The Celtc problem

[G B Young]

30 points clear at the top of the league, not a single game lost, a treble on the cards, an excellent manager who's probably too 'big' for Scottish football and the prospect of them only getting stronger next season.

It's been an exceptional season for them, no question, but it once again raises the issue of where their utter dominance leaves top flight Scottish football. From fourth place down the other teams are closer to bottom spot than the top. Is there any league on the planet where one team is so absurdly far ahead of the rest? What, really, is the point of a league where only one team can win it?

Celtic leaving the Scottish league to play in England is a solution commonly advocated but we would leave Scotland with an even lesser bargaining position with the TV companies and even less well off financially. My own preferred solution of creating a UK-wide league to add some variety to our rather stale game doesn't curry much favour on here, so what do folk think is the most viable way forward for our top flight?

[BoomtownHibees]

30 points clear at the top of the league, not a single game lost, a treble on the cards, an excellent manager who's probably too 'big' for Scottish football and the prospect of them only getting stronger next season.

It's been an exceptional season for them, no question, but it once again raises the issue of where their utter dominance leaves top flight Scottish football. From fourth place down the other teams are closer to bottom spot than the top. Is there any league on the planet where one team is so absurdly far ahead of the rest? What, really, is the point of a league where only one team can win it?

Celtic leaving the Scottish league to play in England is a solution commonly advocated but we would leave Scotland with an even lesser bargaining position with the TV companies and even less well off financially. My own preferred solution of creating a UK-wide league to add some variety to our rather stale game doesn't curry much favour on here, so what do folk think is the most viable way forward for our top flight?

3rd place are also closer to the bottom than the top

[lucky]

I used to favour a U.K. League but it's clearly never going to happen so we need concentrate on our own league. A fairer distribution of tv money & splitting gate money would make it a level playing field. I'd also consider moving our football calendar to spring/summer where it might generate more tv money

[CropleyWasGod]

30 points clear at the top of the league, not a single game lost, a treble on the cards, an excellent manager who's probably too 'big' for Scottish football and the prospect of them only getting stronger next season.

It's been an exceptional season for them, no question, but it once again raises the issue of where their utter dominance leaves top flight Scottish football. From fourth place down the other teams are closer to bottom spot than the top. Is there any league on the planet where one team is so absurdly far ahead of the rest? What, really, is the point of a league where only one team can win it?

Celtic leaving the Scottish league to play in England is a solution commonly advocated but we would leave Scotland with an even lesser bargaining position with the TV companies and even less well off financially. My own preferred solution of creating a UK-wide league to add some variety to our rather stale game doesn't curry much favour on here, so what do folk think is the most viable way forward for our top flight?

I'm not sure about this bit.

We have shown this year that fans will come out to watch winning teams, no matter the standard of football.

At the moment, teams are playing for second place; it's not that long ago that they were playing for third. But, if you start the season with 6-7 teams all thinking that they have a chance of winning the league, the competition is keener, and the crowds consequently higher.

As for the TV audiences, let's not forget that our home game against United was a virtual sell-out... a game in the second division... but it was still live on telly. The product is there.

[DarlingtonHibee]

30 points clear at the top of the league, not a single game lost, a treble on the cards, an excellent manager who's probably too 'big' for Scottish football and the prospect of them only getting stronger next season.

It's been an exceptional season for them, no question, but it once again raises the issue of where their utter dominance leaves top flight Scottish football. From fourth place down the other teams are closer to bottom spot than the top. Is there any league on the planet where one team is so absurdly far ahead of the rest? What, really, is the point of a league where only one team can win it?

Celtic leaving the Scottish league to play in England is a solution commonly advocated but we would leave Scotland with an even lesser bargaining position with the TV companies and even less well off financially. My own preferred solution of creating a UK-wide league to add some variety to our rather stale game doesn't curry much favour on here, so what do folk think is the most viable way forward for our top flight?
The Old Firm will never be allowed to come down here. The Police will never allow it.

[Since90+2]

At the moment they have an exceptional manager who would not look out of place managing any club in England but Rodgers wont be there forever.

Once Rodgers leaves in a year or so the gap will probably narrow and it will revert back to how it was under Strachan / Deila with teams winning the odd game against them. I dont know what the odds at the bookies of them winning 10 in a row are but I reckon its probably more likely to happen than not.

[Jones28]

The Old Firm will never be allowed to come down here. The Police will never allow it.

This, look at what happened the last time we let the Huns out their cage for a major game.

[Captain Trips]

I do not understand why the possibility of playing down south was justvan OF thing.

Burnley, Watford, Hull and Swansea have an average attendance of 20k

Bournemouth have average of 11k.

You give us £100m+ already in a nice city to attract players as now in English league think we would do alright also actually.

[green&left]

This, look at what happened the last time we let the Huns out their cage for a major game.

There's about 40 police forces in England, i really doubt they'll have a say on whether two Scottish football clubs could play football down there. They won't play in England as currently there is no value to English football of having the old firm down there just now, things are booming as it is.


With regards to Celtic this season they were utter pish last season and still romped the league with 15 points....

[G B Young]

I'm not sure about this bit.

We have shown this year that fans will come out to watch winning teams, no matter the standard of football.

At the moment, teams are playing for second place; it's not that long ago that they were playing for third. But, if you start the season with 6-7 teams all thinking that they have a chance of winning the league, the competition is keener, and the crowds consequently higher.

As for the TV audiences, let's not forget that our home game against United was a virtual sell-out... a game in the second division... but it was still live on telly. The product is there.

What I meant was that without Celtic as part of the package, it's hard to imagine Sky/BT Sports would offer the same deal, irrespective of whether the league is more competitive, hence clubs would likely be worse off despite decent crowds.

While I agree the crowds ARE there, I do wonder if there would be a hollow feel to the league if its biggest club were to leave ie would there need to be an asterisk in the stats books alongside subsequent league tables to denote something like *title won post-Celtic departure? It's just my view, but once you start breaking up a league I think it would be better to go the whole hog and start something else afresh. For me that would be a UK league (and as somebody else has pointed out, Hibs would be a great away match for a lot of clubs given Edinburgh's popularity as a city) but I can't see it happening any day soon.

[Robinho08]

Pains me to say it, but Sevco will get a stronger too and the league will return to normal pre 2012, fighting it out for 3rd place.

[cleanyman]

Celtic will fall eventually.

All goes around in one big circle...I think Rangers will win the league within the next 3 seasons.

[jacomo]

I do not understand why the possibility of playing down south was justvan OF thing.

Burnley, Watford, Hull and Swansea have an average attendance of 20k

Bournemouth have average of 11k.

You give us £100m+ already in a nice city to attract players as now in English league think we would do alright also actually.


:agree:

Hibs is a bigger club than many in the EPL or English 2nd tier.

[lyonhibs]

I don't really see it as a problem. It's a reality, and one that will continue to get more pronounced.

What we need is for Scottish football fans and authorities to stop talking down our own national game as "pish" and get on with it. Engage with the local community to hopefully, over time, make a dent in the thousands who drive past their local teams' stadia en route to Parkhead or Ibrox every other weekend.

Have a go in the big games such that some other team in Scotland get a reputation for playing good football other than Celtic.

Under Mowbray we had no more of a chance - ultimately - of winning the league but the stadium was almost full the whole time because, win, lose or draw, the football was exciting most of the time.

[makaveli1875]

Celtic will fall eventually.

All goes around in one big circle...I think Rangers will win the league within the next 3 seasons.

Cant see it , Celtic will get 10 in a row , Rodgers has another 4 years on his deal . Not a chance the huns are winning the league while he's there , especially not with the portuguese Cathro in charge

[green&left]

Celtic will fall eventually.

All goes around in one big circle...I think Rangers will win the league within the next 3 seasons.

I suspect Scottish football will return to its 'norm' within the next decade but i'd be very surprised if Rangers win the league in the next 3 seasons. Celtic must have millions stashed away from transfer fee's, their merchandise is worth millions and is booming and Celtic Park is will pretty much be complete after their new £1m desso pitch goes in. The huns on the other hand have a crumbling Ibrox, the Sports Direct saga going on, a diddy manager and team needing rebuilt. I do expect them to finish 2nd in the next 2-3 seasons however purely due to the resources available to them (They've sold 34,000 season tickets already for next season)

[hibbiedon]

30 points clear at the top of the league, not a single game lost, a treble on the cards, an excellent manager who's probably too 'big' for Scottish football and the prospect of them only getting stronger next season.

It's been an exceptional season for them, no question, but it once again raises the issue of where their utter dominance leaves top flight Scottish football. From fourth place down the other teams are closer to bottom spot than the top. Is there any league on the planet where one team is so absurdly far ahead of the rest? What, really, is the point of a league where only one team can win it?

Celtic leaving the Scottish league to play in England is a solution commonly advocated but we would leave Scotland with an even lesser bargaining position with the TV companies and even less well off financially. My own preferred solution of creating a UK-wide league to add some variety to our rather stale game doesn't curry much favour on here, so what do folk think is the most viable way forward for our top flight?

if Celtic and their blue twins leave the Scottish league, I honestly think the opposite will happen. Teams like Hibs Aberdeen hahahearts will be challenging for the title and trophies, crowds will increase, just look at easter road this season, with larger crowds sponsorship increases there is a better atmosphere and it is a better prospect for tv companies.
Making a Uk league is a recipe for disaster. I know people like Wallace Mercer Gordon Brown etc believe in a better together future. What would happen to the national team if you don't even have a league and are not a country will FIFA allow a national Scotland team

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

Re-distribution of income via sponsorship/tv deals
Split gate receipts
bigger league (16 is my preference, and you can even keep the nonsense split)
minimum of 5 players in matchday squad to be home grown on trained by that team for x number of years


All these would, over a period of time result in better younger players being produced by the country whilst hopefully bridging the gap.

IMO this Celtic team isnt even the best in the last 5 years never mind ever (and the 2003 team would wipe the floor with them). The manager of course has a significant contribution and deserves massive praise for getting the best out of his players and keeping them motivated BUT basing it on when they played for Celtic:

Forster > Gordon
Van Dijk/Denayer/Ambrose > take your pick, any current CH
Matthews/Lustig > current Lustig
Ledley > Rogic
Commons > Armstrong
Hooper > Griffiths

Granted there'll be exceptions, for example Scott Brown is arguably playing the best football of his life, Tierney, Dembele, Sinclair (he done well in England eh) but you've got to ask how many of these players can perform at the top level? John Guidetti was a "star" up here but flopped down south.

[JimBHibees]

Re-distribution of income via sponsorship/tv deals
Split gate receipts
bigger league (16 is my preference, and you can even keep the nonsense split)
minimum of 5 players in matchday squad to be home grown on trained by that team for x number of years


All these would, over a period of time result in better younger players being produced by the country whilst hopefully bridging the gap.

IMO this Celtic team isnt even the best in the last 5 years never mind ever (and the 2003 team would wipe the floor with them). The manager of course has a significant contribution and deserves massive praise for getting the best out of his players and keeping them motivated BUT basing it on when they played for Celtic:

Forster > Gordon
Van Dijk/Denayer/Ambrose > take your pick, any current CH
Matthews/Lustig > current Lustig
Ledley > Rogic
Commons > Armstrong
Hooper > Griffiths

Granted there'll be exceptions, for example Scott Brown is arguably playing the best football of his life, Tierney, Dembele, Sinclair (he done well in England eh) but you've got to ask how many of these players can perform at the top level? John Guidetti was a "star" up here but flopped down south.

Guidetti was hardly a star in Scotland scored 8 goals. The current Celtic team have a number of excellent young talents Tierney, Dembele, Roberts but guys like Armstrong and McGregor are unrecognisable under Rodgers..

[DarlingtonHibee]

There's about 40 police forces in England, i really doubt they'll have a say on whether two Scottish football clubs could play football down there. They won't play in England as currently there is no value to English football of having the old firm down there just now, things are booming as it is.


With regards to Celtic this season they were utter pish last season and still romped the league with 15 points....

It was 43,maybe a few mergers since. My sources are Chief Constables.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

Guidetti was hardly a star in Scotland scored 8 goals. The current Celtic team have a number of excellent young talents Tierney, Dembele, Roberts but guys like Armstrong and McGregor are unrecognisable under Rodgers..

Their fans slavoured over him when he was here. He actually scored 15 in all competitions. They do have excellent young talent, Roberts isnt their player and he played excellent last year when Rodgers wasn't here. McGregor actually played well last year also. Tierney and Armstrong appear to have improved significantly

[JimBHibees]

Their fans slavoured over him when he was here. He actually scored 15 in all competitions. They do have excellent young talent, Roberts isnt their player and he played excellent last year when Rodgers wasn't here. McGregor actually played well last year also. Tierney and Armstrong appear to have improved significantly

Not actually a sign he was any good. :greengrin Think his popularity with the fans was down to him slagging off Rangers.

[PeeKay]

Can't see splitting the gate money being accepted by the bigger clubs so long as clubs like Hamilton bring so little to the table - home and away.

[Elephant Stone]

Re-distribution of income via sponsorship/tv deals
Split gate receipts
bigger league (16 is my preference, and you can even keep the nonsense split)
minimum of 5 players in matchday squad to be home grown on trained by that team for x number of years


All these would, over a period of time result in better younger players being produced by the country whilst hopefully bridging the gap.

IMO this Celtic team isnt even the best in the last 5 years never mind ever (and the 2003 team would wipe the floor with them). The manager of course has a significant contribution and deserves massive praise for getting the best out of his players and keeping them motivated BUT basing it on when they played for Celtic:

Forster > Gordon
Van Dijk/Denayer/Ambrose > take your pick, any current CH
Matthews/Lustig > current Lustig
Ledley > Rogic
Commons > Armstrong
Hooper > Griffiths

Granted there'll be exceptions, for example Scott Brown is arguably playing the best football of his life, Tierney, Dembele, Sinclair (he done well in England eh) but you've got to ask how many of these players can perform at the top level? John Guidetti was a "star" up here but flopped down south.

Van Dijk and Wanyama are the only 2 players they've lost who'd be guaranteed a place in their current team.

[J-C]

Celtic and Rangers have dominated Scottish football since Celtic came into existence, a few teams have sneaked in every now and then and won the league and some even had a good few years where they challenged regularly, Hibs(50's & 70's) Aberdeen(Fergie) and Hearts(1890's and late 50's) but in general the OF have one most things most years.

The best we and others can expect is coming 2nd or 3rd with a very occasional league win thrown in out the blue now and then.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

Van Dijk and Wanyama are the only 2 players they've lost who'd be guaranteed a place in their current team.

Right enough, Wanyama totally forgot about him. Cannot agree regarding the rest of the players. The ones i quoted imo are much better than current players

[Captain Trips]

One team dominating then yeah there is achance of a slip up but let The Rangers come back then thats 2 teams and we do not need that. We need to try and do better than The Rangers for me while we can.

[Sammy7nil]

Celtic will fall eventually.

All goes around in one big circle...I think Rangers will win the league within the next 3 seasons.

You would get a decent return for that bet, I really cant see rangers even challenging in the next 3 years the league will be won be at least 10 points and probably more for some time yet imho.

[Sir David Gray]

Celtic will fall eventually.

All goes around in one big circle...I think Rangers will win the league within the next 3 seasons.

If Rodgers stays there over the next 3 years, there's not a chance Rangers are winning the league in that time.

[cleanyman]

I'm saving this thread :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Split gate receipts would be terrible for Hibs. After spending a fortune rebuilding Easter road to attract customers people want to give half the money to the likes of Motherwell who have not spent a penny on Fir Park in years.



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[Ozyhibby]

Sevco will not be challenging any time soon. They are much more likely to go bust again.


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[GreenNWhiteArmy]

Split gate receipts would be terrible for Hibs. After spending a fortune rebuilding Easter road to attract customers people want to give half the money to the likes of Motherwell who have not spent a penny on Fir Park in years.



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Whilst we spend that fortune upgrading our stadium and training centre, teams like Motherwell were finishing consistently in the European slots in the league. Champions League once i believe as well?

For the country to have a better league set up the finances for every team needs to be re-distributed and fairer. It can't just benefit Hibs

[Since90+2]

Hearts are more likely to beat Celtic on Sunday than split gate receipts being introduced into Scottish football for league fixtures.

[Hibs Class]

Celtic will fall eventually.

All goes around in one big circle...I think Rangers will win the league within the next 3 seasons.

Would be hugely surprised - think The Rangers are miles off right now and still in disarray. Hard to see how, never mind when, they'll get their act together.

[mjhibby]

Cant see it , Celtic will get 10 in a row , Rodgers has another 4 years on his deal . Not a chance the huns are winning the league while he's there , especially not with the portuguese Cathro in charge

At the moment there is absolutely no chance of sevco winning the league in the next four or five years. If/when Rodgers goes then the gap will close but sevco need a massive overhaul of players and some sort of recruitment structure in place to remotely challenge Celtic. At the moment Celtic resemble the Liverpool of the eighties as you can see them winning trophy after trophy. Even if they sell the likes of dembele and tierney it will give them more money to buy better players and should they continue to get to the champions league group stages they will pull even further away from sevco. I'm more interested in the battle for second to fourth. I don't anticipate us being second but would like to think that we can challenge for fourth. As we've shown if we can keep winning odd trophy the fans turn out and I'm sure Lennon will be targeting a cup as well as top four.

[ancient hibee]

Whilst we spend that fortune upgrading our stadium and training centre, teams like Motherwell were finishing consistently in the European slots in the league. Champions League once i believe as well?

For the country to have a better league set up the finances for every team needs to be re-distributed and fairer. It can't just benefit Hibs
The point is that it would penalise Hibs.We were in the lead in bringing in the current system and quite right too.

[lord bunberry]

I'm not scared of them. They're only winning the league like they are because we're not in it FACT.
Next season will be different.

[InchHibby]

I think each team should keep their home games definitely.
But all other finances brought in should be distributed equally, no matter if the West coast mobs are on telly week in week out. It's those running the game that have got us into this position, their narrow mindedness and selfish attitudes towards them that are ruining our game.
And why not tell the TV companies to beat it until they come up with a better deal for Scottish football.
100 million would be a drop in the ocean to the likes of Sky Sports and that would go a long way in enhancing the Scottish Leagues.
The problem is, as I've previously said, the SFA aren't bothered about anyone else bar these two.
That's been evident for decades now, and most of us could see the decline slowly coming, they must have also but refused to sort it.

[WhileTheChief..]

Splitting gate receipts is a horrible idea.

Why should my season ticket money be used to subsidise Ross Co or whoever?

Why should Old Firm fans pay to help us get a better team?!

Utter madness.

It's up to the rest of us to try and compete. If you look at most leagues across Europe they are generally won by the same handful of clubs. Doesn't mean the rest of them should give up does it?

Nothing wrong with our league now that we're back in it :greengrin

[Diclonius]

I would be very happy if a UK-wide league was created. We'd be filling out ER no problem every week and we'd have buckets of money. Keep the Scottish Cup so we still have a change of winning something and I'm sold.

[Steve20]

Celtic will fall eventually.

All goes around in one big circle...I think Rangers will win the league within the next 3 seasons.

No chance. Rangers would need someone willing to put tens of millions into their team to even challenge Celtic, never mind win the league. There is no such person. Celtic will win the league now until there is a merger of leagues with other countries, which just won't happen.

We need to concentrate on trying to become the 2nd best team in the country, or if Rangers do improve that wee bit that takes them ahead of the rest of us, then the 3rd best team in the country regularly.

[WhileTheChief..]

There should be a trophy for finishing 2nd then we would all have something to play for :greengrin

[seanshow]

Looking at the Celtic dominance from a selfish Hibs point of view ( which is the way most clubs act ), I don't see what difference it makes, neither of the Edinburgh clubs has won the league for well over a hundred years between them, and yet the Hibs fans still turn up in numbers.

Clubs have been forced to pay their bills, and sporting integrity has been vaguely established, let's get it on :)

...The fact that Celtic are more or less setting the rules for the SPFL is a different story.

[Keith_M]

Bayern Munich have won almost half of all Bundesliga titles since it's inception in 1963. They're currently on their fifth title in succession with no team looking like toppling them any time soon.

They've won 12 out of 18 titles this century (1999-00 to 2016-17)

So it's not restricted to Scotland.

[Waxy]

I know England probably wont have the old firm, but have we asked other countries? Maybe Norway or France might take them? Worth an ask?

[Waxy]

I reckon the only solution is to have play-offs for the title. Play out the league games and the team positioned 1 goes straight to thr final. Teams 2 and 3 play-off to reach the final. Massive superbowl type championship final at the end of it all.

[TheGreenMan]

Bayern Munich have won almost half of all Bundesliga titles since it's inception in 1963. They're currently on their fifth title in succession with no team looking like toppling them any time soon.

They've won 12 out of 18 titles this century (1999-00 to 2016-17)

So it's not restricted to Scotland.


And Juve will win their 6th league in a row this weekend. Scottish clubs outwith Celtic really need to try and make some sort of impact in Europa league, qualifying for groups regularly, its more or less the same as many other leagues just at a lower level.

[Ozyhibby]

I reckon the only solution is to have play-offs for the title. Play out the league games and the team positioned 1 goes straight to thr final. Teams 2 and 3 play-off to reach the final. Massive superbowl type championship final at the end of it all.

That works brilliantly in Australia and creates a real exiting climax to the season. It's like the play off on steroids.


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[Big L]

That works brilliantly in Australia and creates a real exiting climax to the season. It's like the play off on steroids.


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Sounds as if it would bring excitement and great interest, albeit, a bit unfair on a team that finishes 30 pts in front and loses it in a one off game.

[AndyM_1875]

If Rodgers stays there over the next 3 years, there's not a chance Rangers are winning the league in that time.

There is little chance Rodgers will still be around at Celtic for the next 3 years. He was damaged goods when he came to Celtic and has rebuilt his reputation.
He also appears to be the first name that comes to mind from Arsenal fans looking at the post Wenger period when that eventually happens.

Celtic are good to watch though right now but as we saw with even Barcelona who for a period were the best side I have ever watched, all empires fall and teams eventually get found out.

[NAE NOOKIE]

We have discussed British leagues, the Uglies going to England on their own and who knows what else on this forum over the years. The only way that's ever going to happen IMO would be if the English giants like Man Utd and Arsenal decided that their future lay in a money spinning European league leaving room for the likes of Celtic to fill the gap.

The truth is, as somebody else alluded to in a post, that what we need to do is start some sort of campaign run by all non OF Scottish fans to encourage kids around Scotland to, if not support their local club, then at least not support the two erse cheeks ...... Celtic and Rangers play in front of crowds that are vastly out of proportion to the size of the city and I for one do not believe the support the have in Northern Ireland contributes significantly to the size of their crowds on a Saturday.

Their crowds are vastly inflated by 'supporters' from the Lanarkshire and Ayrshire towns and places like Greenock and Paisley .... not to mention the thousands who flock there from the east of Scotland ...... Its time we as fans ramped up the 'glory hunters' tag to such proportions that a non Glasgow OF fan will be ashamed to admit he or she is one ..... we have always held these folk in contempt, its time we 'all' found an organised way to show it.

Aye, but ma dad supported the Gers ..... so you come from a long line of glory hunters then :cb

[HibernianJK]

Cant see it , Celtic will get 10 in a row , Rodgers has another 4 years on his deal . Not a chance the huns are winning the league while he's there , especially not with the portuguese Cathro in charge

Another season like this and Rodgers won't be anywhere near Celtic IMO. Another one of the big boys in England will come calling.

[El Gubbz]

Re-distribution of income via sponsorship/tv deals
Split gate receipts
bigger league (16 is my preference, and you can even keep the nonsense split)
minimum of 5 players in matchday squad to be home grown on trained by that team for x number of years


All these would, over a period of time result in better younger players being produced by the country whilst hopefully bridging the gap.

IMO this Celtic team isnt even the best in the last 5 years never mind ever (and the 2003 team would wipe the floor with them). The manager of course has a significant contribution and deserves massive praise for getting the best out of his players and keeping them motivated BUT basing it on when they played for Celtic:

Forster > Gordon
Van Dijk/Denayer/Ambrose > take your pick, any current CH
Matthews/Lustig > current Lustig
Ledley > Rogic
Commons > Armstrong
Hooper > Griffiths

Granted there'll be exceptions, for example Scott Brown is arguably playing the best football of his life, Tierney, Dembele, Sinclair (he done well in England eh) but you've got to ask how many of these players can perform at the top level? John Guidetti was a "star" up here but flopped down south.

Speaking to a Celtc fan at work and he's crying out for all of the above points that you've mad. I never realised but the gate receipt used to be split until the OF changed the rules.

12 team league gives too many teams the fear factor when it comes to producing players - just look at how many teams have been dragged into the relegation battle this year. No one is willing to take a risk on bleeding the young players in to the squad and as a result there's hardly any decent Scottish talents emerging.

How do we go about getting the ugly sisters to split the gate receipt?

[bigwheel]

Re-distribution of income via sponsorship/tv deals
Split gate receipts
bigger league (16 is my preference, and you can even keep the nonsense split)
minimum of 5 players in matchday squad to be home grown on trained by that team for x number of years


All these would, over a period of time result in better younger players being produced by the country whilst hopefully bridging the gap.

IMO this Celtic team isnt even the best in the last 5 years never mind ever (and the 2003 team would wipe the floor with them). The manager of course has a significant contribution and deserves massive praise for getting the best out of his players and keeping them motivated BUT basing it on when they played for Celtic:

Forster > Gordon
Van Dijk/Denayer/Ambrose > take your pick, any current CH
Matthews/Lustig > current Lustig
Ledley > Rogic
Commons > Armstrong
Hooper > Griffiths

Granted there'll be exceptions, for example Scott Brown is arguably playing the best football of his life, Tierney, Dembele, Sinclair (he done well in England eh) but you've got to ask how many of these players can perform at the top level? John Guidetti was a "star" up here but flopped down south.


Guidetti played a total of 24 games up here...scoring 8 goals

[Ozyhibby]

Sounds as if it would bring excitement and great interest, albeit, a bit unfair on a team that finishes 30 pts in front and loses it in a one off game.

The level of interest Grand final day creates in Oz is bigger than anything we manage in this country for a sporting event. It really is a great day whoever is in the final. And the play offs for the final are heavily weighted in favour of the team who wins the minor premeirship so there is a benefit in finishing top of the league. It makes for a great few weeks at the end of the season.


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[PeeKay]

I reckon the only solution is to have play-offs for the title. Play out the league games and the team positioned 1 goes straight to thr final. Teams 2 and 3 play-off to reach the final. Massive superbowl type championship final at the end of it all.

Unfortunately a "play-off" is exactly the finale to the season we have this year - it's called the William Hill Scottish Cup Final.

[Waxy]

Unfortunately a "play-off" is exactly the finale to the season we have this year - it's called the William Hill Scottish Cup Final.
A bit tweaking of the timings needed. Is Scottish football just going to go on like this forever? I'd rather see play-offs for the title. The alternative is a forever snorefest as the rich win always or a breakaway league.

[ekhibee]

Van Dijk and Wanyama are the only 2 players they've lost who'd be guaranteed a place in their current team.
Fraser Forster would, I think he's an excellent keeper.

[Ozyhibby]

A bit tweaking of the timings needed. Is Scottish football just going to go on like this forever? I'd rather see play-offs for the title. The alternative is a forever snorefest as the rich win always or a breakaway league.

We could also have a salary cap in the league which also works well in leagues across the world.


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[lyonhibs]

The level of interest Grand final day creates in Oz is bigger than anything we manage in this country for a sporting event. It really is a great day whoever is in the final. And the play offs for the final are heavily weighted in favour of the team who wins the minor premeirship so there is a benefit in finishing top of the league. It makes for a great few weeks at the end of the season.


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The team finishing top after the regular league games must win the league. None of this Americanisation pish.

[HoboHarry]

The team finishing top after the regular league games must win the league. None of this Americanisation pish.
Then tell that to all of those who bitch and whine about Scottish football being s***e because Celtic win it so easily......

[Since90+2]

Whoever accumulates the most points over the league season should always be the Champions.

A play off would be farcical , can you imagine a team won the league by 20-30 points and then lost out in the playoff final to a dodgy last minute decision?

[Marco G]

Splitting gate receipts is a horrible idea.

Why should my season ticket money be used to subsidise Ross Co or whoever?

Why should Old Firm fans pay to help us get a better team?!

Utter madness.

It's up to the rest of us to try and compete. If you look at most leagues across Europe they are generally won by the same handful of clubs. Doesn't mean the rest of them should give up does it?

Nothing wrong with our league now that we're back in it :greengrin
Exactly. Splitting gate receipts helps the teams that get poor home gates. We are not in that category.

Prize money rewards teams based on merit. What we need is to get someone in charge at SPFL who can get a decent TV deal.

Imo I have seen as many gash matches from England as Scotland on Sky and BT, so we should spend a bit more time talking up our football rather than doing it down.

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[lyonhibs]

Then tell that to all of those who bitch and whine about Scottish football being s***e because Celtic win it so easily......

I will, with pleasure.

[greenlex]

Until we only play each other twice no one will get near them. You have a chance of beating them maybe once. If thats the case its how you do against the rest that will define your season. Currently the chances are they beat you the other three times. Youre 6 points behind before facing anyone else. When Rangers get their act together they might get closer but we are all just making up the numbers as we have done for donkeys. Its a case of by how many for them rather than if.

[Speedway]

There's only one future for Scottish football - kill the cancer.

Bye bye OF to anywhere at all and have a Scottish League and cup and euro qualification that any of 6-8 teams could claim every season.

Punters would watch, therefore TV would cover, therefore sponsors would support.

There's no other way.

[ancient hibee]

Speaking to a Celtc fan at work and he's crying out for all of the above points that you've mad. I never realised but the gate receipt used to be split until the OF changed the rules.

12 team league gives too many teams the fear factor when it comes to producing players - just look at how many teams have been dragged into the relegation battle this year. No one is willing to take a risk on bleeding the young players in to the squad and as a result there's hardly any decent Scottish talents emerging.

How do we go about getting the ugly sisters to split the gate receipt?
The old firm didn't change the rules.Hibs led the way.Tom Hart agitated for it for years.

[where'stheslope]

I think each team should keep their home games definitely.
But all other finances brought in should be distributed equally, no matter if the West coast mobs are on telly week in week out. It's those running the game that have got us into this position, their narrow mindedness and selfish attitudes towards them that are ruining our game.
And why not tell the TV companies to beat it until they come up with a better deal for Scottish football.
100 million would be a drop in the ocean to the likes of Sky Sports and that would go a long way in enhancing the Scottish Leagues.
The problem is, as I've previously said, the SFA aren't bothered about anyone else bar these two.
That's been evident for decades now, and most of us could see the decline slowly coming, they must have also but refused to sort it.

All to true!!!!

Only problem is if Scottish Football received a £100 million pay day from SKY the SFA and SPFL would make sure most of the money made its way to the big two from Glasgow?

Last time it was Setanta money and it tore Scottish Football apart and that rift is still felt today!!!

Fixing Scottish Football is a Glasgow thing, they've been doing it for YEARS!!!!!!!

[21.05.2016]

Celtic will fall eventually.

All goes around in one big circle...I think Rangers will win the league within the next 3 seasons.

Really?! I'd be extremely surprised. No way are they 3 years or less away from winning the league, not unless they turn to old habits and break the bank again which admittedly isn't out with the realms of possibility as their nightmare of celtic getting 10 in a row draws closer. As much as I hate to admit it, nobody will be in touching distance of celtic anytime soon.

I mentioned this on another thread last week, but one of the biggest problems with celtic is them hoovering up every bit of talent from other clubs in this country. They poach any talent but still bleat on about how theres lack of competition for them in this country. Riordan being the biggest example of ruined talent at celtic. Scott Allan another one, who i'm still convinced celtic only bought to get it right up the huns. I pray Cummings or McGinn don't end up there, far too much talent to be wasted warming the bench at celtic. As good a player as they both are, they aren't good enough for starting 11 at celtic IMO. Maybe in time but not now.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

I used to favour a U.K. League but it's clearly never going to happen so we need concentrate on our own league. A fairer distribution of tv money & splitting gate money would make it a level playing field. I'd also consider moving our football calendar to spring/summer where it might generate more tv money

Agree with this but such sensible ideas will never be considered by the SFA.

[CPHibees]

Franchise the Scottish game, pool the gate money, strips and TV money. I think the American NFL model would be good with the bottom teams getting the pick of the best talent

[erin go bragh]

The Old Firm will never be allowed to come down here. The Police will never allow it.
But Celtic on their own might . Didn't hear of Celtic fans rioting in Seville when they lost the Euefa cup final .

[ScottB]

I think that, once they've done 10 in a row, which seems likely, Celtic's support will get bored if Rangers fail to become a threat, as their fates drop they might 'drift' back towards the pack.

Alternatively, Leicester won the EPL. A team other than Celtic winning the SPL is not impossible by any means. Particularly if they inadvertently have another Delia esque manager next.

As for the league is a whole, down south, for all its publicity, everyone from Everton down aren't exactly miles apart. We aren't the only league with a dominant team / a couple teams well clear of the rest. It's not an issue for me, I don't really care who wins the league, unless it's us!

[mcohibs]

I reckon the only solution is to have play-offs for the title. Play out the league games and the team positioned 1 goes straight to thr final. Teams 2 and 3 play-off to reach the final. Massive superbowl type championship final at the end of it all.

Might be a 'whoosh' moment from me but that is a terrible idea

[WellingtonHibby]

That works brilliantly in Australia and creates a real exiting climax to the season. It's like the play off on steroids.


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I think it's tedious as ****. Maybe because Wellington are never involved..

[jgl07]

Cant see it, Celtic will get 10 in a row, Rodgers has another 4 years on his deal. Not a chance the huns are winning the league while he's there , especially not with the Portuguese Cathro in charge.
Definitely the case.

Rangers are miles behind Celtic in financial terms and short of adopting a 'money no object' approach will come nowhere near Celtic. And they will not be allowed to spend big as no-one will lend them cash and it isn't going to come from the Lying King.

Rangers have enough trouble beating Aberdeen as things stand and but for incompetence by Cathro might have struggled to finish ahead of Hearts.

[Big L]

The level of interest Grand final day creates in Oz is bigger than anything we manage in this country for a sporting event. It really is a great day whoever is in the final. And the play offs for the final are heavily weighted in favour of the team who wins the minor premeirship so there is a benefit in finishing top of the league. It makes for a great few weeks at the end of the season.


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I'm convinced! I'm in favour of any set up that stops the OF winning and gives us and other reams, except the yams, a chance to win a league.

[Keith_M]

But Celtic on their own might . Didn't hear of Celtic fans rioting in Seville when they lost the Euefa cup final .


No, they didn't, but they've upset quite a lot of people in England over the years with their songs praising the virtues of the IRA.


I think a lot of English people are quite shocked when they find out the true nature of much of the Celtc support.

[FilipinoHibs]

No, they didn't, but they've upset quite a lot of people in England over the years with their songs praising the virtues of the IRA.


I think a lot of English people are quite shocked when they find out the true nature of much of the Celtc support.

Yes would you like that lot pished up on Buckie appearing in your cities every other weekend?

[GreenCastle]

These posts appear quite regularly on this forum and my view still stays the same.

England don't need any Scottish teams and won't want it - would mean other teams get less money and would also mean Celtic having to start at the bottom of the English pyramid. Teams like Leeds and Sheffield have been trying for years to get back into the top league - they would never allow it.

Here is the problem - greed and not seeing the bigger picture in Scotland.

Celtic and Sevco are a victim of their own success. They do need competition and each other to generate interest and give the league and games a meaning. You can see the Celtic fans buzzing this season after hammering the Huns so many times this season to win the league.

What needs to happen starts from the people running the game in this county.

Less old firm bias.
16 team league
Play each team x2 a season. - home and away - stadiums would sell out more often.
TV money and voting rights need to be fairer
National stadium - get away from the Celtic and Sevco end nonsense and build a decent stadium to host finals - like Cardiff.

Things like salary caps / split gate receipts are never going to happen.

Rodgers is comfortable here - wins league - gets praise - gets champions league etc - but the key for me is how he performs in the champions league as go out in qualifiers or fail in group stage / Europa league and are they really improving ?

[Eyrie]

I don't see how a sixteen team league would improve matters.

Clubs will have four fewer home games, which means less income. For Hibs, that is compounded by replacing full houses against Hearts, Celtc and Sevco with a few hundred fans from Hamilton, Ross County or Morton. The TV money will also be less as there will be four fewer rounds of fixtures and far fewer attractive games to show (the TV companies prefer Old Firm matches and Edinburgh derbies to Celtc vs Dundee or Hibs vs Partick). All that adds up to a substantial cut in income which will reduce the ability of Scottish clubs to compete with England (Championship/League One) for players so our best youngsters will leave even sooner to stagnate on benches down South rather than be paid less to play in meaningless mid-table games in March.

Some of those problems could be eased with an 18 or even 20 team league to provide more fixtures but I don't believe that would make it more competitive. The best chance for anyone to compete with Celtc is to have a good side that takes six to nine points from them, which gives some leeway for the inevitable slips against weaker teams as Hibs are far more likely to drop points against Morton or Dunfermline that Celtc are. Ideally we'd have four or five teams who are all competitive with each other at the top of the table, which would prevent any one team sustaining any period of dominance.

On that basis I was in favour of the rejected proposal for two leagues of twelve splitting into three leagues of eight, so that the teams you played four times were teams at your own level and the games would all mean something. It would also have made for a more fluid promotion/relegation area which would be better than the current cliff edge and rigged play offs. I don't deny that there were flaws, but any league structure does.

[mcohibs]

A bit tweaking of the timings needed. Is Scottish football just going to go on like this forever? I'd rather see play-offs for the title. The alternative is a forever snorefest as the rich win always or a breakaway league. Take this season as an example... why should Aberdeen, a team who finished 30 points behind first place, deserve to win the title on the back of a one-off game?

Likewise why should Celtic, who have finished top at a canter and are unbeaten domestically, deserve to potentially lose it in such a way? And why on earth would they agree to it?

If Hibs had a fluke season, 'done a Leicester' and won the league we'd be spewing if we had to play a second place team and lost it all.

[Joe6-2]

Take this season as an example... why should Aberdeen, a team who finished 30 points behind first place, deserve to win the title on the back of a one-off game?

Likewise why should Celtic, who have finished top at a canter and are unbeaten domestically, deserve to potentially lose it in such a way? And why on earth would they agree to it?

If Hibs had a fluke season, 'done a Leicester' and won the league we'd be spewing if we had to play a second place team and lost it all.

I think the play offs at all are a total crock of shi*
How anyone came up with the nonsense that a team who finishes second, can lose to a team who are fourth, and lose out. Doesn't make the slightest bit of sense to me

[Ozyhibby]

I think the play offs at all are a total crock of shi*
How anyone came up with the nonsense that a team who finishes second, can lose to a team who are fourth, and lose out. Doesn't make the slightest bit of sense to me

Nor to me the first time I encountered it. It's only when I had experienced over a couple of seasons I realised the benefits. Every season is exciting right till the end, very few meaningless games and a season ending grand final show piece match.
Over there it's the league they are selling first and foremost and the interest they generate in that is by making the competition close every year. They have salary caps, drafts and sanctions for teams who consistently under perform.
It's not perfect but it is a well marketed product.


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[Is It On....]

Celtic will fall eventually.

All goes around in one big circle...I think Rangers will win the league within the next 3 seasons.

Sevco will one day take the next step and win it for the first time but it won't be when Brendan Rodgers is still at Celtic. Tic' supporting friends expect him to stay until they do 10 "in a row" and if he does the gap will be huge. Sevco are currently a very poor side and if the Caveman hadn't been hounded out then I think Hearts would have finished 3rd.