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View Full Version : Hibs looking for applications for an unpaid analyst



1van Sprou7e
18-06-2017, 05:23 PM
http://thevideoanalyst.com/job/the-hibernian-football-club-ltd-edinburgh-226-assistant-first-teamacademy-performance-analyst-applied-experience/

Surely we can afford to give them a wage?

Billy Whizz
18-06-2017, 05:27 PM
http://thevideoanalyst.com/job/the-hibernian-football-club-ltd-edinburgh-226-assistant-first-teamacademy-performance-analyst-applied-experience/

Surely we can afford to give them a wage?

Think we do this regularly, gives students etc very valuable experience
Think one of the guys doing this just now, did this, and he's now a full time employee

Twiglet
18-06-2017, 05:27 PM
It's an internship/experience. Hibs do have someone who's paid to do analysis already.

bill_reed
18-06-2017, 05:29 PM
can't see them getting any quality personnel to work for free.... anyone with the type of experience they are after will want paid for there services... even if the minimum wage...

hibee
18-06-2017, 05:29 PM
May suit a student looking for experience but the description sounds more like they're looking for someone who already has the experience and is willing to work all hours.

I'm sure the guy that done this in the past either worked for free or started out doing it for free before being taken on.

With the money they pay out in salaries I agree they should be able to pay one for this role, who can afford to work for nothing nowadays.

heidtheba
18-06-2017, 05:31 PM
Sounds like an excellent 'get experience to get a job' type thing And it does clearly say that there is already one in place (who I imagine is paid);
"Other tasks as set by the First Team/Academy Analyst"

Viva_Palmeiras
18-06-2017, 05:33 PM
Im a bit conflicted about "internships".

On one hand how do you get experience? But on the other in the main seems to be a way of getting free labour who can afford to offer their services for free?

Treadstone
18-06-2017, 05:34 PM
Not a new thing in football.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/apr/12/football-clubs-accused-exploiting-unpaid-interns

Brightside
18-06-2017, 05:38 PM
Every team does this. Makes sense for all parties.

Michael
18-06-2017, 05:42 PM
Unfortunately I know people who have worked for free for "experience". A bit exploitative if you ask me.

Mr White
18-06-2017, 05:58 PM
Unfortunately I know people who have worked for free for "experience". A bit exploitative if you ask me.

Not necessarily. A mate of mine decided he wanted to become a brewer in 2010. Offered his services for free to a small local brewery and after a few shifts got a full time job though it was low paid and with awful hours. Within 4 years he worked his way into a management job in a distillery getting 45k pa. It can be a mutually beneficial way for individuals to gain experience and employers to train and monitor an individuals suitability prior to entering into a contract of employment.

matty_f
18-06-2017, 06:14 PM
Unfortunately I know people who have worked for free for "experience". A bit exploitative if you ask me.

I disagree. It's a win-win for both parties, imho.

snooky
18-06-2017, 06:17 PM
can't see them getting any quality personnel to work for free.... anyone with the type of experience they are after will want paid for there services... even if the minimum wage...

Sounds like Yamonomics to me.

givescotlandfreedom
18-06-2017, 06:35 PM
We're a business. IMO we should be paying a wage.

Ozyhibby
18-06-2017, 06:41 PM
Football has always had people working for free. All the scouts out watching 8year olds games on a Sunday morning are unpaid. Last summer we had fans painting in the stadium for free and there are plenty of examples of fans clearing snow of a pitch etc.
It perfectly normal.


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offshorehibby
18-06-2017, 06:52 PM
As part of my nieces degree course year 3 was spent doing an years internship/secondment. She applied to Ernest Young, and got it.
She had her student loan/Grant this kept her for the year.

ON the back of this internship they offered her a job on completion of her degree. They also started putting her through a chartered accountancy course of their own back.

She starts in their London office in a couple of months. This all on the back of a years free labour.

Oh and a 1st class degree in International Business Management helped.

CapitalGreen
18-06-2017, 06:57 PM
As part of my nieces degree course year 3 was spent doing an years internship/secondment. She applied to Ernest Young, and got it.
She had her student loan/Grant this kept her for the year.

ON the back of this internship they offered her a job on completion of her degree. They also started putting her through a chartered accountancy course of their own back.

She starts in their London office in a couple of months. This all on the back of a years free labour.

Oh and a 1st class degree in International Business Management helped.

Ernst & Young didn't pay her for her years placement? I find that hard to believe.

SRHibs
18-06-2017, 06:59 PM
Sounds like it might suit Cathro.

danhibees1875
18-06-2017, 08:23 PM
Ernst & Young didn't pay her for her years placement? I find that hard to believe.

I work for a similar company who have several schemes of this nature (I was actually part of one of them) and everyone gets paid.

neil7908
18-06-2017, 09:30 PM
If you're doing a job you should at least be paid the minimum wage. Pretty simple IMO and not exactly huge sums of money involved.

Unpaid internships are a nonsense idea dreamed up by businesses to get free labour.

This sounds pretty close to an actual job, although I notice there are no specific weekly hours mentioned.

neil7908
18-06-2017, 09:33 PM
I disagree. It's a win-win for both parties, imho.

It's certainly a win for Hibs as we save a few Bob on a part time salary. It could be a win for whoever takes it but it's a gamble and that's my issue with internships - the power is all with the business. There could well be a great job available at the end, it does happen but I also know loads of cases where it hasn't.

weecounty hibby
18-06-2017, 09:39 PM
I have an intern from Edinburg Uni working for me for six months and he is definitely being paid. Hard to believe that we wouldn't at least pay this person the minimum wage.

patlowe
20-06-2017, 12:00 PM
An intern should be paid IMO. At the risk of getting political, the problem with not paying an intern is that people from a background where they can more readily access support (financial, social etc) are far more likely to be in a position to take up an opportunity like this. If you are from a less well off background, you are less likely to have the luxury of being able to work for free and therefore inequalities in the workplace are reinforced. This is not to even mention the advantages people from wealthy backgrounds have in terms of access to work opportunities through family links and cultural capital. I'd like to see the club (if possible) take a lead on issues such as this and the Living Wage - we have made so many strides in reconnecting the club with fans and these are ways to further strengthen our position in what is a traditionally working class community.

offshorehibby
20-06-2017, 12:05 PM
Ernst & Young didn't pay her for her years placement? I find that hard to believe.

Not to my knowledge but reading the further comments i'm probably wrong.

neil7908
20-06-2017, 12:31 PM
An intern should be paid IMO. At the risk of getting political, the problem with not paying an intern is that people from a background where they can more readily access support (financial, social etc) are far more likely to be in a position to take up an opportunity like this. If you are from a less well off background, you are less likely to have the luxury of being able to work for free and therefore inequalities in the workplace are reinforced. This is not to even mention the advantages people from wealthy backgrounds have in terms of access to work opportunities through family links and cultural capital. I'd like to see the club (if possible) take a lead on issues such as this and the Living Wage - we have made so many strides in reconnecting the club with fans and these are ways to further strengthen our position in what is a traditionally working class community.

Agree with this 100%. The Living Wage should be a priority IMO. It sends an important message for what the club should stand for and will cost us very little in the grand scheme of things.

Andy74
20-06-2017, 12:46 PM
Agree with this 100%. The Living Wage should be a priority IMO. It sends an important message for what the club should stand for and will cost us very little in the grand scheme of things.

So scouts, coaches etc who give some time to the club at evenings and weekends should get a wage?

Don't see the fuss. It's an offer of some interesting stuff to do for someone in a position to take it on.

Brightside
20-06-2017, 12:49 PM
Agree with this 100%. The Living Wage should be a priority IMO. It sends an important message for what the club should stand for and will cost us very little in the grand scheme of things.

You are miles off it..... the majority of coaches at the club just get expenses! These guys are not full time employees.

lucky
20-06-2017, 01:02 PM
If this is a post that Hibs require to fill it should be a paid post. This role is different from Scouts. This is being advertised as a job. For me Hibs are at it.

ancient hibee
20-06-2017, 01:56 PM
Could those in favour of this being a paid post not set up an arrangement to fund it?

lucky
20-06-2017, 02:03 PM
Could those in favour of this being a paid post not set up an arrangement to fund it?

We do already by buying STs, merchandise and shares

Velma Dinkley
20-06-2017, 02:13 PM
It seems like a work experience opportunity whereby one lucky person, who would like to embark on an exciting and rewarding career as a data analyst, will get the chance to learn the ropes and improve their job prospects. It's the kind of thing a lot of us have probably benefited from at some point.

seanoheimhin
20-06-2017, 02:14 PM
Disappointing to see some on here view this with their hibs hats firmly on their heads.

The reality is that this is an exploitative and exclusive practice. Unpaid internships rightly get such bad press because more often than not the only people who can afford to take one on come from wealthy backgrounds where they don't need to work for a wage.

Even if this was aimed at a student (questionable), how could someone who is already working part-time to support their studies out of necessity find the time for such a role?

Some also saying this is 'normal' practice. Thankfully unpaid internships are becoming less frequent, but just because something is normal doesn't mean it's desirable or right.

To reference a much maligned phrase, this is far from 'hibs class'.

Velma Dinkley
20-06-2017, 02:40 PM
Disappointing to see some on here view this with their hibs hats firmly on their heads.

The reality is that this is an exploitative and exclusive practice. Unpaid internships rightly get such bad press because more often than not the only people who can afford to take one on come from wealthy backgrounds where they don't need to work for a wage.

Even if this was aimed at a student (questionable), how could someone who is already working part-time to support their studies out of necessity find the time for such a role?

Some also saying this is 'normal' practice. Thankfully unpaid internships are becoming less frequent, but just because something is normal doesn't mean it's desirable or right.

To reference a much maligned phrase, this is far from 'hibs class'.

Someone who has completed their studies can continue to work part-time while taking advantage of the education and guidance they would get in a role such as this. Or the opportunity could be given to nobody. Some people will be desperate for a chance like this and other might feel that it's not for them but it would be a shame for their to be less opportunities for young people.

seanoheimhin
20-06-2017, 02:45 PM
Someone who has completed their studies can continue to work part-time while taking advantage of the education and guidance they would get in a role such as this. Or the opportunity could be given to nobody. Some people will be desperate for a chance like this and other might feel that it's not for them but it would be a shame for their to be less opportunities for young people.

Totally agree, but the club could and should be offering a wage.

Velma Dinkley
20-06-2017, 02:51 PM
Totally agree, but the club could and should be offering a wage.

I know plenty of companies that wouldn't even consider offering young people work placements because they feel too many resources would be used up through offering training and mentoring. This opportunity would likely be unsuitable for someone who already has the skills and experience to do the job unsupervised and without have to learn on the job. For someone else it could be the start of a great career that could set them up for life. Personally, I think it's positive.

Peevemor
20-06-2017, 06:11 PM
We almost always have somebody on work experience in our office. Most are people who have some sort of "in", ie. friend of a friend type stuff and ages range from 15 - 50 with different reasons for their needing work experience. Very recent examples include my friend's 16 year old autistic (aspergers) son and a 45 year old joiner with a dodgy back looking to change career.

Those that are there more than 3 weeks get paid (for us maybe 2-3 times a year) . The vast majority don't however they don't make us money either.

We do our best to give them experience that suits their individual needs.

I'm fortunate that I work for and with decent people and there's very much a politic of 'giving something back'. The only hint of exploitation to be found is our basically forcing people to bring us chocolates or cakes or an aperitif on their last day, which all of them do with pleasure.

neil7908
20-06-2017, 06:39 PM
So scouts, coaches etc who give some time to the club at evenings and weekends should get a wage?

Don't see the fuss. It's an offer of some interesting stuff to do for someone in a position to take it on.

Absolutely. If you're doing work for any business you should get paid. I believe that about any organisation and certainly don't think football clubs with multi million pound turnover should be exempt.

Don't think anyone's making a big fuss, just stating what they believe.

Living Wage is what £8.45 an hour outside London. Giving that to a group of people who do a few hours important work a week for the club would cost us very little but send a good message. We're not a charity, we're a business with folk earning 6 figure salaries, we can afford this.

neil7908
20-06-2017, 06:40 PM
Disappointing to see some on here view this with their hibs hats firmly on their heads.

The reality is that this is an exploitative and exclusive practice. Unpaid internships rightly get such bad press because more often than not the only people who can afford to take one on come from wealthy backgrounds where they don't need to work for a wage.

Even if this was aimed at a student (questionable), how could someone who is already working part-time to support their studies out of necessity find the time for such a role?

Some also saying this is 'normal' practice. Thankfully unpaid internships are becoming less frequent, but just because something is normal doesn't mean it's desirable or right.

To reference a much maligned phrase, this is far from 'hibs class'.

This sums up my feelings perfectly.

Brightside
20-06-2017, 06:53 PM
Absolutely. If you're doing work for any business you should get paid. I believe that about any organisation and certainly don't think football clubs with multi million pound turnover should be exempt.

Don't think anyone's making a big fuss, just stating what they believe.

Living Wage is what £8.45 an hour outside London. Giving that to a group of people who do a few hours important work a week for the club would cost us very little but send a good message. We're not a charity, we're a business with folk earning 6 figure salaries, we can afford this.

If we paid our coaches and scouts the living wage we wouldn't have many. We cannot afford them. They are a luxury for a team of our size as are Video analysts.

neil7908
20-06-2017, 07:21 PM
If we paid our coaches and scouts the living wage we wouldn't have many. We cannot afford them. They are a luxury for a team of our size as are Video analysts.

Genuinely curious here, roughly how many unpaid scouts and coaches do we have and how many hours a week are they doing for us?

Andy74
20-06-2017, 08:09 PM
If we paid our coaches and scouts the living wage we wouldn't have many. We cannot afford them. They are a luxury for a team of our size as are Video analysts.

Correct.

bob12345
20-06-2017, 08:34 PM
It's a very debatable topic with two sides to it. I think a lot depends on the content/structure of the internship. If it is a straight swap for what should be a paid job, then it should be paid. However a lot of businesses offer tailored internship programmes that involve ongoing training aimed at nurturing potential and taking them to the next level in whatever profession. I don't have an issue with these being unpaid.

The coaches being paid is unfortunately an overbearing issue with Scottish grassroots football. Unlike other countries, our coaches at even the biggest and best youth clubs are volunteers. This means if you are coaching at Hutchison Vale then get an offer to step up to Hibs and also have your expenses covered, it's a step up on both fronts. In my opinion all youth coaches at a certain level should be paid and therefore made accountable.

Velma Dinkley
20-06-2017, 08:42 PM
Btw one of my friends did some work experience similar to this. He is now head of data analytics at a top English premier league club. He mainly does analysis of potential recruitments and opposition prior to games. Hopefully whoever gets this opportunity will soon be head of data analytics for the Scottish premiership champions - and they'll still be at Hibs.

Ozyhibby
20-06-2017, 08:45 PM
It's a sad day when people are being put off volunteering. I volunteer as a footy coach about 10-12 hours a week and would not dream of asking for money for it.
Fact is, this role or a bit of scouting is just the type of thing I would love to do and would happily do for free but until Ozyhibby jnr finishes playing football I don't have the time.
People volunteering at the club is a good thing not just from a financial point of view, it helps embed a feeling of togetherness among all paid staff as well.
Who better to help new players etc understand what Hibs are all about than the people giving up their free time to help the club run well.
What next, minimum wage for the working together group? Living wage for the guys running HSL?
Fact is, without all these guys working for free, the jobs would just not get done. And we would be a lot poorer for it.



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Andy74
20-06-2017, 08:48 PM
It's a sad day when people are being put off volunteering. I volunteer as a footy coach about 10-12 hours a week and would not dream of asking for money for it.
Fact is, this role or a bit of scouting is just the type of thing I would love to do and would happily do for free but until Ozyhibby jnr finishes playing football I don't have the time.
People volunteering at the club is a good thing not just from a financial point of view, it helps embed a feeling of togetherness among all paid staff as well.
Who better to help new players etc understand what Hibs are all about than the people giving up their free time to help the club run well.
What next, minimum wage for the working together group? Living wage for the guys running HSL?
Fact is, without all these guys working for free, the jobs would just not get done. And we would be a lot poorer for it.



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Living wage for the non exec directors. Makes sense. 😉