The Cooncil

[-Jonesy-]

Final results for Edinburgh

SNP 19
Conservative 18
Labour 12
Lib Dem 8
Green 6

[Moulin Yarns]

Final results for Edinburgh

SNP 19
Conservative 18
Labour 12
Lib Dem 8
Green 6

What changed from before?

Edit SNP up 1 Labour down 8

[pacoluna]

What changed from before?
Snp Maj instead of Labour.

[-Jonesy-]

What changed from before?

Edit SNP up 1 Labour down 8

Labour 20
Snp 18
Tory 11
Greens 6
Lib dem 3

[marinello59]

Snp Maj instead of Labour.

There is no majority.

[Moulin Yarns]

And Greens gained 2.

[lord bunberry]

We might end up with a coalition of the snp, greens and Lin dems.

[-Jonesy-]

Almost every council in Scotland has returned the same, labour losing out to mostly tories and a little green/lib dem, almost every council has returned no party in overall control.

Some wards in Glasgow elected tories for first time ever

[Colr]

I think the Tories may be picking up votes from traditional Labour voters who have gone over to UKIP in England and SNP in Scotland, have looked to switch their vote this time but decided not to go back to Labour.

[Pretty Boy]

I think the Tories may be picking up votes from traditional Labour voters who have gone over to UKIP in England and SNP in Scotland, have looked to switch their vote this time but decided not to go back to Labour.

A breakdown of the vote will be interesting. From the mid 80s onwards and especially post Poll Tax the SNP gained a lot of support from the traditional Scottish Tory heartlands. A lot of them wanted to protest against that policy but wouldn't vote Labour.

It wouldn't suprise me if a lot of them have switched back to the Tories as they now fear the SNPs ultimate aim is just a bit too close for comfort. Likewise I think a lot of the SNP gains in recent years have come from alienated Labour voters, firstly by Blairism and latterly by an unelectable leader.

There's often a mistaken argument that Scotland is some socialist utopia in waiting but until the Tory collapse after the Poll Tax introduction Scotland regularly returned a healthy number of blue MPs (Feb 74 - 21 seats, Oct 74 - 16, 79 - 22, 83 - 21, 87 - 10, 92 - 11 then 97 - 0). Even after 4 years of Thatcherism Scotland still like it enough to only vote out 1 MP from the incumbent Conservatives. Ironically 'red Tory' Blair actually done better in 'socialist Scotland' than the lefties before him.

[Hibrandenburg]

A breakdown of the vote will be interesting. From the mid 80s onwards and especially post Poll Tax the SNP gained a lot of support from the traditional Scottish Tory heartlands. A lot of them wanted to protest against that policy but wouldn't vote Labour.

It wouldn't suprise me if a lot of them have switched back to the Tories as they now fear the SNPs ultimate aim is just a bit too close for comfort. Likewise I think a lot of the SNP gains in recent years have come from alienated Labour voters, firstly by Blairism and latterly by an unelectable leader.

There's often a mistaken argument that Scotland is some socialist utopia in waiting but until the Tory collapse after the Poll Tax introduction Scotland regularly returned a healthy number of blue MPs (Feb 74 - 21 seats, Oct 74 - 16, 79 - 22, 83 - 21, 87 - 10, 92 - 11 then 97 - 0). Even after 4 years of Thatcherism Scotland still like it enough to only vote out 1 MP from the incumbent Conservatives. Ironically 'red Tory' Blair actually done better in 'socialist Scotland' than the lefties before him.

I think the fact that the SNP have made over 30 gains and the tories many more would refute the theory that it's former Tory voters returning to the party. Imo the only feasible theory is that disgruntled union supporting labour voters have gone over to the darkside.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

A breakdown of the vote will be interesting. From the mid 80s onwards and especially post Poll Tax the SNP gained a lot of support from the traditional Scottish Tory heartlands. A lot of them wanted to protest against that policy but wouldn't vote Labour.

It wouldn't suprise me if a lot of them have switched back to the Tories as they now fear the SNPs ultimate aim is just a bit too close for comfort. Likewise I think a lot of the SNP gains in recent years have come from alienated Labour voters, firstly by Blairism and latterly by an unelectable leader.

There's often a mistaken argument that Scotland is some socialist utopia in waiting but until the Tory collapse after the Poll Tax introduction Scotland regularly returned a healthy number of blue MPs (Feb 74 - 21 seats, Oct 74 - 16, 79 - 22, 83 - 21, 87 - 10, 92 - 11 then 97 - 0). Even after 4 years of Thatcherism Scotland still like it enough to only vote out 1 MP from the incumbent Conservatives. Ironically 'red Tory' Blair actually done better in 'socialist Scotland' than the lefties before him.

I think there will certainly be an element of that. As the SnP become more of a west of scotland lefty party to take the votes of labour, they are potentially losing votes on their right, which is actually their heartlands.

One of the consequences could be that while they will win most of the scottish seats at the GE, they may well lose some of their big hitters in their traditional seats.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I think the fact that the SNP have made over 30 gains and the tories many more would refute the theory that it's former Tory voters returning to the party. Imo the only feasible theory is that disgruntled union supporting labour voters have gone over to the darkside.

It depends on where the gains have come - i believe fhe SnP habe lost control of dundee and perthshire - 2 of their 3 heartlands.

Bit i think there will be an element of what you say too.

[Bishop Hibee]

Leith Tory free 👍🏻

[Hibby Bairn]

Find it bizarre that any Labour voter would switch to Conservative. Some of the Tory policies are so far right of traditional Labour ones.

[Pretty Boy]

It depends on where the gains have come - i believe fhe SnP habe lost control of dundee and perthshire - 2 of their 3 heartlands.

Bit i think there will be an element of what you say too.

I think there are multiple factors at play here and the STV system makes it a bit harder to work out at the moment. It's too simplistic to say 'Labour voters are going Tory' or indeed to argue my earlier point with any conviction either.

Next month will likely give a somewhat clearer picture as FPTP lends itself to clearer analysis. My gut is that for the foreseeable elections across the board in Scotland will be dominated by the independence issue and as such voting will be increasingly along such lines (I accept there's an element of contradiction with my opening paragraph there). Thankfully the constitutional question will be answered within the next half decade one way or another. Hopefully that really will be it for a generation or 10 even if it doesn't go the way I want.

[Mon Dieu4]

I think most people are savvy enough to vote differently in the different elections, in the council and Scottish elections they vote mainly for who they want and think represents their views, in a general election they are more likely to go against that and vote who they think will stand up for Scotland's interests best and make our voice heard more

[Hiber-nation]

Leith Tory free 👍🏻

As a matter of interest do you know how long it's been Tory-free for?

My Uncle was, according to my Mum, the last Tory Councillor from a Leith ward, back in the 60s. I never knew anyone from that side of the family, that's why I'm asking.

[Moulin Yarns]

It depends on where the gains have come - i believe fhe SnP habe lost control of dundee and perthshire - 2 of their 3 heartlands.

Bit i think there will be an element of what you say too.

I can confirm that Perth and Kinross was no overall control before today and remains no overall control.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I can confirm that Perth and Kinross was no overall control before today and remains no overall control.

Yeah sorry it was angus was the other one they lost control of i think.

[Hibrandenburg]

Find it bizarre that any Labour voter would switch to Conservative. Some of the Tory policies are so far right of traditional Labour ones.

I'm not surprised at all. The UK's massive lurch to the right has proven that many so called socialists were in fact social nationalists.

[ronaldo7]

I'm not surprised at all. The UK's massive lurch to the right has proven that many so called socialists were in fact social nationalists.

Not so much the Red flag, but more the Red, white, and Blue flag.:wink:

[Pretty Boy]

I'm not surprised at all. The UK's massive lurch to the right has proven that many so called socialists were in fact social nationalists.

Something they have in common with the SNP then?

[OsloHibs]

I'm not suprised Leith didn't vote Tory as with the many Europeans living in Leith allowed to vote in this election- they're hardly gonna vote for the Brexit party.

[Hibrandenburg]

Something they have in common with the SNP then?

:greengrin

Where has the left vote gone? The SNP, Tories and Labour can't all be right wing parties, that would mean that as things stand Scotland is over 90% right wing.

[Glory Lurker]

In ma heid, Leith's still independent, so the composition of Edinburgh's council isn't the be all and end all. And Edinburgh's trams aren't as good as Leith's. Electricity's the future.

[Pretty Boy]

:greengrin

Where has the left vote gone? The SNP, Tories and Labour can't all be right wing parties, that would mean that as things stand Scotland is over 90% right wing.

It's an interesting question.

Firstly I just don't believe there is as huge a truly left wing vote to be fought over as some would like to believe. There are certainly areas of policy in which people lean towards the left but for many of those same people there are also likely to be areas in which they also have a foot in the right wing camp (taxation and crime being 2 of the higher ranking imo).

Speaking personally I am traditionally a Labour voter. My Grandad was once upon a time a union stalwart and from a young age I was drawn to the party. At 16 I joined up and leaned very much to the left as a student although I became increasingly frustrated by the people I encountered in left wing student politics. For various reasons I grew apart from Labour and gave up my membership about 5 years ago. I think one thing I have in common with a lot of ex Labour voters is a sense of hurt at the conduct of many Labour activists during the last independence campaign. Whilst I understand, and to an extent sympathise, with the viewpoint that the Labour movement is above national boundaries I don't find it easy to stomach the sight of Labour activists, Councillors and MPs exchanging high 5s and hugs with Tories. This was compounded with the hypocrisy many showed by being less than enthusiastic about the Remain campaign, including the leader. It would appear for them the international movement didn't extend beyond the Shetland Islands.

I'm aware that is something of a tangent but I think I am not alone in being an ex Labour voter who considered myself a temporary SNP voter. I voted Yes because I believe in centrist left social democracy and that simple does not exist in the UK as it stands. I felt an independent Scotland would press a reset button and give a clear choice between various positions and because of my own convictions I felt a centre left party would do well. I voted SNP at the last general election as a backlash against the Labour Party for the actions I have highlighted above. I think many naturally inclined Labour voters acted in the same way and if you look at where the SNP made their biggest gains it would suggest a I'm not wide of the mark. I also think the SNPs success at straddling the left/right divide very successfully has seen them Hoover up support from some traditionally left wing voters.

I would also say that whether we like it or not until the constitutional issue is resolved elections in Scotland are going to come down to Yes v No for the foreseeable. As much as it is difficulty for me to accept or understand I think it's clear many traditional Labour voters have voted Tory because they value the union more than their other beliefs, at least in the short term. In many ways I suppose that isn't dissimilar to the mindset of some SNP voters who would happily follow the SNP to the right as long as independence remained on the table. The difference of course being the SNP are an openly nationalist ( social nationalist:greengrin) party and draw much of their support on that basis.

After all that I think the left wing vote is splintered. The SNP have benefited from Labours collapse, and the party have made sure they have taken advatage, the Tories have used the independence question to their advantage and then those like me ponder where to go. For me the most important thing is that the independence question is answered and resolved. Even if it didn't go the way I wanted (which my heart still says is yes) then it would allow the political landscape to move on for an extended period and all parties could focus on using the powers they have (devolved or fully independent) to tackle the many issues facing people in Scotland.

[northstandhibby]

:greengrin

Where has the left vote gone? The SNP, Tories and Labour can't all be right wing parties, that would mean that as things stand Scotland is over 90% right wing.

The establishment has no defining distinctions pal. I've fought many a guid ficht against them but to little avail as truth is a virtue long gone from them. Unfortunately for us its a distant past. They merely shape the truth to what suits. But I will pursue them until my dying day. Is truth a leftist virue or a rightist one, I no longer know the difference.

glory glory

[Colr]

It's an interesting question.

Firstly I just don't believe there is as huge a truly left wing vote to be fought over as some would like to believe. There are certainly areas of policy in which people lean towards the left but for many of those same people there are also likely to be areas in which they also have a foot in the right wing camp (taxation and crime being 2 of the higher ranking imo).

Speaking personally I am traditionally a Labour voter. My Grandad was once upon a time a union stalwart and from a young age I was drawn to the party. At 16 I joined up and leaned very much to the left as a student although I became increasingly frustrated by the people I encountered in left wing student politics. For various reasons I grew apart from Labour and gave up my membership about 5 years ago. I think one thing I have in common with a lot of ex Labour voters is a sense of hurt at the conduct of many Labour activists during the last independence campaign. Whilst I understand, and to an extent sympathise, with the viewpoint that the Labour movement is above national boundaries I don't find it easy to stomach the sight of Labour activists, Councillors and MPs exchanging high 5s and hugs with Tories. This was compounded with the hypocrisy many showed by being less than enthusiastic about the Remain campaign, including the leader. It would appear for them the international movement didn't extend beyond the Shetland Islands.

I'm aware that is something of a tangent but I think I am not alone in being an ex Labour voter who considered myself a temporary SNP voter. I voted Yes because I believe in centrist left social democracy and that simple does not exist in the UK as it stands. I felt an independent Scotland would press a reset button and give a clear choice between various positions and because of my own convictions I felt a centre left party would do well. I voted SNP at the last general election as a backlash against the Labour Party for the actions I have highlighted above. I think many naturally inclined Labour voters acted in the same way and if you look at where the SNP made their biggest gains it would suggest a I'm not wide of the mark. I also think the SNPs success at straddling the left/right divide very successfully has seen them Hoover up support from some traditionally left wing voters.

I would also say that whether we like it or not until the constitutional issue is resolved elections in Scotland are going to come down to Yes v No for the foreseeable. As much as it is difficulty for me to accept or understand I think it's clear many traditional Labour voters have voted Tory because they value the union more than their other beliefs, at least in the short term. In many ways I suppose that isn't dissimilar to the mindset of some SNP voters who would happily follow the SNP to the right as long as independence remained on the table. The difference of course being the SNP are an openly nationalist ( social nationalist:greengrin) party and draw much of their support on that basis.

After all that I think the left wing vote is splintered. The SNP have benefited from Labours collapse, and the party have made sure they have taken advatage, the Tories have used the independence question to their advantage and then those like me ponder where to go. For me the most important thing is that the independence question is answered and resolved. Even if it didn't go the way I wanted (which my heart still says is yes) then it would allow the political landscape to move on for an extended period and all parties could focus on using the powers they have (devolved or fully independent) to tackle the many issues facing people in Scotland.

So, would you say Labour's approach to the independence vote had fractured their support north of the border in a similar way to Brexit in the south.

It seems in both they have failled to identify their own, convincing position for people to get behind and have allowed others to set the agenda.

[Pretty Boy]

So, would you say Labour's approach to the independence vote had fractured their support north of the border in a similar way to Brexit in the south.

It seems in both they have failled to identify their own, convincing position for people to get behind and have allowed others to set the agenda.

In a nutshell.

[Hibby Bairn]

I've just finished reading a very inspiring biography of Clement Atlee. Citizen Clem.

It seems to me that people in the UK are looking for a bit of Atlee type leadership and importantly policies. Not necessarily left or right. Just fair and for the majority. Policies that really matter to people's daily lives.

[Colr]

I've just finished reading a very inspiring biography of Clement Atlee. Citizen Clem.

It seems to me that people in the UK are looking for a bit of Atlee type leadership and importantly policies. Not necessarily left or right. Just fair and for the majority. Policies that really matter to people's daily lives.

And Nye Bevan style vision, I think.

You get bits of it from Labour but its incoherent and usually bludgened home with John McDonnell's unique brand of class hatred which seems to be aimed at 50% of the population.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I've just finished reading a very inspiring biography of Clement Atlee. Citizen Clem.

It seems to me that people in the UK are looking for a bit of Atlee type leadership and importantly policies. Not necessarily left or right. Just fair and for the majority. Policies that really matter to people's daily lives.

Got given this is as a christmas pressie - havent read it yet though but if you say it was good, i might move it up the list

[RIP]

As a Labour Party member I witnessed virtually no voters switching from Labour to Tory. What I did notice at the polling station was an average voter age much higher than the referendum or general elections.

The other parties campaigned on local elections whilst the Tories campaigned almost exclusively on a Unionist ticket. So they would have picked up a lot of first and second votes.

At the Labour conference in Perth I met dozens of people whose constitutional views put them anywhere between devo max and full independence. Yet the leadership since Murphy appear determined to try and fight the Tories for the pro-union t-shirt.

The home rule faction within the Scottish Labour Party needs to win power and lure back those who drifted over to the Scottish Nationalists. Only then can we join with the SNP and Greens to campaign jointly against Tory austerity.

[lord bunberry]

As a Labour Party member I witnessed virtually no voters switching from Labour to Tory. What I did notice at the polling station was an average voter age much higher than the referendum or general elections.

The other parties campaigned on local elections whilst the Tories campaigned almost exclusively on a Unionist ticket. So they would have picked up a lot of first and second votes.

At the Labour conference in Perth I met dozens of people whose constitutional views put them anywhere between devo max and full independence. Yet the leadership since Murphy appear determined to try and fight the Tories for the pro-union t-shirt.

The home rule faction within the Scottish Labour Party needs to win power and lure back those who drifted over to the Scottish Nationalists. Only then can we join with the SNP and Greens to campaign jointly against Tory austerity.

I've been saying this for a couple of years. Independence is the only way back for labour. I think they'd be the main party in a post independence Scotland.

[pacoluna]

As a Labour Party member I witnessed virtually no voters switching from Labour to Tory. What I did notice at the polling station was an average voter age much higher than the referendum or general elections.

The other parties campaigned on local elections whilst the Tories campaigned almost exclusively on a Unionist ticket. So they would have picked up a lot of first and second votes.

At the Labour conference in Perth I met dozens of people whose constitutional views put them anywhere between devo max and full independence. Yet the leadership since Murphy appear determined to try and fight the Tories for the pro-union t-shirt.

The home rule faction within the Scottish Labour Party needs to win power and lure back those who drifted over to the Scottish Nationalists. Only then can we join with the SNP and Greens to campaign jointly against Tory austerity.
There is a demographic democratic deficit and people my age have no one to blame but ourselves, this suits the Tories and it's the reason they don't want 16/17 year olds voting.

[Pretty Boy]

I've been saying this for a couple of years. Independence is the only way back for labour. I think they'd be the main party in a post independence Scotland.

Agreed.

Labour are staring years in the wilderness in Scotland in the face yet the leadership are too stupid to see it. The collapse of the Tory vote in Scotland has proven that it can take, quite literally, decades to even get a toehold again. Since being wiped out in 97 the Tories have managed 1 seat in 2001, 1 seat in 2005, 1 seat in 2010 and 1 seat in 2015). They may well do, slightly, better this year but it's been a long time coming. In the same period Labour had 56 seats in 2001 to the SNPs 6, 41 in 2005 to the SNPs 6, 41 in 2010 to the SNPs 6 and then 1 in 2015 to the SNPs 56. There hasn't been some slow erosion of the Labour vote in Scotland, there was a seismic shift and as of yet the Labour Party have seemingly completely failed to acknowledge it far less deal with it.

[lord bunberry]

Agreed.

Labour are staring years in the wilderness in Scotland in the face yet the leadership are too stupid to see it. The collapse of the Tory vote in Scotland has proven that it can take, quite literally, decades to even get a toehold again. Since being wiped out in 97 the Tories have managed 1 seat in 2001, 1 seat in 2005, 1 seat in 2010 and 1 seat in 2015). They may well do, slightly, better this year but it's been a long time coming. In the same period Labour had 56 seats in 2001 to the SNPs 6, 41 in 2005 to the SNPs 6, 41 in 2010 to the SNPs 6 and then 1 in 2015 to the SNPs 56. There hasn't been some slow erosion of the Labour vote in Scotland, there was a seismic shift and as of yet the Labour Party have seemingly completely failed to acknowledge it far less deal with it.

Their problem seems obvious to me. A large amount of their voters want independence and a large amount of their parliamentary party wants independence, but they're tied to the British Labour Party line.
Does anyone listen to Kezia and think she means what she says? I'd be prepared to bet that she'd support independence if she was given the chance. I realise that not all labour voters or activists feel the same way, but they surely realise the situation they've in right now.

[High-On-Hibs]

Couldn't quite believe what I was hearing from Sky News when they were doing a transfer analysis from the council election outcomes to the possible general election outcome and claiming that 54 seats for the SNP would be a "clear sign" that support for independence was dropping in Scotland. They really have stepped the propaganda machine up a few gears. :rolleyes:

[High-On-Hibs]

Their problem seems obvious to me. A large amount of their voters want independence and a large amount of their parliamentary party wants independence, but they're tied to the British Labour Party line.
Does anyone listen to Kezia and think she means what she says? I'd be prepared to bet that she'd support independence if she was given the chance. I realise that not all labour voters or activists feel the same way, but they surely realise the situation they've in right now.

Kezia Dugdale does support independence. Her sheer lack of passion when it comes to trying to talk up the union is evidence of this. I've seen some rotten politicians over the years, but you can almosts always tell whether they are on the side of the argument they're making or not. A bit like Theresa May and the EU. People who can see through politicians knew she was a hard brexiter the whole time.

[allmodcons]

As a Labour Party member I witnessed virtually no voters switching from Labour to Tory. What I did notice at the polling station was an average voter age much higher than the referendum or general elections.

The other parties campaigned on local elections whilst the Tories campaigned almost exclusively on a Unionist ticket. So they would have picked up a lot of first and second votes.

At the Labour conference in Perth I met dozens of people whose constitutional views put them anywhere between devo max and full independence. Yet the leadership since Murphy appear determined to try and fight the Tories for the pro-union t-shirt.

The home rule faction within the Scottish Labour Party needs to win power and lure back those who drifted over to the Scottish Nationalists. Only then can we join with the SNP and Greens to campaign jointly against Tory austerity.

Nice post. Always good to see a Labour member looking to build bridges with the SNP. Maybe the good showing for the Conservatives in the council elections will let supporters of both Labour and the SNP see who the real enemy are in the forthcoming General Election.

[Colr]

Glasgow Council results been coming for a while. Frank Macabeety was OK as was Charlie Gordon but there was somereal hoods in amogst them.