The cricket

[lord bunberry]

A couple of decent games so far. New Zealand looked great today batting. The weather could be a major factor. Good early season tournament to begin with.
looking forward to the cricket season.

[Off the bar]

Heading to the oval this afternoon for Australia Bangladesh, been looking forward to it but the weather looks pish for late afternoon/early evening.
Still it's the best excuse I've got to spend all day Monday on the peeve!

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

A fine 87 run victory v NZ takes England into the last 4.

[lord bunberry]

Outstanding victory for Sri Lanka against India today. That's the biggest run chase I've ever seen I think.

[marinello59]

Blows that group wide open.

[lord bunberry]

Blows that group wide open.
Aye they're all on the same points now I think.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Another great batting performance from England after a dodgy start, if you dont score 3 ton v England batting first these days you might as well forget it. I'm not sure why I'm happy to see England win at the cricket but, be hacked off because they beat The Argies at rugby a wee while later (great game though).

[lord bunberry]

Another great batting performance from England after a dodgy start, if you dont score 3 ton v England batting first these days you might as well forget it. I'm not sure why I'm happy to see England win at the cricket but, be hacked off because they beat The Argies at rugby a wee while later (great game though).

It's funny as I'm the same. I always want England to win at the cricket. I think it's probably that Scotland don't compete at that level.

[Mibbes Aye]

Enjoyed the cricket so far and agree with posts above, I have no problem enjoying England doing well

I got into cricket when I had a spell in Australia in my early twenties. They've not had their troubles to seek since they lost their version of the 'Golden Generation' but it feels like they are getting it together under Steve Smith.

[marinello59]

Hoping India do the business today. We're headed down for the final next week and really want to see them in it.

[hibee62]

It's funny as I'm the same. I always want England to win at the cricket. I think it's probably that Scotland don't compete at that level.

I've always liked to see England do well, and I think it's for that very reason. As things stand with the structure of world cricket, the ultimate aim for a Scot is to play for England.

Scotland beat Namibia in edinburgh yesterday in the tier below the ODI rankings, the second game is today. They play Zimbabwe on Thursday and Saturday too. I think they have to win one of those games against Zimbabwe to try to generate some of the mainstream attention that Afghanistan and Ireland have got and to keep the pressure on the ICC to change the structure! Ireland are now getting the rewards for their form 5 years ago but on current form I'd back Scotland to beat them. Afghanistan are far and away the best "associate" though.

[Off the bar]

England are going to have to pull something out the bag to avoid going out to Pakistan today.

[marinello59]

Pakistan v India final could be on. Fingers crossed.

[hibee62]

Looks rather like Scotland are going to beat Zimbabwe at the grange this evening. It will be a first win over a full member in ODIs. They also beat Sri Lanka in a friendly a few weeks back but that didn't count because "status".

[marinello59]

Cooking at the Oval. Atmosphere is something else. Decent start with the bat for Pakistan .

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

What is it with these supporters of the Asian sides everytime they see a tv camera in front of them?

[Off the bar]

Cooking at the Oval. Atmosphere is something else. Decent start with the bat for Pakistan .

Hope you're in with the Pakistani fans the Indians will be heading home soon at this rate!

[--------]

Terrific performance from Pakistan.

TBH I was rather glad - the Indian commentators have been just a bit smug lately - needed a wee bit taking down. The constant chorus of "Virat Kohli the world's greatest cricket captain" gets a bit wearing (not to say emetic) after a while.

Fakhar's century and Amir's bowling .... :not worth

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

What a player Root continues to be, 184 no including a couple of lucky escapes. England 357-5 in the first test v SA.

[HibernianJK]

What a player Root continues to be, 184 no including a couple of lucky escapes. England 357-5 in the first test v SA.

Seems like a really. Never took to Cook as a captain as IMO the Pietersen situ was handled terribly and he always had an air of smugness and arrogance.

Root doesn't seem to have any of that.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Out early this morning along with Dawson.

[--------]

It's not just about how he bats now.

It's about how he leads the team in the field ...







... and results. :I'm waiti

[Mibbes Aye]

It's not just about how he bats now.

It's about how he leads the team in the field ...







... and results. :I'm waiti

Couldn't agree more.

He's obviously a fine and talented batsman and he led by example in the first innings. England were bailed out by their middle order and Ballance in particular must be looking over his shoulder.

The real skill in captaincy comes in the field though. Reasonable start. and at tea I would give England the slightest of advantages but it's pretty even IMO.

Interesting stat pulled from the Guardian coverage - in Test cricket Wood has an average of 27.45 against right-handers compared to an average of 62.20 against lefties.

[Mibbes Aye]

All set for a hopefully entertaining fourth innings.

Can't see past England at this stage but 331 isn't so big to be out of reach with a day and a half or so to go. SAF batsmen will want to make up for failings in their first innings.

[heretoday]

South Africa are heading for predictable defeat.

[Mibbes Aye]

South Africa are heading for predictable defeat.


it's been a woeful collapse by SAF :agree:

[heretoday]

I can't believe that was a South African team. They used to be tough as teak. Bit like the Aussies.

[--------]

I can't believe that was a South African team. They used to be tough as teak. Bit like the Aussies.


The pitch was very kind to the spinners, and historically South Africa have tended not to play spin too well - and they were missing a few of their more experienced players - but yes, they folded much more easily than I expected.

Moeen played exceptionally well in both innings, I thought. Used the conditions admirably.

Pleased he got MotM.

[Zazu62]

I can't believe that was a South African team. They used to be tough as teak. Bit like the Aussies.

Missing there captain big time think he's back for the 2nd test

[--------]

Missing there captain big time think he's back for the 2nd test


Du Plessis will be back for the next match. Rabada's out for that ridiculous suspension.

I always think it's not so much your FIRST Test as captain that sorts you out - adrenalin going, everyone wishing you well, everyone trying their socks off - but the next two or three. We'll see a bit more of what JR's made of this time around, though to be fair his first Test went very well, I thought.

[Mibbes Aye]

QDK looking in fine touch for the South Africans, lovely player to watch.

[--------]

Isn't it time the rules were changed to make batsmen wear proper helmets with neck-protectors?

And maybe batsmen learned that it isn't a good idea to turn their backs on the bowling?

Kuhn could have been badly hurt, wasn't (thankfully) badly hurt, but if he had been it would have been his own stupid fault.

[lord bunberry]

England struggling 3-2 both openers out.

[--------]

205 all out. Good toss to win, I think.

Let's see how Joe Root is at the Rain Dance .... :wink:

[heretoday]

Pathetic show today. as bad as the first test. Cricket is becoming a joke. Grinding out a draw is part of the game and these sides don't have the skills or the concentration. Too much slogging out for the 20/20 money to keep the Market Men happy is the problem.

Holding, McGrath or even Bob Willis would have run through all of them in no time.

[--------]

That's a weakened SA side.

133 all out (of which Cook scored 42) is a disgrace.

I haven't seen any of it, but I'll watch the highlights and make sure I get the verdict. "Gutless shambles" comes to mind as a possible summary?

[Mibbes Aye]

That's a weakened SA side.

133 all out (of which Cook scored 42) is a disgrace.

I haven't seen any of it, but I'll watch the highlights and make sure I get the verdict. "Gutless shambles" comes to mind as a possible summary?

Was watching some analysis earlier this evening. Hussein is quite scathing, essentially saying some of the players may have the talent but don't have the backbone.

The top three balance is very much under the spotlight, Ballance and Jennings really, with Ballance more so - questions over whether you can open with three left-handers. Jennings has struggled this series and his domestic form is awful but he's just off the back of a Test century and a Test half-century in his first two tests, both on the sub-continent! Ballance's first eighteen months in the team were strong but he has struggled in the last two years.

[--------]

Was watching some analysis earlier this evening. Hussein is quite scathing, essentially saying some of the players may have the talent but don't have the backbone.

The top three balance is very much under the spotlight, Ballance and Jennings really, with Ballance more so - questions over whether you can open with three left-handers. Jennings has struggled this series and his domestic form is awful but he's just off the back of a Test century and a Test half-century in his first two tests, both on the sub-continent! Ballance's first eighteen months in the team were strong but he has struggled in the last two years.


I think Root had an easy run last time out - SA had a stand-in captain who didn't seem to be on the ball at all. De Villiers is another matter entirely, very sharp, very experienced, and utterly ruthless.

Root needs to assert himself, IMO - some of the carry-on surrounding appeals to the third umpire was beyond ridiculous, with Broad, Stokes and Bairstow the main culprits. SA, on the other hand - the bowler appeals, Faf walks quietly over to de Kock and they have a word. Faf looks at the bowler - the bowler either backs down or renews his appeal. Faf has a wee think to himself, and either asks for the review or shakes his head and turns away. Absolutely no doubt about who's on control.

One cannot say that about England and Joe Root. I'm beginning already to get flashbacks to Beefy - great player, NOT a captain. I really hope JR proves my dark prognostications wrong.

Having watched the highlights (I'm saving the Lord Chief Justice for just before going to bed) i'll say it again - that performance was a gutless shambles, with some of the worst offenders being senior players. It would be simplistic to blame Root - the same players were doing the same things last winter in India. they seem to have learned nothing.

Rabada's back for the Third Test, Faf's got them playing again - can England pull themselves together and turn things around? I really doubt it.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

There was a feature on SSN yesterday morning that Englands 4th innings batting record under Bayliss is abysmal, more of the same by the look of things, although never watched any of the last 3 days play.

[--------]

There was a feature on SSN yesterday morning that England's 4th innings batting record under Bayliss is abysmal, more of the same by the look of things, although never watched any of the last 3 days play.


Bayliss was interviewed on "The Verdict" and he was as shifty and evasive as he could possibly have been. He didn't give a single straight answer that I could detect. He was saying exactly the same things he said in the winter during the Test series in Bangladesh and India.

'Abysmal' is a very good word to describe the England batting yesterday. Not one of them seemed to have any conception of the idea of just going out to occupy the crease and wear the bowling down.

I think it was David Lloyd told the story about David Steele of Northamptonshire when he was picked to play against the Australians in 1975 (I think!). Steele was near retirement, and probably wouldn't have satisfied the present backroom staff as to his fitness levels or weight or even eyesight (he wore glasses). When he arrived at the crease in his debut Test, one of the Aussie slip fielders remarked loudly to Rod Marsh the w/keeper, "F*** it, Rod, look at the arse on this one!' Steele turned round and said to the guy, "Aye, take a GOOD f***** look at it, mate. You'll see enough of it this summer!" He scored 50, 45, 73, 92, 39 and 66 in his six Test innings that year, and made his top score the following season against the West Indies (in their prime). He wasn't athletic, he had solid technique rather than brilliant, most folks thought he was too old, but if you'll pardon my French, he had bollocks the size of cannonballs and the heart of a lion.

And the Aussies were heartily sick and tired of his big arse occupying the crease - for hours and hours and hours. And scoring runs as well, of course, but the main thing initially was to stay there, and sicken the bowlers - who included Jeff Thompson and Dennis Lillee. Now THAT's a Test batsman.

And they needn't blame T20 - the Indians are top-class at T20, and ODIs, and Test matches. They're able to adapt to the format. The English guys can't, or don't, or just won't.

[marinello59]

Yesterday was the first time I have ever though Root was looking older after watching his post match interview. He looks like a man under pressure already.

[--------]

Yesterday was the first time I have ever though Root was looking older after watching his post match interview. He looks like a man under pressure already.


I think he is. I rather fear for him, TBH.

Something that was brought up on 'The Verdict' - there may be a pattern emerging of players being picked for England, coming in and doing a terrific job, then either falling away badly or simply not improving, not finding their feet in the team. IIRC some of the players mentioned were Jennings, Ballance, Vince, Wood and Buttler. There were others, but I missed them.

I didn't catch it all, and I'm not saying it's true, but I do wonder just how useful Trevor Bayliss is? What exactly does he do? How exactly does he interact with the captain? And what influence exactly is he exerting on the players? Because not to put a fine point on it, he's doing a rank bad job as far as I can see.

India appear to be able to prepare the same top players to play Tests, ODIs and T20 equally well. Most other countries too. England seem to have a thing about 'specialist' short-game squads, and yet they of all the top (maybe I should say 'big') countries seem to have this problem with batsmen walking out in Tests and setting off as if they were playing T20 - no concentration, no determination to stay at the crease, poor judgement, poor choice of shot ...

Bairstow's dismissal yesterday was farcical. So was Moeen's. So were half-a-dozen others. At one point Broad came down the wicket to speak to Dawson - they were laughing and joking? Two balls later Broad gave HIS wicket away - spooned the ball straight down the fielder's throat.

And I see Root's defending them - 'not fair to say they have no respect for Test cricket'. IMO he should have torn each and every one of them a new one last night. And he should have been backed by Bayliss - who was also spreading excuses and platitudes around and avoiding give a straight answer to anything he was asked.

Win one Test by more than 200. Lose the next by more than 300. That's not just random. Nor is it just down to Faf du Plessis coming back - though I think his captaincy was a major factor in the match.

So which England will we see next out? I suppose they could bounce back (though I rather doubt it). I just hope it doesn't do to Joe Root what a similar situation did to Beefy ...

[HibernianJK]

I think he is. I rather fear for him, TBH.

Something that was brought up on 'The Verdict' - there may be a pattern emerging of players being picked for England, coming in and doing a terrific job, then either falling away badly or simply not improving, not finding their feet in the team. IIRC some of the players mentioned were Jennings, Ballance, Vince, Wood and Buttler. There were others, but I missed them.

I didn't catch it all, and I'm not saying it's true, but I do wonder just how useful Trevor Bayliss is? What exactly does he do? How exactly does he interact with the captain? And what influence exactly is he exerting on the players? Because not to put a fine point on it, he's doing a rank bad job as far as I can see.

India appear to be able to prepare the same top players to play Tests, ODIs and T20 equally well. Most other countries too. England seem to have a thing about 'specialist' short-game squads, and yet they of all the top (maybe I should say 'big') countries seem to have this problem with batsmen walking out in Tests and setting off as if they were playing T20 - no concentration, no determination to stay at the crease, poor judgement, poor choice of shot ...

Bairstow's dismissal yesterday was farcical. So was Moeen's. So were half-a-dozen others. At one point Broad came down the wicket to speak to Dawson - they were laughing and joking? Two balls later Broad gave HIS wicket away - spooned the ball straight down the fielder's throat.

And I see Root's defending them - 'not fair to say they have no respect for Test cricket'. IMO he should have torn each and every one of them a new one last night. And he should have been backed by Bayliss - who was also spreading excuses and platitudes around and avoiding give a straight answer to anything he was asked.

Win one Test by more than 200. Lose the next by more than 300. That's not just random. Nor is it just down to Faf du Plessis coming back - though I think his captaincy was a major factor in the match.

So which England will we see next out? I suppose they could bounce back (though I rather doubt it). I just hope it doesn't do to Joe Root what a similar situation did to Beefy ...

Can't remember his name but why is the young boy, Hameed is it, not playing?

Thought he looked quite solid in his debut, is he still injured?

[--------]

Can't remember his name but why is the young boy, Hameed is it, not playing?

Thought he looked quite solid in his debut, is he still injured?


I think he's still injured, but given the way the team seems to be run these days, they could have already decided he's not good enough.

He looked very good in that one match in India. Right now I'd rather not see any more youngsters drawn into the England set up until that set up's sorted out and running properly.

Complete this well-known phrase or saying - "Couldnae run a p***-*p in a b*****y." Answers to the MCC, Lord's Cricket Ground, St John's Wood Road, London NW8 8QN.

[Mibbes Aye]

SAF doing well. Pity about the interruptions but then I wonder whether the conditions also add a bit for them when they are able to bowl?

Rabada's wicket was an absolute beauty! Welcome to Test cricket Dawid Malan :greengrin

[lord bunberry]

Stokes's on fire.

[Lancs Harp]

I think he's still injured, but given the way the team seems to be run these days, they could have already decided he's not good enough.

He looked very good in that one match in India. Right now I'd rather not see any more youngsters drawn into the England set up until that set up's sorted out and running properly.

Complete this well-known phrase or saying - "Couldnae run a p***-*p in a b*****y." Answers to the MCC, Lord's Cricket Ground, St John's Wood Road, London NW8 8QN.

Hameed has struggled a bit this season, hes played in 7 County matches but his average is only 19 and has a high score of 47. He'll be a class act I think but at the moment its a bit after the Lord mayors show. Expectation has weighed a little heavily on him I think. His time will come but not yet, still has much to learn despite his endevours in India.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

There was a feature on SSN yesterday morning that Englands 4th innings batting record under Bayliss is abysmal, more of the same by the look of things, although never watched any of the last 3 days play.

Normal service resumed when England don't bat last. SA trail by well over 4 ton with 6 wickets left.

[--------]

Hameed has struggled a bit this season, hes played in 7 County matches but his average is only 19 and has a high score of 47. He'll be a class act I think but at the moment its a bit after the Lord mayors show. Expectation has weighed a little heavily on him I think. His time will come but not yet, still has much to learn despite his endeavours in India.

I agree he's got lots of ability. Is he still in his teens?



Normal service resumed when England don't bat last. SA trail by well over 4 ton with 6 wickets left.

They've looked a lot more composed and disciplined this time out - more application to the job in hand, I thought.

Of course a debut bowler taking 5 wickets in his first innings is a real bonus, but the batsmen have looked to me a lot more solid than even in the first Test.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

SA 252-9, gutsy innings by Elgar is going to mean very little.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Hat trick for Ali to take the match, cracking stuff. England win by 239 runs.

[lord bunberry]

Hat trick for Ali to take the match, cracking stuff. England win by 239 runs.
I just wish the umpire had given it out.

[--------]

Hat trick for Ali to take the match, cracking stuff. England win by 239 runs.


Terrific performance - they looked the part this time. Very well played.

BTW there is an uncanny resemblance here?

19014 The Man in the High Castle ...

19015 The MCC Captain?

Maybe young Joe really IS the guy to bring order and discipline to the England Test side .... :devil:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

That is quite freaky! :-)

[--------]

That is quite freaky! :-)


That's what I thought - I don't normally see these things, but I have a biography of RH on my desk and it just hit me.

Something you're not telling us, Joe?

[--------]

Seriously, they played really well in this Test. Let's see them repeating the performance next out and WINNING THE SERIES!

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

That's what I thought - I don't normally see these things, but I have a biography of RH on my desk and it just hit me.

Something you're not telling us, Joe?

I doubt Root will ever occupy the crease as long as The Germans occupied Poland. :-(

[Mibbes Aye]

Seriously, they played really well in this Test. Let's see them repeating the performance next out and WINNING THE SERIES!

Interesting series as SAF have the players who can do it with bat and ball and could yet turn it around.

England are only a couple of picks away from being a really strong side and could be top three as opposed to top five or six. They have to be mindful of succession planning though, particularly with Broad and Anderson. Also need to sort that top order, because they are genuinely solid in the middle order.

I've got tickets for days 2 and 3 at Headingley for the second Test vs the Windies at the end of August. I would expect England to be dominating that match if they are as good as they think - first match to iron out any kinks and come across any surprises, second match to demonstrate why they are so much higher in the rankings.

[--------]

I doubt Root will ever occupy the crease as long as The Germans occupied Poland. :-(


Aye, but the Germans lost that series big time - started well, but horrendous second-innings collapse, remember.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

They took a fair hammering in the first series too, hopefully they'll never arrange a 3rd.

[--------]

Interesting series as SAF have the players who can do it with bat and ball and could yet turn it around.

England are only a couple of picks away from being a really strong side and could be top three as opposed to top five or six. They have to be mindful of succession planning though, particularly with Broad and Anderson. Also need to sort that top order, because they are genuinely solid in the middle order.

I've got tickets for days 2 and 3 at Headingley for the second Test vs the Windies at the end of August. I would expect England to be dominating that match if they are as good as they think - first match to iron out any kinks and come across any surprises, second match to demonstrate why they are so much higher in the rankings.


There was a good point made during 'The Verdict' on Day 5 - the WI tests need to be taken as the prelude to the Ashes series. No experimental picks, no messing around with the order or the selection. England need to focus on working towards that first Ashes Test, because they have the potential to have a very good series this winter if they show the concentration and determination they did at the Oval.

There was a lack of mental discipline evident at Trent Bridge which seems to have been sorted out - no one racing around screaming for a review, batsmen getting their heads down and grafting to stay at the wicket, Joe Root I don't think putting a foot wrong at any point in the match - not in any serious sense, at any rate.

Yup - the top order and who comes in when Anderson and Broad retire (which can't be too far off now, I suppose) are the main issues facing them now. :agree:

I'm beginning to really like JR as captain.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Quite attritional stuff so far on day 1 of the 4th Test, England 85-1 so, once again SA will be batting last.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

England now 92-3.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

147-4 @ tea.

[Mibbes Aye]

147-4 @ tea.

Nicely poised for the evening session. Root and Stokes can accelerate, likewise SAF can claim the two critical wickets.

Possibly the session that will dictate the result.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Root passes 5000 runs in test matches.

[Mibbes Aye]

Root passes 5000 runs in test matches.

Fastest in the modern era for England I think.

Still finely poised. Shaping up to be a great game, as part of a great series.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Won't see any tomorrow apart from the highlights on catch up on Sun morning.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

SA been set a target of 380, currently 10-1.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

18-2

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

40-3 @ lunch.

[--------]

Good win and good opening series for JR.

Still need to do something about the upper order. Looks like an epidemic of 'brain-freeze' at 3 and 4. They know what to do, but they can't seem to get their arms and legs to do it.

And this WAS a weakened SA side, TBH.

However, onwards and upwards!

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Without performing a forensic look in to it, if you make a decent score batting first, the worst result will be a draw. Root alluded to it on Monday and I get the feeling he must agree with me. :-)

[Mibbes Aye]

Without performing a forensic look in to it, if you make a decent score batting first, the worst result will be a draw. Root alluded to it on Monday and I get the feeling he must agree with me. :-)

There's never any harm in getting a decent score first up but that's the beauty of cricket.

What constitutes a decent score is informed by the weather, the humidity, the pitch surface, the new ball, the ability for a player to make an individual contribution whether that be a quickfire half-century, staying at the crease for two days or pinning the batsmen down with relentless bowling just outside the off stump. Clever bowling changes and fielding positions by the captain can all make a difference too. Then there are the individual battles within the greater fight, that can inform events - Atherton vs Donald for example - or when it's really one-sided liked McGrath against Atherton.

It's so nuanced and multi-layered, even though sometimes it is just one team demolishing another. It's what makes it great for me.

[Mibbes Aye]

Ahead of the series opener against the Windies, this was a cracking read in the Guardian:

The scariest Test England ever played: terror at the hands of West Indies (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/aug/13/scariest-test-england-ever-played-terror-west-indies-cricket-1986-patrick-patterson)

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

1st Test v Windies

England win toss and bat first.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I'm struggling to see this pink ball on the tv.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

14-1, Stoneman out for 8, good delivery to clip the top of the off stump.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Westley out for 8. 39-2

[Mibbes Aye]

Root and Cook looking reasonably comfortable against a young and inexperienced Windies.

What odds that Cook will have yet another opening partner for the Ashes? :greengrin

[lord bunberry]

Why have the West Indies not played a spinner? I've been watching all day and they are struggling to make an impression. Surely they need a spinner in there to mix it up.

[Mibbes Aye]

Why have the West Indies not played a spinner? I've been watching all day and they are struggling to make an impression. Surely they need a spinner in there to mix it up.

They're playing Roston Chase :confused:

He's been bowling overs to allow them to rotate the quickies.

[lord bunberry]

They're playing Roston Chase :confused:

He's been bowling overs to allow them to rotate the quickies.

He's hardly a proper full time spinner. They've got a proper spinner in the squad that took a load of wickets in their previous day night game.

[Mibbes Aye]

He's hardly a proper full time spinner. They've got a proper spinner in the squad that took a load of wickets in their previous day night game.

Are you talking about Bishoo? Last time out for the Windies, Chase got man of the match despite being on the losing side against Pakistan.

You're right about Chase, he's an all-rounder. His batting average is in the forties so he earns his place in the team as a batsman. Bishoo bats like a bowler :greengrin

In terms of bowling, their economy rates are identical. First-class averages are pretty much the same too. Bishoo has a considerable edge on bowling average at Test level but he's got five years on Chase and his average isn't actually very good! Chase can improve, I think it's too late for Bishoo.

Edgbaston is a pitch that traditionally favours batting, but occasionally can work for seamers. If I was picking a spinner I wouldn't be picking them for their trickery, I would be picking them to hold down an end while rotating the fasts at the other. I'd also be looking for the spinner to offer runs when batting,which is why I think Chase got the nod.

[lord bunberry]

Are you talking about Bishoo? Last time out for the Windies, Chase got man of the match despite being on the losing side against Pakistan.

You're right about Chase, he's an all-rounder. His batting average is in the forties so he earns his place in the team as a batsman. Bishoo bats like a bowler :greengrin

In terms of bowling, their economy rates are identical. First-class averages are pretty much the same too. Bishoo has a considerable edge on bowling average at Test level but he's got five years on Chase and his average isn't actually very good! Chase can improve, I think it's too late for Bishoo.

Edgbaston is a pitch that traditionally favours batting, but occasionally can work for seamers. If I was picking a spinner I wouldn't be picking them for their trickery, I would be picking them to hold down an end while rotating the fasts at the other. I'd also be looking for the spinner to offer runs when batting,which is why I think Chase got the nod.

It's hard to argue with what you've said, but on a pitch that was always going to favour the batsmen, I would've included the full time spinner and hoped that the batsman would do their job. Losing the toss ended any hopes the Windies had of making an impact in this test.

[Mibbes Aye]

It's hard to argue with what you've said, but on a pitch that was always going to favour the batsmen, I would've included the full time spinner and hoped that the batsman would do their job. Losing the toss ended any hopes the Windies had of making an impact in this test.

Yeah, I get that and I see where you're coming from.

The Windies stock is at the lowest it's been in a long time and in fairness to England they are pushing right at the top, so you have to wonder whether the Windies are focused on reducing the damage - playing Chase would potentially reflect that. Bishoo would have been more attacking but also less safe?

Think you'e correct - batting first on this pitch is a dream and from all I've seen so far, Cook and Root are making hay. Some or all of Bairstow, Stokes and Ali will blast them on further and then Anderson, Broad and the new boy will have fun with them after the declaration.

I'm going to the 2nd Test at Headingley so if the Windies get stuffed in this first match, I hope they bounce back for the second though I'm not confident!

Far cry from growing up when the English cricket team were the whipping boys for the Windies and then Australia :greengrin

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

11 half centuries in the last 11 tests for young Joe, not a bad player. He and Cook put on a batting show against a mightily sub-standard attack (apart from the delivery that took the first wicket).

[lord bunberry]

Yeah, I get that and I see where you're coming from.

The Windies stock is at the lowest it's been in a long time and in fairness to England they are pushing right at the top, so you have to wonder whether the Windies are focused on reducing the damage - playing Chase would potentially reflect that. Bishoo would have been more attacking but also less safe?

Think you'e correct - batting first on this pitch is a dream and from all I've seen so far, Cook and Root are making hay. Some or all of Bairstow, Stokes and Ali will blast them on further and then Anderson, Broad and the new boy will have fun with them after the declaration.

I'm going to the 2nd Test at Headingley so if the Windies get stuffed in this first match, I hope they bounce back for the second though I'm not confident!

Far cry from growing up when the English cricket team were the whipping boys for the Windies and then Australia :greengrin

I've never been to a test match. I'm going to have to try and organise a trip down some time.

[lord bunberry]

How far have the Windies fallen? My first memories of cricket were the West Indies fast bowlers destroying England. For the sake of the game I'd love to see them come good again. I know this is a bit controversial, but it's got to the stage where we've basically got 4 top class test sides( I'm not including Pakistan in that due to there problems) and the test match is coming under threat.

[--------]

How far have the Windies fallen? My first memories of cricket were the West Indies fast bowlers destroying England. For the sake of the game I'd love to see them come good again. I know this is a bit controversial, but it's got to the stage where we've basically got 4 top class test sides( I'm not including Pakistan in that due to there problems) and the test match is coming under threat.


It's been awful watching them the past two days. Michael Holding sounded so depressed. For anyone who remembers them in their pomp it's hard to believe that this is what they've come to. Some of them looked as if they just can't be bothered, and Holder's captaincy? What was all that about the new ball first day out? The manager has to send someone onto the dield to remind him?


On another tack altogether - I was watching the T20 Bash after the rain washed out the real cricket (:wink:). A lesson to prima donnas to lay off barracking the younger guys - Mohammad Amir and some catching practice ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40982016

The first one was just rotten fielding with no excuse; the second apparently he lost in the floodlights. (Or so he said.)

You'd think with his history, he'd have learned a wee bit humility. :devil:

[--------]

It gets worse - they're 4 down for 53 now.

Jimmy Anderson playing a blinder, but this is hardly an advertisement for Test cricket.

[--------]

All over.

Holding sounds really grim.

The big question is - how long will it take Jimmy A to reach his 500 wickets? 2nd Test? 3rd Test? First morning of the next Test?

He's a phenomenal bowler - just seems to get better and better as the years go by.

[Mibbes Aye]

All over.

Holding sounds really grim.

The big question is - how long will it take Jimmy A to reach his 500 wickets? 2nd Test? 3rd Test? First morning of the next Test?

He's a phenomenal bowler - just seems to get better and better as the years go by.

I hope he gets his 500 and as mentioned previously, I may have the privilege of seeing it :greengrin

He's had a quite remarkable career and like you say, he's just developed and kept going on, even as the years kick in!

One of those players whose eventual retirement will probably stoke a greater appreciation for just what he's done.

England have gravitated to the top of the rankings through a combination of sound bowling - Anderson and Broad - and sound batting - Cook and Root.

The wildcards are Stokes and Ali, who can be gamechangers but don't set the tone of the game in the manner that the previous four can.

England will need to ensure they can replace Broad, Anderson and Cook so that they can get the benefit of Ali and Stokes without relying on them to win games.

[--------]

I hope he gets his 500 and as mentioned previously, I may have the privilege of seeing it :greengrin

He's had a quite remarkable career and like you say, he's just developed and kept going on, even as the years kick in!

One of those players whose eventual retirement will probably stoke a greater appreciation for just what he's done.

England have gravitated to the top of the rankings through a combination of sound bowling - Anderson and Broad - and sound batting - Cook and Root.

The wildcards are Stokes and Ali, who can be gamechangers but don't set the tone of the game in the manner that the previous four can.

England will need to ensure they can replace Broad, Anderson and Cook so that they can get the benefit of Ali and Stokes without relying on them to win games.


Jimmy is one of the greatest bowlers the game has seen. Proof that you don't have to be supersonic fast or spin it like a spinning-top to take wickets.

We'll miss the crafty old sod! :not worth

[--------]

Penny just dropped regarding the absence of quality in this WI side - they're all playing T20 in the Caribbean.

I couldn't sleep last night, and ended up watching St Kitts and Nevis playing Trinidad and Tobago (or the 'Trinbago Knight Riders' as they call themselves :greengrin) in the wee small hours. Gayle hit a spectacular 93 from 47 balls - they had to replace the ball three or four times 'cos it just didn't come back he hit it so hard.

It figures - the players are being properly paid, unlike in the Test side, and the teams represent the actual island-nations rather than a fictitious conglomeration possessing little or no unity. It looked an absolute hoot - loud music, fireworks, cheerleaders, calypso bands, and, I suspect, much drink taken and unorthodox ciggies being smoked - and everyone was on Cloud Nine and very, very happy. The Knight Riders won, but by that time I really don't think any of the spectators cared about - or was even aware of - the result.

I'm beginning to get the hang of this white-ball game ...




... but I don't think this version would go down too well at Lord's. :devil:

[Mibbes Aye]

Interesting first day's play.

The three newbies in the upper order failed to shine again, Westley in particular exposing weakness that you have to figure the Aussies will pick up on.

Stokes and Root both lucky to survive being dropped but then went on to ensure a far better total for England than would have been envisaged at an earlier stage.

The Windies showed strength to come back strongly today, Roach and particularly Gabriel appearing well fired-up.

And they should make it a law of the game that the bowling side have to bat out the last ten to twelve overs of a day :greengrin. There's nothing quite like it :agree:

Muggy conditions down here in Leeds and I expect Anderson to prosper tomorrow. His 500 could be on, if and when we get to WI's second innings.

[Mibbes Aye]

Lunchtime, day 2.

Anderson prospered in the muggy conditions at the start of play, claiming two early wickets.

The weather turned though, getting a lot cooler and slightly drizzly. That's cleared now and it's sunny blue skies. Windies have chipped away throughout the morning, reaching their hundred on the stroke of lunch. They notably increased their run rate after Anderson's overs and once the new ball had worn slightly. Two lbws overturned at review - one for Broad, one for Moeen.

Looks like a pivotal afternoon session. Runs for the Windies will make it a competitive match, wickets for England should see them go into their second innings with a decent lead to build on.

[Mibbes Aye]

Teatime
WI came out after lunch well and motored on. The game gradually became more becalmed, but the Windies upped the pace as we approached tea, with Braithwaite securing his century with a fine six.

He has been ably supported by Shai Hope who looked like he might overtake him at one stage.

Partnership of 170 odd, that has firmly put the Windies in the game.

[Mibbes Aye]

Close of play and today has definitely belonged to the West Indies.

Coming out for the evening session they gently strolled towards levelling the score and then started to build a lead. The new ball was introduced forty-five minutes in and that saw Anderson and Broad resume the attack, but with no impact until nearly an hour later when Broad ripped out Braithwaite's wicket with a snorter.

England's hopes were maybe slightly raised as shortly after, Stokes had Chase caught at first slip. It wasn't to be though, the Windies finishing with some expansive shot playing by Hope and Blackwood.

No real stand-outs in the bowling department for England. Moeen was probably least effective but then Headingley has a reputation for not suiting spinners. Westley had a chance to strengthen his Ashes hopes by showing he can provide back-up to Moeen but did nothing to impress.

It all means tomorrow is nicely set up. If the Windies can build up a lead over the day then Roach and Gabriel will be relishing another chance to get into that shaky English top order. If England can break through and dismiss the Windies relatively quickly then they have the batting strength lower down to get back in front and potentially set a feasible target to win.

[--------]

Close of play and today has definitely belonged to the West Indies.

Coming out for the evening session they gently strolled towards levelling the score and then started to build a lead. The new ball was introduced forty-five minutes in and that saw Anderson and Broad resume the attack, but with no impact until nearly an hour later when Broad ripped out Braithwaite's wicket with a snorter.

England's hopes were maybe slightly raised as shortly after, Stokes had Chase caught at first slip. It wasn't to be though, the Windies finishing with some expansive shot playing by Hope and Blackwood.

No real stand-outs in the bowling department for England. Moeen was probably least effective but then Headingley has a reputation for not suiting spinners. Westley had a chance to strengthen his Ashes hopes by showing he can provide back-up to Moeen but did nothing to impress.

It all means tomorrow is nicely set up. If the Windies can build up a lead over the day then Roach and Gabriel will be relishing another chance to get into that shaky English top order. If England can break through and dismiss the Windies relatively quickly then they have the batting strength lower down to get back in front and potentially set a feasible target to win.


Good summary of the day.

This one's been a different ball game to the first test.

[Mibbes Aye]

Lunchtime day 3.

West Indies have consolidated in what can only really be described as England repeatedly shooting themselves in the foot. Nevertheless England finally got that tenth Windies wicket to avoid facing the prospect of having been in the field over five sessions.

Today started in somewhat muggy conditions with Anderson on strike. Well, we all know what happens there and two wickets were duly secured. The sun came out after that and suddenly the batsmen were settled and playing with some elan.

Holder and Blackwood put on a tidy partnership, a lesser version of Braithwaite and Hope that England couldn't seem to find a way to deal with. Eventually Moeen made amends for a shocking dropped catch earlier by taking a mi**** of Holder to break the two. By this time Holder and Blackwood had extended the lead by a decent amount however.

The remaining wickets fell in fits and bursts, with Gabriel and Roach putting on a stuffy little cameo of a resistance for the last wicket. This in particular highlighted England's issues, with them uncertain about their best fielding position against the two tailenders.

It's been a very enjoyable Test so far. As with yesterday, the afternoon session is going to tell us a lot about the eventual outcome of this match.

[Mibbes Aye]

Tea interval.

England slow and steady, the run rate was obviously not a priority. For the Windies, Gabriel was loose to start with but tightened up his deliveries as time went on.

Cook's dismissal has highlighted what remains England's problems. Stone man had been eking out runs beside him, without ever looking like the position was naturally his.

After Holder got Cook, Westley came in and shortly after, the two aspiring Ashes candidates were facing Holder at one end and Gabriel at the other. Both looked extremely uncomfortable and this raises all sorts of questions as to how they will cope with an Australian attack in general, let alone when they have to play somewhere like the WACA.

Fortunatley for England they could lose both these guys in the first over after tea and still push on and post a match winning total, such is the depth in the batting order. Whether they do, we shall see.

[Mibbes Aye]

Close of play.

It was a rather sedate evening session. As was expected, Stoneman and Westley fell to the two big quickies. Westley has surely ruled himself out of contention for the Ashes now. The fact that Stoneman hung around long enoug to get a half-century may alow him some grace. It wasn't the swashbuckling fifty of a Gilchrist but neither was it a ground-out fifty against a hard to play paceman, a la Atherton against Donald. Instead it was a bitty fifty against some powerful fast bowlers who aren't in the upper echelons at this time.

Root started slowly and carefully, playing himself in. It's the first time I've seen him in the flesh and he really does have an artless, fluid talent for finding the gaps with pacy shots. Real pleasure to watch him play. He survived one close scare, looked like the ball was just missing leg stump on an lbw shout.

There wasn't much to see of Malan, couple of nice strokes off the spinners.

England finsished just in the lead and no more, but with Root settled in and some strong batsmen lined up behind him.

He's certainly steadied the ship and if England can pile on the runs tomorrow then there's the possibility of setting a target that offers England the chance of a victory. That would require them bowling out the Windies though, and while WI are a young, inexperienced side there was an energy about them in the field that suggested great team spirit (and an energy that was maybe lacking for England when they were trying to end the WI first innings).

Should be a good day's cricket tomorrow.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

The number of no balls The Windies are getting away with is ridiculous. In a tight match as this is at the moment an extra 20 odd runs could be crucial.

[lord bunberry]

Dropped catch by Broad hits the stumps at the non strikers end. What a way to lose your wicket.

[Mibbes Aye]

Dropped catch by Broad hits the stumps at the non strikers end. What a way to lose your wicket.

Cruel :agree:

Also felt for Brathwaite, falling just short of being the first person ever to score a century in both innings at first-class level at Headingley. Quite remarkable it has never happened, if nothing else given the quality of batsmen who have been brought through or played for Yorkshire - Hutton, Boycott, Vaughan and Lehmann to name but a few.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

The number of no balls The Windies are getting away with is ridiculous. In a tight match as this is at the moment an extra 20 odd runs could be crucial.

As I was saying.

[Mibbes Aye]

Tremendous result for the West Indies in what was an incredible Test match - the momentum shifted so many times.

To see a game shift that many times and the result still be in doubt on the final session of the final day really highlights how great five-day cricket just can be.

Plaudits to Shai Hope, he made history. He and Kraigg Bratwaite must give the Windies hope for the future, given their age. Credit to Jermaine Blackwood too, his bravado helped push the Windies over the line.

The bowlers can feel good also, Holder and Gabriel in particular but Chase came good in the second innings too.

No one has ever posted such a big fourth-innings total at Headingley other than Bradman's Invincibles, and it was a pitch where wickets were capable of falling, so the Windies deserve huge acclaim IMO.

[Lancs Harp]

Excellent Test match and well done the WIndies they were superb today. Test swung one way then the other but the West Indies deserved their win. Much needed for West Indian cricket too.

[--------]

Wow! And some folks say Test matches are boring! I think I've only just got my breath back.

Terrific result for WI and a warning to England that the Ashes series won't be as easy as some of the commentators and experts have been thinking.

Can't add much to what's already been said; totally compelling five days, and one of the best test matches I've ever watched.

Well done WI. :not worth


PS: Mind you - Australia just lost to Bangladesh: bowled them out for 244 on the fourth day at Dhaka to win by 20 runs.

What were they saying about First Division and Second Division Test teams?

[Mibbes Aye]

Wow! And some folks say Test matches are boring! I think I've only just got my breath back.

Terrific result for WI and a warning to England that the Ashes series won't be as easy as some of the commentators and experts have been thinking.

Can't add much to what's already been said; totally compelling five days, and one of the best test matches I've ever watched.

Well done WI. :not worth


PS: Mind you - Australia just lost to Bangladesh: bowled them out for 244 on the fourth day at Dhaka to win by 20 runs.

What were they saying about First Division and Second Division Test teams?

The Bangladeshis have some cracking players, a few guys who would challenge for places in the top-tier teams. It was going to the MCG that got me into cricket, so my loyalties tend to sit with Australia but I'm really pleased for Bangladesh.

While watching the Headingley Test, the guys on TMS were saying that Shakib Al Hasan is now only the fourth bowler to have five fors against every other Test nation. That's some achievement.

They definitely play better at home, by a long chalk, and Australia have never been surefooted on the subcontinent but that shouldn't detract from a great result.

As part of the build-up to the Ashes, I've been enjoying reading this series of articles in the Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/series/20-great-ashes-moments). I've only got through 20-16 so far but some cracking reads just in those alone.

[--------]

The Bangladeshis have some cracking players, a few guys who would challenge for places in the top-tier teams. It was going to the MCG that got me into cricket, so my loyalties tend to sit with Australia but I'm really pleased for Bangladesh.

While watching the Headingley Test, the guys on TMS were saying that Shakib Al Hasan is now only the fourth bowler to have five fors against every other Test nation. That's some achievement.

They definitely play better at home, by a long chalk, and Australia have never been surefooted on the subcontinent but that shouldn't detract from a great result.

As part of the build-up to the Ashes, I've been enjoying reading this series of articles in the Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/series/20-great-ashes-moments). I've only got through 20-16 so far but some cracking reads just in those alone.


Thanks, MA. I've bookmarked it and I'll start working my way through soon.

BODYLINE only merits #20? They trying to appease the Aussies???? :devil:

Did you see the BBC website today? Some idiot fired a crossbow bolt into the Oval during play yesterday. Could have killed someone. Anyone - didn't seem to be bothered who. :rolleyes:

[Mibbes Aye]

Thanks, MA. I've bookmarked it and I'll start working my way through soon.

BODYLINE only merits #20? They trying to appease the Aussies???? :devil:

Did you see the BBC website today? Some idiot fired a crossbow bolt into the Oval during play yesterday. Could have killed someone. Anyone - didn't seem to be bothered who. :rolleyes:

Just reading about it. Crazy stuff. It sounds like it definitely came from outside, hopefully the wealth of CCTV coverage they have in London means they can track the idiot down.

[--------]

Just reading about it. Crazy stuff. It sounds like it definitely came from outside, hopefully the wealth of CCTV coverage they have in London means they can track the idiot down.

I hope so. Crossbows are very nasty gadgets indeed.

Hope all goes well and safely at Edgbaston tomorrow.

[lord bunberry]

Just reading about it. Crazy stuff. It sounds like it definitely came from outside, hopefully the wealth of CCTV coverage they have in London means they can track the idiot down.
Apparently it went around three or four inches into the ground, if that had hit someone it could've killed them.

[--------]

On a happier note - I watched quite a bit of T20 Finals Day at Edgbaston.

Three very good games of T20 and lots of fun. Lots of kids and families, a super atmosphere and Bumble and Flintoff leading the crowd singing "Sweet Caroline" while the polis removed a streaker who looked uncannily like W G Grace ....

:wtf: I must be losing my mind.

[marinello59]

On a happier note - I watched quite a bit of T20 Finals Day at Edgbaston.

Three very good games of T20 and lots of fun. Lots of kids and families, a super atmosphere and Bumble and Flintoff leading the crowd singing "Sweet Caroline" while the polis removed a streaker who looked uncannily like W G Grace ....

:wtf: I must be losing my mind.

We went down for finals day last year, a brilliant day with as much happening in the stands as there was on the pitch. Watching yesterday though they have managed to crank it up even further, great fun.

[Mibbes Aye]

On a happier note - I watched quite a bit of T20 Finals Day at Edgbaston.

Three very good games of T20 and lots of fun. Lots of kids and families, a super atmosphere and Bumble and Flintoff leading the crowd singing "Sweet Caroline" while the polis removed a streaker who looked uncannily like W G Grace ....

:wtf: I must be losing my mind.


We went down for finals day last year, a brilliant day with as much happening in the stands as there was on the pitch. Watching yesterday though they have managed to crank it up even further, great fun.

Totally missed the stuff at Edgbaston yesterday but will make a point of getting there for next year with the kids, it sounds like a great day out.

[--------]

Totally missed the stuff at Edgbaston yesterday but will make a point of getting there for next year with the kids, it sounds like a great day out.


It looked to be great fun with some very good T20 cricket played over the day and no real hassle apart from WG getting his kecks off ...



... and Bumble and Freddie trying to sing, of course. That pair should be X-rated. :greengrin

[marinello59]

It looked to be great fun with some very good T20 cricket played over the day and no real hassle apart from WG getting his kecks off ...



... and Bumble and Freddie trying to sing, of course. That pair should be X-rated. :greengrin

Freddie managed to top Bumble's Johnny Cash wig for comedy value when he fell over a speaker. :greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

Freddie managed to top Bumble's Johnny Cash wig for comedy value when he fell over a speaker. :greengrin

You get the impression with Freddie that even if he hasn't been drinking, he's naturally half-cut :greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

It looked to be great fun with some very good T20 cricket played over the day and no real hassle apart from WG getting his kecks off ...



... and Bumble and Freddie trying to sing, of course. That pair should be X-rated. :greengrin

I was always a bit wary of T20 as I thought it was a genuine threat to Test cricket. Faster with the important moments jammed into a shorter timespan, the curse of our age.

I get how exciting it is though and I've got friends who got into cricket generally as a result of watching it. And I'm heartened by the last England-WI Test which went to the final session of the final day, plus the success of the Bangladesh side, developing into a real force. That reinforces the strength of the Test format in my mind.

I believe Edgbaston has been awarded the T20 Finals day for 2018, I'll definitely be looking to attend :agree:

[--------]

I was always a bit wary of T20 as I thought it was a genuine threat to Test cricket. Faster with the important moments jammed into a shorter timespan, the curse of our age.

I get how exciting it is though and I've got friends who got into cricket generally as a result of watching it. And I'm heartened by the last England-WI Test which went to the final session of the final day, plus the success of the Bangladesh side, developing into a real force. That reinforces the strength of the Test format in my mind.

I believe Edgbaston has been awarded the T20 Finals day for 2018, I'll definitely be looking to attend :agree:

I think we should look at India - IPL plus very strong 50-over and 20-over international sides PLUS some of the best women's and junior cricket organisations in the game. I see no reason why a batter shouldn't be able to work out which kind of cricket he/she is playing and adjust his/her game accordingly. Nor why a governing body shouldn't be able to organise the game to emulate the Indians.

I don't think test cricket as such is under threat (yet) - but it isn't helped by matches like the previous test against WI or one or two of the SA tests? The saving of the SA series was that the series itself went to the last match. It does need to 'improve the product' shall we say? Dead rubbers and meaningless last days are utterly counterproductive.

I think Sky's presentation of test cricket - the presenters and pundits are very good and FAR superior to all but a very few of the alleged "experts" who pontificate on association football - doesn't hurt. Watch and listen, and the new viewer can learn a whole lot.

And I do wish televised sport generally was a lot less dependent on the betting companies.

I've come to REALLY LOATHE Ray Winstone - and BetFred, and all the rest of them. Every single break in play - "Oi bet responsibly wiv Bet-free-six-foive ..." :grr:

[marinello59]

A decent day for Jimmy Anderson. :greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

A decent day for Jimmy Anderson. :greengrin

Very good day and Test for Jimmy Anderson :agree:

How long he can keep pulling it out I don't know. I would love to see his figures since he turned thirty, compared to his career stats, as once he finally found his true form he has never stopped delivering (no pun intended).

Fascinating Test series. I'm on holiday so have been relying on a little bit of TMS and mostly press reports for coverage of the last Test.

For the Windies they can take a great deal away, Shai Hope looks a bit special. There were times, especially fielding in the second Test when they looked like they had great team spirit.

Brathwaite looks to to have real potential, maybe needs a bit more durability to his game. I'd be more concerned if I was the other Hope or Powell. Blackwood has the air of someone who could develop into quite an insouciant lower-order batsman, especially if there was more robustness above him in the batting order.

Gabriel and Holder are big men. With a bit of discipline, Gabriel in particular, you wouldn't fancy facing them on a hard pitch. Bishoo is a quandary. He reminds me of English spinners, somewhere before and around the time Warne (and Murali) showed that a spinner could be a match winner in the modern game. England went through several of them, none ever truly inspiring confidence. For every five-for you would get several mediocre performances and then some truly abject ones.

As for England, it's an intriguing position with no more Tests before the Ashes. Stoneman has probably done enough to scrape through, there is talk of Ballance replacing Westley. I think the Australians will be happy enough either way.

On a sadder note, I only found out after the match that this was Henry Blofeld's last commentary for TMS. He really was entertaining, a fine cricket knowledge but with a penchant to allow the commentary to go a-wandering between deliveries, whether to comment on the buses going past the ground or some wry critique of how a particular spectator was dressed. He will be missed.

[--------]

Very good day and Test for Jimmy Anderson :agree:

How long he can keep pulling it out I don't know. I would love to see his figures since he turned thirty, compared to his career stats, as once he finally found his true form he has never stopped delivering (no pun intended).

Fascinating Test series. I'm on holiday so have been relying on a little bit of TMS and mostly press reports for coverage of the last Test.

For the Windies they can take a great deal away, Shai Hope looks a bit special. There were times, especially fielding in the second Test when they looked like they had great team spirit.

Brathwaite looks to to have real potential, maybe needs a bit more durability to his game. I'd be more concerned if I was the other Hope or Powell. Blackwood has the air of someone who could develop into quite an insouciant lower-order batsman, especially if there was more robustness above him in the batting order.

Gabriel and Holder are big men. With a bit of discipline, Gabriel in particular, you wouldn't fancy facing them on a hard pitch. Bishoo is a quandary. He reminds me of English spinners, somewhere before and around the time Warne (and Murali) showed that a spinner could be a match winner in the modern game. England went through several of them, none ever truly inspiring confidence. For every five-for you would get several mediocre performances and then some truly abject ones.

As for England, it's an intriguing position with no more Tests before the Ashes. Stoneman has probably done enough to scrape through, there is talk of Ballance replacing Westley. I think the Australians will be happy enough either way.

On a sadder note, I only found out after the match that this was Henry Blofeld's last commentary for TMS. He really was entertaining, a fine cricket knowledge but with a penchant to allow the commentary to go a-wandering between deliveries, whether to comment on the buses going past the ground or some wry critique of how a particular spectator was dressed. He will be missed.


Good summary of the series. And of Blowers. Still going strong at 78 - there's hope for me yet!

[Mibbes Aye]

Good summary of the series. And of Blowers. Still going strong at 78 - there's hope for me yet!

:greengrin

Im sure you've got plenty in the tank Doddie.

Can't wait for the Ashes, will be booking a few days off work to allow me to stay up all night watching and listening.

[--------]

:greengrin

Im sure you've got plenty in the tank Doddie.

Can't wait for the Ashes, will be booking a few days off work to allow me to stay up all night watching and listening.


Not sure how that's going to go - I can see some of the England players getting a bit of a rude awakening.

An Ashes series isn't just cricket - it's S&M cricket. Blood will flow.

Still, looking forward to it, and I'm retired - there's nae problem in my hoose. Night will turn to day. :greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

Not sure how that's going to go - I can see some of the England players getting a bit of a rude awakening.

An Ashes series isn't just cricket - it's S&M cricket. Blood will flow.

Still, looking forward to it, and I'm retired - there's nae problem in my hoose. Night will turn to day. :greengrin

:greengrin

The Ashes is the making of players. I grew up with it being a steady slaughter of every new English hope facing a relentless Australian bowling and batting side. It's hard to appreciate just how good they were - Hayden and Langer were perhaps the greatest opening partnership since Greenidge and Haynes. Then you had McGrath, the human metronome and Warne, a match winner in his own right. And then Gilchrist, a game changer in his own right! Plus a back-up cast of great players. And prior to them, the Waughs, Steve being one of the best players of all time and Mark being one of the most effortless and classy. With them batting and Craig McDermott and Merv Hughes bowling, you knew you were in for a battle!

England obviously turned a corner around ten years ago, credit to Vaughan and Strauss and the players around them. They've become a competitive team and a team that's transitioned, losing the likes of Swann, Pietersen and Flintoff yet moving on. I think they will struggle when they lose Cook and Anderson, that sounds entirely predictable, but it's a bit like Australia when the players mentioned above started to retire.

Im excited about the Ashes. For the likes of Stoneman and whoever else gets picked for two, three and five it will be like you say. Baptism of fire. What I would love is for Root to man up and move to number three. I think Baylis wants it but we shall see.

Glad that there will be at least two of us burning the midnight oil when the time comes :greengrin

[stantonhibby]

:greengrin

The Ashes is the making of players. I grew up with it being a steady slaughter of every new English hope facing a relentless Australian bowling and batting side. It's hard to appreciate just how good they were - Hayden and Langer were perhaps the greatest opening partnership since Greenidge and Haynes. Then you had McGrath, the human metronome and Warne, a match winner in his own right. And then Gilchrist, a game changer in his own right! Plus a back-up cast of great players. And prior to them, the Waughs, Steve being one of the best players of all time and Mark being one of the most effortless and classy. With them batting and Craig McDermott and Merv Hughes bowling, you knew you were in for a battle!

England obviously turned a corner around ten years ago, credit to Vaughan and Strauss and the players around them. They've become a competitive team and a team that's transitioned, losing the likes of Swann, Pietersen and Flintoff yet moving on. I think they will struggle when they lose Cook and Anderson, that sounds entirely predictable, but it's a bit like Australia when the players mentioned above started to retire.

Im excited about the Ashes. For the likes of Stoneman and whoever else gets picked for two, three and five it will be like you say. Baptism of fire. What I would love is for Root to man up and move to number three. I think Baylis wants it but we shall see.

Glad that there will be at least two of us burning the midnight oil when the time comes :greengrin

Make that 3 of us , although I believe it's on BT Sport and not Sky which I don't currently have !

[Mibbes Aye]

Make that 3 of us , although I believe it's on BT Sport and not Sky which I don't currently have !

That will be a big change if it's moving to BT. I've almost preferred listening to TMS than watching it live on TV, crazy as it sounds. When Channel 4 had it however, they did a really good job. Sky's coverage has been reasonable.

Im not sure who BT would bring in. The guys on ABC in Australia tend to be good and there are a few Australian cricket writers who are impressive, don't know if Gideon Haigh is still active but his work for the Guardain was always insightful.

As I think Doddie mentioned earlier, the standard of commentary and punditry in the cricket coverage is far, far better than football, and it's hard to fathom why.

Hopefully BT make a decent fist of it. Their other coverage has been okay and programmes like the European Football Show on a Sunday evening were absolutely superb, though I think I read it had been axed unfortunately.

[stantonhibby]

That will be a big change if it's moving to BT. I've almost preferred listening to TMS than watching it live on TV, crazy as it sounds. When Channel 4 had it however, they did a really good job. Sky's coverage has been reasonable.

Im not sure who BT would bring in. The guys on ABC in Australia tend to be good and there are a few Australian cricket writers who are impressive, don't know if Gideon Haigh is still active but his work for the Guardain was always insightful.

As I think Doddie mentioned earlier, the standard of commentary and punditry in the cricket coverage is far, far better than football, and it's hard to fathom why.

Hopefully BT make a decent fist of it. Their other coverage has been okay and programmes like the European Football Show on a Sunday evening were absolutely superb, though I think I read it had been axed unfortunately.

BT has Greg James from Radio 1 presenting which sounded a bit iffy but apparently he already does a cricket show on 5Live so must be reasonably knowledgeable. Vaughan, Pietersen , Swann & Ponting signed up as well so a decent line up.

[Mibbes Aye]

BT has Greg James from Radio 1 presenting which sounded a bit iffy but apparently he already does a cricket show on 5Live so must be reasonably knowledgeable. Vaughan, Pietersen , Swann & Ponting signed up as well so a decent line up.

Thanks for that. I like Swann a lot, he's good on commentary. Vaughan is decent on TMS. Greg James will probably be fine, the main presenter needs to be good at continuity, which is his stock in trade as a radio presenter. Similarly I think someone like Jeremy Kyle would be ideal as the next MOTD host .

[Mibbes Aye]

So, James Vince gets the no.3 slot, despite not particularly impressive performances when capped before.

It really does call into question the policy of letting Root pick his place. First in is where you need your best, someone with the temperament to cope with waiting and at the same time someone who can come right in and deal with the new ball. Root brings both those facets to the table.

I like Root but it feels like the fringe players are the sacrificial lambs here. Root averages in the forties at three, which is Test class but I think is in the sixties at four, which is world class. It's a team game though and England would probably get more out the fringe players if they were bled in lower down the order.

[heretoday]

Stokes is obviously a bit of a type.

[lord bunberry]

Stokes is obviously a bit of a type.
Indeed he is. Pretty shocking stuff

https://youtu.be/Cvx07mUJCj4

[Mibbes Aye]

Looks like Pattinson will miss the Ashes for the Aussies. The talk was they were thinking of going with four quickies in Brisbane and possibly throughout the series (and certainly in Perth), along with Lyons, which puts a fair bit of pressure on the top order to perform (and the bowlers to do well with the bat, for that matter).

On the other hand if England were facing a constant rotation of Starc , Hazlewood, Cummings and Pattinson (now likely to be Coulter-Nile), that's going to ramp up the pressure on the newbies in the English team. It's easy to picture some of the aforementioned quartet acquiring some bunnies from this touring side.

Other factor is I don't think there's an obvious number six batsman for Australia at the moment which may encourage them to go very attacking.

Cant wait for it :greengrin

[--------]

Make that 3 of us , although I believe it's on BT Sport and not Sky which I don't currently have !


Make that 4 of us, though without Stokes I think the Aussies will have a much easier time.

Whether the police charge him or not, I'm not sure England can afford to take him out there. Our colonial chums just love to get Pommie red meat to savage, and red meat's exactly what he'll be.

[--------]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41589080

More trouble for Stokes. :rolleyes: