Off the Ball

[Billy Whizz]

Good discussion on just how about improving Scottish football. Tam McManus saying summer football, and Kenny Millar of the Sun variety, saying that we should maximise the number of home grown players in each team:squad?
Both seem simple ideas? Any thoughts?

[ancient hibee]

Poor players are poor players regardless of the time of the year.

[Billy Whizz]

Poor players are poor players regardless of the time of the year.

Not if they are playing on better pitches

[H18 SFR]

Two teams, Shamrock Rovers and Dundalk - how/why then did they both qualify for the group stages of the Europa League?

[ancient hibee]

Not if they are playing on better pitches

Football is played in Scotland for 10 months in the year.How many summer months do we not play in now? June and July-except clubs are already playing are they not?So where do the better pitches come from and when?

[Bishop Hibee]

Edinburgh just had the wettest June on record. Imagine the state of the pitch if it had been played on.

[1van Sprou7e]

Football is played in Scotland for 10 months in the year.How many summer months do we not play in now? June and July-except clubs are already playing are they not?So where do the better pitches come from and when?

Do you really need an explanation as to why playing less games in the winter can lead to better pitches?

E: But I agree with the above poster, we have rain all year in Edinburgh so I'm not sure it would make a massive difference here

[Deansy]

Scrap the GFA and start again with 100% fresh-blood, sever the dependency/love-in with the OF !

[ancient hibee]

Do you really need an explanation as to why playing less games in the winter can lead to better pitches?

E: But I agree with the above poster, we have rain all year in Edinburgh so I'm not sure it would make a massive difference here


No I don't need an explanation thank you very much.

[Billy Whizz]

No I don't need an explanation thank you very much.

I'll give you an explanation
The pitches get ripped up because we play through the winter, with under soil heating on etc, kills the grass

[H18 SFR]

No I don't need an explanation thank you very much.

You sure?

[ancient hibee]

I'll give you an explanation
The pitches get ripped up because we play through the winter, with under soil heating on etc, kills the grass
That's very kind of you but I don't need one.

[Ozyhibby]

Whatever people think of summer football, nobody can surely deny that by starting the season earlier we would stand a better chance of getting through the first few rounds in Europe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ancient hibee]

You sure?

Definitely.

[Billy Whizz]

That's very kind of you but I don't need one.

Talking heads

[Renfrew_Hibby]

The weather trend for Scotland is for dryer winters but wetter summers...

[Ozyhibby]

Wet weather is no problem for pitches in summer. They are constantly getting watered anyway. So long as the grass is growing they will be fine. It's the cold dark winters when the grass stops growing that are the grounds mans enemy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ancient hibee]

Talking heads
An interesting comment but what has it to do with anything?

This site is moving like molasses through treacle so I'm giving up.

[FitbaFolkKen]

Whatever people think of summer football, nobody can surely deny that by starting the season earlier we would stand a better chance of getting through the first few rounds in Europe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The lower we drop in the European rankings the earlier it starts, it makes so much sense to give our teams the best possible chance by playing competitive football to prepare them for playing in the qualifiers.

However when we start reaching the later stages of the European competitions it may become a problem ;)

[davhibby]

Aberdeen, Hearts and Celtic all lost games to poor teams from tiny countries last year who were at the same stage of the season as us. Summer football wouldn't help and would probably only make signing players from English teams harder

[Bishop Hibee]

I'd stop getting a season ticket as I'd miss too many games in the summer. Weekends away, fortnight holiday etc. Crowds in Ireland have seen little if any improvement since changing to summer football. I'll be well cheesed off if as has been suggested, BT Sport strong arm us into a contract based on summer football.

[Billy Whizz]

I'd stop getting a season ticket as I'd miss too many games in the summer. Weekends away, fortnight holiday etc. Crowds in Ireland have seen little if any improvement since changing to summer football. I'll be well cheesed off if as has been suggested, BT Sport strong arm us into a contract based on summer football.

That's why we need a debate about where we need to be. Some for, some against, but we need to do something. Think we played Bronday last season who had already started their campaign, and it shows in the1st game. If we don't care about Europe, fine, but the riches for Scottish clubs are immense, and surely they are welcome as well we don't earn much domestically

[davhibby]

That's why we need a debate about where we need to be. Some for, some against, but we need to do something. Think we played Bronday last season who had already started their campaign, and it shows in the1st game. If we don't care about Europe, fine, but the riches for Scottish clubs are immense, and surely they are welcome as well we don't earn much domestically

Brondby's first game was the weekend in the midlle of the two games. Starting our season then would work better imo

[lord bunberry]

I'd stop getting a season ticket as I'd miss too many games in the summer. Weekends away, fortnight holiday etc. Crowds in Ireland have seen little if any improvement since changing to summer football. I'll be well cheesed off if as has been suggested, BT Sport strong arm us into a contract based on summer football.

I miss just as many games in the current season. Let's be honest a season ticket is shocking value for money for most of us.

[Billy Whizz]

Brondby's first game was the weekend in the midlle of the two games. Starting our season then would work better imo

Good point Dave, may just need tweaking, although starting early, possibly means finishing early too, or a longer winter break?
Wasn't a problem when we were going in at later rounds, but we're now going in at the 1st round

[Bishop Hibee]

The Europa League is a joke anyway. Most of it isn't a league for starters then clubs parachute down from the CL giving those who qualified at EL level even less chance of getting further. I'd prefer something like a midweek regional league of 4 teams. Winners of the league go through to a straight unseeded knock out tournament. Call it the UEFA Cup 😉. No clubs can parachute down from the CL.

[Morganleith]

It pishes down any given month of the year so for me it's all mute.

[IGRIGI]

Bring back UEFA Cup and Intertoto and we'd sort it out.

A lot of it comes down to the money grabbing changes made by UEFA to their competitions.

[tamig]

I miss just as many games in the current season. Let's be honest a season ticket is shocking value for money for most of us.

It is poor value but I think most folk see it more as a lump sum investment to the club rather than getting a couple of games free. I suspect there are quite a few ST holders who have to miss out on games over the course of the season for a variety of reasons.

[lucky]

Edinburgh just had the wettest June on record. Imagine the state of the pitch if it had been played on.

A wet June is nothing compared to most winter months. A move to summer football will help improve technique of our young players. It will also help our professional game as we won't be competing against the English leagues for a to deal. A move to summer football has helped Irish team in Europe. Without radical change our game will continue to go backwards

[1van Sprou7e]

A wet June is nothing compared to most winter months. A move to summer football will help improve technique of our young players. It will also help our professional game as we won't be competing against the English leagues for a to deal. A move to summer football has helped Irish team in Europe. Without radical change our game will continue to go backwards

Not true. We had about 180mm of rain last month

The averages for the winter months are in the 60mm-75mm range (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh#Climate)

[MyJo]

Realistic:

top to bottom league reconstruction, two top level professional leagues of 16 teams with everything below that regionalised.

Minimum quota of "home-grown" players in match day squads.

Radical:

NFL style draft. Professional teams no longer running under-16 teams and all players until the age of 16 train and play for non-affiliated teams and leagues managed by the SFA and then each year the best youth players are drafted by the professional teams with the worst teams getting the chance to sign the best players.

[where'stheslope]

Playing in summer will make our stadia a total waste of money?

Spending millions on new stands all covered to then play in proposed sunshine?

Our leagues are played when they are played to facilitate for European Championships and World Cups!

Tho' it would be great if we ever get to one again, but European ties in the earlier rounds always seem to be against teams that are either half way through their season or a good few games into it?

The time for change is to give players just 1 month off and back playing in a League Cup with section of 4 then knock out for the rest of the tournament, this would get players fit for the European challenge and then have a slightly longer winter break!!!

[FilipinoHibs]

Not true. We had about 180mm of rain last month

The averages for the winter months are in the 60mm-75mm range (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh#Climate)
Pitches dry out more quickly in summer.

[MyJo]

Pitches dry out more quickly in summer.

No frost either

[Billy Whizz]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40470852

[bigwheel]

Not a fan of summer football idea tbh. Lots of great things to do during summer weekends. Don't really want them filled with fitba

[Craigmount Hibs]

Not a fan of summer football idea tbh. Lots of great things to do during summer weekends. Don't really want them filled with fitba

I agree. I also know dozens of people away on holiday now and all are season ticket holders. Earlier point about missing some games may be true for many, but imagine season ticket sales volumes if you were definitely missing an additional game or 2?

The only games I can recall being postponed in recent years were in summer due to rain. Summer football in Scotland is a terrible, terrible idea.

[weecounty hibby]

In all the years I've had a ST there has not been one that I haven't missed multiple matches for one reason or another. Season before last I missed 8 home games. Summer football gets a thumbs up from me. Always better when you don't have to have 5 layers of clothing, gloves, hat and scarf on at the games

[1van Sprou7e]

I agree. I also know dozens of people away on holiday now and all are season ticket holders. Earlier point about missing some games may be true for many, but imagine season ticket sales volumes if you were definitely missing an additional game or 2?

The only games I can recall being postponed in recent years were in summer due to rain. Summer football in Scotland is a terrible, terrible idea.

Whit? I don't recall this ever happening. What I do remember however is a few years ago when we had a very cold snowy winter and there were several postponements

In fact even last season there were postponements in the winter for the Scottish Cup

[frazeHFC]

I agree. I also know dozens of people away on holiday now and all are season ticket holders. Earlier point about missing some games may be true for many, but imagine season ticket sales volumes if you were definitely missing an additional game or 2?

The only games I can recall being postponed in recent years were in summer due to rain. Summer football in Scotland is a terrible, terrible idea.

Spot on. I'll repeat myself again as I always do with summer football threads but I could only see crowds dropping. Weather in our summer's is absolutely horrific too, absolute myth about playing on dry, hot summer's days.

[Haymaker]

No from me.

I doubt it would improve the quality of pitches. We'd be starting the season in February and ending November/December. They'll be ruined by the poor weather at the beginning and end of the season with maybe a better patch in the middle - how much ground work can you do midway through the season though?

We'd have a window of around 2.5 months where we wouldn't be competing with the English leagues. Every two years that would be competing with international tournaments so I doubt we'll get significantly higher investment. We'll also be competing against summer sports especially in the English market.

Would crowds increase? No real evidence either way on that one but I'd guess at it staying roughly the same.

Increased chance of European qualification sure, what happens if/when we get to the later rounds and we're just starting the season and everyone is midseason?

I agree we need changes to Scottish football, I don't think summer football is the answer imo.

[greenlex]

Whit? I don't recall this ever happening. What I do remember however is a few years ago when we had a very cold snowy winter and there were several postponements

In fact even last season there were postponements in the winter for the Scottish Cup
One of our European games at ER should have been. Played in a farcical monsoon. July IIRC

[Craigmount Hibs]

One of our European games at ER should have been. Played in a farcical monsoon. July IIRC
Correct. Barnsley at home pre season a few years ago was waterlogged. Raith away a couple of years pre season the same.

[malcolm]

Not a fan of summer football idea tbh. Lots of great things to do during summer weekends. Don't really want them filled with fitba

This - it is a winter sport...floodlights, something to look forward to in the short cold days and new year games (mind you we are back with the daft winter break this year).

Of course I'd be all for summer football if like winter football it had a summer break - say May to August so that we can fit in international competitions and folk can go on holiday .. play golf have barbeques etc:greengrin

[ekhibee]

I only heard part of OTB, and Kenny Miller was talking about youth players and mentioned Porteous. Some of the folks on here go to the development games, I was just wondering if Porteous is ready to go into the first team? I've heard good reports about him.

[lucky]

Not true. We had about 180mm of rain last month

The averages for the winter months are in the 60mm-75mm range (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh#Climate)

Winter months are colder and often have snow, sleet and frozen pitches. A wet June is better than a freezing cold November for playing football

[Bishop Hibee]

Winter months are colder and often have snow, sleet and frozen pitches. A wet June is better than a freezing cold November for playing football

They really don't have snow, sleet and frozen pitches often anymore. The coldest I felt at a game last season was an evening game in April. Global warming really isn't a myth.

[Billy Whizz]

What's the German model, seem to be getting it right

[lucky]

They really don't have snow, sleet and frozen pitches often anymore. The coldest I felt at a game last season was an evening game in April. Global warming really isn't a myth.

I'm talking about kids football. We need kids to improve their technique and eventually our professional game will too

[Sammy7nil]

Edinburgh just had the wettest June on record. Imagine the state of the pitch if it had been played on.

Much better than the wettest November / December

[Sammy7nil]

The weather trend for Scotland is for dryer winters but wetter summers...

The trend is colder winters warmer summers grass grows in the summer

[Sammy7nil]

Pitches dry out more quickly in summer.

Yeah we are really stuck for sprinklers in Scotland :rolleyes:

[cabbageandribs1875]

summer footy, yes please :agree: nae fun sitting shivering in a cold seat in colder months, don't mind any rain in the warmer months

[Hibbyradge]

Edinburgh just had the wettest June on record. Imagine the state of the pitch if it had been played on.

That's the wettest June, not the wettest February.

[Hibbyradge]

Much better than the wettest November / December

Exactly.