.

Edit. On this thread too. What is the obsession with elba?

Is it maybe because he's black and people are desperate to see a black Bond for whatever reason?

[beensaidbefore]

Is it maybe because he's black and people are desperate to see a black Bond for whatever reason?

Possibly. Would be a bit sad if thats the case.

[Pete]

Possibly. Would be a bit sad if thats the case.

I think its developed from "black guys shouldn't be discounted" to "it's time for a black Bond" in some people's eyes.

Personally, I couldn't care less about his skin colour and think that all discrimination, even discrimination of the positive variety, is wrong.

IMO it's time for a fat Bond...James Corden.

[Hibee87]

Why Elba? This is banded about quite regularly.

Edit. On this thread too. What is the obsession with elba?

Because i think he would make a great bond. He is a great actor and seems to have that suave look about him that you would associate with a bond. The woman also seem to love him which again seems to be a tick box for a bond (at least in recent times) Id much prefer him to tom hardy who has also been heavily linked.

Can i ask why you think he wouldnt make a good bond?

[Pete]

Because i think he would make a great bond. He is a great actor and seems to have that suave look about him that you would associate with a bond. The woman also seem to love him which again seems to be a tick box for a bond (at least in recent times) Id much prefer him to tom hardy who has also been heavily linked.

Can i ask why you think he wouldnt make a good bond?

You could say the same as you've said in your first paragraph about any of the actors in the frame I suppose.

It's all about opinions and I doubt any of them are based on race.

[beensaidbefore]

Because i think he would make a great bond. He is a great actor and seems to have that suave look about him that you would associate with a bond. The woman also seem to love him which again seems to be a tick box for a bond (at least in recent times) Id much prefer him to tom hardy who has also been heavily linked.

Can i ask why you think he wouldnt make a good bond?

Iv not seen him in much to be fair. But he hasnt ever struck me as the james bond type. I dont really think Daniel Craig fits either, dont think he has the smooth charm of Connery or Moore. Brosnan fitted the bill in the posh stakes, but didnt quite convince me that he was tough enough. Bond needs to be able to fly under the radar and im pretty sure Idris Elba would get noticed in just about every room he walked into.

[Hibrandenburg]

Iv not seen him in much to be fair. But he hasnt ever struck me as the james bond type. I dont really think Daniel Craig fits either, dont think he has the smooth charm of Connery or Moore. Brosnan fitted the bill in the posh stakes, but didnt quite convince me that he was tough enough. Bond needs to be able to fly under the radar and im pretty sure Idris Elba would get noticed in just about every room he walked into.

Every Bond gets recognised when he walks into a room, his nemesis is always delighted to see him before making the ultimate mistake of revealing his evil plan and enabling Bond to throw a spanner in the works. Integration will never be fully achievable until all prejudices relating to race and skin colour are irrelevant.

[easty]

I think its developed from "black guys shouldn't be discounted" to "it's time for a black Bond" in some people's eyes.

Personally, I couldn't care less about his skin colour and think that all discrimination, even discrimination of the positive variety, is wrong.

IMO it's time for a fat Bond...James Corden.

I'd rather Jar Jar Binks played Bond, than James Corden did.

The whole "Black Bond" thing is all a bit weird to me. Why not an Indian Bond or a Chinese Bond, they're also minority's in acting who don't get as many lead roles as white people. Or...why not just keep hiring white guys to play James Bond...a character who's always been a white guy. It's not discrimination to rule out non-white guys from playing a white guy. You wouldn't hire some long haired hippy guy to play Bond either, cos that's no what Bond is like.

[Future17]

I'd rather Jar Jar Binks played Bond, than James Corden did.

The whole "Black Bond" thing is all a bit weird to me. Why not an Indian Bond or a Chinese Bond, they're also minority's in acting who don't get as many lead roles as white people. Or...why not just keep hiring white guys to play James Bond...a character who's always been a white guy. It's not discrimination to rule out non-white guys from playing a white guy. You wouldn't hire some long haired hippy guy to play Bond either, cos that's no what Bond is like.

I think the argument is it's not written anywhere in Fleming's work that Bond is white, whereas other aspects of his appearance (and the fact that he's packing a *****) are clearly stated.

Having said that, I've never read any of the books, so I don't know if that's true.

[easty]

I think the argument is it's not written anywhere in Fleming's work that Bond is white, whereas other aspects of his appearance (and the fact that he's packing a *****) are clearly stated.

Having said that, I've never read any of the books, so I don't know if that's true.

Nowhere in the rhyme Humpty Dumpty does it mention an egg, but we've all known Humpty Dumpty as an egg for so long now that if all of a sudden it was changed to a bottle, it'd seem stupid.

James Bond is white. Over 20 films he's been white, he's white.

If there was a new series of Luther, and they cast a white guy to play Luther, I'd think that was equally as ridiculous.


The Dr Who thing, no reason a women can't play Dr Who, it's an alien who changes the way it looks every so often. It can be male, female, black, white, green, a siamese twin, whatever.

[Colr]

You could say the same as you've said in your first paragraph about any of the actors in the frame I suppose.

It's all about opinions and I doubt any of them are based on race.

Bond is a long running franchise with each movie costing about $650m to make. Its been running on a formula for decades. When investors put that money up they want to have some confidence about the product and its likely return. Bond must be seen as a sure fire investment so will attract that finance at reasoable rates. I dout, for that reason, that anyone will want to change the formula and introduce risk.

Dr Who's great innovation was that the premise allows the writers to take it any place at any time and gives ultimate flexibility in the character composition - and it paid for by the BBC from our license fees which give the makers more flexibility.

[Colr]

Nowhere in the rhyme Humpty Dumpty does it mention an egg, but we've all known Humpty Dumpty as an egg for so long now that if all of a sudden it was changed to a bottle, it'd seem stupid.

.

Humpty Dumpty was an cannon in Colchester.


Just saying!

[easty]

Humpty Dumpty was an cannon in Colchester.


Just saying!

I beg to differ

18918

[Colr]

I beg to differ

18918

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2013/04/the-origin-of-humpty-dumpty/

Other versions of the truth are available!! Brandy boiled withe ale sounds pretty vile.

[easty]

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2013/04/the-origin-of-humpty-dumpty/

Other versions of the truth are available!! Brandy boiled withe ale sounds pretty vile.

No, I am aware of the cannon story, but Humpty Dumpty, as we know it nowadays, is still an egg.

Quite like the look of that website though, might have a wee read. :aok:

[Hibee87]

Not sure my point got across very well.

People are complaining there is a female doctor who. Even some main stream news outlets. It's ridiculous for the many reasons stated.

My point I was trying to make r.e bond is you will always get people who find things to complain about. And you will always get racists. But why does our society and news outlet have to encourage it?

If idris Elba gets the job of bond. Or any other actor who is not a white person the news will refer to it as that xxx is the first black bond. Why does the skin colour have to mentioned? If it was a Jewish actor would the headline read xxx is the first Jewish actor to play bond? No.

I'm noticing it more and more (not saying it hasn't always happened, it's just I'm noticing it more.)

It works both ways of course. You don't have to like idris Elba as an actor or a bond and want someone else to do it. But as soon the skin colour is used as an argument it's racist

I don't get the reference to humpty dumpty being an egg. James bond is a human. Only a human would get the part. So changing humpty to a bottle in a nursery rhyme is neither here nor there

[easty]

Not sure my point got across very well.

People are complaining there is a female doctor who. Even some main stream news outlets. It's ridiculous for the many reasons stated.

My point I was trying to make r.e bond is you will always get people who find things to complain about. And you will always get racists. But why does our society and news outlet have to encourage it?

If idris Elba gets the job of bond. Or any other actor who is not a white person the news will refer to it as that xxx is the first black bond. Why does the skin colour have to mentioned? If it was a Jewish actor would the headline read xxx is the first Jewish actor to play bond? No.

I'm noticing it more and more (not saying it hasn't always happened, it's just I'm noticing it more.)

It works both ways of course. You don't have to like idris Elba as an actor or a bond and want someone else to do it. But as soon the skin colour is used as an argument it's racist

I don't get the reference to humpty dumpty being an egg. James bond is a human. Only a human would get the part. So changing humpty to a bottle in a nursery rhyme is neither here nor there

The reference to Humpty Dumpty comes from the fact that nowhere in the rhyme does it say Humpty Dumpty is an egg, and nowhere in James Bond books (apparantly...I've not read the books though) does it say he's a white guy. Despite these two things, we know Humpty Dumpty as an egg, and we know the character of James Bond is a white guy.

Thanks for pointing out that only a human would get the part though. That's cleared up a load of confusion on my part. :aok:

The bit in bold...are you saying it's racist for me to say I don't think Idris Elba should be Bond for the single reason that he's black? I might be reading what you're saying the wrong way.

[Future17]

The reference to Humpty Dumpty comes from the fact that nowhere in the rhyme does it say Humpty Dumpty is an egg, and nowhere in James Bond books (apparantly...I've not read the books though) does it say he's a white guy. Despite these two things, we know Humpty Dumpty as an egg, and we know the character of James Bond is a white guy.

If I saw a visual depiction of the Humpty Dumpty rhyme and an egg had not been cast in the part of Humpty Dumpty, I might be surprised initially, but in no way would it alter my understanding of the story being told. There are a whole array of breakable objects which could play the part of Humpty Dumpty without altering the narrative.

Is the same not true for a black actor playing Bond? If it wouldn't alter the narrative or affect the viewer's understanding of the story being told, why does it matter that we're used to seeing him as white?

I do understand it can be jarring when a different actor plays a familiar character, but that's been going on with Bond for decades. If actors of different heights, weights, face shapes, hairstyles, hair colours etc. can play Bond, why can't an actor of different skin colour?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

If Idris Elba fell off a wall would all the kings horses and all the kings men be able to put Idris together again? I'm not sure! They could try using UniBond I suppose.

[easty]

If I saw a visual depiction of the Humpty Dumpty rhyme and an egg had not been cast in the part of Humpty Dumpty, I might be surprised initially, but in no way would it alter my understanding of the story being told. There are a whole array of breakable objects which could play the part of Humpty Dumpty without altering the narrative.

Is the same not true for a black actor playing Bond? If it wouldn't alter the narrative or affect the viewer's understanding of the story being told, why does it matter that we're used to seeing him as white?

I do understand it can be jarring when a different actor plays a familiar character, but that's been going on with Bond for decades. If actors of different heights, weights, face shapes, hairstyles, hair colours etc. can play Bond, why can't an actor of different skin colour?

But an egg has been cast in the part of Humpty Dumpty, that's my point. Humpty Dumpty is now synonymous with being an egg.

Your last point, I disagree...actors of vastly different heights and weights and hairstyles haven't, and shouldn't, play Bond. Mini Me off of Austin Powers, Jonah Hill, any guy with a pony tail. None of those should play Bond, cos that's not what Bond is like.

[Pretty Boy]

If Idris Elba fell off a wall would all the kings horses and all the kings men be able to put Idris together again? I'm not sure! They could try using UniBond I suppose.

Only Avon Barksdale has the power to make Idris Elba.

[Future17]

But an egg has been cast in the part of Humpty Dumpty, that's my point. Humpty Dumpty is now synonymous with being an egg.

I understand the point, but any new piece of work based on the character of James Bond or Humpty Dumpty, is an interpretation of the original work. The original HD doesn't refer to an egg; the original JB (as far as we know) doesn't refer to skin colour.

Accordingly, if it wasn't apparently important to the original authors, why should it be important to anyone who reinterprets the work now?


Your last point, I disagree...actors of vastly different heights and weights and hairstyles haven't, and shouldn't, play Bond. Mini Me off of Austin Powers, Jonah Hill, any guy with a pony tail. None of those should play Bond, cos that's not what Bond is like.

At their respective times of playing Bond, Sean Connery looked nothing like Daniel Craig; David Niven looked nothing like George Lazenby. The appearance of Bond is irrelevant provided it fits with the narrative.

[Scouse Hibee]

James Bond is white and a good swimmer, a black version would not be so proficient in the water. For that reason alone a black actor can never be considered.

[easty]

I understand the point, but any new piece of work based on the character of James Bond or Humpty Dumpty, is an interpretation of the original work. The original HD doesn't refer to an egg; the original JB (as far as we know) doesn't refer to skin colour.

Accordingly, if it wasn't apparently important to the original authors, why should it be important to anyone who reinterprets the work now?



At their respective times of playing Bond, Sean Connery looked nothing like Daniel Craig; David Niven looked nothing like George Lazenby. The appearance of Bond is irrelevant provided it fits with the narrative.

A quick google search just now suggests that there are a couple of 'Bond is white' bits in the books.

Thunderball -


He had dark, rather cruel good looks and very clear blue-gray eyes that were now observing her inspection sardonically. A scar down his right cheek showed pale against a tan so mild that he must have only recently come to the island


The skin beneath the eyes that now slowly, mildly, surveyed his colleagues was unpouched. There was no sign of debauchery, illness, or old age on the large, white, bland face under the square, wiry black crew-cut.

The Man With the Golden Gun


Bond's face was white and bathed in sweat.


“Rass, man! Ah doan talk wid buckra.” The expression “rass” is Jamaican for “shove it.” “Buckra” is a tough colloquialism for “white man.” Bond said equably, “I thought part of your religion was to love thy neighbour.”

I get what you say about how Connery doesn't look like Craig. Facially no, they're far from twins, but they fit the profiles. But, I don't even count David Niven as Bond in the same way as the others.

[CropleyWasGod]

James Bond is white and a good swimmer, a black version would not be so proficient in the water. For that reason alone a black actor can never be considered.

He's also good in bed, apparently.

For that reason alone, an Englishman should never be considered.

:greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

Bond would be different, you cant make him female he is Flemings creation and to change that so drastically would piss all over his legacy imo

Have no issues with him being black though, Iris Elba would be an amazing Bond

So the new Bond will be female :wink:

[Moulin Yarns]

But an egg has been cast in the part of Humpty Dumpty, that's my point. Humpty Dumpty is now synonymous with being an egg.

Your last point, I disagree...actors of vastly different heights and weights and hairstyles haven't, and shouldn't, play Bond. Mini Me off of Austin Powers, Jonah Hill, any guy with a pony tail. None of those should play Bond, cos that's not what Bond is like.

Tom Cruise as Jack Reacher??


It is a casting decision that has long puzzled fans and critics: how did Tom Cruise, who is said to be 5ft 7in (1.70 metres), come to appear as the 6ft 5in (1.95 metre) Jack Reacher (https://www.theguardian.com/film/jack-reacher) in the film adaptations of Lee Child’s crime novels?

[easty]

Tom Cruise as Jack Reacher??

I didn't like it. It was a nonsense casting decision. Huge dangerous looking guy played by wee dingle.

Love the books.

[Future17]

A quick google search just now suggests that there are a couple of 'Bond is white' bits in the books.[B]

Fair enough. I think the argument can still be made that casting a black man rather than a white man (all other considerations aside) would not affect the narrative in any way though.

If memory serves, Craig's Casino Royale was intended as a reboot/start from scratch in the franchise in terms of the timeline of Bond's life. If they were ever going to cast a non-white actor, that may have been the time.


I get what you say about how Connery doesn't look like Craig. Facially no, they're far from twins, but they fit the profiles. But, I don't even count David Niven as Bond in the same way as the others.

I suppose it depends what you consider the profile to be.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

They're both just pretend, it doesnae really matter does it?

[Mibbes Aye]

But an egg has been cast in the part of Humpty Dumpty, that's my point. Humpty Dumpty is now synonymous with being an egg.

Your last point, I disagree...actors of vastly different heights and weights and hairstyles haven't, and shouldn't, play Bond. Mini Me off of Austin Powers, Jonah Hill, any guy with a pony tail. None of those should play Bond, cos that's not what Bond is like.

It's fatuous to mention the characters you did but there's a bigger point - I can't believe you went to the trouble of trying to find narrative in Fleming's text that describes Bond as white, that's taking it far too seriously.

And if you are saying we shouldn't be messing with Fleming's description then surely that means we can't have new Bond storylines and we certainly can't have them in the current times. By your logic (and I use the word loosely :greengrin) Bond films would have to be stuck in some 1950s timewarp, so we can stay true to what Fleming wrote :rolleyes:

[easty]

It's fatuous to mention the characters you did but there's a bigger point - I can't believe you went to the trouble of trying to find narrative in Fleming's text that describes Bond as white, that's taking it far too seriously.

And if you are saying we shouldn't be messing with Fleming's description then surely that means we can't have new Bond storylines and we certainly can't have them in the current times. By your logic (and I use the word loosely :greengrin) Bond films would have to be stuck in some 1950s timewarp, so we can stay true to what Fleming wrote :rolleyes:

Went to the trouble - I googled "does it say James Bond is white in the books" then took an answer off the first site I went into. It wasn't much trouble at all.

The character of James Bond is white. Idris Elba isnt white. Ergo, he shouldn't play Bond. How do I know Bond is white...well there's 25 odd films and he's white in them. Same applies to Indiana Jones, Captain Jack Sparrow and Wolverine.

If Matt Damon was being tipped in the press to play Apollo Creed in a Rocky remake, or play Alex Cross in a adaptation of a James Patterson book, I'd equally be saying it's nonsense.

I just dinnae understand why some people get so upset about this, all I'm saying is a real life black guy shouldn't play a fictional white guy.

[patch1875]

Early covers of Ian Fleming books had him as white and personally can't see him being anything else.

Idris I really like but he's probably now to old to be considered anymore as it looks like DC is doing a final one.

Nobody springs to mind anymore think it will end up a relative unknown to take it forward.

[Mibbes Aye]

Went to the trouble - I googled "does it say James Bond is white in the books" then took an answer off the first site I went into. It wasn't much trouble at all.

The character of James Bond is white. Idris Elba isnt white. Ergo, he shouldn't play Bond. How do I know Bond is white...well there's 25 odd films and he's white in them. Same applies to Indiana Jones, Captain Jack Sparrow and Wolverine.

If Matt Damon was being tipped in the press to play Apollo Creed in a Rocky remake, or play Alex Cross in a adaptation of a James Patterson book, I'd equally be saying it's nonsense.

I just dinnae understand why some people get so upset about this, all I'm saying is a real life black guy shouldn't play a fictional white guy.

And by your logic, the fictional white guy lives in the 1950s. So why should he feature in films set nowadays - I guess your point is he should be played by a white actor in his nineties?

[easty]

And by your logic, the fictional white guy lives in the 1950s. So why should he feature in films set nowadays - I guess your point is he should be played by a white actor in his nineties?

Go on then, tell me how that's my logic...

Tell me how me saying Bond is white in 25 films means everything he does should be set in the 50's.

Looking forward to what should be an interesting answer, cos I cannae work out how you got there at all.

[Mibbes Aye]

Go on then, tell me how that's my logic...

Tell me how me saying Bond is white in 25 films means everything he does should be set in the 50's.

Looking forward to what should be an interesting answer, cos I cannae work out how you got there at all.

You said that Fleming wrote Bond as white so he needed to continue to be white.

Fleming also wrote Bond as a character living in a certain time period. Surely that needs to stay the same as well?

Of course what's happened is that the production company have moved the story on, changed the time, changed the other characters - were you okay with M being a woman incidentally?

If everything else can change then surely Bond's skin colour can change too?

As it goes, I don't see Elba as making a good Bond, he just doesn't seem right to me but that's not because of his skin colour.

[easty]

You said that Fleming wrote Bond as white so he needed to continue to be white.

Fleming also wrote Bond as a character living in a certain time period. Surely that needs to stay the same as well?

Of course what's happened is that the production company have moved the story on, changed the time, changed the other characters - were you okay with M being a woman incidentally?

If everything else can change then surely Bond's skin colour can change too?

As it goes, I don't see Elba as making a good Bond, he just doesn't seem right to me but that's not because of his skin colour.

Times change, a person doesn't change from white to black though.

The character M isn't meant to be portraying the same person, or at least that's my understanding of it. Bond is Bond. M is whoever is filling that role.

[Mibbes Aye]

Times change, a person doesn't change from white to black though.

The character M isn't meant to be portraying the same person, or at least that's my understanding of it. Bond is Bond. M is whoever is filling that role.

It's really not that big a deal though is it?

No one else seems that worried about a black actor taking on the role, should the production company cast one.

If they do will you be launching a Keep Bond White campaign?

[easty]

It's really not that big a deal though is it?

No one else seems that worried about a black actor taking on the role, should the production company cast one.

If they do will you be launching a Keep Bond White campaign?

It's not a big deal no, nor is it a big deal to keep the character Bond as a white guy. I'm no even a big James Bond fan, would much rather see a new series of Luther and enjoy Idris Elba in that, than another Bond movie with whatever white guy gets cast as Bond.

I'm not in the slightest bit worried.

And aye, obviously I'll be having a campaign. I'm just going to turn my Free Deirdre Barlow t-shirt inside out and write Bond Isnae Black on it. Want in?

[Mibbes Aye]

It's not a big deal no, nor is it a big deal to keep the character Bond as a white guy. I'm no even a big James Bond fan, would much rather see a new series of Luther and enjoy Idris Elba in that, than another Bond movie with whatever white guy gets cast as Bond.

I'm not in the slightest bit worried.

And aye, obviously I'll be having a campaign. I'm just going to turn my Free Deirdre Barlow t-shirt inside out and write Bond Isnae Black on it. Want in?

:greengrin

[beensaidbefore]

Went to the trouble - I googled "does it say James Bond is white in the books" then took an answer off the first site I went into. It wasn't much trouble at all.

The character of James Bond is white. Idris Elba isnt white. Ergo, he shouldn't play Bond. How do I know Bond is white...well there's 25 odd films and he's white in them. Same applies to Indiana Jones, Captain Jack Sparrow and Wolverine.

If Matt Damon was being tipped in the press to play Apollo Creed in a Rocky remake, or play Alex Cross in a adaptation of a James Patterson book, I'd equally be saying it's nonsense.

I just dinnae understand why some people get so upset about this, all I'm saying is a real life black guy shouldn't play a fictional white guy.


Interesting to see there is reference to him being white. With that in mind i think you make a fair point re casting both in bond and other films.

Off the back of this i looked at the most recent census, and there are actually a lot more people of indian and pakistani descent living in Britain. Given the current climate of fear round muslim populations etc, it would possibly be more realistic to have an asian bond, as i bet we have plenty spies trying to infiltrate isis etc at the moment. If Elbas only in line because he is black, then that is actually racism too.

[Colr]

He's also good in bed, apparently.

For that reason alone, an Englishman should never be considered.

:greengrin

Yes, that came from his Scottish heritage.

[Scouse Hibee]

He's also good in bed, apparently.

For that reason alone, an Englishman should never be considered.

:greengrin

Do you have a lot of experience in bed with English men? ;-)

[Hibrandenburg]

He's also good in bed, apparently.

For that reason alone, an Englishman should never be considered.

:greengrin

:faf:

Racist

[Hibrandenburg]

They're both just pretend, it doesnae really matter does it?

Nail, head and hammer.

[MyJo]

Bond would not work as a female due to the nature of the character, he is an arrogant, smartarse, womanising douchebag. He is the epitome of an alpha male

In the older films this was meant to be a good thing as that what was expected of men, he was someone to look up to and admire. In the up-to-date films he is being portrayed as somewhat old-fashioned and out of touch due to these characteristics. A blunt instrument in a world of surgical precision in the modern, digital age but doing violent things for the right reasons.

A female character acting in the way that Bond does wouldn't work as well however there is nothing to suggest that Bond needs to be white, a british 40ish year old male character in 2017 can be played just as authentically by a black or asian actor as a white one. The Bond films are not linear, once a new actor takes over the role from Daniel craig they wont carry forward the storylines and arcs etc from the last few movies, it's a series of films that essentially reboots itself with each new actor that takes on the role.

[snooky]

Should change name of prog to "Ds Who"

[ColinNish]

Tom Cruise as Jack Reacher??

The only reason Tom Cruise got that gig is coz he bought the rights to the film.

[Future17]

Interesting to see there is reference to him being white. With that in mind i think you make a fair point re casting both in bond and other films.

Off the back of this i looked at the most recent census, and there are actually a lot more people of indian and pakistani descent living in Britain. Given the current climate of fear round muslim populations etc, it would possibly be more realistic to have an asian bond, as i bet we have plenty spies trying to infiltrate isis etc at the moment. If Elbas only in line because he is black, then that is actually racism too.

You're going to have to explain that to me please.

[beensaidbefore]

You're going to have to explain that to me please.

Well basically, if he is getting the role because he is black and for no other reason, then it is the same as a white person getting a job because they are white.

Whilst not in the traditional sense, i see it as just as rascist to put a person in a role purely because they are the 'right' colour.


On a slightly different issue in todays news, there is some comment on how terrible the bbc are as 88% of their highest earners are white. Is that not a pretty fair representation of the overall population of the uk? And if so, why is it deserving of comment? Should we have a disproportionate number of bme peopel being high earners?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Is the point not that it doesnt fit with the narrative though. Not a lot of black, privately educated, scottish landowners moving in the circles of london high society and climbing rhe pole at MI6 - it doesnt ring true.

Characters like Luther, i agree are colourless, but Bonds backstory is an important part of his character.

That being said, i really like idris elba so not overly concerned. I just worry it is being done for all the wrong reasons (just bevause something can be done, doesnt mean it necessarily should)

[heretoday]

Should change name of prog to "Ds Who"

Or Dr Sue

[Moulin Yarns]

Just seen a trailer for a new drama featuring Jodie Whittaker where she is impersonating a doctor and says "I'm not a real doctor"

That's going viral

[Moulin Yarns]

Just seen a trailer for a new drama featuring Jodie Whittaker where she is impersonating a doctor and says "I'm not a real doctor"That's going viralhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmELIRcuuXY