Which is worse - tory government or second indy referendum?

[AgentDaleCooper]

just wondering what is motivating people most, and if there's anyone on here who would rather not vote SNP but is holding their nose.

[Jack]

I don't understand why a referendum vote is something to fight so hard against ... unless of course the Unionists are running scared.

And then the question would be why?

[Hibbyradge]

just wondering what is motivating people most, and if there's anyone on here who would rather not vote SNP but is holding their nose.
:confused:


Everyone who votes SNP will vote for option 1. All the Tories will vote option 2.

Unless the poll is for non-Tory and non-SNP supporters, the results will be meaningless. I think.

[JeMeSouviens]

Not sure if those of us who want a 2nd ref* were supposed to vote, but any excuse to stick it to the Tories seems good to me. :wink:



* actually I'm slightly ambivalent, I only want one if we're going to win it. I don't think I could stand another win for the crowing forces of North Britain, would probably have to emigrate.

[Pretty Boy]

Tory Government.

A 2nd referendum is needed to settle the issue for an extended period. Only then will we have an election in Scotland that isn't overshadowed by the constitutional question.

[AgentDaleCooper]

:confused:


Everyone who votes SNP will vote for option 1. All the Tories will vote option 2.

Unless the poll is for non-Tory and non-SNP supporters, the results will be meaningless. I think.

yeah, right enough...my intention was for non-tory/non-snp supporters, or, no voters who also don't want the tories in

[matty_f]

Tory government is worse hands down. If there's a second referendum folk who want to vote no can still do so. If the Tories get in again, we're ****ged.

[Hibs Class]

Tory Government.

A 2nd referendum is needed to settle the issue for an extended period. Only then will we have an election in Scotland that isn't overshadowed by the constitutional question.

So what was the first referendum for? I think we now know that if there was a second referendum and it didn't give the right result there would be prompt demands for a third referendum etc.

[Pretty Boy]

So what was the first referendum for? I think we now know that if there was a second referendum and it didn't give the right result there would be prompt demands for a third referendum etc.
Whether people like it or not Brexit was a gamechanger. The fact Scotland voted to remain in the EU makes that even more the case.

There's already a level of dissent to a 2nd referendum; a 3rd, whatever the outcome of the 2nd, wouldn't get off the ground.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[JimBHibees]

Whether people like it or not Brexit was a gamechanger. The fact Scotland voted to remain in the EU makes that even more the case.

There's already a level of dissent to a 2nd referendum; a 3rd, whatever the outcome of the 2nd, wouldn't get off the ground.

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Totally agree.

[Sir David Gray]

I'm sure if the second referendum goes against the wishes of the SNP then there will be a third vote just around the corner (and a 4th and 5th) until those people who have voted against it the previous twice have learned their lesson and have been whipped into submission.

I don't necessarily see independence referendums as good or bad, I just view them as an inevitable part of the Scottish political landscape for as long as Scotland remains a part of The Union with the SNP as the largest party. They won't let up until they get what they want.

[lord bunberry]

I'm sure if the second referendum goes against the wishes of the SNP then there will be a third vote just around the corner (and a 4th and 5th) until those people who have voted against it the previous twice have learned their lesson and have been whipped into submission.

I don't necessarily see independence referendums as good or bad, I just view them as an inevitable part of the Scottish political landscape for as long as Scotland remains a part of The Union with the SNP as the largest party. They won't let up until they get what they want.
I think that's lazy politics to say that. I 100% support independence, but I wouldn't support a third referendum and I doubt anyone else would either. Even David Cameron said a vote for brexit would be grounds for Indy 2.

[grunt]

Whether people like it or not Brexit was a gamechanger.


Totally agree.Agreed also.

[DaveF]

I think that's lazy politics to say that. I 100% support independence, but I wouldn't support a third referendum and I doubt anyone else would either. Even David Cameron said a vote for brexit would be grounds for Indy 2.

You are absolutely right and the stuff the previous poster wrote could have (and did often) spew forth from Davidson, Dugdale and that other guy who I forget.

Lazy stuff indeed.

[easty]

Whether people like it or not Brexit was a gamechanger. The fact Scotland voted to remain in the EU makes that even more the case.



In my opinion, everyone knows that's true, but there's some who just choose to ignore it.

[snooky]

I want to stay in the EU.
I don't want an independence ref until at least more than 60% of the peoples of Scotland want it.
I would like to see another EU ref without the downright lying in the campaigning. Thereafter at sometime in the future another indy ref. Again, without the downright lying on the campaigning.
I would like to see all newspapers banned. They can't be trusted to report the truth .... and you can throw in the BBC for the same reason.

[High-On-Hibs]

Scotland must be the only country (sorry, region!) in the world that fights so hard against it's own self determination. Imagine voting for anyone, regardless of who they are or what they stand for, just to stand in the way of your country getting another chance to choose control over it's own future.

It makes me sick to my back teeth if i'm being honest.

[weecounty hibby]

Scotland must be the only country (sorry, region!) in the world that fights so hard against it's own self determination. Imagine voting for anyone, regardless of who they are or what they stand for, just to stand in the way of your country getting another chance to choose control over it's own future.

It makes me sick to my back teeth if i'm being honest.
I'm with you on that but it's hard to change 300 years of the union and the belief that the stays quo is best overnight. Change is coming and although it may take a while longer Scotland will be independent some day. Hopefully I will be alive to see it as it genuinely has been a lifelong dream for me

[Slavers]

That's democracy, you don't always get what you want. Nae point in getting upset about an election result because it doesnt go the way you wanted.

[Lancs Harp]

I'm with you on that but it's hard to change 300 years of the union and the belief that the stays quo is best overnight. Change is coming and although it may take a while longer Scotland will be independent some day. Hopefully I will be alive to see it as it genuinely has been a lifelong dream for me

If Scotland wants to go its own way then fair enough, but its a bit romantic to talk about independance. No one has ever forced Scotland to be in the union.You make it sound like an occupied country. Get real.

[weecounty hibby]

If Scotland wants to go its own way then fair enough, but its a bit romantic to talk about independance. No one has ever forced Scotland to be in the union.You make it sound like an occupied country. Get real.

That's total pish. Show me where anything I said could be construed that way. It is difficult to change people's minds about anything. People dont like change and that is a fact. So being an independent country is all a bit romantic. Tell that to the Australians, Canadians, Indians etc.

[Pretty Boy]

Scotland must be the only country (sorry, region!) in the world that fights so hard against it's own self determination. Imagine voting for anyone, regardless of who they are or what they stand for, just to stand in the way of your country getting another chance to choose control over it's own future.

It makes me sick to my back teeth if i'm being honest.

So basically everyone should have voted SNP regardless of what other factors they took into consideration?

Given your rambling the other day about how you saw the good in Corbyn whilst us mere mortals criticised him I find this latest rant mildly amusing now that some people have actually went out and voted for the man.

[Pretty Boy]

That's democracy, you don't always get what you want. Nae point in getting upset about an election result because it doesnt go the way you wanted.

It's a common theme on here. Vote how I wanted you to or you're an idiot, ignorant etc etc.

Embarrassing.

[Lancs Harp]

That's total pish. Show me where anything I said could be construed that way. It is difficult to change people's minds about anything. People dont like change and that is a fact. So being an independent country is all a bit romantic. Tell that to the Australians, Canadians, Indians etc.

Its not total pish mate its an opinion. Just as valid as yours. You dont agree then fair enough or perhaps I should just shut up and nod at something I dont agree with?

None of the countries you cited have ever been in the union.

[weecounty hibby]

Yip, your opinion is every bit as valid as mine, the difference is I haven't tried to put words in your mouth or twist what you have said.

[Slavers]

Its not total pish mate its an opinion. Just as valid as yours. You dont agree then fair enough or perhaps I should just shut up and nod at something I dont agree with?

None of the countries you cited have ever been in the union.

Don't let facts get in the way! This is a fight against English tyranny don't you know!?

[Lancs Harp]

Don't let facts get in the way! This is a fight against English tyranny don't you know!?

I know, I apologise for the actions of my forbareres (did i spell that right?)

Have you paid for the repair of those goalposts yet?

[High-On-Hibs]

So basically everyone should have voted SNP regardless of what other factors they took into consideration?

Given your rambling the other day about how you saw the good in Corbyn whilst us mere mortals criticised him I find this latest rant mildly amusing now that some people have actually went out and voted for the man.

Actually, they went out and voted Tory by voting for him in most cases. They could have helped Labour at UK level by voting SNP.

[weecounty hibby]

I know, I apologise for the actions of my forbareres (did i spell that right?)

Have you paid for the repair of those goalposts yet?

I'll pay for them myself if you let us become independent!! Listen mate I didn't fall out with anyone during the referendums and any previous elections so don't mean to start now. Folks have different opinions, some come across as total fannies and if I did that I apologise.

[Pretty Boy]

Actually, they went out and voted Tory by voting for him in most cases. They could have helped Labour at UK level by voting SNP.

No, we went out and voted Labour.

Anyway time for bed for me, the predictable toys out the pram stuff is starting which is generally as good a time as any to call it a day.

Enjoy the rest of your night.:aok:

[marinello59]

Actually, they went out and voted Tory by voting for him in most cases. They could have helped Labour at UK level by voting SNP.

Oh dear. You really do struggle with democracy. :greengrin

[pacoluna]

Many natural labour voters returned to labour for this election I believe, still constitutionally nationalists however. Tories it's clear to see are rounding up the unionist vote . as I said before the yes movement is much bigger than any party.

[High-On-Hibs]

Oh dear. You really do struggle with democracy. :greengrin

Better than struggling with intelligence. I'm sure people wouldn't have voted for their local Labour candidate if they knew it was going to land them with a tory and ultimately a tory government at UK level.

[marinello59]

Better than struggling with intelligence. I'm sure people wouldn't have voted for their local Labour candidate if they knew it was going to land them with a tory and ultimately a tory government at UK level.

Here we go again, everybody who doesn't agree with you lacks your superior insight. :faf:

[High-On-Hibs]

Here we go again, everybody who doesn't agree with you lacks your superior insight. :faf:

You can't call it a lack of agreement. Because they're not getting what they voted for anyway. Or are you suggesting that they voted Labour because they wanted a tory MP and a tory government?

[Beefster]

Better than struggling with intelligence. I'm sure people wouldn't have voted for their local Labour candidate if they knew it was going to land them with a tory and ultimately a tory government at UK level.

In some cases, if folk had voted for Labour rather than the SNP, they wouldn't have ended up with a Tory MP. Believe it or not, most folk don't vote tactically though.

[Steve20]

I don't understand why a referendum vote is something to fight so hard against ... unless of course the Unionists are running scared.

And then the question would be why?

We had a referendum vote not even three years ago yet. And it was a comfortable No that won. There's no need for another just because the minority can't accept that.

[marinello59]

You can't call it a lack of agreement. Because they're not getting what they voted for anyway. Or are you suggesting that they voted Labour because they wanted a tory MP and a tory government?

Your last sentence there is more than a wee bit silly. This whole democracy thing really is hard for you. If only everybody would vote like you wanted them to.

[hibs0666]

I don't understand why a referendum vote is something to fight so hard against ... unless of course the Unionists are running scared.

And then the question would be why?

It's been held. You lost. Suck it up.

[pacoluna]

It's been held. You lost. Suck it up.

Because democracy is static.

[hibs0666]

Because democracy is static.

LOL you want a referendum on the back of a Brexit deal for which the negotiations have not even got out the traps. What a hoot!

We're not all zipped up the back. Your demands have got nothing to do with democracy, and more to do with the devotion of the zealot.

[pacoluna]

LOL you want a referendum on the back of a Brexit deal for which the negotiations have not even got out the traps. What a hoot!

We're not all zipped up the back. Your demands have got nothing to do with democracy, and more to do with the devotion of the zealot.
Very constructive in your debating skills I see.

[cabbageandribs1875]

I don't understand why a referendum vote is something to fight so hard against ... unless of course the Unionists are running scared.

And then the question would be why?



because some think that the 45% that voted yes should just walk away, leave it...that will not happen

[ronaldo7]

because some think that the 45% that voted yes should just walk away, leave it...that will not happen

Meanwhile, we have the Orange Order holding the balance of power in Westminster and are sporadically grouped in local councils in Scotland.