Time to put the Brexit negotiations on hold

[Hibbyradge]

10 days before the most important negotiations in my lifetime take place, and we don't have a government.

May will be lucky to survive until they start, and even if/when she cobbles together a deal with the DUP, there's almost certainly going to be another election this year, and who knows what that might deliver.

The Brexit referendum result was created by the Conservative Party, ably assisted by UKIP. The total mess that the UK finds itself in this morning was created by the Conservative Party on their own.

The idea that MPs won't be allowed a vote on the outcome of negotiations is even more ludicrous than it was when we had a "strong and stable" government.

Brexit should be put on hold until we have a government.

[grunt]

10 days before the most important negotiations in my lifetime take place, and we don't have a government.

May will be lucky to survive until they start, and even if/when she cobbles together a deal with the DUP, there's almost certainly going to be another election this year, and who knows what that might deliver.

The Brexit referendum result was created by the Conservative Party, ably assisted by UKIP. The total mess that the UK finds itself in this morning was created by the Conservative Party on their own.

The idea that MPs won't be allowed a vote on the outcome of negotiations is even more ludicrous than it was when we had a "strong and stable" government.

Brexit should be put on hold until we have a government.Brexit should be stopped. David Mitchell on Channel 4 spoke for me last night.

[Mon Dieu4]

the Tories propped up by the orange order will keep the big hoose open

[CropleyWasGod]

the Tories propped up by the orange order will keep the big hoose open

It does seem that the cry is No Surrender.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

10 days before the most important negotiations in my lifetime take place, and we don't have a government.

May will be lucky to survive until they start, and even if/when she cobbles together a deal with the DUP, there's almost certainly going to be another election this year, and who knows what that might deliver.

The Brexit referendum result was created by the Conservative Party, ably assisted by UKIP. The total mess that the UK finds itself in this morning was created by the Conservative Party on their own.

The idea that MPs won't be allowed a vote on the outcome of negotiations is even more ludicrous than it was when we had a "strong and stable" government.

Brexit should be put on hold until we have a government.

Folk said the same about the tories and lib dems. Why wont it work, if the dup get what they want. Lots of Tory MPs would be very nervous about going to another poll i think...

[Jack]

Tories no longer have majority of seats but political arithmetic may deliver them a majority in Parliament:

650 seats - 7 seats held by Sinn Fein = 643 MPs attending House of Commons, requiring majority of 322

DUP have 10 MPs
Tories have 318

10 + 318 = 328 > 322

Perhaps the Irish Question is back on the Westminster table, with the interesting prospect that Sinn Fein could keep heads down until the time when they decide to bring down the British Government ... by parliamentary means.

[CropleyWasGod]

Folk said the same about the tories and lib dems. Why wont it work, if the dup get what they want. Lots of Tory MPs would be very nervous about going to another poll i think...

Presumably you mean in Brexit terms, but it's their other stances that bother me. Stolen from a social media letter that's doing the rounds:-

The DUP want to make it legal to discriminate against anyone from the LGBT community
The DUP want children to be taught creationism as scientific fact
The DUP want no woman to have access to any type of abortion, and furthermore criminalise anyone offering or seeking that service
The DUP want to bring back the death penalty

[Dan Sarf]

Presumably you mean in Brexit terms, but it's their other stances that bother me. Stolen from a social media letter that's doing the rounds:-

The DUP want to make it legal to discriminate against anyone from the LGBT community
The DUP want children to be taught creationism as scientific fact
The DUP want no woman to have access to any type of abortion, and furthermore criminalise anyone offering or seeking that service
The DUP want to bring back the death penalty


Yeah but apart from that they seem quite nice. :greengrin

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Presumably you mean in Brexit terms, but it's their other stances that bother me. Stolen from a social media letter that's doing the rounds:-

The DUP want to make it legal to discriminate against anyone from the LGBT community
The DUP want children to be taught creationism as scientific fact
The DUP want no woman to have access to any type of abortion, and furthermore criminalise anyone offering or seeking that service
The DUP want to bring back the death penalty

Not specifically, but they wont be daft enough to ruin their own chances by asking for things they know the tories cant deliver. I dont know what their asks will be, but if they get them, they have no reason to rock the boat.

[Moulin Yarns]

Not specifically, but they wont be daft enough to ruin their own chances by asking for things they know the tories cant deliver. I dont know what their asks will be, but if they get them, they have no reason to rock the boat.

A wall along the border. Paid for by the republic of Ireland.

[Hibbyradge]

A wall along the border. Paid for by the republic of Ireland.

:tee hee:

In truth, that's the last thing they want.

DUP leader Arlene Foster has said: “No-one wants to see a ‘hard’ Brexit, what we want to see is a workable plan to leave the European Union, and that’s what the national vote was about – therefore we need to get on with that.

“However, we need to do it in a way that respects the specific circumstances of Northern Ireland, and, of course, our shared history and geography with the Republic of Ireland.

"No-one wants to see a hard border, Sinn Fein talk about it a lot, but nobody wants a hard border.”

[High-On-Hibs]

If there's another election this year, then the tories will win a large majority. The youth won't carry the same momentum so soon after this one.

[Hibbyradge]

If there's another election this year, then the tories will win a large majority. The youth won't carry the same momentum so soon after this one.

Why?

[GlesgaeHibby]

If there's another election this year, then the tories will win a large majority. The youth won't carry the same momentum so soon after this one.

I think quite the opposite. They have now took 2 enormous gambles 12 months apart and both have backfired spectacularly. They've now jumped into bed with the DUP. Who's next as leader too? Boris? I suspect they will get what they deserve when we go back to the polls in a few months.

[BullsCloseHibs]

I think everyone, including Nicola S agrees that the best time to capitalise is when Brexit starts ruining the UK. Not now.

One day. It will happen.

[Colr]

Not specifically, but they wont be daft enough to ruin their own chances by asking for things they know the tories cant deliver. I dont know what their asks will be, but if they get them, they have no reason to rock the boat.

They'll be content to restrict the freedoms of the Northern Irish.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

They'll be content to restrict the freedoms of the Northern Irish.

If they are daft enough to vote for it.

I dont really try and make sense of NI politics, because by definition so much of it is not rational. But too many of them seem to revel in it.

[pacoluna]

I'm now willing to sit tight and watch the disaster unfold.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I'm now willing to sit tight and watch the disaster unfold.

What are you gonna do, stage a coup?

[pacoluna]

What are you gonna do, stage a coup?

Well considering I just said I'm willing to watch this disaster unfold suggests otherwise.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Well considering I just said I'm willing to watch this disaster unfold suggests otherwise.

Sorry, my mistake i thought you said im not willing, i misread it.

Apologies.

[Jack]

If there's another election this year, then the tories will win a large majority. The youth won't carry the same momentum so soon after this one.

Then it's the job of Labour to motivate them.

[Hibrandenburg]

I'm now willing to sit tight and watch the disaster unfold.

It might even be enjoyable from this distance.

[marinello59]

Ruth Davidson is apparently planning to push for a softer Brexit with access to the single market. This could be fun.

[hibsbollah]

If May had any sort of political nous she would consider forming a cross-party team to assist her in the negotiations. Then the other parties would all have their fingerprints all over the final deal and allow her to distance her self from the eventual outcome. The other parties would find it hard to publicly turn down the invitation in the face of being accused of being unpatriotic.

It might work, just hope her hipster advisor doesn't think of the idea...

[marinello59]

If May had any sort of political nous she would consider forming a cross-party team to assist her in the negotiations. Then the other parties would all have their fingerprints all over the final deal and allow her to distance her self from the eventual outcome. The other parties would find it hard to publicly turn down the invitation in the face of being accused of being unpatriotic.

It might work, just hope her hipster advisor doesn't think of the idea...

She can't do that, it's her way or nothing.

[PeeJay]

If they are daft enough to vote for it.

I dont really try and make sense of NI politics, because by definition so much of it is not rational. But too many of them seem to revel in it.

Had to smile at this - the UK has hardly excelled recently with "rational" poliltical thinking and decision-making on the part of its politicians or its electorate ... :greengrin

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

If May had any sort of political nous she would consider forming a cross-party team to assist her in the negotiations. Then the other parties would all have their fingerprints all over the final deal and allow her to distance her self from the eventual outcome. The other parties would find it hard to publicly turn down the invitation in the face of being accused of being unpatriotic.

It might work, just hope her hipster advisor doesn't think of the idea...

Agree with this.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Had to smile at this - the UK has hardly excelled recently with "rational" poliltical thinking and decision-making on the part of its politicians or its electorate ... :greengrin

Yeah, fair point mate!

[lord bunberry]

If May had any sort of political nous she would consider forming a cross-party team to assist her in the negotiations. Then the other parties would all have their fingerprints all over the final deal and allow her to distance her self from the eventual outcome. The other parties would find it hard to publicly turn down the invitation in the face of being accused of being unpatriotic.

It might work, just hope her hipster advisor doesn't think of the idea...
I think this is the only way forward. The government is so weak and could change during negotiations. For the good of the country a cross party negotiating team should be set up.

[Pretty Boy]

I think this is the only way forward. The government is so weak and could change during negotiations. For the good of the country a cross party negotiating team should be set up.

I'm not sure how palatable that would be to the anti Europe brigade in her own party. It seems to me that for those still wielding influence within the Conservatives it's a hard Brexit whatever the cost to their own party and the country as a whole.

First Cameron and now May have left us in one hell of a mess with their huge miscalculations.

[Colr]

I'm not sure how palatable that would be to the anti Europe brigade in her own party. It seems to me that for those still wielding influence within the Conservatives it's a hard Brexit whatever the cost to their own party and the country as a whole.

First Cameron and now May have left us in one hell of a mess with their huge miscalculations.

The whole **** up is about the internal fighting in the tory party. They've utterly screwed the economy on account of infighting and posturing. Who, now, can cast them as economically credible?

[grunt]

https://twitter.com/michaelwhite/status/873821944206032896

[Pretty Boy]

https://twitter.com/michaelwhite/status/873821944206032896

He's spot on.

I said the other night that the politics and election results of the UK in the 2010s are going to form very interesting and quite baffling material for historians in years to come.

[grunt]

He's spot on.I said the other night that the politics and election results of the UK in the 2010s are going to form very interesting and quite baffling material for historians in years to come.Agreed. I didn't really think it needed further comment, but here goes, anyway.

The line which really gets to me is this one:


52/48 ... a margin not normally wide enough to change the constitution of the average golf club ...

[heretoday]

I'm not sure how palatable that would be to the anti Europe brigade in her own party. It seems to me that for those still wielding influence within the Conservatives it's a hard Brexit whatever the cost to their own party and the country as a whole.

First Cameron and now May have left us in one hell of a mess with their huge miscalculations.

You're right and I thought it was pretty rich for Osborne to sit there this morning relishing May's predicament when his austerity policies are largely to blame for this shambles.

[Hibbyradge]

You're right and I thought it was pretty rich for Osborne to sit there this morning relishing May's predicament when his austerity policies are largely to blame for this shambles.

Cameron's decision to risk the future of our country by holding​ the EU referendum in order to outmanoeuvre UKIP is to blame.

[lord bunberry]

I'm not sure how palatable that would be to the anti Europe brigade in her own party. It seems to me that for those still wielding influence within the Conservatives it's a hard Brexit whatever the cost to their own party and the country as a whole.

First Cameron and now May have left us in one hell of a mess with their huge miscalculations.
I very much doubt it will happen for the reasons you state. This whole mess is driven by self interest.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Cameron's decision to risk the future of our country by holding​ the EU referendum in order to outmanoeuvre UKIP is to blame.

:agree:

We see regular opinion polls on indy ref but not Brexit (to my knowledge anyway). Wonder what way a Brexit vote would go now

[hibsbollah]

:agree:

We see regular opinion polls on indy ref but not Brexit (to my knowledge anyway). Wonder what way a Brexit vote would go now

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/03/29/attitudes-brexit-everything-we-know-so-far/

Sadly, most people would vote the same way, pre-April anyway.

[grunt]

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/03/29/attitudes-brexit-everything-we-know-so-far/

Sadly, most people would vote the same way, pre-April anyway.Give it time.

[Mr Grieves]

:agree:

We see regular opinion polls on indy ref but not Brexit (to my knowledge anyway). Wonder what way a Brexit vote would go now

There was an opinion poll released today with remain on 51%. Also has Labour on 45% compared to the tories 39%

http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Post-Election_Poll_June10.pdf

[Colr]

There was an opinion poll released today with remain on 51%. Also has Labour on 45% compared to the tories 39%

http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Post-Election_Poll_June10.pdf

I like the Hesteltine point that leave supporters have been disruptively trying to overturn the result of the 1973 referendum for 43years so why should remain supporters not behave similarly.

[hibsbollah]

I think we should all put petty squabbling aside and wish the Conservative and Unionist Negotiating Team the best of British luck.

[Hibrandenburg]

I think we should all put petty squabbling aside and wish the Conservative and Unionist Negotiating Team the best of British luck.

Naughty step for you. Don't think nobody noticed. :greengrin

[Hibbyradge]

Naughty step for you. Don't think nobody noticed. :greengrin

It's a goodie, and it's been doing the rounds.