compulsary Voting

[pacoluna]

Should voting be compulsory? I personally think it should be but then again I regard myself as a socialist, the left being the side that would would gain from this. IMO it would provide more legitimacy and eradicate demographic deficit.

[CropleyWasGod]

Should voting be compulsory? I personally think it should be but then again I regard myself as a socialist, the left being the side that would would gain from this. IMO it would provide more legitimacy and eradicate demographic deficit.

Why is that?

IMO, people don't vote because they are apathetic, or they don't like the choices on offer. If they are forced to vote, wouldn't they spoil their papers as a protest? If they are apathetic, wouldn't they close their eyes and pick anyone?

[pacoluna]

Why is that?

IMO, people don't vote because they are apathetic, or they don't like the choices on offer. If they are forced to vote, wouldn't they spoil their papers as a protest? If they are apathetic, wouldn't they close their eyes and pick anyone?

If there was a "none of the above" option it would show that they are not satisfied with any option rather than being accused of apathy towards the process.

[CropleyWasGod]

If there was a "none of the above" option it would show that they are not satisfied with any option rather than being accused of apathy towards the process.

That would work for me. :agree:

One might find, though, that the "nuns" would be the new Government......

[danhibees1875]

If there was a "none of the above" option it would show that they are not satisfied with any option rather than being accused of apathy towards the process.

What about those who are genuinely apathetic or have no interest in politics? I don't see what would be gained from forcing them to do something.

I tend to vote in most things, I didn't vote in the council elections recently though - out of interest, what would have been my hypothetical punishment?

[Killiehibbie]

Should voting be compulsory? I personally think it should be but then again I regard myself as a socialist, the left being the side that would would gain from this. IMO it would provide more legitimacy and eradicate demographic deficit.Why should anybody be forced to choose from a list of not very good options?

[pacoluna]

Why is that?

IMO, people don't vote because they are apathetic, or they don't like the choices on offer. If they are forced to vote, wouldn't they spoil their papers as a protest? If they are apathetic, wouldn't they close their eyes and pick anyone?

Research shows progressive policies in line with what the working class was advocating would gain from this form of voting.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Research shows progressive policies in line with what the working class was advocating would gain from this form of voting.

What research is that?

Id imagine a lot of non voters are anti-immigrant, angry, un educated pro brexit types that want lots of things for free. Just as likely to be ukip than labour, i would guess.

[Hibrandenburg]

They should make voting possible for all British citizens first before forcing those who can to vote.

[pacoluna]

What about those who are genuinely apathetic or have no interest in politics? I don't see what would be gained from forcing them to do something.

I tend to vote in most things, I didn't vote in the council elections recently though - out of interest, what would have been my hypothetical punishment?
Are they apathetic or antipathetic? I suspect the second option in which case they can chose " none of the above" option.

[Pretty Boy]

It's as much someones democratic right not to vote as it is to vote. One I very well may excercise in June.

The argument that not voting bars your from an opiniom on anything for 5 years is nonsense as well before that inevitably gets trotted out.

[danhibees1875]

Are they apathetic or antipathetic? I suspect the second option in which case they can chose " none of the above" option.

In my example, I was talking about apathetic people; I'm sure both exist to varying degrees.

I still don't see what would be gained and would like to know what repercussions there would be.

Although, I've heard from plenty people who agree with your stance. :agree:

[pacoluna]

What research is that?

Id imagine a lot of non voters are anti-immigrant, angry, un educated pro brexit types that want lots of things for free. Just as likely to be ukip than labour, i would guess.
Socialism is about state control of the means of production. In theory it has nothing to do with immigration.In fact, those most likely to be in favour of immigration are those who are on the opposite side of the political spectrum to socialists.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Socialism is about state control of the means of production. In theory it has nothing to do with immigration.In fact, those most likely to be in favour of immigration are those who are on the opposite side of the political spectrum to socialists.

Yeah i know, i read that textbook too.

Ageee - although corbyn doesn't agree! Neither do the SNP. Its quite a pickle...

[Hibernia&Alba]

Whilst I have sympathy for the argument that voting should be a legal responsibility of the citizen, in the same way paying your taxes are, I don't like the idea of forcing people to vote against their will. If somebody doesn't wish to participate, that should be their right. I am all for encouraging everyone to vote, but am not sure about the idea of forcing folk.

[Speedy]

It's as much someones democratic right not to vote as it is to vote. One I very well may excercise in June.

The argument that not voting bars your from an opiniom on anything for 5 years is nonsense as well before that inevitably gets trotted out.

Agree completely.

[pacoluna]

Agree completely.

The whole point in elections is to express your opinion. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't vote then complain about certain policies.

[Pretty Boy]

The whole point in elections is to express your opinion. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't vote then complain about certain policies.

Because no party adequately represents my views. I'd rather not vote than cross a box for the sake of it.

If it's more desireable I go and spoil my paper then I'd happily do that. Same outcome.

[Dalianwanda]

In my view Jonathan Pie pretty much nails it https://www.facebook.com/JonathanPieReporter/ top video of this list...

[Slavers]

No being forced to vote is very North Korea!

[Mr White]

No being forced to vote is very North Korea!

It's very Australian too.

[Slavers]

It's very Australian too.

Im surprised. Where is the freedom in that?

[Mr White]

Im surprised. Where is the freedom in that?

Depends how you define freedom I suppose. There are various obligatory things in most countries, jury duty here for example. I suppose the counter argument is the freedom is in the choice presented but a choice must be made. I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not tbh. I see it's a fairly modest fine of $20 for failure to comply in Oz.

[pacoluna]

Because no party adequately represents my views. I'd rather not vote than cross a box for the sake of it.

If it's more desireable I go and spoil my paper then I'd happily do that. Same outcome.

It would help eradicate this opinion that those who don't vote are apathetic towards the system.

It's an ongoing problem the fact that there is an age deficit when it comes to voting.IMO its not because of apathy it's because younger people seem to be switched off through the negativity and cynicism of election campaigns. Younger voters are more more hopeful I feel than older voters yet election campaigns are always targeted for older generation which favours conservatism.

[Speedy]

The whole point in elections is to express your opinion. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't vote then complain about certain policies.

To give a personal example. I'm on holiday for the general election. I could get a postal vote but I know with a reasonable degree of certainty that my vote wouldn't make a difference, why waste taxpayer cash on a postal vote?

And as Pretty Boy described, an individual may agree/disagree with policies of different parties.

[greenlex]

What research is that?

Id imagine a lot of non voters are anti-immigrant, angry, un educated pro brexit types that want lots of things for free. Just as likely to be ukip than labour, i would guess.
Interesting. Why would you imagine that?

[Holmesdale Hibs]

I don't personally agree with it on the grounds that it's really not that difficult to vote in the first place and anyone who wants to can with minimal effort. I even have a postal vote to save myself going the trouble of going to the station.

If people can't be arsed to vote then they don't care much about participating in democracy so I don't see that as a strong argument either. Making unwilling people vote because they have to would dilute the value of votes cast by people that do care.

Don't know if the nonvoters are more left or right and doesn't matter to me whether I agree with them or not. If someone's dominant political view is 'dont care' then that should be what their vote is worth.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Interesting. Why would you imagine that?

Not sure... possibly lazy stereo-typing on my part, but i think of areas with low turnout tend to be poor, post industrial areas, which tend to be pro-brexit etc etc

I suppose by definition though, we dont knoe what non-voters think because they dont vote!

[pacoluna]

I don't personally agree with it on the grounds that it's really not that difficult to vote in the first place and anyone who wants to can with minimal effort. I even have a postal vote to save myself going the trouble of going to the station.

If people can't be arsed to vote then they don't care much about participating in democracy so I don't see that as a strong argument either. Making unwilling people vote because they have to would dilute the value of votes cast by people that do care.

Don't know if the nonvoters are more left or right and doesn't matter to me whether I agree with them or not. If someone's dominant political view is 'dont care' then that should be what their vote is worth.
your missing my whole point, the reason for those who dont vote isn't purely down to apathy towards the process.

[pacoluna]

I don't personally agree with it on the grounds that it's really not that difficult to vote in the first place and anyone who wants to can with minimal effort. I even have a postal vote to save myself going the trouble of going to the station.

If people can't be arsed to vote then they don't care much about participating in democracy so I don't see that as a strong argument either. Making unwilling people vote because they have to would dilute the value of votes cast by people that do care.

Don't know if the nonvoters are more left or right and doesn't matter to me whether I agree with them or not. If someone's dominant political view is 'dont care' then that should be what their vote is worth.

I disagree, compulsory voting would make the whole process more legitimate.

[pacoluna]

No being forced to vote is very North Korea!
or very barack Obama who agrees with it.

[Beefster]

No. The folk in favour of mandatory voting are generally politicians or those who think their political allegiances will benefit. Other than that, you start making unnecessary criminals of people and probably cause even more apathy/hatred of politics/politicians.

[Beefster]

or very barack Obama who agrees with it.

There are problems with voting that are very specific to the US that may be solved, in part, by mandatory voting. None of which apply to the UK.

[pacoluna]

No. The folk in favour of mandatory voting are generally politicians or those who think their political allegiances will benefit. Other than that, you start making unnecessary criminals of people and probably cause even more apathy/hatred of politics/politicians.
If you look to Australia, Labour opposed it however gained from it.

[pacoluna]

There are problems with voting that are very specific to the US that may be solved, in part, by mandatory voting. None of which apply to the UK.
so a demographic defect in voting with regards to age isn't a problem?

[Beefster]

so a demographic defect in voting with regards to age isn't a problem?

Of course it is but it's not on the same planet as minorities being denied the chance to vote.

It's not going to be solved by making them trudge down to a primary school to vote either. It's up to politicians and their proxies to engage them.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

your missing my whole point, the reason for those who dont vote isn't purely down to apathy towards the process.

You can call it apathy, disengagement, cynicism (probably all true) or whatever you like but those people chose not to vote because they don't care enough to do so. The fact they don't care is reflected on the vote. Don't see what democracy gains by folk that don't care ticking a random box to avoid a fine.

[Speedy]

You can call it apathy, disengagement, cynicism (probably all true) or whatever you like but those people chose not to vote because they don't care enough to do so. The fact they don't care is reflected on the vote. Don't see what democracy gains by folk that don't care ticking a random box to avoid a fine.

That's a bit of an over simplification.

[Slavers]

Some people may not vote as they do not believe in the concept of government like anarchists?

[Holmesdale Hibs]

That's a bit of an over simplification.

There are more complex reasons behind it which have already been mentioned by others in this thread and which I agree with, but anyone who cares enough will vote. Compulsive voting might force people to vote but it's impossible to force people to care and take an interest. If people chose
not to vote, I don't see it as my place or the governments place to tell them they should.

[Speedy]

There are more complex reasons behind it which have already been mentioned by others in this thread and which I agree with, but anyone who cares enough will vote. Compulsive voting might force people to vote but it's impossible to force people to care and take an interest. If people chose
not to vote, I don't see it as my place or the governments place to tell them they should.

Care enough about what?

I agree with the second bit in bold.

[Geo_1875]

I do think it's a good idea in the longer term. However, the Conservative Party plans to introduce photo ID for proof to vote will make that rather difficult for people who can't afford not to vote and pay a fine who also cannot afford the ever increasing cost of acceptable forms of ID (passport or UK drivers licence). Maybe the introduction of new technologies will allow online registration and voting to ease the pain.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

Care enough about what?

I agree with the second bit in bold.

Care enough about anything in a particular parties manifesto, good or bad. Or democracy and politics in general, the community, the economy, future of the county. Could be anything really. I suppose I mean they don't care enough about any of the reasons that make other people chose to vote.

[overdrive]

I do think it's a good idea in the longer term. However, the Conservative Party plans to introduce photo ID for proof to vote will make that rather difficult for people who can't afford not to vote and pay a fine who also cannot afford the ever increasing cost of acceptable forms of ID (passport or UK drivers licence). Maybe the introduction of new technologies will allow online registration and voting to ease the pain.

Does Nothern Ireland have an issue with poor people not voting? They already have a photo ID policy I think. I genuinely don't know the answer by the way.

[Mr White]

Does Nothern Ireland have an issue with poor people not voting? They already have a photo ID policy I think. I genuinely don't know the answer by the way.

I can't answer the first part but I have had to show photo id both times I've voted in NI.

[Mr Grieves]

Does Nothern Ireland have an issue with poor people not voting? They already have a photo ID policy I think. I genuinely don't know the answer by the way.

There was a higher turnout in the last NI assembly election than for either the Scottish parliament or Welsh assembly elections. Whether it would have been even higher if folk didn't need id, who knows.

Turnouts aren't great as it is, I'm against creating any further barriers.

[Speedy]

Care enough about anything in a particular parties manifesto, good or bad. Or democracy and politics in general, the community, the economy, future of the county. Could be anything really. I suppose I mean they don't care enough about any of the reasons that make other people chose to vote.

I wouldn't necessarily align not voting to not caring about those things, particularly the ones in bold.

[snooky]

A bit of an oxymoron surely. A 'free' democratic society making voting compulsory. :confused:

[pacoluna]

A bit of an oxymoron surely. A 'free' democratic society making voting compulsory. :confused:

There are loads of things that are compulsory,tax for example. it's nothing to do with democracy.

[snooky]

There are loads of things that are compulsory,tax for example. it's nothing to do with democracy.

Tax is something everyone needs to pay to sustain democracy of course (unless you have a good accountant). Voting is totally different as far as I'm concerned. I'm getting really fed up to the back teeth of new laws being brought in day by day. Thou shalt not this and thought shalt not that. One day we'll wait up and find we can't do anything.