So-Called 2nd force in Scottish Football

[HFC_NYC]

For decades, teams out with the old firm battled to be the third force. Now that the Huns and jambos are playing on a level field, it really does seem to be open season for the crown of second force. So, are Aberdeen our only true competitors, or should the Huns get a little more respect ?

[Frazerbob]

For decades, teams out with the old firm battled to be the third force. Now that the Huns and jambos are playing on a level field, it really does seem to be open season for the crown of second force. So, are Aberdeen our only true competitors, or should the Huns get a little more respect ?

Having watched that dreadful game, I have no doubt that we should be targeting at least third. St Johnstone will be more difficult opposition than either of those two.

[Keyser Sauzee]

Having watched that dreadful game, I have no doubt that we should be targeting at least third. St Johnstone will be more difficult opposition than either of those two.

At least 3rd??? When u have no idea who either team will sign pre season is a bit of a statement tbh. Yes we should aim high and that game was dreadful, but until we know everyone else's squads for next season then it's early for "at least 3rd" to be thrown about.

[GreenLake]

They are the second farce in Scottish Football

[makaveli1875]

aberdeen are going to lose their best players this summer , i have my doubts they will be able to replace them with the same quality . 2nd is there for the taking

[SanFranHibs]

aberdeen are going to lose their best players this summer , i have my doubts they will be able to replace them with the same quality . 2nd is there for the taking

And Hearts and the Rangers are going to lose their best players so their squads will remain unchanged. :greengrin

Next season is the most excited I have felt since the Mowbray 'era'. Maybe even moreso.

:flag::flag:

[CalgaryHibs]

For decades, teams out with the old firm battled to be the third force. Now that the Huns and jambos are playing on a level field, it really does seem to be open season for the crown of second force. So, are Aberdeen our only true competitors, or should the Huns get a little more respect ?
Herts second force ha! Crap if u as me !:)

[Jack Hackett]

Herts second force ha! Crap if u as me !:)

Behave yourself. We were told by the keekboak loyal that hertz were the only serious challengers to Celtc this season and I fully expect them to get as close next season

[Sir David Gray]

I've said this before but for as long as Aberdeen are the second best team in Scotland, we should be aiming to finish 2nd.

There's absolutely no reason at all why we can't match Aberdeen. The only teams we won't be able to match if they meet their potential are Celtic and Sevco but the latter are certainly beatable as things stand.

[Onion]

Hearts aren't even the 2nd force in Edinburgh. Dons v Huns v Hibs for Euro places next season.

[Stranraer]

Having watched that dreadful game, I have no doubt that we should be targeting at least third. St Johnstone will be more difficult opposition than either of those two.

I think St. Johnstone will be up there again next season and I think we can finish ahead of THEM as long as Cathro is in charge. I predict Aberdeen to finish 2nd.

[MWHIBBIES]

aberdeen are going to lose their best players this summer , i have my doubts they will be able to replace them with the same quality . 2nd is there for the takingWhy are Aberdeen going to lose their best players? Have I missed something?

[lord bunberry]

We should be going for 1st. My money will be going on us doing a Leicester, it's happening I'm telling you.

[Sir David Gray]

We should be going for 1st. My money will be going on us doing a Leicester, it's happening I'm telling you.

I'll do a streak at the first home game of the following season if this happens.

[lord bunberry]

I'll do a streak at the first home game of the following season if this happens.
Remember Gary Linekar had to present match of the day in his pants mate. When it happens I'll join you in the streaking.:greengrin

[Sir David Gray]

Remember Gary Linekar had to present match of the day in his pants mate. When it happens I'll join you in the streaking.:greengrin

:greengrin I have a feeling I won't be the only one, that's why I've agreed to do it.

[Frazerbob]

At least 3rd??? When u have no idea who either team will sign pre season is a bit of a statement tbh. Yes we should aim high and that game was dreadful, but until we know everyone else's squads for next season then it's early for "at least 3rd" to be thrown about.

I said TARGETING at least third. You don't think we should be aiming for third place?

[Big L]

Why are Aberdeen going to lose their best players? Have I missed something?

Pawlett McGinn Jack going Mclean a target for sevco. Hayes wanted by Cardiff, they probably won't sell him.
Their is a rumour they want McGeough.

[superfurryhibby]

I said TARGETING at least third. You don't think we should be aiming for third place?

Totally agree, we should be looking for a high finish. However, we need to remember that it's a big ask. The team with Sauzee, Latapy and Mixu in it finished 6th in their first season back and I don't think we are close to them. Maybe the league is less competative right enough.

[SonOfDavidFrancey]

Lord Bunberry and Sir David Gray getting naked... Sounds like the debauched aristocracy at play.

[lord bunberry]

Lord Bunberry and Sir David Gray getting naked... Sounds like the debauched aristocracy at play.

****ing sure is gadge

[SanFranHibs]

At least 3rd??? When u have no idea who either team will sign pre season is a bit of a statement tbh. Yes we should aim high and that game was dreadful, but until we know everyone else's squads for next season then it's early for "at least 3rd" to be thrown about.

No it's not too early. As neither have made any blockbuster signings, it is exactly what we should be saying.

No-one in the SPL will be breaking the bank and bringing in jaw dropping transfers. We are in as good a position as any team to aim for second place.

If the rationale is we can't aim for a certain position because we do not know the player acquisitions/departures of any team then that must apply to all the teams in the top division, from which must follow that we can't aim to finish higher than Ross County, Dundee, Hearts, St Johnstone, Kilmarnock, Motherwell and possibly even Dundee Utd or Falkirk.

Sorry if I am being naïve but I sure as hell hope we are aiming to finish above those teams.

:flag:

[WeeRussell]

I'm sure we are aiming high for next season and I look forward to seeing what we can do. However, I think we're getting a bit ahead of ourselves writing every other team off and giving ourselves third place, for a team that drew half its league games this season, in the championship.

Hopefully a good transfer window will see us start with a stronger squad than most, but every other team will be hoping for big improvements too.

Would prefer to go quietly about our business and then, emm, win the league!!! (Tongue in cheek smiley)

[Col2]

I just think it's fantastic that as a club, our manager and our players are thinking we should be aiming top 3 or top 4.

Given where we were under Calderwood, Fenton, Butcher we are light yyear ahead on and off the field.

[Keyser Sauzee]

I said TARGETING at least third. You don't think we should be aiming for third place?

Where in my post did I say we shouldn't aim for 3rd, we absolutely should however "at least 3rd" to me says anything below is unacceptable. Without knowing what teams squads will be it's quite presumptions to make that claim.

[Keyser Sauzee]

No it's not too early. As neither have made any blockbuster signings, it is exactly what we should be saying.

No-one in the SPL will be breaking the bank and bringing in jaw dropping transfers. We are in as good a position as any team to aim for second place.

If the rationale is we can't aim for a certain position because we do not know the player acquisitions/departures of any team then that must apply to all the teams in the top division, from which must follow that we can't aim to finish higher than Ross County, Dundee, Hearts, St Johnstone, Kilmarnock, Motherwell and possibly even Dundee Utd or Falkirk.

Sorry if I am being naïve but I sure as hell hope we are aiming to finish above those teams.

:flag:

My point to the original post was that saying "at least 3rd" sounds as if anything below this would be unacceptable, which is too early to claim with knowing who will be signed. Players don't have to be jaw dropping to be good players in the spl, it's full of guys u wouldn't have know before signing up here and won't be on big money, so yes, it's still too early to know.

[where'stheslope]

Its great when the realists all go on holiday!

All the talk of Aberdeen losing their best players and how weak they will become?

What if we lose our best players, where does that leave us?

We are in a great position to do well next year no doubt about it, but beating our chests before we know who is coming or going is strange.

All the big talk should only be done on the park not on a forum, where people actually believe most of the subjects on here.

[SanFranHibs]

My point to the original post was that saying "at least 3rd" sounds as if anything below this would be unacceptable, which is too early to claim with knowing who will be signed. Players don't have to be jaw dropping to be good players in the spl, it's full of guys u wouldn't have know before signing up here and won't be on big money, so yes, it's still too early to know.

You are defeating your own argument and strengthening others.....it's still too early to know...exactly. That is our point. It is too early to know what Hearts, Aberdeen, Rangers, St Johnstone will do so we should be aiming to finishing above them. What is there in Hearts, St Johnstone, Partick that you think we can't overhaul in our first season back?

It's pretty simple....we are unbeaten against Hearts in 7, outplayed them in the replay in February, so if they do not improve their squad considerably why should we not be confident of finishing above them.

Not rock solid logic I know but looking at those squads and the standard of football played until we do know what each does then we should certainly be confident of being above them.

Maybe Hearts policy of trawling eastern Europe will uncover a diamond in the rough and/or, along with the Rangers decide to spend more than they can afford and bring in a few 'ringers'. I doubt it, but as they stand, which is all we can go on, we can compete with them immediately.

I know Hibs are not the finished article but looking at the top division, Celtic are in their own world then there really is nothing to be scared of. Aberdeen, who must be given great credit for cementing 2nd place, are not overly impressive and if we had not gifted them 3 goals it would be us going to Hampden again. Rangers are the unknown in the equation. They should be able to bring in better players but financially are not as well placed as a team with potential 50,000 sellouts should be, as they proved this past season.

It just seems to me that you are predicting other teams are likely to have better signings than us.

Time will tell but not only do I think we should aim high I think we have a manger that is aiming for second place and knowing him, in football terms of course, might even be holding secret dreams of toppling Celtic. But right now, I will take Hibs gunning for Aberdeen.

:flag::flag::flag:

[superfurryhibby]

Its great when the realists all go on holiday!

All the talk of Aberdeen losing their best players and how weak they will become?

What if we lose our best players, where does that leave us?

We are in a great position to do well next year no doubt about it, but beating our chests before we know who is coming or going is strange.

All the big talk should only be done on the park not on a forum, where people actually believe most of the subjects on here.

It's perfectly reasonable to speculate on a forum, why wouldn't you do that when you participate in one?

Your point about Aberdeen losing their best players and highlighting that this may well happen to us is valid though.

They have a squad that has finished 2nd three years in a row, they are tried and tested and at the moment have only lost McGinn, whilst having guys like Rooney, McLean, Reynolds and Hayes under contract. There was a gap in class at the semi final. The sheep were able to hold the ball better and although we did magnificently to get back in the game, it was through sheer grit and determination. I always thought they looked likely to score agai



No it's not too early. As neither have made any blockbuster signings, it is exactly what we should be saying.

No-one in the SPL will be breaking the bank and bringing in jaw dropping transfers. We are in as good a position as any team to aim for second place.

If the rationale is we can't aim for a certain position because we do not know the player acquisitions/departures of any team then that must apply to all the teams in the top division, from which must follow that we can't aim to finish higher than Ross County, Dundee, Hearts, St Johnstone, Kilmarnock, Motherwell and possibly even Dundee Utd or Falkirk.

Sorry if I am being naïve but I sure as hell hope we are aiming to finish above those teams.

:flag:

I hope so too, so does every Hibees fan. In reality it would be a pretty seismic acheivement to finish second, the fact that we will be embarking on a pretty sigificant rebuild says to me that this next season is about consolidating and building on what we have acheived. Top six will be a success in my book.

[HibbyAndy]

You are defeating your own argument and strengthening others.....it's still too early to know...exactly. That is our point. It is too early to know what Hearts, Aberdeen, Rangers, St Johnstone will do so we should be aiming to finishing above them. What is there in Hearts, St Johnstone, Partick that you think we can't overhaul in our first season back?

It's pretty simple....we are unbeaten against Hearts in 7, outplayed them in the replay in February, so if they do not improve their squad considerably why should we not be confident of finishing above them.

Not rock solid logic I know but looking at those squads and the standard of football played until we do know what each does then we should certainly be confident of being above them.

Maybe Hearts policy of trawling eastern Europe will uncover a diamond in the rough and/or, along with the Rangers decide to spend more than they can afford and bring in a few 'ringers'. I doubt it, but as they stand, which is all we can go on, we can compete with them immediately.

I know Hibs are not the finished article but looking at the top division, Celtic are in their own world then there really is nothing to be scared of. Aberdeen, who must be given great credit for cementing 2nd place, are not overly impressive and if we had not gifted them 3 goals it would be us going to Hampden again. Rangers are the unknown in the equation. They should be able to bring in better players but financially are not as well placed as a team with potential 50,000 sellouts should be, as they proved this past season.

It just seems to me that you are predicting other teams are likely to have better signings than us.

Time will tell but not only do I think we should aim high I think we have a manger that is aiming for second place and knowing him, in football terms of course, might even be holding secret dreams of toppling Celtic. But right now, I will take Hibs gunning for Aberdeen.

:flag::flag::flag:




Great post ... I had a conversation with a few guys in work (hibs fans) that said they would take top 6 ...Really ? Is that really our ambition ? .. Take away Celtic rangers aberdeen and hearts are we really accepting fighting it out with Partick thistle and St.johnstone for top 6 is our ambition ? I wan't hibs to be in the top 3 /4 and i bet you Lennon feels exactly the same ..I'm not buying this consolidate nonsense in the first season , I expect Hibernian to be challenging for 2nd spot from the off in August

Top 6 is an achievement meh

[superfurryhibby]

Great post ... I had a conversation with a few guys in work (hibs fans) that said they would take top 6 ...Really ? Is that really our ambition ? .. Take away Celtic rangers aberdeen and hearts are we really accepting fighting it out with Partick thistle and St.johnstone for top 6 is our ambition ? I wan't hibs to be in the top 3 /4 and i bet you Lennon feels exactly the same ..I'm not buying this consolidate nonsense in the first season , I expect Hibernian to be challenging for 2nd spot from the off in August

Top 6 is an achievement meh

Surely our ambition is to win a cup and finish as high as we can, always. Who could disagree with that.

The reality is that a team with Sauzee, Latapy, Lauresn and Zitelli in it finished 6th on our return to the Spl. Whilst the standard might be different, so is the quality of player currently at Hibs.

We can but hope, but I anticipate a mixed season and mid table. In terms of club momentum It would be brilliant if we had a rip roaring season. Success breeds success and in order to maintain and build on the current backing from the fans, the club needs to invest wisely.

[SanFranHibs]

Great post ... I had a conversation with a few guys in work (hibs fans) that said they would take top 6 ...Really ? Is that really our ambition ? .. Take away Celtic rangers aberdeen and hearts are we really accepting fighting it out with Partick thistle and St.johnstone for top 6 is our ambition ? I wan't hibs to be in the top 3 /4 and i bet you Lennon feels exactly the same ..I'm not buying this consolidate nonsense in the first season , I expect Hibernian to be challenging for 2nd spot from the off in August

Top 6 is an achievement meh

I certainly agree with you that we should forget 'consolidating' our position as our aim. That means we would be happy with 10th as we would have consolidated our position in the top flight. No thank you.

Aberdeen.....we're :gun: for you.

:flag::flag:

[brog]

Surely our ambition is to win a cup and finish as high as we can, always. Who could disagree with that.

The reality is that a team with Sauzee, Latapy, Lauresn and Zitelli in it finished 6th on our return to the Spl. Whilst the standard might be different, so is the quality of player currently at Hibs.

We can but hope, but I anticipate a mixed season and mid table. In terms of club momentum It would be brilliant if we had a rip roaring season. Success breeds success and in order to maintain and build on the current backing from the fans, the club needs to invest wisely.

I wouldn't read too much into us finishing 6th 17 years ago. It was a 10 team league, our season ended when we lost the cup semi to Dons & we won 1 of our last 7 league games, ironically against the Dons. Oh & the team formerly known as Rangers had half the English team playing for them & won the league in a canter. That won't be happening next season. I'd be very surprised if NL isn't looking at top 3 at worst.

[Keyser Sauzee]

You are defeating your own argument and strengthening others.....it's still too early to know...exactly. That is our point. It is too early to know what Hearts, Aberdeen, Rangers, St Johnstone will do so we should be aiming to finishing above them. What is there in Hearts, St Johnstone, Partick that you think we can't overhaul in our first season back?

It's pretty simple....we are unbeaten against Hearts in 7, outplayed them in the replay in February, so if they do not improve their squad considerably why should we not be confident of finishing above them.

Not rock solid logic I know but looking at those squads and the standard of football played until we do know what each does then we should certainly be confident of being above them.

Maybe Hearts policy of trawling eastern Europe will uncover a diamond in the rough and/or, along with the Rangers decide to spend more than they can afford and bring in a few 'ringers'. I doubt it, but as they stand, which is all we can go on, we can compete with them immediately.

I know Hibs are not the finished article but looking at the top division, Celtic are in their own world then there really is nothing to be scared of. Aberdeen, who must be given great credit for cementing 2nd place, are not overly impressive and if we had not gifted them 3 goals it would be us going to Hampden again. Rangers are the unknown in the equation. They should be able to bring in better players but financially are not as well placed as a team with potential 50,000 sellouts should be, as they proved this past season.

It just seems to me that you are predicting other teams are likely to have better signings than us.

Time will tell but not only do I think we should aim high I think we have a manger that is aiming for second place and knowing him, in football terms of course, might even be holding secret dreams of toppling Celtic. But right now, I will take Hibs gunning for Aberdeen.

:flag::flag::flag:

I've not read ur whole post as I'm only going to clarify what I said earlier. You are implying that I said we shouldnt aim for 3rd, which isn't true, I only said that the original posters claim of "at least 3rd" to me reads that anything below that is unacceptable, which is hard to say when we don't know other teams squads yet. Ofcourse we should aim for 3rd, 2nd preferably, but it's to early to make calls of "at least 3rd".

[houstonhibbee]

Great post ... I had a conversation with a few guys in work (hibs fans) that said they would take top 6 ...Really ? Is that really our ambition ? .. Take away Celtic rangers aberdeen and hearts are we really accepting fighting it out with Partick thistle and St.johnstone for top 6 is our ambition ? I wan't hibs to be in the top 3 /4 and i bet you Lennon feels exactly the same ..I'm not buying this consolidate nonsense in the first season , I expect Hibernian to be challenging for 2nd spot from the off in August

Top 6 is an achievement meh
It wasn't that long ago there was real concern that if we got promoted we'd come straight back down again. Scottish cup,win has changed that perspective hugely

[Frazerbob]

Where in my post did I say we shouldn't aim for 3rd, we absolutely should however "at least 3rd" to me says anything below is unacceptable. Without knowing what teams squads will be it's quite presumptions to make that claim.

You have misunderstood my post. I wrote (and meant) that we should be targeting at least 3rd. I did not write (or mean) that anything less than third would be unacceptable.

[Keyser Sauzee]

You have misunderstood my post. I wrote (and meant) that we should be targeting at least 3rd. I did not write (or mean) that anything less than third would be unacceptable.

Fair enough

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

It's certainly going to be an interesting season.

Ultimately we need to aim to finish as high as possible. Europe would be a great season but we're coming back in to the top flight after a 3 year absence so let's not get too ahead of ourselves - to just "expect" us to finish above St Johnstone, a team that has finished in the same place for the last 4 years is just daft and imo reeks of the same arrogance we slag Celtic off for. We may have matched the sheep, hearts in cup games but a cup game is entirely different from a league game and over the course of 38 fixtures.

The stupid results against Ayr, Dunfermline etc will be replaced by stupid results against Hamilton, or Kilmarnock such is the inconsistency of Hibernian FC.

A lot obviously depends on our rivals' squads. The sheep - i think may be in the final stage of having a squad capable of finishing 2nd. With the new stadium on the way cutbacks are required. I also believe Mciness will leave at some point next season or at the end of the campaign.

Rangers - Similar to their spell in the championship. Surely they will sort themselves out ahead of next season. A club that has an average attendance and can (somehow) pay the wages they do would at some point i'd expect them to make moves at getting closer to their Glasgow siblings. Still, i hope they get it severely wrong and we paste them home and away next season.

Hearts - It's a weird one because at times they do play some nice football but it leads absolutely nowhere.A club in free-fall which hopefully continues this summer. Wouldn't surprise me if Hartley ends up there next season - which imo would be a good move for them. Hopefully though they continue as is and we dominate the derby for the full season as well

Us - NL seems to be progressing the contract extensions/releasing players with rapid pace so that tells me he knows what he wants and is setting out to get it. Hopefully have the bulk of his team together for the start of pre season so that we can hit the ground running.

We're in a good place right now so i'm confident we can challenge the teams at the top end as opposed to our last few seasons in the top flight. Looking forward to the battles ahead

[NAE NOOKIE]

IMO its impossible to tell how we will get on. We have spent 3 seasons in the championship and the football we will be required to play and compete against will be different from our last 3 league campaigns. The signs are good in so much as we have more than held our own against premiership clubs in the last 3 years, but as so many have pointed out doing that on a consistent level is probably a different challenge from one off games.

Its still pretty unclear what sort of a squad we are going to end up with .... as it stands we have one striker who may or may not leave and a midfield which could end up shorn of its best two players if McGinn is sold and McGeouch doesn't sign a new contract. We have a defence who have spent 3 years standing up to teams with little interest in attacking and who for the most part lack pace and guile in the final third, that wont be the same in the premiership.

For me its too early to be predicting anything ...... I hope for a top 4 finish, but I wont be expecting anything until we have completed our first round of fixtures next season.

[1620]

IMO its impossible to tell how we will get on. We have spent 3 seasons in the championship and the football we will be required to play and compete against will be different from our last 3 league campaigns. The signs are good in so much as we have more than held our own against premiership clubs in the last 3 years, but as so many have pointed out doing that on a consistent level is probably a different challenge from one off games.

Its still pretty unclear what sort of a squad we are going to end up with .... as it stands we have one striker who may or may not leave and a midfield which could end up shorn of its best two players if McGinn is sold and McGeouch doesn't sign a new contract. We have a defence who have spent 3 years standing up to teams with little interest in attacking and who for the most part lack pace and guile in the final third, that wont be the same in the premiership.

For me its too early to be predicting anything ...... I hope for a top 4 finish, but I wont be expecting anything until we have completed our first round of fixtures next season.

I think this is the most realistic post on this subject.
It covers our lack of consistent performances over a season, which we will need to overcome.
It covers the fact that, at this point in time, we have no idea of the make up of our first team squad.
It also covers the fact that until we have played the first round of fixtures we will not know the relative strengths and weaknesses of our opponents, because we don't know their player squads.
It may be a bit of fun to try to predict the outcome for next season but at this time that is all it is.

[houstonhibbee]

I think this is the most realistic post on this subject.
It covers our lack of consistent performances over a season, which we will need to overcome.
It covers the fact that, at this point in time, we have no idea of the make up of our first team squad.
It also covers the fact that until we have played the first round of fixtures we will not know the relative strengths and weaknesses of our opponents, because we don't know their player squads.
It may be a bit of fun to try to predict the outcome for next season but at this time that is all it is.
People's predictions are really what they are stating should be our target and expectations going forward. What actually happens will be determined when, well it actually happens. Don't understand your post really

[KWJ]

Surely our ambition is to win a cup and finish as high as we can, always. Who could disagree with that.

The reality is that a team with Sauzee, Latapy, Lauresn and Zitelli in it finished 6th on our return to the Spl. Whilst the standard might be different, so is the quality of player currently at Hibs.

We can but hope, but I anticipate a mixed season and mid table. In terms of club momentum It would be brilliant if we had a rip roaring season. Success breeds success and in order to maintain and build on the current backing from the fans, the club needs to invest wisely.

Laursen and Zitelli joined the following season when we finished 3rd. Point still taken though, we had a good team.

St. Johnstone are a decent side who always punch above their weight so unless Tommy Wright moves on I'd expect us to be challenging with them and probably Hearts a bit behind Aberdeen and Rangers. I'd love us to do better but that wouldn't be a bad return to the top flight.