What did the St Mirren match tell us

[eastcoasthibby]

Watching the game yesterday albeit was an end if season game I thought brought to the fore quite a few reality checks in respect of our players and their playing levels, and they have been there to see in slightly varying degrees all season. Again I think what was on display by quite a few is there ability to play as first choice players next season.
From our starting 11 in my opinion, I think we need 2 new first choice full backs, bother were played as they usuallybdo and made very little impression in the game, in fact David Gray was poor and I think it showed again he struggles against a half decent wide player ! Lewis works away but just lacks in a few areas. Marvin Bartley was completely lost and woeful, he never won a header, was out of position loads, didn't win tackles, can' t pass the ball, got caught in possession 3-4 times too slow with the ball atnhis feet, can't pass .. He maybe can do a job in certain occasions but his all round game just isn't good enough. Boyle where was he lucky we could only make 3 sub's.. He was hiding, didn't show for the ball, a player who you rarely get more than about 30% impact during a game, too light and doesn't know how to use his pace, there are in my view 3-4 wingers in the championship better than him. Squad with her need 2 new wide payers. JC played today as he has for too many games this season we love him for his goals, but for me the rest of his game normally just isn't good enough, I am on middle ground in terms of wanting him to stay or being happy with any transfer fe of around 2-2.5 million or a deal that equates to that.
I think Shinnie, Ambrose are both worth trying to sign as is Marciano, Holt recently has come onto a game again and is worth a contract. Fyvie plays in a similar position to Bartley, does the battling bit and has a massively more relative skill set than Bartley so I would much rather keep him than Bartley if there is a wage to be freed up, its bartley for me and we can definitely bring in better than him.
So from that yesterday if w were to keep all of those players given they have apparently been offers contracts, I would seriously worry about how we will do in the Premier ..even with the likes of Swanson coming in, wee need another 6 outfield players in that are here as first choices.
All opinions

[Lancs Harp]

Dont agree at all with your assessment of Bartley. Defensively he far better than Fyvie and breaks up opposition attacks far more effectively, I would agree Fyvie is more dynamic when he has the ball but in that role other midfielders are responsible for the dynanism (is that even a word) . Its not as simple as one or the other but for me if it was I think Marv would have a bigger role to take in the top flight. I think they will both be here next season though, Fyvie is a better player than he has shown for alot of this season, been a tough season for him.

[WeeRussell]

I don't think yesterday told us anything at all as it was a meaningless game. Many of our previous performances this season tells us that improvement is needed if we want to get anywhere near our fans'/manager's expectations next season.

[eastcoasthibby]

I don't think yesterday told us anything at all as it was a meaningless game. Many of our previous performances this season tells us that improvement is needed if we want to get anywhere near our fans'/manager's expectations next season.

Improvement definitely is needed but have they got the capacity to improve in them ? I know its about opinions but I think what we saw yesterday is predominantly what we have seen from these players identified in most games, I don't see them improving as people reflect on Keating's for example they reckon Championship is his level .. Suppose what I am saying is I think that's where some of these guys are !!

[MWHIBBIES]

Bartley was hopeless yesterday, so was McGinn. We were much better when Fyvie came on.

Gray was also rubbish and very lucky not to give away a pen but taking him off meant Forster on and he looked slow and cumbersome and should've done better for their goal.

[Borderhibbie76]

Some very over critical comments on here...we weren't great yesterday but come on it was a meaningless end of season game for us against a team fighting for their lives. We don't need wholesale changes at all but the squad can and will be improved.

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[greenlex]

Nothing other than we should be trying to sign Lewis Morgan.

[The Leith Dutch]

Watching the game yesterday albeit was an end if season game I thought brought to the fore quite a few reality checks in respect of our players and their playing levels, and they have been there to see in slightly varying degrees all season. Again I think what was on display by quite a few is there ability to play as first choice players next season.
From our starting 11 in my opinion, I think we need 2 new first choice full backs, bother were played as they usuallybdo and made very little impression in the game, in fact David Gray was poor and I think it showed again he struggles against a half decent wide player ! Lewis works away but just lacks in a few areas. Marvin Bartley was completely lost and woeful, he never won a header, was out of position loads, didn't win tackles, can' t pass the ball, got caught in possession 3-4 times too slow with the ball atnhis feet, can't pass .. He maybe can do a job in certain occasions but his all round game just isn't good enough. Boyle where was he lucky we could only make 3 sub's.. He was hiding, didn't show for the ball, a player who you rarely get more than about 30% impact during a game, too light and doesn't know how to use his pace, there are in my view 3-4 wingers in the championship better than him. Squad with her need 2 new wide payers. JC played today as he has for too many games this season we love him for his goals, but for me the rest of his game normally just isn't good enough, I am on middle ground in terms of wanting him to stay or being happy with any transfer fe of around 2-2.5 million or a deal that equates to that.
I think Shinnie, Ambrose are both worth trying to sign as is Marciano, Holt recently has come onto a game again and is worth a contract. Fyvie plays in a similar position to Bartley, does the battling bit and has a massively more relative skill set than Bartley so I would much rather keep him than Bartley if there is a wage to be freed up, its bartley for me and we can definitely bring in better than him.
So from that yesterday if w were to keep all of those players given they have apparently been offers contracts, I would seriously worry about how we will do in the Premier ..even with the likes of Swanson coming in, wee need another 6 outfield players in that are here as first choices.
All opinions

Like a lot of the posts on here it's a weird approach to the players we have and what they're good at doing.

Bartley is an excellent destructive player and he's superb at breaking up attacks and bullying the opposition midfield.
We would struggle to sign anyone as good at doing that never mind better imo.
Fyvie technically plays in a similar position but is a very different player he has better ball skills but nowhere near the physical presence.

Bartley is the sort of guy I imagine players have nightmares about playing.

Stevenson and Gray should be judged as full backs rather than this weird thing where our goalscoring problems are suddenly all about the quality of Stevenson's crossing. They're not perfect full backs by any means but they're pretty good defensively so it's a long way down the priority for me of things we change.

If we build from the back and start next season with Marciano, Gray, Stevenson, McGregor, Hanlon, Ambrose and Bartley fighting for the defensive 6 positions I think we'll be a very difficult team for anyone in the division to beat.

What I don't see from what we have at the moment is anything like enough goals in the team.

But like you say opinions ;)

[HFCdeb]

We looked a far better football team when Fyvie came on. However, it was a nothing game and I can't really remember much other than feeling seriously happy about it being our last one in that league and enjoying the atmosphere.

***edit** a nothing game for US. Let's not forget St Mirren had it all to play for and they played their hearts out.

[greenlex]

Oh and Jack Ross is a more than decent manager. Wouldn't be disappointed to see him at Hibs one day. Fitba the right way.

[Unseen work]

The league was won and it was the last game of the season at home, like it or not they were in holiday mode

[Dashing Bob S]

Oh and Jack Ross is a more than decent manager. Wouldn't be disappointed to see him at Hibs one day. Fitba the right way.

Agreed and credit also to the St Mirren board for giving him time to change personnel and playing style and having the nerve to stick with him. For that rarity alone they deserve to come up next term. I think Houston, Dundee United and Morton will be desperate in the playoffs as you don't want to be facing St Mirren and Dunfermline next year.

[Sir David Gray]

It told us that our players were on semi holiday mode and that St Mirren aren't a bad side and deserve to stay up.

We do need to strengthen but we knew that before that game and I'm sure Lennon and the board realise that.

[Forza Fred]

I think it showed that we need to keep our feet on the ground when it comes to next season's expectations..

[1van Sprou7e]

I think it showed that we need to keep our feet on the ground when it comes to next season's expectations..

Why does this game show that when we already drew 13 times before in the league

[SMAXXA]

Bartley was poor yesterday but to say he's not good enough is nonsense bet you didn't think that after the hearts games and Aberdeen game? Players are entitled to a bad performance he's had miles more good games than bad.

I actually thought Forster did well when he came on, fault for th goal lay at the centre midfielders think it was fyvie and Mcginn should have taken the guy out before he got beat the box.

I'm more frustrated at Cummings inability to turn when he receives a ball with his back to goal. Looks very rigid at times and would be easy to mark from a defenders perspective.

[Dashing Bob S]

Zero other than we already knew.

[monktonharp]

I was fairly pleased with yesterday's performance, given the fact that our players knew we had won the league.to slate Bartley, is wrong imho. and he can do a job for us next season (he did well at gorgie). like Fyvie on his game but he needs to be "on his game" .the present back four, keep it as it is. we obviously need decent cover, but our current players are all good. Holt Graham and Shinney, well that is another story, and they will be off the books soon Grant Holt has helped us immensely this season and should be recognised for that but he cant be there in the SPL The 2 real stars of the team have got to be JC and SJM. if we were to keep one of the 2, for next season my preference would definitely be McGinn. If we loose him, his former young colleage from St Mirren would be a decent replacement .Stevie Mallin? not quite sure of the name but he is the top player of the buddies although others will have seen him

[Jim44]

I think it showed that we need to keep our feet on the ground when it comes to next season's expectations..


Why does this game show that when we already drew 13 times before in the league

This game only added further evidence to the probability that expectations are a bit too high. I know we will have some fresh faces but the team as it stands will do well to get a top six finish. We won the league with a convincing gap in the end but overall we didn't win it with consistent convincing performances.

[blackpoolhibs]

Saturdays game while not being the most important game we've played for a while, again showed us we lack a real cutting edge up front and from midfield.

We don't create enough good chances, and have relied on Cummings again to dig us out this season with his goals.

Now we are back where we belong, we do need more quality wide and up front.

Next season if we kept the same team, we'd be fine but nowhere near challenging for Europe, but with the right signings i believe we could challenge for that.

What is worrying though, is whether we keep JC and SJM. If JC in particular goes, we'd obviously miss his goals, and whoever we brought in has big boots to fill in terms of goals.

Of course the fee we'd get would be invested in players, who'd hopefully make us stronger all over the park like it did when Scott Allan left, and hopefully gives us more of a cutting edge.

Exciting times ahead. :greengrin

[Brightside]

Saturdays game while not being the most important game we've played for a while, again showed us we lack a real cutting edge up front and from midfield.

We don't create enough good chances, and have relied on Cummings again to dig us out this season with his goals.

Now we are back where we belong, we do need more quality wide and up front.

Next season if we kept the same team, we'd be fine but nowhere near challenging for Europe, but with the right signings i believe we could challenge for that.

What is worrying though, is whether we keep JC and SJM. If JC in particular goes, we'd obviously miss his goals, and whoever we brought in has big boots to fill in terms of goals.

Of course the fee we'd get would be invested in players, who'd hopefully make us stronger all over the park like it did when Scott Allan left, and hopefully gives us more of a cutting edge.

Exciting times ahead. :greengrin
We definitely need a defensive midfielder who can dictate the play. Bartley is a luxury player that simply doesn't bring anything to 90% of games we play. He can't pass, is slow and constantly out of position. Lennon loves him tho so I doubt he'll be away.

[blackpoolhibs]

We definitely need a defensive midfielder who can dictate the play. Bartley is a luxury player that simply doesn't bring anything to 90% of games we play. He can't pass, is slow and constantly out of position. Lennon loves him tho so I doubt he'll be away.

Bartley has given us a few of the best spoiler performances we've seen since eh Matty Jack, in the games against Hearts he was head and shoulders above anyone else on the park at doing his job correctly.

We could need him much more next season, although i dont think he was needed much at all in the championship.

If he is to play next season, he needs to play in that role he played against the gimps and to that standard.

I'd like to see who we bring in and what positions they are before i write him off. We wont have it all our own way next season, and there will be games where he is needed.

[Northernhibee]

Lewis has been amongst our best players this season. He's more than good enough.

[Greenworld]

We need 4 players one of which needs to be deep playmaker midfielder..attack needs addressed other than that the crux of a good team is still there

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[GreenCastle]

Saturdays game while not being the most important game we've played for a while, again showed us we lack a real cutting edge up front and from midfield.

We don't create enough good chances, and have relied on Cummings again to dig us out this season with his goals.

Now we are back where we belong, we do need more quality wide and up front.

Next season if we kept the same team, we'd be fine but nowhere near challenging for Europe, but with the right signings i believe we could challenge for that.

What is worrying though, is whether we keep JC and SJM. If JC in particular goes, we'd obviously miss his goals, and whoever we brought in has big boots to fill in terms of goals.

Of course the fee we'd get would be invested in players, who'd hopefully make us stronger all over the park like it did when Scott Allan left, and hopefully gives us more of a cutting edge.

Exciting times ahead. :greengrin

It was similar to when Leigh left us - we lost a load of goals and never replaced him / the goals.

We have to be careful we don't sell Cummings and not replace him with someone like Liam Boyce.

Aberdeen have Rooney - McGinn - Hayes - front 3 who attack and defend well together.

Hibs issue the last few years is still scoring goals from ALL areas. Look at the league stats - 14 draws! 3 losses! So many of those games we should have killed off.

Love David Gray but Morgan showed his weakness - pace.

Efe strolled it and would love to keep - keep McGregor and Hanlon.

Midfield - McGinn seemed like he didn't want to relegate his brother - hardly wanted to be involved :greengrin

Would keep Bartley - the question is whether Fyfie will stay as not accepting a contract supposedly and Dylan ?

I've been wanting a creative midfielder / someone who can score regular goals for a while - maybe next season it may happen!!

Holt was outstanding and would keep him for experience and leadership alone - but probably a sub to come on if required.

Swanson coming in - right footed - will he play left or right with us? I would also keep Boyle - still young and improving and Shinnie - 2nd best player with Efe Saturday (creative).

[DaveF]

It told me that Lennon has a lot of work to do if he thinks we are 2nd best in the country :-)

Every Hiback was in holiday mode and St Mirren didn't try a leg either until they went behind.

Same old frustrations exist. We got to get in better quality for the new season.

[supermcginn]

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/michael-weir-marvin-bartley-is-my-man-of-the-season-1-4439562 mickey spot on about bartley.

[J-C]

I think saturday showed us that we need proper cover for our 2 fullbacks, if Gray or Stevenson get injured having a centre half cover is not the answer, is Crane good enough?

The other conundrum is Bartley/Fyvie, technically Fyvie is the better player but he lacks defensively and St Mirren's goal proved that as their player waltzed through our midfield at ease with hardly a challenge going in, wouldn't have happened if Bartley was playing. Problem is there are not many very good ball playing defensive minded midfielders knocking around.

Once again the attacking midfield and attack gave us little joy, apart from goals JC is still poor at times with his overall general play, it's better but still needs a lot more improvement. Shinnie is starting to look decent, good runs and finding space but his final efforts are generally poor, his missed sitter is a perfect example. Boyle is a far better prospect when he plays on the left and uses his pace to cut inside and across, when he plays on the right he seems to do that one too many things and loses the ball, not natural for him, I prefer him through the middle or cutting from the left.

We definitely miss Dylan, his vision and drive makes the midfield tick and it's no surprise the performance of the midfield against QOS recently was when we had Dylan/Fyvie/SJM as our midfield. As we all know Dylan's fitness issues have played a major part in not having our best midfield on the pitch regularly, so we need someone of his ilk to come in and keep the same shape and momentum, Stevie Mallan is the man to do that and I'd add Henderson if we can get him as our attacking midfield option.

The players I'd like to see are Moult, Mallan, Henderson and if possible the lad Morgan.

[itslegaltender]

Saturday showed again that we are lacking creativity from midfield. Chances were few and far between. If you sit back and think about the season, its been like that most games.

When (and its often down to his injuryies) we dont have McGeouch in the middle we are devoid of people driving into the box and service to our forwards.

[SirDavidsNapper]

Told me that I'd rather have St Mirren up in the top league with us instead of pish like Hamilton

[Spike Mandela]

Another bloody draw.

[tamig]

We definitely need a defensive midfielder who can dictate the play. Bartley is a luxury player that simply doesn't bring anything to 90% of games we play. He can't pass, is slow and constantly out of position. Lennon loves him tho so I doubt he'll be away.

Don't think he was necessarily required in a lot of the games this season but Bartley has shown time and again over the past two seasons what a key player he can be. Especially in the bigger games. I've seen him tracking back to cover some quick btreakaways this season and been amazed by his speed. In possession he usually lays the ball off swiftly so I'm not sure where some of your negative comments are coming from.

[rodhibs55]

Don't think he was necessarily required in a lot of the games this season but Bartley has shown time and again over the past two seasons what a key player he can be. Especially in the bigger games. I've seen him tracking back to cover some quick btreakaways this season and been amazed by his speed. In possession he usually lays the ball off swiftly so I'm not sure where some of your negative comments are coming from.

Agreed, Bartley has had a great season but not always needed. He will be an excellent player for us in the premier next year, we will need his defensive capabilities more than we did this season.

[MWHIBBIES]

We need 4 players one of which needs to be deep playmaker midfielder..attack needs addressed other than that the crux of a good team is still there

Sent from my SM-G903F using TapatalkWe have Fyvie and McGeouch for this role, one of the last things we need.

[Greenworld]

We have Fyvie and McGeouch for this role, one of the last things we need.
All about opinions I think we need better..Mcgeoch to me me is better slightly further forward

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[ancient hibee]

What the game showed us was that most of the team had gone on their holidays.

[WeeRussell]

Improvement definitely is needed but have they got the capacity to improve in them ? I know its about opinions but I think what we saw yesterday is predominantly what we have seen from these players identified in most games, I don't see them improving as people reflect on Keating's for example they reckon Championship is his level .. Suppose what I am saying is I think that's where some of these guys are !!

Yeah I get what you're saying and apologies if my reply seemed a bit short and snippy (joys of using a phone to respond haha). I actually think the personnel of our squad was decent this season (even for taking up a league) which is why I've been disappointed with a lot of games.

Big fyvie fan myself as well but Bartley has given us some really big games, and could continue to do so next season.

With keatings away, and 2 defenders signed extensions.. it's up front I'm eager to see how we bolster. If we do lose Cummings, I really hope we see a completely new strike force.

The core is there though.. I look forward to a positive summer and pre season for the club.

[The Leith Dutch]

We need 4 players one of which needs to be deep playmaker midfielder..attack needs addressed other than that the crux of a good team is still there

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Never been a fan of some of these terms have to say.
I think some of them smack of the Football Manager approach to watching the game.

What exactly is a deep playmaker midfielder?
I'm presuming it's a midfielder that can pass and doesn't take up particularly advanced positions?

If so, it sounds like if we have some decent central midfielders (which I think we have btw) then they'd be able to pass and have the nous to find the space wherever it is in a game which should cover that need.

Are there any specifics of the role that I'm missing or that you think aren't provided by the current central midfielders we have?