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heidtheba
04-06-2017, 07:37 PM
Hi all,
I really have this as an open question with no hidden agenda. We're currently building one of the very best Hibs teams I've ever seen. Lots of potential and lots of real experience. Do you think we're doing this on an even financial keel now that we've dealt with infrastructure issues and given the supporter contributions via ST sales etc or are we speculating a bit here in the hope that we continue this feel good feeling?
I'd love to know if, as far as we know, this standard is quite sustainable?
Thanks

brianmc
04-06-2017, 07:55 PM
Nah,I reckon we're spending way above our means, clearly banking on reaching the champions league - and if we don't, we're F knackered!!

Seriously though, what a strange OP.

So far we're several players lighter than we were, as a championship team, last year and you ask if we're spending beyond our means?

Leith Green
04-06-2017, 07:59 PM
For once we started at the point of having a decent squad . We are obviously now able to bring in better quality and not in such a rush to make signings..

heidtheba
04-06-2017, 08:01 PM
Nah,I reckon we're spending way above our means, clearly banking on reaching the champions league - and if we don't, we're F knackered!!

Seriously though, what a strange OP.

So far we're several players lighter than we were, as a championship team, last year and you ask if we're spending beyond our means?

Apologies - I thought I made it clear that this was a genuine 'open' question and not a dig at the club in any way. I always hoped that once the infrastructure was sorted then we could spent the income properly, this looks like it's happening that way. I just wanted to see what the residents on here thought.

That's all.

Col2
04-06-2017, 08:03 PM
Hi all,
I really have this as an open question with no hidden agenda. We're currently building one of the very best Hibs teams I've ever seen. Lots of potential and lots of real experience. Do you think we're doing this on an even financial keel now that we've dealt with infrastructure issues and given the supporter contributions via ST sales etc or are we speculating a bit here in the hope that we continue this feel good feeling?
I'd love to know if, as far as we know, this standard is quite sustainable?
Thanks

Hi ya pal.

Great OP. And thanks for sharing concern about our financial position.

Maybe we should be signing non league players who have had spells at Vauxhall Motors just like your club, sorry I meant the yams 😉🤡

We are doing just fine.

weecounty hibby
04-06-2017, 08:04 PM
For once we started at the point of having a decent squad . We are obviously now able to bring in better quality and not in such a rush to make signings..
That's a good point. For the first time in a long long time we don't have to build a team. We have the bones of a really good side already with the guys who have resigned and all we need to do is add a few high quality players. Our good cup runs recently and the frankly astounding average attendance last year with higher again this year looks like allowing us to pay higher signing on fees and wages than probably everyone except Celtic and the Huns. Onwards and upwards for the Hibees

heidtheba
04-06-2017, 08:06 PM
Wow - I never thought that a serious question would have been met with such ridicule.

Just for reference I've been a season ticket holder at Hibs in multiple years and a member on here since 2009. What I was really hoping for was a simple 'Yes, I think the club's now being run well and we're now more able to fund a really great team on the park given the income we generate'.

Admins, please feel free to delete this as people are taking it the wrong way and I really didn't intend that to happen.

Deansy
04-06-2017, 08:07 PM
Nope - RP did say that once the redevelopement of ER was complete then the next stage was putting a team on the field to match the stadium. Think that's what's happening now - fasten your seat-belts coz it's going to be wild !

hibs0666
04-06-2017, 08:18 PM
Hi all,
I really have this as an open question with no hidden agenda. We're currently building one of the very best Hibs teams I've ever seen. Lots of potential and lots of real experience. Do you think we're doing this on an even financial keel now that we've dealt with infrastructure issues and given the supporter contributions via ST sales etc or are we speculating a bit here in the hope that we continue this feel good feeling?
I'd love to know if, as far as we know, this standard is quite sustainable?
Thanks

The guunts saw their turnover increase by £2.9 million, from £7 million to £9.9 million, on their return to the top league.

Our last reported turnover, for the cup winning season (I just love typing that), was £7 million. I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that our turnover will increase to over £9 million next season.

This means that we will be able to afford a wage bill in the region of £5 million - up by a third on what we were able to pay in the season when we won the cup.

So yes, the standard of player we are aiming for is perfectly in line with the improved financial performance we are seeing at the club.

MyJo
04-06-2017, 08:21 PM
I don't believe we are living beyond our means.

We have minimal debt
complete stadium and training ground both fully paid for and owned by the club
record level of season ticket holders
great attendances where we have (genuinely) sold out games several times over the last couple of seasons
lots of money spinning cup runs & wins
money from winning the championship
guaranteed TV income from being back in the premiership
up to 6 category A games at easter road in the coming season
strong sponsorship deals & partnerships
an engaged fanbase spending money on merchandise
Players of genuine quality in the squad with real value that will ultimately bring several million pounds into the club when they move on
A strong batch of youngsters working thier way through the academy.

The club is in a fantastic place at long last and we got here without spending money we dont have.

Leith Green
04-06-2017, 08:22 PM
The guunts saw their turnover increase by £2.9 million, from £7 million to £9.9 million, on their return to the top league.

Our last reported turnover, for the cup winning season (I just love typing that), was £7 million. I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that our turnover will increase to over £9 million next season.

This means that we will be able to afford a wage bill in the region of £5 million - up by a third on what we were able to pay in the season when we won the cup.

So yes, the standard of player we are aiming for is perfectly in line with the improved financial performance we are seeing at the club.

Lets not forget we are also out of the cycle of having to pay off dud signings and poor managers every year, that will also help the budget quite a bit

Lee Marvin
04-06-2017, 08:24 PM
Some really poor replies to this OP. It's a valid question.

Personal opinion is I think this is where we are now as a club. No stadium to pay for, no training centre, no independent creditors to finance, record season ticket sales and merchandising, monthly direct debits.

We can direct the majority of our turnover to where it truely matters now, the pitch.

Look oot the SPL, the hibees are coming!!

WhileTheChief..
04-06-2017, 08:26 PM
Why's the OP getting such a hard time? Oh no, he might be a Hearts fan, jings crivens.

On topic, I don't think we wouldn't be doing anything that endangers the club at all. Living well within our means.

I agree we're building a decent squad and this is one of the best times I can remember being a Hibs fan. Long may it continue.

Billy Whizz
04-06-2017, 08:26 PM
Some really poor replies to this OP. It's a valid question.

Personal opinion is I think this is where we are now as a club. No stadium to pay for, no training centre, no independent creditors to finance, record season ticket sales and merchandising, monthly direct debits.

We can direct the majority of our turnover to where it truely matters now, the pitch.

Look oot the SPL, the hibees are coming!!

Premiership, not the SPL

jacomo
04-06-2017, 11:07 PM
Some really poor replies to this OP. It's a valid question.

Personal opinion is I think this is where we are now as a club. No stadium to pay for, no training centre, no independent creditors to finance, record season ticket sales and merchandising, monthly direct debits.

We can direct the majority of our turnover to where it truely matters now, the pitch.

Look oot the SPL, the hibees are coming!!


:agree:

Ever rising attendances plus Hampden pay days has meant being in the Championship has not been ruinous. Hibs even turning in slight profits despite big investment in playing squad, backroom and development teams. Maintaining top league prices has helped of course.

Scottish Cup win worth a lot on its own of course.

HSL also helping. Yes we are paying off loan to STF but additional money also going into playing squad.

We have not been over-extending ourselves but we have spent increased income well.

This means we go into the summer in a really strong position. Good squad with a budget to strengthen where needed.

Greencore
04-06-2017, 11:25 PM
If all else fails we could tempt fans with chips.

All the big teams are doing it.

mca
04-06-2017, 11:39 PM
I don't believe we are living beyond our means.

We have minimal debt
complete stadium and training ground both fully paid for and owned by the club
record level of season ticket holders
great attendances where we have (genuinely) sold out games several times over the last couple of seasons
lots of money spinning cup runs & wins
money from winning the championship
guaranteed TV income from being back in the premiership
up to 6 category A games at easter road in the coming season
strong sponsorship deals & partnerships
an engaged fanbase spending money on merchandise
Players of genuine quality in the squad with real value that will ultimately bring several million pounds into the club when they move on
A strong batch of youngsters working thier way through the academy.

The club is in a fantastic place at long last and we got here without spending money we dont have.


Some really poor replies to this OP. It's a valid question.

Personal opinion is I think this is where we are now as a club. No stadium to pay for, no training centre, no independent creditors to finance, record season ticket sales and merchandising, monthly direct debits.

We can direct the majority of our turnover to where it truely matters now, the pitch.

Look oot the SPL, the hibees are coming!!


Petrie... :grr:

Speedway
04-06-2017, 11:43 PM
The metric is 60% of turnover should go on wages for the entire club as a maximum.

If we're doing about £8m this year then that's about £5.4m in wages so no, I don't think we've got an overspend concern based on those rough numbers.

Hfcwilson3192
04-06-2017, 11:44 PM
Wow - I never thought that a serious question would have been met with such ridicule.

Just for reference I've been a season ticket holder at Hibs in multiple years and a member on here since 2009. What I was really hoping for was a simple 'Yes, I think the club's now being run well and we're now more able to fund a really great team on the park given the income we generate'.

Admins, please feel free to delete this as people are taking it the wrong way and I really didn't intend that to happen.

It's actually embarrassing how some folk have reacted to what a thought was a decent question haha we are signing players who were previously on double figure wages. I can't imagine they've all tane wage cuts to come to us. Never knew so much board of directors had accounts on hibs forms either lol

Ozyhibby
05-06-2017, 12:00 AM
The guunts saw their turnover increase by £2.9 million, from £7 million to £9.9 million, on their return to the top league.

Our last reported turnover, for the cup winning season (I just love typing that), was £7 million. I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that our turnover will increase to over £9 million next season.

This means that we will be able to afford a wage bill in the region of £5 million - up by a third on what we were able to pay in the season when we won the cup.

So yes, the standard of player we are aiming for is perfectly in line with the improved financial performance we are seeing at the club.

Our turnover for last season will likely be over £8m even though we were still in the championship. Massively increased crowds and income from Cup winning merchandising etc will have given the figures a boost.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

CMurdoch
05-06-2017, 12:34 AM
Hibs

Don't have to finance any large costly infrastructure projects
Don't have to pay of duff players or management staff
Have a wage structure within our means
Have an interest free loan of £4 million which is being paid back at £500k per season which is well within our means.
This season we will have a record number of season ticket holders of at least 13,000 with correspondingly high average attendances, circa 17,500.
The supporters own almost a third of the club shareholding and this will continue to rise.
Have £4 million of assets in McGinn and Cummings with both on reasonable length contracts.

In conclusion the club has never ever been in better financial shape :flag::flag::flag:

AgentDaleCooper
05-06-2017, 12:35 AM
i did some spectacularly amateur maths the other night, and figured that if we were usually getting 8-9k STs, and are looking like we could be getting over 12k, that's pretty much an extra million in the bank each season - that'll go a long way. if the top earners earn...and i'm picking a figure out me erse here...but 2.5k a week, that's over 7 wages covered, or 5 plus a couple of big signing on fees. it's basically the equivalent to selling one of our best players in terms of windfall...if we are able to keep this up, the upward spiral will truly keep going, as all we have to spend money on now is the team on the pitch. very exciting times IMO.

all of the above is probably complete rubbish, but it's very nice to be able to think about these things with such optimism :aok:


:flag::flag::flag:

TrinityHibs
05-06-2017, 06:06 AM
I don't believe we are living beyond our means.

We have minimal debt
complete stadium and training ground both fully paid for and owned by the club
record level of season ticket holders
great attendances where we have (genuinely) sold out games several times over the last couple of seasons
lots of money spinning cup runs & wins
money from winning the championship
guaranteed TV income from being back in the premiership
up to 6 category A games at easter road in the coming season
strong sponsorship deals & partnerships
an engaged fanbase spending money on merchandise
Players of genuine quality in the squad with real value that will ultimately bring several million pounds into the club when they move on
A strong batch of youngsters working thier way through the academy.

The club is in a fantastic place at long last and we got here without spending money we dont have.

Thats all well and good but I have genuine concerns about the quality of the chips

heidtheba
05-06-2017, 08:41 AM
It's actually embarrassing how some folk have reacted to what a thought was a decent question haha we are signing players who were previously on double figure wages. I can't imagine they've all tane wage cuts to come to us. Never knew so much board of directors had accounts on hibs forms either lol

Thank you - was utterly horrified at some responses.
My 'take' on things were we were now about to real the rewards of doing things correctly. We have (and will always be) a selling club, but at least we now don't have to sell in order to fund infrastructure. I don't understand how share options work and whether we have to pay out an amount of profit to shareholders, I know we still have some debt but that all seems serviceable.
I hoped I'd simply get clarification of that 'Football Manager' nirvana of only having to focus on financing the team on the field (and the manager and Leeann). It seems like we're spending properly now. As many said before, we have a good basis for a team and don't need an overhaul. I actually look at the Fyvie situation as a strong one, more along the lines of we offer what we want given the amount he might play, rather than desperately cling on to on of the (in seasons past) few good players we had - can you imagine this scenario in the Fenlon/Butcher era?
It's great to think that this is the standard we can be looking forward to for the forseeable. Efe's signing caught me by surprise, didn't expect to get him on two years, and, with the possible exception of Sercombe (who I simply don't know much about) we seem to be filling spaces with real quality all over the shop. We've spent significant cash on a manager, Leeann, Swanson, Efe, have recently given good contracts to Cummings and McGinn AND still seem to be looking at Whittaker - that's a lot of cash. Great to think that finally this is what we can be doing, in a sustainable way with the infrastructure sorted - the kind of thing that lot over the road should have done when they 'had cash' (owed it to themselves/Lady Haig etc etc).
THIS is the moment I've been waiting for for a long time. I remember discussing Hearts purchase of Neil McCann, Jim Hamilton and some other pretty decent player at a time when we were in for at least McCann and had to go down the route of people like Jamie McQuilken etc because we were paying for stands and they weren't.
In summary, all I was really hoping for was 'yep, this is us for the future'.
Thanks to those who answered that.

Keith_M
05-06-2017, 09:12 AM
Hibs will not be taking on any new debt, and frankly they don't need to.

Season Ticket sales are at an unprecedented level, we just had out highest average league attendance in 44 years (despite not having a single game against the uglies or Hearts), we already have a completed stadium with fantastically kitted out main stand(unlike hearts), we own our own training centre(ditto) and will now have the boost of much higher income from being in the Premier League*.


Also the club is now roughly 33% owned by the fans or fans groups, due to the ongoing share issue, Hearts, on the other hand, have not released one single share under their share issue and still have no concrete date set for such an event.


What's not to like? :dunno:



* 'The Premiership' is a name lazily nicked from the English leagues due to the SPFL's lack of imagination and I refuse to use that term.

Drumlanrig
05-06-2017, 10:28 AM
Hi ya pal.

Great OP. And thanks for sharing concern about our financial position.

Maybe we should be signing non league players who have had spells at Vauxhall Motors just like your club, sorry I meant the yams 😉🤡

We are doing just fine.

Calm down pal , have you missed your medication?

The guy asked a perfectly reasonable question that has prompted some good discussion.

Dashing Bob S
05-06-2017, 11:25 AM
We will now have almost double the average attendances we had two years ago.

Smartie
05-06-2017, 11:32 AM
We will now have almost double the average attendances we had two years ago.

I was quietly concerned 2 years ago.

Our finances have always been well run but it looked to me like we were taking a bit of a gamble to get back into the top flight.

Until the cup win our attendances hadn't been great for a few years.

I couldn't work out how we were going from signing the crap that we had been signing year on year in the Premier League to getting players like Fyvie, McGeouch, McGregor, Fontaine and McGinn to play for us in the Championship. Given the pedigree that these players had before joining Hibs, they can't have been bargain basement signings.

I had a quiet wee wtf to myself when we signed Stokes too, although since we were pushing Rangers quite close at that point I thought it was a risk worth taking.

I actually thought Lennon's spending for last season seemed a bit conservative, and had we failed to get promotion it might have backfired.

I am not concerned now though. We'll get a lift in revenue from being promoted and I'm sure our spending will be carefully budgeted for, even if we have to stick a few quid by for a rainy day.

Col2
05-06-2017, 11:37 AM
Calm down pal , have you missed your medication?

The guy asked a perfectly reasonable question that has prompted some good discussion.

This wasn't me who posted it. It's was my alter ego....

Still think our financial position is fine. And still think the OP was at it.

heidtheba
05-06-2017, 11:44 AM
This wasn't me who posted it. It's was my alter ego....

Still think our financial position is fine. And still think the OP was at it.

Nope - and I resisted the temptation to suggest that belittling someone for asking about financial security is far more yam mentality than not asking about it. I even thought I'd clearly said that it was a question asked without a hidden agenda. I apologise if it came across as stirring but it wasn't. I got the answer I wanted from those who replied thoughtfully. You are more that welcome to check back over my previous posts if you wish to check my credibility.

Deansy
05-06-2017, 11:49 AM
Thank you - was utterly horrified at some responses.
My 'take' on things were we were now about to real the rewards of doing things correctly. We have (and will always be) a selling club, but at least we now don't have to sell in order to fund infrastructure. I don't understand how share options work and whether we have to pay out an amount of profit to shareholders, I know we still have some debt but that all seems serviceable.
I hoped I'd simply get clarification of that 'Football Manager' nirvana of only having to focus on financing the team on the field (and the manager and Leeann). It seems like we're spending properly now. As many said before, we have a good basis for a team and don't need an overhaul. I actually look at the Fyvie situation as a strong one, more along the lines of we offer what we want given the amount he might play, rather than desperately cling on to on of the (in seasons past) few good players we had - can you imagine this scenario in the Fenlon/Butcher era?
It's great to think that this is the standard we can be looking forward to for the forseeable. Efe's signing caught me by surprise, didn't expect to get him on two years, and, with the possible exception of Sercombe (who I simply don't know much about) we seem to be filling spaces with real quality all over the shop. We've spent significant cash on a manager, Leeann, Swanson, Efe, have recently given good contracts to Cummings and McGinn AND still seem to be looking at Whittaker - that's a lot of cash. Great to think that finally this is what we can be doing, in a sustainable way with the infrastructure sorted - the kind of thing that lot over the road should have done when they 'had cash' (owed it to themselves/Lady Haig etc etc).
THIS is the moment I've been waiting for for a long time. I remember discussing Hearts purchase of Neil McCann, Jim Hamilton and some other pretty decent player at a time when we were in for at least McCann and had to go down the route of people like Jamie McQuilken etc because we were paying for stands and they weren't.
In summary, all I was really hoping for was 'yep, this is us for the future'.
Thanks to those who answered that.

The way I look at it is, it's not so much of 'reaping the rewards for doing things correctly' and more like the Board/RP/Hibs are repaying the fans for their continued fantastic support throughout the stadium-redevelopement years, a redevelopement that saw the standard of player/team/manager possibly at it's lowest level ever !'. Considering some of the teams/players and managers we've had to endure over the last 10-15 years - at the same time as trying to compete with our neighbours who were living it large on 'Other People's Money' - it's testament to the support we've got, that they still turned out in such large numbers/bought season-tickets etc - there's not many clubs who have such a loyal-support like ours !

matty_f
05-06-2017, 12:57 PM
We've got ourselves into a position where we can invest on the playing squad. It's been a long, hard slog to get to this point but you can guarantee that if we're spending money it is because we can afford to.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
05-06-2017, 01:32 PM
The way i look at it is that we can now afford to lose players for free through contracts running down (if we choose to) amd any big transfers we do get can mostly be reinvested in the team, or certainly a big chunk of them. That could make a big difference if we had another bunch of cracking young players coming through, or even if we sold mcginn and cummings for example ( if we got 2m each, there is no reason we couldn't reinvest that 2m in the team.

BSEJVT
06-06-2017, 10:53 AM
There is absolutely no chance whatsoever that we are spending beyond our present means.

What we have the chance to do is complete the circle with supporter engagement at an all time high and a decent team on the park bouncing of each other and taking us higher and higher as we have seen.

The one long term fly in the ointment is that when the new shares are fully subscribed the HSL monies and individual share purchase monies will dry up unless a way can be found to continue the former, I don't believe there to be any way to continue the latter other than by individual donations which would be unwieldy and expensive to administer for smaller payments.

I don't know the amounts handed over by HSL on a regular basis but I would expect them to be dwarfed by the increased season ticket numbers so its maybe not that big a deal.

Its a great time to be a Hibby, spread the word

ps.

£6.25pm to Leith links buys a child's season ticket for a child that otherwise wouldn't get the chance to see them.

If you can afford that per month by standing order it would be great if you could do so.

We truly are a community club (rather than just saying we are) and reading some of the thank you letters posted from people who have received them would bring a tear to a glass eye.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
06-06-2017, 10:55 AM
There is absolutely no chance whatsoever that we are spending beyond our present means.

What we have the chance to do is complete the circle with supporter engagement at an all time high and a decent team on the park bouncing of each other and taking us higher and higher as we have seen.

The one long term fly in the ointment is that when the new shares are fully subscribed the HSL monies and individual share purchase monies will dry up unless a way can be found to continue the former, I don't believe there to be any way to continue the latter other than by individual donations which would be unwieldy and expensive to administer for smaller payments.

I don't know the amounts handed over by HSL on a regular basis but I would expect them to be dwarfed by the increased season ticket numbers so its maybe not that big a deal.

Its a great time to be a Hibby, spread the word

ps.

£6.25pm to Leith links buys a child's season ticket for a child that otherwise wouldn't get the chance to see them.

If you can afford that per month by standing order it would be great if you could do so.

We truly are a community club (rather than just saying we are) and reading some of the thank you letters posted from people who have received them would bring a tear to a glass eye.

I think HSL are hoping to continue donations arent they? I certainly habe kept my direct debits going even after completing the mbrshp payment, and would hope that will continue.

heidtheba
06-06-2017, 11:05 AM
I know this was mentioned in a different thread a while back but does it make more financial sense to deal with the debt as soon as possible? Once this amount gets paid off, which seems under control and 'pretty easy' to pay off tbh, is that us done and dusted? Would we then be able to invest every penny of any transfer sales right back into the club (aside from sell-on clauses etc)?
In short, although the time between the League Cup win and the Cup win was generally utterly c&*p, haven't we put ourselves in a position of real strength unlike almost every other club in the country?

ian cruise
06-06-2017, 11:11 AM
I know this was mentioned in a different thread a while back but does it make more financial sense to deal with the debt as soon as possible? Once this amount gets paid off, which seems under control and 'pretty easy' to pay off tbh, is that us done and dusted? Would we then be able to invest every penny of any transfer sales right back into the club (aside from sell-on clauses etc)?
In short, although the time between the League Cup win and the Cup win was generally utterly c&*p, haven't we put ourselves in a position of real strength unlike almost every other club in the country?

The debt, as I understand it, is interest free so paying it off as we are allows us to build a strong team now and when the debt is paid of in time, we've an even stronger base to build upon. We could pay it off earlier but it could mean missing out on better players unnecessarily now.

DarlingtonHibee
06-06-2017, 11:13 AM
There is absolutely no chance whatsoever that we are spending beyond our present means.

What we have the chance to do is complete the circle with supporter engagement at an all time high and a decent team on the park bouncing of each other and taking us higher and higher as we have seen.

The one long term fly in the ointment is that when the new shares are fully subscribed the HSL monies and individual share purchase monies will dry up unless a way can be found to continue the former, I don't believe there to be any way to continue the latter other than by individual donations which would be unwieldy and expensive to administer for smaller payments.

I don't know the amounts handed over by HSL on a regular basis but I would expect them to be dwarfed by the increased season ticket numbers so its maybe not that big a deal.

Its a great time to be a Hibby, spread the word

ps.

£6.25pm to Leith links buys a child's season ticket for a child that otherwise wouldn't get the chance to see them.

If you can afford that per month by standing order it would be great if you could do so.

We truly are a community club (rather than just saying we are) and reading some of the thank you letters posted from people who have received them would bring a tear to a glass eye.

Sent PM, but is there a link to set up a standing order.

CropleyWasGod
06-06-2017, 11:14 AM
I know this was mentioned in a different thread a while back but does it make more financial sense to deal with the debt as soon as possible? Once this amount gets paid off, which seems under control and 'pretty easy' to pay off tbh, is that us done and dusted? Would we then be able to invest every penny of any transfer sales right back into the club (aside from sell-on clauses etc)?
In short, although the time between the League Cup win and the Cup win was generally utterly c&*p, haven't we put ourselves in a position of real strength unlike almost every other club in the country?

It's over £4m, so hardly "easy" to pay off.

CallumLaidlaw
06-06-2017, 11:14 AM
I know this was mentioned in a different thread a while back but does it make more financial sense to deal with the debt as soon as possible? Once this amount gets paid off, which seems under control and 'pretty easy' to pay off tbh, is that us done and dusted? Would we then be able to invest every penny of any transfer sales right back into the club (aside from sell-on clauses etc)?
In short, although the time between the League Cup win and the Cup win was generally utterly c&*p, haven't we put ourselves in a position of real strength unlike almost every other club in the country?

The debt is interest free so the club probably think it makes more sense to pay these amounts off as per the agreement so as not to eat into the regular cashflow.

DarlingtonHibee
06-06-2017, 11:20 AM
It's over £4m, so hardly "easy" to pay off.

Cwg, is it still £500k per season? Edit per annum.

CropleyWasGod
06-06-2017, 11:31 AM
Cwg, is it still £500k per season? Edit per annum.

As far as I know, yep.

NAE NOOKIE
06-06-2017, 11:48 AM
Cwg, is it still £500k per season? Edit per annum.


As far as I know, yep.

Its a fair chunk ..... but the upside is that eventually it will be paid off and that 500K will be getting ploughed into the playing side, its not so bad a position to be in. I'm willing to bet that about 90% of clubs in the UK would be delighted to say their total debt amounted to an interest free £4,000,000.

With a superb take up of season tickets for next season and the addition of better TV money, sponsorship deals and bigger away supports we must be in a pretty decent position at the moment. What we have to guard against is projecting future spending on the basis of crowds of 16 and 17 thousand. This is a golden age for Hibs at the moment and history would dictate that we will be very very fortunate to sustain such crowds over a long period of time ... we should always plan our finances based on a worse case scenario.

Eyrie
06-06-2017, 07:58 PM
I think HSL are hoping to continue donations arent they? I certainly habe kept my direct debits going even after completing the mbrshp payment, and would hope that will continue.

According to Q15 (.net) and Q8 (the Bounce) here (http://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/faq.html), they can only collect money for as long as there are shares left to purchase.

You can keep paying into HSL however until that point is reached. I've recently started contributions on that basis having previously made a single payment to join.

Lancs Harp
06-06-2017, 08:11 PM
But we'll never be truly totally solvent and in the financial big league until we adopt the baking cakes and selling them in the club carpark strategy.

I believe Real Madrid started by selling tapas.

CMurdoch
06-06-2017, 08:25 PM
Its a fair chunk ..... but the upside is that eventually it will be paid off and that 500K will be getting ploughed into the playing side, its not so bad a position to be in. I'm willing to bet that about 90% of clubs in the UK would be delighted to say their total debt amounted to an interest free £4,000,000.

With a superb take up of season tickets for next season and the addition of better TV money, sponsorship deals and bigger away supports we must be in a pretty decent position at the moment. What we have to guard against is projecting future spending on the basis of crowds of 16 and 17 thousand. This is a golden age for Hibs at the moment and history would dictate that we will be very very fortunate to sustain such crowds over a long period of time ... we should always plan our finances based on a worse case scenario.

I agree with your golden age comment and expect this season to be the peak of our average attendances.
I suspect it will fall of slightly over the following years as the hard to please get bored with top 5 finishes.
There is a little bit of me that would like to use half the money we eventually receive for the sales of Cummings and McGinn to pay off the £4 million debt in 4 years instead of 8 given we don't know how long the large crowd will keep rolling up.

Lancs Harp
06-06-2017, 08:47 PM
Obviously the football is the bottom line, what drives the organisation.

But football is ever changing, the club seems to recognise its role in the community and the link between that community and the football club. The club has done sterling work in recent seasons (Leanne inspired and driven) in developing this. More work can be done though, making the match day experience about more than just the match, give fans a real sense of belonging, team, fans and community as one.

I dont necessarily think that attendances will slip off after a season of possible 4th/5th place finishes and its up to the club to work hard to ensure that they dont. Grow on what we have achieved, dont stand still both on the pitch and off it.

surreyhibbie
07-06-2017, 10:21 AM
But we'll never be truly totally solvent and in the financial big league until we adopt the baking cakes and selling them in the club carpark strategy.

I believe Real Madrid started by selling tapas.

..and chips...

BSEJVT
07-06-2017, 06:01 PM
I have continued to pay as well after my share purchase commitment ended

I have my doubts whether within the terms of their legal framework they can continue to accept donations when there are no more shares to purchase

I am sure when it gets to that point their will be an option to continue with those contributions in another guise

Arch Stanton
08-06-2017, 07:27 AM
But we'll never be truly totally solvent and in the financial big league until we adopt the baking cakes and selling them in the club carpark strategy.

I believe Real Madrid started by selling tapas.

Indeed, we do have a lot to learn from these big teams.

For instance, Hearts have massive underfunding for their new stand yet still manage to have contingency built in for budget overruns! It's just so mind-boggingly stupendous.

allezsauzee
08-06-2017, 07:33 AM
But we'll never be truly totally solvent and in the financial big league until we adopt the baking cakes and selling them in the club carpark strategy.

I believe Real Madrid started by selling tapas.

Don't forget the Bernabeu "cash bull"

PatHead
09-06-2017, 09:57 AM
We could do with people contributing to Hsl

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
09-06-2017, 10:03 AM
According to Q15 (.net) and Q8 (the Bounce) here (http://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/faq.html), they can only collect money for as long as there are shares left to purchase.

You can keep paying into HSL however until that point is reached. I've recently started contributions on that basis having previously made a single payment to join.

I see.

Well in that case i hope some sort of supporters trust will be created afterwards that i can continue to pay into.

Sean1875
09-06-2017, 11:16 AM
I agree with your golden age comment and expect this season to be the peak of our average attendances.
I suspect it will fall of slightly over the following years as the hard to please get bored with top 5 finishes.
There is a little bit of me that would like to use half the money we eventually receive for the sales of Cummings and McGinn to pay off the £4 million debt in 4 years instead of 8 given we don't know how long the large crowd will keep rolling up.

You could argue though that if we invested that £500,000 into the playing squad instead of paying off the debt early then we could see better players at ER playing well which would keep the larger crowds entertained and the feel good factor going for longer - were in a great situation now where the fans have never felt so connected to the club with record levels of season tickets a certainty for this season, definitely makes sense to keep the level of player at the club up instead of paying off an interest free loan early IMo

HUTCHYHIBBY
09-06-2017, 11:24 AM
..and chips...

The Yams are just selling the chips from their fans shoulders, 400,000 chips will take that lassie with the Romanov out flag at her windae a week to polish off.

heidtheba
09-06-2017, 03:33 PM
I agree with your golden age comment and expect this season to be the peak of our average attendances.
I suspect it will fall of slightly over the following years as the hard to please get bored with top 5 finishes.
There is a little bit of me that would like to use half the money we eventually receive for the sales of Cummings and McGinn to pay off the £4 million debt in 4 years instead of 8 given we don't know how long the large crowd will keep rolling up.

You could argue though that if we invested that £500,000 into the playing squad instead of paying off the debt early then we could see better players at ER playing well which would keep the larger crowds entertained and the feel good factor going for longer - were in a great situation now where the fans have never felt so connected to the club with record levels of season tickets a certainty for this season, definitely makes sense to keep the level of player at the club up instead of paying off an interest free loan early IMo

See this is why I asked the question in the first place. It would actually make sense to me to keep the ST sales up and 'feel-good factor' around the club by maybe (sensibly) speculating to accumulate by pushing the boat out a little for playing staff. That doesn't mean running at a risky loss, but potentially spending more than we otherwise would had we not had the last thirteen months and the positives from it. I could understand AND accept that as an acceptable financial strategy. I know the club's now being run far more effectively so wouldn't have worried about it being like in the McLeish overspend years.

On the other hand, if we can afford what we're buying now and NOT running at that 'pushing the boat out' level I mentioned above...then that's a really amazing thing.

oldbutdim
09-06-2017, 03:45 PM
Don't forget the Bernabeu "cash bull"

Ah. The inspiration for the Gorgie Moo Camp.

greenginger
09-06-2017, 04:25 PM
The Yams are just selling the chips from their fans shoulders, 400,000 chips will take that lassie with the Romanov out flag at her windae a week to polish off.



Ah, where is that Gorgie glamour puss now. :greengrin

Anyone kept a picture of her ?

heidtheba
09-06-2017, 04:39 PM
Ah, where is that Gorgie glamour puss now. :greengrin

Anyone kept a picture of her ?

It was an impressive photo in the pre-panoramic stitched together image day when it was taken...

My favourite Hertz pic was the one of Asterix and Obelix lookalikes that someone saw on TV when they played Liverpool/Spurs at home a few years back.

Deansy
09-06-2017, 06:57 PM
Ah, where is that Gorgie glamour puss now. :greengrin

Anyone kept a picture of her ?

Courtesy of the 'Bounce' -


http://www.hibeesbounce.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5521&d=1442916323

FilipinoHibs
10-06-2017, 01:57 PM
Look at this way - season ticket sales of say 5,000 more tham last time in SPL probably means £2m of extra income a year with other spending on food and shop etc. So 19 players in at £2k a week.

CropleyWasGod
10-06-2017, 03:40 PM
Look at this way - season ticket sales of say 5,000 more tham last time in SPL probably means £2m of extra income a year with other spending on food and shop etc. So 19 players in at £2k a week.
The problem with that is that players are normally on 2 or 3 year contracts. ST sales are a 1-year deal.

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greenginger
10-06-2017, 05:05 PM
Also, more season ticket income will be reflected in less walk up income. It won't all be extra income.

Phil MaGlass
10-06-2017, 05:38 PM
Also, more season ticket income will be reflected in less walk up income. It won't all be extra income.

My thoughts aswell. Walkups will be effected

Keyser Sauzee
10-06-2017, 09:55 PM
Look at this way - season ticket sales of say 5,000 more tham last time in SPL probably means £2m of extra income a year with other spending on food and shop etc. So 19 players in at £2k a week.

For how long tho, we can't offer 1 year deals as players won't sign them and we can't offer 2/3 year deals based on 1 years season ticket prices.

inglisavhibs
10-06-2017, 11:02 PM
Also, more season ticket income will be reflected in less walk up income. It won't all be extra income.
Yes that depends on results, if we are successful on the park the income might be more than extra season tickets as walk ups pay £22 per game and higher for the big games.

FilipinoHibs
11-06-2017, 03:15 AM
Yes that depends on results, if we are successful on the park the income might be more than extra season tickets as walk ups pay £22 per game and higher for the big games.

Average attendances up as well. Category A games too. Club will budget for a decline in income in yesr two. Say 10% down on year one back in SPl. Two year budget and wages can be worked out on that basis.

CropleyWasGod
11-06-2017, 09:00 AM
Average attendances up as well. Category A games too. Club will budget for a decline in income in yesr two. Say 10% down on year one back in SPl. Two year budget and wages can be worked out on that basis.
Are you saying that all new player contracts will be for 2 years?

BTW, your arithmetic is well off. It ignores VAT and NI.

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Andy74
12-06-2017, 08:44 AM
Look at this way - season ticket sales of say 5,000 more tham last time in SPL probably means £2m of extra income a year with other spending on food and shop etc. So 19 players in at £2k a week.

The average cash we get in from season tickets is a lot less than that.

We have kids tickets, students, OAPs, disabled etc. We pay the interest on the payment schemes.

You're suggesting £400 per ticket on average. The reality Hibs have said in the past is less than £200 per ticket.

connerg
12-06-2017, 01:46 PM
The average cash we get in from season tickets is a lot less than that.

We have kids tickets, students, OAPs, disabled etc. We pay the interest on the payment schemes.

You're suggesting £400 per ticket on average. The reality Hibs have said in the past is less than £200 per ticket.

That's quite a mark-down, if that's the correct term, on each season ticket.

Good cup runs and TV money are more important than i thought.

hibee_nation
12-06-2017, 04:21 PM
The average cash we get in from season tickets is a lot less than that.

We have kids tickets, students, OAPs, disabled etc. We pay the interest on the payment schemes.

You're suggesting £400 per ticket on average. The reality Hibs have said in the past is less than £200 per ticket.

Hopefully with better security sniffing out the cheats using kids tickets in the past this figure will go up.

emerald green
12-06-2017, 07:25 PM
How much is the club currently receiving each month from HSL?

connerg
13-06-2017, 12:31 AM
Hopefully with better security sniffing out the cheats using kids tickets in the past this figure will go up.

That has always got on my nerves. Why would any so called Hibs fan want to rob the club out of much needed money?

Paying your way to the club you claim to support isn't that difficult! That goes for the pretend PENSIONERS too.

Betty Boop
13-06-2017, 08:04 AM
That has always got on my nerves. Why would any so called Hibs fan want to rob the club out of much needed money?

Paying your way to the club you claim to support isn't that difficult! That goes for the pretend PENSIONERS too.

How can you be a 'pretend' pensioner ?

CropleyWasGod
13-06-2017, 08:33 AM
How can you be a 'pretend' pensioner ?
Limp.

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oneone73
13-06-2017, 08:36 AM
Limp.

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That can happen long before 65 ....

Geo_1875
13-06-2017, 08:56 AM
Are you saying that all new player contracts will be for 2 years?

BTW, your arithmetic is well off. It ignores VAT and NI.

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Surely all the big teams do that?

connerg
13-06-2017, 09:19 AM
How can you be a 'pretend' pensioner ?

What i meant was walk up fans buying concession tickets online who are in full time employment.

connerg
13-06-2017, 09:21 AM
Limp.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

:faf:

CropleyWasGod
13-06-2017, 09:24 AM
What i meant was walk up fans buying concession tickets online who are in full time employment.

People can be in FTE, and have a State pension.

connerg
13-06-2017, 11:04 AM
People can be in FTE, and have a State pension.

So those people can afford to pay full price then!

Concession tickets are for children or people on low income.

CallumLaidlaw
13-06-2017, 11:07 AM
So those people can afford to pay full price then!

Concession tickets are for children or people on low income.

Clubs just say "Over 65" as their steer on discounted tickets rather than "over 65 not in full time employment". :wink:

CropleyWasGod
13-06-2017, 11:15 AM
So those people can afford to pay full price then!

Concession tickets are for children or people on low income.

... and for people 65 and over.

My dad, in common with many of his generation, has a pretty good pension. One that, if he were able and willing, would allow him to buy a ST, or pay full-price as a walk-up. Are you suggesting that he should not get concession prices? If so, how would you administer that system?

connerg
13-06-2017, 11:23 AM
Clubs just say "Over 65" as their steer on discounted tickets rather than "over 65 not in full time employment". :wink:

There is a grey area here. If it was being clever with your tax returns then yes.

This is Hibs not the government.

I wonder how many people who abuse the concession ticket system called RP tight when he wouldn't pay £150k for Leigh Griffiths?

connerg
13-06-2017, 11:29 AM
... and for people 65 and over.

My dad, in common with many of his generation, has a pretty good pension. One that, if he were able and willing, would allow him to buy a ST, or pay full-price as a walk-up. Are you suggesting that he should not get concession prices? If so, how would you administer that system?

Over 65's are pensioners and are entitled to concession tickets.

That's up to Hibs to administer the system.

CropleyWasGod
13-06-2017, 11:32 AM
[/B]
Over 65's are pensioners and are entitled to concession tickets.

That's up to Hibs to administer the system.

...but they're not necessarily on low income, which is what you were advocating before.

Would you want those people means-tested?

connerg
13-06-2017, 11:42 AM
...but they're not necessarily on low income, which is what you were advocating before.

Would you want those people means-tested?


That's what i meant when i said there is a grey area here.

I doubt very much if Hibs have the desire or time to means test fans. To answer your question, no.

Dashing Bob S
14-06-2017, 10:34 AM
We're totally ****ed financially and the clock is ticking for us. It can only be a matter of time before we bump local businesses and charities, beg fans for money to finish our stand, beg fans for money to buy players, get a green cash cow, sell chips and have baking sales..

The Georgie footballing economic analysts have got our number.,

Greenworld
14-06-2017, 11:38 AM
We're totally ****ed financially and the clock is ticking for us. It can only be a matter of time before we bump local businesses and charities, beg fans for money to finish our stand, beg fans for money to buy players, get a green cash cow, sell chips and have baking sales..

The Georgie footballing economic analysts have got our number.,
I think we should go down that road win everything for 5 years go bust start again Debt free [emoji1]

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jacomo
14-06-2017, 11:58 AM
There is a grey area here. If it was being clever with your tax returns then yes.

This is Hibs not the government.

I wonder how many people who abuse the concession ticket system called RP tight when he wouldn't pay £150k for Leigh Griffiths?


Through HSL there is now a good way for people to make an additional contribution to the club if they want to.

Plenty of older people have spent literally a lifetime following Hibs. I don't begrudge their concession rates.

number9dream
14-06-2017, 01:31 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40275093

New director at Aberdeen says he will invest "several million"... But he also says Derek McInnes and his family are very happy in Aberdeen when they live in Renfrewshire.

Dons are going to get bogged down with paying for upkeep of a crumbling stadium while locals object to any plans for a new one, which is really for Stewart Milne to make a fortune from 'luxury beachside apartments' on the Pittodrie site.

Peevemor
14-06-2017, 01:38 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40275093

New director at Aberdeen says he will invest "several million"... But he also says Derek McInnes and his family are very happy in Aberdeen when they live in Renfrewshire.

Dons are going to get bogged down with paying for upkeep of a crumbling stadium while locals object to any plans for a new one, which is really for Stewart Milne to make a fortune from 'luxury beachside apartments' on the Pittodrie site.

Wait and see if it's "several million" on top of the shares he's purchased.