Local elections - STV explained

[JeMeSouviens]

I was considering trying to write a post on this but here's a handy video so I don't have to. :greengrin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrNejaszSE4

Remember - vote till you boak!

[ronaldo7]

Candidates 1-9 for me today. Tories in 9th place.:greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

Candidates 1-9 for me today. Tories in 9th place.:greengrin

I'm going to put the Tory they want me to vote #2 in 2nd last place and the Tory they want #1 in last. Every little helps. :wink:

[Mantis Toboggan]

I'm going to put the Tory they want me to vote #2 in 2nd last place and the Tory they want #1 in last. Every little helps. :wink:

You don't have to vote for them at all. You can make as few selections as you like.

[Hibs Class]

Candidates 1-9 for me today. Tories in 9th place.:greengrin

Ronaldo7 in "I voted Tory" shock! :faf::faf:

[ronaldo7]

Ronaldo7 in "I voted Tory" shock! :faf::faf:

:greengrin:greengrin:greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

You don't have to vote for them at all. You can make as few selections as you like.

True. But at the point you stop voting, you stop having an influence.
If (for example) you want the Tories to come last, then keep voting until you have them in last place.

[Mantis Toboggan]

True. But at the point you stop voting, you stop having an influence.
If (for example) you want the Tories to come last, then keep voting until you have them in last place.

True. I don't think it would make much difference in practice though.

[Moulin Yarns]

East Ayrshire Council has elected a member of "The Rubbish Party" ahead of Conservative :wink:

[snooky]

East Ayrshire Council has elected a member of "The Rubbish Party" ahead of Conservative :wink:

Same thing is it not? :stirrer:

[pacoluna]

its now irrevocable and undeniable : right of centre British Nationalism v left of centre Scottish nationalism. Tories would attempt to turn scotland into another Nireland

[Slavers]

its now irrevocable and undeniable : right of centre British Nationalism v left of centre Scottish nationalism. This how we will win.

A really divided nation! The future of Scotland - Nicola will be so proud of her only achievement to divide a country that was once famed for it's unity and sense of identity.

[pacoluna]

A really divided nation! The future of Scotland - Nicola will be so proud of her only achievement to divide a country that was once famed for it's unity and sense of identity.
:rolleyes:

[Colr]

A really divided nation! The future of Scotland - Nicola will be so proud of her only achievement to divide a country that was once famed for it's unity and sense of identity.

....and offal-based comestibles!

[marinello59]

its now irrevocable and undeniable : right of centre British Nationalism v left of centre Scottish nationalism. Tories would attempt to turn scotland into another Nireland

No, in Scotland it's Nationalists v Unionists, the old Left v Right battleground is gone.
It was the SNP who made the initial decision to dismiss all opposition as Unionist. It's a term I have said I was uncomfortable with since Yes voters first adopted it. It's allowed the Tories to pick it up and run with it though whilst Labour is in total disarray.

[JeMeSouviens]

A really divided nation! The future of Scotland - Nicola will be so proud of her only achievement to divide a country that was once famed for it's unity and sense of identity.

:confused:

Have you read any Scottish history? Gaels vs Vikings, Royalists vs Covenanters, Jacobites vs Whigs, practically every Highland clan vs every other Highland clan, etc etc Unity has been notable only by its absence!

Anyway, you don't even think Scotland should be a real country.

[Slavers]

:confused:

Have you read any Scottish history? Gaels vs Vikings, Royalists vs Covenanters, Jacobites vs Whigs, practically every Highland clan vs every other Highland clan, etc etc Unity has been notable only by its absence!

Anyway, you don't even think Scotland should be a real country.

Scotland is a country within a union of nations just like the UK is within the EU.

[lord bunberry]

A really divided nation! The future of Scotland - Nicola will be so proud of her only achievement to divide a country that was once famed for it's unity and sense of identity.
I've read some amount of pish on this forum, but that's taking things to a new level.

[JeMeSouviens]

Scotland is a country within a union of nations just like the UK is within the EU.

If you really believe that then frankly you shouldn't be allowed a vote.

[s.a.m]

No, in Scotland it's Nationalists v Unionists, the old Left v Right battleground is gone.
It was the SNP who made the initial decision to dismiss all opposition as Unionist. It's a term I have said I was uncomfortable with since Yes voters first adopted it. It's allowed the Tories to pick it up and run with it though whilst Labour is in total disarray.

I would agree with that (assuming you're talking about people opposed to independence). Of the people I know that voted No, I don't think any would describe themselves as Unionists, and certainly not British Nationalists. I think I would describe their position as StatusQuo-ists*). And I know SNP voters of all political persuasions, in terms of right or left. I think Paco Luna has presented a bit of a false dichotomy there. I think Scotland is a lot more politically diverse than that.







*Nae puns!:greengrin

[Slavers]

If you really believe that then frankly you shouldn't be allowed a vote.

Well my vote counts just the same as yours!

[danhibees1875]

I would agree with that (assuming you're talking about people opposed to independence). Of the people I know that voted No, I don't think any would describe themselves as Unionists, and certainly not British Nationalists. I think I would describe their position as StatusQuo-ists*). And I know SNP voters of all political persuasions, in terms of right or left. I think Paco Luna has presented a bit of a false dichotomy there. I think Scotland is a lot more politically diverse than that.







*Nae puns!:greengrin

Are you not playing down down your pals position's there?



*sorry :greengrin

[s.a.m]

Are you not playing down down your pals position's there?



*sorry :greengrin


:grr:

[JeMeSouviens]

Well my vote counts just the same as yours!

Scary but true.

[Slavers]

I've read some amount of pish on this forum, but that's taking things to a new level.

What are Nicola Sturgeons achievements? I can only think she has divided a nation, that's it.

For all the SNP bluster about standing up to the tories at Westminster, what have they achieved? Nothing at all unless im mistaken?

[Slavers]

Scary but true.

Just digest it a while and let it sink in.

[Mon Dieu4]

What are Nicola Sturgeons achievements? I can only think she has divided a nation, that's it.

For all the SNP bluster about standing up to the tories at Westminster, what have they achieved? Nothing at all unless im mistaken?

Nothing much they can do with 56 seats can they? Don't worry, when we are independent we can make all our own choices

[JeMeSouviens]

Just digest it a while and let it sink in.

I'm still reeling from somebody being stupid (or disingenuous) enough to propose that a region of a unitary state is the same as an independent country tbh. One step at a time.

[lord bunberry]

What are Nicola Sturgeons achievements? I can only think she has divided a nation, that's it.

For all the SNP bluster about standing up to the tories at Westminster, what have they achieved? Nothing at all unless im mistaken?
She hasn't divided a nation! The political divide has always existed in this country. The thing you don't seem to like is that the split in that divide is more even than it once was.

[Hibrandenburg]

The tory plan to win the "no surrender" vote seems to have worked quite well.

[snooky]

A really divided nation! The future of Scotland - Nicola will be so proud of her only achievement to divide a country that was once famed for it's unity and sense of identity.

Totally unfair comment. This country has been on a long steady path of division since the days of Maggie Thatcher. What has divided our nation (be it the UK or Scotland - take your pick) is the void a hopeless Labour Party created. One person cannot divide a nation. It's the difference in the population's political views that does.
BTW, I love the irony in your user name, HT :wink:

[JeMeSouviens]

Summary so far:

SNP - poor
Lab - disaster
Tories - jubilant
Others - meh


****. :boo hoo:

[pacoluna]

The tory plan to win the "no surrender" vote seems to have worked quite well.

voter masochism at its finest.

[DaveF]

Tories gain 6 seats in West Lothian. How depressing.

[cabbageandribs1875]

i'm absolutely astonished that labour voters in scotland could vote for a conservative, by all means give the snp a bloody nose in local elections, but a labour voter voting for a conservative ? why ? labour stalwarts of decades ago must be turning in their graves...sickening

[Moulin Yarns]

i'm absolutely astonished that labour voters in scotland could vote for a conservative, by all means give the snp a bloody nose in local elections, but a labour voter voting for a conservative ? why ? labour stalwarts of decades ago must be turning in their graves...sickening

Former Communist stronghold of Cowdenbeath elected a Tory Councillor. It couldn't get any worse

[makaveli1875]

i'm absolutely astonished that labour voters in scotland could vote for a conservative, by all means give the snp a bloody nose in local elections, but a labour voter voting for a conservative ? why ? labour stalwarts of decades ago must be turning in their graves...sickening

the tories are picking up seats in some of the most deprived areas of glasgow , if i were Sturgeon id be worried by this . No doubt she will be back on TV tomorrow talking up her cast iron mandate and handing even more votes over to the tories for the general election

As bob dylan once said , the times they are a changing

[easty]

i'm absolutely astonished that labour voters in scotland could vote for a conservative, by all means give the snp a bloody nose in local elections, but a labour voter voting for a conservative ? why ? labour stalwarts of decades ago must be turning in their graves...sickening

If they are then they should be doing so while blaming the current Labour party for being an absolute shambles, rather than laying any blame on those switching to the Tories.

[marinello59]

The tory plan to win the "no surrender" vote seems to have worked quite well.

The average No voting Scot are far removed from the 'No surrender' mob and it would be plain wrong to suggest otherwise. The SNP went down the route of portraying all opposition to themselves as Unionist no matter what the topic of discussion was whilst at the same time demonising Labour. No wonder the Tories decided to use it to their advantage, they could only go up.

[SHODAN]

This year will be peak Tory in Scotland. It'll be downhill from there. I hope..

[marinello59]

If they are then they should be doing so while blaming the current Labour party for being an absolute shambles, rather than laying any blame on those switching to the Tories.

Exactly. Voters have always floated, the Labour Party only have themselves to blame.

[marinello59]

This year will be peak Tory in Scotland. It'll be downhill from there. I hope..

Sadly I doubt it.

[pacoluna]

the tories are picking up seats in some of the most deprived areas of glasgow , if i were Sturgeon id be worried by this . No doubt she will be back on TV tomorrow talking up her cast iron mandate and handing even more votes over to the tories for the general election

As bob dylan once said , the times they are a changing

STV in local elections is totally different from FPTP system come June.

SNP have also gained in this election.

[makaveli1875]

STV in local elections is totally different from FPTP system come June.

SNP have also gained in this election.

you've completely missed the point , even the tories that are winning in these areas are shocked . If your not shocked by it id suggest removing your head from the sandpit

[matty_f]

Thoroughly depressing to see the Tories pick up any seats anywhere. Was brought up knowing that they were, essentially, the enemy. Brutal.

[pacoluna]

you've completely missed the point , even the tories that are winning in these areas are shocked . If your not shocked by it id suggest removing your head from the sandpit

What sandpit? Tories are eliminating labour through pro Unionism stance.

The country is divided it is as simple as that, SNP V Tory.

who ever holds power in SCOTGOV has the advantage.

[pacoluna]

will be interesting to see demographic turn out, people my age have only ourselves to blame.

[makaveli1875]

will be interesting to see demographic turn out, people my age have only ourselves to blame.

Those bloody pensioners have shafted you again eh :rolleyes:

[pacoluna]

Those bloody pensioners have shafted you again eh :rolleyes:
we've shafted ourselves.

[Colr]

Those bloody pensioners have shafted you again eh :rolleyes:

Government of the old, by the old, for the old!

[Colr]

Thoroughly depressing to see the Tories pick up any seats anywhere. Was brought up knowing that they were, essentially, the enemy. Brutal.

With Labour in its current state, who else is providing an alternative?

[-Jonesy-]

Anyone who went to vote for the tories for Ruth's "no second referendum" is going to be gutted when we have another referendum

[pacoluna]

SNP now the largest party in Edinburgh, Glasgow & Aberdeen.

Highlands & Falkirk as well.

[pacoluna]

Leith first Edinburgh ward not to elect a Tory Councillor :greengrin.

[-Jonesy-]

Leith first Edinburgh ward not to elect a Tory Councillor :greengrin.

While the chief....

[Hibrandenburg]

The average No voting Scot are far removed from the 'No surrender' mob and it would be plain wrong to suggest otherwise. The SNP went down the route of portraying all opposition to themselves as Unionist no matter what the topic of discussion was whilst at the same time demonising Labour. No wonder the Tories decided to use it to their advantage, they could only go up.

When the poorest areas in Scotland (coincidently also "no surrender" central) that were always Labour vote in Conservative Councils that only had the preservation of the Union card to offer, then it gives a reasonable insight into the motivation of the vote. Or can you point to other Tory policies that might have swayed the poorest areas in Scotland to vote for them?

[lord bunberry]

When the poorest areas in Scotland (coincidently also "no surrender" central) that were always Labour vote in Conservative Councils that only had the preservation of the Union card to offer, then it gives a reasonable insight into the motivation of the vote. Or can you point to other Tory policies that might have swayed the poorest areas in Scotland to vote for them?
It's blatantly obvious why they voted Tory. I'm not saying all no voters are no surrender unionists, but there's no other reason for these people voting Tory. What a horrendous situation to be in.

[yonder1875]

Just seen that one of the most deprived areas in Scotland, Ferguslie Park, have elected a Tory councillor... Am I missing something here? Shameful.

[Slavers]

It's blatantly obvious why they voted Tory. I'm not saying all no voters are no surrender unionists, but there's no other reason for these people voting Tory. What a horrendous situation to be in.

Is this not using the same logic that all people who voted for Brexit were all racists? Its too simple an explanation. Maybe the Tories had the best candidates?

[makaveli1875]

When the poorest areas in Scotland (coincidently also "no surrender" central) that were always Labour vote in Conservative Councils that only had the preservation of the Union card to offer, then it gives a reasonable insight into the motivation of the vote. Or can you point to other Tory policies that might have swayed the poorest areas in Scotland to vote for them?

its nicola sturgeon that swayed the poorest areas of scotland to vote for them

its a straight up choice between Maggie 'strong and stable' May or Nicola 'the cast iron lady' Thatcher

[marinello59]

When the poorest areas in Scotland (coincidently also "no surrender" central) that were always Labour vote in Conservative Councils that only had the preservation of the Union card to offer, then it gives a reasonable insight into the motivation of the vote. Or can you point to other Tory policies that might have swayed the poorest areas in Scotland to vote for them?

I'm not saying that the constitution didn't play a part. I'm saying that portraying all those who voted Tory as 'no surrender types ' is wrong. Unless you think that Aberdeen for example is a hotbed for that type of thing. (It isn't)
Sneering at desperate people who see nothing for them in Labour or the 'progressive' SNP ain't going to win them back.

[Hibrandenburg]

I'm not saying that the constitution didn't play a part. I'm saying that portraying all those who voted Tory as 'no surrender types ' is wrong. Unless you think that Aberdeen for example is a hotbed for that type of thing. (It isn't)
Sneering at desperate people who see nothing for them in Labour or the 'progressive' SNP ain't going to win them back.

And I'm not saying all who voted Tory are raving bigots, but like the Brexit vote you can be damn sure that all the bigots voted tory and that would account for the swing.

[lord bunberry]

Is this not using the same logic that all people who voted for Brexit were all racists? Its too simple an explanation. Maybe the Tories had the best candidates?

No it's not the same. I said that I didn't think all no voters were no surrender unionists. If you think that the most deprived areas in Scotland voted Tory because they had the best candidate you shouldn't be allowed out on your own :greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

its nicola sturgeon that swayed the poorest areas of scotland to vote for them

its a straight up choice between Maggie 'strong and stable' May or Nicola 'the cast iron lady' Thatcher

If the SNP had massive losses to help Tories, then what you say might make some kind of sense. Back in the real world however it's gobbledegook.

[Slavers]

Totally unfair comment. This country has been on a long steady path of division since the days of Maggie Thatcher. What has divided our nation (be it the UK or Scotland - take your pick) is the void a hopeless Labour Party created. One person cannot divide a nation. It's the difference in the population's political views that does.
BTW, I love the irony in your user name, HT :wink:

I don't think its totally unfair but i am willing to accept that she did no solely create the divides but instead has whipped them up, used them for her own political ends and brought them to the front of scottish culture. The us and them mentality that used to be a thing of the past or mostly concentrated in West of Scotland culture.

Now you hear people from the East using the terms unionists as a way of describing their fellow countrymen and bringing that West coast mentality to the East and spreading it throughout Scotland.

This is the SNP legacy of the last 10 years in power, id call it Scotlands lost decade.

If there are any notable other achievement then its yet to be seen. Education, Policing & The Economy i do not see anything that the SNP has implemented that you could call a great success, it seems to be its the opposites, standards dropping everywhere.

So i think it is fair enough to say Nicola's only achievement is to widen the divides between people in Scotland.

[Hibrandenburg]

Is this not using the same logic that all people who voted for Brexit were all racists? Its too simple an explanation. Maybe the Tories had the best candidates?

I dont think many were saying that all who voted for Brexit were racist, what was said and quite rightly is that all the racists voted for Brexit. There's a subtle but important difference.

[easty]

I don't think its totally unfair but i am willing to accept that she did no solely create the divides but instead has whipped them up, used them for her own political ends and brought them to the front of scottish culture. The us and them mentality that used to be a thing of the past or mostly concentrated in West of Scotland culture.

Now you hear people from the East using the terms unionists as a way of describing their fellow countrymen and bringing that West coast mentality to the East and spreading it throughout Scotland.

This is the SNP legacy of the last 10 years in power, id call it Scotlands lost decade.

If there are any notable other achievement then its yet to be seen. Education, Policing & The Economy i do not see anything that the SNP has implemented that you could call a great success, it seems to be its the opposites, standards dropping everywhere.

So i think it is fair enough to say Nicola's only achievement is to widen the divides between people in Scotland.

:faf::faf:

[ronaldo7]

SNP now the largest party in Edinburgh, Glasgow & Aberdeen.

Highlands & Falkirk as well.

SNP biggest party in 15 councils (so far), Biggest party in our four major cities. Tories have done better than they even expected. Labour :rolleyes:

On to the biggy now.

[lord bunberry]

I don't think its totally unfair but i am willing to accept that she did no solely create the divides but instead has whipped them up, used them for her own political ends and brought them to the front of scottish culture. The us and them mentality that used to be a thing of the past or mostly concentrated in West of Scotland culture.

Now you hear people from the East using the terms unionists as a way of describing their fellow countrymen and bringing that West coast mentality to the East and spreading it throughout Scotland.

This is the SNP legacy of the last 10 years in power, id call it Scotlands lost decade.

If there are any notable other achievement then its yet to be seen. Education, Policing & The Economy i do not see anything that the SNP has implemented that you could call a great success, it seems to be its the opposites, standards dropping everywhere.

So i think it is fair enough to say Nicola's only achievement is to widen the divides between people in Scotland.

She's only been in power for 3 years.

[Hibrandenburg]

:faf::faf:

Brought a wee smile to my pus too.

[JimBHibees]

A really divided nation! The future of Scotland - Nicola will be so proud of her only achievement to divide a country that was once famed for it's unity and sense of identity.

Yes because it was her that caused that.:rolleyes: The Tories are playing to the moronic british leaning working class and too many are buying it. Classic divide and conquer has happened for years.

[G B Young]

Yes because it was her that caused that.:rolleyes: The Tories are playing to the moronic british leaning working class and too many are buying it. Classic divide and conquer has happened for years.

That's quite a generalisation.

[JimBHibees]

That's quite a generalisation.

Indeed but not far wrong.

[Pretty Boy]

That's quite a generalisation.

It's pretty much the go to for anyone who doesn't get tye result they want in an election. No, Leave, Tory gains etc. It's all because the people who voted in a certain way 'don't understand' or are 'ignorant'. Of course if Yes, Remain and Labour had done well the same arguments would come from the other side.

If people spent less time dismissing those who don't agree with them as idiots they could perhaps spend more time trying to win them rounds.

[Hibrandenburg]

That's quite a generalisation.

That's quite a twisting of what he meant.

[ronaldo7]

SNP, biggest party in 15 councils throughout Scotland. Biggest party in all four major cities. Not bad.

Tories should be delighted tonight.

Labour on the other hand?

[makaveli1875]

That's quite a twisting of what he meant.

enlighten the moronic working class among us to exactly what he meant ? it looks to me like he's calling working class people morons for having the audacity to vote for a party he doesnt like

[G B Young]

SNP biggest party in 15 councils (so far), Biggest party in our four major cities. Tories have done better than they even expected. Labour :rolleyes:

On to the biggy now.

But with no overall control of any, and they've lost control of the only two where they did have majorities. Effectively a hung country at local level, if such an expression exists.

As you say, it's a big day for the Tories but you have to wonder if Labour are all but finished in Scotland.

As or the biggy, first past the post will give the SNP by far the most seats but if the Tories maintain their current rate of rehabilitation in Scotland it'll be interesting to see how the overall share of the vote pans out.

[lyonhibs]

Scotland is a country within a union of nations just like the UK is within the EU.

On a geo-political level, that is some amount of tosh.

Geo-politically, Scotland isn't a country. Culturally and historically it's certainly distinct enough to identify and be considered as one but that doesn't make it so.

Post independence however......

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

It's pretty much the go to for anyone who doesn't get tye result they want in an election. No, Leave, Tory gains etc. It's all because the people who voted in a certain way 'don't understand' or are 'ignorant'. Of course if Yes, Remain and Labour had done well the same arguments would come from the other side.

If people spent less time dismissing those who don't agree with them as idiots they could perhaps spend more time trying to win them rounds.


Good post mate.

[ronaldo7]

But with no overall control of any, and they've lost control of the only two where they did have majorities. Effectively a hung country at local level, if such an expression exists.

As you say, it's a big day for the Tories but you have to wonder if Labour are all but finished in Scotland.

As or the biggy, first past the post will give the SNP by far the most seats but if the Tories maintain their current rate of rehabilitation in Scotland it'll be interesting to see how the overall share of the vote pans out.

I don't think anybody has overall control of any council. That's STV for you.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

And I'm not saying all who voted Tory are raving bigots, but like the Brexit vote you can be damn sure that all the bigots voted tory and that would account for the swing.

Thats quite a statement to make, amd clearly pish. Your own anti-tory prejudice is shining through.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Some of the posts on this thread are terrible.

I know we all like a good argument, and thats fine.

But the tone of this discussion is awful and beneath this board, where the quality of discussion is normally of a high standard.

If this board is anything to go by, we are certainly becoming a more divided country.

[Slavers]

No it's not the same. I said that I didn't think all no voters were no surrender unionists. If you think that the most deprived areas in Scotland voted Tory because they had the best candidate you shouldn't be allowed out on your own :greengrin

I will say this from the safety of my own home, maybe the working class now view the Tories as the party for the working person and business. They could view the Tories as the best chance of getting a job or keeping their job if they feel it threatened by independence.

[Hibrandenburg]

enlighten the moronic working class among us to exactly what he meant ? it looks to me like he's calling working class people morons for having the audacity to vote for a party he doesnt like

If I was to say "the Jewish working class Hibs fans" it wouldn't mean I'm say all Hibs fans are Jewish, it would simply mean I'm referring to the Jewish working class amongst the Hibs fans. Simple really.

[Hibrandenburg]

Thats quite a statement to make, amd clearly pish. Your own anti-tory prejudice is shining through.

OK enlighten me, who are the Ibrox hoards likely to have voted for in this council elections?

[Slavers]

OK enlighten me, who are the Ibrox hoards likely to have voted for in this council elections?

Scotland does not need this kind of politics from the terraces IMO.

[pacoluna]

Just seen that one of the most deprived areas in Scotland, Ferguslie Park, have elected a Tory councillor... Am I missing something here? Shameful.

Not to worry the union jack will keep them warm on the way to the foodbank.

[Pretty Boy]

Not to worry the union jack will keep them warm on the way to the foodbank.

Mocking the poor. A sure fire way to win them round to your way of thinking.....

[xyz23jc]

Not to worry the union jack will keep them warm on the way to the foodbank.

Take a bow mate. Kwality!:top marks:hilarious

[Pretty Boy]

Take a bow mate. Kwality!:top marks:hilarious

Yep, real quality. Dismissing the poorest people in the country with a petty jibe.

Of course I might question why after 10 years of SNP rule the most deprived area in the country felt the need to elect a Tory. Maybe the populist, but ultimately misguided, council tax freeze that disproportionately benefitted the better off hit Ferguslie Park harder than most places? Maybe the failures in education have see aspirational kids from poorer backgrounds slip through the net?

Why look at the issues when you can joke about no surrender and union jacks though? Poor folk, always good to laugh at their idiocy.

[Hibrandenburg]

Yep, real quality. Dismissing the poorest people in the country with a petty jibe.

Of course I might question why after 10 years of SNP rule the most deprived area in the country felt the need to elect a Tory. Maybe the populist, but ultimately misguided, council tax freeze that disproportionately benefitted the better off hit Ferguslie Park harder than most places? Maybe the failures in education have see aspirational kids from poorer backgrounds slip through the net?

Why look at the issues when you can joke about no surrender and union jacks though? Poor folk, always good to laugh at their idiocy.

Agreed, the joke is in bad taste. However to deny that there's a Unionist aspect to the election results is naive.

[Mr Grieves]

Decent day for the SNP winning 145 seats more than any other party and winning more seats than 2012.

Tories have had an excellent day, based on a campaign about saving the union with local matters as an afterthought.. It'll be interesting to see how their councillors get on, especially in Shettleston and Paisley North.

Poor day for Labour, but it could've been worse. Only 14 seats behind the unstoppable tories.

Greens have done relatively well by picking up a few more seats and the lib dems will be happy with their showing in Edinburgh West.

Unfortunately, there's mugs on both sides of the Indy debate voting for parties in local elections based on where they stand on the constitution.

[Pretty Boy]

Agreed, the joke is in bad taste. However to deny that there's a Unionist aspect to the election results is naive.
In many instances of course, perhaps even in Ferguslie Park.

There's an element of desparation as well though. As there was in the EU referendum. I've said elsewhere that whilst I dislike the Tories they are simply being what they are. My anger is at the centre left, my natural position, for their failures which have seen poorer areas put their faith in the likes of May and Farage. It frankly disgusts me and the sneering laughter of supporters of supposedly progressive, left leaning parties doesn't sit well with me at all.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[mmmmhibby]

It's pretty much the go to for anyone who doesn't get tye result they want in an election. No, Leave, Tory gains etc. It's all because the people who voted in a certain way 'don't understand' or are 'ignorant'. Of course if Yes, Remain and Labour had done well the same arguments would come from the other side.

If people spent less time dismissing those who don't agree with them as idiots they could perhaps spend more time trying to win them rounds.

well said.

[Hibrandenburg]

In many instances of course, perhaps even in Ferguslie Park.

There's an element of desparation as well though. As there was in the EU referendum. I've said elsewhere that whilst I dislike the Tories they are simply being what they are. My anger is at the centre left, my natural position, for their failures which have seen poorer areas put their faith in the likes of May and Farage. It frankly disgusts me and the sneering laughter of supporters of supposedly progressive, left leaning parties doesn't sit well with me at all.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

I too consider myself to be centre left but the centre left have abandoned Scotland and the SNP have filled the vacuum. There's no way back for Scottish Labour unless it's in an independent Scotland. There will be some gloating going on on both sides for the next few days but all parties will be analysing the results and forming their plans for the GE based on that. The tories will see their polarising tactics as a success and I expect we'll see more of the same.

[matty_f]

With Labour in its current state, who else is providing an alternative?

Labour in its current state are still infinitely preferable to the Tories.

I can't for the life of me think how it becomes logical to go "well Labour are in a mess so I'll forgo all my principles and vote for the biggest and most abhorrent shower of ****s (that's the c-word, by the way) going.

[pacoluna]

Mocking the poor. A sure fire way to win them round to your way of thinking.....

They will learn the hard way. Burying their own grave.

[pacoluna]

Labour in its current state are still infinitely preferable to the Tories.

I can't for the life of me think how it becomes logical to go "well Labour are in a mess so I'll forgo all my principles and vote for the biggest and most abhorrent shower of ****s (that's the c-word, by the way) going.

Exactly

[Pretty Boy]

They will learn the hard way.

How very Tory.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

OK enlighten me, who are the Ibrox hoards likely to have voted for in this council elections?

I dont know.

And neither do you.

[pacoluna]

I dont know.

And neither do you.

naive or just having a laugh?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Not to worry the union jack will keep them warm on the way to the foodbank.

This is, imo, where many of you newly coverted SNP zealots let yourselves down.

You are so filled with fervour, so utterly convinced of your own superiority, so myopic that the only good thing for scotland can be what you think, that you completely lose the ability to empathise.

Having to resort to thinly veiled sectarianism, and denigrating anyone who doesnt see the world in the same way as you is poor.

Its exactly this sort of zealotry that is leading us down this path to division.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

naive or just having a laugh?

Youre at it buddy, so im not going to get into a debate with you.

[Betty Boop]

Some of the comments on this thread wow !

[pacoluna]

This is, imo, where many of you newly coverted SNP zealots let yourselves down.

You are so filled with fervour, so utterly convinced of your own superiority, so myopic that the only good thing for scotland can be what you think, that you completely lose the ability to empathise

Having to resort to thinly veiled sectarianism, and denigrating anyone who doesnt see the world in the same way as you is poor.

Its exactly this sort of zealotry that is leading us down this path to division.
Let myself down? My political persuasion and choices don't need approval. Your political jargon regarding my political views are irrelevant. This country is divided and I'm a nationalist call me a bigot all you want. As mentioned before I am not obliged to win over people. What I will do however is highlight the lunacy of labour voters suddenly turn to Tory.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Let myself down? My political persuasion and choices don't need approval. Your political jargon regarding my political views are irrelevant. This country is divided and I'm a nationalist call me a bigot all you want. As mentioned before I am not obliged to win over people.

I dont think i need to add anything to this.

Im out.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Let myself down? My political persuasion and choices don't need approval. Your political jargon regarding my political views are irrelevant. This country is divided and I'm a nationalist call me a bigot all you want. As mentioned before I am not obliged to win over people.


well said :aok:

[G B Young]

I too consider myself to be centre left but the centre left have abandoned Scotland and the SNP have filled the vacuum. There's no way back for Scottish Labour unless it's in an independent Scotland. There will be some gloating going on on both sides for the next few days but all parties will be analysing the results and forming their plans for the GE based on that. The tories will see their polarising tactics as a success and I expect we'll see more of the same.

In what way are the Tories any more 'polarising' than the SNP, whose raison d'etre is independence?

[Beefster]

Just seen that one of the most deprived areas in Scotland, Ferguslie Park, have elected a Tory councillor... Am I missing something here? Shameful.

The folk living in poverty are shameful for voting for something different, seeing as the usual candidates have left them in poverty? Unless you live there, what gives you the right to pontificate on it?

I had a quick skim of this thread and it seems like a mini-rerun of the post-referendum reaction. Denial, shock, insults, blaming everyone else etc etc.

[marinello59]

They will learn the hard way. Burying their own grave.

So you equate poverty with ignorance? You have more in common with the Tories than you think.

[Pretty Boy]

So you equate poverty with ignorance? You have more in common with the Tories than you think.

All whilst getting the idiom in his own post wrong as well.

[Beefster]

OK enlighten me, who are the Ibrox hoards likely to have voted for in this council elections?


Agreed, the joke is in bad taste. However to deny that there's a Unionist aspect to the election results is naive.

IIRC there was a poll a couple of years ago that claimed 30+% of Rangers fans would vote SNP.

[pacoluna]

So you equate poverty with ignorance? You have more in common with the Tories than you think.


They can say goodbye to health visitors who are of the main links between health inequality, who are very much needed in areas like shettlestone,niddrie etc

[Hibrandenburg]

In what way are the Tories any more 'polarising' than the SNP, whose raison d'etre is independence?

Their whole manifesto was based around stopping any independence referendum in local council elections. The SNP will do so in the GE which is the correct platform to do so.

[Beefster]

They can say goodbye to health visitors who are of the main links between health inequality, who are very much needed in areas like shettlestone,niddrie etc

I wasn't aware that councils had anything to do with the NHS. Are you sure that won't be the SNP Government's fault?

[Betty Boop]

They can say goodbye to health visitors who are of the main links between health inequality, who are very much needed in areas like shettlestone,niddrie etc

Health is a devolved matter.

[Hibrandenburg]

IIRC there was a poll a couple of years ago that claimed 30+% of Rangers fans would vote SNP.

When I mention the Ibrox hoards I mean the hoards of Huns, not all Rangers fans are raving bigots but 70% sounds about right.

[G B Young]

Decent day for the SNP winning 145 seats more than any other party and winning more seats than 2012.

Tories have had an excellent day, based on a campaign about saving the union with local matters as an afterthought.. It'll be interesting to see how their councillors get on, especially in Shettleston and Paisley North.

Poor day for Labour, but it could've been worse. Only 14 seats behind the unstoppable tories.

Greens have done relatively well by picking up a few more seats and the lib dems will be happy with their showing in Edinburgh West.

Unfortunately, there's mugs on both sides of the Indy debate voting for parties in local elections based on where they stand on the constitution.

You should apply for a job as a Labour spin doctor with that sort of positivity on a disastrous day for them. They lost over 100 seats in Scotland (including he seismic loss of control of Glasgow City Council) while the Tories gained over 140. Coupled with their overall nationwide loss of nearly 400 seats and the Tories' gain of over 500 I'm struggling to see how it 'could have been worse'.

[cabbageandribs1875]

They can say goodbye to health visitors who are of the main links between health inequality, who are very much needed in areas like shettlestone,niddrie etc



https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/860538518782840832



20-year-old Thomas Kerr, the first Conservative ever elected in Glasgow Shettleston thanks @NicolaSturgeon (https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon) for helping him win


i didn't listen to what he said in the video but the subtitles go on about independence !! for council elections :rolleyes:

[Beefster]

When I mention the Ibrox hoards I mean the hoards of Huns, not all Rangers fans are raving bigots but 70% sounds about right.

I think you're wrong. I think it's the absolute worst of the Rangers support that votes SNP.

(which, in reality, is just as ludicrous an argument as "only the non-bigoted Rangers fans vote SNP")

[Mon Dieu4]

Well I'm pretty chuffed, the three people I voted for all got in, it's not often elections go my way :thumbsup:

[Hibrandenburg]

I think you're wrong. I think it's the absolute worst of the Rangers support that votes SNP.

(which, in reality, is just as ludicrous an argument as "only the non-bigoted Rangers fans vote SNP")

Aye right, but I never said the rest voted SNP, that was you!

[yonder1875]

Labour in its current state are still infinitely preferable to the Tories.

I can't for the life of me think how it becomes logical to go "well Labour are in a mess so I'll forgo all my principles and vote for the biggest and most abhorrent shower of ****s (that's the c-word, by the way) going.

Bang on. Selling their souls to the devils.

[Mr Grieves]

You should apply for a job as a Labour spin doctor with that sort of positivity on a disastrous day for them. They lost over 100 seats in Scotland (including he seismic loss of control of Glasgow City Council) while the Tories gained over 140. Coupled with their overall nationwide loss of nearly 400 seats and the Tories' gain of over 500 I'm struggling to see how it 'could have been worse'.

Ha. I'm thinking there could be an opening, where do I apply?

What I meant is I thought it was going to be a lot worse. As in total annihilation.

[pacoluna]

So you equate poverty with ignorance? You have more in common with the Tories than you think.

I equate austerity with poverty. I equate ignorance with those who voted Tory to spite SNP when there were other less austerity driven party's to vote for. Labour,libdems greens anything but the Tories.

[ronaldo7]

It seems the SNP actually went up in seats, all this after a while in Government can't be all bad eh.:greengrin

431 Councillors getting on with the day job.

Tories 276

Labour 262

And guess who Kezia decided to have a go at today...SNP Baaaadddd

She's not got a ***** clue.

[Glory Lurker]

Just a couple of things, having read this whole thread in a oner (put my medal in the post, please :greengrin)...

Calling folk unionists. The Tories have had the word in their title for decades. They started it...

A divided Scotland? Division along philosophical lines is hee haw compared to division along the lines of wealth, although for some reason that doesn't get the Tories quite so excited for some reason. For some reason.

[Mr Grieves]

Well I'm pretty chuffed, the three people I voted for all got in, it's not often elections go my way :thumbsup:

Same here, the 3 that were re-elected in Leith. All decent councillors that will do their best for Leithers.

[pacoluna]

The Tories made the council elections all about a 2nd indyref and were soundly beaten by SNP. That is the story of today. We won 👍

[ronaldo7]

Health is a devolved matter.

Thank heavens for that.

I wouldn't want to be going to A&E in England, Wales or Norn Irn. :wink:

[makaveli1875]

The Tories made the council elections all about a 2nd indyref and were soundly beaten by SNP. That is the story of today. We won 👍

The story of today is not 1 party has overall control of any council in the country. The SNP started the day controlling 2 and thought they had the biggie - Glasgow in the bag. They lost, Sturgeon will be utterly spewing tonight

[Benny Brazil]

The Tories made the council elections all about a 2nd indyref and were soundly beaten by SNP. That is the story of today. We won 👍

Really? Not my reading of it.

[ronaldo7]

The story of today is not 1 party has overall control of any council in the country. The SNP started the day controlling 2 and thought they had the biggie - Glasgow in the bag. They lost, Sturgeon will be utterly spewing tonight

On the contrary.

The Tories ran this local election on No to Indyref2. They lost by quite a margin (over 150 seats)

I think we should just declare Independence now:greengrin

[pacoluna]

The story of today is not 1 party has overall control of any council in the country. The SNP started the day controlling 2 and thought they had the biggie - Glasgow in the bag. They lost, Sturgeon will be utterly spewing tonight
What party have the most councillors?

[Benny Brazil]

What party have the most councillors?

Who gained the most councillors overall?

[Pretty Boy]

Thank heavens for that.

I wouldn't want to be going to A&E in England, Wales or Norn Irn. :wink:

Maybe the sooper dooper SNP can have a word with my local GP surgery. No non emergency appointment for my pregnant girlfriend for 5 weeks. A real utopia so it is.

[ronaldo7]

Who gained the most councillors overall?

That's like saying St Mirren have won the League because they did well in the second half of the season. :greengrin

[pacoluna]

Who gained the most councillors overall?

One things for sure there's only one loser.
... Labour, wonder who they will blame.

[Benny Brazil]

That's like saying St Mirren have won the League because they did well in the second half of the season. :greengrin

Damn so we're all going along to St Mirren's trophy parade tomorrow?? :greengrin

Think you have to look where each party started before the voting, the Tories and the SNP will both spin it that they are the winners on the day.

[ronaldo7]

Maybe the sooper dooper SNP can have a word with my local GP surgery. No non emergency appointment for my pregnant girlfriend for 5 weeks. A real utopia so it is.


My point was about the relevant A&E's in the Family of nations we inhabit.

As for your personal situation, I'd rather not comment on that thanks.

[ronaldo7]

Damn so we're all going along to St Mirren's trophy parade tomorrow?? :greengrin

Think you have to look where each party started before the voting, the Tories and the SNP will both spin it that they are the winners on the day.

You only need to look at the points on the board at the end of the day.:aok::greengrin

[Benny Brazil]

One things for sure there's only one loser.
... Labour, wonder who they will blame.

Agreed - think it's time Scottish Labour broke away from the main party they are being tarnished by Corbyn and co

[Pretty Boy]

My point was about the relevant A&E's in the Family of nations we inhabit.

As for your personal situation, I'd rather not comment on that thanks.
And my point is that the NHS in Scotland is still a bit of a shambles. Perhaps less of a shambles than England and Wales but that's setting the bar particularly low.

I've seen, thanks to my personal situation, how stretched resources are at both the beginning and end of life in recent times and it's eye opening. That might sit uncomfortably but it's true.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[Mr Grieves]

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/june2017/2017/05/newspapers-talking-tory-surge-scotland-are-missing-point?amp

[pacoluna]

Clearly there's a big backlash against SNP plans for #indyref2 and in large parts of Scotland only Labour can beat the SNP on 8 June (2/2) 🌹

Looks like kezia is taking tactical tips from her pal Ruth leading into june

[ronaldo7]

And my point is that the NHS in Scotland is still a bit of a shambles. Perhaps less of a shambles than England and Wales but that's setting the bar particularly low.

I've seen, thanks to my personal situation, how stretched resources are at both the beginning and end of life in recent times and it's eye opening. That might sit uncomfortably but it's true.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Shambles is a bit strong imo.

I know that the pressures are serious on the NHS, even with the record investment being put into it. As it stands, I'd rather be using the NHS in Scotland rather than the other nations.

[cabbageandribs1875]

The story of today is not 1 party has overall control of any council in the country. The SNP started the day controlling 2 and thought they had the biggie - Glasgow in the bag. They lost, Sturgeon will be utterly spewing tonight

you mean YOUR story ?

and aye the first minister is absolutely spewing right enough


1. the SNP won the election nationally, with the largest amount of councillors and the highest vote share of any party

2. they've won more councillors, with 431 elected compared to 425 in 2012

3. the SNP is now the largest group in 16 of 32 councils

4. the SNP has ended nearly 40 years of labour control in glasgow, becoming the largest party in the city for the first time

5. the SNP are now the largest party in scotland's four main cities , Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Dundee


pure spewing so she is man, hopefully even more spewing after the GE :thumbsup:

[pacoluna]

The story of today is not 1 party has overall control of any council in the country. The SNP started the day controlling 2 and thought they had the biggie - Glasgow in the bag. They lost, Sturgeon will be utterly spewing tonight



For SNP to be in power for a decade and still be making huge gains shows its strength in support

[ronaldo7]

This has been tweeted this evening by the Orange Lodge in Scotland.

"Congratulations to all the Orangemen and Friends elected to their local council today. This organisation is alive and kicking."

Hopefully we'll see the marches limited in numbers in Glasgow, Falkirk, and many other towns and cities throughout Scotland.

[makaveli1875]

you mean YOUR story ?

and aye the first minister is absolutely spewing right enough


1. the SNP won the election nationally, with the largest amount of councillors and the highest vote share of any party

2. they've won more councillors, with 431 elected compared to 425 in 2012

3. the SNP is now the largest group in 16 of 32 councils

4. the SNP has ended nearly 40 years of labour control in glasgow, becoming the largest party in the city for the first time

5. the SNP are now the largest party in scotland's four main cities , Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Dundee


pure spewing so she is man, hopefully even more spewing after the GE :thumbsup:

She looked delighted on telly right enough, over the moon :aok:

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Shambles is a bit strong imo.

I know that the pressures are serious on the NHS, even with the record investment being put into it. As it stands, I'd rather be using the NHS in Scotland rather than the other nations.

Ive heard the figure of £500m underfunded, and in huge need of reform.

One of the major reforms required, and desired by many, is to close down inefficient local hospitals. But the SG dont like that because the SNP got lots of local support for 'saving local hospitals'.

Everyone who knows anything about health policy in Scotland k ow this is a ridiculous situation.

Classic example of politics getting in the way of good policy and running the NHS properly.

Obviously not just the SNP do this, bit health in scotland is firmly an SNP issue.

[ronaldo7]

Ive heard the figure of £500m underfunded, and in huge need of reform.

One of the major reforms required, and desired by many, is to close down inefficient local hospitals. But the SG dont like that because the SNP got lots of local support for 'saving local hospitals'.

Everyone who knows anything about health policy in Scotland k ow this is a ridiculous situation.

Classic example of politics getting in the way of good policy and running the NHS properly.

Who have you heard about the £500m from?

Who is the "everyone" you speak of, that knows anything about health policy in Scotland?

[Hibrandenburg]

Clearly there's a big backlash against SNP plans for #indyref2 and in large parts of Scotland only Labour can beat the SNP on 8 June (2/2) 🌹

Looks like kezia is taking tactical tips from her pal Ruth leading into june

Saw that about five minutes ago and was thinking similar. Kezia looking to grab some of that Unionist vote, pity they hate the Supreme leader because the media have all but labelled him an IRA sympathiser.

[pacoluna]

Saw that about five minutes ago and was thinking similar. Kezia looking to grab some of that Unionist vote, pity they hate the Supreme leader because the media have all but labelled him an IRA sympathiser.

Labour really are up ****s creek.

[Hibrandenburg]

She looked delighted on telly right enough, over the moon :aok:

Just saw her on sky, smiling like a Cheshire cat.

[Hibrandenburg]

This has been tweeted this evening by the Orange Lodge in Scotland.

"Congratulations to all the Orangemen and Friends elected to their local council today. This organisation is alive and kicking."

Hopefully we'll see the marches limited in numbers in Glasgow, Falkirk, and many other towns and cities throughout Scotland.

I'm saying nowt! :wink:

[ronaldo7]

The SNP have ruled out coalitions with the Tories in local government. I wonder how that will go down with the electorate?

18543

[ronaldo7]

Labour really are up ****s creek.

Kezia's appointment of Alan Roden, the former political editor of the Scottish Daily Mail was a masterstroke.

[pacoluna]

Kezia's appointment of Alan Roden, the former political editor of the Scottish Daily Mail was a masterstroke.

SNP’s number one priority at this election was an overall majority in Glasgow. If the SNP fails to do that then it will be a huge failure.

His tweet earlier, He's a master at spinning things if anything.

[ronaldo7]

Watching the BBC today, they've got the SNP losing 7 seats, when in the fact is we've gone up by 6 seats. The BBC paper review just told their viewers that the Tories had taken Glasgow.:greengrin

[bawheid]

Watching the BBC today, they've got the SNP losing 7 seats, when in the fact is we've gone up by 6 seats. The BBC paper review just told their viewers that the Tories had taken Glasgow.:greengrin

They're getting worse day by day. Kuenssberg has given up even trying to appear impartial. Brexit means Brexit and the Beeb has decided that strong and stable Theresa is the only option as we go to war with Europe. Follow on behind now chaps!

[marinello59]

She looked delighted on telly right enough, over the moon :aok:

She looked happy enough to me and so she should. The SNP had another emphatic victory.

[marinello59]

Looking at votes where I live the sitting Lib-Dem made it through on the first round. That wasn't unexpected, he's been very active in the community. The SNP came through easily on the second round with a Tory sneaking through on the seventh round. I wonder just how many of these Tory gains were candidates stumbling over the line.
The constituency was long term Labour before becoming SNP at the last general election. Depending on the turnout I could hold see the SNP increase their majority here. Keep calm, Scotland ain't going Tory for a long time yet. :greengrin

[JimBHibees]

This is, imo, where many of you newly coverted SNP zealots let yourselves down.

You are so filled with fervour, so utterly convinced of your own superiority, so myopic that the only good thing for scotland can be what you think, that you completely lose the ability to empathise.

Having to resort to thinly veiled sectarianism, and denigrating anyone who doesnt see the world in the same way as you is poor.

Its exactly this sort of zealotry that is leading us down this path to division.

If you don't think there was an element of playing the sectarian card in the better together campaign then you are hugely naive. Huge orange march through Edinburgh surprisingly unreported, Rangers having pro British themes at their games etc. If you think any division is caused by one side then you are definitely at it. The press are more than I have ever seen it hugely right wing in this country and a lot of it is down to the utter filth spread by rags like the daily mail.

[G B Young]

Some of the comments on this thread wow !

Indeed. It seems that the 'moronic' working class are to blame for the Tory resurgence, along with the Orange Order.

If these people are so thick, how many of them actually had the gumption to get along to the polling station, bearing in mind turnout or these elections is way down on that for Scottish or General Elections? And as for blaming the Orangemen, how does that explain the Tory gains right across Scotland, the vast majority of which are hardly hotbeds for 1690 enthusiasts?

Like it or not, the party which can take most encouragement from yesterday's Scottish results is the Tories. Their surge in support across the country to cement their position as the second largest party, coupled by the ever worsening decline of Labour, was the major talking point of these elections.

[Hibrandenburg]

Indeed. It seems that the 'moronic' working class are to blame for the Tory resurgence, along with the Orange Order.

If these people are so thick, how many of them actually had the gumption to get along to the polling station, bearing in mind turnout or these elections is way down on that for Scottish or General Elections? And as for blaming the Orangemen, how does that explain the Tory gains right across Scotland, the vast majority of which are hardly hotbeds for 1690 enthusiasts?

Like it or not, the party which can take most encouragement from yesterday's Scottish results is the Tories. Their surge in support across the country to cement their position as the second largest party, coupled by the ever worsening decline of Labour, was the major talking point of these elections.

Which policies won them so many votes in Scotland?

[makaveli1875]

Which policies won them so many votes in Scotland?

I highly doubt people were voting tory based on their policies yesterday. Every vote cast for the tories was done as 2 fingers up to Sturgeon. IMO obviously.

[marinello59]

I highly doubt people were voting tory based on their policies yesterday. Every vote cast for the tories was done as 2 fingers up to Sturgeon. IMO obviously.

You are ignoring the solid Tory vote that has always been there.

[makaveli1875]

You are ignoring the solid Tory vote that has always been there.

The tories won 5 seats in my area yesterday , its the 1st time in my life they've won any seats here. They usually finish a distant last whether its local election , General Election or Scottish Parliament election.

[marinello59]

The tories won 5 seats in my area yesterday , its the 1st time in my life they've won any seats here. They usually finish a distant last whether its local election , General Election or Scottish Parliament election.

Because they have built on their existing vote that has always been there. It's the increase in total share that tells the story so it can't be that every single vote was just to give Sturgeon the V sign.
The SNP will still have the vast majority of MPs after the general election. I hope Sturgeon is bold and says that a vote for the SNP is a vote for another referendum. The

[G B Young]

Which policies won them so many votes in Scotland?

A lot is made by the SNP of the Tory policies which are supposedly so destructive for Scotland. Yet, while they continue to throw austerity, Brexit and more recently the 'rape' clause at them, the Tory support across Scotland continues to rise, not fall.

No question their stance as the anti-independence party stands them in good stead, but for me the the trump card for the Tories in Scotland is Ruth Davidson. She ticks none of the easy target 'posh Tory' stereotypes and it's no coincidence that having left Labour trailing in third at last year's Scottish Elections she's helped the Tories further cement their position as Scotland's second party in the Council Elections. The rise of the SNP may have seemed unthinkable just a few years ago, but the de-toxifying of the Tory brand in Scotland is barely a less noteworthy story.

As the more fervent SNP supporters scratch their heads and claim it's all some sort of con trick, the bottom line is that an increasing number of voters in Scotland actually like the Tories under Davidson and applaud her ability to take on the previously teflon Sturgeon. It's that simple.

[lucky]

Interesting day ahead for Labour as the Scottish Executive meet this morning to decide on policy of council coalitions. I suspect that there will be a split on any deals with the Tories but some senior councilors will be keen on staying power. Overall the election results were bad for Labour but not as bad as some had predicted. The Tory vote is really surprising but they are playing the unionists card well. I was surprised that the SNP didn't take Glasgow and that there vote was down 12%. But hard to criticize when they got 40% of the vote. Next months GE is going to be a bit more interesting now with some real contests

[Pretty Boy]

Interesting day ahead for Labour as the Scottish Executive meet this morning to decide on policy of council coalitions. I suspect that there will be a split on any deals with the Tories but some senior councilors will be keen on staying power. Overall the election results were bad for Labour but not as bad as some had predicted. The Tory vote is really surprising but they are playing the unionists card well. I was surprised that the SNP didn't take Glasgow and that there vote was down 12%. But hard to criticize when they got 40% of the vote. Next months GE is going to be a bit more interesting now with some real contests

Is there any likelihood of coalitions with the SNP or is that off the table?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

If you don't think there was an element of playing the sectarian card in the better together campaign then you are hugely naive. Huge orange march through Edinburgh surprisingly unreported, Rangers having pro British themes at their games etc. If you think any division is caused by one side then you are definitely at it. The press are more than I have ever seen it hugely right wing in this country and a lot of it is down to the utter filth spread by rags like the daily mail.

Im not naive, but i dont think there was anything sectarian about better together. They may have attracted the orange bigots, but i dont for a second think they courted them anymore than the yes campaign courted the face painting, kilt wearing robbie the pict types.

If you give society a binary choice, then by definition it will include huge chunks of people you might not agree with or even like, but share common cause with.

Also i believe thete is a huge orange march through edinburfh every year isnt there? You wont be surprised to know that i dont care much for them, i always preferred the march that went along the coogate.

[JimBHibees]

Kezia's appointment of Alan Roden, the former political editor of the Scottish Daily Mail was a masterstroke.

Dear oh dear absolutely says it all.

[Hibrandenburg]

A lot is made by the SNP of the Tory policies which are supposedly so destructive for Scotland. Yet, while they continue to throw austerity, Brexit and more recently the 'rape' clause at them, the Tory support across Scotland continues to rise, not fall.

No question their stance as the anti-independence party stands them in good stead, but for me the the trump card for the Tories in Scotland is Ruth Davidson. She ticks none of the easy target 'posh Tory' stereotypes and it's no coincidence that having left Labour trailing in third at last year's Scottish Elections she's helped the Tories further cement their position as Scotland's second party in the Council Elections. The rise of the SNP may have seemed unthinkable just a few years ago, but the de-toxifying of the Tory brand in Scotland is barely a less noteworthy story.

As the more fervent SNP supporters scratch their heads and claim it's all some sort of con trick, the bottom line is that an increasing number of voters in Scotland actually like the Tories under Davidson and applaud her ability to take on the previously teflon Sturgeon. It's that simple.

So other than the opposition to independence and Ruth being good at shouting about it none!

[ronaldo7]

They're getting worse day by day. Kuenssberg has given up even trying to appear impartial. Brexit means Brexit and the Beeb has decided that strong and stable Theresa is the only option as we go to war with Europe. Follow on behind now chaps!

New BBC analyst.:greengrin

18544

[JimBHibees]

A lot is made by the SNP of the Tory policies which are supposedly so destructive for Scotland. Yet, while they continue to throw austerity, Brexit and more recently the 'rape' clause at them, the Tory support across Scotland continues to rise, not fall.

No question their stance as the anti-independence party stands them in good stead, but for me the the trump card for the Tories in Scotland is Ruth Davidson. She ticks none of the easy target 'posh Tory' stereotypes and it's no coincidence that having left Labour trailing in third at last year's Scottish Elections she's helped the Tories further cement their position as Scotland's second party in the Council Elections. The rise of the SNP may have seemed unthinkable just a few years ago, but the de-toxifying of the Tory brand in Scotland is barely a less noteworthy story.

As the more fervent SNP supporters scratch their heads and claim it's all some sort of con trick, the bottom line is that an increasing number of voters in Scotland actually like the Tories under Davidson and applaud her ability to take on the previously teflon Sturgeon. It's that simple.

The Tories ran on one policy in this campaign anti independence rather than any attempt at local issues because they know they have a new core group who will vote that way allied to their natural base vote.

[ronaldo7]

Is there any likelihood of coalitions with the SNP or is that off the table?

I'll be interested to see how this one pans out. Labour refused to go into coalition with the SNP in East Lothian in 2012, and went with the Tories instead. I'm sure they coalesced in Edinburgh though.

[Pretty Boy]

I'll be interested to see how this one pans out. Labour refused to go into coalition with the SNP in East Lothian in 2012, and went with the Tories instead. I'm sure they coalesced in Edinburgh though.
Hopefully both parties can agree that working together locally, formally or informally, is preferable to doing a deal with the Tories. Thankfully the SNP have already ruled that out, I hope Labour do likewise.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[makaveli1875]

New BBC analyst.:greengrin

18544

haha, thats a cracker :thumbsup:

[ronaldo7]

The Tories ran on one policy in this campaign anti independence rather than any attempt at local issues because they know they have a new core group who will vote that way allied to their natural base vote.

Make the Local elections about Indyref2 and sending Nicola a message, said, Ruth.

Result

431 - 276

Winning and losing, some interesting numbers in here.

https://wingsoverscotland.com/winning-and-losing/

[JimBHibees]

Hopefully both parties can agree that working together locally, formally or informally, is preferable to doing a deal with the Tories. Thankfully the SNP have already ruled that out, I hope Labour do likewise.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Hope so also.

[ronaldo7]

The story of Ferguslie Park. Tory elected at stage 10 on 13% of the vote.

https://t.co/b2vFbUFpwy

[pacoluna]

if you were a 2014 No voter who was voting for a decent, left-of-centre future, in Britain and Europe, you've some thinking to do, surely.

[Just Alf]

The story of Ferguslie Park. Tory elected at stage 10 on 13% of the vote.

https://t.co/b2vFbUFpwy

Bit at the end puts it all into perspective.

"Here are some statistics for the entire ward.

65% of households in Paisley North West are owner occupied
67% of the population of Paisley North West are employed, self employed or full time students
5.1% of the population of Paisley North West are unemployed
23% of the population of Paisley North West are pensioners
4.9% are housewives/husbands/carers or not in the labour force

In a local election poll with a low turnout, there is a disproportionately high turnout from pensioners and from the wealthier districts. Very few indeed of those measly 657 Tory votes came from the Ferguslie Park estate.

The real story is that in a ward with 65% owner-occupiers and 67% economically active, the Tories could still only manage a measly 13% of the vote. That the large majority of £350,000 owner occupiers do not vote Tory. The real story is that the SNP took 44% to the Tories 13%. But no, the march of Ruth’s 13%ers has apparently changed the course of history. As Tom Robinson once sang, “It’s there in the papers, must be the truth”."

[Benny Brazil]

Make the Local elections about Indyref2 and sending Nicola a message, said, Ruth.

Result

431 - 276

Winning and losing, some interesting numbers in here.

https://wingsoverscotland.com/winning-and-losing/

Another link to Wings over Scotland:faf:

[G B Young]

Make the Local elections about Indyref2 and sending Nicola a message, said, Ruth.

Result

431 - 276

Winning and losing, some interesting numbers in here.

https://wingsoverscotland.com/winning-and-losing/

Last time round the SNP won 425 seats and the Tories 115. Steady as she goes for the SNP this time but there's only one party with real momentum.

If viewing this year's results through an independence lens it was pro independence parties 450 seats, pro union parties 601.

One can play with the figures any way it suits but they all confirm Scotland as ever more divided politically.

[ronaldo7]

Another link to Wings over Scotland:faf:

Pray tell, what in the link is wrong?

It's been about 5 months since I used that link so don't let it bother you. Now I know you like them, I'll endeavour to link to that site more often.:aok:

[ronaldo7]

Last time round the SNP won 425 seats and the Tories 115. Steady as she goes for the SNP this time but there's only one party with real momentum.

If viewing this year's results through an independence lens it was pro independence parties 450 seats, pro union parties 601.

One can play with the figures any way it suits but they all confirm Scotland as ever more divided politically.

I'd agree.

Just wait until the YES side start campaigning though.:aok:

[Moulin Yarns]

Last time round the SNP won 425 seats and the Tories 115. Steady as she goes for the SNP this time but there's only one party with real momentum.

If viewing this year's results through an independence lens it was pro independence parties 450 seats, pro union parties 601.

One can play with the figures any way it suits but they all confirm Scotland as ever more divided politically.



http://www.peoplesmomentum.com/

[G B Young]

Bit at the end puts it all into perspective.

"Here are some statistics for the entire ward.

65% of households in Paisley North West are owner occupied
67% of the population of Paisley North West are employed, self employed or full time students
5.1% of the population of Paisley North West are unemployed
23% of the population of Paisley North West are pensioners
4.9% are housewives/husbands/carers or not in the labour force

In a local election poll with a low turnout, there is a disproportionately high turnout from pensioners and from the wealthier districts. Very few indeed of those measly 657 Tory votes came from the Ferguslie Park estate.

The real story is that in a ward with 65% owner-occupiers and 67% economically active, the Tories could still only manage a measly 13% of the vote. That the large majority of £350,000 owner occupiers do not vote Tory. The real story is that the SNP took 44% to the Tories 13%. But no, the march of Ruth’s 13%ers has apparently changed the course of history. As Tom Robinson once sang, “It’s there in the papers, must be the truth”."

If anyone could be bothered nit picking their way through all the seats where the SNP didn't win the first choice vote they'd be accused of petty sour grapes which is all this is. No amount of revisionist claptrap will make the result go away. It happened. Accept it.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I'd agree.

Just wait until the YES side start campaigning though.:aok:

Theyve never stopped!

You certainly never stop.

[lucky]

I believe that Labour councilors must put forward a work plan regardless who the coalition is with. But I hope that we don't do deals with the Tories. But there is a lot of personal resentment between SNP and Labour at local level after years of fighting each other. As I've said some tough choices to be made

[Just Alf]

If anyone could be bothered nit picking their way through all the seats where the SNP didn't win the first choice vote they'd be accused of petty sour grapes which is all this is. No amount of revisionist claptrap will make the result go away. It happened. Accept it.

If the press weren't highlighting it as a "resurgent" Conservative vote, you'd have a point.

[Just Alf]

I believe that Labour councilors must put forward a work plan regardless who the coalition is with. But I hope that we don't do deals with the Tories. But there is a lot of personal resentment between SNP and Labour at local level after years of fighting each other. As I've said some tough choices to be made

Totally agree, we're all in a difficult place.

Personally my votes were spread labour then Green, and then SNP, then I stopped. So I guess some form of coalition (or at least working together as the occasion arises) would more closely represent what I wanted Local government to look like.

[PeeJay]

Watching the BBC today, they've got the SNP losing 7 seats, when in the fact is we've gone up by 6 seats. The BBC paper review just told their viewers that the Tories had taken Glasgow.:greengrin

Seems strange that the normally reliable Beeb (IMO) can make such an obvious blunder - do you think it has anything to do with the statement below, posted on the BBC site? Bit confusing really ... :confused:

"Boundary changes have occurred in many councils in Scotland. Seat change is based on notional 2012 results, which estimate what the results would have been then if the new boundaries had been in place."

[pacoluna]

If the press weren't highlighting it as a "resurgent" Conservative vote, you'd have a point.

certainly not resurgent because of their policies. We all know why they gained votes and who they gained them from.

[Just Alf]

certainly not resurgent because of their policies. We all know why they gained votes and who they gained them from.
Indeed 100% with you on that one.

Anyways... Pub time! GGTTH!


Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[ronaldo7]

Theyve never stopped!

You certainly never stop.

I'm not a part of the yes movement (yet), they disbanded. 😃

[Hibrandenburg]

If anyone could be bothered nit picking their way through all the seats where the SNP didn't win the first choice vote they'd be accused of petty sour grapes which is all this is. No amount of revisionist claptrap will make the result go away. It happened. Accept it.

I think we accept it, in fact I'd go as far to say we're happy about it.

[makaveli1875]

I'm not a part of the yes movement (yet), they disbanded. 😃

someone forgot to tell Sturgeon in that case :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

someone forgot to tell Sturgeon in that case :greengrin

You are confusing a political party with a political campaign


http://www.yesscotland.net/

[lucky]

I've been told that labour will not got into coalition with any party that will deliver further austerity. TBF I'm not sure what that actually means as in my opinion both the SNP & Tories have delivered cuts and austerity

[Moulin Yarns]

I've been told that labour will not got into coalition with any party that will deliver further austerity. TBF I'm not sure what that actually means as in my opinion both the SNP & Tories have delivered cuts and austerity

Has to be the Greens.

[danhibees1875]

I've been told that labour will not got into coalition with any party that will deliver further austerity. TBF I'm not sure what that actually means as in my opinion both the SNP & Tories have delivered cuts and austerity

So they will go into coalition with greens in councils where they can (or will try to), and otherwise there will be no coalitions and there will be minority ran councils? (Just guessing)

[ronaldo7]

Seems strange that the normally reliable Beeb (IMO) can make such an obvious blunder - do you think it has anything to do with the statement below, posted on the BBC site? Bit confusing really ... :confused:

"Boundary changes have occurred in many councils in Scotland. Seat change is based on notional 2012 results, which estimate what the results would have been then if the new boundaries had been in place."

Don't know mate. I only know that when I went to school 431 was 6 more than 425.

The BBC have been made aware of the figures by lots of people, and they still kept repeating their numbers. Maybe it's just down to laziness.:dunno:

[ronaldo7]

I've been told that labour will not got into coalition with any party that will deliver further austerity. TBF I'm not sure what that actually means as in my opinion both the SNP & Tories have delivered cuts and austerity

It looks like most councils will be minority driven. Difficult to get budgets passed.

[Moulin Yarns]

It looks like most councils will be minority driven. Difficult to get budgets passed.

A bit like holyrood where the minority SNP government needed to offer concession to the Greens to get the budget through.

[ronaldo7]

A bit like holyrood where the minority SNP government needed to offer concession to the Greens to get the budget through.

They didn't offer concessions, the Greens won them.:greengrin

[pacoluna]

I take it those voters who are swinging to Tory won't be supporting the SNP when they use their devolved powers to mitigate austerity driven policies...

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I take it those voters who are swinging to Tory won't be supporting the SNP when they use their devolved powers to mitigate austerity driven policies...

It depends on the issue surely.

Luckily, the scottish electorate seem to understand, and to have embraced that politics is more nuanced than saying 'i support x, i will always support x'.

Obviously the zealots struggle with this concept.

[Hibrandenburg]

It depends on the issue surely.

Luckily, the scottish electorate seem to understand, and to have embraced that politics is more nuanced than saying 'i support x, i will always support x'.

Obviously the zealots struggle with this concept.

Name a zealot and the party he's zealous about in that respect. I can only think of 2 on here.

[G B Young]

If the press weren't highlighting it as a "resurgent" Conservative vote, you'd have a point.

The Scottish Conservatives more than doubled their vote from last time round, making gains in every mainland ward and becoming the largest party in Perth and Kinross, Aberdeenshire, Dumfries and Galloway and the Borders. Nationwide they gained more than 550 council seats.

In what way are the press wrong to describe that as a 'resurgence'?

[pacoluna]

The Scottish Conservatives more than doubled their vote from last time round, making gains in every mainland ward and becoming the largest party in Perth and Kinross, Aberdeenshire, Dumfries and Galloway and the Borders. Nationwide they gained more than 550 council seats.

In what way are the press wrong to describe that as a 'resurgence'?
As I mentioned before it's not resurgence due to policies.Its a collective vote of unionists.

[Betty Boop]

I take it those voters who are swinging to Tory won't be supporting the SNP when they use their devolved powers to mitigate austerity driven policies...
Really? Public Services have been decimated under the SNP government, hundreds of millions of pounds have been slashed from councils since they came to power.

[G B Young]

I think we accept it, in fact I'd go as far to say we're happy about it.

I was referring specifically to the article somebody posted earlier which dissected the Ferguslie Park result in forensic detail in an attempt to somehow write off the fact the Tories won a seat there as some sort of anomaly.

My point is that, like it or not, a Conservative councillor was elected there under the same voting system every other councillor was elected by. No amount of seething statistical analysis can undo that democratic result. The fact the Tories also won seats in areas like Shettleston, Calton, Ravenscraig and Cowdenbeath may have raised eyebrows given the fact these were pretty much no-go areas for the Tories in years gone by, but win them they did. I also read this morning that the Tories' much improved performance in Glasgow included the election of the city's first black councillor, which can surely only be seen as a positive thing.

[G B Young]

As I mentioned before it's not resurgence due to policies.Its a collective vote of unionists.


I didn't know there were different categories of resurgence.

resurgence1.rising or tending to rise again; reviving; renascent. A renewed increase in interest or activity in a particular subject.

[pacoluna]

I didn't know there were different categories of resurgence.

resurgence1.rising or tending to rise again; reviving; renascent. A renewed increase in interest or activity in a particular subject.




The SNP are resurgent then as they seem to rise and rise again even after ten years in government.

[Just Alf]

The Scottish Conservatives more than doubled their vote from last time round, making gains in every mainland ward and becoming the largest party in Perth and Kinross, Aberdeenshire, Dumfries and Galloway and the Borders. Nationwide they gained more than 550 council seats.

In what way are the press wrong to describe that as a 'resurgence'?

The 'resurgence' was specifically mentioning the one particular ward and highlighting it to be much more than it actually is (most deprived area in Scotland voting Tory), as ever with the MSM though, once you get past the headline you find the actual story can be quite different.


Edit: re the other posts, this particular article doesn't take away from the Tory gains elsewhere it's simply pulling apart the fact that they didn't romp home in the poorest ward in the country.

[pacoluna]

It seems the anti-Catholic and British nationalist organisation the Orange Order (who have been known for homophobia and anti-immigration comments) have managed to sneak in a few of their members in the council elections through Labour and the Tories.

With the "Grand Master's" comments (the title sounds awfully like the Grand Wizard from the KKK) it also means that members of the OO could sit on committees that influence education policy and funding for Catholic schools.

Now no matter your view on religious schools, surely such a backwards, bigoted and hateful organisation should not be allowed to influence how Catholic schools are run? It's bad enough to have politics mixed with religion, yet to this extent it's dangerous.

Hopefully the SNP and Greens can stop such a clash. Heck, maybe they'll start putting pressure on the OO to reform or end their hateful marches.

[marinello59]

It seems the anti-Catholic and British nationalist organisation the Orange Order (who have been known for homophobia and anti-immigration comments) have managed to sneak in a few of their members in the council elections through Labour and the Tories.

With the "Grand Master's" comments (the title sounds awfully like the Grand Wizard from the KKK) it also means that members of the OO could sit on committees that influence education policy and funding for Catholic schools.

Now no matter your view on religious schools, surely such a backwards, bigoted and hateful organisation should not be allowed to influence how Catholic schools are run? It's bad enough to have politics mixed with religion, yet to this extent it's dangerous.

Hopefully the SNP and Greens can stop such a clash. Heck, maybe they'll start putting pressure on the OO to reform or end their hateful marches.

You have proof of that?

[Just Alf]

It seems the anti-Catholic and British nationalist organisation the Orange Order (who have been known for homophobia and anti-immigration comments) have managed to sneak in a few of their members in the council elections through Labour and the Tories.

With the "Grand Master's" comments (the title sounds awfully like the Grand Wizard from the KKK) it also means that members of the OO could sit on committees that influence education policy and funding for Catholic schools.

Now no matter your view on religious schools, surely such a backwards, bigoted and hateful organisation should not be allowed to influence how Catholic schools are run? It's bad enough to have politics mixed with religion, yet to this extent it's dangerous.

Hopefully the SNP and Greens can stop such a clash. Heck, maybe they'll start putting pressure on the OO to reform or end their hateful marches.

If its transparent as to who they are then in a way it reflects society and everyone gets some representation, on the other hand, if it's kept secret then it should be illegal and appropriate action taken by the Parties involved (maybe even the police?)

[Elephant Stone]

You have proof of that?


http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15270068.Orange_Order_elected_to_councils_as_Labou r_and_Tory_members/

[G B Young]

The 'resurgence' was specifically mentioning the one particular ward and highlighting it to be much more than it actually is (most deprived area in Scotland voting Tory), as ever with the MSM though, once you get past the headline you find the actual story can be quite different.


Edit: re the other posts, this particular article doesn't take away from the Tory gains elsewhere it's simply pulling apart the fact that they didn't romp home in the poorest ward in the country.

Fair enough, I thought you were referring to the wider picture. But even in Ferguslie Park they were starting from a pretty low bar (ie a pretty non existent support) so it's definitely newsworthy that a Tory actually got in there.

[Just Alf]

You have proof of that?

Saw some Twitter stuff last night congratulating each other on their successes, dunno if that's proof mind, it could just as easily be some bravado :dunno:

[Just Alf]

Fair enough, I thought you were referring to the wider picture. But even in Ferguslie Park they were starting from a pretty low bar (ie a pretty non existent support) so it's definitely newsworthy that a Tory actually got in there.

:aok:

[G B Young]

The SNP are resurgent then as they seem to rise and rise again even after ten years in government.

I'd probably describe their massive rise over the last decade or more as a 'surge' than a 'resurgence' because prior to that they didn't have any history of political success to replicate. It's questionable whether they continue to rise after 10 years in government though. The post-Brexit bounce they pinned their hopes on has not materialised and despite endless rhetoric about being dragged of Europe against our will the polls stubbornly refuse to shift in favour of independence.

As for the 'resurgence' of the Tories, it's surely no surprise that (in Scotland at least) it's based to a significant extent on support for the union? Nobody has played a bigger part than Nicola Sturgeon in ensuring that the constitution dominates virtually every aspect of political debate so the local elections were never going to be anything other than a barometer of support for independence. To argue that the Tories play the anti-independence card to mask a lack of policies doesn't really add up when set against the SNP's pretty lamentable record in government thus far. That, however, is airbrushed over by the endless insistence that only independence can lead Scotland to the land of milk and honey the SNP claim will be ours if we could all just set aside our opposition to breaking up the UK.

No question next month's General Election will see the vast majority of SNP MPs returned to Westminster but the combined popular vote of the pro union parties is still likely to be greater than that of those voting SNP and so the entrenched division of our country will simply continue with no end in sight.

[Betty Boop]

I'd probably describe their massive rise over the last decade or more as a 'surge' than a 'resurgence' because prior to that they didn't have any history of political success to replicate. It's questionable whether they continue to rise after 10 years in government though. The post-Brexit bounce they pinned their hopes on has not materialised and despite endless rhetoric about being dragged of Europe against our will the polls stubbornly refuse to shift in favour of independence.

As for the 'resurgence' of the Tories, it's surely no surprise that (in Scotland at least) it's based to a significant extent on support for the union? Nobody has played a bigger part than Nicola Sturgeon in ensuring that the constitution dominates virtually every aspect of political debate so the local elections were never going to be anything other than a barometer of support for independence. To argue that the Tories play the anti-independence card to mask a lack of policies doesn't really add up when set against the SNP's pretty lamentable record in government thus far. That, however, is airbrushed over by the endless insistence that only independence can lead Scotland to the land of milk and honey the SNP claim will be ours if we could all just set aside our opposition to breaking up the UK.

No question next month's General Election will see the vast majority of SNP MPs returned to Westminster but the combined popular vote of the pro union parties is still likely to be greater than that of those voting SNP and so the entrenched division of our country will simply continue with no end in sight.

:top marks

[marinello59]

Saw some Twitter stuff last night congratulating each other on their successes, dunno if that's proof mind, it could just as easily be some bravado :dunno:

No proof then. Unfortunately the bigots on both sides will lap that sort of stuff up.

[pacoluna]

I'd probably describe their massive rise over the last decade or more as a 'surge' than a 'resurgence' because prior to that they didn't have any history of political success to replicate. It's questionable whether they continue to rise after 10 years in government though. The post-Brexit bounce they pinned their hopes on has not materialised and despite endless rhetoric about being dragged of Europe against our will the polls stubbornly refuse to shift in favour of independence.

As for the 'resurgence' of the Tories, it's surely no surprise that (in Scotland at least) it's based to a significant extent on support for the union? Nobody has played a bigger part than Nicola Sturgeon in ensuring that the constitution dominates virtually every aspect of political debate so the local elections were never going to be anything other than a barometer of support for independence. To argue that the Tories play the anti-independence card to mask a lack of policies doesn't really add up when set against the SNP's pretty lamentable record in government thus far. That, however, is airbrushed over by the endless insistence that only independence can lead Scotland to the land of milk and honey the SNP claim will be ours if we could all just set aside our opposition to breaking up the UK.

No question next month's General Election will see the vast majority of SNP MPs returned to Westminster but the combined popular vote of the pro union parties is still likely to be greater than that of those voting SNP and so the entrenched division of our country will simply continue with no end in sight.

I take your point. With regards to upcoming election though 16/17 year olds wont be able to vote and not all labour voters are pro union.

[Just Alf]

No proof then. Unfortunately the bigots on both sides will lap that sort of stuff up.

noticed there's a post above mine with a link to the proof.

[marinello59]

noticed there's a post above mine with a link to the proof.
I can't read that whole article as I'm not a subscriber. I take it the Herald has more than the leader of a bunch of bigoted cranks claiming to have much more influence and power than they actually do.

[Just Alf]

I can't read that whole article as I'm not a subscriber. I take it the Herald has more than the leader of a bunch of bigoted cranks claiming to have much more influence and power than they actually do.

hmmm.... now that you put it THAT way ..... (they dont)

[McD]

It seems the anti-Catholic and British nationalist organisation the Orange Order (who have been known for homophobia and anti-immigration comments) have managed to sneak in a few of their members in the council elections through Labour and the Tories.

With the "Grand Master's" comments (the title sounds awfully like the Grand Wizard from the KKK) it also means that members of the OO could sit on committees that influence education policy and funding for Catholic schools.

Now no matter your view on religious schools, surely such a backwards, bigoted and hateful organisation should not be allowed to influence how Catholic schools are run? It's bad enough to have politics mixed with religion, yet to this extent it's dangerous.

Hopefully the SNP and Greens can stop such a clash. Heck, maybe they'll start putting pressure on the OO to reform or end their hateful marches.


why just catholic schools? Surely all schools should be protected from bigotry?

[ronaldo7]

Who have you heard about the £500m from?

Who is the "everyone" you speak of, that knows anything about health policy in Scotland?

Still waiting on the answers to these questions if you'd oblige, please. Southsideharp Bhoy.

[ronaldo7]

You have proof of that?

18557:greengrin

Ruth was the one who mentioned fratricidal conflict. I'd say this was language that we could do without. Other mentions in the MSM of the Ulterisation of Scotland is without doubt playing to the hard right Unionist vote.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-38825961

[ronaldo7]

They can say goodbye to health visitors who are of the main links between health inequality, who are very much needed in areas like shettlestone,niddrie etc

This is what they want us to do bud. Divide and conquer.

Never will we turn our back on the people who need us in their time of need.

[marinello59]

18557:greengrin

Ruth was the one who mentioned fratricidal conflict. I'd say this was language that we could do without. Other mentions in the MSM of the Ulterisation of Scotland is without doubt playing to the hard right Unionist vote.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-38825961

It was the SNP who first started dismissing all those who opposed them as Unionists. You may remember I said at the time how uncomfortable I felt with that term becoming common currency here. I know they are the Conservative and Unionist Party but I can't remember anybody describing them as Unionists during Thatcher's time in power. There was much more to hate them for than that.
Sturgeon has to take as much blame for this as Davidson. RD does seem to be totally losing the plot now though.

[ronaldo7]

It was the SNP who first started dismissing all those who opposed them as Unionists. You may remember I said at the time how uncomfortable I felt with that term becoming common currency here. I know they are the Conservative and Unionist Party but I can't remember anybody describing them as Unionists during Thatcher's time in power. There was much more to hate them for than that.
Sturgeon has to take as much blame for this as Davidson. RD does seem to be totally losing the plot now though.

Unionism has been alive and well, long before Thatcher and Sturgeon. You'll need to go back some time before you and I were born to get to the birth of Unionism.:wink:

[marinello59]

Unionism has been alive and well, long before Thatcher and Sturgeon. You'll need to go back some time before you and I were born to get to the birth of Unionism.:wink:

That's not my point though and I suspect you know that. The term was barely used in a political sense in Scotland until the referendum.

[ronaldo7]

That's not my point though and I suspect you know that. The term was barely used in a political sense in Scotland until the referendum.

I disagree.

Brit nats on the other hand, I'd agree with you.

Next, you'll be telling me the SNP were to blame for Labour and the Tories fielding Orange Order members as candidates.:wink:

[marinello59]

I disagree.

Brit nats on the other hand, I'd agree with you.

Next, you'll be telling me the SNP were to blame for Labour and the Tories fielding Orange Order members as candidates.:wink:

Labour and the Tories can field who they like, I will not be voting for either of them.
Do you have the names of these Orange Order candidates by the way? Apparently there are masses of them so somebody must be able to name quite a few of them.

[ronaldo7]

Labour and the Tories can field who they like, I will not be voting for either of them.
Do you have the names of these Orange Order candidates by the way? Apparently there are masses of them so somebody must be able to name quite a few of them.

Sorry, it's a secret.

You've been black balled.:greengrin

[G B Young]

Unionism has been alive and well, long before Thatcher and Sturgeon. You'll need to go back some time before you and I were born to get to the birth of Unionism.:wink:

Happy to bow to your knowledge of political history but in my experience marinello59 is correct to say that the term 'unionist' was not widely used in Scotland politics before the 2014 referendum. Prior to that I'd associated the term with Ulster and Rangers fans. It seemed to me there wasn't really a recognised wider term for those in Scotland who wished to remain part of the UK and 'unionist' seems to have been generally adopted (initially I suspect, in a derogatory way by nationalists). I can't say it's a term I'd previously have used to describe myself due to its 'Orange' connotations.

Incidentally, I haven't read back through this thread to see if you were able to clear up the seeming BBC error in reporting that the SNP lost seats in the council elections, but this from yesterday's Guardian might clarify things:

"When boundary changes are taken into account, the SNP lost seven seats compared to the 2012 council elections."

[ronaldo7]

Happy to bow to your knowledge of political history but in my experience marinello59 is correct to say that the term 'unionist' was not widely used in Scotland politics before the 2014 referendum. Prior to that I'd associated the term with Ulster and Rangers fans. It seemed to me there wasn't really a recognised wider term for those in Scotland who wished to remain part of the UK and 'unionist' seems to have been generally adopted (initially I suspect, in a derogatory way by nationalists). I can't say it's a term I'd previously have used to describe myself due to its 'Orange' connotations.

Incidentally, I haven't read back through this thread to see if you were able to clear up the seeming BBC error in reporting that the SNP lost seats in the council elections, but this from yesterday's Guardian might clarify things:

"When boundary changes are taken into account, the SNP lost seven seats compared to the 2012 council elections."

The Conservative and Unionist party in Scotland was called the Unionist party prior to merging with those in England and Wales around 1965.

They've been Unionists as long as I remember.:aok:

Thanks for the clarification on the BBC cock up. :aok:

[CropleyWasGod]

Happy to bow to your knowledge of political history but in my experience marinello59 is correct to say that the term 'unionist' was not widely used in Scotland politics before the 2014 referendum. Prior to that I'd associated the term with Ulster and Rangers fans. It seemed to me there wasn't really a recognised wider term for those in Scotland who wished to remain part of the UK and 'unionist' seems to have been generally adopted (initially I suspect, in a derogatory way by nationalists). I can't say it's a term I'd previously have used to describe myself due to its 'Orange' connotations.

Incidentally, I haven't read back through this thread to see if you were able to clear up the seeming BBC error in reporting that the SNP lost seats in the council elections, but this from yesterday's Guardian might clarify things:

"When boundary changes are taken into account, the SNP lost seven seats compared to the 2012 council elections."

I'd disagree.

The term is explicit in the title of the "Scottish Conservative & Unionist Party". It was (maybe still is) used in every party political broadcast, and on election literature.

http://www.scottishconservatives.com/

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I'd disagree.

The term is explicit in the title of the "Scottish Conservative & Unionist Party". It was (maybe still is) used in every party political broadcast, and on election literature.

http://www.scottishconservatives.com/

It may have always existed, but it didnt become commonly used until the referendum, generally along with other derogatory names like quisling, britnat etc

[Hibrandenburg]

It may have always existed, but it didnt become commonly used until the referendum, generally along with other derogatory names like quisling, britnat etc

So it's derogatory to call a party by the name they call themselves? C'mon.