Liam Boyce signs for Burton

[Winston Ingram]

Well this is disappointing...

https://www.burtonalbionfc.co.uk/news/2017/june/2006-boycesigns/

[Mikey]

To repeat what I posted on the PM Board.......

Sky TV really has ****ed up Scottish football. Burton has a population of around 75,000 and their football team has an average attendance of just over 5,000. Yet we can't get anywhere near the amount they can offer players.

[hibby6270]

Well this is disappointing...

https://www.burtonalbionfc.co.uk/news/2017/june/2006-boycesigns/

Just read that on Twitter.

Another Hibs.net signing target goes by the wayside. Damn. How could us supporters get it so wrong.:wink::greengrin

Back in the real world, I'm sure NL & co will have real signing targets lined up.

[Smartie]

Boyce was never going to join us.

[Johnny_Leith]

Need your head checked if you actually thought Boyce would pick Hibs over Burton.

[CMurdoch]

To repeat what I posted on the PM Board.......

Sky TV really has ****ed up Scottish football. Burton has a population of around 75,000 and their football team has an average attendance of just over 5,000. Yet we can't get anywhere near the amount they can offer players.

Yeah, it's painful. If only Scottish teams, excepting the Glasgow 2, had a slightly better TV deal they could see off the Burton Albion and Barnsley's of the football world.
These small teams and Notts Forest have picked up 4 of the best talents in Scottish football, Mallen, Lindsay, Cummings and Boyce for a total of £2 million.
A sad indictment of Scottish football finances where our clubs are almost totally dependent on gate money given the utterly pathetic TV deal.

[makaveli1875]

Yeah, it's painful. If only Scottish teams, excepting the Glasgow 2, had a slightly better TV deal they could see off the Burton Albion and Barnsley's of the football world.
These small teams and Notts Forest have picked up 4 of the best talents in Scottish football, Mallen, Lindsay, Cummings and Boyce for a total of £2 million.
A sad indictment of Scottish football finances where our clubs are almost totally dependent on gate money given the utterly pathetic TV deal.

I can see the attraction of signing for Forrest , good move for Cummings but Burton FFS surely Boyce could have got a better move than that

[CMurdoch]

I can see the attraction of signing for Forrest , good move for Cummings but Burton FFS surely Boyce could have got a better move than that

Agree, they are almost a stick on for relegation unless Boyce does the business.

[Real Emerald]

In the days before this ridiculous level of money was pumped into these wee teams, no player would even dream of going to a team like Burton Albion over a Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen etc.

It's a pity nothing can be done to even things out. A TV company pumping obscene billions into part of an industry that directly competes against us for players. We even share the same subscriptions for the same channels and probably have more TV appearances into the bargain. It would be great if some legal expert found a loophole in this madness.

In my mind these teams are being unfairly propped up by the same TV channels that serve the whole country 😡

[Flyingwaitor]

Last week i posted that Hibs wouldn't sign him. Out of our reach for the financial reasons i mentioned. Got torn into! There is no way burton are a better 'football' proposition than us...so why would he sign?

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[Hermit Crab]

But the ITKers said he was coming here?? :confused:

[CB_NO3]

Last week i posted that Hibs wouldn't sign him. Out of our reach for the financial reasons i mentioned. Got torn into! There is no way burton are a better 'football' proposition than us...so why would he sign?

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He will get about 7k a week. No team in Scotland can compete with Burton in regards to wages outside the Old Firm.

[Flyingwaitor]

He will get about 7k a week. No team in Scotland can compete with Burton in regards to wages outside the Old Firm.
Correct!

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[Borderhibbie76]

But the ITKers said he was coming here?? :confused:
To be fair I never once read that on here?? There has been some nonsense posted in the last month I give you that but never seen anyone claim we were signing Boyce

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[brog]

But the ITKers said he was coming here?? :confused:

Did they? I must have missed that. I saw a couple of comments from people saying they thought he would be with us for next season but no one AFAIK saying they had specific info re that. Were we ever interested? Burton's interest has been known for some time so we had every opportunity to compete but our manager remains on holiday. Personally I'm not bothered, 2 strikers who are ginger nuts would take the biscuit!

[lucky]

I'd have been surprised if Hibs paid £500k for him. As others have stated we just can't compete with championship clubs never mind EPL. The TV money down south has a real impact on Scottish football. But we just got to keep bringing young players through. But you can't blame players. A 3 year deal on £7k a week is over a million for him.

[CropleyWasGod]

Last week i posted that Hibs wouldn't sign him. Out of our reach for the financial reasons i mentioned. Got torn into! There is no way burton are a better 'football' proposition than us...so why would he sign?

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..one of which was that Hibs had to pay STF £500k from the JC money.

You've still to come back to those who questioned you on that. :wink:

[Flyingwaitor]

I never once said we would pay STF 500k from JC...just we were paying back 500k a year. Was right about Boyce though

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[jdships]

Boyce was never going to join us.

:agree::thumbsup:
My wife is from Dingwall and I keep in close touch wth the family
All four direct relatives work at Victoria Park and they have repeatedly told me he had is mind/heart set on moving to English football!!!
:rolleyes:

[Thecat23]

But the ITKers said he was coming here?? :confused:

I was convinced he'd be part of our team if that helps. Never said he was defo coming it was my personal opinion. Shame English money talks!

Anyway appreciate the sly digs none the less 👍🏼

[CropleyWasGod]

I never once said we would pay STF 500k from JC...just we were paying back 500k a year. Was right about Boyce though

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14th June....

When was the last time we spent £500k + on 1 player? We have been operating on a premiership budget for 3 years in the championship. We dont have the budget to spend that kind of money...simple. If we could afford the fee how do we sustain the wages? We couldn't. We dont have endless amounts of money. We will get 7 figures from JC. Half of that to Farmer. I believe its £4mil still to go and £½mil a year. Ambrose Swanson and Whittaker will all be on big bucks. Say £7500 (guessing) between them then thats almost £400k (including bonus/appearance) that leaves £100k. We simply dont have the cash to spend on a £500k fee then pay £5k a week on wages. I say 5k as thats what a Burton Albion would pay

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[Carheenlea]

I've genuinely never heard of Burton Albion. Modern football is a joke.

[Flyingwaitor]

14th June....

When was the last time we spent £500k + on 1 player? We have been operating on a premiership budget for 3 years in the championship. We dont have the budget to spend that kind of money...simple. If we could afford the fee how do we sustain the wages? We couldn't. We dont have endless amounts of money. We will get 7 figures from JC. Half of that to Farmer. I believe its £4mil still to go and £½mil a year. Ambrose Swanson and Whittaker will all be on big bucks. Say £7500 (guessing) between them then thats almost £400k (including bonus/appearance) that leaves £100k. We simply dont have the cash to spend on a £500k fee then pay £5k a week on wages. I say 5k as thats what a Burton Albion would pay

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Whether the 500k comes from JC or from somehere else...he still gets it...no?! Whether thats in a lump sum or monthly the money has to come from somewhere. The overall point is it aint going on 1 transfer fee. We cant sustain it. We could go round in circles forever! I take your point that i said STF would get half...fair play to you...was probably trying to say he is due 500k and it might come from there

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[MWHIBBIES]

I've genuinely never heard of Burton Albion. Modern football is a joke.I think a club that get 5k competing against Derby, Sunderland and Norwich etc is quite impressive.

The people that run Scottish football are the joke, bizarre than some on here blame Sky for this.

[CropleyWasGod]

Whether the 500k comes from JC or from somehere else...he still gets it...no?! Whether thats in a lump sum or monthly the money has to come from somewhere. The overall point is it aint going on 1 transfer fee. We cant sustain it. We could go round in circles forever! I take your point that i said STF would get half...fair play to you...was probably trying to say he is due 500k and it might come from there

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It comes from the same place it has for the past 2 or so years. From regular income. It's already budgeted for, at £41,667 per month.

Otherwise, by your logic, we'd have to sell a player for £500k every season.

[blackpoolhibs]

Anyone who thought we'd pay 500k for his transfer, then the wages a half a million pound player would command, must be wired to the moon.

[Flyingwaitor]

It comes from the same place it has for the past 2 or so years. From regular income. It's already budgeted for, at £41,667 per month.

Otherwise, by your logic, we'd have to sell a player for £500k every season.
Regular imcome can be anything though! The JC money is probably being spent on wages of players just signed/about to be signed. If we dont spend a transfer fee then we have more for wages. This whole Burton thing puts it all in perspective. Just not enough sky money up here. Burton are no way bigger or better than us

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[CropleyWasGod]

Regular imcome can be anything though! The JC money is probably being spent on wages of players just signed/about to be signed. If we dont spend a transfer fee then we have more for wages. This whole Burton thing puts it all in perspective. Just not enough sky money up here. Burton are no way bigger or better than us

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But the point is that it is payable, every month.......from income.

We made every payment up to this time last year. Since then, we won't know until this year's accounts come out. But I see no reason why we wouldn't have. Do you?

[Diclonius]

First choice down. Onto our second.

[Flyingwaitor]

But the point is that it is payable, every month.......from income.

We made every payment up to this time last year. Since then, we won't know until this year's accounts come out. But I see no reason why we wouldn't have. Do you?
Im not saying we cant make the payments...we can. If we pay it off quicker then id be happier but thats just me. I think the JC money will go into player wages

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[Flyingwaitor]

But the point is that it is payable, every month.......from income.

We made every payment up to this time last year. Since then, we won't know until this year's accounts come out. But I see no reason why we wouldn't have. Do you?
Give STF 500k and that 41667 every month for player wages?

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[blackpoolhibs]

Give STF 500k and that 41667 every month for player wages?

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What about next season, or are we only paying them for 1 season?

[Cod Boy]

Was he ever a official target.

[Flyingwaitor]

Was he ever a official target.
No targets are official are they...until they have signed. He didnt and it must be financial because it certainly isnt football reasons he's going to Burton

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[Craigmount Hibs]

No targets are official are they...until they have signed. He didnt and it must be financial because it certainly isnt football reasons he's going to Burton

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I disagree. English championship is far bigger and better than Scottish Premiership. Burton are a tiny club in a big league, but it'll be a massive step up for him to play well and score goals week in and out there. He'd have struggled to repeat what he achieved in Scotland last year, had he stayed with Ross County.

[CropleyWasGod]

Give STF 500k and that 41667 every month for player wages?

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And next season? Who do we sell?

As an.aside, this argument is not solely directed at you. It's also for those out there, Jambos or otherwise, who have the idea that STF is reliant on transfer income.
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[MWHIBBIES]

No targets are official are they...until they have signed. He didnt and it must be financial because it certainly isnt football reasons he's going to Burton

Sent from my PLK-L01 using TapatalkA good season with Burton could land him in the Premier league, a good season in Scotland could land him with...Burton...


Absolutely footballing reasons.

[Captain Trips]

Pretty simple problem we have up here..Wages..


What is the average weekly pay at Hibs? 1k 2k more? I would say we are paying some folk around 2k p/w. Boyce would be on what at County not a lot I would imagine. A club like Burton Albion come in probably able to offer 5,6k pw? That is a massive change in life, huge.

Players up here are generally on wages pretty easily dwarfed by clubs even in tier 2 of England hence why once a player gets interest from down south they know its a life changer as an extra 3/4k pw for guys on 2k pw is massive.

Your Harry Kanes etc if bidded can look at the club interested before the wages as already on so much per week likely cannot spend it. Boyce was probably offered a wage well above what he was on probaby not astronomical but a massive change for him and family.

No idea on soloution but if clubs up here could pay more p/w we would retain some decent players and more importantly be able to knock back bids for players as they may not want to rush off if wage offered isnt a huge difference.

[Flyingwaitor]

A good season with Burton could land him in the Premier league, a good season in Scotland could land him with...Burton...


Absolutely footballing reasons.
Could? He has not gone to Burton for purely football reasons. Every player has his level. He will never play premiership in england

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[Flyingwaitor]

And next season? Who do we sell?

As an.aside, this argument is not solely directed at you. It's also for those out there, Jambos or otherwise, who have the idea that STF is reliant on transfer income.
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We dont have to sell unless a big bid comes in that we cant turn down. Id rathet have the debt paid off sooner but thats just me

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[Andy74]

First choice down. Onto our second.

Well we've no idea if that is the case or not.

[Flyingwaitor]

I disagree. English championship is far bigger and better than Scottish Premiership. Burton are a tiny club in a big league, but it'll be a massive step up for him to play well and score goals week in and out there. He'd have struggled to repeat what he achieved in Scotland last year, had he stayed with Ross County.
Exactly...a tiny club in a big league. He will win nothing there. A diddy team can pay far more than us...thats the real problem here. In no way am i having a go at Hibs...we just dont have the budget to compete

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[brianmc]

Could? He has not gone to Burton for purely football reasons. Every player has his level. He will never play premiership in england

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He may very well never play in the epl BUT a decent season at Burton and the likes of Leeds, Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday etc could easily snap him up on 18-20k p/w .
Seems like a smart move for the guy - who, let's be honest, we were completely unaware of until very, very recently.

[bigwheel]

Who do we think will score more next season - Boyce or Cummings ?

[Aldo]

14th June.... When was the last time we spent £500k + on 1 player? We have been operating on a premiership budget for 3 years in the championship. We dont have the budget to spend that kind of money...simple. If we could afford the fee how do we sustain the wages? We couldn't. We dont have endless amounts of money. We will get 7 figures from JC. Half of that to Farmer. I believe its £4mil still to go and £½mil a year. Ambrose Swanson and Whittaker will all be on big bucks. Say £7500 (guessing) between them then thats almost £400k (including bonus/appearance) that leaves £100k. We simply dont have the cash to spend on a £500k fee then pay £5k a week on wages. I say 5k as thats what a Burton Albion would pay Sent from my PLK-L01 using Tapatalk

Ah was trying to find that CWG and was beginning to doubt myself!!

[brog]

It almost seems to have become a Net " Fact " that we were, at a minimum, interested in Boyce but can't compete on wages with the likes of Burton.
1. There is no evidence we were ever interested, minor paper talk only.
2. When Pat Fenlon was looking at Boyce for Hibs the majority on here IIRC, didn't think he'd be good enough!
3. We've signed players in the recent past, Stokes & Liam Miller for example, who could have commanded far higher wages in England than we could pay but they came to ER. Hibs are an attractive option playing in a great location in which to live & work. I would suggest that if we were really interested in LB then we could have made him & RC a competitive offer.
4. The transfer fee is undisclosed, per some on here that means RC have been fleeced. :wink: Seriously it's announced as a record fee but that only means it's higher than the £250k Burton paid for Jackson Irvine. Incidentally I believe the success of Irvine at BA was a key factor in them taking a chance on Boyce.
5. I believe we've been paid at least 3 times the LB transfer fee for a player who scored less goals in a league a tier below LB. JC has also been transferred to a much bigger & higher profile club & FWIW I believe he'll be the better buy.
I'm really not concerned re LB joining Burton but we really do need a minimum of 2 new strikers before season start up now.

[Brooster]

Anyone who thought we'd pay 500k for his transfer, then the wages a half a million pound player would command, must be wired to the moon.

Spot on mate. The amount of made up tosh Im reading on here is unreal.

[ancient hibee]

Who do we think will score more next season - Boyce or Cummings ?

Boyce for me.He's liable to play far more games than Cummings.

[Sioux]

We dont have to sell unless a big bid comes in that we cant turn down. Id rathet have the debt paid off sooner but thats just me

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If you can service your financial commitments out of regular income, you do so. There is no need to use 'capital'. Normal business practice. Use capital for capital projects (transfer fees for example).

[ancient hibee]

We dont have to sell unless a big bid comes in that we cant turn down. Id rathet have the debt paid off sooner but thats just me

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Why would anyone want to pay off a debt earlier than required when it's interest free?

[Flyingwaitor]

If you can service your financial commitments out of regular income, you do so. There is no need to use 'capital'. Normal business practice. Use capital for capital projects (transfer fees for example).
As we are not privy to the exact financial arrangements Hibs have in place i would tend to agree with you. I very much doubt we will spend all th JC money on transfers though. Wages yes but not on fees. I would just rather be debt free asap...just a personal thing. I jave no doubts the club is now being run properly and we live within our means

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[MWHIBBIES]

Could? He has not gone to Burton for purely football reasons. Every player has his level. He will never play premiership in england

Sent from my PLK-L01 using TapatalkPlenty worse players than him have. 15-20 goals this season and you never know.

[Flyingwaitor]

Why would anyone want to pay off a debt earlier than required when it's interest free?
Because it is debt. Interest free or not...its debt. Pay it off sooner and we have 41667 a month to play with. I get what you're saying but the sooner its gone the better. Thats just my opinion though.

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[ancient hibee]

Ever heard of inflation? £41k now will be worth a good bit more than it will be in 8 years time.That's what makes it such a good deal for Hibs.

[brianmc]

Because it is debt. Interest free or not...its debt. Pay it off sooner and we have 41667 a month to play with. I get what you're saying but the sooner its gone the better. Thats just my opinion though.

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How much extra (not looking for actual monetary values, just percentages) do you voluntarily pay towards your mortgage/rent, council tax, mobile phone bill, car repayments etc ?
Our do you budget for your bills and use whatever is left to fund the rest of your life? You know, like Hibs are doing.

[Flyingwaitor]

Ever heard of inflation? £41k now will be worth a good bit more than it will be in 8 years time.That's what makes it such a good deal for Hibs.
Yes...i have heard of inflation. Anything interest free is a great deal...i agree. I just prefer to have it paid asap. Just an opinion. Being debt free is surely the best scenario for the club

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[Aldo]

Yes...i have heard of inflation. Anything interest free is a great deal...i agree. I just prefer to have it paid asap. Just an opinion. Being debt free is surely the best scenario for the club Sent from my PLK-L01 using Tapatalk


I get the feeling that unless folk say what you want to hear the you push a subject to the limit.

We have a deal an interest free deal that won't break the bank but will allow is to have some extra cash to spend!!

Yes we all want the debt paid off but why o why would we let the team budget be blown on paying back money when there is already an agreement in place.

It has taken us years to get to the position we are in so why throw it all away! Yes we have sold JC however there is money there for the right quality of player (s)

Do you actually get what folk are saying??

[Flyingwaitor]

How much extra (not looking for actual monetary values, just percentages) do you voluntarily pay towards your mortgage/rent, council tax, mobile phone bill, car repayments etc ?
Our do you budget for your bills and use whatever is left to fund the rest of your life? You know, like Hibs are doing.

I pay 10% extra a year to my mortgage. As thats as much as im allowed as per agreement. I'll be mortgage free by 45. I have no car repayments as i saved and traded the old car and bought it outright. Insurance, tv licence and council tax are paid yearly. Cant avoid the day to day bills of sky, phone, food, fuel bills, pension, petrol...kids!
The less debt the better...but thats just the way i live. By 45 i will be as debt free as possible. A bit of hard work now goes a long way later!
If Hibs clear their debt asap then there is no millstone round their neck! Thats in my ideal Hibs world though.
I hope that answers your question ;-)

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[Flyingwaitor]

I get the feeling that unless folk say what you want to hear the you push a subject to the limit.

We have a deal an interest free deal that won't break the bank but will allow is to have some extra cash to spend!!

Yes we all want the debt paid off but why o why would we let the team budget be blown on paying back money when there is already an agreement in place.

It has taken us years to get to the position we are in so why throw it all away! Yes we have sold JC however there is money there for the right quality of player (s)

Do you actually get what folk are saying??
I totally get what people are saying. Its a good deal we have. Id just rather be debt free asap. Just a personal thing...each to their own. Im happy with the deal...would just be happier paying it off sooner thats all

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[Is It On....]

Burton Albion can out bid anybody in Scottish football excluding Celtic and Sevco (who Boyce was never going to sign for)..what a depressing situation.

[Caversham Green]

Who do we think will score more next season - Boyce or Cummings ?

Boyce is coming in as a first pick striker, Cummings is a future investment at Forest, so Boyce will score more next season but Cummings will have scored more (or at a higher level) by the end of his contract.

[Phil MaGlass]

I pay 10% extra a year to my mortgage. As thats as much as im allowed as per agreement. I'll be mortgage free by 45. I have no car repayments as i saved and traded the old car and bought it outright. Insurance, tv licence and council tax are paid yearly. Cant avoid the day to day bills of sky, phone, food, fuel bills, pension, petrol...kids!
The less debt the better...but thats just the way i live. By 45 i will be as debt free as possible. A bit of hard work now goes a long way later!
If Hibs clear their debt asap then there is no millstone round their neck! Thats in my ideal Hibs world though.
I hope that answers your question ;-)

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The debt isnt a millstone though. Why would we even consider paying an interest free debt off straight away? It would only impact on our playing staff. We have worked damn hard over the last 3 yrs, including fans, to suppoft the team/club. The club really should be making an effort to get the right players in. If we do end up paying the debt off it WILL impact the club. Some fans will feel shortchanged, especially the fans who have ploughed in hard earned cash to back the clubs call for us to back them. Not a good idea to pay it off. Now is the time for player investment and the fans will keep coming.

[Cod Boy]

Everyone who subscribe to sky sports contributes to clubs like Burton paying the money for players wages.

[Flyingwaitor]

The debt isnt a millstone though. Why would we even consider paying an interest free debt off straight away? It would only impact on our playing staff. We have worked damn hard over the last 3 yrs, including fans, to suppoft the team/club. The club really should be making an effort to get the right players in. If we do end up paying the debt off it WILL impact the club. Some fans will feel shortchanged, especially the fans who have ploughed in hard earned cash to back the clubs call for us to back them. Not a good idea to pay it off. Now is the time for player investment and the fans will keep coming.

Fair point and i totally see where you are coming from. Im not saying pay it all off instantly and cut back on everything. That would be a disaster. Im sure the club is being run brilliantly compared to years gone by. Being debt free is such a great position to be in but just my opinion

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[Flyingwaitor]

Everyone who subscribe to sky sports contributes to clubs like Burton paying the money for players wages.
Is this you having a dig or just stating the obvious?

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[RedHibby]

The debt we have is being repaid at 500K per year and even if we put the Cummings transfer fee towards that we would still have the balance to pay at £41k per month. I don't know if we were after Boyce but I hope we have learned from previous transfer window dealings and not leaving it until the last minute with no time to get the team to gel.

[CRAZYHIBBY]

Who said we were ever in for him

[Is It On....]

The debt we have is being repaid at 500K per year and even if we put the Cummings transfer fee towards that we would still have the balance to pay at £41k per month. I don't know if we were after Boyce but I hope we have learned from previous transfer window dealings and not leaving it until the last minute with no time to get the team to gel.

I think telling FF and others to sign or find another club suggests we are trying to sort things out asap.

[Cod Boy]

Is this you having a dig or just stating the obvious?

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A dig at who 🤔

[Flyingwaitor]

Hmmmm not sure

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[Cod Boy]

Hmmmm not sure

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All I'm saying is these clubs would be nothing without the sky money. Clubs up here get a raw deal hence the fact we can't compete with clubs who get 5000 crowds down south.

[Flyingwaitor]

All I'm saying is these clubs would be nothing without the sky money. Clubs up here get a raw deal hence the fact we can't compete with clubs who get 5000 crowds down south.
Clubs up here would get half of what we do now without sky money (as paltry as it is). Lets blame the powers that be that set us off on the on the wrong long road of gradually worse tv deals...need i say satanta

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[OxoHibby]

Need your head checked if you actually thought Boyce would pick Hibs over Burton.

This is the problem that frustrates everyone tho. Big club with proud history or Burton Albion. Shouldn't even be close and turns out it isn't. Scottish football is much bigger than the money gulf suggests.

[OxoHibby]

Clubs up here would get half of what we do now without sky money (as paltry as it is). Lets blame the powers that be that set us off on the on the wrong long road of gradually worse tv deals...need i say satanta

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Clubs in Scotland wouldn't get half less. They would get less if there was no TV money but not half. Would be interested to see the breakdown but Hibs turnover this year will be millions and I suspect a few hundred thousand from tv

[Flyingwaitor]

Clubs in Scotland wouldn't get half less. They would get less if there was no TV money but not half. Would be interested to see the breakdown but Hibs turnover this year will be millions and I suspect a few hundred thousand from tv
Half sky and half bt sport. The point i made (poorly i suppose)is that if everyone stopped paying sky then we would be left with bt money. Yeah it will make for an interesting read...then lets compare it to the yams!

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[OxoHibby]

Half sky and half bt sport. The point i made (poorly i suppose)is that if everyone stopped paying sky then we would be left with bt money. Yeah it will make for an interesting read...then lets compare it to the yams!

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I wasn't talking just about sky. My point was aimed more at Scottish football isn't that bad. If people who follow Scottish football don't believe it no one will. It's got to be about more than sky and BT. If we all accept its about TV money then it perpetuates. Hibs if they were interested vs Burton completely illustrates that for me

[Flyingwaitor]

I wasn't talking just about sky. My point was aimed more at Scottish football isn't that bad. If people who follow Scottish football don't believe it no one will. It's got to be about more than sky and BT. If we all accept its about TV money then it perpetuates. Hibs if they were interested vs Burton completely illustrates that for me

I think scottish football does ok considering the money thats involved. If we even got 10% of the english budget...imagine how much more intetest there would be. The whole profile would be raised. Money talks nowadays...sad but true

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[brianmc]

I pay 10% extra a year to my mortgage. As thats as much as im allowed as per agreement. I'll be mortgage free by 45. I have no car repayments as i saved and traded the old car and bought it outright. Insurance, tv licence and council tax are paid yearly. Cant avoid the day to day bills of sky, phone, food, fuel bills, pension, petrol...kids!
The less debt the better...but thats just the way i live. By 45 i will be as debt free as possible. A bit of hard work now goes a long way later!
If Hibs clear their debt asap then there is no millstone round their neck! Thats in my ideal Hibs world though.
I hope that answers your question ;-)

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Well good for you - (really) and thanks for the reply.

But the whole world economy runs on debt. SUSTAINABLE debt . The crucial word being sustainable. Whilst it is regarded as such then there's no issue whatsoever as far as I can see.

*by the way, this is why you're only allowed to pay 10% extra to your mortgage. The banking/business world would collapse if they let people pay off all their debt early.
What Hibs are doing is good business practise.

[greenlex]

Yes...i have heard of inflation. Anything interest free is a great deal...i agree. I just prefer to have it paid asap. Just an opinion. Being debt free is surely the best scenario for the club

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Not if it's not costing you anything to have the credit. Why on earth would you pay it off early? It's not going to help in the slightest.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Ach well ...... Good luck to Boyce and good luck to Burton Albion, its not their fault TV money down south can make giants out of minnows at least when it comes to the financial difference between them and Scottish clubs.

This situation will continue until such time as the SPFL can negotiate a decent deal with either SKY or BT or hopefully both .... nobody is pretending we will ever compete with the big leagues in Europe, but something is far wrong when the likes of Burton Albion can out spend far bigger clubs like us and Aberdeen for example.

[therealgavmac]

As we are not privy to the exact financial arrangements Hibs have in place i would tend to agree with you. I very much doubt we will spend all th JC money on transfers though. Wages yes but not on fees. I would just rather be debt free asap...just a personal thing. I jave no doubts the club is now being run properly and we live within our means

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That's the first time I've heard the phrase "live within our means" in the context of our club.....

[monktonharp]

In the days before this ridiculous level of money was pumped into these wee teams, no player would even dream of going to a team like Burton Albion over a Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen etc.

It's a pity nothing can be done to even things out. A TV company pumping obscene billions into part of an industry that directly competes against us for players. We even share the same subscriptions for the same channels and probably have more TV appearances into the bargain. It would be great if some legal expert found a loophole in this madness.

In my mind these teams are being unfairly propped up by the same TV channels that serve the whole country 😡agree entirely with your comments. Burton Albion, by Christ.! a well known famous English club, in the heart of Lincolnshire where it is known more for harvesting, farming and picking beetroot and mainly by eastern European migrants , yet they can guzump clubs like ours and Aberdeen etc for the pick of our Scottish based players.added to that, they dinnae even want immigrants to work in the fields, happy to get N.Irishmen on the pitch though! all about being british I supose

[leithsansiro]

Being totally honest, without having read it here, I would've assumed that Burton were playing in the lower reaches of England. They aren't by any means a traditional powerhouse, and strike me more as a glorified village team with a bit of cash. The fact that this cash is falling into the laps of seemingly tiny clubs in England is depressing. Whoever negotiated the TV deal on behalf of English clubs has played an absolute blinder.

[Heisenberg]

Folk moan about Sky but didn't those in charge knock back a very good deal from them to sign up with the mess that was Setanta Sports? Looks like Sky have chucked it since then.

[CorrieHibs]

We get shafted, the deal is p**h due to donkey Doncaster. If BT are willing to better it then let's do it. We just take the first offer. I hate them but let's face it Celtic and Rangers are the attraction so use them to get a better deal for us all. Hibs and hearts get good crowds but have no money to show for it. Scotland is one of the most viewed leagues in Europe per head of population but not even in the top 10 lucrative tv deals in Europe! The English league 1 is pish, the standard is terrible and yet they can outbid all of our teams bar the old firm and possibly Aberdeen due to the money they get from sky. It's going to get worse until the blazers at the SPFL sort it. We had more money 20 years ago than we do now.

Burton outbidding Aberdeen is no surprise, these teams don't even need a home gate due to sky financing them.

I know a lot of folk watch English football up here and have teams etc. However Scotland needs to boycott it, cancel the sports subscription, we are funding it and it's ruining our game.

[Lago]

Boyce has gone to Burton for one reason only, money, forget all his talk of better league, improving his game etc etc. He has gone for money & fair doos, but that team will struggle against relegation all season.

[Jones28]

That fact is that Scottish clubs will always sell to England, that's just way it is. The money is too good to refuse. Even Celtic sell their hottest property to England.

Boyce, Cummings and McGinn (if he goes) will be quadrupling their salaries by going south so for them it's a no brainier and the clubs get good fees because of the TV money.

It's no surprise that we can't compete with a championship team because all their money comes from TV deals anyway, even if their gates are around 5/6k.

[delbert]

We get shafted, the deal is p**h due to donkey Doncaster. If BT are willing to better it then let's do it. We just take the first offer. I hate them but let's face it Celtic and Rangers are the attraction so use them to get a better deal for us all. Hibs and hearts get good crowds but have no money to show for it. Scotland is one of the most viewed leagues in Europe per head of population but not even in the top 10 lucrative tv deals in Europe! The English league 1 is pish, the standard is terrible and yet they can outbid all of our teams bar the old firm and possibly Aberdeen due to the money they get from sky. It's going to get worse until the blazers at the SPFL sort it. We had more money 20 years ago than we do now.

Burton outbidding Aberdeen is no surprise, these teams don't even need a home gate due to sky financing them.

I know a lot of folk watch English football up here and have teams etc. However Scotland needs to boycott it, cancel the sports subscription, we are funding it and it's ruining our game.

The money thing all went tits up when that ridiculous little fanny Roger Mitchell turned down the £51 million on the table from Sky in the hope of getting more and they told him, quite rightly, to bolt ! They then called his bluff by telling him they weren't coming back and in the end we were forced into accepting scraps from the opposition, think it was Setanta, who paid six million ! Ever since then, every broadcaster comes in knowing Scottish Football is whoring itself out for a choccy biscuit every season and will accept pretty much anything on offer because so many of the clubs almost operate on a week to week basis, Mitchell has a lot to answer for but the clubs, including ours, put the James Hunt in charge !!

[Mikey]

The money thing all went tits up when that ridiculous little fanny Roger Mitchell turned down the £51 million on the table from Sky in the hope of getting more and they told him, quite rightly, to bolt ! They then called his bluff by telling him they weren't coming back and in the end we were forced into accepting scraps from the opposition, think it was Setanta, who paid six million ! Ever since then, every broadcaster comes in knowing Scottish Football is whoring itself out for a choccy biscuit every season and will accept pretty much anything on offer because so many of the clubs almost operate on a week to week basis, Mitchell has a lot to answer for but the clubs, including ours, put the James Hunt in charge !!

There was an article about that fairly recently. I think Richard Keys told the story.

[Jones28]

There was an article about that fairly recently. I think Richard Keys told the story.

There was a lot about it in Scotlands game from Mitchell himself. He definitely underplayed his own role and that he was being a greedy wee *******.

[Mikey]

Here it is........




TV anchorman Richard Keys remembers when the order came through to “shut down Scottish football - it no longer exists," after the dispute between satellite giants Sky TV and Roger Mitchell.

Richard Keys had a seat inside Sky TV’s high command when the order came through from above: “Shut down Scottish football. It no longer exists.”

That was 15 years ago. But Keys believes the game in this country is still paying the price.

And yesterday, when the TV anchorman read Record Sport’s expose on the paltry broadcast deal that is keeping our game locked in Europe’s poor house, his mind immediately raced back to that mean-spirited dispute between the satellite giants and Roger Mitchell – a row he blames for our game’s financial plight.

Yesterday, we mapped out the paucity of the SPFL’s TV deals with Sky and BT Sport by comparing them with mega-money contracts being handed out in countries across the Continent.

While Scotland’s clubs scrape by on a share of £18.75million for the rights to 60 live games per season, 17 other leagues are raking in relative fortunes.

From £1.71billion per season in England to £46m a year in Denmark and £50m in Greece, our game has been frozen out of football’s broadcast fortunes. Keys caught up with our figures as he boarded a flight from Heathrow to Doha, where he hosts live football every weekend for big-spending Qataris beIN SPORTS.

And he said: “I wasn’t surprised by them, I was astounded by them. The sums are frightening.

“It’s a crying shame the way Scottish football is being treated. In fact it’s beyond a crying shame – it’s a disgrace.”

And Keys knows what he’s talking about. He had a ringside seat when former SPL chief executive Mitchell picked a fight with the heavyweight executive at the top of Sky’s empire, Vic Wakeling. And got knocked out cold.

Even now when Keys shuts his eyes he can still hear Scottish football’s bones being crushed. He said: “You can trace it all back to 2002 and the deal Vic Wakeling didn’t do with Roger Mitchell who was in charge of the SPL – but who wasn’t very good at it.

“Vic put something like £60m on the table and the response was, ‘Come back to me when you’re serious’. Vic withdrew the offer and overnight he made it clear we were to stop talking about Scottish football on Sky Sports News which was a disgrace in itself.

“The instruction was, ‘Scottish football doesn’t exist. Shut it down. We don’t talk about it, we’re not interested in it until they come back to the table on our terms’.

“It really was a disgrace and in my view Scottish football has never recovered. Scottish football has made some extraordinary decisions domestically which I didn’t understand but which have had a very detrimental effect on the game. And you know what I’m referring to.

“All these years on still no one can tell me what Rangers were guilty of when they were sent down to the bottom tier.

“The expectation was they would be found guilty but my understanding is they were never convicted of any wrong- doing. But I guess that’s another matter entirely.”

Keys stayed at Sky for nine more years before leaving under a cloud of controversy in 2011.

But in his next job, with TalkSPORT, he was quick to reconnect with the Scottish game – and to understand its value.

He said: “When we went to Talksport I was very much aware that the station was broadcast nationally. But that we only ever talked about English football. I said when I went there I wanted our show to have an audience of over one million. I was told we would never do it.

“So after a week or so I told them I wanted a full set of newspapers delivered every morning, including in particular the Daily Record because I wanted to know what was happening in Scotland.

“The only reason I knew what was happening at Rangers in 2011 was because I started reading the Daily Record. And that’s when we started covering it properly.

“Effectively we broke the story in England because no one else down here had been paying attention to what the Record had been writing.

“A club the size of Rangers going bust? This was a huge story – it was cataclysmic – but no one in England cared about or even knew about it until TalkSPORT picked it up.

“When we left that station our audience was 1.25m and a large part of that was the decision to show a genuine, grown-up interest in Scottish football. I’m not sure any of the major British broadcasters have done so since. Too many people who live and work in London and who broadcast from London believe the UK ends at Berwick.”

Keys was the frontman for the big TV relaunch of England’s top flight in 1992. And that experience has convinced him Scottish football can also be completely over-hauled if the big broadcasters are prepared to pay it the going rate.

He said: “I don’t buy into the theory they won’t pay proper money for it because it’s not a very good product because when we set up the Premier League in England it wasn’t a very good product either.

“It only is what it is today because of the amount of TV money that’s been poured into it. Unless you commit to it in that way you can’t expect it to be better.

“What you certainly can’t do is expect the product to get better by completely ignoring it the way Sky is just now.

“The problem is they got stung massively in the last round of negotiations for the rights to the Premier League. As a result Sky are now paying £11m a game.

“On any given weekend they’re paying £55m to put five games on and that’s just for the rights, never mind all the staff and technology involved in such big live broadcasts.

“So something had to give. They lost things like speedway and all the other stuff around the periphery. The attitude was, ‘If we can nick Scottish football then let’s do that’. It’s time football people in Scotland demanded a far better deal.”

[HibernianJK]

agree entirely with your comments. Burton Albion, by Christ.! a well known famous English club, in the heart of Lincolnshire where it is known more for harvesting, farming and picking beetroot and mainly by eastern European migrants , yet they can guzump clubs like ours and Aberdeen etc for the pick of our Scottish based players.added to that, they dinnae even want immigrants to work in the fields, happy to get N.Irishmen on the pitch though! all about being british I supose

Good on them. Small club that's climbed through the ranks - let's not blame the clubs.

[RIP]

To be honest I think Boyce is tailor made for English football as his game will suit their style of play. In this era teams like Hibs must cut their cloth accordingly. Transfers at this time of the year are always a bit of a stitch up.

Sorry. Think I've lost the thread a bit.

[Heisenberg]

http://m.burtonmail.co.uk/northern-ireland-manager-michael-o-neill-told-liam-boyce-now-is-right-time-to-join-burton-albion/story-30404326-detail/story.html

So according to Michael O'Neill Aberdeen (which is understandable considering the sale of Hayes) and Hearts had both agreed fees for Boyce. How the **** can Hearts afford to chuck approx 500k on a transfer fee?

[Geo_1875]

http://m.burtonmail.co.uk/northern-ireland-manager-michael-o-neill-told-liam-boyce-now-is-right-time-to-join-burton-albion/story-30404326-detail/story.html

So according to Michael O'Neill Aberdeen (which is understandable considering the sale of Hayes) and Hearts had both agreed fees for Boyce. How the **** can Hearts afford to chuck approx 500k on a transfer fee?

They can't. It's easy to offer a club £500k. It's harder to get a player to agree terms.

[Lago]

Burton Albion, the ground The Perilli stadium. Capcity 7k of which 2k are seated. Boyce went for money, they will be the Rotherham of this season championship. I just wish players would be honest, there is no shame in maximising your income but stop trying to dressit up as something its not.

[pacorosssco]

Here it is........

Decent read rangers stuff aside. Fifa should take all tv money globally and split evenly around all associations then they split on league position. Has sky made epl better. More teams won ec 70s early 80s in 15 year period than have won it in sky era which is over twice the period of time.

[Andy74]

http://m.burtonmail.co.uk/northern-ireland-manager-michael-o-neill-told-liam-boyce-now-is-right-time-to-join-burton-albion/story-30404326-detail/story.html

So according to Michael O'Neill Aberdeen (which is understandable considering the sale of Hayes) and Hearts had both agreed fees for Boyce. How the **** can Hearts afford to chuck approx 500k on a transfer fee?

Probably because it would have been nowhere near £500k.

[BSEJVT]

Yes...i have heard of inflation. Anything interest free is a great deal...i agree. I just prefer to have it paid asap. Just an opinion. Being debt free is surely the best scenario for the club

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I think we have tried that and failed

We got to where we were because of under investment in the team

We are now sensibly investing in the team and reaping the rewards

£500k pa on 8000 season tickets is a lot of cash £500k on 13000 much less so

Each to their own but we enjoyed spending our time and money on the kids as they grew up.

Its far easier paying off the mortgage now they are grown up and I wouldn't swap the things we did them and the memories we have of those times for a kings ransom.

We are and were very well insured so there was never any risk.

[Heisenberg]

Probably because it would have been nowhere near £500k.

Ross County rejected a bid just short of 500k for him from Burton. It would've been a higher figure than that to get them to accept.

[Andy74]

Ross County rejected a bid just short of 500k for him from Burton. It would've been a higher figure than that to get them to accept.

We don't know those figures are accurate at all.

[blackpoolhibs]

We don't know those figures are accurate at all.


What figure did they pay then Andy, and how do you know its accurate?

[Andy74]

What figure did they pay then Andy, and how do you know its accurate?

I don't know. It was a suggestion on how Hearts had a bid accepted of that level. I reckon probably because it wasn't that level. It's a number that's not been discussed by any of the clubs involved and seems to be based on a rumoured release clause.

[blackpoolhibs]

I don't know. It was a suggestion on how Hearts had a bid accepted of that level. I reckon probably because it wasn't that level. It's a number that's not been discussed by any of the clubs involved and seems to be based on a rumoured release clause.

I might be wrong Andy, but i think i saw an article in a paper quoting the £500k release clause but cant remember which one? :confused:

[Heisenberg]

Burton broke their transfer record to sign him (previously 350k) and it was reported by a couple that the deal was for 500k. Either way it looks like Hearts were prepared to pay very good cash for him.

[ancient hibee]

Burton broke their transfer record to sign him (previously 350k) and it was reported by a couple that the deal was for 500k. Either way it looks like Hearts were prepared to pay very good cash for him. I can't see us bidding for anyone at that price.
It's been said already but again it's not the transfer fee but the wages that stop us competing for players.

[weecounty hibby]

So if it was reported that we had a bid accepted would it make us all warm and fuzzy and think that our club was all big and huge and massive and enormous? I believe that is what is being done with hearts. Look at the hard evidence rather than bull**** rumours. Scott Allan wanted by hearts, joins Dundee. Stefan Scougall wanted by hearts, joins St Johnstone. Liam Boyce 500k bid accepted plus the wages that goes along with that? Aye right then. But but but we are the big club we can offer 500k for a player!!! Bull, don't believe a word of it

[stoneyburn hibs]

So if it was reported that we had a bid accepted would it make us all warm and fuzzy and think that our club was all big and huge and massive and enormous? I believe that is what is being done with hearts. Look at the hard evidence rather than bull**** rumours. Scott Allan wanted by hearts, joins Dundee. Stefan Scougall wanted by hearts, joins St Johnstone. Liam Boyce 500k bid accepted plus the wages that goes along with that? Aye right then. But but but we are the big club we can offer 500k for a player!!! Bull, don't believe a word of it

Ffs, you saying they're no a big team?

[monktonharp]

Good on them. Small club that's climbed through the ranks - let's not blame the clubs.:agree:although I got the "shires" wrong. I originaly posted, thinking of Boston (united) a similar sized club. I was reminded by a group of Hibernian chaps last night, that I had got it wrong:not worth

[sleeping giant]

Burton broke their transfer record to sign him (previously 350k) and it was reported by a couple that the deal was for 500k. Either way it looks like Hearts were prepared to pay very good cash for him.

Just like we were going to pay 850k for Steven Naismith.

[blackpoolhibs]

Just like we were going to pay 850k for Steven Naismith.


I know, that tickled me when Collins wanted to bring in Naysmith, we were all looking forward to watching Naysmith being our record signing and couldnt wait to see us pay him £18-20k a week? :greengrin

[brog]

I know, that tickled me when Collins wanted to bring in Naysmith, we were all looking forward to watching Naysmith being our record signing and couldnt wait to see us pay him £18-20k a week? :greengrin

Trust me G, we made a serious bid for Naismith & we wouldn't have been paying anything like £18-20k a week. Remember it was 10 years ago & Naismith was at a provincial Scottish club.

[blackpoolhibs]

Trust me G, we made a serious bid for Naismith & we wouldn't have been paying anything like £18-20k a week. Remember it was 10 years ago & Naismith was at a provincial Scottish club.

I remember the bid, and i know we wouldnt be paying that kind of money, but the huns did and of course if he'd not gone there, teams in England would have paid the same.

We were never in the hunt on wages alone, nevermind who he wanted to sign for.

[brog]

I remember the bid, and i know we wouldnt be paying that kind of money, but the huns did and of course if he'd not gone there, teams in England would have paid the same.

We were never in the hunt on wages alone, nevermind who he wanted to sign for.

I agree & Oldco ended up paying about double our offer but even with them there's no way they were paying Naismith anywhere near £18-20k at that time. ( EBT's were stopping ). The wages explosion in England hadn't yet happened then either. In 2007 Sky were coming to the end of a £1bn contract. Eight years later they paid £5bn & had to share with BT! We genuinely made what we thought was a competitive bid in all aspects but both Killie & SN ( understandably ) used our bid to boost interest in the player. From then on I agree we had no chance, our bid was a one off but IMO the club should be applauded for showing ambition & imagination at that time.

[blackpoolhibs]

I agree & Oldco ended up paying about double our offer but even with them there's no way they were paying Naismith anywhere near £18-20k at that time. ( EBT's were stopping ). The wages explosion in England hadn't yet happened then either. In 2007 Sky were coming to the end of a £1bn contract. Eight years later they paid £5bn & had to share with BT! We genuinely made what we thought was a competitive bid in all aspects but both Killie & SN ( understandably ) used our bid to boost interest in the player. From then on I agree we had no chance, our bid was a one off but IMO the club should be applauded for showing ambition & imagination at that time.

Not so sure matey, i cant remember who we did eventually sign once Naysmith went to the huns, but i dont remember us signing anyone of note for a large fee?

And surely those in charge petrie :rolleyes: would know just what wages a player costing that kind of money would want, and i cant believe we'd be anywhere near a serious offer with a bid of that amount and wages combined.

[brog]

Not so sure matey, i cant remember who we did eventually sign once Naysmith went to the huns, but i dont remember us signing anyone of note for a large fee?

And surely those in charge petrie :rolleyes: would know just what wages a player costing that kind of money would want, and i cant believe we'd be anywhere near a serious offer with a bid of that amount and wages combined.

You'll need to trust me on this one G. Now I'm sure we made the bid because we saw an opportunity to get a top talent relatively cheaply & sell him on in a year or 2 but we did make the effort. I can tell you that about the same time we talked to 2 English top league players, one of whom went to Blackpool for a while & the other who just got promoted back to the EPL.